The sociopath’s imperturbability
PDF The sociopath’s imperturbability has been widely noted. However, this is a generalization, not true of all sociopaths in all situations.
A sociopath around whom the net is closing, who recognizes that he’s played his last card and finds, alas, that the game is ending and that he faces inescapable consequences—sociopaths in this circumstance may feel forms of perturbability, like anxiety and worry.
But in situations where he perceives his security (however unrealistically) to be relatively unthreatened—especially where his grandiosity and sense of omnipotence remain relatively intact—the sociopath can be curiously imperturbable.
Imperturbable, that is, in the commission of his violating acts, as well as in the subsequent striking sangfroid with which he’ll brazenly perpetuate his deceit even when confronted with his flat guilt.
How do we explain this?
First, I pose a question: Have you ever played a really cruel practical joke or, if not, witnessed one (with enjoyment), that left its victim torturously duped, perhaps even mildly traumatized?
I’d suggest that the mindset involved in conceiving and executing such a prank, even the mindset (as a witness) involved in merely enjoying it, is temporarily rather sociopathic in several ways.
I stress temporarily because nonsociopaths will inhabit this state of mind only briefly and experimentally, and then, on the assumption that any suffering the prank causes its victim will be experienced as relatively fleeting and superficial.
But I use a “practical joke” analogy because I think it describes somewhat accurately the sociopath’s basic perspective in the world. Life, for the sociopath, is something like a big stage on which to perpetrate forms of ongoing deceit to suit his shifting agenda for comfort, convenience, tension discharge, and other gratifications.
After all, at the motivational heart of the “practical joker” is the driving question, Can I pull this off? This is a question, among others—a kind of perpetual carrot, if you will—that compels sociopathically-oriented personalities.
And the socopath’s response to this implicitly posed question is felt, if not implicitly answered, as, “Of course I can pull this off! I can pretty much pull anything off! Watch me do it! Watch me get away with this!”
In other words, the sociopath’s cocky faith in his powers of chicanery nicely captures his inflated grandiosity and sense of omnipotence. To put it even more basically, the sociopath thinks he is good, really good. And in inverse proportion to how smart he thinks he is, he thinks that you are just as stupid.
This is the sociopath’s signature contempt, and let us not underestimate it: You are as stupid as he is smart.
In the end, the sociopath ultimately takes neither you, nor anyone, seriously. And it’s not that he chooses not to respect people. It’s not that he’s unwilling to take others seriously. It’s that he can’t. And make no mistake: his inability to take people seriously, in an authentic way, is a core aspect of his disorder.
Does the nonpsychotic sociopath, intellectually, know right from wrong? This is a frequently posed question, to which the answer is yes. Intellectually, the nonpsychotic sociopath is usually well aware that his behaviors are exploitive and violate legal and interpersonal laws and boundaries.
But the point is, he just doesn’t care. The sociopath just doesn’t take these laws and interpersonal boundaries seriously, because he doesn’t take you, or others, seriously.
And so this is where his imperturbability enters. When you don’t take others seriously; when, on some level, others are a joke to you; when a malignant contempt pervades your view of others, then you can have your way with them, you can use them for whatever purposes suit your immediate agenda. Moreover, you can cause them pain and outrage as you seek your own ends unburdened by normal feelings of responsibility, accountability and guilt, because you don’t just don’t take them seriously.
So you’re caught in a lie? So you’ve been busted? Big deal. So your denials are preposterous? Big deal. Let’s remember, you are slick and smart enough to convince any stupid person to disbelieve the indisputable evidence of your guilt!
And even if you can’t persuade them to give you a pass this time; even if they’ve busted you cold this time, and your normally reliable glibness doesn’t spring you from the present trap, so what? After all, there’s no shame or embarrassment to be busted by someone you don’t take seriously.
And so the sociopath’s imperturbability, in this light, can be seen as a natural byproduct of his malignant disrespect of, and contempt towards, others. It is a pathological imperturbability, not an admirable, enviable one. His is not the imperturbability of a “cool cat,” or an enviably placid temperament, or the imperturbability that can derive from a certain hard-earned wisdom, confidence and perspective.
No, the sociopath’s imperturbability is that of an emotionally, interpersonally sick individual who, at bottom, has no true emotional stake in others.
And so finally, in his relationships with others, what he stands to lose, through his exploitation, is felt to be as superficial, and dismissable, as anything he stands to gain.
(My use of male gender pronouns in this article is for convenience’s sake and not to suggest females aren’t capable of the behaviors discussed. This article is copyrighted © 2010 by Steve Becker, LCSW.)
written by Steve Becker, LCSW • Permalink •
OxDrover says:
Dear Sabrina,
((((hugs)))) and TOWANDA! for you taking care of yourself both physically and spiritually. We need to do that for sure!!!!
It’s been rough for me the past few weeks because I am working on the petition to the parole board (with an attorney) to KEEP my son in prison and NOT let him out on parole. It has been very triggering for me, but I am finally recovering my “steam” and plugging on. It will be a big relief to me if he gets another 5 years “set off” (he can’t even go to the parole board again for another 5 years) but that is the maximum time they can give him, he must be reviewed every 5 years. My attorney (THE best parole attorney in Texas) says that they CAN and MAY keep him in prison for his natural life, BUT what will actually happen is they may keep him until he becomes a medical cost liability to the state, at which time they will parole him so the state is not having to pay to get him medical care.
Medical care in prison is not great any way, but they do have to treat some things and especially if there is someone on the outside who is “on their case” about not giving him adequate care. In the past, that WAS ME, but now he has only my 80 yr old egg donor to support him and I’m not sure she is able to do so effectively. My son is only 39 now so even though his health has been neglected in the past, and diet etc is not the best (without outside money to buy vitamins, the inmates will actually get scurvy, which he has done a time or two) He has also had staph infections of the skin which broke out into boils because his diet was deficient in iron, which he has to buy iron supplements or they break out again, and even if he wants an asprin for a head ache, he must buy that and any other over-the-counter medication..Since he has severe nasal allergies (our family curse) he usually has a chronic sinus infection and head ache which OTC meds do not help much, if any. He did manage (with my help) a few years ago to get a severe (shoulder muscle) rotator cuff tear (suffered in a fight) surgically repaired, and needs surgery on an ankle and one wrist, also from fight injuries, but doubt at this time he will get those without me there to make noise.
I used to be constantly in a state of anxiety about his health, but now I don’t worry about that at all. Whatever happens to him is on him, and is the consequence he has to pay for taking a young woman’s life. Personally, I think a ball and chain gang or devil’s island is the best place for him, but even that won’t bring her back. So the best that I can do is to try to keep him in prison both for her sake, her family’s sake and my own safety.
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sabrina says:
Oxy, Hi darlin, Thanks for your support. I am sending you hugs and best wishes in reading that you are having to prepare for the parole hearing, and praying for peace for you with all the anxiety that must bring.
When you give the details of your sons incarceration,I can see the layers of emotional turmoil that you must have gone thru and have lived with for so many years. It is truly a mothers heart to continue to watch over the medical care of your son. I do understand your point of not living in anxiety about his health anymore, its a full time job of which I am seeing (with my son) is never ending. You have done all that you can without condoning or enabling,which I admire.
From what you have shared here, you have a strong faith that has helped you get thru the difficult times. I just encourage you to keep pressing on, and never give up on your hearts desires!
These days, I am identifying more and more with parents that are having their hearts ripped out from P children, but I refuse to give up, give in, or give out! xoxo
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OxDrover says:
Dear Sabrina,
“never give up?”—I didn’t give up for so long, and I DID enable him, that’s the worst part. I sent him money, I visited him (long distance) I BELIEVED him, I wanted to believe him, and even when I KNEW IN MY SOUL he was a monster, I kept hanging on to that FANTASY.
He was part of my life though he has not lived in my home (and only had one visit for a day) since 1989, 21 years, yet I kept him in my mind as a PART OF MY DAY, every day, as a part of my life, every day—he was HERE in my house that he has never even visited. He was REAL though he might as well have been a cyber affair with someone on the internet, and the son I loved was/is DEAD, gone, and he was animating the corpse like a zombie in some old B grade movie—walking, but no soul, talking but no soul….so it has been a long hard road but I no longer believe my son is alive, because he isn’t, that sweet little boy (I still have his early report cards and pictures) is gone—buried, grieved over, missed, but the ZOMBIE man is just another convict, and it would be a relief to me if someone would shank his sorry arse. Unfortunately, that is not in my hands, it is in God’s so I will accept whatever happens as what God’s will is…and trusting that is sometimes difficult…but maybe that is the lesson I need to learn. (((hugs)))) and God bless.
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autisticsouls says:
Oh Kathy, this is Mike, it’s too awful. everyone is falling apart,
she didn’t come home. we called the police j was going crazy. her mom, our nurse was so scared, j was climbing on walls. no answer. no where to know where she disappeared to. police wouldn’t look for her until 72 hours they said. said seeing things and bad feelings wasn’t enough to go on. we didn’t know where she was. j said he has her. he has her. he’s going to kill her. cops not taking her seriously. how does she know? oh she felt it. Right. they wouldn’t listen. j been on edge all week. we tried to keep her close. her mom not leaving her out of her sight. but she took off j told her not to go. j screamed something awful when she left. i couldn’t sleep, we pleaded with the cops, gave them her car tag number but they wouldn’t think of it until 72 hours. told us they were probably making up somewhere. we are so upset because we told the police to do something that we knew she was in danger, shouldn’t they have looked anyway? we just didn’t know where she was, he had her in her car. we could have stopped it if they had listened and put out an alert on her car, maybe. the time we all called the police she was still alive. she WAS STILL ALIVE. why couldn’t they have run the alert? we were frantic looking for her. then that was it. j gets real quiet looks out the window and says she’s gone. nothing is going to hurt her nomore. i was just so sick inside because i knew it too. i knew she was gone. i knew it was too late. oh god it hit the news before the police even told her mother. oh god we couldn’t save her. j put her head through the wall. went through the sheet rock to the stud. again and again. i can’t even patch the wall it has to be replaced. the grandmother had a heart attack. our nurse is beyond consolation. i wasn’t here when j posted. i had to be with the family. i think i could see it all sink in to her. i was so mad because she’s like she’s safe now, it’s not like we’re never going to see her again. I was grilling her about how it’s not about how O’s in a better place, or that she’s free and not afraid anymore or that someday we’ll all see her again. it’s a child being raised with a murdered mother by her father’s hand. it’s picking up all the pieces left behind. it’s parents losing their only child in the most horrific way. it’s them and a child being in THIS world without her. it’s the mess and pain in THIS world without her for her family. no one in THIS world really cares about how much better it is somewhere else, we just see the pain and hell that this one can be. i just didn’t want her chirping about being in a better place. this is now and it’s horrific. i feel so awful because she just snapped. i pushed her too hard. i know i did. she can’t handle this. she still sets the table for her aunt, dammit. why did i have to be so harsh? oh shit how are we going to all come throw this? our nurse, her family, they were family. i don’t know if they are going to recover. i don’t know it. j seems to finally absorb the whole loss of it all. j blames herself now. couldn’t save her aunt and now again couldn’t save O. shit. oh shit. all day i was just sleep walking. helping making funeral arrangements. just organizing and putting things in order. picking out flower arrangements and being my orderly self. but then it hit’s me again who i’m making the arrangements for. and i just feel like shit to be picking out color coordinated flowers to match stuff like THE room. and how an open casket is impossible because who would want to see her LIKE that. i mean how are they going to fix her? she’s like a broken rag doll now. why do people put up brightly colored flowers around anyway? flowers for valentines day and for funferals i don’t get it. like pretty stuff around a sad event? i don’t know, but pick and lavender does clash with the room really, should i tell folks white only?. i wonder what O would have picked? what sort of casket? gold engrained wood or painted white? everything in her favorite color maybe? what was it even? i never asked. our nurse just looks blankly at nothing, slumped and broken. she seems to have shrunk. she was a strong woman but she’s all shrinking into herself, so tiny and pale. what 23 year old plans out her casket, anyway? or even thinks about her funeral arrangments? it’s not like her room. oh shit. i just don’t know why i’m getting stuck on senseless details. i just don’t know what else to do. j’s forehead is okay though. i wish i knew why he did it. why. he didn’t love her, just wanted to control her. siad she was his to do what he pleased. he says when it’s over…. he was happy she would never start her life without him. that he won… WTF?……Why couldn’t he just move on to someone else like the rest of them? i’ll never understand it.
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Kathleen Hawk says:
Mike, you’re in grief. Bad, bad first-stage grief. And you’re sleepwalking through it, getting done what needs to get done. But you’re still dealing with a big, whacking trauma.
J is in pain. O’s family is in pain. In situations like this, family groups go through a lot of wave forms. Because all the individuals are cycling through different emotions. Anger. Sadness. Shock. And one of those emotions is survivor’s guilt, which is really complicated, because it shifts the focus from the loss of a loved one to feeling bad about yourself.
So that’s what you’re dealing with, separately and together. J’s dealing with PTSD. You know this. You can help her a bit by grounding her gently in the here-and-now. Yes she saw it and all of you tried to stop it. But this really was out of your hands. What is in her hands right now is your household, your child and your need for someone to help you through this. Yes, she’s a warrior, but she also has access to higher level processing, and you can tell her you need comfort. (Because you do.) Asking her to help guide you will help her.
O’s mother is in shock. She’s going to be really emotional when she comes out of it. And probably not particularly logical or rational. That’s okay; it’s normal. For now, give her something to wrap herself with, even if it’s too warm to need anything but a sheet. She’ll feel better if she can get “close in” to something. If you can get her down on the couch, where she can huddle up, that would be good. Bring her some tea, with something like whiskey in it, if you’ve got some. Unless she’s already taking a sedative. The best thing for her right now is sleep. If she wants to talk, just sit with her. Be with her, and let her know you know how she feels. That’s enough right now.
I know that all of this looks like non-stop destruction, but I’m telling you, as J will tell you when she can access her wisdom again, that nothing happens without a reason. O went to her destiny for some reason. The changes to everyone’s lives will not be all bad, just different. And that is not to diminish the work everyone faces in grieving through this. But something will be created out of this, and your assumptions that it will all be bad are not correct. You have to learn to trust the process, because if all you feel is fear and anger, your emotions will affect it.
I’m not telling not to feel what you feel. But I am telling you to transform it as soon as you can to positive intentions and actions. That’s what your life is about. You know that. You transform adversity into positive movement. You believe in the power of positive, caring action. And that is, ultimately, what you will do with this loss.
Now, just breathe. Please. I know this is awful, a tragic and chaotic time. But all the rest of you are alive and you love each other. Supporting each other is what’s important now. And that includes you. Don’t be a superman. Ask for help and comfort.
Again, this was out of your hands. It doesn’t matter who did what — O, the police, the man who killed her — it was out of your hands. Now, go start spreading kindness, and try not to worry. The wheels of the universe are turning, and the most important thing you can do now is love each other.
Kathy
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ErinBrock says:
Mike and Des,
My heart goes out to you in this most horrible situation.
I admire your courage and strength within all the adversity.
Kathleen is offering solid recommendations……turn evil into positive, this is when we as people make the most difference!
Please, take care of the three of you, love each other and provide comfort to all involved……but mostly….take care of you….because if you are not okay……you will not be able to offer yourself to others…..
Try and get some sleep…..
I’m so very sorry!
XXOO
EB
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Kathleen Hawk says:
Mike, does that help?
I’m trying to organize the emotional patterns for you, so you can see through it. Even while you’re living through it.
Sometimes you have to be in two places. Living through things. But also seeing it from a distance. Because when everyone’s feelings are so raw and big — especially for you and J, who surely are not good at dealing with this kind of noise — you have to know that it’s all okay. To feel that way. It’s just part of a normal human process.
And knowing that it’s okay can be a big help.
What I didn’t say is that I’m so sorry. Sorry it happened. Sorry you’re going through this. I wish I could be there to wrap you all up in caring. So you could just rest.
That’s what I’m sending you. And I know that many people here will be doing the same when they read your letter. However complicated and painful it is right now, it will get better for all of you. Time is on your side.
Kathy
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one_step_at_a_time says:
I made a valentine’s card – a place where we can write love: http://lfvalentinescard.blogspot.com/
please spread the word.
best,
one step
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anitasee says:
Hello all, Talk about a classic example of impurturbability. And thanks to Erin B and Oxy et al for your recent comments and support.
My soul searching in the previous post was about walking away from the drama, the movie, the nonsense, taking my lumps and holding my head high. Of protecting myself from further harm, and going the slow but sure, live frugally and carefully kind of perspective. So I was ready to sign off on a bunch of stuff with the P…then what arrived at my doorstep but the copy of his computer hard drive, that I managed to have seized 7 months ago, and he has been preventing me from seeing ever since.
And, as I KNEW,( because he can’t help himself,) there are the spread sheets, the charts and tables spelling it all out, right down to the cost of the cleaning lady, giving me 9.6 million good reasons to hang in there and fight.
The point being, how f’ing unflappable is that? He knew what was in there,( the computer) and all this time has shown complete indifference, go ahead, there is nothing in there blah blah blah…I had almost lost interest myself he was so convincing.
But to the courts, his demeanor has been VERY effective.
That is how these creatures prevail.
Most of us look for signs of guilt, or contrition, or nerves, when we are sizing someone up in a challenging situation. The P always has a HUGE advantage, because we measure them from our perspective and emotional base.
They are unfathomable. They literally do not make sense to most of us. It reminds me of the point in maybe Martha Stouts book or the Good Canadian Dr. whose name escapes me presently….but the point was that SPN’s and or liars ALWAYS have an advantage, because we- the observers or judges, are so conditioned to always look for “the other side of the story” and we are conditioned to give both sides equal merit and weight. And that is where they have us…once we give the lies equal weight as the truth, the truth has been comprimised…and so it goes…until they have it all and control it all….and then the truth has to stand up and be heard and celebrated until the cycle begins again. I guess what it comes down to is constant vigilance is necessary to protect our truth..because lies are very cheap and can be very powerful.
And welcome Des and sorry for all you are going through. Be some very wise things you have shared with us.
Peace to all,
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one_step_at_a_time says:
to let everyone know – i made a ‘valentine’s card’ for us @
http://lfvalentinescard.blogspot.com
anything you want to post, just send it through to me at the email listed there.
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midlifecrisis says:
Anita – what do you think is in those spreadsheets? Why was it cheeky of him not to be worried or embarrassed??? Have you found something or do you just ‘know’ something is in there?
All the best for sifting through the evidence!
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ErinBrock says:
Anita:
Ahhhhhhh……I sense a rejuvination coming over you!
YES!!!!
You go girl……go through each and every part of that computer…..take note of everything…….even if it doesn’t make sense now…..it will later….I ASURE YOU!
Get to coscto and stock up on printer ink….and print everything……put it in piles, separated and then into binders….or files.
I think I ended up going through 6 costco packs of ink…..YIKES!
there was so much paperwork……It was easier to print at home.
DON”T GIVE UP……
You’ve found your second wind…….
I found whatever he did or said……I reversed it…..that turned out to be the truth.
It’s very telling……if they are not worried…..oh YES they are!
They’d never tell us…..NEVER!!!
So…..look at his behaviors…..look at your documentation…..look at the situation…..
AND DRAG OUT THE INNER SOCIOPATH IN YOU AND FIGHT!!!!!
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ICthruhim says:
This article really struck a chord with me. My ex-SP seemed totally unaffected when I caught him in lies and confronted him. Now I know its because it was no big deal what I thought of him, since he didn’t take me or anyone else seriously. One night, he convinced me he was dying. He was laying in the bed, having me bring him food. He told me he had just been diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. It was all very dramatic, – he was very dramatic, crying- the whole bit. I started crying and couldn’t stop. The reality was that he was drunk and I told him he couldn’t come home drunk anymore – so he had to find a way around that. The next day, my eyes were almost swollen shut. He asked me what heppened to my eyes and I confronted him. At first he denied it, saying “I don’t think I would say that”. Then he didn’t even bother trying to deny – his attitude was just “so what?” Turns out there was nothing wrong with him, and he basically told me to “get over it” because I was appalled that he would lie about dying.
To this day, the only time he showed signs of really being peturbed was when they read the guilty verdict and he was rightfully convicted for assaulting my 12 yr old son. But right up until they said “guilty as charged” he still looked completely cocky and not the least bit worried. However, his demeanor changed when he realized his consequences were inescapable and for once in his life he wasn’t going to “get away with it”!
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OxDrover says:
Dear IC,
Glad you are back here, what was the sentence for him for assaulting your son? I hope it was “life without parole” LOL
Yea, they can LIE LIKE A RUG AND NOT BE THE LEAST BIT UPSET just because you catch them. They think they can lie their way out of a lie with another one—”get over it” Yea, we WILL get over it but they will NEVER CHANGE!
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one_step_at_a_time says:
ICthruhim – mine fake died.
charming.
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geminigirl says:
One step darling girl, Dont let this freak go on living rent free in your head! you are worth so much more! You know we all love you!
{HUGS} MamaGem.XX
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one_step_at_a_time says:
gem – like that you call her a ‘freak’. it’s such a good descriptor.
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one_step_at_a_time says:
okay, i am off to bed. tink I can sleep now. it’s been a bit of a rough night.
night night gem, have a good day
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geminigirl says:
You too, darling! tomorrow will be better. love, mamaGem.XX
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geminigirl says:
Hey, one step, this may help you to see the freak in her true colours. Just imagine her in a Victorian Freak show, -you know the kind of thing, the mermaid, the bearded lady, the smallest man in the world, kind of thing. See her in a glass case, labelled.”Freak show, this wierd specimen can change its sex at will! Silver coin donation! havea good laugh!” I almost guarantee this will help you see her in her true colours, a sad, lonely sick freak. Why waste any more brain cells on her? Now, I want you to STOP thinking bout her.OK? Enough already.! Shes taking up space in your head!Love, gem.XXsave your precious energy for getting WELL!!!
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one_step_at_a_time says:
gem – i have a very good connection to old tyme circus. i like that side show freak idea, but not because she can change sex at will, that actually doesn’t disturb me. her supposed gender lability as a fake boy was one of the things i liked about her.
what does disturb me is that she uses anything and everything to use people. she is a freak because she is contemptuous of loving humanity, lacks conscience and anything that can be recognized as a moral compass.
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Cat says:
Mike and D, I just read what happened and my heart and soul go out to you. We don’t know one anther, but I’m sending you healing prayers and hugs. PLEASE listen to Kathy. Read and re-read what she’s written. She’s wonderful and has helped me through some crucial moments.
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one_step_at_a_time says:
PTSD LINK: http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health.....ndex.shtml
I also searched ‘PTSD archive’ once i was on the site and came up with reams of material.
Belleruth Naperstek has a beautiful CD for PTSD
http://belleruthnaparstek.com/
And I found a series of interviews with her on youtube (don’t mind the interviewer (rolls eyes))
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PgmATF2suE
a shoult out ty to the stoopid mugger who has propelled me, to yet fucking again learn something.
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Cat says:
one-step,
Thank you for the links! I just went to the first one and there is much to read there. Going to check out the others as well.
Yes, thanks to them, we are propelled into a new world that’s full of new lessons, but I would rather be learning than living like I once was! And I’m rather liking what I’m learning these days. Your valentine was wonderful-thank you so much!
Paper trails-have plenty of them and like you, EB, I’ve gone through tons of cartridges but it’s the only way to have as complete a set of documents as possible. The ONLY thing my ex spath is worth is the money I’m spending on ink and paper. I’m thinking my printer is going to give up on me soon as I’ve worn it out.
IC-what IS it with them and this ability to act out insane things like having cancer? It’s such a serious issue and many of us have faced the real thing and yet, they think nothing of having ‘fake’ diseases. Mine did the same; whenever things were at a head and he knew it was close to him going, he would have some king of medical emergency that required him being taken to the hospital by ambulance(can we have a little more drama here?) and of course they always obliged because he’s very diabetic and uses that as an excuse to get pity and attention. It was like he was saying, “You can’t kick out a sick man, now can you?” At the end, he pulled this stunt a couple of times and I sent him off in the ambulance and then stayed home. I didn’t visit him or even take his calls for a day or two. I had peace and I liked it! I was on to him and he knew it. Oh, I so do NOT miss those days! I don’t know what he did to your son, but I’m so sorry that had to happen to a child. I have a son who is 10 and he’s very precious to me. Whatever he did, I hope he got life, as Ox suggested..
The ONLY time I saw my ex nervous was when he stood before the judge waiting for sentencing. He cried like a baby. The judge saw through that, however, and sentenced him anyways. BUT, up until that point, he was as calm as could be. AND he always ended up in jail because someone else did it to him. He has never taken responsibility for his own actions.
So, what else is knew…Sigh…
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one_step_at_a_time says:
More PTSD RESOURCE – on belleruth’s website there is a ‘research’ link.
you’re welcome cat – i can’t wait to wade through some of this.
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Cat says:
one step, i saw that. i can’t wait to wade through some of it myself. hey, at least we’re in the solution and farther and farther away from the problem every day!
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one_step_at_a_time says:
cat – i sighed relief when i read your post. it’s true. for this moment it is true.
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ICthruhim says:
Cat and Ox, I wish he was sentenced for life. It would save so many future victims. He choked my son – for missing the school bus! Thank God I was there and pulled him off my son. With everything else I had put up, I knew at that moment our marriage was over. He was arrogant and cocky from the time leading up to the trial, and at the trial – until the verdict was read. They sentenced him to 3 years 9 months. However, I just found out that he will be out 6 months earlier than I had expected because he gets 1 day credit for every 6 days served!!!!
This is funny, this is actually the latest thing he pulled from prison. My 18 year old daughter received a letter from an inmate in the same prison complex. He wrote stating a “friend” gave him her address and said maybe she would be interested in getting to know him! Exactly what I would want – someone setting up my daughter with a convicted felon!!! Its just his insidious way of messing with me even in there.
Cat, isn’t it funny how they can use tears, illness, and other drama when they know you’re getting wise to them??
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one_step_at_a_time says:
IC – is there anything that you can do to have him kept in longer? and is there anyone who you can report the letter to your daughter to? that’s heinous.
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ICthruhim says:
One step, I wish there was – but the legal system is what it is. I am lucky he got convicted with prison time – they were trying to negotiate probation which would have been a complete joke.
As far as my daughter, I don’t think there is anything I can do to actually “prove” he did it. The inmate does not say who his friend is that gave him the address. Of course I know its him.
At one point, he was transferred to a jail for another legal proceeding. As soon as he had the opportunity, he started calling me violating a Order of protection. I had the police come out twice and filed reports. As far as know, they did nothing with it – DA must have figured he’s already in prison – so whats the big deal. I wanted new charges filed!!
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OxDrover says:
Dear IC,
Ohhhhhhh, Yea!!!! How so like my P-son your x is. I am glad that he got ANY time really, and maybe you can at least get a restraining or no contact order—also, when he gets out he will be on probation (I hope) so if so, I suggest that you contact the office of the victim’s advocate for your state, NOW, and in my state they will keep you updated on when they change status, get out, etc. and who the parole officer is.
Save that letter, it may not be “proof” since the other inmate doesn’t say who the “friend” is, but I suggest that you contact the warden or the head of the institution he is in and send him a copy of that letter and a short explaination of what it is, and some HEAT should fall on the inmate that sent the letter, and he will then be PITHED off at your X. Your X will GLOAT, but at least you are letting him know that you are NOT LYING DOWN and cowering from hiim.
I also suggest that you do whatever you can to protect your daughter from harm. It would be like your X to send someone after her to harass her. I don’t mean to make you “paranoid” but JUST BECAUSE YOU ARE PARANOID DOESN’T MEAN SOMEONE IS NOT OUT TO GET YOU.
I’ve dealt with the prison system long enough by now that I’m kinda getting to know the ropes. I do know a bit about how to cause grief for an inmate or parolee. I got the Trojan Horse P’s parole delayed from May to December and so that was better than nothing. I dropped the ball during the time he and my DIL were in jail awaiting a plea bargain, I had too much on my plate to stay on top of it, but now, I am getting back my old moxie and am full bore ahead with blocking my P-son’s parole, hired an attorney to help me, THE BEST at that in the state of Texas—worth every cent I think! I’d sell blood or plasma if I had to, or a kidney, to get the money and still think it was CHEAP!
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Cat says:
Dearest IC,
He thought he could get just probation for that? Clearly, your ex is a person who has poor self-control and anger issues and to take it out on a child is absolutely heinous! I never hear a story of a child being hurt without getting so angry about it! It’s unacceptable in my book and I know it happens all the time, but that doesn’t make it right nor will it ever be. I know the laws to a small degree and have found they do NOT support the victim as they should. Often, I am finding, the laws are more in favor of the perpetrator. It’s not right, it’s not fair, but that’s how it is. If OX (go OX!) could get the delay, then perhaps so could you as well. I readily admit I don’t know the prison system, but I do know that the victim’s advocate that helped me was the ONE person I came to trust in the justice system. She has just helped me recently, but that’s another story.
I am concerned for your daughter, as are you and as Ox said, I would suggest contacting the state’s victim’s advocate. I think you have a very strong case here. Definitely a restraining order would work here. Sending you courage, energy and spitfire!! on this.
Yes, they do get the most amazing diseases and medical conditions at the most convenient times, don’t they? Mine did that even when I just walked away from it all. Of course, those around him who didn’t know him thought I was mean and cruel. AFTER they discovered what he was really about, they didn’t care either.
Ox, wish I could help you with the kidney! I get where you’re coming from. It takes a lot of energy, time and money to deal with them BUT I believe it does pay off in the end, even if that ending is simply knowing that you’ve done your best at the end of the day.
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OxDrover says:
Dear Cat, Ah yes, they sure do “get diseases” to try to suck pity from us. I let a woman “victim” who was living in her little tiny truck/rv come here and park safely til she could get back to work and get a place of her own….well, she apparently decideed she liked it here, and living in her RV was okay for the time but she planned on moving in, and did NOT plan on getting a job, so I eventually told her she had to move on since being here was obviously NOT assisting her to move up in the world.
She immediately told me she thought she had breast cancer, and even though I had offered to get her to the free clinic here SEVERAL times, she had refused to go, and ditto with the one free dental clinic I know about (and that day after I told her she had to leave) she told me she had had a tooth ache jfor weeks. I asked her, “didn’t I offer to take you to the dentist?” She said, “Yes, but you were always so busy” (so it was my fault!)
She then actually whipped out one of her boobs and showed me an inverted nipple (which can but is NOT ALWAYS a sign of cancer, it is mostly if one CHANGES from outtie to innie that it MIGHT be a sign) as her proof she might have cancer. I replied very calmly, “If you go to X hospital you can get a free mammogram and I would advise you to go.”
I swear, they can come up with some of the most outrageous things to try to get people to pity them. It only works though IF WE ALLOW IT. My P-son worked me over for all the “pity” I have left so from now on, I will be careful where I bestow “pity” or “compassion” to those that REALLY have something wrong with them besides a PERSONALITY DISORDER and a propensity to LIE. LOL
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Cat says:
one-step,
one day at a time, we move farther into healing and farther away from the source of our pain and in doing that, we grow stronger. hugs!
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Cat says:
Dear Ox,
As opposed to those with FAKE diseases, my son’s school called yesterday and I had to pick him up and today we’re seeing the doctor, which is why I didn’t respond to your post when I wanted to.
Oh, this must have been your “visitor” who wouldn’t leave and why of course, she would whip out the old breast and show you that! Honestly, I had to smile when I read that. (I’m extremely visual.) It’s an example of the lengths they will go to to get what they want. It’s a dead give away when they don’t take up the offer of FREE exams and treatment that there is nothing really wrong and it’s all just a hoax.
In my case, after 2 shoulder surgeries, mine started whining about the possibility of a third one just before he got the boot here. He developed all kinds of aches and pains, spasms, etc.. I watched him go through fake stomach episodes, chest pains, the list goes on and on.
It does rather incense me that when my ex spath did this stuff, he took up valuable space, time and personnel in emergency rooms that could have been better used by those who really needed care. Of course, the hospitals started catching on awhile ago.
I quit being phased by his “illnesses” a long time ago. It’s all an act. Even when he put himself into a mental facility, for rehab AGAIN, I didn’t buy that. I think they sense it’s coming to an end and they’re going to go and this is just another way of them to get what they want, a place to live and do nothing.
I’m just so glad that’s out of my life! I can devote my energy now to myself and my son who really IS sick.
Still visualizing
Cat
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one_step_at_a_time says:
tis a cold and snowy day. i am sick and angered by these beasts
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Rosa says:
“I could have a heart attack!” was the line and health condition of choice for my ex, whenever he needed a little sympathy and all eyes on him.
This infuriated me, because there are so many people who actually ARE suffering with serious health conditions.
Thankfully, the “heart attack” never materialized, as far as I know.
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Matt says:
Rosa:
My S-ex’s threat/promise of choice was “I have high blood pressure. I’ll end up having a stroke like my mother.”
Initially I felt sorry for him. By the end all I used to think was “Good. Have one. Then I’m going to go to nursing school and become your nurse. And I will jab that fucking needle in 10 times a day.”
What a waste of resources — mine, society’s, the planet’s. That oxygen thief was a total waste of resources.
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one_step_at_a_time says:
mine: 3 major illnesses, 2 open heart surgeries, died in the middle of whatever the fuck the last one was………..ALLLL FAKKKKEEEDDD. fuck i hate her guts.
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one_step_at_a_time says:
‘dangerous and necessary’ cross continent air lift, mental break downs, suicide attempts…….fuck i hate her guts.
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one_step_at_a_time says:
took just a little mugging and a note from someone about who else she’s fucking over right now to ‘help me access my anger’.
we may never get it back in the box. and good. this skeezey horror show deserves to have her hands chopped off and her tongue severed…then we could say; go, and sin no more.
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one_step_at_a_time says:
I am right over the moon fucking angry. This fucking woman – she goes on and one doing the same shit, with impunity. I have had the honour of hearing others stories in the the last weeks – here and and in connections with the spat I tangled with. Dios.
And every story that ‘scorches’ me, makes me more and more certain that I have to out her. She cannot play on- hurting people like she were just taking the skins off of grapes and not people’s souls. What a ‘lying sack of evil she is. All the things she accused others of….the evil man who locked her in small spaces and starved her and raped her – all lies, stories STOLEN from the pain of other’s lives. STOLEN> STOLEN> or worse yet, are they all projections of things she has done?
It is only through accessing the pain of others’ stories that I am really accessing mine – no one in the day to day world wants to know of my pain, and I have to work and try to stay housed…..only here can I show this face. This face is now homicidally angry. I would fucking kill her if I had a chance. NO bitch, you don’t WIN!
She keeps rolling, more and more. I can help a few I know of, but after that….what can i do? She will continue to move on to another website, ‘cause it makes it all so much easier to pull her scams on the net.
I find myself censoring myself – even here. The bain of the internet, of writing things down, of speaking them out – judgment. Judicial or otherwise.
I want to dog her till the day I die.
And I want a completely different life that doesn’t involve her – but if it must, may she suffer the inconveniences of losing her internet connection – often, her telephone connection daily.
ROWWWWRRRR.I FUCKING HATE YOU!!!!!!!!!!
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witsend says:
One Step….
Take a Deeeeep Breath. Release. Again….That is the same thing we do with anger. It arises and we release it. We let it out.
There might come a time when you do decide to “out” her. But right at THIS moment you need to direct your energy for yourself. Because it will take alot of energy and time to formulate a plan, if that is what you decide to do.
First WIN yourself back. A bigger and better, and healthier, One Step.
Think of THAT as getting one over her. Remember one step at a time….First things first. You come first.
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slimone says:
Onestep,
I am amazed at your capacity to connect with this anger and outrage. And I believe it is a really good thing. And I hear how much you want to DO something, direct and clear, with this anger.
I have been there. And I have taken covert, but none-the-less clear and direct action myself. I took the opportunity to deliver a wounding blow. And it did have an impact. As far as I know, and as much as I am willing to ‘track’ this individual to protect my heart/life.
But given that, what I did MORE of with my disgust and outrage, was exercise, walk, dance, sweat, pound, lift weights. MOVE the energy OUT. If you are so motivated and able I found movement was extremely helpful in processing anger and angst. So that it had less effect on my sleep, my overall health.
If you ever want to know what I chose to do by way of sabotage, and warning others’, ask Donna for my email, and we can talk off site.
Slim
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one_step_at_a_time says:
slim – i am and i will.
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one_step_at_a_time says:
witty – i thank you for your care and wisdom.
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one_step_at_a_time says:
and witty – i have been formulating a plan for months. i used my obsessive thinking time to hone it.
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one_step_at_a_time says:
Steve: This article has spoken to me more loudly than any other on lf – do you have any plans to expand on it?
best,
one step
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autisticsouls says:
Hello everyone just catching up to posts, I’m so far behind, this is Mike
Kathy thank you so much for helping me through this week. i really felt you here along with us. Des has been a little shut off and i guess i can understand that. thank you erin and cat and ltl, somehow something good must come of this, if anything can.
there will be no chance of parole and in florida they are seeking the death penalty…
i don’t know how i feel about that since i’m morally against capital punishment, two wrongs don’t make a right. Murder is wrong and planning on someone to die is premeditated murder in my book. i just can’t reconcile the whole of it. considering that throughout this des is going all old testament on me on this topic. (we’re jews, but i always liked jesus, and we aren’t really religious although we follow the traditions somewhat) Des, in great contrast to me, seems more inclined to an old fashioned stoning. i would hope she would be joking, but she doesn’t joke, so she’s not.
the investigators told us all that they would be seeking the death penalty which left me uneasy. i mean just lock him away from life never to live amongst society ever again, but death penalty? i asked Des you really okay with that? to which she answered “be so i’ll bring the popcorn.” which threw me off some because she wasn’t kidding on that either.
i guess it’s harder for her. she is not so accessable to people, she has a limited number of folks she cares deeply about and allows within reach and they seem to drop like flies around her lately. which is an exageration but having two caregivers brought down by murder I guess it is difficult to not be affected. not to mention we need a new nurse for a bit. so our routine is all off. Autistics and their routine. it’s near sacred.
but i’m fooling myself though, des has always had a extreme outlook on them (pretenders), murders or not. things were always black and white to her, all or nothing. right and wrong, good and evil.. very little grey areas. she did not enjoy tv programs like Lost or Battlestar Galactica because of how the characters would be seen in different lights, everyone has done things they are not proud of, or have given into frialties, at some point or another or have risen to the occasion to somehow redeem themselves… it’s the whole human experience…
not that this situation is anything more than simply horrific, the murder was planned, the room decorated as in a early Valentines gift filled with flowers and wine and candles made up like a funeral… a St. Valentine’s funeral. ‘O’ knew she would die in that room, he had psychologically tortured her this way as well as physically tortured her, and yet if we have the means to lock such a person away for life, where the rest of society will be safe and his freedom taken away for life… isn’t that enough?
i can not reconcile the death penalty concept, i feel i can not be responsible for another human’s life to be taken. des reminds me of the story of amalek (talk about getting all old testament on me, i wasn’t kidding)
The story goes about the nation of Amalek, Amalek, the tribe that attacked the Israelites from the back as they traveled across the desert. Amalek is considered to be the paradigm of evil, the archenemy of the Jewish people… That the nation of Israel is commanded to eradicate in Deut. 25:17-19… Amalek’s entire existence is based on the non-existent. Therefore, we are to treat Amalek as they believe: we treat them as if they are a freak of nature, an anomaly never intended to exist, and therefore, under the laws of nature, subject to destruction, relegated to the realm of nothingness. That not even the memory of the nation of Amalek should exist…
Which is really extreme to me. but i wonder if des really feels that way and if so to how much of an extent? is she talking out of pain? or do i need to hire a body guard to keep her in line? is it me taking things too asperger syndrome literal?
It was some time after her aunt was killed by some pretender that another pretender was brought to our home by Des’s sister, her boyfriend. he didn’t do anything. Okay, so it turned out that he wasn’t who he said he was, and we later found out he was guilty of mortgage fraud and was recently arrested for loan modification fraud, and perhaps other stuff he was into that he didn’t want to be hashed out so he never pressed charges… But Des just went at him, if i didn’t get in the way i don’t know what would have happened to him. she still got to him though with such ferocity i can’t even describe now. it spooked him/me something awful.
Now no one is allowed into our home until she meets them first outside and checks them out with a thorough sniff down. no kidding.. think bloodhound sniffing up your butt. she does this. except with her sister’s ex and that domestic violence Killer guy it was a quick reaction, best described as like ‘hate’ at first sight, she went off the deep end, eye’s wild, growling and hissing. that Killer guy wasn’t in her territory so she never had a go at him. she’d known he was dangerous. knew it but he moved away from her and she stepped back from him, breathing heavy, nostrils flaring. but each eyeing each other warily like any moment they were going to throwdown. i had to tug at her and shove her into the car because any sudden move he made and i knew she wouldn’t hold back. Our nurse was so spooked, eyes wide and shaken by Des’s reaction to him, she had backed up from him staring at him like she was seeing him for the first time. I apologized for Des but she said no, she was okay with Des.
He hadn’t been afraid of her really just seemed undecided to either challenge her outright or to back off. you could have cut the tension and hatred between them with a knife the air was so thick. he stopped playing at being friendly then. and just changed his demeanor completely towards everyone…
i have to wonder though, and am having her go to a therapist to talk to her about stuff because it’s like i’m wondering how safe is she going to be if she truly feels the nation of amalek must be destroyed? i don’t take the bible literally and just wonder whether she does now?
I’m just hoping she moves past this. thinks of us as a family that needs her. and comes back to us. Leave Amalek to G-d to deal with. i just need my wife and our child needs her mother. we’ll be safe. she can keep US safe. she knows them. that is certain. she can smell them out. but she mustn’t go after them. let the florida justice system take care of him/them. show me which children carry the trait so we can work vigilantly to turn it around and save them from that inclination. let’s live and bring good to the world. don’t let them taint us. Don’t let them make us ugly. Don’t proclaim war on them. we can’t win that way.
As a precaution i put signs out on our door, “forget the dog, worry about the owner.” “no trespassing”. and “tresspasser’s will be shot” (although we have no arms) and a hand written one stating by des, “No pretenders allowed. Seek not to enter here, Be so you suffer the dire consequences if you so overlook this rule…”
i just think (and hope) that it’s been a horrific week and it will take time to get back to ‘our’ normal…
Mike
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slimone says:
Onestep, Looking forward to connecting with you….Slim
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