How can you know when you’ve encountered a sociopath?
PDF “The motivation (for lying) is particularly baffling in endogenous deceit when the psychopath may appear to have everything he wants yet continues quite predictably to commence the manipulative cycle.” So says Dr. Reid Meloy in The Psychopathic Mind, p121.
“I don’t think they even eat an ice cream cone just for pleasure, I think they do everything for the effect it has, or the image it presents. It isn’t about what is REAL it is about what they can appear to be. To them, I think, if they can get others to believe it, then it becomes “reality” as far as they are concerned.” So says Ox Drover in a comment on this blog.
There is complete agreement about one thing regarding sociopaths, that is lying defines them. While studies show that many people lie daily, the lying behavior of sociopaths differs in both degree and kind from “normal” lying. Sociopaths do not just misrepresent the truth in small ways to spare someone’s feelings, avoid an argument or avoid trouble. Sociopaths misrepresent themselves and this misrepresentation extends to everyone they know. (For more advanced readers, there may not be much of a self there to misrepresent.)
You don’t need a checklist
So today I can tell you with confidence that you don’t need a checklist of symptoms or a forensic expert. If you are astounded by another person’s capacity to lie and misrepresent reality you can be sure you have encountered a sociopath.
I said a few weeks ago that I think Meloy’s book The psychopathic Mind is a great contribution to humanity. In this book, Meloy puts forth the idea that we can identify “psychopaths” by observing what he calls “the psychopathic process.” I searched the book for a precise definition of “the psychopathic process” and couldn’t find one but he implies that psychopathy is defined by the way a person interacts with others and with him/herself. He also says that it is possible to identify a “psychopath” by the way that person makes you feel. If you can look within yourself and monitor your own reactions you can learn to tell when you are face to face with “the psychopathic process.”
It doesn’t “work” on me anymore!
I have learned what it feels like to be “worked” and because I know what that feels like, “it” doesn’t work on me anymore. Sociopaths do not just lie, they work people. Their relationships are an occupation for them and it’s not just a job, it’s an adventure. They will even work when there is no apparent reason to. Why do they do this? They do this because there is nothing else they can do. They have little or no capacity to look within and find an inner compass of values and pleasures. As Ox Drover points out, the only real pleasure they have is their “work.”
Dr. Meloy gives a great example of a psychopath “at work” on page 138 when he discusses a professional who was “worked” by a psychopath. Knowing that he was going to be assigned a certain probation officer, the psychopath asked others who knew her about her interests. On discovering that the woman was interested in metaphysics and the writings of Alfred North Whitehead, the psychopath went and read the writings. He then gained the respect and admiration of the P.O. because he discussed these writings as if he too had a genuine interest in them that predated his knowledge of her.
Meloy says, “He does not just play the role, observing the limits of his character, but lives the part.” People are taken in by the psychopath’s work because in the moment the psychopath really thinks and feels the part. His part is real and yet also a deception.
You know you are being worked when the things you love/enjoy are mirrored in this way. You can tell the difference between this mirroring and real sharing by the extent to which the other person tries to build your enthusiasm and point to the apparent “twin-ship” you share. This mirroring and twin-ship can occur with big things as in the metaphysics example and it can occur with little things as in the ice cream example.
Now if you know what I am talking about, you have been worked; you are likely far along in the recovery process because you know what this feels like. If you have only a vague notion of what I am saying, Dr. Meloy has other words of wisdom for you.
In the psychopathic process there is a “complete disconnect between words and actions.” If you notice that a person’s actions point south and their words point north, you are dealing with a sociopath. To be concrete, if the person says they love you and either doesn’t spend much time with you, or repeatedly harms and stresses you, you are in the middle of a psychopathic process. But remember since the person “lives the part” at the moment he/she is with you and says “I love you” there is some vague reality to the statement (especially if the person has the disorder in a lesser form, see last week). To see the psychopathic process, you have to train yourself to pay attention to both a person’s words and to remember that person’s deeds at the same time.
If you do this you will be able to see the disconnect between words and deeds and the psychopathic process. If you begin to see the psychopathic process, it is very important that you not share this observation with the psychopath. He or she will not benefit from your feedback and may even become violent. At the moment you see the process, you must discipline yourself and disconnect. If you have problems with self-discipline you likely need a therapist to help you disentangle from the psychopathic process.
Recovery and discovery are about learning to pay attention. Pay attention to yourself and pay attention to what other people say and do. Most people need help in order to learn the skill of paying attention. That is the kind of help a good therapist can give you.
In the next few weeks we’ll talk more about the psychopathic process. Please feel free to share your experience of being worked or the disconnect between words and deeds.
written by Liane Leedom, M.D. • Permalink •
Ox Drover says:
Dear Sweet Gem!
I am so glad to hear your rant (above!) because it rings so GENUINELY that you are indeed getting it emotionally! I am so glad for you that you are walking the walk as well as talking the talk! I know it is hard girlfriend! You know I know!@ But you and I have both been BLESSED to have the Good Lord give us new and better children for those that we lost! Sometimes I feel and have felt like Job, but now the scabs are healed and I am restored and so are you! We are getting there Ms Gem. Give your david a lovely hug and a smooch for me and tell him what a special guy he is! He’s been there all the way for you!!!! Must prove what a lovely lass you are too for him to put up with the monsters your kids are! We’re blessed my dear!!! (((Hugs))))
(Report abusive comment)
geminigirl says:
Dearest Oxy, Thank you so much for these kind, sweet words! I feel I AM getting there, slowly! Im sure were cut from the same piece of cloth!{maybe scottish tartan?}
David says to give you a hug and a kiss back, and a thank you for your kind words.It aint easy but were gettin there!
Your right, I am so blessed, and so are you!I think without you and LF Id STILL be in that pea soup fog!!
Much Love, mama Gem.XXX
(Report abusive comment)
geminigirl says:
Fearless, Thank you too, sweetheart for your kind words. I dont know what Id do without Lovefraud, and the wonderful”old timers”{by that I dont mean old, but old in LF!!}Oxy, ErinB, hens,Silver,all of you!!
We are all making progress towards a spath-free life!!TOWANDA to us all!
And HUGS!!
Mama gem.XX
(Report abusive comment)
bluejay says:
ErinBrock,
I feel for your children, being embarrassed by their father’s antics – arrest, story in the paper, etc., being able to sympathize with your situation. One of my fears is that my h-spath will be arrested because of something stupid that he’s done, bringing more embarrassment (and shame) on his family. I don’t want my children to have to endure more chit, but they will (that’s a reality). Our kids don’t deserve to suffer because of one parent’s criminal bent. I have a friend (who would make an excellent therapist) who told me that her husband had a dysfunctional set of parents, gowing up to become a high achiever – he took his life lessons (chaotic childhood, basically raising himself and his sister) and decided how he wanted his life to be in adulthood – married, having a stable existence. She and her husband have a good marriage, four children, and he achieved what he wanted for himself, despite the difficult circumstances he faced growing up. I have hope for our children – that their suffering leads them to better, solid paths in life, making good decisions for themselves along life’s road.
(Report abusive comment)
bluejay says:
kalina,
What a beautiful name! I am married to a sociopath (but separated), realizing that the husband is one last fall. “The truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off” is a statement that I have read here – isn’t that the truth! Like OxDrover, you have had more than one sociopath to contend with over time. Sorry for this. This web site has been so helpful for me as I try to maneuver through this miserable life experience. It’s good to read what others have to say (coming from different vantage points), learning what needs to be learned. The trick is applying it all in one’s life. Take care.
(Report abusive comment)
fearlesspeace says:
“Recovery and discovery are about learning to pay attention. Pay attention to yourself and pay attention to what other people say and do.”–Dr. Leedom Good learning very helpful. i think to myself, “actions speak louder.” when i listened to the actions and muted the promises, i saw very clearly he did not care for me.
i feel like i have changed. i am no longer the sweet little nicey nice i have always been. i am okay with it its just a little sad. this weekend i started to feel sad about “the loss” of my husband (turned spath). i have been so tough…that’s what fear and anger do for me i guess. and i am experiencing some weakness. none that i would verbalize except here. i will NOT return to life in hell but i feel the loss again, a little more dull than when i first found out about the others. I feel like i just made progress through the deshaming stage and here i am back at stage one. fearless nonetheless!
(Report abusive comment)
Ox Drover says:
Dear Fearless,
Sweetie, you are going to go through the ups and downs and roller coasters of grief. Google “Elizabeth Kubler-Ross” who has some great information on GRIEF and it will help you get a handle on what “stages” you are going through. I’m glad you are here and learning along with the rest of us! (*((hugs))))))
(Report abusive comment)
AFoolinLove says:
Hello. I’m new to this site and I stumbled upon it while trying to figure out what kind of relationship it is I’m in, as well as why I’m feeling the way I’m feelings, towards it, him and myself.
I’d like to tell my story. I hope I’m not in the wrong area for this…
It started 8 years ago. I met a man who was younger than myself by a few years (normally this is something I would have never done, since I was never really into men who were younger than myself). I feel in love. Absolutely. He was everything I wanted. We talked about so much, our families, our childhood, what we wanted in life. We grew very close. However, just like I would have any other time, I kept my friends very close. I had mainly 1 best friend at that time. Who I worked with and would see on occasion. Mostly on weekends, however once in a while she would stop by with a coffee for me and we would chat a bit. Sometimes he would be there (he was always over mine and my parents house), sometimes he wouldn’t. I was just turning 21, and I do know how bad this sounds but he was just turning 18. I did ask him when we first started going out, if he would be ok with the fact that I’d be going to bars soon. He said that was fine, expected even. Well shortly after I started going to bars, which had been maybe 3-4 months into the relationship, he came over with a chart he made from a spreadsheet one day. This chart he prepared for me, showed me how much I’d see my friend at that time, and how much I was seeing him. Mind you, I worked with my friend 8 hours a day in an office. Of course we saw each other a bit more than usual. However, he ended the conversation by telling me to choose, him or her. I told him I loved her, he took that the wrong way. To this day he tells me I was IN LOVE with her. No. She was a friend. I had known her since the age of 4. We were like sisters. Of course…I chose her. And of course, he remained talking to me. We were no longer in a relationship though.
Years went by.. We were always off and on, and most of the time it was because of me that the relationship failed, so he said. It was because I wasn’t trustworthy. It was because sometimes I’d sleep out at my friends house. I understood his reasons, but I knew myself, and that it was not in me to cheat. He didn’t like my friend because she was just that. And in time, I did give up that friendship because I didn’t like how she was cheating her way through relationships and being dishonest.
All throughout the years, he remained friends with his ex. His first love. For some reason he thought and still does think that this should not bother me. It does. I feel it would with anyone else who has any feelings to be honest. They’ve gone on vacations out of the country before, while him and I were and were not trying to work things out. He constantly tells me there is nothing but friendship there, however he’s also told me that when they went out of the country the first time, they did end up sleeping together. And for a while after they had returned. So what is so different now right?
About a year ago we started living together. I made the stupid mistake of telling him that it was ok that he just lost his job. I’d take care of him for now. Very wrong thing to do. He took total advantage of that. He had always had jobs, so I didn’t think he’d really just sit there with friends over, playing video games, while I was working, paying the bills, the food, etc. But that is indeed what happened. When I expressed my concern, his words were… “well I thought you said you’d take care of me”. I was….ashamed, surprised, baffled.. I didn’t know what to make of that. He’s always had at least one job, sometimes even 2 or 3.
He’d get a job, one was overnight (so he said), and he’d come home at all different times. “oh they said I didn’t have to work tonight”. This, I never understood. Was he really going somewhere else instead, cause I know I never saw a dime of that money that he said I would. During this time, we had a puppy together. He had taken him in from his sister because he said she was no longer caring for him. So I said ok, we can take the puppy, as well as his cat. (I already had a cat, and let me tell you, when his cat made my cat bleed, badly! he’d laugh. That hurt).
Months later, after finding out he lied to me about his whereabouts. I kicked him out. He told me he was going to a bar. I was wrong maybe for doing this, but I snooped into his phone and saw it was actually a strip club that he went to. Normally, I would not mind this, he’s gone to others in the past. What bothered me is that I had not seen a dime from him, and now see that he is giving strippers his money instead. I didn’t like that. I told him. He turned it around on me saying I was wrong for snooping. Yes, I was, and admitted that. But it seems he doesn’t see he was also wrong. He continued to tell me I’m crazy and need help. Once I realized I do need help, either way, if it’s me or if it’s him, he then told me not to go to therapy. He was afraid I’d fall out of love with him.
A couple months later, he put that dog down. He said he had no choice. He had no home for him and nowhere to bring him. He told me every shelter turned him down. I’m sorry, but I do believe that a shelter cannot actually turn a dog down like that if brought in. I don’t know for sure, but I know that putting a dog down who is not even a year old,…is wrong. It’s something I’d never do. I once had to put my cat down due to cancer, and you know I still feel guitly years later.
And that’s something that had to be done. Well after he had done what he had, he called me, crying, saying he can’t live with what he’s done. He was at a bridge he told me. I of course, scared, got into my car to try to find him. It turned into a game though. The closer I’d get, the further he’d drive. Finally I got mad and decided to stop trying to find him. I sat in a parking lot in my car. And let me tell you, what I saw next I could not believe. After all the crying, telling me he couldn’t live with himself… He passed me, waved and smiled. I was on the phone with his mother, scared still, but after seeing this I told her..Uhm, ya know what, nevermind, your son is fine. And I had to hang up.
So recently, yes I kept coming back. And I guess in a way you can say I’m still here. Recently though, I snooped again. Horrible, I know this, but I found he had been flirting with his ex this whole time. So…. Yes, I’ve made a bad decision, however if I didn’t see that, I’d still be here trying to work things out, changing myself only it’s really like killing yourself slowly to make yourself into someone you’re not, someone to suit their needs. If I didn’t find this out, I’d still be trying and he’d still be flirting. Of course, it’s all on me again. He said MEN FLIRT…it’s what they do. Girls don’t. That’s a crock. I don’t buy that for one second. When you’re trying to work on a relationship, you shouldn’t be flirting with your ex, the one person who is threatening how I feel about us. But….maybe he’s right. Am I the psycho one? Am I crazy? Do I need help? I sometimes feel this way.
I’ve been to therapists, they’ve actually told me that from what it sounds like, I’m dating a sociopath. I didn’t want to believe them. So I stopped going.
Maybe he is still just in love with his ex? Maybe it’s actually me? I’m not sure. Does anyone have any relativity to any of this?
(Report abusive comment)
AFoolinLove says:
Ya know I should also state, he has belittled me so many times. Telling me I’d never amount to anything, that I’ll never have as good a job as he does, that I’ll never be satisfied. No matter how good a guy is to me that I’ll just never be happy. The thing that’s starting to kill me…is there are Many men who had been very good to me and I can’t find it in myself to love them. I always end up leaving to come back here, where I ultimately feel unwanted, unloved and unappreciated, as well as unrespected. I don’t understand how we can let ourselves keep coming back just to feel the same.
(Report abusive comment)
bluejay says:
AFoolinLove,
What you’re going through with this kid (he’s not a man) is not love. He sounds like a user, a major leech. There are better fish in the sea (I know you know this to be true). Please get away from this weasil and surround yourself with better people. From what you’ve said, the boy seems to be playing games with people in general, lying, being a very immature, self-centered person. The relationship that you have with him will never be satisfying – wait for a mature love to come along (with a mature man), refusing to settle for this kid. If you were my daughter, I would urge you to get him out of your life – he’s bad news.
(Report abusive comment)
kim frederick says:
Dear foolinlove, NO YOU’RE NOT CRAZY. NO IT’S NOT YOUR FAULT. I think you should take your therapists advise, and believe he is a sociopath. Stay away from him…total NC.
Take it one day at a time…admit to yourself that he won’t change and the relationship will never be good for you. Then focus your attention on you, healing and becoming stronger, wiser and better. Read as many articles in the archives, here, as you can. I know there’s one in there entitled something like,”You Didn’t Do It.” Then read about how they manipulate us with fear, obligation and guilt, how we get trauma bonded and why it’s so hard for us to kick ‘em to the curb. You might even consider making an appointment with that therapist if you think she can help you get rid of him.
I’m glad you found LF and I hope you will keep coming back. There is a lot of growth to be had here, and a lot of wise and supportive people.
(Report abusive comment)
AFoolinLove says:
Thank you Kim Frederick and Bluejay for the kind words and your replies.
I was actually thinking about going back to that therapist. Especially the first one since she seemed to have catch on so quickly. Maybe that was because I had given her some emails we had exchanged back and forth. That also kind of scared me I guess. Cause I see how I do sometime stoop down to his level at times during arguments.
I sometimes just catch myself wondering why it is that I’m still here. Why do I keep fighting to keep this relationship alive. Why do I keep trying and changing myself for him. Why do I keep hoping and waiting thinking maybe he will try just as hard as I do. I guess I already have my answer…it’s just up to me to accept it now. And not return.
Thank you again. I will definitely be a part of these boards for a while. I love reading all of your experiences as well as the articles. It definitely helps to know that you are not suffering alone through all of this.
(Report abusive comment)
Ox Drover says:
Dear a fool in love,
\
Sugar you are no fool, you are just in love, but you are in love with a PSYCHOPATH/SOCIOPATH, yes, go back to taht therapist because they get it, some therapists dont.
Also stay here and read the archives, start with “what is a socioopath” and read read read, just the articles at first. Get Dr. Robert Hare’s classic book on “Without Conscience” avialable here on LF.
The next thing is to lgo NO CONTACT with this man. NO texts, no calls, no e mails and don’t open the door. CUT HIM OUT OF YOUR LIFE, he is a CANCER to your soul and as long as you let hiim stay there he will eat your soul!
It will hurt to do the “surgery” of cutting him out of your life, but if he stays he will devour your soul your life your self respect and your happiness for your life time! God bless you. I’m glad you found this wonderful support group! Great people here!!!
(Report abusive comment)
AFoolinLove says:
The no contact rule is definitely the hardest. He will be going on vacation by the end of this week. Before he goes (most likely tonight) I will be getting a book back from him that I bought for both of us. It was to work on our relationship.
I was supposed to go on this trip with him. I backed out months ago when he told me weren’t working out. Of course he got totally pissed off that I’m not going, but it’s been this way for months. And he could have postponed. All he cares about is losing the money. I lost money from it also. I lost just about $900 for the plane ride (to Europe). I would have loved to go on that trip, but at the time I told him; we have no idea where we will be in months from now. If you decide to enter into a new relationship, that’s not right to the new person you are with, and the same for myself. (I guess he thinks it’s fine since the first time he went away like this, was with his ex, while we were on an OFF period, yet again). I won’t do that to someone though. I respect others and myself too much to hurt someone in that way. Granted, neither one of us are in a new relationship now, I still don’t think it’s the best idea to go so far away from home when you aren’t really getting along.
And the fact that I found him to be flirting with that same ex now… that crushes my heart. But after I get my book back, I will remain strong. I have to. For me.
I just can’t help but feel that when we are said and done with, he may fall for someone else, and they may actually work. I hate feeling as though this one guy is the only one I’ve ever loved this much. But I will love again.
Thank you all again so much!!
(Report abusive comment)
Ox Drover says:
Dear Foolinlove,
Unless that book is so expensive that you can’t replace it. FORGET IT! Going to see him to get it back is going to open a dialog that can only be painful–order a used copy of the book off line you can usually get them for less than half price even with shipping or just blow the book off all together.
From where I am now, I wouldn’t go see one of my Ps for a GOLD BAR that weighed 10 pounds. Either mail it to me, or dump it I don’t care, but I don’t want to see your face.
You are not being “unreasonable” by not wanting to see him.
YOu are not being unreasonable for not wanting to go on vacation with someone you think is not caring of you whether they are a psychopath or not doesn’t matter. This person is TOXIC to you.
Of course he will flirt with her, his ex, and the girl next to him on the plane and even if he were married to you, he would flirt and CHEAT! Dump the rube! You deserve better!
(Report abusive comment)
ErinBrock says:
Afoolin:
You don’t need contact to get a book back.
That’s what front doorsteps are for….or mail, or friends, or bookstores!
Honesty with ourselves is important to healing. Don’t make excuses why you have to see him one more time.
You’ve done well……continue down the ‘well’ path…..for your own sanity.
He’ll always be the same ass he was to you…..he’ll never have a good relationship….only a facade for a bit…..becuase he’ll never have a good relationship with HIMSELF!
That’s Key!
Stay NC….as hard as it is…..and when you get past this book hurdle…..look at how empowered you were and build on that.
(Report abusive comment)
adamsrib says:
I am so glad I found this site. I have been seeing a man that fits the profile as an N/P almost to a tee but with a few different traits that I am hoping someone can shed some light on.
First of all, I would like to say that I am so impressed with the support of the regulars on this site, You guys are AMAZING! I feel like I am in very good company.
The man I have been seeing is 20 years older than me. He was a teacher in my high school some 37 years ago and all of us girls had huge crushes on him. He was stunningly gorgeous (I am seeing a pattern in all the posts I have been reading). I have encountered him now all these years later at the gym where I work out regularly (a senior fitness center where in this town you can join at 50). The only reason I would even look his way is he is still a very handsome man for his age and in great physical shape and I still see him as the 35 year old foxy teacher in some ways. That persona has remained. It has taken about 8 months for us to finally get together. What I thought was an older man taking his time to get to know a much younger woman turns out to be withholding! Wow.
Though he shows classic examples of everything I am reading here, one thing has me very stumped. Instead of lovebombing me, he is doing the very opposite. Although he has been very interested in me all these months, he tends to be indifferent when we do spend time together. No compliments, no thank you’s when I cook for him, very few phone calls, and no real “dates”. No physical affection outside of sex. Most of our time together is spent at the gym. He will mention going out as an afterthought like “I was going to ask you to breakfast yesterday but the grandkids needed watching”. I know he is single because I have been to his house more than once and I have called him at home. He claims to be a loner and doesn’t really like to talk on the phone. He does not return calls and just blows people off. He tells the men at the gym that I am “his girl” and can be quite jealous of their attention. He is a Leo which in my opinion can compound the problem because he has a huge ego and needs constant ego stroking even though he gives nothing back in return (sorry if any of you are Leo’s).
I am stunned at how your posts seem to be describing him. When we finally were intimate it was like a switch went off when it was over. He was up and dressed and was showing me the door. It took months for this man to get me to his bedroom and then he is done. Weird. If it wasn’t for the Viagra, it would have been a dud, but he was amazing for a man his age. And he did not want to talk at all while in the moment. It was like he was by himself. I felt oddly not present. He lies a lot and says he is not on Viagra but that is BS.
At first I thought that maybe he was indifferent because of the age gap and did not want to come across as an old fool given the age difference. He plays mind games like a man half his age. It’s as if he hasn’t gotten the memo that he’s no longer the young stud he was and he can’t pull this crap on a younger woman like myself. Or can he?
Can anyone shed light on the indifference? I can understand it later in the game but this is early in the “relationship”. And there are other women in his life. HE says they are just friends and not intimate with any of them. BS!. It all adds up. I have been very confused. I am thankful that I am very healthy emotionally or I would have gotten much deeper in. I have been wanting a partner and I was waiting for that chemistry and I was surprised at the level of sparks between us. I never thought I would find that with a man so much older than me but it is like he is very sexually charged-like a cell phone. It is perplexing because I have turned down men closer to my age to be with him and he knows it. He parades around like a peacock with me as his “girl” but gives me absolutely nothing of what I want or need. I have initiated NC recently and I will certainly stay away from that one. Any clues? I am still confused about the hold he had on me.
Just last week I began to feel like something is not right. I even told a friend of mine it is like he has no feelings or emotions. I really don’t know how I ended up here just that I think God led me here so that I would see what I am in. I have recently left him a message that I need to take a break from our relationship and that I would not be in the gym at our regular time. He of course did not pick up but it went to VM. He did try to call a couple of times about 30 minutes later but did not leave a VM which is very typical of him. He acts like I don’t exist and initiates time together only when it is convenient for him. I hate to admit that at 52 I am the dreaded back burner girl with a man old enough to be my dad! Yikes how in the hell did I get to this place? HELP!!
(Report abusive comment)
geminigirl says:
Dear adamsrib,
{And by the by this is a nother lie! We women are not made out of a rib of Adam we are separately created beings! I used to belong to a fundamentalist Prayer group, and the Pastor told us that Eve was created from Adams rib! BULLDUST!! Another phoney myth from the control freaks who misinterpret religion for their own ends!
This guy is a spath and a control freak, without any doubt. As to why he behaves this way, this is what spaths do!As Oxy said once, its like asking a rattlesnake not to bite you, this is what rattlesnakes do! If you pet it and love it, it aint gonna grow fur and love you back likea Puppy!
They behave this way becaus they have 1} no conscience,2 no empathy,3} no remorse,lie all the time,they can fake love, but they cant feel it. With sex, you are no more than a vessel for his precious sperm, and how honoured you should be to contain it!{NOT!!} he might as well go wank.KICK HIM TO THE KERB!!! You deserve so much better!Love Mama Gem.
(Report abusive comment)
KatyDid says:
Dear ADAMSRIB,
He’s playing hard to get. Since no one has “got” him, then I guess all the women who tried have lost. Ask yourself “do you want to turn yourself into a psycho pretzel trying to win this sour grape?”
My spath was indifferent. He just didn’t show it until the end. Diconnection is normal for your guy. Don’t read anything more into it than that. Believe me, it there was more, you wouldn’t have to wonder.
Count yourself lucky and to get satisfaction, NO CONTACT. And mean it or as a wise person once said, fool me once, shame on me, fool me twice, and OX DROVER has a skillet for ya.
(Report abusive comment)
ErinBrock says:
Adamsrib;
Welcome welcome, keep on reading and learning…..you are the key the your answers.
you ask “he’s no longer the young stud he was and he can’t pull this crap on a younger woman like myself. Or can he?”
Uh….yeah he can…..IF YOU LET HIM!
Don’t beat yourself up…… let him go, create distance and keep the NC.
This is where the indifference may work in your favor…..he won’t be knocking down YOUR door.
Hope for that ending!
Again….welcome to LF. Glad to have you hear……
XXOO
EB
(Report abusive comment)
Ox Drover says:
Dear Adam’s rib,
Yea, “hard to get” LOL Yea, kick this creep to the curb, he’s playing the oldest game in the book! It’s just version 1.b of the “love bomb” called “Look ain’t I wonderful!”
My bet is that he was bonking some of your girlfriends back in high school, or shortly after they graduated.
Get one of your good looking male friends (even the borrowed husband of one of your GFs is okay, as it’s a short term “relationship”) to come into the Gym with you one day and pour over the guy and make a big scene in front of the old gezer! Show him who has CONTROL! LOL
Make some kind of conversation about how you guys are going out to some place that the OLD folks won’t be there, make sure the old coot hears your conversation!
See, ErinB, I can be “naughty” too! LOL
(Report abusive comment)
precambrian says:
“Though he shows classic examples of everything I am reading here, one thing has me very stumped. Instead of lovebombing me, he is doing the very opposite. ”
Here’s my guess. He doesn’t need you right now. He has someone else as his prime target. When they get used up, or start putting things together he will need someone new – then he’ll perk up and start love bombing you.
I’d bet money on it.
(Report abusive comment)
Ox Drover says:
Dear precambrian,
I am wondering how you chose your screen name! It is an unusual one here. If you don’t mind sharing!
Some names are alike “likes cats” (that’s not a real example) Or Northern man (that’s not a real one either) some people use a bird or a dogs name or a “Live to hope” or “I love my kids” something to tell about themselves or their hopes or their spirits, and yours was so different that It piqued my interest.
My name”Ox Drover” is that I am one of 5 women in the southern US that I know of who have trained and driven cattle (oxen) to work, the few others are men. Up north it isn’t unusual jfor girls to train and show working steers (oxen) in 4-H groups at fairs in Maine or New England. I trained them to work and pull wagons for our living history group here in Arkansas as it was something no one else was doing. Kids could see horses ;pull wagons any where but not oxen. But trained cattle are not covered by liability waivers as horses, mules and donkeys are, so I started using my donkeys which are covered. So if you get up under my donkey and it kicks you, not my responsibility, you should have had enough sense to get out of the way. Not so with the oxen.
(Report abusive comment)
ErinBrock says:
Naughty is GOOD!
(Report abusive comment)
kim frederick says:
Dear Adamsrib, here’s my two cents: He’s only capable of a certain level of intimacy, and that won’t change. When you approach him, he will retreat, until he has an intimacy quotiant he can deal with. (never enough for you). If you retreat, he will approach you, just enough to keep you locked into his managable level. His approach will flatter and reassure you, so you will re engage, at which point he will back off, repeat, repeat, repeat. No matter which part of the cycle you’re in, the intimacy level will level out to what he’s comfortable with, it will never rise above that level and stay there with any consistancy…You will always be dissatisfied, and confused and crazy, feel alternatively rejected and reassured, but never happy. He is an emotional cripple.
Don’t let yourself be trapped by your own desire to have some controll, here. That is an illusion, but I believe he will show more interest, once you retreat. Don’t let your ego sing for joy…it’s a trap. GET OUT GET OUT, GET OUT.
This has all the ear-marks of a roller coaster ride through hell!
I only say this cause I know the dynamic very well. Been through it over and over and over, ad nauseam.
Kind of like Oxy’s advise…but…it might back-fire, and make him pursue you, just prolonging the problem, keeping you locked in.
(Report abusive comment)
Rosa says:
FoolInLove:
Forget about the book.
The book is just an excuse to maintain contact with him, so don’t do that to yourself.
It’s like being addicted to a drug, and you want to go back for one more hit….do NOT do it!!
Let him have the book.
He needs it more than you do, although it sounds like he’ll just use it to improve his manipulative skills.
I have created a chart for you (I can’t believe he made you a chart LMAO
) ….anyway, MY chart shows that your happiness/emotional well-being is directly proportional to the amount of No Contact you are able to establish with this guy.
In other words, the longer you stay away from him, the happier you will become.
No Contact…..it’s like a spa treatment for the soul.
(Report abusive comment)
Rosa says:
.
(Report abusive comment)
adamsrib says:
I really appreciate the input. My screenname is Adamsrib not because I believe I, as a woman was created out of a man’s rib but because I could not find one that I liked that was not already taken! I was looking at a card from my BFF Adam ( right next to my computer monitor) and if he was not very married I would be his rib. But that’s another show. We have known each other since grade school and grew up together. We just did not marry each other. Darn!!:) But no affair there. He’s like a brother now.
I really am hearing what Kim F is saying. That is exactly what happens and I realize he is emotionally bankrupt. He had one of those doting mothers and because he was always a beautiful looking person-he grew up being fawned at constantly. Classic.
I agree that I am very lucky that he is indifferent otherwise he could be a stalker. Senior citizens can still pull a trigger! I am more concerned that he will lie about me to all of our friends. I do have very active social life at this senior fitness center. We all know each other. It is a real community. I feel as if I have to play nice and not say anything bad so I don’t set him off. I like the advice to not say a word other than we are not seeing each other anymore. Realistically, it is probable that many will think he is full of s#hit because I am so much younger than him and I am considered a catch (I don’t mean that in an arrogant way-I am a very nurturing person. I suspect this is why he zoomed in on me. He saw me coming. Mother Teresa).
I do believe that he really is into me but as Kim nailed it-he can only give according to his intimacy level. I needed confirmation on that. And yes, he is playing hard to get. Truth is I really don’t care enough to want to get back at him. Just not showing up at the gym at our regular time will be enough. His crew will be asking for me. He will have to lie and it may not be nice. Last week I did manage to talk to one of them and I said I was “finding my way out because he is jealous”. Men talk too, so they will know that I was the one that left the relationship. I did mange to stay one step ahead on that one.
My game plan is this: I also believe that he will come dragging his sorry ol azz back wanting to get me to come back. I will then tell him that he is not right for me. That I need a man who can be there for me emotionally and not with mind games. I feel it is necessary to make nice so he does not gaslight. I don’t think he is capable of lovebombing anyone but himself.
I can only thank God that I did not meet him when I was younger. There are girls I went to HS with at our gym and they remember him too. They still like him also but none has said that he was inappropriate but unless I have a rap sheet in front of me who knows? He has been divorced for decades. He says he has lived with women over the years but never wanted to re-marry. I am suspecting that he may be gay and I am the beard. Men in certain ethnic groups of certain generations do not come out. They cover up. Rosa: add this to your scenarios. If that’s the case then ewww I have slept with him.
Oh yeah, he smokes a lot of pot and drinks a lot of wine. He very well may be dazed and confused:):). A 70 year old pot head, wino. Great! Just reading this has helped me loads. What is wrong with us women??? Are we that desperate for a partner? That is all I have wanted. A decent partner that I find attractive. At 52 my pool of applicants is narrowing so if I am with an older man he better be hot. Just not weird!
Thanks guys. I will stay in touch to make sure I don’t cave. He does have some weird power over me.
OxDriver: What a WOMAN!! Wow, I admire you. I am in awe of that skillet of yours. I have one just don’t know how to use it yet. Comes from years of being a pacifist. I suppose it is possible to use it figuratively kinda like what you are suggesting about rubbing a younger man in his face. I am afraid that would only cause him to go postal. His ego is that huge.
(Report abusive comment)
adamsrib says:
Just re-reading my last post has me freaked out. I have to tell myself that if I could, I would do Sean Connary or James Brolin, maybe Clint Eastwood and definitely Robert Redford!:) If I don’t look at it like that, I will gross myself out.
Truth is: aside from his looks there is no light in his old soul. Why do I feel sorry and sad for him?
(Report abusive comment)
kim frederick says:
I stayed up late last night and watched the movie, “The Fabulious Baker Boys” with Machelle Pfieffer, Beau and Jeff bridges…it’s areally good movie, but so depressing. I woke up this AM thinking about it and decided that there is this motif of the commitment phobic male, who spends a life time running from love, meets this incredable woman, becomes involved against his better judgement, treats her like garbage, dumps her, realizws the error of his ways, because she is si incredable, and very, very special, and he seeks her out, confessing how wrong he was, and how sorry, and he will never, never be the same, and of course, she takes him back and they live happily ever after.
How many movies can you count that follow the same story plot? Could that be what’s wrong with us? Do we buy this as if it were reality? Does it mold and shape us to be good, and patient, tolerant victims?
I don’t know, but I do know that I am usually “in love” with the leading man , in these movies, and I admit that spartks fly for me a lot more with a man who is emotionally distant…sick. I don’t know why. It’s so self-defeating. There’s something so addictive about the come here-go away dynamic and I know I play a part in it…it’s all painfull, and at this point, I don’t even entertain the thought of dating…Don’t think I could stand it.
(Report abusive comment)
adamsrib says:
For foolinlove:
I gather you are still quite young. Take it from an older person. Don’t waste your youth and beauty on this guy. There are sooo many options for you at this stage in your life. I was married to an abuser for 10 years. I married him at 31. By the time I got out my youth and looks were gone. Can’t get those back I am afraid. Obviously you are a very caring person. There are so many guys out there for someone young like you. PLEASE, don’t settle for this loser. Take some time to get your head together. Kick his sorry azz out away from you and stay alone until you know what and who is good for you. Go back and read my posts. You don’t want that do you? You still have youth and that can get you a lot if you are smart and know how to use it. Educate yourself as much as you can and stay in therapy. Wait and the right guy will come along. Respect yourself and be strong!!! It’s hard being alone at Christmas, Valentine’s day etc. but it will pay off if you realize it’s all an illusion this romantic love thing. Wish I knew that at your age. Good luck sweetheart. {{{{{hugs}}}}}
(Report abusive comment)
adamsrib says:
Very well put Kim. Excellent post. I fall for the same crap. I do believe we are programmed for this from the crib with all the fairytale stuff about prince charming. The one leading man I relate to now in my older years is Rhett Butler: “Frankly my dear, I don’t give a damn”. Bam!
I’m slowly getting it into my thick 52 year old skull
(Report abusive comment)
kim frederick says:
Yeah, my thick skull will be 52 in the Spring of this year.
I got married at 17, divorced at 21, remarried at 23, divorced at 38, and hooked up w/ last spath at 40, got out of that at 47…I’m tired of self-centered men, and futile relationships that gruell on and on and on, and the unhappiness, and the hopelessness, and the yearning self-doubt and the relentless attempts to fix it, fix me, fix him….raising white flag, now…NO MORE FOR ME.
I love Art, Literature, my cat, and knitting, my G-kids, (really the only good thing that came out of my marriages, kids and G-kids) my solitude, and my peace of mind.
(Report abusive comment)
adamsrib says:
I hear ya girl. Why can’t we be happy with all the things you just mentioned? Family, our homes, solitude and yes peace of mind goes a long way. I am most happy when I am not dealing with a sh$t head guy. Hate to sound bitter but… When I see my married friends, couples at the mall, or out riding bikes, I wonder “why not me”? I only need to talk with them for awhile (like my BFF ) and know that being with a partner is not all that. We wish we were coupled and they wish they were single. Seems we are never happy with our lot in life. We have so much to offer. It helps to have a forum.
I am amazed at how many N/P’s there are out there. There must be something in our society creating this problem. We see it in our politicians, our sports figures, our teachers, everywhere! It can get to be a real bummer. I try to stay strong in my spirituality(not religion) and stay connected to the Source, the Universe, the Powers that be etc. I find my comfort in meditation. Funny, I thought my latest guy (the old fart S) was spiritual until I realized he is a self made man in love with his own creator.
(Report abusive comment)
creampuff says:
Hello friends……it’s been awhile……..I thought maybe posting on here was making me think about all this a little too much……do you all ever feel that way……like you just have to escape it sometimes? Some things never change however and sociopathic daughters are one of them…..had a little get together for the husband’s birthday yesterday and the Spath step daughter comes in sporting her HUGE breast implants (has had them done twice, to get bigger) wearing a tissue thin, skin tight top….I’m telling you, you could almost see her nipples through this thing…..I don’t judge anyone who wants to do that surgery……but it is so obvious that this little spath bought them as “tools” of her evil trade……I hate to go so “dark” here, but please help me…..I know I am not stupid……but I know in my heart of hearts that she has a “thing” for her Daddy…….he’s the one man she has not been able to “bag”and I think it drives her crazy……I think that is one reason she has always hated me so deeply, she sees me as an obstacle…..but she hugs him way too tight, way too long and gazes loningly into his eyes to the point I see him bobbin and weavin to stay out of her way…..boy was he squirming yesterday….!! I have NO one to talk to about this…if I were to ever mention my thougts about this to anyone I would be crucified to say the least……it is just such a bad place for my thoughts to go….I hate it, but having 30 years dealing with these girls has sharpened my senses so well, I just KNOW! She bought her Daddy a birthday card that was so sickenly sweet, I thought it was gonna stick to the table! She MADE him read it aloud……talk about squirming! You could tell he did not want to……she insisted….the whole time I could feel her looking at me for a reaction……I gave none! It went on and on and on about what a loving wonderful father he had always been, how he had made her who she was today (not a compliment) and she owed him everything…..how he supported her dreams and held her close when she needed it, and was able to let her go when she needed to grow up……blah……blah…….blah…….what makes me so stinkin’ mad is that I was the one that he dumped the crazy ass sociopath on to raise and he gets all the credit and I get NOTHING…….I am venting here big time……..I wish I never had to see her face again……..but I smile and act like I enjoyed their visit…..I think it is safer that way…..if I offered up one tiny crack in my armour she would charge me like the bull she is! For now I refuse to wear red!!! Any thoughts friends? Is this a common thing for female spaths to want to conquer their own fathers? He is in his late 50′s but still very attractive…..is it just a power thing? She looks at him sometimes like she could just devour him. It literally turns my stomach….now,that is just the one daughter …I have the bio daughter that is more dangerous even than this one……I’ve come to know there are different types of sociopaths……some are sneakier than others…..I won’t go into her latest antics tonight …one nut at a time…..Love you guys!!!
(Report abusive comment)
Ox Drover says:
Dear Cream puff,
Welcome back sweetie! I know sometimes it may seem like you obsess about it all but breaks are good and thinking about it and working on it is also good. So make some room in your life for both of those things.
To answer your question Cream Puff–yes, control, conquest, sex, lust, power, and your “intuition” is probably NOT off. The kind of person (male or female) who uses INAPPROPRIATE sexual “attraction” and behavior is usually more obvious than that, BUT if you were to “call them out” on it, of course they would have “plausible deniability” on it.
As long as you are around her, or married to her father, nothing is going to change, just more drama, Acts 1-10,000.
Venting is okay because actually there is nothing you can do about this situation except Leave or live with it. Your husband isn’t going to do anything, she isn’t going to change, so there you are. I wish I could tell you that there was “hope” but you would know I would be lying to you and you’d boink me with my OWN SKILLET! LOL
Hang around though, Creampuff, you can vent here all you want to! and we’ll all say AMEN!!!! ((((hugs))))
(Report abusive comment)
behind_blue_eyes says:
I was talking with a guy today with a classic sociopath story. In this case, he was left cold, owed money and HIV+. His sociopath BF is wanted in Canada for fraud and had fraudulent activities in England as well. The guy I was talking to said he new the sociopath for a year and everyone thought he was smart and successful.
I feel lucky in retrospected, being out only $200 or so and no HIV.
Every time I re-read articles here, I am amazed that even in my very short relationship, there were so many subtle sociopathic traits.
I want to reiterate that in some cases, the sociopath is not a business fraud. While my x-spath was HIV+, he did not expose me to HIV. He was however, an emotional fraud, a liar and a manipulator, all while maintaining his charming and unassuming exterior.
“His part is real and yet also a deception.”
(Report abusive comment)
ErinBrock says:
Creampuff:
It IS best you just stick to the perifrail…….you know…..it’s up to others to figure it out.
You can set your boundaries on what you WILL or WILLNOT do or participate in…..and just stay firm.
Her pops ain’t gonna ‘ax’ her out of his life….until she takes it too far….(for him)…not by your judgement.
So….if YOU maintain healthy boundaries for YOURSELF….no one can fault you for that.
It IS creepy flaunting new boobs to ANY family members.
I wouldn’t discuss this with hubby either…..it’s an observations of yours……and he would NEVER admit to it going on, because it’s societally wrong…..so you’d be viewed as jelouse and crazy……it’d backfire on you.
Keep quiet and speak loudly here with us……
Don’t be a stranger…..and don’t hold it in. We’re here darlen!
(Report abusive comment)
ErinBrock says:
BBE:
Are you doubting your experience? DON”T…it was YOURS….you don’t need to qualify or justify the pain and con you endured…..
We all have a story….none greater than the other.
(Report abusive comment)
behind_blue_eyes says:
ErinBrock;
Thanks. Actually, I like to be the constant reminder to myself that sociopaths need not be violent, criminal or otherwise maliciously overt. Some are “merely” emotional/relationship abusers, so much so that even a short-term interaction at the wrong time in a person’s life can be disastrous for the victim.
But they all are liars and manipulators.
When I re-read these articles or see a new posting, I always shake my head because I read a behavior, trait or action I observed.
“He does not just play the role, observing the limits of his character, but lives the part.”
My x-spath was playing the “innocent” role. I have mentioned how he walked out of a restaurant on me, insulted that I merely asked him back to my apartment and avoided any sexual discussion or even innuendo, while simultaneously maintaining a far more overt persona online: “hobbies include boys, a beer or two, and some fooling around…” His words.
But I saw something here today that just strikes me how far the manipulation and mirroring goes, which is at the root of why they are so destructive.
“You know you are being worked when the things you love/enjoy are mirrored in this way. You can tell the difference between this mirroring and real sharing by the extent to which the other person tries to build your enthusiasm and point to the apparent “twin-ship” you share. This mirroring and twin-ship can occur with big things as in the metaphysics example and it can occur with little things as in the ice cream example.”
The “big-thing” mirroring was my desire for a real, honest, mature relationship. But it is the little thing that is a better example of how stunningly accurate is the above description. The little thing was potato chips. He went as far as to bring me a bag of potato chips from England.
I was subject to so much subtle emotional abuse, of course in my mind due to something I did, I cannot imagine what it would be like in a long-term relationship with him. More important, I could imaging tolerating such behavior for long, now that I am healthy.
To that, from my recollection and his various online trails, he has not been in any realistic relationship in a long time. This makes me wonder if there exists a type of sociopath whose MO is purely very short-term relationships measured in months, due to either A) their own tendency or B) their utter coldness not tolerated by others?
(Report abusive comment)
Ox Drover says:
BBE,
Him becoming “righteously upset” because of something you said or did is A LIE IN ITSELF—you seem to be taking HIS WORD for why he became upset with you—DUH! You KNOW he is a LIAR and “the truth is not in him” so WHY for goodness sake are you accepting what he SAID was the reason he got upset as TRUTH?
See, we “fall into” accepting that ANYTHING they said is truth! LOL Actually I have done the SAME THING MYSELF BBE.
See what a mind twist they do to us?
Here you are months later trying to figure out WHAT YOU DID to make him so UNREASONABLY UPSET—the truth is BBE, NOTHING!~!!!! HE WAS LYING ABOUT THAT JUST LIKE HE LIED ABOUT EVERYTHING ELSE.
You keep talking about how the two of you never had sex, so he didn’t expose you to HIV—GREAT! I’m glad for YOU. But it was NOT because he was LOOKING OUT FOR YOU, for some reason he had some “game” going where he wanted you to persue him so he was PLAYIING COY and “righteous” but it was NEVER ABOUT YOU. IT WAS ALWAYS ABOUT HIM. He had no intention of sticking around anyway, it was just some scenario he wanted to “play” and for some reason you didn’t know the lines to your part in the play, but if you had “known your lines” he would have been quite happy to have sex, leave you with HIV and not look back.
BBE there was NOTHING REAL ABOUT HIM…NOTHING! HE WAS AND IS THE LIE. Just be GLAD you were nothing but a piece of meat and a game of pretend to him. I’m just glad you flunked the audition for that play! In fact, I’m glad we all flunked it sooner or later.. In your case though, SOONER is much much better!
(Report abusive comment)
adamsrib says:
This talk of HIV has me wanting to clarify something I said in one of my posts:
“I am suspecting that he may be gay and I am the beard. Men in certain ethnic groups of certain generations do not come out. They cover up. Rosa: add this to your scenarios. If that’s the case then ewww I have slept with him.
”
I want to clarify that I was referring to the idea of getting AIDs. I apologize if I am ignorant. I happen to think if I if a heterosexual woman sleeps with a closet homosexual she could get HIV and yeah that creeps me out. I am ashamed to admit that it was not always properly protected. I was too trusting. It was after the fact that I began to think that maybe he just doesn’t like women. Now, I am more inclined to think he is N/P. I will probably get my self tested though. How stupid can we be???
BBE you are so right when you say this:
“I like to be the constant reminder to myself that sociopaths need not be violent, criminal or otherwise maliciously overt. Some are “merely” emotional/relationship abusers, so much so that even a short-term interaction at the wrong time in a person’s life can be disastrous for the victim.”
So very right on. That is a perfect label for these guys. He is an emotional/relationship abuser. No wonder he is still alone after all these years. There is something to that saying “all the good ones are gone”. Thank you.
It will be a week Thursday of NC and I am feeling a “loss” of this person. I am mad at myself that I miss him. I went to the gym yesterday in the morning and felt sad that he was not there. I have to remember that I CHOSE to change the time to avoid him. I need to meditate more so I don’t cave.
Hope I didn’t offend anyone here.
(Report abusive comment)
adamsrib says:
BBE:
p.s.
“To that, from my recollection and his various online trails, he has not been in any realistic relationship in a long time. This makes me wonder if there exists a type of sociopath whose MO is purely very short-term relationships measured in months, due to either A) their own tendency or B) their utter coldness not tolerated by others?”
I have had THE EXACT SAME THOUGHT!! The shelf life of these people is not very long because really, who could tolerate the “utter coldness”? Very well put! I do believe that if this guy I know has a long-term somewhere, it is someone with a lot of money. That I would believe without a doubt.
(Report abusive comment)
behind_blue_eyes says:
OxDrover;
I thought that then but not now, as I realize it was all an act and a lie.
Until I accept that he is a sociopath nothing made sense, now everything makes sense because everything about him was sociopathic, albeit sometimes subtle.
However, in the moment we can interpret their words and actions quite different. He was playing “innocent” and I fell for it. In the moment, he played it very well, for me at that moment.
Today, for what I know, I would have walked outside and instead of apologizing, I would say something like “who are you trying to kid and what is really going on?” I would also take such an obvious play as a serious red flag.
Now, I am happy for both his online trail and Love Fraud. Without these, I might still be kicking myself for “moving too fast’ and losing somebody special.
Now, everything I know about him is a lie.
(Report abusive comment)
behind_blue_eyes says:
Adamsrib;
Even if the sociopath is not I closet gay, you still have the risk of HIV given their near universal promiscuity. Given this, anyone sexually involved with a sociopath should get an HIV test.
I am glad you are moving on and taking care of yourself such as going to the gym. I even used my experience to motivate in the gym. Given that my x-spath is such an envious yet unmotivated little shit, I would love for him to see me right now, 15 pounds of muscle more than when he knew me…
(Report abusive comment)
adamsrib says:
BBE:
I never thought of it that way. Please forgive my ignorance. You are right! I appreciate your kind words. There is nothing like looking your best when running into a former flame. Especially if that person was a jerk. Don’t let an idiot get you down, I’ll bet you look great!
About three years ago I met a man on match.com. He was one of those few genuine people you meet on there. He was the only one that was. The rest were not sincere. He was everything I wanted in a guy and we were getting along great. We had a lot in common and shared life’s values. Not long into the relationship I threw caution to the wind and went a little to far with him. We did not sleep together but it got pretty intense. The next morning he dumped me. He got freaked out. He did it in a nice way but it really hurt. My point is that I suffered feelings of regret over being too easy with him for a long time. After that I never could sleep with another man for fear that I would lose him. Some I did lose because I would not do it. Damned if I did damned if I didn’t. One day I got an email from him about something not related to our relationship-a group email. I asked him about the ending of our relationship and he said that it just did not feel right to him and that I should not settle for someone if it does not feel right to me. I was amazed that of all people, he helped me to see there was no need for regret. I follow his advice now and I am here at this site because what I have recently been involved with does not feel right for me. The Universe allowed these things to happen for my learning journey. I do believe that someday I will meet the right person. Don’t waste one more minute worrying about what the x-spath thinks of you. It’s what you think of him that counts for you. He was not right for you. Someday you will meet someone right.
(Report abusive comment)
bluejay says:
creampuff,
It’s good to see you posting again. I need to take a break from all of this too, getting sick of all the baloney that that we endure just by having a spath(s) in our lives. Anyway, I feel badly for you, having to participate in family gatherings and witnessing the disturbing behaviours by the spath step-daughter, not letting her realize (smart strategy on your end) that you’re onto her and her warped games. It’s hard on you, I know. Witnessing what you described would turn anyone’s stomach. Take care. Peace.
(Report abusive comment)
Ox Drover says:
Dear Adamsrib,
Actually, you should be glad he “dumped” you—and not blame yourself about this….if he treated you that way he wasn’t worth having anyway. HIS problem, not yours.
It isn’t about being “too easy” or “too stand offish” it is about sex being part of a RELATIONSHIP, not an end in itself. If sex is all someone is looking for there are people who will do it for $$$$, if you have a relationship with LOVE it doesn’t matter if the person is paralyzed from the neck down, you can still MAKE LOVE. (BTW, when I worked in spinal cord rehab, part of our jobs were to show people who were paralyzed from the neck down that they could still make love to their partner in a satisfying manner for them both!)
(Report abusive comment)
adamsrib says:
OxDrover,
Hey thanks for the support. Actually this may sound strange but I understand why he did it. He was looking for a long term and so was I. Neither one of us is very religious but we are both culturally Catholic. Men in my culture (the good ones)are careful of who they pick for a mate as far as morals. I tend to be naive when it comes to the dating game and did not know that I should have held out. I also tend to be more progressive and not get boxed in by cultural constraints. It was a learning experience for me. I don’t put the blame on him or me. It just happened. Maybe the word “dumped” was a bit strong. When he called me the next morning he told me as nicely as he could that we were not going to work as a long term couple.
I agree with you about sex vs. making love. I look at it as making love, unfortunately the men I meet tend to look at it as sex. Calling it “making love” too early in the relationship sends a guy packing (or sex does-sheesh!) Where I deviated is with the guy who ended it with me. This is why I felt the regret. Damned if I do damned if I don’t.
This whole dating game is sooo frustrating. I feel like a freak because I want a decent guy who believes in monogamy. All of those are married or in a committed relationship.. I want to give up. I joke with my friends that I would have to get one at the courthouse, the funeral parlor or steal one!! It seems so hopeless. Adam says to hang in there that there is someone for me. I tell him we will have to clone him! Good thing his wife and I are pals- she has a very good outlook on our friendship. She knows she has a very committed man as her husband.
(Report abusive comment)
adamsrib says:
OxDrover,
Wow how did you go from teaching paralyzed folks to function sexually to training ox teams? You are a fascinating lady!
(Report abusive comment)