Recovering from a sociopath: acceptance and focusing on now
Lovefraud has heard from a woman who we’ll call “Sally.” Sally is dealing with a sociopathic man who threatened to kill her, sabotage her daughter’s career and injure other family members. She says law enforcement either doesn’t believe her or doesn’t care.
Sally has been in touch with another of the sociopath’s victims, and they’ve helped each other through the nightmare. Still, people in regular support groups don’t believe them, and friends and family members have backed away. A lawyer and a therapist have backed away.
Sally recently sent Lovefraud the following e-mail:
You just can’t imagine this, because I can’t either. The person that was me is gone … and no one has taken her place.
I know who I was with all my faults and history … I was comfortable there. I guess this is a journey … but to where I don’t know. There is no light.
For 62 years I was me and now I am gone. What will I be? Will I be able to live with who I end up being?
I’m sitting in my living room and I am crying and I don’t know why. For the loss of hope? For fear? Fear of the future … for breast cancer … for the loss of my two best friends? For being stupid? For losing my children? And I am responsible for these losses.
I am dull, I am inert. I fill my head with senseless TV – I don’t know what I’m watching.
I want to dance and sing and laugh. I want to ride bareback thru the fields and listen to the silence.
But I will do none of those things. They’re only dreams. I am too tired. They are too far away from my new reality. Reality is my home, my prison, the awake hours. My routine – sleep as long as I can – take pills to help me not to have panic attacks – sometimes I eat. Day is night, and night is day … there’s no difference anymore.
I am smothered in sadness – and I am so angry, at myself.
I used to accomplish so much in a day and now it can all wait for another day.
I remember the hopelessness. I remember feeling that I had nothing to hold on to, that everything I knew was gone. I had no plans for the future, no idea of what was to become of me.
And I remember coming to terms with it.
How can you possibly come to terms with the devastation wrought by a sociopath? My healing involved two related and intertwined adjustments in my thinking.
Acceptance
The first adjustment was that I had to accept what happened.
Everything I was told by my sociopathic ex-husband was a lie. I had been deceived, swindled and betrayed. He had convinced me to spend all of my money, and go into debt, to support his grandiose plans. I’d neglected my own business to participate in his schemes. I’d won a judgment against my ex in court, but it was useless. I’d spent money I didn’t have on collection agencies and lawyers, and came up empty. I would not get any satisfaction from my ex.
I was broke and had no prospects for stable income. I did not know how I would survive, and I couldn’t argue with my circumstances any longer. The day finally came when I had to accept that, for the time being, this was my life.
Present moment
The second adjustment in my thinking was to focus on the present moment.
We all spend a lot of time reliving the past and projecting into the future. We ruminate over everything that happened with the sociopath. We worry about what will happen to our jobs, our kids, our homes.
Although this is legitimate, the only place where we truly live is right now, in the present moment. We can only take action now. So much like recovering from an addiction, we have to take our lives one day at a time.
It’s not easy. We want to know that we’ll be okay. We want to know how everything will work out. But I learned that if we give up our expectations of what ought to be, life can bring us wonderful solutions that we didn’t even think of.
This is one of the big themes in my book, Love Fraud—How My Marriage to a Sociopath Fulfilled My Spiritual Plan, which will be published in the spring.
Suggestions for Sally
So what should Sally do? From her letter, it sounds like she is suffering from depression. This is no surprise. We all know that the devastation wrought by sociopaths, and the callous response of the legal and financial systems, can leave us depressed.
Maybe Sally is strong enough to cope with the depression on her own. But if she feels like she needs assistance, that’s one step that she can take right now, today—seeking treatment for depression.
It would be a step towards her healing. For Sally to continue to move forward, I lovingly suggest the approach that I outline here—accepting what has happened, and focusing on one day at a time.
It’s not easy. Accepting what has happened leads us to grief over what we have lost. The grief needs to be processed, and it’s not fun. Actually, that may be where Sally is right now. There’s no way to avoid the pain; we have no choice but to move through it. But it does come to an end.
The process is much more manageable if we only deal with this day, or perhaps this hour. For Sally to try to sort out the rest of her life right now would be impossible, and probably counterproductive.
Sally has dreams. She wants to sing and dance and ride bareback through the fields, listening to the silence. Sally should hold on to her dreams, even though, at this point, she does not know how they will be realized.
Right now she’s moving through the rough patch. But each day moves her one day closer to the possible fulfillment of her dreams. All she has to do is hold on, and gradually, her ability to accomplish will return.
Who will she be? An even better version of who she was.
written by Donna Andersen • Permalink •
OxDrover says:
Thanks, Donna for this article.
Sally, I think many of the bloggers here at loveFraud have been where you are. WORLD UPSIDE DOWN, and depressed. Grieving. Seeing little or no hope opr light at the end of a long black tunnel.
The details of how you wound up there, how I wound up there, and others wound up in that darky abyss actually don’t matter except to us individually, the general process was the same—we were victims of a psychopath’s maneuvers to destroy everything we were and everything we had for no other reason that greed and the enjoyment of doing so.
They take everything not because they want it, but because they don’t want us to have ti. If we care about it, they want to take that joy away from us.
We grieve for the loses we have endured, suffered. The pain is almost unbearable, and like a sick and injured dog we want to find a place to crawl linto and lick our wounds.
This place we crawl into is the grief process, which is filled with undulating emotions that seem to roll over us like surf onto a beach in unstoppable waves out of our control.
We can’t avoid those waves of emotions, each one different, then the same, but in order to oget back on our ship of life we must wade and crawl and swim through those waves after waves to get back to life, the only other option is to continue to lie helpless of the beach of despair, still dashed by those waves continually.
Sally, they can buffet us, they can knock us down, but they can’t truly destroy us if we won’t allow it. I too am 62, lwill be 63 in a couple of weeks, but after months of lying on the beach of despair, I started crawling back toward the life boat, and I am glad I did, There are many people here at LF who will chear you on as you struggle through those waves to get off the beach of despair and back into your own life boat.
Life is not over until you give up. Reach out to take our hands and work throuigh this with us cheering you on! God bless you Sally. (((hugs))))
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Monday, 16 November 2009 @ 12:04pm
C0l0rad0 says:
Dear Sally,
It saddens me to hear the pain that has wrapped itself around you tightly. Only time will get you through to the other side. You must process this as it comes. Be patient with yourself. You have the right to feel the way you do but it won’t last forever. Even broke, don’t you feel as though a weight has been lifted off your heart and soul? Don’t you sleep better and breathe better now? If you are alone it might take longer to step through it all. This is not a good time to be alone. Try to fill your days with good people and fun projects. Bake, clean, walk someone’s dog. Enjoy the smallest of things you may have overlooked. Pour your heart into that book you’re writing. Write it for all of us. The sadness will lift, promise.
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Monday, 16 November 2009 @ 12:45pm
Cat says:
Like the willow, I learned that while I may bend, I wouldn’t break. It is a FALSE belief that these P.’s like to put in our head. They WANT us to believe we will crack. I believe, Sally, that you will come through this and be that much stronger for it.
I suscribe to the “just for today” theory. It helped me get out of the cycle of wanting to sleep and then having to get up just to face another day. Each day gets better and better and I know that those feelings will come, yet again, and wash over me. I try to remember that each time they do, it’s part of the cleansing process and each time it happens, I’m that much farther ahead. I am able to put my head down at night and know, that at least for today, I’ve done the best I can.
You are a special person. There is only one you. You were put here for a reason and while you may not see that now, you will.
I’ve been on here for only a short while and have learned so much.
Sending hugs and God’s Blessings,
Cat
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Monday, 16 November 2009 @ 1:09pm
breckgirl says:
There is a blog by a woman named Susan J. Elliott – it is called Getting Past Your Past – How To Turn a Devastating Loss Into The Best Thing That Ever Happened To You – and I highly recommend it. I found it before I found Love Fraud and the two blogs have helped me so tremendously. Here is the link:
http://gettingpastyourpast.wordpress.com/
She has also written a book that has much helpful information and exercises to help one grieve and integrate the losses suffered so you/I/we can move on and forward with our lives.
God bless you – and yes depression and despair are a normal reaction to the pain and suffering and deception you have experienced Sally. Please seek help for yourself – I don’t know how I would have made it without my therapist.
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Monday, 16 November 2009 @ 1:21pm
alicia says:
Sally, I know exactly how you feel because I feel the same way too. It is as if you are telling my story as far as feeling hopeless, depressed, and crying because you want to be the woman you were before and all the pain and hurt and anger and betrayal – all of it. I HATE IT! I’m new here. I’ve only written once before and I received support from some caring people. I printed out what they told me to do and I read them often. I know everything they told me is true and if I follow what they say, I will have a future and make it. I know you will if you continue to come to lovefraud, get help and have the support of family and friends, etc. It is not easy, believe me, but you will make it! The nutcase I was with for 5 years intermittently lives 7 doors away from me with latest victim who he was cheating on me with. Once he had her hooked, he dropped me, just like that, no explanation, no goodbye, no chance for me to speak, vent, anything! Although their relationship is a rocky one and very dysfunctional because they are alike in a lot of ways, she is so different from me except that she believed his lies too, was lonely, he was so sweet and loving in the beginning and she must have low self esteem. Plus she is 50 and I am 54 so you know how that goes. I tried to warn her, but she could care less. People say she is using him for his money. I say: what money? He didn’t have any money when he was with me. At the end, he was stealing money from me to use for her. I didn’t realize it at the time, but I see so many things clearly now such as “the receipt fell out of the bag” and so much more. I am still having a very difficult time because they both live here. She is not very nice to me at all so I am dealing with two sociopaths. She tells people she does not like him, is not in love with him, disgusted with him, etc., etc., etc., BUT she is still living with him. I don’t get it, but I’m not supposed to because it is their business not mine. It’s difficult to stay out of his business though because he STILL tries to get me to feel sorry for him and listen to his lies and messages to get back to me about “how much he misses me” and “he wishes he was still with me because I was nicer to him.” He still knocks on my door occasionally, but I don’t answer. He even called me once and I called and told her, which he denied. He told her that he never went out with me and I am some lunatic crazy person who has trying to get him for years. RIGHT! She made sure she told me that. She also calls me “that woman.” I do have a name. I don’t know if she is playing head games with me like he did and still does or if she is just mean. All I know is that I feel stuck in a rut and as many times as I have felt like my old self before him, I quickly go back to the depressed person. Having bipolar depression doesn’t help and a history of attempted suicides doesn’t help either. I am so lonely. I have no family here and I’ve lost all my friends except for one, but she is still hanging on a string with a sociopath she has been with for 8 years. I hate life and if I belived I would go to heaven if I committted suicide, I would. i don’t see a future for me. I call the police on him now for every single thing he does to me. They don’t do anything.!!!
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Monday, 16 November 2009 @ 6:25pm
geminigirl says:
Dearest Sally, When I left my P ex husband ,who was an alcoholic,and a gambler,after hed beaten me nearly unconscious, I had only the clothes I stood up in. Both my daughters are ps{narcissopaths} too, and they sided with their dad. So I was truly on my own. I found a tiny furnished flat,{condo}moved in, in Dec.,1982, My landlady reduced my weekly rent if I gave her a facial once a week.{I went on unemployment benefits for th first time in my life.} I turned the tiny spare bedroom into my healing clinic,-i have certs in massage, shiatsu, andaromatherapy.I prayd to god every night, and He helped me wonderfully. I remember I prayed one night for food,as I had one egg and 2 slices of bread in my fridge,and next day my P daughter rang to say a sportsperson had rung re a massage from me. he came round, he was Ok, not a sexual predator, he had a “corked” thigh muscle which I fixed for him. He gave me A$25,- I went out and bought food, and from that day, I was OK. My ex used to say to my girls,”Mum will come home when shes hungry.” I made up my mind NEVER to go back to that awful house, where not only my ex but one of my daughters had beaten me up.{Probably while on drugs, or drunk.} Six months after my break for freedom, I met my darling husband, thru my landladies sister, Trisha, who had a match making dinner party for me and David, her next door neighbor, a divorced man of 50 from new Zealand. he was GORGEOUS!!and we fell in love.This July, we celebrated our 25th Wedding anniversary in Cape Town,South Africa, where we had a 3 week holiday. YOu will get there! keep praying, keep trusting God, He hears you and he WILL help you but you have to ASK for help, or His hands are tied!Take one day at a time, believe god hasa BETTER plan for your life. I left, bruised, battered, with nothing but the clothes I stood up in. It was very HARD to leave my P teenagers. {Not that they missed me in the slightest,they are both hard little b—-ches.}} and I have gone on giving and giving and giving to them for nearly 30 years, thru a false sense of guilt.FOG, its called,–fear, obligation, and guilt. I have learned SO much from Love fraud since finding the site in June this year. Iv e learned HEAPS! and to stand up for myself, and not take any more crap from my P . adult kids.Some of us are newbies, some are “Den Mothers” like Oxy, but were all in this together, we are FAMILY!!Good Luck, you will make it, take one day at a time. depression meds may help you, I resisted taking them as they made me feel so zonked out, but they may help temporarily . Do you have a job?How are you financially? can you get by? Anyway, heaps of Love,and {{HUGS}} ,if I can do it, YOU CAN TOO!! GeminigirlXX
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Monday, 16 November 2009 @ 8:49pm
JaneSmith says:
Alicia,
Oh, sweetheart, your post tore at my heart. Your pain and suffering is palpable in your words.
When you wrote that you are so lonely, I instinctively wanted to reach out through my computer monitor and quickly pull you into my arms for a much needed loving hug. I would do it to, but I can’t as I am limited with the internet.
Sweetie, I care about you. I don’t need to know you personally to have genuine compassion for you. Speaking from the heart, being candid and honest on LF creates that most loving of feelings for each other. Plus, all of us on this website have experienced the devastation caused by evil predators, once or many times.
Please don’t leave us. Stay here, sharing and purging and venting for however long you wish. This is one of the best places in the world for healing, recovery and renewal. Just keep on coming back, because you are a valuable, priceless, lovely human woman.
I care. I do. I care deeply.
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Monday, 16 November 2009 @ 9:00pm
JaneSmith says:
Alicia,
I do understand that you are overwhelmed by a myriad of intense emotions. That’s ok. It’s natural to feel this way due to the despicable, utterly cruel, callous, inhuman treatment by a predator. You are not alone. Not here you’re not.
You have been violated. You have been used, abused, devalued and discarded. But you never, not in a million years, deserved to be treated thus. Never.
You are worth a thousand times more than the evil predator. More than that as predators are worth zilch. In time, you will begin to realize this as you begin to accept that he is a personality disordered individual, which in effect means, he is incorrigible, irredeemable, a life long epic failure.
I would kindly suggest that you not internalize his abuse and blame yourself. You are not stupid, or crazy, or hysterical, or foolish, or ugly. You are none of these words! The polar opposite of the words to be exact!
Please, I do implore you as I want you to continue to visit and post on LF, to read and absorb as much of the articles, essays that are written.
You might wish to click on the links for Kathleen Hawk on the left side of the page under categories. She offers illuminating, insightful, and wise healing knowledge that I think you should consider reading. Her tone is soothing and compassionate also which I sincerely appreciate.
I’m going to sign off but I’ll be checking in to read what you have written.
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Monday, 16 November 2009 @ 9:31pm
OxDrover says:
Dear Alicia,
I hear your pain, and I have felt that life wasn’t worth living myself, but I have found that it IS worth living, and it IS worth struggling through all the pain to get to the light! To get to the future, one moment at a time.
The pain, devestation and loss I felt put me squarely on my back, and sometimes we hav eto be flat of our backs to LOOK UP. My faith in God is stronger now than ever before! I don’t think I could have made it out of the abyss without that faith which grew in my heart as I prayed.
I sometimes felt like Job, but also like Job, I have more now than what I lost and most of all, I have ME. A me that is unemcumbered by attachments of toxic hope to relationships what were toxic, that were bad, that were evil with people whose hearts were black. I am free of the psychopaths, free of all they did to me, and I have a better life now than I have ever had. don’t give up hope, Alicia!
Stay here, there are many people here who will support you through the trials and tribulations that we all go through as we work toward healing. You still have the most important thing in life, yourself! My prayers for you my dear, and a big cyber ((((Hug)))) along with Gem and Janie.
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Monday, 16 November 2009 @ 11:36pm
Twice Betrayed says:
Donna, I really appreciate your suggestions. They are so kind, to the point and not overwhelming to process. You understand that when we are in this deep loss stage of grief we cannot process a long drawn out plan and advice. You keep it simple, but true and to the point. Very, very helpful and hopeful.
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Monday, 16 November 2009 @ 11:39pm
angie says:
Dear Sally & Alicia
I am also new to Lovefraud and understand 100% how you both are feeling, i am still trying to get my sociopath out of my life (he just wont’t leave me alone-he is like a yoyo) and am just taking one day at a time, Donna has helped me so much to understand the behaviour of sociopaths and my own feelings as i felt so alone when he left without any warning and then came back then left came back. It has been a very hard and lonely path as noboby seem to understand what i was feeling and going through. It felt to me that everyone around me thought i was the obsessive one as i would predict what would happen and he did things in such a way that he could never be linked to things or when i was alone so it was always my word against his.
I am currently fighting through each day not to repeat my pattern of taking him back just to start over again,he is trying very hard to get back into my life and it is a battle but with Donna’s help i am feeling stronger and stronger with each day. Its a long road but what helped me to get back on the wagon of life was accepting that what he did was not my fault and i did nothing wrong to push him away.
It is still hard for me to believe that the man i loved so dearly and with all my heart doesn’t have one but i have accepted it and with all the information i have now my eyes have been opened.
I believe that if it was not for the support of Donna and Lovefraud i would still be stuck on that rollercoaster.
With time and acceptance of the situation you will get through this and come out a stronger person than you were before.
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Tuesday, 17 November 2009 @ 6:56am
good grief says:
Good morning everyone here at LF!
For those of you that remember me know that much like all of you I was reeling from my interaction with my ex girlfriend who I think is a sociopath. You all know the story because you’ve lived it yourselves. Personally, a brief refresher, she talked marriage and kids and moving here to be with me blah blah bah and then she vanished into thin air. Never uttered a single negative word to me, no provocation, no explanation, no goodbye, just gone.
I tried to get in touch by sending one email a month for 3 months trying to get in touch with her and I got no response. I stopped posting here because my mind was becoming jaded with my intentions to reach her instead of realizing the reality of what she has done.
I still read articles here regularly but I didn’t want to take space in the forums away from people who really needed it because my situation hadn’t changed. After 4 months of NC on my part, after realizing that I’d never hear form her again, and beginning the process of getting over the absolute love of my life, she has resurfaced. I really, truly don’t know how to handle it. All I know is this human being meant more to me than anything and touched me in a way no one ever has. I was never happier in my life until the day she totally sold me out.
She wrote me a brief letter apologizing for everything, said there was no excuse for her to treat me that way and that she is truly sorry. she went on to wish the best for me and my two pets and hoped that I was doing very well. she signed it love and then her name. She didn’t ask any questions or ask for a response but the act of her resurfacing to apologize is meaningful to me.
here is the important part to me, I don’t know if she is just trying to clear her conscience (which I thought sociopaths didn’t have) or if there is a bigger purpose behind her reaching out to me after all this time has passed. She wrote me a week ago, I’m yet to respond.
I have no intentions of clogging these forums up, there are people who need more urgent care then me. I’m still recovering from the tornado that is my ex gf but I miss her to death. My family and friends would probably write me off if I accepted her back into my life but I don’t even know if that’s what she wants nor do I know if it’s what I want. I just know she meant the world to me and I just know that she pretty much destroyed me. I appreciate all insight and if no one responds then I’ll understand that there are more pressing matters than this. I just figured there was no better place to come for a little advice then to the wonderful, well intentioned people here at LF. Thanks in advance. Onward and upward…
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Tuesday, 17 November 2009 @ 9:24am
good grief says:
I’ll just add that I’ve pulled myself out of the rut I was in. I’ve been living it up, traveling all over, reconnecting with old, good friends, and everything has been going very well. But there isn’t a day, maybe not even an hour that passes where I don’t think about this person and what she meant to me and how much I miss her. Not sure how to feel, what to do, etc
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Tuesday, 17 November 2009 @ 9:28am
kmrobinson says:
I, too, find myself questioning who I am. I have spent a decade dealing with a sociopath, a child of a sociopath and the family court system. My son’s father married a bipolar woman with three daughters and the ex husband is where I was when my son was a toddler. He does not have the confidence nor tenacity to take on the court system and the drama that goes with dealing with sociopathic behaviours. And he will lose his children because of it….not in the legal sense but in the moral sense. They will be brainwashed and resentful towards him and he will miss out on the most precious gift of all.
I used to wonder if I did something to incur all this and what kind of parent was I that I would bring a child into this? But I know now, I am a survivor.
I have sole custody of my son now and his father no longer contacts either of us going on 18 months) since I set the rules now. My son no longer has value to his sociopathic father as money and custodial and visitation rights are no longer his battle to fight.
My son obsessed for a while that he had his father’s DNA and that he would be the same…quite frankly I used to worry the same way. But he has something his father never did, a conscience and a heart.
But I can tell you that environment and reassurance can change that. I know now that the purpose his father served in our lives was to make us both strong, confidant people who know right from wrong and can make the most out of life.
My son is in the Big Brother program now and has shared experiences and met some really wonderful people that he would not have had his father been any different. That is his father’s legacy.
My financial state is in ruins, but I appreciate all the little things in life. My son and I share experiences together that would not have happened if I had to share his time with his father or if my financial state was where I projected it to be.
So yes the person I am is because of the person he is but in many ways I am grateful for that. Good always outweighs the bad if you want it to be…..
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Tuesday, 17 November 2009 @ 9:42am
witsend says:
good grief,
It is VERY common what she is doing. Dropping out of your life (w/o a trace) and then resurfacing is very common behavior for these people.
N/C, N/C, N/C……If you were sending her an email a month then you were not maintaining no contact. SHE was doing N/C on you by not responding. Do what SHE did. Do not respond.
If you contact her EVEN once, you will be back into her “game”. Make no mistake it is a GAME.
You said yourself that you just pulled out of the rut you were in. Don’t underestimate this. You will be miserable again in NO TIME if you allow her back into your life.
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Tuesday, 17 November 2009 @ 9:45am
Donna Andersen says:
Good Grief,
I remember your posts from before. I assure you, her letter is nothing but another attempt at manipulation.
Sociopaths frequently return to previous victims just to see if they can bleed them some more. I’ve heard of sociopaths groveling on their hands and knees, begging to be forgiven and taken back into the victim’s life. It’s a stunt. Don’t fall for it.
I’m sure many people here at Lovefraud can echo this statement.
You should not respond. You should not even acknowledge that you received the communication. If it was email, you should block her. If it was postal mail, and you get another letter, you should refuse it. Return to sender.
But how do you cope with your feelings? You must treat this relationship like an addiction, because in reality, that is how your brain perceives it.
Please read the following article from our archives: Why you can be addicted to a sociopath.
http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/.....nd-liking/
If you have contact with her, you’ll be back at square one in trying to break your addiction.
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Tuesday, 17 November 2009 @ 9:54am
Cat says:
Does it not seem as though they almost have a built in radar that KNOWS when we are feeling extra vulnerable or lonely? I know my ex P seems to know when to pounce.
I’m new here as well and still getting this person out of my life. I have found, however, that he can cry at the drop of a hat. He has literally been on his hands and knees begging for whatever he wanted at the time. I no longer respond to this and I’ve been called cold hearted for that. And I don’t respond to that either. I honestly do not love this person, nor do I have any respect for him. It’s a place of total indifference that I am reaching and I like it! He HATES it. Oh well. I take care of me, myself and I to the best of my ability.
It IS an addiction and I read the article on this. It was very enlightening and I can see how I did a lot of those behaviors based on what I perceived at the time.
I feel for everyone who is dealing with this regardless of where you are in the process.
Hugs,
Cat
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Tuesday, 17 November 2009 @ 11:18am
Matt says:
good grief:
I remember you. The letter is a manipulation, pure and simple. I can guarantee you that she has probably exhausted her current source of supply, knows that he’s about to toss her, and she is casting around for a new source of supply. As you’re discovering, NC starts on the physical front and follows on the emotional front. Stick with it. Your life will ultimately be much better for it.
Cat:
Mine was the same way — cry on command, begging on his hands and knees. Funny thing was, by the end, all I remember is watching the performances and noticing how little emotion was going on beneath the surface. Indifference is the best place to be. Keep up the NC.
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Tuesday, 17 November 2009 @ 11:34am
skylar says:
good grief and Cat and everyone who fears being sucked back in or misses their sociopath:
I have one little piece of advice. Get a small recording device and record all conversations with them. In some states you are better off using a video cam or your cell phone vid cam for legal purposes. These recordings serve soooo many purposes, the least of which is to REMIND you of why you left him/her. Time has a way of blurring the awful reality which never really sinks in to begin with. The fact that such HORRIBLE EVIL EXISTS AND WALKS AMONG US, is almost too much for the mind to accept. We justify and water it down a bit so we can deal with it, but that leaves our defenses weakened. We need to have visual and audio reminders of the evil words and deeds so we stay vigilent. For those who are NC, write in a journal, the horror you experienced so you can refer to it in the future.
For me, the recordings have also served to prove the truth of my statements to my friends and the P’s friends. The recordings of him speaking to me are 180 degrees the opposite of what he told everyone else. With these recordings, I have proven myself. Hopefully, in the future they will serve a purpose in the court of law.
Because of these recordings other people have provided me with small amounts of information about the P that I didn’t have. Last of all they confirm my sanity, to myself when I experience doubt and to others who (understandably) can’t believe the unbelievable truth of what the “nice, kind, gentle, animal-loving, intelligent, genious, man” really is.
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Tuesday, 17 November 2009 @ 12:16pm
Rosa says:
Hi Good Grief:
I believe the advice today is the same as it was the last time you were here…..NO CONTACT.
This girl is like a drug to you, very addictive. We established this the last time.
You do not want to go back for another hit off “the drug”.
It sounds like you are doing just fine on your own without her.
Besides, the feelings you have for this girl are not being reciprocated in a healthy way.
Her feelings for you are fragmented, at best.
Unless she’s been fighting over in Iraq for the last few months, there really is no excuse for her behavior of going MIA on YOU, and most relationships can’t function with huge chunks of time missing in them, anyway.
My advice is to stay in No Contact, and get on with your life, which you are already doing.
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Tuesday, 17 November 2009 @ 12:29pm
good grief says:
thanks for the feedback everyone. I certainly am not surprised by the advice given and I know it to be true myself. There is one more strange piece to this bizarre tale that is my life (LOL). I recently saw one of my best friends from where I used to live and we got to talking about all of this a little bit again. He knew her and liked her alot at the time. He proceeds to tell me that against my wishes, because he did ask, he sent her a letter 5 months ago and in a nice way gave her some shit for what she put me through. I had no idea this happened until last week and then I got her letter soon after that. I thought it was a coincidence. Then the strangest thing happened and as I was telling him a few days after I received her letter he tells me that he sent her ANOTHER letter in a drunkun stupor at 3:30 in the morning. I asked him to forward it to me and my jaw hit the floor with what I saw. He destryoed her, it was only a few sentences long but he said some of the nastiest, death wish stuff I’ve ever read. I didn’t even express feeling that way about her when I saw him but he was so fired up about what she did to me still that he felt compelled to say those things. But then the next mornng she writes me and apologizes for everything and wishes me well. How in the world can anyone dissect complexities of this magnitude.
I know I know better than to get back involved with this person again. But it was just the weirdest thing hw I was just doing my thing, minding my own business, and all this kind of blows up in my face again. Life’s strange
It was just weird that he wrote stuf that nasty and then she came back and broke the silence to me after 7 months with a concise, but very apologetic, friendly email but never asking me to respond. If she wanted me to respond, wouldn’t she have said something to that effect? Or is this a tactic to see where I stand with her, if I’ll let her back in? I kind of just chuckle about it now, at how bizarre this has gotten. This is the only place in the world that people can speak from similar experiences, anyone else I talk to about it really doesn’t understand what it was like. Thanks lovefraud. And than you all for getting back to me. I still love you rosa!
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Tuesday, 17 November 2009 @ 12:49pm
good grief says:
and Donna, I look forward to reading that link to that article. I’m sure it’ll hit the nail on the head along with just about everything else around here…thanks
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Tuesday, 17 November 2009 @ 12:58pm
to innocent to know says:
Good Grief, Your story sounds so much like mine and a lot of other people’s on here. I too am new here, but I have been reading these blogs for over a year. The NC is the only way to keep them out. I write in a journal so I will remember how my S treated me. I was engaged to him and became very close to his daughter(who is an S also) and his mom and dad. His own brother does not like him and has to “clean up” so many times his messes with all the past ex’s. I wish I would have met him first, he could have warned me, lol. He would tell me one thing and tell all his friends something else. He is now engaged to a woman who he knew in high school, 4 months after I broke it off with him, again and for the last time. She had a thing for him then and he moved on it very quickly! I guess she’ll have to find out for herself, and hopefully her family will be there for her when she realizes what he is! Take care and hugs
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Tuesday, 17 November 2009 @ 1:27pm
skylar says:
Good Grief,
someone who would do that to you is a narcissist at bare minimum and perhaps even a sociopath. When your friend wrote that scathing letter, it caused a narcissistic injury. They always want revenge after a narcissistic injury. The female narcissist is actually more dangerous than the male. (My ExP is more like a female-P in his tactics) They use subtle manipulations, slander and psychological warfare that goes to your heart and causes permanent damage. They are able to hold back any rage until the hook is placed firmly in your heart, they don’t slip up by coming at you straight forward, it’s a side-long slither through the grass then suddenly they’re nuzzling your neck and all you’ll get is a flash of the fangs before the bite sinks in. Get the picture?
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Tuesday, 17 November 2009 @ 1:41pm
witsend says:
Good Grief,
The important thing to note is that she has the uncanny ability to know EXACTLY how to get back into your head. Even after all this time. That is what they do best.
You might not respond to her, but she has already taken up space in your head. At the end of your email you are already questioning her tactics or if she wants you to respond or……..
Don’t think about it in this way as that is how she created the slippery slope to begin with. Its part of her strategy, to get you thinking about her.
N/C, N/C, N/C….
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Tuesday, 17 November 2009 @ 2:23pm
bopeep says:
God…I love LF…I dont know what I’d do without it! This blog sent me to tears because it is everything I feel and I know what its like to be tossed to the side by the unbelievers…my mom included. So you do find yourself alone…trying to keep some normalcy while raising 4 kids….but we live in a hotel…it is not normal…and the bills keep piling…and you dont know how long you can keep your business going…but it is a reality…he is never gone…he waits in the wing to finish me off…and I sit waiting for the next court ordeal he will do to drain me of my last dime…Its so hard to comprehend such evil..I do find comfort in the luxurious times I can go into denial…but I too SHThead..am planning my future before you the S strikes again…and I WILL WIN…just to spite your souless being. I hope GOD gives you all strength….We need it ..we need each other…thank you all…Slowlt but surely getting stronger..I hope all S’s enjoy the pits of HELL
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Tuesday, 17 November 2009 @ 2:28pm
OxDrover says:
Dear Goodgrief,
I remember when you were here before, and you were obscessing on writing a letter to her for days because she had gone NC with you, telling her in the letter what you thought about her and in the end you admitted you wanted this letter to CONTROL her. You went on about all the things you had DONE for her (I think she was ill if I remember correctly) and how much you had done and how little gratitude she had toward you and how she had gone NC on you.
I am glad that you are going on with your life. The friend writing her a nasty letter and then her “apologizing” to you in another one out of the blue does NOT mean that she has changed or that you should have a relationship with her.
From the long and detailed letters you wrote to her in the past (sent or unsent) and from the details you revealed about the relationship itself in the past, at the very least, whether or not she is a psychopath, she is obviously not a healthy fit for you.
While you may still think about her on a daily basis, the relationship IS and WAS NOT what you wanted it to be, what you wished it to be.
I suggest that you work on yourself, and work on EMOTIONAL NC as well as physical NC with this woman.
Whatever she is, she has not changed. You described the relationship (in your other posts a while back) as being pretty ONE sided, you gave and gave and she took and took, and showed, you thought, no appreciation for all the things you had done for her. She refused to come and join you in another city, after telling you that she intended to.
Many of us can recite a litiny of giving and giving to the other party in our relationships, and receiving little or nothing back in return for our generosity. Giving to others without receiving any reciprocity in return generally makes the giver eventually resentful and angry. Relationships should not be one sided. Even when you are giving to a helpless baby, a smile from the infant in appreciation is repayment, but you represented in the older posts, if I remember correctly ,that your relationship with her was not seemingly reciprocated. You felt like you had been used.
Sometimes we offer help to others who in their desperation or neediness take that offered help, but do not respond in a way that we see as reciprosity. I know that my egg donor offered freely to give me money, but what she wanted in return was control over me. It was not a gift, freely given, but by her “generosity” she wanted control of my life. Is it possible that you offered love and help to this woman, and expected a reciprocation of your love, but she took only your help and did not reciprocate your love?
I am not devaluing your feelings about this relationship, I am sure it was a very painful one for you, but your ADMITTED desire for CONTROL over this woman because she went NC with you after you had done so much for her, makes me think that whatever the relationship was, it was UNhealthy, but not necesszarily psychopathic on either side.
Of course I do not think it is fair or right for someone to take gracious gifts from someone and pretend to love that person to keep the gifts coming. I also do not think it is wise to have a relationship that is one-sided either, in which one person tries to ‘earn” the love of the other.
I hope that you will, Good grief, stay here and read and learn and examine both her, yourself and the relationship and learn from the situation, so that your life will be better. that you can acheive Emotional NC with this woman, take away whatever lesson there was in the situation and live a healthy life and have healthy relationships. The best thing I have learned here at LF is that no one can use or abuse me unless I allow it. I can’t fix them, but I can sure as heck improve myself. God bless you in your search for peace.
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Tuesday, 17 November 2009 @ 3:00pm
JaneSmith says:
I really wish Alicia would check back in here on LF. To me, she was hovering too closely over the abyss, suffering from a tremendous amount of pain without relief.
I do understand being bombarded by suicidal thoughts and images. This was my nightmare for years. And I’m sure it’s hers.
I don’t suffer that constant nightmare any longer and I cannot express in words how awesome, how releasing it is to have a clear mind and spirit devoid of terrible, self harming thoughts.
I want her to know that she shouldn’t give up. That there is light at the end of that dark tunnel if she doesn’t give up on herself and life.
I’m not going to patronize her by offering a list of how tos because she is an unique, special individual with her own personal needs and wants. But I can offer her an attentive ear to listen while she shares her pain.
In many situations, just having a caring person listening without offering advice, is the best form of therapy there is.
Alicia, I will not be hesitant, afraid, overwhelmed, repulsed by anything you want/need to share on this website. Not in the slightest.
Me or one of the other superb LF tribe members will be here to listen and care when you wish to come back.
We are all ears, mind, heart and spirit.
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Tuesday, 17 November 2009 @ 5:00pm
Jessica says:
I came to this site in hope that I might find an answer to what I am going through. I see that many people have faced similar scenarios in their lives and I would like to share my story and see what people think.
Well, I have known this guy for about six years now. I met him at school when I was just beginning college. He was asking about marriage but in the beginning I said to him that I wanted to wait to get married because I thought it was important to finish up school first. I thought that at least if anything happens in the future (divorce etc.) I could at least have something to fall back on and earn a living. I thought that he was fine with this. He never came empty handed. When we went out together he would pay for our meals and he always had a small gift (i.e. flowers, chocolate ) I am a very religious girl and I do not know how I let this happen to me but I will have to admit because I do not want to leave any details out of this story I am a very religious girl believing that you should wait until marriage before becoming involved sexually. I do not know it just felt natural and I allowed myself to become involved that way with him. Not all the way however.
Well, anyhow, about a year into the relationship I started asking when he would come to meet my parents. I was ready to get this in the open. And, he said to me “you cannot do everything.
you will not be able to manage all of the bills.” So, I said “I understand but I will be becoming a nurse and whatever you make we can put two and two together and I think we could make it.” He responded, “you have never had a real job before, you do not know what it is like out there. you cannot manage on your salary alone.” So, I said ok.
This is when he brought in the fact that he had run into financial problems. And, at this time I really had no money to help him. But, he said to me look if you cannot help me it is ok…I just will have to move back to my country and see what I can do. And, I said if you go back then I will never be able to see you again. He said well what else can I do. So, I took out a small loan to help him. Being in love with him I helped him out. I did not want to lose him.
As more time is going on…I am near now to finish school. He mentions that there is a business opportunity that he sees he stands a chance at. So, I said go for it if you believe its a possibility. Well, he asks me to help to pay for the security deposit on an apartment. The apartment was to be close to a mall where the business was to be set up. And too, I helped him with what he said would be for the application fees of setting up the business. Anyhow, he told me “thank you so much for your patience with me….all your help…I am sending all the documents the business is asking for etc etc.” As time goes by I said so how is the business going. And he said to me…”It was more work than I thought it would be so I could not go through with it. Living four hours away the setting up of it was too much.”
So, anyhow I said ok. Things happen. We continue to spend time together. And then, he said to me look regardless of what happened I am willing to move down here by you and work two or three jobs if I have to to make this work. He said I would listen to you if you have any suggestions. I said what about school…the medical field is a good field to get into because you are guaranteed to always have a job. And he said, yeah but that would be like starting all over. I do not have the sciences for it. So, I said well what do you want to do.
He said he had become aware of another business opportunity that he really wanted to pursue. And, when he gets it set up he would be able to go to school at the same time by doing online classes. So, I said go for it. I really helped him a llllooot getting this business started because he showed me the documents involved and because he sounded like he knew a lot about business. He told me about how he used to work for a restaurant and he was in charge of running it etc. He would correct other employees telling them how things should be done the right way. So, I ended up investing a lot into getting him started.
As time is going by he said to me he wanted to get back into school. So, I invested in a semester of school for him. When I would ask about how school was going he told me “school sucks” So, I said “well, how is it going are you at least passing” He said, its just difficult being by himself and having to work and the travel back and forth from where he lives and here.” He said to me after the term ended that he just could not continue with that right now.
He asked me if I remembered about the business he was trying to set up. I said,”yeah ofcourse.” He said well, I am still trying to work on that. And, he asked me for more assistance. So, I helped him some more.
Well, then comes August of this year. I went out with him. We ate together. Then we went walking in the mall. And, I wasnt seeing him mentioning anything about where we were headed as a couple or when he would come to meet my parents. So, I said,” soo whats your plans” Because for months I had been asking him the same thing and he would say to me “dont worry i have plans ; ). He responded at the mall” do not worry you have surprises coming soon.” So, in my mind I said finally ! Well, we are walking in the mall and hes walking over to things and saying “doesnt that look like a nice family gift.” And, I said, “I wouldnt tell you what to bring over when you come.” I felt awkward to ask anyone for a gift.
Well, that day ended. And, I thought ok soon somethings going to happen. He is coming soon to propose.
Well, then I went a period of 3 months exactly without hearing from him at all. And, during that time i was worried sick thinking omg what if hes sick or something happened to him. I called him maybe ten times a day. I even asked his friends online if theyve heard from him. And, the first time i asked they said all they know is that he loves me. To which I said, “how do you know that” And they said he used to talk about you a lot.” Apparently these were his roommates from the beginning of the relationship but he had moved out. They were the only people i knew that knew him.
Well…..finally I get a call from him. He apologized for not being able to get in contact saying its because he was going through family issues. He brought his mom all the way here to meet my family. And, in the flight she got sick ending up in the hospital. So, I said oh no, “can i come down and see her” Then I thought you know what maybe i shouldnt because if I get into an accident on the way there or lost or whatever. So, I said, when shes stable why dont you come down. Its been a while since I have seen you.
Well, when he comes down…I felt like it had been forever. I was so happy to see him and at the same time so anxious to know what our plans were. So, I said sooo when you going to come meet my parents they have been begging me to invite you over. And, his face went blank. He said,” you always bring this up. we have gone over this a million times. i do not even feel like eating right now. i want to go home.” So, I said forget i mentioned it…let us go inside and get something to eat.
While we are eating I said to him “hows your mom” He said she was doing better. And then I said well how does she feel about us. He said well…shes a little skeptical becuase you are of a different race than me. So, that stuck me through the heart. And I said…so how do you feel though. And, he said his feelings had not changed so I felt a little better. I even mentioned you know if you asked me to marry you tomorrow I would put my masters aside bc thats not important to me as getting married and starting my life. And he responded ,”well thats not how it was when you wanted to do your bachelors.” Well, it was time to go. And, he said if i could stay longer and I said no i have to get back home buuuuut if you would like to come home wiht me my parents would be excited to meet you and you could stay whole evenign with us and then go home.
He said , “are you serious ?!” I said, yes. He said “well, i would love to but this is not the right time. i am not even dressed.”
So I said ok. And he then asked me to see me the following day. I said I couldnt buut I could see him the day after that. So, he stayed here in a hotel until i could see him. And, I did.
Well, on that day upon arriving to see him he looked verrrry down and he was looking at his phone. I approached him and said whats wrong ? He said his mom was calling him on the phone asking him where he had been. And because she was sick he felt bad for not going back and making sure shes ok rather than overnighting. So, I said “oh, but do you have to go back right away” He said, no.
Then he said,” you know …the only way i see out of this is to move permanently by you interact wiht family more so that they know me for who i am and then ask for your hand. I am too far away and because they knew already of some of the money that you had lent me i already look bad. So, I said that would be great. I could see you more often. He said , “well would you be willing to help me. I said , “how much he would need.” He told me a large sum. So , I said wow in my mind. And, I said, well you know i work hard for my money. I definitely could not give that to you at one time. Little by little maybe. He said to me think about it.
Well, anyhow….we spend day together. I just could think to ask about things. And, he said i was making my time with him depressing. All I am doing is worrying now when he comes to see me.
Anyhow, parents got involved and asked me to put him on phone the following day after seeing him. They talked to him nicely and said…you know our daughter loves you very much talks about you all the time…when would you be interested in coming to meet us. And, he said he was going through a lot right now and did not know when. So, then they asked for a rough time frame. Anyhow, he said he is not sure exactly.
I felt bad i put him on the spot. He said to me “you deceived me you tricked me. now i do not even know who is calling me, . on and on i couldnt get to talk to him..finally he said call.
So, I said I am very sorry they just wanted to talk to you to invite you over nothing more. And he said next time i lie to him that i should not even think to talk to him anymore. Well, then he said you know if i considered helping him. He thought that that was our plan. I said, I will see what I can do. I began to help him.
He said to me, “if you cannot get it to me all in cash if i had anything valuable then anything woudl help.” “those things can always be replaced. Well, I gave him some of my jewelry. (when i had seen him before those three months he had looked really happy really good and this time he looked like really depressed and stressed) After I gave that then I thought back you know this is really too much from me.
My parents actually got involved and said you know what you should not give him any more help. They didnt know of the recent money he asked for. And i said you know what “I cannot help you anymore. If my parents knew about this this would really make you look bad in front of their eyes” he responded, ” you never listen to what i tell you..you always do what your parents say. you are an adult you do not have to do what they tell you to do.”
All in the middle of this another guy had shown interest. Which I told him about to make it be known to him its all more a reason that he needs to come and meet them. I said I do not have any interests in this other guy. He is the only one i have loved and will only love. And he responded..”i know what youre going to do you will end up marrying that other guy just bc your parents told you to. ” “they do not respect your choice you have made. and the reason they put me on the phone was to judge me within just five minutes that I was no good for you so that you would marry the other guy”
I said this is not true i love you and only you. He said, “its not about that. at this point we both understand that. its about getting there.”
well, then after all of this i am on the phone one day wiht a friend and i get a text “how are you” i couldnt respond right away. in the middle of the call i got about twelve texts, “100, 90,…..etc. like a countdown.” and after the call i said, “i’m ok” even though i was feeling very down. and he said,”is that all i get after worrying about you you respond after an hour and i said i answered you as soon as i could i was on the phone.
the next day he said, “how are you in a text.” and i said im doing alright how are you and he said feeling he was alright. i called him because i wanted to actually talk to him not just text. And we talked normal. well, i was at work and i said you know i gotta go. And, when i am back to work he called me about six times. and i couldnt answer. so, when i got chance to call back, 15 minutes later he wouldnt answer. and i said in a text, i am trying to call you back. and he said, oh excuse, me you did the same thing. so, i said, i’m sorry i had to get back to work.
tried to call him anytime throughout work that i could but he wouldnt answer.
well, anyhow my parents left him a message only saying that he took a lot of advantage on me and if he was man enough he would call back and apologize nothing more and he texted me back saying, “that they left him so many insults..and that the accusations are unfair and offensive.”
And so i responded feeling bad…i said they just never got to know you….and he said then its not fair to judge someone without knowing them first. “he just feels very hurt from the messages and is feeling sad.
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Tuesday, 17 November 2009 @ 5:04pm
Twice Betrayed says:
Good Grief: I can respond to you because I am going thru the same type of situation-only it was me who walked out. This x of mine has remarried [three weeks and he was 'forced' into it. He is already calling me. First call was about taxes and I answered the questions. Second call was an apology with nothing else said. Then he says: "I will talk to you later." I should add he started both calls off with the soft 'hey' of years ago. The first call is business and I had to take it....the second call was business but not really...hence the apology. Nothing else is said because they don't want you to suspect there is ANY motive except sheer remorse. Then they quickly exit to throw you off center while you are waiting for the other shoe to drop....they don't drop it. All part of the con. [ Time will pass and I will get another call etc......till I eventually figure out what the real con is about.]
In your x’s case your friend stuck her face in reality and let her know her con was exposed….so she emailed to ’show she is really a great person’….and for you to tell your friend what she has done…which is apologize. See; they carefully ’set the stage’ for what con they are going to run. Give you something that seems real and then move you closer and closer to what they want….while taking your guard down with each contact by asking for nothing and seeming sincere. As sky said; once the hook is set here they come….but they have to get the hook in first and that is done with seeming sincere, sorry and really a good changed person. Till they get you back hooked then out comes the demon to break you again till either you walk or they hook up with a better sucker. Sad….but this is the way they are and the good fun sweet person you love is only an illusion-smoke and mirrors……*sigh…….
I know….I hate that it is….but we have to face the reality.
*Think of it this way: you have an actor/actress you really like and you see them in a great performance that makes you a fan even more because of the role they are playing…you relate to it. [Then you watch the behind the scenes and that actor/actress is acting arrogant, demanding and treats people like they are less than they are. It taints what you think of them....but think of what you would have thought of them if you only saw them in the role they played.] That’s the P….they play YOUR ideal and MIRROR who you are back to you. They do this to everyone. When they first meet you they are sizing you up-getting your personality typed in the first few minutes…then out comes the mirror. [When someone exposes them they start running 'damage control.]
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Tuesday, 17 November 2009 @ 6:49pm
JaneSmith says:
Jessica,
I read your experience and you’ve been conned. I know that hurts, big time to realize that a person you cared for and loved was only exploiting you. But I’m pretty sure that’s the situation you’re in.
Any male or female, always asking for financial help and giving nothing in return is a con artist, a predator. That dude will drain you dry if you continue to interact with him.
From the conversations you’ve had with him, it’s obvious to me that he is very manipulative with your emotions. Trying to cause guilt and confusion so you will be unbalanced in your decisions and perspective.
I seriously don’t like this fella. I see DANGER signs all over the place. He’s little more than a user, an exploiter and you should make a firm decision to remove him from your life.
Consider what is best for you. What gives you strength, contentment, and happiness. If the dude can’t offer these things then he is a fraud.
I’m sincerely apologetic for telling you the harsh truth. It hurts. But rather the truth, reality than continue in such a harmful involvement with this guy.
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Tuesday, 17 November 2009 @ 7:29pm
2ndpeter2 says:
How do you overcome falling in love with someone that used God to win your heart and then find out it was all a lie? What is real? I know what happened to me was real, but I can’t believe it. I can’t believe that there are really people out there like this? How do I get over the deniel? How do I get over wanting him back even after everthing I allowed him to put me through? I spent all the money I had saved on paying off his bills so we could build a house together and now I have no home. I want to get over him and quit thinking of him. I am devastated.
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Tuesday, 17 November 2009 @ 7:30pm
good grief says:
skylar…wow, that’s some heavy stuff there…are you saying she is trying to get me back in order to mess me up again in an attempt to get back at my friend? It’s weird because he sent that at 5 am her time and she wrote me at noon her time so she didn’t put a tremendous amount of thought nto it unless it was already on her mind and he just triggered it. And I defintiely thought it was interesting and almost manioulative to get so personal with her letter to me by referencing my pets by name, signing it with love, and resolving me of any blame…transparency?
I kinda wonder if it is eating at her that I haven’t responded yet or does she not care? maybe she sees that i’m not available to be manipulated right now and has already moved elsewhere or maybe she plans on trying again. matt, you speak so matter of factly that you must be referencing past experience…
I hear ya witsend, you are absolutely right that she has gotten back into my head, but certainly not like before. I feel like I have SELF control now, and that before I would have responded to her in a second now I am stepping back and looking at the situation with a clearer mind.
the whole time all i wanted was to hear from her, and I thought I never would, and then now that I do, I’m caught off guard and don’t really know how to feel or what to do. It takes a lot of energy to be thinking these thoughts again so, much like her, it is easier to do nothing, hence NC so far. But it’s not my nature to not acknowledge someone who is apologizing for making a mistake ya know? How does one address that morally? I feel like I’m apart of the problem because I’m doing to her exactly what she did to me. She never asked me to respond, but then again people tell me that when I wrote to her the very act of doing it was looking for a response so I guess the same logic would apply. I feel a little relieved in a way, it’s at least nice that my presence on this planet has been acknowledged.
oxy: it’s nice to hear from you again and I agree that she probably hasn’t changed…as to your question about it being possible that she wasn’t reciprocating the love aspect of the relationship. Sure, it is entirely possible, but I didn’t suspect a thing being that she was telling me she loved me literally multiple times everyday and without questioning or provocation she would often discuss her intentions to marry me and such.
It’s nice to be back here and to receive such thought out advice. I can see for myself that there really isn’t anything good that could come out of this. Even if everything somehow worked itself out with the relationship I’d alienate my closest friends and family who want nothing to do with her, and id never be able to trust her again. It’s interesting to be on this side of it now. Before I was desperate to get though to her, and then I backed off and she pops up again like some of you predicted. It’s hard to interpret if she is just trying to clear her conscience or if she wants something from me. Being that I thought they didn’t have a conscience, and that she showed no conscience for so long, I suppose it could be the latter. And until Twice betrayed wrote what she wrote I wan’t sure what it was but now it seems like it could be the latter. Twice betrayed, that was a well put blog post you had. very enlightening. thanks everyone. It’s nice to know that this isn’t running my life right now. It’s almost like now that I got the apology from her, I just want this to be done.
thank you
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Tuesday, 17 November 2009 @ 7:33pm
2ndpeter2 says:
Forgot to say how can someone turn 90% from calling you all day long and then once you let the counselor and Pastor know what is going on, he turned away from me and would no longer have anything to do with me? How does someone do that?
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Tuesday, 17 November 2009 @ 7:36pm
good grief says:
2ndpeter2
it’s cliche, but unfortunately time heals all wounds. and i say unfortunately because it is not a quick fix. you can not get OVER the denial, you have to go THROUGH it. As my friend LTL used to say, it is a process. With getting THROUGH the denial you will get THROUGH the desire to want them back.. That might may flicker for ever, but think about if they came back how ackward it would be and you could never trust him again knowing now what you know. The more you read here the more you will learn and the more you learn the more you would kick yourself upside the head if you ever gave in.
good luck to you, everything will be alright and it all works out in the end. but then I could be a hypocrite cuz I still don’t have it all figured out quite yet and I have to resist the urge myself. its a process alright.
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Tuesday, 17 November 2009 @ 7:37pm
carla says:
Sally I am so sorry for your pain and that you’ve been abandoned by justice. I woke up Sunday morning and sobbed for 3 hours until my eyes were swollen. I once felt God’s loving presence in my life (even through hard times like the illnesses and deaths of my parents at an early age). But I feel nothing from God, not ONE person can imagine what this man has done. They dont’ see the lies, twisted delusions that only serve his needs for status and looking like a fun loving man. My sociopath husband, a doctor, is admired by his friends, family, patients. He creates his own reality. He convinces and captivates everyone around him. I NEVER felt so alone. I cried on my sofa and realized that all my descriptions of his behavior to anyone who would listen just can’t sum up his character/personality disorder. I felt like screaming for help and i know that not ONE person will hear me and my once strong faith, I know that God does not hear me or does not exist. I might as well be in space with my sociopath and the memories of what he has done. ITs not over. I have 3 boys, 2, 7 and 13 year old. He told my son that he lied today, that Daddy never said that. My 7 yr old’s face was perplexed. He thought he heard Daddy say that and now Daddy is convincing him that he didn’t say it. Later he said, “well maybe I just thought he said it.” I had to say bad things about his Dad. This is not a typical divorce. I need to protect my children. Help them label this behavior so it doesn’t become their behavior, so they don’t think they are crazy. I told him “Daddy always told me I didn’t see or hear what I swore I thought he did or said. He always turned it around on me. Darling, you are questioining your judgement because Daddy has convinced you that YOU lied when he lied! Mommy thought she was crazy for 16 yrs. Don’t question your judgement. You know the truth, honey. Who lied? Who Lied? Not you. I love you and I”m sorry this is happening to you but I can help you from falling into the trap.’ So is that “parent alienation?” Am I bad-mouthing my ex. Yes. But I have to save my children. I hate living like this. At times I want to give my kids to him full time so I don’t have to ever see him or see anything that reminds me of him. And so, as you sit your chair devastated and with your soul and self gone from your body wishing you had your children -I am in rage considering giving up my only gifts in my life. But they are half HIM and HE is evil. He has no conscience, no remorse, no empathy. How can you accept? How can Sally accept? She has cancer now BECAUSE of someone who is ruthless. Its okay when someone is ruthless and law enforcement, attorneys, family see it. Its hopeless when the ruthless looks innocent and the victim is made to look like the crazy, unethical one. So it takes a toll on our bodies and even if Sally (or me) accepts the past and lives day to day -the future has been destroyed. I also was told we had tons of money. He encouraged me to spend for him, with him, with the children. He was in debt not “accumulating wealth from a 20 yr old medical practice.” I am divorced. I get alimony. I cannot get remarried, live with someone, I cannot move more than 30 miles away, I can’t sell the only asset I got – the house – because he has a $200,000 home equity loan on it that supported his drugs/penny stock gambling. He hid money but he won’t pay the loan off so I can sell the house. But even if I did, I am in prison -can’t move forward with someone I love or by relocating my residence so I can get away with him. I’m afraid that some of us will never be able to move forward and accept. I wish I could give Sally a hug and tell her that I believe her.
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Tuesday, 17 November 2009 @ 7:43pm
2ndpeter2 says:
Thank you good grief! I am new to this site and have been praying if I should even join. I thought it would be easier to leave it along and it would go away! I have had alot of support but they don’t know what I have been through and why I am having a hard time getting over someone that did me so wrong.
If there are anyother suggestions they are welcomed. Do they ever come back, once they have been found out?
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Tuesday, 17 November 2009 @ 8:11pm
Twice Betrayed says:
good grief, you are so correct…it may be possible the flicker is always there. I know I’ve been married to two P’s and I [now] know the score, the con, the game- to the point that I can ‘name that tune’ when they open their mouths….I am glad to be free ….however, deep inside burns a small ember that still can ignite a feeling of desire and love that I must logically override with the reality of who they really are[=liars, cheaters, users and abusers]. The ever burning hope/wish of what was and what might have been……lost in the ashes of a very good illusionist.
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Tuesday, 17 November 2009 @ 9:50pm
Twice Betrayed says:
2ndpeter2: in response to your question-do they ever come back? Not if you are lucky.
:):)
But…..yes, they do ……when their fan club gets low….it’s all about them.
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Tuesday, 17 November 2009 @ 9:53pm
to innocent to know says:
I think it’s all about the fact that we were giving all our love and thinking they were also giving all their love to us. It’s hard to honestly think they were not. That’s why we hang on for so long, to the lie. If they have a MO or track record of doing it over and over, RED FLAG!!! It’s just that by the time you find out, your hooked.
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Tuesday, 17 November 2009 @ 10:23pm
to innocent to know says:
It is just a game to them, a game to win and you lose.
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Tuesday, 17 November 2009 @ 10:24pm
to innocent to know says:
I found something better to spend my time on, going back to school. It doesn’t ease the pain, just gives me something productive to focus my attention on.
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Tuesday, 17 November 2009 @ 10:26pm
lostingrief says:
twice!
“…The ever burning hope/wish of what was and what might have been……lost in the ashes of a very good illusionist.”
good one.
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Tuesday, 17 November 2009 @ 10:27pm
lostingrief says:
2ndPeter:
do they ever come back?
yes, in your weakest moments!
… and with the most bizarre stories/emails/texts/voicemails.
once you really ‘get’ who and what they are, what they say or want will suddenly seem so pretentious and shallow.
don’t think they will ever change. ever. ever. ever.
they are demons who have a seventh sense of when a potential victim is feeling lonely, or needy, or wanting a hot sex partner, or wanting to believe in love again. They’re scoping out the scene to get the bitch with the most bang for their buck (read: effort — they’ll only use your buck). How gross is that?
Have you ever seen “Dexter?” there’s one scene where he walks into a party … looks around … and declares: “Normal people don’t stand a chance.”
we don’t. stay far away.
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Tuesday, 17 November 2009 @ 10:35pm
Stargazer says:
Good Grief,
I remember you, too. It seems this latest act on her part has got you obsessing all over again the what if’s and why’s. Like Oxy says, you need to make a commitment to let this go. It does not matter why she wrote or what she wants. She up and walked away from you with no explanation. What difference does it make what someone like that wants? My S didn’t show up for a date, with no call and no explanation. That’s all it took for me. I did not wait for him to do the things your ex did, though I’m sure he would have if I’d given him the chance. Sounds like you have been doing so well, and I hate to see you fall in the hole all over again over a letter that was probably frivolous and manipulative on her part. Let’s assume it wasn’t, though. She apologized to you. She did not want to see you again or get back together. Just accept the apology (without responding) and move on. People like this only play games. If you let her back into your life, she will destroy you. My ex was playing these same games toward the end. I wavered for a few weeks over what I should do, but I never contacted him again. It has been a year and a half and I am 100% over him. You can be too, but not if you keep putting more energy into it. Make no mistake; she will destroy you if you give her even an ounce of your energy.
Jessica,
OMG, your guy is a classic con artist. I have had types like this try and con me before, but did not fall for it. They make you feel like you are a bad person if you do not give them money. And they always need more money. I’m so sorry you got used. You should be pretty angry about it, and I hope you don’t have anything to do with him again. These types are very dangerous and know how to play with your emotions to get what they want. Please just walk away before he does any more damage. You sound like such a trusting person. Have you ever seen House of Games? He reminds me of the character in the movie played by Joe Montegne. Great movie, and many people here will recognize the sociopath from their own lives.
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Tuesday, 17 November 2009 @ 10:38pm
Twice Betrayed says:
Oh, lostingrief….you nailed it/them with that last post! *high five
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Tuesday, 17 November 2009 @ 10:53pm
angie says:
Hi Good Grief,
I get 100% what you are say and understand all the questions that are running through your mind, i have been going through the same.
Let me tell you my story, i was engaged to a sociopath and he has been coming in and out of my life for the past three years, i took him back everytime with the promise of change and how much he loved me and he would do anything and give up anything for me. so in turn i took him back over and over again, only to have the same result everytime.
He even went as far as say we would run away and start our lives all over again just me and him against the world only to dissapear again never to be heard from again till the next time. Everytime this happened i had to pick up the pieces and start all over again with the burning question “WHY”.
I am now currently going through this with him again,except this time i have built enough strength and courage to say no and have NC with him, he is trying everything in the book even to the point where he is calling me at work and leaving strange names and numbers in an effort to get me to call him. I still find myself doubting myself and the same burning question “WHY”
He too was the love of my love and i was devestated when he left like he did but i have managed to say no and stand my ground as i know that i need to for my own future happiness and sanity,it is hard but the rewards at the end of this road are far more worth it.
I have found a partner now that cares,respects and loves me. There are not issues of trust or concern for betrayal. I am a much more confident person now and have finally found the strenght inside of me that i never knew was there.
NC works and helps you to think about yourself and what you really want without your own judgement being clouded by the lies.
I am a very soft heart person who believes the better of people, it has been very hard for me to accept that there are people like him out there. That is the biggest thing i had to accept and realise.
Just imagine having control of you and your emotions again,feeling like a whole person. Hang onto that everytime she contacts you and it is hard to do NC but really worth it if you can.
Be strong and have faith in yourself.
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Wednesday, 18 November 2009 @ 3:22am
good grief says:
Thanks or the response Angie…
just out of curiousity, do these guys know they are sociopaths and feed off of that and each other. Like is there a “league of sociopaths”, or an online forum where they share their stories with one another? Or does what they do just come instinctlively to all of them and they lack the knowledge that other people out there exist that are just like them? Has a socipath ever gotten over on another sociopath?
And finally, I’ll ask this. This is probably just the weak, naive, caring side of me that got me into this mess talking, but is it possible that she is actually being sincere? Like she wants nothing to do with me but just wanted to apologize? Is there ever any success stories with reform for these people? ever? I’m just curious…Hope your all having a good day.
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Wednesday, 18 November 2009 @ 12:42pm
Matt says:
good grief:
There is at least one on-line forum where Ss hang out. Which, in a weird way surprises me, since they as a rule do not play well together. Robert Hare says they can form temporary alliances of a sort, when their “skills” are complementary, for example, when a fast-talking conman teams up with a S who enjoys breaking people’s legs. As for whether a sociopath has ever gotten one over on another sociopath, I refer you to the Bernie Madoff scandal where several known N/S/Ps invested with Bernie.
No reforming them. Robert Hare and numerous other experts in psychiatry have concluded that there is no cure for Ss. As a matter in fact, therapy just makes them BETTER at conning and manipulating people.
There is no chance in hell your ex is being sincere. That is magical thinking on your part. The only time they “apologize” is if they want something. I speak from personal experience on that one. Numerous other bloggers on this site will back me up on that statement.
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Wednesday, 18 November 2009 @ 12:55pm
skylar says:
good grief,
the first time I met my P, he walked into my office with a single flower, gave me a complement and walked out.
Everyone else who gave me flowers also asked me out and I would usually say no, because I didn’t know them.
He needed to establish the idea that he wanted nothing from me, so he didn’t ask me out the first time. After that it was one con after another for 25 years.
What I’m trying to say is that they are smart enough to know that the defences must be weakened before they can set their hook and reel you in. You already know who she is. Don’t question her motives. They are called “people of the lie” for a reason.
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Wednesday, 18 November 2009 @ 12:55pm
carla says:
I thought my sociopath was a answer to my prayers and God’s will when he asked me to marry him. My father had just died and my mother was dying of cancer. She died early in our marriage. I felt like it was God’s grace to give me something life-giving. It ended up being life-stealing. Has anyone else lost their belief in God after learning that there could be such exploitive people with no remorse, manipulation, no empathy, no control, and destroy anything in their path for pleasure WITHOUT being criminal (as husbands, fathers, respected professionals)??? I once felt God’s presence.Now not at all. Can I go back? I dont’ pray anymore. Like Sally the legal and counseling profession failed me. I wonder if I will ever believe and have faith again.
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Wednesday, 18 November 2009 @ 1:13pm
OxDrover says:
Dear Carla,
I grew up in a fundamentalist version of Christianity and believed in God but had no true relationship with this “angry, vengeful” god, actually my encounters with all the psychopathis in my family, my egg donor, my P offspring, and one with a P man I dated after my husband died, and actually, I feel closer to God than ever before. It is not the same “vision” of God I had before, but instead a loving father.
The Bible doesn’t promise us a life of smooth sailing, but if we weather the storms, the landing is promised. Looking back through the Bible and reading it with “different eyes” than the filter that my family (primarily my mother) had given to the stories in the Bible4, I was able to see theose same stories in a different light.
“Forgiveness” no longer mean that I had to TRUST those people again, read the story of Joseph–he didn’t trust his brothers until he had TESTEd them to find out what kind of men they had become, but he had “forgiven” them years before he saw them again.
My views on a great many things about the stories told in the Bible changed. I saw that both Jesus and St. Paul talked about us NOT associating with evil people, and especially those within the church itself, to treat them like infidels, like strangers, like heatherns. That sounds like NC to me.
We are told to be as wise as serpents and as gentle as a dove. Being wise to me means realizing what someone’s motive is, or that they are up to something. What good is wisdom if we don’t use it to protect ourselves.
No, Carla, I believe that we get opportunities for lessons that we need to learn, and sometimes those lessons may feel like we are being punished or not cared about by God, but just as our own children may think we are being “mean” when we teach them things, we may perceive God as being “mean” or uncaring to us, but I have not only restored my faith in God but have increased it. I realized that I have depended on myself to “fix” things I should have walked away from if I had “listened” to the wisdom in the Bible.
Just as we are commanded to pray for those that persecute us. I obeyed that but I did not mean a single word of those prayers for my egg donor or my son who tried to kill me. By making myself say those words though, it helped me to truly get the bitterness out of my heart and to really forgive them, but trust them? Not on your life! I know what they are, and what they will do. Their hearts are hard and evil and I can see the evil fruit that falls around their feet. If the fruit is evil, so is the tree.
God bless you, Carla. ((((Hugs)))))
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Wednesday, 18 November 2009 @ 1:55pm
Twice Betrayed says:
good grief; I too would LOVE to believe my x’s apologies [both of them] but I ain’t buying. The answer to your question is NO they are not sincere. The ONLY time you will get a glimpse of the real them is when the curtain is pulled down….and the wizard is revealed cranking that machine that produces the noise, smoke and mirrors in the land of Oz. They know they are not sincere but they also buy into their own cons. Most cons can be conned and strangely it’s usually by their own type of cons. Their world is their own revolving around themselves and their images. The only time they appear to ‘come clean’ is when it is to their advantage. They like to have a normal person they can rely on so they can ’see’ how they are appearing to the world as they really cannot grasp this since they are so deceiving and deceived. Your friend pointed this type of behavior out to your x….she ’saw’ she looked badly….she apologized to keep her image ‘clean’ and then pats herself on the back for being ’such a good little girl.’ *pat pat. This leaves the door open to you should she ever need to return for something. Leaving with no warning etc left you startled, off balance, wondering, and obsessing over her possible return….just what she wanted. She must apologize to keep the door always open….they never discard those they can still use. Think of it like a charm bracelet….you are now on there….a charm…not her favorite at the moment but nevertheless….a valuable charm she will never discard …..unless you should ‘fall off and be lost forever’ [you should wise up and walk].
or….she is a pop star and you are her manager or roadie…….your job is to attend her every want, desire and need….and then get the hell off the stage…IT’S SHOWTIME!
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Wednesday, 18 November 2009 @ 2:40pm
Twice Betrayed says:
Oxy: excellent post.!! Ditto for my life.
*many times God tests our responses to a situation before answering our prayers. Also: it’s our fallen nature to only learn by experience hence many times God walks us THRU the fire instead of around it.=so we learn to trust Him and not ourselves. And most of the time….it’s failure to listen, obey and respond correctly to God’s Word. We build too close to the water and then wonder why the waves grow fierce and wash us away…….
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Wednesday, 18 November 2009 @ 2:53pm
Twice Betrayed says:
good grief: oh yeah, any success stories on these people…[.hmmmmm....is Elvis really working at 7-11????]
That’s the lie the silver tongued beast always cons us with…..I AM THE EXCEPTION!
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Wednesday, 18 November 2009 @ 3:27pm
banana says:
Alicia,
Keep calling the police. My attorney told me that, while they can’t always do something because no one things causes alarm they may get so tired of you that they finally do something with him just to quiet you. This happened to a client of hers in the past. The police said, “look we were getting so many calles, we had to do something.”
Also, I don’t know how you do it with 2 Ps living down the street. You sound like you are handling it very well.
I am proud of you!
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Wednesday, 18 November 2009 @ 7:47pm
banana says:
Also,
Keep your faith in GOD. he IS here.
i know he is. call upon him. he will help you!
I too have had my low time when I knew I will never kill myself because I will not go to heaven. Also, my son would be stuck with his P father. Suicide is the most selfish act. it is only for yourself and not thinking of others.
Please stay strong. Strength will raise as we wait upon the lord!!!
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Wednesday, 18 November 2009 @ 8:32pm
Lily says:
I’m actually the “Sally” of this article but I was having login problem so I had to change my name to get a new password & so now I’m Lily. I hope that’s not too confusing.
ALL of your comments meant so much to me. I’ve read them over and over.
I’m going to try to live just for the hour. I’m trying to deal with this horror by writing. Just thank you so much for listening.
It’s almost the 1 yr. anniversary of when I tried to commit suicide. He had already isolated me from my children and friends. He wanted me to make him my power of attorney. He’s already taken most of my few assets. In my mind, and at that time, I truly believed if I were dead he’s have to leave my family alone and they could still benefit from what I had left. He found me the next morning – he was so angry at what I’d done that he kicked me in the hip and damaged the bursa sack. I was in the psyc. ward for 6 days. During that time he stole all my bank records, he discovered where my social security disability check was automatically deposited.
In a total fog I had to deal with this when I left the hospital 12/10 and discovered what had happened. Not to mention the anger and judgements of my grown children.
Two days before last Christmas I was diagnosed with breast cancer and had surgery in January. All is good – stage 1 – no lumph nodes involved. No chemo – just radiation. All during this time I was working on the banking and social security issues, getting a protective order, finding an attorney. My children had turned their backs on me which hurt more than I could ever express. To them, what I’d done was selfish and embarressing to them.
I’ve done everything I could think of to expose this horrible “person”. ATF/FBI/OSBI/Veterans Administration and many more have been brought in to this mess.
All my money has gone to lawyers. I live on social security disability and now my dear sister is picking up the tab of $210 per hr.
I could go on and on. It feels so awesome to get this off my back. Thank you for reading and understanding.
Here’s a good one. He’s sueing me for $10,000 for his pain and suffering!
I pray for the day when I can help you. You’ve made me understand there will be light at the end of the tunnel.
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Wednesday, 18 November 2009 @ 8:50pm
geminigirl says:
Donna, Oxy, This lady is NOT our New Lily is she?I sent her a card today, and asked that it be re-directed if she was still in the convalescent home. Love, Gem.
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Thursday, 19 November 2009 @ 12:14am
angie says:
Hi Good Grief,
From one naive,caring, soft heart to another believe me whan i say she does want something from you and she is not being sincere.
Please don’t make the same mistakes i have made in the past and put yourself through that heart ache and devastation all over again.
Just be strong and stand your ground,it is all worth is in the end. Trust me the more you read on sociopaths and with the help from everyone here at LF you will see the questions will get less,there will be no more need to find out why because the answers are all here.
There is no use in asking her or giving here the benefit of the doubt as all you will get in return is more heart ache and lies.
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Thursday, 19 November 2009 @ 2:59am
pollyannanomore says:
Wonderful post Donna – thankyou – needed to read this today. Today is hard. Today is tough – today I almost smoked after 63 days of successful cold turkey. To those quitting – please go to this site and get some support in the way of videos … really helped me out
http://www.whyquit.com
and please be gentle with yourselves – we have all been through so much with these horrid relationships.
To Sally- I am so sorry for what you have gone through – blessings that your treatment seems a success – but what a journey through stress and extreme situations. We cannot heal your pain or give you back the time you lost, but we stand in understanding of your pain with you.
I was listening to a radio show the other night that said a major component of adult self esteem is when people trust in their own experience (which actually is the only experience we can ever truly know). The way adults GET this trust in their own experience is by having their experience VALIDATED in early childhood and throughout life. People who experience validation (who are LISTENED to and AFFIRMED for their perceptions) grow up trusting their own experience of life and therefore don’t grow up as people pleasers – depending on the responses of others to make their decisions about their own life. They understand that the only way to live life is through your own valid experience – what you want and don’t want, what feels good and what doesn’t, what they will accept and won’t accept.
I realise as so many others here I didn’t get that validation through childhood so grew up looking for signs in others as to what I should do rather than determining a life by my own rules. A difficult aspect of life after a socio / psychopath relationship is that it evokes the original wound of being hurt, abandoned and controlled through childhood by both parents. My father left when I was three and my mother had carte blanche with no witnesses, no family nearby and no mediators to step in on my behalf. She wasn’t cruel all the time, but I did experience emotional incest and poor atmospheres at home growing up. I felt guilty for my very existence. I see clearly the link that while the marriage wasn’t comfortable or healthy, the atmosphere and abuse were FAMILAR. So I can no longer tuck away the conditions that lead me to select this man and stay so long in such dreadful abuse.
To all new people and those who are stuggling today – I am sorry for all you suffered. I believe your story – the threads are so common here – money problems, lies, betrayal, distance, idealisation followed by devaluing. I hope posting here and reading brings you the comfort it does me as I go through the osychological states that are left in his wale. I hope it all moves you toward healing.
You may feel alone in your country where you are … but YOU ARE NOT ALONE. You have friends all around the world who understand what you are going through, care for your life, believe your story, and want only the best for you after this horrible experience.
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Thursday, 19 November 2009 @ 7:27am
OxDrover says:
Dear Sally/Lily,
I’m glad that you are here, and glad that you are healing! The psychopath knows no shame! Suing you! Yea, right!
I’m glad that you are here this is a very comforting place, and there is a great deal of knowledge and wisdom here in the articles. I suggest as you have time that you go through the archives and read every article. Knowledge is power adn there is a great deal of strength and power in those articles if we just take them to heart!
There are wonderful bloggers here as well, who will validate your feelings which helps. In the end, we must validate our own feelings but while we are working on that it is good to know that there ar epeople who do understand the devestation of dealing with a psychopath. God bless and welcome!
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Thursday, 19 November 2009 @ 8:06am
Cat says:
Dear Lily,
You already have helped many on here, including myself. Telling your story on here was a wonderful reminder of just how far a Path will go in order to get what they want. I’m not surprised he is suing you. That’s exactly the kind of thing they do, changing the whole story around to make themselves the victim. I too have children who are not speaking to me over my ex P. I can only trust and believe that God will help them see the whole picture. I have only been on LF for a short while and the help, knowledge and support I have received here is invaluable. I am slowly working my way through the articles on here. It’s a wonderful place with wonderful people who really understand.
Sending hugs and prayers,
Cat
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Thursday, 19 November 2009 @ 11:32am
Twice Betrayed says:
The thing of it is; we want them to be sincere, remorseful and changed. And when we give them another chance [chance after chance] they appear changed long enough to get us in deep again and then bingo……the mask drops and here is the phantom keeping us in the dark…..”All I Want is Freedom” ……we start singing again. We are the ones that keep going back for more-buying the lies- moving on our emotions rather than our logic. I know it’s a war between what we feel and what we know….and emotions are strong and we usually yield to them. But, our survival depends on our logic winning because the emotions we are feeling are being manipulated by these insincere p’s=our emotions are real..but their’s are not. Just a hard cold fact. Ugly as it is….*sigh
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Thursday, 19 November 2009 @ 12:50pm
jofary says:
Carla,
Like you, I have three children (4, 6 and 11). Yes, I believed in God. In fact, I named my daughter (the middle child) “Faith” because despite all the hardship I’d gone through before with my first S hubby, and growing up with a N/S mother, I STILL had faith! Faith was my mantra. It was what kept me going.
But my second ex was even worse than the first. He used the Church to con me, to project my values back to me to get me to believe we were “best friends and soulmates.” He pretended he was a vegetarian because I was. He spoke about “integrity” being the most important characteristic to him because that was what was important to me. He claimed to have been abused by his former wife, too. He appeared to be loving, caring and gentle, both to myself and my young child from my first marriage.
Two years later, my life was well on its way to complete destruction. Jeckyll turned into Hyde.
The aftermath of his “breakup” with me included taking my home (gotten with MY credit and funds), sexually abusing our daughter who was 2 at the time, joining forces with my first ex to convince the court that I was a bitter, angry ex-wife (of course) and eliciting such a terrible smear campaign that it was impossible for me to stay in the same town. That’s only scratching the surface.
In order to survive and, more importantly, protect my daughter (since the “justice” system failed abysmally on that account), I had to spend almost $100K – all of it loans – so I could move 300km away and reduce his access as much as possible. I’m facing bankruptcy, it is unlikely I will ever own another home again, and I’m not young enough to save enough to retire. I will probably have to work until the day I drop dead. Far from the health nut I was before, I am now a drinker and smoker, deliberately, because I simply do not want to live longer than I have to. My future is bleak indeed, even with a best-case scenario of getting a fantastic paying job, which hasn’t happened yet. I don’t want to die homeless under a bridge but that is a very realistic possibility now.
And where is God? I prayed about this man, asking God for guidance. There was nothing and I listened hard, believe me. Not only did this man turn out to be a bona fide loser, but he is the epitome of EVIL. Worse, I’ve made him an even BETTER sociopath by fighting him as hard as I have for my daughter’s sake. He’s in a higher socio-economic class now (thanks entirely to me) and is now able to woo wealthier folk. I’ve given him legitimacy. I, however, am one very small cheque away from permanent homelessness.
If my daughter hadn’t been abused, and wasn’t still at risk of being abused, things would be so much different for me. I could have dealt with this normally. But the abuse changed everything about me after I found out. The person I used to be is gone forever. I live in constant fear. I don’t know how to forgive and move on because I have to continue to send her to her abuser. It has never been resolved. She’s still at risk. If he does it again, I honestly don’t know how I’ll react. It will probably be violently, quite honestly. Molestation is the gift that keeps on giving, too: any grandchildren she or her younger brother have will be at risk with him.
The burden of this is too heavy to carry. My soul is damaged beyond repair. There is no pleasure in much of anything anymore. I don’t know anybody, not on any forum that I’ve found, not even here, that can relate or give me advice on how to “move on” when I still have to send my daughter to that THING masquerading as a human being, knowing she could be raped again. And I know in my heart of hearts that she WILL be if that THING can convince her to keep it a secret next time. He’s working on it even now – “don’t tell anybody; Daddy will go to jail; you’ll never see Daddy again; Mommy doesn’t want you to see Daddy ever again.” It doesn’t matter to the authorities. He’s convinced them I’m “falsely accusing.” Besides, it’s our daughter’s word against his. We lose and, as usual, he wins.
God seems to be asleep at the wheel as far as protecting the vulnerable is concerned. So, me and God aren’t on speaking terms. I don’t pray anymore and guess what? It doesn’t make a difference anyway to how things turn out. I’ve lost Faith.
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Thursday, 19 November 2009 @ 4:13pm
jofary says:
Gack! I just reread my post and am stunned by how negative I sound. And this is an ordinary day! Sorry to be such a major downer, everybody. Looks like I need a big change in attitude.
Not sure how to go about it, though…
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Thursday, 19 November 2009 @ 7:51pm
witsend says:
jofary,
You have every reason to be feeling between a rock and a hard place.
Don’t be so hard on yourself. Nothing is harder than having to accept that damage is being done to one of your children and you have no control to STOP it.
I can understand that you have no money to fight this in the court systems any further. But I am wondering if there isn’t another option such as Social Services that can provide you with an advocate for your child? I would try calling every agency in the phone book and see if you might not come up with something. Even try google searches.
I know this is a long hard road for you. And I have not had luck with agencies in the past in my situation either. However I would leave no rock unturned if I were you. If they say they “can’t” help you ask them for a number of someone who can.
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Thursday, 19 November 2009 @ 8:04pm
OxDrover says:
Dear Jofray,
I am so sorry to hear your stories, it brings tears to my heart. I know you may “sound” bitter and frustrated and angry, but you have every right to feel that way.
I cannot even imagine how you must feel with the continuing problems of letting her abuser see your child.
Please start to take care of YOURSELF though, and stop the unhealthy behaviors as a “slow suicide”—it’s not a good way to go.
I wish I could tell you how to regain your faith. God (as I see it) does’t promise us a “rosey” life here on earth, but to be there to comfort us, to guide us. I don’t think He is going to “part the red sea” to strike our Ps with lightening, but I do think that we must realize that He says in scripture “ALL things work together for GOOD to those that love the Lord.”
I have have “bad” things and disappointing things happen to me, but later down the line, if I had not had that “bad” thing happen, a blessing would not have happened later.
God warned David to hide in the caves from King saul by having Jonathan warn David. God COULD I think have kept Saul from killing david and david wouldn’t have had to hide, but I think there was a LESSON for David in those caves. I don’t know what it was, but I think it was there.
David was very “human” and made lots of bad decisions, he committed adultery, murder and other sins, but the Bible says “he was a man after God’s own heart” WHY? I think because when David was confronted about his sins, he ADMITTED THEM, QUIT THEM and tried to do better, he genuinely REPENTED. He tried to follow God, but he did bad things, too. I think this is an exammple for us to see that no matter what we have done, that if we truly repent and TRUST in God that we will be able to trust in His word that it will all worth together for GOOD.
I didn’t see the “good” in my son’s crimes, and I depended on myself to “fix” those things (my son has his own free will) and I can’t fix others, it was arrogant for me to think I could. I should have “let go, and let God” but I didn’t. I had a lesson to learn. The fleeing for my life was to let me know, I think that my life doesn’t depend on what I have or where I live, but on God and on me.
Believe it or not, I found some humility there in that RV on the lake—and I realized I can do nothing without God, and with God I can do everything. I hope you don’t think I am preaching to you, because I don’t intend to do that, but to share with you the COMFORT I found in my faith, and that I think you had in yours prior to all of this. God bless you, and You will be in my prayers (((((Hugs))))
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Friday, 20 November 2009 @ 12:56am
skylar says:
Jofray, I’m so sorry for your trials.
I will share my thoughts and experience in hopes that it might inspire you somehow.
I don’t have children with the xP thank God, so my trials are less in that respect. But I found it very empowering to learn as much as I can about sociopathy and read, read, read, every book I can find. I go to websites and meet people in my travels and we talk about it. I even go to his friends and family for information about what is happening and why. Everyone has a different piece of the puzzle.
Once the “profile” of your xP begins to crystalize in your mind, once you really start to understand what motivates him and how he thinks, life gets much easier. The fear goes away.
His mind will become as familiar to you as your own (not pleasant, but necessary) The only thing left to do is learn more about yourself. The encounter with a sociopath tends to reveal yourself to you. Suddenly so many things from the past become clear.
I guess what I’m trying to say is that you can learn and grow from this suffering. It’s all we can do because we can’t go backward, only forward.
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Friday, 20 November 2009 @ 2:56am
Lily says:
So many of your stories have validated me…so many have broken my heart…many have enraged me because of the power the P has. They can be sooo charming when around others to the point that friends and family won’t believe you. After all, he’s really a great and charming guy…and what an interesting background he has! Even when provided with evidence that his interesting background is all a lie…people just don’t get it and can’t believe it. There’s something wrong with me!
Jofray…please keep fighting. Contact anyone and everyone in authority – preserve evidence. I too know, that justice has nothing to do with truth, I never knew that before – I believed justice was all about truth.
I’m sleeping 12 hrs. aday now and even that’s not enough to help my weariness. I just watch the clock until I can sleep again. I have not talked to one human today. No one calls me anymore. My friends have backed away and my family is not available unless I can be positive and cheerful with wonderful dreams of the future. It’s easier to talk to my dogs and my kitten…they listen intently and never disapprove of me or my feelings.
How did this ever happen to me? To you? Why are we targets for these paths? I believe as pollyanna no more said…it all starts with our childhood. I was the youngest and a total surprise when my mother gave birth to me at age 46.
I was an inconvenience. I was the ‘out of sight out of mind’ child. Yet as young as I was I always brought home the ‘broken’ things. A stray dog, a ferral cat, a bird with a broken wing even children from school who were being bullied. I never understood why my mother wouldn’t let me take care of these beings or while I slept they all ‘ran away’.
I don’t know if God is with me or against me – frankly, I am too tired to think about faith.
Wow, I could write forever – one thought leads to another. I do have a dream though…I’ll share it with you on one of my next posts. Because of your help and your words I do believe this dream can come true. Love to all of you.
Lily/Sally
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Sunday, 22 November 2009 @ 6:20pm
OxDrover says:
Dear Lily,
Taking care of YOU right now is all you need to think about! I know it would help if your “support network”—or what SHOULD BE your SUPPORT were there for you, but you are NOT alone, you have support right here! Stay with us! WE DO GET IT! WE do KNOW. WE do CARE!
Lily, when I told my bizzare story to my new therapist, he was so unsure that such a thing could be true I had to bring in witnesses and documentation to prove I wasn’t a paranoid nut case! LOL I can laugh at it now, but I understand why he wouldn’t believe such a wild arse story! It sounded like the plot to a BAD MOVIE! Sugar, you are NOT alone in this crazy state, there are many of us who have been there. Teh sheriff did believe me but because the man had not committed a crime YET his hands were tied.
Focus on YOU. Don’t focus on what you have lost (that you had or thought you had) Focus on what you have—your dog and your cat—that is more than some people have. Focus on the POSITVE —anything positive—and give thanks for that ONE positive thing in your life. DIG yourself out of the depression, and if you are not on medication, see if you can be evaluated for antidepressant medication and/or some more therapy–surely if I can find a therapist that will believe my story (even with proof) you can too! Don’t give up on that!
Sometimes when we get in the downward spiral of depression and the abyss of pain and loss it is difficult to get out by ourselves because of the chemical changes in our brains, plus, I know my mind itself wasn’t functioning right! Find some help some where, some way….and above all, STAY HERE and read and post. (((hugs)))) and you are in my prayers, and I DO have faith! So right now you don’t have to be able to pray, there is at least one old biddy praying her heart out for you!!!!
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Sunday, 22 November 2009 @ 11:48pm
Outlier says:
Hmm, they ARE parasytic aren’t they?
My sister separated from her husband September 2007. He still persists in sending letters that she is mentally ill and that he loves her and wants her back. Deliberately posted from my S sibling’s city; he lives 600 miles away). He always posts from S sister’s city to say : Hey look, I am really good friends with your other enemy, do we scare you, my love?” Imagine your sibling (her husband and the rest of the family) supports your ex 100% and offers nothing to you in the way of concern for your wellbeing.
Certainly confirmed my 20 year rule to never allow siblings to ever hear/meet of my relationships and private life (they have voiced/joked I’m a virgin/lesbian who never had a bf/sex at 38, bless). My privacy is my scared temple.
My sister has spent lots of time in Europe, India, the States seeking a new life, which seriously bugs her ex. She’s moved on, he will forever haunt and track her with S sister standing right behind him. They invest a lot of energy they do. She may do really well in the States as there is a seriously good network of relatives there who are safe and secure to be around. Shame she needs to pack her bags, but she can find ten times better elsewhere.
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Wednesday, 25 November 2009 @ 9:56am
Outlier says:
skylar wrote: Friday, 20 November 2009 @ 2:56am
Once the “profile” of your xP begins to crystalize in your mind, once you really start to understand what motivates him and how he thinks, life gets much easier. The fear goes away.
His mind will become as familiar to you as your own (not pleasant, but necessary) The only thing left to do is learn more about yourself. The encounter with a sociopath tends to reveal yourself to you. Suddenly so many things from the past become clear.
I guess what I’m trying to say is that you can learn and grow from this suffering.
Spot on. From experience.
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Wednesday, 25 November 2009 @ 10:01am
skylar says:
Thanks Outlier,
Funny, mine says I’m bi-polar, schizophrenic too. But when I ask him to explain, he doesn’t really know what the terms mean, so I have to explain it to him. Also, my P-sister and trojan BIL loved to stalk me, until I went NC with them. It is necessary because my P-parents still have relationship with them. The P-parents know the BIL will eventually try to kill the P-sister and they just can’t let her go and there is no way to warn her without tipping our hand to the BIL. Oh Well!
Sometimes it’s difficult for me to remember that not everyone is in the same place that I am. Many n-supplies can’t even fathom the idea of even checking their P’s facebook pages without being triggered. But for me, it’s all just more data/information to add to my repertoire of knowledge regarding sociopaths. I’ve come to see the xP as a puzzle that you work on once in a while, when you have time and inclination. I don’t see him as a person, because he’s not. Real people have feelings for others and don’t lie with every other word. No matter how “real” his words sound, I know they are only as real as an academy award winning actor on the silver screen, reciting his lines. And he’s not even that good at it.
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Wednesday, 25 November 2009 @ 12:49pm
teacher123 says:
Jofary,
I am going to urge you to not lose faith, and I know you are going to say that is easy for you to say. That maybe true, but we all do go through troubles. I have had 2 people close to me that I loved very much take their own lives because they couldn’t see a way out of their present troubles. In both cases, I believe if they would have held on a little longer their situations would have gotten better. The Bible says that if you faint in the day of your adversity your strength is small. This was written by Solomon who was well acquainted with the struggles David his father went through like Oxy documented before. And he did come out of all of his troubles by remaining strong in his faith. I mentioned this before, but a very good book that has helped me is called “What to do on the Worst Day of Your Life”. Here is the synopsis from Barnes and Noble.
Synopsis
No one wants trouble to come. But when it does (and it always does), you can recover . . . you can prevail.
What do you do on the worst day of your life?
Pastor Brian Zahnd turned to the Bible for answers and discovered in the life of King David an inspiring story of hope and a pattern for full recovery. In What to Do on the Worst Day of Your Life, he reveals the steps you must take to recover-and to recover all.
“My wife and I have read and reread every word in this book. It was like God’s voice to us in one of the toughest seasons in our lives. Don’t stop because it’s dark. Read this book, and follow the proven steps of a man who lost everything but lived to recover it all.”
-Jentezen Franklin, New York Times best-selling author of Fasting.
Biography
Brian Zahnd is the founder and senior pastor of Word of Life Church, a congregation in St. Joseph, Missouri. He and his wife, Peri, have three sons.
Miracles happen sometimes suddenly: sometimes healing is a long process, but don’t lose your faith. There are a lot of people on this website who will support you. I am afraid to say that I am a part time poster, but I chime in when I feel the need to. I am going to believe that things will get better for you. If you read the book of Job you will have a hard time believing that he recovered from all he went through, but the end of the story is that he made a full recovery because he didn’t curse God or blame himself when everyone around him urged him to do so. It sounds like you are very strong to have had the faith to continue despite your circumstances, why not see it through to the part when you come out on top?
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Thursday, 26 November 2009 @ 12:02am
Lily says:
Oh OxDover…thank you for your encouragement. Like you, no one believed me except for one of his previous victims. To even convince an attorney I had to take in threads from forums he’s posted on. People who don’t know say I’m obsessed. And yes, I am obsessed – right now this is the focal point in my life – am I going to die at his hand as threatened? I am hypervigilant – my doors have bars on them & all windows are locked. I allowed myself to sit out on the front porch with my dogs last week. A truck slowly drove by and the driver yelled out the window…”he’s going to kill you”. Then sped off. I don’t call the police anymore. To them it’s all he said – she said. I have a code word with my family and therapist to alert them I’m in danger.
I don’t know why I’m rambling on. Maybe because I can? And no one’s going to put me down? My therapist does believe me, what a blessing! My sister told me to write a book…I told her no one would read it because it’s too unbelievable to be true.
Thank you to everyone for your support and for your understanding. Lots of love and blessings. Lily
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Monday, 30 November 2009 @ 8:08pm
OxDrover says:
Dear LIly,
There is no way for me to tell you if this guy is just f-#-ing with your mind or if he means it. I have no doubt that my P-son means it as he is NOT threatening, just DOING—
But you know, in either case, the worst he can do to me is to keep me TERRIFIED—that is worse than killing me as far as I am concerned.
If the guy is going to kill you,, he wil lfind a way to do it, and that’s the truth, but in the mean time, LIVE YOUR LIFE, sit on your porch. If you can’t live terror free where you are, MOVE–whatever it takes it is worth it to live terror free.
When I realized I couldn’t protect my house 24/7 like a fort, I left all that was prescous to me and hit the trail. Lived in a recreational vehicle 5th wheel trailer. At least I was SAFE and by being safe I could heal.
Due to the arrest of my X-DIL and the Trojan horse P my son sent, I am safe frm THEM, but I know my son will do all he can to send another one, but in the meantime, I am going to LIVE. Be cautious, sure, but my precautions are not what makes my life good, it is my ATTITUDE, my putting aside the fear!
It wasn’t easy for me, and I am betting it won’t be for you, but you CAN do it. What have you got to lose at this point? All I can see is your fear! doon’t let him kill you by degrees! (((hugs))) my prayers and God bless you!
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Monday, 30 November 2009 @ 9:00pm
Lily says:
I love all of you. I respect your advise and counsel. I am going to move as soon as possible but can’t now as he’s suing me and there is a possibility there will be a judgement.
It was last December 3, 2008, I tried to kill myself. That’s 2 days from today. I am having such a difficult & emotional time right now. I was told it’s an anniversary time for me & I believe it.
Please keep me in your thoughts and prayers, altho I admit I’m having a hard time with prayers right now.
I can’t seem to stop crying. Love Lily
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Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 9:27pm
henry says:
Lily – My sister took her life. She lived a tormented life. At the time there was nothing I could do too help her. I wish I knew then what I know now. And maybe I could of helped her, we could of helped each other. She loved xmas, I think because it was a fantasy time. Please take care of your self…death is so final and leaves so much pain for so many, her suicide is something I will never recover from. I think we will all die before we are ready to go, so I am going to find peace with myself and wait it out as long as I can. And I hope you will do the same…hang in there – now that you know – things Will get better…
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Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 9:51pm
geminigirl says:
Dearest Lily,Weve all been there, darling girl. When I left my ex after he beat me unconscious, it took me a couple of years to summon up the balls to leave him. I had no money, but everything came to me, money, work, a flat, a lovely new husband. I was scared shitless, and had wall to wall guilt re leaving my teenage girls with him.{he had never touched them.} But it did get better. I had to save my OWN LIFE!! you WILl get there darling,take it one day at a time. Rest plenty, eat well, dont try to do too much.All this is EXHAUSTING! Ask God for help, -he/she really DOES help, but you have to ASK Him?her for it, or His/her hands are tied! Make a list of what you want,{I did, starting with some food in my empty fridge,}
I discovered if you have a full fridge you WONT get help, but if you are really hungry and ask God, He will help you! Just believe! He said, Even if you have faith smller than a grain of mustard seed, you will overcome!! TOWANDA!! If you kill yourself, guess what? The spath has won.There is only one way to go and thats UP!! with love and {{HUGS!!}} gem.XX
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Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 9:59pm
geminigirl says:
Ps Lily, Tears are good, they are washing away all the shit, crap, bad memories, let them flow!! Love, Gem.XX
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Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 10:00pm
witsend says:
Dear Lily,
Please hang in there….. I wish you the strength to come through this hard time.
Like Henry, I have been affected by the suicide of a loved one as well. (my husband) It changes your life. I will never be the same person I was before this happened. It is difficult to see that someone can be so tortured in their lives, to end it in this way. And you forever wish that there was something that you might have done (to help) if you had only known.
You are SPECIAL Lily….And if you give yourself time you will be able to heal from this toxic person in your life. Your animals need you (they KNOW your special) and you need them. The BEST thing about dogs is they love unconditionally.
You mentioned a sister…..Call her if you need to…Explain to her about the anniversary date and talk to her. If you don’t want to talk to her talk to your therapist about it. Please just talk to someone if you feel you need to do this.
Please let us know how you are doing…..We had another poster here that we were all so fond of and her name was lily also. She had an operation and we haven’t been able to talk to her for awile, so please do let us know that you are ok.
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Tuesday, 1 December 2009 @ 11:01pm
one_step_at_a_time says:
it’s been a long and hard 2 days. I haven’t slept. Too much smoke and off gassing in my apt, and it is terrbily cold out with the my windows open – which they still are.
this year has been a hard journey – and it continues to spiral downwards.
I think I may sleep tonight – am going to stya upright till th benedryl knocks me out.
my housing. sigh. just got a letter from the borderline landlord in response to my letter of complaint about the smoke in my apt. where i live htere is NO protective legistlation for people who have health problems related to tobacco smoke. I moved, and it was A MIGHTY effort, in July. I have had to …blah blah blah – basically, I have to move again and mt landlord is a fucktard.
when i read his letter I want to mess with him. i never used to be LIKE THIS. I WAS A NICE GIRL! I have learned A TON from my spath and feel like being all spathy with the borderline landlord.
Has anyone else experienced this after/ during the spath? Wanting to use their waepons? I feel quite powerless – am without resources to move and am terribly frightened and having BIG panic around this ( the feeling seems to be one that comes up when i start to think of the spath also.)
i am pushed up against the wall…and want to use ANYTHING i can.
to update: the spath i outed on the website (who may be a sockpuppet of my spath) is getting NO END of grief from the folks he choose to condescend to. A few of them SAW him RIGHT AWAY! YAAAY!
my life really sucks. worst ever. i was walking home tonight and saw a guy panhandling and he was sitting with a blanket over his shoulders, hunched forward, a young guy, with the body language of someone in despair. I don’t know his story, but i htought about how many inches i am from the street right now, and my heart just jerked, and i knew that those walking past him did not think about his state of mind at all – we tend to shield ourselves from that. I gave him what I had, and it wasn’t much, he’s going to get that many times over to buy a coffee in this town.
there is such an exhaustion in not having a safe and secure place to be. i can forget about it for bits of time, but the moment i start to walk someowhere, it floods in. At least the anxiety of **** (the character of my spath, who i lived/ loved) is gone.
each day what happened with this woman, hits me in a new and sometimes bizarre way. someone today asked me why bother doing all the sleuthing and getting involved with another dupee who IS suing her. this guy is a cognitive therapist who is trying to help me get my anx. levels down. Dude, buy me some shoes or help me get a new place to live and you will GREATLY REDUCE my anxiety level!
…anyway, he keeps asking, ‘why bother?’ this is hard to answer as i immediately go in to guilt, but tonight i want to look at it. i think it is how i am letting go – making the con REAL, cause if i don’t there would be days when I would get sucked into thinking what she is trying to get me to beleive, that ‘he’ is still out there, JUST NOT LOVING ME. i’ve been slipping there a bit the last 2 days-and i think a bit of that is the close to NC. I say close to as I do keep tabs on the sockpuppets. I am moving toward outing her on the website and I have been there as a presence she knows is watching. And the more active i get, as I am confident who and what she is – the absolutely more fucking quiet the sockpuppet gets. Why is THAT? I am surprised – i would have thought she’d like to tangle – she sure did last month – with glee. is it tha thse has more or less moved on to sucking someone else’s beauty?
would like some feedback here re he spath behaviour and my latent spath desire to bully bullies back.
thanx.
one step
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Wednesday, 2 December 2009 @ 12:03am
henry says:
In the beginning, during the devalue and discard period I wanted revenge – real bad – but what I got was much better – a new life with out him – sorry you are down – it takes time but focus on you and not him/them..peace
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Wednesday, 2 December 2009 @ 12:11am
henry says:
Ugh I just got an email from an ole friend that I adored – I came home early one day and found him in bed with the X sociopath about two years ago – a wonderful day ends on a bad note….I told this guy I am wonderful and dont associate with his kind anymore….and put him on ignore – sheesh two old lying cheats of friends have contacted me in a week and think I am over it – or stupid i guess..not a chance
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Wednesday, 2 December 2009 @ 12:20am
OxDrover says:
Dear Lily,
Sometimes it is difficult to pray, because we really don’t even know what we want, much less what we need. You don’t have to put words to anything just say “Lord, please help me” You have a whole bunch of people rooting for you, and yes, anniversaries are difficult, but you know, they come around every year–but each one gets easier.
I am praying for you, and Gem is praying for you and so many other people here are praying for you, sending positive energy and care your way. That is the thing about this wonderful place is we are all different people but we share a similiar pain, a similiar experience. WE DO understand what it is like to be FILLED WITH PAIN, but by holding on to each other, like a huge group of people, all of who only have one leg, we can ALL STAND! God bless you. (((hugs)))
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Wednesday, 2 December 2009 @ 12:21am
henry says:
it was still a good day and I told both of them what I thot of them so it was a towanda day…!
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Wednesday, 2 December 2009 @ 12:40am
skylar says:
Lily,
please don’t remember that day as the anniversary of the worst day of your life. Over the years many other things have happened on that day. consider it just another day and remember that you HAVE survived therefore you SHOULD survive.
You know it would be wrong to have one less good person in the world to offset the number of P/S/N’s that exist. We need you in our army!
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Wednesday, 2 December 2009 @ 10:11am
witsend says:
Lily,
Think of the day (anniversary date) as the FIRST day of the rest of your life. Something good happened that day because you SURVIVED that day.
I do know how it feels to have trouble praying. I also struggle with this. But there are many people here that will pray for you.
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Wednesday, 2 December 2009 @ 10:33am
witsend says:
One Step At A Time,
I think right now you might be feeling overwhelmed. When you are overwhelmed your whole world feels like it is spinning out of control.
And generally what this indicates to us is that we have to let SOMETHING go. We have to break everything down into prioritys and let the rest of it go. Your energy needs to be conserved for what you CAN accomplish. Or putting it another way what you absolutely NEED to accomplish.
Continuing to watch the website is draining you and sucking you dry. Keeping “tabs” is not good for you. It continues to take up space in your head.
I have been overwhelmed before and all I could do was deal with what I absolutely had to deal with. One day at a time. My priority list was very short. I needed all my energy.
Sounds like moving is something you have to do at this point. Conserve your energy for that.
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Wednesday, 2 December 2009 @ 10:52am
OxDrover says:
Dear henry,
Well, son D got home last night from the funeral of his dad’s adoptive mother. she had always treated his dad and his dad’s kids like “red headed step kids” and her last poke at them was her will. She didnt even mention them, though she left some item to each of her 3 daughters, their husbands, and all their kids and grandkids. Not one mention of D or his dad.
D’s aunts were mortified that their mother would be so “tacky” and THEY accept their brother as their brother regardless of the blood relationship or not and they accept and love his children.
When D and I were talking last night he said “She is just like your egg donor pretending to be so good and pious and in reality she was such a fake. The only good thing about it is that if she hadn’t taken my dad in, I wouldn[‘t have had my aunts and their kids for family and they are good people.”
He also said at the funeral none of the family was weeping, unlike most funerals, and the minister kept saying “it’s okay to weep, to let your true emotions out” and D said the family’s TRUE Emotions were out, they did not feel the need to weep for this woman.
The thing that strikes me the most funny really, is that her attempt to SLIGHT her adopted son by leaving him and his kids nothing actually back fired when it made her biological children ASHAMED of how she behaved and how small her mind and soul were, and how bitter and hateful she was to someone THEY LOVED.
Her attempt to “bribe” her biological daughters’ families with her bequests to “show love” and to devalue and discard her adopted son and his children actually BACKFIRED. It wasn’t about the monetary value of any of this, and in fact, the aunts offered Ds dad and sibs anything they wanted out of Grandma’;s house–without limit–but they chose to take nothing from the woman who had no love for them.
So, by her own actions she turned her memorial service from a memorial to her with her children, into an “I’m glad we dont have to deal with that old bat any more” with no pleasant memories of anything except the humor in the sermon the minister preached about this woman he didn’t know, and the reality of what she actually was…a bitter and hateful old woman whose last act was hateful.
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Wednesday, 2 December 2009 @ 11:35am
sherry winter says:
When I read Sally’s letter, it was like she was writing what was in my soul. The loss of things, your lifestyle, or even the love you THOUGHT was true is nothing compared to the feeling that you have lost yourself.
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Thursday, 3 December 2009 @ 11:03am
OxDrover says:
Dear Sherry,
Yes that loss of self does resonate with us all I think, but the best part though is that WE CAN RECLAIM ourselves and be stronger for the experience.
Overcoming adversity strengthens the spirit just as weight lifting strengthens the muscles. God bless.
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Thursday, 3 December 2009 @ 12:38pm
one_step_at_a_time says:
i have just confirmed the lawsuit against the spath i tangled with, brought by another dupee.
big sigh of relief. i am being cautious and it has been a hard time waiting for different confirmations about the suit and some other things I could confirm. Two important pieces came within the last 24 hours.
I deeply admire this woman for going after her.
however, i am finding that i find this whole repellent beyond belief, it’s like drinking horrid stuf i don’t want to.
this am i woke in the wee hours with a start – i saw ‘HIS’ face come right at me – and i felt the energy hit me, shock me, then disipate and leave. it was wild.
last night i read the entry by noordinary (spath?????!!) CREEPY F**KING CREEPY.
all for now. cause even coming here is making me recoil.
all best
one step
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Thursday, 3 December 2009 @ 1:00pm
Stargazer says:
One step,
I also had met my spath on my favorite website. He continued to post after the discard as if nothing happened, lying to the other members blatantly. I took some beginning steps to expose him, but then I had a really bad dream about him, similar to yours, that made me realize how dangerous he was. Fortunately, I was able to get friends there to confront him and make it uncomfortable for him to post there. I also turned him into the army for fraud and adultery, and whatever they did to punish him, he has not been around on the website any more. However, I’m aware he can show up at any time, and I’m prepared to leave to maintain NC.
I truly empathize with your survival struggles because I have been there for many years. At one point in my life, I lived in my car. It is something that most people never have to experience. I have lost count of the times I’ve debated with people over how first you have to use your energy to survive. THEN you get to ponder the meaning of your life. The problem I encountered is that I have spent SO MANY years in survival mode that I honestly don’t know what to do now that I am finally financially stable. I have never known anything besides survival. So I just want to let you know you’re not alone.
About becoming a bully after the spath, I’m not sure. There could be a number of reasons you are feeling like that, and it probably has something to do with different things getting triggered by what you are going through. I don’t think you are “becoming a sociopath” and I wouldn’t worry about that. It could also just be survival or a strong sense of justice. You should hear how I talk to the phone company when they screw up my bill!
One of the reasons NC is so good is that you can’t really let your guard down and relax until you know the spath is out of your life. And you can’t heal till you can relax. It becomes a catch 22 when you want revenge/justice so badly that you put your life/healing on hold to get it. Given the choice, I would not have turned mine in, because it took 6 months for the investigation to be completed. During that 6 months, he remained in the back of my mind. I had to keep evidence on my computer and voice mail. The only reason I turned him in is because I wanted him off my website. I told him that if I ever saw him again on my website, I would turn him in. So I did. It worked, and he seems to be gone. I would have preferred he just take my offer and leave so I could have moved on with my life sooner. I don’t really care what he’s up to as long as I don’t ever have to see or hear of him again. Even when people bring it up, I will quickly change the subject so as not to give it much energy.
You will get there too at some point, but you need some distance from the situation, which probably means staying off the site. If you find this is too hard, you may have an internet addiction as well that you need to break. I know I did.
If you feel you need to participate in the spath’s fraud case, you should definitely weigh the potential benefits to the toll it will take on you. Sounds like you need to focus on your survival right now.
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Thursday, 3 December 2009 @ 8:33pm
one_step_at_a_time says:
Someting happened in the last 48 hours. I went from this really ‘hard up against it state’ to some peace – what is called a ‘purification’ in buddhism.
I have been setting smallish goals and meeting them. there is TOO much that needs doing and sorting and i have been very overwhelmed. And although this bit of peace probably won’t last, I am savouring it.
Because there is so much that needs attention i have been trying to beat myself into doing it all and i just can’t. I HAVE to take it slow. i have been living in emergency mode for too long.
i found a local agency that will help with first months rent on a new place, and one that will help when utilities are going to be cut off. and a couple of other things. so, good. I still can’t make the commitment to move -that’s still to big and requires a 2 month notice, and I don’t know what i can do this afternoon, let alone 2 months from now. And yes, the house is still toxic, but i just have to hang in there, and keep spending as much time away from it as possible.
and i have started a conversation with myself about my family. they are no more. I will begin to view myself as without family form now on, as a way to move away form their toxic crap. enough. i will be free and i will succeed or fail on my own.
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Monday, 14 December 2009 @ 11:22am
whattodo says:
I don’t know where to go on this site to post. I am new and I need help…..My story is very much the same as everyone else’s. Last year got out of 20-year marriage to what I believe now to also be a sociopath or something and straight into a relationship 5 months later with I am certain has to be one along with many other things. He wooed me, pampered me, “loved” me, made me fall head over heels in love with him and marry him less than 6 months later and now we aren’t together. I see him for what he is, he has hurt me emotionally, mentally, and verbally, degraded me, betrayed me, lied to me, and all the other “to-mes” there is. He’s left here three times, two of which I let him back in, this time he’s only been gone a week and 2 days yet I can’t stop crying, I can’t stop wanting him, I can’t stop thinking of the good times, the “love” we shared, I can’t stop loving him. I am literally dying a slow and painful death. I am certain he doesn’t care about me and my children (he so wonderfully claimed 8 months ago to want to take under his wing and help me finish raising). I am left at this point without a penny. Bills to be paid, no food in the pantry, no Christmas for my kids, wondering if my electricity will stay on or if I’ll get to keep my car and he doesn’t care. He moved ‘back in’ with his parents where he lived when I met him and after two other failed marriages (he’s 40) and is living off of them once again scott free while his paycheck gets cashed and goes for whatever he needs it to go for. The child support check I get for my four girls from my first husband isn’t enough to cover expenses let alone get them Christmas. I can’t find a job though I have searched and searched for months. I haven’t worked in over 17 years because I chose to raise my family instead but now no one wants to give me a job so I can continue to raise them.
This man wooed me in April….good-looking (to me), strong, personal trainer (at the time but couldn’t tell it now) with secrets I would only find out later. He too talked of how he was part of some Merc group at an early age in which he claims to have taken a life, broken legs, hurt women and children for money and how he now regrets it all and it haunts him. He had been married twice. First time was for 13 years. Said he was young, cheated on her early on, she forgave him, stayed with him about 10 years. He said she wanted a child but he kept telling her wait, not yet, and several years later he claims she secretly went of her birth control and “had an affair” and got pregnant. He said he made her feel so bad about it that she agreed to an abortion. They divorced after that. I wonder now if it was his own child and he just did not want it. He married a second time to a woman he claimed to date for a year before marrying her only to find out 2 months into the marriage that she was an alcoholic…..that he left her but i he could not afford to divorce her. Though the papers that I saw state that she in fact filed for divorce 2 years into the marriage. In between marriages he claims to have had relations with numerous women but always used protection. One of which he claimed to have “been” with Reece Witherspoon……(she’s from this area!) Any of his “serious” relationships always ended because the woman ended up being mental as he put it or very unstable and game-players.
I fell for all of his lies. When friends told me to slow down, get to know him better before making this kind of decision he got angry and told me they just didn’t want me happy because they weren’t happy themselves and I ended up believing it. He is a very jealous man. Asked me not to wear perfume unless we were going to be together because people only wear perfume/cologne to attract the opposite sex. I could not work-out at the gym unless he was going to be there either working out or training others because of a certain man (at least 16 years younger than I) that worked there also that he did not want me talking to. He is jealous of my girls tho he always claimed to want a family and to be part of us and help raise them where their father failed and to be there to support them. Although, he had tried to get on disability so he would never have to work again and wanted me to file for bankruptcy (which I didn’t) However, every waking moment he wanted me either with him or on the phone whether my kids were around or not. Time with him was and should have been my priority in his eyes and if my kids needed me, they were too clingy or too spoiled. I have heard many times how badly I raised my kids because they need me. He says they expect me to be there…….(duh) therefore how will they ever survive in the real world.
He loved me by the first week or two of dating and wanted to spend the rest of his life with me. I managed to put him off for a couple of months but then gave in and accepted his proposal. He was so much of what I had always hoped for in a husband. Swept me off my feet. Told me I was the most beautiful woman he’d ever been with (and reminded me often he’d been with many), the sexiest, the sweetest, kindest, most loving real woman he’d ever met. Told me how I made him want to be a better person and he was going to do just that. Told me how no other woman had made him feel as passionate sexually as I did. Promised me the world…..tho he didn’t even have a tiny part of the world. I loved him, I didn’t want money, I didn’t want anything he had, I wanted him….or the person he said he was.
He wanted to marry right away but I insisted we wait a few months. Four months later, we wed. Small but pretty wedding that he mostly paid for. Honeymoon (which costs more than the wedding and was only a 2 hour drive to Chattanooga for a few days) was paid for by me because he convinced me to use the only money I had saved up for a particular bill (which involved ex in-laws so he didn’t like it) to pay for it.
Fighting started on honeymoon because he told me 4 days into it that our sex-life was going to suck because of my kids at home and we would only get to have sex every-other weekend. Hurt and angry at that I still offered many suggestions, mornings after they were gone to school….his reply…no, mornings weren’t a good time for him, takes him too long to wake up. Ok, during the day before you go to work…..his reply, from the beginning of time and in the movies, books, etc. sex is done after the moon comes out, it just helps the mood. Ok, but can’t we at least try? His reply, like I said, our sex-life is going to suck. I’ve been called a twelve year old (I am 40) because I liked to laugh and have fun and it is because I spend too much time with my children. Now…I don’t know laughter.
He wants a child since he has none of his own. I told him I would like to try. He insisted I did not take birth control due to the risks at my age. I fell for it. A couple of weeks into the marriage I felt like the fighting was too bad and we needed to fix our marriage before trying so I said I was going to take bc anyway. He got livid. Told me I had stripped every dream he ever had away. I didn’t love him but I loved my ex-husband because I had 4 kids with him. No matter how much I have told him that I still wanted to just not now, not till we get things worked out and calmed between us. Not good enough. He doesn’t hear that and insists that I have said I never want to have a child with him. After 1 day on BC he told me that sex with me wasn’t the same for him anymore. That it just didn’t mean anything now knowing there would not be a child produced from it and if he was going to feel that way then I just didn’t have to take them anymore.
He left once for one day. An hour after he left, he had placed a personal ad on Craigslist looking for a mistress as his wife was cold, heartless and he had enough. Not knowing this, I asked him to come home that night. 2 weeks later he was found to have lied to me over an item he had tried to steal from my daughter. He, not me, he started packing his things and left. Never told him to, we were discussing what had happened. He was gone for about 4 days and I could not take it. I wanted to hold him and just believe that all would be ok with us. That day I stumbled across his personal ad because I had gotten an “idea” he may have done this. I pretended to be someone interested and contacted him via email. He then started a chat with “her” via IM and txting me…the real me on his phone telling me how much he loved me and wanted to come home. I met him in town that night and confronted him. He didn’t deny it. Told me it was done out of anger 3 weeks earlier and he wouldn’t have done anything with it anyway although this was 3 weeks later and he had in fact been chatting with “her” though he was no longer “angry”. 2 days later…..I asked him to come back home.
His dependency on pain pills has worsened. Running to mommy for pills a few times per week. The last time he did, I got upset. The next morning, he asked me did I want him to leave. I simply said, “I don’t know, things don’t seem to be getting better between us.” He said ok, packed his things and left. Didn’t want to talk, didn’t want to work it out, nothing. Six hours later I get a txt from him telling me that I had caused all of this. We have not spoken since but have txtd. Many of which are not very nice. I asked for help with bills, he lied saying he has no money (when he cashed his paycheck 2 days before he left and I never saw any of it) and that why should he help me when he wasn’t wanted. Nevermind that you have a wife and 4 stepdaughters that have no food and can’t pay the bills. He on the other hand has mommy and daddy paying his way, providing him warm shelter, filling his stomach and licking his wounds and he goes about with a clear conscious.
Still I miss him. I wanted us to work. I love him. I can’t stop. I think about him constantly. I wonder if he is chatting with someone or talking to another woman. I don’t trust him as far as I can throw him. I’m 5′5″ and 125 lbs. He’s 6′ and 230+ lbs so I couldn’t throw him far!!! I got mad once and while yelling pounded his shoulder saying you don’t even care and he turned later to say how I abused him. Knowing all of this, I can’t let go. It is ripping me to pieces. I am depressed…very depressed. I am penniless, jobless and hopeless. I don’t know how to proceed. I’m pretty much frozen in place. I don’t want to eat, sleep, do laundry, anything. How do you move from here? I’m pretty sure he doesn’t care. He has it made and sure, he’d come back if I asked him to. We have been in marriage counseling for nearly 2 months. He has missed his last 3 appts. I continue to go just to get through my days. The counselor (a Christian one at that) wonders why I want to put myself through it. She and his counselor as well, know he is not a normal human, they see it and have told me that people like him sometimes never get better and if I stay I will have to accept that could be the case with him. He thinks he’s fine. He blames me for most of it. Has promised to change what he thinks he needs to but hasn’t shown any effort to do so. I am fainting, falling, crumbling….desperate. Anybody? Help?
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Tuesday, 15 December 2009 @ 4:44pm
witsend says:
whattodo,
Well you always have to start somewhere…And you started in a good place LF.
Read the articles. Don’t even read all the comments below the articles yet because the articles themselves are going to be enough for now.
As hard as it is to believe you are in love with the illusion he created not the REAL person he is. That illusion is what you are missing and wanting. It IS an addiction and is very poweful.
Your counselor is right he will never change.
As you read the articles you will be able to identify with alot of what you read if you were targeted by an S/P/N.
The love bombing that he did early on in your relationship is very typical of this disorder. Thats what “hooks” you. Once they reel you in they show their true selves. That is what you saw more recently. Who he really is. He is NOT capable of love.
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Tuesday, 15 December 2009 @ 5:03pm
Matt says:
wattodo:
Welcome. You’re in the right place.
For starters, it sounds to me like Husband #2 is a sociopath — the lack of empathy, the lack of responsibility, the sense of entitlement, the lying, the manipulation, the cheating, the controlling behavior toward you, the keeping you off balance, the love bombing up front followed by the devalue and discard (right on the timetable — around month 3) — it is all there. And let’s not forget the claims he was a mercenary — that’s a familiar twist on the ol’ I was a Navy Seal or I was a POW song and dance.
The man who I became involved with did exactly the same thing to me. And did I mention he was an ex-con? Oh, yeah. And to really make the story good, I was a criminal defense attorney and I still got sucked in by one of these creatures. When I finally drove him off 13 months ago it was after 15 months of holy hell. Okay, the first 3 months were the walk in the clouds until the devalue and discard started. My point is that anybody can get taken in.
From a legal standpoint, I would cut my losses now and file for divorce or go for an annulment. To put it bluntly, it is not going to get better. YOu fell in love with an illusion. He never existed. Never.
There is a lot of help on this site. It was a godsend for me when I logged on a year ago. Knowledge = Power. I recommend reading Robert Hare’s “Without Conscience”. It will help you to get your head around what you have been dealing with. Also Marth Stout’s “The Sociopath Next Door.” Also, since this isn’t your first time down the sociopath turnpike you need to read “The Betrayal Bond” by Patrick Carnes. That book explains how we allow this to happen to ourselves. And if you think this traces back to your upbringing, I recommend “If You Had Controlling Parents” by Dan Neuharth. I now understand how my upbringing at the hands of a malignant narcissist mother and a sociopath father made me ripe for the picking by the time S came along. Also, there are a lot of good articles in the archives. Read, Read, Read.
One other thought — you are subjecting your kids to this creature. There are others on this site who have kids and been involved with these creatures, so they can better address this topic, so I think you should bring up that topic to them.
It is a good sign you are in counselling. But, the best way you can get your head out of the FOG (fear, obligation and guilt) is NC. No contact. It is that simple. When you go NC — and that means no calls, no texts, no smoke signals, no nothing, it give you a chance to regain some perspective. Going NC is what it all boils down to.
You’re in a place of healing. Once again, welcome.
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Tuesday, 15 December 2009 @ 5:07pm
whattodo says:
Thank you witsend and Matt for your responses. I will have to say tho it has been over a week since he left this time, today has been the most difficult of any day with or without him. I have cried more than I thought one can. I believed this morning I was literally having a mental breakdown. My children visit their father every Tuesday until around 9:00 pm and just being alone with nothing to do but think or watch television and see reminders has been extremely difficult. I tired driving to the mall just to walk around a bit but hearing the Christmas music and seeing happy people just made me walk around in tears wishing things were different and he were walking beside me.
I have read about the NC and again, that is one of the hardest things. He has texted me here and there that he loves me but goes for hours and hours with NC which hurts more because it drives home the truth that he must REALLY not care tho he says he does and it’s me that doesn’t. I really used to believe that he was what he claimed to be. I wanted him to be so badly.
I began to realize something wasn’t quite right before we married tho. He cried at the drop of a hat, almost on cue. He would have “fainting” spells that just didn’t seem real. Every time we would have an argument (which usually would last anywhere from a couple of hours to a couple of days) he would end it with “are you going to leave me” or “do you still want to marry me”. Then beg over text all night please don’t leave me. I can’t live without you. I wouldn’t want to go on without you. We made 3 trips to the ER from June until September and 2 of them were after or during an argument and his heart began to hurt. Every time turned out to be perfectly fine. He has thousands of dollars in hospital bills that he refuses to pay because he has no health insurance. He would even tell me how he realized after thinking things over that I was right and he was being silly but the next time, the same argument would arise. Most of them stemmed from his what I called “I feel” talks. He always “feels” like I don’t care enough, I don’t show him the attention he needs, I don’t really want him around, my kids don’t care about him and so on. I have to say, not to toot my own horn, that I showed that man more love than he could know what to do with. How can anyone say that you don’t love them when they treat you like dog mess, betray you by placing a personal ad on the internet while married and you still want them back? I loved/love him and wanted him and everyone else to know. I bought him clothes because he didn’t have many things. I paid for our meals when he didn’t have the money. I did and did and did for him because I wanted to. I felt for him what I had not felt in a long time if ever for my 1st husband.
Knowing I have no interest in my ex whatsoever, he has made numerous comments of how I must want to get back together with him. My ex husband makes me sick to my stomach. Who wouldn’t be sick after finding out that at least 15 or your 20 year marriage he had been hiding a porn addiction as well as also being very controlling and manipulative? This addiction mind you was going on in the next room to where his four children slept and his wife. Husband #2 was/is obsessed with husband #1 and speaks often of the fact that I had “relations” with him that produced 4 children and how that really makes him angry to think about although he himself claims to have “been with” numerous, numerous women. From one-night stands to weeks to months to some that lasted a few years.
As I sit here and write this stuff, I loathe him, I get so angry and think I never want to see him again and NC seems it would be easy but it doesn’t take long for that to subside and I begin to hurt for him. To wish things could be better. As I did tonight walking through the mall thinking….maybe, just maybe God will use His miracle working power and change him and we can be happy for the rest of our lives…….then I feel hopeful……then I realize I haven’t heard from him in hours and he probably isn’t even thinking about me….if he were he would care that I have $80 to my name until the day after Christmas and no food in my pantry, no credit left on my credit card, no way to make Christmas cookies with my kids like we have done every year….then I cry once more! Vicious cycle i can’t seem to stop. Sat in my car, head on steering wheel weeping, wanting, wondering, waiting to wake up from the nightmare.
Yes Matt, I realize I have to think of my children and I do. They also loathe this man for what he has done. My 10yr old said when I asked her why she fell in love with him the way she did was because “he made you so happy when you first met, but now he makes you cry and makes you sad and I don’t like him.” I realize I am probably NOT teaching my four daughters the kind of man to look for when the time comes and I pray they don’t get caught in the same trap as I have.
I hope I can soon begin to let go. I will continue to read from here and even get the books suggested. Possibly the season it is makes this worse. The thought of being alone. Remember, I married my first husband at the tender age of just turning 19 and was married to him for 20 years. I met and married him after having a long-term relationship from age 15-almost 18 with a boy that physically abused me by biting me and smacking me and also cheating on me with other girls. Since I was old enough to know what dating was, I had someone I thought loved me, cared for me, wanted ME with me. It is hard to imagine life alone or ever trusting another man. Actually, I spoke those words after my 1st husband. I will never trust another man as long as I live. I don’t ever want another man in my life, who needs them? 5 months later, I was hooked….
I’m scared. Scared of the loneliness, scared of the unknown, scared of the future, scared of losing everything I have financially, emotionally, mentally, even my kids’ respect, scared of never loving or being loved again the way a woman should be loved. So another day ends and I cry myself to sleep.
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Tuesday, 15 December 2009 @ 11:14pm
Matt says:
whatotdo:
What is going on with this site this AM? I have already lost the same post to you twice. Well, three’s the charm or so they say.
The crying, the fainting, the faux heart attacks — they are all classic pity plays.
My S’s classic pity play was to tell me that he knew he was going to end up like his mother. She had her first stroke in her early 50s. Ten years later she had a second massive stroke and has been comatose and brain dead in a nursing home for the last 5 years. When he used to tell me this I would jump up to do whatever I could to make him feel better. By the end all I could think was I wanted him to have a really bad stroke — I didn’t want him brain dead. I just wanted him mute and in a wheelchair. And I wanted to be the one to jam a needle into him 10 times a day.
My S could cry a river. The last time he had a meltdown in a bar — the tears flowed as he told me that his father, the previous night at his brother’s wedding, had told him that he was going to disconnect his mother from life support before the week was out. As I watched the performance I remember thinking how no parent, no matter how awful, would do that at a wedding. I was also struck by the fact that underneath all the tears there was very little emotion going on below the surface.
The fact is, the pity play is pure manipulation.
You also encountered the classic projection. When he attacked for your past with your ex-husband, and your wanting to be with somebody else, he was the one who was cheating. But, somehow that double standard never enters the equation. Here’s one thing you can lay money on and always win — when a S accuses you of something, they are projecting onto you and accusing you of the exact thing they are doing.
One thing I see with you is that you have a history of being with controlling, abusive, people. You bounce from one to the other. I can understand that completely. My parents were physically and emotionally abusive. While I look very successful in my life, I went from one destructive relationship to the next because I was conditioned to take that behavior. You have to get to the bottom of this or you will be doomed to repeat this horrific cycle. You really have to read “The Betrayal Bond”. Also, although you haven’t discussed your parents, if they were abusive, read “If You Had Controlling Parents.”
When I was trying to sort things out, I think it was Kathy Hawke told me to turn off what S said. Instead, watch his actions against a blue screen. The actions speak louder than words. That exercise really helped me to understand just how monstrous his actions were. And, for that matter, the actions of other cluster-Bs in my life.
The holidays do make things worse. Since you have kids, this is one of those cases of “function in disaster and finish in style.” You may be dying inside, but you’ve got to try to put on a good face for your kids’ sakes.
Have you reached out to a domestic violence hotline, abused women’s organization, your minister, anything like that? I think that you should.
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Wednesday, 16 December 2009 @ 9:38am
Rosa says:
Man, if I could cry on cue like a sociopath, I would be out in Hollywood, reaching for Oscar gold.
I would be trying to cash in on that bullshit.
Let’s face it, not everyone can put on the bullshit quite like THAT.
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Wednesday, 16 December 2009 @ 10:44am
whattodo says:
Matt: I have been seeing my counselor we were seeing for the marriage. In fact, I have an appt. with her later today.
As for the kids, I try so hard to put on a good face for them. I am having a hard time. When I think all is ok, one of them will say “what’s wrong momma?” and I just say nothing, why? Not knowing where the next meal is coming from on top of all the other stuff makes it very hard to function normal.
He too has used pity over and over. He claims to not be able to hear well but that is proven a lie when he can hear my cell phone on buzz from across the room and inform me that I just got a call or message but can’t hear me speak sitting next to him. One thing he likes to say is that his memory is failing him. He has trouble remembering things. One of the nights he sat for an hour throwing out all that was wrong with me, that he thought sleeping with me would be different…..romantic is how he thought it would be (obviously it wasn’t) that I acted like a child and all the while he’s saying these things I am touching him, loving him, saying things like “you’re right, I’ll change that” or “I’m sorry, I didn’t know you felt that way”, telling me as I’m trying to rub his shoulder during his fury to “stop what you are doing, I don’t like it” yet he had no recollection of any of those things the next day or the next week.
He does have a stint in his heart from the age of 29. That I do know to be true, but he feeds off of that. He knows EVERY medical term there is to know, EVERY medication there is on the market and what they are taken for as well as their medical terminology, yet has never stepped foot in a college or anything beyond high school. He snorts nasal spray several times a day almost everyday. Takes Benadryl to sleep, his mom’s Toradol for minor aches and pains and drank over 1/2 a bottle of cough syrup because he was anxious and couldn’t sleep. Red flags began going up here that he has some sort of dependency going on but would never admit to. He has said on several occasions that he is much older than he really is. Aches, pains, memory loss, hearing loss, etc. I too pampered this until I began to catch on. Now, his words are “you don’t care if I hurt or not, you must enjoy seeing me in pain.” When you said you felt sorry for yours until the end when you were wanting to see him have a stroke. I know exactly where you are coming from. I have sadly wished the same thing on mine or something similar.
How can I still love something like this? How can I still wish it would work? Why can’t I let go and forget that he doesn’t call me or txt me? Why am I so confused? I am looking forward to my appointment with the counselor this afternoon to get some of this out through more than just a keyboard.
Thank you guys for being here. It helps so much to know you are not alone.
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Wednesday, 16 December 2009 @ 12:37pm
witsend says:
whattodo,
Your questions:
How can I still love something like this? How can I still wish it would work? Why can’t I let go and forget that he doesn’t call me or txt me? Why am I so confused?
The answer isn’t an easy answer but there is an answer.
You are not in love with “something like this”.
You are ADDICTED to the ILLUSION he presented himself to be.
The answer is both as simple as it is complicated. It is not an easy thing to overcome an addiction. The intelligent side of your brain NOW (in hindsite) knows that he isn’t good for you or for your children. However the addiction side of this is that you crave him anyways.
There is no logical thinking behind the fact that a junkie (whom has LOST everything) is craving his next fix. And will do just about anything to get that fix. THAT is what an addiction does to a person.
It wipes away all logical thinking. Your life can be in shambles yet you CRAVE the very thing that keeps your life in shambles. That is addiction.
Addiction isn’t just a substance you put “into” your body. Addiction has to do with your brain.
If you treat this like an addiction you will be able to at least understand (to the best of your ability) why you crave the very thing you shouldn’t crave.
N/C is important. N/C is no texting, (no reading his text sent either) No emails, no phone calls, No updating his whereabouts through other people, my space, face book etc. No Contact not only means no communication but not communicating with others about his whereabouts, etc.
A person in recovery goes no contact with alcohol, drugs etc. And they can NOT entertain the idea of having just one little beer, or go “sit at the bar” because that is a slippery slope for them.
The challenges ahead of you are difficult. There is no easier, softer way to get through them.
It DOES help to come here and unload much of the “past” but it also helps to come here and read the articles and educate yourself.
N/C is the only way that this will work to get this toxic person out of your life. And your girls do not need to see their mother being devalued by such a man. If for no other reason do this for them….
This is painful. Everyone here as been touched by this same thing. We can hold your hand and give encouragement but the “hard” work is still left for you to do.
I think it helps greatly to find people here do “get it”. Because for many of us we never got that validation before coming here.
Having children can also be difficult in the sense that you have to function and take care of them during all of this. BUT it can ALSO be turned around that they are your reason for putting one foot in front of the other. They are your PURPOSE for getting through this. They are your responsibility and if they see you with a man that continues to bring you down they will be affected by this. Don’t give this guy that power over you. He isn’t worth it.
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Wednesday, 16 December 2009 @ 1:25pm
whattodo says:
I do know my children are my responsibility and the importance of being strong. I get so angry at myself and I begin to hate me and to feel selfish for wanting him. I’ve never had an addiction to anything before so I’m having a hard time with the fact that you are right, he’s my addiction. I see him get antsy, jittery, anxious and pacing the floors when he is “needing” something and once he either runs to mommy for a pain pill or gets his “fix” some other way, he calms down and appears ok. That’s how I do feel. I see that now. I get down and sad and wanting him so bad when I haven’t heard from him in awhile thinking I’m going to lose it right now, then when I get a txt from him, I settle down a bit. It doesn’t all go away but I can sigh a sigh of relief knowing maybe he WAS thinking about me. Maybe he’s NOT off finding someone to replace me already. Yes……I have to admit I am addicted. Not to the treatment I suppose just to the companion I had.
It may not appear as tho I am, but I really am trying here. I am only a weak vessel and my sails are ripped and torn and I need a little patching I guess.
Reading back to the top of this page, I too know how Sally feels and I too want what she wants. I fear what she fears.
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Wednesday, 16 December 2009 @ 4:40pm
Matt says:
whattodo:
Block the texts — they are a hit of your drug of choice — him. You may THINK he was thinking about you. But, what he’s accomplishing with his texts is that YOU are thinking about him. And so the addiction continues. NC means NC, plain and simple.
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Wednesday, 16 December 2009 @ 4:42pm
OxDrover says:
Dear What to do,
You have received great advise here already, but let me add. When your kids ask you what is wrong, do NOT TELL THEM ‘NOTHING”…THAT IS SHOWING THEM TO NOT ADMIT THEIR FEELINGS…be HONEST with them, tell lthem “I am sad” or “I am angry” but I will handle my emotions. That way you are modeling for them how to EXPRESS emotions in a safe way.
Many of us have been taught by dysfunctional parents t6o DENY our emotions and I think this is a lot of what made usBAIT for these predators. FEEL your emotions, and let your kids feel the emotions, you will teach them by EXAMPE.
READ the articles here, ALL the articles and when you ahve finished go back and read them again.
We start out learning about them, beating ourselves us for being so “stooopid” and letting them abuse us over and over while we still “love” the illusion, but we are “trauma bonded” to them, like Wit says, an ADDICTION.
Tell your kids, “I have felings of love for John, but John does not love me, the way he SHOWS me he does not love me is by how he treats me poorly. You would not let anyone treat you poorly and I am determined NOT to let John treat me or you guys poorly ever again, but sometimes I am still sad that he doesn’t really love me.”
That right there will do more for your kids and reassure them, and you. Hang in there (((hugs))) and my prayers for your healing and PEACE.
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Wednesday, 16 December 2009 @ 7:49pm
whattodo says:
Thanks OxDrover for the encouragement. Actually, before I ever read this my 13 year-old asked me if I was ok. I first told her yeah, but she knew different and told me so. I told her I would be ok. I was just sad and worried. Worried because I don’t know how we are going to make it with no money to pay bills or buy Christmas and sad, well you know why. She (a 13 yr old) said stop telling yourself you want him, you don’t but all I could say was but I do. That made her mad so she stomped off. I sadly admit that I have pretty much always been one to hide my emotions or at least try.
I visited my counselor today and filled her in on things. I also mentioned to her about you guys saying he was an addiction and she definitely agreed. Now breaking free from that addiction is my journey. One I’m not ready to make but know I have to somehow.
I did find out today from a friend of mine that has a friend that knows my still at the moment husband from a while back that he used to use coke on a regular basis. Told her to tell me to beware of nasal spray. That is something he uses on a daily basis several times each day. I’ve always wondered why and now I wonder even more! This person said he knows who my husbands suppliers were and that he more than likely is still involved. This made my stomach churn. Like the knife that was already shoved in my heart was just taken and twisted a few turns. Of course, I don’t know this to be true as I don’t know her source of information but she did tell me this guy is very legitimate and knows many people. Not sure if I should do anything with this information or not. I somehow think if I found out for definite that he is in fact still involved with such a drug, the breakaway may not be quite so hard. Not sure though.
Thank you for your prayers. PEACE is what I long for. Something I don’t think I’ve ever truly had in my 40 years of living. Not real true peace.
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Wednesday, 16 December 2009 @ 10:56pm
OxDrover says:
Dear Whattodo,
I suggest that you go put your arms around your daughter and be honest with her…tell her just what you have told me, and reassure her that you are going to break free from this addiction to this man.
It doesn’t matter if he is using drugs, or not using drugs, HE IS TOXIC TO YOU AND YOUR CHILDREN. I know you love your children, and they deserve that. Do it for them if not for yourself. YOU CAN DO IT. It takes WORK and determination.
Go to an Al-anon group, or find some other support group besides your counselor, preferably a group that understands addiction, because that is exactly what you have got. I have been there, I was addicted to a man after my husband died and I was so lonely, but I broke free. So can you.
My biggest addiction is the FICTION that I had to stay “bonded” to my blood family no matter what they did to me or anyone else—or die and go to HELL. Now, I nkow that is not ttrue. MY God, as I understand Him NOW does not expect me to play door mat to abusers or to take vengence on them either, but to take care of andf LOVE MYSELF.
If you haven[‘t read my article about The Golden Rule–The Silver Rule, please do so. It explains it all, we must demand that others treat us as well as we treat them, we are not told to love ourselves as we love our neighbor, but to love our neighbor as ourselves. If we don’t love ourselves and demand to be treated with respect….we can’t do anything.
Start loving yourslef, be open and honest (age appropriate honesty) with your kids. You are still their mother and they are not “your support” they deserve you to support them, but you can lift yourself up FOR them. Let them know that right now you are sad but you will be there to protect them. That you are going to be the “new and improved” YOU and the new and improved Mom that can share her feelings safely with her kids and they can share their feelings honestly with you.
You would be suprised how wonderful it is to do so. I[‘m just learning with my 40 year old son, and he with me. But it is wonderful and our relationship is so much better than ever before (he was married to a P as well and she had distanced him from me and my late husband and his brother D.)
Keep coming here and reading and reading and READING! You can’t fix him, but you can fix yourself, GROW into the powerful strong woman you want to be. FAKE IT TIL YOU MAKE IT. DO what you know is right even if you dont’ want to. ((((Hugs)))) You are in my prayers.
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Thursday, 17 December 2009 @ 12:33am
one_step_at_a_time says:
I was at a profssional assoc. meeting last night; went to network as my contract is over soon. i got through about 2/3rds of the night okay, then the desperation of my situation and the isolation and shame i am feeling started to undermine my confidence.
I came out of there thinking that thing i keep thinking: if they only knew how utterly fucked up my life is……
I keep feeling that the ug of my life situation means i am ug.
I go out and network and i think people can smell the shit on me.
I have exactly 2 skirts i can wear, and one business jacket. my boots are polished, but there are holes in the heals.
there is such a dicotomy between what i need to present and how i really feel. ‘please hire me, AND i am almost homeless’ OY!
anyway, this AM i was following up on new contacts made in the last week, and I got an email from one of the folks I met. he said something nice about me – something i stopped believing in in myself in this last while.
and i realized that there is SO LITTLE nice coming my way right now. there are fights on almost all fronts. and i can’t take it. the compliment – recognizing that there has been so little ‘nice’ and kind, not only SO much struggle, made me cry. no wonder i feel like shit.
and it is info about what i want and poses another question for me in my ongoing evaluation of the rightness of my outing the spath/ testifying against her.
big sigh, or rather, stop holding breath and EXHAAAALE.
one step
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Thursday, 17 December 2009 @ 12:45pm