sociopath, psychopath, con artist, antisocial, con man, bigamist, fraud, sociopathy, psychopathy

I, Psychopath: Watch the documentary online

Monday, 30 November 2009 @ 5:34am • My Weblog

Three years ago, on November 30, 2006, I received an e-mail from Sam Vaknin, Ph.D.

Perhaps you’ve seen Vaknin’s name on the Internet. He wrote and self-published a book called Malignant Self-Love—Narcissism Revisited. He promotes the book heavily online, so if you Google “narcissism,” his website on narcissistic personality disorder comes up on the first page of search results.

Here’s what Vaknin said in his e-mail:

You haven’t responded to my last two e-mails to you. Have I done anything to offend you?

(puzzled)

Take care.

Sam Vaknin

Now, I didn’t remember seeing any e-mails from Sam Vaknin. So I wrote:

Sam,

What emails? I haven’t received anything.

Donna

His reply:

Dear Donna,

I much appreciate your response, thank you.

My e-mail messages to you are probably relegated by your e-mail program to your spam or trash folders.

I wrote to offer to collaborate with you in any way you deem fit. For instance, I can respond to questions about narcissism, or write a short monthly column about the intersection between narcissism and psychopathy.

Here is a list of links which you, the visitors to your Website, and the readers of your (great!) newsletter may find of interest.

His e-mail included 17 links for articles on his website, articles he’s written on other websites, and articles in which he was quoted. The guy seemed to know what he was talking about, so I invited him to send me an article to explain the difference between narcissists and psychopaths. He immediately sent another link to another one of his pages. I read the information and determined that it was poorly written and explained nothing.

So I looked into his background. Right on his homepage was a link to his disclaimer:

The author is NOT A MENTAL HEALTH PROFESSIONAL. The author is certified in Psychological Counseling Techniques by Brainbench.

Brainbench was an organization that offers online business training and assessments. And his Ph.D., according to his own website, was in philosophy. Delving further into his website, I read his page about Narcissists and Women. Here’s what Vaknin wrote about himself:

I am atrabilious, infinitely pessimistic, bad-tempered, paranoid and sadistic in an absent-minded and indifferent manner. My daily routine is a rigmarole of threats, complaints, hurts, eruptions, moodiness and rage. I rail against slights true and imagined. I alienate people. I humiliate them because this is my only weapon against the humiliation of their indifference to me.

Sam Vaknin, it turned out, readily admitted that he was a narcissist. I decided not to publish any of his articles.

Sam, the movie

Now, Sam Vaknin is star of a documentary called I, Psychopath. The documentary followed Sam Vaknin and his wife, Lidija, as Vaknin was examined and tested by experts to determine if he is, indeed, a psychopath.

It is a world first. As we all know, psychopaths don’t think anything is wrong with them and so are unlikely to seek evaluation or treatment. The only ones who are examined are in prison. But Vaknin voluntarily submitted to the process, and it was captured on film.

We see Vaknin take a personality test and be interviewed for the PCL-R (SV) diagnostic tool. Then we see other experts examine his brain in an MRI machine.

Along the way, Vaknin offered some chilling insights. “Most psychopaths are more like poison than a knife,” he said. “And they are more like slow-working poison than cyanide.”

He also explained proper bullying technique—verbally attack, then back off. Attack, then back off. Eventually, he explained, the victim is done in by his or her own stress reactions.

The documentary also addresses Vaknin’s academic “credentials,” which are, not surprisingly, highly exaggerated. (For Vaknin’s response to questions about his qualifications, see his rant about “malicious gossip.”)

Attacking the filmmaker

The film was written and directed by Ian Walker of the Magic Real Picture Company in Australia. Walker offered a first-person narrative through much of the film, describing his observations of Vaknin’s behavior. “Making a movie with a psychopath,” Walker stated, “Is a little like poking a snake with a stick.”

Slowly, Vaknin turned his verbal abuse on Walker. According to the I, Psychopath web page, “By the end, Walker almost calls it quits on his own film rather than spend another day with its main subject.”

I can understand that. Looking back at my e-mail correspondence with Vaknin, I suspect that he never sent two initial e-mails that he claimed I failed to answer. The “have I done anything to offend you?” language was probably contrived to put me on the defensive right away. Classic psychopathic strategy.

If you want a good look at the behavior of a psychopath, and at research about the disorder, watch this documentary.

I, Psychopath on Top Documentary Films.

Thanks to a Lovefraud reader for sending the link for online viewing.

written by Donna Andersen • Permalink •

144 Comments to “I, Psychopath: Watch the documentary online”

  1. LKamienski says:

    This film is very important. Survivors please know that it will likely trigger you.

    I am troubled by the number of people who want to discount the importance of what we can learn from studying Vaknin based on his flimsy credentials. Ironically this argument against him was first given to me by my ex-sociopath. He discounted the possibility that narcissists even exist based on Vaknin’s lack of accredited degrees. It just doesn’t matter if he even has a degree or not.

    What is even more interesting about this film is the glimpse we get into the life of Vaknin’s wife. I highly recommend reading “Women Who Love Psychopaths” by Sandra Brown in conjunction with this film.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Monday, 30 November 2009 @ 11:18am

  2. OxDrover says:

    For all the self-aggrandizing this man does, none-the-less, I know people whose first introduction to Narcissism has been by finding and reading on his site(s) or reading his book.

    While I have the idea that Sam, probably unique among most Ns/Ps, has recognized somehow what is different about him than “normal people” and has uniquely decided to capitalize on it for making a living.

    I think he enjoys his manipulations and seems to have more insight into the disorders than the average disordered person, but it doesn’t mean he has any more connection or empathy than the next N or P—he’s just found a new way, an unfilled niche if you will, to fill and make a buck from it…as well as present himself as this “guru” and in spite of all this aggrandizement of himself, he actually has done some educating of people and made them aware of some things about NPD and PPD. So, bottom line, I think “it is an ill-wind that blows no one good.”

    (Report abusive comment)

    Monday, 30 November 2009 @ 11:44am

  3. style1 says:

    I have read his books, etc. He does offer insights.. you don’t need to be degreed to have awareness and insights… there are many that are degreed that are very ill..

    I met a famous .. actually infamous psychiatrist that told me that most in the mental health profession get into it to heal themselves.. and there are more suicides in this profession than others because they find out that they can’t. This man visited my house when I was a teenager.. he was one of the fathers of the prefrontal lobotomy. He literally messed with peoples brains and he was way off center himself.. so a degress don’t mean all that.. Vakin offers insight.. I look at him as his own lab rat.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Monday, 30 November 2009 @ 12:06pm

  4. justabouthealed says:

    I have to admit that his writing helped me. In particular, his piece about how true love can feel to a narcissist like you are trying to control them and brings out their rage. That made everything really click for me. So I thanked him, and said whatever his intentions, he did help me. He wrote back, but I never answered. Some of his writing is STRANGE and he has served prison time, and I don’t read anything of his now.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Monday, 30 November 2009 @ 12:44pm

  5. style1 says:

    Also, I have a sister that is a psychologist and she is off the charts bizarre in her behavior.. now, she appears, great.. but behind that great for those that know.. she is a mess.. she is the most messed up in our family and she as this facade that she hides behind and dictates from..and her kids, her oldest one especially is a mess.. so just because someone has a degree in this field.. doesn’t mean everything..

    (Report abusive comment)

    Monday, 30 November 2009 @ 12:46pm

  6. OxDrover says:

    Style, Vaknin,’s “degrees” are from an internet “by a degree” program I believe. He has NO real credentials for what he proposes to be, he sets himself up as an educated expert, and he is NOT at all. He is out to make a buck and get NOTICED which is what a narcissistic person does and what they enjoy. He likes to be noticed! Making money out of it is only a side benefit.

    I can’t wait to watch that movie, but my air card won’t do it so will have to find another way to watch it. I have seen a clip or two off it, but i want to watch the whole thing.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Monday, 30 November 2009 @ 12:52pm

  7. Matt says:

    That idiot, Dr Phil, is what — a botanist? Now we’ve got Sam Vankin with his IUDs (internet university degrees, not the birth control device). Is it any wonder people are at times skeptical about the psychiatric profession?

    (Report abusive comment)

    Monday, 30 November 2009 @ 1:17pm

  8. breckgirl says:

    I saw part of this awhile ago but never the whole thing until just now.

    I think the scariest part of this video comes at the end where the doctor does a test and has people walk down a hallway – and just from looking at them walking people who are high in psychopathic tendencies can pick out which one
    makes a good victim. For someone who has been on the receiving end that is very very freaky to know.

    It seriously makes me afraid of my own ability to assess what is safe for me and I want to crawl into a hole and hide and only let a few people in.

    It has made responding to anyone that pays me attention really
    hard to deal with.

    Is this safe? Is this gonna hurt me? Is he playing
    with my head? What does this person want with me?

    The part of the video where the cat is playing with the mouse – made me want to throw up.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Monday, 30 November 2009 @ 1:34pm

  9. style1 says:

    I posted a photo of myself on an internet site yesterday and I have had 200 responses.. and out of that, maybe one that I might have an interest in…in just talking to on the phone..
    And when I look through all these men… it makes me sick to my stomach.. as from what they wrote and who they are, they never even read what I wrote.. I stated NO SMOKING, I AM PHYSICALLY FIT EXPECT THE SAME, and no children in the home.. and this one man with three young kids has sent me 8 emails.. then think of the sociopaths.. it is a disgusting state of humanity..
    Not to sound like a narcissist or that I have delusions of grandeur.. but my sister with the degree is a joke..
    I have more of a handle on how to live than she does.. and have a more successul, morally life..
    she almost lost her license for having an affair with her married client while she was counseling them for marriage…
    So what VAkin does is like a social service,.. I say learn from him…
    there is no one that has all the answers and a degree doesn’t do it.. I have dated and married men with degress from Harvard, Yale, Stanford and so what?

    (Report abusive comment)

    Monday, 30 November 2009 @ 1:49pm

  10. OxDrover says:

    Dear Breck girl,

    It is a scary thing to realize finally that the WORLD is full of PREDATORS, and the ones “out to get us” are disguised as HUMAN.

    Sort of like that series “V” huh? Or 100 other old movies where you can’t tell the REAL humans from the demons or aliens out to get you.

    Fortunately, we are born with “-dar” detectors and what we have to do is to train and hone those skills of discernment.

    In reading the Bible where Jesus was tempted by Satan, I often wondered why Jesus would desire those things and actually be TEMPTED, but I see too that Jesus was as we would have been SCARED of what he faced, knowing what was coming, and ANYthing that might have prevented that oncoming torture would have been tempting.

    I remember when I was about to go into labor for the SECOND time, believe me I DID NOT LOOK FORWARD to it. I would have done about anything to have been able to just “go to sleep” and have that baby come out without pain to me.

    I imagine Jesus felt the same way. I think what the Ps do is to hold out a CARROT to us (theya re good at figuring out what our personal carrot is) and the “stick” is already there….such as (stick) FEAR OF on’t want to spend the rest of my life alone without a person to be my partner and love me. CARROT, I will take care of you and love you and you no longer have to be afraid of being alone and unloved.

    Man o man, that is a POWERFUL CARROT, to overcome a POWERFUL FEAR. The P offers to keep us safe and to love us. Who wouldn’t go for that CARROT rather than face a life time alone.

    So we JUMP at that carrot before we see it is PLASTIC, and then we are hung because they keep that carrot JUST OUT OF REACH and make us dance and lunge but NEVER QUITE get our hads on it. OMG, IT IS SOOO CLOSE WE CAN ALMOST FEEL IT, but what we put up with trying to get to it, but we just know if we jump a little harder next time it will be in our reach.

    The studies done with training dogs to salivate when hearing a bell by ringing a bell then feeding them, the dogs would salivate no matter how many times you rang the bell but did not feed them. They were CONDITIONEd to it. They could’;t help it. that is the exact way I train animals is INTERMITTENT REWARD, and they do not get the reward every time they perform the trick, because if you gave them a reward every time after you stopped they might do the trick once or twice more but they would then say, “well this isn’t working any more” and quit the trick. But if the rewards have been intermittetnt, so intermittent in fact that the reward eventually quits all together, they still continue the behavior because they are CONDITIONED THAT EVENTUALLY THEY WILL GET REWARDED….that’s how a SLOT MACHINE WORKS, you get a few coins every once in a while so you keep on feeding it coins because you are conditioned and expect that NEXT TIME FOR SURE you will get the big reward.

    Humans can be condit8ioned with intermittent rewards just like other mammals.

    Remember when you were potty training your kid, it was a big deal and s/he got a reward for doing it like a big kid, do you still do that? of course not, you were eventually able to quit rewarding your child for “doing it in the pot” and the behavior continued.

    The Ps reward us with “love” ONCE IN A WHILE, but the rest of the time they can beat the crap out of us and we are still wawiting for that reward we just KNOW WILL EVENTUALLY COME IF WE TRY HARD ENOUGH.

    I’m here to tell you folks, intermittent “love” and “respect” is NOT ENOUGH FOR ME. i WANT CONSISTENT BEHAVIOR FROM THOSE IN MY LIFE, so I am not going to “dish out” TRUST like it is candy to everyone I meet, TRUST is going to be earned or not gotten at all.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Monday, 30 November 2009 @ 1:58pm

  11. style1 says:

    I watched a portion of it.. I found him to be arrogant, unattractive, he has hemispheric varitions.. one side of his face is greatly different from the other.. which according to one brain and kinisolgy .. he is conflicted.. duh! He is cold, arrogant and a bully.. nothing about this man is attractive to me…

    but he teaches lots.. false modesty to disarm… love is disposable just things to be used…on and on…
    he is an empty vessle.. learn from him…

    But many artists are perfectists.. and demand perfection and work until they get it right.. and have traits of narcissism but aren’t..
    I mean we all have traits.. and were we not a bit narcisisst, we would be total doormats…
    but the true ones… on see their reflection in others or what they can do for them… so they are disposalbe when their use is up.. like a kleenex…. blow and toss….

    (Report abusive comment)

    Monday, 30 November 2009 @ 2:21pm

  12. one_step_at_a_time says:

    dear oxdrover: powerful post.

    it strongly brought to mind some dharma teachings for me.
    this ‘fear’ would be described as a fear of death in buddhism – not of life ‘unfulfilled’.

    one of the first things i found when i started researching love fraud was a quote that said a scam was a balance of oppostional forces of what one was getting now and being offered in the future.
    I’ll post it when i find it.

    all for now,
    one step

    (Report abusive comment)

    Monday, 30 November 2009 @ 2:22pm

  13. Twice Betrayed says:

    The second book I read on this subject was Sam’s. I ordered the book online-I own it.. I will have to say I learned from this book. I did discard some of it.=did not accept it. To me a lot of it was jumbled ranting kinda like trying to nail jello to the wall or conversing with Bob Dylan. ;) But, also, some of it I did understand and saw in my x’s. It helped give me a foothold into understanding my x’s were nuts just by Sam’s writing, if nothing else. I also had a short interesting email exchange with Sam regarding Christianity…
    *I did not find answers, empathy or validation until I found the book Women Who Love Psychopaths. I carried that book in my purse for two solid years and read it many times daily. It helped pull me thru my days. For me this book was my life line- I literally cried from relief when I first read it.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Monday, 30 November 2009 @ 2:41pm

  14. style1 says:

    The carrot is what is so true.. someday.. when this or that happens then…

    that is what mine did…

    someday never comes…

    (Report abusive comment)

    Monday, 30 November 2009 @ 2:48pm

  15. Elizabeth Conley says:

    I started boycotting Vaknin about the time I realized what he was. As he coyly admitted, his kind are more like poison than any other means of assault.

    I suspected that any dose of Vaknin, no matter how small, was likely to be harmful. Better safe than sorry.

    As much as I admire Donna, I still won’t watch this film.

    Life without cluster Bs is good -> so good!

    (Report abusive comment)

    Monday, 30 November 2009 @ 2:53pm

  16. Twice Betrayed says:

    * the most helpful section I found from Sam’s book that answered a lot of questions I had was :
    Notes to the Table on page 555

    RE: documentary: interesting….some hard to follow, awful music and could do w/o the sensational tone of voice…my take was: paranoia abounds either real or faked…on several levels….and left me with the feeling I had just watched a con con a con-all bad acting and what could everyone hope to benefit from this….

    (Report abusive comment)

    Monday, 30 November 2009 @ 3:28pm

  17. Twice Betrayed says:

    We must all admit a true P knows how to market themselves…..and Sam knows how to spin it….

    (Report abusive comment)

    Monday, 30 November 2009 @ 3:29pm

  18. slimone says:

    As with many of you I also got my initial information about Nism from Mr. V. I downloaded the large e-book, and many selected readings that he offered. I learned alot!

    It was clear to me after reading the book that N/P’s ‘doing good’ in the world in no way balances, or otherwise makes ‘treatable’, or less toxic, their condition. It is painfully true there are countless numbers of these people contributing their particular insights/talents in the world, while they slowly and simultaneously attempt to poison their environment. I hung out with one such ‘do gooder’ and he was as much a LIE as any murderous spathole.

    Sam is no exception. So well put by Oxy that “he’s just found a new way, an unfilled niche if you will, to fill and make a buck from it…as well as present himself as this “guru”.” And the ‘it’ that he makes a buck off of is his deep, dark, devastating emotional/ethical void, and his ability to, at least at first glance, ‘humanize’ himself by sharing and helping.

    But just like all people who are so afflicted, their imagery, in this case ‘helpfulness’ is a lie. Just another con for the end-goal of feeding their addiction to winning the game.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Monday, 30 November 2009 @ 3:39pm

  19. Elizabeth Conley says:

    http://seattletimes.nwsource.c.....cy01m.html

    Which part of “They don’t change.” is so hard for parole boards to comprehend?

    (Report abusive comment)

    Monday, 30 November 2009 @ 3:41pm

  20. Twice Betrayed says:

    Elizabeth: sadly this is some of what the judicial system is feeling in backlash. This guy was only 17 and our then gov took that in consideration apparently as one of the deciding factors on releasing him later. We also just had the convicted killer of beautiful news reporter Anne Pressly spared the death penalty because of sympathy and legal work done.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Monday, 30 November 2009 @ 3:56pm

  21. breckgirl says:

    Oxy thank you for your wonderful response.

    The word discernment is such a fine one to use in this context. I am asking for guidance from God – for good clear direction to be given to me.

    I have asked for my eyes to be opened – I think I need to also ask for the willingness to believe what I see/hear/feel and the power to take the correct action as a result of the knowledge I receive from any potential P’s or S’s or N’s….

    And Elizabeth I started avoiding Sam Vaknin and his information as well. Reading him I started to feel that much of what he wrote for the women and partners of Narcissists was written in a way to make them (us / me) feel like we were intellectually inferior or somehow weak for being capable of love.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Monday, 30 November 2009 @ 4:55pm

  22. JaneSmith says:

    This guy is seeking to make a buck (capitalize as Oxy said) by his own admission of being pathologically personality disordered. How vile and sick is that? And pathetic?

    He seems to thrive on attention, the focus exclusively on him at all times. Doesn’t matter even if it is a repulsed, disgusted focus as long as he is the topic of discussion. As this thread demonstrates.

    But Donna offers it as another tool in our arsenal, more indepth revelation for our own education and self-preservation.

    Psychopaths are not fascinating. Or interesting. We all have realized how predictably boring they are. Dullsville personified once you saturate your brain with their nasty, mean behavior/personality characteristics.

    Sam V. is no exception. He is the antithesis to the sort of person I consider worthy, wonderful and valuable.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Monday, 30 November 2009 @ 5:29pm

  23. OxDrover says:

    Dear TB–Yea, but if you look at the HORROR of the crimes this guy committed at age 17, our then bleeding heart gov doesn’t “get it either”—letting this creep out, and then him committing so MANY OTHER CRIMES including child rape, gosh, killing 4 cops is “nothing” for him! I only hope this kind of thing will make BIG news so those cops will not have died for nothing.

    The bleeding heart gov of AR also released that rapist that had been castrated by some guys before he was convicted on “pity party” reasons, and the guy had only been out a MONTH when he raped and killed another woman!!!

    When will they learn that “correction” of jail doesn’t do anything but give these Ps a Ph.D in crime!??????????

    UHG!!!!! that sound is me grinding my teeth!

    Yes, Sam sets my teeth on eduge too. I started out blogging on a “suvivor site” owned by him. Problem was, some of the “moderators” were TOXIC and if you even said the words “I am a Chrisitian, it helped me survive” you would be privately thretened with being blocked because it “might traumatize someone who had been religiously abused.”

    Then the “coupe e la da gracie” was when Sam Published an article “proving” that Jesus Christ was a NARCISSIST JUST LIKE HIM.

    The article was taken down after I commented on it (you can guess what my comments were!) LOL but the managers and moderators told me if I said ONE MORE word about christianity I would be banned. At the time I was still in the chaos of it all and still living in hiding, and also was (unbeknown to me) fighting the serious infection with the tick fever, so the threat of being banned from the ONLY support I had was devestating to me…but, guess what, the good Lord directed my search engine to LOVE FRAUD….and you know what else, DONNA AIN’T SAM VAKNIN! Can you believe that!? Wow, isn’t that a wonderful thing????Yea Donna!!!

    I have felt welcomed here from the first day, and never went back to that other site.

    So believe me there are abusive sites out there for “survivors” that PREY ON THEIR VULNERABILITY AND WEAKNESS, and I can name several of them. Sam’s is only one where the moderators will flame you, or allow flames from other posters who are just as disordered as the people they CLAIM to be victims of.

    Many of you have seen these pseudo-victims come here and make trouble. for no other purpose than to get a fight started, sort of like Satan attending church, but Satan does have his OWN “churches” out there on the net with people just looking to suck a victiim in while they are down. Sam’s site(s) aren’t the only ones.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Monday, 30 November 2009 @ 5:51pm

  24. pollyannanomore says:

    I watched it quite a while ago at google video – the whole thing is avail there for free for whoever was talking about an air card … Oxy?

    I am quite distrustful of him and he just regurgitates things that other people have written. I find the VOLUME of information on his site overwhelming and arrogant. Similarly he is involved in several forums supposedly for survivors of psychos. There is a section called ask Dr Sam – readers send in an outline of their particular problem and question and all he does is spout out multiple lines of references to HIS OWN sites. I find it enormously arrogant – he doesn’t even address them normally at all – just puts the links.

    I agree watching his wife is more interesting than watching him – she is truly tragic but I recognised myself in her. He is daring her to leave him but she doesn’t seem able. I personally think he is an a**hole who is out to glorify himself. He really doesn’t add to the body of knowledge and in fact confuses it by first proclaiming himself to be a narcissist and then having it found he is in fact a psychopath. Interestingly enough when I first encountered his material that very question ran through my mind
    “How does he know what he is? He hasn’t been professionally screened. He sounds more like a psychopath to me.” I think it was the cold dispassionate way he writes and he also outlined his multiple betrayals of his own family in the past.

    His writing is hardly lucid … most articles repeat themselves over and over again and what he says is not earth shattering – others have said it before. He just has spin on his side. Hope his wife wises up and ditches him before it’s too late!

    (Report abusive comment)

    Monday, 30 November 2009 @ 5:52pm

  25. Twice Betrayed says:

    Oxy: I am upset over the laxness of the judicial system. You are so correct….they don’t get it regarding the p’s among us! I remember when I was 28 years old -a seasoned circuit judge told me….there are some people that are simply evil and they love/live to do evil. I was working on my degree in elementary ed [late- cause I had to get my kids school age=first p hub took a powder]and I was still buying into the environment is THE thing issue….so I was ‘more tolerant’….ugh. Having now graduated from the college of hard knocks…I know this judge was so correct. Tough to get a death sentence any more….the Anne Pressly trial proved that.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Monday, 30 November 2009 @ 7:57pm

  26. Steve Becker, LCSW says:

    Donna, fascinating post….and I’m eager to check out that link/documentary. What a great introduction you provide.
    Steve

    (Report abusive comment)

    Monday, 30 November 2009 @ 8:32pm

  27. teacher123 says:

    I have read some of his online writings as well. He does provide insight into the psyche of a narcissist since he is a self proclaimed one. Much like the documentary provides insight for what it is worth as well. I am taken aback by his grandiosity. Maybe it is because also the psycholgical world keeps telling him how smart he is by mentioning his IQ. There is a fine line between genius and insanity, and isn’t it funny how many of “smartest” among us who flash their Mensa cards are the criminal type? And ironic that many of us viewed as crazy are the truly smart ones? Disturbing too is how he views others as beneath him, and views victims as deserving. Donna mentions his tactic of bullying that he reveals, but that is just one of the many used by them. What may even be more sinister is when they mix- I love you, with I think you are pathetic; I love you, I want to kill you. Not as forthright as bullying then laying off, but equally effective.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Monday, 30 November 2009 @ 8:59pm

  28. henry says:

    I have never read anything this man has written. I think I will pass on viewing this movie. Just reading the above post have set off some trigger’s already. If I want to watch a Narcissist in action I will go visit my mother.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Monday, 30 November 2009 @ 9:46pm

  29. OxDrover says:

    TB–hey, what can I say? Charlie manson didn’t get a death sentence, and so many others as well. Huckaby was ‘conned” on a bunch of the cons he let out on the “recommendation’ of the parole board.

    Hell the parole board was going to (had already approved) my TH-P’s pariole into a HALF WAY HOUSE which is in Arkansas ILLEGAL (Act 679) and his “parole officer” did not even KNOW HE WAS A 3X CONVICTED CHILD RAPIST with 3 separate convictions with 3 separate kids at 3 different times.

    CRIM-IN -IN–EEEEEEEEE????? what does someone have to DO today to get locked up forever? Put to death?

    I am so sick to death of the judical system that seems to think that having a “difficult childhood” means you can kill, rape, destroy, rob and brutalize and the governor or some parole board appointed by the governor will give you a pass because you are “whatever” (fill in the blank here fo ryour ticket to be forgiven by society) What about the VICTIMS.

    Huckabee was on the news tonight and said “I wouldn’t have done it if I could have seen into the future” CRAP does he need a crystal ball to think that a man with 8 major felonies by age 17 including taking a gun to school on up, is going to “reform” because he spent 11 years hoeing cotton at Tucker max?

    This man has been arrested and rearrested multiple times since his release by the gov, and a week or so ago they gave him BAIL on a child rape charge! It isn’t ONLY the gov (thank God he didn’t get elected president) that let this jerk free but also the Judge in Marianna (his home town) who sounded as dumb as a ROCK on the news tonight—”give the po’ boy a nutha chance!—” crap!

    Can you guys tell I am grinding my teeth over this? LOL Bet ya can hear them clear to Australia Gem! OH, BTW Gem, I know you are not homicidal and it was a joke, but believe me on this, I wish I could pull the switch on this guy, I would volunteer to be the executioner—OOps, didn’t give him enough juice, just fried his nose, let’s try again! OOPs, just roasted his toes that time, oh, well, if at first you don’t succeed, try try again and again and again and again! LOL

    Sometimes the injustice and the consequences of people not getting it though is so bad and so many people suffer and lose their lives because of a bunch of bleeding heart liberal “give the po boy anutha chance” crap and people DIE! It does make you want to do something drastic!

    Thanks for letting me vent! (((hugs))))

    (Report abusive comment)

    Monday, 30 November 2009 @ 10:25pm

  30. Twice Betrayed says:

    Oxy: Amen to that….and to top that off….they want to take our right to have firearms away from us! I’ve got a sticker that says: “We support the right of victims to shoot back.”

    (Report abusive comment)

    Monday, 30 November 2009 @ 10:59pm

  31. one_step_at_a_time says:

    why the hell is everyone always telling us to write a book?!!

    I hear it every week. Mind you I heard it before we even knew what my spath was, cause the story just kept getting wilder and wilder.

    I wanna go on Oprah. Then i’ll write a book. bad marketing plan – should be the other way around, but oh well.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Monday, 30 November 2009 @ 11:46pm

  32. anitasee says:

    My two cents on Sam V. is that, like others, in the early stages of discovering what I was up against, I read a lot of his site (the book on line basically) and got some insights, but his approach turned me off.

    He repeatedly creates the impression that the condition that he calls “narcissism” can be modulated, controlled, tweaked, and used appropraitely by the N. When he talks about dealing with an N, he tries to teach how to “manage” them. He referes to his wife in the book, and makes it sound as if they have a “functioning” and stable relationship.

    Bottom line, by saying I am an N and then teaching people how to deal with them, he is doing many people a great disservice.
    He is normalizing the N, and saying basically if we are clever enough and can “get it” we can have a meaningful relationship with an N/P whatever.

    Not the right information for someone involved with one of these creatures.

    The film is creepy, he is creepy, and even though I stopped visiting his site long ago, I felt somehow violated that he poses on line as a source of “help”. It will be interesting to watch how his “career” plays itself out.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Monday, 30 November 2009 @ 11:46pm

  33. lostingrief says:

    sam v.’s book was the first i read; about 10 years ago when i got in touch with an old flame (major narcissist!)who proceeded to devastate me. (strangely, that bastard was the one who prompted me to get back in touch with my old s/p/n lover, who told me ”come back to me. i’ll help you remember what love is all about.”) OMFG!
    and ‘come back’ i did; and y’all know how THAT story ended. i was floored by sam’s temper tantrums … VERY much like the ex-spath. pouty, boyish, obnoxious.
    but what really chilled me was sam’s wife saying, ”he’s the most amazing man i’ve ever known” (paraphrased), and sam’s assertion that ’she’s completely fascinated with my lifestyle.’ OMFG-squared!
    the ex-spath was the shiny disco ball of the world. i was INFINITELY fascinated with how he lived his life — never a doubt, swaggering self-confidence, a forthright way of getting whatEVER he wanted.
    and we, ‘victims’ simply because of our great capacity for sharing, empathy and compassion. made me wonder if i WALK that way, too. now THAT was the creepy part!

    (Report abusive comment)

    Monday, 30 November 2009 @ 11:57pm

  34. pollyannanomore says:

    Lostingrief – hope you don;’t mind but I will be stealing that wonderful expression from you:
    OMFG squared
    LOL
    That just sums it up don’t it?

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 12:24am

  35. swallow says:

    Help from a self confessed Psychopath is about as genuine a paedophile offering to babysit!
    I read a lot of Mr Vaknin’s articles on the MSN Psychopath website when I first needed help and before I truly understood the danger of these personalities. Now, I would advise anyone NOT to communicate on any level with him or anyone else you suspect. As he says, they are a slow way of poisoning yourself and very dangerous.
    Swallow

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 12:24am

  36. blueskies says:

    Although I was tempted to have a look I think I’m with henry on this one.

    I am NC with my mother for a reason, I dont think reading or listening to her pontifications, even if they where some attempt at explaining what she is or why she behaves like she does (like she ever would, and if she did would it be for some kind of advantage/pity/no strings absolution…worthless noise) or studying her selfish and poisonous actions any further will help me heal or be happy, so…I think I will apply this to this Narc too… – tune out.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 12:37am

  37. blueskies says:

    Typo – will NOT.*

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 12:43am

  38. teacher123 says:

    Lostingrief,
    I like the comment about how your ex was the shiny disco ball of the world. That explains how they want to be received just like Dr. Sam (Green Eggs and Ham), and Kim Jong Il, and any other flaming narcissist. Here is a couple of paragraphs that illustrates this principle from Merrill Markoe who is writing about the aforementioned ruler of the world.

    For those of you who don’t obsessively read books on narcissism, as I do, a friend of mine once explained the credo of the narcissist as “I’m the piece of shit the world revolves around.” It is a psychological syndrome in which extreme insecurity finds cover and comfort in self obsession.
    Therefore, every response you make to a petulant, irritable, childish, tantrum-inclined narcissist finds you walking on thin ice. This applies equally to agents, politicians, actors, officious little bureaucrats at Wal Mart and North Korean heads of state. It is the reason why, when one is dealing with a narcissist who is also wielding a nuclear bomb, a little tactical forethought is your best friend.

    It’s important to understand that a narcissist operates out of only two constantly flip-flopping states of emotional being; grandiosity and humiliation. So, if you are not feeding the grandiosity of someone like Kim Jong Il, than you are humiliating him. Period. Those are your choices. That is the part of this equation you can’t change. Out of those two choices, only the grandiose narcissist is a happy narcissist. A humiliated narcissist is a rigid, non-compliant, revenge seeking nightmare.
    I have long sought out the whys of the equation with my “friend”, but maybe this is the conclusion of the matter. They are not happy unless appeased and then if you comply too much then they are not happy with that either as you are too soft, too caring, too close to uncover their lies, or something like that. Sometimes people are like mystery novels that you can’t figure out.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 1:09am

  39. Twice Betrayed says:

    teacher: good post!

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 1:32am

  40. Iwonder says:

    Well, I watched Sam’s video. I bet he just loves all of the attention he is getting.

    What really was scary and mindblowing was the very end of the clip…the part where psychopaths can pickout a victim just by the way a person walks!! Holy SH..!! Perhaps we send off these signals subconsciously and attract them!

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 1:35am

  41. OxDrover says:

    From what I see, sam has done everything he has done, from his Ph.D. which is worth the paper it is printed on, and not a legitimate degree, to give himself the APPEARANCE of being a legitimate university graduate who has studied and truly earned that title, rather than “buying” one. PHONY

    His pointifications and the new words he coins like “inverted narcissist” as well as Donna says, the poor writing quality of his book, and the redundency of it I think would only “impress” someone of lilttle knowledge about these things at all, however that said, if he publicises the concept and then people go on to look for other information (rather than just stop after reading his drivel, he is at least introducing the concepts of personality disorders to people who might not otherwise get the conceopt.

    The blogs that are on the site(s) he owns though are so anti christian, flame ridden, and over all not very helpful compared to what we find here with good information and with a much calmer atmosphere and acceptence of people’s spiritual beliefs and thoughts.

    This is why I have stayed here, because I don’t like dealing with the up tight atmosphere of the vaknin run sites. I know many other former bloggers from there that left for the same reasonsn I did.

    It will be tomorrow before I can watch the show on my son’s faster and better aircard, but I am going to watch it. I’ve heard too much about it not to want to see it. He is creepy though, I’ve see a few short videos of him. SLIMY is the way I would describe him.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 1:45am

  42. Twice Betrayed says:

    No doubt they have very honed animalistic skills. I went to a Halloween party a few weeks back and this guy stuck on me—drunk as all get out, …started with the typical p stuff….but..he could read me [and everyone else there]like a book. I listened to him size up the whole crowd….and I would say he nailed them. I know in less than fifteen minutes he had me sized up correctly and my friend I was with. It was eerie…he was right on the money. As soon as the crowd cleared in front where I could get loose-I left. I thought about it later…how he could peg people like that. My X’s were both that way…paid close attention to body language.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 2:26am

  43. notagain says:

    I just posted a link to this movie on another page. Ive been studying them now. It has helped me to understand how they work, and now I see it coming quick!!! There have been a couple of guys that I got away from quick. I have the same traits as the wife in the movie..very empathetic…already a victim.

    One thing that struck me in the movie, is the test they did with the women walking through the hallway. The psychopath picked out the one who had already been victimized in her life with no problem!!! This has made me look at my own vulnerabilities and decide on how I can change those vulnerable aspects with people I do not know that well.

    1. I tend to disclose too much info. about my self.
    2. I have trouble setting boundaries and sticking to them.
    3. I get sucked in with empathy too quickly.
    4. I tend to make excuses for other people.
    5. I sometimes do not carry myself with enough confidence.
    6. I am way too friendly sometimes, wanting to believe the best about people, and ignoring my own instincts which have always been right!!!
    7. I tend to try and explain myself too much, which is what people like that want you to do. they love it I think. They are getting your attention, and they also know how to explain “you” away, with twisted logic. they size you up when you explain. I really need to learn how to be more of what they call a “B*tch.”

    Those r things I need to work on about myself.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 7:24am

  44. Cat says:

    Like others on here, I am choosing not to watch this documentary at this point in time. I started to watch it and simply could not stand to look at this man. I have not read anything by him, either. I refuse to put a dime in his pocket. JMHO

    notagain, you listed some really great things on your list. It’s a good checklist for a lot of us to consider when looking at oneself. I am particularly looking at #7. I spent more time than I care to think about explaining my actions to others when in reality, it’s no one’s business but mine. Thank you….:-)

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 10:45am

  45. henry says:

    I agree with Cat. I used to be an open book when I met someone that paid me attention or seemed interested in becoming ny friend or what ever. Not anymore.
    I met this guy about a year ago. He came over to visit and we watched a movie. He said ‘ Let me borrow this movie and I will bring it back in a few days’ I kinda hesitated and he said ‘You can trust me’ well weeks go by and not a call. So I emailed him and he replyed with a nasty email “sorry dude I lost it”.. Well I kicked myself in the head and blamed myself for being too nice. So not a word out of this guy until a week or so ago and i get an email ‘ I hope you not mad at me, I would like to see you again, sorry about that dvd. I replyd ‘ Did you see something else of mine you felt intitled to when you were here last? Something else you just want to take? I told him he was a jerk and an asshole and a narcissist…. I was so mad at myself for being so trusting back then,, I am becoming a bitch too….

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 11:18am

  46. ErinBrock says:

    I watched it….but I fell asleep……
    He is creepy looking/acting and his wife…..OMG…..was that ME a few years ago???? Holy crap…..

    In the beginning, his info was mostly the ‘authority’ I came across…..I am a cross referencer, and what I read I found elsewhere……
    I was grateful for the info, but it was flooded on the web…..
    I do have to say…..this I found to be weird….the flooding…..

    The provided info was a catalyst to where I am today……so I feel indifferent towards him……on that level. I guess reading what he says about himself an N…..and the writings and twists….that is what we should expect…..
    I used it as a launch pad……some confused me, some enlightened me.

    I’m learning that S’s are ruling the world…..there is always another group to network off of. ALWAYS!!!!!

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 11:21am

  47. Cat says:

    Henry, so sorry that happened to you but I like your response to him! Still, I wouldn’t put it past him to try again. They are so persistent! Mine would repeat the same question 20 times, over and over, wearing me down to get the answer he wanted.
    I learned that by giving out so much info about myself was also giving others a lot of power, MY power. Knowledge IS power and here I was giving it away freely just because someone was listening. Often, the very things I told others was used against me, with major twists, I might add. No more. I share more on here than with anyone else about my life now.
    Erin, that’s a scary thought, S’s ruling the world, but they DO seem to know others and travel in packs, like wolves.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 11:42am

  48. Rosa says:

    I can’t believe Sam Vaknin had the same butler as Prince Charles!! What a coincidence!! :)

    I also have an announcement to make! I am getting married!! :) :)

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 11:47am

  49. henry says:

    Cat – Thats exactly what happened with my x S…that saying ” He stole my dreams” was so true, I told him everything, what I wanted, etc. well I was ignorant then. In the future someone has to take some effort to find out my dreams and desires.. And btw the dvd I let this other guy ‘borrow’ was BrokeBackMountain, it was very special too me.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 11:52am

  50. henry says:

    Congratulations Rosa~~!!!!

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 11:54am

  51. Rosa says:

    Thank you, Henry.
    The timing could not be more perfect, with the baby coming, and everything. :)

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 11:57am

  52. ErinBrock says:

    Rosa:
    Triplets?

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 11:59am

  53. OxDrover says:

    Dear Henry,

    I don’t blame you for your reply, but I would have suggested that me might come over to give you the copy of the movie of yours he lost, then when he handed it to you, slammed the door in his face.

    Good for you though, no more “mr nice guy” to people who don’t deserve it and have shown you they don’t deserve it. The NERVE OF THE GUY! LOL

    Oh, BTW, if you hear a loud scream coming from my direction it is my X friend showing up at the old storage warehouse and finding nothing left except wet cardboard boxes of wet books, and wet carboard boxes of wet and moldy clothing, and a huge old desk that is under a roof leak and is falling apart, a couple of file cabinets full of mouse nests in old papers, and a few other things of EQUAL VALUE and UTILITY. What a shame its all such a mess, I told him in March and April that the roof was leaking, that windows were broken, and he should get it out by June 1–which he assured me in april that he would do. (that’s the last time I heard from him by e mail, though the reason he said in his last e mail the other day that he didn’t contact me sooner was he had lost my phone number) LOL Maybe he should have quit waiting for my son D or me to volunteer to move it for him with my truck, my fuel and D’s labor. Golly, he should have made other arrangements to keep his stuff protected, dry and secure. No telling what happened to the stuff that was of any value. The local kids have used that old place as a spot to drink beer and smoke dope off and on for years.

    Another reason he said in his e mail that he wasn’t able to contact us by phone is that son D hasn’t answered his phone or returned calls since January 15th, he did fail to mention in his e mail to me, though, that was the date he called and asked D for MORE money when he hadn’t paid back the money he borrowed to buy a car a couple of years ago. D said NO to his request for more money. Wonder if that is the reason D hasn’t been taking his calls? could be.

    Isn’t it amazing how they just can’t understand why we might “still be mad” at them, actually, not mad so much as just not up for any more of their “games”—

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 12:00pm

  54. Rosa says:

    ErinBrock:

    Triplets….Cross your fingers for me!!! :)

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 12:03pm

  55. henry says:

    morning smoxy – Believe me I thot about doing that or worse, I got so pissed at myself for falling for yet another con. I had to just chalk it up as experience. I hope you don’t get moldy in that wet barn.. moldy books are lethal be careful..

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 12:22pm

  56. OxDrover says:

    What did I miss? Rosa, I thought you were already married, I also thought there was as much chance of you having a baby as me having one! What’s the deal here? I am out of the loop and we were all posting at the same time.

    The last time I remember you beingi “preg” was at the time I was “preg”—big joke! What’s the deal LOL scratching head here! Love oxy

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 12:24pm

  57. Cat says:

    Congratulations all the way around!

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 12:25pm

  58. ErinBrock says:

    OMG….OXY’s preggers AGAIN!!!!!!

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 12:29pm

  59. Cat says:

    Henry, we learn as we go. I understand the specialness of any movie that speaks to us and that makes us think. I DO like what Ox had to say. Slam the door? LOL OK, I’m starting to sound like one of them. I also get mad at myself when I fall for something like that after having done it a 1,000 times. I remind myself I’m still learning and hopefully will be for the rest of my life. Don’t beat yourself up.
    Ox, I’m cracking up! I’ve been following your story on the storage shed and the games this one tried to play with you. I have this vision in my head of all this stuff covered in mold and mildew and nothing works. Hey, you did the right stuff and if he doesn’t like it, oh well. I agree that it’s not anger so much as just not being willing to participate in the games. Mine gets REALLY mad about that. When he does try to talk to me, it goes nowhere and the next thing I know, there’s a new nasty rumor popping up about me somewhere. Oh well!

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 12:32pm

  60. witsend says:

    Rosa,
    Are you kidding or are you for real?

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 12:33pm

  61. Rosa says:

    OxDrover:

    Isn’t life crazy???

    It’s such a long story. After we have our babies :) , I will explain it all to you when we take our ass ride cross country.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 12:34pm

  62. Rosa says:

    I am totally kidding right now!!!

    The :) ’s mean I am kidding.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 12:35pm

  63. OxDrover says:

    Okay, gang I will wait til the cross country ride on Fat Ass and Hairy Ass for you to explain! LOL

    I’m done in there, Henry, except I have a guy hired to pull the exterior siding off and told him he can take anything else in there that he wants to. Yea I know mold can be bad, I’m allergic to just about any kind of mold, but got a great respirator filter with like hepta cartridges AND also charcoal filter, it is easier to breathe through than those paper masks (even the good ones) and it fits securely on your face, with a head strap kinid ofthen over the top of your head and around the back. Doesn’t fog up your glasses either. Only about $30 bucks and sure worth it. I got it for wearing for sanding things on the electric belt sander which thows out a fine dust (and some woods are toxic, but none of them are any good in your lungs anyway)

    I’m getting so SAFETY conscious in my old ate it is awful! LOL Quit smoking, wear eye protection in the shop, respirator around mold etc. NC with all the psychopaths, and pack a gun and a skillet to boot! Oh, and I wear one of those velcro/elastic heavy back braces when I am lifting or bending, and “ortho” shoes—can’t think of anything else I might need to protect me unless it would be a “back up mirror” and a bell that rings—LOOK OUT, MOM’S BACKING UP! ROTFLMAO

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 12:42pm

  64. icanseeclearlynow says:

    I very recently (i’ve been one month “free” of him) escaped from a sociopath, narcissist, psychopath, whatever you want to call IT, I prefer to call him the devil or demon, or snake because that’s more fitting to me. Maybe at some point in the distant future, I will get to a place of psychological strength to watch this vileness without vomiting all over the screen, but at the moment, it would send me into a state of near catatonic, nihilist inertia.

    Pure evil, is all I can say and I’ve already been infused with enough of that!!!!!

    I have PTSD and only rare sporadic moments of feeling ANY of the shining strength of my soul that has been nearly destroyed, so there is absolutely no way I could watch this right now. I’ve lived it and it nearly killed me.

    I am so grateful for this site though. I have been coming back here almost daily since I found it, and appreciate the many excellent articles as well as resources and user comments that help me feel less alone with this and validate the indescribable devastation I feel.

    Thank you very much

    p.s. Oh, I am thankful for this article for the heads up on this snakes narcissism web site. It’s good to know the source and be forewarned. Thanks for that.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 12:50pm

  65. henry says:

    Rosa – Your attempt at humor is not funny this early in the day. You should wait till happy hour to pull that crap on us old feeble minded folks. I was scratchin my head too, wonderin ” dang what did I miss?’ anywho ox if you are wearing that ‘get up’ when the old guy shows up I doubt he will give you any problem…reminds me of my precious granddaughter – on thanks giving day she was wearing a cute pink ballarina outfit and carrying a sword..Towanda..~~!

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 12:56pm

  66. one_step_at_a_time says:

    Oxy,
    as i am getting old i htink the one VERY necessary safety devise that I am still resisting, is a bra.
    ;)

    and henry, I have that EXACT outfit!

    one step

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 1:04pm

  67. Rosa says:

    Henry:

    It’s hard for me to stay up in the late night hours with you guys.
    I am more perky in the morning. :)

    I am in the process of putting up my Christmas tree.
    Back to the lights. I hate doing the lights.
    I like putting on the ornaments.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 1:09pm

  68. OxDrover says:

    Dear icanseeclearlynow,

    I’m glad you are here, and I perfectly understand why you would not want to watch this slime bag on video. I don’t blame you at all. I haven’t seen it either, though I did see one short video clip of him, with his wife standing in the background like some sort of kicked dog. Even that short clip made me want to vomit.

    Sam owns I think several sites that he touts his books and writes articles for these suvivor blogs like some sort of GURU. When I first logged on to one in the middle of my chaos and liaterally running for my life, the other bloggers were for the most part helpful and seemed to be caring, but the moderators were viscious if you mentioned anything about a spiritual walk, and I’m not talking about preaching to others, Iam simply saying like stating “I am a christian and that has helped me with my recovery” You would be WARNED and threatened with being banned. I was so out of it at the time, I didn’t realize that his site was not the only one in the world. DUH! But anyway, when it got really NASTY toward me, and also at the time Sam wrote an ARTICLE for the site “Proving” that Jesus was a Narcissist just like SAM! It didn’t stay up long after I was the one person who answered it—you can imagine what my answer was, but I did not stay around long enough to even know if the banned me or not, haven’t been back there since.

    I haven’t even googled that slime bag’s name since either, but I am told by others that he owns several sites besides the one on MSN. I have also privately e mailed several folks I met on that blog (you used to could privately e mail each other but the moderators stopped that from being used so bloggers could not get in touch with each other or “talk about” the moderators’ flaming behaviors behind their backs) but anyway, several other survivors and I e mailed and they told me about other sites. I don’t even now remember where they were and wouldn’t go there any way. I am pretty picky about which sites I will even read, there is so much crap out there. Some good stuff too. As well as OTHER CON ARTISTS posing as “gurus” of healing for their own aggandizment and with about as phony a set of credentials and “exaggerated” CVs, some of them quite “prominent” on the internet. It is a shame, too, but just like Sam (althought these others don’t claim to BE one–I think he has the patent on that gig!) doesn’t keep them from exploiting victims.

    BTW Henry, it is freaking NOON in our time zone, about time for you to WAKE your lazy arse up, don’t you think? LOL (tht’s cause I don’t know how to get the cute little emoticons to pop up!) ROTFLMAO

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 1:11pm

  69. slimone says:

    Welcome Icanseeclearly, and congratulations on your month of freedom. The PTSD can get pretty intense in this early period, and I am glad you have found your way to lovefraud, as I know I have found this site REALLY helpful in keeping me grounded in reality, and feeling validated. Being validated is so important, so that we can stay with what is real, and out of the sick illusion that can drag at our hearts.

    Again, welcome…much healing to you. Slim

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 1:16pm

  70. henry says:

    Icanseeclearlynow – love the name you picked and the song. Welcome. My newest latest term for them is WORM SNAKES..please stick around and post and vent.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 1:17pm

  71. ErinBrock says:

    Henry:
    I LOVE your G. daughter….
    A pink ballerina suit and SWORD!!!!!
    She’ll be okay in life!

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 1:18pm

  72. henry says:

    Ox I wont give you the finger – but i have four fingers raised, it’s called a bouquet !!!!

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 1:20pm

  73. ErinBrock says:

    Icanseeclearly:
    Welcome and congrats on your ‘new vision’.
    There is a lot of support here and great information.
    Once the ‘blinders’ are off it’s amazing how ‘clearly we can see’.
    Great name….and again….Welcome!
    EB

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 1:25pm

  74. witsend says:

    Rosa,
    Love that humor girl…..Good luck with the lights. I usually test them all but end up with one set not working anyways by the time I am done and have to start over. Bah-humbug!

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 1:43pm

  75. ErinBrock says:

    Rosa~enjoy your holiday spirit….

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 1:58pm

  76. OxDrover says:

    Henry,you are a BAAAAAD BOY! BOINK!!!! Now you get out of your bathrobe it’s nearly 1 p.m. I’ve already finished cleaning my office this morning, and washing my sheets, and making my bed. Even washed the dogs other bed, cause when I told him to go get into his bed, he slunk back looking sheepish, so I told him again in a harsh tone of voice, only to get up when he didn’t mind, and realize the CAT was in his bed! LOL He couldn’t get in it, it isn’t big enough for her and him. Bless his heart since she’s come inside to live, shes taken over EVERYTHING that was HIS, including his bed.

    How do you train a cat? ROTFLMAO

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 2:00pm

  77. icanseeclearlynow says:

    Hi OxDrover,

    Thanks for the welcome :)
    All of this information is very good to know ahead of time and I’m grateful for that. So, thank you for sharing your experience and what to look out for. I have been doing some online reading as well and I’m extremely wary of any and all information/websites out there. That is part of the hyper-vigilance, I know, but it is also from a very important lesson I learned and that is the MO of the Ps. They know where to find the hosts (my word instead of victims) and they know all the carrots to dangle. I do not trust anything no matter how legit it looks and anything that sticks out like a red flag, I am outta there!!! The slow poison metaphor is a great one. To me anyway, absorbing ANY of the poison that comes from the Ps is detrimental, no matter how they want to dress it up..a snake is a snake and even so much as exposing myself to it, is not smart IMO.

    Hi slimone,

    Thanks for the congrats. Unfortunately, it took a vicious assault on me for me to finally get it and escape, but I did and that is the important thing :) As for the PTSD it IS bad. I am a wreck. But at least I know why now and have the tools to get better. Yes, this site is helpful in always bringing me out of the sick illusion that drags at our hearts…good way to word it! Thanks for the warm welcome and kind words :)

    Hi henry,

    “WORM SNAKES” ha I love it! I always liked that song too. When I had to pick a name it kind of came to me…it feels right. Thank you for the welcome :)

    Hi ErinBrock,

    Thanks for the welcome Erin. I like your name too :) I suppose my username is quite apropo to the situation.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 2:32pm

  78. henry says:

    Ox I got up at the crack of 8, milked all my chickens and fed the goats. Been burning brush and raking leaves. I just cant resist popping in here now and then to give you something to do…bouquet for you again…..

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 2:35pm

  79. Twice Betrayed says:

    Henry”:on thanks giving day she was wearing a cute pink ballarina outfit and carrying a sword”
    This is just so cute! I am getting a visual on this!!!! Thanks for sharing that…I enjoyed it.
    My little granddaughter [3 years old] wanted a bride outfit at Target–and wanted it on right then….so I got the whole outfit for her and took the tags and paid for it. Put it all on her and she walked over to the play tool aisle [in her veil, dress, high heels and jewelry]and got a jack hammer and started play drilling on the floor! It was an absolute scream! My daughter took her picture, posted it on her face book and titled it: “One of the wedding gifts!” ahahahahaaa!

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 2:44pm

  80. henry says:

    cute~! TB my grand daughter goes golfing with her dad, she is 5 and she is actually pretty good at it..

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 2:49pm

  81. Twice Betrayed says:

    Oxy: how to train a cat-whoa….I had a cat that was sick with an autoimmune disorder and had to remain inside the barn apt the rest of his life [he had been an outside barn kitty]. The vet said to put him on a leash and take him for a daily walk! [ I also had to bathe him twice weekly! I had to wear long protective gloves and it was a nightmare--how many have ever given a 16 lb cat a bath?! The first time I looked like I had been thru a paper shredder!] Anyway, this cat would NOT walk on a leash–he would just flop down and we had to drag him-so the joke was: Has anyone taken the cat for his daily drag? ;) *Sorry off topic….but just a little animal humor for a smile today. :)

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 2:52pm

  82. Twice Betrayed says:

    Hey Henry: She sounds like a cute little character! Thanks for the smiles!

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 2:58pm

  83. henry says:

    My three Dachshunds can train a cat in 3 seconds..

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 2:58pm

  84. henry says:

    speaking of golfing – how many think Wiger Tood’s is a jerk?

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 3:02pm

  85. Twice Betrayed says:

    Henry: I do!!!!! I hear his wife gave him a good workover with his own golf clubs. ;)

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 3:12pm

  86. amber says:

    Henry!! You’re sooo right. The more reports that came out about the Tiger Wood’s thing, I knew something was suspicious. I told my sister a couple days ago before the news suspected it..he got caught cheating and his wife chased him and beat the crap out of him with his golf clubs. Why else would he be leaving his house at 2:30 in the morning on Thanksgiving. And please..as if she pulled him out from the back windows that she broke. She should have beat him more. Cheating piece of S#%*!!

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 3:37pm

  87. henry says:

    even before this ‘car wreck’ I thot he was arrogant and narcish..i hope his wife get’s his ‘balls’ in the divorce

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 3:52pm

  88. witsend says:

    IDK, the one thing I did respect about Tiger before was that he was pretty “boaring” as far as staying out of the press spotlight. He has said as much. That he lives a pretty low key private life and it wasn’t very exciting for the press to follow.
    His private life WAS pretty low key up until now. LOL.

    It is always interesting how people interpret things differently once the press gets ahold of the situation.

    I wonder if his wife gave him a concussion (with his own golf clubs) and that is how he slammed into a fire hydrant (?) tree(?)….

    My older son loves Tiger Woods. He is an avid golfer. I will have to pick his brain and see what he thinks about all of this.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 3:57pm

  89. Stayingsane says:

    I wonder would a psychopath make a good golfer? mmmh

    So back to this ‘I psychopath’ movie and Sam.
    Where it became interesting for me was when he became abusive, frustrated because things were not going his way

    “you are an idiot. I do not punish you, you are inconsequential, I manipulate you into doing the film I want to do”

    I saw the hunched over figure of the film maker as he said inconsequential and I felt the familiar chill…

    .I really know how inconsequential I was to the P…it’s a chilling moment when you sense with every fibre of human being that this “person” really could not care less about you and you are merely a means to an end….Its when in shock, I played along with him, I was so scared he could actually obliterate me rather than face his wrong doings, I agreed and became mallable just so I could escape.

    He called his wife…Mallable, thats’s what they need a blank slate to write on..yet she stays…(???!!!???)

    The beauty of it is for me…I would rather die than end up with a guy like Sam. He is gut wrenchingly boring, loveless and unyielding.

    His wife has been attracted and possibly addicted to his lack of empathy because she despises her own emotionality?? she is cynical about finding love and instead she found Sam….she has a robot like presence, Dr Spock logic and its clear too me she aspires to be more like him than the other way around….PLEASE LYDIA DO NOT HAVE A BABY WITH HIM

    its educational. I think it’s important P’s get to be observed , filmed, interviewed and quintessentially nailed….so that we the general first hand experiencers of P’s can say in an opratic chorus “WE TOLD YOU SO” and as for Sam? who cares…..anyone?

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 4:12pm

  90. easp says:

    Thank you once again Donna, for the post. It makes me even more
    grateful that the sociopath/psychopath is out of my live.
    my live is so much better, I am moving on and have the help of my dear friends to do that. I have learned that my friends of many years are the best thing. I am not interested in meeting another man, as I am having far more fun with my friends and family.
    I have learned to to value my freedom and peace.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 4:28pm

  91. OxDrover says:

    Guys, guys, GUYS!!! The evidence is not all in yet, we don’t know if the glove fits! Makes me wonder though if the crash wasn’t caused by him swerving to miss her and he hit the tree and then she bashed on the “back window” to “get him out” LOL MEOOOOOOWWWW!!! We are starting to sound like a bunch of cats fighting! Besides, it isn’t right for her to pound on him with or without golf clubs, she should just be a lady and rip him for every dime he is worth! Then thumb her nose at him and marry her then-rich attorney—hey, MATT, WANNA JOB? Maybe you wouldn’t have to marry her, just take the job on contengency and get 40% of her settlement! ha ha

    Yea, I’ve had calves I had to take for a drag behind the donkey or the tractor to teach them to lead. I thought one of them was going to wear her feet off to the knees dragging them straight out front like a balking donkey! Funny!

    Thanks for the FLOWERS HENRY! I know you love me, but it isn’t even valentines day yet! ROTFLMAO you BAAAAD BOY!

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 4:29pm

  92. Twice Betrayed says:

    Oxy: I read it in the National Enquirer so it must be true. :)

    I don’t advocate violence buuuuut…..she let her emotions get the better of her…..she obviously loves him—I’ve been there….I can relate. I forgive her. :)

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 4:40pm

  93. OxDrover says:

    Well, if beating someone about the head and shoulders with a golf club means she “obviously loves him” then I think we had better have a “heart to heart talk” Witsend…cause that means OJ was REALLY in love with Nichole!

    Seriously, Unless she was DEFENDING herself I think she was out of line, and I don’t think chasing a car down with a golf club means she is handling things well, BUT we don’t know the entire story, and may not ever know the REAL TRUTH just the he said-she said part tht the Enquirer will publish.

    I am suprised though that if they were having so much trouble he managed to keep it out of the press til now. I had actually never seen a photo of her before lately I happened to be watching the national news (I don’t watch the “star reports” as I could give a rat’s behind what most of those flakes are doing or who they are doing).

    I have also “acted” out inappropriately when I was angry, but fortunately not to that extent and it sure didn’t make the national news, that is a good thing.

    You know it is going to be a BAD DAY when the National Enquirer is on your door step, or at your gated entrance at least. LOL

    Believe me when I tell you the NEWS MEDIA can be awful, and I won’t even go into how they hounded me when my husband was in the plane crash, it was the top story for the state that night. I even screamed at one reporter over the phone, “My husband just burned to death, are you some kind of sadist that you won’t leave me alone?”

    When a truck crashed near here a few years ago and was on fire, the rescue workers were blasted by the prop wash of a news helicopter that hovered over the huge fire blowing the fire down on the rescue workers. The helicopter pilot lost his license and the news agency got their hand slapped. It was unbelieveable to me. STUPID. I can’t imagine what it must be like to be famous and live in the lime light with the press hounding you every minute.

    All I can say is that if he is having an affair, I do have empathy for the wife and I do hope that she gets some help, because if she is that enraged, she does need some help. Maybe she will show up here when SHE WRITES THE BOOK! don’t you know that one will sell!?!

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 5:00pm

  94. Twice Betrayed says:

    Oxy: I believe there is a difference between her reaction and OJ Simpson’s! I have been overcome by betrayal to the point of ‘losing control’ some but not to the point of OJ Simpson brutality!!!! I was broken hearted and seriously angered by the betrayal and very young at the time. While I did not connect with the plate I hurled I could have easily….

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 5:15pm

  95. Twice Betrayed says:

    * I mean good heavens we cannot all just say: “Oh, dear, here he comes home to me…at whatever hour-I have our two kids…one less than a year old….and he has been in the news screwing around with some less than moral female—so I think I will just call a lawyer and neuter him financially. hmmmm….oh well. * we are enraged and dang well should be. I think things certainly got out of hand…but they were out of hand when he made that morally irresponsible decision. As I said before….I do not advocate violence and I don’t think this was the really correct way to handle it but I DO UNDERSTAND!

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 5:20pm

  96. witsend says:

    Oxy,
    I’m NOT the one who is throwing him to the wolves….I personally don’t know if she hit him with the clubs or not. That is the word out there. I was poking fun at the press not believing the hype…. It is all speculation at this point.

    I really don’t like how people MAKE UP their own minds what happened. Without really knowing the facts…

    AND by God if you read it in the national enquirer that doesn’t mean it is true! THEY PAY for stories. That is “encouragement” for people to make up stuff.

    I have just read that the woman who he is supposidly having the affair with has made a statement that it is untrue. But this isn’t national news yet because it isn’t as much fun as speculation to the press.

    I think the press sucks when they specualte what happened. They should be reporting FACTS but there is more $$$ in hype stories.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 5:29pm

  97. Twice Betrayed says:

    I believe most everyone took this way out of the intended context. It started as a light joke and just got blown way out there. The comment on the National Enquirer was a joke…note the smiley face. I was only saying if all this is true-then I could relate to her overwhelming emotions. I will no longer contribute to this…it’s become hostile and nonproductive. If anything I said was misunderstood or misconstrued…my apologies.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 5:44pm

  98. witsend says:

    Twicebetrayed,
    I am sorry my comment about the National E. was not directed at you….I really hope you didn’t think I was singling you out. I didn’t EVEN realize that YOU had commented on the National E…..I had just finished reading an article about the woman who supposidly had the affair with him and her statement and she was “trashing” the National E.

    My remark (about the paper) was in referance to her statement.

    I certainly wouldn’t want you to think it was directed at you….Sorry :(

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 5:53pm

  99. OxDrover says:

    Dear Wits, I also was kidding as well, but got to the point where I said, “seriously” about the hitting him with the clubs, IF she did it, the thing is that unless someone is really in danger I don’t think they should physically strike out, my conclusion was about her “acting like a lady” and taking all his money and then “marrying ” the attorney, and then asked if Matt wanted the job…but he might be able to NOT marry her. Since Matt is gay, and an attorney, I thiought it would be obvious I was kidding about THAT too.

    Holpe I didn’t offend you, no offense intetnded. Peace. ((hugs))) And yes, the “new” is more often MADE than reported.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 6:06pm

  100. JaneSmith says:

    I’m almost positive that it was the adorable, lovable Henry who recommended the book by Lundy Bancroft, “Why does he do that? Inside the minds of angry and controlling men.”

    Thank you so much, Mr. Sweety for suggesting this book. It is by far one of the most informative readings on the subject of abusive men. I’m more than half way through reading it but I’ve already learned so darn much.

    I have to put it down sometimes and switch to my beloved Sci-Fi, Fantasy adventure because the content, the recorded comments of the abusive men and their partners elicits some mighty fury in me. On a personal level, of course, but from a compassionate viewpoint directed to the victimized women.

    I consider it a must read for all of us who have had the misfortune of loving and caring for abusive, controlling mates.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 6:13pm

  101. henry says:

    Janie I have recommended that book and a few others, but not sure if I recommended it to you or not. Your always so sweet. Actually I am kinda sorry I brought up Mr. Woody, I will refrain from gossiping in the future.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 6:22pm

  102. witsend says:

    Oxy,
    Heavens no you didn’t offend me! Lol….
    I had to reread what I had posted and wasn’t sure if it looked as if I was throwing him to the wolves as well and giving his wife a high five for bashing him with his own clubs… LOL….

    She has never stated that she hit him with the clubs nor has he? Nor have the police. That is just the “story” that is out there.

    I really don’t like when storys get so blown out of proportion by the press and the public.
    I think peoples lives can be ruined by something like this.

    Everyone has an opinion and is entitled to it. This is true.
    But it is kind of like that kindergarden circle where the secret is whispered around the circle and by the time it gets to the last person it is so different than what was first told.

    The press shouldn’t be telling storys or their OPINIONS. They should be reporting facts. If they don’t know the facts I guess they shouldn’t say anything at all. Because they get paid to do what they do I think they have that moral obligation.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 6:26pm

  103. henry says:

    Wit – Are you calling me a kindergardener? Sheesh , beside’s Oxy doesn’t hit you with golf club she pulls out here cast IRON

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 6:35pm

  104. witsend says:

    Henry,
    I TALK to myself online! What the heck do I know???? LOL

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 7:14pm

  105. skylar says:

    JaneSmith,
    I was the one who recommended that book. I’m glad you found it useful, but I haven’t had a chance to read it yet!!!

    I was told it was good and I have it being reserved at the library so I’m looking forward to getting it, if I ever have time.

    Can you tell me a little about the topics it addresses?

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 8:49pm

  106. slimone says:

    Icanseeclearlynow,

    I am sorry to hear that you were assaulted. I hope you don’t feel too much self condemnation when you say it ‘took’ an assault to get you moving. Because whether physical, emotional, or spiritual we were all assaulted….it is the nature of the ugly beasts we fought with. It is no shame. We tried to love liars. And it took whatever it took for each of us to see the truth.

    If you don’t mind a suggestion: read everything you can on this site. Dig into the archived material. I say this because it can be really grounding and soothing, via empowering information and validation. Each author has a wonderful angle, and gift.

    Much love and healing to you….

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 9:20pm

  107. icanseeclearlynow says:

    slimone:
    I do feel self condemnation. I feel it with every fiber of my being and I feel it especially painfully whenever I look at my kids. It’s jarring beyond words to come out of a suffocating fog and realize just how destroying it was… and that I stayed and actually believed it!! :( Yes, the emotional abuse, mental, spiritual, intimate and verbal abuse…it’s all assault…it’s like a rape of my soul…my “Self”, my very being and essence that makes me, me has been violated.

    Yes, it took what it took for me to see the truth and I am trying to allow for that. Presently, however all I can feel is utter shame and self repugnance.

    A very good friend of mine, whom I haven’t seen in quite some (lives a couple states away), wrote this to me yesterday. This friend had not seen me since before my relationship with the snake.

    “When I saw the pic of you from Halloween that you posted, I thought, had I seen that pic without knowing anything else that had happened I would have thought something was wrong. In that picture you look wan, battered, defeated. The light that is normally in your eyes had faded. But you will return to the —— I know and love soon, it will just take time. :-) ”

    I have been digging into the archives. I have been reading Kathleen Hawk’s multi-part weblog on healing. Thank you so much for the suggestion and warm wishes :)

    (Report abusive comment)

    Wednesday, 2 December 2009 @ 12:15am

  108. peterd says:

    Sam V. by being a narcissist/psychopath is a valuable source of information on the way his brain works. I have been able to recreate his “mental landscape” by reading his book and there is a lot to learn from it. On the other hand Sam couldn’t so far heal his own disease. Honestly I would hear from a psychopath who actually got healed or healed himself. By that I mean a psychopath who stopped any form of abuse permanently. Does such a person exist at all?

    Due to being a psychopath, Sam is be even less capable of solving problems of others. He does not know what should be the end result of processing the trauma, nor he realizes normal brain functioning. In that respect he is like a blind guide. There is a difference between knowing the disease and knowing the cure for the disease. We know a lot from him about the disease, but not about the cure.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Wednesday, 2 December 2009 @ 12:54am

  109. geminigirl says:

    Darling witty, No, you are NOT a retard, LOL! Its actually a wonder we are still relatively sane and have more than one functioning brain cell left with all weve been through!Your doin great, Gal!! We are all human and we may not be where wed like to be but we sure arent where we were!!! And were on our way!! Cheers! Towanda!! and {{HUGS!!}} your fellow semi retard, gem.XX

    (Report abusive comment)

    Wednesday, 2 December 2009 @ 4:29am

  110. slimone says:

    Icanseeclearlynow,

    ((((HUGS))))). I understand the feelings you are having and I also know they WILL pass, with time, they will ebb. I have heard from other people with children how difficult it is to look at their kids and know they were affected by the experience too. If it helps at all ICSCN, we all understand here. We have all neglected so much during our experience.

    I can relate to what your friend said about the picture of you. My friends, who I became increasingly alienated from, said, by the end, I looked like a ‘ghost’. I had lost 10lbs, which on my small frame, left me overly thin and fragile. I was pale, with a sad, sad, sad look on my face, and jittery. Couldn’t eat, sleep, or sit still. But didn’t want to move. I spent hours lying on the couch or in my bed, just ‘being’. Just getting through to the next moment, waiting/processing/talking to myself, to him. I wrote alot too. And then burned what I wrote, as a way of letting go.

    Two things, and I really hope I am not sounding ‘preachy’ here, but two things that helped me were getting massage, and being in hot water (the GOOD kind, real warm soothing water!). I found a massage therapist that didn’t mind if I cried the entire massage, and it was such a relief to be able to do that.

    It has been over two years of healing for me and I am somewhere I could only imagine. On the outside my life doesn’t look too much different. On the inside the change, not only ‘back to my old self’, is very new. My awareness and application of boundaries, what it means to take care of my own needs first, and not being overly worried about being liked, and knowing I won’t abandon MYSELF again……these are some of the real changes for me.

    It does change us, permanently. And, not to give the spathole credit, but just the experience has changed me in ways that I like. I feel more reliable and solid now. I still love, still feel joy, am silly and giving. But I am also more mature, ‘there’ for myself, able to believe that I will stick by myself in thick and thin.

    I hope this buoys you a little…….

    Take good care….slim

    (Report abusive comment)

    Wednesday, 2 December 2009 @ 10:51am

  111. OxDrover says:

    peterd,

    You bring up an interesting concept.

    I have read quite a bit of Sam’s writings, which sound like they were written mostly for a 6th grade level, also they sound “stilted”—just like, guess what? HE DOESN’T GET IT.

    I also think that VERY little of what he writes is his own writing, but paraphrasing of others writing. He also “makes up” terms like “inverted narcissist” for a concept I can’t quite get.

    You are right, he has NO way to feel empathy for anyone and no way to even know what the emotions we have “feel like”–so how could he even BE insightful to write these things on his own. He has taken the ideas of others, reworded them, claimed to have figured this out on his own (yea right) BLIND GUIDE is a perfect term for him. He is blind to everything that matters to a human being.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Wednesday, 2 December 2009 @ 11:16am

  112. hairellen says:

    HI all! I have been here all long reading your posts. Five years before (mine (P) left me, thank g-d!) I had posted and sounded like some crazy woman…well I was crazy!
    But I just have to say this: HOw elfin (happy holidays everyone) scarey about the tilt of a victims head or how she walks! I don’t know about you all, but I definately have been more “thinking” about the way I walk and how I carry myself! That film was a wake up call to me…I picked the girl w/ the victim walk out also…looked like how I walk! SCAREY! Right?

    (Report abusive comment)

    Wednesday, 2 December 2009 @ 11:30am

  113. Cat says:

    Welcome, icanseeclearlynow to a wonderful healing place. I have been on here just a few weeks and have learned so much! All of those on here are extremely kind and caring. I send you healing prayers and hugs…
    This will change you and I think you’ll be surprised. It’s been a short while for me as well, but I LOVE where I’m at. Sometimes my days aren’t so great, but they are MY days and that slimeball is out of them. I know how it is with kids. I have a young son who seems to have grown up far too quickly because of what he’s seen, but I can’t change that. I can only try to use what has happened as a learning tool, for myself and he as well.
    Slimone, I can’t imagine yet where you are today, but I have stirrings and glimpses and I like what I see!
    Henry, how are you today? I know you’ve had some not so hot days lately.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Wednesday, 2 December 2009 @ 11:39am

  114. OxDrover says:

    Hi, ellen, glad you are still around! I have’t seen the vid yet, but will try to watch it ion my sons computer tonight, my air card is too slow.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Wednesday, 2 December 2009 @ 11:39am

  115. to innocent to know says:

    I watched to Sam V. I, Psyco yesterday early morning. He reminded me a lot of my ex P/P/BPD BF. Something someone in here said about his face not being even,struck me. My ex’s face was off center also, maybe there’s something to that, I’ll have to look into it. Maybe there’s a way we can tell who they are also!

    (Report abusive comment)

    Wednesday, 2 December 2009 @ 12:54pm

  116. style1 says:

    Reading and reading on here.. and I see my ex more and more clearly… how he was setting up everything just as he wanted.. it.. telling me what a god role model that I would be for his daughter..
    Then I responded that I like kids but mother is not what I want to be.. and he ignored me.. he had in his mind what he wanted .. he never heard me.. then when I met his emotionally bizarre daughter..she threw a fit not long after tellling me that she was moliested by her mother.. and I told him that this was too much for me …
    He told me ‘I’ ruined what was going so perfectly..
    TADA… I am getting in on deeper and deeper levels..
    Perfect for him.. had nothing to do with me and my wants…

    (Report abusive comment)

    Wednesday, 2 December 2009 @ 1:02pm

  117. icanseeclearlynow says:

    Hi slimone:
    it’s like a beacon to me to read that you’ve been thru what i’m going thru and have gotten past it stronger (you and so many others on here)..so thank you very much
    i’m having a bad day today..did not sleep well last night and i think i’m getting kind of triggered by this “victim walk” thing. I haven’t watched the vid and I won’t, but it’s bringing up things my exP said to me quite a few times and sending me into a bad state
    I am so thankful I booked a massage for myself…I am going this afternoon and have been looking forward to it for 2 weeks now..I have not done anything like that for myself in way too long…I agree warm baths are very soothing
    i know this post is rambling but just want to say you did buoy me :)

    Hi Cat,
    thank you for the healing prayers and hugs…you make a good positive point about having our days be OUR days…even if they are hard…it’s time for me now

    (Report abusive comment)

    Wednesday, 2 December 2009 @ 1:28pm

  118. JaneSmith says:

    Skylar,

    I didn’t see the post where you recommended Lundy Bancroft’s informative book. Henry had mentioned it months ago, maybe even a year ago and I selected if for my wish list on Amazon. Just bought it a few weeks ago.

    I must say, that I don’t think I can recommend this book to those of you who are suffering severe heartache, betrayal, despair as it will trigger immense fury for the hyper-sensitive. And maybe even more sadness, disenchantment, depression.

    I am very much healed from past abusive relationships, strong and confident in my own personal power, self worth and I was more than furious while reading it.

    I was a bit shocked by it’s triggering effect on me, but there are many experiences that you cannot forget. Or shouldn’t forget to protect yourself from further, future predation, exploitation.

    Henry was very brave to tackle this book while he was still reeling from heartache and deception dished out by his ex. I commend him wholeheartedly for his courage.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Wednesday, 2 December 2009 @ 3:20pm

  119. skylar says:

    JaneSmith,
    thanks for that feedback on the book. Sometimes it helps to be ready for a trigger, so I will expect it when I read the book. I had thought I was “over” my triggers, but I’m finding myself experiencing my PTSD quite strongly right now. (Could be just from my cold).

    From the review
    http://www.amazon.com/Why-Does.....0425191656

    It seems like an important book to read for anyone who is considering another relationship after the P.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Wednesday, 2 December 2009 @ 5:31pm

  120. OxDrover says:

    I finally got to watch the video (borrowed my sons verison air card—wow, so much faster andbetter than my AT&T one, but it does have a 5 gig limit per month, but he doesn’t even use that much, so I may have to change carriers….

    The things that AMAZED ME were 1) the “victim walk” I picked out the right one, but couldn’t tell you WHY. When they pointed out how she walked differently, I could see it, but still don’t know why that signaled to me that she was a potential or former victim.
    2) the scan of the brains of both Sam and his wife, and her controlling her emotions, but he not only couldn’t do it, but couldn’t apparently be TAUGHT to. ???????? I can see how she was “normal” (though highly caught up in DENIAL, and I don’t mean a river in Egypt!)

    I noticed too that the man who was narrating the film, mentioned that Sam was bullying him but would always do it with the CAMERA off. Interesting.

    Also the fit that Sam threw over being questioned about his credentials was laughable and SO TYPICAL of a P.

    I personanlly was suprised that his total score was ONLY 18, I figured it would be much higher, 20+ maybe 25+ but I could also see that he was VERY highly narcissistic. I know that not all Ns are also Ps, and every P is an N (to some degree) but it seems like some high level Ps are also very highly N as well, and I have known some people I would “bet the farm” are high Ps but LOW on the N scale if you use the outgoing bragadocio of Sam as a yard stick. If that makes any sense. My P-sperm donor was a BIG braggart, worse by far than Sam, but also very violent as a P–up to and including murder. My P son is also a very Narcissistic person and braggart as well.

    Interesting film, and actually, I wasn’t triggered at all by it, though like the film maker, I was mildly irritated by Sam, but just “eye rolling irritation” not tooth grinding.

    I did feel sorry for Sam’s wife, and the apparent delusions she harbors that he loves her, but that is her choice.

    Very interesting film, and I am glad that they made it. Glad I saw it actually as I have been very curious for the past several months since I heard about the film.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Wednesday, 2 December 2009 @ 7:28pm

  121. henry says:

    Dear Cat – I have been doing very well. Like you this place really helped me understand personality traits that are predatory and exploitive. In the process of figuring out about them I learned so much about why I am the way I am. The encounter with the worm snake brought about a huge awareness for me. I looked at my life and the people in it and cleaned house. We will all have bad days, sad things to deal with, that is life. But I can continue with some peace of mind now that wasn’t there before the worm..The past few days I have been kinda out of line on the blog, but i had a blast. I hope I didnt offend anyone. I have been here for almost two years, I am kinda like the house pest, just ignore me when I get silly. I just try to add some humor from time to time.
    I was telling a friend today that I am so glad I am at a place in my life and age where I dont have that nagging need to find some one to complete me. Maybe I have become jaded or resigned to living a single life. I have alot of good family and friends, a home, three pooches.. I ama lucky man…

    (Report abusive comment)

    Wednesday, 2 December 2009 @ 7:51pm

  122. to innocent to know says:

    OXY,
    Too I did not get triggered by it, it just reminded me a lot of my ex. I thought it brought out a lot of god points and gave us something to look at. I also did not get the walk, but apparently we have it or they could not spot us so easily, remember they are into body language.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Wednesday, 2 December 2009 @ 9:30pm

  123. to innocent to know says:

    I too, am into body language, but appartently not to the extent they are. I think they figure out our feelings by it.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Wednesday, 2 December 2009 @ 9:32pm

  124. to innocent to know says:

    My ex used to say that he liked everything natural, my hair color, everything. I used to get my nails done, it made me feel good about myself, quit because of him. Let my hair grow out and even though I did not feel comfortable, did it because of him. He didn’t like musicals, I love a few of them, quit watching them. We watched basically what he wanted to watch on tv. When I said something about how he controls the remote, he got defensive.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Wednesday, 2 December 2009 @ 9:38pm

  125. to innocent to know says:

    good points is what I meant in the earlier blog

    (Report abusive comment)

    Wednesday, 2 December 2009 @ 9:42pm

  126. dsch says:

    [I personanlly was suprised that his total score was ONLY 18, I figured it would be much higher, 20+ maybe 25+]

    They didn’t use PCL-R, which has a maximum score of 40 in testing him. They used PCL-SV, which has a maximum score of 24. So 18/24 is actually high enough to get the psychopath label, it is roughly quivalent to 30/40 in PCL-R.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Wednesday, 2 December 2009 @ 9:58pm

  127. one_step_at_a_time says:

    slimone,

    ‘the sick illusion that can drag at our hearts’

    thank you for this…now i have a phrase for that experience. :(

    best,
    one step

    (Report abusive comment)

    Wednesday, 2 December 2009 @ 10:46pm

  128. one_step_at_a_time says:

    hi stayingsane,

    ‘possibly addicted to his lack of empathy ‘ hmmm, this strikes some sort of chord in me – lackof empathy in my family, me trying to prove i am worhty…run like a rat on a wheel.

    even though my spath was set up as the most empathetic of creatures (esp amongst the other sockpuupets my spath was pretending to be)
    but ‘he’ wasn’t really empathetic at all. there was somtehing there, but not real empathy. seemed more disturbed by the problems and vagaries of music and hollywood stars, than the real folks.

    best,
    one step

    (Report abusive comment)

    Wednesday, 2 December 2009 @ 10:50pm

  129. Stayingsane says:

    one step at a time

    Addicted to the possibility of getting something sometime but it never happens but you still hope and have your little dish held up looking for a crumb…..but you end up walking away with nothing devastated yet again.
    You are not alone. I think I know what you mean, it’s terrible….yes I think you are right it’s set up by the lack of empathy in your family, you get used to looking for something that does not exist, if you got it by he way would you know what to do with it?
    my parents would cry about things that would happen in Hollywood and the news but when I cried they ignored me. I just was ashamed of feeling sad. Still am. So there. there is the weakness the P can hook onto.
    I was searching for someone who loved me unconditionally and that’s what he acted out and because I do not know what real love is….and what it feels like I believed this P’s version of it….I do not believe someone who got the real version of unconditional love would tolerate a P for 5 minutes. But I know more about it now , and that’s good.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Friday, 4 December 2009 @ 5:11pm

  130. one_step_at_a_time says:

    stayingsane,

    I would know what to do with it. I have gotten and given it to friends and animal my whole life.

    ashamed of feeling sad -hmmm, will think on that one.

    I am ashamed of the mess my life is in. deeply. and not having the resources to get out of it. My anxiety is through the roof. I see the desire to act out against myself coming up.

    my downstairs neighbour, whose pot/cig smoking and compulsive spraying of febrreze is sending my chemical load over the edge, confronted me early this am about a lettter written to him about the smoke. it was unsigned – and he is systematically picking on the women in the building and accusing them of writing the letter.

    he is a douchebag (my neighbor’s name for him….sigh she’s said it so many times now, it’s seeped into my mind). all slimey and smarmy – said he ‘got my letter’. told him i didn’t send the fucking letter. said he COOULD tell by my repsponse that I did. I said no, I am just sick of your douchebag behaviour. He kept at and I kept lobbing it back. fuckwad. I wish I would have said MORE. Wasn’t calm enough to use any of my newly understood spath gaslighting – but he sure did.

    I have never been so angry and scared in life. (not of him – he is an idiot bully – I was putting gardening stuff away and had BRICKS in my hand. Um dude?) I am scared of my lack of resources, scared about my health and financial situation and how difficult i find difficult situations.

    arggh, not helpign to write here – am aware that my anger levels are very high and i feel very isolated. just know that i am so much more than this. and i need to both sort it and forgive myself this horrible situation that i don’t seem able to fix.
    i am in survival mode. there is flight. and there is fight.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Saturday, 5 December 2009 @ 10:42am

  131. Stayingsane says:

    anger levels high is normal. Of course anger levels are high. Be understanding of yourself. Have no shame about asking for help. Ask for support. Help. guidance and it will be showered on you. We have all been through shameful messes, felt anxiety and self hatred but if you can just stay here and vent, and let it out I won’t judge you and I wont abandon you whether you come back or not, or believe in human beings anymore or not…take a risk and just be yourself whatever that is. I hear you.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Saturday, 5 December 2009 @ 2:58pm

  132. sotired says:

    I like this: Passing along from Kathleen Hawk’s blogs.

    We thought we were brave, but I’ve come to think it’s braver to face the truth. Which, in our case, was a dance of the walking wounded. Facing truth can take romance out of a story, but facts may be more nourishing. Truth may lead to spontaneous forgiveness, as I forgave my old boyfriend and my mother. It also can show us that we did the best we could. We see the burdens we are carrying and the innocent and good soul who is trying to bear them.

    Blaming ourselves is a function of anger. Realizing that we are not perfect, that we live with handicaps, is part of grieving and letting go. Facing it doesn’t mean we give up trying to heal. And forgiveness has nothing to do, ultimately, with the people we are forgiving. It is a choice of what we want to care about, what burdens we decide not to carry. Being mad at a sociopath for being a sociopath and exploiting or hurting us is like hating the sun for shining and giving us sunburn. Facing reality empowers us to deal with it. Wear sunscreen. Trust conditionally.

    The best reason to invest in healing from unresolved trauma is because it is crippling. It blocks our ability to mature through experience. It constricts personality structure with fear-based blinders and self-limiting rules that should only be interim strategies, rough protections until we see through what happened. The more we understand the confluence of events, most of which had nothing to do with us, the more trauma tends to lose its glamour and terror. It becomes simply a variety of human experience that we integrate into our knowledge of the world. When we stop mistaking a snake for a goose, because we now know that snakes exist, life becomes that much easier, safer and richer.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Saturday, 5 December 2009 @ 3:05pm

  133. one_step_at_a_time says:

    sotired, thank you for posting this here. crippling. my word now.

    stayingsane, thanks for hearing my need for permission.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Saturday, 5 December 2009 @ 3:11pm

  134. libelle says:

    Dear One step. I hear you. Your nick name is no coincidence, I think we choose it with our subconscious!

    One step at a time!

    First: get out! Go for a walk, feel your body, feel your feet one in front of the other. If you have not gotten your bl****dy boots, go clean the kitchen, one drawer after the other! Or the windows, or the bathroom, whatever. But DO something, get that energy OUT!

    Second: do some inventory of edible things in your kitchen. There are wonderful recipes in the internet on old bread and apples baked together, or how about Spaghetti aglio/olio (garlic and oil, you do NOT need premium extra vergine stuff; when I was a student I lived for ages on it, just to save money.

    (Are you entiteled to food stamps or the like?)

    Three: go to bed early!

    Four: stop beating yourself up!!!! (should really be First as well but goes as “basso continuo” throughout the whole thing) Why are you SO angry?

    If it is because of yourself: stop it! It won’t get any better and you need this very helpful energy to accomplish something. You are invigorated right now. Use this force to clean up, garden, kitchen, whatever.

    Then when your body has calmed down you can start to think about what train had hit you. Whom allowed you to go so deep into your soul to make you feel so angry?

    I recommend you the series of Kathleen Hawk who helped me enormously finding the right words for my barely noticable feelings resurfacing from my deep burried soul that has been kept in a deep cellar since early childhood.

    I personally was very happy when I FINALLY could experience SOME anger. (It needed my father today to getting angry at X! Remembering the “Escort”-letter I almost had forgotten)

    Anger is wonderful.

    The first two words I have learned when I came to England to learn English was the difference between shit and manure. There is none really, it depends on its use. Now you are in the shit-phase, and it is your task to find out where to put it or how to look at it that you can see the manure part.

    My manure part was that X was opening my eyes to the whole transgressions my whole family was doing to me.

    Today was a completely “normal” visit in my father’s eyes who wanted to invite me for lunch! (I declined the offer).

    I also stopped feeling ashamed. The shame is also something that has been implanted by my family; I would have felt ashamed by my father’s behaviour towards me in front of the other woman 18 months ago, but I refused letting him implanting this feeling into me too. I just got rightfully angry and I even told him in front of this woman that he has to use my bathroom in such and such way, and that I am not amused of cleaning after him. The blame was all his, and the other woman said well it is mr Libelle we all know and cherish for what he is. So it was no big deal for her as well. But quite embarrassing as well.

    I found out that lots of my inside myself packed shame stems from things like this, a constant irritation towards me being in charge of watching people who do horrible things and I am supposed to be part of the pack and smoothing it out and make them look good. Not any more!

    If it was not for my progress I had made in the last 18 months I would have acted in a complete different way. I went to lunch and I had contacted X who FINALLY came to his senses!

    You are not alone! There are tons of understanding, wonderful, empathic, great, clever, adorable people in all shapes and colors and time tables 24 hours here! Blog, vent, rant, whatever; this too will pass.

    I will lit a candle for your inner peace now. (((Hugs)))

    (Report abusive comment)

    Saturday, 5 December 2009 @ 3:15pm

  135. one_step_at_a_time says:

    libelle, Awesome post, ty. I am gonna go get out.

    One of the huge issues is that my house is actually toxic to me, and i have to move AGAIN. (i lived 7 years in the same place before i moved to this city and have just moved in july to get away from the smoke seeping into the last place). my home is not safe. so, being here is in no way calming and i cannot nest. and the longer i am in the house, the more muddled my thinking is and getting out the door is harder.

    okay, I am going to get out of here. ty.

    one step

    (Report abusive comment)

    Saturday, 5 December 2009 @ 3:26pm

  136. one_step_at_a_time says:

    and ty for the candle too.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Saturday, 5 December 2009 @ 3:26pm

  137. libelle says:

    I just ment get out for a short walk, 15 minutes or so, not to MOVE!!! Move the body not the household! (I am sorry my English is so poor).

    But what can you expect from someone whose first words in a foreign language are shit and manure? ;-)

    ty = thank you?

    (Report abusive comment)

    Saturday, 5 December 2009 @ 3:32pm

  138. libelle says:

    one of the wonderful entries Kathleen did in June 09 that became some kind of my inspiration:

    “And sometimes it also offers us a gift of purpose. In my case and, in the case of several of us here on LoveFraud, our traumas have given us a clear sense of what we want to do with our lives.

    I know I talk about God a lot here, and you probably know that my concept of God is not a traditional one. I depend much more on the God spark inside me than any idea of an big, external power. At the same time, I use my old Catholic upbringing to come up with some of the images I use in healing.

    And one of those images is my soul standing at the door of life, giving God my laundry list of what I want to be born to. I wanted a family that was exceptionally smart, physically strong, good looking, born leaders and gifted in handling the materials of the world. And I got all that. It never occurred to me to ask that they were emotionally healthy and happy people.

    But at the door, God said one thing to me as he sent me out to this life. It was that he had chosen something special for me, a big challenge and a chance to change the world for the better, if I could understand the meaning of that challenge. He said, “No matter what happens, you can always find the right path by asking yourself ‘what am I going to do with this?’ Everything you need is there. You just have to look at it all, and think about what good thing you can do with it.”

    The more well I get, the more I realize that my whole life has been about that. And I think that’s true for everyone one of us. We just don’t see it that way when we feel overwhelmed by things that have happened to us. The sense of victimization is all about feeling like the world is big and strong, and we are small and weak. As we emerge from it into the simplicity of wounded innocence, we realize that we are simply learning and grasping again all that we have to work with.

    And we go on, smarter and more resilient, to the next important “pleasure” in our lives and to meet the next learning experiences along the way. Because there is one more important thing about successful trauma processing, and that is our comfort and increasing speed with the process. The more we do this, the better we get, the faster we learn, the less it costs us, and the more quickly and effecting we can get back to setting our God sparks loose on creating more good in the world. ”

    Have you all a peaceful sunday!

    (Report abusive comment)

    Saturday, 5 December 2009 @ 3:51pm

  139. justabouthealed says:

    Oxy…I think the filmmaker was more than irritated with Sam…don’t you? I think he was profoundly shook up by him and had to end it early, and cleanse himself like a rape victim. But like you, I was only irritated. Maybe because I didn’t see the wife crying, falling apart, etc…though surely she must? I didn’t quite get her.

    But watching also gave me this insight: If you know from the start what you are dealing with (as thoroughly as many on LF do), and you refuse to personalize it or take it seriously, then his tantrums and tricks etc are like watching a two year old in a grown man’s body. As long as they truly don’t have anything you need or want and you don’t personalize it, doesn’t hurt much. Just rather boring and tiresome. But Sam could get to the filmmaker….the filmmaker needed him for the film!

    And unfortunately in most cases we don’t know what we are dealing with right from the start.

    I think I would have been more sickened by Sam had his victims shown THEIR hurt more graphically. But it almost was as if everyone in the film KNEW what Sam was, but were chosing to interact with him anyway, but weren’t under the spell, not very much. Except the wife. Is she in denial still? That seemed to be what that one woman who tested her was saying. Must be, to still be with him!

    I don’t know what the arms out of sync means in psychological terms… that maybe she is a misfit, won’t have a lot of friends? I picked her too, but I thought she just looked too happy or carefree….and that would put her at risk.

    On the test where Sam flatlined….do you think he faked that? Purposefully shut off his feelings? I guess not, based on the other tests. I thought they would do a brain scan while he reacted to words like rape, blood, etc. that draw forth emotions in most of us, but not P’s. I wonder, with both tests, can a normal person make it flatline by choosing to shut off their feelings, esp. someone who came from an abusive background and knows how to disassociate? It seemed if the person learned to use the feedback to score higher, they could also purposefully choose not to score. Sam? Or was he really trying.
    ?

    Anyway, if he wasn’t faking, that is what impressed me the most. They are truly emotionally retarded and it is very comparable to mental retardation. They act age inappropriate and the retardation can’t be fixed. Even if they try real hard.

    The filmmaker’s final point is don’t listen to Sam’s advice about how to live your life! Amen to that.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Saturday, 5 December 2009 @ 11:28pm

  140. OxDrover says:

    I got some information on that fMRI a research study about it probably not being valid. They did a scan of a DEAD FISH and got “reactions” from it. Of course the purpose of this “study” was to show that the scan isn’t all that reliable. so I do not know if the scan they did on Sam was reliable or not, or the one they did on her was reliable or not.

    I think the BEHAVIOR and the answers to the tests were what showed for sure that he was a P.

    I looked at the wife’s face as she watched those tapes of Sam insulting her and it was so filled with embarassment and pain I thought. Yea she is in denial or trauma bonded to him. Whatever, she sort of kinid of “knows” but she can’t leave him.

    I think all or most of us here can identify with that stance of wanting him to love her back.

    The “victim” woman just to me, and I can’t say why, seemed to be “walkign like she was defeated” or scared. That’s all I could pick up on.

    Just like a dog shows fright by his body language I think we do too, show our fear or our timidity or whatever. It was interesting though.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Sunday, 6 December 2009 @ 12:35am

  141. BloggerT7165 says:

    I wouldn’t put much stock in the so called testing. From what I understand from talking to people who actually do them what we saw in the film was not a proper or valid way to do it.

    The funny thing is that the challenge to his diploma has been ongoing for years and the “rebuttal” Donna posted was way before the film ever came out. It is amusing that he spent so much energy trying to prove through clever word use that his Phd was legit and then to turn around and admit it wasn’t on tape.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Sunday, 6 December 2009 @ 2:07am

  142. libelle says:

    I think he could admit to the fake PhD because it is a long time ago to him and it does not matter any more to him. He has it spread over on the Internet, and how many people are watching this film at all?

    My father said to me that his PhD was also “substandard”, but he just did it, and so what! No big deal. That prompted me to set my own standards sky high, so I am still struggling with it, maybe my procrastination stems from there?

    When I was in internship one of our surgeons once did an operation and put an anus praeter and led out the wrong part of the bowel, and the poor man died some day later, he was very ill anyway, but he could have been living some more time. I was present at the operation and wanted to ask the surgeon whether he could tell me why he was so sure of cutting the bowel in half and closing the one part and stitch the other part to the belly (it was the wrong part he closed so the man died of bowel obstruction). The surgeon was so ill tempered during the operation I just kept my mouth shot. In hindsight my question would have been very useful. From then on I kept asking and still keep asking, and I am not very much liked for it.

    Fast forward some years: I am at a dinner table with said surgeon. He tells “funny stories about his wonderful life as a gifted physician”, and HE TELLS THIS VERY STORY as a fun thing!!! I really felt sick and had to leave early.

    So twisted, we just can’t grasp their audacity, and I am glad I lack THIS hypertrophy of the part of the brain responsible for it.

    As for the woman of Sam Vanking: I just felt pity for her. Specially when she said she gave up on love. She knows! But the same time this part of Europe where she comes from is one of the poorest in Europe, and there are lots and lots of beautiful young women trying to go “Gold digging”, and after all he is famous, has a video done on him, maybe he is also rich, he is AMERICAN, and she is not so young any more, and leaving him would mean falling back into poverty. I found this part of the film really cruel towards her, confronting her with his ugly statements towards her.

    The neurologists in our hospital think not too well about this fMRI either! And it is not validated in repeated series, and we have to wait until it becomes a standard. Maybe our guts are more reliable in this perspective!?

    (Report abusive comment)

    Sunday, 6 December 2009 @ 2:47am

  143. OxDrover says:

    Dear Libelle and blogger,

    Libelle I agree with your story about the surgeon and what he did. I’ve seen the same thing in hospitals where incompetent practioners where responsible for the death of patients and yet because they were physicians nothing was ever done to them because of teh status of the people who were “whistle blowers” was lower than the physicians so the administration always took the part of defending the physician. The deaths were “covered up” as “natural causes” not from the wrong medication or an obvious but missed diagnosis because the physician was an “idiot.”

    There is an old nurse’s joke “What do you call the physician who finished LAST IN HIS CLASS”—the answer is DOCTOR of course. As a lowly intern there was nothing you could have done, I suspect. There have been few times I was successful in confronting (even tactfully) a physican who was responsible for the deaths of patients by pure stupidity and poor skills, though I did get one jerked up to the ethics committee of the hospital because the medical director over my unit was also chairman of that committee and I could freely go to him with the truth. It didn’t happen often though.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Sunday, 6 December 2009 @ 12:46pm

  144. Stayingsane says:

    This woman Lydia has been with Sam for 10 years!
    She does not seem beaten or traumatised. She is very clear, appears fit, strong and content to be with him TO THE CAMERA

    On leaving the film maker she showed no sign of emotion on saying goodbye, no embarrassment at the antics of Sam to the film maker who really appears to be the one who is traumatised and impacted on….

    The film maker tried to tell her what he was saying about her to camera, and she showed no shock, didn’t seem upset.

    The only thing I can think of is betrayal bond. He has her in his grip and she dares not leave him.

    the crumbs he dishes out are sufficient for her to stay? she said he shares with her and shows her intimacy, he allows her be very intimate with him? or he allows her think that he is very intimate with her, he knows how important that would be in keeping her….why would he want to keep her? he is fond of her? loves her in his psychopathic way? he actually said it
    He said if you bully somone in tiny doses, they only need a tiny amount and they do the rest themselves….it’s so creepy.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Monday, 7 December 2009 @ 10:43am

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