Tell the experts about your experience with a sociopath
PDF Lovefraud invites you to complete a survey about your experience with a sociopath/psychopath/narcissist in order to help professionals diagnose this disorder properly.
Two days ago, the American Psychiatric Association released a draft of the fifth edition its Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM 5). This book is the standard classification of mental disorders used by mental health and other professionals. The revision has been underway for a decade.
A work group of 11 doctors and psychologists focused on the section about personality and personality disorders. They have recommended significant changes to the description of antisocial personality disorder, which is also referred to as sociopathy and psychopathy. In fact, one of the suggestions is to change the name of the personality disorder to “antisocial/psychopathic type.”
The new description of the disorder is much closer to what most of us at Lovefraud have experienced. You can read the description here:
The American Psychiatric Association has invited public comment on the draft of DSM 5, and Lovefraud is taking the doctors up on their invitation. We thought the best way to do it would be to survey our readers, asking you how well the proposed description of antisocial/psychopathic type matches your experience with one (or more) of these individuals.
Please take the survey. This is serious, so be thoughtful and accurate in your responses. It will probably take you about 15 minutes, so please start it when you are sure you have time to complete it.
The survey will be open until March 3, 2010. After that, we will tabulate and analyze the data. We will prepare a report of the findings for the American Psychiatric Association. The results will also be published on Lovefraud.
Go to the survey:
written by Donna Andersen • Permalink •
learnthelesson says:
Greenfern – i typed your name in the searchbox and this seems to be your most recent post above. yesterday at 4:16pm is that what you are referring to?
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victimx says:
I just completed the survey and I must admit, the questions made me feel human, like it wasn’t my fault after all. God, thank you for the survey, thank you all for the countless words of encouragement all the time. I read daily, I read this site like I do my Bible. Just knowing how easily Doug took my life over, how he left me to die, to just not be cared for at all still leaves me confounded and angry. I am so compassionate and loving, so full of life and wonderment, so willing to help anyone, everyone and to know that he took my trust in humanity with him infuriates me. I am struggling to let my former husband, who is an angel in that he loves me even though I left him for four years to be with this jerk after 30 years of marriage. He absolutely loves me too death and I don’t feel I deserve it and I am struggling to trust him. He never gave me reason not to but Doug did. Doug ruined my trust in people, my own sense of self and self-expression. He caused me to doubt myself. No one ever did that to be ever!! I am 5’9″ and 150 lbs. and he told me how ugly and fat I am, how no man would ever want me. Yet, I have been not only a teacher but a model for various companies up and down the Eastern Coast since I was 18 years of age. I still model furs and sportswear. He is a 5’9″ wrinkled up piece of crap who cannot put a sentence together without a horrible misspelling and grammatical error. He is a teacher and it is so pitiful. He writes as if he is in the fifth grade. He always begged me to do his lesson plans and written requirements (projects, etc.) and his supervisors thought he was brilliant!!! When I finally told him to get f—ed, the administration started to see a marked difference in all of his written submissions!!! DUH!!! They demanded he retire in 2009 because of misuse of the internet viewing porn sights while supposedly working, planning vacations with various women and telling administration he was “sick”. He was sick alright, sicker than I even knew. When I reported his behavior and gave proof of my input in his “lesson plans and other required submissions,” they almost s–t a brick. He was forced to retire. The hell of it is, he still finds a way to get a hateful and horribly disturbing message to me telling me I am fat and ugly and “crazy”. That is the part that hurts the worst. He was so good at being a son-of-a-bitch he had convinced everyone else I was a nutcase. After almost a year without him, I can thank my God for justice. People who at one time believed him against me now are calling me, coming to visit me, telling me how sorry they are for being nasty to me because he was so damn convincing. I welcome all of them with open arms and now I have started a support group for people like myself who have been the victims of a son of a bitch sociopathic narcissistic piece of crap!!! I have a really big group and it is absolutely the most healing, validating and confirmation of myself that I could ever have. I thought I was all alone, I am not. Oh my God! There are a hell of a lot of jerks out there and I am still so afraid of even my husband. I don’t want to be but he is so wonderful, he puts up with me and lets me have all the space and time I need while providing nothing but love and support for me every single moment of my life. I am trying to trust him but I have been hurt so badly, I don’t know if I can ever have a relationship with any man on this planet.
This web site has truly been a God-sent to me. I tried more than once to just take my life but for whatever reason I was not successful. When I started reading this website, I realized I was not alone and I have to tell all of you, I read every day and it helps me so much and I am growing within myself by the grace of God and all of you!!! All of you are God’s angels put here to help all of us and your words have made me feel absolutely human again and I thank you all so much for that. I do know now that I have so much to offer other people. I want to help, to heal and to comfort others as well as teach them what evil lies out there that we all need to be aware of. I have encountered so many other women that are in the very same shoes I have been in and I want nothing more than to raise them up, make them feel worthwhile and wonderful! If I can do this every single day, and I try to, I pray to God I lift up someone to a more positive positition than I found myself in. Thank GOD FOR LOVEFRAUD!!! It really did save my life and in the process, hopefully, I can help others by reaching out and also referring them to this wonderful website. It absolutely saved my life, literally and made me a better person. I am not perfect but I know enough to know that the best healing comes from helping others understand what you have been through and what you can help them with because I have absolutely experienced it myself. God’s gifts are within all of us and lovefraud, especially you, OXY-drover have helped me so much throughout these last three years. I value your opinion and I thank God he put you in my path. It would be a great honor to meet you one day. Your kindness and words of wisdom kept me from picking up the gun, in the basement of my home and blowing my brains out. I want you to know this. I want you to understand how reaching out and caring for people you do not even know can change their lives. You saved me by your words. You absolutely did and I thank you and God again for coming into my life this way. I am honored and priviledged to be even acquainted with you.
All of you have been hurt and I absolutely empathize with you all. It is only by the grace of God I am alive today to talk to you, to create and encourage my support group of women and men who have encountered sociopaths, narcissistic persons in their lives. My goal is to first be the best mother in the world for my four wonderfully successful children and my precious grandchild and my husband who never pushes, never insists on anything, takes my moods and my cooking (LOL) without a word of anything but encouragement. He is a counselor and I thank God he is my husband. He has forgiven me a long time ago but I am still having a bit of difficulty forgiving myself. Please keep the words of wisdom and funny encounters coming. I depend on you all to help me and thus you help me help my support group. I love all of you because I understand the hell we all have been through. Please continue to encourage and help one another and if you have the strength, reach out to others. I did and it has been one of the most rewarding experiences of my life. I did not have great knowledge or skills at first, only an honest interpretation of my hell which was so similar to everyone else’s. The honesty of what a sociopath can do to you is the most informational honesty you could ever offer to anyone. To realize you understand and acknowledge you have been there and done that, is such a powerful tool when you encounter a “deer in headlights”, so to speak. To help a person who is in the beginning stages of being “stunned and gunned” is a hell of a gift if you can help them acknowledge that you know for a fact they are involved with a sick individual. Based on my sessions with my group, all individuals knew that “something was not quite right” but they could not put their finger on it. Well hell, let’s all of us put our freaking knowing, been there, done that experience give others understand, hope, influence and wisdom from those of us that have, thank God, survived. Amen and there it is by God!!!
Please keep writing and sharing. My prayers and love go out to all of you.
Sarah
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shabbychic says:
victimx, hello, I read your post, I think it is wonderful that you started a support group, what a fantastic idea, I admire you for helping others even though you were/are in so much pain. I can’t believe this man telling you that you are fat, ugly and crazy, he sounds like a 12 year old!!! I mean, after everything… it’s just such a stupid thing to say!!! This website has also helped me SO MUCH. I like your writing, how you expressed yourself about the people on this site… “God’s angels”… perfect, I agree 100% !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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victimx says:
Thank you so much shabbychic. The understanding, awareness and compassion for other human beings is the only reason I am here today. Persons like you lift me up, keep me going and give me purpose for continuing. I read so much about all the pain, the familiar pain that I thought only I encountered. So not true!!! Sharing the wounds and scars of a sociopath is so redeeming to myself and others. Just to acknowledge that we are not alone is a mountain of support and comfort. I do not post often but I read daily. Again, I thank my God for his “angels” who continue to help, support and validate persons who have been hurt, insulted, betrayed and absolutely emotionally abandoned by these sick individuals. Please continue to post, all of you, as it helps so very, very much. God has sent me angels, all of you. You all, without even knowing, gave me strength, empowerment and determination to continue to be better, to be God’s agent in helping others and to want to be the very best I can be so that I can possibly be of some comfort to others. This is truly the best healing in the world.
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OxDrover says:
Dear Victim-x (Sarah)
My eyes teared up as I read your above post, and I am so glad that you are here and that you are doing the things you are doing and “spreading the gospel of LF” to others. I feel very privilidged that my words helped you in your hours of deepest dark. That feeling is an abyss of the deepest pain I can only imagine.
Please, if you have not gotten Dr. Viktor Frankl’s book “Man’s searchh for meaning” please do and read it, it was the spiritual turning point for me in helping me to FORGIVE MYSELF. I think the forgiveness we give to others should FIRST be given to ourselves. God forgives us, those that love us forgive us, but until we can FORGIVE OURSELVES we keep on feeling down and in darkness.
Look at the Apostle Paul for your example. What he had to forgive himself for was the death of a Saint. That’s pretty much a “big one” in my book.
We also must, I think LEARN TO TRUST OURSELVES before we can relearn to trust others. We have to learn to trust ourselves again after WE have let ourselves become embroiled in the “dance of death” with the psychopaths.
I am glad also that others are seeing that you were not “crazy” or turning their backs on you. That they are validating you about the P.
As far as him saying you are “ugly” and fat, etc. THOSE WORDS CAN HURT YOU ONLY IF YOU ALLOW THEM TO. He can SAY the world is FLAT, but that doesn’t make it so. You are only “ugly and fat” if YOU think you are.
I am 63 years old and when I look in the mirror I see my grandmother’s face—and I am working on taking off weight, more weight than I have EVER weighed in my life! But my wrinkles and my fat middle (and yes, I am wrinkled and fat!) are not what makes me “attractive” or “good” to anyone, it is what is INSIDE ME. Look at all the “beautiful people” on TV and in the movies, who are absolutely “perfect” physical specimines, but you know they are twisted drug addicts, etc. SO, who is a “beautiful person” is not what you look like outside. It is what is inside you that makes you beautiful.
Our society and culture stresses the external “beauty” that will fade. The Bible tells us our “treasures” are not those of this earth–youth, beauty, gold, silver, fame, etc—but the things STORED UP in Heaven. i.e. what is inside us, what cannot be taken from us.
King David was referred to as “a man after God’s own heart” but he was also a GREAT SINNER, but so WHY was he a “man after God’s own heart?” Because when he became aware of his sins, HE REPENTED AND CHANGED HIS WAYS. I think that is why David’s story was told in such detail, he had all the sinful lusts that every human has, he loved his bad son, and enabled him, he was selfish, coniving, killed a man to get his wife, tried to cover up the pregnancy first, but when that failed, killed her husband by using his position as king to get the man killed in battle. He was ungrateful to his people after the civil war and CRIED instead for his Psychopathic son who was dead—and had caused tens of thousands of deaths of the people in the war. David was a mortal man, with the sins we all must over come, but he was a MAN AFTER GOD’S OWN HEART, not because he never sinned, but because when he did sin, he repented and changed his ways.
It is the psychopaths like Jezebell who do not repent, who do not change their ways that are “doomed to hell” on this earth and I think afterwards. They are psychopathic and don’t want to change, they want to CONTROL others and can’t love or care for anything except power, etc.
So, please, FORGIVE yourself, learn to TRUST yourself to keep yourself safe. (((Hugs)))) and myy prayers for you always.
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ptsd says:
King David????He was one of the worst sinners……..but the most forgiven!!!!!!!!!!!! That is a conundrom(spelling) to me…
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ptsd says:
Oxy n others…….let it go ……. arh…… I waannnt to……the asshole still hurts….how do we??????we just doooo….don’t mean to be trite,….I’ll post this n then delete……
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ptsd says:
oops
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ptsd says:
can we/should we …. it is what I want to do….totally erradicate the AaHoles from our lives….why is it so hard????I think this is the place to band together as best as one can…..really I can”t imagine doing it
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ptsd says:
I truly am sorry for interrupting.
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ptsd says:
I really am sorry for discombobulating iit all!!!!!!!!!!!
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ptsd says:
thaaat said…I have aa beautiful cat n dog. Jupiter and Magda
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witsend says:
ptsd,
On another thread where you asked initially asked about intuition, you had a few responses to that.
I am not sure if you went back and looked, it is under the thread “I fell for it a million times.” (something like that)
Usually someone is on here at Lf but it is kind of where people come and read and post and then check back again later. So people coming and going all day long….
Sometimes in the wee hours, late at night or early morning you can get into an ongoing back and forth “chat” with someone, and that also happens during the day as well.
But generally speaking posters are coming and reading then maybe posting and then checking back later.
Don’t want you to think that you are being ignored or interrupting
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ptsd says:
dont knowbout you but it is time we get it !!
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ptsd says:
Witsend? thank you…I really am f*cked over this(my) situation….I really can’t get it together….I am really a pretty responsible person…don’t feel like it these days… thanks…
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ptsd says:
oh man / woman did anyone get that viibe?
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ptsd says:
what i would have said : don’t mess with me…….ever had a gun pointed at you? Probably I’m not the only one here….
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learnthelesson says:
PTSD – your pets names are so cute – bet they are great to have around.. I havent been able to follow your posts, but I just wanted to say hello and let you know alot of us couldnt get it together initially, but with time and talking and reading and sharing and listening to other survivors it does get better. Hang in there. What kind of dog do you have?
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ptsd says:
ltl:
M’s a min Schnauzer. Jupe’s a black cat with 7 toes! Here is the connection to the XS’s ex gf. Jupe came to me as a stray when I was signing the lease to a house in the hamlet where she still lives. That was 2001.
We met then and would chat on the road at times. I had no idea she was involved with XS at the time. Jupe was pregnant at about 8 months old. Her babes had the same toes. I wanted to be sure they went to good homes and ex gf was working with a local vet to find homes for litters. One kitten went to a dear friend and the other 3 were adopted in homes several hours away via ex gf and vet connection.
Once the XS and I got together 5 years after the kittens, I learned that he was in her life back then. NO idea before that.
Who knew the ex gf and I would connect again years later for the purpose of exposing this guy!
I am just very thankful that she also had the strength of purpose to come in to see me.
Yeah….my dates may be a tad off due to CRS too….lol
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ptsd says:
witsend:
Hi and thank you too. I’ve got a lot of reading to do. I want to be able to strengthen and encourage too. Not just need.
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ember halo says:
i wish i knew that “sociopath” & “antisocial personality disorder” were the same thing before i married the S, who had been diagnosed with the latter….
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kim frederick says:
Well, Ember, now ya know. We can learn from our mistakes… when we know better we do better, they never do.
Are you a new voice, here, or have I just missed you in the past?
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ThePeregrine says:
Frank Lee Speaking: To me, your 33 descriptors are as close as I’ve seen to a summary description of the woman I identify as a sociopath, and other sociopaths described by their “victims” in various support groups I’ve participated in. Well said!
Ember: Just to clarify, think of “sociopath” as an umbrella for a range of behaviors that *include* antisocial personality disorder. The words aren’t exactly synonymous, but a lot of what we can learn about one sociopath will help us to understand other similarly disordered people (and more importantly, how to avoid them). Loosely speaking, the person who fits the strict criteria for antisocial personality disorder is the worst of the worst, and often lands in prison at a young age — but there are very clever sociopaths who remain among us for their entire lives.
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LouiseGolem says:
Hi folks. I’ve been getting on with life, or trying to. Every now and then I need to check in here, to remind myself that there’s evil lurking out there. I hope you’re all getting on. . . .
interesting survey. I think “anti-social personality disorder” is decent; my ex even called himself anti-social. The thing is, so am I a little bit. So does that include me in the mix?
My counselor uses the term “abuser.” I kind of like that one. It acknowledges the actions these people perform on others. The only problem with it, though, is that it makes me “abused,” which I don’t want to be.
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Aeylah says:
LouiseGolem,
“Abused” is a label that makes us “victims” and it is a hard reality to admitt but one we have to own and in time shed. If we remain in the “abused-vicitm” mode it only makes us susseptable to atract new “abusers” to sustantiate this reality. I like to think of my self now as the “phoenix” a bird that rises from the ashes and soars again.
Funny thing is one of my sisters would never call the ex NS by his name, only “the abuser”…..and I resented it so much because it made me feel like the “abused” too!….another words like a victim.
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Jewels says:
I agree with Oxy’s explanation post Saturday, 13 February 2010 @ 5:48pm; we are studying this in class this week – I had a copy of the “Prosecutor’s Statement of the Case” regarding Gary Ridgway (The Green River Killer), and had made a copy for him, since he’s our AbPsych instructor.
Reading that “indictment” is chilling; the excerpts from the psychiatrists and psychologist who had the opportunity to interview him – I envy them and pity them – simply because they got to see true evil and stare him in the face.
I have also given my instructor the link to this survey along with the proposed revision for DSM-V; hopefully, he, with his 21 years of practice, as a professional and as an educator, will participate in some manner in the surveys and recommendations.
It’s a sad situation, in that everyone who has found LF has gotten here through the school of hard knocks, myself included. BUT, if the NASP is out of our life, then the education has been well worth it. We know what to look for, and have become attuned to those types of behaviors. I like Oxy’s way of putting it: “One lie (or act of deceitfulness) and ‘THERE’S the DOOR’ ” is an excellent rule of thumb.
~j~
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bird says:
I just took the survey, and I have to say that the sociopath I dealt with did not aim any anger towards me. One of the questions was about anger, and I didn’t see it often in him; I don’t know if anger is common in sociopaths. He remained calm, I mean really calm, chillingly calm. Calm when he lied, calm when he cheated, calm when he left. If he would have gotten angry, or sad (other then the crocodile tears), or passionate, or anything..it would have been a relief. But he was really calm even during times of crisis; I didn’t see the angry side. He still writes me on the first of every month and says the child support check is in the mail…it isn’t. The lies don’t stop, and when I wrote back that he hasn’t sent me a child support check (I wrote just in case it comes to “back child support” in court). He agreed and said that he owed me his “spiritual help” along with financial help…that he was working on a magnificant future for the baby that neither of us currently live in or will ever know of. Still no child support check, but the grandiose ideas of the perfect future for the baby and the lying doesn’t stop. Still no anger either. I have anger. I am angry. I was angry all the time towards him when we were together. He was never towards me and he still maintains a calm towards me for whatever reason. I loved the calm at first when we were together, but now it just gives me the heeby jeebies; there is something just not right about that calm.
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bird says:
when he did show anger it was always towards a walgreens worker, or someone he didn’t know. He would randomly show aggression towards strangers…but never to me
He would insult me all the time, but he didn’t show any anger. Does that make sense…
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7stepstoheaven says:
I thought this was a great idea – filled out 2, one for my father, one for my stepfather.
However there are some questions that don’t really take into account the fact that you may have been a child when you knew this person (aside from putting in your age range). They also don’t take into account the possibility that the person may be deceased or has been deceased for a long time.
My father died when I was 7, so any thoughts I now have about him I certainly did not have “during the time this person was in your life.” As a child, during the time he was “in my life,” I had no concept of noting his behaviors, his feelings, or how my perception of him changed over time. I did not have most of this information until after I was 30 years old and my mom began to tell me what she had gone through.
There’s also the problem of gaping holes in my memory. I have selectively remembered only times when he would be a caring and fun parent. I remember him taking me out for ice cream, or ice skating, or bringing me home books about the solar system or dinosaurs. I have no memory of any abuse or battering of my mother before age 6 or 7. My sister who was 2 years younger remembers many things, like my mom waking us up and leaving with us in the middle of the night to get away from him. This happened on more than one occasion, yet I am totally blank.
There was also an odd question about rage and anger. I have experienced 2 sociopaths – my father who was charming and charismatic and successful, but in secret an angry raging alcoholic who beat my mother and never showed any remorse or guilt. The trauma I and my siblings suffered was a byproduct of what that environment made us witness. I do not believe there was any direct abuse perpetrated by him on his children, although of course creating such an environment is in itself abusive.
And there was my stepfather, who was also charming and charismatic and was never angry about anything. For the 10 years he lived with us (and legally adopted us after he married my mother) he was the the caring father figure. He lived with my mother until I was a young adult at 19. My mother was the
the one who was emotionally abusive whenever she became angry at us, with her door-slamming rages when she refused to speak to us or acknowledge us. I was the oldest, a tomboy, and he was my pal, my friend, who taught me how to ride a bike, and how to drive. He took me hiking and camping. He was welcome shelter from my mother’s episodes of hostility.
Later on, by the time I was in high school, I began to notice some things – like the way my mother had always catered to him but neglected the needs of her children. The middle child, my sister, had always had some kind of intuitive feeling that she did not like him. She told me this but could not tell me why.
He was worse than my father – because he took a 3-year-old child’s innocence, and continued taking it for years. He used my mother, going to school while she worked, a schedule that gave him ample opportunity to be there when my youngest sister came home from school. He had affairs with neighbors, and my mother’s best friend, a woman she worked with. When my mother inherited money from my grandmother’s estate, he helped her spend it in reckless and selfish ways. And then he left her once he had gotten a good-paying job, and her money was gone, and the object of his pederasty became too old for him.
It can be difficult to compare 2 sociopaths and say which one is worse. But for my money, the pederast wins over the batterer. Either one of them could have committed murder by accident or by design. I am convinced of that. I’m all for the long definition,
“Antisocial/Psychopathic Type.” I think it’s more descriptive. Having an Anti-Social disorder is not only about maladjusted types who can’t fit into society. Calling them Psychopaths leaves room for the people who, like both of mine, appear to be fine upstanding citizens, unless you’re unfortunate enough to become privy to their dark side.
Well I guess I should add my grandmother while I’m at it. 3! Yes 3 generations of sociopaths in my family! At least the ones I know about! It’s just the gift that keeps on giving!
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OxDrover says:
Dear Bird,
First off WWWWWELCOME HOME!!!!! Glad to see you still here.
Anger? What IS ANGER? If he talked bad or ugly to you, I think that is ANGER. Anger can be expressed in SO many ways, like even with just a LOOK or an unkind word. So if he treated you poorly (which Iknow he did) maybe that was his form of ANGER.
I’m actually GLAD he is not paying child support, because in the end it will help you get any “parental” rights he has canceled….so hopefully you can get him entirely out of your life and your baby’s life. How is my sweet little “Baby Birdie?” I hope he is growing and doing well. He must be a BIG boy by now!
Thank you so much for checking in from time to time. I think about you and Baby Birdie so much and wish you well and all my best thoughs and prayers. Sweeze his fat little cheeks for his “Aunty Oxy!” and give him a BIG ))))Hug))))) Love Oxy
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OxDrover says:
Dear 7steps,
Thank you for sharing that story with LF, it must have been tough to grow up during such turmoil and chaos and pain. I’m glad you are able to process it. I too hope that our surveys will help with the DSM V, I know that each survey was filled out from EXPERIENCE that even many professonals don’t “get”–God bless. (((Hugs))))
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bird says:
thanks oxy-not sure what I would do without you and this website… I am at a point now where I understand the gravity of my entanglement with the S; I feel stuck, I feel like I need to fight for my child, I don’t feel confident that I am doing anything right, I feel relieved hes not in my house, I have a gut feeling that he is a ped (probably cause he got turned on at childrens parks). I can’t believe the naevity I had about the world when I dated him and had his baby…I am a really smart women. Straight As in college. Masters degree. how could I make such a mistake? And the baby looks just like him…I keep messing up and this is a child; I can’t mess this up and I am so unsure of everything I do…
I pick bad men. My husband yelled at me all the time. The sociopath was a sociopath. The guy after that was a long time friend who ended up being a sex addict and ended up stalking me. I also dated a schizoid after that. I don’t trust my new boyfriend either. He won’t let me see his phone and he talks about how hot other women are on tv, but he never says he thinks I am pretty. I don’t know if I am overly sensitive. I havn’t caught him in a lie (or he’d be gone) but he won’t let me look at his phone. I don’t trust him, and I don’t know if its real instinct or just bad stuff from my past coming back to haunt me. hes not a sociopath though cause he has never told me he loves me and we have been dating for 9 months; and he doesn’t tell me what I want to hear just because it’s what I want to hear. I figure if he isn’t a sociopath and he doesn’t yell at me, then that is good enough for me.
I just hope I don’t mess this up…
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one_step_at_a_time says:
oh dear bird -
‘I figure if he isn’t a sociopath and he doesn’t yell at me, then that is good enough for me. ‘
that’s not enough. nope. you deserve WAY more than this, and are worth WAY more than this – I don’t even know you, but i know this to be true for anyone.
love and care is not the absence of lies and violence.
love and care is also not talking about others sexual attractiveness all the time and never mentioning your’s.
i don’t let people look at my phone – but then no one has ever asked – cause i don’t give off the ‘lying cheater’ vibe.
trust your gut on this one.
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OxDrover says:
Dear Bird,
Darling, if you DO NOT TRUST HIM, WHY in the name of all that is good is he still around after 9 months? LISTEN TO YOUR GUT WOMAN.
Are you going to “settle” for a man who is NOT TRUST WORTHY? Just because he doesn’t yell at you? My goodness woman, don’t make me get that skillet out! LOL
If that guy has been around for 9 months and he has refused to let you see his jphone, HE IS HIDING SOMETHING, whether or not he says “I love you” or not is beside the point.
RED FLAG!!!!! RED FLAG!!!! RUNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!
You ARE smart, Bird, but you DESERVE MORE than what you have been “picking” YOUR PICKER IS BROKE!!! As Henry says.
I know you are young and want a companion, a love, a mate, but if you have picked this many “bad guys” in a row, how about we take a “time out” and find out why you are picking so poorly. I would suggest that you get some counseling.
I KNOW I WAS A SET UP for the P-BF when he came along after my husband died, I was so NEEDY that the first guy who started showing interest in me I fell for (I had casually known him for about 10 yrs in my living history group). I did not want to be alone, but I PICKED BAD. I’ve only had a few dates since then (but hey, I’m not young and cute any more! LOL) but quickly saw that these were NOT guys I wanted to continue to date.
It isn’t just about whatj they DON;T DO like yell at me or things like that, but also what they HAVE TO GIVE—-like kindness, compassion, etc. how they treat others, not jjust me, etc. so so far I have not seen anything in any of these guys that would make me feel that I should TRUST them.
If you can’t TRUST this guy after 9 months—-just my opinion, kick him TO THE CURB.
Sit down and make a list of not only DEAL KILLERS (like dishonesty and lies, etc.) but make a list of what the guy you give your heart to HAS TO GIVE TO YOU AS WELL. Like kindness, consideration, financial perameters, educational and intellectual. Don’t settle though for anyone who is to far beneath you intellectually and educationally, values, does he have the same values you do? Kids, how does he treat your child? Does he enjoy enteracting with the Birdie? If not, kiss him goodbye and shove his arse out the door.
On your X, since he is not paying child support, and you are having gut feelings he may be a pervert, I suggest that you not take his phone calls or listen to him give you “spiritual” support which is a, excuse my “French” A CROCK OF SHIT! And, don’t let him see the baby. As far as I know he isn’t on the birth certificvate and there’s been no DNA and he hasn’t paid support, so what are his RIGHTS? NONE! He has not acted like a responsible parent, heck he left you 6 months into the preg for another woman? THAT’S SPIRITUAL? Make me PUKE!
Dear Sweet wonderfull Bird, you deserve only the BEST, but don’t, please don’t settle for something less—be ready when the white knight rides up, don’t be distracted by some low-life puke who doesn’t treat you like a princess, You know I love you sweetie, and I’ve given you a big mouthfull to swallow, so please chew on what I’ve said and get inside your own head and put into WORDS and ACTIONS what you want, to be loved. Start by loving yourself enough not to settle for these nut jobs! Love Oxy ((((hugs))))) and my prayers for you and Baby Birdie!
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kim frederick says:
Hi Bird. I just wanted to point out that just because someone doesn’t say, “I love you”, it doesn’t mean he’s not a spath…and just because someone does , it doesn’t mean he is, and furthar, I see no relationship at all…
If a man does love you, he should be willing to tell you, if he doesn’t he shouldn’t be wasting your time and energy, and letting you get caught up with him….spath or otherwise, you deserve tp be loved and told so.
Kick him to the curb…men are like busses, there’ll be another one by in 15 minutes…The hard part is finding one that’s going your way……:)
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OxDrover says:
Well said, KIM!!!! ((((hugs))))
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kim frederick says:
Why Thank You, Oxy. (((hugs right back)))
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Rosa says:
Bird:
I don’t know you, and I am not a boinker……but I really want to boink you right now.
At best, your new boyfriend is insensitive and disrespectful.
At worst, he’s an abuser.
He’s got you doubting yourself.
And you are carrying the entire burden of the success or failure of this relationship on your back when you say, “I just hope I don’t mess this up…”
Is he THAT perfect that if anything goes wrong in this relationship, it will be your fault???
I think that’s a blatant red flag right there that this arrangement is toxic.
If he’s not living with you (please say he’s NOT living with you), then he will be easy to get rid of.
Your gut feeling is correct that he cannot be trusted.
Tell him that you’ve had a nice time, but this little arrangement is no longer working for you.
Get rid of him, and make room for someone who can love you properly.
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learnthelesson says:
Dear Bird,
Welcome to lovefraud.
You summed it up in a nutshell. You said “I PICK BAD MEN” …
At some point we have to start to look into that..and see why we keep choosing men who dont treat us right. Why we are willing to be with a toxic person who doesnt value and cherish us. And further if we valued and cherished ourselves we probably wouldnt A. put up with their crap and B. We wouldnt be attracted to them to begin with!
I hope what you said is true “If I caught him in a lie – he’d be gone” – because that usually occurs in the first 4 to 12 months!
He might not be a Sociopath, but remember its not just about his words, or intentionally not telling you things you want to hear… Its his ACTIONS, keeping his word, respecting you, being trustworthy, be able to communicate with him – not afraid to talk to him openly.
If he isnt able to leave his phone on the table on in the room when he goes to the bathroom – RED FLAG – WARNING — This has been known to be a sign that he has stuff to hide from YOU, lie to you about.
I understand youre afraid that because of all of your past relationships you might be overly sensitive to things that really arent happening in this relationship — but you can judge that by how he is making you feel when with him – how he ACTS – how happy he is and you are when youre with him. He doesnt have to tell you he loves you — but healthy relationships are much different from unhealthy ones – you just never have a real need to not trust – BECAUSE HIS ACTIONS SHOW YOU.
Also you may not be ready for a relationship — after all youve been through. Lots to think about. But please stop putting all the blame and burden on yourself. In healthy relationships you are able to express how you feel, your concerns and your partner converses with you openly and honestly and you learn and grow together…
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learnthelesson says:
ps Bird…
If I were you. I would simply sit back and notice HIS ACTIONS, what he does in your presence… does he take phone everywhere…is it on silence?…does he ever put in on table? Does he keep his word with you ? So many things about him to VIEW –
And if his phone is attached to him at all times. I WOULD CHOOSE FOR MYSELF TO NOT INVEST TOO MUCH EMOTION OR LOVE OR GOODNESS INTO HIM – I WOULDNT EVEN HAVE TO CONFRONT HIM – I WOULD JUST KNOW NOW THAT HE ISNT THE GUY FOR ME. I DESERVE AN OPEN HONEST REAL GUY WHO TREATS ME WITH RESPECT.
ID JUST MOVE ON. NO CONFRONTATION NOW…BECAUSE IVE LEARNED THAT ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS – AND HIS ACTIONS SAY – IM DISRESPECTFUL TOWARD YOU AND I DONT CARE SO MUCH.
BUT IF HIS ACTIONS WERE THE OPPOSITE I WOULD CONTINUE TO GET TO KNOW HIM, AND IF AT ANYTIME HE DOESNT KEEP HIS WORD OR RED FLAGS APPEAR…I KNOW TO MOVE ON.
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hens says:
Hi Bird – this is henry long time no see. Yes i used to have a pattern of picking losers or they picked me. i met some good one’s but i wasnt interested, go figure – i met a nice lady a few months ago – (no just friendship) but she is so grounded and well adjusted and seems to be a super nice person – this is going to be interesting for me, she doesnt need rescued or fixed, so what do I do? i feel like I am lower class because I have all this baggage and history… I dont want to discuss my past with her..but she was talking about a neighbor of hers that really upset her, she started saying things like ‘i should of listened to my gut and i should of paid attention to the red flags’ and i am like ‘ok we speak the same language – so maybe i can develop a good casual friendship with her after all…but about men? ya’ll can have em I am done…with em. period – zilch nada no more pain…
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OxDrover says:
Dear Henry,
When is our wedding? You promised me that if you gave up men and went straight we would get married, and I am breathlessly waiting!
Who is this woman that is trying to beat my time? Let me know and I will come at her with skillets flying! I can’t have someone trying to beat my time with my BEST GUY!!!! LOL
Weather is wonderful here today! Hope it was good where you are! Gosh it is nice not have it gloomy any more! I’m enjoying this spring like weather. Had a new calf yesterday and one more any hour now, but not by late this afternoon. Cow looks like he has an elephant to give birth to! She either has to have it or explode! LOL
Henry, ifr you say anything about you being “lower class’ cause you got all this baggage and stuff and history, I WILL boink you! CLASS is not about money, education or anything else of that nature, CLASS is about HEART! One of the CLASSIEST GUYS I know is illiterate and can’t even write his name, but he has good kids, he worked hard all his life, paid his bills and was a good neighbor. His FAMILY however, for the most part are WHITE TRASH to the ultimate! So sweetie, classy is how you think, how you ACT and you is a CLASSY MAN!!!! and you know I loves ya, even if I am responsible for your flat head! (wear a baseball cap, it will make it look round!) ((((Hugs))))
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hens says:
Ox darlin I said i was giving up men but i couldnt go straight if i wanted too..remember what i told ya? yeah you know..anyhow why ruin a good friendship like ours by gettin married? we have the same weather here have been diggin in the dirt and makin some money, there is nuthin cuter than a baby calf – too bad they grow up and become rib eyes…well i am a classy dood – it takes class to survive what we did, classy doodette~!
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one_step_at_a_time says:
hens – over the last few months, I am stripped of more and more of resources – money, health, housing, sanity, work.
and strangely enough, I am feeling like the good of this is that my sense of self cannot lay in those things – that i am distilled more and more, that i cannot accept the mantle of shame that circumstances and spaths have hung about my shoulders.
we are more. MORE than this – this is not even about us. yes, we do have to come to understand ourselves, and change what we can and need to. But fundamentally, our worth never wavers. I mean this.
I sat across the table yesterday morning, from a man who is doing some very real world things to help me with my employment situation. He is well off, a very active Rotarian (they are head hunting me
a world traveler, a man deeply committed to community and good. He knows my situation. And his very appropo response is to bring his resources to bare to help me pull myself up in life. there is no judgement. only care. those are the good ones.
may you be blessed. blessed sweet henry.
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hens says:
Dear Oxy and Onestep – you are my angel’s and Onestep it sounds like you have met one also. there are good people out there willing to help those who will help themselves – i wish you the best onestep..
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one_step_at_a_time says:
thank you hens. i am trying mightily.
do yo have a new calf? i grew up on a dairy farm. i miss them. as a kid i walked around with my cuffs soaking wet and stiffened by milk replacer, from the calves sucking on them. and somehow this is a fond memory…..
i also said the word ‘sociopath’ to two people this week. no, actually three. i tired slipping it into a social conversation last week – that didn’t work so well
I am coming out of the big ‘stun’ phase. I see how disabled i am by ptsd, but I feel a lot of hope rising.
to bed. x
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witsend says:
One Step,
Gentle and kind people. Sometimes they appear in our lives when we least expect them to or when we need them the most.
I am so happy for you that this “goodness” has come into your life.
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witsend says:
hens,
You know hens, all the ladies on lf would be fighting over you.
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hens says:
AWH shucks witty – that was sweet…
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geminigirl says:
Tell you what, hens, we can have an all girls harem, with some gay men,-the men can do all the cooking, feed us grapes all day long, paint our nails, feed the animals,have witty conversation with us, read knowledge able books to us,, theyd be too tired to even think about sex!!
And we can all sleep together and cuddle each other,and play soft gentle music to each other, give each other bubble baths.
I think as Harems go, it would be a great one!
Well have huge circular communal beds, and all the animals,{the ones that get on with each other that is,} can all curl up and sleep on our feet. What do you think, hens?
Im starting to think that sex is overrated anyway, cuddles may be OK!! This is only a blue print idea! Love and a group Hug!! Mama Gem!!!.XXXXX
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