LETTERS TO LOVEFRAUD: Delete yourself from the lie
PDF A few weeks ago, Lovefraud published a letter from “Kay” —This was all about him and all about what he needed. Kay has written again, with Part 2 of her story.
It’s Kay, I am back with more memories I uncovered which were hidden in my subconscious about this sociopath. I hope this helps Lovefraud readers once again. I have taken the time to re-read some of his emails, all of them actually, trying to piece together an otherwise really, really Long Lie which consumed one-and-a-half years of my life.
Here is one of his emails where he LIES about everything he feels… WARNING — There are TRIGGERS here. I am sure you some of you have heard some or all of this before….
Like I told you the other day I don’t know what it is about you that drives me crazy.. And I don’t want to know.. I just never want it to end.. I love the way you make me feel.. You bring happiness to my life and peace to my soul.. In you I have found my destiny.. My joy.. My love of my life… My bestfriend.. My lover.. My everything.. Your love makes me feel like I’m on top of the world… You are like a drug to me… I can’t get enough of you and your love… I now understand why you sometimes acted the way you did with me.. Baby I am sorry from the bottom of my heart.. That I did that to us.. I will never take you for granted ever again.. Your my world.. Your my everything… And I live you with all my heart… Your an amazing woman and mother… And you’ll be an amazing wife… And I want to be everything that you need and want and desire in your life for ever and ever… I wouldn’t change anything in my life because it has lead me to you…
I love you baby…
Please note — ALL THE ABOVE IS A LIE. There was no veracity to anything said in the above e-mail to me. This was his way of “voicing” what he knew I wanted to hear. I was never his best friend, the love of his life, he apologizes only to do it again, he says he will never take me for granted, he left me three weeks after this email was written. He left me once his ex-wife started to suspect something was going on. He quickly flew the coop. He had no intentions of staying with me ever. I was a pawn in his chess game. Only I was smarter than he counted on. I called him on it.
It has come to surface that he was, in fact, leading his ex-wife and me on at the same time. One of my friends casually drove by his home only to see his former wife’s car there just one week after our relationship was over. She was warned. We took the time to warn her. Anonymously, but we did. She is well aware of this behavior and continues to return to this relationship. He is her problem now. I have moved on but continue to heal from this lie. It was a really long lie that I believed. The whole relationship was a lie. I have always taken great pride in my intelligence but I was fooled.
The longer you stay, the longer the lie lives. Delete yourself from the lie.
I share this with you because strength comes with knowledge of the damage these sociopaths can cause. We believe the lies. I believed everything he said to me. Everything.
written by Lovefraud Reader • Permalink •
behind_blue_eyes says:
Bulletproof;
I never said the guy in j4 andj6 is the same. They are not. j3,4,5 is me, j1,j2,j6 is Jon. The reason why I posted these pics was to illustrate a fundamental problem I had — him (John) and me (Jon) are very similar looking, at least the current me, and the Jon of j2 and j6.
I can throw out pictures and emails, I cannot stop looking in the mirror or a reflection in the window and often I see the Jon of j2 and j6.
This resemblance goes deeper than looks. We share the same interests, desires and certain issues. Even the “boy” thing. Jon wants people to view him as a boy, yet he is hardly such anymore. People refer to me as “boy” all the time and I am offended by it.
I am sorry about the “willie” story but I put it in to also demonstrate how bizarre this whole thing was and that bizarreness was another reason why I still have problems letting go. From Jon’s stupid amateur porn video, I constructed an image of the kind of guy I want to meet, the normal sort of guy next door, nothing special in body and physical attributes, just an attractive face. To then meet this guy in person, 9 months later???
But that is part of being involved with a sociopath. Bizarre things happen. Normal guys next door don’t post videos of themselves on Xtube. They also don’t leave easily followed online trails to some very disturbing stuff.
Jon is the ultimate wolf in sheep’s clothing. Funny, if I had come across him online I would have skipped right over, because online its pretty clear that he is shallow, partying focused with a single attraction to very young guys. I guess I should be flattered that he pursued me.
He is the ultimate predator, with slightly different profiles (names, birthdays, details) on virtually every major gay online site and at least a couple of mainstream ones too. One of his gay profiles was banned too, for lord knows what. To think that in person he presents himself likable enough to bring home to Mom is scary, given the possible places his hands might have been the night before.
I posted a lot of very personal stuff because I had a serious slide back into depression during the month of July. It was a reminder of how gloomy things can get for me and why I am doing everything possible to avoid ever going there again. There is nothing more horrible than being depressed, alone, and unable to sleep. It also reminded me that even before the slide, I had serious unresolved issues regarding this guy, partly from the good in me that is incapable of become seriously angry with people and partly from the needy side of me.
All this junk was intentional on my part. Not many people are as open as I (good quality / flaw) and I figured that if I can show how devastating an even short term relationship can be, maybe I could help somebody else, somebody who has gone through the same experience and thoughts but is too shamed to talk about it.
While I have my issues, I am convinced that Jon the sociopath’s contribution is equally at blame. If I had been dealing with a normal person, even if he decided I was not right for him, I would not have gone to the same dark place because normal people don’t provide the fuel to the fire.
After not sleeping for most of the week, I finally got about six hours sleep last night. Jon did not cause this bout of depression and insomnia, the depression and insomnia caused to think about him in a way I have not for a year, although again I do admit that he was still on my mind way too much.
Why? I mainly have too much time on my hands and I have been too isolated. Also, I have not really done the things I should, they are away but not thrown away. I guess I have some cleaning to do.
Something really good came out of this, as I figured out why I need to do what I need to do. Men are particularly vulnerable to pictures because men are very visual, and for men, to see something has the nearly same psychological effect as experiencing something. This is one reason why men are more likely to be porn addicts like Jon, but also why sports captivates men much more then women. I need to trash not only pictures but momentous as well, as there are few good memories associated with them.
I know I will be OK in the long-run.
PS Oxdrover, I did make a resents list.
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verity says:
For the record! Nooooo, I never thought bbe and one_step were the same person.
And I’m still not getting involved.
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one_step_at_a_time says:
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learning says:
BBE,
Good for you for the progress you made by doing what you needed to do for yourself. But the real key here is to keep up and keep on that path…be true to your word and delete/trash the pictures/things.(it acutally feels good once you do that – and it is a blessing like no other to find yourself on that path and wanting to and working toward letting go)…. so I ask again did you trash his pictures yet??
Also, please start looking in the mirror ALOT… look at your reflection…check YOURSELF out…SEE YOURSELF FOR WHO YOU ARE…while there are slight resemblances you definitely have your own unique features – so dont let yourself play THAT mind game. You are in control of you – nip that in the bud right now… heck…grow a beard…a goatee…update your hair — and start to embrace you.
And lastly, and nobody likes this part, but its part of the process … start talking about you… you have shared enough about John and all of his disorders, flaws, sicknesses, etc…and you bring up a very good and valid point about yourself – INCAPABLE OF BECOMING SERIOUSLY ANGRY AT PEOPLE AND NEEDY… now you can make even more progress… break that down…figure that out… and plan on changing that about yourself! Anger is a touchy subject, but Kathleen Hawk has some wonderful articles here about that/dealing with it/the importance of it, acceptance of it and the healing from it…also you need to talk about the TRUST issues… it runs much deeper than you feeling this man in your life of 30 days didnt trust you enough…something more is going on with you and topic of trust…lastly need to figure out some tools to help you proceed and protect yourself — go inward toward you…let go of Jamie…it was an unhealthy connection that wasnt meant to be longterm…what can you grow and learn from it? Time to buckle down and get to the bottom of why Jon is struggling with Jon…Jamie/John is gone and has been.
You will be OK in the long-run! You just have to really focus more on Jon now. Just part of the process, when youre ready!
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learning says:
I want to be clear that when I say need to focus more on you now… I am not saying this was/is your fault.
This is such a fine line of discussion…what I believe is a Sociopath can come into anyone’s life…some of us are better equipped, have had prior experience, just have innate ability to walk the other way once the jig is up and others of us are truly and rightfully sidelined from the experience…its just something we could never have imagined or known…but I believe very strongly that there were red flags…i really do believe this…we all had red flags at some point – and there is something about US – things we need to learn and grow about ourselves – why we didnt get angry, why we turned a cheek, why we made excuses, why we STAYED, why we sometimes get stuck in healing….these are things I mean when I say talk about you…
I hope I dont trigger anyone with this post. Sure we could say it was all them, and for the most part it WAS – but I believe there were red flags and we just didnt have the tools to deal with them or know how to handle them. Such as there are red flags in our healing process (depression, ruminating, anxiety, looking outward instead of inward) and again we just dont have the tools to deal with them or know how to handle them.
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behind_blue_eyes says:
blueskys;
The healing affect of forests is well-documented. Before I became ill, every Saturday I would lead bicycle rides outside of the city. We would take the train all day, ride for hours in the countryside or mountain bike in the woods, all year round. I actually prefer bicycling in the winter and have special tires for ice and snow. No matter how bad I felt starting out, I always felt great after!!
Part of my recent issues is that I have not been getting out to the woods, but I am getting ready for September.
Take a look at this: http://www.sciencedaily.com/re.....161221.htm
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behind_blue_eyes says:
SageeGirl;
Again, my apologies for being confusing. First, your point #1 is quite correct. Until my recent relapse into depression, I never really exhumed the body. I just did and i am going to bury it deep.
#2 – It is eerie we look the same. I did not realize that when I was dating Jon because his “thinning locks” were longer than in the other pictures and my hair is buzzed short — thinning too in the front I might add, lol. So, when I saw the pictures of the younger Jon, with buzzed hair, I was floored by how much he looked like me. Last summer, I showed a new friend of mine j6, and told him it was a picture of me at 25. His only comment was I am thinner now. So, you can see how this adds to the WTF??? of the whole experience. It actually was a coincidence he was around my apartment because I live in a touristy area and in the picture j1, it is very far in the background, by coincidence.
#3 – Behind Blue Eyes is not OneStep. Jon is the sociopath and John (me) is just f**ked up.
#4 and #5 – We can debate the trust issue forever. All I can about sociopath Jon is that in the trust category the dating website personality profiler has him about as far into untrusting as you can get. In the months after Jon, I met three people who were HIV positive — all were immediately upfront, one ended up dating. While Oxdrover disagrees, I feel we knew each other long enough for him to bring up this issue.
#6 – Thankfully, we did not have sex. We were taking things slow.
You tell me. Look at Jon in photo #1. Positive or not?
Look at Jon in photo #2, taken about 5 years before. People don’t age that fast, except for perhaps one other reason, heavy drug use and I have some reason to believe this is possible, even though on all the websites he says he never uses drugs.
#7 – Thank you, this is exactly what I am doing. After today, no more specifics about Jon, only general comments about sociopaths and how to get over them.
Thanks again, I really mean it.
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erin1972 says:
This article was a trigger for me. I have to say that recently I have been doing a lot of research on malignant narcissism and I know now exactly what my ex boyfriend is. Everything that I have EVER read on the subject gives a long laundry list of all those characteristics and EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM DESCRIBES MY EX. I am SO unbelievably glad that he discarded me and that he is out of my life.
I know that he had some sort of childhood trauma. I do not know details, but that is how and why they create their masks and false selves. These people are frighteningly dangerous and I could go as far as saying that anyone living with one is in immediate danger. I have been thinking all this time that his wife took him back due to only loving his money and status, but what if she is also afraid of what he would do to her. I have thought for a long time that if she hadn’t taken him back, he would have gone into a full blown narcissistic rage and possibly tried to physically harm me. He also could have tried to harm HER as well. He saw her divorce filing as the ultimate humiliation and they will do ANYTHING to avoid that. When that humiliation occurs, the go into rage. The fact that I knew how he conned me and lied, was what made him discard me and it became a bigger deal than the sex. He was able to give up the sex and romance if he thought he could save his mask. I believe that he could kill to protect that false self/mask.
I posted on here recently that I had someone outside of my apartment watching me one day. Hens should remember because he responded to me. I was being watched while getting out of my truck. I noticed this person and I turned around, leaned against my truck and fixed a glare in that direction. I finally began to walk toward the vehicle and he pulled a sharp u turn and sped off.
All of this makes me really glad that I have decided to move out of state. He is NOT running me out of here. The bottom line is that this city sucks right now. There are no opportunities. I want to be in a big fun city where I have lots to do and freedom to go wherever I want and not have unpleasant memories. I am going to deal with his wife being at my job until I can leave in January. I am keeping a cautious sense about me in respect to her. She now knows we’re in the same building. Her cell phone number appeared on my emergency pager the other day. I don’t know if he will feel the need to try to guard his mask. It’s still just so hard for me to believe that I was with someone so evil and dangerous.
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behind_blue_eyes says:
I found the page talking about the types of sociopaths:
http://www.lisaescott.com/foru.....sociopaths
I wish I had known about this a year ago. I am floored. No doubts in my mind any more that I may have misjudged “poor” Jon.
My first thought that Jon might be a sociopath was based upon an article dispelling the myth that all sociopaths are criminal. Two things resonated from that article, the sociopathic stare, and classic traits of superficial charm and such. I remembered Jon’s stare from across the room the night I met him and how I was actually made uncomfortable by his deep eye contact. Its why I chose the name behind_blue_eyes. If you compare our eyes, there is a certain sparkle in my eyes that is missing in his, particularly j1. But even his eyes in j6 have a chill to them.
But Lisa E. Scott’s article finally seals it for me. No more poor Jon. No more thinking he is anything but a cunning, manipulative sociopath.
He is a combination of three sociopath types and I cannot believe how exactly these three fit.
“The ‘Jekyll/Hyde’ Psychopath comes on strong, sweeps us off our feet. Appearing to be our ‘soulmate’, he falsely mirrors our values, interests, goals, philosophies, tastes and habits. He mimics our ambition, integrity, honesty and sincerity. He portrays false integrity, appears helpful, comforting, generous in his ‘idealization’ of us phase” — I have said this many times.
“It never lasts as Jekyll turns into Hyde. He blames others. His victims are objectified and disposable. He convincingly mimics human emotions. His lack of conscience is shocking, incomprehensible and emotionally painful to us” — When he dumped me, he immediately switched the conversation to our second date when he agreed that we had a “connection” but was not sure where it would go. Then he completely ignored that he pursued me. I even raised some concerns that since he was drinking our first three dates, I had concerns about him liking me sober. His response was that the first two nights he was not that drunk (I was totally sober) and that he was sober the times he talked to me on the phone or chatted online.
That fact that he dumped me by email, a week before Christmas, while bed ridden with Shingles facing the possibility of being HIV+ says enough.
“We remember his odd reaction to situations” — in a restaurant, he walked out on me when I asked him back to my apartment. “You offended my British reservedness.” When he finally came to my place, he became very angry at a pie I bought for us to share. “I told you I am not into sweets.” There were others too.
“We are quickly discarded as he cultivates a new perfect soulmate” — in his last email to me, I remember him talking about visits to several named friends and a late night with “drinks or three” at another unnamed friend’s place, who was probably the new victim.
“He may drop verbal clues about his true character early in the relationship, but we fail to grasp its meaning” — he alluded to his “kid in a candy shop” days but downplayed it to seem like the past. Also when talking about places to go in New York, I mentioned this one notorious sex club. I not only remember him becoming particularly interested, I remember telling him “neither of us need going to that place.
“Later, when the psychopath eventually emerges, we remember his early warning. His targets suffer emotional and financial devastation and our emotional recovery is lengthy” — thank god I am only out $200 for dinner.
“The Female Psychopath: Using her false mask, this charming Southern Belle schemer” — Jon’s false mask is the sensitive “EMO Kid.”
“Appears helpless or needy, pitiful, inept or emotionally unable to cope” — I am really floored by this since one of his many profile names is “cluelessXYZ” And almost always something “lad or boy.” Others: “jonboyXY” and “poshboyXY”
“This passive parasite lures and abuses the normal protector/ provider instincts in her male target” — exactly what he did.
“When the mask comes off she is cunning, ruthless, predatory, and loveless” — obviously now.
“The Promiscuous Psychopath. Pornography, hyper sexuality, masturbation, poor boundaries, exhibitionism, use of prostitutes, incest are reported by his targets” — yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, not sure (or might have been one) and incest. This is the only time I am going to speculate I always had some concerns that he seemed distant from his sister, his only living relative. He really liked his two nephews but even then I felt that maybe she did not want him around them. Now knowing of his strong attraction to younger men and boys, maybe there is a reason why he is distant from his sister.
I was not going to go here, but among his 700 profile questions, four always stood out in my mind. First, there was one about being willing to date somebody with a sexually transmitted disease. But there were three others, the most chilling, “would you be willing to date somebody convicted of a sex crime?” Guess what, in order to match highly with him, answer yes to this question. That is when my originally high matching with him dropped. There was a similar question about “willingness to date a former sex-industry worker.”
“Can have a preference for ‘sadomasochism’ sexuality. Easily bored, he demands increasingly deviant stimulation” — very much into unsafe sex and very kinky.
“The Internet a favorite hunting ground” — I was able to find Jon’s profile on three gay dating websites and two mainstream. I was also able to find his profile on four porn websites and one cam-to-cam one. I was also able to find a profile name known to be used by him that was banned from one website. The reason could be anything innocuous (suspected of multiple profiles) or something far worse.
“However, another type exists, the one who withholds sex or affection” — for whatever reason, this is exactly what he did to me.
PS – I just deleted all the emails from him I saved.
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erin1972 says:
Your paragraph stating “the Jekyll/Hyde psychopath comes on strong and sweeps us off our feet”, IS my malignant narcissist. That entire paragraph describes him–every single word. All our coworkers thought he was evil but he portrayed a totally different persona with me. He had a false self, a mask, I found out when he disarded me-the day after he spent hours talking to me about planning the rest of our lives together. He literally went from Jekyll to Hyde in front of my eyes!
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behind_blue_eyes says:
erin1972;
Same here. I bet you all of Jon’s coworkers find him pleasant.
I saw Jekyll and Hyde in a week. One day, he has me thinking soul mate. 6 days later, he only wants to be friends.
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behind_blue_eyes says:
Funny, now I wish I had not deleted his “just friends email.”
I was thinking about posting the whole thing because it reeks of the shallow effect. Especially the second part, where he talks about all the things he would do for me while I was sick in bed but could not because he was not in New York.
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erin1972 says:
I believe mine is truly dangerous. If he hadn’t got the wife to take him back, I believe he would have killed me and maybe her too for humiliating him. He was going over the edge in a rage because she had filed for divorce.
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Wini says:
BehindBlueEyes, I know a Spath that uses the dating sites on line that has 100s of his profiles. Each profile is listed from a different angle, different states, different towns/cities and of course different zip codes when he signs on (e.g. nice guy, bad biker guy, owns his own business, unemployed, educated, dropped out of HS etc.). You name it, this freak has multiple sites going, not only on one dating site, but other dating sites. I used to goof on his multiple profiles years after I met him. Telling him off no matter what name he used, I’d write back “I KNOW IT’S YOU BLANK”. Of course he’d write back and said, that he wasn’t BLANK. I always knew what profiles was his because of certain things he listed in his hobby list. It was always the same.
LOL.
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OxDrover says:
Dear BBE,
The “not sleeping for six days” says to me that you have some depression, PTSD or other problem going on. Maybe a bit of bi-polar even(???)
I seriously think that you should go see a psychiatrist and talk to them about some of your symptoms like pretty serious insomnia.
I know that you have some serious cardiac problems and believe it or not, they can be EVEN MORE serious with severe stress from emotional problems/trauma/events/losses and actually cause the “broken heart syndrome” which is DEATH.
I know I am “hard on you” but at the same time BBE, you knowI care and I am CONCERNED that the way you are being “OCD” about his looks and your looks and how you look younger than he does, and so on, makes me think that “the lady protesteth too much” and that you are feeling kind of “down” on yourself and concerned more about yourself being “not worthy” than with him. If that makes any sense.
Please get an evaluation by a mental health medical professional and see if you might need medication or a change in medication besides some counseling.
I also realize that validation is helpful, etc. and we can do that, but I think maybe you are going over the top a bit with this. While I think LF is wonderful (NO doubt about that) I also think that there are some needs that LF can’t solve and right now you may have one of those needs. My prayers and blessings BBE ((((Hugs)))))
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behind_blue_eyes says:
OxDrover;
Thanks. Last night, I did get six hours sleep and feel much better. I agree I had a cycle of depression followed by hypomania, but that is gone. It is not my normal state.
The looks thing did not come out right.
While the primary factor in posting pictures was the show hard problem I face trying to forget somebody who looks like me, another was a dig at him as I feel the current Jon is the least attractive person and that matters to him, being so superficial yet a fraud, pretending to be much younger than he is. It is helping me put all this behind.
While he “may” have rejected me because I am not a “boy,” I am not obsessing that if I looked better he would not have rejected me. He rejected me because he was following his normal, predatory sociopathic path.
There was nothing wrong with me. In fact, I take it a compliment that such a superficial, youth-targeting predator found me an “attractive” target.
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behind_blue_eyes says:
I trashed the three little momentous I have from him. I should have done that the day I was dumped. There is nothing left.
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Wini says:
BehindBlueEyes, you need to focus on pampering yourself. You are at the beginning of the horror story. Finding out your partner was nothing but a shadow and a lie. The trauma and stress caused when our minds try to figure out the where, when, whys and what the heck happened here, is incredible. It’s natural to obsess about “them” and we ALL slowly have to learn that focusing on them is futile. We learn to start focusing on ourselves in order to start the healing process. I used to take long hot bubble baths. I’d sit in the tub and soak for hours on end … with my favorite music playing in the background. Of course at first, the only music I listened to was jazz. After a few months of soaking in bubble baths and listening to jazz, I then started playing all the different types of music I liked. Jazz was still included (SMILE).
Do you remember what it is that relaxes you? What made you totally calm and serene? What it is that only you can do for yourself to make you feel great, loved, cherished by yourself, for yourself?
Think about yourself right now. Get away from the websites that you know your phantom is on. You should make it a point … not to care or think about him at this point in time. That’s what NO CONTACT is all about. No thinking about him. No looking for his sites on line. No phone calls to him or anyone that knows him. No driving by where he lives. NO CONTACT … Especially since you have to put your energy and focus on your lawsuit and your health issues.
Peace to your heart and soul as you heal.
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OxDrover says:
Dear BBE,
While the hypomania may not be your “normal” state, it is sure not something that is good for you in any way! That coupled with the depression (or alternating) is something that I strongly advise you to have assessed. Actually a hypomania is one of the more difficult types of bi-polar to diagnose but I’m not sure that essentially staying awake for 6 days is “hypo” mania.
In any case, I really do strongly advise you to seek some professional mental health medical evaluation on this….it will be better for your physical and cardiac health as well and given that you already have a significant problem cardiac wise it might actually save or prolong your life in a meaningful way.
Believe me when I tell you that it was VERY DIFFICULT for me to be on the “wrong side of the clipboard” when I put myself under care for the PTSD. I kept trying to convince myself that I could “handle” things because I was a “professional” but you know, even we are HUMANS first. LOL
Medical personnel make the WORST patients after all. LOL Fortunately, I have a great internist who listens to me, but doesn’t obey me!~ ROTFLMAO Blessings!
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behind_blue_eyes says:
One last thing about the superficiality / looks thing. Yes, low-self esteem was an issue at one point in my life. I was a chubby kid and in my early 20s I was drinking too much beer and about 20 pounds over-weight. A big 20 pounds. It was a huge issue for me then not because I was depressed. Yes, I had a concern about my appearance when I met Jamie because I was too thin, but not obsessing about it.
Jon’s overt online superficiality triggered me a bit in that I was once there. It was a reason why I wasn’t getting into any relationships. I was so superficial I was not giving the person the chance. Once I started giving the person the chance at least I got to “dating.” Better than overnighters..
When I met him, I was proud that I found a guy kinda cute but the real attraction came from the person. Little did I know it was all fraud and mirroring. When I unmasked him but still felt for him, I wanted to slap him in the head for being so superficial. Not for me but for him.
Now my attitude is if you live by the sword you die by the sword and I do not feel sorry he is dying by the sword. I just hope he does not hurt too many people along the way.
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behind_blue_eyes says:
Ox;
I did forget to mention I am seeing a psych next week. I do listen.
Thanks again.
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behind_blue_eyes says:
Wini;
Done too. Now I am focusing on me, finding a job and my heath and legal issues and ways to be of services to others until everything is back to normal.
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OxDrover says:
Dear BBE,
I’m glad you have an appointment with a psych next week. I think that is right now the BEST thing you can do for yourself. Believe me, it was the LAST THING I wanted to do for myself, but I’m ever so glad I did….better living through pharmacology! Actually, I don’t take that lightly, because refusing to take medication for mental health issues because you can “do it with strong will” is about like refusing to take insulin when you are Type-I diabetic. While “diet and exercise” DO help diabetes, they are NOT the only thing needed because the hormones are out of whack and it requires ALSO taking medication.
I do not think that medication ONLY is the ONLY answer for emotional or mental health issues either, but they are in some cases NECESSARY to complete healing, but it still requires that you do the WORK to go along with the medication.
Good luck with your psych doc visit and if they do not get the PTSD thing or the psychopath “thing” find one who DOES. I have no problem “doctor shopping” until I find one that I think has not finished in the last place in their class. Even those doctors that DID finish LAST in their class are still referred to as “doctor.” LOL
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FirstThingsFirst says:
erin1972,
I really relate to the things you posted above, especially when you said, “These people are frighteningly dangerous and I could go as far as saying that anyone living with one is in immediate danger.”
AND
“The fact that I knew how he conned me and lied, was what made him discard me and it became a bigger deal than the sex. He was able to give up the sex and romance if he thought he could save his mask. I believe that he could kill to protect that false self/mask.”
I remember lying in bed when the s/p lived with me and being scared as I heard him talking to himself late at night in the apartment. He did that: He talked to himself as if he was talking to another person and called himself by name . . . .
I used to think, “This person is really crazy. This person could do anything.” And even though it scares me to say this, I did used to think that he could murder me, and I told my friends that if I were ever murdered, to have him investigated.
I am of no use to him now, particularly because I know exactly what he is up to, and he knows I know. Before the entire picture of him emerged, I had suggested that we have casually sex, quite a few months after the initial breakup/betrayal. It was fine with him if the sex “just happened”. But he couldn’t handle the honesty of making an agreement, of seeing eye-to-eye, of being on the same page with me because without the deception he had no sense of control.
At the time, I told him I could have casual sex with him because “I knew where I stood.” (And where I stood, which I knew but did not say to him, was that I knew that he did not care about me at all.)
And what he said was, “I don’t like that — you know where you stand.” Creepy. Having a picture of who he was/is and how he operated diminished the deception that gave him his sense of control.
So yes erin1972, my s/p “was [also] able to give up the sex and romance if he thought he could save his mask, [and I too] believe that he could kill to protect that false self/mask.” That is why I have chosen not to warn his latest target because it would endanger my safety.
I really want to have the courage, the strength, the fortitude, faith, and resilience, to find a good person to be my companion and to eventually love.
Those are the things I am trying to work on now.
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bulletproof says:
behind_blue_eyes
I’m happy to read you are getting help and focusing more on the here and now…
I got a little paranoid about your posting because of the blips in the story….even why the story was told in such detail…I know you say it’s in order to get it out, so you can begin to unravel it all…
Y’know the whole looks thing is just more of the illusion we feel we have to buy into…why do you think we get old in the first place? because we are being humiliated and ridiculed??
No it’s because we need to learn. that it is not about good looks, young looks, it’s about the person underneath. The soul inside a body. The inner being that gets stronger as the body begins to go..the bad eyes sight…no it’s improved eyesight you are seeing THROUGH the illusion of this world…the loss of memory…no it’s remembering half the bullshit we obsess about is not important!! and as this body grows more beautiful in old age…it begins to die beautifully, perfectly so that the spirit can be free once more having learnt all the crazy lesson of this lifetime…the gospel according to bulletproof..lol
now I gotta go back to those photographs…number 2,5 and 6 are the same person…..number 1,3 and 4 are the same person..as far as I can see…IF that is the case…you are claiming to be number 5 which does not fit in…and if you are number 1 you are not number 5….it does not matter….leave it go…but look to the answers INSIDE you..you wont find the answer in the mirror…it’s another illusion…..best of luck
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bulletproof says:
and just to relate what I’ve said to a spath, what is so startling, unnerving…shocking and all the things we say here..with a psychopath/sociopath there seems to be no person…with feeling underneath…no one there…a soul-less entity that does not feel remorse, empathy or love. It’s a hideous encounter and it goes against everything you thought to be true…we grapple with the possibility there is another species amongst us, that kill without conscience, commit fraudulent acts to supposed loved ones, that lie, fool, con, trick, manipulate to just get what they want from you…and then dump and move on…leaving you deranged for a while!!
The P has completely re programmed my head since meeting him..he has forced the old neural pathways to shut down and new ones to open up (for a while there I though I was just dying but there is a shift and a new life…a better one maybe after these monsters)…I will never be the same person ever again after being up close and personal with him
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behind_blue_eyes says:
Bulletproof;
Too much detail can cloud things! Like I said, I wanted to get out all these things, in detail, in a public forum so I could finally get some closure on this horrible event. I had to say some crazy things because crazy things happened, like the stupid willie thing…
The pictures were only to underscore that fundamental problem I had with all this that I never told anyone. I was too hurt and embarrassed.
You say, “number 2,5 and 6 are the same person…..number 1,3 and 4 are the same person..as far as I can see…”
First, 2 and six and the same person, probably taken a couple of years apart. That is Jon, not me. You are correct. The ears easily give it away. 6 may have been taken more than a couple of years before 2 or is Photoshopped (he is professionally trained in digital media) as of all the pictures I have seen of him, it is far and above the best.
6 is also the one Jon uses most online. I wonder what people think when they are baited by number 6 and meet, number 1, a guy appearing nearly 10 years older… Fraud from the beginning.
3 and 4 are the same person, John, me! I am a bit insulted that you think number 1, is also me!!!!!!!
Number 5 confuses but that is the only one in which I do not see him at all.
Back to the superficiality thing. I was trying to prove I was not superficial by liking the guy in number 1, the least “attractive” of them all, sad, drawn and tired looking. He looks the oldest and in person you can see crows fee and gray hairs I did not care. I would not have gone for the guy in the last photo. I did not want a boy.
But there was a day when I did. That is what I was trying to say. And the irony of it all. Me looking past superficiality to get to care for a “person” who was created to suit his own means. I am glad he is superficial, at least in terms of going for very young guys. Otherwise, this might have gone on way too long, he probably would have drained me financially as I willingly would have picked up the bill for nice things he can’t afford and i may have very well been exposed or even contracted HIV.
From your second post you can understand why all this left my head spinning. I agree, before him, I never thought such a person could exist. While he was sleeping, I remember looking at him and said to myself “Why are you so cold to me? Things could be so great if you were not so cold.” He is particularly dangerous because he is so unassuming, of medium height, thin, quite, polite, British. But there is an evil in him I never witnessed before. I saw from day 1. But instead of running from it, I wanted to fix it. I will never make that mistake again.
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behind_blue_eyes says:
OxDrover;
First, I again owe you thanks for your advice and support. More, important, I owe you an apology. Since joining this site, I opposed your view that all sociopaths are cunning, manipulative and intentional. I contend that some, like while perhaps without feelings, are still more the “clueless” kid, whose actions, while damaging and without guilt on his part, are accidental.
I could not have been more wrong. He is cunning, albeit not as cunning as he thinks given everything I was able to unmasked him. What convinced me was Lisa Scott’s 12 Characteristics of Psychopaths/ Sociopaths that you referenced.
Here again is the URL – http://www.lisaescott.com/foru.....sociopaths
My suspicion began with an article talking about the sociopathic stare. Then I learned about background characteristics that are common to sociopaths, such as coming from a broken home, being raised in a city, poor socioeconomic background. Jon has all three.
Certainly he showed most sociopathic traits including superficial charm, the shallow effect (from his “just friends” email; such a good example, I should have posted it), promiscuity, alcohol abuse and glib. Of course his actions showed little remorse and his hate for his father is chilling. Still, I argued that his actions were accidental not intentional.
Lisa’s 12 Characteristics changed everything because I could apply specific instances to her examples. The Jekyll/Hyde thing I already knew, but looking at the list again something new resonates, “he portrays false integrity”. Ah yes, when I “offended my British reservedness.” I actually bought into that one. Its what made me begin thinking I found somebody special.
Curiously though, it was the “Female Psychopath” that really convinced me.
“Appears helpless or needy, pitiful, inept or emotionally unable to cope.” That a 36 year old man, has a profile name “hopeless boy” (or close to it) says it all. It is an act. It is cunning. He knows what he is doing. It is an act because the impression I had of him was that he was fairly mature! In fact, I though I was the immature one. I even said so in an email to him when I apologized for acting like a teenager at times.
He is a dangerous wolf in sheep’s clothing who knows what he is doing.
Thus, I must agree with you that at some point in time, he will contact me. My guess, about two more years, as he nears 40. Why? This goes back to the superficial thing I did not explain well. His being depends upon him being able to superficially project the “boy” image to attract boys. That is going fast. Continued aging and reaching 40 will hit him like a ton a bricks. What is he going to do? Reach out to those having everything he wants who were once attracted to him.
I will predict the email. It will be intentionally awkward. “Hi John. You probably have forgotten me by now…” Manipulative “but every once in a while whilst I am in New York I wonder how you are doing… ” A little apologetic “I know I might have hurt your feelings but I was going thru some tough times as well…” Blame shift “and you know I am not the most open person in the world… Flattery “with all you have going for your I am sure you are in a great place…” then the pity play “I can still understand why you might not want to talk to me, but I always felt we can be great friends, with a self-depricating closure “and if you have time for a common English lad such as myself…”
Don’t worry, I won’t fall for him again.
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OxDrover says:
Dear BBE,
You owe me NO apology, and you protesting that I was wrong didn’t hurt my feelings a bit! LOL
I’m glad though that you were able to get a handle on what I was talking about. They are NOT without guile. Even the most “innocent” of them are crafty, instinctively using stalking techniques to gain whatever it is that they are after. They hone this skill by watching others emote from the time they are children. They never get it “quite right” but pretty close if they have a needy or wounded victim. Some are excellent at it though.
By attaching to an empathatic person they are like a parasite sucking blood and nourishment from us.
I’ve been “hard on” you, BBE, but I know you are stronger than maybe you even know, and THE TRUTH WILL SET US FREE, BUT FIRST IT WILL PITH US OFF!
I know you resisted the truth, and that is okay, at that point in your healing you needed to eat the truth a small bite at a time until you gained strength…but now it is time for you to man up and take some healthy big bites and you are ready for them.
There have been many times I too have wanted to fix my sons or my sperm donor, or my egg donor, or fix YOU or any number of other bloggers here but I know I can’t fix anyone and I can’t make you (or anyone) accept the truth, but I can put it out where when you are ready if you ever are, you can accept it. KNOWLEDGE IS POWER. You are picking up your power now. NOTE: YOU are fixing yourself. If the truth I put out, my truth, helps you do this, I am glad, but you must accept it when and if you are ready. ((((Hugs)))))
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bulletproof says:
BBE
It’s okay getting it all out….separating yourself out from the muck….absolutely fine….forget projecting the boy image the image….wake up…bucket of ice cold water …whoooosh!!! wake up stop predicting the e-mail and tend to your self…the state you are in.trying to prove you are not superficial….just stop it…stop it.
Accept their maybe pain that goes with this…emotional pain…lonliness…rejection…real horrible stuff you have to stay with…and we are here….to help, witness, acknowledge and care about you…not him…forget about him he is not here…forget about him..
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verity says:
I said I wouldn’t play but:
“3 and 4 are the same person, John, me! I am a bit insulted that you think number 1, is also me!!!!!!!
Number 5 confuses but that is the only one in which I do not see him at all.”
And yet yesterday you said YOU were j5:
“I never said the guy in j4 andj6 is the same. They are not. j3,4,5 is me, j1,j2,j6 is Jon. The reason why I posted these pics was to illustrate a fundamental problem I had — him (John) and me (Jon) are very similar looking, at least the current me, and the Jon of j2 and j6.”
J5 is a pop star or something.
I know. I shouldn’t get involved, but like BP I am … not happy with this. None of my business, I know.
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verity says:
You know, I know what it is. It’s all … noise. Obfuscation. Repetition. It just reminds me of the spathy/histrionic/narc too much.
Apologies to anyone I have offended and I’m going for a lovely bubble bath.
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erin1972 says:
firstthingsfirst: I had a really hard time with the fact that he could give up my love AND our incredible sex to preserve his mask. When I think about it too much it really hurts my feelings. When he called me 4 months after the discard to “get closure”, and tried to make excuses for his behavior, I told him that he could never in a million years understand just how much he hurt my heart by doing what he did. I told him that my love was real and I could never EVER EVER DO WHAT HE DID to someone. I told him that he had no heart. He has an empty black hole where a heart should be. He had heart bypass surgery 6 years before we met. I told him that it’s too bad that he didn’t die during the surgery because it would have saved so much heartache for me, his wife, and his daughter.
I just really can’t wait to move to another city and leave these painful memories behind. I am so tired of knowing that his wife is at my work and I could run into her at anytime. She threatened me last summer and promised to take me down. I hate her and I hate him. The disgusting part is that even though I don’t want him anywhere near me, deep down in my heart I still have love for him. It’s a little over a year and it’s still there. It has diminished over time but it’s not completely gone. Today is a hard day for me because I want to cry.
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SageeGirl says:
Verity…whoa…WTF??? I know I’m new here, but I am getting a really bad vibe from your last comments…
I feel that you are invalidating everything that BBE is feeling right now, and it is not fair.
I realize you are hurting, but telling him that what he feels is like your spath is much too….cold… and spathy…
The fact that you apologized for offending anybody before you floated off to your bubble bath is just not right.
Should we all hold back on getting out our feelings for fear of being treated so blithely?
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Hopeforjoy says:
Erin1972,
I am so sorry to hear you’re having a bad day. It’s a horrible burden to carry with you, that none of it was real. It makes us feel like we are weighed down and can’t get the ache out of our hearts. You loved the thought of him, what he pretended to be. Yea, the sex was great, the adoration was wonderful, but in the end, they are nothing but a shell.
Try to think of something else, get motivated with your biking and working toward your goals. I know how hard it is to purge them out of our lives. Focus on the acadamy, focus on you because you deserve some love from yourself. You are the one who is worthy of so much more than any kind of relationship with a shell. They are the lie. The spath and his disordered, in the fog, wife do not need one more ounce of your thoughts.
Give yourself a pat on the back, you made it out of the relationship with your soul intact. His wife is unable to find hers. You are worth it. You are still whole and alive and free, thank the lord.
I really don’t know why they affect us so deeply and how hard it is to get out of their grasp. I am serving my husband with divorce papers next week. Got everything done that my attorney wanted and I hate to say it, but I’m scared to death. I may be overreacting, don’t know, but he is so in Disney land that I don’t know what’s going to happen. What ever he is I know that he will never be able to be honest and take ownership for his actions. When I think of life without him, I have glimpses of feeling contentment. Finally.
Hang in there Erin1972, you hold your head high, believe in yourself, we do.
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hens says:
Boo – I am back online in safe mode, seems a virus is trying to infect my computer, let’s see who can I blame that on? Anyway I have been trying to catch up on the thread. Dear Blueskies Thanks for taking me along on that wonderful train ride..like you it took me awhile to regain that zest for breathing, but I am here and living the best life I can and enjoying the simple wonders every day, every minute.. Was it Buttons who said we need to be our own caregivers and nurses’, I like that..if we wait around for someone to share our life with then we aint living and what a waste that would be..Behind Blue Eyes…I am trying to keep up with you.. I want to share something with you, sometimes the universe kick’s us in the ass because we keep repeating the same ole life threatening patterns..I had to focus on me instead of him, her and them, something that was very difficult to do, but that kick in the head was the best thing that ever happened to me…Yes I have to push myself hard, except my responsibility in getting involved in a sick toxic twisted relationship.. But I feel for the first time ever I have some tools to work with, I have made some sense of the chaos and see where I was at fault..And to franklee speaking – I knew you was an asshole when you came here..I have not read any of your post in a long while and refuse to do so in the future…..
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one_step_at_a_time says:
Erin72 – so cry. really, just cry. it’s okay that you still love him a bit erin, it will take time for that to go away totally.
you are doing lots of good things and you have goals you are working on.
let the toxic sludge come up – the love is part of what needs to bleed off. it will take some time. don’t be concerned by finding a little love. you are going in the right direction. sometimes when there is more calm, that’s when things rise up. it’s okay to feel this and work through it.
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one_step_at_a_time says:
Hens – now, are you trying to blame the piece o crap for the virus!?
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hens says:
Onestep – Nah – I prolly opened a spam mail out of curiosity and got bit by the bug.. I think there are peeps who do nothin but try to infect us, that is their soul purpose in life, they get a thrill by doing damage..
E72 – One step is right about the crying, dont hold it in, we all need a good snot slobberin soul shaking cry.. Hey you were in love with the dood, call him an illusion , mirror, lie, what ever but the fact remains, I will always love my X, he represented everything I ever wanted – excuse me while I go barf – but maybe some of you can relate to that – I am not blind ‘yet’ but it took me awhile to realize he was representing the devil.
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one_step_at_a_time says:
sure it wasn’t from the porn sites?
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hens says:
I dont watch porn – but I have to wade through it sometimes to visit a gay oreinted website. Really Onestep I am so over sex and porn..been there done that..I aint no angel..thats why I wear sunglasses at the rodeo..~!
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one_step_at_a_time says:
i tried 2 x’s to send you a little smiley face but wordpress says i already smiled once tonight and it isn’t putting up with no ‘duplicate’ smiling.
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hens says:
grinnin like a possum eating peanutbutter ;0
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Hopeforjoy says:
Hens,
You have some awesome insight in some small paragraphs. You can say the right thing, hit the nail on the head, with so few words. It’s a gift. But yep, those spaths show us fantasy island and we fall for it, buy a condo there. Pretty soon, the fantasy becomes a nightmare and we just want to find a way home. Anyway to get back to sanity where we aren’t questioning every part of the relationship. Healthy partners don’t leave us feeling this way, like losers.
Glad you’re not into porn, it’s over rated and I’m sick and tired of men and women being looked at as freaking objects cuz we aren’t.
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erin1972 says:
hens and onestep-I do feel like crying tonight but I really could hardly do it. It bothers me that when I see HER at work, I don’t feel anger. I feel hurt and pain and sadness. That really bothers me. I also feel really small and I can’t stand that. I need that empowered I wanna kick some ass feeling.
I really want to move away. I have a connection in Atlanta. One of the renowned trauma surgeons that I worked with in STL is there now. I facebooked him this morning and asked him about the city. He loves it there and is excited about it. He sent me another message this evening asking me to email him my resume. I just need to research the city. I am afraid to move because of the economy.
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hens says:
Hmmm Erin72 She is a victim of his, of course you dont feel anger at her, I wanted to feel anger at my X’s X…and his current … but duh..it takes awhile to sink in – but I still think you should have a good cry and stop trying to be so tuff – we wont tell anybody.
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behind_blue_eyes says:
Sorry;
My story confused things but isn’t that what you get when dealing with a sociopath?
At least I know I am not crazy when I sometimes see him in my reflection as I demonstrated. I got some great advice on that, but I wish people could really understand how really, really hard that has been for me. Wish I was a pop star. Anyway, as promised the pictures and account are deleted.
Seems like the more I try to explain, the more I am misunderstood.
The rest, I was just trying to show the irony how in me, the older guy who looks young but is not superficial, who was looking for somebody close to his age, meeting a predator who online uses profile names, photographs and wording to appear young solely to attract young guys. We are named John and Jonathan. We look very similar. We have very similar likes in many things, except I hate being called “John Boy.” My relatives still call me that. He preys using the name “jonboy.”
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behind_blue_eyes says:
Everything was done as promised. Emails trashed. Photos trashed. Momentous trashed.
Maybe a will grow more facial hair…
I also got a very touching email from this guy I was seeing last summer:
“You were next to me when I needed someone to speak with and to share my emotions with. I spend very beautiful time with you, you gave me some good energy too without knowing, and I am glad I met you.
I think you are unique and I dont think I will ever find a person like you. I had a 5 month relation with a canadian guy when you left, by it was not like yours.”
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verity says:
You’re right Sageegirl. It was passive-aggressive of me, or something, to apologise and walk away. I have a tendency to do that – be a little passive-aggressive. And I hated it in the spath too! As if apologising before doing something makes it okay.
I should not have voiced my own paranoia. I did sound spathy. Learning to keep my mouth shut is one of the changes I want to make as I am in this period of healing anyway.
I had to apologise to style1 last week for reacting to her links. Not a good idea to come and post when I’m in the middle of the anger stage. I won’t pretend that BBE hasn’t got me twitching (sorry to talk about you in third person BBE) but that doesn’t mean there’s anything suspicious going on at all. That just means … I’m twitching!
I won’t post for a bit. Being online isn’t good for me. It’s where the spath ‘lives’, because it is where we had most of our relationship. I switch automatically into panic mode when I come on here and I am on too much. Real life is a little … weird, but it won’t get any less weird if I don’t go and face it a bit more.
Edit, ‘cos I had to come back and say something, having thought about it some more. It was a pointless lashing out. There are lots of posts on here that get me going but I allowed myself to do it here to BBE. Like a little dog with a bone I was. Lesson learned.
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bulletproof says:
Verity the anger is also okay as far as I’m concerned..it has to be…just because you are angry, expressing it is really okay. If everyone responded with wisdom and insight I’d hate it here. …let’s keep it real and being a perfectly “nice” person all the time is WEIRD
Anger is part of the process….it’s important you express it not go away feeling bad…. Human beings get angry…it’s not a sign of a spath…not my one anyway. He was gorgeous, you’d all love him here, thinking he was a really nice guy, what a great sense of humour, so loving….but underneath the act he is the Devil….
Verity you may be passive aggressive and rather than supress all the anger. be more direct with it…and put it where it really belongs…which is probably with the spath in your life.
Kathleen Hawk is brilliant on the anger stuff and reading her astonishing articles has helped me so much. She really understands the anger and came to my rescue one day as I grappled with my own angry tantrum with a poster who I ‘sensed’ was ignoring me….and it’s so funny because even though this is all just words and we can’t see eachother we pick up on so much! I wanted to throttle the person…but had a good talk with myself and realised I was triggered….the P ignored me as I desperately tried to get some of my money back…important documents…alone in a strange country…he ignored me and I nearly died of grief…then anger kicked in and I hired a car and chased him down and got every document and some items back…he knew I had turned crazy and thought it was funny…it was the most frightening experience…I was trembling, stuttering, crying, walloping pillows in hotels, pacing the floor, running up a massive phone bill as I talked to friends for ages for support! but I completed what I set out to do…
that rage is still inside me..it’s a rage that actually if he cornered me, threatened me or attacked me I’d kill him stone dead with it…. it’s a biological fact ….now where does the rage go?? now that he is gone with a truck load of my money after a million lies…off to trawl for his next fresh healthy victim who he will leave in a similar trembling babbling hair torn out state!!
I don’t think it’s unusual to be triggered here with eachother, I think it’s inevitable and expression needs to be ‘okay’…including Sageegirl responding..it’s great…really caring to respond with honesty and directness instead of rolling out the party line….or deciding to post around someone!! that’s passive aggressive…you can really feel it but nothing was done or said!!!
the covert “f you” by and large we come back around and learn how to co exist….just one opinion
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