How can you know when you’ve encountered a sociopath?
PDF “The motivation (for lying) is particularly baffling in endogenous deceit when the psychopath may appear to have everything he wants yet continues quite predictably to commence the manipulative cycle.” So says Dr. Reid Meloy in The Psychopathic Mind, p121.
“I don’t think they even eat an ice cream cone just for pleasure, I think they do everything for the effect it has, or the image it presents. It isn’t about what is REAL it is about what they can appear to be. To them, I think, if they can get others to believe it, then it becomes “reality” as far as they are concerned.” So says Ox Drover in a comment on this blog.
There is complete agreement about one thing regarding sociopaths, that is lying defines them. While studies show that many people lie daily, the lying behavior of sociopaths differs in both degree and kind from “normal” lying. Sociopaths do not just misrepresent the truth in small ways to spare someone’s feelings, avoid an argument or avoid trouble. Sociopaths misrepresent themselves and this misrepresentation extends to everyone they know. (For more advanced readers, there may not be much of a self there to misrepresent.)
You don’t need a checklist
So today I can tell you with confidence that you don’t need a checklist of symptoms or a forensic expert. If you are astounded by another person’s capacity to lie and misrepresent reality you can be sure you have encountered a sociopath.
I said a few weeks ago that I think Meloy’s book The psychopathic Mind is a great contribution to humanity. In this book, Meloy puts forth the idea that we can identify “psychopaths” by observing what he calls “the psychopathic process.” I searched the book for a precise definition of “the psychopathic process” and couldn’t find one but he implies that psychopathy is defined by the way a person interacts with others and with him/herself. He also says that it is possible to identify a “psychopath” by the way that person makes you feel. If you can look within yourself and monitor your own reactions you can learn to tell when you are face to face with “the psychopathic process.”
It doesn’t “work” on me anymore!
I have learned what it feels like to be “worked” and because I know what that feels like, “it” doesn’t work on me anymore. Sociopaths do not just lie, they work people. Their relationships are an occupation for them and it’s not just a job, it’s an adventure. They will even work when there is no apparent reason to. Why do they do this? They do this because there is nothing else they can do. They have little or no capacity to look within and find an inner compass of values and pleasures. As Ox Drover points out, the only real pleasure they have is their “work.”
Dr. Meloy gives a great example of a psychopath “at work” on page 138 when he discusses a professional who was “worked” by a psychopath. Knowing that he was going to be assigned a certain probation officer, the psychopath asked others who knew her about her interests. On discovering that the woman was interested in metaphysics and the writings of Alfred North Whitehead, the psychopath went and read the writings. He then gained the respect and admiration of the P.O. because he discussed these writings as if he too had a genuine interest in them that predated his knowledge of her.
Meloy says, “He does not just play the role, observing the limits of his character, but lives the part.” People are taken in by the psychopath’s work because in the moment the psychopath really thinks and feels the part. His part is real and yet also a deception.
You know you are being worked when the things you love/enjoy are mirrored in this way. You can tell the difference between this mirroring and real sharing by the extent to which the other person tries to build your enthusiasm and point to the apparent “twin-ship” you share. This mirroring and twin-ship can occur with big things as in the metaphysics example and it can occur with little things as in the ice cream example.
Now if you know what I am talking about, you have been worked; you are likely far along in the recovery process because you know what this feels like. If you have only a vague notion of what I am saying, Dr. Meloy has other words of wisdom for you.
In the psychopathic process there is a “complete disconnect between words and actions.” If you notice that a person’s actions point south and their words point north, you are dealing with a sociopath. To be concrete, if the person says they love you and either doesn’t spend much time with you, or repeatedly harms and stresses you, you are in the middle of a psychopathic process. But remember since the person “lives the part” at the moment he/she is with you and says “I love you” there is some vague reality to the statement (especially if the person has the disorder in a lesser form, see last week). To see the psychopathic process, you have to train yourself to pay attention to both a person’s words and to remember that person’s deeds at the same time.
If you do this you will be able to see the disconnect between words and deeds and the psychopathic process. If you begin to see the psychopathic process, it is very important that you not share this observation with the psychopath. He or she will not benefit from your feedback and may even become violent. At the moment you see the process, you must discipline yourself and disconnect. If you have problems with self-discipline you likely need a therapist to help you disentangle from the psychopathic process.
Recovery and discovery are about learning to pay attention. Pay attention to yourself and pay attention to what other people say and do. Most people need help in order to learn the skill of paying attention. That is the kind of help a good therapist can give you.
In the next few weeks we’ll talk more about the psychopathic process. Please feel free to share your experience of being worked or the disconnect between words and deeds.
written by Liane Leedom, M.D. • Permalink •
Ox Drover says:
Dear Adamsrib, I’m a registered nurse practitioner (they call us advanced practice nurses now) and I worked in spinal cord rehab for years (loved it!) in 1994 we moved back to my family farm and I started working in public clinics (like a doctor’s office) in the rural area with just a physician back up by telephone. I loved that too. Then for 4 years worked in College health services, then the last 2 yrs before my husband’s death, in psych in the hospital on weekends only so I could spend more time at home.
I love history and outdoors and riding horses and donkeys and so on, and I was in a living history group so I trained steers (oxen) to pull a wagon for my “demonstration” and I loved it. It was great! Not many working cattle in the south (still lots in new england though) and I am a kind of a “ham” any way so it was a great way to teach kids about history and still play “dress up” (I have never grown up in case you didn’t know!)
Now, though I just have the asses (donkeys) because equines are protected from folks suing you if they are (the people) stupid enough to not know they should not stick their heads under the jack asses and the asses kick them. By Arkansas LAW they CAN NOT sue me if they are that stupid, but there is NO such protective law for BOVINEs (cattle) so the steers went to that great big freezer in the sky a few years ago when their natural life span had come and gone. They were 16 years old which is almost double what most cattle live to be, and steers or bulls usually don’t go more than 2-4 years so they had a grand old life and enjoyed lots of kids petting them and when their time came they didn’t feel a thing.
I hope I am as lucky when my time comes as those old steers were! I hope the LAST THING I SEE before the lights go out is the bottom of the back feet of one of the asses as he kicks my brains to kingdom come!
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adamsrib says:
Ox Drover:
OMG you are so hilarious. I have been reading a lot of past posts and I am LMAO at yours, Erin Brock and a few others antics. It is sooo WONDERFUL to laugh knowing the hell we have been through.
I realized thru all this that my ex husband is also a spath and it all adds up now. I told my former teacher (the old fart from the gym) that I knew I was to learn something from him after all these years and that is why he is (was) supposed to be in my life. I thought he was to be my “Shaman Lover” as described in Elizabeth Lesser’s book “Broken Open”.
Yes, he did turn out to be that, but so much more. He was the catalyst for me to realize that I lived many years with a very sick puppy spath as my husband and what it did to me and my boys is still with us. This man I met at the gym (who came to me as a former “authority figure”, a teacher) only points the way to healing. In this way, I cannot hate him. Of course I was not overly involved with him (thank God for his indifference) and I am not super hooked like some here. What a brick to the head!!
I can just see you in your “costumes” with your team. God what a visual. That would make a fine documentary or something. You are that interesting.
About not putting your head under a jackass. I am afraid I have done that too many times in my personal life:) I am beginning to see that the men I choose are all faulty. Wow, Lucy do I ever have some learnin to do!
I am beginning to feel the anger at “Teacher”. If I end up with an STD, I will be murderous. I was stupid, Ox. I had never smoked pot and I let him encourage me to take some hits off his bong and well the behavior that followed was risky. Now I have to face the music. I am not ashamed to say this to all here. Hope it helps someone reading this confession. Sure helps me get the load off but I feel like such a juvenile idiot!! I spent most of my adult life in a very conservative Christian lifestyle and I am socially retarded! I was raised Catholic but left. I should have stayed Catholic. At least I would have gotten my oats sown when they were supposed to be not now in my middle years. Sorry for the rant. Thanks for your sense of humor and for sharing your life with us here. It means a lot.
Well off to bed. I hope I am not taking “teach” to lightly. It has only been a few days since NC. It could come back and bite me in the azz. G’nite.
Adamsrib
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Ox Drover says:
Dear Adamsrib,
Glad we can provide some comic relief, we sure need it here. Sometimes on Fri or Sat nites EB Hens, One and Rosa and I get kind of silly (sometimes others) and we howl at the moon!
Well, I smoked my share of waccy baccy when i was a kid, but quit all that a long time ago. Thank God I didn’t get involved with anything stronger or worse! Or catch something Penicillian won’t cure! That’s the thing about sex outside of a REAL committed relationship. It can KILL you!
I’m no prude that’s for sure, but I have quit being “religious” and have become much more spiritual. I think I was literally abused by my “religious” teaching that was NOT followed by my egg donor—lying was terrible for me, but she had a “good reason” so hers was OK. Typical, but I actually did not realize I had an “abusive” childhood…I actually thought in a lot of ways it was GREAT and in some ways it was. I just accepted most of what I was spoon fed as “Gospel truth” only SOME of it didn’t slide down so smoothly.
Now, I EXAMINE what I take in rather than swallowing anyone else’s “Gospel” without examining it.
Your TEACHER did teach you something. Maybe not what you thought the lesson would be, but YOU GOT IT CHICKIE!!! That’s the thing we must realize is “when we need the lesson, the teacher comes.” I think “someone” said that once upon a time. (not sure who but someone will tell me!~)
Don’t feel bad for being a “late bloomer” there aren’t too many much later bloomers Than I am! Sweet Gemini is the only one I think later than me, and she’s not much “more mature,” so you are in good company.
Learning to set boundaries and deciding what it is that you will ALLOW others to do to you, or the way they will treat you, that’s the score I think.
‘
Sit down and make a list of what you will NOT allow.
I mean if you make a list of what you will allow it could be a million pages long. “Will allow someone to give me diamonds, roses, money…cars…etc”
But if you make a list of ABSOLUTE DEAL BREAKERS like “NO lies. None. Zip. Zero lies.”
NO dishonesty of any kind.
etc.
Matt one of our wonderful guys here has a “tion” list for people he dates.
They mjust have:
Transporta-TION
Habita-TION
Educa-TION
Reputa-TION
Etc. I can’t remember what the rest of them are but like “job-tion” or whatever. In other words no mooches, no creeps, no druggies and so on. Even then you can still get burned but if you eliminate the convicts and druggies and drunks, it is a good start!
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Greg Wray says:
I’ve just read your article and finally realise I’m not going mad, I’ve been living with a sociopath!
How do you break the addiction?
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adamsrib says:
Thankx OxD! I just had a thought! oh noooo:..haha.. Good Morning America is looking for an advice person to be on their show regularly. Kinda like a Dear Abby person. I think you should try out.. It’s on their website. I nominate Oxy!!
I generally do have a list like you mention. A deal breaker list but when I ran into Mr. Gorgeous at the gym I kinda got hypnotized and it sorta went out the window. It was the old persona of the gorgeous young teacher who looked like a young Elvis that did it. Only now he is more distinguished and “mature”( Yeah right) . I was a goner even at this age.
I am very thankful that I did in fact learn the lesson: RUN LIKE HELL FROM SPATHS!! I have heard the saying “when the student is ready the teacher comes”. Only my teacher didn’t come-too much pot
That is true you know. Marijuana inhibits orgasm. 
That could be a very good thing, in retrospect! Gotta have a sense of humor about it.
I have to admit that I am proud of myself that I was able to recognize that something was not right and I needed to back away big time. Kinda like when you run into a bear in the woods. Yikes! In my younger years I would have walked into it blindly. So even tho I am older now I can still grow. That’s great!
Thanks Oxy and don’t forget to check out the Good Morning America job, you would be awesome!
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kim frederick says:
Adamsrib, Your anology of running into a bear in the woods, reminded me of this: When I was a little kid, my mom and grandad and me took a trip to yellowstone. We saw a bear in the distance and my mom wanted to take a picture….so she put the small instamatic camara to her eye to focus, and started walking toward the bear…well, she finally took the picture, and when she brought the camara down, away from her eye, she was only about 6 feet away from the bear. Good Lord, Yikes is right……but isn’t that kind of what we do when we obsess on them, trying to get an accurate picture of them, trying to understand why they do what they do?
We lose pespective and get way too close to them for our own good.
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kim frederick says:
Will a spath contaminate his envirnment? Does a bear —- in the woods?
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Ox Drover says:
Kim, THAT IS A PRICELESS STORY AND ANALOGY!!!! YES!!!! Through the “lenses” we see them through, PERCEPTION IS DISTORTED and we get way too close before we even know it.!!!
The answer to your question is YES!!!!!!
ROTFLMAO Great Post Kimmie! Thanks!!!
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Ox Drover says:
Dear Adamsrib,
Well, I thought about the job, but it would mean I had to get up EARLLLLLLY in the morning (no longer my thang) and I’d have to move off the farm, so I guess I’ll pass on the “Dear Oxy Job” and just stay here on the “”DONNA’s LOVEFRAUD CHANNEL—tune in tomorrow for what’s new!” ROTFLMAO
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WhyMe says:
Kim,
I loved the analogy about your mother & the bear. Man! Isn’t the truth! We see this great beast—so magnificent in its wildness & overwhelming musk—& our first reaction should be to have a righteous fear of it. But, no, we want to get closer, even tho we know it’s dangerous…..& when it doesn’t immediately maul us to death, we’re overawed at its gentleness—->& sadly, begin to think of ourselves as someone very special because the beast has been tamed by our wonderfulness!! Or at least that’s the way I apply it to my own experience.
And, yes, as Oxy said, our perception is distorted by our closeness to it. We should change the zoom on the lens, but we don’t do it in time!!
Oxy,
also what you said earlier about our believing that ANYTHING & EVERYTHING they say to us is TRUE! Oh my!
Yes, he always had an answer for everything, he knew how to do anything, & he was (is) so intelligent, so of course I knew I could accept everything he said as being true. NOT TRUE, as it turned out! Reading the chapt 9 excerpt of Donna’s book yesterday, & the recounting of allll the grand tales her hb told her about his business dealings….Oh My!
We think, “How could anyone spin so much detail, all woven together so neatly, if it weren’t true??” And, of course, the “grain of truth” that’s always thrown in makes it impossible for us to see as even doubtful.
So therein is the trick bag of pain: following their yellow brick road of half-truths & lies & empty promises—& so sure that we can see Emerald City just over there—& then BAM! We’re told that we were never good enough to be allowed into Oz. Lies to build us up & lies to tear us down.
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Ox Drover says:
Dear Whyme,
Yep, you are getting the lesson! The one we all have to learn.
The horrible part is that when we first start to learn it we are in such pain that it just eats our hearts out! There will come a time, though, Whyme, when you can have the lesson without the pain.
You can look by and see the things you should have seen then, and you would have seen if you weren’t “blinded” by the rosy-colored lenses of our vision of love. Once we get them off, the vision is cleared up and we are no longer in pain with it.
We can retain the lesson without the pain involved. I’m not sure WHEN exactly I passed through that change-over, but I can realize now that I did pass through it.
I remember once after my very “traumatic” divorce from my first husband, about 18 months later, It just DAWNED ON ME ONE DAY I WAS HAPPY. “Happy” had kind of sneaked up on me without me noticing.
I think the same thing has happened again. It has sort of sneaked up when I wasn’t looking! You’ll get there, just keep on trucking! (((hugs))))
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adamsrib says:
Well guys, you’ll be interested to know that I ran into the old man in the gym today. I had changed my time, he knew I had changed my time, I specifically told him we need to take a break and when I walk in (at my time) there he is. He gives me this sad sack routine “what happened I thought we were doing good. I get a card from you (before LF) then this dear John phone message (afterLF) ” wahwahwah..
I had made a promise to myself NC so what now? I sucked it up and here’s the dialogue and it is classic spath:
Him: So there you are
Me: you’re here early
Him: Well I have to watch the grandkids this afternoon (liar!!He dragged his sorry ol azz in like we knew he would to hook me in again).
Me: We need to talk
Him: Talk about what?
Me: the confusion
Him: Confusion? What confusion? I’m not confused.
Me: Well you’re not the only one in the relationship. In case you haven’t noticed I’m here too (the whole time his eyes are darting from side to side like one of those cat clocks from the 60′s like he’s trying to figure out what to say) so let’s come up with a time to meet (he does not say a word but leaves to take his shower. When he comes out of the shower room he starts to tell everybody goodbye and acts like he is leaving).
Me: Before you leave we need to come up with a time to get together so we can have a chat (a bluff, of course I know that will NEVER happen)
Him: (he is really nervous and wired because he knows he is caught ) Well, I don’t know why you are feeling like this!!
Me: this is why we need to meet to talk, so you’ll know
Him: Well, I’ll be here on Friday (at the gym with all his cronies-his time).
Me: I won’t discuss our personal issues in front of your crew. This is how it works, You call me, we set a time, we meet for coffee and lay our cards out on the table (he is looking mighty gobsmacked by now-didn’t think Mother Teresa had it in her) and if you can’t do it that way then forget about all of it!!
Him: (he is pissed) Ok, then forget it! $%#$@!!! (he slinks away like the snake he is).
Everyone in the gym is hearing this whole exchange and when he leaves I practically expect the gym folks to break out into applause. I am feeling like Sally Fields in “Norma Rae”. I go into the women’s locker room and pump my fist with a loud “Yeah, I am Woman hear me roar baby!”
It feels so good to stand up to him and watch him slither out. Will he gaslight me? Probably but the beauty is he is so much older than me that he will look like the proverbial old fool so it is a win-win for me. He is in check mate!
To quote Jame Brown: “I feel good dadadadadaduh OW!!
I am soooo proud of myself. I pulled out Oxy’s skillet and kerpow!!
This site is da bomb. A week ago I would not have known what to do or that there was even a name for his weirdness much less how to read him and give it back.
Thanks guys!!
Just a NOTE: this would not work on many spaths. It works on this one because he is an old buzzard who knows his time is dust, A younger person could go violent and it could be dangerous to try this. I think the crew on here would agree. My gut tells me he will retreat into his man cave and plot how to screw some other dumb woman over without a hint of remorse or concern for me. It may not be the last of him but he will be seeing stars for a while. KERPOW!!
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Ox Drover says:
Dear Adamsrib,
I’m so proud of you!!!! TOWANDA!!!! And yes, I agree with your note that this might not work on all kinds of Ps but on this one I think you are right!
IF HE ACCOSTS YOU VERBALLY again at the gym, just say something sort of “whisper” but loud enough that others can hear (of course!) “John I tried to get you to meet me privately so I could let you know, but due to the differences in our ages it isn’t going to work, I REALLY DO NEED SOMEONE WHO CAN STILL GET IT UP!” Then turn and prance off with your bouncy hair!
I think he will change gyms.
See, I can be as BAAAAAD as EB! LOL
Good job!
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adamsrib says:
Really really LMAO!!HAHAHAHAHAHHA!! peeing my pants LMAO!!:)
Gurl you are crazy HAHAHAHA!!!!!!
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Hopeforjoy says:
Adamsrib,
It’s soooo wonderful to hear some happy news!!!! Finally someone is able to give the spath the what for, the old codger lost the battle! No wonder Viagra is profitable, there are so many spaths with overused privates, they can’t get it up anymore! Poor guys, feel bad for ‘em, NOT!
Good things do happen. Thank gosh for karma.
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Hopeforjoy says:
I just re-read this article about the spath ‘working’ you. How they try to mirror your feelings and you think you hit the jackpot.
I wanted to share how the spath in my life hooked me by working me. I didn’t like him at first and thought he was kind of jumpy and seemed so intense. He was flirty and went to a party just so he could meet me, asked me out and gave me a wonderful card. I was just going through a divorce and he knew I had a hard time and was showing me sympathy. This whole time he is wooing me, he has his old girlfriend on the back burner. He lied about some things but I didn’t find it too disturbing because his explainations were plausable.
He pursued me hard and wanted a committment. He also fixed it so I wouldn’t talk to my old boyfriend, he said that Tom was spreading rumors about me, I was going to complain to human resources but spath talked me out of it.
Spath worked me from the beginning, he made it seem like he was my knight in shining armor, saving me from my bad circumstances. I thought he was too good to be true, turns out I was right.
They will work you and be so suave about it. They are self assured and arrogant, so much that if you catch them in a lie, they talk their way out. They work everyone in their circle of friends and family. It’s like they are on stage and it’s all a game. They are in it to win it.
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ErinBrock says:
Adamsrib:
GIRL……you BACKSPATHED HIM!
Hahahahahaha!!!!
You get the first GOLDEN EB Award!
Now…..take your win and go ‘grey rock’ on him!
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bluejay says:
adamsrib,
Thanks for the story, telling us about your spath encounter at the gym – very encouraging.
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kim frederick says:
Towanda, adamsrib. Doesn’t it FEEL GOOD when you take back your power and start setting the ground rules? He tried pretty hard to keep the upper hand but you were brilliant, and out maneavered him. YOU ROCK!
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adamsrib says:
Thanks for the props guys!!
What I forgot to mention is that I had come right when he was leaving but he stuck around to be a pest. He kept trying to talk to me and act cute in front of our friends. He finally approached me and that’s when it started. I was determined to stay NC even though I was in the same room. One friend asked me “what was that all about?”. I did tell her briefly but decided that it is best to keep my mouth shut as he will make HIMSELF look like a fool from now on.
I do intend to continue at the gym but will make sure to avoid his time. And if he is STUPID enough to show up at my time he’ll get more of the same. I simply WILL NOT take this anymore and I am not giving up my gym because of him.
I do realize that I need to be on guard because these people have a very uncanny (it’s down right evil) way of getting back into our good graces. He was smiling that smile at me the whole time and I was feeling soft inside. Glad I did not let that take over. I kept telling myself what an azzhole he has been to me. I could get really mean but as I have said before, senior citizens can still pull a trigger. I would rather avoid him completely. I have a feeling his pride will keep him far from me. Let’s hope it doesn’t cause him to try harder. That would suck.
EB: I am HONORED!!! Kim, it DOES feel good to know I DO NOT have to be a doormat for a sick ol fool or for ANYONE for that matter. I had a real moment there guys.
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adamsrib says:
Oxy, I’ve got my skillet honed and ready to go…
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ErinBrock says:
adamsrib;
Hopefully that skillet is AIMED directly at Oxy for when she give her 97 year old-ho toting- neighbor cash again…..And NOT for the senior citizen sex toy of yours!
Cuz……HE DON”T DESERVE ANymore attention or anything from you!
Just go work out and be done!
You don’t want to play hand on stick with him……and tha’ts what it will become.
Leave empowered!
GREY ROCK, GREY ROCK!!!
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adamsrib says:
Hey no kidding. That is why I don’t even want to be mean because mean is attention of some kind. NC means that to me. If he comes in at my time, I WILL shut him down again.
I am feeling very foolish that at my age I was taken in by this guy. I know it is because in some weird place in my memory bank I have 15 year old high school girl still crushing on a gorgeous teacher and don’t think he did not know that-he used it to his advantage. So I am feeling very STUPID . I should know better. I am thankful that it was not worse. I am sure he is dipping into the senior ladies barrel and reeking all kinds of havoc there. I don’t even want to know.
I disagree with charolottecreamer. I do not feel I need to pray for him. His soul will be judged by God. It is not my concern to change his soul. I pray for his poor grandchildren and his other victims. If I go the “I forgive you” route, he will use that too and I will get hooked in to feeling sorry for him. I feel like he is the loser and I absolutely CANNOT let him get me with the sympathy play. He will try anything it takes. I can forgive in my own heart and keep it to myself and FORGET it. Sadly, so many others here had such a hard time with their spaths that they cannot forget so easily. I pray for them, not for the perp!!
Maybe I’m dumb but what is Grey Rock?
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adamsrib says:
I’ve been reading this thread and someone mentioned their s-ex ending up dying alone. I used to feel sorry for the old man thinking oh gawd, Mr. Gorgeous Teacher/Crush is going to end up alone when he dies (Mother Teresa again) and get this: my older half sister (who is his age and I swear is the model for the cartoon lady Maxine) told me “we get what we have coming”. Yeah, Karma will bite him in the azz and I don’t need to be there to watch it happen.. YEAH BABY!!!
I will not judge his soul, I just refuse to carry it on MY back!!
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one_step_at_a_time says:
adamsrib – grey rock = ignore and move on.
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hens says:
oh my
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one_step_at_a_time says:
hi hens…how’s your back and your pup?
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one_step_at_a_time says:
and dude, what’s with the ‘oh my’….?
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hens says:
Hi Onestep – My back is better, I have chronic lower back pain, something I just live with. Crickit is back to her usual self, wanting to play all the time. She is a tuff little thing, a survivor like me. I am going to have a garage sale first saturday of oct. they are so much work but I have lot’s of things to sell, been cleaning out everything. Some of my clients have givin me truck loads of stuff and say I can keep the money. It is my hope too make enuff money to buy propane for the winter..Everytime I have a garage sale I say never again, but I have aquired some good chit to sale this time…..and how are you perking this evening Onesteppers?
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one_step_at_a_time says:
ouu, garage sales….i haven’t in years but i have both made a bucka and spent a buck. here’s to a winter long fuel supply!
doxies are scrappy. my mom’s boy was so lovley. found some pics of him for her…should print those off tonight and send them to her.
not feeling too well. but other than that not bad at all. looking forward to the weekend worked last weekend, hope to get out to the country this weekend. will be doing a bit of spath watch stuff, but that’s fine. it’s just not triggering me. phone just rang and the screen is burnt on that phone – so i can’t see who it is. so not answering. think tomorrow might be a good day to change my number.
such a huge weight off.
think my boy neighbor is gay. and a boxer. well, i KNOW he is a boxer…;) his ‘friend’ was here real late and the walls are thin…bless his heart.
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hens says:
OH MY ~! a gay boxer for a neighbor ~ with a friend and thin walls ~! Oh this is going to be better than TV ~! Keep me posted Onestep I need something spicey to think about…
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one_step_at_a_time says:
haha – me too! he’s always hanging out with guys. and his sisters. he’s really young – 21. and i have been wondering…’cause there isn’t a girl in sight. will keep you posted. and thanks for saying this – i can see i so need a life when i need the neighbor boy to live through vicariously!
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Ox Drover says:
Adamsrib,
“Gray rock” or “Potted plants” are our code word terms for the people we don’t want to respond to because they are just looking for trouble, trying to get in to an argument so we treat them like POTTED PLANTS—-IGNORE THEM COMPLETELY. We talk about gardening, watering plants, or just anything you want to talk about, music, yoiur kids, your yard, watchin paint dry, whatever and thye get bored and go away if we dont respond to them.
It works!
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adamsrib says:
Hey guys,
Did any of you see 20/20 this Friday evening? The “Military Mistress” is one HUGE sociopath- she even says her own mom calls her that. Very interesting story:
http://abcnews.go.com/2020
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Ox Drover says:
Adamsrib,
I looked that up, as didn’t see the show–that woman is as bad as Donna’s JAMES MONTGOMERY!!! She is unbelievable! Had 9 kids by 9 men and gave them all away. WOW!!!! That is just WOW!!!!
Thanks for the link!!!!
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dancingnancies says:
Oh wow. I just had a flashback and/or epiphany. The S would always say, and always when HE did something wrong and I wanted to confront him about it. “You always want to argue..” As if he’s some saint, some angel, some peace maker! For example, had i come upon incriminating information about him stringing along several other women, and gotten angry because of that fact ( as I rightly should ) … that was me “trying to argue”. Circular argument indeed.
No wonder those who have been preyed on by sociopaths appear to appear “meek” and “lobotomized” after a period of time! They attempt to throw a wrench in your ANGER. Anger is healthy- I forget where I’m borrowing this example, but if you imagine a prisoner being held captive by his captors, the last vestige, the last sliver himself is held in his anger. Because his anger is the cry for justice, and that which binds his loyalty to his self. And we all know the most important relationship we have : is with ourselves. If we “give away our anger” or “act like it’s not there” we are as Kathy Krajco once said literally “bending over for it” ( Think : Sin of Sodom ) .. she also said the word “betray” literally means to “offer yourself on a platter” … Be – Tray
Kathy Krajco writes : ” something that makes any man, woman, or child feel so self-degraded that they hate themselves ever after.”
Yes, they make you betray your relationship with yourSELF so you can mindnumbingly follow whatever the S wants you to do. See, they’ve got yourself doubting your own sanity, your own intuition, your very last vestige of self ( Anger ) … so you are placing that which you should give to yourself to THEM. And of course they don’t give a flying squibble about your well-being, so of course that places you in a very precarious position.
I think when put into those terms, the picture becomes very vivid. Revolting, yes, but clear.
By the way Dr. Leedom this is an excellent post, thanks. I do recall many stages of Mirroring ESPECIALLY at the onset of the predator-prey interaction, involving my interests and likes. Most are quite textbook, in fact. I was definetely “worked”.. it’s the mirroring which causes people to think that they’ve met their soulmate when in fact it’s the exact opposite.. you’ve walked into the Devil’s Lair itself. I think it also helps to think of how they “work” someone as the “psychopathic process” as you mentioned because it’s not simply a set of traits any longer… it’s much more distinctive than that. I’m definetely going to look into that book, thanks for mentioning it.
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GoingThroughTheMotions says:
And that is why they are so vicious when they discard you – because they are experiencing bitter disappointment that you, as their plaything, have failed to provide whatever on-going, ever-changing sustenance they need. Because at some point, when they were with you, and they said they loved you, they just might have actually believed it in that moment, they just might have thought they were normal in that moment, and they just might have even fooled themselves for a moment. But then, as always, their disorder takes over, their narcissism kicks into overdrive, and once again, faced with the shambles of their own making, and their inability to own it, they throw the blame outwards – and feel genuinely entitled to do so, because as their plaything, it is obviously all your fault. Even though they clearly abused you, used you, stole, lied, cheated, and neglected – with full intent, or at least awareness, because that is the only way they know how to relate to the object in their lives! And then, when they know that “it” doesn’t work on you anymore, they are all the more incensed. It still boggles my mind, how someone can be so markedly, pointedly, deliberately, and intimately cruel, when they weren’t capable of real intimacy to begin with. And how is it that they actually believe, that if they just gloss over it all, you will once again, suddenly become susceptible to “it” all over again? Last time he tried to draw me in, he had a mini-tantrum when I remained indifferent – or at least convincingly feigned indifference. I admit, his frustration amused me. Hopefully one day I will move beyond this stage too. But for now, I’m not there yet.
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skylar says:
Going,
great post. Yes, the last few tantrums also amused me. But at the same time they never fail to leave a trail of slime.
I believe you are right about them believing for a few moments that their lies are true. They are like a kid with a toy, that gives them great pleasure, because it always lights up and buzzes when they push the buttons, but at the same time the kid like to abuse his toys until they break, and when it does, he gets mad, says, “stupid toy” and stomps on it, smashing it to smithereens.
Near the end, my exP looked at me and said, “when did you stop respecting me?”
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lesson learned says:
Sky?
Now THAT is more than just amazing audacity!!!
LL
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skylar says:
Hi Lesson,
Audacity, yes. That is the word for them.
dinner time. gotta go.
((hugs))
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GoingThroughTheMotions says:
Skylar thanks – your comparison was spot on, amused me also – but without that trail of slime : )
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GoingThroughTheMotions says:
And Sky,
at the end, after my exP had smashed us all to smithereens, he had the gall to say he stopped loving me five years previously because he realized I was just using him for a paycheck.
I’m sure I don’t need to detail the lovefraud crowd the truth about the emotional/financial/professional abuse and neglect that we (the children and I) experienced.
But, a little tidibt about his statement, which I can even giggle about now…because if you don’t laugh, you cry….he brought upwards of 30k in debt to the entanglement, which of course, he explained was all the fault of his first wife’s drug addiction, while I brought an inheritance of $250,000k.
He is presently engaged to a woman who has never been married and whose parents are allowing them to live on the family’s country estate while they are living abroad. He knew her years ago, told me her family was rich, that they were indulging her little career because they knew she would never marry because she gave off an “asexual” vibe, and that one day she would return to the fold so the men in the family could look after her. I remember it still because it was such a bizarre way to speak about a new friend and co-worker. And his own family tells me that their courtship consisted mainly of online activites, and no more than 6 visits back and forth between the country where she was working, and the country where he lives, until she eventually transfered back home, presumably to be with him.
She should be warned, but of course she is under the spell and in any event, my first priority is to my children, so enraging him for her benefit is not an option.
I am saddened though that his family, who knows the truth, will allow this to continue. I think they just want rid of him.
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skylar says:
Going,
yes, I have so much I can use against my exP but… what a waste of my time and effort. If there was a way I could do it and not have to ever see or deal with him again, I would.
What I really would like is for him to remove the trojan horse he left in my family, married to my sister, who is also a spath. But really, what good would it do when my parents are N’s and my brother is a spath? The trojan fits right in.
I know what you mean about laughing so you don’t cry. They are comical when you don’t take it personally. LOL.
That woman your exP is with now, sounds like a real prize. She also sounds like she’ll end up dead soon after the wedding. It will be an accident on their honeymoon.
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GoingThroughTheMotions says:
Ooooh Skylar – how wicked. First I laughed, then I froze. He DID freak out when he left and I removed hm from the life insurance policy. He said if “If you die, I’ll be damned if I have to ask your family for the insurance money, you know, to take the kids to Florida or something, you know, to get them through the rough patch” (i.e. my death). This was two months after he left, two months during which time he allowed his own policy, the one for me and the kids, to bounce. I only knew this cos the broker called to ask me what was up. This was his most rageful tantrum up until that point and I slept on the couch with the lights on for four days. afterwards. Thx for the reminder!
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Eva says:
How can you know when you’ve encountered a sociopath?
When the sociopath has already fucked you badly or killed you.
I’ve just seen spoorloos (the vanishing 1988) and i’m traumatized. Poor guy found out too late…and the psycho even mentioned to him his “light” desorder of personality was in medical manuals under the name of sociopathy but the guy still thought he was dealing with some sort of person.
I’m Rex Hoffman and this is a bit wierd!
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Ox Drover says:
Going through the motions,
I am assuming you have kids with this person, and I would suggest you go to Dr. Leedom’s blogsite “Parenting the at risk child” (there’s a link here on blog rolls on LF) and get the support you need for parenting these kids with that monster for a father.
I know you can’t “will” your children at your death, but you can arrange that someone else have control over the finances of your children in the event something happens to you. Take care and glad you are here.
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GoingThroughTheMotions says:
Thank you Oxy, you have been a rock of support for two years now! Only recently healed enough to post without dissolving into nonsense. And sadly, I have become all too familiar with so much of the literature available, and still refer back to it consistently, including the blogsite you mentioned. My only saving grace has stemmed from my ex-spath’s own disorder – no real interest in the children beyond their contribution to his image, their entertainment value, and their usefulness as tools with which to threaten and intimidate me while working through the divorce process. He actually told me that he was leaving, and that I should take the kids away, and he would stay in the marital home with some “roomates”, and “from that extra income” he would pay “what I can, when I can”. He repeatedly told me he only wanted to see them “for like, two weeks a year, but not to be financially penalized if I can’t accommodate them due to, uh, my work schedule”. There is of course, so much more, but the upshot is, I have sole custody and have moved half way around the world – thanks to learning what he was, and how to “keep my cards close” because obviously the more you want something, the less they want you to have it – such exhausitng work to act all spathy! But it is so much better now, though I still never relax entirely of course, since legal agreements can always be re-opened. But I did manage to arrange it so that custody matters would be held in court here. He did demand that the children be remanded to him upon my death, but I think that was only because his lawyer insisted and he wanted her to think well of him. I hope that if something does happen to me, they will be old enough to have a say, and aware enough to make wise choices. I also have a specific non-binding clause in my will – but it is there just the same, and will hopefully put him off if only to avoid potential exposure and hassle. And there is no money in it for him either anymore, and that is iron-clad so…knock on wood. Now with the new woman in the pic, things feel unsettled again, as she is encouraging him to take advantage of the concessions I offered up in order to attain custody, such as unlimited phone calls etc. It feels to me like she is unwittingly prolonging the inevitable and for once, I pray for his own inconsistency to take over, and for this to be another phase that falls by the wayside. What a sad thing to hope for your children! But for the best – I know. Thank you Oxy.
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Ox Drover says:
Dear goingthroughthemotions,
Glad that you have the bases covered! Sometimes they will use the kids as a ruse to convince the new “person” in their life what great parents they are and what a witch you are, so hopefully this will be a passing phase as you said.
I”m glad that you are far away from him too. With you out of the picture in the unfortunate event of your death and NO money in it for him, I suspect your kids will be safe as he is not likely to get any “reward” out of the trouble just having them would cause.
I’m also glad that you are recovering enough to post here. Keep on reading, I learn something new almost every day that somehow helps me along, or I wouldn’t be here for over 3 years for sure. I’m glad that my blogging has been a benefit to you, I often wonder about the people out there who, like you, read but don’t post and wonder if they take something of value with them from the bloggers. Thank you for the validation that it does. (((hugs))) and God bless.
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GoingThroughTheMotions says:
And that reminds me of an oldie but goodie from Narnia…
“Women are Angels, and when someone breaks our wings, we simply continue to fly…on a broomstick. We’re flexible like that”.
White Witch character I think? I apologize to the men that are healing on Lovefraud – I’m sure the quotation can be applied to male witches in recovery too : )
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