Thanksgiving—count your blessings
By Ox Drover
I’m sure we have all heard the old saying, “I cried because I had no shoes until I saw a man who had no feet.” This “old saying” is true, though I think it is made up to inspire some guilt in us for complaining about the small things we lack and make us aware that we are fortunate to have the many blessings that we do have, which many others are not fortunate enough to have.
Another one I remember is, “Eat your vegetables; there are children starving in China.” I always wondered why I couldn’t just send the hated vegetables there instead of eating them. It would solve two problems: I wouldn’t have to eat them, and the kids in China would be grateful for them. My son D has turned this phrase around to joke, “Drink your beer, there are sober children in China.”
All jokes and platitudes aside, however, the feeling of gratitude for what blessings we do have is, I think, an important concept for our healing. The encounters with sociopaths, sometimes for decades, have given us a feeling of destitution and emotional poverty. The thing that we prized and valued most—the love that we thought was shared between us and the sociopath—turned out to be an illusion. We have lost this vision of the relationship we thought was so important.
When my kids were very little, if one had a birthday, we would get the other one a “consolation present.” It was never as big as the birthday boy’s present, but it was a token to show that the non-birthday boy was not forgotten. One year when they were about four and three, we forgot to get the non-birthday boy something, and so my mother wrapped up a nice new shirt in a package, since the non-birthday boy did like clothes very much. When it came his turn to open his package he was all smiles, expecting some sort of toy I am sure. When he saw that his expectations were dashed and he had clothing, however, his little face fell. He had not gotten what he had expected. I was gratified, though, that he looked up, almost ready to cry I think, and said the most pitiful “thank you” that I have ever seen a child force from his lips.
Our expectations of our relationship many times turn out to be like my son’s expectations of what was in his package, very disappointing. Sometimes even devastation follows the exposure of the one-sidedness of the true relationship, with emotional, physical and/or financial abuse as well.
Walking down the street and seeing another couple holding hands, we may start to have a feeling that only we are alone, only we don’t have someone who wants to hold our hand. This feeling of “poverty,” of “not having” what others have, I think, fuels our feelings of worthlessness, abandonment and sadness, and the loneliness of wishing we had the relationship we thought we had. We feel deprived of what we deserve by someone else, or feel that maybe we don’t deserve more, or that we got what we deserved and if we had only worked harder, we might have managed to make it come true.
I think those feelings of deprivation, those feelings of poverty of spirit and soul, tend to drag us down further into the abyss of failure—a failure that keeps us from appreciating what we do have. A failure to appreciate just how important we are, and also a failure to appreciate that we have escaped the clutches of a bad relationship, even if that escape was painful.
The appreciation of ourselves, of our unique value and worth, is important to healing. To appreciate ourselves, I think we need to look at ourselves on this (U.S.) holiday of Thanksgiving and to enumerate and validate the many things about ourselves we do have to be thankful for. We need to count our blessings, and assess the many valuable characteristics that make us who we are.
Even if we have lost our “shoes” we still have our “feet” and while we may feel that we don’t have “as much as” someone else, we still have something that cannot be taken away from us, and that is the unique spirit that is ours and ours alone. The unique spirit that can be grateful and give thanks to the universe for new opportunities to expand that spirit in new ways we’ve never before explored.
Happy Thanksgiving everyone!
written by Donna Andersen • Permalink •
breckgirl says:
Thank you Donna, this speaks to exactly where i have been emotionally for a bit now.
Wishing you all a very Happy Thanksgiving indeed.
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Thursday, 26 November 2009 @ 6:12am
Spirit40 says:
Happy thanksgiving !!!! remember you can pick your friends but you cant pick your family… or wait can you???
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Thursday, 26 November 2009 @ 8:00am
Matt says:
Happy Thanksgiving all LoveFrauders:
Last Thanksgiving was 3 weeks after I had driven the S out of my life. I remember waking up on T’Day and looking at the devastation of my life and wondering what I was supposed to be thankful for and how could it possibly get any worse? It did get worse. I lost my job and took some major hits to my health.
Today I woke up and realized how much I have to be thankful for. I’ve got a good circle of supportive friends and family. I’ve got a nice home and a few bucks in the bank that allow me to weather the economic storm for awhile, yet. I’ve been seeing a wonderful guy for 6 months (today he gets fed into the pirhana tank of T’Day dinner at my family, lucky him), and in the last few weeks there have finally been some bubbles of activity on the employment front.
I’m also thankful for all of you. When I crawled through the LoveFraud portal a year ago, I was ready to kill myself. You all were there for me and kept me going. I am so thankful for your support and friendship. You have helped me to create a new S-free life and see that there is a light at the end of the tunnel (and it isn’t a train driven by S).
Yes, I have a lot to be thankful for this year.
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Thursday, 26 November 2009 @ 9:20am
Hecates path says:
Thank you, Oxy… beautifully said. thank you for such a gentle reminder. Happy thanksgiving to you and all our LF friends. I am truly greatful to have found all the wionderful kind people here at LF!
xo HP
P.S. Spirit 40- LOL at picking/not picking friends/family. My version is: “friends are God’s way of making up for your family.”
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Thursday, 26 November 2009 @ 9:40am
Spirit40 says:
Matt: you responded to one of my posts on ptsd, thank you , I also wrote back to give you some idea and I appreciate your input. Thanks again and I wish that you find a job that you love to do the universe will provide… the good can not come to us unless we get rid of the toxic, how can we find what we are looking for if we are stuck with toxicity…. I am grateful to the support provided here… its only been a few weeks and major life changes… people say they know the difficulties but they really do not….
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Thursday, 26 November 2009 @ 9:46am
style1 says:
Happy Thanksgiving to all! I woke up counting my blessings…Last year, I was with him and I was miserable but didn’t really know how miserable until he was gone and I have myself totally back.. and let me share this.. I had a real realization about myself… I have been corresponding with a man in Ft. Lauderdale for abour 2 months. We were planning on my visiting him the first week in Dec. He is retired, a former White House staff employee… and we shared photos etc and many long converstions. Then he revealed that he was recovering from leukemia and sent photos of his appearance now.. he was thin and had a gaunt appearance. He assured me that he was in remission. Being a kind person, and having enjoyed what I had with him thus far, I over looked this omission. But was thinking umm.. a sick man.. do I want to get involved..and his appearance was not of the handsome vigoruous man that I thought I was communicating with. Then he told me that because of his illness that he can’t be around germs so he inquired if I had had a recent HIV test and if I have an veneral deseases… to which I said no.. I get chk ups regularly and have nothing and am a healthy person and rarely get a cold.. BUt his question about STD and HIV was weird to me..But again being a nice, I thought he was just being precautious for his health.. as he are planning into the exact timeframe for the visit, he again asked me this.. I again told him and I am now feelingvery uncomfortable. He looks ill. He is the one with the illness not me.. and he is 61 and has never been married. I am beginning to want to blow it all off.. but I go on just thinking about it..
Then I get an email yesterday from him telling me that he is looking for a younger woman… I revealed to him that I am a few years older than I first represented. I laughed and laughed but saw it clearly.. here, me in my kindness was overlooking a major illness and a man that looked like he had HIV… and he couldn’t over look a couple of years.. when I look 10 to 15 years younger than my age and him and I am healthy and vigorous and everything good. Here he pulled out before me because in my kindness I was going to give him the benefit of the doubt…
WHEN really, when he revealed his photos after his illness and started asking abotu this HIV BS.. I should’ve said GOODBYE..
This showed me how I am so kind and open and think of othes that don’t deserve my kindness..
I woke up today.. grateful for being me. I am healthy, kind, and I have me and I am at peace. And I will not bring others into my life that aren’t up to my standards ever again. So this was a lesson and I learned it.
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Thursday, 26 November 2009 @ 11:26am
Spirit40 says:
Style1: reminds me of a song…. forget who sings it …
Are you strong enough to be my man?……. its a feel good , are u up to my standards song…
We deserve much better…how you you find mr right when your with mr wrong…
Lessons are a good thing..
Each of us must find our own way, in our own time, at our own pace!
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Thursday, 26 November 2009 @ 11:39am
Cat says:
I woke up yesterday after a fitful night of sleep as I had posted on another article on here. I had let all those nasty emotions get in the way. Today, I woke up, put the turkey in the oven and felt a peace come over me as I sat down to read LF and what everyone had said. I know that there will be more of those days and nights and that I am by no means totally free of the effects of the P. but I also know I am on the right path and I have places to come to, like this, where everyone understands and shares. This site is my connection to sanity and peace. LF reminds me there are still people with hearts and souls, people who care.
style1, I can relate to this story. I’ve always given and I’ve been stopping lately to ask myself WHY I give and I watch who I give to as well. Your post was wonderful to read. It’s a great reminder of what we gain when we are finally free to grow and heal.
Matt, I am spending a few hours with my own family today, which should be interesting as they ex P. will be there as well. It should make for an interesting day! I like the piranhas analogy. It fits with me!
I might be down to having just the feet without the shoes, but today that’s OK. I have the feet and I can and am walking through life today. For that, I am most grateful.
Have a Blessed Happy Thanksgiving everyone!
Cat
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Thursday, 26 November 2009 @ 11:51am
style1 says:
Yep,, it’s the too kind and understanding thing that gets us wrapped into things that are not good for us.. I always want to be kind.. but I don’t need to let them into my life. I do not want to be a caretaker of a man that is my romantic interest.. not starting out.. now, if a couple is together for a long while and one gets ill.. that is a different matter.. Had this man told me up front what he was dealing with, I wouldn’t have been attracted but he waited until we had been talking for awhile.. so that is the bait and switch deal.. then he pulls out on me..which is fine, in that I probably would’ve but.. I have to laugh.. he had real issues and he is concerned with me being a couple of years older but I am a still younger than he is.. isn’t that just like some guys… they have cancer, look like hell.. and want a much younger woman… No wonder this man has never been married.. and maybe why he is ill…
Anyway.. I sensed I wanted to pull out but out of that kindness in my heart gave him the benefit of the doubt..giving that benefit of the doubt is what has gotten me into all sorts of stupidity.. be ever vigilant and true to your gut and self..
and yes,,, I haven’t heard that song but it’s a good one..Are you good enough to be my man?
Here I was pondering a trip to Ft. Lauderdale to visit a sick man, whose main concern was my age and if I have an STD… LOLOLOLOO
and what is really pathetic.. he is a Yale grad and worked for three Presidents.. but what does that mean really? Nothing!
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Thursday, 26 November 2009 @ 12:27pm
OxDrover says:
Dear Style,
The thing is that this man was WAVING SO MANY RED FLAGS of DECEPTION, and whatever his illness is, that is a MAJOR DECEPTION.
I think the questions about HIV etc. were because he was ASSUMING that you two might be going to have sex during your “visit.” Also, it might be that HIS ILLNESS was HIV intead of leukemia and he wanted to know how you felt about HIV etc. and any associated risks.
This man is I think a bit over the top on his VISIBLE deceptions, but at the same time, I think there is so much OPPORTUNITY to BE deceptive over the internet and to “manufacture” a fake biiography that the risk of finding someone who is “healthy” in all aspects of himself who is out there waiting to meet you is pretty slim.
The statistics on available single men vs available single women aged 35 to 65 is about 10:3 with the women outnumbering the men. Plus, it is usual that men are attraced to “younger women” and that generally they have “more and younger” women to choose from, so if you are 45, the 45 year old men are looking for the 30-35 year old women, and if you take out the “losers” and the “drunks” and the rejects from the “available male pool” the ratio of good men to good women goes to more like (just an estimate here) of 100 women available for each 1 man.
I am 63, so most of the men looking at me, or considering me as a possible “catch’ would be in the neighborhood of 70+ years old. The P that I dated 4 years ago was my same age, but he wasn’t really interested in ME just another respectable wife to cheat on and keep the “home fires burning” while he was out seeking new worlds to conqueor.
The fact is that while there are “available men” out there, my guess is that most of the ones that are “worthwhile” as far as smarts, stability, emotional health, etc. are NOT having any problem finding an available pool of interested and interesting women without being on the dating sites. Therefore, my estimate is that MOST of the men on the dating sites are fakes of one sort or another trolling for a victim.
One study I read said taht 40% of the men on dating sites are currently married, so that eliminates many of them right there.
Your man saying he had never been married also speaks to a lack of committment. Though I have a very dear male friend who married for the first time at age 65 (10 years ago) that he would be a great guy and a great husband is very RARE. He did not marry because he was responsible for supporting not only his mother, but a large family of younger siblings and he chose not to marry until that responsibility was complete and his maother lived to be 98. He and his wife are very happy and he now says he wished he had gotten married earlier in spite of his other responsibilities. But that is very RARE.
I know several guys who have hooked up with female cyber-paths, my son for one, he married the woman who tried later to kill him, and several other guys who hooked up with con-women, but at the same time, except for my son, most of these guys are not someone I would want as a mate because though they are OK as friends, I see lots of problems with them in a romantic relationship, and so do other available women.
I’ve only dated one man (3 times) in teh last several years, because I am pretty picky, and this man was a widower, he is the brother of one of my long time neighbors, but on my last conoversation with him (on the phone) I realized that I did NOT want to date this man again—a red flag popped up.
Since I had NO expectations (hadn’t gotten emotionally interested until I had gotten to know him more) I didn’t have more reaction than a shoulder shrug and an “Oh, well….” and didn’t feel a sense of loss of a possible relationship.
There is a big statistical chance that I will be single the rest of my life, and it wouldn’t matter if I was 23, 32, 45 or 65, I am NOT going to settle for an UNhealthy relationship, or fish in a polluted “pool” for anything that bites my hook.
Style, I realize you are looking for and desire another relationship and I assume you want a healthy one, but I firmly believe that dating sites on the net are such a BIG risk that you are “setting yourself up for failure” to be fishing in that pool. I too would like a relationship and after my husband died I WANTED ONE DESPERATELY, but I no longer feel that NEED or that desperation to not be “alone.” I’m happy with myself now, and if one comes along, I will cautiously examine it to see if it might be a fit, but I am NOT settling for second best….or even considering people that are from a distance because it is very difficult to actually get to KNOW someone who lives at a great distance. i tis so much easier for them to keep up a phony mask, like this guy did with you, than if they live in the community where you can get to know them under all kinds of situations, meet their friends and family, and see that they are legit.
Even then, we can be hooked, as I was by a guy I casually knew for 10 years before we started dating, but because we had friends in common (including some of his secret girlfriends) I eventually got the information I needed to realize he was a psychopath. Otherwise, He would have fooled me longer and I probably would have been married to him when I found out he was a cheat.
I know I’m being preachy here, Style, but BE CAUTIOUS in any new relationship. They all give us the “love bomb” at first and it is so easy to fall for it. I DID! I won’t do it again! (Hugs)
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Thursday, 26 November 2009 @ 12:29pm
ErinBrock says:
Happy Thanksgiving to all of my valued Lf friends…..
It was 3 years ago that I finally woke up, smelled the turkey and saw the light from BEHIND the train…..moving down the tracks of life, after I let it pass……
It was also 3 years ago tomorrow that I felt I was getting a nasty cold, as I entertained 20 of my family on an extended Thanksgiving holiday at my home. I thought I was just tired from all the prep and entertaining……not so……
My home was filled with people I thought would be here for my eternity, Parents, brothers, cousins and aunts/uncles……I was proud of myself for making the change and deciding to end my marriage….I was in a good place.
I had a month after separation to enjoy it all…..enjoy the peace, the independance….the serenity……..the thoughts of having my whole extended family in my home again was exciting….things would seem normal….I would carry on…..
Then……it all fell apart…….my life, my health, my family…..
I got VERY ill…..and for a few years…..
Most of my family chose to abandon me……and my life was turned upside down.
This was 3 years ago today.
Now….fast forward to today……
I have learned who to trust, when to trust and when to give…..This is a gift!
I have learned the true value of friends. Female and Male.
I have learned to live in the present.
I have learned I can trust.
I have learned that I am capable of ANYTHING…..and go after it…..
I have seen the value in myself…as a mother and a friend, a neice and a cousin.
I have weeded my garden of the ‘rif raf’…or ‘fix it tickets’…..
I understand my requirement for genuine, authentic relationships….
I have learned how to love myself.
I have discovered my own strength…..and know I can get through hell.
I have become wiser and more alert.
I treasure my support.
I don’t feel alone, and I know I rely on myself….because….this is truely all I have when the lights go out.
This is just a few of the things I am thankful for today…..
I have my health back, I have my kids and I have my life …..and I have choices…..choices that are ALL mine…..
I have faith. I have Love.
I will no longer give my coat to someone cold, when it’s the only one I have and the weather forcast is -20 below……I need to take care of ME first…..and when I have more to give (of myself), then I will offer it up……I will no longer ‘freeze’ to ‘help’ another.
I have come so far……and for that…..I am thankful!
We have been cooking, had a GF here already this morning…..and we will be spending the day with friends……together, sharing, cooking, playing, drinking and eating…..laughing and enjoying each other……
I will enjoy the environment I look forward to each year……Although this year……IT WILL BE AUTHENTIC!!!! It will be chosen company…..not default family, because it’s the ‘right’ thing to do…..and we don’t want to ruffle anyones feathers…..
There will be NO piranas at my feast…..because I’ve cooked em up and eaten em through the prior 3 years!
I’ve got both feet…..and I just put the sandles on……
Happy Thanksgiving….I hope we can all find something to be thankful for and take it into our futures!!!
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Thursday, 26 November 2009 @ 12:33pm
style1 says:
Ox Drover,
I am just dating and checking things out.. I am certainly not desperate in any form.. I am content to be alone…I have been divorced for 15 years and had two serious relationships during that time.. but dated lots, one and two dates… I am a writer and have written a book and script about these adventures…
I just keep dating and looking as Ihave the time and it is part of my awareness and growth as it is both entertaining and educational..
Yes, I agree that the reason that he was asking about HIV could be because either he was hoping for sex or that he has in fact HIV… he talked about it too often… I know no one with HIV.. and am not promisicous and have never had this brought up in this manner…
And I realize that the internet is dicey…at best…
I have younger men after me all the time.. And I have had an interaction with a younger man in the past… and it was fun but became boring because of our differences in life experiences and intellect. I am under no delusions about men..
Not to be arrogant.. but I am fortunate in that I look 10 to 15 years younger than I am and have never lacked for male attention or companionship… and I have always been selective, but even in being selective..I have had my share of weirdos… real wierdos wrapped in attractive packages… Look at former President CLinton.. he is a predator… and look at his achievements… It is my conclusion that men are innately flawed. Predator is their nature.. so I, at times, play in their ‘pool’ if you will or as you call it…maybe I will meet man that is worthy of me.. and maybe not, men are such needy characters.. they aren’t attractive.. physically as they age most look hideous…..then they want a youndger beautiful, well-kept woman and it is laughable..
My deal is I know I don’t need one.. it’s they that need what I have.. my heart, my kindness, my beauty inside and out… I am the prize.. that is what I am getting so deeply now.. and on all levels… At one time, I thought I needed a man… now, I think that they are more trouble than they are worth…
Men need women..much more than women need men…
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Thursday, 26 November 2009 @ 1:12pm
style1 says:
Yes, and concerning that man’s DECEPTION.. he also mislead his age by a few years and was recovering from cancer…
And he wrote to me that since I had mislead by my age that he didn’t know whatelse I might be misleading him on…
And with me, nothing.. he was the deceptor… so we have the projection deal going on with him…
As soon as he revealed his illness which is major.. I should’ve said good luck and good bye..
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Thursday, 26 November 2009 @ 1:17pm
Rosa says:
Happy Thanksgiving!
I am envious of everyone who can sit down to a P-free Thanksgiving dinner.
I remember those dinners fondly.
And, I can definitely relate to those of us who will be sitting down to Thanksgiving dinner with “undesirable” family members.
I will be having turkey and all the trimmings, with a huge side order of DYSFUNCTION.
I already played an hour of tennis this morning, to work off the stress.
And, this afternoon, I will be circling the table, waiting for the dysfunctional family members to sit down, and then I will sit as far away as possible.
It’s not going to ruin my day, though.
In spite of it all, I am still very blessed & thankful.
The human spirit is RESILIENT.
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Thursday, 26 November 2009 @ 1:18pm
OxDrover says:
Dear Rosa,
Yea, P-FREE and not one regret for that! Was a long time getting here.
I can look back at those long-ago HOLIDAY DRAMA RAMAs with my egg donor insisting that I have the holiday meal at her house with UNCLE MONSTER there—who made me want to PUKE in my plate just by being there.
About that time my living history group started having a living history exhibit and camp out at a state park near here so I jumped on that band wagon and went to the event with my FRIENDS! A convenient “excuse” to NOT HAVE the holiday mean with the egg donor and her brother UNCLE MONSTER.
In the 15 or so years that event has gone on, I think I might have missed a couple, on of which my egg donor was in the hospital with a serious surgery, though my son did come and relieve me at the bedside so I could at least drive up there long enough to say “hi” and eat with my friends, and I’m not sure why I missed maybe another one, oh, yes, I remember now, that was the Thanksgiving after my husband died (2004) and my step father was quite ill, newly diagnosed with cancer. And by then, Uncle Monster was dead so there was no problem about him being there. However, there was my P-DIL there which was somewhat of a stress since she didn’t hide the fact she didn’t like me, and I sure didn’t like her any better, but made an effort to be “nice”—PUKE!–”let’s pretend we are a nice normal family.”
NO MORE pretending though! I think that’s the best part of being P-FREE, but I do understand, Rosa why you have to play the game you do in order to stay in contact with your niece and brother. Ah, sometimes the burdens we bear! Hope your holiday is a good one in spite of the toxic vapors given off by their breath! (((hugs))))
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Thursday, 26 November 2009 @ 1:35pm
Rosa says:
OxDrover;
Thank you.
But, you know what? It’s sort of like what we tell Tami about Biddy.
I’ve done all I can. And I will continue to stay close to my niece because my brother lets me see her whenever I want.
That’s all I really care about at this point.
The rest of it is really not my deal.
My brother is going to have to come out of the FOG (and he is definitely in it!!) about his wife on his own. Right now, he’s a willing victim.
And as the child gets older, it is becoming less and less my deal.
My niece will be driving 10 years from now.
It will be over, at least as far as I am concerned.
And when she turns 18, I will be dealing with her directly, and I won’t need her parent’s blessing or permission and neither will she.
There is going to be an end to this charade.
I don’t know if it is going to be a good end.
But, the end is coming, in one way or another.
~Thank you, God, for blessing me with the ability to LOVE.
~Not all of us have that ability….and thank you for showing me THAT, as well.
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Thursday, 26 November 2009 @ 2:08pm
style1 says:
Thank God that I am alone and can do, eat watch, say and be anything that I want to.. I am free and I am blessed…
Thank you God.. I am thankful!
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Thursday, 26 November 2009 @ 2:22pm
Spirit40 says:
Style1,
I second that!!!! pumpkin pie is almost thawed out! freedom!
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Thursday, 26 November 2009 @ 2:50pm
heavenbound says:
I just wanted to say, I hope everyone has had a wonderful Thanksgiving.
It has been a very good day here, after all the years with the p, the miserable holidays, miserable every day. I am thankful for my ‘feet’!!!! There is so much to be thankful for and this year the p isn’t here to mess with every thing until I can’t see all the things to be thankful for!
Happy Thanksgiving!
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Thursday, 26 November 2009 @ 7:10pm
henry says:
Style1 He is 61 and never been married..hmmm red flag —I bet ya a donut hole he was hiv+ and was hoping you were also or at least willing to overlook it. I wonder if he thot you might be a meal ticket? Want to find a predator? Get online and join a dating website and they will come out of the wood work. This TG was good for me. I remember the past two years the holidays were a blur..I am not suffering with hyper vigilance as before. But Oxy’s post made me realize how much I miss that illusion. And little twinges of doubt stick me now and then and I wonder, is he happy and me sad? Was it me that was wrong.? Wonder if he even thot of me one half of a mili-second? Of course he didnt..
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Thursday, 26 November 2009 @ 7:31pm
henry says:
HAPPY THANKSGIVING TO ALL – DON’T LET THE TURKEYS GET YOU.
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Thursday, 26 November 2009 @ 7:32pm
lostandfearful says:
I think i have to change my screen name; it isn’t buoying me up to type that in.
I am having a hard time today with remembering reality. (as someone who met their spath online and on phone, it goes like this: HE never died, HE never left me, HE never existed.
today, for some reason, I am thinking HE did. And all the attendant hurt that comes with that is nipping at my mind. Hmm, maybe because I am so sick today. I have MCS, and today is a very bad day.
I really want to know who that sweet boy is in HIS photos. cause SHE ain’t nothing like his photos. Starting with gender. The only thing I know that She and her sock puppet have in common is race. That’s it.
I wish I could be a bit more forthcoming here, but I feel/ fear there are spaths lurking.
it’s hard to get all those sock puppets jammed into the SINGLE spath shoe. ah, maybe tha’t why todya is difficult – I have been remembering the nasty of the mean sock puppets. You know, that was my biggest fear when I started to put this all together: that the nasty bf and the sweet boy were one in the same. The last time i talked to sweet one (his resurrection day), he even refered to things the bf said about MY emails. and how much he liked the bf reading MY emails, caused they bothered the bf.
Oh good f**cking Chirst. WHACK JOB! Repeat after me, Lostandfearful: “WHACK JOB!!!!!”
Okay, I feel a bit better now.
thanx.
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Thursday, 26 November 2009 @ 8:17pm
lostandfearful says:
In reference to the ‘hijacking’ of our ‘pleasure’ neuro pathways in addiction and spath relations:
There is this one really dark space I go to with all this spath shit – and it is a type of lonliness that feels toxic. So, HE (she) hijacked my pleasure neruopathway and filled it with acid. So, when I remember the oh so sweet of HIM, I feel a toxic burn.
Fk.er
her. i have to remember it’s not HIM, he did not exist.
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Thursday, 26 November 2009 @ 8:33pm
OxDrover says:
Dear Lost,
I hear your confusion, your pain, your anger, and all the other things that must be rolling around inside your head!
It’s okay to vent, it’s okay to ….whatever you feel like saying!
They build some sort of “neverland” that isn’t real, but we think it is real, and when it POOF! goes away and we realize we have been TRICKED, scammed and had the wool pulled over our eyes it HURTS! It hurts as if we actually “lost” something real, because for US it was REAL. We FELT IT!
Then we feel so “stoooopid” for being fooled so badly. But let me reassure you, there are lots of SMART people on this site that have been also “fooled” so you are not alone there, and you are NOT “stooopid” and you are not the first or the last to be conned by these wack jobs of EVIL!
Keep on reading, keep on learning, and keep on reinforcing that the VISION you “saw” and felt and thought was real was an illusion….but your pain is REAL, but it will pass. Maybe not as quickly as the illusion of the con job, but it will pass, so keep on walking the path toward healing, toward recovering your sense of a WHOLE SELF. God bless.
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Thursday, 26 November 2009 @ 9:52pm
newlife08 says:
HAPPY THANKSGIVING TO ALL !!!!
Thank you for the friends I have made here , the advice I have been given, the patience to listen and help me work things through.
Thanks to Donna for her devotion and dedication to this site and all who pass through and those that stay awhile.
Thanks to all those who write articles and share their wisdom -
and those who take the time to comment.
My life has been touched deeply by finding this site and others here – you know who you are !!!!
Blessings to all ……………
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Thursday, 26 November 2009 @ 11:13pm
LouiseGolem says:
About five months ago, the man I’d been seeing for over two years started to become a stranger to me. He’d always been kind of odd and unpredicatable, but his oddness and unpredicatability compounded. He started telling “jokes” that were more frightening than funny. About three months ago, on a visit to my place, he started assessing the value of the things in my apartment, the art on my walls, my antiques. I kicked him out–I suddenly started asking myself – what if he has had other motives all along? Shaking all over, I entered a few keywords about his personality – especially that he seemed to mirror whomever he was with – into a Google search, and that was the first time I found a description of a sociopath, and applied it to him. It was chilling and frightening, because it fit him to a “T.” On that day, too, I found this website.
My first attempt at a break-up backfired because I weakened and went back to him. Fairly quickly, he got weird again. I broke up again. It’s been about a month. Still some contact, but I’m making myself more and more distant.
I’m with my family this Thanksgiving. And thankful, oh so thankful. This website and this blog were the first place that made me turn the mirror on myself. It’s been a hard three months, looking at myself in the mirror again, after two years of mirroring him. In addition to being sexually abusive, he was very verbally abusive to me throughout the relationship, and the break-up (and counseling I’ve sought!) has helped me see how he played with my brain.
Last week was the first week I felt that brain was my own again.
Now that’s something to be thankful for, and this website and blog has been one of the many things that have helped me. Thank You!
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Friday, 27 November 2009 @ 1:47am
ErinBrock says:
Okay…..
I had a wonderful Thanksgiving…..thoroughly enjoyed myself and the company we were in!!!!!
Cooked, drank good wine, all the kids, friends and new aquantances……
It was wonderful watching the kids, along with my Gf’s kids take some initiative in the kitchen….some of the kids made deviled eggs, one did a chees plate, my oldest decided he wanted to make his mom her favorite pecan pie with homemade crust….one kid made gravy, one did the mashed potoes….All 11 to 19 years old…..it was really cool!!!!
The conversation ranged from real estate business transactions to ‘readings’ of our turkish coffee grinds….to avoiding detentions at school. Everyone gathered in the kitchen, no one disappeared off alone…..we ALL conversed and enjoyed….whatever age.
So we come home…..10:30…..I’m so wiped out (the wine/champagne) I’m sure!
, not to mention the glutten I made of myself!!!
We all decided to go to bed…..NOT BURN THE MIDNIGHT OIL…..
I conked out…..I got woken up by some banging noises…..I lay in bed wondering what in the hell…..they continue……whenever I hear banging downstairs, It always triggers me….I perk up and try to listen for someone who may be breaking in…….after a bit, it became apparant it wasn’t a break in…..I called my oldests cell phone…..’HEY…..what in the heck are you banging…” Okay….it’s 3am peeps…..I told him….I was in a dead sleep……you woke me up….he says….well come down here Mom……Sometimes when he can’t sleep (and God knows what project will come out of knowwhwere!)….he sometimes wants to talk…..so I crawl my butt out of bed……throw the robe on and open my bedroom door…..
ALL OF MY KIDS WERE UP and DECORATING THE HOUSE FOR CHRISTMAS!!!!!!
Holy Moly…….the house is now Christmassed up! With the Little drummer boy (my favorite) playing on one kids surround sound loudly…..and all!
Lights EVERYWHERE!!!! Inside/outside….all kids rooms were lite up, bedposts, drapery, stockings, and all the garb……
I walk down the stairs in awe and they put their arms around me and hug me as we look up at all the lights…….
They say….You like it Mom?????
Yes……THANK YOU…..Mom loves it!!!!
I really am so very blessed!
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Friday, 27 November 2009 @ 6:19am
pollyannanomore says:
Tonight I came home to a house that was empty of the lies I have lived with for a decade. It was dark and quiet and lonely but there was PEACE. His things are gone, his room is empty and several little animals are lying sleeping on my bed.
I don’t know what the future holds, but I know it will be brighter than the past because it will be the truth and real and not an illusion, making excuses or pretending things are much better than they are. I am sorry he is somewhere strange tonight and I am sorry I lost all those years. I am sorry for the woman who was buried under all the pain and grief of living with him.
Tonight I spent time with an old friend and consciously tried not to think of what has occupied every waking minute for all the time I can recall in memory = how to untangle and make sense of the enigma I lived with. Tonight I was brave and asked a woman I met if she would like to meet up for coffee one day soon – I think I made a new friend after so many years of hiding away from society feeling untouchable and inadequate.
I have many things to be thankful for. My health ain’t great but I know it will improve now. The animals who live with me are well fed and well loved. I have my mind. I have my heart. This horror has not ended my ability to reach out … and now I do it in authenticity and reverance for the journey to Hades I have gone on – no more lies, no more pretending a man who wishes me ill loves me, no more excusing his toxic behaviour. I am getting free.
I am so thankful for all of you here.
Erin – what a wondrous gift from your children and how marvellous you have such appreciation for it. Your love is flowing both ways freely with no impediments via a man who wished you harm.
Louise I can relate to your shock at finding a match in symptoms and starting to put the pieces together – I had the same shock, disbelief, horror and awe. Peace to you – you are further along than me – we are safer alone.
Heavenbound … can relate to the miserable holidays! Every special event marred by his pathology. I look forward to a festive season free from someone who wanted to destroy me and couldn’t hide it during times of celebration. I remember my disappointment every special event – I would put in such effort shopping and spending all day preparing special foods, choosing special gifts and offering it all up to have it treated with indifference or feigned gratitude (that didn’t come close to being authentic or sincere)
I have had something from the Bible running through my head in the last couple of weeks
“Better a meal of herbs where there is love than a feast where there is none.”
Style – that is how I feel now too. I don’t NEED like I used to. It would have to be someone exceptional that I would consider to share a place in my life.
Spirit – The song is by Sheryl Crowe and I love it … it fits so well with these sick relationships …
“God I feel like Hell tonight
Tears of rage I cannot hide
Try and let me understand
Are you strong enough to be my man?
Nothing’s true and nothing’s right
Just let me be alone tonight
Cause you can’t change the way I am
Are you strong enough to be my man?
Lie to me … I promise I’ll believe
Lie to me … but please don’t leave”
Matt – that is wonderful you have met someone special – a little time has brought huge change for you and well deserved
Happy Thanksgiving everyone!
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Friday, 27 November 2009 @ 8:12am
lostingrief says:
hi everyone,
sounds like many had a wonderful holiday with family and/or friends. it’s good to hear.
i am very grateful for everyone here, thankful that LF saved my life, and that i’m still standing. it wasn’t easy. 16 months NC, but i’m still counting because nothing has taken the place of what i thought i had … a life.
working 10 hour days at the thankless job of high school teacher, and college at night with a pathological professor. can’t afford my rent, but can’t move because of the bankruptcy. family is still seeing me as the ‘lost’ member who can’t pull it together. friends have disappeared, or have put up with me.
i’ve gotten obese, none of my clothes fit me and i can’t afford new ones. i look like a rag. my hair is three shades from coloring the gray myself. i am constantly in pain from head to toe, but my doctor is tired of taking tests and finding nothing wrong. i’m definitely depressed.
i spent yesterday alone, eating left over salad and chinese food, trying to work on four major projects for my masters, all due in the next 10 days. instead, i did almost nothing but sleep.
don’t get me wrong. i’m happy to be spath free. i’m thankful i have a job. thankful i have a roof over my head. but one twist and i’ll be homeless and will have NO where to go. i’m 51 — with NO energy to start again — and i’m basically terrified. i’m still going to church, but the endless ‘you create your prosperity’ speeches are wearing mighty thin.
this life is not of my design, although every self-help guru seems to think we create our own reality. i used to think that too. i have seen and heard too much to believe that any of us created or wanted what we got.
okay, i’m going down a bad path here.
i’ve never intentionally hurt anyone in my life, have always aided the underdogs of our world, tried to be good, have generously given, because that’s what i believe we are all meant to do.
now i’m just bitter as hell that no one is looking out for me, and i’m seen as just another fat, middle-aged woman to be scorned. when i threw that little effing s/p/n out of my world, he turned around as he walked down the staircase and said, ‘just face it, NO one fu#King wants YOU!’
he was right.
meantime, he still has his house and his wife and kids and his new girlfriend and their new baby and his 100K job and his car and 100 friends doting on him every minute.
i’ve tried SO hard to be okay, to smile and be happy, to pray and believe and work hard and move forward.
the reality is … i’m faking it and i’m tired.
thanks for letting me vent.
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Friday, 27 November 2009 @ 9:01am
lostingrief says:
polly:
“hiding away from society feeling untouchable and inadequate.” ouch. :::crying::: because that’s totally where i’m at. i don’t think anyone should have to see me.
maybe i need furry little animals, too.
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Friday, 27 November 2009 @ 9:04am
Spirit40 says:
Dear Lostingrief:
They all say this : none one is going to want a fat single mother who is 40… LOL that is what you think a– hole… its really what they think of themselves no one but another victim is going to want a 40 year old toothless ex convict alcoholic with no future.
That is the truth not that we wont ever find anyone, we are the ones capable of emotions, we are the ones who can have meaningful relationships when we are ready, the universe does have someone special out there for us, I know its easy to say… but I believe that good will come to those of us who truly are worthy of it. They are not worthy of it, they reap what they sow.
I think your an inspiration for me, I am working on my BLS, then maybe my masters, he was jealous to say the least, after all I came from uneducated peasants and his parents went to fine schools….. he who couldnt get a decent job or into college…
devalued, did not respect me or my decisions to better myself, did nothing to boost me up just bring me down, well I refuse to be held back, I am stronger than that, he cant break me, I wont let him. Good luck to you I know I am quite new here but I read a inspirational quote by Iylana Van Zant…. when you let go of what is not working basically the universe will bring something that will work…good luck, keep hanging in and if we have to whats wrong with faking it … till we make it ..the longer we struggle to hold on the stronger we become.
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Friday, 27 November 2009 @ 10:16am
Isabell says:
Today, I am thankful for finally recognizing the early physical detection signals that something is not right; and for having the courage to set a boundary to protect this Holiday for myself, and my children.
Growing up, “Drama Ramma” was always on the menu at family Holiday gatherings. It was inevidable.
My younger sister, whom I love dearly, is triggered by the Holidays to go into what my kids call, “Crazy Mode.”
I went to the grocery store. My sister called to discuss what she will bring to Thanksgiving. She wanted to know what I was planning. I told her simple, relaxed and peacful; a non-stress day was on my agenda.
Within a minute of talking to her, my stomach was in knots, and my anxiety level shot way up. Under the umbrella of her “generousity” she beganquestioning my choices for menu selections, how I was going to prepare them, and “told” me what she was going to do, taking control, setting the agenda, and dictating her expectations. Red Flags demanded that I pay attention to my anxiety.
Another telephone conversation quickly turned into guilt trips for not being as busy as she is, her daunting night ahead, without sleep, cooking all night, and questioning why I wasn’t in full food preparation mode so I could have things “ready for her” according to “her exectations” the next day. Mind you, she was invited as a guest to my house; suddenly the Holiday was about her.
Between food related conversation she started digging up the past unjustices that other’s have committed against her (limitations they had set with her, due to her periods of excessive drinking). And, I knew, this was a slippery slope.
By the end of our conversation there was a great deal of guilting for not raving about her on MySpace, or Facebook, jealousies about my close friends that are sane, rational, and totally supportive, protective, and value me. Red flag, red flag, red flag, red flag…
Finally she brought up an family moment from 17 years ago, to which she has completely rewritten history; pulling out her big guilt guns, trying to convince me of her benevolence, and how she was the victim of conspiracy, and injustice. With that, I offered to show her the documentation, legal and otherwise (as you all know by know, I save everything), with that, she hung up on me.
The next morning, she calls my teen daughter as if nothing happened to announce she’d be at our house at 10:00, with the turkey, and other menu items. I sent a text back, telling her to check her e-mail.
The e-mail stated (in summary). “I am heading out to the store to pick up a turkey. The kids and I want a day without tension. I love you, and will always love you. Get some rest today.”
She called and left messages on my teen daughter’s phone, “Hi, this is Aunt….., Honey, I tried. I’m sorry, but I tried. I’ve been cooking all night. And, well your mother… I’m just really sorry. Ok. I love you. I guess I won’t be seeing you today. It’s your mother’s choice.” It was all very pathetic.
when I told the kids that she would not be spending the day with us, they were relieved. “Thank you, Mom. She makes us feel uncomfortable. When you are not in the room, she gets weird, angry and bossy; she treats us like we did something wrong. Then when you walk back in, she does that hyper goofy mode. She’s crazy.”
Yesterday, me and my three youngest children had a wonderfully relaxing day. They helped e prepare the food, set the table, and clean up the mess. We watched three movies throughout the day, together, listened to Christmas music, and fully enjoyed one another…Drama Ramma free.
For this, I am totally greatful!
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Friday, 27 November 2009 @ 10:18am
Spirit40 says:
UGGGHHHHH I want to scream………just rcvd an email, blah blah blah, hold onto the rest of my stuff with yours , mine with my stuff, I have to sell everything I own , does he not realize this ? does he really think I am keeping all my stuff in storage, no I have to sell what is in a two bedroom apt and move into a studio , its always about them he barely owns anything he can survive with one bag ?
I was doing well now I am angry and trying not to respond with my angry emails back, the first one I held it together… how can he email if he is supposedly in a “program”…… aahhahahhahahha I hate this !!!!!!
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Friday, 27 November 2009 @ 11:18am
style1 says:
Henry, yes inquiring about HIV and STD’s was bizarre and there is something that he wasn’t revealing completely. But he was not after me for money.. he lives in a pricey highrise in Ft. Lauderdale.. but the point is that when he revealed that he had cancer or was recovering from it.. and who knows really.. and his photo of what he looked like after chemo, I should’ve said my goodbyes..but I was kind… my usualy kind self.. why would I want to meet a 61 year old that had never been married, had cancer and looks gaunt? STUPID ME!
THen he emails that he wants a younger woman.. it’s almost comical!..
Spirit 40…
Yes… mine little personal property.. he sold everything from the rental house that he had.. and he told me to pick anything to keep.. I selected a couple of things that are now in my house and that were his mothers. When he left he didn’t take these things.. and later he accuses me of keeping his property from him.. it’s ridiculous.. he would’ve sold everything had I not pulled a few pieces out.. and nothing is of any monetary value… and they have been in my house for two years now.. It’s just a ploy to talk to me, aggravate me and accuse me.. I cut off all communication months ago.. and will never see or talk to him again. He should’ve taken everything when he left. So I’d say don’t communicate.. sell whatever he left there…
And what is the deal with these people not having much property and getting rid of it so easy like it is nothing?
Is it because they live off others things.. or what? The ease with which mine sold his things was bizarre. Like nothing had any value to him.
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Friday, 27 November 2009 @ 11:52am
style1 says:
Then his sense of entitlement to my house and property. And even my car.. he mentioned that when ‘his ship’ comes in that he will buy me a new car and we can give my Jag to his daughter.. He was like I didn’t exist in the decision.. he just pronounces this..
I think it like was are to just do their bidding..
And I turned myself into a housewife at my own house.. making things nice for him and me too.. but I got into that wifey mode.. and I was miserable.. Last TG was a bore, I was unhappy. I was stressed..
and this year .. I am at peace.. I did and had what I wanted.. and he isn’t walking around my house like he is some kind of a king.
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Friday, 27 November 2009 @ 11:58am
style1 says:
How do you be kind without being a pushover..
I was reared to be kind and mannerly.. and predators take this as someone that they can control and manipulate. He was surprised when I wasn’t so easily led.. but still I was inflitrated.. like was this last guy in Ft. Lauderdale..
Why didn’t I drop the whole thing when he revealed he was getting over cancer…?
Had I told him this, he would’ve dropped me.
What makes me kind and giving others the benefit of the doubt..
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Friday, 27 November 2009 @ 12:01pm
Spirit40 says:
They are not kings! they think they are but they will always be the frog that no one wants to kiss because they have wayyyyyyyy too many warts… frogs are really cute but …way too slimy to kiss anyhow!!!!!
Yeah he felt entitled to spend my money, and wanted to drive my car without a license who needs a license to drive anyhow if you know how just do it!
Humiliated me last x mas eve, devalue discard….. I could not treat someone that way.. yes I fought back with words but to humiliate someone, telling the truth about someone is a whole other story…. intentionally lying and hurting someone … inexcusable…
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Friday, 27 November 2009 @ 12:06pm
style1 says:
When I told mine the truth of how I saw him.. and stated you are always talking about these million dollar deals but can barely pay your bills and you have nothing in savings and you sleep in a bed that I paid for.. then you act like I am not as intelligent as you are.. and why do you call you children all these stupid nick names like they are toddlers? He left.. he knew I saw him and he left. He knew that his facade was just that and I think a part of it is that they need to keep that facade for themselves… the look of his face was beyond distroyed.. and I tell him all this after he rants on about my not saying ‘you’re welcome’ to his thank you for doing his laundry.
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Friday, 27 November 2009 @ 12:36pm
OxDrover says:
TOWANDA ISABELL!!!
I am so oproud of you GF! You HONORED YOUR FEELINGS, and you SET A BOUNDARY—and true to form, she tried to play the pity party with your kids. I am so glad that they saw through this too!!!
Setting boundaries for these people is difficult because we are “supposed” to be “nice” to our family, but I tell you that if “blood family” is NOT respectful of your rights, your boundaries, then WE DO NOT NEED THEM. Period! that is why I am BC with my egg donor! She refuses, like your sister, to repsect me, to treat me with respect (or even kindness) and of course she BLAMES ME, but you know, I do NOT accept her blame. Her “opinion” is not TRUTH no matter how loudly she says it or how many people believe her.
Style, dear, that’s just the way they are, taking over, entitled to what is ours, and “living like Kings” as you say!
The guy in Ft. Lauderdale telling you that he wanted a “younger” woman than you is actually a HOOT–kind of like the “you can’t fire me, I quit” ploy when you are in trouble at work. ha ha I sincerely doubt that he will find ANY woman unless she is BLIND AND STUPID. Or unless he has enough money to buy a woman like Anna Nichole Smith as a woman/wife.
Where does being “nice” end and allowing abuse begin? I think the answer to that question is when YOU are uncomfortable with how that person is treating you.
A while back, I tried to help someone who presented herself as an “abuse” victim, but before too much time had passed I realized Ii was “walking on egg shells” to keep from “offending her”—as soon as I recognized this, I realized that she was conning me with her pretense of being an abused victim, at BEST she was a co-abuser in her former relationship, she felt entitled, as a “victim” of course, to not do anything for herself, but to have people tip toe around her and not upset her. Well, let me tell you, when someone else is providing the roof over your head, you are the one who should be accomodating to them, not the other way round.
I make the rules in my house, if I say “no smoking” you better not light up a cigar and then get mad at me for pointing to the NO SMOKING sign! You do NOT have a God-given right to smoke IN MY HOUSE.
If you want me to drive you somewhere because you don’t have a car, don’t gripe because the car you USED to have was better than the clunker I drive.
Any time you feel yourself being “taken advantage of” by someone you are trying to be “nice” to, RED FLAG. Anytime someone criticises you for giving them a gift because it wasn’t what they wanted, anytime someone tells you what a “bad” or “inadequate” person you are, compared to them, RED FLAGS!!! RUN!!!
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Friday, 27 November 2009 @ 12:48pm
Stargazer says:
I’m so glad I stopped succumbing to the peer pressure of Thanksgiving that says “you have to be with your (or another) family”; you can’t spend it alone. I actually opted to spend it with just my animals and online friends and felt very peaceful. Just so I wouldn’t feel deprived, I cooked a turkey dinner with all the fixings so I’d have leftovers for several days. I don’t know if I’ll continue this tradition of having to cook every year (usually I cook and have people over). I’m almost wishing I’d just gone out to my favorite Indian buffet for $8.95 all you can eat. the worst part is suffering the judgmentalness of my co-workers when I tell them I didn’t go anywhere. I may just lie to them.
I did actually invite a two of my massage clients (who are brothers), thinking they wouldn’t have plans. But they had some long lost family thing they were going to, so I was happy to be by myself this year. So much better than all the years of dysfunctional family events.
BTW, Style1, that guy you talked about with leukemia….I get the feeling your age has nothing to do with why he rejected you. I think maybe it was an excuse for something else having to do with his health issues. Just a feeling–I could be wrong.
Oxy, though I think the world of you, reading your posts about the limited opportunities of women makes me feel so sad and hopeless. I like to think of connections between people as having less to do with their age and more to do with the connection itself. I don’t think the spirit knows age. It only becomes a big deal when we make a big deal out of it. But I certainly understand this thinking because at 49, it’s something that goes through my mind during times of hopelessness. When I start thinking about my age, I can get very depressed about it. So I think it’s extremely important for me not to go there in my thoughts but just to be open to real genuine connections I could have with others. I certainly had more “opportunies” [i.e. more men lusting over me] when I was younger. But I feel the connections I could make now would be more genuine so it balances out. Would I get a face lift a la Demi Moore if I had the money, though? You bet I would.
Also, while it’s true that there are a lot of predators on the internet, I have read that 1 in 8 married couples met on the internet. Therefore, it is also a good tool just for meeting people. It doesn’t mean you should automatically trust these people, develop feelings BEFORE meeting them, or avoid scrutinizing them. They guys I meet on the internet are subject to much more scrutiny than the ones I meet in RL. Most of the ones I talk to turn out not to be predators, but to just be very needy. As Style1 says, I don’t really need a man, so a very needy one puts me off right away. Anyway, hope it’s okay to disagree with you on this. I know where you are coming from 100%.
Hugs,
Star
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Friday, 27 November 2009 @ 1:21pm
style1 says:
Setting boundaries… I just spoke to my father on the phone and had a deeper realization. While he and I are close, I never feel good enough in his eyes.. while I hear from others how proud he is of me.. so I grew up feeling disaproved of by a man, my father… so I try to pleased him.. then after my mother dies he dates this woman that physically is like myself.. petite with long dark hair.. even my sisters remark about this.. and they think that I am my father’s favorite while at times, I feel this but mostly I feel disapproved of.. so after talking to him on the phone, I have this vague unworthy feeling going on…and I am certain that this feeling is what lets me stay in relationships… I feel I ahve to be better on whatever level while the men aren’t really even good enough for me… but I think Ineed to be kind, considerate, understanding when they aren’t that with me…
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Friday, 27 November 2009 @ 1:22pm
Stargazer says:
Style1, just out of curiosity, could you identify the behavior that triggered this feeling? Is it something your father says, or the tone of his voice?
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Friday, 27 November 2009 @ 1:26pm
style1 says:
Star,
Thanks and I agree.. and it feels like a low blow to be rejected because of my age after I was kind concerning his issues.. and I agree.. that there is something off with him…
I also, agree that you can meet people anywhere that are bad and that are good.. internet or in real life… I have met just as many cons in real life… and on the Internet, you can question and talk before even meeting to ascertain and have things revealed.. just like with this Leukemia guy.. but had I met him in person, I would have seen his gauntness and turned from him…
I am peaceful but also melancholy in that, meeting good people that are who they are and not playing games and who are after things seems impossible.. I at times, wish that I could be like they are.. but then I wouldn’t have my soul and sleep so well and like myself … huh? And I wouldn’t look so young for my age…
Eyes… look into someones eyes … they say alot..
My last guy kept saying.. your eyes they are so beautiful, so clear… have so much light in them…. several men have been attracted to my light.. do I hide it? Or just be me and learn to be more discerning….? Boundaries and discerning… and self-aware and protective.. but then who can you let become close… ?? Learn to be self-centered and self-sufficient … well, I was and am.. and sitll that last guy slinked in.. as that is what attracted him to me…
gets confusing don’t you all think?
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Friday, 27 November 2009 @ 1:54pm
style1 says:
Star,
Well, he tells you about himself.. and what he is doing directly and, of course, I inquired.. then I tell him about me.. then he warns me about something… then he tells me that he is doing something and needs to get back to it.. I think it is his tone.. his self-absorption. He is a narcissist.. and was an alcholic, very functional and successful and takes care of his family, moral, kind, manners, prominent .. and that makes him who that he is.. he expects alot… and I am the best of his lot and my sisters are jealous of me to some extent.. and they exclude me and he holds me out as special but then treats me rather negatfull but he does that to others also…it’s confusing.. I just always felt that I was not good enough for him… even when I succeeded… he says good going but it doesn’t seem sincere.. thisis going to sound weird.. but I think that he wanted a woman like me as a wife.. instead of my mom who was subservient and quiet.. I make noise and stand up for me.. He told a friend that I always tell him the truth and that I am always right.. It blew my mind when I heard this..
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Friday, 27 November 2009 @ 2:01pm
style1 says:
I don’t feel good enough.
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Friday, 27 November 2009 @ 2:02pm
Stargazer says:
Style1,
That behavior of him always being the one to cut a phone call short reminds me of a long-time male friend of mine that I once dated for a year or so. We have stayed friends, but I notice every time we talk, he is the one who has to go. He usually goes into a long thing about what he has to do….. I have noticed this always makes me feel also rejected/unworthy of his time. As a result, I am beginning to limit my contact with him and keep calls short on my end. It hurt me for a number of years without my even realizing it. I consider it a form of emotional neglect.
If your sisters are jealous of you, no doubt they experience that same feeling of emotional neglect and imagine you are the one getting the “love” they’re not getting. I think this is one of the reasons my sister always hated me.
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Friday, 27 November 2009 @ 2:10pm
Stargazer says:
Style1, I also think it’s harder for men to talk about feelings. Sometimes they get overwhelmed, especially if they are introverted. I don’t know your father but it’s possible he thinks more highly of you than you realize but just can’t verbalize it. He may even feel threatened by a strong woman and not know how to respond. I’m just throwing out ideas because I don’t know the situation.
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Friday, 27 November 2009 @ 2:17pm
OxDrover says:
Dear Star,
Yes, no I am not so concerned with looks of someone, but on what is INSIDE, but because many men are MORE CONCERNED about looks etc than what is actually inside, I realize there are ONLY A FEW men in the world I would have even with “an apple in their mouths, baked on a platter” so since there are relativly fewer men “available” and even of the ones who are actually “available” I woudl not want 99.9% of them anyway—so the statistical chances of a ‘relationship” tht I would be interested in is pretty slim, but I DO have RELATIONSHIPS, just not romantic ones—but that is OK with me now. I dont’ have to have a romantic relationship to be “complete”—and frankly there was a time when I felt that without it, I was NOT WHOLE. Now I realize that ONE is a WHOLE NUMBER, not just “half of two.”
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Friday, 27 November 2009 @ 4:15pm
style1 says:
Star,
I think that you are correct. Dad makes me feel that something is always more important than I am. And He does that to us all.. A couple of years ago, I was visiting him. He had been ill and a friend was with me and I hugged Dad and when we left the house my male friend asked, “Is your father ever affectionate? You were trying to give him love and he was so cold.”
And I thought about it. Dad is cold.. but in a loving way. I mean he tells me that he loves me and on occasion is very thoughtful. But it is kind of wierd. And he can be very cold of he is upset with you. I am sure that it is a form of emotional abuse. But on other levels, he is a good father.. Like us all, good and bad.. and yes, he has trouble expressing himself .. I can’t intellectually know all that but I still don’t feel good enough when I am around him and if I am supposed to be the favorite.. think how my sisters might feel…I am sure that they way that I was treated affects the men that I chose or that are attracted to me…THat is why this last one.. that was so affectionate was nice in ways.. He showered attention on me… it felt suffocating but I had never had anyone give me so much time and attention, phone calls, texts, flowers.. I didn’t trust it and it hurts when I questioned and then realized .. he was being evicted the day that he moved into my house. I felt slapped in the face. His attention was out of his need for something. I do think he had affection for me.. but he could have easily been for the next woman with a house and resources. He did buy me things, etc. He wasn’t cheap considering his circumstances. It is all confusing to me at times.. and I just got back from working out with a client that is moving away. It is like change and more change and I feel alone just now.
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Friday, 27 November 2009 @ 5:41pm
style1 says:
I often had the feelings what is it that men want? I am a gourmet cook, an interior designer, I keep an emmculate house. I am a former ballet dancer and keep myself in really good shape. I am kind, intelligent, moral and adventuresome.
I always feel with men that I am not enough. Like with this last one. I had a well-decorate house, a car, money, do my projects, workout, cooked him incredible meals. I turn heads when out.. he always commented how beautiful that I am. I cared for his dying mother.. and I became exhausted with it all..then when I met his daughter and she was an emotional basket case. throwing up on me that she had been molested by her mother in the first 24 hours that I met it her.. it was all tooooo much.. I felt dumped on, drained and what wasI getting out of it. I didn’t feel secure, happy, content, I got lots of attention and complitments but I also gave a ton… I do not know anymore how people get togther or why??? Men just keep wanting more and more.. He told me that he needed a supportive woman.. what woman could’ve or would’ve been more supportive? I was never sexually attracted to him even though he is handsome… so that was wierd and am sure hurt him.. but he didn’t seem all that sexual attactually.. I don’t know.. going through a down spell..
people need to be willing to work on themsleves.. and he sure gave lip service to that when we first met.. but in the end I got the blame for most everything… even no saying you’re welcome to his thank you… so why aren’t I ‘good’ enough… My father told him that he was lucky to have met a woman like me. and my father liked him.. he ‘thought’ that he was a man that could take care of his daughter but it was facade.. but we made a good looking couple.. it is all bizarre to me just now… I feel a bit alone now..
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Friday, 27 November 2009 @ 5:50pm
FriendOfABorderline says:
Style1:
You sound like an amazing woman! Any man in his right mind would feel lucky to have you. And that’s the key, “in his right mind’. There are so many disordered people in the world, and there are even those who are not disordered but envious of others accomplishments and/or overly greedy (well maybe that still counts as disordered I don’t know).
There are also good people who encourage their friends and loved ones, who celebrate their successes. I hope that you find someone who can appreciate all that you have to offer.
Sounds like you’ve run across too many people that the old adage was written about: “give them an inch and they’ll take a mile”. Normal people are appreciative for what they are given and don’t become greedy and demanding for more and more. His whole family sounds dysfunctional, and that’s got nothing to do with you.
Repeat after me, “I am amazing and any man in his right mind would feel lucky to have me!”. Hope you move out of your down spell into an up spell soon.
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Friday, 27 November 2009 @ 6:26pm
Cat says:
style, Please don’t allow him to make you doubt yourself. This is the power they have even after they leave. You are a warm, loving, giving person and the right man will come along. I, too, have questioned my worth given what I was told about myself by my ex P.
I’m not a man, but I think what you have to offer is so much. Trust in time that person will come to you. I’ve come to find that timing is often in God’s hands and I believe He puts people in our lives when we are ready.
In a way, I can thank my ex P because he taught me all about red flags and I use that knowledge today.
Recently, I heard from an old b/f. Now, I haven’t seen him in 2 years and have communicated now and then by email. He has sent me kisses and hugs, e-cards and all that stuff. I haven’t responded to any of that stuff. I kept it as a friendly, distant friendship. He told me he wanted me to take him to have some dental work done and that I was the ONLY person he trusted to take him there and get him safely home. Red flags went up all over the place. How can he say that after not having seen me all that time? My answer to him was “NO”. Something wasn’t right and I’m so glad I got that right away. Somewhere along the line I’m learning lessons and they work.
You ARE an amazing woman!
Sending hugs, Cat
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Friday, 27 November 2009 @ 6:41pm
style1 says:
F of a borderline and Cat.. thank you for the pep talks… I showered and feel better.. just alone.. I am lonely … and I enjoy being alone but I am lonely and that is okay.. yes.. I agree.. it is in God’s hands if and when couples come together.. and yes, his family was terribly troubled with an intense past full of illness and dyfunction.. all families have some but his wow….and I knew from the get go something was off.. and I didn’t give my whole self… This is not my first time at the rodeo.. 10 years ago I had a 4 year relationship with a man that I really did love .. and he turned out to be bad news… and I hadn’t really allowed myself to even hope that their might be man until this last one… so I am just I don’t know.. I need to focus on my projects and with this down time because of the holidays.. it is nice as time to relax but holidays can be rough as everyone on here knows in that the memories good and bad from all the ones before..
I have really worked on myself.. and am proud that I saw the red flags with this man so reserved myself and delayed his push into marriage…geez had I married him.. what a nightmare.. but this recent man telling me that he wants a younger woman.. just was like another nail …
I don’t know how to be any better… if I am not good enough at whatever age.. this is who that I am… and I actually haven’t met a man that is good enough for me… I think that I intimidate many men… then they try to put you down.. men don’t like a smart woman..
It freaks me to read about the ladies on here that have given men money… NEVER NEVER NEVER DO that anyone EVER!
It makes me sick actually… once a man I was dating forgot his wallet and I paid for a pizza etc and it pissed me off….
and we had been friends for years…I don’t respect a man that doesn’t pay for a woman…
That is one reason I didn’t respect the man that I was last with.. a man should buy the house.. and care for the woman not the other way around… I don’t think I loved him because I couldn’t respect him. I felt he slinked into my life. He commented once.. I have other places I could go..
I mean DISGUSTING.. that made me feel so warm and loved…
I just feel kind of beaten up tonight so thank you for your pep talks…I really appreciate them and am thankful…
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Friday, 27 November 2009 @ 7:34pm
Spirit40 says:
They all say they have other places to go, always have a back up, someone on the back burner, one or two old gf’s or bf’s or both if they are bi…..they sofa surf, bed hop, etc etc… what wonderful people they are NOT
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Friday, 27 November 2009 @ 8:05pm
style1 says:
He meant moving in with his daughter and her husband.. college kids… or this older couple that were friends with his mother and that is where he is now…
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Friday, 27 November 2009 @ 8:57pm
Stargazer says:
Style says:
“I often had the feelings what is it that men want? I am a gourmet cook, an interior designer, I keep an emmculate house. I am a former ballet dancer and keep myself in really good shape. I am kind, intelligent, moral and adventuresome.”
Style1, I’ll marry you! LOL I may even consider switching teams for someone with these qualities.
Knowledge is power. It’s GREAT that you have identified the feeling and the thought process (not good enough) that happens when you are around your father. Only when you make this connection can you consciously work on that erroneous thought. However, you may need to sit quietly with that “feeling”, writing about it, trying to describe it, and letting memories surface around it. Sounds like you have not gotten to the bottom of it yet, and that will probably be a big healing for you when you do. You go, girl!
Oxy, I totally understand what you mean about men being so visual and a culture that is so focused on youth and physical beauty. It really sucks. In spite of how I feel I am so much more interesting and available than I was when I was younger and teasing boys, I would still have plastic surgery in a second to make myself look younger. It just becomes depressing for me to focus on the reality of how few men there are for a woman my age. I feel attitude is so important, and we can increase our odds of attracting men by being really positive about it. One of the prohibitive factors for me in dating is not so much my age but my IQ. I rarely ever find men that are intelligent or interesting enough to hold my attention, never mind one that is moderately attractive (at any age). Anyway, I have a feeling if I end up meeting a guy it will be someone a little younger anyway. I may just not be the marrying type, and I’ll be okay with that too. I’ve certainly had many opportunities, and they weren’t all smucks. Some of them were wonderful and would have made great husbands. Anyway, with all this rambling I was trying to say that your point is taken, and I totally get where you are coming from.
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Friday, 27 November 2009 @ 9:02pm
Stargazer says:
You know, the worst part about spending the holidays alone is trying to defend it to the people in my life. They look at me with such pity. Their looks of pity doesn’t match how I feel inside. So sometimes I just lie and say I had people come over. That’s something they can relate to.
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Friday, 27 November 2009 @ 9:26pm
style1 says:
Star..
Who cares what someone else thinks!?.. I have cooked huge dinners for many, gone to two family dinners in one day, had visited friends that had many over, and it’s been just me and another and have spent several alone..pretty soon they all run together….
More people than you think…are envious of those alone…
when I had tons of people around me … there were times that I thought … how great that it would be to be alone.. so it’s just where you are at any given time.. no big deal…
I have a girlfriend married to a man and together they have six kids.. and she would love time alone…I just made past primavera and now am sipping wine sitting in my bed.. munching on ginger cookies.. does it get any better?… not much!
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Friday, 27 November 2009 @ 10:05pm
Stargazer says:
Style1,
I really don’t care what they think. I just can’t stand the look of pity. Them projecting all their beliefs onto me. Ugh.
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Friday, 27 November 2009 @ 11:05pm
Isabell says:
Oxy,
Wow!!!! You said it… And, I’m going to repeat it!!!
“A while back, I tried to help someone who presented herself as an “abuse” victim, but before too much time had passed I realized Ii was “walking on egg shells” to keep from “offending her”—as soon as I recognized this, I realized that she was conning me with her pretense of being an abused victim, at BEST she was a co-abuser in her former relationship, she felt entitled, as a “victim” of course, to not do anything for herself, but to have people tip toe around her and not upset her. Well, let me tell you, when someone else is providing the roof over your head, you are the one who should be accomodating to them, not the other way round.
I make the rules in my house, if I say “no smoking” you better not light up a cigar and then get mad at me for pointing to the NO SMOKING sign! You do NOT have a God-given right to smoke IN MY HOUSE.
If you want me to drive you somewhere because you don’t have a car, don’t gripe because the car you USED to have was better than the clunker I drive.
Any time you feel yourself being “taken advantage of” by someone you are trying to be “nice” to, RED FLAG. Anytime someone criticises you for giving them a gift because it wasn’t what they wanted, anytime someone tells you what a “bad” or “inadequate” person you are, compared to them, RED FLAGS!!! RUN!!! ”
RUN!… RUN!… RUN!! The sooner, the better. When we wait too long to recognize the Red Flags, when we make excuses, and justify, minimize or give the benefit of the doubt (more then once), we become self-abusive. I am SO guilty of doing this most of my life. In the name of being nice…In the name of family, because blood is thicker then water…In the name of being a “Christian,” we deny ourselves the right to protect ourselves.
In my sister’s effort to guilt me for setting boundaries with her, she said…”Then, Christ is not in you.” WOW!!!! Really?
I responded, “Jesus teaches if we are not welcomed (respected) in our own hometown, we are to dust our feet off, and move on. He didn’t say, stick around, because you are blood, and allow them to abuse you. Furthermore, I don’t recall where the Bible instructs us to belittle, devalue, demean, guilt, those that set boundaries with us, either.”
She sent an email response, “So how does it feel to break someone’s heart just so you can prove you are in control?”
Hmmm….
I didn’t respond. And, I won’t.
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Saturday, 28 November 2009 @ 2:16am
ErinBrock says:
Isabelle:
You set a boundary. Others do not have to like them……thats why YOU CALL IT YOUR boundary!
Not theirs.
IT sounds as if your sister is not used to having to live amongst boundaries……of others……
BUMMER….
You need to do what you need to do to be healthy and happy…..
RIGHT NOW…..its’ all about YOU!!!
She can yell or scream, judge or throw god around…….but your doing the right thing….don’t respond…..
It’s NOT personal! She’s pissed your in control of YOUR life!
Keep your umbrella down in the rain girl…..sounds like she’s sending lightning bolts your way!!!
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Saturday, 28 November 2009 @ 2:47am
Iwonder says:
Happy belated Thanksgiving everyone. I am so happy everyone got through it. Now comes Christmas…Ugh. Well, I had a nice meal at my parents and one of my sisters, my niece, her 2 kids too. Uneventful, but that’s good!
LIG: Stay strong. Last year we didn’t hook-up in NYC for Christmas, but maybe this year we should. You just let me know. At least you are busy and working toward getting your masters. That is awesome!!
Hey Superstar! I wish I had a job so I could have afforded an airline ticket to have Thanksgiving with you. Like I said, when I’m working again, who knows? I just might show up next year! LOL!!
Matt: You’re doing so well! I’m out of work and it’s driving me crazy. I am applying everywhere and in between I volunteer for our county. I raked leaves last Saturday for an elderly woman and this week may tutor some kids after school.
Hi Style! About the internet dating thing…it’s a crapshoot. I went online and started dating again last year and none of the dates I had were bad ones. Nothing like the guy you were chatting with. You have to be careful. If someone tells you they are sick and start asking you about STD or HIV tests, red flags are flying. He’s looking for sex right away. Yikes! Don’t worry about the age thing. There are many younger guys who could care less.
I kicked my ex-S out in May 2008. I am still having residuals in the trust area. I met someone from a dating site 1/09. Things were fabulous. Then I started doubting. Started analyzing, started panicing that perhaps he was unreal and I got clingy and needy when I lost my job in July. He felt suffocated and we broke up Sept. But, now, we are starting to get back together and I had to explain from my heart that I have some issues and am working through them. We are taking one day at a time. We have a date Sunday and Thursday and he already told me he bought me a Christmas present…so, I am hopeful. I just wish we had been together Thanksgiving. Oh well.
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Saturday, 28 November 2009 @ 2:55am
pollyannanomore says:
Lost in Grief – sorry sorry sorry for all you are going through. It is so unfair and no you didn’t deserve any of it. That is what is so hard to understand and accept in all of this – we give everything … they take everything and then move on with no real consequences to themselves. You’re amazing to be almost done with your Masters while going through all this crap – testament to the woman you are and please believe that things will get better once you have that bit of paper and have lots more work options.
I have put on weight as well – comfort eating is such a trap! I think maybe we need a thread called the LF Weight loss challenge
It is minor though – weight can be gradually lost. You survived that war – you are alive and your mind is intact – you didn’t go mad (yes you have all kinds of horrible symptoms, but if you were stuck in a psych ward you wouldn’t have a lot of power or capability to change your life as you are). You have your heart still – yes you will be choosy about who you share it with next time, but from reading your posts to me and others – you have an amazing capacity for love and caring – he didn’t destroy that.
I know these things are of little consolation at times like this. Please don’t feel as I did – inadequate … that was THEIR BRAINWASHING!!! It isn’t true! I was able to socialise and talk with strangers as though the whole attack on my soul hadn’t happened. He made out I couldn’t handle the world or was somehow unfit to be seen – I don’t know if it was his words or behaviours that did that but the message was loud and clear. THEY WERE WRONG – you are fine and as soon as you strap on some pants that fit (I had to try several pairs to find some that didn’t leave me with flesh wounds from the waist band lol), a bit of lippy and get out there into the world you will find as I did they were LYING BASTARDS. There is nothing wrong with us that other people will notice … and hell if they DO notice, I will just tell them – if I am a bit shy it’s because I just got out of a relationship with an asshole
As to the hair issue – just a suggestion, but buy a home dye a shade darker than the darkest and do an all over job. It doesn’t cost a bucket and you’ll feel heaps better once it’s all one colour. And when you have a tiny bit of money – go and get yourself a nice cut – you deserve it and it will give you a visible boost for a few weeks – yeah it’s shallow, but it works
For touchups of roots either find a training college that does it cheap for student practice or swap with another ‘going grey’ friend – a colleague at work and I do each other. Mine started going grey at 21 and she’s 51 so we just sort each other out every six weeks or so. Salons are just too expensive but trying to do it yourself is a nightmare! You can get the proper brushes for a dollar from a drugstore. I would come over and do it for you if I lived close by – my colleague and I usually have a good gossip and coffee while we’re both ‘caped’ up with huge black rubbish bags with our grottiest towels wrapped around our necks !
The ex S has left everything in the house – that’s a pity ploy to make himself look like the good guy and also a mammoth dodge of any responsibility. I have a whole house full of junk to dispose of so I can move on out of here. I can’t really afford to live in the house by myself at the moment but I can’t face bringing a stranger into the midst of my emotional climate at present – I am still sorting through things and very much up and down – just like you LIG. I SHOULD be working on my Masters but have neither the energy nor the inclination. So many things feel like too much effort at the moment and for the first time in my life I am considering what I want to do rather than him or family members. It’s scary and uncharted territory for me.
Has anyone here looked into the work of Alice Miller? I have been reading through her site quite a bit today and what she says seems to make a lot of sense although in the past I haven’t advocated strongly against the odd light smack for guidance and correction. I am thinking now to go back through my own childhood to shine a light on the emotional abuse that happened way back then. I accept that my mother had her own problems (poor upbringing herself by a potentially borderline mother, raising me alone with no support and struggling with depression that she never sought help for) but that doesn’t cancel out the pain and fear I frequently experienced through childhood.
I believe these are the seeds that grew into a woman who accepted an emotionally abusing relationship as NORMAL. I have to go back even though I really don’t want to – I thought acknowledging it and ‘forgiving’ was enough, but I never got really angry about it. The site kind of freaked me out because people were posting letters cutting off relationships with their parents who abused them in some way leading to profound effects in adulthood. needless to say parents when confronted commit the behaviours we know so well – denial, minimisation, changing history, distortion, distraction, blaming, accusing us of creating drama or exaggerating, bringing up an irrelevant past.
I am lonely too. I am scared to make friends and feel very unanchored in the world. My co-workers look at me with pity when I describe weekend events or celebrations! I have lost the status I had as a wife and even though I acknowledge it had to happen it still sucks – I did everything possible to contribute to it working – I just hadn’t banked on a personality disorder erupting out of nowhere and knocking me on my ass.
LIG I can well relate – I feel damned angry and stupid and fed up at the waste. I look at all the items around the house and each represents a day when I went out and looked for something and raked through sale items trying to find the best quality for the cheapest price. I would bring home each item hoping somehow that if I built enough of a ‘home’ then everything would come right. Every object is imbued with hope and disappointment at his indifference towards my efforts – they all tell a story and while I can’t bear to look at them, I equally can’t afford to replace them and they are the least of my bitter feelings.
I should be settled in a warm and long relationship with someone who knows me implicitly and a comfort built up between the two of us. I should have a couple of small children and be focussed on living LIFE. Instead I live in my mind and am hyper aware of the passing of time, the decay that happens all around me and the urge of all things towards death. That is unfair to have your worldview changed so radically.
I have no support person here. My mother thinks I should be over it all as soon as he is gone. It is so unrealistic I just don’t know what to say. ‘Oh well it’s all done now so you won’t need to be reading anymore of this stuff or looking it up anymore – just let it go and move on with life.’ She doesn’t seem to understand t his is not something you just spring back from and that in order to move on with life I have to go through a grieving and healing process. She has been divorced herself but not with someone like this – she has no concept of what it is.
My friend I went out with had a socio boss a few yrs ago. He didn’t know the name of the disorder, but the experience so damaged him he quit his job, moved in with his parents and for a year cleaned their house and cooked for them in exchange for free room and board – he wasn’t fit to do anything for a yr – and that was just with a boss. (I don’t mean JUST, but the experience with a romantic partner is betrayal on a totally different scale I think).
LIG I hope you’re feeling more upbeat today. Better a simple meal alone that nourishes and sustains than a twelve course feast with a toxic person that wishes us harm. Things will look so much brighter once your studies are over and you are a Master
Hugs to you – it’s not easy
IWonder – sending good wishes your way that you get something just right for you – sounds like you have many talents
Stargazer – I sometimes tell fibs too! “Oh I just had a couple of old friends over.” Outsiders don’t know the ‘friends’ have fur and claws lol
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Saturday, 28 November 2009 @ 9:39am
lostingrief says:
polly: thanks so much. you have me LMAO. and i think we have the same mother!
can’t write much now. i have to get to the thrift shop (in the midst of black saturday) and find some mumus! (what the heck is a lippy?)
will write more later, but please know that i feel so less alone after reading your post. thank you for the helpful dye-ing tips. i’m going to get a darker color. my gray is all in the front at my hairline so i look like i have a halo around my face of ‘medium golden brown.’ pretty sure i can fix that with ‘darkest golden brown!’
what a hoot.
yea, i’m fat and old and maybe even undesirable … but lord, i’m here! (nods to celie in ‘the color purple’).
much love to all.
p.s. are you in a major city on the east coast?
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Saturday, 28 November 2009 @ 10:11am
maverickwest says:
i sit hear reading all the things you guys say and I can certainly relate to many of them. I unfortunately, am still in the process of getting a divorce… almost a year and over 20,000 to try to save what little I had… Can anyone describe why a s derives such pleasure from the court system? How they feel no need to comply with court mandates and wonder when will he no longer want to destroy me and just want to move on.
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Saturday, 28 November 2009 @ 10:26am
OxDrover says:
Dear Maverickwest,
Order Legal Abuse Syndrome book from LF bookstore, it explains it all! There is some good advice in there for dealing with it too. ((((good luck and hugs)))))
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Saturday, 28 November 2009 @ 11:19am
Cat says:
maverickwest, They love the legal system because they can manipulate it. BUT, in the end, while you may lose some, you will get YOU back and for me, that was all that mattered. I recommend the book Ox suggested. I found in my case, it was a form of revenge on me, drawing out the process just because he knew I wanted it done so much. There is one other thing that I did that helped a lot. I documented and documented. It is time consuming, but it saved my butt in the end.
I, too, don’t understand how they can ignore court mandates, restraining orders, anything the court puts out there. There is something in my ex P. that truly beleives somehow he is above the laws. They were written for others, but not for him. I had a restraining order on mine. He broke it 3 times and each time, I called the police. When we finally went to court, he was in more trouble for breaking the restraining order than for the original charges! And then he turned around and blamed me for putting the order on in the first place. I was mean, cunning and manipulative, not to mention selfish and a few more dozen deragatory names. Whatever. I had my peace of mind. He is one who finally DID pay for ignoring the laws.
Hang on and trust in yourself. It will all work out and it will all be worth it.
Hugs, Cat
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Saturday, 28 November 2009 @ 12:49pm
one_step_at_a_time says:
A OX DROVER
“wack jobs of EVIL” very nice. thank-you.
when I found out who the spath was, I realized that she has been doing this shit FOR DECADES. that took away some of the embarassment.
I felt stupid a few times whilst in it – like, ‘why am I putting up wit this shit’? But I know why and I know why I didn’t continue putting up with it.
I had an abusive bf once when i was very young. I know how stigmatized i was by that. I never question why people stay in abusive relationships, I understand that there is a process of control that digs deep into us.
I started reading about con artists a few weeks ago and looked at the steps used to real us in, and started to understand the process she used. I have also looked at the ‘ppath next door’. what was most important to me in that book was to see that SYMPATHY was THE big tool they use. Another thing that was important to me, was a freind telling me that she had heard a radio interview about spaths and the shrink interviewed, who worked with spaths every day, said how he knew which patient was an spath: that of all the people he met during the day on his rounds, who asked him for money, the spath was the one he would have given it to. Point taken.
They are good at what they do. It is THEIR game. I sometimes marvel at the audacity of this woman and SMILE, and then I remember that she has FUCKED WITH ME. But it is WHAT SHES DOES. It probably is her nature as much as it is mine to care for people.
I feel quite influenced by her game. I am angry at being targeted in any small way by anyone right now. This has made me look at some other situations that, that I certainly didn’t see them as benign, as being wrought by people with a tiny bit of spath in them also. And I don’t want to play by the rules any more. the nice girl, the good citizen who follows the rules. I’d really like to have some tools to fight. And in some of the situations there are no legal recourses and I am just fucked – in others, the legal reocourses will be long and an emotional burden and there will be great losess. I want to not feel this so much. I want to be able to not play by the rules, and use the legal system and say, fuck you to these people. But I don’t. I feel the cost to me of every bit of fight. I have ‘walked away’ and ‘let go’ and ‘accepted’ much i my life. I am a recovering 12 stepper (as in, recovering from 12 step programs), I have meditated for years…yadda yaddda. people are still shit and all these tools haven’t left me feeling at peace at this time. and THIS is bitterness and this is why I feel so ‘lost and fearful’.
these are big rants. I am trying to give myself permission to just go for it. I need to see what I am harbouring. it is hard to do this. want to make it nice and considered and blah blah blah. but i need to risk being the nut job here.
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 28 November 2009 @ 3:32pm
banana says:
Maybe I need to post my hearing results here.
At first I felt like they were punishing me!!!…
The gist of it is that the court postponed your motion that we brought for now and ordered that we try to settle the case if possible (since the court knows you were close to settling at one point and the court hates dealing with domestic issues).
In the meantime, the Judge will sign a temporary order that says that at your exchanges, the party who is dropping off will go to the others car with your son. The person picking up will stay in the car and not say anything. Neither of you are to speak. If EITHER of you do, a protective order can be sought for violating the court order.
Exchanges will stay at the Stewarts. The law guardian and the court didn’t want it at police station due to there not being one convenient station for both of you that was in a safe neighborhood . I argued adamantly that it should be at police station but was overruled.
Instead of talking to each other at exchanges, you are to keep one journal that you give to each other each time you exchange Noah. It will include any pertinent info (what he may have ate, his health, doctors appointments, etc.). The order will also indicate that there shall be no contact between you unless it pertains to your son’s health, child care or exchanges. Last, the law guardian and the court want the two of you to attend parenting classes which I will send you the info later. This encourages positive communication.
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 28 November 2009 @ 3:51pm
OxDrover says:
Dear ONE step,
Nah, sweetie, you are NOT THE NUT JOB here, we ALL are! LOL We have ALL been diagnosed as ‘the crazy one” by our Ps and their dupes. that’s just part of the territory when you start trying to recover.
As for being “stoopid” well let me tell you dear, you are among a bunch of VERY SMART STOOPID people–we’ve all been conned, all felt stoopid, and mad, and sad, and had pity parties for ourselves and wanted to strike out and wanted to do them in, get justice and every emotion you can imagine!
But you know what, in the end, we are the CARING people, the people who are ABLE to care, to love and that very wonderful thing about us (along with a bit too much trust in others because we ourselves ARE TRUSTWORTHY) have been conned, scammed, and abused for X period of time and it HURTS. BUT, the bottom line is we are still good people, did not deserve this, and WE WILL come out the other side, and they will ALWAYS be evil!
So you are in excellent company here…a bunch of smart people who are sometimes gullible, but we are learning, we are growing, and our lives on the whole are a bunch better than theirs! Hang in there One_step, cause that is what it is, one step at a time! (((hugs))))
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 28 November 2009 @ 3:54pm
one_step_at_a_time says:
@ox drover
okay, so WE are a bag of mixed nuts. I’ll take that.
One of the things ’she’ did the last time i talked to ‘him’, was try to implicate one of her sock puppets in abusing him. (confused yet? ;(
I still have moments of feeling the whack job has in some way abused ‘him’ AND I FEEL TWINGES OF CARE FOR HIM, CONCERN FOR HIM. And then I remember, HE doesn’t exist. It’s ALL HER. Oy.
ans she will always be evil. and he will never exist. i am gonna go have me a hot bath and a cry now.
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 28 November 2009 @ 4:00pm
OxDrover says:
Dear Banana,
Well, I don’t think that is a total loss at this time. Be sure you have all the e mails and texts that your X has sent you to present if needed. Keep a folder of any of this.
Also, as for the journal, I suggest that you make a COPY of all entries when you have it in your possession so that if he tries to ‘lose” or destroy this you will have a copy as proof of what was in it.
Actually I would also get a digi recorder and keep it with me during the exchanges so that if he DOES YELL at you you will have proof of this. This actually may be the best thing that has happened to you.
KEEP THE LETTER OF THE ORDER TO A TEE! DO NOT VIOLATE IT, EVEN IF HE DOES SO.
I would also (if you start the journal) sign, date and time it, and after your signature, make a copy of that, then when he returns it so it is in order with dates on each page. and a signature on each page. get some kind of book that is bound and if a page is torn out (not a spiral one) but one of those composition books that is sewn in pages and one can’t be removed without leaving a trace of where the paper is torn out. I can see the jerk messing with the journal or “losing it” or getting it wet or damaged.
If so, start a new one identical to the old one, and write in the front of it “second journal, first one lost by the s-path during visit of 12-4-09 and not returned” (but, you have a copy of the journal that he “lost” and so on. I can just see him messing around with this journal thing. Oh, boy, will HE HATE THAT!
Parenting classes—GREAT! Don’t you know he will HATE THAT. LOL Take up more of his prescious time and keep him from doing what he wants to do. I think you both should go to parenting classes every night of the week for 4-8 hours! LOL
Especially better if you attend the SAME CLASS cause he will NOT be able to hold it together and you know he will be an ass! LOL
Banana I think you have made the first MAJOR HIT on his games, so just hang in there, keep your head low and adhere to the orders of the court 110%! GOOD GOING! You didn’t get everything but you got a LOT!!! (((hugs))))
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 28 November 2009 @ 4:08pm
banana says:
I need some perspective on this.
I didn’t think it was fair to bring SOOOO much eveidence to court of his verbal abuse and parental alienation, all on tape or transcription, and they make ME just as LIKELY to get a PO as him.
HE is the one manipulatiing and abusing, why should he have the gradification of being able to PO ME for one word when I DO NOT HAVE A RECORD.
AND WHO THE HELL THOUGHT IT WAS A good idea to go to parenting classes!!! He is not going to change!
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 28 November 2009 @ 4:15pm
OxDrover says:
Dear One-step,
LOL yea, that’s us a bag of mixed nuts! LOL But you know, I’m finally at a point that I can LAUGH AT MYSELF for being so guillible and I think that’s a good thing!
Coming to this blog and finding people who are also bright, also good, caring people and finding that I am NOT alone, and NOT the dumbest most gulible nut in the bag actually made things a lot easier for me. I felt so ALONE in my “stoopidity” and my pain, but I’m not the first, the snartest or the last person who will be duped by con jobs that are put on by psychopaths. As P. T. Barnam said, “there’s a sucker born every minute” and I might add that there is a psychopath born every minute to find that caring good ’sucker”—but I would still rather be the sucker than the con-person that does the abusing/using.
As far as I am concerned, they lack a soul and the only “feelings” they can get are pretty shallow or angry, they aren’t capable of bonding or loving another person and that’s a bleak prospect to feel like they must, and to be so ALONE in the universe, trusting no one, bonded with no one, and loving no one. that’s pretty bad I would think, I’ll take being a “sentimental sucker” any day over what they must feel.
There is hope for me to heal, and there is NO HOPE for them. If you look at it that way, you are so much better off than they are, no matter how much money they took you for, or how much you thought you loved what didn’t exist, you are still better off. I just count the pain nd chaos as “tuition” to the SCHOOL OF HARD KNOCKS. I’m graduating now, no more tuition, no more psychopathic teachers, no more dirty looks, and no more feeling I am responsible for their welfare and happiness. I’M OUT OF THAT SCHOOL FOR GOOD I HOPE AND PRAY!
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 28 November 2009 @ 4:17pm
banana says:
Oxy,
I must be learning because…
I keep all texts in my e-mail, types them in order and save them on the hard drive and print them all by date in a binder.
I started the journal in the same one I started and suggested back in June. Took photos of every page and I have started new pages with dates through December. I photograph every two pages. I will photograph HIS too.
I also continue to wear a VA recorder at every exchange.
He scrwed up the first exchange already! I don’t know if his attorney sucks at communicating or HE pretends NOT to get the orders!!! He did not come to my care. My dad and I waited for a few minutes as he stood by his car. Then thinking S/P did not get the order, I got out and got our son.
And I the idiot, people pleasing Christian said “Thank you” when he handed me my son’s coat. This is how I have always been, and I feared this would happen.
It’s all on tape and I contacted my ATt. asap. she said I did not have to worry because he violated the court order first.
I KNOW I would not have said a word if I did not have to leave my seat or take the coat from his hands!!!
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 28 November 2009 @ 4:25pm
lostingrief says:
do they love their kids? the spath-hole would always say ‘my kids are my life!’ then, why was he with me four nights a week instead of with the son and daughter who lived at his house? yea, and what about other son who he hardly ever saw … the one he made my ‘godson’ and told me to spend time with every weekend? and what about the new one with his new girlfriend? what does a spath DO with four kids?
what do they mean to him?
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 28 November 2009 @ 6:29pm
OxDrover says:
They can’t love or bond to anyone or anything, however they do sometimes have the “attachment” of OWNERSHIP. The kids are a piece of property that they own for their own glory, but it is not your traditional “love” for kids. they don’t get it that ‘love” means nurturing and taking care of and spending time with and being interested in.
Kids are just like a guy who “loves” his dog but leaves it chained in the back yard without food and water—you mean they can’t live like that? Something must be wrong with the dog anyway.
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Saturday, 28 November 2009 @ 6:42pm
Spirit40 says:
LIG … I think the words come out of their mouths… but they are just words… actions speak louder than words… anyone can say “I love YOU”… I love my kids.. just like the crocodile tears… its like a pity play… they are babies themselves…. how can someone that selfish, self centered egotistical arrogant etc… blah blah blah…. my child is more mature than the father that claims to love him… its sad …
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Saturday, 28 November 2009 @ 6:50pm
style1 says:
Mine was with me almost a year and saw his kids once during that time.. yet he would talk to them on the phone and tell them I Love you, I love you.. love love love…
then we break up but continue to date for awhile and during that time he tells me that his kids are his life and that I almost destroyed his family. I had nothing to do with his family. I only met one of them.. they flip and change who they love and care for like the wind. I told him in the year that he was with me that he needed to see his children more, etc… They are so manipulative and false.
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Saturday, 28 November 2009 @ 6:57pm
Stargazer says:
LIG,
One of the really confusing things about my ex from a year and a half ago was that he seemed to genuinely care for his one year old daughter. But then he would say things like, “My ex-wife will probably take our daughter back home to Arkansas, but I will stay here with you. My daughter will always be my daughter but I don’t want to lose you.” Then I found out he was collecting large snakes and keeping them IN HIS DAUGHTER’S ROOM! There were just little things like this that gave him away. But the show of love and devotion seems so very genuine, it’s impossible to know they’re lying. You have to watch and listen over time to see their stories unravel. It’s still pretty amazing to think about it.
He also presented himself as someone who really loved snakes. He was very good with mine, even after one of them bit him in the face. But then he’d say he wanted to bring one of his new snakes to my house so I can see it, ignoring the fact that it is very stressful to take a snake on an hour-long drive with no heat. He would act like he cared, but then he’d either do or talk about doing really careless things like that.
I hope that helps put some of the pieces together for those of you who are still scratching your heads in amazement (as I once did). I no longer even think about that guy any more until I come here.
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 28 November 2009 @ 7:01pm
ErinBrock says:
HEY MATT:
If the S never collected his golf clubs and cookbooks and a jet ski awarded him in the divorce (may 2009)…..do I need to send a 14 day letter of intent to dispose of personal property?
He’s made no attempt to collect items…
The jet ski is titled ‘and/or’, so I can conveniently transfer title over.
I know for a rental unit, any personal property left has to be stored for 30 days then certified letter of intent to dispose in 14 days. If not collected then I can dispose of legally.
I want to do it by the book, but I can’t find anything referencing personal property after a divorce in my state…..
I want to shut down any avenue for excuses to ‘come over’…..
He knows he has to be accompanied by a police officer and he has warrants……so I beleieve he will wait unitl the EOP is expired…..
What do you think?
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 28 November 2009 @ 7:11pm
lostingrief says:
thanks ox, spirit, style, star …
i think he mostly sees them as property. he ‘loves’ his daughter because she’s ‘gorgeous’ … ‘loves’ his son because he’s a little ‘thug’ just like he is …
it’s all about how things appear.
i think i read that the s/p/n’s major objective is to perfect how they come off to other people.
sometimes i just can’t fathom just how gross this all is.
sometimes i still think it was all a bad dream.
and i guess it was!
TOWANDA!
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 28 November 2009 @ 7:33pm
henry says:
LIG Your x spaths children are possesions, like a car stereo..Spaths have children to LOOK normal, to fit in..They dont have them because they want to love them, they are collected like other family members, just possesions, they also like to control YOU with their children, and of course control and manipulate the children. I was told ‘M’ had two grown kids, this was after he had left here, but I dont believe it, no one can have kids and not ever mention them to someone they say they want to spend the rest of their lives with. But of course I also thot he was gay, but that was a lie also..who knows
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Saturday, 28 November 2009 @ 7:36pm
Stargazer says:
The thing that makes them so different from narcissists is that they genuinely appear to be caring and loving. The act would fool anyone. It really takes a little time to see through it. I think the reason so many people here were conned out of money is because they were already so invested in the relationship first. S’s are on their best behavior for about a month until they get you “hooked”. Once you are at this point, you are very vulnerable to their con because you are not anticipated a con.
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Saturday, 28 November 2009 @ 9:28pm
pollyannanomore says:
Glad you’re feeling a bit better LIG – I am on the other side of the world from your continent! Wish I was a bit closer – I think the idea of a LF camp is awesome
Imagine how healing that would be!
Agree with all other posters that these monsters are incapable of love. Here is a quote from The Sociopath Next Door by Martha Stout …
“And sociopaths are noted especially for their shallowness of emotion, the hollow and transient nature of any affectionate feelings they may claim to have, a certain breathtaking callousness, They have no trace of empathy and no genuine interest in bonding emotionally with a mate. Once the surface charm is scraped off, their marriages are loveless, one sided affairs, and almost always short term (I DISAGREE WITH THIS PART!). If a marriage partner has any value to the sociopath, it is because the partner is viewed as a possession, one that the sociopath may feel angry to lose, but never sad or accountable.”
“For their own reasons, sociopaths sometimes marry, but they never marry for love. They cannot fall genuinely in love – not with their spouse, their children or even a pet. Clinicians and researchers have remarked that where the higher emotions are concerned, sociopaths can ‘know the words but not the music;. They must learn to appear emotional as you or I would learn a second language, which is to say, by observation, imitation and ppractice. And just as you or I , with practice might become fluent in another language, so the sociopath may become convincingly fluent in ‘conversational emotion’. Any person who can observe human actions, even superficially, or who can read novels and watch old movies can learn to act romantic or interested or softhearted. Virtually anyone can learn to say ‘I love you,’ or to appear smitten and say the words ‘Oh my! What a cute puppy!’. But not all human beings are capable of experiencing the emotion implied by the behaviour. Sociopaths never do.”
Eeeek – just makes my blood run cold reading about it – what monsters they are.
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Saturday, 28 November 2009 @ 10:00pm
style1 says:
Mine read all the time… I mean all the time.. and he always remarked how fleixble that he is..
After the first rush of I love you, you are my soulmate, I will love you forever, I have been looking for you all my life..
I never felt … the feelings of love from him.. I heard them but did not feel them.. and why I think I was not sexually attracted to him.. it was all contrived.. like play acting..he would come in to see what I am wearing for the day.. jeans..he would wear jeans, too.. shorts.. he would wear shorts.. black top he would wear black.. light colored.. he would wear light colored.. he was a mimic….
Know the words not the music is a perfect way of putting it..
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Saturday, 28 November 2009 @ 10:17pm
one_step_at_a_time says:
@henry
My relationship with my spath was on the web and via phone. I thought he was a boy. Was all a flutter at the idea my 49 year old lesbo self having been ‘turned’ toward a 29 year queer boy.
Snort! Turns out ‘he’ is a woman in her 50’s who has been scamming women as a guy FOR DECADES. fucked by the best.
and still a lesbian.
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Saturday, 28 November 2009 @ 10:53pm
one_step_at_a_time says:
@style1
I read a bit of your description of this the other day. And there is something very familiar in it – because i didn’t know my spath in hardcopy i didn’t have that physical experience, but there was this feeling that she/he would say something and see if it ‘worked’ on me, and then it would be adjusted to work on me, or given up and a new tack taken.
I canna say how much I hate this person right now.
And I deeply want to know WHOSE pictures she sent me. HE was a beautiful boy.
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 28 November 2009 @ 10:58pm
henry says:
one step at a time – You never know who or what your chatting with online and via telephone. I hope this ’spammer’ didnt get any money from you. My X lives a gay lifestyle but he will screw a women in a heart beat, specially the ole hag across the street when I went to work. But her husband caught on to it before I did and started taking her to work with him -lol- true.. That is why I dont get involved with bi-sexuals – you never know what their in the mood for. Online we can be who ever and what ever we want to be – rich – poor – skinny – fat – beautiful. Did you never have intentions of meeting this 29 yr. old boy in person? I have completly stopped going into gay chatrooms, theres nothing there for me. I know a few guys that have had the same pictures on their profiles for 20 years. I asked this one guy on gay.con how is that you can stay 40 for twenty years and I keep gettin older? Anyway onestep – thanks for the reply.
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 28 November 2009 @ 11:10pm
Rosa says:
“The Sociopath Next Door” by Martha Stout should be required reading in every high school across this country.
Kids should have to read the book, and write a paper on it.
And, there should be full discussion of the book, preferably with a psychiatrist/psychologist present to answer questions and provide detailed explanations.
I really believe kids should be educated early on personality disorders & addiction, so they will recognize it when they encounter it in the real world, or even in their own families.
In fact, junior high school or middle school might be a better age to start educating kids on these disorders.
My brother is married to “Doreen Littlefield” from “The Sociopath Next Door, a Covetous Psychopath.
Actually, she’s also got a touch of Barbara Graham in her from that same book, as well.
Part covetous psychopath, and part sadistic murderer (if she could get away with it).
And, my Mom is dating “Luke” from “The Sociopath Next Door”.
He sits on his dead ass at her house and watches sports on her Sony flat screen.
There is actually a permanent ass print on her couch from where he sits and watches TV, eating her food and drinking her beer.
He tells her he loves her 25 times per day, and sends her phony flowery cards that say, “I Love You.”
So, I am sure it’s Love.
If anyone actually believes it’s love, I’ve got ocean front property in Arizona I would like to sell you.
The huge irony of it all is that my mother can see what a loser my brother is married to. And, likewise, my brother can see that my mom is hooked up with a loser.
But, neither can look at their OWN situation and see the dysfunction that is there.
They each have this HUGE blind spot where their own situation is concerned.
It’s unbelievable to watch close up.
~Oh, and the icing on the cake….that guy that I was debating on whether to send a birthday present to a few months ago….he resurfaced two days before Thanksgiving.
Some of you will remember, because I was on here asking for advice about whether to send him a birthday present.
I decided to just forget it, and I did nothing. I blew it off.
Anyway, two days before Thanksgiving, he left a message on my cell phone, accusing me of “cheating” because he has not heard from me in so long.
He did it in a playful way, though. He was not serious.
To him, I am sure it was playful and not meant to be hurtful.
To me……sort of a red flag.
I did not respond to that, either.
I just have this sick feeling that if I give this man a chance, I will be the third piece of the “tri-fecta” that is going on between my brother’s wife, my mom’s boyfriend, and whatever this guy wants from me.
I will pass on that.
I just want a healthy, stable, monogamous, honest relationship with a good, kind, & loving man!!
Jesus!! Is that too much to ask?!?!?!?!?
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 29 November 2009 @ 12:20am
pollyannanomore says:
wow – that’s an amazing family situation – I was just reading the doreen situation in the bath and was like ‘OMG no effing way!” It’s sick but I guess I couldn’t see it when I was in the midst of it – mind you he didn’t really do blatant things like that and when it’s mixed with a love situation as well – well “love” lol
That must be so frustrating for you to watch knowing what you know – have you tried talking with either of them about what you learned or are they just lost causes? It seems that some people don’t want to know till they’re good and ready. Personally I wish someone had noticed, diagnosed and identified what I was dealing with – I desperately wanted some advice and nobody recognised the abuse I was suffering.
So far two full days NC – he will be back in contact to sort out the final bits but already with two days under my belt I feel stronger to deal with him – amazing what a difference a couple of days makes. I am still thinking about it a lot but will just keep journalling what comes up and reading reading reading. Found several books at the lib I was going to buy on Amazon – so any saving is good
I am starting to wonder if there are any actually healthy men out there – between personality disorders, the bias towards pornography and traditional male privilege still operating I think maybe they are few and far between. So if you find one can you clone him for me?
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 29 November 2009 @ 6:30am
one_step_at_a_time says:
@henry
we met on line in late march/ early april. and were on phone a few weeks later. my intentions were platonic at that at that time. (it wasn’t a ‘dating’ website) I was going to be in ‘his city’ in mid may and made arrangements to meet him. can’t tell you the list of things that went wrong that he couldn’t make it.
…and every other time.
hard to make appts. when one is dying from the latest complication of a list of diseases that would kill a less noble creature 5 times over. I knew by July that I would never meet him. And by august the suicide attempts were compounding. I remember losing a whole day to ‘talking him down’ , then talking myself down from the huge adrenaline rush – and having to work the next day to make up for the time lost. And not knowing if he would be alive the next.
Knowing what i know about this person now, I was being set up for the next phase of it after ‘he died’, and quite possibly she would have tried to move in with me as the ’sister’ (and certainly she was grooming me for it, but i wans’t having it- I knew i was being fucked with), which she has done in the past, actually living with one of her dupees as the loivng sister of the ‘dead’ man the woman had involved with for a VERY long time.
She was fucking with a couple of other people also, so maybe it would have been one of them, both as the boy and the sock puppets on the webiste, on a blog or two, on phone and on FUCKING TWITTER. She is still fucking with them. I can see it daily – I try to look less, and coming here helps in that enadevour.
Sometime when I feel safe enough here (and I do feel the lurk of spath here) I will tell more of the story.
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Sunday, 29 November 2009 @ 7:22am
anitasee says:
Hey Boys and Girls, Happy Thanksgiving. Reading these posts last nite and this morning made me feel like I was enjoying news from old freinds, with whom I have shared much. I used to post as “eyeswideshut”, but there has been a glitch with my screen name, so here I am again.
So many keen and helpful observations, and wonderful sharing here as always. Erin, I LOVED your recount of the joy you had with your young ones, and JAH, Matt, Henry, LIG, all of you, in many ways I feel we have shared more insights than with some of my “bricks and mortar” freinds, having shared the experience of a P in our lives. And the ever faithful, ever wise and funny OXY, TOWANDA to all.
Presently, I am grateful for so very much, the kindness of freinds, that allows me to have a roof over my head, the love of my adult children, and the love for them, their beings, their principaled compassionate ways of being, their sense of being accountable, their gifts and talents and so on. And I am proud of my gifts and talents, the drive it has taken to find a job, after 25 yrs of being self employed, at my age, in this environment, and keep it, so far, and enjoy it to boot. I am proud that I have adjusted, after 25 years of being “looked after” (abused) that I am looking after myself. I am proud of my powers of adaptation and my creative optimistic attitude. And I am very proud that I have stood up to the P. In court.
Some of you may remember that I was able to get a court order that seized his passport, his computer, and froze his bank account, forbidiing him to do any biz with any financial inst. ANYWHERE.
Well, presently I am preparing for my case conference next week, where I get to respond , finally , to his “answer” to my voluminous evidence of his guilt in forging my name and raping our businesses, depleting funds blah blah – while of course leaving me with nothing.( I till the bitter end trying to “help” turn things around, to be part of the “team” that we were, keep the “family” together ad nauseum”).
The things he is expecting the court to believe are so laughable- his arrogance is so breathtaking, I am still sometimes gobsmacked by his hubris.
That however, doesn’t mean that he will not get away with it. After pleading poverty and poor him is scraping by on a lowly pension, and about to be evicted, can’t afford a lawyer blah blah…he will be represented,(hopefully by a lawyer in a cheap suit) while I have no choice but to self rep… and is driving a nice new exotic car, and …wait for it…crocidile tears here….can’t account for what happened to the $25K he put up as a deposit on a yacht no less…because he was the victim of a scam….poor little mister offshore account bragging…fancy getaway vacation taking, Ferrari driving…fine dining restaurant eating him, court order violating, him. Like any self respecting P – his “answer” has been to issue blanketdenials, without evidence, to aks for his rights back, while promising to account for the looted funds at a later date, (trust me) and
try to bully me by saying I OWE HIM a large sum of $$. Are we seeing a pattern here? Sound just about right for a P? If it wasn’t my movie I would be laughing. Well sometimes I do actually..he is a cartoon. I just hope that judge will have seen this comic strip before and tell it like it is.
These sentiments of mine may be confused with bitternes…well actually they are a laser guided resolve to get some justice…to be a ball and chain to his arrogance and his sense of entitlement – to get some relief for what I was robbed of. I know many of you have been through this. And we have had some victories, large and small.
What I am really grateful for also is that, I have found here at LF a community of people who understand, who have survived, thrived, grown and rejoiced. Altho I don’t post much, I read at least twice a week here, and always am enriched by your insights, your courage, your zest for the good in life and people, all of you.
I have known more cleare pure joy and happiness since leaving him than anything I could experience during the fog of life with him ( other than moments with my kids – but even then – all was comprimised by the lie).
I am poor, I can only look at the future in short increments, or else the fear and dread becomes too much…but I do have my own self awareness..I am able to be true to myself and look towards living a life that is consistent with my values.
And what I wanted to share with y’all here today..is I have chosen, recently, to give up a long affair with alcohol, which became my “freind” and “partner” in all the lonely emotionally abandoned years with my super successful P. In the almost 2 yrs. since the split…I used the bottle to drown out and work through and hide and forget and party on any way the hell with him and so on.
I chose this for myself, but of course to take from him the one big weakness in me that he used and encouraged (obliquiqly (sp?) like a good P) is also a big reward. He has even taken it upon himself to tell my adult sons how ruthless he will be in court – talking about my drinking etc…Well no actually..now that you are gone…and I have drowned my sorrows for another 18mos. I am ready to take me back.
There is nothing more to get over or hide from. You and your sorry assed drama and crisis, your fake love and fake “strength” ( cold blooded aloofness – passing as stoicism – in the midst of fake crisis – created for the benefit of gaslighting and undermining my reality)
Now I have made freinds with me…I have embraced the sober me…that was there all along. I am joyous. The inner trembling and anxiousness is subsiding..I can see.
So perhaps it is appropriate that I lost my screen name”eyeswideshut” and was given my other online nickname “anitasee”.
Wish me luck in court, I will be there with both barrels blazing and the truth on my side.
And thanks for being my place to rant fromtime to time…nobody else can really get it unless they have been there, can they?
Peace and love to all.
.
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 29 November 2009 @ 9:46am
one_step_at_a_time says:
@anitasee
Hi anitasee,
I am new here. Thank you for this line, “well actually they are a laser guided resolve to get some justice’. This is also a place I am in. My situation is different as there is no financial fraud, although the time I spent dealing with the cirsis and drama has definitely effected my ability to deal with the increasingily dire circumstances in my life.
All the best with pouring the 40 pounder down the sink, rather than the gullet. This is AWESOME! Good luck and good grace with your recovery.
one step
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 29 November 2009 @ 10:59am
OxDrover says:
Dear Anitasee, or eyes WIDE OPEN!!!!
So good to see you back and to hear your self affirming strength and RESOLVE! So good to hear that you are making it too, one day at a time, and congratulations on you giving up alcohol!
I am so PROUD OF YOU, AND PROUD FOR YOU!!! YOU ROCK!
You have crossed the bottomless abyss, built your own bridge and made it across. HOW STRONG IS THAT? How AWESOME is that! I am so glad that you shared the “REST OF THE STORY” and let us know you are doing well! That is important in our “LF family” to get information back from those of us who have gone on to success!
You have learned so much, accomplished so much and we need you back here to extend that knowledge and compassion to others who are just starting that journey! (((hugs)))) and always my prayers!
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 29 November 2009 @ 11:38am
Donna Andersen says:
Anitasee:
You go girl! Congratulations on taking care of yourself. Best of luck with your case. Stay strong – don’t react to what are sure to be ridiculous accusations (unless the judge lets you laugh).
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 29 November 2009 @ 11:46am
witsend says:
Rosa,
It is amazing what you say about your family. How your brother can recognize the dysfunction in your moms relationship and she can do the same in his. But both are blind to their own toxic partners.
I would assume that you and your mother have discussed your brothers relationship w/his wife because of your concerns about their little girl. Does your mom actually recognize the DIL to be of sociopathic nature? Or does she not really know anything about personality disorders and just chalk her up to be a “looser”?
It is very interesting that they can be so “close” to this type of disorder and “see” it on the other side but NOT when it is REALLY up close and personal. Has either of them read any of the books, perhaps the one you mentioned? The S next door?
It must be very frustrating for you to see it ALL unfolding in each of their lives. Without much you can do about it.
Have you recieved the book I suggested yet?
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 29 November 2009 @ 12:18pm
ErinBrock says:
Anitasee:
WOW…..you are sounding so very strong!!!
THIS IS GREAT! WONDERFUL NEWS!!!
Congratulations on your decision to take YOU back!
Take it away girl.
I know your ready for court……prioritize what you need and use the body language I have posted in prior posts…..
It flusters them, they lose track and……..the rest is ……..
I know all the work you put in, and I know the lack of confidence in the system…….BUT……This is the end of the war…….so bring out all the guns!!!!
I send you my mojo for one hellofa day in court!!!!
Good luck!
XXOO
EB
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 29 November 2009 @ 12:43pm
anitasee says:
Thank you all for your support, I cannot tell you how much it means. I am hunkered down and avoiding my “real” freinds so they don’t have to hear any more of this sorry assed tale.
Erin, I will be thinking of you and your sound advice. No tears, no drama, head high, ears open, mouth shut. Calm, serene, secure in my truth. A righteous babe. With an axe to grind.
P.S. Just to weigh in on the “finding a good man” topic….strangely, after a life of loneliness with my “husband” (for you newbies 27 yrs.) I now rarely if ever feel a twang of loneliness. Just peace. I flirt on line a bit in a very passive way—(people send me their profiles – I leave it there) just for the titillation of having someone respond to my picture and profile….but I know I am not ready for a healthy relationship until the P is “taken care of” (tee hee).
What I feel in my heart of hearts, is that soon I will have the time and energy to pursue other causes that I have cared about deeply for some time (activism around issues of corporate usurpation of our democratic rights/freedoms) – and in time the pursute of these interests will lead me to like minded people – where perhaps, just perhaps, a man of good character will present himself…in short, I believe that if I go about doing what I care about, I might just meet someone worth caring about.
And I remember well that it was intense loneliness and feelings of being unloved that drove me to accept and desire the false “love” of the P in the first place. No more. We have all learned from Donna and each other on this. Me first when it comes to love. The rest will follow. And if it does not, our lives are still rich with genuine freindship, a deep inner life, and the meaning that comes with living honestly.
Hugs,
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 29 November 2009 @ 1:29pm
OxDrover says:
Dear Anitasee,
YOU GOT IT SISTER!!!
QUOTE: ” And if it (romantic love) does not, our lives are still rich with genuine freindship, a deep inner life, and the meaning that comes with living honestly.”
The feeling of being WHOLE without a romantic partner is wonderful to me. sure, there are twinges once in a while when I woujld like one, but not DESPAIR or NEEDYNESS or LONLINESS that pulls me down for days, weeks. That makes me feel like half a human. My opinion is that until we reach that stage of WHOLENESS any attempt at finding a romantic relationship is going to be disadvantaged because we will lower our boundaries and I know I was so afraid to “lose” my X-BF-P that I would have done almost anything I think to have kept him with me— until one day, the scales fell from my eyes and I saw what he was and that he would never respect or love me, I was just ….a prop to him.
You sound like you have got all your “chit in one sock” anita! You go girl! TOWANDA! and big hugs and my prayers fo ryour success in court! Either way though, YOU ARE A WINNER!!!
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 29 November 2009 @ 3:51pm
henry says:
EyesWideShut – Thank you for sharing your new found strength, this makes me smile
– when in court just think of your LF friends – we got your back! Towanda…
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 29 November 2009 @ 5:00pm
Matt says:
ErinBrock:
Damn. I’ve lost my post to you twice now. Anyhow, regarding “disposing” of S’s golfclubs, jetski, cookbooks, etc.
First, do you know what rock he has been hiding under/living? If so, send him a certified letter telling him he has 30 days to come and get it or you will dispose of it.
Second, if you don’t know where he is living, the general rule is that you have to run a classfied ad, once a week for 4 weeks in a newspaper of general circulation. If you have an idea of where he is hiding, use that paper. IF not, use a major paper in your area.
Third, since the judge who handled your divorce was so impressed with your presentation in court, why not go see his clerk of court and ask if the judge could meet with you for “clarification” on this issue in his divorce decree. Something tells me he would love this. Also, ask the clerk, in advance of the meeting, if you need to have an order drafted for the judge to sign. This would be fairly easy for you to work up, based on your legal proficiency.
Now, if you got the judge to give you clarification, especially if he signs an order, you could really have some fun. Like selling the golf clubs for a buck, the jet ski for a buck, the cookbooks for 25 cents each. Alternatively, does he owe you any money under the decree which hasn’t been settled on you yet, or does he owe you for any bills he hasn’t satisfied? If so, I’d alert the judge to this and ask him if you can retitle the jet ski to you.
Hope this helps.
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 29 November 2009 @ 8:45pm
ErinBrock says:
Matt:
Thanks for the input……
And thanks for writing it three times…….
I have an ‘idea’ on where he is……and I believe he will be back in my area soon…..
BUT…the last known mailing address is all I have been provided and that was in May.
I think I would rather he not know I know where he is ….As he thinks he’s being sly and hiding out….He thinks I think he is still in Fl……
Damn….for a non working, ‘broke’ guy…..he sure get’s around…..
I guess most people would collect any belongings……right away huh? Not a Sociopath…cuz it leaves a door open.
I want to slam that door shut on any fingers he has left from our divorce!!!
You think he’d learn huh???
FUCKER!
I think I will contact the clerk….it might be nice to see the judge again!
No he doesn’t owe me any money……I took care of that in the property settlement……
I KNEW I wouldn’t see anything payment wise…..so I just took everything except the cookbooks etc..!!!
Every time I think of that it cracks me up!!!!
Thanks Matt!
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 29 November 2009 @ 9:36pm
ErinBrock says:
Anyone need some cookbooks?
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 29 November 2009 @ 9:38pm
Spirit40 says:
Matt: thanks for the response before this is my post to you… about grandparents ….Thanks MATT,
background my S, Narc, P wutever I call him, first he is adopted, I suspect one or both of his parents adoptive are narc, because of the abuse he suffered as a child and the way he treated me , and the little I know about them. Second the P is not on the birth certificate (wasnt around to sign it) legally where I was living I couldnt list him its a blessing in diguse because I was trying to all those drugs they gave me I was a little tipsy LOL ..
Third they have like he squirmed their way into our lives, I choose not to have them in our lives over 10 years ago..because I do go by my instincts and these people have not changed. They are cold to me but want at my child.
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 29 November 2009 @ 9:42pm
one_step_at_a_time says:
erinbrock,
you made me laugh aloud, ty!
Nice to see someone else with my fondness for the word fucker.
one step
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 29 November 2009 @ 9:44pm
Spirit40 says:
Anyone ???
Now they do not call me but send my child emails like this one since the NC….
Grandson:
Haven’t heard from you for quite a while..Hope all is well and hope that you’ll enjoy this one ..Kinda Neat don’t you think? Hope to hear from you and if you would prefer to call rather than send me an e-mail you can always call me on my cell phone at (555) 555-5555
Love Grandpa
Then he emailed me a week later … when he already had heard from P’s sister his daughter what the deal was or what the P told them.
We never speak to these people??
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 29 November 2009 @ 9:45pm
Spirit40 says:
my email to him after reading this :
Please do not contact my son via email . If you want information on how we/ he is doing you can call me yourself.
–
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 29 November 2009 @ 9:48pm
ErinBrock says:
One: it’s the only name that fit’s! I use it only from the depths of my heart!
If you knew me ‘for reals’…..I can be a trucker…..sometimes a sailor…..but always a BITCH!
Spirit:
My kids G. mother called on Thanksgiving….she never had their cells (she’s not been in thier lives since the youngest was 5)…..called my daughter…but my kids are old enough to know the con…..they look at me wierd and roll their eyes….as they hand the phone to ME!
Then they put it together ALL ON THEIR OWN!
Somethings brewing…..this is what it tells me….whenever any of us hears from the ‘other camp’.
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 29 November 2009 @ 9:54pm
Spirit40 says:
They do not contact me only my son via email first then me since he rarely answers the grandpa he dosent know or really love vice versa???
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 29 November 2009 @ 10:00pm
ErinBrock says:
It just dawned on me….
You know my whole garage is filled with Soc #1 and (business) Soc #2 belongings…..
HOW FANTASTIC IS THAT!!!! Maybe I should invite them to the Garage sale! AND HAVE THEM SERVED THEN!!!!
I just met with the next victim today, of Soc #2. She was amazed at all the stuff I had seized…..she laughed….I gave her some of the Soc #2’s wifes shoes and tops……we had a good laugh…….
We are ‘teaming’ up to get this couple, along with the ex wife…….maybe we can all wear the sociopaths garments and jewelry to court that day!
I know we won’t get money…..but an arrest warrant is fine with me…..and turning over all documents to the ex wife to protect her kids will be ‘pay’ enough……oh yeah…..and the report of fraud to homeland securtiy to revoke the VISA of the GF (soc #3)……and the show of bounced checks to deny entry to MIL into the country……shall I continue…..
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 29 November 2009 @ 10:03pm
ErinBrock says:
Their digging……
Play along if you need any info, but never give any out…….but keep the kids out of it if you can.
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 29 November 2009 @ 10:06pm
Spirit40 says:
The P is staying with his friend… who is gay… I suspect something is going on between them… I have emails etc that I found I am am thinking he is bi-sexual….. and this guy threatened me over the phone this evening….I am really pissed off now….. his new victim is victimizing me one minute telling me he loves the P but nothing happened the next minute he writes that maybe something happened but ….. the P is using both of us and probably sitting back and laughing as he does like he is psychotic only when he is drinking…. I do not want or need to be threatened… what can or should I do … and yes I have to admit I was the one calling the P ……
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 29 November 2009 @ 10:17pm
ErinBrock says:
NO CONTACT WITH EITHER!!!!
Period!
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 29 November 2009 @ 10:22pm
Spirit40 says:
Thanks EB =)
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 29 November 2009 @ 10:23pm
one_step_at_a_time says:
Hi Spirit40,
we haven’t been introduced yet; I am new here and just coming to terms with what has happened in my life is that a spath targeted me.
i have come to realize that my spath spent a LOT of time playing people off against one another, and being jazzed up by it no doubt. (in some of her incarnations, there were many (phone and internet) she would chatise people for engaging in the dynamics she set up.)
I don’t know the extent of it yet, but the longer i am away the more i realize that this playing was her FUN. It’s not real, it’s all just the spath play.
the fact that his friend is gay is a diversion, don’t get caught up in figuring out his orientation – he is a spath, which means his ‘orientation ‘ is ‘anyone handy’.
don’t pick up the phone agian. k? do some things you know will strengthen you, like you did by writing here.
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 29 November 2009 @ 10:30pm
one_step_at_a_time says:
oops, fogot a couple of words: disengage. he’s messing with you.
i don’t know your situation, this reply is just to your above post.
one step.
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 29 November 2009 @ 10:31pm
Spirit40 says:
Thanks one step…. I think I should also change my #’s … will be moving soon too that should help! a new place … new start…Thanks everyone….=) EB, One step…… time for some zzzz’s hopefully….
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 29 November 2009 @ 10:33pm
Rosa says:
Witsend:
Yes, I talk to my Mom everyday about the situation with my brother’s wife. We both love that child very much.
I have given her info. to read from this website, and I have read parts of books to her. So, she understands what a sociopath is. And she knows her DIL is one sick puppy.
Her boyfriend….that’s another story.
I have also given my brother info. to read, but I am not sure how much he has read, if at all. He seems to have moments of clarity, but then he slips back into the FOG again.
And, like I said, my Mom is clueless about her boyfriend.
He proposed marraige during the first 6 weeks of dating, thinks he’s still in high school, gave her a STD, and tried to get her to put all of his Christmas purchases on her credit card, because his credit is no good.
How many red flags do you need?
The guy’s a freaking sociopath.
But, she still thinks he’s sweet.
She almost threw him out once when he moved in with her, which was his ultimate goal. She told him he would have to move back to his place, or it was not going to work out. So, he moved back to his place.
He does not have cable at his place, because he watches TV at my Mom’s house. He loves to watch TV at my Mom’s house, showers there, sleeps there.
I am glad they are not living together, though.
(My eyes are rolling here).
She complained about him to me a few times, and I told her, “He’s showing you who he really is here. Ditch him. His ‘I love you’ talk is bull shit.”
Then, she gets annoyed with me. It’s the classic triangle situation we always talk about.
It is not a coincidence that my family members are attracting these types of personalities, either.
There are traits within my family that make us prime targets for sociopaths.
One example, I was raised to put others before myself. I was told that it is gracious and classy to put others first.
“It shows good character”, I was told.
That’s all well and good, unless you are dealing with a sociopath.
The bottom line is I am the only one in my family who is educating myself on personality disorders and working on my inner landscape, so I do not fall for these types of predators again.
It’s very difficult to get other people to become aware and look inside themselves if they are in denial about whether they even have a problem to begin with.
I will do whatever I can for the child caught in the middle of this mess, and I will leave the rest up to GOD.
~I do not have the book YET. But, I will probably get a gift certificate for Christmas. Anyone who knows me knows I love to read.
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 29 November 2009 @ 10:46pm
witsend says:
Rosa,
It is hard to help anyone become “aware” of this, if they have not encountered it personally….That is what I am finding in my circle of friends and people I come in contact with.
I think alot of it has to do with television. Almost everyone watches TV to some degree. And almost everyone has seen a dateline show or a 20/20 show that portrays a very “sick” individual who is a pedophile, domestic abuser, serial rapist, child abuser, well you get the picture….And even in many of these severe cases the word sociopath or psychopath is rarely used to describe these individuals.
Occasionally you hear the “word” used in murder cases. And sometimes on shows such as law and order.
Until people can “hear” this disorders NAME over and over again to define these people that are “high profile”
cases that make the TV headliner shows….It is going to be hard for them to ever understand the concept of the “Sociopath Next Door”.
I think most people can swallow this when trying to put a label on a serial killer….But old Joe who lives down the street who abuses his wife and kids (and fits the criteria of an S/P to a tee)…..Well he’s just got a “drinkin” problem.
I think it is even difficult for many to find a counselor or therapist that has GOOD background in these disorders.
I guess that is why so many people educate themselves here at LF.
We really do have our work cut out for us if we want to spread the word.
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 30 November 2009 @ 12:16am
Spirit40 says:
Wow in hindsight…. it seems like a ridiculous and vicious planned out methodical thing to do to someone, my P met his so called friend (a gay man) at work they both worked at a hotel years ago 2002….when he convinced me to move down here (he needed rescuing) I did and it quickly turned out badly he was married to a bi-sexual woman, and not sure what delusions he had but…he wanted me to marry his friend for money so that his friend could obtain a green card…. well of course I did not and then we ended up moving again…. out west where it got worse and I did end up with a restraining order on him … and fleeing ….yes this should have been a huge RED FLAG but as stoopid as I was then… did not see the whole picture of the manipulation con…..I really need to find a therapist who deals with these narcissist/P’s…. the last one as I wrote before did not and told me to stop calling him what he really is because I finally figured it out.
I am also going to speak to an attorney..if anything for my peace of mind….
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 30 November 2009 @ 6:27am
witsend says:
Rosa,
I just wanted to mention that when I looked at amozon for the book I told you about…When a stranger calls you mom.
It was very expensive. . I wanted to buy my own copy.
However if you google the title, I found the author has a website and the book can be purchased for 24.95.
Just wanted to make sure that you saw this.
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 30 November 2009 @ 11:03am
Rosa says:
Witsend:
Thank you for that information about the book!
I saw how expensive it was on Amazon, and I have never paid that much for a book.
So, I was hoping I could find it somewhere for less $$.
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 30 November 2009 @ 11:07am
witsend says:
Rosa,
Thats why I mentioned it! Gosh I have never even paid the 24.95 price in the last few years.
Usually I buy a creased pages or gently used book and they are so cheap on Amozon…
I do NOT know why this one list on amozon as so expensive?
However it is worth the 24.95 price in my opinion. As the info I read in this book isn’t stuff I have read in other books.
And I really think it might be helpful in your situation with your niece being so young.
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 30 November 2009 @ 11:41am
one_step_at_a_time says:
TO EVERYONE! UH HUH, I MEAN YOU!!!
I went out with an old friend last night, someone I hadn’t seen in over 30 years.
Although I didn’t mention my experience with the spath, it did intrude on my consciousness from time to time (including my asking a few times, ‘oh, what do you mean by that’? LOL).
On the way home from a really nice evening, I thought about the fact that i feel hopeful about my ability to recalim the deep place that is the fertile ground where the spath planted her seeds. And I wondered why I feel hopeful now, given how despairing I had felt just recently.
And it is because of Lovefraud that I feel hopeful. Because of the people and the knowledge here. This is an outrageously intelligent and ‘with it’ crowd. And a compassionate, by and large, risk taking, writerly, curious, artistic, creative crowd. MY people. duped and healing. f*cking warriors!
I AM GRATEFUL, GRATEFUL, GRATEFUL. THANK YOU; EVERY ONE OF YOU, THANK YOU!
Best,
one step
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 24 January 2010 @ 4:51pm
libelle says:
One,
same to you, and you are welcome! ((((Hugs))))
Seems to me you left the “sh%&/*ç@t” part of the experience and reached the fertile grounds where the MANURE is very helpful
! Might you flourish and be prosperous!
Congratulations and celebrations!!!
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 24 January 2010 @ 5:01pm
hens says:
one step – your welcome – send me a check.
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 24 January 2010 @ 8:26pm