LETTERS TO LOVEFRAUD: How should I “be” around my ex?
PDF In February 1999, my sociopathic ex-husband, James Montgomery, was finished with me. I had no more money, no more credit and no more earning capacity, because my business was ruined. So Montgomery arranged for me to find out that he’d had a child with another woman during our marriage. With this, I left, as I’m sure he expected.
Oh, he made a few attempts to reel me back in. “It’s not what you think,” he said. “Let me explain.” I didn’t. I kept driving.
I never saw him again. And now, after hearing so many of your stories about the sociopaths who won’t go away, I realize how lucky I was. I didn’t have a child with him. I didn’t have to attempt to co-parent with a sociopath, while the sociopath tried to turn the children against me.
My heart breaks for all of you in this unwinnable situation, stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Not long ago, I heard from a woman who is in this position. We’ll call her “Marsha.” Marsha was married for 16 years to a guy who she now knows is a sociopath. They’ve been divorced for two years. They have five kids—two teenagers, three younger. Her ex has regular visitation times when he’s supposed to pick up the kids, although he hasn’t shown up for his Saturday afternoon time in months.
Marsha sometimes sees her ex at events for the kids, which is uncomfortable for her. She writes:
The last one was particularly upsetting for me, as he came over to my mom and gave her a hug, asked her how she was, and appeared to be very moved to see her. I know it is all bs, but the cognitive dissonance it creates…
How should I “be” around my ex? Do I speak in a friendly tone, similar to the way he is speaking to me, do I keep everything monotone, do I try to avoid speaking to him altogether, or is there some other option?
I don’t know how to advise Marsha. So, Lovefraud readers, especially those of you who are coping with similar situations, what do you suggest?
written by Donna Andersen • Permalink •
ErinBrock says:
Jake:
There always seems to be more ‘work’ to do!
Keep on trucken dude!
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ThePeregrine says:
I think this is a very important question (how to “be” …).
My approach is to be pleasantly unavailable. For a while, I would bristle when she came around in public places and tried various provocations; any such reaction on my part is fuel for her manipulation.
No more. She is unwanted smoke in the room. I am a warm breeze.
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Quantum Solace says:
Any thing, the slightest of comments or actions is an invitation for these monsters to twist it around and use it against their victims.
I was recently in court with the monster in my life fighting over child support and college contributions towards my son. I have not seen or spoken to this monster in about 5 years. He seized the moment in the courtroom to approach me and started asking questions in front of the judge who is a total witch (with a capital B). She made me answer his questions, something I did reluctantly and with clenched teeth. Well, wouldn’t you know it? The next paper that comes out of his equally Psychopath lawyer is criticizing me for the college I have chosen for my son, how he’s wasting his talents and even making fun of the name of the school. Yep! I kid you not. Y’all should know that this is the same man that kicked my son out on the streets with the shirt on his back and now refuses not only to pay support for him but contribute towards his college education. Oh, btw, the judge doesn’t seem to find anything wrong with this scenario either. So, I’m now dealing with a Psychopath ex-husband, his Psychopath lawyer and a Psychopath judge. How’s that for shit luck?
As I always say, you just can’t make this stuff up!
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Cat says:
Louise, Congrats on the 2 year NC order! It took me a lot of work, slogging through the mire, as I call it, of constant calls to the police, being ignored or called a liar before I finally got mine and I’m doing something that EB suggested. I’m sending copies to ALL of the enforcement agencies, city police, sheriff’s department and surrounding suburb police departments, just to be on the safe side. She turned me on to the fact that they do not share this info with each other in a lot of places.
duped, after last night, I see what you mean. I had been expecting a call from someone who always calls as “anonymous”. I rarely take those calls but she had written ahead of time to let me know she was calling. The phone rings, I answer and it’s the spath. He DEMANDS I drop the NC order because it affecting his relationship with his son. CLICK goes the phone. He was still talking, but I didn’t allow it to go any further. That 10 SECONDS that I heard his voice sent me into an absolute tailspin. Yes, what we give up is peace, even during those interactions that we don’t initiate or don’t even know are coming. I had to leave the room my son was in, go upstairs and take time to settle. My peace was gone. I CANNOT stand that voice. Which is why the order is in place to begin with! I also took action and let the authorities know he had called. My land line lists all calls and what time they came in.
Jofray, Thank you for the tips! While I gave nothing away, I am going to work on that poker face which I liken to the word, INDIFFERENCE. Part of my problem and why he loved to play me is that I DID carry my emotions on my sleeve, as they say. There is much that I can stop saying in front of my son as well, therefore not allowing him to be such a huge tool for the ex spath. Yes, you are right. They look at their own children as tools and take what is said and then you ARE guilty until proven innocent in a court of law. Interesting how they can twist that around, isn’t it?
Quantum, I’ve had days where I thought I was stuck inside my own washer on the spin cycle because I’ve been through that. Yes, they will use anything and if they don’t have it, they’ll invent it. Mine had my family believed I was the one using drugs and they actually bought that for several months. They don’t now, of course, but I truly believed life was spinning out of control and I couldn’t stop it.
I can fully believe you have an ex Spath with P lawyer and a P judge as well. I walked through that too. I was forced to deal with my ex at times and it made my skin crawl. No, we can’t make this stuff up! Fictional writers couldn’t come up with what so many of us have/and still are going through. I DO believe it gets better!
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Cat says:
EB-THOSE EYES! My ex had this unsettling, unblinking stare. He could do this for a very long time. No emotions shown, none. This always seemed to happen when I was confronting him about something. I think, today, he was simply showing me the shadow of the soul that was never there to begin with. I’ve read about his kind of “stare” and found it to be quite common with them.
It’s creepy!
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Cat says:
Jake B,
Welcome! No, you are not stupid. one-step was right and I echo those sentiments. You already KNOW and that’s a huge step!
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Quantum Solace says:
Cat:
I used to describe my life with the monster as a never-ending episode of the Twilight Zone. This judge has labeled me as “a liar, unreliable and reckless” – Ha! Ain’t that a kick in the teeth? And no matter what I do or say, I can’t make her see the truth which has lead me to believe that she’s also a P/S of sorts and one in control of lives and with the power to cause some major destruction too. How convenient…and scary!
It’s been 13 years since I walked away from the bastard. When, exactly, will it get better?
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bethv says:
Donna, I spoke with you a while ago on the phone and you where helpful in that I now understand a little more how a sociopath “ticks”! I explained that I am the stepmother of 2 teenage children that my husband has with his sociopathic ex. Society assumes that all mothers are born with the desire to “mother” and love their children, as we have all found out the hard way, this is not always true. My ex is 59 yrs old and his children are 18 and 14. The 18 yr old has been estranged from us since he was 17, wanting No contact with his “loser father”. The 14 year old girl, hates having to spend her 2 hrs a week with her dad. All of this is the work of their “mother”, (I hate to give her that term). Nothing is more heartbraking and disturbing but to see a great man and father struggle every waking minute to receive any morsel of love from his children. I am a highly educated 48 yr old woman with a medical degree, and I could have never imagined or been prepared for what my husbands ex does to our lives continually and the lives of their children, and everyone in her path. The children worship her and are 100% brainwashed and dillusional. I know this will not end for us for at least 8 more years when the 14 yr. old is out of college, and the ex has no more financial hold on us. Even then she will continue to control and manipulate the children with guilt…she is the victim as she thrives as society believes she is. God help us all…..especially the children!
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AKA Bob says:
Bethv:
I am sure my wife (stepmother to my 8, 12 and 14 y/o’s) is very sympathetic to your plight, as hers (and mine) is almost the same. My ex provides financially for me (only by court order) as I supported her executive career for years and I stayed home for several years (still having hard time finding work in this economy). She moved away for her lover. She took me to court to move the children and lost. From the beginning of the court issues, starting with the day I said I would not move with the children, going through custodial evaluation (he recommended the kids don’t move) and all the way through the hearing process, my ex had cleverly, through subtle manipulation, attempted to alienate me from my kids. She felt if they told a hired “expert witness” (child therapist) that they wanted to live with her, that the court would consider it (it backfired immensely). To this day I suspect the alienation occurs passively with regularity (to feed her week ego – see passage below). This occurs by her telling lies to my kids why she “had to” move, how I agreed to move and backed out, among other things. I don’t believe she regularly says blatantly bad things about me, I suspect her supporters who they spend time with do. But she continues to make herself appears as a victim to my alleged scheme.
I would like to recommend the book “Divorce Poison” authored by Dr. Richard A. Warshak. While not specific to sociopaths, it sheds a bright light upon the subtle and overt parental alienation that our ex’s perform, as well as the unconscious alienation we are guilty of and don’t realize it is occurring. I read the book some ago, but in just opening it this moment I found the following passage which I had previously highlighted, which I believe applies to these mothers who have no motherly instincts.
“Bad-mouthing parents act superior. But many actually feel inferior as parents. The put down the other parent in order to convince themselves, the children, and the world that they are the better parent and more deserving of love.
Such parents fail to appreciate that the bad-mouthing and bashing they use to bolster their image as parents accomplishes the exact opposite. It demonstrates, for all to see, a severe parental deficiency: the willingness to sacrifice their children’s needs in order to feed their week egos.”.
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ErinBrock says:
Quantum Solace:
I am curious…..
In my state a parent can not be required to pay for college.
(remember we are not talking moral obligations, we are talking legal). And child support ends at 18 unless still enrolled in HS.
IS your child 18?
It is not clear to me why this is an issue…..that he drags you into court for?
If the father doesnt want to support his son in college, scholarships should be looked into by you/son….or financial aid in your sons name.
I learned to reduce my expectations of the S, as to not expect any financial support…..(and Im shocked he pays his child support monthly, quite frankly) I would love to see him help his kids out for college….but I do NOT think it’s a reality of these S’s…..just another avenue for control. If they ‘give’ anything ‘willingly’ and not ordered…..there are for certain, strings attached.
If you can eliminate this avenue …..and find other alternatives…..then it would eliminate any future court dealings.
Unless I understand something wrong here.
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AKA Bob says:
Jake B. -
We all do it for awhile, we want answers, we seek truth, but the truth hurts us. As we gain deeper insight to the P/S (and LF educates us immensely), we learn it is not us, it is them. We are good, they are evil. They fool everyone, yet everyone is not a fool. They are so calculating, charming and convincing, judges, police, attorneys, clergy, therapists, and others, those educated in identifying these P/S’s are even fooled. Don’t take it as personal flaw, I certainly don’t, and your friends here don’t see you that way.
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Cat says:
Quantum,
I wish I could give you an exact date and heaven knows I asked God that plenty of times.
In my case, it wasn’t ME that changed the minds of those in the judicial system, it was he, himself. By the time he had added a few more things to his rap sheet, they were on to him and still are. Judges will change their minds on their own. The more you try to make anyone see what they are, the more frustrated you end up being. I learned that lesson a VERY hard way. And consider this; she’s only one person. She’s not that damned special. When he screws up, and he will, she will see HIM as the one who’s reckless. Can you suggest anther judge? That might help YOU feel more comfortable in the court room.
EB: I learned to adjust those expectations as well. Long ago, I went to court, established paternity and asked for NO child support. The mediator was shocked. I knew all the way back then that if something happened, he would never pay and he’s proven me right. I DID ask for medical coverage and got that. He didn’t follow that, so we’re off to court again, though he doesn’t know it.
As far as college goes, in my state it’s not something the courts order the parents to do. I have 3 older children with a wealthy dad and when he and I divorced (15 yrs ago), I had it put in writing that he would pay for 4 years of college for each child and he honored that. The spath will never do that.
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Quantum Solace says:
Cat:
I know, mine was a rhetorical question. I’ve never heard of asking for another assignment judge and getting it. Once you’re caught in the legal web, your life no longer belongs to you. As for this judge, I seriously doubt she’ll see anything. I’ve presented her with all the proof she needs to make a fair decision and she refuses to look at anything I offer. Of course, vicious as the other side is, they’ve already picked up on that and on the last hearing, they were making me out to be a thief too. And this after it was he who stole everything we had, including the children’s accounts. I learned a long time ago that there’s no one so blind as he who can’t see.
I have since hired a lawyer, it wasn’t easy and most certainly not cheap but the guy seems to have a grasp on the situation. Let’s hope that does’t change now that he’s got my money in his pocket. If nothing else, at least it will get that witch (with a B) of a judge off my ass and I won’t have to listen to her yelling at me anymore. That alone is worth something.
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ErinBrock says:
One thing we can’t do is fall into allowing anyone to dictate to us how we react.
We must undertand what courts expect, and direct the ‘flow’ of the courts by our behaviors.
If a judge is acting out of a professional manner, file a complaint.
We can ask for a new judge…..discuss this with your attorney.
I’m unclear how you can have the same judge after 13 years.
we need to remain in control of our situation at all times…..it’s part of the S’s ideal to portray us as the problem.
Once we are perceived as the problem, the outcomes are very frustrating and expensive.
We should concentrate on facts and facts only…..they focus on throwing up smokebombs….with no substance.
A judge is trained to filter facts from smoke.
Why is this judge ‘on your ass’? What are her ‘issues’ with you? Her claims etc…?
I think I may be totally unclear of a lot of things in your situation and I appologize for this.
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Quantum Solace says:
First, I haven’t had the same judge in 13 years. I’ve had different ones over the years. This is only my third time back since the divorce.
As for asking for a new judge, I never heard of that before. Really, it’s not as if litigants get to call the shots.
The P portraying me as the problem is not the issue here as he’s been doing that for 13 years and I’m well aware of his tactics and how to defuse them. For whatever the reason, this judge hates me, she did so since before I even entered the courtroom. In fact, it was her who labeled me as all those things (a liar, unreliable and reckless) on her own and the Psychos only took her lead and are making it worse now. As for her issues, well, I think she too is P and that’s why she identifies with the other side. And she’s on my ass for everything, anything and nothing at all. You name it. She’s just a bitch, that’s all.
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learnthelesson says:
Quantum -
Would finding a mothers rights group w/legal background in your area be helpful? Also — there must be transcripts available which will show bias or unfairness if the judge is without any merit referring to you as a liar, unreliable and reckless….at which point you can appeal her end decision should it not be in your favor. But again you need to have fairly solid proof that she began the hearing with negativity and bias toward you.
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bulletproof says:
EB
It sounds like a lifetime of education.
‘The facts and the facts only’ is courtroom language (as is perpetrator and victim) I appreciate the judge needs to filter facts from smoke. The P is made of smoke and illusion so there is never the sense of having ever nailed them so
You have to talk like this, and it’s invaluable expertise.
They must be held responsible and to pay the price for their crimes that can be proven so that justice is restored to the “victim”, children can be helped to understand what is wrong and what is right, to sort out the confusion and the longing to believe their parents are loving and kind when they clearly are not.
After doing this can we then get back to loving and sharing and belonging and the hundreds of things that make us happy and refuse to let the P’s of this world rob all of our precious energy? I don’t know that we can until a certain process is complete, part of this seems to be strengthening the ego so that we are not demolished by psychopathy but satisfied we have triumphed over it.
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Quantum Solace says:
We’re into this 3 months and 2 hearings now. She has refused to look at anything that I have provided as proof and has denied everything I have asked for. Granted his petition without me being served and refuses to vacate it. Yet, she won’t hear my petition. She refuses to look at what I submit, asks the P for his opinion and rules in his favor (you see the irony here of taking the ‘word’ of a pathological liar at face value, right?). It is sickening the way she treats him. If she asks a question and I give her an explanation, she has nothing but nasty remarks like “that was too much information” or “more information than I asked for” and demeaning stuff like that. She also yells at me something awful (although I’ve heard that others complain of the same thing). Essentially, when she called me all of those things was simply because she wouldn’t look at the paper work I provided, asked me a question, cut me halfway thru and inferred what she wanted to. She’s a real horror that one! She sounds like a lunatic with PMS and out of Prozac.
As for an appeal, yeah, sure, no doubt. Nothing that wouldn’t cost me $25,000 or so to do.
Back during the divorce, I exausted all resources and couldn’t find anyone to help. I was treated rather poorly everywhere I went until I gave up. If that was then, when I had no job and 2 little babies in my arms, what do you think I can find today when I’m an able-bodied person by all the extent of the imagination?
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learnthelesson says:
Quantum -
Talk about feeling defeated…just reading this makes me want to meet privately with the Judge to ask her about what it meant to her to take the oath of office!!!!! Simply control? and nothing else… Wow!
Anyway… there is a website that allows you to ask Judges questions…maybe you could get some good advice or tips or legal stuff here: copy and paste ALL of this into your URL -
http://www.justanswer.com/tags.....5QodSyPkdA
also…you could write the judge through your attorney or county clerk (affidavit)
and lastly, could you take the stand and have your lawyer ask questions that get you to tell your side of the story…
or maybe you need a new lawyer??
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Quantum Solace says:
It’s a bit more complicated than that. Everything in my life is more complicated than it needs to be.
I’ll check the website, thanks. Much appreciated, who know, I may learn something useful today. Ha!
I’ve been representing myself, something I have done well in the past but she’s pounding me so much that I just can’t take it anymore. So far, she’s put out 2 orders with 3 pages each in which she has denied everything. It’s so blatantly unfair because the proof is in front of her all along, all she has to do is look at the papers and see it but she keeps complaining that it’s “too much paper.” I know where this is going and it’s not going to be good, cheap or easy to get out of it so I’ve thrown in the towel and, after much looking, finally hired a lawyer. I think he understands me and my needs but we’ll see if that holds. In the past, they’ve made a U turn on me and left me high and dry. Anyway, one of the things I hope to get out of this is that he can make her see things differently. For some reason, she really hates me and is merciless. The lawyer will buffer me and by presenting things in a different way, maybe, she’ll see my side. That’s a long shot thou that hasn’t worked in the past. Judges stay consistent from beginning to end and whatever happens on the first hearing pretty much tells you what to expect.
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ErinBrock says:
In my county you are allowed one request of change (judge).
You certainly don’t get to choose your judge, but in the persuit of justice this is allowable for several reasons.
Your case goes back into the ‘kitty’ and your assigned another judge.
I would make this my first priority with my new attorney.
Even if the judge IS an S….you must educate yourself on the judge you will appear before…..research is key in this (just like knowing the ex)….google her/him and research their rulings on other cases. Talk to others whom have appeared infront of this judge. (keeping in mind all cases are different). If your county video tapes the proceedings, order several from this judges hearings and study them……
See what she is looking for, deals with, accepts and reacts to……AND COMPLY and MORPH your case/personality/presentation in the way SHE will hear it.
You must become the chameleon and present to the judge the way this JUDGE wants to be presented to….manner, personality, body language, tone, accent, WHATEVER.
It’s very time consuming…..but if you wish to be successful….it has to be this way….
My first choice is that you seek another judge…..file that first!!!
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Quantum Solace says:
I wasn’t aware that a litigant can request a chance of judge. I’ll check with my attorney on that. I’m truly hoping that the attorney can make the difference. She won’t have to deal with me anymore and I’ll be completely buffered. It really is difficult to ignore though, the deference with which she treats him and even the little sarcastic remarks and the way she outrights cuts me down and yells at me. Again, I’ve heard other people complain of the same but have heard others say also that she is fair. So, go figure!
I know that my attorney is crafting some things for me that no one ever tried before which gives me a lot of hope and a good feeling about him. The first thing he told me was, “we have to do some damage control” – I really liked that! Now, he’s also a criminal lawyer so, maybe, he’s approaching this from that angle. How fitting, huh? For the first time, he will be treated like the criminal he is. His lawyer though sucks but is so evil, so disgusting and such a poor excuse for a human being. They’re perfect for each other. Gawd! How can anybody not see right thru them?
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ErinBrock says:
I still vote for another judge!
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learnthelesson says:
Maybe some judges have something against self-representation????? Prior bad experiences, etc… who know….
Wouldnt that be GREAT if you could get a new judge!!! Good to know EB!!!
Meantime your new lawyer sounds like he’s on the ball and has a plan!!
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Quantum Solace says:
I wouldn’t mind that at all.
Although I hate to say this, I’ve found out that when dealing with female judges, there are some who feel they have to be extra hard on the women so as to show how very “fair” and “unbiased” they are. No, I guess, the don’t really realize that what they are doing is unfair and biased but, either way, we women are at a disadvantage most of the times. She could very well be this type, totally going his way to show how fair she is which would certainly explain things. She is also fairly new at this judging thing and may be going thru a period of adjustment in which she’s trying to be real tough before she finds some happy medium (hopefully).
I also know that male judges tend to favor male litigants over female too. There is plenty of research and articles on that out there. I had a male on the first round and he was an a***hole, just exactly like this one. I could’t win one with the guy for anything. The second time, I had an older female and she was unbelievably great. She saw right thru the monster on day one put him in his place many a time but he got himself two (not just one) lawyers to craft the lies for him which didn’t help him any. I ended up winning that round but now I’m back in the shithole again.
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ErinBrock says:
There is a judge in my county that has a notorious reputation for being poor on the bench.
Everyone said don’t get him…..you’ll be cooked….
I’ve heard it from male/female/attornies….etc….
Well…..heres the lesson….I’ve had contact with this judge to discuss Cluster B’s and how they are handled and identified from the bench…..
This guy has been the MOST receptive person I have held conversations with…..(not in the courtoom)……and given what he has experienced……and what My attorney has said about him…..was that if he wsa my assigned judge….I would have NOT balked.
I think he can recognize DV, recognize the destruction ans games and is willing to do continuing education on the subject of Cluster B’s…..
So…..in the courtroom…..there is 2 people….one will walk out upset…..so a judge has 50% chance of satisfying someone and 50% of pissing someone off…….
When we research the judges…..we need to keep thi sin mind and use our own educated filter to decide how this judge will be in OUR case. Not get caught up in the ‘drama’ of someone pissed off because it just ‘didn’t go their way’….
Fair is fair….on all sides of the coin….
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learnthelesson says:
such a shame that not only do we have to adjust how we act/react/behave with a S in the courtroom – but now we have to do the same with the judge in the courtroom.
Whats the point of a judge again? If a judge isnt aware of cluster B’s or how they operate — youre right back in the victims seat all over again….
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Quantum Solace says:
In my case, all 3 times, it has been all or nothing. Very loopsided. As for him not being happy, who gives a rat’s ass, really? The reality is that the guy is incapable of feeling any emotions so he probably doesn’t care either way. Except that when it goes his way, that validates his wrongdoing and empowers him only to do more of the same.
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LouiseGolem says:
Gosh, I got lucky, with a very compassionate judge.
Jake, welcome! We all have that weakness, believe me. You just confirmed that I’d better avoid Facebook a little longer. I took my page down when I came to realize that my S/P was having his daughter read my page for info he could use against me (Yeah, the child who is the ally – his daughter. She is one screwed up chiick.) I’d love to get my page active again, but I’m really afraid I’ll go look at his. And hers. I really want to have someone sitting there when I open my page again, so they can help me focus on the “Security” page first thing, where I’ll remove them both from my friend list and make it so only my friends can find me on a Facebook search. I can’t believe it, but I have to admit that I”m literally afraid of Facebook! And of what I might do if I go into it too soon!
Cat, thanks for your congrats on my Order. And wow, I’ve been getting those Anonymous phone calls – three in one week – haven’t gotten them since he was harrassing me this past August. I’m sure it’s him. I won’t answer.
Wish I could say more about this judge thing. It’s mind boggling. . . .good luck to all. . ..
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one_step_at_a_time says:
Jake – see, you are making good use of your fb experience already, by playing it forward!
I too had a pretty much blanket ‘caring and sharing’ edict. and yes, it was flawed.
Now, I have a bigger set of tools with which to relate to people: caring and sharing for those who prove to be trustworthy, and the concept of shutting out and walking away for those who do not. I have lots of practice to do in this life to learn to use the tools well and smoothly – but i have learned a lot in the first part of my life, and i can continue to learn in the 2nd part of my life.
It’s actually a gift Jake – this horrid eye opening experience of being spathed. And yes, my ability to trust is ruptured, but I am pretty sure I can heal that. I want to come out clearer and fiercer, more able to protect myself in the world and within myself (against the negativity I carry with me), and more able again, to protect others; able to love myself as never before and make myself my own top priority.
I have abandoned myself endlessly, in the name of spiritual principles and familial ‘love’; i can learn to stop this now. that horror show spath pierced my need for love so very deeply, that i can see that *I* am my only hope.
best,
one step
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ErinBrock says:
From my warped mind….
Jake wrote: “Louise DON’T LOOK!..please…..you don’t need to know what’s going on down in the toilet bowl!”
Once you shit….flush it down!!
You wouldn’t chase shit down to the sewer….would ya?
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Rosa says:
I have a tiny confession to make.
I am a FaceBook virgin. I’ve never been to FaceBook OR MySpace.
Am I missing out on something here?
What is the purpose of FaceBook??
My curiosity is now peaked.
If I need to socialize with someone, I either call them or e-mail them, so I don’t get the FaceBook thing.
But, then again, I’ve never been there.
I have a nerdy side…..and I think I just showed it.
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Rosa says:
Thank you, Henry. That’s all I really need to know.
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hens says:
ok Jake – here’s the deal.. you have a pattern of meeting loser’s and user’s, It’s time for you to dig into your childhood, your past and find out why. Your not an idiot. Stop focusing on them and focus on yourself…I recommend a book – Meaning from Madness – by Richard Skerritt…
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Rosa says:
Thank you, Jake.
My curiosity is no longer peaked regarding FaceBook.
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one_step_at_a_time says:
Jake – I’d also suggest the Betrayal Bond. Available in the love fraud bookstore. Good for digging in to the past.
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ErinBrock says:
Rosa:
Facebook was a very valuable tool I used to gain mucho info on the spath and his ‘dealings’…..
I was soooooo shocked at what I reconed there…..AND HE DIDN”T EVEN HAVE AN ACCOUNT!!!!!!!
I was a wonderful tool……for recon…..during the divorce….knowing when he was coming back to town……etc,.
BUT I WOULD NEVER EVER EVER EVER and FOREVER have a ‘real’ acount!
Even though I LOVED IT!!!!! HAHAHAHA.
Im with you if i can’t call ya or visit you….then ya don’t need to know anything about me….
The thing about here is we still have anonymity…..
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ErinBrock says:
Hens….
dang…you make me laugh……
I’m gonna go check my toilet….make sure ALL the plumbing is in order!
Jake…..thanks….gutsy is good I think…..well….I guess it depends on what side of the guts your on….haha!!!
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ErinBrock says:
If you could only hear me!!!!
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OxDrover says:
Dear Jake,
Welcome to LF, it is a healing place and Knowledge=power and I suggest you go back through the archives and read EVERY article (save the comments for later, just read the articles to start, there are hundreds of them!)
There are lots of “truths” we are taught in Sunday school and regular school, that are FALSE, “there are two (valid) sides to every story” or “it takes two to fight” or “there is good in everyone.”
There are many more of these UN-truths that many people subscribe to in our world.
First off, there ARE people who are EVIL. There are people who do bad things but are NOT unable to repent. There are people who have PATTERNS of abusive behavior that are INCAPABLE OF REPENTANCE. It is, unfortunately, not a SAFE world and just because you do GOOD doesn’t mean you won’t be “crucified.”
Look at the story of Jesus, and his battles with the Pharisees of his day, they were CROOKED “religious leaders and politicians”–He called them out on it (called them hypocrits) and said they were like whitewashed tombs, beautiful on the outside and inside full of rotting flesh. For this, these “holy” men got false witnesses to work up the crowd and get Jesus crucified. Those men had no “good down in them” because they had “hardened their hearts” and would not repent. They were willing to order Jesus put to death as a criminal because they didn’t like the TRUTH He spoke.
The Bible is filled with men who did some pretty nasty stuff, like King David, an adulterer and murderer, yet he was referred to as a “man after God’s own heart.” WHY? Because when he was chided for his bad behavior, HE REPENTED. He changed his ways. Good people sometimes do bad things, but they can and DO repent and change their ways. EVIL people do not, they enjoy the evil that they do.
Learn all you can about psychopathy, and learn all you can about what it is about yourself that allows these people to get close to you.
You don’t have to become UN-trusting, just cautious, trust should be EARNED not “given until proven untrustworthy”—it is a lesson that each of us I think needs to learn and take to our hearts, and how to WATCH for the “red flags” that signal a predator in human form. Glad you are here, stay around a while. Great people here. God Bless.
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Spirit40 says:
Rosa,
Facebook can be a great place to re connect with old childhood friends and also family members abroad. Personally from my experience it has been my connection to all of my cousins in other countries and great people I grew up with… my space on the other hand is blah……with facebook people can search for you but you decide whether you want to add them to your list of friends or family…….
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Rosa says:
Thank you, Erin & Spirit40.
I knew there had to be something useful about FaceBook, because it is so popular.
Everyone always talks about it, so it made me curious.
That’s all.
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LouiseGolem says:
For me, Facebook has been a wonderful tool – I lived and worked abroad for several years, and when I went on Facebook, suddenly all my friends in other countries were there for me again–and it was so great and so easy to be in touch with them.
Unfortunately, my S/P and his family and immediate circle of friends joined as soon as they saw my engagement in FB. At first, I thought it was fine, but I thought everything was fine. Then I started to realize what a freakish relationship I was in, and how, suddenly, his daughter in particular was taking great interest in topics that were near and dear to my heart and that she had never, for two years, even cared about. The further I pulled away from him, the more she was (I began to realize) drawing on details about me that she got out of the Facebook profile to keep me in their web.
It was all very upsetting!! And I started getting very concerned for all my friends, since I was beginning to understand what predators my S/P and his daughter could be. So I deactivated my profile. I really want to activate it again, but as Jake has pointed out, it’s very hard to keep from looking. For me, this all happened not too long ago, and it still hurts an awful lot. But I can’t let him rob me of my friends. He’s robbed me of so much else. . . .
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Cat says:
Louise, you are more than welcome and I’m so glad you have it. They really do prove to be useful. Those anonymous phone calls ANNOY me. I’m getting them more and more and I know it’s him as well. I found a button on my new phone system. It says, “Do not disturb.” Use it quite often these days! He would think nothing of calling at 11 at night to say goodnight to our son, who it 10. DUH.
Jake, Louise and EB, All of you make good points about FB. I made the choice to take my page down for awhile. I knew he was looking for stuff because my son told me. The upside of FB is that you can learn yourself. I use it at my discretion.
Welcome back Ox! You have been sorely missed on here, but I’m also glad you took a break and hope you had a wonderful time! I echo your sentiments to Jake on his question. Evil does exist and always has. As you well know, I’m somewhere in the healing process and learning to pick out those red flags. I am finding most of them come right from my own intuition. If something doesn’t FEEL right, it’s a read flag.
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LouiseGolem says:
Yeah, Cat, the trick with those Protection Orders, as my counselor says, is enforcing them. These obnoxious Anonymous calls make it hard for me to say he’s doing it (aka: enforce the Order.) But I can change my phone number, and I’m afraid I may need to do that.
Red flags — as you say, Cat “come right from my own intuition.” Like the night I woke up (towards the end) and my gut was just screaming SOOO loud. No one single reason, but I knew that my body was telling me to save myself.
Listen to that gut, my friends. I’ve said this before. But then again, I think I”m preaching to the choir here, when I say that.
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one_step_at_a_time says:
Louiseg – does your carrier have a function where you can block un named callers? or specific callers? might be cheaper than changing your number.
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OxDrover says:
I thinkk of all the advice to ask the questions here that BLUES SHOES has the most appropiate advice. To be with a “flat affect” (marginally polilte) and actr like you were exchanging answers with the queen of England. Don’t speak unless spoken to, then answer in 1-2 word replies and that in a bored or neutral voice.
Keep your posture straight, neither smile nor frown. If he wants to “make light conversation” tghere is always the old “Oh, I must go to the restroom,, or back to my car, or something” to get out of his face.
I agree about your mom letting him hug her….I think that is ann insult to you and I would see if I could get that stopped if I could do so without making a big row. I think her demeanor should mimic yours.
Don’t be the first one to make contact or start a conversation.
If you can keep it so that there are long silences by using shoulder shrugs for answers away when he is talkin to youk, so he is talking to the side or back of your head.
Not letting anything he says get you upset, or if you do get upset, do not let him know it. Just showinjg total disinteresst in him, or even interupting him by leaning over while he is talking to you and speak to someone else about a totally different subject.
Anything short of spitting in his face to make him feel unwelcome. If this happens in front of your kids and they ask “why don’t you like to talk to daddy” yhou might just reply “Well, daddy and I are not married any more and I find it uncomfortable to speak to him now.”
Good luck with it. I can only imagine how stressful it must be to co-parent with one of these jerks. (((hugs))))
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tryingtoheal says:
The police had to get rid of my sociopath for me, when I called them they said he was calling them every day to try for my arrest! He left vile and threatening messages everyday on my voicemail, demanding I see him. Since the police officer said he would stop him, I haven’t heard from him again. I’ve since found out he owes money to almost everyone in my locality. I looked after and kept him when he was ill in my home, and when I said I’d run out of money and didn’t believe him with his daily yells on his phone for people to bring him money, he threw a rage and I threw him out. Steve, your post about the sociopath as a practical joker describes him to a T, you write such amazingly descriptive posts about my ex S, its like you knew him personally! I can’t thank you all at lovefraud enough, I am so grateful, you helped me to make sense of it all when I was so angry at him – and at myself for being so gullible and I just hope I have learnt enough to recognise a sociopath in future, hopefully I’ll never see one again, I can only describe them as vermin. He exists on handouts whilst telling people he has $40 million dollars in a bank in the States! Tells people he was in the Military and umpteen other things to get pity, and all whilst being so charming. I fell for his accent too and his larger than life personality. He used to brag about what he could get away with and professed undying love for me, when really he was just so pathetic. I cringe and feel sorry for those he is continuing to dupe, how I wish I could tell them, tell them to run as far away from him as possible. I wonder why there aren’t programmes on TV warning people? I was so naive when I met him, I cringe when I think of it.
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