LETTERS TO LOVEFRAUD: Hyper vigilance and PTSD
PDF Editor’s Note: Lovefraud received this story from the member who writes as “Duped.”
In hindsight, I remember questioning the little green things on the dinosaur nuggets he prepared for dinner. I was surprised he’d made the effort, in response to much nagging about not pitching in. It was late and I’d just returned from teaching an evening class. An overload to pay the bills since he quit his job. We had been arguing a lot, or rather me complaining; him not working, cleaning, taking care of the kids or pets and not making so much of an effort as to prepare a meal or help me. I had been working my full-time job teaching, overloaded for extra pay, consulting work for a publisher to generate more income, plus trying to finish my graduate degree in time to make tenure. All this and two children, one his and only a year old. And he never lifted a finger.
Until those dinosaur nuggets with the odd parsley flakes….
Less than two weeks later, he filed a false Protection From Abuse (PFA) order and attempted to have me and my eldest son thrown out of our house (the one I had built from the ground up before I met him) take me for full custody of our one year old son who’d never spent a night without me, and soak me for child support, alimony and half the marital assets (we had been married 11 months) to which he had contributed nothing!
Fortunately, he was unsuccessful. Mostly because of who I am and the life I’ve created for me and my children. In part due to some due diligence. In part, despite my hyper vigilance.
It is hyper vigilance I’d like to address. It’s a nasty side effect of PTSD. I was able to get his PFA turned around and file one against him. I was believable, he was not. I was credible, he was not. I HAD cared for my children, he HAD not. I had NOT been abusive, he HAD. This was relatively easy to demonstrate, although it didn’t feel so at the time. So, while I had him right where I needed him, I still felt panic and fear. I still believed he would be believed. Why not? I had believed him and I’m no sucker!
So, I made an urgent appointment with my doctor to have a drug test. He WAS using drugs. I was NOT. He had accused me of being a drug dealer, when in fact it was his mother who was his supplier, and I felt this burning NEED to prove myself. I got that drug test and believe it or not, they lost the sample. Right then I should have taken a breath and allowed the Universe to work its divine intervention. But NO, I couldn’t do that. I was in the throes of battle. I NEEDED every little piece that would set things right. I HAD to have that drug result to PROVE HIM WRONG. I was DRIVEN and consumed.
I had a second test run right before court and asked the doctor to fax the results to the attorney. I didn’t need to hear the results first. I knew what I had and had not done. It would be negative. And my attorney believed that too, which is why she handed over the results to his attorney without reading them herself. And that’s how I lost the battle.
The results were positive for THC, the intoxicating chemical found in Marijuana. Not possible, until I remembered those parsley flakes in the damn dinosaur chicken nuggets he had served up with a pleased little grin.
And that was when I had to face being my own worst enemy. Hyper vigilance, while once my comrade in a childhood filled with craziness, had become the enemy. No one asked for the drug test and it certainly wasn’t court ordered. I had gone full blown into trying to work every little piece and angle to save me and my children, that I’d opened a cans of worms HE HAD ANTICIPATED! He played my vigilance to his advantage and had won…the battle.
I won the war. Because I am who I am and he is who he is and I didn’t have to make that case. He made it himself, once I tuned down from hyper vigilance to due diligence. I shifted from histrionic to matriarch. My change in posture elicited a change in his. He wasn’t pulling my strings any more. He wasn’t in control any more. I was in control of myself, which gave me far more of a positive influence over the situation. And his facade was shaken, revealing his true colors.
My point is, if you have been the victim of a sociopath, it is most likely you will be and maybe still are suffering from PTSD. With that comes the nasty black cloud of hyper vigilance. It’s exhausting, unproductive and ultimately leaves one angry and disappointed with themselves and actions. If you’re in the throws of situating your life in the wake of a sick or evil person, stop and take a deep breath. Ask yourself if what you’re doing is for the right reasons, makes sense and will take you in a direction that will raise you up, not bring you down.
Are you reacting because the situation REQUIRES it? Or are you reacting because you’re DRIVEN to? I ask myself these questions with regularity and find I’m a happier, more relaxed and better focused person, mother and professional.
Namaste
Duped
written by Lovefraud Reader • Permalink •
Cat says:
Twice Betrayed, music is a wonderful tool for me. I can change my mood just by listening to certain kinds of music. I put my headphones on and simply float away. Sugar, though I love it, is NOT my friend. I can’t handle the crash after the high, so I try to do it in moderation, though there are days like yesterday when it’s really tough.
Ox, the sunshine is very important. I agree with you on this. This is the time of year where many have to work harder to get that on a regular basis because the days are short and the dark is long and then when to sugar and so on… I like your analogy of going to see a friend for heart problems and agree with you, it’s best to see a specialist in any area of medicine when needed.
Good stuff on here!
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Twice Betrayed says:
Oxy; you are so right on sunlight! You know, when my x pulled that run off now four years ago I was more broken than when I walked out forever. Because it was so unexpected when he cleaned out the bank accounts, closed the cc’s and left me penniless and w/o a job at the moment-since I had received a full grant to write a book. Blew me out.. but I had animals to care for-many rescued dogs/cats that I rescued, fostered and placed in good homes thru my rescue connections–I also had large animals [horses] so this forced me to get outside and WORK. [my rescue friends sent me food for my animals and family/friends helped me money wise until I could get an outside job-which resulted in the loss of my grant]. I also retained an attorney and was able to get some money from my x after a court hearing…but this all took time. At any rate-point is: being forced to continue to work…..especially physical work outside really helped me make it thru! [ By the time this x decided to return....I no longer wanted him. However, he trumped me money wise and I was forced to allow his return for two years-I used that time to work and save money to leave on-which I did]. I still have several dogs outside and I enjoy my walks/care/play with them in the sunlight. Really lifts my spirits, clears my mind. I do things now that are uplifting instead of being forced into ‘nut management’ like I was with the ‘nutty one’. LOL!
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Twice Betrayed says:
Cat: I cannot do sugar. It’s like it’s plain poison to me! I wake up during the night coughing and just feel awful for several days..until it clears my system.
Sunlight in winter: I use full spectrum lighting in my kitchen and I have a full spectrum lamp in my bedroom. I keep it on during rainy/winter days-really helps me feel better.
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OxDrover says:
It really ticks me off with frustration (not anger) when people are told that depression or any other mental issue is simply a matter of “mind over matter” when they would not feell that way about a heart or kidney problem (well at least most sane people wouldn’t) is just a matter of “mind over matter” or if they had an appendix burst they wouldn’t say “oh, I’ll just tough it out, it will be okay.”
I love the ads they are running now about strokes, where this guy has an ARROW through his chest and he is talking to some clerks and they keep asking “Sir, are you okay?” and he keeps saying “Oh, it’s nothing, it will be OK.”
The signs of heart attacks and strokes are fairly well defined yet too many people are in DENIAL about the signs, the pain, etc. and WAY too many people are that way with depression, “Oh, I just have to not be a baby, it will lpass.”
Depression is a REAL CHEMICAL illness like diabetes, and it is something that medication (in some cases when Rx’d by a TRAINED physician or health care provider) can be controlled easily. There is no more shame in taking an antidepressant than there is in taking insulin. Yet many people persist in either ignorance or denial or both—or they take their hair dressers diagnosis and treatment recommendation.
Yet we each make our CHOICES and we must live with the results…I wouldn’t want to try to force anyone to do anything against their will, but it is still frustrating to see people not treat treatable problems that make life so much better, when there ARE safe and effective options.
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ErinBrock says:
Pollyanna:
I read the sense of relief in your post!!! The weight lifted off your shoulders.
Today, tomorrow or the next may be hard, may contain only moments of fear/sadness……but I beleieve the prevailing feeling will be of relief!
KEEP FOCUSED ON YOU!!!!
Keep talking to yourself, keep telling yourself good words……
YOU WILL BE OKAY….YOU WILL!!!!
I remember the first time the ex S moved out…..it was crazy….he took the drawers from the chests, but left the chests….he took all the art off the walls….left the house in disarray……for us to come home to……
It was an initial shock…..oh, because how he loved us…..but then I immediately remembered WHO had done this….just another confirmation….
Lean on all your support and keep those doggie kisses coming…..for a time, all I had was my girly…my old lab…..she saw me through……I lost her in July…..when it was ALL over……
I am really glad he’s leaving, I hope you plan on going NC….there will be games played by him…..keep in mind….YOU DON”T HAVE TO PARTICIAPTE!!!!
TODAY IS THE FIRST DAY OF THE REST OF YOUR LIFE!!!
You have been grieving for some time…..so your ahead of the game…..keep your feelings up and your positive attitude….know you will have good days and bad days…..try to keep a balance….
Don’t allow your highs to be too high, NOR your lows tooo low.
I at one point was very low of Vit D…..still take it, at one point took 50,000 ICU 3x a week….
Low vit d can affect moods……it takes some time to get it back up…..but head out in that sunshine and feel free girl….
You WILL feel better all around if you can minimize your stress and maintain control of your life!!!!
CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!
XXO
EB
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notagain says:
Wow..I understand this…but it was my hypervigilence that saved me in court. Long long story, butI had everything documented by a professional, and then told the professional about whwat I new his vindictive next move would be against me, because I wanted to get help for our four year old child, and he didn’t. I wanted counseling for our son, he didn’t, so his sick move, was to accuse my 8 year old child, of molesting our four year old child. Talk about hypervigilence. He did everything in his power to try and break me away from my children and break my children away from eachother, becaue he new it was killing me, and it was the best form of control he had over me. We had been split up for quite a while, and he still had control over me, using our son. I know everything about PTSD. It is a nightmare in your mind and body that seems unescapable. I still suffer, but not as bad. He has changed a little, now that our son is older, and can tell a court that his father is an ashole, with a temper…who severely emotionally abused me and my two children for seven years…plus.
the funny thing though, is when he filed that false claim against my 8 year old son, I really didn’t save us…because the court through the case right out. I walked in with a folder 3 inches thick with evidence against him. They never looked at it. He thought for sure he could walk in and break my family apart, simply by telling the court his “made up lie.” He wwalked in empty handed, and when the court asked for our son to come in, ofcourse he refused. It was his plan to make sure that I had to seperate my children in order to have my son come home on my time. He thought he was going to punish me, by making me find day care for my other son, and splitting my boys up. It makes me so angry to look back at this. He is still an ashole until this day…but better, because he knows he can’t wiin in the court. He has mounted his own evidence up with his reputation where he works as a teacher, and has been threatened to lose his job due to his anger issues. He can stab you in the stomach in the blink of an eye, with his words, with out cause or reason.
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duped says:
notagain,
I feel for you. It’s hard to recover from PTSD when you share a child/children with the S. It is a relief, though, when a precedence in your favor is established in court. Once that’s done, it’s difficult for the S to have it reversed. Which means you can relax some and smell the roses with your boys!
Enjoy the reprieves between the insanity episodes. It strengthens your influence over your children and affords windows of normalcy. I also suggest, if you haven’t already done so, read “Just Like His Father” by Liane Leedom. My son is nothing like his father but I have still found the book insightful, affirming and helpful. Just one book of many in my arsenal against evil
Namaste
Duped
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Spirit40 says:
I remember back couple months ago I went to the courthouse it was around late afternoon and it was a friday… I guess they dont want to take your information that late in the day….they told me ” the computers down” come back on monday…. this was to file a restraining order… I said MONDAY… well isnt their a “live person” to take my information on “paper”…. No come back Monday…..
how can people who get up the courage to do this? and then to be turned away?? feel safe it would have made a huge difference for me… but the girl just sat their on the phone … chatting away like yeah how was your weekend…. oh she wants to know if there is anyone that can help now what if something happens….just come back on Monday! People in that position must have some kind of training on how to treat others, turning them away is a disservice..injustice not justice…. its not crying wolf… its not being afraid and seeking help and asking and finding courage… only to be sent away…. wonder if I can complain to the city?…. its only a piece of paper right what would they do…. sit on their arrsseesss…….
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duped says:
In reference to the discussion on depression and meds…
I agree with Oxy that it’s a matter of choice. Certainly no one can MAKE you take a pill that may significantly CHANGE YOUR LIFE for the better!
It is also true, though, that stress, anxiety, depression and the like create chemical imbalances in the brain; increased uptake of this, decreased absorption of that, etc. etc. Not to mention an increased risk of heart attack, diabetes and several other nasty systemic byproducts of living in a state of upset.
If you are committed to feeling better but just CAN’T seem to do it, GET SOME HELP. I tell my fifteen year old, who sees a psychiatrist for meds and psychologist for therapy, it’s a sign of health to get help. Of course, like any fifteen year old, he thinks he’s the ONLY teen in therapy :-0
I too see a therapist every other week and, while I’m not specifically on antidepressants, I do take anti-seizure medication for nerve damage in one of my hands, that I’ve come to embrace as a mood uplifter. If I forget to take it, either the pain in my hand reminds me or my mood does.
My hand, while injured twenty years ago, never hurt as bad as it did after the stuff hit the fan with my S. Chronic pain can also be a symptom of stress/anxiety/depression. I’m fortunate to have found a medication that helps with both
The healthiest people I know are in or have been in therapy. If you try one therapist and you’re not confident in the relationship, find another. I’ve had many over the past two decades, one for seven years, another for three, the latest for two thus far. One was great but I moved, one was good but I out grew him and we said good bye with mutual respect. Each one was helpful in a different way.
I don’t go because I’m in a state of crisis or impending doom. I go so that I may have objective feedback in a life I want filled with continual growth; mentally, emotionally and spiritually. At 39, my body, no matter how much I exercise, is still in a state of atrophy. I’d like to believe there is an inverse relationship between the decay I can’t prevent and the psychological growth I CAN perpetuate. And, some how, life just seems to get better and better!
Namaste
Duped
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susangrisanti says:
My first feeling is that you were just
too busy & distracted when the
curious green toppings showed
up on your plate.
At times in my life when I
let myself get ‘too busy’
was when I would make
mistakes I would regret later.
In 1985 I ended up married
for 5 months to
an ‘S’ because I was in sleep
deprivation from college &
supporting myself. If I had
only taken time then to look for
red flags I never would have
fallen for him.
Now at 53 I’ve learned to never
hurry anything. Not give into
people’s deadlines & pressure.
You are a very strong individual,
I admire your courage to persevere
like you did.
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OxDrover says:
WARNING: Erin don’t mean to bust your bubble about Vitramin D but there are four vitamins that are TOXIC, and I mean TOXIC in excess they are K,A,D, & E (I remember them by making a “word” “Kade” out of them.) These four vitamins are stored in FAT not water soluble and in great excess can literally KILL you, so the megadozing with any of these four vitamins can be really bad. The body will store as much excess in your fat as it can, but when the fat is used the excess comes out with it. Like on a diet or if you lose weight because you are very ill, etc.
Taking a daily “multivitamin” though I highly recommend because we tend not to eat right when we are stressed. Plus, getting out in the sunshine (natural vitamin D) and exercise (burns off stress hormones and raises the feel good chemicals in our brains)
Your advice to Polly is great though! She needs to FOCUS on herself! Be good to herself.
Took all the drawers but left the chests? ROTFLMAO what an arse!
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runningaway says:
OxDrover,
My doctor just told me today that I should take 50,000 mg of Vitamin D per week for a month. I guess I’d better look into the safety in that.
As to the stress, my S mom was here for Thanksgiving and I didn’t realize how stressed I was until she left. I went to sleep for 12 hours.
I’m so glad to hear from others who are dealing with an S mom – most are dealing with spouses. Those of us with aging S parents are in a different place. How do you stay safe AND have a relationship with siblings who aren’t on the same page? Talk about stress!
For example, mom is running a con job on some friends. My sister told her that I had been talking to the couple’s daughter about the fact that my mother has a lot of money. Mom showed them some sort of fiancial “proof” that she has next to nothing so she can steal an apartment from them. Anyway, mom knows that the jig is up and I’m holding my breath waiting for the bomb to fall in my lap. Mom was curiously friendly over Thanksgiving – creepy.
Someone said earlier that they’ll be really nice to you so you let your guard down and then they lower the hammer (sorry for mixing my metaphors). I think that’s so true. But it’s so awful living like this.
My mom and I don’t live in the same state. And I know I have to remove myself from the relationship. Easily done except that I feel guilty about leaving her to my brother and sister. Gotta deal with that. And, I have to deal with a sister who is my best friend but who very much wants to believe that her mother loves her. She and I had a big argument over mom’s intentions and my sister’s lack of loyalty. We’re not speaking to each other and I’m heartbroken. I know it’s all my mother’s doing – a long story of triangulation.
In the Wizard of Oz, Dorothy is asked what she’s learned. She says that happiness is in her own backyard. Then she asks the Good Witch why she didn’t just tell her that in the beginning and the good witch says, “Because you wouldn’t have believed me – you had to learn it for yourself.”
That’s so true. I know I have to give my sister time to learn it for herself and hope that she’ll come back to me. But I feel like crying a river over all the horrible things my mother has done to us – and this is the worst.
How do I run away from my mother and help out my siblings when my mother needs to move, etc…? How can I help my sister and remain safe? I could use a bit of advice.
I also don’t sleep at night. I guess this is affecting me far more than I realized.
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sistersister says:
“Are you reacting because the situation REQUIRES it? Or are you reacting because you’re DRIVEN to?” is one of the more profound statements I’ve ever read on this site. It really resonated with me — not so much in my intimate relationships as in some others. (Let’s just say, I aspire to being hypervigilant, but I lack the discipline required.)
I think the whole point here was, this person was so hypervigilant, she missed something essential. Ironically, not vigilant at all. Couldn’t see the forest for the trees.
I hear that ding-ding-ding go off in my head.
Also, I’m struggling with some volunteer work I do occasionally, some public relations for a poorly run nonprofit. You can always tell the codependents on the e-mail list: We have to do something about this; we have to respond; who’s going to do it?; OK, I will. The “OK, I will” is usually hyper-responsible me. What I need to say instead is, Why don’t you morons have a professional public relations team in place? Why is this run like the church bake sale — waiting until enough blue-haired ladies show up to make cookies? What the heck am I enabling here? What kind of sociopaths start a nonprofit and then wait for the patsies to show up to do their PR?
Just ranting — against myself, mainly. Time to let myself off the hook, huh?
Let it crash. Watch it go boom. Boom good, rescue bad.
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ErinBrock says:
Oxy:
My Vit D blood level was 9 When MD Anderson specialist Rx’d the 50,000 script. It took 5 months for the Vit D blood work to come back ‘in range’.
I have been back to low (although not that low) for each 3 month blood test since.
I take OTC Vit. D nightly.
With the Thyriod problems…..I only wish I could lose some weight!!!!
Thanks for the info.
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sistersister says:
Off-topic: I noticed the comments to “Hello Ladies and Gentlemen, I’m Not a Sociopath” are closed. I wanted to thank you again for posting that wonderful, humorous, sad article. I sent it to my mother after I first read it, and we talked over the weekend.
Mom said she immediately recognized her brother-in-law. I can’t tell you how healing it has been for her finally to realize, after her sister’s death, what really happened and why it didn’t make any sense. Her sister, my aunt, was in the grip of a sociopath.
Naively enough, she reconciled with Aunt Barb just before her death. It was the right thing to do, but she went one step further, thinking it meant it was OK to “forgive” what they did — they attempted to steal $10K from her, back in the ’70s, when that was a lot of money, and when my mom was a struggling divorcee. She fought to get every penny of that money back over the years and thought it was finally “in the past.” She took pity on her poor widowed brother-in-law, and they went out to breakfast a few times. Finally, it became clear to her that he had no recollection of ever doing anything wrong (!).
That was always clear to me.
She’d already given up on Larry, one last time after 30-some years. And then I sent her your satirical “speech.” She loved it. Thanks, Steve. Really. My mom waited almost 35 years for that perfect description, and I’ve waited just as long to tell everyone in the family just what I think of it all. Now that my cousin — his daughter, my beloved youngest cousin — has run off to follow her dream to become a painkiller addict, I’ve taken off the kid gloves I’ve worn so long in deference to the two girls. I proudly tell my mother’s story, about her courage and integrity, to anyone who will listen.
And to hell with my uncle’s reputation in that little town. He messed with the wrong 14-year-old that day they rummaged through my mom’s legal papers to erase that loan, thinking I didn’t really see that. What kind of unreality were they in? It turns out, complete unreality. Utter, 100% self-delusion.
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OxDrover says:
Dear Running away,
If your physician checked your blood levels and recommended that dose, I would probably go with that, s/he did not apparently recommend that dose for an extended period of time. Many people ARE deficient because we wear sun screen and are not outside enough (the skin manufacutues it from sunshine) It is when people take HIGH doses for extended periods of time that they get into trouble.
I know it is difficult when “mom is the abuser/con”
There is a link to BloggerT’s website on the left side of here “when mom is the abuser” and there are some good articles there.
I am my egg donor’s only child, and so I don’t have to contend with sibs, though my 3 first cousins on that side (the children of Uncle Monster, her brother) are as close as I have to sibs, but I iam not close to any of them really, the male cousin lives close, and he is the most damaged I think of the three from the abuse by their father, but he is my egg donor’s power of attorney now, because she didn’t trust me any longer and took away my POA over her business. she gave it to my son C and his WIFE the P, who of course stole the egg donor’s money and tried to kill her husband C—
After it all calmed down, the egg donor offered me back the POA and so on, but she just wanted to “pretend none of this happened and start over” NOPE—-I’m not going to play that game any more.
I assume your mom is still active and has as much of her mind as she ever did, and still doesn’t have a moral compass.
I know you love your sister, but there is no way you can make her see what she is DELIBERATELY BLIND TO—she is in denial, the thought of learning and knowing that her mother doesn’t really love her, never loved her, is incapable of loving her, is so POTENITALLY PAINFUL for her, she can’t accept it, so she DENIES it.
That is normal behavior for anyone who has lost something they had or thought they had. It is almost impossible to break that denial except in the case of a death of someone where there is NO chance that the person is alive. In cases where children have been kidnapped and gone for 20+ years, the parents many times die believing their child is alive. It happens, but not often, about like winning the lotto, the odds are so long and against you, but they have to hang on to that holpe, that belief that their child is not dead in order to not face the terrible pain of admitting that s/he probably is.
We all want our mother to love us, and I honestly thought mine did too, until that fateful day when after all she had done to me, how she had devalued me, shown NO MERCY OR PITY FOR MY PAIN, NO COMPASSION, NO EMPATHY, but looked at me with total disgust as I begged her to believe me….and then she wanted to pretend NONE OF IT EVER HAPPENED? NOPE!!! The pain she inflicted was so great, it made it clear she didn’t love me, because NO ONE WHO CARED ANYTHING FOR ANYONE COULD DEVALUE THE PERSON THE WAY SHE DID ME.
So sometimes it takes a really harsh devaluation to SNAP you out of the denial. Sometimes peo0ple hang on to the denial even after the person they love beats, shoots, stabs, or otherwise gravely injures them in a rage—and still they can’t let go.
I suggest tht you read “The Betrayal Bond” it is in the LoveFraud store and by golly it will show you, I think, just what your sister is going through. There’s another one I recommend too, “If you had controlling parents” by Dan Neuharth, Ph.D. It is quite a good book.
Your mother may “only” be a borderline or histrionic personality disorder, it doesn’t matter WHAT the particular diagnosis would be if she were professionally diagnosed, the bottom line, cut to the chase is she is DISORDERED IN HER THINKING, SELFISH and Manipulative, and there is no way to have any kind of a NON-TOXIC relationship with these people.
I know from personal experience when they triangulate and SPLIT people up from each other successfully (and that is one of their best tricks) my egg donor split my son C off from his brother D and I. It was only the two of us against the troop of them, led and managed of course by my P son. As PROOF that they would “wini” in one of his letters of instruction to the Trojan Horse Psychopath he cheered them on with, “I get along with everyone in this family EXCEPT mom and D, and everyone else does too, so who is right? We are of course, and we will “win” because there are more of us and we are smarter! Mom (Me) is crazy. I think she must have a brain tumor.” LOL I’m sure glad that my P son got a good medical school and neurological education while he’s been in prison these 20+ years that he can make the diagnosis of my “brain tumor” without an MRI or a CT scan! LOL ROTFLMAO
The only way I can see that you can “help out” your sibs, is to maybe call a family meeting, IN LOVE, and say to them in a kind and compassionate way what you have said here…that you think your mother is being manipulative, and that you want no part of it. Assure them that you love THEM but that because of the situation you are going to have to DISTANCE yourself from “mommie dearest” (completely, but you might not want to say that to them at first) then tell them that you will support THEM and help them in whatever way you can in their care of your mom, FROM A DISTANCE, and that might mean that you help them financially, like pay for the moving truck if they would have to pay for it, or HIRE someone to do the labor that you would have done, but you are supporting your SIBS, not your mother, if that makes any sense.
Assure them that you are NOT asking them to “choose” between your mother and you, that they have their own relationships with mother, but you have chosen to distance yourself from mother, but you do NOT want to distance yourself from them, and you hope that they will be undeerstanding and supportive of the decision that you have had to make FOR YOUR OWN PEACE OF MIND AND STRESS REDUCTION which high stress is literally making you SICK.
Your might also say, “this isn’t about loving or not loving mom, but it is about my SELF PRETECTION AND PRESERVATION, and I “hope you can be supportive of me.”
Then in the future, keep your discussions of mommie’s behavior, antics, con jobs or whatever at a minimum unless it is a situation where you have to get the check book out and hire someone to help your sibs with your mom’s care.
That way, you won’t have to wrestle with any “guilt” about not doing your part with your sibs (which frankly, I’m my egg donor’s only child and I do NOT feel guilty that she has no one because she chose to take away my AUTHORITY to do ofor her, so without authority, there is NO OBLIGATION. If I had sibs and they had to help out my egg donor, like you do, I would “pay my share” (even if I had to sell plasma to get the money) but I would not participate in it, and I would do just what I advised you to do. Essentially or totally NC.
NC with my egg donor is the best thing I have EVER DONE for myself! I am no longer devalued by anyone in my circle of love and trust cause there are no abusers within that circle at the moment and I intend to KEEP IT THAT WAY, and anyone who doesn’t think I have a perfect right to stop abuse the only way I can and gets mad at me about it—that is THEIR PROBLEM, NOT mine.
Good luck and God bless ((((Hugs))))
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Cat says:
Twice Betrayed,Thank you and everyone else for your comments and your support. How do you go about getting full spectrum lighting because I find the winters MUCH harder to get through than the summers.
Spirit 40, I’ve run into the same thing with the legal system. I was told I couldn’t get an order unless he actually DID something. I asked for this when he was running around looking for a gun because he wanted to shoot himself and I was truly afraid he would take our son and myself with him. Wonder what one of them would do if the situation were reversed? I’m quite sure you weren’t there just because you were bored…
Susan, 53 rocks! I’m 53 as well. This has been my year of discovery and freedom. If I’ve learned ONE lesson, it’s to watch who I give to and why I give to them. Sleep deprivation hits me very hard. I can’t think, do or say anything that makes sense. I rarely have nights where I don’t sleep now. Had one a few days ago and it messed my mind and thinking up big time. I understand how that could have happened to you.
Ox, I’ve heard the same about Vitamin D. I hadn’t heard about the others though. I tend not to eat at all when highly stressed. I do take a good vitamin daily, though. My stress was so high at one point that I weighed only 115 lbs. That doesn’t work when you’re almost 5’8″. I actually ended up in ER, I was a anemic and dehydrated. I was the poster child for the effects of a Path. I was very pale and didn’t want to see or talk to anyone and of course, that was depression kicking in big time. This all came about because I finally told him to get out and he kicked into gear big time. I am pretty sure God was walking right next to me because as bad as I felt, I still stuck to my guns. I have come to believe that faith in a Higher Power is just as important to our soul as how we treat our bodies.
duped, the best therapist I ever had was the one who asked me, “What are YOU getting out of this?” One simple question that opened my eyes and changed my life forever. I haven’t seen him since I moved, but I can attest to the fact that a good therapist will help you change your life for the better. I think it takes a combination of taking care of ourself physically, finding people (like here on LF) to help us emotionally and a belief in that Higher Power and having a willingness to change.
Erin, I don’t have thryroid problems, but it does run in my family, so I’m tested on a regular basis. I think this is one of the most important tests a person should have done.
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OxDrover says:
Dear Sistersister,
TOWANDA FOR YOU!!!! TOWANDA FOR YOUR MOM!
Sometimes it seems it takes a life time to be vindicated and I am glad that you (and your mom) both are vindicated by that article. It is a great one!
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witsend says:
runnungaway,
Having a personality disorder in your family seems to bring up a whole set of different problems doesn’t it? However as I am learning here, on LF, it doesn’t come with a different set of rules of “how to not engage”.
I guess we have to step back and try to look at our own personal situation and make a choice. It is, what it IS. And everytime we allow them into our lives on any level (even just a simple holiday meal) the stress level is high.
I am in a similar but not the same type of situation. My youngest son still resides in the home. He talks about leaving, and I am still uncertain if he has a plan. Meaning a place to actually GO when he leaves. He is so out of touch with reality most of the time and seems to “think” that all he has to do is WANT something and say it outloud and it will “happen”.
He tends to reside in a world where what he says is HIS reality and not what actually happens.
His older brother, is so not in tune to his brothers disorder. And there really is nothing that I can say to give him an understanding of it all. It is as if it is just going to have to unfold and “happen” however it happens.
I think it is hard for family members to get it. Until they see it FOR themselves.
Maybe your sister has to experience this particular experience for herself with your mother? Maybe that is what it will take. Who knows what that “experince” with your mother might be before she has a “light bulb” moment? Maybe she will never have it. But you can’t prevent it. And maybe you shouldn’t try……
This is what I am concluding in my personal situation. My older son does not see his brother through my lenses. He is not living here at home, he is married and has his own life. He sees some things his brother is doing that he doesn’t understand…..But is a long way off from connecting the dots.
I will be here for him if and when he does…..And maybe he never will. I guess that is ok to.
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banana says:
I think Oxy would agree, that this article is SPOT ON to my needs right now.
Amazingly as people before have said… I no-longer need anti-depressants since leaving the life with the S/P.
But alas, he is my son’s father. I must be diligent, but NOT hyper vigilant.
Thanks “duped”. What a revelation!
PS: yes. Marijuana can get you high once ingested, but if Duped has never “done” marijuana before it may not register…your body sometimes must be exposed a few times.
Duped was “parsley” on your children’s nuggets? It would have been nice to be able to prove he fed them “drugs”.
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OxDrover says:
I don’t know how long ago the “parsley” was on there, but HAIR TESTS can prove up to three months, maybe longer, as evidence of this is stored in the hair. I used to do pre employment drug screenings, and you wouldn’t believe how much liquid people would drink to wash it out of their systems and it DID work some of the time—but I suggested to the company that they start doing HAIR and then guys would shave their heads, so we took beard hair, then they started shaving off beards too, well then we took under arm or crotch hair—and we had to watch them cut it so it was amazing how many would leave before the test, “they forgot to run to the bank, be right back…” and never of course came back to the clinic. It was SOOOO Funny!
Of course, you might be able to PROVE YOUR KID HAD BEEN EXPOSED, but since your kid is so young, you probably couldn’t prove HOW they got it, it would be a he said-she said.
But just FYI if anyone has to do a drug test again, get an order for a HAIR TEST, if you are sure you are clean for at least 3 months.
My husband ate a whole pan of brownines one of his older kids had cooked with gosh knows how much MJ in it (years before we married) My husband did not smoke or drink alcohol, so I imagine it really got him high. He said he remembered crawling up the stairs to go to bed, but couldn’t get up on the bed, so pulled a pillow down and slept on the floor, laughing at everything.
Yes, Banana HYPER vigilence is definitely going to keep you distracted so that you RE-act instead of ACT, and keep your wits scattered about your feet. You need ALL of your wits right now to try to stay as close to sane as you can get under the circumstances. This guy really knows how to pull your chaini, and you have got to DISCONNECT his access to it!
Don’t get excited over the small things, and remember, no BLOOD, no worry—kids are resilient and your kid will survive being with the crazy grandma a time or two, and all the other stuff, so don’t let any of this guy’s drama upset you. When you start to feel upset, CHANT: THIS IS ALL DRAMA TO UPSET ME, I WILL NOT LET IT WORK!
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ErinBrock says:
Do they sell those brownies at the bakery……Today…..I could use a good laugh!
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Twice Betrayed says:
Cat: you can find full spectrum lighting bulbs in many home stores and use them in your lamps/lights. [I got some at Home Depot]. The more you use the more like sunshine in your home. You can also buy them online…just google. I have friends that live up north and northeast and they really suffer…and they use light boxes. Just google for them also and best price.
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Spirit40 says:
CAT , Thank you, exactly… no I must have been really bored to get up , muster up the courage to make my way downtown to the courthouse…. to be turned away… its ok most of them are just full of steam right.. just go home it will be ok ..cause we change our minds we must deserve the abuse for real…. Well this also solidifies my desire to be a victim advocate…. one more semester to go …wooo hooo…you are not as weak as you appear…. I love the analogy for fear…
F everything and run…. not us we are survivors! I Will not let anyone BREAK MY SPIRIT !
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sistersister says:
OxDrover — Thanks for the further validation. Thirty-five years is too long to wait, but it happened.
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sistersister says:
Weird coincidence: My sister has the same birthday as my uncle: November 18. Both are just lost to reality.
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OxDrover says:
Wits, your advice is right on, and it is the hardest thing in the world to actually DO…let others take their own lumps, you can only do what you can do. Sure, we try to get them to SEE and to believe us, but until they actually SEE what is going on, it is like my husband’s color blindness, he could NOT SEE that pink goop on the freaking sink, it was invisible to him—and that is the same with others.
When I tried to show my egg donor the mug shot and rap sheet of the P she didn’t believe it, she said that I had “made it up on my computer”—-talk about DENIAL. I begged her to call the sheriff, but she refused, she would be “embarassed” she said!
Then, a few days later her attorney told me the sheriff was MAD AT ME FOR MAKING UP SUCH LIES…which proved to me that even her lawyer, mr. HOT SHOT NARCISSISTIC SCUM BAG LAWYER had not even talked to the sheriff either. Or else he would have known the truth, he didn’t even try to find out the truth.
I swear, it is so frustrating sometimes and even the cyber skilelt won’t pound sense into their heads. It doesn;’t mean they are stupid, they are just (Except for the freaking scum bag lawyer) P-BLIND. They make excuses, just LIKE WE USE’TA DO. that’s how we can know what they are feeling and thinking cause WE DID THE SAME THING!!!
Gosh, I was WARNED about some of the Ps I did business with, and warned about the P-boss I went to work for, she had a REPUTATION all right—but I only believed when she “hit me up side the haid!”
She screamed at me like a banshee, and I found out later she had done the same thing to everyone in the office, but I put my resignation in her in-box the next morning before she got there. She came into my office and said “Oxy, I think we need to talk” and I said “I don’t think so, you said plenty yesterday” Those were the last words I ever spoke to her, and I worked out my notice NC with her, pretended I didn’t see her if we crossed in the hall way. She had NOT expected me to quit, but to stay there like all the others because I needed the job. She didn’t realize I would have quit no matter what, but I had another job before the week was out. I feel sorry for those people who “had” to stay there with that witch for a boss. But I didn’t choose to stay, and fortunately, I have never had problems finiding a job. If it had been necessary, i would have taken one that meant I had to say “would you like fries with that?” But, actually it was a godsend and got me out of that madhouse…literally.
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duped says:
Since there’s been some discussion about the specifics of the parsley flakes incident, I thought I’d clarify. When I said evening class, perhaps night class would have been most explanatory. I did not get home until between 9:30 and 10 p.m. The kids where in bed, so I have no idea what was served to them (chances are good my eldest was left to fend for himself and the youngest ate something I’d specifically prepared for him since he was just a one year old at the time) and I went to bed shortly there after. If it was intoxicating, I wouldn’t have known.
The fact of the matter is, one shouldn’t have to think twice about eating something prepared by their significant other. I didn’t need to be more vigilant about behaving normally, I needed to make better choices from the get go about hooking up with Mr. Abnormal.
Which brings me to codependency. When all you know is crazy, the radar doesn’t sound; making it easy to ignore or excuse behaviors during the getting attached part of relationship building. Fortunately, I no longer have that problem. Unfortunately, I now sense crazy, of varying levels, so quickly I rarely get past a first date without counting my blessings and moving on!
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lostlittlegirl says:
Wow! Did a light bulb go on for me when I read this. Now those hemp lotions,etc. my former step-son got me for Christmas make sense! I was dealing with a father and son TEAM! And not that long after, sonny boy got in trouble, so Daddy had to start drug testing him. I feel soooooo dumb.
Will I ever sort this all out. I really don’t think so. Do I have a chance for survival with my kids against this??
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OxDrover says:
Dear Duped,
I personally don’t like the term “co-dependent” but prefer to refer to it as “enabling”–in other words, essentially the same thing, in that WE are taking care of someone else’s problems that RIGHTFULLY belong to THEM, not us.
I don’t think that makes us DEPENDENT on them, though we can become ADDICTED to them, but I don’t know that is always the case, so I just sum it up as doing for others what they should be doing for themselves—whatever our motive is.
Whether that is picking up your kids clothes out of the floor (assuming they are old enough to do so) or bailing your scum bag out of jail. The princlple is THE SAME. It is still ENABLING them to go on with their inappropriate behavior and WE take the consequences.
I think when we simplify our lives to look at WHAT IS MY RESPONSIBILITY vs What is YOUR responsibility, it is pretty easy to see where we are being “healthy” or not being healthy.
Sure the woman/man who bails the creep out of jail may RATIONALIZe that if they don’t bail them out, they will lose their job and the mortage won’t get paid, but….well, you get the idea.
I think any time we do for others whether the motive is “selflessness” or whether it is to try to ‘fix” them, giving toio much to others and not enough for ourselves is not good survival strategy.
Being a psychopath must have some “survival” strategy in the long haul, because look how many of them there are, and when the resources are limited they get theirs, no matter who else doesn’t, plus with the males especially, they spread their “seed” around that is for sure—along with STDs and so on.
You are a stronger woman than you may realize, so you keep on keeping on! YOU WILL GET THROUGH THIS, you have the “net work” behind you as Verison says and we are a powerful network too! (((hugs)))
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Lillian says:
Hi All: What a thread. Hyper Vigilence. Until I read this I called it I am tired but I don’t want to sleep. So I just don’t sleep. The blog was very interesting and helpful. Thank you. A note to the pot brownies. My dear friend gave me a small baggie of medicinal pot popcorn. Thinking of it like popcorn my two friends and I ate it up. It was stunningly delicious. We were high for 12 hours. Wow. It had been a while but the relaxed dazed state was there. So much better than smoking….. What a treat!
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Spirit40 says:
Cat, Sorry pardon me its an acronym for fear my bad….gee wonder where my head is at….better today with a good nights sleep…
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duped says:
Well said, Oxy! Since “codependency” was initially a term to describe what happens to enablers of addicts, I agree it doesn’t seem befitting to use the same term for others; even if the symptoms are very similar. It was a hard term and diagnosis for me to swallow for awhile. The literature on the subject can be helpful, however, if you replace “drug of their choice” with “exploitation of others”.
Thanks!
Duped
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banana says:
Oxy,
Just catching up with you.
I was at the pediatrician office yesterday for a well-child visit and the Dr. Recommended the seasonal flu shot, so I got it, barely blinking or thinking. When my S/P gets wind of this he’ll come up with some reason to belittle me.
My only concern is; what will the courts think?
Thanks,
B
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Spirit40 says:
Duped,
Thank you for the post on Nov 24 10:56 p.m. it really helps understanding where it comes from =) ….
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witsend says:
Bananna,
The courts ALWAYS look at what is in the best interest of the child.
A flu shot especially this year seems like a very reasonable concern for your child.
If you can, why not get a note from your doctor BEFORE your X even catches wind of this. Ask the doc to just give a note that he recommended the shot for your son.
AND let the note speak for itself. Do not engage in any conversation with your X about this. Ask that a duplicate note also be put in your sons file at the doctors office.
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ErinBrock says:
Bananna:
Wits is right…….the BEST interest of the children.
I want to caution you NOT to allow him, his moves etc…..to get in the way of your parenting. It’s not like you allowed your New way Dr to give your son a labotomy or put him on 1000MG of corn flake injections to prevent hair loss when he’s 60. It was a FLU SHOT!!!!
Many parents put up the ‘no inoculation’ fights…..and he may go this route……BUT……don’t let him control this……you are being a good parent, prudent and cautious…..not out of line.
I know what it feels like to ‘parent’ based on what the courts or ex will judge you on……BUT the reality is……YOU WILL NEVER WIN over this stress.
Give it up to the universe……know your a good parent, make the best decisions YOU know how and in the best interest of your child. This will be evident at your hearing.
Your child will lose in the long run and you all along if you ‘parent’ based on what others expect or reactions ‘may’ be.
Give that some serious thought…….
Eliminate that from your stressors.
Remember 99.9% of things we worry about…..are fruitless!!!
Good luck!
XXOO
EB
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Cat says:
TB, thank you for the info. I’ll be googling this morning. I live in the north and I empathize with those who deal with this. It’s so not fun!
Spirit, Why, OF COURSE you had nothing better to do!
I ran into the same thing. When I didn’t press charges the first time, the police here just let him have his way until I took the evidence in for the debit card theft. That is an automatic felony, btw, at least in this state and the amount doesn’t matter. I actually had a detective who pressed the charges. He said that way he couldn’t come back on me. The detective and ONE officer out of the entire city have stood by me. I’m thankful for those 2, but when you don’t press charges, they get mad and just write you off.
I heard that acronym a while ago. The other one I hear was Face Everything And Recover. They both have worked for me at various times. You are too funny! Hope you slept well…zzzzzzzz….
witsend to runningaway-well said! It’s no secret on here one of the biggest challenges I’ve dealt with is my own family enabling HIM to keep doing what he’s doing. I realized they see him through a different pair of glasses, the ones I used to wear. We all know about that special pair of glasses that blinds us to the lies, cheating and stealing. They blind us to the word games and the sick state of mind these people are really in. I can’t MAKE them take those off. That won’t happen until he’s burned them. I received the following phone message from my mother (say hello to the mistress of guilt):
“Can you please tell —–, (my ex Spath) to write a thank you note to all of us who helped get him out of jail? He is starting to upset a few of us.”
HELLO! Like I’m going to call this person and tell him to write a thank you note for getting him out of jail when it was MY debit card he stole that PUT him in jail? I laughed so hard, my butt fell off and then I felt sad for them…some will get and there are those who might never get it.
They don’t understand that in his mind, he was ENTITLED to that AND the hotel room they paid for that he stayed in for a few days. They will though and this is how they have to learn, like we did. That epiphany, for me, was a mix of pain, hurt and the realization he would never change mixed with relief and a host of other emotions. As Ox said, enabling. I did that in a 1,000 ways and members of my family are doing it now. When they take their lumps, I’ll be the first to understand, though at this point, I can only stay away.
I can see what you are saying about one son not understanding what the other really is. That has to be very hard on you, as a mother. Sending hugs for that!
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OxDrover says:
Dear Erin,
The television and newspapers have been FILLED with the CDC and other official medical groups BEGGING people to get the flu shots for their babies and young children. Over 500 kids have DIED from the H1N1 flu already–so GET THAT ONE FOR YOUR CHILD as well. You would be going against everything known by medical science about flu if you did not get the shots for your CHILD and yourself.
Now–the flu shots can NOT cause “the flu” and you will hear people say “I took that shot and got the flu” and what happened is that it takes about 2 weeks to get protection from the flu after you get the shot, and they had already been exposed to the flu at the time they got the shot, and the symptoms just hadn’t started yet, so they blamed it on the shot.
Lots of people who wouldn’t think anything about getting in a bar brawl where pool cues are swinging are AFRAID of needles. Go figure!
It is important that you follow your DOCTOR’s medical suggestions for WELL BABY care and immunizations because these have been WELL TESTED by BIG RESEARCH for millions of kids to give your son the best chance of avoiding dieseases that will hurt or kill him.
The court is not going to make you let your uneducated dumbass X go against all the medical wisdom in the country.
I hope he does throw a fit about it in the court, A BIG FIT, LET HIM RANT AND RAGE AND ANYTHING because it will ONLY make him look like the DUMB ASS he is.
Bottm line is DO WHAT IS RIGHT FOR YOUR CHILD and do not worry about what the x or the court says, my bet is though, that the court will back you 100%.
The only reason that your husband wasnt to go to the well baby check ups is to see you. You might even call and talk to the doctor and tell the doc that you are sending the baby with your husband instead of coming yourself, but that you want to know what he recommends at that stage. Then send your son with your husband, no need for two parents there, just him. Then if necessary, go back to the doctor and get any injections he recommended that the x wouldn’t let him give or whatever. That way, the arse doesn’t get a chance to be with you for an hour or two in the waiting room and to over power you in the exam room.
Keep in mind, there is more than one way to kill a cat without choaking it with butter–I’m still trying to figure out how, but in the meantime I am choaking mine on goat milk. Every morning she comes into the kitchen and softly meows for her goat milk…still hasn’t killed her but I figure it may take 12 or 15 years to succeed, so I will keep on trying. LOL
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skylar says:
I’m glad this topic was brought up because PTSD and hypervigilence is probably the most lasting effect of life with a P. Even when in denial, like I am most of the time, I can’t deny the obvious choices I make when I look around for his car, or when I park my car in such a way that it can’t be seen.
I’ve even used a fake name here and there, just in case word gets back to him about who I’m dating (someone he knows). We avoid getting photographed together, we’re building new garages, and installing more security systems at my BF’s house. I’m actually more worried about my BF than about me because he knows better than to mess with me. I told him that I know all his dirty secrets and I’ve told all his friends what he is: a sociopath. He knows I made recordings of our conversations, so if anything happens to me, the cops will know he did it and ALL of his dark secrets will unravel.
Life with the P always felt like “spy vs. spy”. At least now I know what I’m dealing with. Before, I thought he was so smart, now I know that he is just an audacious and shameless liar with no limits on the behavior he will indulge in. I also know that I won on the day I foiled his plans by leaving.
So anyway, here’s a song that might amuse you all.
http://www.sing365.com/music/l.....B0002CC4EF
We mention the title to each other (LIFE DURING WARTIME) whenever we find ourselves looking over our shoulders or implementing any defensive strategy.
Here are the lyrics:
http://www.sing365.com/music/l.....B0002CC4EF
QUOTE FROM LIFE DURING WARTIME.
We dress like students, we dress like housewives
or in a suit and a tie
I changed my hairstyle so many times now
don’t know what I look like!
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witsend says:
Cat,
Thanks for the hug! Some days I really do need those hugs.
You know some folks aren’t just wearing the rose colored glasses….In some people the denial runs so deep, they will never “see” even when it is knocking right at THEIR door.
I think we have all experienced denial in different degrees….It kind of goes along with the territory of experience with an S/P/N. Alcoholism and other addictions within a family also creates alot of denial.
But your message from your mom was CLASSIC!
The man who just got out of jail needs to “mind his manners” and send thank you notes….OMG.
Many years ago my MIL stood on my porch and told me that her son (my husband) NEVER had a drinking problem until he met ME. I asked her about his previous DUI’s (way before I met him) She ignored my question but then SAID,
“when he moved out of our house we found 50 empty vodka bottles in his bedroom”. Hmm, no drinking problem……???
OMG, why would she even say this to me if she is trying to convince me he doesn’t have a problem?
This is way over the top denial. And to this day she says her son never had a drinking problem.
He commited suicide in her house, there was an empty vodka bottle, next to him, the police report included the high alcohol level found in him…….Yet she denies all of it. He was sober when he died.
If I didn’t know this woman, I would not have ever realized how deep denial can really be.
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OxDrover says:
Dear Wits,
Well, let’s see, your son is going to california, and he don’t need no stinking education, that is for ordinary people…he’s going to be rich and successful, he’s got a plan….
And, oh, my P son is gonna get out of prison and come up here to the farm to live on his grandmother’s money for a while, but then when the old bat dies (of some kind of accident where she falls and hits her head no doubt) he will have all that money to buy falshy cars and find really good looking chicks and can probably come up with some kind of thing that will make him filthy wealthy like his P-grandfather, my sperm donor, and life will be GRAND and women will just be falling all over him, even if he has spent his total adult life in prison and is no longer a “good looking young man” but a rode-hard and put up wet kind of bald guy with a tough swagger and a very foul mouth.
Denial runs both ways, the victims are in denial, but the psychopaths and disordered personalities are ALSO in denial. They dream up a fantasy and becasue they can dream it, they just know it will WORK even though there is NO evidence that such a thing is any more possible than for my jack asses to fly to the moon.
GO FIGURE!
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ErinBrock says:
Oxy….I believe your post above was directed to Bananna…..
You addressed it to me!
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Cat says:
Wit, I hear you and you are most welcome! Anytime. We all need a hug now and then.
Yes, isn’t that just a HOOT?!? Like I’m in charge of family etiquette…? I rarely SEE my family!
It’s sad, but so many, like your MIL are like that. What they never get is that THEY are now part of the problem. She enabled him with her denial. (I did exactly the same for a very long time.) So much for her ever wearing those glasses.. How sad that he died right there. I think that maybe you needed to see this, and now share it, so that all of us can see how deep denial goes.
I’ve asked questions, such as you did, and had them glossed over. It’s like I never even asked. That’s complete, total denial and I’ve come to believe it affects the ears as well as the eyes. I feel it’s all part of the hyper vigilance and PTSD as well. We become so hypersensitive to what others are doing and saying, we lose all perception. I know I did.
My father is one who gets exactly what my ex is about. He was NOT in favor of getting him out of jail and if that happened, he was trying to get him to leave the state. My father was a cop and in intelligence with the Air Force for many years. He knows the ropes and he knows what he sees. My mother and sisters are a different story and that’s where the rubber meets the road. I pick and choose who I communicate with in my family and now, anyone can see why…STILL ROFLMAO…OOPS, IT FELL OFF AGAIN!
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ErinBrock says:
OXY:
Do you think denial is the same as fantasy?
I’m thinking denial is a way of life……a thought process….
Fantasy may be a willfull belief in the untrue, impossible, unbelievable or probable.
BTW….when are the asses departing for the moon, you might want to sell tickets?
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OxDrover says:
Yea, DUH! I saw that after it was posted. LOL I was looking at your post to her and then just put your name in. Now you know why I RETIRED, if I was giving out medications I would have given hers to you! A mind is a bad thing to waste—if you have one, and I am obviously losing what I had
! LOL Thanks!
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OxDrover says:
Erin,
We sort of posted over each other there– to answer your question I think DENIAL is a sort of way to maintain the fantasy. Whether it is the victim denying that the abuser isn’t going to get better (maintains the fantasy that they love the victm) or if it is the abuser’s DENIAL that he isn’t going to get what he wants (whatever that is) with force.
I dont think denial and fantasy are the same thing, but it is ONLY with DENIAL that you can maintain whatever FANTASY you are trying to maintain.
Short term, denial is good…like a sudden death you deny when you are told “Oh, it couldn’t bee, I just saw him this morning” it is a protective emotion to keep us from having TOO MUCH bad information at once, LIke you can eat an entire elephant, just one bite at a time.
LONG TERM denial though is a failure, a refusal to ACCEPT what is obvioius.
It is denying the truth that you know. “OH, I don’t have to study for that test, I can pass any way”—then going to the party instead of studying, then the consequences, flunk the test. Then deny that education is important, “I’m so smart I reallydont’ need and eeucation” Can’t get a job, because of no education “They are discriminating against me, I could do that job if they would just give me a chance, it is all their rotten selfish fault.”
“I need to send money to my P grandson in prison and leave him money in my will because he needs a chance to reform when he gets out, I don’t really belive he tried to have Oxy killed, I think it was just the Trojan Horse P and the DIL that dreamed that up, my grandson loves me and I want him to come home and have a good life.” Ignoring all the PROOF that my P son DID try to hve me killed, but she “doesn’t want to believe that” so she doesn’t. No amount of evidence could convince her of the truth.
I heard our Ex AR gov last night on the news. His record of releasing prisoners for “a second chance” has not been good. He released one rapist who raped and killed again, I said yesterday it was only a month after he was released, I correct myself, Wayne Dumond was out 11 months before he raped and killed the victim this time.
The guy in Washington was a perfect example of someoone who should NOT have been let out, but the gov blames the parole board, but several articles said that the members of the board were PRESSURED by the gov to approve the parole after the gov commuted his sentence, So the gov has “deniability” and the parole board has “deniability”
Huckabee released over twice as many convicts as other governors. Even Cllinton.
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witsend says:
ErinBrock,
Denial is different than fantasy. The brain is a such a complicated thing.
It was explained to me once. BUT we ALL know how good I am with words! (NOT) I will do my best.
Denial begins almost like a defense mechanism. Stuff that we can’t accept or is to painful to face. By denying something that is painful even exist we don’t have to deal with it.
Denial can be kind of a proccess. We get little tid bits of information that we don’t want to believe right away. So initially it is protecting us. But as more information is presented to us we start to see the cold hard truth. And we can begin to move out of denial and into the reality of the situation.
The depths that denial can go are beyond my understanding.
I have to laugh….During the course of typing this my phone rang and it was my MIL. (she rarely calls me) AND she is the classic example of being in the depths of denial.
I’m sure you can guess whom she chooses to be in denial about now….You got it her grandson….OMG, my heart is racing from a few minute phone conversation….
She just can NOT understand why her granson isn’t taking drivers ed? I am standing in his way of getting a drivers licence.
I tried to explain how he might take drivers ed if he would accept responsibility in school and EVEN begin to understand that the rules DO APPLY to him, just as they do for the other students.
I explained to her that if the rules don’t apply to him (in any aspect of his life so far) isn’t that kind of scarey letting him drive a car? She didn’t get it. Imagine that?
I believe early research was done on denial in the form of addictions. Because it is a common in addicts and their extended family.
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witsend says:
Oxy,
Its ok that you posted to Erin instead of Bananna. Yesterday I posted to myself……As henry can attest to.
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witsend says:
Cat,
It is really good that someone in your family does see the reality of the situation. Your dad having been a cop is even better yet. He has seen alot, I’m sure in that line of work.
I think it really helps to have a close friend or a family member that “gets it”. It helps to be able to talk to a “live” person sometimes….I think it keeps us grounded when sometimes we are reeling from the non reality the S/P/Ns bring into our lives.
How does he deal with your mom and sister?
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