Your reality is what you see
PDF By Ox Drover
My best friend has been visiting me and, as usual, when we get together we re-share “old stories” of “remember the time when so-and-so did such-and-such and how we laughed?”
One of those stories was a funny one about a small quarrel I had with my late husband. After relating the story, I had one of those “ah ha!” moments that applies to a lot of things in life.
My husband had a partial plate that was almost impossible for the dentist to get seated so that it did not “flop” and my husband used some of that pink goop that you put under a dental plate to keep it glued down. Every evening when he would get ready for bed, he would go into our bathroom, take the plate out, scrape the goop off, clean it, re-goop it, and then replace it into his mouth.
The pink goop, while wet, was the consistency of chewing gum, but when it dried on the sink, it became the consistency of concrete and I had to practically chisel it out to clean the sink. I offhandedly asked him if he would be sure he cleaned it out well before he went to bed and he assured me he would do so. I saw absolutely no improvement when I went to clean the sink the next time and I became irritated.
I asked him again to please make sure he got it ALL when he cleaned the sink and he assured me he would. Again, when I noticed that there was still no improvement, and now quite irritated, I started to nag him about how inconsiderate he was to make me have to chisel this stuff out of the sink, when it would be so simple for him to wipe it out when it was still moist.
He patiently listened to my tirade then said, “Honey, I am trying, but because it is pink, and I am color blind I can’t see it!”
Well, you can only imagine how small and awful I felt. About one inch high! Of course I knew he was partly color blind, so I should have known he couldn’t see it! His “reality” was not the same as “my reality” because we looked at the same sink and saw different things.
Blind to emotion
After thinking about this story in more detail and more depth, I think that the psychopath is maybe not “color” blind, but they are “blind to emotions” that we can see. Because we can see those things so clearly, we try to explain to them what we think is obvious, and “right before your eyes.” However, just as my husband could look at the sink and only see the “clean white” sink, and I could see the pink globs turning to concrete “right before my eyes,” our misunderstanding was because of the “different reality” that each of us saw.
A psychopath, who is unable to comprehend the “emotions” that go with words like “love” and “caring,” might think. “We are having sex, sex feels good, therefore, I love her. But because sex feels good with others as well, I don’t know why she gets so upset when I have sex with someone else. ”
We would think, though, because our “vision” is different, “we are having sex and the sex is good because we love and care about each other. Because we love each other, we will treat each other well. Treating each other well means we will not purposely do things that hurt the other one.”
My irritation with my husband was because I could see the pink blobs plainly, and I assumed that he could see them as well, and thought he was refusing to wipe them out. In fact, he was making an effort to wipe out the sink, but because he could not perceive them, he had no idea when they were gone, and his only “reality” was that the sink looked clean to him.
Family and friends
I also think this same “reality is what you see” can be applied to our friends and family members who “don’t see” what we see in the psychopath. There is a common thread among victims that “my friends don’t understand what I have been through” and “my friends don’t believe me that he is evil.”
Our friends and family members who “don’t get it” don’t see the same “reality” that we see. They are unable to draw the same conclusions that we draw, and therefore it is difficult for them to believe the same things about the psychopath that we believe. We can see things about the psychopath that they can’t see, just as I could see the pink globs and my husband couldn’t. Our realities were not the same. We didn’t see the same thing, even though we looked at the same thing.
Sometimes though we can see clearly the toxicity of the psychopath, our friends may not. They are sometimes “color blind” to the ability of a psychopath to be the way they can be. They are unable to see, to perceive, what we so clearly see as truth. These people cannot validate our vision, and they didn’t even have a way to know that their vision is defective, like my husband did. He knew he was color blind and couldn’t see certain colors, and because he believed I was honest and had good color vision, he took my word for the fact that the pink goop was there. Unfortunately, most of our friends and family are not aware that their vision is “blind” in this sort of situation. Just as the person who is color blind doesn’t know what color looks like, the person who has never personally experienced the true vision of a psychopath, has difficulty seeing this vision, even when it is before their very face.
We aren’t crazy (though sometimes others think we are!) our vision is REAL and our vision is VALID, and so is theirs, as far as they are concerned. I know it frustrated me for people about whom I cared and thought cared about me, could not “see” what I so clearly saw where my egg donor or my psychopathic son were concerned. I now realize these people cannot see what I see, cannot accept what I have finally so painfully accepted. Realizing that these people are blind in this sphere makes it easier for me to accept that they can’t “see” and can’t “get it.” Just as I had to accept that my husband was doing the best he could to clean the pink goop off the sink, but his vision prohibited him seeing it, I have to accept that those people who have a “blind spot” where psychopaths are concerned are doing the best they can with the somewhat “limited” vision that they are capable of. I also realize that my own vision was somewhat “limited” before the “scales fell from my eyes” and I could truly see the psychopaths.
My vision is my reality. The vision of others is their reality. Maybe those things will never be the same, but it doesn’t mean my reality is not valid. It also doesn’t mean that they are purposely doubting me, it just means that their vision is not the same as mine.
Just like the mythical “vampire” doesn’t show up in a mirror, psychopaths, don’t always appear in their true form in the vision of those who behold them. Just like the soiled sink with its pink globs appeared perfectly clean to my husband, with his limited color vision, psychopaths appear “perfectly normal” to those who do not have the sphere of vision capable of “seeing” them for what they truly are.
written by Donna Andersen • Permalink •
Cat says:
Well said, “justabouthealed”. The reality is, there WAS no reality. It’s perfectly normal, I’m coming to understand, to grieve an illusion because at one time, that illusion was my reality.
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Twice Betrayed says:
justabouthealed. So true. Still sometimes I get a ping of sadness over the illusion. Yesterday my x phoned me to ask a tax question….and he started the conversation with his soft “hey” from many years ago….I still felt the pull even now. Dang it. I did not bite but had to answer some tax questions for him. ugh..
EB: never heard that on horses. That part of their hair is called the forelock. I will remember that…..’swirl is not centered’….hmmmm. Interesting. Usually I can tell a nutty horse by their eyes.
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ErinBrock says:
Twice….I’m not a horse person…..
When you stumble upon your next nutty horse…..check out the swirl and let me know….
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ErinBrock says:
I just looked up forelock….the ‘swirl’ she speaks of, it’s not the hair, like the ‘bangs’….its the ‘fur’ part between the eyebrows…..a lot of times it is white or another color than the rest of the horse. It often looks like a swirl.
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Stargazer says:
Henry,
I am the queen of pining after men many years after the relationships have ended. I’ve been there so many times. At least it usually passes and gets less and less as time goes by. I had an acute bout of longing back in February for the sociopath I’d left the July before. I thought I had no more feelings left for him, but they sneaked up on me. I have not felt anything toward him since. You will get there in your own time, too. No need to pretend. I think the time frame for grieving has a lot to do with how much we had invested into the relationship.
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Stargazer says:
LOL It’s strange to see you guys comparing sociopaths to horses. Usually, they are compared to snakes, which happen to be my pet of choice.
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LouiseGolem says:
TwiceBetrayed – I know that “hey,” and it wasn’t so long ago (a few months) that I got excited every time I heard it. Still do. Oh, it hurts so much. . .
And CAMom, thank you. I think my S was also yours. They sound very, very very similar. I’m really still trying to extricate myself now – over the summer, had an experience that helped me see the seams in his seeming.
Regarding the article – it’s very sobering, when one has bought so utterly into the weird but well-crafted world of an S for awhile (two years in my case) to begin to realize he can’t see the pink blobs on the sink, or, more chillingly to me, can’t feel the same love I felt when we were together.
It was actually my family who called it to my attention. His response was to demonize those members of my family who wouldn’t let him capture them in his spell. (oh, he is so beautiful, and his voice, so sweet) So it became a tug of war between him and my family, with me in the middle. I’m still in pain, because he is oh, so strong a force on me. And his family, too – I heard them say that they liked the way he acted when he was around me (he can be really nice when he’s around me — because, hell, I’m nice.) So his family has been lying and playing tricks to keep me in the picture, despite the fact that I now know he’s had at least two relationships during ours.
Well, I’m rambling. I just have to say I’m grateful to read this stuff. It’s nice to know some folks actually survive a break up with such a person. Right now, I must confess, I’m convinced he’ll try to kill me. . .
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kim frederick says:
Lg, the seams in his seeming. Love it. Could also be the seems in his seaming…..I love wordplay.
How about this one, “Time wounds all heals.”
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CAmom says:
Twice: High five back atcha! I have a QH–you? We can learn a lot about people from watching horses or maybe vice versa? My first horse was a classic Alpha Mare and boy could she get agressive in the pasture. My current mare (Babe) is a sweetheart in the pasture, very docile, but still tests me from time to time. And yes, that crop would have come in handy with my ex too. And let’s not forget about spurs
Erin: I do think it’s the markings she’s talking about. My super-agressive mare had white off kilter markings on her head, kind of a swirl twisting down to a snip. She was *lethal* around other horses. I got threatened with a lot of lawsuits from her beating up on her pasture mates. My current horse has no markings on her head at all. And Star, the markings on my super-agressive horse mare were snake like actually! Hmmm…
And yeah, that nutty look in their eyes…my ex had more of a blank look. The nutty look you can spot on a horse and sorta predict what they’re capable of. But the sociopaths…no such luck.
Before you buy a horse you should always get a “vet check” to see if they’re sound. Too bad there’s no “vet check” for potential mates to see if they’re sociopaths or just garden variety neurotics. You can work with a neurotic horse but the really psycho ones are too f’n dangerous.
Ok, can’t resist: A horse story. I *almost* bought a horse that was calm with it’s owner. With me, she charged me, bit me, tried to kick me, and was coming back for more as I was running out of the arena as fast as I could. Then she turned her attention to other people in the arena…who started running…Sorta like my ex come to think of it. He was just a lot more subtle…at first.
But yes, horses are animals and act like animals. I think sociopaths are acting on their own natures and while very cunning, can’t conceal the fact they’re sociopaths. But we have to know what to look for. Very hard when their words do not match their actions—very confusing. At least horses don’t have the intelligence to really pull off a good con
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ThornBud says:
HENRY,,,,You DO NOT LOVE HIM !!!! U just love an illusion! Like child loves to hear a tale, over and over again. With time, child realise that tale is not real, but somehow it still loves to hear it. I can feel ur pain, so many times i felt the same, and still. Than, i am telling myself: Come onnnnn, why don’t u imagine George Clooney??? Love with George is the same…FICTIONAL. Because person we loved never was real.
Wake up, Henry…HE never existed…u are mature man, sensitive, face the truth, for ur own sake. “HE” doesnt deserve any of ur feelings! Save them for someone who does! Or will.
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CAmom says:
Louise, I spent a lot of time (months) believing my S was going to kill me also. He’d bought a shotgun and threatened to kill himself on my front lawn, so I could watch. I always thought he would kill me first, then himself. After a while I realized he wouldn’t kill himself as on some level he was too in love with himself, and I knew he wouldn’t want to kill me and go to prison. But those months of knowing he had the shotgun & the threats…very relieved when he moved across the country. But by then his shotgun had been confiscated by the police here. (long ugly story) But I know how that feels, to be afraid for your life.
There is life after a S. It took me a really, really long time to get over it, if I am really over it even now. I went back to him even after the threats. I missed him. Maybe it’s a kind of Stockholm Syndrome. PTSD. I finally realized he was whatever he was, couldn’t see it, was incapable of change, and I was too miserable to keep going.
I don’t know if this is common with sociopaths & their partners, but I found my tolerance for the intolerable grew and grew and grew. I look back and think “any normal, healthy woman would have left long, long before.” So I have a lot of shame to deal with, and self-recriminations. The how-did-I-let-this-happen-to-me? Why did I stay? Why did I go back?
Kim: I love word play too “time wounds all heals” lol
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kim frederick says:
Camom. yes our tolerence grows, just like in an addiction. because it is an addiction. For me, I was more angry at myself DURING than after, because, I knew damn well it was bad for me, had no good out-come, was really twisted, and still, couldn’t stop…..this went on for yesrs….Once I left, I congradulated myself, because it felt like a victory.
Not completely, though. I still have to account to myself for the seven years i lost (just on the last one) but I am learning all about the reasons why……and its really pretty interesting….God bless you, and all of us.
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OxDrover says:
The horse swirl, or the swirl of hair on a cow is formed during the same time that the brain is formed, it should be low between the eyes, or between the eyes. the higher it is toward the “forelock” (tuft of hair hanging down between the horse’s eyes from the mane) the more skittish the animal will be. Dr. Temple Grandin whho is an expert on bovine and equine behavior did some research on this and it had always been an “old wives’ tale” but she proved it is true.
Every true old time horseman/woman I have ever known would tell you the same thing although they didn’t know the “reason” they just knew it was true.
Disposition in cattle and horses is very heritable, and calm animals produce calm animals and skittish or “high headed” ones produce skittish and “high headed” ones (“High headed” means hyper-vigilent) That’s why I culled out my cow herd of animals with bad dispositons or “high headed” ones.
Horses and cattle too, respect the “dominant” member of the herd but not others, so yes, a horse can respect one person as dominant and not give them a problem while not believing that ALL humans are dominant to them. My cattle were the same way, they knew I was dominant to them and knew ME, but did not accept ALL humans as dominant to them.
Just like my dog may not “sit” when YOU tell him to, though he knows what the word means no matter who says it. some dogs (horses, cows) will “sit” for anyone, but not all will. Depends on the animal.
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LouiseGolem says:
Yes, the tolerance for the intolerant. I am a forgiving person, and I developed that to an extreme, in order to keep the relationship going. But I guess what happened with me was he reached my threshold for the intolerant. Won’t go into details here, but I will say it had to do with some of his increasingly shocking (to me) sexual indulgences. At a certain point, I realized that in order to remain an active partner in the world he created I really had to exceed my comfort zone beyond anything I could stomach. So that was when it exploded, and around the same time I found this website.
When I first found it, I was in absolute denial – couldn’t ever believe that that could be HIM, and the victim could be ME, but hell, I fit the profile to a T, and unfortunately, so did he in way too many ways. I ran like hell, and everyone who saw me (someone who has lived all over the world) running later told me that a) they’d never seen me so damned upset, and b) they saw it in him before I did. He has lured me back a few times — if only because I feel like I sort of have to keep an eye on him.
Camom – thanks so much for your notes on your fear of getting killed. Mine (to my knowledge) has no weapons, but loves to have a nice knife set in the house, and a couple times he fingered my neck in ways that made me way too uncomfortable. Also said stuff that was way freaky (about killing people.) This was another big alarm for me –
Anyway, I’m in therapy now. And watching my back like crazy. But still do have some contact with him. That love lingers. . . from what I’m learning from this site, though, he has reflected my own self and love back to me, right? Which means that what I really might love is myself–funny thing. I’ve never been good at self respect, much less self love.
Oh, the seams in seeming? — my interpretation of this very pithy speech from Hamlet (Act I Scene ii, I think), who may have been a sociopath of sorts. Or he understood the sociopathic mindset well, because he recognized when and where people were putting on performances, and how to manipulate them:
Seems, madam! nay it is; I know not ‘seems.’
‘Tis not alone my inky cloak, good mother,
Nor customary suits of solemn black,
Nor windy suspiration of forced breath,
No, nor the fruitful river in the eye,
Nor the dejected ‘havior of the visage,
Together with all forms, moods, shapes of grief,
That can denote me truly: these indeed seem,
For they are actions that a man might play:
But I have that within which passeth show;
These but the trappings and the suits of woe.
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henry says:
Dear Doc Ox – What about cowlicks and widows peaks- Maybe the hair can be a warning if we know what too look for?
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OxDrover says:
Henry, I’ve thought about that too, actually. No answer on it though. On cows and horses they all have a “swirl” of hair on the front of their head, I have seen them as low as on just the top of the nose and as high up as into the forelock on a horse (or between the horns on a cow) the “usual” is sort of right between the eyes, but have even seen some that have 2 different swirls. It is’t an “exact science” just a general indicator. People too have “swirls” and directions on how our hair “lays” (my hair on my head wants to fall in my face) but i would think any “swirl” on a person would be maybe just above the eye brows or between them, where the hair is very short and fine so might not be very “visible” I do know that when we were learning to suture, there were these big charts that showed the “grain” of the human skin, and if you cut across the grain it leaves a bigger scar than if you cut “with the grain” just like on leather. I have some places where I got some pretty BIG cuts with the grain on my skin and they didn’t leave much of a scar at all but the guy who operated on my pinched elbow nerve cut across the grain and it left a huge wide, ugly scar.
I think eventually they (medical researchers) will find some kind of medical scan of the brain, or a chemical test that will show some GENERAL information about Ps (at least the most extreme ones) maybe even some kind of treatment.
Hey, Henry, sugar, I am sorry you have had a bad weekend. I actually had a good one, I am getting less stiff and sore and can walk a bit better and these old bones are not hurting quite so bad. We had a bunch of folks out to shoot out on the range, and even the “drama queen” being here with her husband didn’t bother me. LOL when she started in bad mouthing him as soon as she got him out to the range and she and a couple of the girls and I had come back to the house to go get a drink of water, she started in mouthing and I am SO PROUD OF MYSELF I said “Teri, just shut up bitching about your husband. He’s alive and you know what, he isn’t out screwing other women, he goes to work each day, and he loves you so i dont’ want to hear any more about it.”
She said “Oh, I need to vent!” and I said, “well, this is my space and my house, and I don’t want to hear you bad mouth him, so find someone else to bitch to.”
Ain’t you proud of me! TOWANDA FOR ME!
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henry says:
Towanda !~~!! I am proud of you Ox – for tellin it like it is..I have been kinda blue today but those days come less often…concerning him anyway..Back to the hair thing, what do you call it when a guy has one big eyebrow? You know what I am talking about – those dudes are scary. Then you see guys with their hairline almost down to the eyebrow, that’s spooky too.
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OxDrover says:
Neanderthal! Ha ha Nah, I think in animals it can have a general sign of the overall temperment but like I said, it isn’t an exact science in animals and sure not in people, but I think you are right in that some guys (and women) that “look tough” are kind of tough but not sure if there is really any correlation or not.
I am kinda proud that I stood up to her today, and especially since she was doing it in front of other guests, folks who had not been here before. And you know, this IS my space and I don’t have to tolerate people coming into my home and 1) making me uncomfortable and 2) making other people uncomfortable.
And, the nicest thing is her being here did NOT stress me out!
Henry, I have decided there is nothing we can change except our own ATTITUDE about it all. And, that is ALL we need to change. all this time I have been so miserable the ONLY thing I have change is MY OWN attitude. Everything else is the same–my son is still a P, my egg donor is still what she is, and so on, but MY attitude is DIFFERENT. that’s it. That’s “healing in a nut shell” and I wish i had seen this from the get go, it would have made it all a bunch easier and saved me a lot of pain. Ah, 20:20 HIND SIGHT!
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pollyannanomore says:
Oh Henry Henry! Your words made me well up
“I hope I don’t go to my grave loving him.”
It is so unfair that we were targetted. I bet you have a beautiful heart and an amazing personhood … perhaps what hurts most is that it was nothing to them. They could have found someone who didn’t care so much … someone who ran around like they did. Someone who was as callous and cold and uncaring. But they targetted us and over years tormented us in every imaginable way.
I was thinking today it is like murder but they lead us to it wordlessly laughing as we select the tools to end our own lives in tears and sorrow. It is horror – they should all be locked away or tattooed in some way to alert everyone to what they are. I am terrified of crossing paths with another one … the wolf can look like the most gentle sheep
The pain is terrible. I wish there was a camp somewhere close to me but I am far from the rest of the world.
The pain is terrible. Thankyou everyone for not being cheery on this thread – this one lets us realise how painful it is to be tormented to the edge of reality, to the edge of our personhood, and then not believed by anyone around us because the Ps put on such a good show to the outside world. It is a crazy situation!
I am listening to a marvellous Steve Becker interview … not sure if I can post the link, but please moderators just edit it if I am not. Marvellous marvellous rich description and explanation. It made me see again it was not my fault, I couldn’t have done anything to change it, it was never going to change, it was easy to be fooled by his acting… It’s about narcissism but also about sociopathy / psychopathy …
http://www.marthatrowbridgerad.....your-life/
CA Mom and Kim … I was thinking a karmic retribution theme with the play on words …
“Time wounds all HEELS” (lol)
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Delluca says:
My reality is so skewed right now. I’m fighting between my logical head and my emotions and the emotions are winning. I’m in therapy and no matter how many times I’m told that it’s not my fault for what happened I can’t truly believe it. My therapist wasn’t there…how does she know that HE was the sociopath and not me? I did some lying of my own, told him stuff to try to provoke any sort of emotional response from him, tried to test whether he loved me as he said. I got nothing of course. The problem is I still love my sociopath. Even though I put up with all his behaviours he broke it off with me and I miss him and deep down I know I would get back with him if he wanted. I know I have no self-respect left. I’ve ready many of your experiences and they just scream out to me with their familiarity yet I still cant accept that he might be one. On the standard sociopath checklist, he ticks every criteria, and even with this “evidence” I still find it hard to accept. I guess after being told so many times by him that I’m entirely responsible for everything that happened between us I cant see it any other way. We work in the same office and I have to face him everyday and though I’m looking for other work I’m still dying off a little bit more inside each day. Right now he’s the normal one and I’m the crazy one. I can see it all over our colleagues faces. “You just have to forget about it and move on” they say, “Break ups happen all the time.” And when they say these things, I start to think that they’re right, that maybe I’m making a big deal out of nothing, and then I remember what he did…the lies and the manipulation. This wasnt just a breakup, he systematically destroyed any shred of self worth I had. At times, I thought he was psychic with the way he would know exactly what could hurt me or alternativley what would make me feel like the most special person on earth. The thing that helps me through at the moment is that I know these people can’t possibly understand what he is truly like, more importantly they cant possibly understand how his behaviour affected me. I know some of his stunts seem insignificant to an outsider’s eyes but my god how they impacted upon and hurt me. Right now its a struggle just to get throught the day without thinking that I’m nuts…nuts for still loving him, nuts for replaying each incident over and over and nuts for trying to figure out where I went wrong. Well you all know the feeling…
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pollyannanomore says:
Delucca – welcome and sorry you are here at all but welcome to this wonderful healing space. We at least understand your pain – others just can’t.
You are normal … yes their behaviour makes us do and say some crazy things … but that is the nature of long term abuse.
You are normal … come tell your story and share your wounds … you are not alone .
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ErinBrock says:
Delluca:
Spirit40:
I also welcome you here. Read the articles, post as you need/wish and you will learn and grow as you walk your journey.
I am sorry your both here with us…..we do understand through our own experiences….
there is a lot of insight on this board…..so take what you need, discard the rest and find your happiness!
Good luck!
XXOO
EB
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Spirit40 says:
Thank you ErinBrock!
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luv716 says:
Yesteday in therapy my therapist suggested that i take a low dose antidepressant she suggest that it wil bring back happiness
it will take the edge off it will take me away from the place that im stuck in my question is how? How do it take away the hurt that I’m feeling the hurt of being used, the hurt of being played, In therapy I cried so hard because its like what I read within all the blogs above I still have love for this person and reality is he not giving a damn about me and I’m loving what wasnt real I know time heals all wounds but God this gotta be the hardest break-up I’ve ever experience I’ve never been used before.
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luv716 says:
Loneliness is a lonely place to be
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Easy says:
The COLD HARD FACT is that we take it ( the Relationship ) Personal!
It is NOT Personal! It is the way these Parasites Are! Try telling a Virus that it is bad! It doesn’t work!
It is not easy , it takes time but find anything to occupy your thoughts on besides ( it ) Take back your soul!
I tell you they do not spend any amount of time thinking about us , Unless we let them!
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lostingrief says:
luv716:
i know how you are feeling. i was there a year ago. i can only share how i helped rid myself of that level of hurt and humiliation of being played so hard! i gave it all back to the s/p/n-hole. i wasn’t the one who lied and was unfaithful. i wasn’t the one who used and abused. HE did! so, i just decided that all the shame and hurt goes to him … not me. i literally visualized taking all the pain in me (big blob of black goop) and dumping it over his head. i saw the ooze weeping from my heart going into a glass and making him drink it! yea, it’s weird, but it really helped.
you are NOT responsible for carrying all that pain. he caused it … so let him carry it around. it’s ALL ON THEM! maybe it’s that i’m a stubborn person, and i’m very principled. i won’t take responsibility for his abuse and pathology any longer. he did it. he owns it.
be good to yourself. you were simply in his way. if it wasn’t you, it would have been the next chic he saw.
they’re disgraceful pigs from demon-land! shake it off and let it all land on him.
and scream: TOWANDA!!!!!
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ThornBud says:
LOL, actually, i told my ex he is a pig. He just laughed. I guess he was too much surprised to react some other way
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LouiseGolem says:
I’ve been thinking all night about something I wrote on this blog, and I want to resay it, because it deserves to be extracted from the aura of Shakespeare:
I said: “from what I’m learning from this site, though, he has reflected my own self and love back to me, right? Which means that what I really might love is myself–funny thing. I’ve never been good at self respect, much less self love.”
It seems to me that sociopaths and psychopaths feed on those who for some reason don’t love themselves, and who need the reinforcement of being “loved” by a beautiful person. Could it be, then, that we’re not really loving them at all (after all they’re just shells of people, how can we love them) when we’re in a relationship like that, we’re really loving ourselves, and loving ourselves loving that person. If that makes sense. I think that does apply for me, at least.
What a thought. Perhaps what every person writing here might want to think about is this: that love we gave to them was actually a love we gave back to ourselves. Whatever quality of love we gave ricocheted back to us, because it was reflected in the S’s mirrror. Don’t mourn it — the capacity to love yourself lies within you. Save yourself some pain — look in a real mirror right now and love yourself.
I write that for myself. Hope it makes sense to anyone else who stumbles upon it and needs it.
By the way, CAmom, I’m convinced we were involved with absolutely the same man. And Delluca, I’m with you honey. I’ve been struggling for two months now with precisely what you’re struggling with.
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OxDrover says:
Dear Sppirit, and others, too,
The STRESS we are under does some nasty things to both our bodies and our ability to think, remember, etc. Your poor score on a test is, I think a result of the stress itself.
Loving them even after the betrayal is known, after they have stomped you into the dirt, is very typical. Also anger, frustration, feeling that “I caused this” and also your own friends INvalidating YOUR PAIN, “get over it, break ups happen all the time” makes your pain and your grief “disenfrancinsed grief”—devalues your feelings.
YOUR GRIEF AND PAIN IS REAL. It is YOURS and LF bloggers KNOW it is real, because we have BEEN THERE…but in the end, we all have to VALIDATE OUR OWN FEELINGS and to realize that WE ARE REAL and no one can take that away unless we allow them to do so.
As far as “being crazy” one of the prime things that the P does to victims is to “make us feel crazy” it is called “crazy making” and a group of various techniques are used to cause this, among which is “gaslighting” and distorting reality.
You say “I feel hot” he says, “Oh, no, it is vERY cold in here.” Pretty soon you start to doubt your own senses—that is gaslighting.
You have an argument, it is your fault, he is innocent. You are dumb, you are worthless, you are crazy, he is the sane one.
He/she will also smear you to others, “she is a crazy bitch, not me.” She is lying, not me. They are good at this.
READ READ READ the archived articles here. LEARN LEARN LEARN about them, and keep in mind, that KNOWLEDGE=POWER, gain knowledge and gain power to stop the feelings that the victims allow the psychopaths to implant in our brain like a virus in your computer.
There is peace after this, and it is worth working toward, and this healing process starts out about them, and ends up about becoming a stronger and bette rperson yourself.
Keep on reading and blogging here, it is a comforting, validating and healing place. God bless.
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PInow says:
Makes total sense, LouiseGolem , but is missing something. How come I cried when I read your post? I think I did love the man he pretended to be. He knew exactly what I was looking for in a man, and there he was. It’s funny, how he matched totally MY idea of an ideal relationship, at least at first. It was not that I loved myself loving him, it was that I loved a dream that for awhile became embodied in him. So, in a way, you can say, I created an Idol. The Idol that had gone crumbling down with whatever dreams, secrets, private hopes and shared desires I bestowed upon him.
They are very kin, attentive, like sponges. (or, should I say like toddlers?) Great memory, and ability to read nonverbal behaviors. Would make awesome psychologists if they gave a hoot about another.
Oxy, I think, said that it is betrayal that makes us so hurt. I agree, but more than betrayal, for me it is the loss of a dream, which was right there, close, almost real… The Ultimate betrayal was to know that it was never what I thought it was.
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henry says:
Delluca – Your not the sociopath. I am not a sociopath. We did crazy things that are sociopathic. I personally thinks it’s somewhat contagious when we are involved with one. If they mirror us and we love the goodness and kindness we are reflecting to them, then when they take our identity, they in a sense become us and we become them. I know that does not make sense, but I did things I never thot I was capable of. It was like a war of love. And at times I was out to hurt him as bad as he was hurting me. I really lost my identity. There was nothing in me but anxiety, mentally and physically I was dying. That was part of his plan. And I wasnt going down with out a fight. I was so embarassed at my behavior. I can remember telling him, I have never lived like this, acted like this, it was foreign too me. But slowly I came out of the fog, the nitemare, and I have my identity back. I am more aware about his kind, and i will never behave like one of them again.
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PInow says:
Henry, I think you are so right. they steal our identities, not just mirror us. They want what they don’t have. And they mirror us to get it.
How come I can’t remember any fairytales? I am sure there were plenty about stolen dreams and stolen souls… I am sure they were created because blogs weren’t available and humans wanted to protect their children from the evil ones.
Maybe, that is what we all have in common: we forgot that the boogey man exists and we thought ourselves invincible?
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Cat says:
PInow and LouiseGolem,
I hear exactly what you are saying. I fell in love with the knight in shining armor on the white stallion. All he really did was “mirror” what I said I was looking for in a person. For some reason, this kind of person knows exactly how to get in to your soul and read your “needs” and then becomes that person you want. The problem is, they really are NOT that person at all. It’s an illusion. Did I love the illusion? Yes. Do I love the REAL person I found out that he was? No. The grieving that goes on over someone that never really existed takes a long time and HURTS a lot. It IS a betrayal, of the worst kind. I have such relief that the person he pretended to be is gone, though he tries to pull that illusion out now and then. PInow, I can remember looking at my ex P and telling him that he took my dreams. How interesting that you should write that. His response was that if I just admitted my true feelings (which I have and he can’t handle) then the dream would still be there. This P believes you can force another into loving you, it just takes time. Too much time has been taken already! There is NO way that one can live a dream based on a figure that never really existed.
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henry says:
PInow We thot the boogey man had horns and a tail. And if we saw one we would run, never did we think we could fall in love with evil…
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Cat says:
Dear Ox,
Reading, reading and reading some more. Can’t get enough of what is on this site.
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PInow says:
Funny you should say that, Henry. When I brought P to meet with a family member, she asked me if he has a tail and horns when naked at night. So, some did see them in a true light…
(Until for awhile he pulled one over her too, yeap!, he’s a master)
Cat, I said he destroyed my dreams and made me mature and lose innocence. My lovely, dearest, my trusted P said with no emotion in his face whatsoever: “that’s about time”.
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henry says:
PInow – I had a few friends tell me ‘after the fact’ that when they first met the guy they knew he was ‘not right for me’ and I asked why didnt you tell me then? They said ‘you wouldnt of believed me, you had to find out on your own.’ so true……
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Cat says:
PInow,
I understand now. I went back and reread your post.
I too had people ask me what I had seen in this particular person. What is ironic is that these are the very people he’s now won over. I was so head over heels that I passed right over meeting his family and finding out their nickname for him was “Nixon.” Nothing against Nixon, mind you. My exP had it all over him.
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luckyzb says:
Henry wrote…. “So you forgave your husband and understood his way of seeing things. So the P’s live in their reality, their disability? We have to accept they are flawed? Dont hold them responsible?”
I’ve been gone awhile but I had to respond. Ox’s article made me remember a time when, after having a great night together, my exP answered his cell phone (not recognizing the number and thinking it was work) only to sit there in silence while the daughter of the girl he’d cheating on me with drilled him about why he’d blown off her mother. When he hung up, I went berserk, of course, and he had to admit it – there was just no other way to explain the look on his face. What blows me away now thinking about it – and what made Ox’s article hit home – was, finally, after an hour of holding his face in his hands (got caught, poor baby) and listening to me sob hysterically, demanding to know “Why??? Why!!! We have such a great sex life!!! How could you??” was to respond with a helpless shoulder shrug and say, “God, I’m sorry. I just didn’t think it was that big a deal.” Of course, that later turned to “Get over it or I’m leaving! Stop whining” but it IS their reality. It IS how they perceive it to be. In his reality, it really WAS no big deal!
To Henry’s first response, I, too, had a slight reaction to OX’s post of “okay, so they get a pass for this?” But then it took but 3 minutes for clarity to sink in. It’s not about it being a “disability” because, if it was, well, that WOULD be a whole different story. I see it as having to accept that the man you’ve loved all these years is really a cold-blooded serial killer who sees nothing wrong with his behavior. We certainly don’t have to FORGIVE that way of thinking and the only thing we have to ACCEPT – as hard as it is – is that nothing – but NOTHING – will ever change it and, in order to save ourselves, we have got to get out. To me, same thing.
After ten years of hell and confusion and after one solid year of “a-ha” tearful moments tracking his narcissism, I am on my third month of NC. I never thought it would happen, I swear to God, but one day he threw a fit over something and walked out and something in me snapped. I NEVER let him back in (one time he pounded on the door for one solid hour) or picked up the phone (finally blocked all his numbers) or anything. It’s made him absolutely crazy but for all the wrong reasons. It is OVER! I can’t even remember if I’ve shed one tear (which is ALL I did for ten years!) since I had the epithany.
Don’t get me wrong, he’s still rearing his ugly head about once a week – either throwing rocks at my window, calling from pay phones to leave msgs I NEVER listen to, calling my mother and friends (who hate him, Thank God) – but he gets not a single reaction from me or even a glimpse of my face and I just go about my business. Eventually, he’ll move on to his next victim. It’s just that I was soooo easy, I’m sure! But now I’m FREE! Now, I realize that entire days go by without me even thinking about him. I don’t care who he is with, what he is doing, or if he has a place to live. I don’t feel a loss about the last ten years anymore because nothing about it was REAL – it was all a LIE. Therefore, there is absolutely nothing to miss and I am moving forward very peacefully. Life is good without all that intentional chaos and turmoil.
For those women out there who know what’s up with their P but worry that they’ll never let go, you will. Everyone’s time finally comes – in an instant! Thank God.
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kim frederick says:
Lucky, I agree. I knew I was miserable, I lived with a sense of impending doom, I was depressed, lonely angry sad, frusrated and poweless. We split up many times and I always let him back. I used to lie in bed at night and pray for Gods help because I couldn’t, couldn’t, couldn’t let it go.
Finally I did, and by that time I think I was already over it, because, like you said, I’m not sure I shed a tear. I was damned pissed, though.
I loved what you said to the folks who are struggeling with trying to get free….It will happen.
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ErinBrock says:
Lucky:
Your post was so ‘right on’! Thanks for putting is so clear!
I so agree…..we go on and on letting them lie their way back in, while we just know something isn’t right…..love shouldn’t ‘feel’ like this……
And then…..just one day……one minute……THAT”S IT! Enough…..get out!
Your post took me back to when I went NC…..from the separation to continuing to have contact for the kids and business…….then the restraining order, to giving up any reason to maintain contact…..not even the kids……cold turkey, one day……didn’t return calls…..oh, the calls didn’t stop coming, nor the visits to my house watering my lawn….(freak!)…..but the minute he kicked in the door….couldn’t take the NC any more…..TPO time……and the law to keep him away…..he finally got the picture…..
We are DONE!
It took me 28 years of ‘knowing’ but hiding from the facts…..that we were done before we ever got started…..(slow learner, denial, fantasy….) whatever…….but TODAY…..it’s a done deal….he is my past…..and that is where he will ALWAYS STAY!
I second Kim and Lucky…….It will happen!
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OxDrover says:
Lucky (and Henry too)
I never thought about my article being taken to mean that we should just ignore the P’s “disability” and let them go on. Mostly I was aiming at us realizing that our friends and family can’t see OUR situation like we do. They don’t see the P AS WE SEE HIM. They don’t see our SITUATION like we do. They are “color blind” to what we can see clearly, that we are DEVESTATED, that our P is NOT “Mr/Ms. Nice Guy”.
I do think we need to go a bit easy on some of our family and friends because they ARE BLIND, not just devaluing us, they literally CAN’T SEE what our situation is.
As far as the P is concerned, yes, they are also STONE cold “blind” but it AIN’T NO THANG WE SHOULD PITY—or give them a break for.
Where I was wrong with my husband was attributing to malice or uncaring what WAS a disability–and since he was not a malicious or uncaring person, just color blind, I was being terribly unfair. Sometimes (not always) our friends who don’t “get it” about how we hurt and not uncaring or malicious, they just “don’t see” it through no fault of their own.
The P, on the other hand, in the same situation, upon learning that we were inconvenienced by the “pink goop” would have taken a case of tubes and deliberately smeared it on the sink. LOL
To them NOTHING that they inflict on you is a ‘big deal” but ANY slight they perceive you do to them is MONUMENTAL.
NC is the last great narcissist INSULT you can do to them, the worst pain they can have because it takes control SQUARELY OUT of their CONTROL, and puts it in your control.
Lucky, I’m glad you posted this, it even clarified for me that no matter how you THINK your point is written and clear, sometimes it isn’t. Thanks too, Henry, you should have boinked me and made me clalrify this one better to you. ((((hugs))))
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henry says:
OX I will boink ya just for the hell of it. LOL but I do thank you for clarifying your post. I am just slow at getting the message sometimes. What you say makes perfect sense now. Nobody can understand or relate with us more than we here at LF can. BTW congrats on being a nonsmoker.. I got some chantix that I am going to try. Some of the side effects are – delusional – suicidal – confusion – insomnia – Hey sounds like a physcopath in a pill to me…
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OxDrover says:
Yea, I heard some about the pill, I am buying the nicotine lozenges and so far I really haven’t craved cigarettesl It is the nicotine I’m addicted to (can’t wear th e patches–they break me out, and this seems to be working. I buy the 4 mg and cut them in half *the 4 mg pack is the same price as the 2 mg so DUH!
Of course I am quitting smoking and trying to lose some weight, at the same time, DUH!so who knows, I may balloon onup to 300 pounds. LOL
Welbutrin is a drug that DOES HELP with the non smoking. I used that until Morgan got burned and then went back to smoking. I then got hypnotized and that lasted about a year until all the chaos with the Trojan horse and I back slid. So, this is it. I am goingto remain a non smoker from here on in. I’ve made up my minid this time.
Well, I need to go back to beed, I woke up at midnight (went to bed too early) and Darth Vadar *(my bi-pap sleep apnea machine ran out of water in the humidity tank and my mouth got dry and I woke up. See you gusy tomorrow. Love Oxy
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Spirit40 says:
Never fall in love with someones potential…….. boy do they even have potential or is it just magical thinking…….Someone posted you just let go that moment comes and you just have to let go…I loved someone that did not exist.
Now the cookie crumbled and I am the one on clean up duty.
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kim frederick says:
Yea, and the glass of milk I dunked it in got spilled, too. Double clean up duty. But I think the chocolate chips were really shit, and the milk was sour……so I’m grateful for the crumble and spill…………………….:)
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style1 says:
Spirit 40.. this is totally dead on correct.. when they enter selling you on what’s going to be someday.. RUN! Unless, you are in your 20′s and still in college…
I realized that the image that he projected of what his life was going to be like once this or that happened became a major part of his sell and he was good at the spin.. and when nothing that he talked about occurred in a year.. I saw clearly that his spin was a part of my attraction for him and I didn’t like living in his fantasy land…it was making me feel sick inside… and this man was 57.. his life was what it was and it was not pretty nor anything in it good for me.. so he needed his hopes to carry on and to attract a woman.. there is maybe a 1 percent chance that anything that he talked about would actually occur.. Living on hopes and dreams and in delusions of granduer makes a healthy person feel sick..
and when I would talk to him about reality, he would tell me that I was bringing him down and that I am negative..
He lived in la la land and drug me reluntantly into it for a bit..
A man is who he is and has what he has when you meet him.. sure life changes… but you can’t love an illusion.. I tried to love an illusion and kudos to me because I couldn’t.. I have never felt more stressed and uncomfortable.. his touch felt like claws..I never really bought it.. but still he was in my life for while… and now, I know more what to look for and what is fake and what I do not want…
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OxDrover says:
Dear Spirit,
Yea, caffiine is also a drug, and my sons and I were drinking WAAAAY too much coffee, but I do know with caffine NOT to go cold turkey—the GRANDMOTHER OF ALL HEADACHES—but we bought decaf coffee and mixed with our regular coffee and cut WAAAAAY Back.
Caffine in excess can contribute to depression, insomnia, and other problems. A whole lbunch of stuff that makes you feel crappy. So, we have cut our caffine intake by 3/4 and are already feeling better.
I get a reasonable amount of exercise walking and working around the farm, so I’m not a couch potato by any means. I’m just going to watch my food intake and see what happens and cut that again if I must.
Anything good we do for ourselves, increase exercise (which, BTW helps decrease depression and burn off stress hormones) is a good thing. Also regular medical check ups (I’m going again Thursday to the doc) etc. is a good thing as well.
BE GOOD TO YOURSELF.
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style1 says:
magical thinking, irrational optimism… yes.. I see it soooo clearly now… I saw it all along but whoa! Now, that I am away from him.. and the longer that I am away… I see … and wonder….WHY WAS I EVER WITH THIS MAN?
Because he came after me, he sold me, he complimented me, he fit into my life anyway that he could to win me.. I was his target.. and it felt horrible on most levels.. and I knew instinctively what he was… but his charimatic charming, manipulative ways threw me off my center for a bit.. it makes me sick when I think back.. those gut instincts are there for a reason…I negated myself and believed his spin… NEVER AGAIN!
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