LETTERS TO LOVEFRAUD: I was dismissed with a shrug
PDF Editor’s note: Lovefraud received the following story from a woman who we’ll call “Trista.”
I met the man who has been my husband for 30 years in a language school. He was serious, but could be funny, a bit shy, but also had a way with words. He had beautiful eyes and lots of girls were in love with him. I was no exception, but it was me he chose to go out with.
The relationship soon took off and we were a pair. Those first days were good; I had no idea I was dealing with a sociopath. When I took him to meet my mother, however, when things were very serious between us, she said that she thought he needed some “help.” I dismissed it.
I did realize how quickly he took offense for the least of things, and how quick he was to respond with offensive words to other people. Soon after we married I started to see more and more of his temper, that other people called a “short fuse,” but it was still directed to others, not to me. My time would come.
Controlling the money
My S was very controlling with money, getting angry even if I bought him a present that he thought cost more than I could spend. He continued to control me through money for all those 30 years, never allowing me to go to the supermarket on my own, not giving me money to any expense, and having screaming fits if I did anything like taking the initiative of paying for a small cheap portrait of our infant daughter. My friends and family thought him “odd,” and because I was so afraid that some people would do or say the wrong thing near him and trigger a terrible scene, I started avoiding most of my friends. We lived on our own with our two small kids, and provided that I would not ask for money or invite people who could get him in a mood, life was sort of ok.
Church was another problem. As a Christian, I was used to church life and he was brought up in a Christian environment as well. However, we could not be in any church together. Something would happen, something the preacher said or that other people said would trigger his horrendous fits of rage. I used to be terrified in church, paying attention to where the sermon would lead in case it would touch some subject that he would find offensive. I remember real terror while in church, till the last time he stormed out of the building and verbally attacked the pastor at the door. I never went to church with him again, but I also could not go alone, in case he thought I did not think him fit to go to church. This would cause even more problems. In the end I gave up church altogether, but not my Christian faith.
Holidays on his own
In the middle of the 90’s he started going on holidays on his own, to countries in Europe. I was never invited, not thought of, as I stayed behind to look after the house and teenagers. I don’t believe that he had one minute of doubt about the propriety of a married man in his 50′s going to holidays alone every year. I decided not to say anything.
I was still very scared of confronting him about anything; his rages were severe and I was scared because his eyes would change to look like glass when he was angry. He would scream not to touch him, to get away from him and his eyes would go big and glazed. Once when he was driving, somehow something we said got him in one of his tempers and he drove with fury near getting on the pavement, and barely missing a lady and a child. My daughter was in the car with me and we both thought we would die as well. He had no control over himself. A bit later on he started breaking things, like the Christmas tree, ornaments, and also pushed me against a table, I bruised my ribs and had to go to the hospital next day.
He got a job as a teacher in a University. He can somehow give a good interview and charm others, he is intelligent and cultured. Later on, when they see the problems, it is usually too late. His boss has already commented on his “glazed eyes.”
In love with Poland
As part of this job, he got a trip to Poland. When he came back, he was a man completely taken by the Polish life and people, in such a way that I can only describe as sick. My house immediately became full of Polish ornaments, his friends became only Polish people, he became obsessed by them, in the same way he became obsessed in the past by other cultures like the South Americans, the Russians, the Orientals. He had “phases” when he only talked and walked around people of those cultures, now it was the Polish. I knew it well, but could not foresee a new developement: He “fell in love” with a Polish … boy.
I was away for some weeks visiting my family and when I came back there was something different about him. He had bought a mobile phone, was using it every minute, and hiding in the garden to talk. I also got an email he passed to this boy and it was a complete sop, an email a man writes to his girl. I got the phone number of the boy, went to talk to him, who was only 20 (my S is 57) and did not know about the situation; he had a girlfriend! It was in my S ‘s mind; he interpreted friendship for another thing. This boy was his former student.
The S in my life even said after being discovered that he needed the excitement and when I pointed out the absurdity of a 57 married man who is a grandfather chasing a 20 year old boy who is younger than his son or nephews, he simply said “he had no one for him,” meaning, “I did not have to account for my actions to his family, since he has none.” He continued to behave in the most shameless manner, telling our friends that he was in love with a boy and alienating our friends even further, telling his family that both him and my son had Polish people in their lives (because my son had had a Polish girlfriend). He even asked me why I thought that I was God’s will for him and not that boy. I was speechless.
Mask slipped
From them on I argued with him for two years about the impropriety of such things, the absurdity of it, but he denies having done anything. When I talked to the boy I was made aware that he had invited him for a weekend trip and I got it just in time. He tried to blame me for his actions and denies having done me any harm or the children. However, our family is in tatters and I have filed for divorce with the support of my children. I have seen a counselor, who also saw him and he told me to leave him and that he has been cheating on me all my life. This boy was not the first one, but now the mask has slipped. Interesting enough, other people have used that term to refer to him, my friend said she always saw him as having a mask; my brother said that “his plug fell.”
At the moment he is still denying the boy was more than friendship, even after the fact that he took our wedding ring off and told me he was not married to me, didn’t want me, didn’t love me, and cried like a baby for this boy. I have all the evidence; he still denies it and makes me feel I’m somehow to blame. For two years I went nearly crazy because of his faulty logic, his coldness, his shameless deeds. He still denies that he has done wrong.
He has no remorse, no thought of me or the children about it all; he considers himself a good Christian who goes to church every Sunday but never learns anything. He said that when he did it (about the boy) I never entered his mind.
I’m now nearly divorced and have nothing else to do with him. He is still involved with the Polish, and is dressing up as a 20 year old himself, walking with groups of young people. My son is ashamed of him and my daughter says she hardly knows him. He couldn’t care less for me, his wife of 30 years. I was dismissed with a shrug.
written by Lovefraud Reader • Permalink •
one_step_at_a_time says:
hofc: still here. need to stick around for a meeting.
this might be a little wild but check out diamand gallas on youtube.
she did a piece called plague mass in the 80′s that blew me away (she screams like a banshee on that, sure she has wrecked her vocal chords)
i bought a cactus when i was depressed, and that bugger grew like crazy, in the middle of winter. gave me hope. seriously.
i suspect the feeling of disconnect is not all depression, but has to do with this relationship. I still feel disconnected from people – am doing a whole shift about how i look at people and life, so my energy is very inward and protective of myself.
one step
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CAmom says:
Height–I am coming into this late but want to mention a couple of things….
When I was in my early 20s I had a job as a “jailhouse civil rights activist” which meant I went to the local jail daily and interviewed inmates about living conditions, etc.
Well, I met a guy in his late 30s who was about to be released. He had a long history of incarceration for violence, including domestic violence. And I thought…he won’t hit me…he says he loves me…I felt happy and loved…
And then one evening I said something I thought was fine, and he slugged me, hard. I managed to leave, long story short, before I left town he had blown up my car (as in totally blown up/burned) was stalking me and was threatening to kill me.
They aren’t called “cons” for nothin’. He (and a lot of the inmates I met through my job) was very charming, intelligent, creative…and I was young and totally taken in by him.
Leaving him was very hard, even after all of the crap and horror I went through. Some sort of Stockholm Syndrome I think.
I returned to town after finding out he’d violated parole again and was in prison. I bought a gun. And I was scared for years. In fact, about 10 years later I was looking over the lettuce at the market and heard a voice behind me say, “I know you live on ___ street.” It was him and he was right–my young daughter and I did live exactly where he said. I turned, smiled, shook his hand, said how nice to see you, how are you, you look great…and left the store shaken beyond belief.
I went to my apt., packed and left. Another 10 years pass and I see him again. This time he was clearly dying of what I think was full-blown AIDS.
(he used heroin) Knowing he’s gone is a relief.
But, he isn’t the reason I’m on Lovefraud.
My ex-P husband is now 68 years old. Alone. Looking for both female and male company–female for a “serious relationship” and male for sex. Profiles for women on internet dating sites, and for men on “adult” internet dating sites.
He’s a PhD in clinical psychology and retired college professor. A published author. He is charming, bright, funny, etc. I thought HE would never hit me, ever. He was from a wealthy family, very “spiritual”, a guru type guy. And…he choked me, threw me on the ground, stepped on me, etc. That’s just the physical stuff.
The first time he choked me I was stunned. Then he denied he’d choked me, and said the red marks on my neck must be a rash or something…
And then there’s my dad–a retired high-ranking, always on TV, respected cop. 84 years old. And STILL a sadist. At 84. My daughter is 35 and we all live in the same town–me, my dad, my daughter. My daughter has met him twice. She couldn’t recognize him in a line-up. I wouldn’t let him near her–not that he ever expressed any interest in her. But I wasn’t taking any chances.
There are some people who are so poisonous, so dangerous, and yet appear so wonderful. My friends thought my dad was great. Funny, charming, you name it…I guess my point is these people do not change or “get better” with age. You can never love them enough–they aren’t about love. They can learn how to *mimic* loving behaviour–that’s it. The rest is pure manipulation.
Years ago my aunt casually said to me, “I don’t think your father has ever had an honest emotion in his life.” Summed him up perfectly.
And guys who have been in jail are not afraid to go back. They usually have very poor impulse control and can be really dangerous.
I was a sensitive, depressed teenager and young adult and thought these guys “understood” me. (Not my dad–his brand of Psychopathology was/is extreme)
My ex was quite a bit older than me and I thought he was “safe” given his age and occupation and status. The ex-con was wishful thinking. And I hoped my dad would get better with age. No.
Most of my life I lived on the edge of that abyss and it feels terrifying and bottomless. Except it isn’t. Disconnection can be a useful tool for self-protection. I experienced that a lot in my life…now I don’t need it so much…I took baby steps. I slowly woke up. I wanted a horse–had one as a kid, teen and into my 20s, but felt it was too big a commitment and what if I fell into the abyss and couldn’t take care of one. I finally got up the courage and bought a sweet little mare a couple of years ago. It’s fantastic to just go and wrap my arms around her.
Learning to stop being so afraid…learning to deal with PTSD…
learning there are people who “have never had an honest emotion in their lives= liberation…enjoying the smell of bedsheets dried in the sun…being free.
Onestep–I understand about the cactus.
And sorry this is so long!
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learnthelesson says:
Height of Confusion,
Im actually concerned you havent nearly hit the height of confusion yet…and that the worst is yet to come. Please try to take a day or two devoted just to reading old articles on LF…go through the Archives and find articles that relate to what you are dealing with. You will be blown away by the way you can relate to so many people who have been stuck in unhealthy, dysfunctional, depressed and DANGEROUS relationships.
You said
” Still don’t know how welcome I am around him now, seemed happy to have my company last night but dont know about tonight or over the weekend.”
Some day you WILL see that being confused and not knowing how things are going to be or how he feels about you from one day to the next….some day…. YOU WILL SEE…that this is no way to live.
I wonder – how welcome is HE around YOU now? knowing he chose to be out all night (god knows where ) on what I think was his first night back?? I wonder did he enjoy your company or use you last night?
Also, everything he does you seem content to find an excuse for or defend in some round about way…or joke about it…or say you are just too tired to care about any of it. Does this include being too tired to care about yourself?
And when the day comes that he physically hurts you (altho you dont believe its possible – trust ALL OF US – its not only possible but very probable on the path you are taking with him…but will you also make excuses then too… saying he didnt mean it…or it was just one time..??
Many women here have WALKED IN YOUR SHOES…LF is here for so many reasons, not only a place to talk and be heard…but a place to READ, AND LISTEN AND LEARN AND TAKE GIANT LEAPS OF FAITH TO BELIEVE IN YOURSELF. Sadly, you are the only one who can make these choices. You are the only one making every choice you presently are to settle for the safety and security of dysfunction WITH SOMEONE, rather than deal with it alone.
You said you dont want to leave because youre afraid you cant deal with the depression and anxiety,etc by yourself. I mentioned before you technically already are doing it by yourself …except when he is around he is with you — complaining, bitching, borrowing, using, lying, cheating. But yet it makes you feel less alone when he is at least “there”.
Imagine if he left and you finally faced your fears about dealing with your depression and anxieties and things bottled up in you since you were young — imagine the possibilities of seeking help — and finding a real MAN to treat you like the beautiful soul you are and deserve. Because its possible – but only when you are ready. In the meantime we are all here for you to support you through your journey. Please try to take the time to read old articles here on LF.. it may just open your eyes and help you to see through the confusion to the truth. YOU DESERVE A BETTER LIFE. YOU TRULY DO
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witsend says:
Height Of Confusion,
The truth about domestic violence is pretty cut and dried. A man generally doesn’t hit you until he gets you where he wants you.
And the man that you are with “has you where he wants you”.
They work on verbal abuse and mental abuse usually before they become physical. Make you feel really BAD about yourself. Depressed, unworthy, unattractive, WHATEVER they can do to make you feel bad about who you are and what you DESERVE. They make you feel insecure. Like you NEED them to survive.
THE BEST indicator of FUTURE behavior is PAST behavior.
This man is a bad man.
You deserve so much better. Please do not look at what he is saying. (lies) Look at what he is doing (facts)
Read story here on Lf : Marriage to a sociopath ends in murder. And click on the red link to read the full story.
This is the worst possible case senerio. But you are a young woman and you have your whole life ahead of you. PLEASE get away from this guy.
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HeightofConfusion says:
Hi Guys
Thanks again for all the input..
Erm not really sure where to sraer I guess to say that I have been reading LF since November Articles and comments but have reread some of the suggested one to try and see them with fresh eyes (hoping something clicks i guess) and yes it is truely amazing how similar some peoples stories are to mine. It is so comforting just to know other people have been through the same ything (and survived)
As for me being ready to leave him I am no where near – the more nasty he is to me the harder I try to please him. I have had previous bad relationships – not with men with his mental problems or violent past but bad guys all the same who treated me like crap (worse than my current boyfriend foes) and I stuck it out til the bitter end put up with a hell of alot more than I am at the moment and the pattern is the same, I stick it out til they get bored of me and then I become a wreck (suicidal, end up in hospital etc) can’t hold down a job (got 2 at the moment) everything just goes to bits. I can’t cope I know that and I’m just not prepared to do that to myself willingly it’ll happen on its own anyway – I’m just trying to prolong it.
As for the violence thing I know how it looks and every logic part of my brain tells me he will get violent – there is every reason to thing he will and no reason to thing he wont. I could be wrong but I just don’t think he will, I honestly believe he does care enough ro get that angry with me. He has never had a relationship that has lasted as long as this one has and he has always been violent. Which means going by his pattern he should have been violent ages ago.
Not with him tonight so don’t know where he is or what he is doing but he did call me to ask what happened last night. Which yes was he first night back.
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one_step_at_a_time says:
HofC:
you said:
‘I could be wrong but I just don’t think he will, I honestly believe he does care enough ro get that angry with me. ‘
he is a diagnosed sociopath. the other experiences you have had hold little weight here – he does not have to care or not care. THEY LIVE IN A DIFFERENT PARADIGM. You have no idea what might make things swing that way for him. just sayin.
besy,
one step
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one_step_at_a_time says:
AND, HofC:
You actually CAN do something different this time – you DON’T have to go to hell to crawl to a place of no abuse. Just sayin.
best,
one step
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one_step_at_a_time says:
CAmom- your post broke my heart. (((((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))))
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HeightofConfusion says:
Like I said I could be totally wrong and maybe he will get violent one day – and if he does going by his past it will be brutal. But I just really don’t see it. I do promise to admit it to you guys if he ever does though.
But thats really not by biggest worry just now, my biggest worry is him leaving me – i honestly don’t beleive I’d cope.
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sabrina says:
Learned,Onestep, Wits,Camom-sorry if I left anyone out. I am proud of you guys for taking so much time in sharing sooo much truth, wisdom, and loving advice to Heightofc.
I too had some very strong responses as I, like you, can see where h-of-c needs help. A therapist could NOT give her such sound advice as you guys. You are really laying it out there in very personable, heart wrenching real life experiences.
HeightofC- I’m sorry if you don’t have family who you can share this with but here on LF- You are cared for and we. as hopefully you can see by now, will always be here for you.
You may not like what you are being told, but know that we will always shoot straight with you- as it has been said- The truth will set you free- BUT FIRST it will piss you off!
I pray that the “fog” of this brainwashing this man has you in will be gone and that the truth will be CLEAR to you, and you will get away safely.
PLEASE hide your money-not in the house, my x S went thru the entire house finding all money he could find as he innately knew somehow that his time with me was almost over. Keep it away in a bank acct. that he dosent know about.
Have a safety plan- a certain phrase you could say to a neighbor or friend that shows them you need help. Keep car keys where you can get to them easily-better yet have a 2nd set hidden out.
Know that an aerasol can of oven cleaner can be used like pepper spray-keep cans of it around.BUT- Don’t rely on false security in an attack situation- Realise that locked doors can be broken very easily. (my x P broke down 2 locked doors in a second flat while in a S rage)
Understand that fighting back with a violent criminal is NOT a likely option for you. An S fights to win=destroy. YOU are NO MATCH for a man who HAS used his hands as a deadly weapon.
When you get to the point of forcing him to leave- please blog here or other sources for advice. The time of breaking up is the MOST dangerous time for women in risk of DV.
BEST advice hands down for a known criminal P to get rid of him is to “appear” really broke, in need of help, boring, non sexual, and uninteresting. Make it so he wants to leave, no benefit to staying- then you may just get lucky enough that he disappears without numerous police escorts.
You say he dosent care enough to start trouble with you- You are dead wrong- CARING is not part of the equation. Its irrelevant , null and void- he just wants to win/destroy.
I hope you never experience the wild eyed animalistic rage that explodes from nowhere and chills you to the bone, crushing your body and spirit. I have, and others have.
Re read the above posts, these precious girls didnt pour their hearts out to you to steer you wrong.
Pray for strength, and you will find it. xoxo
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hens says:
Height of Confusion – You say you become suicidal and go to bits, you say you stick around until they are bored with you and then they leave and you fall apart. I assume you have been down this road before? how many times? Is this a pattern with you? Are you hearing what you are saying? Could it be that you are gettin involved with the same kind of losers over and over? Well you just described me. Or at least who I used to be. This last romance from hell did me in though. i just could not or can not do this anymore. fortunatley for me I was forced to look at my patterns. Why i fall for such losers and think I am worse a loser than he. But some good came out of my last relationship from hell. After picking myself up off the floor, going to therapy and learning about sociopaths and personality disorders, yes his and mine, I was forced to take a hard look at myself, my past, my patterns, the why and why nots. This is a Life Lesson – please learn from this…and i know exactly why you make excuses for him and why you feel you cant live without him. But you can and you will. You are understood here and if you do the work on YOU, then you will understand why.
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learnthelesson says:
Sabrina – xoxo !!! Im getting to bed SO late tonight, but I just checked in…
H-O-C -
You sound like you have a firm understanding of your choices and the path you wish to continue to choose for yourself. Nobody can ever steer you or advise you in a direction you dont want to go. When you want to be in a different place – you can and will make it happen.
I use to think the same way about “he never had a relationship as long as this one – and I thought – WOW, I must be so special to him…BUT NOPE, I was just the naiive and not so bright hopeful one – all the others were smart enough to get out, get away or were physically abused so many times that their friends and family insisted they stop seeing him… the reasons he was with me, stayed with me so long were in fact none of the reasons I thought…. he stayed because I allowed him to take advantage of me and emotionally abuse me.. because I knew very little about how to end the cycle of dysfunctional relationships in my life – until I was ready to find myself.
I respect your words :
“As for me being ready to leave him I am no where near – the more nasty he is to me the harder I try to please him.
“I have had previous bad relationships – bad guys all the same who treated me like crap (worse than my current boyfriend foes) and I stuck it out til the bitter end put up with a hell of alot more than I am at the moment and the pattern is the same,
“I stick it out til they get bored of me and then I become a wreck (suicidal, end up in hospital etc) can’t hold down a job –
“can’t cope I know that and I’m just not prepared to do that to myself willingly it’ll happen on its own anyway – I’m just trying to prolong it”
I do think after multiple dysfunctional relationships we begin to rationalize negative attention is better than none at all. And/or perhaps its easier to hurt than to be alone… none of us are above you…many of us have been where you are in a dysfunctional situation with another (in some form or another). But I know I speak for many of us when I say I hope you choose to save yourself – rather than to totally lose yourself over and over again from the severe emotional abuse of a bad man.
My thoughts and prayers are with you as you grow and learn and continue to figure out whats best for you.
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learnthelesson says:
Hi Hens – Like the name! Still would like a LF Party some day – to meet all the amazing and wonderful souls who have found LF for life!!!
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hens says:
HI Learn~! Good to see you. Yes a party would be great. So many come and go here, it is comforting to read your post. You are one of my designated life time healers ~!
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HeightofConfusion says:
Hey Hens
Yeah your right – thats pretty much me to a T. I am currently seeing a therapist to work out some of my issues and why I do what I do but to be honest other than a place to vent I don’t find it that helpful. Infact She seems to think he does really care about me :-S which as you can imagine only confuses me more (am I the mad one?)
As for thinking I am special to him or whatever I’m dumb but not that dumb. I know I don’t matter to him at all which is why I am so sure I could walk away whenever I wanted without a problem. I do appreciate the advice about leaving but to be honest I can’t think of anything he could do to make me want to leave and even if I did llike I said I don’t feel he would put up a fight.
It is much easier to hurt like this I am used to it but have never really been alone since I was 16 (this is my third relationship) my past relationships weren’t good my first was violent and ended up in the whole police court thing and the second was just a really bad rebound idea during which I ended up getting myself into a fair bit of trouble.
I feel like an idiot today actully I have the day off and have bought new clothes, spent all morning getting dolled up and am away to trail round the shops getting stuff for him and I have a terrible feeling he is going to cancel on me tonight (what a shock that would be)
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learnthelesson says:
Hens – Cant believe you know who he is. I hope she is alive.
HOC – That was pretty much me to a T too. But I was really THAT dumb and naiive and needy with my ex. Im glad to read what you wrote to Hens that you are ‘”sure you could walk away whenever you want without a problem.” I can relate to your posts. If it really is you to a T eventually you will get to the point where enough is enough for you –
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learnthelesson says:
HOC -
Correction. In my above post I referred to myself as “THAT dumb and naiive and needy” with my ex. Which shows that I am forgetting what I learned and continue to learn as I choose to only have healthy positive relationships in my life.
What I really should have shared with you is this
That was me to a T, too! What it came down to is I DIDNT HAVE THE TOOLS TO DEAL WITH A BAD MAN. I was inexperienced with a dysfunctional relationship and didnt know what to do and didnt think there was much I could do – but stay and try to make him care and love me (oh yeah he said it alot – but his actions never showed it)…so withouth having the tools to deal with him I pretty much settled way less than I deserved and lived in the fantasy that he cared and spent many days and nights with a terrible feeling that he was going to cancel on me all the time – and most times I was ALONE – or he would grace me with his presence for a few hours – just enough to get me to convince myself something from him (a text, a stop-over, needing a loan, negative attention, etc)…was better than nothing at all from him. Then I learned I had a choice — and eventually I focused on me and my problems rather than his. And I learned the tools I needed to be able to end my relationship with him. But only when I wanted to. It took several years..
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Cat says:
learnthelesson,
I relate to what you are saying to HOC. I had NO CLUE what I was dealing with. I didn’t know nor could I conceive even the concept of someone being this evil. I did cartwheels, tried to rehab him, save him, be his reason for happiness, and on and on. His pattern was to be around to be in control, followed by periods of “love and affection”, which were only a setup to get what he wanted, be it money or whatever.
Once I started to learn, once I started studying these types of personality, I went to work on me. Not him. I was done with that. I saw him for what he really is; a body that walks the earth with no conscience and will take whatever he wants with no thought whatsoever to those he hurts. He can’t understand my emotional pain because he lacks a heart and the ability to truly love. It takes time to go through the “wake-up” process, but once started, I don’t think there’s any turning back.
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learnthelesson says:
Yes Cat,
It does take a long time to go through the “wake-up” process especially when two personalities are each feeding off of eachother quite by circumstance. For me, it was alot to do with not really knowing any better or not knowing what to do (along with not knowing myself) and how my awareness and acceptance of my choices could really make a difference in every part of my life. I really had to question was I the crazy one?? Was it me?? In the end, I found my answer to be no, I was not crazy. But I was terribly lost and confused as a woman in an unhealthy relationship.
It no longer became is it him? Is it me? It became “well at this point its now become both of us STUCK IN A DYSFUNCTIONAL UNHEALTHY RELATIONSHIP” – and it came down to – who wants to change? who wants more/better for themselves? who wants to live experiencing life in a positive way? and who wants to continue to live everyday the same cold and dark way – alone on the inside and pretending on the outside.
I chose life over death of my spirit and soul. Everyday is a challenge, but life is truly so much better alone and working on myself…than with a bad man who doesnt want to change because he checked out of a healthy respectful trusting and caring life long, long ago.
We work on trying to save an unhealthy relationship until we have no choice but to work on saving ourself first and sharing our progress and failures to inspire others.
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witsend says:
HeightOfConfusion,
Maybe what you can do for yourself is to start journaling.
When you are in the “fog” of these types of relationships, sometimes even hours after a “situation” with them, it is hard to define what really happened, even to yourself. Write it down. What actually happened, and how you felt about it.
Write down what he says he is going to do and then what he actually does do.
After a week or two of journaling read back what you wrote.
And on paper make a list of exactly what it is that he does for you that you “think” you cant live without. NOT what you WANT him to do but what he actually contributes to the relationship.
Then on a seperate piece of paper write down what your needs are from a relationship. What you think he should contribute but that he doesn’t.
This “indifference” that you describe that he has towards you is not good. What that really is, is control. He has control over your emotions. He acts indifferent and you try harder to make him happy. It is control and manipulation and that is a dangerous formula that he uses to get what he wants.
The purpose of writting all of this on paper is so that you might read it later and see it in black and white.
It might be something you could take with you to your counseling sessions.
The fear that I have for you is that right now you don’t see how dangerous of a situation you are really in. (and he KNOWS this) But if and WHEN you DO, the situation then becomes even MORE dangerous. (because he will know THIS to)
Please at least understand that you need to have a plan to get away. Make an extra car key. Put it in your pocket every day after you take a shower, so if you needed to leave w/o your purse or coat (in an emergency) it would be right on you. Have a few hundred dollars stashed, for a hotel and a few days living expenses.
In this situation it is better to error in the direction of trying to protect yourself if need be….Than not. No harm done if you never need to use the extra key that you had made.
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hens says:
learnthelesson – [I chose life over the death of my spirit and soul.] Yepper’s we did didn’t we…
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HeightofConfusion says:
Hey Everyone
Not posted anything as I have been with hm all weekend (he actully didn’t cancel on me)
It was ok we didn’t even fight over the past few days which is good. He was however pretty cold and distant (I’m wondering if he is suffering from depression)
He kept saying all weekend that we would go out tonight or tomoorow but it never happened – he said the same about tonight but I doubt I will see him.
As for the advice – keeping a journal is partly what writting on here is about so I can come back and reread what has happened – as for taking it to therapy that is actully a really good idea.
Someone who knows him quite well also warned me when we first got together that if he “goes” (gets into a rage) what I have to focus on is getting as far away from him as quickly as possible and like I exsplained to her he has this habit of locking his door and keeping the key on him so if he ever did kick off and I actully wanted to leave – I couldn’t anyway. Although again that never has happened and I really can’t see it happening. I think I am the only one keeping us together and if it wasn’t for my constant effort I might not even see him again.
Think thats about it.
Oh yeah and my mother who I didn’t hear from for weeks at a time when he was away freaked out last night becasue I didn’t answer my phone and threatened to call the cops (cause she knew I was with him and was so worried about me apparently)
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learnthelesson says:
Height of Confusion,
Im not sure what you are seeking here at LF. I havent read alot of your posts, so maybe I will go back and see what it is Im missing.
This is a place for healing and growing and learning and finding respite from a S/P/N/Bad Person in our lives. I may be wrong but you dont seem to be looking for any of that here.
If you are just looking for a place to vent and share your experience as a person who has no intention of leaving a dysfunctional relationship, Im sure some of us here will be able to lend advice, support, guidance. But again, Im just not sure what youre looking for. You said you have no intention of leaving him.
I just personally find it hard to support a dysfunctional relationship that someone knows she is in and is knowinglyu and willingly wanting to take on whatever he tosses her way – up to and including knowing he could off on a potential rage – you would be stuck there. And you want to keep making constant effort to keep you two together.
Its usually the opposite here at LF. So I am a little perplexed and hope someone else may shed light on what Im missing. I do wish you safety, security and happiness in your life – through healthy relationships. I think youre a bright person – just confused and caught up in the chaos like so many of us were. The difference is once I became aware (yet while I was involved in it – I wasnt nearly as aware as you are about how bad it is) but once I became aware I sought help to get out and stay out. So Im having trouble relating to this.
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HeightofConfusion says:
learnthelesson
I guess I’m not so sure what I am looking for either. I suppose I am just happy to have found a group of people who know and understand what I am going through (it amazes me how much I have in common with so many people here and how similar the exsperiances are)
I suppose a place to vent is part of it as I’m sure you all know how upsetting the situation can be – being with a man like this.
But yes your right, I am not planning on leaving him. I would love to be able to but I know I’m just not strong enough. He is my world right now. People keep telling me I will reach the point one day when enough is enough – and I do really hope so but right now my energy is all going into keeping the relationship going.
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learnthelesson says:
HOC -
Thank you for your explanation. I was a bit confused. I wish you the best. Im glad you are here simply because something might connect with you someday thats just strong enough to give you the strength you need to get away from a dysfunctional relationship if you so choose to want to. Im not sure how much you actually hear or process here – but it is true we have all been in a similar experience.
Many of us land at LF because we want clarification of what a Sociopath is, what he does, what a dysfunctional relationship is …I think your posts will be helpful to others in that regard…and Im praying so many insightful experienced caring responses will be helpful to YOU as well in that regard – when you are ready to do what so many people here have done in your experience — came out from denial and faced reality.
Stay safe and thank you for sharing your journey
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CAmom says:
Height:
I think I speak for all of us in this: We are concerned about you. What you’ve written here is truly frightening.
Speaking for myself only, I have to wonder…*If* you are depressed the adrenaline and tension from living with someone/seeing someone with a known past of violence toward women can over-ride the depression…
It can take the focus off of yourself and your own problems and issues.
I speak from experience…being around a ticking time bomb had its (drama filled) appeal…I lived like that. It served some purpose at the time…and it was by far one of the stupidest and most self-destructive things I’ve ever done.
I posted above about a guy I got involved with when in my early 20s and how that went. What I didn’t mention is that his ex had contacted me and told me how he’d beaten the hell out of her. She was in the hospital for weeks.
I believed her. I didn’t think she had any agenda at all other than to warn me. But…I still thought he wouldn’t hit *me*–
and yeah, he did. He’d also passed the “time limit” I had in mind–i.e. if he was going to beat me, he would have done it by now.
I “really couldn’t see it happening” either.
There’s nothing exciting or interesting about, say, having your jaw broken. Or worse. But the thrill and excitement of danger? That’s another matter.
I should have taken up sky-diving instead…
If you’ve been totally honest with your therapist about this guys background and she isn’t telling you to stay away from him, I think you should find another therapist.
It’s really sad to hear you are actively pursuing a “man” who beats women. For your sake I hope he remains cold and distant–very, very distant.
And I hope you ask yourself: what am I getting out of all of this?
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witsend says:
Heightofconfusion,
It seems, by what you write that everyone senses the danger of this man except you. Certainly your mother does. The “someone” you mentioned that knows him quite well and gave you the warning. All of us here at LF know he is a danger just by his background.
The general information that you have recieved that you will leave when you have reached a point of “enough is enough”, is sufficient when it is in regards to a NORMAL “not so good” relationship.
The problem with that for you is that this man is dangerous. He is CAPABLE of harming you. His past confirms that.
And it doesn’t matter if he is angry or distant or indifferent or depressed or whatever his mood of the moment is. You can’t change his moods or his past. When he SNAPS, he will snap no matter what you do. You can’t change him.
No one here or anywhere else can make you see what you don’t WANT to see. Any more than you can “change” him, no one can change you or make you see the light, if you refuse to see it.
I am glad that you have found LF and you can come here and vent. At least that is something. Maybe someone can find the right words to trigger you to GET AWAY from this man before it is to late.
I am also glad that you are going to therapy. However if you have told her the TRUTH of your relationship with this man, you need to find another therapist. Because any therapist that had the facts of this man wouldn’t tell you what your therapist told you.
That is why I told you to write it down in a journal and bring it with you.
You said:
Not posted anything as I have been with hm all weekend (he actully didn’t cancel on me)
It was ok we didn’t even fight over the past few days which is good. He was however pretty cold and distant (I’m wondering if he is suffering from depression)
He kept saying all weekend that we would go out tonight or tomoorow but it never happened – he said the same about tonight but I doubt I will see him.
I don’t see anything positive in this weekend you spent with him:
It was ok.
He was cold and distant.
He promised we would go out, but didn’t go out.
He promised to go out tonight, but doubt I will see him.
What do you see when you read that in black and white?
A better question really is. WHY do you stay. WHAT do YOU GET from him?
Camom asked this question also.
Try and tell us what is keeping you in this relationship.
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Matt says:
HeightofConfusion:
“I am not planning on leaving him. I would love to be able to but I know I’m just not strong enough. He is my world right now. People keep telling me I will reach the point one day when enough is enough – and I do really hope so but right now my energy is all going into keeping the relationship going.” How well I know that song. You can read all about my day at the rodeo with my S-ex in my December 2008 posting “Criminal Defense Attorney Falls for Sociopath.” Yes, even I, who thought he knew it all and saw it all managed to get conned by an ex-con. I went through 15 months of unparalleled hell .
As I re-read my original posting what jumped out at me are the recurring themese that you cite — S-ex being my world. My doing everything I could to keep the relationship going. The chronic exhaustion.
Yes, I agree that you do have to get really clear on just what it is you want. Yes, I do agree that you have to reach the point of “enough is enough”. What I think you really need to ask yourself is this: what is it exactly I am getting from this so-called relationship?
Is it sex? If that’s the case you’re getting so little emotional satisfaction from your S, I seriously suggest hiring a good rentboy — he’ll treat you really well and you’ll come away satisfied.
Cynical? Not really. At the end of the day everything in life is quantifiable. Everything boils down to dollars and cents. What I came to realize with these non-human vehicles of discord is that you make a 100 percent investment in them and get 0 percent return.
Or is that you think you see some good in him that nobody else does? If that’s the case, let me tell you that the good ship HOPE has sailed and sunk. The sad fact of the matter is that a person’s personality is pretty much set in stone by the time that they are a late teen/young adult. My S-ex used to cry on cue about how hard he was trying to go straight (in the criminal, not sexual sense). How he always paid his debts. How he didn’t tolerate infidelity and been unjustly accused of it by his exes.
Know what? It was all bullshit. He had a criminal record. He had 15 creditor default judgments against him and 3 more pending. He cheated on me so openly that friends sent me i-phone photos they snapped of him in action. It was all a lie. What I saw was what I got. I just didn’t want to believe that.
Or is it that you are afraid of being alone? I now see that was a big one for me. I tolerated all his crap because I didn’t want to be alone. And so I paid — both emotionally and financially — for the so-called pleasure of his company. I was his ATM. I paid his rent. I paid for every date. I paid for vacations. I blew through over 100 thousand bucks in a year. For nothing.
Because know what? At the end of the day I realized I had never felt more alone in my life. That was one of the worst feelings I ever felt.
Sit down and fold a paper in half and make a list of what you get out of this relationship versus what you give. Then make a list of every awful, hateful thing he has ever done to you and a list of every good thing he has ever done for you. For me, it was seeing it all down there on the page in black and white that finally got my thinking clear.
And then do what you have to do to drive this creature out of your life once and for all. In my article I said “to get rid of a sociopath, become a sociopath.” You have to view this as a fight for scarce resources — your sanity, finance and health. You must go NC. And you must develop really clear boundaries which when he breaches them there is a consequence.
You still have friends who are willing to listen to you. By the time I drove S-ex out of my life, my friends were so sick of hearing about him that I swore I would have to crawl over miles of broken glass on my bare stomach to win them back. I didn’t have to go that far, but I also realized I had to make some hard life changes.
And that’s what you have to do. Change isn’t easy. After I drove S out of my life, I then lost my job. It’s been a tough year. But, after I got clear on what I wanted, I proceeded to meet a really wonderful man and my life is so much better than I could have ever imagined 16 months ago.
As for your therapist, I agree with CAmom — if your therapist doesn’t get it, find one who does. Mine let me drown for 15 months, listening to me babble week after week about S-ex and his problems and what I was trying to do. When I finally realized I was dealing with an S he said “well, I suspected as much.” I blasted him telling him that he had an obligation to point this out to me. So, I am a firm believer that if your therapist doesn’t get it, find one who does.
Sorry if I sound like I’m busting your chops and coming down on you like a ton of lead. There is so much of you in your postings that I see of myself, that I, like everybody else here who has been down the path, wants to realize that nothing is going to change with him. Absolutely nothing.
The way I see it is get rid of your S and change your life or stay with the S and lose your life. Your choice.
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learnthelesson says:
Height of Confusions previous answers to our questions…
“surely they can’t all remain loners for their entire lives? I don’t know I guess thats part of wjhy I try so hard. I can accept that he will never have any real feelings for me and would leave me if something better came along but maybe if I just try a bit harder, love him a bit more, get things right, make sure everything is as perfect for him as I can – it will at leaset keep him arounf as long as possib;e…”
“But thats really not by biggest worry just now, my biggest worry is him leaving me – i honestly don’t beleive I’d cope.”
“But yes your right, I am not planning on leaving him.”
I would love to be able to but I know I’m just not strong enough. He is my world right now.but right now my energy is all going into keeping the relationship going”
after rereading – Im sensing its easier for H-O-C to focus on anything but whats going on with her, her past, her fears, her truth…in order to function and keep going – H-O-C focuses on him and everything about him including the false hope that goes along with him.
I apologize for not seeing that earlier…for not getting where you are in the unhealthy cycle of a bad relationship. I remember having to get to a place of desire to get out ON MY OWN. As you will too. But you have to want to care about yourself, want to love yourself before him. We all had to get there to get it.
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Kathleen Hawk says:
HeightofConfusion,
I’ve read your posts, and I think there’s something wrong here. This blog is used for mutual support among people who are healing from these relationships. And everyone here has attempted to support you. But you don’t want support,and you don’t want to heal. You don’t even want to leave.
But that is not the really disturbing part. The worst of this is that you are escalating the danger in your relationships. You haven’t said what your family background is, but your tolerance for abuse and your pattern of going back into dangerous relationships after each previous one bought you to emotional breakdown suggests that you come from a history of abuse. And whatever help you’ve gotten, you are not recovered from that.
In this relationship, from everything you’ve said, it appears that you’ve found someone who may kill you. His history of violence against women, as well as extreme violence in general, the warnings you’ve received, the locked door that would make it impossible for you to escape, your awareness of all this and your idea that your happiness (or whatever passes for it) depends on not being abandoned by a man you know doesn’t care about you, your ability to put two and two together and refusal to act to save your own life … well, this is beyond scary. It sounds like suicide by relationship.
Virtually everyone on this site has been in the horrible addictive loop of relationships with people who don’t care about us. Some of us, including me, have lived with them long enough and been through enough pain that our greatest hopes have been just to not be hurt anymore. We’d given up on anything like love. So you’re not alone there.
But all of us maintained some some spark, someplace inside ourselves, that we were worth more. That we deserved better. We were hurt by what was going on. We didn’t lose our awareness of that. We had resentments, even if we didn’t feel brave enough to voice them. We had some kind of relationship with ourselves, even if they were full of self-hatred because of what we were doing to ourselves.
So my question is why are you doing this to yourself? Is this the best you can imagine for your life? When you look around you, or watch television, or read a book and see relationships that are based on kindness and respect, is there something about you that disqualifies you for anything like that? Why are you not worth more than this?
I’m sorry if this sounds mean. But your story is just plain scary. I don’t think there is a soul who’s read your posts here who would be surprised if we heard you were in the hospital or dead tomorrow. And I think that all of us would remember you as someone who is sleepwalking toward this fatal destiny.
There has to be some part of you that is still fighting for you. Some part of you that banging at whatever door it’s locked behind, saying wake up, wake up!
You are in danger. I don’t know how to put it more clearly. You’re on a countdown right now. Every minute that goes by brings it closer. If you’re lucky, he’ll dump you and you can go through your next emotional breakdown. If you’re not lucky, he’ll keep you until he destroys you.
When you’ve figured out that your life depends on getting out of this relationship, and figuring out why you’re in all these relationships, your life will change. But right now, you’re scaring everyone who cares about you.
Maybe you’re imagining that if your situation gets bad enough someone is going to rescue you. But that’s not going to happen if you don’t ask for help. The first one who has to rescue you is you.
Listening to you makes me realize how hard it must have been for my family and friends when I was going through this. They kept trying to save me, and I kept pushing them away. I finally wised up when I realized I was going to die if I didn’t get out. But you’re in more physical danger than I ever was, and you’re pretending that you can handle it. You can’t. The only control you have over this situation is getting as far away from him as fast as you can.
Kathy
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Kathleen Hawk says:
And HoC,
If that sounds too harsh, I apologize. I know you’re young, and you’re still trying to figure out how to live. I’m not trying to make a case for you being a bad person. I suspect that you deal with those fears, without me adding to them.
There’s is nothing that you’ve done and nothing that’s been done to you that keeps you from starting over. But you do have to stop this trend. Because you won’t survive it.
You deserve better. You’re a valuable person. Whoever gets your love and caring should be a person gives love and caring back to you. If someone in your past trained you to believe that it was pointless or dangerous to ask for anything for yourself, that training is wrong. It doesn’t support your survival, your happiness or your ability to create a life that means something.
If you don’t know how to do that, if your background didn’t teach you that you are valuable, and that you have rights and entitlements, and that you deserve to be treated with respect and compassion, that’s a good reason to be in therapy. But it’s also a good reason to stay out of relationships until you are better at taking care of yourself.
I know that’s hard. Especially if you believe that no one really cares about you. But there are other ways to have people around you. Clubs, churches, support groups.
Whatever is going on with you, you’re not going to fix it through a romantic relationship until you are capable of taking care of yourself emotionally. It’s good you are in therapy. If your therapist doesn’t understand that your problem is abusive relationships, you should probably find one that does.
I wish you well. Please take care of yourself.
Kathy
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learnthelesson says:
HOC…
Matt and Kathys posts pretty much sum it up from every angle possible. I hope something in there somewhere reaches you…
Lastly you shared that while you hadnt heard from your Mom in the weeks he was away – low and behold you hear from her when he returns — via a phonecall that went unanswered – and made her frantic with worry that something might be wrong.
I dont know what took place between you and your mom prior to his incarceration that kept you both from speaking to eachother…but girl you have someone who is still there for you and reaching out to you who cares about you and wants you to be ok… your mom. Some girls no longer have that person (their mom) there for them because their mom had no choice but to let go and give in to a strong negative (evil ) presence shaping and taking over in their daughters life.
Dont let that be you. You have a choice.
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hedidntbreakme says:
Update from my post on January 18th above:
7 months and counting NO Contact! Thanks for all of your support!
Today, after much prayer (I finally let the fear go). I went to the police department and reported the motorcycle. The police officer gave me the option of reporting it as stolen or unauthorized use.
Being that I still have some type of heart – I told the officer to report it as unauthorized use. The officer wanted to know – (the things that I feared) – where does he live? Physical attributes – all of a sudden the fear left my body – I volunteered the info without hesitating: He lives at blah blah blah, he is tall, blue eyes, mustache, 6/6. I also told the officer that I am scared of him and his family. I don’t want to go anywhere near him – the breakup was not good – after assaulting me in front of my daughter and then spitting in my face and then packing everything he ever gave me from perfume, clothes to worn shoes (he took it all back) – and this jerk owes me $30,000!
I felt so empowered and happy that I was able to make a police report on the bike that this jerk has that belongs to me – he has made no attempt to make any monthly payments – in addition to the $30,000 he owes me!
The officer said, they would try to contact him and put the info out nationally so if he gets stopped on the bike they would take it from him and call me. Now, I am wondering what will happen next…..will his mom call and curse me out or will he call and try to blackmail cuz he has some pics of me – At this point, I don’t care!
I want to live and be happy – not live in fear of this Jerk. I Pray & hope the officer who took the police report follows through – I can’t believe I let go of the fear and want the officer to follow through!
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kim frederick says:
Good job, HDBM.
Sometimes you have to stand up, in the face of your fears, in order to get free from bondage. Emotional backmail is tough, but don’t think for one minute that they don’y use it to manipulate and drive you into submission. So what if Mom calls you? The pictures, yeah, that sucks…but it may be the price you pay for freedom….And learn a lesson. No compromising pictures in the future.
I’m proud of you. Now stick to your guns.
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conomo says:
hedidn’t…
7 months no contact shows much strength in itself! In 2 and half years the longest I went was 6 months and 4 of them he was in jail for repeatedly breaking into my home.
I can hardly believe or explain it to myself why I kept letting back into my life over that 2 1/2 years let alone to anyone else. But I am learning. You know the saying 2 steps forward….sometimes 3 back.
I played the “I’ll pay you some money” game “but you have to see me” for most of that time.
It started by him helping me out by “renting a room”….wasn’t long before he lost his job and living off me completely….to the tune of 2K or so….then all the back forths where he would damage windows, doors, breaking in….wrecking my keyboard and guitar….keying my car….cutting the convertible roof….in between booting his ass to the curb–all the apologies…I love you baby….I’ll fix it all….I’ll get a job….I got a job!!…I lost the job…..blah blah blah….In the end he would probably oh me about 6k
The fear is the worst damage though……he stalked me although he wasn’t charged with it because it was a domestic relatioship…each time the behaviour became more cocky and threatening…..
He had taken compromising pics of me on his cell unbeknownst to me and threatened expose on the net as well.
He was put in jail again about 6 weeks ago for breaking in, theft, and possession of a prohibited weapon(a switchblade I had never seen before)
I was just starting to get over my fear and Monday the police came to my home seeking information about guns that he had stolen from somewhere(didn’t say where) and thought that he might have stashed them in my home or the 2 outbuildings on the property.
Just before he was caught he pxtd an email to me of a pic of him holding a rifle in some home. I assumed it was somewhere he was also breaking into. There were no words with the pic. Pxted a couple of still porn shots too. After that a series of text over the next few days saying he was in my backyrd(several of those)…”Welcome to the jungle baby. You’re gonna(and he didn’t say the last word)….said he had a bomb in one of the outbuildings timed to go off…(this part is crude)….a shit bomb. can you diffuse it hahaha…”got guns? lol…got bullets? lol” (I got brave and checked that building the next morning—he had been in it and relieved himself in the toilet that was shut down) He must have been watching me then cuz I immediately got a text asking “do I look like I have STUPID wrighten on my forehead?”
Like many here that is just another snapshot of the terror they can put us through.
The police want me to call if anything comes to mind that could help them and by golly I am going to even though I am scared shirtless. What if they don’t find those guns??? They also want me to keep the emails and texts. You betcha.
I am so tempted to delete this because I don’t want to trigger your fear, but want to commend you for being stronger than that fear and reporting him and co operating with the law to bring him to justice.
Be safe and stay strong!! ((hugs))
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OxDrover says:
Dear HDBM,
Good for you!!!! I’m glad you did this, and you know, I’m not about to give in to “blackmail” or “threats” or even “gifts”—
Cause the nice thing is once you quit being AFRAID of that “blackmail” what do you have to FEAR! What hold do they have over you. There are some new laws too about people posting “nekid” photos of others on the internet and some folks have gone to jail for doing it, so it might back fire on him if he did it.
Also, if you can prove that you loaned him the money he took, you can take that off your taxes as a “bad loan” or uncollectable debt, and that might help you some. Check with your tax person or read the regulations on that.
Congratulations on going to the police and on the NC as WELL!!!!!
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kim frederick says:
Conomo, I think you should talk to the police. NOW. Keep some kind of a weapon near you at all times. Do EVERYTHING you must to secure your home. Have absolutely NO CONTACT. DO NOT ANSWER TEXT MESSAGES. This man is dangerous. PLEASE BE CAREFUL.
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hedidntbreakme says:
thanks
Kim – i agree! so what if she calls me. I also had a fear of her too. she seems to be just like him – she thinks he does nothing wrong and is her baby boy – he is 33 years old.
she is like the “big bad wolf” a force to be wreckned with like her son. she had started calling me at work – i guess trying to keep me with her son. I changed all my phone numbers and didnt give my new numbers to her so – i hope she got the picture. The only way to reach me is at work.
I am no longer scared of them as for the pic thing – i just have to suffer the consequences of my actions yuck.
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conomo says:
Hi Kim,
My sequence of writing may have caused some confusion.
He IS in jail.
The police came 2 days ago for the gun search.
I will be giving them the rest of my evidence as soon as possible.
I just hope they find these guns before he gets out–whenever that is.
And yes more securing my fortress will be required.
I am so sorry to over alarm you. I just needed to get that off my chest. Sorry again.
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conomo says:
And Kim…I don’t know where your post is and I don’t know what to say….Oxy always seems to have the right words and does know your situation much better….but please know that you are in my thoughts and I wish you better circumstances as a result of your struggles. Love and hugs…..
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kim frederick says:
Thanks, Conomo. It’s just an AFGE…(another F@#$ing growing experience!)
Glad to hear you’re not in immediate danger, but please batton down the hatches! He probably won’t be in the hooskow forever.
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conomo says:
Yep Kim,
I have go ask when do these experiences get easier???
I just called the detachment. They are sending an investigation officer to talk to me tonight. Hooskow?? Never heard that one either. Sheesh I have been in a bubble for too many years. Time to burst it wide open methinks!!!! I havent’ even eaten yet and have to get back to business. I am so far behind. I will keep reading and trying to post when I can. Sometimes I feel so powerful and post away and other times I feel so inadequate and nothing I say would be helpful. I do care for the healing of all who have been involved with these BADMEN/BADWOMEN.
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silvermoon says:
Kim,
I can’t help but think of the opportunity for miracle which is there for you as you make the next transition. I believe there is one and that it is there for you and you alone.
You CAN make good things, better things happen and I have no doubt you will. My thoughts with you ongoing.
This came to mind when I thought of you-
Walt Whitman (1819–1892). Leaves of Grass. 1900.
82. Song of the Open Road
1
AFOOT and light-hearted, I take to the open road,
Healthy, free, the world before me,
The long brown path before me, leading wherever I choose.
Henceforth I ask not good-fortune—I myself am good fortune;
Henceforth I whimper no more, postpone no more, need nothing, 5
Strong and content, I travel the open road.
The earth—that is sufficient;
I do not want the constellations any nearer;
I know they are very well where they are;
I know they suffice for those who belong to them. 10
(Still here I carry my old delicious burdens;
I carry them, men and women—I carry them with me wherever I go;
I swear it is impossible for me to get rid of them;
I am fill’d with them, and I will fill them in return.)
2
You road I enter upon and look around! I believe you are not all that is here; 15
I believe that much unseen is also here.
Here the profound lesson of reception, neither preference or denial;
The black with his woolly head, the felon, the diseas’d, the illiterate person, are not denied;
The birth, the hasting after the physician, the beggar’s tramp, the drunkard’s stagger, the laughing party of mechanics,
The escaped youth, the rich person’s carriage, the fop, the eloping couple, 20
The early market-man, the hearse, the moving of furniture into the town, the return back from the town,
They pass—I also pass—anything passes—none can be interdicted;
None but are accepted—none but are dear to me.
3
You air that serves me with breath to speak!
You objects that call from diffusion my meanings, and give them shape! 25
You light that wraps me and all things in delicate equable showers!
You paths worn in the irregular hollows by the roadsides!
I think you are latent with unseen existences—you are so dear to me.
You flagg’d walks of the cities! you strong curbs at the edges!
You ferries! you planks and posts of wharves! you timber-lined sides! you distant ships! 30
You rows of houses! you window-pierc’d façades! you roofs!
You porches and entrances! you copings and iron guards!
You windows whose transparent shells might expose so much!
You doors and ascending steps! you arches!
You gray stones of interminable pavements! you trodden crossings! 35
From all that has been near you, I believe you have imparted to yourselves, and now would impart the same secretly to me;
From the living and the dead I think you have peopled your impassive surfaces, and the spirits thereof would be evident and amicable with me.
4
The earth expanding right hand and left hand,
The picture alive, every part in its best light,
The music falling in where it is wanted, and stopping where it is not wanted, 40
The cheerful voice of the public road—the gay fresh sentiment of the road.
O highway I travel! O public road! do you say to me, Do not leave me?
Do you say, Venture not? If you leave me, you are lost?
Do you say, I am already prepared—I am well-beaten and undenied—adhere to me?
O public road! I say back, I am not afraid to leave you—yet I love you; 45
You express me better than I can express myself;
You shall be more to me than my poem.
I think heroic deeds were all conceiv’d in the open air, and all great poems also;
I think I could stop here myself, and do miracles;
(My judgments, thoughts, I henceforth try by the open air, the road;) 50
I think whatever I shall meet on the road I shall like, and whoever beholds me shall like me;
I think whoever I see must be happy.
5
From this hour, freedom!
From this hour I ordain myself loos’d of limits and imaginary lines,
Going where I list, my own master, total and absolute, 55
Listening to others, and considering well what they say,
Pausing, searching, receiving, contemplating,
Gently, but with undeniable will, divesting myself of the holds that would hold me.
I inhale great draughts of space;
The east and the west are mine, and the north and the south are mine. 60
I am larger, better than I thought;
I did not know I held so much goodness.
All seems beautiful to me;
I can repeat over to men and women, You have done such good to me, I would do the same to you.
I will recruit for myself and you as I go; 65
I will scatter myself among men and women as I go;
I will toss the new gladness and roughness among them;
Whoever denies me, it shall not trouble me;
Whoever accepts me, he or she shall be blessed, and shall bless me.
6
Now if a thousand perfect men were to appear, it would not amaze me; 70
Now if a thousand beautiful forms of women appear’d, it would not astonish me.
Now I see the secret of the making of the best persons,
It is to grow in the open air, and to eat and sleep with the earth.
Here a great personal deed has room;
A great deed seizes upon the hearts of the whole race of men, 75
Its effusion of strength and will overwhelms law, and mocks all authority and all argument against it.
Here is the test of wisdom;
Wisdom is not finally tested in schools;
Wisdom cannot be pass’d from one having it, to another not having it;
Wisdom is of the Soul, is not susceptible of proof, is its own proof, 80
Applies to all stages and objects and qualities, and is content,
Is the certainty of the reality and immortality of things, and the excellence of things;
Something there is in the float of the sight of things that provokes it out of the Soul.
Now I reëxamine philosophies and religions,
They may prove well in lecture-rooms, yet not prove at all under the spacious clouds, and along the landscape and flowing currents. 85
Here is realization;
Here is a man tallied—he realizes here what he has in him;
The past, the future, majesty, love—if they are vacant of you, you are vacant of them.
Only the kernel of every object nourishes;
Where is he who tears off the husks for you and me? 90
Where is he that undoes stratagems and envelopes for you and me?
Here is adhesiveness—it is not previously fashion’d—it is apropos;
Do you know what it is, as you pass, to be loved by strangers?
Do you know the talk of those turning eye-balls?
7
Here is the efflux of the Soul; 95
The efflux of the Soul comes from within, through embower’d gates, ever provoking questions:
These yearnings, why are they? These thoughts in the darkness, why are they?
Why are there men and women that while they are nigh me, the sun-light expands my blood?
Why, when they leave me, do my pennants of joy sink flat and lank?
Why are there trees I never walk under, but large and melodious thoughts descend upon me? 100
(I think they hang there winter and summer on those trees, and always drop fruit as I pass;)
What is it I interchange so suddenly with strangers?
What with some driver, as I ride on the seat by his side?
What with some fisherman, drawing his seine by the shore, as I walk by, and pause?
What gives me to be free to a woman’s or man’s good-will? What gives them to be free to mine? 105
8
The efflux of the Soul is happiness—here is happiness;
I think it pervades the open air, waiting at all times;
Now it flows unto us—we are rightly charged.
Here rises the fluid and attaching character;
The fluid and attaching character is the freshness and sweetness of man and woman; 110
(The herbs of the morning sprout no fresher and sweeter every day out of the roots of themselves, than it sprouts fresh and sweet continually out of itself.)
Toward the fluid and attaching character exudes the sweat of the love of young and old;
From it falls distill’d the charm that mocks beauty and attainments;
Toward it heaves the shuddering longing ache of contact.
9
Allons! whoever you are, come travel with me! 115
Traveling with me, you find what never tires.
The earth never tires;
The earth is rude, silent, incomprehensible at first—Nature is rude and incomprehensible at first;
Be not discouraged—keep on—there are divine things, well envelop’d;
I swear to you there are divine things more beautiful than words can tell. 120
Allons! we must not stop here!
However sweet these laid-up stores—however convenient this dwelling, we cannot remain here;
However shelter’d this port, and however calm these waters, we must not anchor here;
However welcome the hospitality that surrounds us, we are permitted to receive it but a little while.
10
Allons! the inducements shall be greater; 125
We will sail pathless and wild seas;
We will go where winds blow, waves dash, and the Yankee clipper speeds by under full sail.
Allons! with power, liberty, the earth, the elements!
Health, defiance, gayety, self-esteem, curiosity;
Allons! from all formules! 130
From your formules, O bat-eyed and materialistic priests!
The stale cadaver blocks up the passage—the burial waits no longer.
Allons! yet take warning!
He traveling with me needs the best blood, thews, endurance;
None may come to the trial, till he or she bring courage and health. 135
Come not here if you have already spent the best of yourself;
Only those may come, who come in sweet and determin’d bodies;
No diseas’d person—no rum-drinker or venereal taint is permitted here.
I and mine do not convince by arguments, similes, rhymes;
We convince by our presence. 140
11
Listen! I will be honest with you;
I do not offer the old smooth prizes, but offer rough new prizes;
These are the days that must happen to you:
You shall not heap up what is call’d riches,
You shall scatter with lavish hand all that you earn or achieve, 145
You but arrive at the city to which you were destin’d—you hardly settle yourself to satisfaction, before you are call’d by an irresistible call to depart,
You shall be treated to the ironical smiles and mockings of those who remain behind you;
What beckonings of love you receive, you shall only answer with passionate kisses of parting,
You shall not allow the hold of those who spread their reach’d hands toward you.
12
Allons! after the GREAT COMPANIONS! and to belong to them! 150
They too are on the road! they are the swift and majestic men; they are the greatest women.
Over that which hinder’d them—over that which retarded—passing impediments large or small,
Committers of crimes, committers of many beautiful virtues,
Enjoyers of calms of seas, and storms of seas,
Sailors of many a ship, walkers of many a mile of land, 155
Habitués of many distant countries, habitués of far-distant dwellings,
Trusters of men and women, observers of cities, solitary toilers,
Pausers and contemplators of tufts, blossoms, shells of the shore,
Dancers at wedding-dances, kissers of brides, tender helpers of children, bearers of children,
Soldiers of revolts, standers by gaping graves, lowerers down of coffins, 160
Journeyers over consecutive seasons, over the years—the curious years, each emerging from that which preceded it,
Journeyers as with companions, namely, their own diverse phases,
Forth-steppers from the latent unrealized baby-days,
Journeyers gayly with their own youth—Journeyers with their bearded and well-grain’d manhood,
Journeyers with their womanhood, ample, unsurpass’d, content, 165
Journeyers with their own sublime old age of manhood or womanhood,
Old age, calm, expanded, broad with the haughty breadth of the universe,
Old age, flowing free with the delicious near-by freedom of death.
13
Allons! to that which is endless, as it was beginningless,
To undergo much, tramps of days, rests of nights, 170
To merge all in the travel they tend to, and the days and nights they tend to,
Again to merge them in the start of superior journeys;
To see nothing anywhere but what you may reach it and pass it,
To conceive no time, however distant, but what you may reach it and pass it,
To look up or down no road but it stretches and waits for you—however long, but it stretches and waits for you; 175
To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;
To take the best of the farmer’s farm and the rich man’s elegant villa, and the chaste blessings of the well-married couple, and the fruits of orchards and flowers of gardens,
To take to your use out of the compact cities as you pass through,
To carry buildings and streets with you afterward wherever you go, 180
To gather the minds of men out of their brains as you encounter them—to gather the love out of their hearts,
To take your lovers on the road with you, for all that you leave them behind you,
To know the universe itself as a road—as many roads—as roads for traveling souls.
14
The Soul travels;
The body does not travel as much as the soul; 185
The body has just as great a work as the soul, and parts away at last for the journeys of the soul.
All parts away for the progress of souls;
All religion, all solid things, arts, governments,—all that was or is apparent upon this globe or any globe, falls into niches and corners before the procession of Souls along the grand roads of the universe.
Of the progress of the souls of men and women along the grand roads of the universe, all other progress is the needed emblem and sustenance.
Forever alive, forever forward, 190
Stately, solemn, sad, withdrawn, baffled, mad, turbulent, feeble, dissatisfied,
Desperate, proud, fond, sick, accepted by men, rejected by men,
They go! they go! I know that they go, but I know not where they go;
But I know that they go toward the best—toward something great.
15
Allons! whoever you are! come forth! 195
You must not stay sleeping and dallying there in the house, though you built it, or though it has been built for you.
Allons! out of the dark confinement!
It is useless to protest—I know all, and expose it.
Behold, through you as bad as the rest,
Through the laughter, dancing, dining, supping, of people, 200
Inside of dresses and ornaments, inside of those wash’d and trimm’d faces,
Behold a secret silent loathing and despair.
No husband, no wife, no friend, trusted to hear the confession;
Another self, a duplicate of every one, skulking and hiding it goes,
Formless and wordless through the streets of the cities, polite and bland in the parlors, 205
In the cars of rail-roads, in steamboats, in the public assembly,
Home to the houses of men and women, at the table, in the bed-room, everywhere,
Smartly attired, countenance smiling, form upright, death under the breast-bones, hell under the skull-bones,
Under the broadcloth and gloves, under the ribbons and artificial flowers,
Keeping fair with the customs, speaking not a syllable of itself, 210
Speaking of anything else, but never of itself.
16
Allons! through struggles and wars!
The goal that was named cannot be countermanded.
Have the past struggles succeeded?
What has succeeded? yourself? your nation? nature? 215
Now understand me well—It is provided in the essence of things, that from any fruition of success, no matter what, shall come forth something to make a greater struggle necessary.
My call is the call of battle—I nourish active rebellion;
He going with me must go well arm’d;
He going with me goes often with spare diet, poverty, angry enemies, desertions.
17
Allons! the road is before us! 220
It is safe—I have tried it—my own feet have tried it well.
Allons! be not detain’d!
Let the paper remain on the desk unwritten, and the book on the shelf unopen’d!
Let the tools remain in the workshop! let the money remain unearn’d!
Let the school stand! mind not the cry of the teacher! 225
Let the preacher preach in his pulpit! let the lawyer plead in the court, and the judge expound the law.
Mon enfant! I give you my hand!
I give you my love, more precious than money,
I give you myself, before preaching or law;
Will you give me yourself? will you come travel with me? 230
Shall we stick by each other as long as we live?
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hedidntbreakme says:
Update from 3/17 post at 9:14a
okay – the police called me to let me know that this Sociopath – said he doesnt have the motorcylce and that he returned the bike to me some time October. He left the detective a voicemail.
i feel sick – he LIED on me. i expected him to lie but not that LIE. He never returned the motorcylcle to me – he has it!
i am sure he is going to damage the bike in some type of way now or even paint it or modifiy it so its not recognized…Can he do this? Can he remove the vin # – i am livid
i am sick!
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muld00n says:
They seem to have it down to a fine art to dismiss the ones they once professed to love, sometimes with only a week between…I remember the first time my husband dismissed or maybe dispensed with me..totally out of the blue,together for 8years, the weekend before we were on the beach and had had one of the nicest days ever, in fact we had been getting along and had been what I thought was emotionally close for months before, we bought wood flooring and paid a fortune getting it laid and we put a deposit on a new leather suite. We threw the old one out..Three days later he threw the worst moody one ever and on being pushed he told me he didnt love me and was leaving.kids and me sat on the floor with no seating….me and the kids were in bits..I now know that the day after we were at the beach a woman smiled and they ended up making a date for the next weekend!! He came crawling back three weeks later but not before my perception of him had totally changed and dare I say I had picked up a few of his callous traits…such as its no longer a romantic love, its a need, a business deal, Im constantly ready for him to up and off and where as before it would be the end of the world now it will be a mere financial inconvenience.
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OxDrover says:
Dear Muldoon,
I am sorry that you are choosing to live like that, I hate it that you feel it is necessary. Sounds pretty emotionally empty way to live and must be lonely even with him “there”—I think all normal people want to be loved. To be “married” in name only, and to not feel loved by that person, I would think would be pretty lonely. ((((hugs))))) to YOu muldoon.
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OxDrover says:
Dear Hedidn’tbreak me,
Of COURSE HE CAN DO THAT! He already DID THAT! Now it is up to you to prove he is lying, and it is sort of like proving that I did not shoot President Lincoln at Ford’s Theater that night! Just cause I wasn’t born then, and so on, doesn’t prove I didn’t DO IT! Of course he SAYS he jgave you back the bike, and he has [probably already “parted it out” where it is cut appart and sold in pieces without the VIN number attached to them. Nothing can be identified, it is sort of like cutting up a ham and selling sandwiches, prove that piece of a ham sandwich was a ham I stole out of your house, can’t do that? Ahhhhhh, too freaking bad, really! What ham? I didn’t steal no freaking ham from you!
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kim frederick says:
Silvermoon, OMG, thank-you, so much for my poem. I only just now saw it, haven’t read but a line or two, but will go back and do so. It’s funny, earlier today I thought of “Uncle
Walty. I was thinking about, “Song of Myself.” Lovely.
I’m not sure if I’ve read, “Song of the Open Road” before but I will now. Thank-you so much for a heart felt gift. ((((hugs))))
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Zen says:
OxDrover,
This story was chilling really and I’m wondering if the man I’m with couldn’t be one as well?
I am certain his ex is and I’ve gone over her behavior. But as I read this it makes me wonder about him. He hasn’t done some of the outrageous things as related in this letter but some of the behaviors are similar. I don’t know what the problem is but I do know this, I need to leave. I am accused as being the one with the problems, I don’t know how to communicate according to him. I have stifled my issues and my feelings more times than not. If I do bring them up he refers to “my almighty feelings”. I have to sit and accusations without any reply I have to listen while he goes on and on and on. There is more of course but I came out of a disfunctional relationship with an alcoholic and I know I have baggage but it can’t be all me, can it? I’m very very upset at the moment not knowing exactly where to turn. Oh well.
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kim frederick says:
Oxy, I read your very encouraging post to me earlier, but as I was finally ready to force myself out the door to (puke) go look for a job, I decided I’d wait to respond.
I can’t thank-you enough for the little boost it offered me, and the feeling that somebody cares. It’s soo hard to make myself go out there, put myself on the line, fight to get a job I don’t even want, all the time wondering what the hell is wrong with me.
It means a lot to get that gentle nudge in the right direction, and to hear a voice say, you can do it you’ll be fine. Thanks soooo much Oxy! Would I be a glutton if I asked for just a little bit of that everyday? ((((hugs))))
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