*huggles* ^_^ That...
Getting off the Valentine’s Day rollercoaster
PDF Come Valentine’s Day, many unattached people, or people in less-than-fulfilling relationships, may be willing to accept less than they really deserve, just to have a few crumbs of “romance.” Sarah Strudwick writes that perhaps it’s time for a change. Read:
Happy pathological free Valentines Day, on WakingYouUp.wordpress.com.
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darwinsmom says:
Yup, he’s an introvert, judgemental, philosophical and intuitive… I got burned by his judgementalness once. Our romantic relationship ended over me expressing a fear it might go wrong. Only afterwards did I realize this had taken him by surprise. He then claimed to not love me. It took me months of battling between my mind and heart, where my heart won out in a dream to validate for myself that he actually did love me as deeply as I loved him. But what he feared was my apparent need of intimacy. It was this he realized he could not fill in the way he feared I needed it. And he realized it, when he wa suddenly confronted with my fears, while he thought everything was going well. He begged for forgivance for hurting me so much four months after breaking all contact with me. He realized he had dealt with me rash and harsh. Since then we’ve had the strangest and yet most satisfying and most beautiful form of cumminication… our emails read almost like dreams. We use image language. Our mails are full of symbolism, layer after layer. It’s almost as if we step into the mythological dreamworld. They’re all reflective of content in relation to events in our lives. In a way, we have become each other’s confessor. While we have never been physically intimate with each other after the break-up, and have seen each other only twice afterwards… our communication is the most intimate I know. We express and lay our souls to bear in those emails. And yet we write each other, often not knowing what is happening in each other’s life, and writing exactly that which the other needs to hear.
I have asked himin my first response to tell more about his depressions, how they creep up to him, and inquired whether he’s seeing a therapist. I hope to learn some more soon. I’ll probably won’t be getting a response though before a couple of weeks have passed.
That is indeed one mighty blind study…lol
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hens says:
Onesteprs,
Robot love sound’s pretty good to me, if it can swing a hammer and use a chainsaw..and if it has an off switch..
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Stargazer says:
LOL Stress mints!!! I took homeopathic remedies for a year or two for anxiety and depression. They really did help and with not bad effects.
And I repeat, SO glad no men contacted me yesterday on Valentines Day after reading this page of posts. No news is good news!
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hens says:
.
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darwinsmom says:
Sky,
I want to thank you for your suggestion. I think you are right about the asperger spectrum. This morning I suddenly remembered he had a bit of a strange hopping walk, a bit clumsy too. It wasn’t something overtly, but it had the aspect of it. And the link about “the scientist” it completely solved the issue he had with me when he broke up with me. I visited him, with such built up expectations, and needed affectionate reassurance. He spent his time doing stuff with me, even held me once in his sleep, and was affectionate when making love, but he wasn’t overtly affectionate otherwise, and it made me incredibly insecure. The moment I expressed my fears, he drew back. Later I did realize he was actually surprised when I confessed my fears. I always thought it was because he had commitment fear, but you gave me the insight that he truly felt there wasn’t anything wrong, until he learned I was becoming insecure. He blamed me for that, called me needy. I actually do associate love with lots of affection, from a positive experience: my parents were always affectionate to each other and towards me… hugging, kissing… and I have a high need in feeling able to do that with the person I love, not just receiving it. I’m a hugger: I hug and kiss my friends. Around him I became self conscious and did not feel as free and confident to be that affectionate.
In a way, it was a big misunderstanding from both sides on physical communication. Kinda really stupid, knowing that we were and always have been such an intellectual match.
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Truthspeak says:
Ii am angry, today – absolutely angry, and I’m not managing this very well.
I am angry because I trusted the worm. I am angry because the worm set me up to take my money as his own, and to use me as a cloak of respectability to hide his deviances. I am angry because I am cut adrift and have no place to call “home” for the first time in my life. I am angry because he is a rat-shit-bastard that appears to be getting away with everything that he’s done over the course of our association. I am angry because I am utterly destitute and finding employment with my condition.
GRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!! Just a bad day, today.
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Tin-angel says:
Hello all, this is my first post, although I have been reading from this site for some time. I have to thank you all on here. Without reading about your experiences I would have thought I was truly mad… So many similarities that made me realise I was not alone and I could survive. The spaths are like the character in ‘Dorien Gray’ – charming and lovely initially, but behind ‘the mask’ inside, a vile monster.
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darwinsmom says:
It’s rough to feel such rage against a person. I kinda went with it, and imagined him in front of me and me throwing all my china at him. It helped. You have every right to be angry over all he stole from you, all he destroyed while going his evil merry way.
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just-us-5 says:
Truth-I understand your anger. I am about in the same situation. hanging on by a thread. Amazing, all I put into building my life and he can and does take it away with a snap of a finger without blinking. It so anger me too that he has no consequences. He never will either because nothing effects him, nothing is a consequence to him. I witness it with his father who is old. His father is an empty pathetic old man, yet he walks around head held high so content with himself. His father stole his and his mother’s sole, and absolutely loves himself. Ughhh
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DUPED NO MORE! says:
Welcome to LF Tin-angel. Thanks too for your kind words.
LF has helped me tremendously. It explains the unexplainable…I agree with your Dorien Gray statement: charming, lovely, intelligent: all part of the spath/ppath ingrained ‘manipulating’ side. You ARE NOT ALONE Tin-Angel. You are with people, here, who truly DO “GET IT”.
Thanks for posting and for being here. You are important to our ‘flock’, so, please, do stick around and read and search here, as much as you possibly can, because I know “I” have found A LOT of healing in this place: ‘the healing place’…
Dupey
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Ox Drover says:
Welcome Tin Angel,
And you are completely right, the Portrait of Dorian Gray is a perfect example of a psychopath’s mind set…they have no conscience, and so whatever they want to do is “right.”
I’m glad you are reading because reading and learning and educating ourselves is the only way we can protect ourselves in the future from being attacked again, and to heal ourselves from the wounds from the last attack.
KNOWLEDGE IS POWER, and by educating ourselves we can find that power, the power to heal and secure from attack.
God bless, and again, welcome to LoveFraud.
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New Beginning says:
I don’t understand the association of intuitive introverts in regards to psychopathy as stated in an earlier post. I am an intuitive introvert (ISFJ) and we’re known for our kindness.
Please don’t paint introversion as undesireable characteristic associated with psychopathy. I can assure you it is not related to psychopathy in any way……any more than naturally extroverted people are associated with psycopathy. Introverts live an internally rich and happy world. Psychopaths cannot live that way because they are empty and need people to manipulate to alleviate the boredom. Boredom isn’t typically something introverts regularly face. Also, P’s strive to be the center of attention, introverts strive NOT to be the center of attention. There is NO correlation.
Quoted from an ISFJ personality profile:
“As an ISFJ, your primary mode of living is focused internally, where you takes things in via your five senses in a literal, concrete fashion. Your secondary mode is external, where you deal with things according to how you feel about them, or how they fit into your personal value system.
ISFJs live in a world that is concrete and kind. They are truly warm and kind-hearted, and want to believe the best of people. They value harmony and cooperation, and are likely to be very sensitive to other people’s feelings. People value the ISFJ for their consideration and awareness, and their ability to bring out the best in others by their firm desire to believe the best.
ISFJs have a rich inner world that is not usually obvious to observers. They constantly take in information about people and situations that is personally important to them, and store it away. This tremendous store of information is usually startlingly accurate, because the ISFJ has an exceptional memory about things that are important to their value systems. It would not be uncommon for the ISFJ to remember a particular facial expression or conversation in precise detail years after the event occured, if the situation made an impression on the ISFJ.
ISFJs have a very clear idea of the way things should be, which they strive to attain. They value security and kindness, and respect traditions and laws. They tend to believe that existing systems are there because they work. Therefore, they’re not likely to buy into doing things in a new way, unless they’re shown in a concrete way why its better than the established method. “
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darwinsmom says:
New Beginning, intuitive introverts was about an ex of mine who is NOT a spath at all. And he had a very bad year. I hadn’t heard from him for over a year… he feels so rejected and a loser at the moment, recognizing he got carried away with his judging, and he knows what happened in my life, and he feared that I might regard him as a “parasite” as well. First thing I replied was that I would never view him as a parasite, because I know he has deep feelings, including shame and guilt.
Sky, pointed something out about him possibly being the scientist profile.
That is all…
Only issue for me, is that he’s my big love, and I lost him. I actually know he loves me as much as I love him, but we’ve never been able to reconcile, both afraid that he might hurt me again. A part of me wishes we could. He chose to “tend our fire” (that is contact me again and reach out) on Valentine’s Day. So, in a way it does mean a lure to the roller coaster for me.
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skylar says:
Darwinsmom,
I don’t know if he is a spath or not. He may actually be wonderful in every way except his ability to express his love for you.
I can completely relate to your loving someone who is intellectually compatible. It’s sad when that person is not emotionally compatible. Why do we always have to make compromises and sacrifice one or the other? Can we sacrifice the part of ourselves that needs affection so that another part is happy? Only way to find out is to jump in with your eyes wide open, I guess.
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New Beginning says:
Darwinsmom, thank you for the clarification.
Being an introvert myself, I am often misunderstood by people in my life because there are times they feel “excluded”. Not sure if applies to your situation but these people are not excluded…..quite to the contrary, because they mean the world to me. It’s just that I require extra space and time to myself to recharge and others take it personally, but it really has nothing at all to do with them as people or what they mean to me.
There is an excellent book titled “The Introvert Advantage: How to Thrive in an Extrovert World” which provides a great deal of information for both extroverts and introverts alike as well as insight into relationships where one is an extrovert and the other an introvert. Introverts are like cats, extroverts are like dogs. One requires “space” to be alone, the other is always in the midst of the action.
I hope you and the person you care so deeply for will eventually find a way around the wall that currently seperates you.
Be well.
~New
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darwinsmom says:
I was 26-27 when I met him, the second boyfriend, third man I ever shared a bed with. What the hell did I know of the different ways people could express their affections? I only knew the one I was raised in: hugging, cuddling, kissing. And by the third day of sharing space and time with him, I became immensely insecure after jumping a plane to see him, and I showed it, because he didn’t physically communicate in that way as much or as often as I needed it. Confronted with that need of mine, he backed out. One of those principled things stood in the way: I had a fever blister, and he didn’t want to get infected, so he wouldn’t kiss me on the mouth anymore. He was young too, though. He wasn’t at an intimacy stage where he could handle seeing me in the bathroom for example, doing what every human being needs to do. Anyway, too much expectations and it blew up in our faces. I pushed him too over emal, in the 2 months that followed, until he roared at me and broke all contact.
3 months later I was in the worst stage of my reactive depression, being pre-suicidal, not knowing what to believe (had I been the fool to believe he could ever love me, or did he love me but had he chickened out?). It just wouln’t stop hurting. Every day I got up, it felt like I was gutted with a hunter’s knife and slowly bleeding to death. This emotional pain was so physical, it would even wake me up. At my darkest hour I cried for someone to help me at the ceiling. I had a vision of my guardian. Picked me up like a little baby in his lap, and rockabied me as I cried my heart out. Explained me why it had happened: he was put on my path to find inspiration for my purpose in life (teaching, tourleading, working with people), but not for keeps. Nor had they expected such a response of mine (going on lifestrike). So, he my guardian had come to make up to me. He gave me my first kundalini experience (and I only learned to put a name on the experience days later). Within 2 weeks I had climbed out of my depression, and Daniel was there always as a soothing presence. On the first group meditations I had (several months later), people noticed him and described him as I saw him (looks like a dandy) who didn’t even know about him.
By late December I had a dream about this love and relationship. I landed with a plane on an airport. In the patio garden in between the halls I saw two Middle Eastern women (sisters) “guarding” a toddler in a push-cart, a man in a wall street suit and trenchcoat walked by and strolled off with the toddler, with the blessing of those 2 “guardians”. That’s when I realized the toddler was me, and now I was walking next to this man and noticed it was this man I loved. But he only picked me up to bid me farewell at the next plane take-off. This take-off hall was old and shabby though… it was in that 70s style without restoration. The plane I was supposed to take was going to leave, and I saw all these people in work clothes and workcases go down into the worn-down depressing looking tunnel that woudl lead to the plane. And they looked as depressed as the tunnel was. He was about to kiss me goodbye, when I was struck by blindness (literally)… I even opened my eyes physically in order to see and nothing. And as he kissed me, a strong impulse arose in me… I didn’t want to take that depressing tunnel, I didn’t want to say goodbye. All of a sudden I could see again, and as he hugged me, I could see the rest of the hallway behind him: it lead straight to the tarmak, and had polished, sparkling, new white tiles. That part of the hallway was so sunny, light and sparkly. And it was EMPTY. Everybody was doing what they were supposed to do: getting over the love that went wrong with a broken heart into a depressing dark tunnel. But there lay this wide, shining road right in front of us, going straight to the tarmak, and nobody took it. I pushed him ahead of me, through that hallway, until we reached the tarmak’s garage gate with a door inside. He blocked us from going outside there. And then we fell on the floor together in a hug. I laughed and told him: what the hell are you wearing a tie for? He laughed along. He actually looked scrawny and had a beard, looking a bit unkept. I commented on the beard too jokingly.
I woke up then, with the thought I’d hear from somebody very important to me within a couple of days. I understood that the way I dealt emotionally with the separation was my choice: I could choose to expell my feelings for him by taking the depressive road, or I could follow my heart and choose unconditional love. I chose the latter, obviously, and it would make me a happier human being irregardless.
3 days later I received a Christmass email from him. It was sent to many people, and read like a poem. What nobody else would know though, was that the poetic proze used imagery of actual things we did together, places we visited. I replied in similar poetic proze manner, but using the image of a soaring eagle whose attention is caught, and almost plummeting out of the sky in sheer surprise by the message. Then the bird (me) tried to put the ruffled feathers back in order, and greeted him. The next response was personal and he begged forgivance for having caused so much pain.
We were at least friends again after that. He visited Europe by the next fall. He landed from the US in Amsterdam, only a 2 hour train ride away from my city. Instead of going to Belgium he took a train and boat to Denmark (chickened out imo). Then he invited me to travel together in Poland, but I was back at work, only for 9 days already (after a year of absence). So, I couldn’t do that. But we had a weekend in London together, just before his flight back to the US, early December. I needed to see him. It was 1.5 year after the break-up and so far I couldn’t be intimate with a man in any way. I expected I would see the things that would make me understand why we were ‘incompatable’, that I would start to gain the ‘insight’ of, ‘I’m over him.’ I saw the opposite: I saw all the things that had made me choose to love him unconditionally anyway. As soon as we stepped into the elevator to our room, after not having seen each other for such a long time, we talked as if it had been yesterday since we last saw each other. Though we shared a bed, nothing physical happened. He didn’t want to cross that boundary. He had met a woman just before going to Europe, and he had decided to be exclusive to her. I also think that he acknowledged that anything physical between us was not just a fling. The weekend was great though! And we both commented over the fact that it couldn’t be that much time between the last time we saw each other. He was even convinced it was only half a year. But I returned partly shocked. I loved him as much as I ever had done before. I would never move beyond him I feared.
By the end of December I intended to travel to some warm country to get away from winter. Only cheap flights in my budget were to ski resorts and San Diego (his town). So, not a month later I was in San Diego. I had intended to break all contact, and promised myself not to contact him while I was in town. I was going to rent a car and drive down Baja California and camp there. Little problem after problem occurred and I seemed unable to get out of town. I was so fed up with the stalling, that I eventually wondered: perhaps I’m stuck here, because I’m supposed to see him. So, I called his mom, who gave me his number and he met me. I told him of my discovery because of that weekend in London. He was sympathetic, but adament of not being in love with me. It was that little push I had needed to take the first step beyond him. The next day, all the little itty bitty issues that had kept me in Sna Diego were solved and I had my road-holiday in Baja, as well as the first time I had an affair with another man: garden architect from San Francisco. However, this time he was the one who fell head over heals, and I felt like I couldn’t give what he wanted. It was an experience of the other side of the other pov. When I was back in San Diego, I called my ex, just for a friendly conversation. It had been going bad with the gf before I left, but now he was moving in with her. Didn’t last though.
We kept mailing in our specific symbolical way for years. It’s always been an uncanny intutive mail relation. We wouldn’t know what was going on in each other’s lives, but somehow always end up saying exactly that what the other needed to hear.
In 2006 we agreed to meet in Mexico, during my Christmass holidays. He was working there as tourleader, and would have some off-time in between trips. However, I had promised myself not to plan all of my two weeks into seeing him. I was gong to visit my Mexican sisters (two women I lived with for a month when I volunteered at a museum to train my Spanish), possibly pass through San Cristobal to meet a Belgian friend there, before heading down to the Riviera Maya. A week before I left though, he picked up hig bags and went back to San Diego: he had been going through a depression and needed his family… and once again I think he chickened out. I had a blast of a holiday anyhow though.
I never tried to meet him anymore, and never gave him a chance anymore to bring it up. Aside from that, at least one of us was in a relationship in the last years: either him or me. And he referred to me as his “sister” when I chatted with him while I was with the spath. Not totally, because he admits to the romantic and sexual attraction as well. But I guess it’s safer to consider ourselves soulbrother and soulsister.
So, I don’t jump anymore or take initiative in that romantic direction anymore… We might both profess unconditional love, we might feel it, but it’s all airy, not grounded. And it’s not up to me to ground it. I tried a few times in the past ten years, and he chickened out at the last moment each time again. It’s his wall, his shield. It’s his to take down. And I doubt he ever will.
Still glad to have heard of him again… I was really worried, and obvously for good reasons.
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abbri says:
Jumping in a couple of days late, but Valentine’s Day was also the anniversary of the day the spath and I met. This is our first one in 6 years apart, and it was very difficult for me, more so than I even thought it would be. I hope by Valentine’s Day 2013 I’ll be in a place where I can celebrate that we’re not together anymore! My head knows it; my heart has yet to follow.
It’s strange how it’s taking me SOOOO much longer to get over a relationship that was alternately miserable and wonderful than it’s EVER taken me to get over the relationships that were mostly wonderful.
Doesn’t help that we live nearby and at least a few times a week I drive by him, run into him at the store (where he smiles at me like he hasn’t just almost destroyed me andI ignore him), or run into one of his friends, etc. There are constant reminders of the good times everywhere I look, and far fewer reminders of the bad times except inside my head (and my reduced living conditions as a result of him!).
I know he’s also in a new relationship (all his relationships begin less than a month, usually MUCH less, after the previous one ended). Ours began only a few days after his previous girlfriend of 3 years moved out. At the time I thought it was because we were meant for each other! lol
So every time I leave the house I’m filled with anxiety that I’ll run into them together. It makes no sense; I should feel sorry for her I know, but still the thought of it kills me. I’ve haven’t seen them together yet, but I’m sure I will.
All this despite the fact that I’m in therapy with a nurse practitioner who’s very familiar with victims of sociopaths, and I STILL can’t let go. It’s the hardest thing I’ve ever done.
Two months ago, right after Christmas, a woman who I recently learned had been seeing my spath off and on during our many breaks (always initiated by me because of his lies, but I always took him back later) hung herself. She was the mother of 4, including 6-year old twins. Her 19-year old found her.
She was a nice woman; I always liked her. Filled with emotional issues, bipolar as well, but good-hearted and well-liked nonetheless. Turns out the night before it happened she went over to his house and saw me there with he and his kids.
She had also attempted suicide other times, and I recently learned that at least one of them was related to my spath.
A few days after her death I realized the role he played in her suicide (telling her he loved her, lying to her about his relationship with me, leading her on, etc., knowing how fragile she was) and broke it off for good. But instead of feeling better (or at least the same) each day, it gets worse each day.
And he’s all over town with his new victim, and I’m afraid to leave the house because of it. And most people in our fairly small town don’t even know he was seeing her, so he’s gotten away with that as well (a typical sociopath, he’s VERY charming and gets away with SO much, everybody loves him!). In fact, he was the second person this woman’s daughter called after finding her mother (the police were the first!). She even called him before she called her own father!
In fact, she learned afterwards from her friends that he and I had been together for 6 years, and her mother was just a side dalliance, so now she dislikes ME as if it was my fault (I didn’t know at the time of her death they even knew each other, let alone had slept together) and has turned her peer group against my daughter, while he still walks on water in her opinion! So I’m the pariah and spath is still adored. This is mostly what keeps me awake at night crying.
This bothers me more than anything, that he continually fools so many people, many of them people he’s turned against me with his lies. I can MAYBE someday forgive all the money he owes me, the jobs I’ve lost because of him, all the pain he’s caused my kids and me. But I JUST CAN’T STAND that he keeps getting away with it. Because the harm he causes isn’t illegal (mostly), just immoral, and he can talk his way out of anything, so I’m left a shell of the woman I was 6 years ago and he’s having a great time as usual.
My bitterness towards that is what I’m afraid I may never lose.
Wow, didn’t mean for this to be so long–just needed a little post-Valentine’s venting!
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Louise says:
abbri:
That poor woman committed suicide because of him? How sad is that??? I know she had other issues, but geez and she left behind four children including six year old twins…what a tragedy…a pity! Does anyone care?? Sounds especially that the spath does not! This just infuriates me that they can go around literally destroying lives and they just keep going on with their lives.
Thank God you broke it off for good when you realized her demise was because of him. So sad. How sad that woman’s own daughter still thinks he is so great. Does she know why her mom died???
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darwinsmom says:
what a horrible story, abbri. How awful. And that the daughter takes it out on your daughter shows more about the daughter. Sorry though, your daughter is having to take the brunt of it.
You are well rid of him. And if you want to take revenge on him: work on your healing so that you enjoy life again, especially without him.
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abbri says:
Louise–
The town was shaken–she was well-liked and grew up here, as did spath (Chris), unlike me (although my kids all grew up here). But she had other issues–acrimonious divorce, legal and financial issues–that most believe were too much for her. Neither I nor the few who also understand the truth about what happened feel willing or able to expose it since it would only cause more hurt to the family. I imagine in time people will figure things out, but until then it’s hard…
Darwinsmom–
I don’t blame the daughter; she’s 19 and Chris is funny, charming, and manipulative. She hasn’t been around the block even once, let alone as much as I have! He fooled me, and I was 46 when we met (he’s 9 years younger). So she’s only acting on what he’s told her which, of course, are all lies.
Weirdly, beginning a week after her death, her other daughter, who’s 16, my daughter, and Chris’ daughter all took driver’s ed together. They would hang out during their breaks. They all seemed to get along, but such a strange situation.
Yeah, it’s the revenge thing I can’t overcome yet. But your advice is sound and I will work on it, thank you!
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darwinsmom says:
abbri, it truly is the best revenge… spaths want to destroy us… what better revenge when we not only survived them, but also heal and find a fulfilling life again.
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New Beginning says:
Darwinsmom, thank you so much for sharing your story. Our paths can be quite bumpy and I expect that he couldn’t even verbalize what created “the wall”.
I feel for you as I know all too well the gut-wrenching physical pain. It’s only in the past couple of years that I realized my husband of 30 years was a P. Things seems fine but now I know I looked past many things. I continue to deal with that loss as family is everything to me and I lalso ost my Mom only a short time after the divorce was finalized. I know the feeling of being pre-suicidal…..it’s quite an ugly place to be. So glad you found your way out of that with the help of your guide. I’ve started attending a spiritual (non-denominational) group that has raised energy sessions which helps facilitate a connection to the spiritual side of things. It is helping me to cope. I know my life path had to be adjusted but I am having difficulty accepting it. Hopefully I will have an awakening like you experienced.
Take care and I’m happy you had a communication that let you know he is ok……and that you still hold a place in his heart.
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darwinsmom says:
In a way, the spath was not as painful… The relationshit with the spath damaged my functioning and handling of stress, but I was over the emotional loss fast… because I had endured much more pain over losing the other a decade ago. And at least several times the other has proven himself to be of valid support and actual importance and inspiration. He rejected me once, but he also helped to rebuild myself in a supportive manner after I did the first part and we became friends again. While, he seems forever separated from me, he’s worthy of love and is real. The spath, who started out to be so physically affectionate to me was never real at all, and deserves nada.
Well, he’s still alive, but not so ok really. He’s presuicidal himself I think, talking about crying and eating bitter poisonous fruit with a death wish. But he’s reaching out for spiritual help. I am grateful he exists, and still exists. I hope he’ll do what needs to be done to keep existing.
Also, the spath NEVER knew about this man in my past and what a great impact he had in it. He NEVER knew that he still had a place in my heart, or that I was very occasionally still in contact with him, let alone what type of contact we have had the past ten years. Originally I didn’t tell him, because I find it unfair to a new man in my life to suddenly have someone of almost spiritual proportions in my heart. I don’t mind it that I don’t always feel as strongly or as passionate for a new man in my life. It’s of no consequence for me. Eventually, I did want to tell, but he was not interested in listening even… before I could tell, he was already distracting me and going about his stuff. I think the spath supposed he knew me well enough and assumed he was the one I was totally head over heels about. He made a mistake there. In a way, this past love, salvaged me from being hurt deeply on an emotional level. He hurt me in other ways, and I was trauma bonded for sure, and addicted. But when he discarded me, I still had my old love for another in my heart as a memory, AND it was easy to compare the trauma-bonded-love with my old, unconditional love. It was very easy then to realize that what I had felt mostly for the spath was addiction and trauma-bonding.
Had the spath known about this old love and how deep it ran and still runs through my soul, he might have made even worse attempts to wow me over in the lovebombing phase.
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skylar says:
Darwinsmom,
your story is touching, thanks for sharing it. It brought to mind how difficult it can be to every really empathize with another. We project our own way of being and thinking onto others in order to understand them, but that can never be completely accurate because each of us has a unique perspective.
When you meet a spath and a borderline, I’ve read that they can have very similar characteristics. Same behaviors and even the same history. But the difference is in their motivations. Borderlines really want to be loved while spaths have suppressed that far more deeply and disdain those who love them. (though they still want to be loved – they hate you for it).
It’s virtually impossible for anyone to tell the difference because spaths lie and can pretend to be borderline, if they are so inclined.
To be clear, this is just an example, I’m not saying your friend is either borderline or spath or anything else. Just saying that motivations for behavior are so complex that it can be very difficult to judge the root cause.
I think you did the right thing by giving him his freedom. We can’t force anyone to be who we want. We can only decide for ourselves what we value in ourselves. I hope your friend is going to be ok.
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skylar says:
Abbri,
thank God that you are ok and got away from that spath.
They will often prey on the strong because we have more for them to leech off of, but when they find a person with lots of emotional problems, they can’t resist draining them to death.
My spath caused one gf to commit suicide and I was supposed to be next. He told everyone that I was suicidal and even called the suicide prevention line and sent the cops to my parents’ house by telling them that I was going to kill myself, after I had left him.
The truth is that he was poisoning me for over 20 years and he had it planned to “suicide me” but I got away.
Spaths love suicide and I can tell you with certainty that when you see a suicide, you should look for a spath nearby.
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hens says:
.
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Stargazer says:
Darwinsmom, I had a boyfriend once like the one you described your ex (the scientist) to be. He is the reason I moved to Colorado. We started out as good friends for a year or two, and it wasn’t until I was visiting with him for a few weeks that we took our friendship to the next level. He was equally unaffectionate, and I found myself always being insecure with him. After a while, I felt enough emotional disconnect from him that I began dating someone else. The ex and I, however, always stayed friends, and we are still friends. There will always be an emotional wall there where we just don’t connect. I think he has the aspbergers-like scientific personality. But I accept him for who he is. I have gone through many bf’s over the years, and he’s had two gfs, even having a child with one of them who turned out to have a similar personality type to him (and because of this, be a special needs child). His last gf was, by his admission, the “love of his life”. They were truly happy for a while, but then she eventually grew weary of his rigid ways and left. I doubt he will ever marry – he is 61.
We have kept in touch over the years because our lives intersect in various ways. For instance, he is the “daddy” of my cat who just died. So she was like our “kid”. Also, he owns rental properties and occasionally pays me well to do interior painting for him. We have remodeled homes together and just had general business connections.
I have never forgotten that he paid my room and board many years ago and “took care of me” back when we were dating. So I offer to help him out whenever I can. I always watch my feelings when I talk to him and notice that same feeling of being abandoned because of his emotional disconnect from me. However, I have my own abandonment issues to deal with, so I don’t get angry with him anymore.
Right now, he is suffering immensely. His expensive health insurance didn’t cover his last hip replacement, so he had to borrow the money. His rental properties have all lost so much value he can’t sell. And with his bad hip, he can’t do the remodel work the way he used to. He is looking at being homeless so he can rent out his home to survive. It’s very sad to watch someone who’s been working his whole life have to go through this.
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darwinsmom says:
Star, thank you for sharing your story. It sounds familiar, yes.
Sky, I am stuck on the same enigma: why do we need to sacrifice one need for another?
I am on some rollercoaster at the moment somehow: ever since I received that mail, though it was a cry of help by him, my soul has been singing and humming. I’ve been weeping tears a few times (and haven’t cried since August) since Wednesday night. But not out of sadness (at first), but almost because of beauty that is rather indescribable. At the very least it made me highly emotional at the moment and therefore vulnerable.
A lot of stuff has been going through my mind the past days: So, I now understand that my big love did not have the need to be so physically affectionate, and that until recently I equated love with physical affection, because that’s my own nature and the model I was raised with. I understand how it made me insecure, where perhaps I didn’t need to be insecure at all.
I had my best friend on the phone last night and told him about my big love contacting me again, telling what had occurred to him the past year, but also the new insights.
And then he said: well now you know that if someone makes you insecure that they are not the one, that they’re incompatible with you. And actually, that was what I thought too the past few months, following stargazer’s story about the neighbour and reflecting about other men that used to make me insecure… but these insights actually make me think the opposite at least on some men, and make me not be so sure anymore that my best friend is right.
I realize that at the time my big love and I could not have worked out, because I lacked the understanding that he did not need to be as constantly physically affectionate towards me. My insecurity did not come from him behaving wronly or not enough… my insecurity came from not knowing, from inexperience. I do think that’s something totally different.
Why is it so important to me? Because the ex-spath did not make me insecure at all. Actually, there wasn’t ever anyone who made me so sure that he loved me. And we were often physically affectionate. I felt completely at ease in showing my affections, and he even invited me to hug him, cuddle him. He had a touching gift. As soon as he touched me, laid his arm around my waist, I felt comletely at ease. And he knew literally out of my mouth that was what reassured me and what I liked. So, he was physically my match… except for the fact that it was all a lie. I only found out too late that he was cheating on me or trying to keep past doors open to his former ex-es at the same time he was reassuring me in this physical affectionate manner.
So, here I am… with one man in my past who actually loved and cared for me, and was being his true self around me… And it made me insecure, because I didn’t know his type of affection communication. And on the other hand with another man in my recent past who fulfilled all those ideas of ideal physically affectionate communication, who made feel so sure and secure about it, and it was all a lie.
And I’m wondering, would it be truly that incompatable? Once two people understand their manner of communicating affection, no matter how different, does that make people by definition incomatible.
If so, then love seems a total hopeless case for me. I won’t be attracted to men who are extraverts less than me, nor will they be attracted to me. I have to stay away from men who are more extraverted than myself, because chances are they are disorderly extraverted, so that leaves introverts who will communicate bodily affection differently than myself.
I now think that the other’s type of physical affectionate communication does not have to be the same as mine, as long as I can feel free to express my affections my way.
I also think there’s a difference between feelings of insecurity, and feelings of being unsettled or dread. While I felt comletely at ease with the spath, certainly the first year, I was worried about the red flags I didn’t know the meaning of yet. I didn’t feel at ease with the big love, but I felt no dread that there might be something wrong with him or that he was dangerous.
Oh, gosh, what a mess…
And thinking of the past, and having my feelings for the big love be so utmost in my mind the past few days, made me vulnerable and weepy over another issue. One of my vulnerabilities for the spath was my child-wish. From my 19 until my 22 I had severe painful menstruation. The pain would wake me up at times, and I was dazed by codeine painkillers for 5 days, monthly. It was as if someone stuck a dagger into my side stomach and was slowly twisting it 5 days in a row. Echo didn’t show a thing, so I only got prescribed heavier painkillers. But after 3 years I thought this could not go on any longer, unless I was willing to sacrifice my kidneys in the long run. I got a new gynaecologist and she agreed to do a laparascopy, both of us suspecting I might have endomytriosis. We were right. But she had never seen it as severe with someone as young as myself then. I had level 3 endomytriosis. For those who don’t know this condition: it means that you have cells outside of the uterus that bleed along in your body during menstruation. It was on the outside wall of my intestines, my left abdomen had a lot of endomytriosis, scar tissue and blood cloths. My left tube was wound around a large blood cloth, thick and had been moved. She tested it by sending harmless coloured fluids up the tubes, but nothing could pass through the left tube, and even if it did, no egg from the left ovary could even reach the tube because it was displaced. She had to bind the left tube off to avoid the risk of ectopic pregnancy. Meanwhile, because of the scar tissue all of my uterus was pulled to the left side, and the right tube was stretched out like a rubber band. Had I waited longer than then to have the laparoscopy it might have snapped. So, she managed to save at least the right tube, saying that I could still get normally pregnant at the right side. It all depends on which ovary releases an egg that month. But she also warned me not to wait until I was 35 to start having a child.
BTW level 4 endomytriosis means it has infested the ovaries itself, and thereby making a woman infertile, because the ovaries will be destroyed.
At the time I was in a relationship that lasted 2.5 years more. But we were both studying and sensible, and didn’t want to get preggers without both having work. Then we broke up (which is not a bad thing, because he was incompatable with me in the long run). 2 years later there was my big love. But after him, not until I was 35 did I have a long term relationship anymore. I could have gotten preggers by myself before that, but I found it irresponsible to bring a child in this world when my career was not yet stable enough, and could not be sure whether I’d have the same amount of teaching hours, income, or same school the next yeear.
At 35 I started to feel ready and was contemplating to go to a hospital and get pregnant via insemination, with my best friend (who’s gay but would love to be a father) as donor and the possibility to give a child not just a mother, but also a father… albeit parents who wouldn’t be living together. And it would have been exactly what I would have done, had I not met the spath in Nicaragua. I allowed “nature” to decide whether I’d get pregnant with him or not. In the 6 months we were actually physically together, it never happened though. In hindishgt, that’s not a bad thing… and yet, now I’ll be 38 in 2 weeks, I’m studying again for years to come, I have even less of a secure job position than in the past. And I doubt I’ll be involved with anyone the coming years. And though I wish a child, I cannot do it under such unstable circumstances. It is irresponsible imo. I’m crying as I write to think that I’ll probably be past 40 when it’s stable enough again, and by then I might already be in menopauze. It breaks my heart to consider the reality that I may never have a child at all. I even voiced this to my mother, the idea that perhaps it is not meant to be fore me. And yet it seems so unfair: I have so much love inside of me, and I know I would be a good well grounded mother, after the example of my own. And time just slipped by, while I was already half infertile to begin with.
I think though that I should get a total check-up by a gynaecologogist and perhaps save some eggs for the freezer. I think I should do this this year.
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Stargazer says:
Darwinsmom,
I cannot imagine what it’s like to want children and not be able to have them. I never wanted children, so that’s never been an issue for me. You have some tough choices to make, and I don’t envy you. I don’t know how easy it is to adopt children where you are, but there are SO many children in the world who need good homes.
Have you ever read The Five Love Languages? I know my main love language is physical touch. It’s how I show love and how I like to receive it, though I also appreciate quality time, words of encouragement, acts of service, and gift giving. The Canadian guy from Costa Rica also had touch as his main love language. That is why our connection was so incredible. He gave me exactly what I needed and what I never really got from any other man. It was heaven on earth while it lasted. Partners can learn to express love in each other’s love languages instead of splitting up, if they are willing to change. But in my experience, people who are not touchy feely don’t just ‘become’ touchy feely. You can love someone, and they can even be your soulmate. But if you are not compatible, it just will not work.
Personally, I think you should get everything you want, and you shouldn’t have to settle. 38 seems so young to me, and from my perspective, you still have many years ahead of you to find someone compatible. I know I could not be with someone who was not physically affectionate. No, my neighbor is not the physically affectionate type either, but we never really “dated” so who knows what he would be like with someone he’s really into. I just know I couldn’t be with someone who does not enjoy giving and receiving touch even if he is wonderful in every other way.
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skylar says:
Darwinsmom,
my exspath was very touchy affectionate at the beginning. He had all the “moves” down, he knew how normal people express affection. That’s what made it so difficult in the end to accept that he never actually EXISTED.
At the end, when he was playing the last con pretending that Homeland security was after him, we were talking and I put my arms around him. We were face to face and I said, “I know we hate each other sometimes, but we really make a great team.” It had been months since the last time we hugged like that. I felt very close to him. He responded, “Honey, I don’t hate you, I LOOOOVVE you!”
Then a couple of days later, I figured it all out. I couldn’t help thinking (to my utter bewilderment) of that moment and how convincingly he said it, that I believed it.
Yet, in retrospect, his response was off topic, because my comment was not about love or hate, it was just me saying that we make a great team despite our differences. HE DIDN’T GET THAT. The word HATE was what he focused on and his response was to immediately dispel any doubts about his “love” for me. because that’s what spaths do during a con. They have to keep the true believer, believing they are loved because then, everything else just naturally follows.
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Stargazer says:
Yeah, good point you are hinting at, Sky, that just because someone IS physically affectionate doesn’t mean they are a good person or a good match for us.
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darwinsmom says:
That’s the thing though, big love could be physically affectionate on some level… it wasn’t totally absent… just not up to par to my level, not a cuddler. His lovemaking was the most gentle and touching I can ever remember. But he also loved to comb my wet long hair for example, and he could totally get the knots out without me ever feeling a thing about it.
Trouble is that not only is it very difficult to match my degree of cuddling nature, it’s also hard to have that intellectual connection. Spath sure never had that with me, and it’s the reason why from the start I knew he couldn’t be much of a true inspiration to me. It’s the intellectual matching that makes me passionate about someone, and then I need to feel at liberty to express that passion as freely physical as I can.
I agree, I don’t want to settle either…. What I’m wondering now is: ok, so I need to feel free to express that passion in my physical way. The question remains, now that I have a deeper understanding of other communications, do I need to receive it the same way?
Sky and Star,
Yes, that’s what I realize now too… BTW I used to say that ALL the time to spath… what a team we made! And it was based on the physical affectionateness. It gave me a team-feeling. He didn’t really seem to comprehend that concept either.
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Stargazer says:
Darwinsmom,
I love the way you are questioning what you want and what you are willing to compromise on. I know your questioning will lead you to the decision that feels right for you. It’s hard to comment, not being in your position. I think if I had someone I loved deeply who loved me, I wouldn’t expect him to live up to my past lovers or to be perfect in every way. I would relate to him on his own merit. Look at all the energy I put into my neighbor. He doesn’t even know how to kiss! On the other hand, if you choose someone who is not physically passionate, you may always miss that and idealize the past lovers who were. There is a reason you broke up with big love in the first place. It’s easy to look back and remember the good times and forget the reasons you left in the first place.
Anyway, I don’t see why it has to be all or nothing, and why you couldn’t spend some time around your ex to see how you feel, without closing yourself off to other opportunities. The thing is, if you still feel insecure by his inability to show affection in the way you need, I don’t know how you can change that in yourself.
I’d love to sit here and tell you never to settle and to hold out for everything you want. But at 51 and single, I’m not in a position to say that anymore. I think now that we just go with the best choice we have and commit to it 100%. The commitment itself takes away the unhappiness of uncertainty.
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darwinsmom says:
Star, but that’s the whole thing… He broke up with me, never I, and in a way I never left him at all. There never have been reasons for me to leave. I learned to move on based on only one thing: I had to, because even after 2 years I knew I loved him like day 1, but he would not turn back the clock…. I moved on because so is life: you can’t turn back the clock of unfortunate misunderstandings.
And it’s not easy to see whether he’d make me insecure now… He lives in California and I in Belgium.
I do know though that I actually left my insecurity behind years ago. I’m always affectionate in my communication with him. First imagery I described spontaneously in my first reply this week was sitting beside him at the campfire he set ablaze again for me to talk, take his hand and lay it against my cheek. I’ve been describing my physical affection in mails to him for 8 years without reserve.
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Stargazer says:
He sounds like such a special person, darswinsmom. How wonderful that you have had this kind of gentle love and affection in your life. You have had many other life experiences since then, and you are healing and growing. This will attract all kinds of men and experiences to you, and possibly old flames, too. You never can know in what directions that will lead you. It may lead you to reconnecting with him in a more loving and mature way. But since he is the one who left, if I were in your shoes, I would not fill in the blanks for him, but let him do all the reaching out and the traveling to see you. Sounds like the distance alone is a huge obstacle.
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skylar says:
Darwinsmom and Star,
Fear of intimacy is a common problem in men (and some women) and from what I understand, it is the cause of cheating in spaths. From what I’ve read, the spaths cheat because they don’t want to be controlled. It is part of their oppositional defiance disorder. Love is tied up in their heads with being controlled. They want to control others, not be controlled themselves. It’s part of their power addiction. So part of the reason they have to hate us, is because they feel themselves becoming vulnerable to us.
But I’m not saying fear of intimacy means someone is a spath, just that many people have it and find different ways to deal with it. You can observe the symptoms if you stay objective. One thing you will notice about people with FOI, is that they choose to have relationships where the other partner is unobtainable. They might live far away, or they might be married.
It will seem bizarre because the person seems to care deeply in every way except that they sabotage the potential for more. And it gets worse, the closer you get to them.
I think that depending on the severity of the problem, the FOI person actually begins relationships with a move to sabotage from the beginning. It’s an amazing thing to watch them moving in two directions at once.
With spaths, it’s the most obvious. They tell you that they are interested in you, while they slander you behind your back to everyone else. WTF? It’s like they are buying an insurance policy in case they get in too deep. Always have an exit strategy – that’s their policy.
But none of these people actually see that this is what they are doing. They most likely see themselves as being duplicitous and predatory. They don’t realize that the person they are most duplicitous with is themselves.
I’ve heard that people can be treated for FOI, but I’m not sure what the treatment entails. In a spath, I doubt it would work because the lies they have told themselves are so deep that they would have to peel back layer upon layer upon layer and when they finally got to the core, it would be empty.
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darwinsmom says:
Yes, Star, you are right… I feel the same way. The distance is a huge obstacle. It was already to his mind, when it wasn’t for me, and I’ve outgrown any sentiments of wanting to move to another country long since. He knows that.
At the moment romance is far from his mind I think, or he might use it as a fantasy to escae his pain. He needs to heal from the rejection by people so important to him, and learn from the mistakes he made to cause them to do so. Romance is never a real healer for this. For the moment though he can seek me out in cyberspace by mail to lick his wounds and find inspiration to get back on a path. I am safe from hurt, since the hurt is long in the past and I got through it.
We’ll see then, and if he were to see me differently than when he did when he left me, yes, he needs to do the reaching and traveling. I don’t think that out of “it’s his turn”, but because it is his shield and wall and only he can bring it down. He’s like a catterpillar getting out of its cocoon, and he has to do that all by himself.
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Stargazer says:
Darwinsmom, I had that special feeling about the guy I met in Costa Rica. He is the ‘one who got away’ in my life. Every 6 months or so, he will contact me, and it stirs up my feelings again. But he is not interested in rekindling a romance. In fact, I think he’s married now – I doubt happily but married nonetheless. I think he just reaches out when he is bored or lonely. But he hasn’t been consistently in my life, so I don’t consider him a real friend. Everything I feel for him is based on the past or on a fantasy of how it could have been.
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darwinsmom says:
I know he reaches out when he knows I’m either struggling or he is. No, we’re not a constant presence, but we’ve helped each other through each storm in life in as much as we could and give the right inspiration to each other. It’s why he’s contacting me now. He mentioned not being able to find the resilience by himself to pick up his life. He’s hoping that just by communicating in our unique way, I’ll probably intuitively say exactly the things that he needs to hear and inspire him once more.
What I feel is based on both the past, seeing him again two years later with the intent to move beyond only to realize that this marvelous person was still as marvelous to me (and why I know it’s not a fantasy of mine), and the communication since then: basically he’s been an inspiration to me since day 1, and has been that over and over again.
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Vidya says:
Skylar your post really resonated with me!
My ex spath was only physically intimate with me in the first few weeks of dating–and we dated for a little over a year. When I would ask him about it he gave me several different excuses. He would let me serve HIS needs but he would never do anything for me, so I just stopped doing anything sexual for him the last six months of our relationship and it was as if he never noticed.
We lived together in a sexless relationship. There was hugging and a kiss when getting home from work or before bed and cuddling every night while falling asleep but it was just so bizarre. Sometimes I wondered if he is gay. This tough, angry guy being gay seemed really counter-intuitive though.
Very early on in the relationship when this was popping up a red flag for me and I asked him about the lack of sexual intimacy one of the excuses he gave me was that he was used to just hooking up with women after going out to a bar and he could not equate sex with love. And the only times we did it in the beginning was when he’d been drinking.
He drank a lot when we first went out but stopped. I thought drunk him was more relaxed and fun than sober him, in hindsight.
I cannot say for sure but perhaps when he gets close to someone he cannot relinquish that power and control sexual intimacy requires. When I would ask if he had regular sex with his ex-gfs he would just respond, “well every relationship is different” and I never got a straight answer.
He even dated a girl who was bi and she had a girlfriend on the side and he seemed OK with it when talking about that relationship!
Just so BIZARRE.
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Louise says:
Vidya:
I think your X spath definitely had a fear of intimacy. It’s really sad I think
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Stargazer says:
Darwinsmom, I don’t see a problem with you having this great friend in your life as long as it doesn’t keep you in a fantasy world and prevent you from moving on. It doesn’t sound like it’s going to go any farther than what it is. If he wanted to be with you, you would be together. Does it matter if he is afraid of intimacy or what his problem is? This, to me, is where so many of us give our power away. A guy is not into us, so we spend our time analyzing and trying to figure out why and how. This is where it would be good for us to get in touch with our inner sociopath and say, “He is not into me – he doesn’t want to be with me. So I’m not going to give him one more minute of my time. I’m just gonna move on.” It can even be empowering to tell him that he is not giving you what you want so you are moving on and breaking ties.
I eventually had to break the connection with the guy from Costa Rica. It hurt me to do it, but every time he contacted me, it stirred up my feelings. I would start thinking about him and comparing other men to him. He would tell me how special I was to him and how he “treasured” me. And yet, he was involved with someone else and never made any effort to see me. Why should I waste my time thinking about a man who doesn’t want to be with me? I got into this magical thinking that maybe he will realize what he missed…..blah blah blah. The bottom line is that actions speak louder than words.
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darwinsmom says:
Star, he’s not keeping me from living in the present, the reality. But I cannot do what you describe to him. I made that choice ten years ago: it was breaking all ties (the depressive gatetunnel to the airplane) or unconditional love (the beautiful shiny hallway leading straight to the tarmak). I chose the unconditional love. Never regreted it. Not gonna start regretting it now either.
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Stargazer says:
Darwinsmom, I was projecting that you must be a hopeless romantic like I am…….you have a big heart, and I envy the way you can stay in touch with him. I couldn’t do it with the guy in Costa Rica. If I could, we could have a friendship that could span our lifetime. It did sound like you were entertaining getting back together with him, so that was the basis for my comment.
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darwinsmom says:
I haven’t contemplated it for years… it was just that when sky helped me to understand the misunderstanding better, combined with my soul singing away, I did contemplate how I’d respond, what would be my opinion, how would I feel if he happened to stand in front of my door, knowing full well that the chances to that happening are nill.
But as I contemplated it, I realized it wouldn’t be healthy at all, not for me, not for him at this point in our lives. We might help each other to heal, yes… but exactly because of it, we’d be each other rebound, and therefore not lasting. That then makes me think it’s better to do this healing each other from a friendship position, over distance.
So, I contemplated it but from a ure hypothetical pov, to check my own feelings and responses and ideas, because they can help me in general. The last few days though has also helped me to see the contrast between the spath and him as examples of what inspires me, what my needs are, what may not be my needs, what may have me fooled, when would I be settling, when wouldn’t I be, … I think I realize how important the intellectual matching actually is to me, where my insecurities come from, how in future men it would be important to check what their type of affection communication is like and whether it’s truly an issue or not, etc…
I know it sounds magnanomous, but at the time of my choice, I just knew that I would benefit the most myself if I chose the unconditional love for him. Even in hindsight, in what it gave me the past decade, I would have been more damaged and hurt if I had chosen the forget-him tunnel.
An example: At the time I was with the spath and chatted with him, he was the one I dared to be the most honest too about my doubts (something I didn’t show to others), and his response was so supportive: he warned me against the man, but also understood I needed to find out and run my head into a wall. After that conversation, some of the things he had said remained in the back of my mind, and I started to act more and more to have the spath be responsible in his life, cutting down on the financial support, in finding a job, etc… And of course, instead of doing that, he started to look for a new victim for him to “save” him. It took almost a year after that conversation I had with my big love, but it might have sped up the devalue and ditching process.
PS. I’m a romantic
I can watch Pride and Prejudice any time :p
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skylar says:
Vidya,
the lack of sex from a sex addict can be one of the most confusing aspects about a dysfunctional relationship.
There are so many layers to it. I think that most spaths just think they are doing it to punish the partner or to keep us wanting more. But deep down, they are doing it because they are afraid of that connection.
When I left my spath I said, “you’re a sociopath because you never wanted to grow up – you even told me that you never wanted to grow up.”
His response, “I never wanted to grow up because then you get a wife and she leaves you.”
I don’t know if he knows how much truth there was in that statement. That was what he experienced with his mother leaving his father and it caused him to run away from home at age 12. He never went back until he was 17 when he went to live with his spath father.
Here’s a good article on fear of intimacy (the webpage format is bad but the content is good)
http://joy2meu.com/Fear_of_Intimacy.html
He talks about co-dependents wearing masks – just like spaths do. So in effect he portrays (to me) that we have some spath characteristics only to a lesser extent, in that we are not completely honest and truthful.
For me, the more spaths I know, the less honest I can be.
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callmeathena says:
I think it’s the less honest you can be, because you are simply protecting yourself.
Athena
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skylar says:
yes Athena,
that’s one of the ways they slime us and also, one of the reasons.
We go into a relationshit with a spath with our hearts open and they envy that ability we have. So their betrayals are aimed at teaching us to be less trusting. And that’s what happens, that’s the slime.
I hope to eventually get past that and feel so much trust in MYSELF, that it doesn’t matter how many spaths I encounter, I will still be true to myself. Boundaries, I guess, are the answer.
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