When He’s Just A Bad Dude
PDF It’s easy to get obsessed with, fixated on, “labels” and diagnostic categories like sociopath, psychopath, malignant narcissist, narcissist, etc. To be sure, labels and diagnoses can be important and informative.
In the case of “sociopathic” individuals, for instance, we know that there’s no changing them; we know that there’s no real hope for their redemption; and so, if you’ve correctly identified a sociopathic type, you can know that it’s pointless, self-destructive to invest another minute of your time in him. And this is a good thing to know.
But it’s also the case, I’d suggest, that an overfocus on labels and diagnoses can sometimes be a distraction, a form of avoidance, sometimes of obsession, and, in some cases, a habitually poor use of one’s time.
Does it really matter, as several LoveFraud readers have pointed out in various posts over the months, what precise label—accurate or not—you affix to an individual when he’s proven to be emotionally unavailable, or a compulsive liar, or an abusive personality, or a chronically selfish, self-centered partner, or a chronic, comfortable manipulator and deceiver?
Does it really matter, in the end, what you call this? It seems to me that what’s suitable to call this, and perhaps all that’s necessary, sometimes, to call this, is–This is a bad dude for me. This is the wrong dude for me.
Sometimes this is the diagnosis that ultimately matters: Wrong dude for me, or Right dude for me.
Whether he’s a narcissist, sociopath, or neither (in a fullblown sense); whether he’s got another personality disorder, or a hybrid of personality disorders, or whether, again, he fails to meet the full criteria for any personality disorder, sometimes this isn’t the main issue.
Often, what matters most is what it is that you require in a partner, and whether he has the goods to deliver it. And once you establish that he lacks what you require—say, sufficient integrity, emotional generosity, dependability, you name it—then, as I suggest, you’ve nailed the really, and sometimes only, relevant diagnosis—the he’s wrong for me! diagnosis.
I understand that a community of people who’ve suffered some of the common indignities inflicted by exploitive personalities can offer one another invaluable support, and I surely don’t mean to devalue the fantastic healing power of this communal process.
But it’s also important to remember, going forward, that we, each of us, needs to take a good, long look in the mirror and take charge of the kind of relationships that dignify us. I maintain that, in a great many cases, when we’re honest with ourselves, we discover, in examining the history of our relationships, that we may have tolerated, overlooked, or denied behaviors and attitudes that, in retrospect, should have been unacceptable to us.
These may have been the behaviors and attitudes of a sociopath, or just a selfish, immature partner; a narcissist, or just an emotionally unavailable, detached boyfriend or girlfriend.
We may have invested a great deal of false, unrealistic hope in the possibility that this person would change; that we could somehow change this person; that this person would somehow, someday, “get it,” wake up, possibly “grow up,” realize and, finally, properly value,what we had to offer him (or her)!
But as so many of us know all too well, this can be a misguided fantasy that leads us into dangerous, compromising investments–investments which can devolve us into protracted, paralyzing resentment of the individual in whom we made this too-long, too-patient and too-compromising investment; and then get hung-up on eviscerating him for his deviance—when all along, maybe more obviously than we ever wanted to admit, we might have recognized that he was the wrong dude for me.
Again, I sincerely don’t mean to minimize the trauma arising from the violating—sometimes the shockingly violating behaviors—of those in whom we’ve invested our trust. And I particularly don’t mean to minimize the pain engendered from the chronically violating behaviors of serial expoiters.
But I do mean to question whether, sometimes, dwelling on any diagnostic cateory, including the sociopathic spectrum category, can distract us from a most important, and, ultimately, liberating achievement, which is to own that sometimes we end up making terrible choices of partners, regardless of their diagnoses—partners incapable of doing us justice, and capable all too often of doing us terrible injustice.
These are partners—whoever they are, and whatever drives their unacceptable behaviors—whom we want to be grateful to be rid of, and whose destructive qualities, in future relationships, we want to seize every opportunity to steer clear of.
(As usual, my use of male gender pronouns in this article is purely for convenience’s sake. Everything discussed in this article applies equally to female perpetrators of deception and exploitation. This article is copyrighted (c) 2010 by Steve Becker, LCSW.)
written by Steve Becker, LCSW • Permalink •
ifinallygotthelesson says:
Dear Spirit 40 (cont’d)
Oh, and Dr. Hare also says to watch the psychopaths hands!
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kim frederick says:
ifinallygotit, What does Dr. Hare say about their hands? Now you’ve got me curious.
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ifinallygotthelesson says:
Dear Not That Girl
Would like to share some hope with you. I have been completely no contact for 2 mos now. This time I am resolute.
What has helped me the most is writing down every incident where he put me in danger, this kept me from falling back into the dreamy stage, reading lv everyday, and reading a ton of books on the subject: Without Conscience, Snakes in Suits, to name but a few. Also have taken advantage of reading the copious articles on lf, and jotting down more books from lf’s recommended reading. Reading did it for me.
Hang in there, if I can do it anybody can.
All of above, though has helped me to remain in reality and no contact no matter what. Once I accepted that n/c was the only way for me to go, everything became easier.
My life gets much better and easier each day. Much peace to you-
I Finally Got…..
Notthatgirl says:
kim frederick–how long have you been away from him? what has helped you heal the most? I’d look up your previous comments but it seems you can’t do that on this site.
I took time off for three years from relationships. I then made two bad decisions back to freakin’ back. I was with my longtime friend turned ex-fiance from July 2006-December 2009, and then sociopath from January-August.
I thought he was my angel, the antithesis to the others. I thought he was so pure, trustworthy and innocent. I can never get it right…
I shouldn’t talk like that but it seems to be the reality.
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Spirit40 says:
Thanks I finally got the lesson: I already read a few books including Dr Hares.. The Sociopath next door was a better read for me . I also Just read Psychopaths by Blair and Blair and someone… cant remember who .. that one also very text book like and Its just more of the same but thanks for thinking of me… its ironic at the time I found out about the S/N/P I was taking abnormal psych my professor seemed a bit N himself and I did tell him what I was going through I think he thought I was nuts but anyhow He gave me two C’s in his psych classes I am an A/B student… I know I deserved at least a B he told me his ex wife says C’s get degree’s now I know why she was an ex wife LOL…. Its almost a year I am FREE my spirit is coming back! …
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jeannie812 says:
I think I get what Dr. Becker is saying. I have to take responsibility in this too. I do.
Jim showed red flags early on. But, he didn’t go away when I told him to. He took advantage of information I gave him. I told him how I was unwilling to go to police about anything because of my ex-boyfriends. The police had been called to my prior house so many times that the police were ready to put me in jail.
I wanted to have a fresh start with the law, in my newer location. Jim took advantage of that. He would barge in my door to scream at me. Or he would openly steal from me. He knew I wouldn’t call, cause I didn’t want to be the problem house in my new community.
Oh, remember that Jim took over my neighbor friends across the street? Well, when my neighbor lady was on vacation, Jim dropped his property in her garage, without her permission. She found this out after traveling home all day. She had to move his shit out of the way to park her vehicle in her garage.
I really believe that Jim is a sociopath, and not just a ‘bad boy’. He had a horrendous childhood.
His dad dropped Jim and his brothers off at campground to camp by themselves while they were still young children. Jim had no protection. Jim’s older brothers tied him up and put him in bathtub to let the faucet slowly drip on his forehead. He was brutalized by his dad and brutalized by his older brothers.
The stories Jim told me about his childhood were so bad that child protective services should have stepped in. But, this was the ’60′s.
I believe Jim is a sociopath. I believe that his mind was so screwed up from his totally fucked up childhood.
He does to every woman what his dad did to his mom.
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OxDrover says:
Jeannie,
Apparently your Jim got the worst of both worlds, the genetic and the environmental double whammy…but since you have apparently had experience with more than one psychopath, now you can recognize the RED FLAGS and RUN before you need to call the law. That is the purpose we are all working this hard to protect ourselves. Glad you are here, and glad you too are seeing the “light at the end of the tunnel” (((Hugs))))
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ErinBrock says:
One of the things the spath I was married to always said….or portrayed…..was childhood abuse….torture type stuff.
He had stories for everything.
His mother ‘abandoned’ him…..story told was he dropped him and brother off in a basket on the g.parents doorstep. (pretty dramatic….but who was I to question it).
Then…..the step mother…..the pure torture…..the pills, the pinto beans…..withholding the bathroom…..
he’d come in from playing and have to ask to go to bathroom…..smother would say no…..stand in the corner of kitchen…..he’d stand there until peed pants. THEN he said he’d get punished for peeing….
Punishment was he’d have to roll in his urine, as s.mother threw a bag a pinto beans across the linolium floor and he’d have to do laps on his knees across the pinto beans.
??????????
THIS WAS HIS STORY…..along with all the christmas presents being stolen by the s. mother…..and going days without food as punishment.?????
WELL>…….as we separated, his family, (who had been split off from us for years…..we wern’t allowed to communicate with them…..
Well….we got in touch….and I asked several family members about this abuse…..they were flabergasted….SHOCKED!
It never happened.
The s. mother said, she could have been a better mother to the boys, but NO physical abuse, spankings…..but NO PINTO BEANS.
The brother (who spath also claimed was abused) also said…..NO, none of that ever happened.
For 28 years I believed a ‘story’ of abuse….I ‘protected’ my kids from their grandparents….and never left them alone with them……because I thought they were abusive…..and no way would I put my kids in that situation.
It was all a lie!
I ‘bonded’ with spath…..on the abuse story.
I also had trauma in my childhood.
Kindred spirits….
He told me his ‘story’ after I shared mine with him…..at 13!
That story was always on my mind….with every bit of crap he dealt…I excused it with…..well….he’s trying…..
He only knows how to punish and lash out…..
SO WRONG!!!!
I’m wondering if this is common……or if childhood abuse is a ‘real’ story for most of them?
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silvermoon says:
EB,
I think the tough stuff is more likely on the side of they who believe without question than they who lie.
Your story says it all.
New motto: Trust, but verify.
We all lost years. WE don’t have to give up any more.
The common thread is that these bad dudes (and dudettes) told lies for the purpose of gaining sympathy and through it the power to exact abuse and insult.
Again and again, we see and hear that these knuckleheads take hard work and destroy it, good fortune and throw it away, love that is turned into rage for the betrayal.
Any outrageous story is an outrageous story. And an outrageous story sandwiched with charm, seduction and a whirlwind is gonna be bad news.
At least that is what I walk away with.
I think until we accept we were lied to and guessing that the relationship with a liar was an outcome of the kinds of deceptions in early childhood that trained acceptance of unacceptable behavior and extended our boundaries far enough for them to get a foothold in our psyche, was precedant to it, we can’t do the work to recapture our own lives.
And its not pretty stuff.
Trauma bonding with knuckleheads doesn’t fix anything. Even if for that little time when it is so, it makes us feel good.
Like a paper fire….
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one_step_at_a_time says:
EB – thanks for sharing this here. hadn’t heard the pity story of your spath before.
well, my ppath tells people that she was raped @ a young age by a group of ____(insert racial group here) in a _______(insert rural location here) OR under a _______(insert urban location here). now she does this both as ‘herself’ and her multitude of sps (sockpuppets)
now, as the fake boy:
raised by a sexually and physically abusive alcoholic father who pimped him out to his to pay drug and gambling debts, and who personally raped and beat him repeatedly
was cast out by said father
sexually used by his sister from the age of 6 or 8 or something, until 21 by which point it was participation(i might barf before i finish this list)
was pimped out to his later boy friends father
lived with a man fro 7 years in a strict 24/7 dom/sub relationship, who withheld medical care, who tortured him and almost killed him once.
was stalked online by his boy friend’s sister
was under threat of being used by his ex (dead) partners cronies, but was barely rescued
was abused in the name of the church
was locked up in a tiny crawlspace by dead ex as punishment for transgressions- for days at a time, denied his medication
…and more. of course, always more.
you know what i think? they pull this crap from movies, books and urban legends. they keep using WHATEVER WORKS. its the thing, always going for the ‘win.’
NEVER thought i would trauma bond to anyone ever again. sigh. if the little knucklehead didn’t laugh so much i don’t think i ever would have. THAT combo was just too much for me. if ‘he’ had been all dour it wouldn’t have worked on me. I was LOOKING for nobility and humour.
i am going to go scrub my mind out with lye now, and get ready for work.
it’s only been a year and a half of my life, and yet it has been so intense and difficult. 28 years – you must be SOME pissed.
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Hopeforjoy says:
One Step,
Sps, that’s pretty funny. How did he/she keep all that crap straight? Must have had some cheat sheets when doing the damage on the internet. Cliff notes, maybe note cards with all the ‘facts’ written on them. Those sps really messed with you in deep ways. How about you draw faces of all the dupes on your socks and put them in a big fire, roast some marshmallows and weiners and purge the sps from your life. Might be good for healing, heck, at this point I’d dance naked in the street if it would help me feel better.
EB,
Boy, he had some major issues. He is the lie, no doubt about it. Mine didn’t have abuse stories about his youth, his childhood was straight out of Mayberry. That’s what he likes to think. He can’t see any parts of his life as ‘imperfect’, sort of goes with the narcissism. In reality there were addiction issues in his family and an aloofness, kind of like exclusionary to certain people. If we had birthdays with my family as well as his, they wouldn’t talk to my family, or me. It was always the in-laws that I connected with. One brother has debiltating anxiety, one is an alcoholic, one married an alcoholic, sister married into alcoholism, other sister seems ok. Dad, probably an alcoholic at the end of his life. He sees his childhood through rose colored glasses.
I am amazed by your strength, he could have taken so much more from you EB, his lies could have been your demise but you prevailed. For 28 years you bought into a false reality and it probably contributed to your getting sick. Your strength is so admirable, you not only endured the brain washing, you back-spathed the spath! Very cool! It’s insidious, what they do. I am finally finding some of my inner strength and I hope to find that I have a backbone and it’s not made of rubber. You are inspiring!
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OxDrover says:
EB, When my P son got old enough to drive and go out with GFs and such he went to their homes and told such stories of abuse at his home and what a BEAST FROM HELL I was you just wouldn’t get any idea of how horrible I was to that poor baby. I actually had horns and a forked tail and not only that but I would dress up in a Nazi SS uniform and make him lick the kitchen floor clean It was soooo horrible. And for days I wouldn’t even let him sleep in a bed just on the floor with a blanket and all he had to eat was oatmeal. Poor baby.
Funny thing was, though we were not rich in cash, the neighborhood kids envied my kids because they each had their own 22 rifle, and a 410 shot gun each and a camping tent, and a horse (really cool thing) and we went campping in the national forests and parks and got to shoot. WOW!
That was before they were 11 and 12. Even after that age we still did some really cool things in gthe summer, like camping in national parks all summer. (cheap and great vacation)
However,, I did let my kids know that all the perks they got that their friends didn’t have were that the law ONLY required I feed and house and dress them. A blanket and a pillow qualified as a bed, and two sets of clothes from good will qualified as clothing, and oat meal qualified as food, so that was ALL the LAW required I gtive them, and EVERYTHING ELSE THEY HAD WAS GRAVY THAT I GAVE THEM BECAUSE I LOVED THEM, but if they would NOT COOPERATE WITH ME, we could go back to what the LAW REQUIRED and NO GRAVY.
Even as little as two years ago Patrick wrote to a priest friend of our family and told him that I had stopped giving him (P son) UNCONDITIONAL LOVE and that when he was a kid I had only given him a blanket and a pillow for a bed and two suits of clothes from good will and only fed him on oatmeal! LOL ROTFLMAO Therefore that was proof (to the priest I guess) that I was a bad Chrisitian and a bad mother. LOL
Hummmm, now let me see, does “unconditional love” mean I just have to keep on giving him what he wants no matter what he does to me? Funny, but I never found that scripture in the Bible and neither has my priest friend. Guess the P son’s Bible must have a page or two mine doesn’t. LOL
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ErinBrock says:
Oxy…..their bibles ALWAYS have pages others don’t!!!!
BTW….you sound as horrid as my MIL!!!
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OxDrover says:
EB, I am WORSE than the wicked step mothers in all the fairy tales, even the one who tried to poison Snow White, or the one who poisoned the spindle for Sleeping beauity to kill her. I am the wicked witch of the North, South, EastAnd west. I am the WORST. Hey I called the cops on my own son just cause he stole $100K of computers out of our friend’s business and shut it down for god knows how long.
Funny thing was, our friend later tried to COMFORT US (my husband and me) to keep us from feeling guilty that our son had so ripped him off. He wasn’t even mad at our son. Looking back on that night, for years I wanted to crawl under the pavement. What a friend and I was so embarrassed I wanted to die.
He really is a great friend. Don’t have many of those.
Yea, Son P can go through the Bible and pick out my sins, but never seems to get the part where it says “thou shalt not kill’ or “thou shalt not bear false witness”—-oh, well. Maybe I’ll buy him a new Bible for Christmas.
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kim frederick says:
Not a good move, Oxy. He will just quote a bunch of scriptures at you implying that you’re bad, bad, bad! Don’t give him that ammunition.
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kim frederick says:
This song is so sad…but I sure recognize the feeling.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....re=related
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OxDrover says:
Actually, that was a joke, because he can ALMOST quote the Bible from memory! No kidding! Makes me want to puke though. Oh, well, Kimmie, SATAN himself quoted scripture to Jesus, so anyone can quote it, it is living it that is hard.
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jeannie812 says:
Thank you for the kind postings. I think I am getting the hang of retrieving my postings a little better.
I do believe that Jim really had a horrific childhood. Cause I met his dad.
His dad also ‘slums’ his house just like Jim, and his dad has the same ‘self importance’. And Jim’s dad also gains favors from people through promising false promises. Jim like his dad is articulate and well read, high IQ.
So I believe Jim that his childhood was the worst of it’s kind.
But, from there. Jim swears he was ‘switched at birth’. He will aggressively go at anyone who points out he is just like his dad.
Oh, and one more thing. In my earlier post I wrote how Jim dumped his cargo off on my neighbor lady across the street. He dumped his cargo in her garage without her permission. (so she would have to move it to get her vehicle in her garage)
I got feedback from my sister and a few other people. They said Jim is looking to ‘service my neighbor lady’.
I pointed this out to her tonight and she denied it. But, then she admitted that he asked for a home cooked meal in addition to the gas money she paid him to run a favor.
Just like my sister said he would do.
Jim can keep surveillance on me while he is with my neighbor lady across the street. Have his cake and eat it too.
The biggest pisser of it is that he makes sure he picks friends that won’t date his ex’s.
Bet that is all a part of Jim’s big picture.
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ErinBrock says:
Jeannie;
Ha….spath did the same thing…..I have a rental and he smoozed the neighbor lady with drugs and i’m sure sex……he had her conned!
He stalked me from her deck. Even when the police were with me….he was up on her deck snickering.
The restraining order specifically stated 350 yards from my rental also…..
He was about 30 feet.
The glory was…..she saw through him eventually. Her life got complicated and peeps in her life died and he still insisted on her ‘covering’ and giving him time and energy with the DA…..she dropped out as he didn’t recipricate.
My son saw her daughter at youth group about a year ago….the d said….OMG…..that’s your dad….MY MOM HATES HIM!
Pretty funny.
Yeah…..just wait……he’ll expose himself to all…..you don’t even have to date his friends!
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jeannie812 says:
Thank you Erin,
I wouldn’t want to date Jim’s friends. They are just like him. They went to the same school.
Isn’t it such a pisser that people will allow this guy to stalk you from their premises?
I don’t think my neighbor lady will ever get it. She has already ‘explained away’ Jim’s behavior.
She told me I’m wrong when I said Jim is controlling. She said he is not controlling. He just likes everything his way. He is not abusive. He just gets mad when things don’t go his way. Then she’d tell me that me and Jim are ‘fire and gasoline’, and we need to learn to get along. (I was blamed as the trigger for Jim’s bad temper.) She also said we need to put the past behind us. (she wouldn’t listen that Jim’s past behavior continues into the present)
Well, maybe neighbor lady needs to experience the ‘Jim experience’.
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Jan2n2 says:
Great Article!
I been visiting Lovefraud for well over a year now. It helped to get through some really tough times. Mainly because it let me know that I was not alone (that there were so many other people out there that had dealt with an evil partner as well).
I continue to get the latest e-mails each week, but only take a peak at them when I have the time and am in the mood. Believe me, it is NOT a reflection of the site or what others have to say.
It is because I have learned so much and am NO LONGER focusing on the hurt and pain. I am truly so happy now. I have gotten rid of the sociopath in my life and have gotten over the hurt. I survived! And more importantly, I have stopped dwelling on the fact that I should have seen through him a lot sooner than I did.
It’s such a wonderful feeling when it doesn’t matter anymore. I rarely think about “him” or “that time of my life”. I couldn’t care less about any of it, nor do I want to waste another minute on it.
So now, I’ve been concentrating on myself. Enjoying my life. Doing things that I’ve always wanted to do. I have found “myself” again! Yay!
I will always be thankful for the people here that have helped me to get to where I am today. For all those who are still in the midst of the pain and confusion…..hang tight….and find that spirit within yourself to move on and never look back. It does get better, if you let it!
And after all is said and done, you will be able to spot the “sociopath” or “wrong guy” in a heartbeat! When I do, I chuckle to myself, because now I know better. Of course I wish I knew better back then, but I didn’t. So if it ever comes up into to my mind, I consider it a learning experience. One learned the hard way. Even so, don’t let your devastating experience define who you are!
And I know he didn’t deserve to ever have a wife like me. I am whole and happy now. I’m sure he’s not, because he will always be searching for that “someone” to manipulate to help him feel whole. He will be living his life of internalized torment of constantly having to play his sick game. Not me, I left the game, took my ball and went home to peace and contentment.
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OxDrover says:
Dear Jan2n2–thanks for the check in and for letting us know that LF helped you and that you have moved on. You might also send Donna an e mail as well! Good luck ikn your new life!
Dear Jeanine,
I would suggest that you go NC with your neighbor lady as well. Put up black out curtains on the windows on that side of your house, and just pretend she doesn’t exist. I am sure she most likely funnels any information she gets about you to HIM so just make sure the information flow is cut off. When he isn’t getting information from her, he will shortly disappear from her house.
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jeannie812 says:
Oxdrover
I put the ‘zero contact’ on my neighbor lady and when I reconnected with her I found out this other stuff about Jim.
Yes, I too think it is best to separate myself until he goes away.
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OxDrover says:
It is amazing what the stalkers will do to try and obtain information about us and what we are doing/thinking.
NO information goes along with NO CONTACT I think.
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jeannie812 says:
Well, I just want this one plan with neighbor lady this weekend. To go to the chic-nik fest. Roasted chicken and live bands. And, then I can hide out.
I gotta have some kind of social life this summer or I will be the frozen dead crazy-eyed psycho found in spring.
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ErinBrock says:
Just a quick pop in ……
I’ve got a busy weekend……ya’ll have a wonderful LABOR DAY!!!!!
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shabbychic says:
EB, thanks for the update, he is an idiot!!!
I’m sure you can find a great big cog to throw in that wheel!
You are an inspiration!!
Have a great weekend!
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ErinBrock says:
Chic…..
Cog in hand…..ready….aim…….baM!
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Vision says:
Hi All, I have been away but still reading when I can. I just have been busy with getting on with my life which has been so much better, now that I have kept with this site. If you recall a bit, I got out of a bad relationship….BAD….see, I used that word BAD…..Oxy is correct about labels. ……………..What about THE GOOD, THE BAD, AND THE UGLY?……………..In the movie, we might say the three outlaws are PS’s. But one is “GOOD” and not so BAD, the one is BAD and he is the worst, and the other one is “UGLY” but not too BAD………I throw out BAD meat….I already know it is rotten…..BAD is simply BAD…..GOOD is simply GOOD. If we keep things simple, KISS, then I like it’s uncomplicated label of BAD GUY!!!!
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shabbychic says:
Hi Vision, nice to see you, I am glad you have been busy getting on with your life!!! That is great! Sometimes I feel stuck, and this week I have been feeling that way, so hopefully next week will be better!
Did you read the article Dr. Leedom recently posted about psychopathic levels being on a spectrum? I found it very interesting, kind of could explain the good, bad & ugly!
Keep in touch, it’s good to hear people are doing well !!
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Vision says:
Thanks Shabbychic! Yes I did read it and yes it is a great article! I might comment on that post too. In the movie, they are all ps’s. So although on different levels, still BAD…..I was trying to point out how it does explain good,bad and ugly….maybe I wasn’t too clear on that…….at any rate, I intend to stay clear of any BAD….LOL
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lesson learned says:
Petitie
Thanks for bringing this article to my attention.
LL
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silvermoon says:
Who cares what you call it? Well, when its a bad dude (or dudette) it can be bad. And the hell of it is, you won’t always know how bad until the time it takes to do all the homework has passed and then someone.
Its all fun and games until the Feds show up!
Murder, Arson, Fraud and Bigamy are not to be taken lightly!
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one/joy_step_at_a_time says:
Silver – i remembered the scenario of his exit as soon as i read, ‘Its all fun and games until the Feds show up!’
that moment when a sense of love and safety turns to confusion is stunning. literally.
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silvermoon says:
It turns out to be all about context. If you don’t know someone in a social context that includes friends and family and a wide range of associates; you don’t know them.
And it is a sorry state of affairs, but everyone needs to be reference able.
Integrity has always been a big thing with me, and now, more than ever.
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Ox Drover says:
Silver,
“everyone needs to be referencable” AMEN Sista!!!!!!
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FightAnotherDay says:
Hi everyone,
I am happy to say that I have made some emotional leaps and bounds recently. My faith reminds me that God can heal what no man can, but I also feel that the EMDR therapy that I have begun doing consistently has helped, as has my promise to never read an e-mail from Jerkface more than once.
Just to update you; Jerkface is taking our 2.5 yr. old son to Puerto Rico for 4 days and 4 nights with 2 5 hour flights and one 2 hour lay-over. (doesn’t sound kid friendly).
Advice please:
Our son “Jr.” has told me he is getting his hair cut before they go one vacation.
We had “agreed” in previous e-mail correspondence to share this responsibility and therefore communicate about them.
I don’t want Jerkface going and scalping him ESPECIALLY since they will be in the sun. I know if I tell him not to, he WILL.
So far I have gotten the following advice:
a) Don’t say anything and pack body/scalp Sunblock.
b) Tell him I thought I would take Jr. to get a trim this weekend before vacation.
Thank you.
FAD
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ErinBrock says:
Beat him to the punch……take Jr to the barbers and let HIM choose his haircut.
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FightAnotherDay says:
EB.
Yes!
But we have already agreed to communicate, so best I can do is let him know I was planning/considering it.
No?
PS I know he won’t communicate as promised, but I will not stoop (or rather lie down) to his level.
Thanks : )
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Ox Drover says:
Dear FAD,
I know how hard you have tried to be “fair” with this jerkface, and to take care of your son in spite of him…and you have no idea how glad it makes me to hear you say the therapy is helping you take back control of your emotions and your life! TOWANDA!!!!!!
You are so right, God can heal what no man can!!!! I can hear the strength in your post and you know what, jerkface and his bimbo will be the ones to have to “enjoy” a cranky 2 year old on the flights and the lay overs. Sure, the kid won’t have a great time either, but it won’t kill him to be cranky and you know what else, it won’t endear daddy-o to him either.
Yea, I say take the kid and get his hair cut first and then AFTER THE FACT tell daddy o you did it. Maybe get the kid a mo-hawk (remember it isn’t a tattoo!) LOL That ought to make their vacation pix memorable! LOL (((hugs))) Love Oxy
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FightAnotherDay says:
Oxy!
Yay! Mohawk! S
Should I pack a Barbie with a mullet!
<3 FAD
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Ox Drover says:
Yea, as “macho” as daddy-o is, I think you do need to get junior some dolls–both male and female. I think Ken and Barbie would be great! That ought to just frost daddy’s cookies to have junior playing with DOLLS! LOL Gosh I am EVILLLLLLLLL!!!! BOINK!!!! me over the head! LOL
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Ox Drover says:
YOu know, come to think of it, you could actually do some good role playing play with junior with a play house and some Ken and Barbie dolls…and I have no doubt that at his young age, Junior senses the tension between the two but doesn’t know exactly what to make of it or how to express it.
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FightAnotherDay says:
Yes. Jr. has expressed even through Thomas the Train and Percy that daddy spanks him and calls him a bad boy when he pees his pants!
This I hear while he is role-playing in the car seat.
Eye-opening.
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skylar says:
FAD,
Sorry that jerk is taking your son, but then you knew he would do whatever you tell him not to.
Take pictures of your son before he goes. Just in case.
You never know that you might have to verify whether he had marks on him or what his hair looked like or whatever. Take a picture of them together as they leave.
I wouldn’t do the mohawk because it makes you look as bad as him and he could use it against you. Remember to always look like the ADULT in this relationshit.
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ErinBrock says:
how about….you cut it one time, dad cuts it the next……and leave it at that.
If Jr’s going to be gone a bit on vacation, and you don’t like his cut…..at least you don’t have to see it for the first week…….
and it has a chance to grow out a bit.
He’s using the hair as a power struggle…..I’d just back off that one……and if you can’t back off…..step up the power and do it before him.
And just know….JR will never have a chance at long hair.
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FightAnotherDay says:
EB,
The more I think about it, the more I think I’ll let it be.
After this one I’ll propose taking turns. At least then I can let it grow out before it’s my turn. Good thing is, I got over the long hair. I actually like it short. Ironically, it has grown on me. LOL. No shorter than and inch though.
Skylar, I always take pictures. It’s said cuz Jr totally gets it. I try to make it quick as possible and take most while he’s in the tub.
Relationshit. Ha ha!
Good night girls.
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Ox Drover says:
I think you should divide the kid, one of you cuts the LEFT SIDE of his head and the other the RIGHT side! Solomon had it right, just divide the kid! For hair cuts anyway! LOL Or if you disagreed on how to dress him you could divide him top and bottom or left and right, but that would mean sewing the items together. LOL Oh, my, as Hens says! I’m getting silly now!
Can’t you just see junior with a mullet on one side and the other side shaved! LOL
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ErinBrock says:
Oxy…..your SCARING ME!
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kim frederick says:
OMG. It’s still about a hair cut? It’s not about a hair cut, ok?
It’s about being Alpha. Having dominance, power and control. I think you need to admit this to yourself, and recognize that you are a part of the dynamic.
Either give up and let jerkface cut the kids hair anyway he wants to….and live in relative peace, or take the kid and have his head shaved (yes, You’ll need sun screen) and when jerk face comes to pick him up….smile, smile smile. If you take control, and happily do what jerkface has been doing to jerk your chain, jerkface wont do it anymore….jerkface will realize it doesn’t work anymore. You get it. It’s not about a hair-cut. It’s about dominance. Of course, then he will change his tact and it will be what brand of peanut butter you will feed the kid. You want Jiff, and he wants Skippy.
Sorry. I’m being blunt, here. I know what this feels like, it sucks. But really, there’s nothing you can do to change Jerkface. All you can do is find a way to live in relative peace. The more you let it eat at you the furthar you are from your goal.
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silvermoon says:
You know, I used to think that there was a dreamy, spiritual way to release the relationship with a disordered person.
Since then a lot of time has passed and I’ve “come to” over having been in love with the image he presented.
Since then I have found out the truth. The man is a killer and an arsonist and he is flat out dangerous and unpredictable.
I hope that no one else will share my experience of discovery. And at the same time, the cold reality of dealing with these disordered is that there is no ongoing apology we can make for them. There is no redeeming virtue or quality about the lying and advantage taken in any relationship with them.
It does take time to get very clear. And to get past the way we once felt and what we believed. Its all part of recovering from he betrayal.
And it is a betrayal. Every time.
No matter who they were to any of us.
There is, to my mind mind now, only one way to deal with them and that is to rise up above it. Take control of your life.
Accept what you can’t control right now and then position to get back the loose ends over time.
The net effect has to be run’em off and keep them at bay. And that means for ever.
You can’t negotiate to advantage. There isn’t any compromise. Its not about being angry for an extended period of time. Its about making them GONE.
Its about making ourselves and our children SAFE and WHOLE. Its not about small issues with the disordered still involved. Its about making them a non issue.
Don’t forget to see the forest and not just the trees………..
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