How Sociopaths Think
PDF When reflecting on the sociopath’s style, I often find myself thinking metaphorically. For instance, in an early LoveFraud article (Sociopaths’ Cat and Mouse Game) I explored the mind of the sociopath via the metaphor of the cat toying with the mouse.
In this article, I probe a different metaphor: the small child abusing the captured insect.
But a caveat’s in order: Just as I wasn’t impugning cats as literally sociopathic in my earlier piece, I’m not suggesting here that all children, including bug torturers, are developing sociopaths (anymore than in my last LoveFraud article I was suggesting that all practical jokers are sociopaths).
On the other hand, I am suggesting that there are states of mind—normal states of mind—that approximate (more closely than we might think, or want to think) how sociopaths perceive and relate.
And so I invite you to join me as, together, we watch a small child, who sits on a curb in front of his house, a daddy-long-legged spider in his clutches.
Let us not mince words: the child has intentionally trapped the spider; and he fully intends, and fully expects, to have his way with it. Moreover, he confidently feels that he has power over the spider to do with it, to toy with it, to experiment on it, as he wishes.
Does any of this, already, sound familiar?
But let us proceed: The child may (or may not yet) have formed an agenda for the spider—that is, he may already know what he plans to do with it, and how he plans to entertain himself with it; or, he may not yet know these things, but rather may be operating more impulsively, or perhaps taking things a step at a time.
In either case, as he stares down at the bug, the child does so with a feeling of omnipotence—that is, he has, and relishes, a sense of omnipotent control over the spider’s near and long-term destiny: he will be deciding its short and long-term fate. He knows that he can dominate the spider any way he likes, and, as we’ve established, he intends to exploit his dominance: the spider, he is well aware, will be helpless to defend itself against his designs.
And so, one by one, the child begins pulling the legs off the spider. He finds this interesting, amusing, and even thinks it’s a little funny. He wonders, fleetingly, in pulling the spider’s legs off, if this hurts the spider?
His curiosity, however, is detached and superficial, lacking compassion and empathy. For, although it strikes him that if someone were to pull his legs off it would surely cause unspeakable pain, yet his intellectual awareness does not translate into empathy for the predicament to which he’s subjected the spider.
(The child, in a word, fails to apply the principle do unto others as you would have others do unto you. Sociopaths, of course, notoriously forsake this principle.)
And so the spider might look a little funny with no legs. And it could be amusing to see the spider, as its legs are systematically ripped off, reduced to the size of a small nipple. And it could also be amusing to watch the spider try to walk with its legs missing.
All of these (and other) prospects for entertainment intrigue the child, and support his abuse of the insect. We can say this with certainty: in his relationship to the spider, the child is solely interested in how the spider can entertain him—that is, he is curious about, and interested in, only the gratification he can derive from the spider (and from, in this case, the spider’s predicament).
The child regards and values the spider purely as an “object” which, if properly manipulated, can yield him some worthwhile satisfaction.
And so the spider, now legless, doesn’t move. The child notices that its legs, however, which lie beside it on the concrete curb, twitch all by themselves, as if they’re separately alive and as though being animated by a mysterious force. This intrigues and amuses the child who, incidentally, has momentarily lost all interest in the spider.
That is, the child presently is no longer interested in the spider, but only with the spider’s legs (which of course he tore off), finding their twitchy, independent movements curiously entertaining.
I think we can safely add that the child doesn’t hate, or feel malice towards, the spider. That’s to say, none of this is “personal.” When he sat down on the curb, the idea of targeting a spider to exploit may, or may not, have been on his mind.
The child may have been actively targeting a vulnerable insect, or maybe not; maybe the spider just happened to enter his attentional orbit at the wrong time (for the spider), and in so doing primed the child’s exploitive inclinations.
In either case, it’s easy to describe what the child feels for the spider; he feels towards the spider precisely what he feels towards any object—appreciative of it only for the satisfaction it supplies him.
Short of this, the spider rapidly loses its value for him.
This is occurring presently: As the spider’s novelty is fading, the child’s investment in it wanes. He valued the spider purely, remember, for its gratifying properties; now, as the spider grows less novel by the second, the child grows increasingly bored with it. The spider’s value, its use to the child, is steadily, rapidly depreciating.
This could be good news, or more bad news, for the spider. As his interest in the spider expends itself, the child may decide to move on. He may be finished with the spider, and so he may, finally, leave it alone. The spider may have a chance to escape with its life. That could be the good news.
But it’s also possible that the child, seeking a last satisfaction of his thirst for stimulation, may decide, perhaps impulsively, to squash the spider, to crush it, like the bud of a leaf. And if he does this, it still won’t be personal. The child doesn’t have it in for this particular spider.
This particular spider merely happened to conveniently enough meet the child’s criteria as an exploitable object.
And so it’s 50-50 whether, in his boredom, the child will move on, leaving the legless spider to regroup after its traumatization; or whether, also in his boredom, he’ll decide to mash the spider between his fingers so he can feel what it’s like to mash an insect into a paste. That could be a curious sensation, which he’s never had (or hasn’t had it in a while).
He might find that sensation interesting, or maybe not.
And so comes the abrupt, anticlimactic end of our story, which was simply about the intersection of our neighborhood child with the unsuspecting spider.
Postscript: The child spared the spider, not from compassion, but because a cramp in his leg prompted him to rise, and stretch. But in walking away, the child inadvertently stepped on the spider, flattening and killing it. But even had he known this (and he didn’t), it’s not likely that the irony would have impressed him.
(This article is copyrighted © 2010 by Steve Becker, LCSW. My use of male gender pronouns is for convenience’s sake and not to suggest that females aren’t capable of the behaviors discussed.)
written by Steve Becker, LCSW • Permalink •
OxDrover says:
Well, Kim, you know the nice thing is though that you are gaining through your knowledge of Lit even if you are slinging hash with a smile….knowledge and education I don’t think is wasted if we use it for our own benefit even if we don’t make a living with it.
Maybe that knowledge could be used to write about psychopaths, or maybe you could do private tutoring for pay, put your thinking cap on and see what you can find to do with that education! You are a smart woman so use those brains woman! I’m proud of where you have come since first coming to LF, you have made some great strides! (((hugs))))
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knowledgeempowers says:
My daughter had a dream a few nights ago that I wrote a book about the P, that it was like a best seller.
I had a dream last night that the xP killed someone and was blaming me for it, rather rightening as hes is so powerful in his words (even though he has no power in his life).
Scary stuff.
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kim frederick says:
Knowledge, the person he killed, is a symbol for your relationship. He killed it but He’s trying to blame you. Your unconscience knows it wasn’t your fault. Is there a part of you that still thinks it is?
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knowledgeempowers says:
Wow! Kim, that is such a good interpretation!
When I woke it was more like the person he killed was someone else but I never did see the person though I think in the dream it was a reference to another woman he was involved with.
No, I am taking NO blame for the failure of the relationship. I did for some time but no longer. I did all I could to make it better. But I could not do the one thing he wanted me to, let him play his sick game with other women.
Very enlightening! and yes, I am sure without a doubt he blames me. He always blames someone else, never takes responsibility for his own problems, its always someone elses fault, when I was with him everything was my fault always, things only he was responsible for were my fault. So not surprising that the relationship ending was my fault also.
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OxDrover says:
Dear Knowedge
I had dreams for a long time about my egg donor, my P-son, and others, there was a “theme” in the dreams for a long time, and the “theme” was me taking care of something helpless while my egg donor or someone else stood by and glared at me, and in the meantime, by taking care of something or someone helpless in the dreams (usually baby animals or very ill old people) I neglected myself and my “life crashed” around me because of my own neglect.
Since the dreams were never identical, sometimes I would be caring for an old person, sometimes baby chickens, etc. I didn’t catch the BIGGER theme for quite a while, but onoce I did catch the “theme” I saw my own symbolism of my life in the dreams and I haven’t had another one like that in a long time.
I also used to have what I call “frustration” dreams where I was trying to accomplish something and something kept going wrong over and over and I could never accomplish what I was trying to do. I don’t have those dreams any more either since I saw the THEME in them that I “couldn’t do” things, that I would always “lose” and believe me I felt that way for a long time.
I think our dreams and the symbolism in them comes from our subconscious/consciousness trying to work out the kinks.
Thank God mine weren’t what I would consider night mares or frightening dreams, mostly just FRUSTRATION or symbols of my ENABLING and boy was that true, I was letting my own boat sink while I tried to rescue someone else and they were fighting me.
When you have always given more than you ever got from a relationship (in general) it is difficult to start taking care of yourself and using your resources for saving yourself, even if others deliberately drown themselves by not making any effort to swim for themselves.
I can see you have already made great progress in your Knowledge, Knowledge, and it DOES EMPOWER US! (((hugs)))
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knowledgeempowers says:
Thank you Ox,
Yes, I have been interpretting dreams for some time now.
This one scared me a bit though as he did use me to get at other people sometimes.
And, he would have ppl do things that he felt would protect him or show others have having intent when he was thinking somone may do something back at him.
He seemed to always be thinking ahead of the game so the dream was a bit frightening for me.
I am just glad I am out of it and away so I dont have to deal with all the sickness and sick intent on his part.
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OxDrover says:
Dear Knowledge,
I’m sorry it frightened you, but I can definitely understand the paranoia! “Just cause you are paranoid doesn’t mean someone isn’t out to get you!” (((hugs))))
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knowledgeempowers says:
Ox,
Tonight I told my daughter about the dream. She said, ya, he probably would too, plant your hair around the crime scene. I said, oh thanks for that! He has my hair! omg lol
Thank God its cut and no root on it!
It was a long distance relationship (believe, me it doesnt make it any better just means I didnt lose EVERYTHING like others here did.
She said, I am surprised he didnt chop you up when you went and met him. I told her actually, he was wonderful when I did, he had to make a good impression so he would come live here, marry me, get the will made (did this with two ex wives). THEN chop me up!
Thank God I was spared. He’s done time for trying to do away with one of the exes!
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geminigirl says:
If I tell you a very funny murder joke will you promise not to be shocked?!One of Billy Connellys.
This man {a Scot, naturally,} is boasting in a Pub that he has killed his wife.
“Aye, I murdered her!” His friend doesnt believe him so the criminal says hell take him to his back yard, where he has buried her.
The friend sees a naked bottom sticking out of the ground.
“Why did you leave her with her arse stickin oot? “He says.
The murderer says,
“Because I needed somewhere to park my bike!”
Very naughty but funny!
Gem,{who is a scot, but half french!}
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hens says:
gem – u ‘cracked’ me up – lmao – thanks..
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ErinBrock says:
MammaGem:
I’m cracking up along with Hens…..
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kim frederick says:
Knowledge, Your X sounds like he could be dangerious…I hope you stay a long way away from him.
Do you ever watch, “Forensic Files” ? You’d be surprised how many times a woman goes missing, her husband is the prime suspect, they find evidence to convict, and then find out he’s had two or three previous wives who dissappeared, mysteriously….Please be careful.
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Twice Betrayed says:
Oxy: Ok, will go buy a skillet….actually, I have an iron one. I will just keep it close by me.
Guess I need to…cause today is my older daughter’s BD. She’s in my mind remembering when she was born, little and I fought so hard to protect her from her dad’s bad behavior, raised her by myself, only to come to this…yeah, I am mourning.
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OxDrover says:
Dear Knowledge, I’m with Kim, your X soounds like a BAAAAD guy. I take it you met him on the internet? My son C met his P-Xwife on the Internet, she was looking for a meal ticket, and she found one and when she got ready to discard him she and her BF decided to kill him and almost got away with it, so you know, those “true crime” shows could ONE DAY FEATURE US if we are not careful—so you know MY opinion about internet meet ups and dating.
A friend of mine (male) met and married one and she was a TOTAL con job, and he caught on as soon as the honeymoon was over, in like a week, but she went back to her state and opened dozens of charge accounts in his name and ran them up. I don’t know if he ever got that part straightened out.
I can name you a bunch of folks who married or seriously dated them and NOT one was a real success. NOT ONE.
So I don’t like those odds much better than the lottos’ odds, so that is why I don’t buy tickets.
TB–I am sorry you are having a bad day today. I know what you mean about remembering the prescious little baby you had and that charming toddler and pre-schooler, I know that so well, and the thing is, I had to SEPARATE that wonderful little by-gone child from the ADULT that is a stranger, a TOXIC stranger. We all lose those babies, they grow up, but the babies are supposed to be replaced by ADULT friends that we enjoy and grandkids that remind us of those babies we lost, but we don’t have to take responsibility for those grandbabies, just love them. That’s not the way it works out though, and you and I know that for sure. I used to want grandkids so badly but now I am glad I don’t have any biological ones and probably won’t have, because I sure as heck don’t want those genes passed on.
Sure we MOURN for those babies that are gone, and our visions of those babies growing up to be our adult friends. I wished for that too, TB but I think there are worse things than NOT having those dreams come true and that is to mourn for them forever. We have to acknowledge the TRUTH even though it hurts, then mourn it, and come to resolution with it, acceptance of it for waht it is. (((Hugs))))
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Devastated1 says:
Just how, pray tell, does a legless spider “regroup after its traumatization”? A legless spider’s only hope is that their victim will finish them off. The fact that mine didn’t has only left a mutilated body on the sidewalk, with no way and nowhere to go.
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OxDrover says:
Dear Devestated1,
I think that most of us have felt like that “legless spider” left on the side walk, but somewhere inside of us there is still a spark left that makes us, like the lizard who has lost its tail, start to regrow those missing limbs.
It takes time and patience, but we can “regroup” and recover and walk again. There are times I felt like I had no legs and I crawled over the ground dragging my emotional body behind me, but now I am standing again, walking if not running, and I realize I will live, I WANT to live, and I want to go on with life.
I read an article today in the NY Times written by a nursing home doctor who went in to see a 93 year old woman, whose husband had just died (after 73 yrs of marriage) The doctor asker her how she felt about losing a mate after so long, and she said “relieved-it’s heaven!” She had stayed in an abusive relationship for 73 years, but eventually she started to live again. To enjoy life—even if late, it was BETTER LATE THAN NEVER!
The FIRST day of our new lives is when we get away from the predators who suck the life out of us. I hope you are away from the vampire who tried to suck the life out of you. I am 63 and only recently starting to live, but life is GOOD! (((hugs))) and God bless you.
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jelltogether says:
Reading a lot of the posts on here. I almost feel funny saying this but why am I still struggling with these feelings. I am having a hard time with not feeling numb. It has only been a month of NC. I feel like I want answers that will never come, my intellect tells me one thing but my emotions are screaming why, why why. I have a hard time concentrating at work. I feel that somehow behind everyone who realizes that they have been with an Spath and are so angry. I am angry but my hurt is overwhelming the anger. Has anyone been here or do you just go into the extreme anger? Why am I not there. I try not to concentrate on the hurt but my mind just swirls around it and I feel so depressed. I feel like I have been raped in some way. Does anyone understand or have advice how to move out of this state. I want to be furious and cannot understand why I am having a hard time getting there!! Help!!
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knowledgeempowers says:
Thank you Kim and Ox,
Yes, he is a baaad guy. He didnt tell me about the ex and spending time in prison until he absolutely HAD to. While I always had my doubts he told me that she had tried to run him off the road, that she was a drama queen and therefore he was convicted.
He had been married twice and spoke to me about wills with each of them. The second one (the one he was imprisoned for) had put off doing the will, I am sure she had her doubts going at the time.
Dont worry, three weeks nc!! YEAH!
I have no plans of ever talking to him again. I am glad he has little or no money or I would fear he would show up here.
He once told me if I ever left him he would track me down.
Yes, I met him through the internet not a dating site though. I am avoiding that place also and have removed all contacts. He could contact me if he wanted but has not, at this time.
I can assume he is either done with me or may try to contact again when he bores of his worthless life or his other playmates no longer suit his needs and he is bored.
I do maintain one contact location just to monitor his online status so I know hes still there and not on his way here.
Can’t believe all I put up with, just amazed at myself for falling for it all. I really thought I had met the man of my dreams, its a disappointment to realize hes really the man of my nightmares.
Steven Kings the stand was on last night. Russell, the human form of the devil gets angry, when this happens he turns into the devil (special effects! gotta love them!). Wow, I saw the xP in this, with his anger and control. I had to change the channel so I wouldn’t have another nightmare.
Thanks all for your input!
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knowledgeempowers says:
Dear Jell,
Yes, I have been there, I would suggest you devour any articles written about P/S’s. It does help to reinforce that what you had with him was not real, it was all fake on his part.
The strongest thing for me, to help me move on, was understanding that all the I love yous meant nothing to him, that its all just words, that because they can not FEEL love it makes it all just empty words.
Be sure to think (if you must think about him), of the BAD times, of the lies, the empty promises, not the good times, because those were just part of the game to get you to fall and not real.
I hope that helps put things into perspective for you.
Take it a day at a time, do things for yourself, get out and walk, eat properly, sleep as best you can.
Find something you enjoy and do it, just live life, soon you will find a sense of independence and well being outside of the hurt, it just takes time…just time.
The hurt wasnt inflicted on you in a day, it wont take a day to heal, but each day you spend away, in nc, the stronger and better you will be.
Hang in there it will get better and repeat this mantra daily, over and over, I WILL NOT GO BACK!!
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jelltogether says:
Thanks Knowledge! I feel weak somehow that i feel this way. I go through the motions every day. I read my journals and just realize how many times I have been devastated by this man. The financial costs, the emotional costs are just overwhelming. I cannot get over that he could be professing his love to me one minute and probably be professing it to this other woman the next. I know that his interest in her is in large part financial, he can talk her into doing things for him just like he did me. I feel incredible shame that I didn’t listen to the many people who told me to stay away from him over the years and now I am paying the ultimate price by having him give me herpes. I feel that instead of hitting me like he did with his other women, he killed me ultimately by making it almost impossible for me to enjoy a sexual relationship with someone else because I will have the embarrasment of telling them about him and what he gave me. I am depressed yes but I want to get fighting mad. I feel like he just can walk away and I don’t get to walk away and somehow it is my fault because I BELIEVED in him. I bought all the lies and excuses he gave me for his behavior. He had the nerve to tell me that it was my fault he left me and to top it off that I shouldn’t “bug” him if I had to talk to him about the divorce!! I feel sick with disgust that I even went out with him all those years ago. The funny thing was that I didn’t want to and he wore me down. I had just gone through a bitter divorce and told him that I didn’t even believe in love. He told me that he would show me just how much he loved me–Oh boy, he did just that. Twelve years I put up with this. I just feel sick.
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knowledgeempowers says:
Oh Dear, Jell, I am so sorry.
Its easy for them to profess their love to anyone and everyone because they dont feel it. I never understood how my xp could tell other women he loved them, I kept saying, those words are sacred! And those are sacred words, to people who FEEL it! Not sacred to those who don’t, its a hard bitter realization.
Your going through the stages dear, hang in there, your dealing with all of this as best you can. 12 years of damage will take a while to get through and processs but I am SURE you can do it!
Find the strength within you, dont be ashamed of what was done TO YOU, you didnt make this choice to let him in, he made it for you with all his lies.
Someone with a good heart who never had one of these in their life has no idea these people even exist. We fall into their traps with their lies and its hard to get out. But, you have done it! Now you just need to repair you.
I believed my P too, all of it, even when I had nagging doubts or I had a hard time accepting things, and he always made everything into my fault, while I knew things werent my fault there were things he said that made me doubt myself.
There is life after the P, there really is, you just need to find it and heal yourself first so you can be the best you can be.
Your going to make it dear, you are, its difficult now but your processing, each day will get better. Cast asside your shame, you are a survivor and THAT gives you reason to hold your head high!
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kim frederick says:
I’m sorry you’re having a sad day, TB. Wish I could reach out through cyber-space and give you a hug. I’m glad you posted though, and let us know…we’re thinking about you!
Jell, you’re right where you should be…you’re actually doing really well. It may not feel like it but you are experiencing the feeling that you have too, to get to the other side. Dump that shame though, that is a useless emotion and will only hold you back, but the sadness, and feelings of confusion and loss…those are all normal and to be expected…tthe rightious anger will come, and eventually you’ll get damned tired of that, wanting to move into the next stage, but the anger wont be done with you yet…it’s all a matter of time, and God don’t wear no watch…
Have you read Kathleen’s articles on the stages of recovery?
They are very worth-while, I hope you’ll look for them in the archives. Quit being so hard on yourself, you’ve been through
12 years of hell, but your on your way to a new life…..:)
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kim frederick says:
In fact, Jell, just let me add that most addictions are fuelled by shame…A very dangerous emotion for people like us, because it can actually propell us back to them. You must move beyond that, and fast. There are really good reasons why we get stuck in these relationships, so it’s time to learn what those reasons are, so you understand the dynamic, can forgive yourself, and never let it happen again……:)
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jelltogether says:
Thanks Knowledge, I think that is why I am feeling so bad because it is all just hitting me now. All the lies, all the hurt and all the pain. I know that this is the darkest period (at least I hope it is) and it is darkest before the dawn they say. Some days I feel like everything will be OK and then, others I feel so low and that everything will never be OK. Today is one of the latter I guess. I am going to see a therapist tomorrow who “gets” sociopaths so that is good. I don’t know what I would do without everyone here.
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jelltogether says:
Kim, you are right. Shame is a big factor. I know that it should not be me who should be ashamed. he should but he never will be. It is not something he can feel. I don’t want to take that on!!
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kim frederick says:
I know Jell, all I really wanted was for him to feel remorse, and be sorry for the things he did…Unfortunately even that can become a part of the sick dynamic, cause I’d kick him out, thinking I was punishing him sufficiently, and he’d come backwith his tail tucked (it seemed, never really felt anything about ME one way or another, just wanted a place to sleep and a bowl of chili, and on a good night a peice of ass…) and he’d put on a good show and I’d think, okay, he gets it and there we’d go down the primrose path, or as EB would say “rinse and repeat, over and over and over…ad naseum
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geminigirl says:
TB darling girl, I know EXACTLY what you are going thru. I felt just the same as you on my younger spath daughters 44th th Birthday, on 25th Feb. What I did was to call my REAL daughter, Roya, and hear loving words from her, I also went out and bought MYSELF a huge bunch of orange Lilies, in bud,{they are all out now in all their glory!}
There is NO PAIn like a Mother feels from a child who rejects you and “punishes” you unjustly. We have to remember they are SICK, but still STAY AWAY from them, as thet are TOXIC to us, a nest of vipers!As darling Oxy says, they are NOT our dear little sweet babies any longer, they KNOW what thy are doing, they geta huge kick out of it, they enjoy hurting us, they are SICKOS!!! We have to “bury” these sweet babies in our minds, and move on. Very hard to do, think of the Mother Bear, one day she just takes the cubs into the middle of the forest and LEAVES them thewre to sink or swim. Thats what we have to do now. Yes its VERY hard to do, but unles we want to end up like NewLily, we have to cut out that festering sore with a rusty blunt knife, as Oxy says, and without anaesthetic, and move on. I was reading recently about a mountaneer, a young guy, whose arm became wedged with a huge rock. Hours went past, and he could not free himself. he was getting exhausted and dehydrated, and night was coming on. Witha pocket knife, he cut off his arm at the upper shoulder, bound the stump witha handkerchief, staggerered back down the mountain. He saved his life, but lost an arm. If he hadnt done this, he would certainly have died. HE SAVED HIS OWN LIFE< and thats what we must do!!.Much Love, and {{HUGS!!}}} Gem.XXX
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Twice Betrayed says:
Gen: sorry so long in responding, I lost this thread!! You are right, I know you are. Thank you so much for your understanding and encouragement! I did go NC with my older daughter. I still have contact with my younger one-she will head game and kick me around some, but I love my GD by her so much ,I just take it some. When it gets too much, I break contact, and with this NC, she understands I am going out of her life and she shapes up and acts better. Wish she would just do it up front, but oh well…….
Signed: one armed Twice Betrayed….;P
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OxDrover says:
Dear Gem and TB,
Yes, it IS like cutting off your arm, but you know, it beats the heck out of the ALTERNATIVE.
The worst physical pain I ever felt was 22 hours of “back labor”—and I did what I “had to do”–there is no going back and changing your mind at that point or saying “do over”! If we (women) can endure that, by golly we can DO WHATEVER IT TAKES to survive.
Let us raise our ONE ARMS HIGH AND WAVE THEM!!!! WE ARE SURVIVORS!!!!
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skylar says:
Hi everyone,
I know the topic has moved on but I just wanted to comment on this article about the child and the spider. Maybe Steve can shed some light on a different persective.
As much as I agree that the sociopath tortures just because he can… in my experience, his thinking takes a further twisted logic once he decides to torture. My Ex-S would create situations to make me angry so that I would lash out and then THAT would give him an excuse to be cruel. In the end, he actually told me: “I want you to call me a liar, so I can feel MORE HATE TOWARD YOU! Then I can justify my vengence etc…” or something to that effect. But basically, it’s like the child making a spider bite him by scaring it, so that he can then justify the torture. Since there is no requirement that my ex-S justify his behavior from me, that requirement must have come from his need for a dramatic story. He knows he’s evil but it seems like his need for a story to justify his evil nature is what drives the way in which he manifests his evil. In his story, he has to be the hero – the guy who responded to events, not the one who instigated it. Never mind the fact that he DID INSTIGATE IT! He just overlooks that part.
Anyway, my point is that I haven’t actually experienced the S’s behavior in the cold, dispassionate way of a child toying with an insect. My experience has always been that the sociopath is either raging or laughing or faux crying. Always drama.
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kim frederick says:
Hi Skylar. It’s good to see you!
My x would always instigate a fight so he could justify going missing for a day or two…he was a crack addict and this justified his leaving…not being accountable etc….his motives may not have been pleasure in watching the spider whithe with no legs, but he certainly pulled off those legs, had an excuse for why, and didn’t care how the spider felt…of cource he always returned to the spider, angry that the spider was somewhat handicapped by the pulling off of it’s legs and always telling the spider it was too sensitive, that the spider ought to get over it, that the spider was too sensitive, and who was the spider to suspect that he had been malicious, or dishonest or…well, you get it…. Did I say that the spier was too sensitive?
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Stargazer says:
Hi Everyone,
I found myself up in the middle of the night. What better thing to do than check in here?
The article was very painful to read because I was the young child who tortured small animals. I cannot tell you how many tears I shed over this as an adult. I pamper my animals now and have rescued many others. But that in no way makes up for what I did.
My other response was to be so grateful for someone in my life who mentioned the word “sociopath” to me after I’d been toyed with for about 2-1/2 months by the one I was seeing. I knew something was very wrong and that he was playing some sort of game. But I’d never seen anything like it before. When I heard the word “sociopath”, I started googling and ended up here. Though LF is not responsible for my decision to cut the sociopath out of my life, I credit this site for my staying NC. Thank God I never let it get to the point where he took anything more from me than 2-1/2 months of my time and emotions. It took me about a year to get over it.
It has now been almost 2 years since I first met him. I can honestly say that I never think of him (unless I come here), and I don’t even really think much about sociopaths any more. I am learning to recognize unsafe people and get disentangled from them in a very short time. I hope some day that I will be able to recognize them even sooner. I wish I could smell them like Desi does.
Up until this week, I was feeling trapped and unhappy in a job with a very controlling supervisor. Many of my peers have had issues with this supervisor but everyone was afraid to speak up. I was also feeling down about everything else in my life.
I happened to watch the movie “The Secret” last week. In the movie, a guy was having a really tough time at work and hated his job and his life. But by focusing on what he wanted in his life, rather than what wasn’t working, he was able to turn it around in a very short time. Having exhausted all other options, I tried this. I decided I needed to talk with this supervisor. I had the intention that things would work out well. I gave her the benefit of the doubt that she was a good person and wanted only the best for me and the department. We argued for 2 hours and finally let our guards down. I felt better afterward, even though she didn’t concede to anything I asked for. But the next day, she called me and told me I was right about something. I felt elated. She had never admitted fault before. To anyone!
I told my peers what had happened. They decided that if I could speak up, they would too. So they sent in some comments for the supervisor’s eval that they were afraid to give for 2 years. They came and told me afterward that they, too, felt better. The rest of the week in the office, we were all having so much fun! All of a sudden, a very heavy and seemingly impossible work situation became very workable. My simple change of focus had a positive ripple effect in my office and in my life. The premise of “the secret” is that what we focus on is what we get more of. So if we focus on pain and hardship–even if we’re trying to get away from those things–we will just get more. If we can focus on something we actually want–and really put our emotions behind it–we will get that instead.
This supervisor is now getting so much feedback about her bad behaviors that she may end up leaving. But I hope she stays, because she has been one of my greatest teachers. That conversation with her was actually a turning point in my life.
Because of my abusive background, and the many years I spent living in reaction to it–even until recently, in my 40′s–I never was even able to imagine positive things for myself. Good relationships, good jobs, money….those were things for other people and not for me. So, even though I don’t have much experience with good relationships, I dream about them a lot and try to imagine them. My life has taken on a magical quality at this time, even though I am still delving into the pain of earlier and earlier parts of my childhood. My supervisor gave me some feedback, too, and it stung a little. But that pain triggered some old childhood pain which I am GLAD to deal with. I cannot believe I actually want to deal with the pain. I say Bring it on!
I have been devoting serious time to getting into good physical shape and eating very well. My overpriced condo is listed for a short sale. I finally feel I’m ready to move on and into a bigger place. I have some genuine friends to go out and do things with on the weekends. I feel a lot of gratitude lately. If any of you remember me from a year ago, my life was a mess, even though I’d gotten away from the sociopath.
I have been following the posts here as time permits, and I just wanted to post my progress, because if I can recover my life from some of the very dark places I’ve been, ANYONE can.
Love to you all,
Star
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erin1972 says:
I can’t believe how these people think that it is ok to torture other people like they do. He had a dependable ugly woman at home that had been his wife for almost 25 years when he met me. They had a nice boring life for sometime together. Prior to meeting me, he hadn’t stepped out on her in 10years-or so she believed. They had a comfortable sexless marriage. She had already taken him back three times before when he cheated with much younger women. Ond of his women was a very young resident MD that he was training-he was grading her and sleeping with her.
What the hell makes these men think that is is OK to do what they do? I know-they have no conscience, they are selfish, it’s all about them, etc. It is NOT OK WHAT HE DID TO ME. IT IS NOT OK TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE FACT THAT I AM AN EMPATHETIC, NURTURING, TRUSTING PERSON WHO IS A LITTLE NAIVE. I am no longer the same person that I was last year. It has taken me 11 MONTHS TO GET PAST THE HURT AND PAIN AND MOVE ON TO ANGER-11 freakin months to not feel like I’m going to die without him. 11 freakin months to feel like I will be ok! 11months until I could throw out the rest of his belongings that I still had.
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Zen says:
erin,
First let me ask, who told you they had a sexless relationship? Him ? If so, doubtful. You should not believe anything you were told by him without examining it.
There is no way to truly understand how they think as they are ‘wired’ differently. IMO it’s not just a matter of character, it’s brain chemistry. Not excusing behavior here or belittling your hurt or anger.
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OxDrover says:
Dear Erin1972,
I agree with Zen, he may have TOLD you his “ugly wife” was a shrew or that he hated her, and “only stayed for the kids” or whatever EXCUSE he told you he was with her, but that he really loved YOUTHFUL beautiful YOU.
He KNOWS he has NO right to cheat on her, and believe me CHEATING is NOT done because she is UGLY, look at Tiger Wood’s wife, that woman is much more physically attractive than any one of the women he jslept with, told he was going to divorce his wife for or any other lie he told his GFs.
The psychopath knows what they do is “wrong” but they DO NOT CARE. He Has NO respect for his wife and he has no respect for you. Never did respect any one. NO ONE.
It isn’t about her being ugly and you being beautiful, it is ab out he wants sex with whoever interests him today and he uses them like objects, tells them whatever lies he has to to get into their pants. It is like a new toy, and once it is no longer new you go get another one.
STAY MAD! Workk it through! Keep on being mad until you are tired of that feeling! (((((Hugs)))))
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erin1972 says:
the wife told me that THEY had not had sex in over 6 years. He had heart bypass surgery 7 years ago and told her that he was impotent afterwards-maybe it was an excuse in his mind for him to play around with others. I will never know. As I posted earlier-I was so in love with him that it has taken 11 months to stop feeling hurt and to begin to feel anger. His wife even said that during the time he was with me, he would get angry if she tried to imitiate with him. I don’t believe ANYTHING that EITHER of them say anymore. He may say it was sexless and she may agree but I will never know what it really was and that is the bottom line. I would NOT be at all surprised if he cheated on me. Just because he denied EVER cheating on ME-does not mean that I believe a single word her says. If he hadn’t cheated on ME, he would have done it eventually anyway!!!
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erin1972 says:
And the whole TIger Woods thing coming out everywhere is one of the reasons that I have had SO MUCH difficulty getting through this. I have heard all the things that Tiger told his many women and it was identical to what A*** told me. I am sick to death of seeing this everywhere. I use the word ugly a lot. She is UGLY-I am just speaking the truth. I hold a lot of anger for this woman because after she found out about us and kicked him out and filed for divorce, she decided to try to become my ally and used it against me. She did that whole-”keep your friends close and your enemies closer thing
with me and it was very hurtful. She admitted to me that she was plain and homely, that she stayed with him through all these affairs because he had money and he was a doctor. There is something wrong with her knowing what he is and continuing to take him back just because he has money.I’m sorry if it bothers people that I say she’s ugly, she also has no self respect either because guess who withdrew the divorce that she had filed for and moved back into the house with him 5 months later, after he discarded me! Then, she threatened to “take me down”. It’s really hard to explain myself when not everyone knows that whole story!!!!!!!
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Aeylah says:
Erin 1972
I second Oxi’s comments….I have to add….that the ex-S in my life used women like toys too!…he told me the only mistake Tigher Woods did was getting caught!
A medical condition like erictlie disfunction due to prostate surgery did not stop him from treating me like a sex object, or stop him from chasing other wormen. He is a sex addict and as soon as he was feeling a little better post op, he was right out there doing his ugly games.
You are in a better place, you will see the silver lining in the cloud eventually….know that his wife is also a victim but she dosent have the awareness you have to go through the pain of letting go in order to heal.
It’s never too late to make your dream job come true. Now you have the time to focus on yourself to make it happen!
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kim frederick says:
Erin, I soooo agree with Oxy, it had nothing to do with her “ugliness” or age. It had nothing to do with your youthful beauty, he takes what he wants whereever he can get it…In the end it seems, he had more to lose by losing the ugly wife, than he had in losing you….Like a house, and alimony payments, loss of reputation, humiliation in the public eye, etc etc. She may even be a warm comfortable habit….
Sex is NEVER enough to hold a man. I’m sorry you are having to live with the aftermath, however.
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OxDrover says:
Dear Erin1972,
Letting your “dream job” be DEPENDENT on anyone else supporting you financially is putting that job on a very shakey platform.
We can’t even let our jobs much less our happiness depend on anything except what we have within our selves.
YOUR expectations for a LOT OF THINGS that this guy gave you depending on his supporting you financially and emotionally. Now you have lost the EXPECTATIONS you had built up that these “dreams” would come true and you are mourning their losses just exactly as if they were REAL. THIS WAS ALL A FANTASY in your head. HE WASN’T EVEN REAL. The sex may have been great, but it doesn’t matter to them cause too them sex is only an ACT not a bonding or sharing.
You don’t bond with a wonderful piece of chocolate you eat, and they don’t bond with a wonderful sexual episode, once it is gone, they look for another one of a different flavor. They like variety, eating the same old flavor of candy gets boring after a while.
If YOU really want your dream job—YOU CAN GET IT. It make mean some reallignments in your financial status, but you can do it, YOU and ONLY YOU are responsible for YOU in this life. Make your own dreams come true by yourself.
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erin1972 says:
I know I can get it and I am working on that-paying off bills, lving cheaper, trying to save-etc. I am trying to ready myself for that paycut, it’s just REALLY REALLY hard knowing that I have to wait so long for it when it was right in my hands before. It makes me cry SO hard. I can’t stand it. It’s hard that I need this current high paying job to get there especially because I work with some of his friends. I work with some people who are JUST LIKE HIM too-undiagnosed sociopaths and narcissists. People talk about the large amount of sociopaths as attorneys, businessmen or cops-they need to take a look at DOCTORS and the medical profession-I bet more doctors are guilty than anyone knows, but I have also met nurses and techs that qualify as sociopaths. I feel like they are all around me, and to make it worse, there is so much O.T associated with this job, that I am around them constantly. I get nauseated everyday when I clock in for work.
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witsend says:
erin1972,
Maybe try and look at your job as another learning experience (working with these disordered people) to help you pave the way for your dream job.
As a police officer you are going to encounter many “sick” individuals. And learning how to negotiate with these people is going to be something you are going to have to deal with on a daily basis.
Your dream job is going to have its share of S/P/N,s. And the more understanding you have of dealing with them the better off you will be as a police officer.
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erin1972 says:
Part of what infuriates me is that some of these people are his friends and I know that he has done a lot of “trash talking” in this town to anyone who will listen. His biggest fear is his reputation being tarnished. His bosses and co-workers know what he’s done. The wife did some “trash talking of her own to let them all know that. It appears that most of them are standing by him. I have heard though, that he will never be promoted to any position higher than where he is now.
I worry about things being said to me about it. One of the doctors that he mentored was another female who now has a job where I work. I don’t want this following me for the rest of my life. The wife got a job at my old hospital and blackmailed me into quitting when I REALLY needed the money. She also bad mouthed me to a lot of people. My coworkers who used to like me a lot, now hate me a lot.
He did his best to make ME look like the crazy one and ME to look like a bad person and left his reputation and life completely intact and mine is a mess! What a stellar individual!!!!!!
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Aeylah says:
Erin19972,
I travel in the same social circle as the S and I’ve found it’s better to NOT SAY A WORD ABOUT HIM. DON’T TRASH HIM….in the end it only makes you look bad and like the crazy one. The truth about his character will reveal itself eventually.
Revenge will come, but let the laws of Karma take care of it. In the mean time, treat him and all his “cronies” as if they didn’t exist. You will win in the end.
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erin1972 says:
Aeylah-I haven’t tried to trash him and I haven’t said one word to his cronies-I keep waiting for someone to say something to ME. I used to love watching the Karen character on Will and Grace-she made me laugh so hard because she could get away with saying and doing things that I could NEVER get away with. That part of me still wishes that I could put a pic of him on a giant billboard in the middle of downtown next to the Superdome-next to the sign saying the Saints finally won the superbowl. I would love to have that billboard say-ATTENTION WOMEN OF THE CITY-if this man approaches you, run very fast for he is a narcissistic sociopath and he is DANGER. But I guess I will let my belief in KARMA take over. I do believe that what comes around goes around and he will get his. I am glad though that she took him back because this was such a huge blow to his rep and ego that if he thought that I was the reason for the demise of “this wonderful marriage”, I truly believe that he would have become very physically violent towards me. I believe that it would have created a much more traumatizing situation and that I would truly need to rely on my two guns for protection from him. I know that he has the capability of being violent. It is my opinion that he chose surgery as his medical specialty so he could cut on human flesh everyday!
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nic says:
HELP!!! I was the crazy looking one today. I went crazy LF and I am embarrassed to tell anyone about it except on here.
I saw my ex-h, his mistress whore and their son in the store today. Something just took over me. It was like a out of body experience. I yelled out to them “Oh, that’s the hoe? Why haven’t you seen your daughter since October?” I said more as I followed them. They decided to just leave the store so I guess I ran them out. That was my first time seeing her and their child.
I don’t really know who I was. I would have never thought to do something like that. He didn’t say one word to me. He did look awful though. His hair is thinning out more and more. The boy did not look like him at all but his two daughters look just like him.
I am so glad our daughter wasn’t with me because I don’t know if he would have ignored her or what. After I got in my car I just started crying. He is out with her and have written off the child I had for him. I believe in karma also and it could be happening to him now.
I just can’t get over that she had my husband’s son. He tried to get back with me all last summer but I turned him down each time. I am sure she wouldn’t have believed me if I told her that. I hope she gets everything he gave me and more!
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erin1972 says:
nic-that is what I fear will happen when I see mine again for the first time-especially if he’s with HER. I have had dreams of things happening but I hope it doesn’t go the way of those dreams cuz girl I could me a hot mess if I let myself go there. I could be nothin nice!!!!
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OxDrover says:
Dear ((((((NIC))))))
Sweetie, I hurt for you, that running into them when you don’t expect it is like getting hit in the face with a bucket of urine—I have also over reacted like the time I ran into my egg donor iin the grocery store—I was literally SICK for about 18 hours. Nah, I didn’t scream at her like that, but you know what, I think if my son C hadn’t been pulling at my arm, I WOULD have, I ALMOST DID, and OH, GOSH I WANTED TO HIT HER!!!!
Oh, sweet, Nic, I understand your anger and your rage, but you know, turn this thing around, BE THANKFUL TO GOD THAT YOUR X DOESN’T CARE ABOUT HIS CHILD. Read here about all the parents who are having their psychopath co-parent abuse the children, alienate them get custody of them. Now you sit down and you make a list of all your BLESSINGS, and put LOVE FRAUD at the top of the list, and then QUIT BEATING YOURSELF UP—right now, you need a big hug not a BOINKING! ((((((((NIC)))))))) and my prayers sweetie!
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learnthelesson says:
Dear Nic -
Its ok. You had a moment. You got it out. Whether it was from shock or hurt or protection of your child – you did all you knew to do at that moment. After this experience you will likely not choose to REACT that way again. So many have shared releasing their frustration and anger like that and then choosing to not do that again. ITS OK. Youre human.
Towanda for not getting back with him. It could have been you in the market with one of his hurt and abused women losing it on you and him — It could have been you with that monster today.
Keep protecting your daughter and focusing on her and how LUCKY you are not to have him around. He is a bad man. It sure wouldve set me back and driven me to tears — but Im glad you reached out and shared what you went through, we are all here for you and glad you didnt ram your car into their parked car in the lot! (I almost did that – I even told my girlfriend its worth paying the insurance premium – she calmed me down and got me thinking sensibly again – but I almost rammed his parked car (unoccupied) thats how frustrated and out of character I was!! ((HUGS)) How are you feeling tonight?
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ErinBrock says:
Nic:
XXOO
To you…….get that strength girl….You’ll be okay….
Remember…..it’s all a lesson sweetie!!
XXOO
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