LETTERS TO LOVEFRAUD: How should I “be” around my ex?
In February 1999, my sociopathic ex-husband, James Montgomery, was finished with me. I had no more money, no more credit and no more earning capacity, because my business was ruined. So Montgomery arranged for me to find out that he’d had a child with another woman during our marriage. With this, I left, as I’m sure he expected.
Oh, he made a few attempts to reel me back in. “It’s not what you think,” he said. “Let me explain.” I didn’t. I kept driving.
I never saw him again. And now, after hearing so many of your stories about the sociopaths who won’t go away, I realize how lucky I was. I didn’t have a child with him. I didn’t have to attempt to co-parent with a sociopath, while the sociopath tried to turn the children against me.
My heart breaks for all of you in this unwinnable situation, stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Not long ago, I heard from a woman who is in this position. We’ll call her “Marsha.” Marsha was married for 16 years to a guy who she now knows is a sociopath. They’ve been divorced for two years. They have five kids—two teenagers, three younger. Her ex has regular visitation times when he’s supposed to pick up the kids, although he hasn’t shown up for his Saturday afternoon time in months.
Marsha sometimes sees her ex at events for the kids, which is uncomfortable for her. She writes:
The last one was particularly upsetting for me, as he came over to my mom and gave her a hug, asked her how she was, and appeared to be very moved to see her. I know it is all bs, but the cognitive dissonance it creates…
How should I “be” around my ex? Do I speak in a friendly tone, similar to the way he is speaking to me, do I keep everything monotone, do I try to avoid speaking to him altogether, or is there some other option?
I don’t know how to advise Marsha. So, Lovefraud readers, especially those of you who are coping with similar situations, what do you suggest?
written by Donna Andersen • Permalink •
Quantum Solace says:
How do I cope? I’m not around the psycho. Ever! Period.
In the particular case of the monster in my life, he uses every opportunity to benefit from it, to create drama and to manipulate the situation into something it is not. I have moved 1,000 miles away but recently found out that even that and 11 years after the divorce isn’t enough for this bastard.
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 1 February 2010 @ 8:23am
changedforever says:
It is very difficult to manage when there are kids involved, but I think she should say only “Hi” and “By” when around him and not try to play his hypocrite games. In my case I just stop the talking all together not even “hi” or “by”, but we have no kids and nothing to connect us anymore. They’re “chameleons” they work hard to hide their true persona, and look good. She just needs to be herself.
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 1 February 2010 @ 8:39am
blueshoes says:
I would recommend putting on a “mask” around your ex at all times in front of the kids–be courteous but slightly distant; do not discuss the children at all; limit conversation to a minimum. Do not frown or make a face; just have a neutral expression of slight smile if possible, for your kid’s sake.
As for how to act when your ex does a show of B.S. in front of your mom, children and/or friends? Well, in front of the children, follow the advice above. They will know the truth in their own way. But for now courtesy and distance is most prudent IMHO.
As for your mother, does your mother not know the history? Is she not your ally? If not, then she needs to be judiciously educated in what happened and why your ex is not to be trusted, hugged, or engaged with. Work on your mom, and once she has become more ally, ask her to treat your ex the same way you treat your ex. She should not allow him to kiss and/or hug her in any way. If he tries to coerce her or you into hugging….well, you both need to be prepared in a neutral way and make that impossible.
As for your close friends, follow the same advice as for your mom. They need to know enough about the situation to be your allies.
As for friends of friends and the wider community, it’s best to be distant and polite in front of this group. It is unrealistic for them to be your close allies, and best just to be a neutral as possible in a social setting. Good luck.
These principles have worked for me for 8 years. Even if I am angry I do not show it in public and I do not show it to my ex as it “feeds the beast.” I handle my anger with my ex by talking it out with my allies or with myself.
My child knows that her father is “not quite right” in some ways, but she is able to have a relationship with him that is at least superficially rewarding for her. When he tries to put her in the middle of a fight by canceling appointments, threatening to move, I shift into neutral and tell him to go ahead and cancel, or go ahead and move, it’s fine. It never outwardly bothers me when he cancels. Sometimes I’m steamed, but I blow off the steam on my own.
Over time I feel my time with my child has become mroe and more precious and I truly don’t care any more whether my ex cancels as he often does. It is a small price to pay for more time with my child
Maybe I’ve been fortunate, but I also know that by avoiding any verbal fights with my ex in recent years it has helped me to move on emotionally and has forced him to look for others to tangle with. Anyway, I hope this is helpful.
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 1 February 2010 @ 9:27am
nassaugirl says:
I think this is an extremely important question, because it could mean the difference between REALLY being able to let go and being manipulated for the rest of your life!
I was fortunate. MUCH TO HIS DISPAIR, I couldn’t have any more kids when he met, and even though we lived together we never got married. So when I threw him out there were no significant ties left to bind us together.
Needless to say, he tried to find every reason to keep us connected. We were working on a project together for my job, so I couldn’t get out of that, but what I did IMMEDIATELY was speak with my boss and our partners, warn them about the type of person he was, and insisted that they would have to be his contacts until the project was over. I also fixed it so that he could no longer contact me. He was livid, but since he wanted to finish the project and get paid, he had no chocie.
I was tempted on a few occassions to respond to a few attempts by him to connect, (after he read my book at http://www.liarcheater.com but I was able to resist without slipping up, not even once, and that pretty much forced him to go away completely.
Because these monsters are so manipulative, I would suggest that you be as neutral as you can with them. Keep in mind that EVERYTHING about him/her is a lie. Be suspicious of EVERYTHING they say. Don’ fall for ANY of it! If you have kids together, you would have to communicate at some point, but do not engage in any long conversations. Be direct and to the point, and do not let on that you are moved by anything he tells you.
For those of you who believe in the power of prayer, I’d also suggest that you ask God to help you discern the difference between a lie and the truth, not just with your ex but with people you come in contact every day. Trust me, it works!! After I started to pray, every lie he ever told me was revealed!
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 2 February 2010 @ 6:59am
duped says:
I have two sons, the youngest (4) with my ex sociopath. For most of the past three years, I tried to be myself…kind, pleasant, friendly. And, for most of the past three years, I’ve had trouble letting go of the PTSD and frequently found myself angry with myself as I felt I kept setting myself up for more manipulation. Or, even worse, that he was using my good character to allow him to manipulate our son’s perceptions of him and our relationship.
For the past three months, I have not spoke with him directly. My very large (6′, 230lb) 16 year old son answers the door to receive his brother and doesn’t allow the S into our home. He believes the S uses his little brother to gain access to me, so it was his idea for him to field the exchanges. He’s grown quite protective and has a knack for seeing his ex-step-father for what he is.
Since I have stopped speaking with the S directly, all necessary correspondence takes place via email or text, I have felt much more calm and safe. However, my S hasn’t appreciated the change and has managed to create a scenario in which not speaking to him is not an option. He has put our son in physical danger by leaving him in the car unattended, attempted to manipulate me by sending me falsified drug tests (he’s been ordered to monthly, random, tests but the court doesn’t follow up) and showing our son violent PG-13 movies, the most recent of which the move 9; hich I discovered when my recently turned 4 son had some interesting perceptions and questions to share about death.
Since none of the above is acceptable but engaging him directly would only reinforce his control of the situation and desired outcome, I opted to get my attorney involved. So, off we go to court, again! I’ll keep you posted.
All this being said, with a Sociopath, always expect to give up something to gain something. It’s up to you, and certainly what you think will have the best outcome for your kids, that determines the optimal approach to take when dealing with the S. There is no ideal way to deal with Sociopaths as it pertains to kids. Just be sure to do as little as possible in their favor, while still maintaining what you need to for yourself and your kids.
Good luck! It’s a hard balance to find and maintain.
Namaste,
Duped
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 2 February 2010 @ 7:52am
AKA Bob says:
I have three children with my ex-P. She was fully aware of my love for and dedication to my children and that I would do anything to keep them out of our differences. I even took a licking financially in our divorce to avoid a hearing and keep the kids out of it.
During our separation and for a short while post-divorce she’d convince me to do things I didn’t wish to do, “for the sake of the children”, such has hugging her goodbye when we said goodbye in front of the children. The manipulation technique of “for the sake of the children” was always used to keep me hooked in, and she still attempts this. When I broke free it entailed strongly establishing and enforcing personal boundaries. These people do not recognize nor respect any types of boundaries. She didn’t like this, and to this day still doesn’t.
She moved far away for a man, sought custody and lost to the extent that my children live primarily with me (still joint custody) and she has very liberal visitation, flying in to see the children or them flying to see her almost twice monthly on average, and they spend summers with her. So, she continues to be very much involved, but not so much with regards to doing the daily grind of homework, shuttling to sports and activities, disciplining, etc. My wife and I do all the real work. She is truly the Disneyland Mom, extremely overindulgent and not enforcing rules or discipline. They lay around all summer at her home with custom pool, playhouse and sport court, playing videogames and eating anything they wish from the kitchen all day long. No rules, little supervision. This creates huge issues and conflict when the children are returned to me and my wife.
She has convinced everyone, except those who know better, that I am angry and hostile and didn’t agree to move with her because I don’t wish to be controlled by her. Duh!!! Maybe I was just tired of moving for her career, we are now divorced so why would I move again? Why is that so bad when dealing with a manipulative, sociopathic ex? Those of us involved with P’s need a clean break and have the right to demand it.
Since we have kids, we have to interact. I try to keep communication limited to written emails and text and document everything. She plays games continuously when it comes to the kids’ exchange times, dates and place and kids’ financial issues. I stay in the house when she picks up and drops off the kids, NO CONTACT. However, being that she visits frequently, we cross paths at sporting and other events. I will acknowledge her and allow interaction limited to children’s issues, schedules, etc. that are pertinent while she is in town and with the kids. But, I will not engage in “conversation”. That’s the set up, to manipulate and get you to commit to something you are not comfortable with, because they know they can manipulate us if given the opportunity. My line… “I’ll think about it and get back to you”, then follow up in writing. Still, best bet is not to converse.
She puts on a huge act of charm, affection when anyone sees her with the children. Again, over the top and an act for others to see. It is all about appearances for these P’s, keeping the façade up.
Advice – except when he is present, all communication in writing. When he is present, keep a game face on, don’t look angry or perturbed, they feed on that. Ignore as much as possible, and limit any dialogue. Otherwise, stick to the No Contact rule.
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 2 February 2010 @ 9:40am
Quantum Solace says:
Duped:
I just read your post and your situation sounds just like mine. I’ve had to go a step further and actually stop contact with my own children. I have one with me now but there’s no contact with the other one. Still, he manages to manipulate the situation to death. We’re back in court for the third time. Lawyers and all, it’s not looking any better than the first time. BTW, giving up stuff has got me into more of a mess. Seems like the more I give, the more he wants. In my particular case, I’ve always found it better to corner him, only when his back is against the wall, does he seem amenable to negotiate.
Will the torture ever end?
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 2 February 2010 @ 10:27am
Cat says:
Duped, I totally agree with the following statement that you made.
“All this being said, with a Sociopath, always expect to give up something to gain something.” They always have to have something. Lately, I’m in a ZERO TOLERANCE zone when it comes to negotiating, though. I like it here; think maybe I’ll stay here for awhile.
The ONLY conversation I have with my ex is, when only absolutely necessary, by text when it concerns our son.
I learned the hard way, after he first left, that if I let my anger, irritation or anything close to those show, he got off on that. NOPE, I said to myself, that’s just more power for him.
I changed that to a complete monotone voice. Now, it’s down to just texts and even those have faded lately because my son is coming out and saying he just doesn’t want to spend time with his dad. This is his safety zone and the more comfortable he is here, the less he wants to be around him. He’s also coming out with some things I never knew before; when he was just 4(can’t believe he remembers this so clearly!), his father took him to a drug house and LEFT HIM ALONE for several minutes while he went in to get his stuff. He also had a habit of watching porno and my son saw this on more than one occasion. He would always flip the channel, but who would have that on with a child in the house in the first place? Idiot.
I am now going to go for supervised visitation because I know him and he will push for visitation. Well, won’t he be surprised!!!
AKABob, Mine pulled the same thing for a long time. Insisting on hugging me in front of our son, trying to get me to do just about anything “for the sake of our son”. It was his favorite game; his way to get what he wanted. You’re right, it’s just a game. As long as WE know that, they can’t play it!
Quantum,
It will end, honey. Promise! I had some bad days and wondered the same thing, but I truly believe what we deal with today will help us heal tomorrow(Thank you, Kathleen!)
Good topic! Hugs to all!
Cat
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 2 February 2010 @ 12:47pm
AKA Bob says:
I try not to “give” at all. I have it in my mind that if I concede on something, I’ll get something in return. Sometimes you just have to to get something you really want or need in return. The reality is nothing changes. Giving in to something just opens the door, you give an inch and they’ll keep taking. Try not to set precedents, they’ll use precedents over and over. My wife reminds me all the time, don’t be nice, don’t give, she’ll just take advantage and you’ll get nothing in return (unless they benefit).
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 2 February 2010 @ 12:55pm
duped says:
When I stated you must give to get, I’m not suggesting negotiations with a Sociopath. You’ll NEVER win. The thing is, they’ll settle for nothing less then you giving up something, directly or most likely indirectly.
The point being, if you confront, you WILL give up some inner peace…the degree of which depends upon you and the tactic they use to upset you. Unfortunately, when they have contact with the children, they have access to mess with that which you cherish most.
I agree with AKA Bob’s advice – “except when he is present, all communication in writing. When he is present, keep a game face on, don’t look angry or perturbed, they feed on that. Ignore as much as possible, and limit any dialogue. Otherwise, stick to the No Contact rule. ”
If you can get away with THAT much without some form of aggressive or passive aggressive counter from your S, consider yourself fortunate!
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 2 February 2010 @ 12:57pm
jofary says:
I have one older child from my first marriage to a S and two younger children from my second marriage to, yes, another S (I was a slow learner). Both these S’s formed an alliance shortly after my second marriage breakdown in an attempt to “break” me so I know all about how difficult it is to conduct oneself in the face of manipulation, button-pushing and outright lies.
The S’s I had to deal with used every single nuance, frown, sharp word, etc.that I gave them to their advantage in their attempt to remove our children from my care (they hate paying their court-ordered child support but prior to that they gave a rat’s ass about the children, their visitation with them or their well-being). When I finally learned to be as neutral and unemotional as possible, they outright lied about me doing/saying things I hadn’t and use each others testimony as “proof” that I’d done as they said.
I learned this the hard way that every defense I gave my ex-S’s was a tool they would use to sharpen their lies and fill in the “gaps” of their story for the judge. Ultimately, it didn’t work for them to take the children away but they do have generous access (even the second one, who sexually assaulted our toddler daughter). But that was simply because their history had been to neglect the children up until they were court-ordered to pay child support. It was fairly obvious what the underlying motivation for their court action against me was so in that way, I was extremely lucky.
In a nutshell: If you are not a poker player, I strongly suggest you learn how to be one now.
Give away NOTHING about your emotional state. Be neutral, no matter what.
Give away NOTHING about your finances, your personal life, your work, etc. No small talk.
Accept and come to peace with the fact that virtually nobody else understands the ex-S like you do and you will probably never be able to fully convince everybody (including family members) to shun him the way you have.
Remind yourself when you do have to make contact with your ex-S that ANY information you share with him about you is a tool he will use AGAINST you, if he can.
No Contact is not an option when you co-parent with a S, so the next best thing is REDUCED Contact. Have a third party at exchanges to protect yourself from the inevitable slander and/or manipulations, communicate ONLY what you need to through e-mail (not phone or personal meetings) and do not respond to anything at all of a personal nature.
The ex-S considers your children “tools.” He will encourage your children to talk about you and use the information to his advantage to 1) get a reaction from you and 2) use his knowledge to “poison” your children against you.
Do NOT react emotionally in front of your children. This is exactly the response your ex-S is hoping for when your children report back to him. And he will use that emotional reaction to further “justify” his poisoning of you to them (and anyone else).
If you don’t react emotionally, he’ll probably lie anyway (like my ex-S’s did) BUT the lies will become incongruent with reality and your children will eventually clue in that what their father says about you just doesn’t make sense. It will take time and patience on your part to get there, though, and faith in your children that they will eventually understand.
My last piece of advice? TEACH your children to recognize Sociopathy/NPD. You don’t have to use your ex-S as a direct example (and it’s probably better not to otherwise it will look like you’re the one doing the poisoning) but when the opportunity presents itself (ie – a lie they’ve been told by their father about you), calmly and rationally explain it isn’t true and ask them why they think their father would lie about you. Get them to think critically. The only way our world is ever going to get better is when more people recognize and understand (if that’s even possible with these creatures) Sociopathy/NPD. Give your children the TOOLS they need to protect themselves from these predators in the future because I can GUARANTEE he’s training them to accept that kind of behaviour (otherwise he’d be “outed”).
I hope this helps you!
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 2 February 2010 @ 1:13pm
jofary says:
AKA Bob: I didn’t see your last post.
You’re BANG ON! That is a major difficulty in dealing with these critters as a co-parent – they don’t respond to the normal social rules of give-and-take.
As a parent, it’s horribly difficult to work around this because being ultra-rigid and not giving an inch (because they’ll take a mile and then some) comes across like you’re the one with the problem, not the S.
As a parent dealing with a S, though, it’s mandatory and well worth the risk of looking like a hard-ass rather than giving up that all-important source of Supply they’re looking for.
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 2 February 2010 @ 1:21pm
robxsykobabe says:
Hi everyone:
Ive been thinking…AGAIN
…about the day our NC began. This was precipitated by a demand that I apologize to my ex for ‘offending’ him after he ‘just realized’ I had accused him of stealing from me. These demands went on for about 3 days and with each phone call where I refused to apologize he got increasingly angry and upped his ante from ‘you’ve hurt my feelings and I want an apology’ to “are you ready to apologize to me yet’ to ‘im gonna assume youre not ready to apologize to me and that we are not talking’.
On the 3rd day of his badgering over what I KNOW happened, and after I didnt call him all that day because I couldnt take it any longer, he left me a message. I had deleted his mother from a facebook account as a friend because I knew he was ‘creeping’ on my page through his moms account. His message was pitiful sounding…as if he were really ‘hurt’ over my insensativity and insinuations that HE would STEAL from ME! He left the message saying ‘Im gonna assume we are not talking because you’re not ready to apologize and you’ve deleted my mom as a friend from facebook. When you’re ready to apologize, Ill be here but until then I guess we wont talk’. We havent.
Heres my question…he has made NO attempts at contacting me for ANYTHING. It will be 3 months tomorrow of NC with him. I have a ‘feeling’ he will be contacting me…I dont know why, I just do. After reading more and more and more, I dont really know what to think though. Again, his belongings are here still as I certainly havent contacted him, however, it just seems strange to me.
I feel a little paranoid over this. When we broke up in June, on HIS terms, he wrote poems daily and sent them to me telling me how miserable his was. I DONT WANT HIM BACK…let me make this clear…I just feel anxiety over why he hasn’t made contact…like this is ANOTHER game…but cant really be a game cause we arent talking? Does this make any sense!!!
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 2 February 2010 @ 1:21pm
AKA Bob says:
Jofary – you hit on something I didn’t mention – that I come across as the one with the problem. This happened recently when I unfortunately agreed to meet with the ex’s most staunch supporter. He kept pushing and pushing to know why I am so rigid with pick up/drop off routines. I couldn’t say “because she is a sociopath” because that would feed into their idiology that I am angry and hostile, plus they just don’t get it. We just continue to keep our heads down and remain rigid about boundaries.
I made the mistake of telling him “she needs to be kept within fences”. He responded, “Aha, you just don’t want to be controlled”. Righto, I don’t!
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 2 February 2010 @ 1:32pm
Twice Betrayed says:
How I dealt with my first PX-I let him out of the child support if he would just go away. Which he did…for the $$.
Second PX: We have an adult daughter together…when I was no longer in the pic…his true personality took over and eventually he made our daughter so angry that she ditched him too. At some point he will surface again but they cannot maintain a relationship when you are no longer in the pic to pick up pieces.
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 2 February 2010 @ 1:34pm
ErinBrock says:
Robxsykobabe:
GIRL…..get rid of his things….every last sock, every last item….PERIOD!
Then….you won’t worry anymore. Packem up and take them to moms house.
OR….you could send him a notice of abandoned possesions 14 day disposal…..
But, If you take them to his mothers, neatly packed up….then YOUR done.
He’s left them there for future contact….you know this.
And he’s keeping himself in your mind by ’shaking it up’ and not doing what is characteristic by claiming them earlier.
SO…….it’s working isn’t it!
If your done, your done….do the ceremonial cleansing of his shit out of your ‘area’ and get rid of him completely.
Don’t rip up his stuff, don’t stain it with spilled ink ‘accidentally’, don’t ‘forget’ an item…….just give it back to him……
I remember packing up the S’s shit….the kids were riffeling through it like it was a damn garage sale…..I want this, I want that……I said NO firmly….This is NOT ours to take……I wouldn’t let them keep anything….not a shoelace…NOTHING….
But he was shocked…..I set it out on the porch prior to my hospitalization becasue I knew he would come over knowing I was gone and rifle through….so I did it for him…..
Take your shit and get the fuck away!
Since the divorce…..he was awarded a jet ski and cookbooks and a set of G. clubs…..divorce was mid may…..he’s NEVER attempted to make contact to get what he so diligently fought for in court…..you’d think he would of come by right away to claim them…..he didn’t……it was his LAST tie to me…..
So I severed that by sending a ’shit or get off the pot’ letter…..of abandoned property…..never heard back and transfered title after that. Poof……ya waited too long fucker….take me back to court! There isn’t a judge on the planet that would think storing his shit for 8 months wasn’t reasonable…..
I wanted the jet ski……the rest i could care less…..but I needed to ’sever’ the ability for him to ‘come back’ and think he had a reason.
So …….get rid of his shit…..and do it soon.
You’ll eliminate any connection to him and you will feel much better for it!
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 2 February 2010 @ 1:38pm
robxsykobabe says:
ErinBrock:
AHHHHHH HA HA! Thanks for the pep talk! My post I think sounded a bit like I was ‘waiting’ for ‘the call’…Im not. I just need to know if this IS, in fact, another tactic to keep me off balance. And, according to your post (which had me rolling by the way)…IT IS! So, again, Im not crazy! There was never an option to bring them to him…for gods sake…hell no!
Im thinking this cause he will be getting his license back in March…or POSSIBLY in March. It dawned on me the other day that he just may be keeping quiet because he has NO ONE to drive him to my house…except for mommy and daddy and even HE doesnt have the balls to ask them AGAIN to drive him to my house to get his shit. Maybe he is waiting until he gets the license so he can do this on his own…BUT…it will be too late cause his shit will be making ME money when I take it to Platos Closet!
Yes, another ‘tie’ to me…an ‘excuse’…god is he sick…reallllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllyyyyyyyyy sick…
Thanks so much!
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 2 February 2010 @ 1:53pm
Trista says:
I’m nearly getting my divorce now and I can’t wait for that day! I still see S , in and out of the house, some days with a sour face, other days trying to please, I keep myself to myself, he sends texts to tell me he will be out having lunch with his friends, I take no notice of anything he does. His strange behavior still continues and I try not to think of it and of anything else related to him. Soon I’ll be moving to South America and my son is already there.
I realized that I cannot change him, hope for anything, cling to the past, have a normal present with him, so he is complete OFF grounds for me. It is a bit like if he had died. I have a vague feeling that I was married to him in a distant past, but it does not affect me. I never discuss anything with him, I’m on my own.I never ask any favour,I never expect anything from him, I behave politely and cold. My day to day does not includes him or anything to do with him. It took me two years of pain and tears to get to this point, but I did. A sociopath does not change.
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 2 February 2010 @ 2:16pm
ErinBrock says:
The question: how should I ‘be’ around the ex s.
My answer…..exactly how is described above…..good going guys!
Never let him ‘in’ on your feelings……verbally or through emotions…..facial expressions or otherwise.
We need to appear strong…..wherever you pull it from….DO IT!
We need to appear in control and on top of ourselves.
NEVER engage in them….NEVER.
Because WE are in control.
WE MAKE THE DECISIONS.
Appear Happy and settled…..this takes work.
Never let them see you sweat….
If you can’t control yourself, remove yourself.
Walk with confidence and keep your head held high.
Fake it till you make it!
WE need to do whatever it is to give them the signal that WE are in control of US and THEY can’t trigger us, provoke us or engage us in their game of power over us.
WE all must have varied degrees of ‘contact’ with the S at times…..some none, some court contact only, some have children to parent, some have to wrap up posession exchanges, financial dealings etc….
We must set the tone, the pace and the direction of the ‘contact’ that allows us to be comfortable….
If we feel ourselves slipping, then pull away and reconsider the direction your going and how your proceeding.
We do not EVER have to engage in their games again…..we did it for too long already…..so WE CAN SET THE RULES NOW!!!
It’s called boundaries!
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 2 February 2010 @ 2:17pm
ErinBrock says:
RobsX:
Are you KIDDING me? NO one will bring him to get his shit….yeah….I don’t believe that for a second…..
He’s thinking door #2….access to YOU!
If you wanted something bad enough…..you get it!
He’d of asked someone……
He’s waiting to do it himself, so he can have alone time with you….
NIX that idea!
It would be worth it to drag it all over to mom and pops so he has to face them!
But….make sure you take photos of all his shit….just to document that if he sues you…..the emarald city jewels were NOT part of his things…..
My tenent stated in court, when he sued me, that he had all designer shit….european shit and it was valued at like 50K…..
Unfortunately, he forgot he had left all the receipts with the shit…..all from Ross, ebay etc…..
Yeah, right…..the sheriffs and I joked he would come back at me and say he had the malteese diamonds that I must have stolen.
Just cut him off from any potential avenue he may travel on.
Glad you had a laugh…..we gotta see the humor in anything these days!!!!
Start packen girl!!!!!
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 2 February 2010 @ 2:28pm
learnthelesson says:
Erin B – Right on!
And its so true that it depends on the situation. If your ex is coming to your childs school and sports events and even going up to your mom and hugging her hello – you can always just busy yourself on the sidelines. If it is your goal to be cordial around your children because things have calmed down a bit – then I suggest doing to the S a bit of mimicking – he says hello — you say hello and then take a phone call, or find another parent to chat with — simply busy yourself and get through the event. You owe him nothing. Again – just set whatever boundaries you would like to have in place for your well being and that of your children.
If the situation calls for ZERO interaction because of unresolved issues, court hearings, total disrespect for you and your family members – treat them like Oxy says “as a potted plant in the room”….
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 2 February 2010 @ 2:31pm
hens says:
very good post miss erin .. good for me that I am one of those that does not have to have contact in anyway..but if i do come across him somewhere sometime I will not give him the chance to engage me in eye contact or a chance to speak to me because it wont be pretty if I do…still have my paint ball gun ready just in case he comes a knockin tho…
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 2 February 2010 @ 2:32pm
robxsykobabe says:
Yeah…ErinBrock:
Alone time with me…uh huh! At one point after we had broken up in June he sent me pictures of us on our second trip when things were still ‘good’ and said…’do you think we can get back to this baby…to the love we had our first year together?”
It almost made me sick cause I thought to myself “I DIDNT FUCK SHIT UP!” And he’s right…our first year and a half were very nice…and then he ‘met up’ with his ‘ex’ during a time he was pissed at me…and it went ALL DOWNHILL from that point on…
He tried asking ME if, in essence, I could change myself back to when we were dating in the beginning…you know, to the time when I believed what he said to me and he could do no wrong in my eyes. Unfortunately for him, I got ‘on’ to his game and the shit…and yes, I was different!
What a f*&%tard!
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 2 February 2010 @ 2:44pm
robxsykobabe says:
And by the way…my internet name has NOTHING to do with beign someones “ex”…
It means aerobics pycho babe…robxsykobabe!
Dont want anyone to think Im bragging about him…TRUST ME!
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 2 February 2010 @ 2:45pm
ErinBrock says:
ROTFLMAO…..ROxsykobabe…….
I totally thought you were robs X pyscho babe….
My interpretation of your name….
Rob=the ex
X=x
sykobabe=what he used to call you…..psycho babe.
I’m cracking up….and I”M SO GLAD you clarified this for me!!!!
NEVER would I have gotten the aerobics connection…..
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 2 February 2010 @ 2:54pm
ErinBrock says:
Hens….
Was that purple and green to go with his black truck?
And BTW….I love the MISS part……I felt my whole life…I was mrs…..so MISS is a real honor!!!
THANKS!
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 2 February 2010 @ 2:56pm
ErinBrock says:
We talk about the ‘eyes’
Check out this clown……OMG…the eyes just pop right out atcha!
http://www.rgj.com/article/201...../100202026
This is my ‘thing’ lately….the eyes….even the kids say….OMG…mom did you see his eyes….I notice everyones eyes now.
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 2 February 2010 @ 3:04pm
robxsykobabe says:
ErinBrock:
NO, no…Im a group fitness instructor, a therapist and, well, a BABE! AHhhhhhhh ha ha ha ha!
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 2 February 2010 @ 3:29pm
ErinBrock says:
YOU GO GIRL!!!
I’m still laughing though…….
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 2 February 2010 @ 3:49pm
Rosa says:
Oprah is interviewing the children of Wanda Barzee on today’s show.
Wanda Barzee and Brian David Mitchell are the ones who kidnapped Elizabeth Smart.
Speaking of creepy eyes, those two definitely have “psychopath eyes”.
Once again, the words “mental illness”, “monster”, & “master manipulator” were used, but not the word “psychopath”.
And, as far as I am concerned, these two are textbook psychopaths. The worst of the worst.
It’s scary because apparently Wanda Barzee is in a mental hospital getting “help” for her mental illness.
It’s truly a miracle that these kids turned out OK, because their accounts of childhood abuse are horrific.
They said they wanted to appear on Oprah, because the media mis-characterized their mother as a victim of Brian David Mitchell’s abuse.
They said that she is no victim.
Instead, they claim that she is a monster in her own right, and they wanted everyone to know it.
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 2 February 2010 @ 5:49pm
LouiseGolem says:
Hi Guys & Gals
Haven’t been here for awhile. I saw the ex in court over a week ago now, to get the Protection Order permanent, and boy, what a shock. I hadn’t seen him for awhile, and I was convinced he’d come in calm and suave and cool. But he was just bouncing off the wall, very inappropriate and (as the court’s advocate said) “unstable.” And he lied right there, in front of the judge. It was the first time ever that I knew for certain he was lying.
So, it’s been NC, and I’m like Donna – never had kids with him, never even married him or lived with him. So there’s a chance that, if he doesn’t lose it completely and coming after me (and I have a niggling fear that he could do that, especially since he threatened to, more than once. But that may have just been a fear game, to maintain control) I may never see him again.
Have strangely mixed feelings about never seeing him again.
Like you Robxsykobabe, our first year and a half or so (especially the year after the first 1/2 year) was very, very nice. I was crazy in love, and I believed he was, too. Then it started to get freaky. Won’t go into details; they just got too weird. (I talk about them elsewhere here, too.)
I didn’t see him for over a month before our little meetiing in court. My lawyer and the court’s advocate were dynamite. They knew I couldn’t SEE him, couldn’t look him in the eyes (oh, yeah, those eyes!) They knew I was way too raw still and couldn’t be alone with him. They just protected me like crazy. They knew I couldn’t show weakness or emotion, because that was what he was looking for. I think the blank slate that I ended up being may have been what made him nutty. He discovered he had no control, and the judge (another woman) really re-enforced that when she told him that if he demanded a hearing, it might result in her requesting that he go to Mental Health Counseling. He backed down then. So yes, I got a two year complete stay away order.
I meet women in my support group who married the guy, who had kids with him. As one of my group-mates says: “Don’t say anything bad about him. Just let your kids see their father. (or mother, or whatever the case may be) Let them know that they can always come back to you, too, and find love and non-judgemental support. They’ll figure out soon enough how awful he is, if they don’t know already. Then they’ll figure out their own ways of dealing with it.” It’s a bitter methodology, but it maintains some dignity, I think. For everyone. But it also takes superhuman strength.
My prayers go out to everyone who has to be superhuman, every day.
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 2 February 2010 @ 6:58pm
ErinBrock says:
LouiseG:
Congratulations on attaining the 2 year order.
NOW….Please be vigilant the next few months……
THis is a dangerous time, and you need to pay attention.
Live your life, but be vigilant while you go ‘back’ to normal.
It may be a new ‘normal’ now……which isn’t always a bad thing…..we learn how to protect ourselves and be aware of our surroundings……
If anything ever looks ‘out of place’ or feels odd….trust your gut and don’t deny it….call the police.
I believe most of these perps….(key word MOST) will get the picture….that your going to follow through and report….and find another ‘victim’ that will tolerate the abuse/threats and move on…
I’m pleased you followed through….this was the second step in showing the world ……you mean business!
Good job louise…..NOW…..stay safe darlen.
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 2 February 2010 @ 7:15pm
LouiseGolem says:
Thanks so much, ErinBrock–yes, you are SO right about learning to protect ourselves. I’ve been working so hard at observing the world around me. Like he did – he was such a predator – I know now why he always wore dark sunglasses, and why he always scoped the room the way he did, whenever he entered a new place. He KNOWS how to observe every little detail. It’s not second nature to him; it’s first nature. And he can see folks who don’t look at all the details. Those people become his victims.
I intend to take no victims. Just keep myself safe. You, too, Erin — thanks for the kind words!
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 2 February 2010 @ 7:41pm
ErinBrock says:
OMG….the dark sunglasses….YIKES!
I remember after 911, traveling to Hawaii with the S and our kids….he kept his sunglasses on the whole time….in airport/and airplane, through security…..being asked to remove them and him pitching a fit…..
But I remember feeling stress of the reality of him being pulled aside by security because he looked suspicious….
I’d ask him to take them off…(mistake)…..and he’d say….why is it against the law to wear sunglasses now???
I thought it was so weird.
It was different than keeping mine on at times to people watch outfits and the way people interacted…..
He also kept the dark sunglasses on in grocery stores, shops, and restaurants and even at night time…..WEIRD!
He was ‘hiding’ something….this was a big red flag….looking back!
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 2 February 2010 @ 7:54pm
Rosa says:
The “dark sunglasses” look was originated in 1984 by the delicious Canadian singer, Corey Hart, who sang the one-hit wonder, “Sunglasses at Night”.
Judging from these lyrics (don’t you love 80’s lyrics?), I think my Corey Hart was involved with a psychopathic female at some point.
http://www.metrolyrics.com/sun.....-hart.html
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 2 February 2010 @ 8:31pm
LouiseGolem says:
I wear my sunglasses at night, so i can, so i can watch you weave your stories (?) or something like that. I took to humming that to myself when the sunglasses came out. When I went to court, I wanted to wear dark sunglasses, just to show him that he taught me well. But I didn”t.
I lived abroad for awhile, and one of our the trips I took with my S was to my “other” country. He got nailed every time he went through security! I should have paid closer attention to why they kept stopping him.
Yeah, BIG red flag. I know that now. The sunglasses that hide the eyes, and that hide the fact that he’s checking out every chick that walks through his line of vision.
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 2 February 2010 @ 9:55pm
geminigirl says:
You want to know why spaths wear dark glasses, even on dull days? Its to hide the fact they have no soul. The eyes are the mirror of the soul, and they dont have one.
Love, Gem.
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 2 February 2010 @ 9:57pm
duped says:
Eyes…no sh!t…funny thing is…when I met my ex S he wore glasses. I liked his glasses…thought he looked better with them on. Of course, when they were off he looked odd, which I chalked up to not being able to see, naturally. THEN he got Lasix and he instantly didn’t look right to me. By THEN, I was already hooked and, while I back paddled, he already knew just how to play me. Six months later I was pregnant and INSTANTLY all hell broke loose.
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 2 February 2010 @ 10:21pm
ErinBrock says:
Rosa:
I watched the Oprah show today….with the ‘Barzee’ kids….
What stood out for me was how obvious it was the rif between the one daughter/ the favorite and the rest…..
How one kid was pitted against the others and everyone….she was treated well…..so as not to substantiate the others claims of abuse. Like ONE ally.
She stood with her mother, not believing it, and changed her mind when her mother confessed just recently.
She didn’t live the same as the others in childhood and couldn’t believe the stories the kids told about the abuse……
You could see her wresteling with it…..wanting so badly to still believe her mother.
It is the same way S’s work in society…..keep at least one ally….to counter balance any bad stories….
and split people off and make them self doubt.
Even after they are exposed with PROOF….DNA, FACTS whatever…..these people still want to believe it…..
Now picture the ones on the fence still…….because we are raised to believe all people are ‘good’….they will naturally sway in the direction of the ally…..
Because if this person was really really bad……then the ‘ally’ would speak horrid about them too.
All to confuse and keep anyone off balance….
SICK FUCKS!!!!
Generally, to beleieve someone is a Cluster B…..you really need to be intimate and destroyed by them to believe it….
But once we are in that position…..we are ALONE, unless there are other ‘victims’ that have lived it too.
Interesting watching the dynamics of the siblings.
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 2 February 2010 @ 10:52pm
Rosa says:
Yes, Erin. I agree with everything you posted above.
It was very interesting to watch the dynamics of the siblings.
It reinforces what we read and talk about here.
I believe the one daughter (with the black hair) even said she does not really talk about the abuse she endured because, like she told Oprah, “Who would believe me?”
I think we can all relate to that statement.
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 2 February 2010 @ 11:23pm
ErinBrock says:
Well…..knowing who her mother is now……I’d be talking away ……and nothing could shut me up!!!!!
Thanks for pointing the topic out today…..It was very interesting to watch…..from a survivors point of view.
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 2 February 2010 @ 11:31pm
one_step_at_a_time says:
Disappearing thread??? anyone have any idea why the ‘it starts at home disappeared? It’s creeping me out in a big way.
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 2 February 2010 @ 11:52pm
ErinBrock says:
The one ‘ally’ child….you could see how conflicted she was….
that was just so tormenting to me……
I believe if someone pointed out CLuster B personality disorders to her and she educated herself…she would see behaviors in her mother and realize…..HOLY SHIT!!!
When they talked about the mother ‘getting help’ now…and on meds…..she showed so much conflict of hope…..(reality vs hope) it was really sad and I could relate to that feeling she showed….the hope…..of so wanting it all to be untrue, and if she could just change it, life would be so different. The hope she held in her eyes.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 3 February 2010 @ 12:34am
hens says:
well watching oprah just now – has brought up many unpleasant memories and thoughts of my mother..ya know i have put her in a place that does not torment me – I will be so happy when I can do that with the s-ex
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 3 February 2010 @ 1:02am
one_step_at_a_time says:
jake – you are not at square one. ’cause you SEE the effect of what you did. you are at least at square 2 or 3
i think there are reasons (unhealed bits) we ‘look’ and it is an opportunity to take a close look at why you checkd out fb and some of the factors in your life that may have made that look like an attractive option.
don’t be beating yourself up -use the opportunity.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 3 February 2010 @ 1:12am
Rosa says:
I could not believe how uninformed they all seemed to be about Cluster B disorders!!
They were living it, and yet, they were still uneducated about it. At least it seemed that way.
I wish Oprah would have also had a psychiatrist on the show, like Dr. Leedom, explaining the disorder, the abuse that goes with it, and the dynamics of it all as these people told their story.
That’s what people need to see in order to understand this kind of abuse.
I was creeped out by the letters Wanda Barzee sent to her kids from the mental hospital. Like you said Erin, the “golden child” wanted to believe the letter was sincere, but the others were rolling their eyes.
It reminded me of an article on this website titled, “Realities Only Family Members Know”, written by Dr. Leedom.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 3 February 2010 @ 1:14am
ErinBrock says:
Jake:
Welcome, welcome……
I second Onesteps comment to you.
This is a great opportunity to connect with your reaction….you won’t do it again…
It hurts, things run through our heads, we ‘want’ to know…..
But when we do…..KABANG! WE wish we could take it all away.
Jake, this is lifes way of teaching you a lesson you needed to learn……and it sounds as if you’ve learned it….and will continue learning……
Don’t beat on yourself…..it’s OKAY!
If you don’t get the lesson this time around….it’ll be back around again, and again….until you get it.
So raise your head back up and move forward down your path of healing…..
We all have curiosity…..it’s what we choose to do with it!
Shake it up baby…..shake it up!!!
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 3 February 2010 @ 1:21am
ErinBrock says:
I’m with ya Rosa…..it was a perfect opportunity for education and changing lives though knowledge!
Missed the boat again……
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 3 February 2010 @ 1:24am
hens says:
I did the same thing Jake – after 2 years no contact I just had to look at fb and sure nuff there it was – and using a picture I took of it. there is an option on FB it’s called block this person – I did that also – not that this person would ever be interested in looking for me on FB. I am curious also but it didnt kill this cat – just gave me chills…and a big sigh of relief..
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 3 February 2010 @ 1:33am
one_step_at_a_time says:
i went to oprah.com to find the episode, but it seems like it isn’t online yet. hmmm, i will go check out youtube.
sigh, we have to start this party earlier – its’ almost 2 am here.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 3 February 2010 @ 1:45am
ErinBrock says:
Jake:
There always seems to be more ‘work’ to do!
Keep on trucken dude!
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 3 February 2010 @ 3:08am
ThePeregrine says:
I think this is a very important question (how to “be” …).
My approach is to be pleasantly unavailable. For a while, I would bristle when she came around in public places and tried various provocations; any such reaction on my part is fuel for her manipulation.
No more. She is unwanted smoke in the room. I am a warm breeze.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 3 February 2010 @ 7:10am
Quantum Solace says:
Any thing, the slightest of comments or actions is an invitation for these monsters to twist it around and use it against their victims.
I was recently in court with the monster in my life fighting over child support and college contributions towards my son. I have not seen or spoken to this monster in about 5 years. He seized the moment in the courtroom to approach me and started asking questions in front of the judge who is a total witch (with a capital B). She made me answer his questions, something I did reluctantly and with clenched teeth. Well, wouldn’t you know it? The next paper that comes out of his equally Psychopath lawyer is criticizing me for the college I have chosen for my son, how he’s wasting his talents and even making fun of the name of the school. Yep! I kid you not. Y’all should know that this is the same man that kicked my son out on the streets with the shirt on his back and now refuses not only to pay support for him but contribute towards his college education. Oh, btw, the judge doesn’t seem to find anything wrong with this scenario either. So, I’m now dealing with a Psychopath ex-husband, his Psychopath lawyer and a Psychopath judge. How’s that for shit luck?
As I always say, you just can’t make this stuff up!
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 3 February 2010 @ 8:03am
Cat says:
Louise, Congrats on the 2 year NC order! It took me a lot of work, slogging through the mire, as I call it, of constant calls to the police, being ignored or called a liar before I finally got mine and I’m doing something that EB suggested. I’m sending copies to ALL of the enforcement agencies, city police, sheriff’s department and surrounding suburb police departments, just to be on the safe side. She turned me on to the fact that they do not share this info with each other in a lot of places.
duped, after last night, I see what you mean. I had been expecting a call from someone who always calls as “anonymous”. I rarely take those calls but she had written ahead of time to let me know she was calling. The phone rings, I answer and it’s the spath. He DEMANDS I drop the NC order because it affecting his relationship with his son. CLICK goes the phone. He was still talking, but I didn’t allow it to go any further. That 10 SECONDS that I heard his voice sent me into an absolute tailspin. Yes, what we give up is peace, even during those interactions that we don’t initiate or don’t even know are coming. I had to leave the room my son was in, go upstairs and take time to settle. My peace was gone. I CANNOT stand that voice. Which is why the order is in place to begin with! I also took action and let the authorities know he had called. My land line lists all calls and what time they came in.
Jofray, Thank you for the tips! While I gave nothing away, I am going to work on that poker face which I liken to the word, INDIFFERENCE. Part of my problem and why he loved to play me is that I DID carry my emotions on my sleeve, as they say. There is much that I can stop saying in front of my son as well, therefore not allowing him to be such a huge tool for the ex spath. Yes, you are right. They look at their own children as tools and take what is said and then you ARE guilty until proven innocent in a court of law. Interesting how they can twist that around, isn’t it?
Quantum, I’ve had days where I thought I was stuck inside my own washer on the spin cycle because I’ve been through that. Yes, they will use anything and if they don’t have it, they’ll invent it. Mine had my family believed I was the one using drugs and they actually bought that for several months. They don’t now, of course, but I truly believed life was spinning out of control and I couldn’t stop it.
I can fully believe you have an ex Spath with P lawyer and a P judge as well. I walked through that too. I was forced to deal with my ex at times and it made my skin crawl. No, we can’t make this stuff up! Fictional writers couldn’t come up with what so many of us have/and still are going through. I DO believe it gets better!
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 3 February 2010 @ 11:04am
Cat says:
EB-THOSE EYES! My ex had this unsettling, unblinking stare. He could do this for a very long time. No emotions shown, none. This always seemed to happen when I was confronting him about something. I think, today, he was simply showing me the shadow of the soul that was never there to begin with. I’ve read about his kind of “stare” and found it to be quite common with them.
It’s creepy!
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 3 February 2010 @ 11:09am
Cat says:
Jake B,
Welcome! No, you are not stupid. one-step was right and I echo those sentiments. You already KNOW and that’s a huge step!
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 3 February 2010 @ 11:11am
Quantum Solace says:
Cat:
I used to describe my life with the monster as a never-ending episode of the Twilight Zone. This judge has labeled me as “a liar, unreliable and reckless” – Ha! Ain’t that a kick in the teeth? And no matter what I do or say, I can’t make her see the truth which has lead me to believe that she’s also a P/S of sorts and one in control of lives and with the power to cause some major destruction too. How convenient…and scary!
It’s been 13 years since I walked away from the bastard. When, exactly, will it get better?
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 3 February 2010 @ 11:19am
bethv says:
Donna, I spoke with you a while ago on the phone and you where helpful in that I now understand a little more how a sociopath “ticks”! I explained that I am the stepmother of 2 teenage children that my husband has with his sociopathic ex. Society assumes that all mothers are born with the desire to “mother” and love their children, as we have all found out the hard way, this is not always true. My ex is 59 yrs old and his children are 18 and 14. The 18 yr old has been estranged from us since he was 17, wanting No contact with his “loser father”. The 14 year old girl, hates having to spend her 2 hrs a week with her dad. All of this is the work of their “mother”, (I hate to give her that term). Nothing is more heartbraking and disturbing but to see a great man and father struggle every waking minute to receive any morsel of love from his children. I am a highly educated 48 yr old woman with a medical degree, and I could have never imagined or been prepared for what my husbands ex does to our lives continually and the lives of their children, and everyone in her path. The children worship her and are 100% brainwashed and dillusional. I know this will not end for us for at least 8 more years when the 14 yr. old is out of college, and the ex has no more financial hold on us. Even then she will continue to control and manipulate the children with guilt…she is the victim as she thrives as society believes she is. God help us all…..especially the children!
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 3 February 2010 @ 11:35am
AKA Bob says:
Bethv:
I am sure my wife (stepmother to my 8, 12 and 14 y/o’s) is very sympathetic to your plight, as hers (and mine) is almost the same. My ex provides financially for me (only by court order) as I supported her executive career for years and I stayed home for several years (still having hard time finding work in this economy). She moved away for her lover. She took me to court to move the children and lost. From the beginning of the court issues, starting with the day I said I would not move with the children, going through custodial evaluation (he recommended the kids don’t move) and all the way through the hearing process, my ex had cleverly, through subtle manipulation, attempted to alienate me from my kids. She felt if they told a hired “expert witness” (child therapist) that they wanted to live with her, that the court would consider it (it backfired immensely). To this day I suspect the alienation occurs passively with regularity (to feed her week ego – see passage below). This occurs by her telling lies to my kids why she “had to” move, how I agreed to move and backed out, among other things. I don’t believe she regularly says blatantly bad things about me, I suspect her supporters who they spend time with do. But she continues to make herself appears as a victim to my alleged scheme.
I would like to recommend the book “Divorce Poison” authored by Dr. Richard A. Warshak. While not specific to sociopaths, it sheds a bright light upon the subtle and overt parental alienation that our ex’s perform, as well as the unconscious alienation we are guilty of and don’t realize it is occurring. I read the book some ago, but in just opening it this moment I found the following passage which I had previously highlighted, which I believe applies to these mothers who have no motherly instincts.
“Bad-mouthing parents act superior. But many actually feel inferior as parents. The put down the other parent in order to convince themselves, the children, and the world that they are the better parent and more deserving of love.
Such parents fail to appreciate that the bad-mouthing and bashing they use to bolster their image as parents accomplishes the exact opposite. It demonstrates, for all to see, a severe parental deficiency: the willingness to sacrifice their children’s needs in order to feed their week egos.”.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 3 February 2010 @ 12:24pm
ErinBrock says:
Quantum Solace:
I am curious…..
In my state a parent can not be required to pay for college.
(remember we are not talking moral obligations, we are talking legal). And child support ends at 18 unless still enrolled in HS.
IS your child 18?
It is not clear to me why this is an issue…..that he drags you into court for?
If the father doesnt want to support his son in college, scholarships should be looked into by you/son….or financial aid in your sons name.
I learned to reduce my expectations of the S, as to not expect any financial support…..(and Im shocked he pays his child support monthly, quite frankly) I would love to see him help his kids out for college….but I do NOT think it’s a reality of these S’s…..just another avenue for control. If they ‘give’ anything ‘willingly’ and not ordered…..there are for certain, strings attached.
If you can eliminate this avenue …..and find other alternatives…..then it would eliminate any future court dealings.
Unless I understand something wrong here.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 3 February 2010 @ 12:24pm
AKA Bob says:
Jake B. -
We all do it for awhile, we want answers, we seek truth, but the truth hurts us. As we gain deeper insight to the P/S (and LF educates us immensely), we learn it is not us, it is them. We are good, they are evil. They fool everyone, yet everyone is not a fool. They are so calculating, charming and convincing, judges, police, attorneys, clergy, therapists, and others, those educated in identifying these P/S’s are even fooled. Don’t take it as personal flaw, I certainly don’t, and your friends here don’t see you that way.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 3 February 2010 @ 12:59pm
Cat says:
Quantum,
I wish I could give you an exact date and heaven knows I asked God that plenty of times.
In my case, it wasn’t ME that changed the minds of those in the judicial system, it was he, himself. By the time he had added a few more things to his rap sheet, they were on to him and still are. Judges will change their minds on their own. The more you try to make anyone see what they are, the more frustrated you end up being. I learned that lesson a VERY hard way. And consider this; she’s only one person. She’s not that damned special. When he screws up, and he will, she will see HIM as the one who’s reckless. Can you suggest anther judge? That might help YOU feel more comfortable in the court room.
EB: I learned to adjust those expectations as well. Long ago, I went to court, established paternity and asked for NO child support. The mediator was shocked. I knew all the way back then that if something happened, he would never pay and he’s proven me right. I DID ask for medical coverage and got that. He didn’t follow that, so we’re off to court again, though he doesn’t know it.
As far as college goes, in my state it’s not something the courts order the parents to do. I have 3 older children with a wealthy dad and when he and I divorced (15 yrs ago), I had it put in writing that he would pay for 4 years of college for each child and he honored that. The spath will never do that.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 3 February 2010 @ 1:02pm
Quantum Solace says:
Cat:
I know, mine was a rhetorical question. I’ve never heard of asking for another assignment judge and getting it. Once you’re caught in the legal web, your life no longer belongs to you. As for this judge, I seriously doubt she’ll see anything. I’ve presented her with all the proof she needs to make a fair decision and she refuses to look at anything I offer. Of course, vicious as the other side is, they’ve already picked up on that and on the last hearing, they were making me out to be a thief too. And this after it was he who stole everything we had, including the children’s accounts. I learned a long time ago that there’s no one so blind as he who can’t see.
I have since hired a lawyer, it wasn’t easy and most certainly not cheap but the guy seems to have a grasp on the situation. Let’s hope that does’t change now that he’s got my money in his pocket. If nothing else, at least it will get that witch (with a B) of a judge off my ass and I won’t have to listen to her yelling at me anymore. That alone is worth something.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 3 February 2010 @ 1:16pm
ErinBrock says:
One thing we can’t do is fall into allowing anyone to dictate to us how we react.
We must undertand what courts expect, and direct the ‘flow’ of the courts by our behaviors.
If a judge is acting out of a professional manner, file a complaint.
We can ask for a new judge…..discuss this with your attorney.
I’m unclear how you can have the same judge after 13 years.
we need to remain in control of our situation at all times…..it’s part of the S’s ideal to portray us as the problem.
Once we are perceived as the problem, the outcomes are very frustrating and expensive.
We should concentrate on facts and facts only…..they focus on throwing up smokebombs….with no substance.
A judge is trained to filter facts from smoke.
Why is this judge ‘on your ass’? What are her ‘issues’ with you? Her claims etc…?
I think I may be totally unclear of a lot of things in your situation and I appologize for this.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 3 February 2010 @ 1:46pm
Quantum Solace says:
First, I haven’t had the same judge in 13 years. I’ve had different ones over the years. This is only my third time back since the divorce.
As for asking for a new judge, I never heard of that before. Really, it’s not as if litigants get to call the shots.
The P portraying me as the problem is not the issue here as he’s been doing that for 13 years and I’m well aware of his tactics and how to defuse them. For whatever the reason, this judge hates me, she did so since before I even entered the courtroom. In fact, it was her who labeled me as all those things (a liar, unreliable and reckless) on her own and the Psychos only took her lead and are making it worse now. As for her issues, well, I think she too is P and that’s why she identifies with the other side. And she’s on my ass for everything, anything and nothing at all. You name it. She’s just a bitch, that’s all.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 3 February 2010 @ 1:57pm
learnthelesson says:
Quantum -
Would finding a mothers rights group w/legal background in your area be helpful? Also — there must be transcripts available which will show bias or unfairness if the judge is without any merit referring to you as a liar, unreliable and reckless….at which point you can appeal her end decision should it not be in your favor. But again you need to have fairly solid proof that she began the hearing with negativity and bias toward you.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 3 February 2010 @ 2:15pm
bulletproof says:
EB
It sounds like a lifetime of education.
‘The facts and the facts only’ is courtroom language (as is perpetrator and victim) I appreciate the judge needs to filter facts from smoke. The P is made of smoke and illusion so there is never the sense of having ever nailed them so
You have to talk like this, and it’s invaluable expertise.
They must be held responsible and to pay the price for their crimes that can be proven so that justice is restored to the “victim”, children can be helped to understand what is wrong and what is right, to sort out the confusion and the longing to believe their parents are loving and kind when they clearly are not.
After doing this can we then get back to loving and sharing and belonging and the hundreds of things that make us happy and refuse to let the P’s of this world rob all of our precious energy? I don’t know that we can until a certain process is complete, part of this seems to be strengthening the ego so that we are not demolished by psychopathy but satisfied we have triumphed over it.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 3 February 2010 @ 2:28pm
Quantum Solace says:
We’re into this 3 months and 2 hearings now. She has refused to look at anything that I have provided as proof and has denied everything I have asked for. Granted his petition without me being served and refuses to vacate it. Yet, she won’t hear my petition. She refuses to look at what I submit, asks the P for his opinion and rules in his favor (you see the irony here of taking the ‘word’ of a pathological liar at face value, right?). It is sickening the way she treats him. If she asks a question and I give her an explanation, she has nothing but nasty remarks like “that was too much information” or “more information than I asked for” and demeaning stuff like that. She also yells at me something awful (although I’ve heard that others complain of the same thing). Essentially, when she called me all of those things was simply because she wouldn’t look at the paper work I provided, asked me a question, cut me halfway thru and inferred what she wanted to. She’s a real horror that one! She sounds like a lunatic with PMS and out of Prozac.
As for an appeal, yeah, sure, no doubt. Nothing that wouldn’t cost me $25,000 or so to do.
Back during the divorce, I exausted all resources and couldn’t find anyone to help. I was treated rather poorly everywhere I went until I gave up. If that was then, when I had no job and 2 little babies in my arms, what do you think I can find today when I’m an able-bodied person by all the extent of the imagination?
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 3 February 2010 @ 2:30pm
learnthelesson says:
Quantum -
Talk about feeling defeated…just reading this makes me want to meet privately with the Judge to ask her about what it meant to her to take the oath of office!!!!! Simply control? and nothing else… Wow!
Anyway… there is a website that allows you to ask Judges questions…maybe you could get some good advice or tips or legal stuff here: copy and paste ALL of this into your URL -
http://www.justanswer.com/tags.....5QodSyPkdA
also…you could write the judge through your attorney or county clerk (affidavit)
and lastly, could you take the stand and have your lawyer ask questions that get you to tell your side of the story…
or maybe you need a new lawyer??
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 3 February 2010 @ 2:50pm
Quantum Solace says:
It’s a bit more complicated than that. Everything in my life is more complicated than it needs to be.
I’ll check the website, thanks. Much appreciated, who know, I may learn something useful today. Ha!
I’ve been representing myself, something I have done well in the past but she’s pounding me so much that I just can’t take it anymore. So far, she’s put out 2 orders with 3 pages each in which she has denied everything. It’s so blatantly unfair because the proof is in front of her all along, all she has to do is look at the papers and see it but she keeps complaining that it’s “too much paper.” I know where this is going and it’s not going to be good, cheap or easy to get out of it so I’ve thrown in the towel and, after much looking, finally hired a lawyer. I think he understands me and my needs but we’ll see if that holds. In the past, they’ve made a U turn on me and left me high and dry. Anyway, one of the things I hope to get out of this is that he can make her see things differently. For some reason, she really hates me and is merciless. The lawyer will buffer me and by presenting things in a different way, maybe, she’ll see my side. That’s a long shot thou that hasn’t worked in the past. Judges stay consistent from beginning to end and whatever happens on the first hearing pretty much tells you what to expect.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 3 February 2010 @ 2:57pm
ErinBrock says:
In my county you are allowed one request of change (judge).
You certainly don’t get to choose your judge, but in the persuit of justice this is allowable for several reasons.
Your case goes back into the ‘kitty’ and your assigned another judge.
I would make this my first priority with my new attorney.
Even if the judge IS an S….you must educate yourself on the judge you will appear before…..research is key in this (just like knowing the ex)….google her/him and research their rulings on other cases. Talk to others whom have appeared infront of this judge. (keeping in mind all cases are different). If your county video tapes the proceedings, order several from this judges hearings and study them……
See what she is looking for, deals with, accepts and reacts to……AND COMPLY and MORPH your case/personality/presentation in the way SHE will hear it.
You must become the chameleon and present to the judge the way this JUDGE wants to be presented to….manner, personality, body language, tone, accent, WHATEVER.
It’s very time consuming…..but if you wish to be successful….it has to be this way….
My first choice is that you seek another judge…..file that first!!!
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 3 February 2010 @ 3:00pm
Quantum Solace says:
I wasn’t aware that a litigant can request a chance of judge. I’ll check with my attorney on that. I’m truly hoping that the attorney can make the difference. She won’t have to deal with me anymore and I’ll be completely buffered. It really is difficult to ignore though, the deference with which she treats him and even the little sarcastic remarks and the way she outrights cuts me down and yells at me. Again, I’ve heard other people complain of the same but have heard others say also that she is fair. So, go figure!
I know that my attorney is crafting some things for me that no one ever tried before which gives me a lot of hope and a good feeling about him. The first thing he told me was, “we have to do some damage control” – I really liked that! Now, he’s also a criminal lawyer so, maybe, he’s approaching this from that angle. How fitting, huh? For the first time, he will be treated like the criminal he is. His lawyer though sucks but is so evil, so disgusting and such a poor excuse for a human being. They’re perfect for each other. Gawd! How can anybody not see right thru them?
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 3 February 2010 @ 3:08pm
ErinBrock says:
I still vote for another judge!
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 3 February 2010 @ 3:19pm
learnthelesson says:
Maybe some judges have something against self-representation????? Prior bad experiences, etc… who know….
Wouldnt that be GREAT if you could get a new judge!!! Good to know EB!!!
Meantime your new lawyer sounds like he’s on the ball and has a plan!!
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 3 February 2010 @ 3:28pm
Quantum Solace says:
I wouldn’t mind that at all.
Although I hate to say this, I’ve found out that when dealing with female judges, there are some who feel they have to be extra hard on the women so as to show how very “fair” and “unbiased” they are. No, I guess, the don’t really realize that what they are doing is unfair and biased but, either way, we women are at a disadvantage most of the times. She could very well be this type, totally going his way to show how fair she is which would certainly explain things. She is also fairly new at this judging thing and may be going thru a period of adjustment in which she’s trying to be real tough before she finds some happy medium (hopefully).
I also know that male judges tend to favor male litigants over female too. There is plenty of research and articles on that out there. I had a male on the first round and he was an a***hole, just exactly like this one. I could’t win one with the guy for anything. The second time, I had an older female and she was unbelievably great. She saw right thru the monster on day one put him in his place many a time but he got himself two (not just one) lawyers to craft the lies for him which didn’t help him any. I ended up winning that round but now I’m back in the shithole again.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 3 February 2010 @ 3:30pm
ErinBrock says:
There is a judge in my county that has a notorious reputation for being poor on the bench.
Everyone said don’t get him…..you’ll be cooked….
I’ve heard it from male/female/attornies….etc….
Well…..heres the lesson….I’ve had contact with this judge to discuss Cluster B’s and how they are handled and identified from the bench…..
This guy has been the MOST receptive person I have held conversations with…..(not in the courtoom)……and given what he has experienced……and what My attorney has said about him…..was that if he wsa my assigned judge….I would have NOT balked.
I think he can recognize DV, recognize the destruction ans games and is willing to do continuing education on the subject of Cluster B’s…..
So…..in the courtroom…..there is 2 people….one will walk out upset…..so a judge has 50% chance of satisfying someone and 50% of pissing someone off…….
When we research the judges…..we need to keep thi sin mind and use our own educated filter to decide how this judge will be in OUR case. Not get caught up in the ‘drama’ of someone pissed off because it just ‘didn’t go their way’….
Fair is fair….on all sides of the coin….
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 3 February 2010 @ 3:42pm
learnthelesson says:
such a shame that not only do we have to adjust how we act/react/behave with a S in the courtroom – but now we have to do the same with the judge in the courtroom.
Whats the point of a judge again? If a judge isnt aware of cluster B’s or how they operate — youre right back in the victims seat all over again….
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 3 February 2010 @ 3:48pm
Quantum Solace says:
In my case, all 3 times, it has been all or nothing. Very loopsided. As for him not being happy, who gives a rat’s ass, really? The reality is that the guy is incapable of feeling any emotions so he probably doesn’t care either way. Except that when it goes his way, that validates his wrongdoing and empowers him only to do more of the same.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 3 February 2010 @ 3:49pm
LouiseGolem says:
Gosh, I got lucky, with a very compassionate judge.
Jake, welcome! We all have that weakness, believe me. You just confirmed that I’d better avoid Facebook a little longer. I took my page down when I came to realize that my S/P was having his daughter read my page for info he could use against me (Yeah, the child who is the ally – his daughter. She is one screwed up chiick.) I’d love to get my page active again, but I’m really afraid I’ll go look at his. And hers. I really want to have someone sitting there when I open my page again, so they can help me focus on the “Security” page first thing, where I’ll remove them both from my friend list and make it so only my friends can find me on a Facebook search. I can’t believe it, but I have to admit that I”m literally afraid of Facebook! And of what I might do if I go into it too soon!
Cat, thanks for your congrats on my Order. And wow, I’ve been getting those Anonymous phone calls – three in one week – haven’t gotten them since he was harrassing me this past August. I’m sure it’s him. I won’t answer.
Wish I could say more about this judge thing. It’s mind boggling. . . .good luck to all. . ..
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 3 February 2010 @ 6:38pm
one_step_at_a_time says:
Jake – see, you are making good use of your fb experience already, by playing it forward!
I too had a pretty much blanket ‘caring and sharing’ edict. and yes, it was flawed.
Now, I have a bigger set of tools with which to relate to people: caring and sharing for those who prove to be trustworthy, and the concept of shutting out and walking away for those who do not. I have lots of practice to do in this life to learn to use the tools well and smoothly – but i have learned a lot in the first part of my life, and i can continue to learn in the 2nd part of my life.
It’s actually a gift Jake – this horrid eye opening experience of being spathed. And yes, my ability to trust is ruptured, but I am pretty sure I can heal that. I want to come out clearer and fiercer, more able to protect myself in the world and within myself (against the negativity I carry with me), and more able again, to protect others; able to love myself as never before and make myself my own top priority.
I have abandoned myself endlessly, in the name of spiritual principles and familial ‘love’; i can learn to stop this now. that horror show spath pierced my need for love so very deeply, that i can see that *I* am my only hope.
best,
one step
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 3 February 2010 @ 7:17pm
ErinBrock says:
From my warped mind….
Jake wrote: “Louise DON’T LOOK!..please…..you don’t need to know what’s going on down in the toilet bowl!”
Once you shit….flush it down!!
You wouldn’t chase shit down to the sewer….would ya?
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 3 February 2010 @ 9:56pm
Rosa says:
I have a tiny confession to make.
I am a FaceBook virgin. I’ve never been to FaceBook OR MySpace.
Am I missing out on something here?
What is the purpose of FaceBook??
My curiosity is now peaked.
If I need to socialize with someone, I either call them or e-mail them, so I don’t get the FaceBook thing.
But, then again, I’ve never been there.
I have a nerdy side…..and I think I just showed it.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 3 February 2010 @ 10:17pm
Rosa says:
Thank you, Henry. That’s all I really need to know.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 3 February 2010 @ 10:24pm
hens says:
ok Jake – here’s the deal.. you have a pattern of meeting loser’s and user’s, It’s time for you to dig into your childhood, your past and find out why. Your not an idiot. Stop focusing on them and focus on yourself…I recommend a book – Meaning from Madness – by Richard Skerritt…
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 3 February 2010 @ 10:27pm
Rosa says:
Thank you, Jake.
My curiosity is no longer peaked regarding FaceBook.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 3 February 2010 @ 10:39pm
one_step_at_a_time says:
Jake – I’d also suggest the Betrayal Bond. Available in the love fraud bookstore. Good for digging in to the past.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 3 February 2010 @ 10:56pm
ErinBrock says:
Rosa:
Facebook was a very valuable tool I used to gain mucho info on the spath and his ‘dealings’…..
I was soooooo shocked at what I reconed there…..AND HE DIDN”T EVEN HAVE AN ACCOUNT!!!!!!!
I was a wonderful tool……for recon…..during the divorce….knowing when he was coming back to town……etc,.
BUT I WOULD NEVER EVER EVER EVER and FOREVER have a ‘real’ acount!
Even though I LOVED IT!!!!! HAHAHAHA.
Im with you if i can’t call ya or visit you….then ya don’t need to know anything about me….
The thing about here is we still have anonymity…..
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 3 February 2010 @ 11:14pm
ErinBrock says:
Hens….
dang…you make me laugh……
I’m gonna go check my toilet….make sure ALL the plumbing is in order!
Jake…..thanks….gutsy is good I think…..well….I guess it depends on what side of the guts your on….haha!!!
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 3 February 2010 @ 11:19pm
ErinBrock says:
If you could only hear me!!!!
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 3 February 2010 @ 11:32pm
OxDrover says:
Dear Jake,
Welcome to LF, it is a healing place and Knowledge=power and I suggest you go back through the archives and read EVERY article (save the comments for later, just read the articles to start, there are hundreds of them!)
There are lots of “truths” we are taught in Sunday school and regular school, that are FALSE, “there are two (valid) sides to every story” or “it takes two to fight” or “there is good in everyone.”
There are many more of these UN-truths that many people subscribe to in our world.
First off, there ARE people who are EVIL. There are people who do bad things but are NOT unable to repent. There are people who have PATTERNS of abusive behavior that are INCAPABLE OF REPENTANCE. It is, unfortunately, not a SAFE world and just because you do GOOD doesn’t mean you won’t be “crucified.”
Look at the story of Jesus, and his battles with the Pharisees of his day, they were CROOKED “religious leaders and politicians”–He called them out on it (called them hypocrits) and said they were like whitewashed tombs, beautiful on the outside and inside full of rotting flesh. For this, these “holy” men got false witnesses to work up the crowd and get Jesus crucified. Those men had no “good down in them” because they had “hardened their hearts” and would not repent. They were willing to order Jesus put to death as a criminal because they didn’t like the TRUTH He spoke.
The Bible is filled with men who did some pretty nasty stuff, like King David, an adulterer and murderer, yet he was referred to as a “man after God’s own heart.” WHY? Because when he was chided for his bad behavior, HE REPENTED. He changed his ways. Good people sometimes do bad things, but they can and DO repent and change their ways. EVIL people do not, they enjoy the evil that they do.
Learn all you can about psychopathy, and learn all you can about what it is about yourself that allows these people to get close to you.
You don’t have to become UN-trusting, just cautious, trust should be EARNED not “given until proven untrustworthy”—it is a lesson that each of us I think needs to learn and take to our hearts, and how to WATCH for the “red flags” that signal a predator in human form. Glad you are here, stay around a while. Great people here. God Bless.
(Report abusive comment)
Thursday, 4 February 2010 @ 12:16am
Spirit40 says:
Rosa,
Facebook can be a great place to re connect with old childhood friends and also family members abroad. Personally from my experience it has been my connection to all of my cousins in other countries and great people I grew up with… my space on the other hand is blah……with facebook people can search for you but you decide whether you want to add them to your list of friends or family…….
(Report abusive comment)
Thursday, 4 February 2010 @ 6:30am
Rosa says:
Thank you, Erin & Spirit40.
I knew there had to be something useful about FaceBook, because it is so popular.
Everyone always talks about it, so it made me curious.
That’s all.
(Report abusive comment)
Thursday, 4 February 2010 @ 9:32am
LouiseGolem says:
For me, Facebook has been a wonderful tool – I lived and worked abroad for several years, and when I went on Facebook, suddenly all my friends in other countries were there for me again–and it was so great and so easy to be in touch with them.
Unfortunately, my S/P and his family and immediate circle of friends joined as soon as they saw my engagement in FB. At first, I thought it was fine, but I thought everything was fine. Then I started to realize what a freakish relationship I was in, and how, suddenly, his daughter in particular was taking great interest in topics that were near and dear to my heart and that she had never, for two years, even cared about. The further I pulled away from him, the more she was (I began to realize) drawing on details about me that she got out of the Facebook profile to keep me in their web.
It was all very upsetting!! And I started getting very concerned for all my friends, since I was beginning to understand what predators my S/P and his daughter could be. So I deactivated my profile. I really want to activate it again, but as Jake has pointed out, it’s very hard to keep from looking. For me, this all happened not too long ago, and it still hurts an awful lot. But I can’t let him rob me of my friends. He’s robbed me of so much else. . . .
(Report abusive comment)
Thursday, 4 February 2010 @ 10:55am
Cat says:
Louise, you are more than welcome and I’m so glad you have it. They really do prove to be useful. Those anonymous phone calls ANNOY me. I’m getting them more and more and I know it’s him as well. I found a button on my new phone system. It says, “Do not disturb.” Use it quite often these days! He would think nothing of calling at 11 at night to say goodnight to our son, who it 10. DUH.
Jake, Louise and EB, All of you make good points about FB. I made the choice to take my page down for awhile. I knew he was looking for stuff because my son told me. The upside of FB is that you can learn yourself. I use it at my discretion.
Welcome back Ox! You have been sorely missed on here, but I’m also glad you took a break and hope you had a wonderful time! I echo your sentiments to Jake on his question. Evil does exist and always has. As you well know, I’m somewhere in the healing process and learning to pick out those red flags. I am finding most of them come right from my own intuition. If something doesn’t FEEL right, it’s a read flag.
(Report abusive comment)
Thursday, 4 February 2010 @ 12:00pm
LouiseGolem says:
Yeah, Cat, the trick with those Protection Orders, as my counselor says, is enforcing them. These obnoxious Anonymous calls make it hard for me to say he’s doing it (aka: enforce the Order.) But I can change my phone number, and I’m afraid I may need to do that.
Red flags — as you say, Cat “come right from my own intuition.” Like the night I woke up (towards the end) and my gut was just screaming SOOO loud. No one single reason, but I knew that my body was telling me to save myself.
Listen to that gut, my friends. I’ve said this before. But then again, I think I”m preaching to the choir here, when I say that.
(Report abusive comment)
Thursday, 4 February 2010 @ 6:52pm
one_step_at_a_time says:
Louiseg – does your carrier have a function where you can block un named callers? or specific callers? might be cheaper than changing your number.
(Report abusive comment)
Thursday, 4 February 2010 @ 9:59pm
OxDrover says:
I thinkk of all the advice to ask the questions here that BLUES SHOES has the most appropiate advice. To be with a “flat affect” (marginally polilte) and actr like you were exchanging answers with the queen of England. Don’t speak unless spoken to, then answer in 1-2 word replies and that in a bored or neutral voice.
Keep your posture straight, neither smile nor frown. If he wants to “make light conversation” tghere is always the old “Oh, I must go to the restroom,, or back to my car, or something” to get out of his face.
I agree about your mom letting him hug her….I think that is ann insult to you and I would see if I could get that stopped if I could do so without making a big row. I think her demeanor should mimic yours.
Don’t be the first one to make contact or start a conversation.
If you can keep it so that there are long silences by using shoulder shrugs for answers away when he is talkin to youk, so he is talking to the side or back of your head.
Not letting anything he says get you upset, or if you do get upset, do not let him know it. Just showinjg total disinteresst in him, or even interupting him by leaning over while he is talking to you and speak to someone else about a totally different subject.
Anything short of spitting in his face to make him feel unwelcome. If this happens in front of your kids and they ask “why don’t you like to talk to daddy” yhou might just reply “Well, daddy and I are not married any more and I find it uncomfortable to speak to him now.”
Good luck with it. I can only imagine how stressful it must be to co-parent with one of these jerks. (((hugs))))
(Report abusive comment)
Friday, 5 February 2010 @ 12:23am
tryingtoheal says:
The police had to get rid of my sociopath for me, when I called them they said he was calling them every day to try for my arrest! He left vile and threatening messages everyday on my voicemail, demanding I see him. Since the police officer said he would stop him, I haven’t heard from him again. I’ve since found out he owes money to almost everyone in my locality. I looked after and kept him when he was ill in my home, and when I said I’d run out of money and didn’t believe him with his daily yells on his phone for people to bring him money, he threw a rage and I threw him out. Steve, your post about the sociopath as a practical joker describes him to a T, you write such amazingly descriptive posts about my ex S, its like you knew him personally! I can’t thank you all at lovefraud enough, I am so grateful, you helped me to make sense of it all when I was so angry at him – and at myself for being so gullible and I just hope I have learnt enough to recognise a sociopath in future, hopefully I’ll never see one again, I can only describe them as vermin. He exists on handouts whilst telling people he has $40 million dollars in a bank in the States! Tells people he was in the Military and umpteen other things to get pity, and all whilst being so charming. I fell for his accent too and his larger than life personality. He used to brag about what he could get away with and professed undying love for me, when really he was just so pathetic. I cringe and feel sorry for those he is continuing to dupe, how I wish I could tell them, tell them to run as far away from him as possible. I wonder why there aren’t programmes on TV warning people? I was so naive when I met him, I cringe when I think of it.
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 9 February 2010 @ 9:53am