LETTERS TO LOVEFRAUD: Our relationship had three distinct phases
PDF Editor’s Note: This story was submitted by a Lovefraud reader who we’ll call “Marcia.”
I met him on Chemistry.com in February of 2009. He wrote to me through the site and we corresponded several times before speaking on the phone. I liked his profile very well and enjoyed his style of writing and what he wrote in our correspondence. When we spoke on the phone, we had no problem starting and maintaining a conversation on the phone. He was articulate, intelligent and had all the time in the world for me.
We met on March 6, 2009 for a drink. I got there first and very symbolic of our relationship, he blindsided me and sneaked behind me and playfully grabbed the back of my neck. The attraction and chemistry was immediate. He was extremely charming. He looked into my eyes with such a piercing look that I felt he was seeing through me. He was fun. He made me laugh. He treated me like a gentleman. He had a great energy. I just enjoyed being around him and with him all the time.
That very same night we had dinner together and made love. Since I was an hour away from him, I was staying at a hotel that night. So he stayed with me and we had a wonderful and relaxing breakfast on the porch next morning. When I was leaving he asked me if I could see him next day. I was coming to town to see a ballet with my girlfriend so we decided to have dinner with my girlfriend. He invited me to stay at his place that night and I accepted.
Lavish flattery
Lavish flattery began immediately. There was nothing I could do wrong. I was sexy, I was beautiful, I was attractive, my energy was great, it was fun to be around me, I was the best mother, I was the best doctor, I was the best lover, I was the best friend, I had great taste for clothing and jewelry, nobody has ever loved him like I did, he had never loved anyone like he loved me, he would marry me in a heartbeat, finally he had found the woman he wanted to spend the rest of his life with, that is why he had never settled down before, he did not want to settle for less, and I was the proof he was right to wait for the right person.
Every time he would see me, he couldn’t catch his breath (he was such a great actor, there was a visible pause in the movement of his chest). I was wise, I was brave, I was evolved, I was everything he would ever wanted from a woman. I was funny. He had such a great time with me no matter what we did together. I was fit. I was strong. He would send me fifty text messages a day telling me how much he loved me and how much he missed me and how even exchanging text messages he would be aroused, and how he was so attracted to me. He would bring me roses, buy me jewelry, music, wine, etc.
The pity play
Pity play began almost at the same time. He told me how abusive his parents were. How his mom used to scream at him and beat him. How his father was always dissatisfied with him and how he was refusing to tell him that he was proud of him to this day. How his parents’ divorce when he was 20 affected him because he was put in the middle. And then it was his wife and how she cheated on him with many men including his closest friends, and how she got pregnant many times and had an abortion every time, how he knew it was because those were not his children, how she gave him a genital wart and he had to have surgery to remove it. Then it was his ex-girlfriend and how she was dependent on drugs and him and she would not let go of him and how he could not leave her because everyone in her family had abandoned her after she had disclosed that she had been sexually abused by a family member. And how his boss was treating him just like his dad did and how abusive the boss was, etc.
From that point on, we had four months of amazing time together. Retrospectively that was the “honeymoon phase of our relationship.” Also retrospectively I see that things were moving very fast. Only a week after we met, he was telling his mother that he has found the woman he wants to spend the rest of his life with and in the first month of our relationship he bought me a ring as a present. It was not an engagement ring and he did not propose but he emphasized that he had never given a woman a ring before.
Many women
Very quickly he started introducing me to his friends. He “could not wait.” We went and visited his mom in Rhode Island for Mother’s Day and she liked me and my seven-year old daughter very much. She told him “she is beautiful not only on the outside but inside.” In that trip I also met his father, his stepmother, and two of his three brothers. During my visit, his mom told me that he has brought so many women home that she had told him “no more women unless they have a ring on their hand.” I looked at him, he laughed and pointed to the ring and said, “she has a ring.”
That was the very first time I questioned him. I told him I thought taking me to his mom was something special. He became very defensive and angry. He said after his wife of five years left him 18 years earlier, he had been single and dating and “naturally” had met many women. He said he had taken about five of them home but not to introduce to his mom. He just invited them to join him in the trip to his hometown. He said he had taken only two women to introduce to his mom as people he had considered marrying. He was upset with me for a couple of days after we returned but then sent me an email and apologized for his mother’s “insensitive” remark and his own as well.
On another occasion when we were staying with one of his friends when his friend’s 8-year-old daughter asked him why he did not bring his “other girlfriends.” He asked who she was talking about and she named a few names! He did not respond but I immediately felt like a number and completely disposable. I discussed how it made me feel with him but his universal response was anger and blaming things on me, my “insecurity,” my “fears,” etc.
Borrowing money
Very soon he prepared me for borrowing money. He told me how someone had scammed him on paying his student loans and how he had all this debt to pay but it was all going to be clear in a couple of months. How he had been helping a friend in advertising for his business and how he was not paying him and how there were thousands of dollars he would be receiving soon from him. How he was so responsible with money and he would never use a credit card and only use debit card so he knows he only spends the money he has. How he would appreciate it if I put costs of all the activities we were doing together on my credit cards and once his student loan is clear, he would pay me back. Soon he would ask me to put charges related to his canoe club on my credit card promising that once he collects money from members of the club, he would pay me back. Once his boss fired him, he could not pay for his bills and rent and he would insist that he could not borrow money from me. He had gained my trust at such a deep level that I handed him a blank signed check and then he wrote close to $2000 and cashed it. Later on when I asked him to pay me back, he said he neither had the money to pay me back nor he owed me any money.
Three phases
As described in any typical relationship with a sociopath/narcissist, our relationship had three distinct phases: honeymoon, tension building, and finally violent phase.
In the honeymoon phase even when we text messaged or talked he would get aroused. Whenever he saw me, whether it was an act or a true reaction, I could visibly see his chest would stop moving and he would take a deep breath and would tell me, “you take my breath away.” He could not keep his hands off me and we made love twice a day when we were together.
In the tension-building phase, our sex life suddenly went from what I would rate 10 out of 10 to 1 out of 10. This was so sudden and so drastic that I suspected he might have developed erectile dysfunction. He no longer initiated having sex with me and when I did, 9 out of 10 times he would say he was “tired.” Other excuses included being “busy” or “depressed.”
This went on until November when I found hundreds of pictures of naked women he was having “cybersex” with on his laptop. There were some emails suggesting he had invited these women to meet and have a drink and “see where it goes” but I had no proof this had actually had happened. He adamantly denied having a physical relationship with any of them. I broke up with him for a week but he asked for forgiveness, cried and said he has had sex-addiction for five years and now is going to get help and promised he would stop doing it right away. I got back with him but our sexual relationship never improved.
Self-centered
Regardless of how legitimate my question or concern was, his very first reaction was always becoming defensive and turning things around and attacking me. This was always followed by a few days of completely shutting me off, not contacting me and even ignoring me when I reached out. Early on in our relationship, after a couple of days, he would contact me and apologize for his reaction. But after the honeymoon phase, the days he would shut me out became longer and longer and no apology was offered. Instead, over time he would build up a grudge and become punitive. In response to many red flags in his behavior, he would accuse me of being insecure, having fear-based reactions, having no impulse control, blowing small things up to huge problems, being depressed, being anxious, not exercising enough, at one time sleeping too much, in another time sleeping too little, lack of self-confidence, etc. At the end he said I was crazy, I was fucked up, I had taken joy out of his life, I had brought negative energy into his life, I had made him depressed, he was not excited to see me anymore, he did not want to be around me and he wanted me out of his life.
By then I had recognized how self-centered he was. It was never about me and my needs. It was only and always about him and no matter how much I gave, he would feel his “deeper needs were not fulfilled.”
Violent phase
The relationship moved into violent phase and beginning mid January, on multiple occasions he tried to hit me and even choke me. This was particularly dangerous three weeks ago when I discovered many text messages on his cell phone indicating he has been sleeping with multiple women during our relationship. When confronted him, he described details of his sexual relationship with this women behind my back, without protection, like he was talking about weather. He had no remorse and no shame and did not offer an apology. He hurt me with such a righteous indignation and entitlement that it was beyond my comprehension. His absolute callous disregard for my feelings and legitimate needs were astonishing. He continued to blame everything, including his cheating and lying to me, on me.
Upon discovery of undeniable truth on his text messages and speaking with the women involved, I left him. I did file a police report but he lied through his teeth and police did not pursue the investigation. Following the tactic of offense is the best defense, he did file multiple police reports on me including one of harassment. He also filed for a protective order, which was denied. Currently I am suing him in Small Claims Court for the money he owes me.
written by Lovefraud Reader • Permalink •
bluejay says:
I read some posts today, totally relating to some things that were said by anitasee and midlifcrisis. My husband would make my head spin, especially when I wanted answers to questions about finances, providing me with vague responses or no responses. He usually communicates in a controlled, emotionless fashion, especially when a crisis is brewing. I have lived with an uneasiness in my gut for years, hating it. After reading your blogs, I know that it’s not me. He has always been secretive (especially about finances). I give up. He doesn’t seem to realize (or care) that his decisions affect me and our family. He definitely has created terrible crises, causing me to be eaten up with worry. I so relate to your stories. It’s helpful to read about other people’s experiences, having many “aha” moments. We are separated, needing to keep it that way for my own mental well-being. I can be obsessed recalling things that he said or did, needing to refocus my thoughts. My husband would tell me stories (I believed him), taking off for a few days, and then finding out that he lied to me about his whereabouts. I have said that he is the biggest stressor in my life, never having encountered another person like him. Last summer and fall is when I “woke up” and realized the truth about my life, our situation.
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kim frederick says:
Bluejay, yes, sometimes their emotional flatness is incredable. They don’t experience fear and anxiety the way that we do…they act like they haven’t a care in the world.
It sounds as if you are in the middle of the coming out of the FOG stage (fear,obligation, and guilt), trying to make sence out of the nonscence. Eventually it will either become clear, or you won’t care anymore. Just hang in there, and keep coming back here.
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midlifecrisis says:
Greenfern – sure you will enjoy it – check out the store for other titles to search for like the Sociopath Next Door
Bluejay – I can so relate to the evasiveness about money – mine didn’t care that what he did affected me at all. He either couldn;t understand that he was taking my choices away or just didn;t care – probably the latter. Try to stay strong in your separation – don’t go back. It only gets worse if you do. I went back and that’s when he really acted up and instead of hundreds of dollars missing, it was tens of thousands that he couldn;t account for. All wasted on nothing tangible for him alone. If you go back you can expect a similar ‘stepping up’ of financial and other forms of abuse.
Be sure to protect your own finances and financial ratings – they aim to destroy not only their own but our credit ratings. I am pretty sure he will end up bankrupt and would have aimed for me to end up that way too. Selfish to the core. You have broken the spell though and sound like you’re in a good space for yourself – able to see him for what he is. I agree it is helpful to read other stories – we see the similarities in our own experiences and realise we are not alone in what we went through.
Keep posting more as more insights come to the surface – stay here and stay strong
Kim yes the flatness – he actually had the audacity to say to me “You worry too much.” I wouldn;t have had to worry if he hadn;t kept creating stupid crises in my life and then leaving them for me to sort out for him. I was a nervous wreck by the end of it.
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lostlittlegirl says:
Anitasee, midlifecrisis and bluejay;
Thank you for sharing your stories– after reading the previous post on the Biederman coersion theory and your stories, I realize that what I went through wasn’t all in my head. That and what little I knew about what happened to my ex-sisters in law. The isolation and calculated manipulation of the physical and mental environment in the home and the relationship was a deliberate effort to produce a specific result. I had no idea this was possible–or that any human being was capable of it.
Marcia,
Thank you for the wonderful article. It was an OMG moment when I read it. Do these guys have a “How to” manual or what? The similarities that crop up in soo many posts, the way they succeed in multiple relationships. The blaming of all the previous partners was what I got, too. In fact, no one in his family was at fault for anything and he became extremelydefensive if I dared to question anything they did or said. He wouldn’t even stand up when they threw the baby in the air or kicked our dog. They were all above reproach and their opinions were superior to everyone else’s. (This really bothered me because I’ve always tried to give people the benefit of the doubt.)
Also, the “flatness”–the lack of affection in family relationships and sibling’s marriages and also in him after the honeymoon phase was over. it’s like he checked out emotionally, even during intimate relations. Knowing what I know now, he stopped saying my name for fear of blurting out someone else’s.
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Aeylah says:
7 weks NC and I was having a delusionary weak moment last night and this morning questioning again if maybe he really wasn’t “all that bad” and I just “blew it out of proportion”…once again.
I missed all his “goodness”; his healthy eating habbits that match my own, the ballroom dancing, the bike riding for hours and having fun, the new hobbie he took up in oil painting and including me in it, the traveling to distant lands, the diamond earings he gave me for Xmas and the cute way he wrapped them enside 10 different boxes till I got to them…..deep enside, the crazy sex…….
Then in sadness and confussion I came here to LF and read all these posts and felt the FOG lift….reality set in; same behaviour patterns, different variations in a 3 1/2 year peiod:
For all the “goodness” and loving times, they were allways fallowed by him creating chaos out of nothing, the surprise attacks of something said or done to completely throw me off balance, make me crazy and find a reason to blame me for it. Break up, punish me with the dissapearing acts or cheating with other women.
He had money….lots of it….he used it to exploit me, bribe me with it and rob me of my time, my energy and ultimatly to compromise my career and job. He used to tell me “move in with me and you’ll want for nothing, you’ll allways have food on the table, clothes on your back and a roof over your head…all you have to do is take care of me and put up with me”….”If you don’t do it someone else will”! Boy did I think I was going to loose out on something great. He said “sign over the mortgage of your house to me, and I’ll pay it off and give you a little something to hold you over”…..Thank god I had more sence than to do this.
I saw how he would blow thousands of $$ on playing the stock market, buying equipment he didn’t need, yet he was cheap whith me and his family….example while being un-employed I had to pay for the only decent meal we ate while on a road trip outside of a McDonalds.
His lovebombing was soooooo huge, that I lied to myself time and time again that he really loved me cared about me when he went disappering for hours or days at a time with vague excuses, hid his phone, went outside to talk on the phone, lied to me about visiting with his kids, walked out on me contless times at dances only to tell me he was doing it for my own good so I could go on and have fun while he was tired. Canceled a trip abroad with me 2 days before departure day only to show up at the airport at the last minute….kicking me out of his house last year when he got bored and tired with me a week after throwing a 50the birthday party for me………and allwlays, allways comming back begging foregivenss and promising 4-ever love…..telling me “you’re the only one I want to spend the rest of my life with” .
I went NC with him last year for about 5 months after he was so mean and cruel kicking me out….yet I took him back when he came begging for mercy because he was sick with prostate cancer and was having the surgery. “Your the only one I trust to be there for me at the hospital and look out for my interest” his said…I resisted until he persisted and I gave in and took him back in September. He had the surgery, had an “epiphany” that he had to change his evil ways and that he needed me, I was the love of his life….this lasted only till December, 3 months….the longest he could go abuse free in the cycle, untill the old sex addiciton came back….only this time he had medical ED and couldn’t perform like before so he started violating me to get his rocks off…..he was punitive if I didn’t give in to him….he would withdraw affection, become emotionally flat and distant so me like the confused twisted loving person I am…I thought I needed to tolerate his form of sexual abuse for the man I loved. I didn’t feel good about myself, I knew I had to end this sick relationship, but I clinged on for fear of being alone and fear of having another failed relationship in my personal history.
It all culminated in the creshendo of the hollidays and my birthday when he broke up with me in a cheezy no-tell-motel (though he could afford the Ritz) at 4:00 in the morning telling me he was “tiered of pretending to want to be with me and we’re finished” 3 days after giving me the diamond earings for Xmas and promesing his 4-ever love through our golden years! ….This while we were on the road trip from hell. In a state of shock I pleaded and we made up.
My birthday on Jan. 6 was allways another sore spot. Year after year he allways exploded, devaluated me and disreguarded me on this day. (his mother’s birthday is the same day)! This year was no different. He spent that afternoon with another woman …..and got furious with me when I confronted him with it, telling me I was “making a big deal out of nothing” because he wasn’t interested in her romantically! never mind it was the same woman he had left me for before….he then booked a trip overseas with her wile still with me….lying to me that he had not, (I only found this out after I finallly kicked him to the curb). He had the arogance and the gull to ask me if I would still help him with his studies and project after telling me he had made dinner plans with the woman the following Friday.
I finally had enough….7 weeks ago I said no more for the last time….yet I still have these moments of missing the bastard. I WANT THIS TO BE THE NEVER AGAIN LAST TIME!!!!!
Thank you for letting me vent…this is the longest post I’ve written, but I felt I needed to clear my self of doubt of the N/S I was dealing with, and not get stuck in the delusion of HIS “GOODNES” and the dream relationship and persuant confussion I was in. So amazing to me that I could still miss the spathole!…
thank you LF for being here.
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ErinBrock says:
Aeyala:
Vent away……this is ‘how it goes’……we do have moments of wanting the ‘fantasy’ again…..
THEN WE WAKE UP!!!!
During these times…..remind yourself of WHY you left…..WHY YOUR much better off now…..and think of your future.
These ‘moments’ do get less and less as time passes……it’s all the’normal’ part of the journey.
Hang in there…..come vent with us ANYTIME!
XXOO
EB
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Aeylah says:
Thanks EB…. I really love this place!
I would be in the nut house by now if not for it!
love back acha!!!!
me!
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fooledonce says:
exactly! You hit it on the head. The point I would make is that all of the things he says about you, he will turn on your. I was so successful – then I was too successful. He said everything yours said to you. Even his mother said the exact same thing that she only wanted him to bring home a woman if he was serious. The entire family lies. Amazing to see the same thing happened to you. Made me feel much better! thanks.
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kim frederick says:
And wow, girl seven weeks. One day at a time. Keep it up.
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Aeylah says:
“Soldier of Love”…..My new anthem!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IR5_rTCi-Bo
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Aeylah says:
Thanks Kim…..I’m still fuming and got dinged today when one of my friends got all my clothes and books back from him and all the oil paintings I did were missing.
Funny thing is we allways painted at his house and he never would let me take any of them home…said this was our thing and did not want to share with anyone unless they came to his house!
I wonder what he did with all the oil paintings I did ….I had to excersize inmense control not to write him and ask!
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midlifecrisis says:
Fooled once – same here – the entire family lies – I’ve never seen anything like it in my life – they even lie to each other! It is considered normal practice in that family to lie constantly. Ii can’t believe the sickness of it.
Aeylah – I’m a bit further ahead in non contact than you but the same feelings and thoughts arise from time to time – why me> Why did he do it? What did he want? It’s so hurtful too isn’t it? We gave our all and really involved our hearts only to be kicked to the curb when it suited them. I had to dump mine in the end up but with his emotional flatness and vacantness he had checked out of the relationship years before. Then he made a fuss about me ending it formally! He didn’t want to be with me but didn’t really want the hassle of looking for a new target for food, adulation and sex – the audacity of them!
Keep going – seven weeks is a long time and you’re doing well. I am at fourteen weeks and the urge to contact still kicks in sometimes but much less than it did at the start – life is slowly returning to normal finally. And I am so glad to be rid of him. Don’t worry about the oil paintings – they always try to keep some kind of hold over us – it’s a calling card for later should they wish to contact again.
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ErinBrock says:
Fooledonce:
Read away, there is so much great info here….in the articles and members stories in posts…..
We can relate to so much….it’s very validating……
Educate and awareness is the key……
Good luck!
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Marcia says:
Thanks for everyone’s comments:
robxsykobabe: originally from Rhode Island he has been living in Houston for 18 years. So no not in IL. But NS have very universal behavior anyways.
Aeylah: same with his family. I should say his father can’t stand him but his mom enables him. Please keep in mind that NS starts with being emotionally neglected and abused as a child. In that case, I do believe parents carry lots of guilt because at some level they do know they are responsible for the pathology. Also, whether it is genetic or not, it is not unusal to have a sociopath parent as well. So they understand each other pretty well!
anitasee: yes we do INTERNALIZE. Partly because of constant criticism and crazy making, partly because it was not an accident they targetted us. We for the most part are self-cricitizing individual.
Southernman429: “It may be that in many of these situations, like mine, where the socio just leaves suddenly, that even though we know in some deep way that there is “something” wrong with them, but have not put the pieces together and have the knowledge of just what it is we are dealing with..(that was me)……” You are right. When they are the one who leave, we are left in an absolute state of confusion and loss. It takes studying them and their behavior before we can clear our mind and come out of the fog and see them for what they throughly are. Remember we were brainwashed.
midlifecrisis: It is a very typical pattern that NS does not dispose of the victim until he/she has found another one to be with. These people are extremely afraid of being alone. They are emotionally bankrupt and it is absolutely vital for them to secure another “supplier” before getting rid of the other one. Also please keep in my, there was never a “relationship” between us and them. We thought there was one because he/she made us believe.
this has become such a fantastically education thread. I will leave more comments later. I almost feel like writing another article.
thanks everybody
Marcia
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OxDrover says:
Dear Marcia,
I liked your article very much, but would like to comment on your statement that “NS starts with being emotionally neglected and abused as a child.”
I am the parent of a psychopath and the daughter of one. I was however not raised by my P-sperm donor, and actually didn’t meet him until I was a year out of high school. My P-son, happens to be in prison right now and for the past 19 years for murder, a cold blooded pre-mediated killing.
I have no doubt that my son’s psychopathic tendencies are greatly genetic, but I would argue with you that my son was “emotionally neglected and/or abused” as a child. Although no parent is perfect, my son had the advantages of being loved, cared about and was far from neglected or emotonally abused. In fact, he was almost an “ideal child” until puberty.
At puberty he morphed into a increasingly violent criminal (no drugs, either) just mean’er’n a snake! Still is! Very manipulative, and totally without conscience. While I do not think genetics are 100% why a Psychopath is a psychopath, I do believe it is highly genetic and can trace my “family” tree back several generations on my maternal side of the family of psychopaths who married enabling women, and on my paternal side of the family, my sperm-donor’s mother was clearly psychopathic and he as well. The best I can find out, her father was also probably a psychopath, who was married to several women at once and had at least 4 families of women and children. (BTW he was a Methodist minster) LOL
There are several women here who also are parents of children (young adults) who are displaying highly psychopathic traits, in some cases, the X husband (who may or may not have been around the child after the child’s birth) displayed highly psychopathic traits, and/or grandparents were also in that range, and while I am not trying to start an argument or a fight here, to blame all or almost all of Psychopathic/narcissistic behavior on the person being emotionally or physically abused or neglected as a child places the “blame” for the behaviior on the parents of said psychopath. While none of us are or were perfect parents, but for me to accept “blame” that I emotionally or physically abused my son and that is why he murdered the girl he killed, smacks of the way the police detective spoke to me when he called me after my son was arrested, blaming ME for the girl’s murder. I didn’t live in the same state, hadnn’t seen except once 5 months before when he got out of prison for his first felony conviction.
My egg donor DID emotionally neglect me and abuse me, but I haven’t killed anyone, and even if I had, it would be on MY head, not hers. The murder my son committed was HIS choice, and every crime he committed (many) were his choices, and he knew right from wrong.
Just as an alcoholic has a GENETIC TENDENCY to drink in excess, the psychopath has a genetic tendency to not bond to others in the normal way. It is more difficult for them to develop a conscience than for others, but just as the alcoholic has a CHOICE whether to drink or not, and may be somewhat influenced by “his raising,” they still have a CHOICE and not every alcoholic was “abused as a child” or can blame that as an excuse for their drinking even if they were abused as a child.
Just as a woman(or man) who married or falls in love with a psychopath is not “responsible” for his/her significant other being a psychopath, neither are the parents of a child who is a psychopath “to blame” for that child’s condition as a psychopath. In fact, many of us have done everything in our power to point our children in the right moral direction, and it has been the biggest loss of our lives that our children turned out to be adult monsters.
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Marcia says:
As I read the rest of the comments the following terms resonated with me:
Devaluation, Toxic Relationship, Two totally different people, Lovebombed, Oxytocin’d, and Mirage.
I also enjoyed Jewels’ statements: “I’ve been SUPpressed, REpressed, and OPpressed, but never really DEpressed.” as well as the term C-SOI (constant source of irritation)!
mjlyness:
Referring to “I don’t understand myself though. I still miss him or think I miss him. I don’t even like him – he is not a nice person. It’s not like I am losing this great guy. He’s selfish and cruel and out for sex, power and money, that is clear. Yet, I still pine sometimes”
Please do not question yourself. This is very normal for a victim of a NS. Please see the following link http://allabouthim.com/grieving-the-narcissist/ and this one http://www.facebook.com/group......opic=14244 and you would know it is normal.
Aeylah:
Regarding “7 weks NC and I was having a delusionary weak moment last night and this morning questioning again if maybe he really wasn’t “all that bad” and I just “blew it out of proportion”…once again.I missed all his “goodness”; his healthy eating habbits that match my own, the ballroom dancing, the bike riding for hours and having fun, the new hobbie he took up in oil painting and including me in it, the traveling to distant lands, the diamond earings he gave me for Xmas and the cute way he wrapped them enside 10 different boxes till I got to them…..deep enside, the crazy sex…….”
Same comment I made for mjlyness: Please do not question yourself. This is very normal for a victim of a NS. Please see the following link http://allabouthim.com/grieving-the-narcissist/ and this one http://www.facebook.com/group......opic=14244 and you would know it is normal.
greenfern:
Regarding “I guess he knew I needed that type of outside validation to feel my worth. He targeted me because he knew that I did not have a solid sense of self and I would eat up his flattery with a big spoon”. That is absolutely true. We are not just unlucky, we are SELECTED AND TARGETTED by a sociopath. Read the story of Dean in Hi Gorgeous! Starry Eyes and Toxic Lies
midlifecrisis:
I like the name Stalking the Soul and the terms ’soul murder’ and ‘murder by suicide’. To that add A Rape of the Heart http://www.americanchronicle.c.....view/38716
lostlittlegirl:
I am glad my story was helpful to you
Aeylah:
Regarding “punish me with the dissapearing acts or cheating with other women” that is exactly how I felt. He used withholding sex as a punishment. Regarding “untill the old sex addiciton came back”, I don’t believe it ever went away.
I also would like to make a comment on the term euphoria:
euphoria applies to both the victim and the sociopath. The victim is euphoric by a rush of Oxytocin/ “lovebomed” tha is hearing everything they have always craved to hear and the sociopath is euphoric by the rush of stealing heart and soul of yet another victim. For the victim it may be getting high from a surge of Oxytocin and for the sociopath from a surge of Dopamine but every surge is inevitably followed by a sudden fall. That is when honeymoon phase ends.
Dear OxDrover
Thank you for correcting me. I am sorry if I sounded like blaming you. Mistakenly I mixed sex addiction with sociopathy. It is said that sex addiction may arise from being emotionally neglected as a child. I do completely agree with you that genetics plays a major role in sociopathy/pscyhopathy. I am sorry again and thanks for the clarification
Marcia
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geminigirl says:
Here here, Oxy! My spath daughter had every advantage growing up. They were showered with love, but not spoilt. My ex had been sober for years,{he isa n alcoholic}, he had Polio when he was 15 which left him with one leg shorter than the lther, and with scoliosis of the spine. despite this, he learned to swim when we came to Australia so he could swim with his little girls, he became head of the parent teacher assoc. in 2 schools, to keep an eye on them,I was a teacher atone of their schools, and was a lso able to keep an eye on them. They went to everything they asked for, ballet classes, horse riding, ski trips, trips to the “Goldpanning” area of Oz, jazz ballet,kids over for paries, everything, The older one had straihgt A”s in every subject till she fell in with the punk crowd, {only condition of membership to their clan was to stip studying, so she downed tools overnight}. Left school against our wishes, ran away from home, Dad started drinking again as he was so upset by all this.So, the spath genes didnt kick in with her till she was past puberty.I know now that NOTHING we could have done or not done would ahve made any difference. She CHOSE to live this way, she CHOSE to hange out with the no-hoper crowd, she CHOSE to end up broke and without any paper qualifications to hr name,despite her teachers telling us she was one of the brightest students in the year, and could get in to any Uni in the country, even med. school, if she wished to.So, NO I was NOT to balme, neither was my ex, we did our best. Thats it.Love, Gem.XX
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Marcia says:
This is an amazingly insightful and informative Book: The Narcissistic/Borderline Couple: New Approaches to Marital Therapy
http://www.amazon.com/Narcissi.....038;sr=1-1
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Marcia says:
If anyone wants to obtain more specific and confidential information, leave me your contact information and I would discretely contact you.
Marcia
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Aeylah says:
Marcia,
Thanks for the Narcisstic Sex & Fidelity reminders!
It’s so pathetic how they use sex as a tool to control and identefy themselves with. Sadley it became the hallmark of my relationship with the S, the tool to bring me pleasure and torture me with.
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Marcia says:
thanks everyone
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Noordinary says:
Hi Marcia, apart from the violence. Although my ex did say he wanted to kill me once when I caught him out with some lies and when his wife took his children away after he left because she “he said she was controlling him” when in fact I believe it was the other way round. His exact words were “I want to kill her. I have been dreaming up all kinds of ways I could get rid of her and if I could get away with murdering her I would!” he pretty much fits everything you have written to a T.
My ex used the pity play technique after about a year into the relationship. He had had a cancerous lump on his head removed and then when I realised something wasn’t quite right about him I decided to leave him. He then told me he had throat cancer. It wasn’t until three years later after he had “gone into remission” a few months after revealing he had cancer that I realised that the whole cancer story had been made up completely. I also realise in hindsite he had used this to keep me sucked into the relationship which I would have left long ago.
I felt quite sick when I read about the whole sex thing. I agree that he too was a 10-10 and towards the end he was a 0-10. He even used the pity play for that one by pretending he did actually have erectile dysfunction at 34. Supposedly going along to the doctors and making out the reason he couldn’t have sex was because he was under so much stress from leaving his wife. I found my ex had a penchant for kinky stuff on the internet with both men and women so I had to get myself tested which was not nice. Oh and yes they dont like anything other than sex without protection !
It was later that I found out the stress that supposedly caused the impotence was generated from the fact that he had been lying for over a year about where he had worked and had for the last three months when he was finally living with me pretended to go to work for a company every single day when in fact he had been fired from them six months before along with being fired from another job only a year before that.
He could lie without batting an eyelid.
When I finally kicked him out his reaction was total disregard for me and sheer rage that I had caught him out with all the lies. He left me with a bills unpaid and refused to answer any telephone calls and then called the police in on me for chasing him for unpaid bills.
I haven’t taken him to small claims court yet although I was quite tempted to after reading this but I know if I do I will just have more headache with him. My chances of getting the money back are slim having since found he owes thousands of pounds in unpaid school fees for his children so I think its probably best to just cut my losses and consider myself lucky I got of relatively lightly.
Having said that I pretty much lost my sanity my own house in the process through counselling and not being able to work properly and coming to terms with going out with such a monster.
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Marcia says:
Dear Noordinary
Thanks for your comment. The emotional and psychological toll has been extensive in my case too. I have been thrown into major clinical depression and panic attacks. Going after your money would definitely bring major headaches into your life as it has brought into mine. No interaction with these sick people is going to be easy. They are reckless and cruel and capable of doing anything and everything and amazingly very “convincing” and “credible” to legal authorities. These are the kind of people who pass a Polygraph/lie detector test because they literally don’t have any emotional reaction to anything. Now you don’t have to ask me any question to get my blood pressure, pulse, and breathing go through the roof. All you need to do is say his name. That is how much emotional reaction I have to his man and everything reminding me of him.
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Marcia says:
See my blog:
http://tomderrah.blogspot.com/
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pollyannanomore says:
Marcia I have those same responses you describe to any contact from him – I generally ignore it, but it sets my heart beating fast, I breathe shallow and fast and get lightheaded and actually shake all over physically. My stomach tightens and turns and I feel in a surreal space – this sensation can last for several hours after one of his ‘bombs’. I saw him in town recently when I was with friends and although I didn’t interact with him and nor did he with me, I felt sick and had to get away. Even now he induces guilt in me as though I have done him wrong, when I haven’t. It’s some mindtrip and I am only now just starting to recover from it.
Many thanks for your article and responses to posters. I definitely felt raped by him in more ways than one. I felt violated and dirty knowing he never loved me and was just using me as a convenience for sex, supply and money – what a monster.
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Marcia says:
I dedicate this song to my betrayer
Kreator : Betrayer Lyrics
This is a song which I use to describe
what I feel
About people like you
No sense for humanity, no idea about life
This premise has been proved
You used my trust to satisfy your
brainless lust
Your word isn’t worth more than puke
in the dust
Betrayer
Betrayer
Misleader, you twisted things to satisfy
Deceiver, this greedy lust you can’t deny
How could I be so naive to believe
all the lies
You so easily told
I think I’ve learned my lesson too late
The story took time to unfold
Now I see your true face
Behind your mask, a cheat, a fake
Your word isn’t worth more than puke
in the dust
Betrayer
Betrayer
Ignorant twisted mind, maybe it
would help
To think before you speak from time
to time
Pretend to be a friend of mine
But you would sell your mother if
you could
For less than a dime
Intelligence lost, Brain deceased,
So you will loose, fall to your knees,
Guys like you I cannot stand
Maybe I must speak another language
before you understand
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Marcia says:
He is at it again. As predicted, just at fourth anniversary of meeting his new girlfriend, he is either cheating behind her back or has broken up with her and is looking for new victims. on match.com under name of tsurf512
http://www.match.com/profile/s.....e=tsurf512
marcia
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ErinBrock says:
I had a dream last night with Spath showing up in it as a ‘side’ character…..he came in….I said the below to him….and he disappeared from my dream.
I called him a CATFISH?????
A catfish is a bottom feeder…..that is all I can make of that.
It’s ironic (NOT) how we go to court TUes…..and today i get an email from MIL……and a few days ago….Uncle called….
BOTH asking if we are moving? (spaths family).
Hmmmmmm What’s up?
(I’ve gotta clue).
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OxDrover says:
EB,
Crazy??? Why would they think you are moving? That doesn’t make any sense at all? Something must be up –I don’t believe in coincidences where Ps are concerned. Your X-MIL and even Uncle are NOT YOUR FRIENDS. LOL But I guess you already know that, Huh?
Sorry you had him appear in a dream—even as a bottom feeder. LOL I’ve been pretty “dream free” the last few months so I am taking that as a positive sign anyway. Your dream might be because of the court appearance on Tuesday.
Blog’s quiet tonight! I think I’m gonna leave you “on duty” and go to bed early tonight! See ya! SWEET DREAMS tonight!
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ErinBrock says:
During that convo. Jr told the Uncle that we were moving to Arizona at the end of the year as a ‘throw off’ plant to see how the ‘rumor’ flys through the family……
He did that with my family too when he knew they were speaking to spath and telling spath everything he shared with them……so he ‘shook it up’ and started telling them ‘fake’ things he’s involved with so spath couldn’t find him.
At first he thougth i was telling spath what kids were doing-keeping him informed (NOT!)…..he came to me and said….why are you telling spath i play drums or i’m doing xx or zz? I assured him I didn’t speak to spath. Then I heard him talking to my mother whom he trusted…….and telling her he was riding horses and won a chess tournement. NONE OF WHICH HE DOES…….and I asked him why he told her these things….He said….to see if spath (he calls him by first name) leaves me a message next week saying congrat’s on the chess tourney etc… SURE ENOUGH spath did……and his suspicians were confirmed. Grama was betraying his trust and acting as a double agent….MY MOTHER!
That didn’t fly with my kids.
Unfortunately….yes…..we don’t trust anyone who has ANYTHING to do with the catfish. They all act as agents.
Yeah….I am sure it’s because i’m wondering if he’ll show up in court on Tues. I tend to have him show up in my dreams when these things are going on. More processing!
Yes….no one’s on tonight…..hopefully everyones doing something nice for themselves!!!
See ya tomorrow darlen…..
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OxDrover says:
Yea, that dis-information that you can send them through the back door is interesting isn’t it? I’m doing some of the same thing with P son and egg donor….it’s a shame the “Russian Spies” are our families, not only theirs, isn’t it.
Did you hear the news this morning—I know I have to quit watchingt it!!!!! Joran PROMISED TO TELL ALL FOR ONE MILLION $$$$$$, and his mother got a 6-figure pay out from some Dutch TV show for telling her story. AND THEY SAY CRIME DOESN’T PAY!!!!
I did see yesterday that the Feebees got around to charging him with extortion finally—not that they will ever be able to try him, or even get their hands on him.
Also saw where the Callifornia legislature agreed to give the Dugan girl 20 million $$$ since both the federal and state parole agents did NOTHING for years while she was in that tent in the back yard of the known rapist and sex offender they were supposed to be monitoring.
Well, it’s coffee time! Have a good day!
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FightAnotherDay says:
OMG
First of all, this is formerly “banana”
Second of all, if I had my wits about me, I could have written this story almost to a T.
I find it hard to write clearly and concisely about what I have been through.
I think this may be because I spend most of my time trying NOT to think about the “thing” that turned my life inside out.
My relationship with the Spath took me through many milestones; engagement, home-ownership, big wedding, childbearing, child-birth and child-rearing.
(I resent that a couldn’t share such meaningful moments with someone that was deep, real and true.)
Then he left, and once caught cheating, did just as this Spath did had the nerve to describe the encounter that blew it all. And of course he blamed it on me, or my family, or his child abuse.
bla bla bla!
My question every time we share these similarities is; were they actually abused/molested/sodomized (and this may very-well contribute to their lack of empathy and their sexual addiction) or is this all part of the PLOY?
My assumption is either they really were, and this is why our society continues to “produce” more and more sociopaths, more than any other civilization, or that they say what ever furthers their agenda.
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OxDrover says:
Dear Fight another day,
Darling some of them WERE Abused, but not even a hhigh percentage of abused children become abusers. Psychopathy is both a GENETIC predisposition AND some environmental components. They HAVE CHOICES THOUGH, just as a person who has a genetic predisposition to be an addict or alcoholic has a choice to DRINK/DRUG or NOT.
DO NOT FEEL SORRY for the creep. He knows what he is doing is wrong, mean, hateful, but it is about CONTROL and showing you who is “boss”—–BREATHE BREATHE and calm down. Take up Yoga or meditation, but get yourself calmed about this, letting him keep you in a TIZZY all the time will let6 him have control over your thinking and emotions. NOW is when you must keep your wits about you sweetie! Hang in there!!!! ((((hugs))))) and my prayers!
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Cat says:
Dear FAD,
I just read your post and my ex spath was NOT sexually abused. He is what he is because he was born this way. Nothing and no one can change this fact. There is no pity to be felt here.
Ox is right. He can tell you all the stories in the world, but there are MANY who have been abused who do not grow up to be this way. While my ex was abused by the many husbands his mother had, the more I found out about my ex, the more I came to see that he is just as I said, a person born with this disorder and I also think they used their pasts as an explanation for their behavior. It’s just a COP OUT.
NO ONE has a perfect upbringing and normal people deal with what ever went on in their childhood and let it go. It’s no excuse to go around tearing up people’s lives, hearts and souls.
Sending hugs and prayers,
Cat
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style1 says:
Whoa! Reading the post, I thought this woman and I dated the same man.. not totally but very similar beginning.. Mine’s mother loved me.. told him I was the first one that she really like and that I had class…at the end of the relationship he is saying things like “Were you raised in a barn.” If I did anything that wasn’t deemed right by him..In the beginning I could do no wrong and was told continually how beautiful, wonderful and how much he loved me and how ‘alike’ we were in sooo many things.. he was mirroring… towards the end when he knew that I was seeing through him.. he began picking me apart.. he would raise his voice and as if talking to himself.. say things, like see what you made me do..
I got out before it got worse.. they cannot stand to be seen though… and when they realize that you won’t be brought down to where ever it is that they are taking you.. they either begin the tear down or exit.. classic…
Check out http://www.womenexplode.com
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breathless says:
OMG! This post is SO great and although I know that it is months old and no one may never check back to see my response I so can relate to this story. I discovered LF back in July and I am so addicted to it and it gives me SO much comfort.My former S always blamed everyone and never hisself. His first wife was the blame for their failed marriage. He said that she committed infidelity with his cousin and got pregnant which is something very similar to the story on this post. Every ex of his was the reason for their break up and yes the honeymoon was just as it was described in this post as well as his lies especially about the pity party he’d given me about his parents. He told me that his father was a part of the NJ Mafia and that he’d abandoned him as a young teen and left NJ to head to CA as another mafia was looking for him(lol).Man he had some imagination. I knew there was something wrong with that story after his father befriended me on FB and seeing how accomplished he was in his career(definitely not something I’d expect of a drug Lord in a mafia) not to mention in speaking with him and his new wife on the phone I knew my S was lying. So I just thank you for this post. I understand how these sick men can make you feel like you’re going crazy. I can remember my head feeling extremely tight by the end of a week after I’d discovered the many women he’d been with and all his lies and up and down moods. Also he too told me after we became engaged that his mother too no longer wanted him to bring another woman home unless he was going to marry her. You know our break up was very hard and I am SO happy that he is out of my life and I pity his new wife now. She gets tickled at the fact that he conned me out of a couple of thousand dollars, but I laugh at her because money can be made to replace that what I’ve lost, but my life and sanity is sacred to me so I feel like I gained so much more than what she thinks she’s gained from tearing him away from me:)
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Ox Drover says:
Dear Breathless,
I know several people on LF who would pay more than a couple of thousand to get RID of their psychopath! LOL Whatever he stole or took from you was CHEAP at twice the price if it got you rid of him!
She is the one who got the BOOBY PRIZE!!!!! You got the LOTTO of LUCK!!! LOL
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trueloveistrue says:
I can relate to these stories.
i am still learning and reading the posts.
Unbelievable how accurate and matching these are to my experience.
Truelove
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Ox Drover says:
Dear Truelove,
I’m glad that you are continuing to read and to learn about these monsters, because monsters they are, and so much alike in so many ways.
Learning about them and others stories too helps us validate ourselves and realize that we are not the problem. (((hugs)))
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bluejay says:
breathless,
I liked what you said, “…but my life and sanity is sacred to me…”, as it should be for all of us. That is a great line, reinforcing the truth that we should fight for and defend ourselves against predators (who naturally would destroy our lives and/or sanity).
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trueloveistrue says:
Checked my e-mail(which I rarely do)..
And he had sent me a letter,after several months of Really NC,and a few tacky things we sent back and forth here and there..
This e-mail felt like bait,or a hook.
It made my heart sink because it was really unexpected.
I did immediately notice,that although it was deguised as a call for peace,or an extension of the olive branch,Not ONE apology or claim for his part of the responsibility was mentioned.
It was sort of like,”Gee,Its terrible something happened to you,and us,hope ya feel better,C’est La Vie”..
Not addressing the situation as if not one token of it had been even partly his fault(which I assume he believes it is all mine..)
I am insensed,baffled,and paralysed at the moment from disbelief,sadness,and old feelings of still loving this saddistic,
spath…
I thought of him today,for the first time in awhile,
missed the romantic things and the Love and Dreams I once felt were Real with him..
I am very sad..
I will not contact him though..
I am moving on with my life.
Literally..
Im moving to another city on Wednesday..
It is possible that he caught wind of this somehow,and is now wanting to keep that bond..
I really am glad to have found this site.
I do still love him,oddly enough,but my sanity and peace of mind is valuable to me,and I intend to protect it fiercely..
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one_step_at_a_time says:
truelove – you WILL get over loving him. it will take some time, but as you go deeper into understanding what he is, it will fade out.
What you describe is well known to many of us – the gaslighting, the smoke and mirrors, the admit no deed at all costs attitude – it’s all standard fare spath communication.
keep focussed. delete the email if you have no legal need for it – and block his email address – he doesn’t deserve access to you and neither do you deserve to lose energy to his bafflegab.
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Ox Drover says:
Dear Truelove,
One’s advice is good, and true, it will fade out, but will take time, and I am glad that you are protective of your peace! Even if he HAD said “Oh, my dear it is all my fault” —you can believe it is a LIE. They will never believe it is any of their fault.
THEY ARE THE LIE, FROM HELLO TO GOODBYE! There’s an article here on LF by Aloha one of the early posters here about that, and it is so true!
Block him!!! Delete him! And good luck with your new move!!! (((Hugs)))
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one_step_at_a_time says:
hi oxy – how goes the die-et and your exercise today? It’s really nice to hear you gaining strength and momentum with your self care.
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WhyMe says:
I don’t know exactly where to post this article about narcissists from Huffington today, so I’m just gonna stick it here.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/.....72965.html
Narcissism and the Niceness of Wickedness
“Nice can’t be discussed without at least mentioning narcissism. This is especially the case with unsolicited and seemingly inappropriate niceness.
Narcissists are very nice until they don’t get their way. They are great charmers and can get most people to do and accept things that they wouldn’t in their wildest dreams imagine themselves doing or accepting. Narcissists are often very adept con artists.
Narcissism, in psycho-therapeutic parlance, is a term used to indicate a superficial personality type with a hyper-inflated sense of self to compensate for a grievously wounded core. They need a huge amount of support and reinforcement or applause to feel that they have any existence at all. These are people you will often find in the media, in Hollywood, in politics, in positions where they are leading, lording over, or performing for many people. We may understandably expect them there. But we will also find them in car dealerships, in schools, and in our neighborhood associations, because a narcissist is simply someone who puts himself in the center of the universe and fully, comfortably, and syntonically expects you to do the same for him.
As a result, what they want is paramount in any relationship — intimate or fleeting. They are people who don’t accept “no” for an answer easily because it so threatens either their plan, their sense of self-worth (which is actually quite flimsy), or both. In order to keep things moving where they want them to go, they will manipulate with sweetness and charm. If that doesn’t work, they will lie. And if that doesn’t work, in many cases (though not all) they will rage. Sometimes that rage is malignant and can result in profound emotional or bodily harm to others.”
Since J the SP left, I’ve had a narcissist experience, so this was very weighty for me. I had dated this guy, MR, in JrHi. He was the 1st boy I kissed, gave me my first diamond ring at 15. Hadn’t seen him in 50 yrs when he showed up at my door in late August.
He’d found out that I was living in this village “on the river”, so he’d searched me out, stopping at, he said, “23 houses” along the river roads trying to find me. I was sound asleep when I heard someone calling me from my back door. Eyes barely open, in my pjs, I recognized him (as a very very short man: 5’4″, tho he claims 5’6″!). He came in & immediately launched into his life story as I was standing there trying to get my eyes open. “Make coffee”, he said, & started telling me that his wife had died in May (the same wk J left me.) We talked for less than an hour & as he was leaving, he said he’d come back again sometime to take me to dinner in Austin. In his Corvette.
I’m not impressed by Corvettes, but, as you’d say to any old friend, I said, “sure, that would be nice.”
By the time he got back to his home 250mi away he was writing about coming back the next week-end & 2 wk-ends following for “our birthdays”. Whew. I tried my best to be kind & dissuading at the same time. Didn’t work.
A month after he showed up here, after our going to dinner 3x, my fridge went out. BUMMER! And then I had a minor wreck that nite. Double Bummer! And when he called & I pissed & moaned about it, he said, “I’ll be there in the am to get you a new fridge & will get your car out of impound & pay for the body work.”
I said No No No NO NO! But he was here by the time I woke up the next morning, demanding that he & my son & I go pick out a fridge, pick up my car, take it to the body shop….& of course, he’d be staying in town for 3 more days to make sure I was ok….& so we’d go to lunch & dinner for 3 days.
In Dire Straits, I had to accept his help, with the oft-repeated caveat that I’d pay him back as soon as I possibly could. I was precisely, unequivocally, almost brutally clear from the start that there was NO implied relationship between us. Fine, he said. “Same here…you’re an old friend, & I’d do this for any friend.”
And then, the same day, he said he was looking for a full-time relationship. I said NO. Not gonna happen. I wasn’t mean…..was purposely as tactful as possible….but was very firm. Very honest. And, of course, there was NO physical contact! Not even a kiss on the cheek! I did hug him once when he was leaving!
The next time he insisted on coming for a wk-end, I said I said I had plans. Immediately I got an eml berating me for everything I am & saying, “Have a nice life. You don’t have to worry about me anymore.” He sent me eml after eml about how hurt & angry he was that I’d turned down his offer of a LTR!
We had discussed the POSSIBILITY of his taking me on a vacation to Mexico for “as long” as I wanted. After the first mention of it, I backed off…..knowing that there was No Way I could deal with him on more than a “friends having dinner” basis. After I’d “turned down his offer”, he wrote that he’d been thinking of selling his house so that he could buy a place for us in Mexico!! The week after that, he wrote, “I’ve bought a Harley!” After another week of haranguing me about why I’d turned down his offer, he said he’d bought it becuz when we’d come out of a cafe one nite, I’d commented on a H-D, “nice bike.”
I’ve continued to tell him daily for several weeks that, yes, you’re a good friend, yes, thank you for your help, & no, no matter what you say, I will pay you back…..but he continues to write or call every day. And everytime I tell him (as gently as possible) that he needs to cool his f’n jets, he spins off into another tirade about my not understanding what he’s saying….& that he “can lie very well”, but that this time he wasn’t lying about his intentions..that he doesn’t expect ANYTHING from me. Then he said he’d gotten me a Visa card!!! I said, “Getting credit cards isn’t acceptable behavior between friends. Cut it up!”
This man is an absolute narcissist. He’s not physically harmful (I don’t think.) But he’s a very scary guy. These actions are not those of a Normal Person. I don’t see him as a sociopath…..but I certainly see him as a narcissist….his $ help’s been invaluable, but as I told him, “It not only has strings attached,(he’d sworn “no strings”) it’s anchored with huge ropes!” I don’t think he’d harm me, but his emotional/relationship demands are, to me, very narcissistic! I don’t know where this would’ve gone if I hadn’t been absolute in my position to begin with….I know I should’ve never accepted his help, but I needed it badly & told him it could only be a loan.
I don’t know why I felt I had to tell this whole story except that yeah, Niceness can often cover a multitude of hidden agendas! Beware of Greeks bearing gifts!! BTW, he is still a good-looking guy at 67, very well-dressed, & with a lot of $ to toss around—-just as he was in Jr Hi, just as he’s been all his life…..& also 5’4″, just as he’s been all his life.
There’s the “short man complex” w/ the added narcissism!
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one_step_at_a_time says:
Whyme – i’d find the money, pay this guy back, and sever all ties. he’s not normal, and you can’t treat him like he is. He is using the mixed signals you are giving him as fuel for his bs.
I know it’s hard when you don’t have money, i was eating at the food bank earlier this year and came close to being on the street…so I know, but you CANNOT allow people you haven’t had in your life for years to enter your life in that way – bad people will take advantage. and he has. You can make it on our own; you can find a way.
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Ox Drover says:
Dear Whyme,
I have been independent financially since I was 18, did borrow money while I was in college from my egg donor, but paid it back with interest in a timely manner.
Since 1994 when we built our home and she hers on our family’s farm (her father’s) I’ve still been financially independent. I’ve been employed professionally since I graduated college (I put myself through without any help from her) but she did not know my exact financial status (hers is quite comfortable) but she kept asking if I needed money, I kept saying NO, but she kept offering and actually was quite upset that I wouldn’t take any.
“Gifts” such as your “friend” offer are NOT GIFTS, but payments on CONTROL. By social conditioning we are OBLIGATED to those who have done us favors so if they ASK favors we feel obligated to give them favors “because of all they have done for us.”
What it amounts to is BLACKMAIL. You do NOT owe this man anything even though you have taken his “gifts.” Tell him to bugger off.
I am ADAMANT (as ErinBrock says) about NOT accepting gifts from people that are not true “gifts”—friends do help each other out but there are not strings on it. My best friend and I have always been there for each other, but we don’t keep “score” on who did what for whom, but it is NOT a one sided relationship either.
This man is indeed a narcissist, and a USER and he is attempting to BUY a relationship with you out of gratitude and guilt.
People who can be “bought” are referred to as “WHORES” because they SELL themselves for “money” or services, but an up- front, honest whore who says, “Okay, $20 for sex” is at least being honest and I can respect that. A person who tries to BUY favors and friendship from someone else when that person doesn’t reciprocate the feeling is worse than a “whore.”
Ditch this arsehole, he is trying to use you and you do not owe him anything. Pay the money back if and when you can, but tell him in the meantime to GET GONE and don’t let the door hit him in the ass!
Your assessment of his N-ism is right on. Give yourself a TOWANDA! But just because you felt desperate and took some “favors” doesn’t mean you sold yourself. He was just trying to buy. Now you know what the exchange is all about, so kick him to the curb. You don’t deserve to be treated like a whore when you are not trying to “sell” your friendship or affection and that is what he is trying to do. He took advantage of you being down.
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hens says:
I will be so happy when this election is over, talk about narcisisst and con men – I am hens and I approve this message.
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trueloveistrue says:
Thank you for the feedback Everyone..
I took your advice,and I blocked him now on all of my e-mail accounts..
I did a little more sleuthing and discovered that it seems he is still with the new gf… WTF?
Why try to “make good” with me?
Didnt even own up to his part.
Was he attempting to asauge his guillt?
My theory is that he’s probably knocked her up now(I was pg when he left me and we were engaged,and we actively “tried” for three months before I got Pregnant)..
He may be attempting to try and “cover his arse”,by sending a half assed(but a very sad excuse for an amends) e-mail to me.
I cant help but think that it is probably still “all about him”,and him trying to look like a good guy.
Probably worried that I would tell the new girl what happened to me..
i.e.-Left me while I was pregnant,etc.(Plus the violent episode)..
I was getting Sooo over and Done with him.
Still am,will…
But,there was no need for his e-mail in my opinion.
It has certainly opened up an old,yet still fairly fresh,wound for me..
The only thing I thought of was that he is trying to escape out of being “the bad guy”(even though Ive been ignoring him for over a month now)..
It only made me feel Angry All over again..
Now I am hurt and sad….Again..
What a jerk!
The other thing is that he could just want to know if I still love him,
so to feed his ego.
And the last theory I have,is that he just doesn’t want me saying bad things about him to our peers,since we are in the same buisness..
Quite frankly,I have said little to nothing to anyone!
It is not my style.
My good friends ,however,know the truth because they were there when he left me alone and pregnant…
It is probably a resentment I will not get over just overnight..
Regardless of his reason for conatcting me,I will not respond to this insincere,e-mail.
I am done with him..
But this really was just pouring salt on an already sore wound..
Thank you for reading my post.
So wish Id simply never heard from the bastard again..
I Had to Vent,and this forum has been so helpful informing me of exactly what Im dealing with..
I am feeling very hurt right this minute..
I will cry tonight,and hopefully, Never cry over this again.
He isn’t worth it.
He has no soul.
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trueloveistrue says:
PS-
My knee jerk reaction to it,made me want to tell him:
“Dont worry,Im pregnant again by my new love,and I have moved on.
Im happy now,and would appreciate it if you would no longer contacted me any more.There is nothing to say.
Sincerely”
But I didnt.
I deleted all his info,as you guys suggested. : )
Thank you.
I truly Am seeing someone else now though,and these things truly are being discussed.
Im back with an old bf,and he is a very kind,young,goodlooking,non-sociopathic guy..
*Clearly,in my anger,I just wanted to hurt the spath,but NC IS the only way to truly move on.
Now that he’s blocked,it will be easier I believe..
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