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Your reality is what you see

Friday, 13 November 2009 @ 11:36am • My Weblog

By Ox Drover

My best friend has been visiting me and, as usual, when we get together we re-share “old stories” of “remember the time when so-and-so did such-and-such and how we laughed?”

One of those stories was a funny one about a small quarrel I had with my late husband. After relating the story, I had one of those “ah ha!” moments that applies to a lot of things in life.

My husband had a partial plate that was almost impossible for the dentist to get seated so that it did not “flop” and my husband used some of that pink goop that you put under a dental plate to keep it glued down. Every evening when he would get ready for bed, he would go into our bathroom, take the plate out, scrape the goop off, clean it, re-goop it, and then replace it into his mouth.

The pink goop, while wet, was the consistency of chewing gum, but when it dried on the sink, it became the consistency of concrete and I had to practically chisel it out to clean the sink. I offhandedly asked him if he would be sure he cleaned it out well before he went to bed and he assured me he would do so. I saw absolutely no improvement when I went to clean the sink the next time and I became irritated.

I asked him again to please make sure he got it ALL when he cleaned the sink and he assured me he would. Again, when I noticed that there was still no improvement, and now quite irritated, I started to nag him about how inconsiderate he was to make me have to chisel this stuff out of the sink, when it would be so simple for him to wipe it out when it was still moist.

He patiently listened to my tirade then said, “Honey, I am trying, but because it is pink, and I am color blind I can’t see it!”

Well, you can only imagine how small and awful I felt. About one inch high! Of course I knew he was partly color blind, so I should have known he couldn’t see it! His “reality” was not the same as “my reality” because we looked at the same sink and saw different things.

Blind to emotion

After thinking about this story in more detail and more depth, I think that the psychopath is maybe not “color” blind, but they are “blind to emotions” that we can see. Because we can see those things so clearly, we try to explain to them what we think is obvious, and “right before your eyes.” However, just as my husband could look at the sink and only see the “clean white” sink, and I could see the pink globs turning to concrete “right before my eyes,” our misunderstanding was because of the “different reality” that each of us saw.

A psychopath, who is unable to comprehend the “emotions” that go with words like “love” and “caring,” might think. “We are having sex, sex feels good, therefore, I love her. But because sex feels good with others as well, I don’t know why she gets so upset when I have sex with someone else. ”

We would think, though, because our “vision” is different, “we are having sex and the sex is good because we love and care about each other. Because we love each other, we will treat each other well. Treating each other well means we will not purposely do things that hurt the other one.”

My irritation with my husband was because I could see the pink blobs plainly, and I assumed that he could see them as well, and thought he was refusing to wipe them out. In fact, he was making an effort to wipe out the sink, but because he could not perceive them, he had no idea when they were gone, and his only “reality” was that the sink looked clean to him.

Family and friends

I also think this same “reality is what you see” can be applied to our friends and family members who “don’t see” what we see in the psychopath. There is a common thread among victims that “my friends don’t understand what I have been through” and “my friends don’t believe me that he is evil.”

Our friends and family members who “don’t get it” don’t see the same “reality” that we see. They are unable to draw the same conclusions that we draw, and therefore it is difficult for them to believe the same things about the psychopath that we believe. We can see things about the psychopath that they can’t see, just as I could see the pink globs and my husband couldn’t. Our realities were not the same. We didn’t see the same thing, even though we looked at the same thing.

Sometimes though we can see clearly the toxicity of the psychopath, our friends may not. They are sometimes “color blind” to the ability of a psychopath to be the way they can be. They are unable to see, to perceive, what we so clearly see as truth. These people cannot validate our vision, and they didn’t even have a way to know that their vision is defective, like my husband did. He knew he was color blind and couldn’t see certain colors, and because he believed I was honest and had good color vision, he took my word for the fact that the pink goop was there. Unfortunately, most of our friends and family are not aware that their vision is “blind” in this sort of situation. Just as the person who is color blind doesn’t know what color looks like, the person who has never personally experienced the true vision of a psychopath, has difficulty seeing this vision, even when it is before their very face.

We aren’t crazy (though sometimes others think we are!) our vision is REAL and our vision is VALID, and so is theirs, as far as they are concerned. I know it frustrated me for people about whom I cared and thought cared about me, could not “see” what I so clearly saw where my egg donor or my psychopathic son were concerned. I now realize these people cannot see what I see, cannot accept what I have finally so painfully accepted. Realizing that these people are blind in this sphere makes it easier for me to accept that they can’t “see” and can’t “get it.” Just as I had to accept that my husband was doing the best he could to clean the pink goop off the sink, but his vision prohibited him seeing it, I have to accept that those people who have a “blind spot” where psychopaths are concerned are doing the best they can with the somewhat “limited” vision that they are capable of. I also realize that my own vision was somewhat “limited” before the “scales fell from my eyes” and I could truly see the psychopaths.

My vision is my reality. The vision of others is their reality. Maybe those things will never be the same, but it doesn’t mean my reality is not valid. It also doesn’t mean that they are purposely doubting me, it just means that their vision is not the same as mine.

Just like the mythical “vampire” doesn’t show up in a mirror, psychopaths, don’t always appear in their true form in the vision of those who behold them. Just like the soiled sink with its pink globs appeared perfectly clean to my husband, with his limited color vision, psychopaths appear “perfectly normal” to those who do not have the sphere of vision capable of “seeing” them for what they truly are.

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written by Donna Andersen • Permalink •

Cat says:

This truly resonates with me. I have an ex P who has skillfully manuevered my own family into getting him out of jail for stealing MY debit card to buy drugs. They no longer speak to me at this point because of what he’s told them/done to them. I understand, however, this is their vision, their reality. I can only trust that with time, that will change. This one is good, really good. He went from being a petty criminal to being a victim of MY anger to being the “altar boy” in their eyes. Go figure. I am only happy that I see through it all. One can only pray for these people and hope they are not too badly taken in the end. I know I tried to tell them and was accused of being a liar.
Thank you for writing this.

(Report abusive comment)

Friday, 13 November 2009 @ 3:09pm

OxDrover says:

Dear Cat,

I had to laugh, although at the time I was NOT laughing, when I was the ONLY ONE in the whole situation who was NOT lying and I was accused of being the liar before they could swallow the lies in their own mouths!

I hope that your family does get out of the FOG, but they may not. That is part of the damage that they do to us is the smear campaign that they paint so eloquently sometimes that it becomes the “reality” because they said it even if it is NOT true, not even close.

It hurts when people we love and thought loved us turn their backs on us because of the P’s lies. Sometimes those people will discard us at the urging of the P, and sometimes we must go NC with them as well as the P.

Learning to VALIDATE our own REALITY is I think one of the most difficult things I have done. And finally realizing that just because THEY don’t see it, doesn’t mean it is not TRUE.

What you see is REAL, Cat. They are emotionally blind. And as frustrating as it is for us, we have to not let that make us hate them, or feel like we are crazy—we just have to keep on plugging away doing what we know is OUR REALITY. (((hugs)))) and God bless

Friday, 13 November 2009 @ 3:31pm

Dear Ox,
Thank YOU for the validation. It’s nice to see I’m not the only one, though I would wish this on no one. I have evidence in black and white on this person and what he has done. I’m the one that was accused of stirring up such a family mess! I told my parents when they accepted that first call from the jail that the manipulation would begin and so it did and now it’s all a mess. I even had to let this person back into MY home, which he doesn’t pay for, due to legal technicalities.
I am laughing, yet NOT laughing now because he has convinced my parents I am in love with him and just can’t see it and that he loves me. He uses our son as an excuse for us to “work it out”. He is angry because I caught on. This is all about revenge. He doesn’t resort to physical abuse. It’s all mental.
My main concern is our 10 yr. old son and I am watching him play with his mind as well.
My only hope is to get both of us out of here and to a place where he knows nothing about. That’s MY reality for today.
God Bless you as well…

Friday, 13 November 2009 @ 3:51pm

CAmom says:

Oh, the smear campaigns…I used to wonder why my ex never invited me to Chicago to meet his sister & her husband…then when I finally did meet them at a funeral, I didn’t understand why they completely ignored me.

I later found out the whole time he was telling me how much he loved me, how I was his soul mate, blah blah blah he was telling them I was “disturbed, a gold digger, pathetic, labile…”

He later said they believed he always chose women who needed help & he was just too naive & gullible…geesh. I was wife #4, #2 was a psychiatrist & the breadwinner who funded his PhD. By the time he was finished with her–used her up financially and in every other way, she’d had a nervous breakdown and was working as a candy striper. From a fully functioning MD to a candy striper…he used to tell me this and shake his head, saying “I thought (__) was so normal, but look at her. All she can do is be a volunteer candy striper.”

Wife #1 ended up severely depressed & agoraphobic when he left her. “I thought she was so together, but…”

Wife #3 was a therapist. She was the only one who managed to stay afloat after their relationship ended. Somehow. He left her a bit of a mess though. She was in therapy for a few years.

He told me dozens of times that he somehow always managed to pick narcissists for wives and figured it was because he was such a “giver” they took advantage of him.

Reality? He cleaned out all joint bank accounts and then left every one of them. He justified this by saying, “the marriage was already over in my mind.” The wives didn’t know the marriage was over in “his mind.” He was still living with them and playing husband while searching for a house to buy, another city to live in, having sex with new women (and men).

So, me. #4. I left him but still kept contact for a while. I went back to him once after he swore he’d stop with the control stuff, the porn, the gay stuff, the bad-mouthing me. And of course how much he needed me, loved me, wanted me. Once I returned, he was worse than ever. I eventually got out but spent a few years pretty wrecked, physically and emotionally.

Before the S I had a life I loved. I was happy. The S was icing on the cake. Until he ate the cake, stomped all over me and did his best to destroy what was left of me.

His family, being so far away and not ever knowing me or even talking to me, believed every word he said. The other wives never met his family either, and must have wondered why…it’s kinda obvious he couldn’t let his family meet the wives as they might see for themselves that they weren’t pathetic, wounded narcissists who were unable to survive on their own~~and that he wasn’t being abused and having to cater to them, that he wasn’t really co-dependent, a giver, and helpless to do more for them–because, too late, he realized they were all narcissists. So he told them his reality, assuming he believed all of this and I think he does. He sees himself as the victim, and so does his family.

Oh the irony.

While we were married he adopted a public persona of a giving, kind husband. In private it was completely different.
If I pointed out some bad behaviour he claimed it wasn’t really him, but a sub-personality he called “Sam.” And that he wasn’t responsible for anything “Sam” did. Interesting twist. And sounds as if he was crazy, or had DID. But no, just a way of making me crazy…gaslighting. OK, so YOU didn’t just choke me and call me names…it was Sam? YOU didn’t stay up all night on meth, it was Sam?

Uh, yes, in his mind Sam was a part of himself he had introjected from his father. (remember this guy has a PhD in clinical psychology so had a toolbox full of stuff he could use and somehow make sound reasonable)

Now I can laugh about “Sam” but at the time it was chilling.
And very confusing. The real him was, he claimed, a giving person…(who walks around the house saying out loud, “I’m such a giver” apropos of nothing? In no context, saying it as one might say, “where did I leave my keys?” or “it’s really cold today”…he’d walk around saying “I’m such a giver” like some sort of mantra. Bizarre.)

He equated giving with talking…so would keep me up for hours talking and talking (the meth helped I’m sure) and if I showed signs of sleepiness, he’d yell “you’re such a narcissist” for not being able to stay awake and fully alert while he was “giving.”

Reality. What a disconnect between his reality and mine. And what his family believes and what is true. They have no idea.

Now he’s in Florida looking for a wife…he’ll tell her she is special, unique, like no other woman he’s ever known…and then when he feels he has her (marries her) will destroy her.
I just hope he never finds her…that the red flags will stop anyone from getting involved with him.

He has no conscience. He told me in grad school he had a kitten he was trying to train to stay out of his way, so he’d put his full weight on her (step on her) to “teach” her to move…well, he killed her and threw her in the trash. Kind of a metaphor for what he does to women.

Friday, 13 November 2009 @ 4:59pm

jillsmith says:

Wow, CAmom, I can so relate to you on some levels and I’m so sorry for what you went through. My ex-husband (the P) and your ex sound the same. He has his PhD too and it’s not a good combination for Ps. The power trip thing makes them more dangerous, IMO. Thanks for sharing.

Friday, 13 November 2009 @ 5:01pm

Donna Andersen says:

CAmom,

What a terrible experience! I’m so glad you are out of that relationship.

Was this guy a practicing psychologist?

Friday, 13 November 2009 @ 5:09pm

to innocent to know says:

Reading the post at LoveFraud, have helped me so much over the last few months, I want to thank you all for your posts

Friday, 13 November 2009 @ 5:10pm

It took me awhile to see what he was doing to me. I started to see things were not right with him and went on the internet and looked under philandering. We were not married, but he wanted me to move in with him, so I did. We were together for 3 and a half years. He asked me to marry him and I said yes thinking he was the “ONE”. I had just come off a bad 29 year marriage. After 8 months of being engaged, I broke the engagement off off with but we still lived together. In 2 weeks he was meeting another woman, still sleeping with me and keeping her a secret. He allowed me to read his e-mails and I noticed one from this woman. I didn’t really think anything of it at the time but was curious. We made up and still he kept in touch with her. I found out he likes to keep every woman he’s ever been with as friends. Brags about it even to his brother. I just dumped him in July and he was already hitting on his new victim before I broke it off. He is now engaged to her and she has NO IDEA what he is about. He threaten and tried to commit suicide, is addicted to prescription drugs and overdoses, he goes through cycles it seems. Like when he gets to close to someone it triggers it off. I have been reading a lot of books on sociopaths and Borderline Disorder. They fit him like they were written just about him. I kept trying to figure out what was wrong with him, and wondering if I was the crazy one? My kids certainly thought I had lost my mind, I wouldn’t listen to anyone. He lives in his own reality, his own idea of how things are, for one thing I am certain, he does not love anyone, not even himself.

Friday, 13 November 2009 @ 5:26pm

Dear Too innocent to know,

I’m glad you are here and glad that you are away from HIM. I;’m also glad that LF has helped you, it I think saved my sanity if not my life.

CA mom, a nightmare for sure. Sorry you had to go through so much chit. Maybe you and teh x-wives and X GF can have a convention, I’ll see if you can rent the ASTRODOME! It might hold the crowd! I’m sure if we got 2-3 of us together with our X’s exes it wouldn’t hold the crowd! Maybe we could throw rotten cabbages at them for a “half time show” LOL

Friday, 13 November 2009 @ 5:48pm

To camom and too innocent-WOW, I’m pretty sure our ex’s must keep in touch! I experienced the women(and men), questioned my own sanity, went through depressive episodes, the whole 9 yrds. In the end, as I’ve written to Ox, I am free by seeing the reality of it all. I took off my ex’s glasses and finally put my own on. I think that’s the best way I can describe it. It was such a relief to have my mind back. I think this site is exceptional in that I’ve learned so much here already. I truly like it here!
I’m so sorry that you had to go through all that has happened, but you aren’t alone. Not anymore.
Cat

Friday, 13 November 2009 @ 6:20pm

Elizabeth Conley says:

I just had a lovely chat with a very nice man who is still a member of the same martial arts organization I was part of. He tried to engage me in a conversation about his personal frustrations with the behavior of the organization’s Narcissist, and I declined.

He’s such a nice man. Really and truly. He just doesn’t see it. He doesn’t know why the organization is so unstable. The organization has just been kicked out of its previous facility due to the behavior of the narcissist and his family. Of course, the rank and file within the organization don’t know this.

I can’t be the one to tell him. If I tell him what’s wrong, he’ll think I’m “bad mouthing” the organization’s sainted leadership. I have to smile and nod, and make small talk. He’s such a lovely person. I hate to see him get hurt, as countless other decent people have been. Unfortunately, I can’t make him see what’s right under his nose. He’s got to see it for himself.

Friday, 13 November 2009 @ 6:24pm

slimone says:

Wow Oxy,

This is a wonderful post. I just ate it up. I really appreciate how you made the link between something so ordinary (a little spat/misperception between healthy partners) and the subject of truly understanding Pism. This, for me, makes it so much more real and helps me to ‘hold onto’ the learning. Thank-you!

Hello to the newcomers (CA, Cat, and Too innocent). This is a wonderful healing place. As always I am so bummed to hear about the exploits of these nutbags. But I am glad you have found your way to this site. It really is the best site I have found for support, real education, and rational thought. Welcome

Elizabeth: I so get this. I have had to keep my mouth shut a few times. And, I think it is a good way to go, unless you KNOW, for sure, that the other person is already getting it, and really wants more awareness. I hope this nice man doesn’t get ‘bit’ by this N vampire.

Friday, 13 November 2009 @ 6:36pm

Dear slimone, glad you liked it.

Friday, 13 November 2009 @ 8:25pm

henry says:

Good article Oxy I think ? – Colorblindness is a disability in a way. So you forgave your husband and understood his way of seeing things. So the P’s live in their reality, their disability? We have to accept they are flawed? Dont hold them responsible? This just sum’s it up – it’s unfair – I would rather do the tango with somethin real..there’s no justice..can’t get even…talking to them is a total waste of time… it’s like talking to a parrot – frustrating isnt the word I am looking for here…..

Friday, 13 November 2009 @ 8:59pm

welcome Cat – Those glasses you put back on? That was your identity. They take your indentity and make it their own and you feel lost. Glad you put your identity back on – he will go find another one.

Friday, 13 November 2009 @ 9:04pm

pollyannanomore says:

Great Post Donna – thankyou – I love when you get those lightbulb moments and can see a theme emerge that you can link to other situations to delineate understanding. Thankyou for sharing that very clear one with us.

Welcome to the new people. This is a marvellous place for reading and getting and giving support + healing in short . As you can see the writers here are highly educated, rational, intelligent and empathic women and men who don’t just depend on research but share insights from their own experience to help those of us “Newly diagnosed (? Those of us who are only recently learning about psychopathy / personality disorders) understand our own experience. You can do reading and research on your own but you will got more from reading regularly here. As the blog has several posters you can read updated posting frequently.

Sorry to all of you for what you have gone through. It’s not fair. It sucks. Just try to feel a little happy though that YOU are the NORMAL one – it hurts because YOU HAVE NORMAL EMOTIONS. The person in your life hurting you doesn’t and will never have them. That is some small consolation to me in tough times!

CA Mom – woah – what a story! Destroyed FOUR women and two of them mental health professionals. Oh my goodness. It terrifies me to consider the power and credit it will give them to have Phd – that is scary but of course mental health tests are not required to get one. Wow

JillSmith you are spot on – that is too much power – imagine the delight they might have one day in torturing a graduate research student over several years! Eeek!

Cat ——– just unbelievable – that must hurt so much your family taking his side. My grandma took the side of a highly dysfunctional bfriend many years ago and I cut her out of my life for over a decade for it. We are on thin ice these days – I couldn’t believe she would take the side of someone she had met once over her own flesh and blood. UNbelievable – he was a total ratbag too. Not a patch on your situation of course but family betrayal has a different flavour to most varieties.

Oxy – you are awesome – you give consistent warm and loving welcomes to people who badly need it. I was reading through the archives the other day and saw your name as well as Slimone and Elizabeth Conley welcoming newcomers and caring for people’s situation. Just wanted to give a shout out to you all for doing that. There’s a long history stretching back – people who come to this site are pretty battered and bruised – your tender care matters

Friday, 13 November 2009 @ 9:39pm

Oooops sorry = Great post OXY!!! Sorry sorry sorry – I have just read four archived ones from Donna – that is why I think I typed it. Sorry again!

Friday, 13 November 2009 @ 9:52pm

Twice Betrayed says:

CAmom: Yeah, the hard part is realizing and coming to terms with the fact they are out to destroy us. They have a different face for everyone they meet. They love to add people to their ‘charm bracelets’. Their collectables are people.

Saturday, 14 November 2009 @ 12:50am

Oh yeah, BTW….my first PX has now been married five times[is alone now...#5 walked] and my second [and last] PX has been married four times now. I was #3 for him. These people love to ‘marry’ and it means nothing to them. Always looking for the next con.

Saturday, 14 November 2009 @ 12:59am

I looked at my X’s address book one time and by some of the names there was a $ sign. Males and females – his family members didnt have a $ sign. I was never added to his little black book..

Saturday, 14 November 2009 @ 1:24am

Isabell says:

Oxy,

Hello, dear one. Fabulous post. Absolutely right on the mark. They are blind to emotions. I suppose one could say that the vision of emotion is empathy and/or compassion; to feel what another feels. They are handicapped this way.

Even so…their handicap is not the kind you run to offer assistance. In fact, it’s more like…”Do not stand in the path of a man beating himself up.”

Saturday, 14 November 2009 @ 2:48am

Hello to all & thank you for the welcome~~

Donna: Yes, he was a practicing clinical psychologist and taught psych at the university. He’s retired & I don’t think he sees clients any more. I hope not.

Pollyannanomore: The knowledge he acquired to get his degree in psych was used to manipulate and he was excellent at it. I had psych 1 in college long before I met him and had no idea what was happening to me. He was both a Psychologist and a Professor so I gave him total credit–if he said x was normal, I believed x was indeed normal.

Jill: Those damn PhDs! Gotta remind myself that while it takes a lot of work to get one, it doesn’t make anyone omnipotent. I dropped out of college my jr. year~so a PhD was like, wow…and in Psych! He could quote Freud in his sleep, if he ever slept that is. (hard to do when you’re strung out on meth!)

Ox: I’ve thought of forming a “Dr. (__)’s survivor’s group.” Only 2 of us are on the same coast; the 1st 2 are on the east coast, the last 2 on the west. But I would love to hear their stories & think we could help each other, along with sticking pins in little voodoo dolls…; )

Twice: Yes! “charm bracelets” is a great way to put it. And I so relate to marriage meaning nothing to them…he said his first 3 meant nothing, really, as divorce was always an option. That he always “hoped” the marriage would “take.” Of course he said I was different…ha! He’s looking for #5 now.

And it is very hard to realize there are people who are out to destroy us. I think for him (and my sister–also a S) it’s fun.

Both my ex and my sister have a low tolerance for boredom and I think at times just do stuff to watch how others react. I felt like a specimen under a microscope if that makes sense? Like, let’s see what happens if we poke her here, or pour some stain on her here…

my sister caused a huge international drama just because she could…it was all b.s. but put her back in the spotlight. The ex would call me sobbing (after I moved out) and then hang up. I’d call back–no answer or busy…and I’d drive to his house, scared. He’d be fine, drinking coffee on the terrace with a (fake) perplexed look on his face. After the 2nd time I never reacted. But he knew I *would* drive over in a panic as my dad had been suicidal when I was 21 & call sobbing & I would drive over to his house and find him drunk and holding a loaded pistol. I had told my ex that story & how traumatizing it was, so he just repeated it. How easy for him…

In the horse world the saying is, “whoever moves their feet first loses.” I have a horse & try and make sure *she* moves her feet (hooves) first. It’s about power struggles & horses can test us by crowding our space. In the ex’s case, and my sister’s, they like to make us move first, pull the strings and watch the reaction. Sorta like entertainment I guess.

Cat: I love the putting on your own glasses analogy…yes.
I really wish I had found this wonderful group when I was living through the nightmare but am so grateful you are here. And sorry you are here as well.

Saturday, 14 November 2009 @ 3:01am

Reading all your posts helps so much, so much of it I have gone through also. Some things not as bad as some of yurs, but still the same concept. I never really saw the violent side of him, I guess he got smarter as he got older. He sure does the manipulation and controlling thing though. It’s like one day my rose colored glasses fell off and I saw the real him. I found a book “Boomerang Love” by Lynn Melville, it has helped me soooo much, every time I find myself slipping back, I pull it out and remind myself what he is all about. You are all right, the hardest part was accepting that he really didn’t love me and that I wasted 3 1/2 years on someone like him. My kids keep saying, they tried to tell me. lol 2 years ago when I first started feeling like there was something really wrong with him, and I began my search for the name of my pain, once you know how and what your dealing with and you finally realize it’s not going to change, ever, you can begin to move on. It still hurts like nothing I’ve ever been through before, but I’m healing. I now know I have not been alone in going through this. I have also read” The Sociopath Next Door” Great book!!!! I’ve only ever been in the 2 relationship, my ex-husband, who by the way also got hit with lightening (made him a real looney) and my ex BF. Between them I have learned a lot about Mental Illness. You guys are a great support group!!! I’ve been reading your posts for over a year now, I don’t know why I didn’t join in before. Denial I guess, lol

Saturday, 14 November 2009 @ 7:26am

your right CA, it is sad that anyone has to be here, but it’s so nice to know we are not alone!

Saturday, 14 November 2009 @ 7:28am

anymore that is, lol

nic says:

Lovefraud-I am struggling right now. What is wrong with me? I called my ex late last night/early morning trying to see if he would come over. I think it was God’s way for him not to come. If he would have come I think I would be sitting here even more depressed.

Why did I call him? I am disturbed…lol. All of the things he has done to me. Why would I still want to be around him? He has hurt me ever since I met him in 2003. I am finally divorced from him. He hasn’t come to see his child in 4 weeks but I called him to come and see me.

I don’t know what to do. I have a problem. He is toxic, evil, etc. What does that say about me? I have to move on with my life. I haven’t slept with him since Feb. 2009 even though there has been numerous opportunities. It is so hard. I am scared to date again so I have not been with anyone but him for 6 years.

Any advice or wise words would be so helpful.

Saturday, 14 November 2009 @ 9:28am

Henry, darlilng, you missed the point, NO, I DO hold the Ps RESPONSIBLE for their “disabiility,” it is the peopole who know them but don’t know what they are that I try not to hold responsible because THEY are the blilnd ones. They are blind to what the P is and therefore they have trouble validating our point of view. They can’t SEE for example that my egg donor is not the pious little old lady she pretends to be any more than my husband could see the pinik goop.

I could stand there and scream “there it is, can’t you see it stupid?” till hell froze over and he still could not have seen it. It is the same way with the people the P has fooled, no matter how much you tell them what the P has done, what the P IS, they look and CANNOT SEE IT.

Jesus said “they have ears to hear and cannot hear, eyes and cannot see” (paraphrased) and I think it is the same. The DUPEs are BLIND and the Ps REFUSE to see, but the MOTIVE is different.

My husband was TRYING to see, but couldn’t. The Ps REFUSE TO SEE and the DUPEs are also BLIND so just different motives.

We get frustrated at our friends and other people who can’t see how bad the P is, but I think they TRY to see but are just BLIND because of the P’s lies.

I know I have been blind to other;’s warnings and deaf too for that matter when other folks warned me about some of my P relationships until I finally got my senses back and then realized the warning was RIGHT!

Maybe the P s have some magical power that renders us deaf and blind around them for a while—I think that is in the love bomb stage. LOL

Saturday, 14 November 2009 @ 9:29am

Dear Nic,

I think we were posting over each other. Sweetie, you are feeling the normal phase of wanting him back. you KNOW the truth, he is TOXIC but now that the divorce is over you are starting to question yourself again and to feel lonely.

I’m glad he is losing interest in your child. My gosh I remember how he used to use your baby as a weapon to slap you with.

I am glad he did not come, but NC is the only way to stay on that road to healing, and I know you know that. I am NOT going to boink you for calling him, because you are beating yourself up enough for that, but I do want you to stop beating yourself up over this and just tell yourself that you slipped, just like an alcholic falls off the wagon and has a drink sometimes, but you, just like them, have to pick yourself up, brush yourself off and say, I made a slip yesterday, but today is a better day.

I know your story and I know what a creepy jerk your X is and I am really GLAD he is losing interest in your child. He was only using your child lto hurt you and doesn’t care about the baby. That final acceptance stage where you are getting to the point that you can EMOTIONALLY accept all of this is coming closser and closer, so this is a good thing.

I remember when I had my hysterectomy done, I did NOT want more children at that time, but afterwards when I no longer had a choice, I would CRY when I saw a preg woman on the street. If that makes any sense. I actually grieved over the loss of the possibility I might want kids later and then had no choice.

So this final step I think is a good place for you to be. It is painful, but it will pass. Honey, you are FREE of him.

Don’t worry about not wanting to date, you need some time to YOURSELF to get further along with your healing before you even think about dating. IN a vulnerable state right now, it would be easier for another P to target you, get your feet firmly back under you, your emotions stable and then you find a REALLY NICE man, a responsible, caring man, not a “mr. Bad boy” to love you and your baby! (((hugs))))

Saturday, 14 November 2009 @ 9:38am

lostingrief says:

nic…
go easy on yourself. you’re still under his evil spell, is all.
it’s not easy to get them out from under your skin, that’s for sure! they stick in there like an oil spill to rocks. you have to clean every nook and cranny.
perhaps you aren’t really in touch with your anger over how he treated you. you’re thinking of good times, of what may have been, of what he pretended to be. getting over the s/p/n in my life was about realizing how incredibly sick he is; not just evil, but truly mentally sick … demonic … manipulative to the core. while there are STILL times when i wish he was here with me, curled up on the bed watching TV, or being intimate, or laughing over an inside joke at the dinner table, i have to remember that it was ALL a lie. the jokes, sex, mellow moments were just more manipulation to make me believe: 1) that he was normal 2) that he loved me 3) that i could count on him to be there for me. Lie, Lie. Lie.
if they loved us, they wouldn’t treat us so horribly. if they were normal, they wouldn’t do such outrageously agregious things. if they could be counted on — for ANYTHING — we wouldn’t have felt like we were walking on egg shells waiting for the next shoe to drop!
it helps to get to the abject hatred phase! when i think of him now, it’s 90% rage. i despise him, loathe him. slimy cretan that he is. i’m lonely and sad, but that’s far better than letting him have one more moment of the love and warmth i have to give.
you called him because you still believe, on some level, that he is what he pretended to be. it takes a while to realize that — yes, he was that good a fake.
perhaps your child is better off without him, as you are. as for dating, it will feel right for you at some point. maybe you could become closer to your own Self. heal and breathe and find joy in little things and the peace that comes with being without a s/p/n.
the bad man in my life was the only one i was with for the past 16 years. i’m not dating either. don’t know if i ever will again. just taking it day by day, figuring out why on earth i fell for those obvious lies for so many years.
be good to yourself. and your baby. ((((NIC))))

Saturday, 14 November 2009 @ 9:47am

Easy says:

If a Blind person has more tuned sences of smell , hearing , touch , taste . Does it not follow that a persons development however nature or nurture , with the handicap of no concience , no worth! percieved. That these peoples brain adapts to survival instinct! They seem to have a 7th sence to read others more acutely and use it against us! Does that make sence? I also think that this can be learned by us , it is just not a necessarly dominant way to deal with life for those who have a normal concience!

Saturday, 14 November 2009 @ 9:52am

kim frederick says:

Easy, that’s a very interesting analogy. Food for thought.

Saturday, 14 November 2009 @ 9:59am

Ox, thanks for not boinking me..lol. It feels good to hear this from you again. I feel that I keep posting the same stuff and that everyone is tired of reading it. I know I do so well when there is nc. We were in nc for 4 weeks and it was great. I hate to admit but I am glad he is losing interest also. That made perfect sense about crying when you would see a pregnant woman.

lostin grief, yes I am under his evil spell. When I think of all of the things he has done I am enraged but then I just forget about it. Hopefully I can get to that 90% and then 100%.

I try to tell myself that he doesn’t deserve my love, time, or energy and that he should be grateful to be in my presence. That doesn’t always work for me though. Thanks again. I feel much better.

Saturday, 14 November 2009 @ 10:27am

Rosa says:

There’s so much truth in this article.
And, when you try to point out what you see verses what someone else may be seeing, you often get persecuted.
It’s “kill the messenger” time.

My brother did it to me so many times over the last 5 years when I would point things out about his wife. He would literally blow up.
He doesn’t do it anymore, though.
We are actually closer than ever, and that gives me HOPE in spite of the current situation.
Because we all know how psychopaths love to split their victims off from their family and friends.
But, I guess those angry episodes from him (and the smear campaign from the ex-BF) toughened me up a bit, and I have a thicker skin than I realized.
I don’t see that as a bad thing, either.
You are going to need a thick skin to get through this life.

I think the greater the EMOTIONAL INVESTMENT one has in the psychopath, the more BLIND they will be.

Psychopaths are counting on this.
I believe they are most dangerous when they are able to make emotional inroads, and gain some “credibility” within a group of people.

Saturday, 14 November 2009 @ 10:47am

nic: for months i visualized his ‘hold’ over me as oil on a beach, and i visualized every cell of my body being washed clean. over time, it really did work.
sometimes i wish he would call me up and say that i was the only one, he should have never hurt me, we should be together forever, but i know that will never happen. while he is out from under my skin, my heart still ‘wishes’ for what i thought we had for soooo many years. to think it was all a lie hurts so deeply.
he leaves a trail of destruction in every life he touches, and i saw that for years, but never believed he would do it to me.
no one is special in their lives. just means to some end.
nic, you’re right, he doesn’t deserve your love, time or energy. he deserves to be left to his own evil devices … which will all catch up with him in the end. just make sure you’re not around when it does, because he’ll most likely latch on to whomever is closest and can pick up the wretched pieces of his sick life. don’t let it be you, my dear.
towanda!!

Saturday, 14 November 2009 @ 10:50am

Yep, honey, it will take while to get the poison out of your system, and I know you can do it! I KNOW that! Keep in mind, you are like an addict, knowing that coke is bad for you, but rememberring the “highs” and it is in a way an ADDICTION.

But you can start, one step at a time to build a LIFE for you and your baby, FREE OF DRAMA….he may come around every once in a while to pull your chain, using seeing the baby as an excuse, especially when he is “between” relationships or feels down, but you know that song and dance and you know the music that preceeds it, so don’t get involved.

Make a good life—now is a perfect time to sit down and think about what YOU want in life—what you want to DO—don’t include anyone else except your baby in that vision (YET) just think—I can do anything I want to now, and weat is it? Start a college class? Learn yoga? Whatever it is—it is for YOU. and you are free to make your own decisions, do your own thing and create a NEW and wonderful YOU! FREE OF THE P! (((hugs))))

Saturday, 14 November 2009 @ 11:23am

geminigirl says:

Dearest Oxy, I meant to come on before and thank you for all your help and loving support. Its now almost a year,{8th dec.,08.} since I last saw my daughter,and almost 5 months since I last spoke to her on the phone. As much as I know you and everyone else is right,re NC,Im still finding it bloody hard. Like you said, once one layer of the onion comes off, another,WORSE one is exposed,{in my case, a lot of anger, at myself mainly,}and terrible flashbacks of th e gaslighting, the lies, the fraud, the violence. I know Ill never get an apology from her, so Ill never have any closure. Im really no further on in undestanding how creatures like her can live with themselves. Maybe if I could believe shes just like a blind person, and really cant see what terrible things shes done, it would maybe make it easier for me to accept it, feel sorry for her that shes so disabled. But if I fall into the trap of feeling sorry for her,{again!} I know the next step will be for me to ring he up to see how shes doing. Then another sob story from her, more money being funnelled out of my bank account, and shes top dog and in control again.Even when I saw her school counsellor,in 1981, when she went from straight t As in every subject to failing most of them,{she deliberately ‘downed tools” to get to be a punk} , the counseller said to me,”When she falls on her face, guess whose face gets bruised? Yours.”And for 30 years, Ive been giving and giving, like a mug, getting nothing back{not money but any kind of love and niceness} I know now that Tough Love is the only thing that may save her.To pull the rug from under her, stop being a safety mattress between her and her rock bottom. When she eventually runs out of people, so called “friends” to suckerpunch, when her looks start to fade,when she gets sick, runs out of luck, jobs, good men,etc, then is when its a ll going to go pear shaped.Im 70 now and in reasonable health, I am blessed with a good man, and my loving adult “kids” from Iran. I have a lovely home, a nice life.
And yet, I still yearn fora normal loving relationship with my daughters,-AINT GONNA HAPPEN! The other daughter is worse,if anything. How completely ruthless do you have to be to completely cut your own Mother out of your life,for 17 years, and not let her see her kids? I dont think Ill ever get over this. I know people get over concentration camps, where they lost their entire families, and go on to build new lives. Honestly I feel like this. The pain never really goes away, but it turns into a dull ache. If I could STOP caring,and reach the “Nirvana of indifference,” that would be a good thing. But Im still suffering, every day. Ive long ago forgiven my ex, but these girls,-not girls any more but hard, scheming, lying, callous, cold, consciense less,bitches.Hopefully one day Ill get to a place when I can look back on my wee girls with pleasure, and let go of these horrible people. But Im not there yet, and it still hurts every day of my life.Thanks Oxy, you are my Oxygen!
I havehope that one day Ill get to where you are now., and the pain wont be as bad. Actually the pain gets worse, as the layers come off, and I really SEE what CRAP Ive allowed in my life, and how Ive allowed them to treat me this way . I guess I have to forgive myself, for “when you know better, you do better.” Thats so true. NO MORE!!!I should feel sorry for these heartless b–tchs ,at least Im human and real , I have a consciense, I have remorse, I have empathy,-they have NONE.But survival is kicking in now, I want to survive and have a good life with my loving husband. he doesnt deserve any more of this,he doesnt want any more to do with my daughters, he also has suffered at their hands,but his worst pain is seeing MY pain and being helpless to help me. He is GLAD Ive found this wonderful community of survives on LF, and often asks about Oxy. he enjoys hearing your pithy stories and reat metaphors, and humour!Ill sign of now, and thanks again Oxy for your loving words and good counsel. {{HUGS}} Gem.XX

Saturday, 14 November 2009 @ 11:24am

Well said lost

Saturday, 14 November 2009 @ 11:31am

Dear Gem,

The thing that keeps standing out to me in your posts is your “I can’t get over” and other SELF DEFEATING WORDS—-

You can’t change them, but you CAN change yourself. Your SELF TALK…

I know this may sound silling, but sit down and CHANT to yourself “I WILL and CAN get over this.” Or some other phrase that you make up that is POSITIVE SELF TALK.

You are DWELLING on the negative and we MUST DWELL ON THE POSITIVE.

Did you count your BLESSINGS as I suggested?

I know all these things sound so “silly” and “how could that help?” but they DO HELP!

I don’t know if you remember the children’s book “The little train that could”? It was a cute children’s book about trying hard and saying I CAN, and the little train pulled th eheavy load up the mountaion chanting “I think I can, I think I can, I can!”

We must tell ourselves that this is not the end of our lives.

You are not that much older than me, I will be 63 in less than a month. I’m also in reasonably good health, but I know one thing I have MUCH less endurance and strength than I did before all this crap which started with my husband’s death 5 and a half years ago. Before the two bouts with tick fever, and the months of inactivity and crying 24/7 and feeling unsafe. Feeling devalued.

Gem, I think it hurt as much or worse than my P-son when I realized my egg donor preferred HIM to my son C and me, and my adopted son isn’t even part of the “family” where she was concerned, but the TROJAN HORSE P j(no blood relationship) was a golden member of the family. LOL

Even now when we are NC with her, she still prefers to write the P and send him money rather than have living family members because she can’t control us. She must be in CONTROL, and she can BUY his cooperation and whatever she wants to hear from my P-son with money and C and I will not let her buy our “love” with money.

I know for a fact that giving them money, bailing them out, giving them presents doesn’t get you anything with a P. As you know too.

And dear Gem, you must and I mean MUST stop beating yourself about the head for being so stupid—you were not stupid, you were “in love” with your daughter and you wanted to do good for her, and you kept up the TOXIC hope just like I did. THAT DOES NOT MEAN WE ARE STUPID. OK? Got that?

Look at all the other SMART women here that have been rooky-doo’d by people they loved….I can’t find a single dumb member of this blog. So we are both, we are all, smart people who have fallen for a con by a psychopath or two. so what, we are smart enough to STOP beating up ourselves and to forgive ourselves and to MAKE GOOD LIVES FOR OURSELVES. Now you sit right down and count your blessing my sweet Gem, or I WILL get the SKILLET out for you! LOL ((((Hugs)))) and my prayers sweetie!

Saturday, 14 November 2009 @ 12:03pm

(((Ox)) and ((((lost)))

Saturday, 14 November 2009 @ 12:27pm

Yes, Henry, that’s exactly what I did. It’s difficult at times, as he is going MORE insane over this. I won’t give up ME, however. I don’t care how much poison he spreads or what he does. He’s lost control and I can see that very shortly, he will find someone else. I’m on to his games.
Someone mentioned bailing them out, paying, etc. These are some of the things I no longer due and refuse to do. Each action we take that makes a statement about our person freedom from someone like this is a HUGE step. I know I have many more to take. I am just so grateful I found this site and I am reading everything I can and soaking it up.
Gem…I have found the more anger I carry towards my ex P., the more personal power I give him. It’s hard work, but I refuse to give that to anyone. I do swing back and forth on this one yet, so I understand completely. BUT, personal power is sacred and we need to use it wisely.
Hugs,
Cat

Saturday, 14 November 2009 @ 1:56pm

So much wisdom here, I know what happened, how and why. But today I am digging up more trigger’s, even after so long a time of not seeing him the things I planted outside when he was here are reminders, like red flag bushes blowing in the wind.. He was like my shadow at first, followed me around and helped me do this, plant that. Of course that soon changed and I spent most of my time outdoors wishing he would get off the puter and come out and enjoy the day with me. Well back outside digging up and discarding memories. I just feel really worthless today, like nobody would really love me for real.

Saturday, 14 November 2009 @ 2:49pm

Everytime I go to the mailbox I still look for a card, a letter a note anything to make it real. I am so tired of pretending I dont love him. I hope I dont take this regret to my grave, that would be so fucked up.

Saturday, 14 November 2009 @ 3:05pm

ErinBrock says:

Henry:
It is a long road. I’m sorry your feeling triggered by all of the beautiful things in your garden. Allow the flowers to drop the blooms and spring to renew a ‘new’ garden……in your mind, heart and soul.
As unfortunate as my story turned out…..him not being the healthy father I wanted for my children…..not having ‘closure’ of sorts…..Looking back, I am really glad I followed through with the TPO’s, it has allowed us to keep a distance from the constant emotional barage of crap he would have, no doubt, continued with……so that is one thing…..I know when I get my mail…..there will be nothing from him in the box.
Yes….there are attempts at ‘break ins’, sending proxy’s our way, ‘rumors’ and other harassments……BUT…..There is never anything in our mailbox……for now!
I hope you can find some peace today henry….and allow the winds in your garden to take some of the discontent your feeling!
XXOO
EB

Saturday, 14 November 2009 @ 3:18pm

CAmom: Girl you are so right! You are a horse owner! *high five…..so am I. Yes, it’s how horses establish herd rights. They move by physical crowding. I would agree that these P’s are very animalistic in their power plays. They also yield as horses do to dominate pressure. Guess I should have carried/used a crop on him. Bwaaaahahahahaha!!!! [don't think I didn't think about it..;)]
They do love to push those buttons and then watch the reactions….and suck the power off them…..you can almost see them ‘inhale the power’.

Saturday, 14 November 2009 @ 3:54pm

Twice/CAmom:
I have a GF who swears by a statement.
When she see’s, or is in the company of a S or another odd behaving person that makes her hair stand up, she makes a comment about them,
“Their swirl is not centered”.
Referring to the swirl on the top of a horses head, between their eyes…..
She relates it to something about the off centered swirl and a horses behaviors….
Anyone horse peeps here heard this?

Saturday, 14 November 2009 @ 4:30pm

Thank you pollyannanomore, for your words. It DOES hurt at times, but I must remember their reality is based on what he has shown them in terms of behavior, so-called emotions and attitudes. That’s THEIR reality. I am fully prepared to not speak to these people again and while it hurts, there is peace in knowing I have my own reality back, as henry has said.
henry, i’m sorry you hurt today. We all have those times. I didn’t even KNOW I was grieving until I looked it full in the face and realized the person I though my ex P to be had never existed and was in fact just another illusion he thought up at the time. It takes a long time. Be strong in letting yourself feel what you feel and letting it just pass through you. You’ll come out on the other side. I promise! I like how ErinBrock said it.
I am trying to remember how I made it through without this site and already, the answer eludes me.
Cat

Saturday, 14 November 2009 @ 4:39pm

justabouthealed says:

Hanry: You wrote: I’m so tired of pretending I don’t love him.

I think of it this way. I did love Dr. Jekyll, but that was before I met Mr. Hyde.

From the beginning, if he had said, “Hey, let’s try a relationship. I’ll pretend to love you, maybe even convince myself of it for awhile…But the truth is, I’m incapable of love, except that I DO love power. And so little by little I will gain power over you, you will be hopelessly in love with me, and then I will jerk the rug out from under you, and watch you fall, over and over and over, because that is what I do to people. so what do you say, want to give it a try?!”…..would you have said, hey, that sounds just like what I’m looking for! ????

Of course not, you had no idea that Mr. Hyde is who he REALLY is, and Dr. Jekyll is just a mask.

Yes you were in love, still are in love with the illusion, but as time goes on, more and more No Contact, your heart will heal, just as surely as if he had died during the good times. Hearts do heal.

Saturday, 14 November 2009 @ 5:00pm

Sorry, I meant HEnry. And I hope I don’t have Hyde and Jekyll switched! Dyslexia knows no bounds.

Saturday, 14 November 2009 @ 5:02pm

skylar says:

Henry, I can so relateto your post. I’m sorry that you feel bad today. I blame my P-parents for my own sense of not being loved for just being me – I know you have your own history, too. I wish I had the words to make it all better for you.

Thank God you have your kids, I think that they really do love you for just who you are. For myself, without kids, I can only hope that there are good people out there somewhere because I haven’t met too many of them. I think they’re busy leading normal lives….

Saturday, 14 November 2009 @ 5:04pm

thanx everybody – sometimes saturdays are tuff – i will be ok..

Saturday, 14 November 2009 @ 5:07pm

Well said, “justabouthealed”. The reality is, there WAS no reality. It’s perfectly normal, I’m coming to understand, to grieve an illusion because at one time, that illusion was my reality.

Saturday, 14 November 2009 @ 5:08pm

justabouthealed. So true. Still sometimes I get a ping of sadness over the illusion. Yesterday my x phoned me to ask a tax question….and he started the conversation with his soft “hey” from many years ago….I still felt the pull even now. Dang it. I did not bite but had to answer some tax questions for him. ugh..
EB: never heard that on horses. That part of their hair is called the forelock. I will remember that…..’swirl is not centered’….hmmmm. Interesting. Usually I can tell a nutty horse by their eyes.

Saturday, 14 November 2009 @ 5:32pm

Twice….I’m not a horse person…..
When you stumble upon your next nutty horse…..check out the swirl and let me know….

Saturday, 14 November 2009 @ 5:52pm

I just looked up forelock….the ’swirl’ she speaks of, it’s not the hair, like the ‘bangs’….its the ‘fur’ part between the eyebrows…..a lot of times it is white or another color than the rest of the horse. It often looks like a swirl.

Saturday, 14 November 2009 @ 5:56pm

Stargazer says:

Henry,
I am the queen of pining after men many years after the relationships have ended. I’ve been there so many times. At least it usually passes and gets less and less as time goes by. I had an acute bout of longing back in February for the sociopath I’d left the July before. I thought I had no more feelings left for him, but they sneaked up on me. I have not felt anything toward him since. You will get there in your own time, too. No need to pretend. I think the time frame for grieving has a lot to do with how much we had invested into the relationship.

Saturday, 14 November 2009 @ 6:28pm

LOL It’s strange to see you guys comparing sociopaths to horses. Usually, they are compared to snakes, which happen to be my pet of choice.

Saturday, 14 November 2009 @ 6:29pm

LouiseGolem says:

TwiceBetrayed – I know that “hey,” and it wasn’t so long ago (a few months) that I got excited every time I heard it. Still do. Oh, it hurts so much. . .

And CAMom, thank you. I think my S was also yours. They sound very, very very similar. I’m really still trying to extricate myself now – over the summer, had an experience that helped me see the seams in his seeming.

Regarding the article – it’s very sobering, when one has bought so utterly into the weird but well-crafted world of an S for awhile (two years in my case) to begin to realize he can’t see the pink blobs on the sink, or, more chillingly to me, can’t feel the same love I felt when we were together.

It was actually my family who called it to my attention. His response was to demonize those members of my family who wouldn’t let him capture them in his spell. (oh, he is so beautiful, and his voice, so sweet) So it became a tug of war between him and my family, with me in the middle. I’m still in pain, because he is oh, so strong a force on me. And his family, too – I heard them say that they liked the way he acted when he was around me (he can be really nice when he’s around me — because, hell, I’m nice.) So his family has been lying and playing tricks to keep me in the picture, despite the fact that I now know he’s had at least two relationships during ours.

Well, I’m rambling. I just have to say I’m grateful to read this stuff. It’s nice to know some folks actually survive a break up with such a person. Right now, I must confess, I’m convinced he’ll try to kill me. . .

Saturday, 14 November 2009 @ 7:47pm

Lg, the seams in his seeming. Love it. Could also be the seems in his seaming…..I love wordplay.
How about this one, “Time wounds all heals.”

Saturday, 14 November 2009 @ 7:58pm

Twice: High five back atcha! I have a QH–you? We can learn a lot about people from watching horses or maybe vice versa? My first horse was a classic Alpha Mare and boy could she get agressive in the pasture. My current mare (Babe) is a sweetheart in the pasture, very docile, but still tests me from time to time. And yes, that crop would have come in handy with my ex too. And let’s not forget about spurs

Erin: I do think it’s the markings she’s talking about. My super-agressive mare had white off kilter markings on her head, kind of a swirl twisting down to a snip. She was *lethal* around other horses. I got threatened with a lot of lawsuits from her beating up on her pasture mates. My current horse has no markings on her head at all. And Star, the markings on my super-agressive horse mare were snake like actually! Hmmm…

And yeah, that nutty look in their eyes…my ex had more of a blank look. The nutty look you can spot on a horse and sorta predict what they’re capable of. But the sociopaths…no such luck.

Before you buy a horse you should always get a “vet check” to see if they’re sound. Too bad there’s no “vet check” for potential mates to see if they’re sociopaths or just garden variety neurotics. You can work with a neurotic horse but the really psycho ones are too f’n dangerous.

Ok, can’t resist: A horse story. I *almost* bought a horse that was calm with it’s owner. With me, she charged me, bit me, tried to kick me, and was coming back for more as I was running out of the arena as fast as I could. Then she turned her attention to other people in the arena…who started running…Sorta like my ex come to think of it. He was just a lot more subtle…at first.

But yes, horses are animals and act like animals. I think sociopaths are acting on their own natures and while very cunning, can’t conceal the fact they’re sociopaths. But we have to know what to look for. Very hard when their words do not match their actions—very confusing. At least horses don’t have the intelligence to really pull off a good con

Saturday, 14 November 2009 @ 8:42pm

ThornBud says:

HENRY,,,,You DO NOT LOVE HIM !!!! U just love an illusion! Like child loves to hear a tale, over and over again. With time, child realise that tale is not real, but somehow it still loves to hear it. I can feel ur pain, so many times i felt the same, and still. Than, i am telling myself: Come onnnnn, why don’t u imagine George Clooney??? Love with George is the same…FICTIONAL. Because person we loved never was real.
Wake up, Henry…HE never existed…u are mature man, sensitive, face the truth, for ur own sake. “HE” doesnt deserve any of ur feelings! Save them for someone who does! Or will.

Saturday, 14 November 2009 @ 8:51pm

Louise, I spent a lot of time (months) believing my S was going to kill me also. He’d bought a shotgun and threatened to kill himself on my front lawn, so I could watch. I always thought he would kill me first, then himself. After a while I realized he wouldn’t kill himself as on some level he was too in love with himself, and I knew he wouldn’t want to kill me and go to prison. But those months of knowing he had the shotgun & the threats…very relieved when he moved across the country. But by then his shotgun had been confiscated by the police here. (long ugly story) But I know how that feels, to be afraid for your life.

There is life after a S. It took me a really, really long time to get over it, if I am really over it even now. I went back to him even after the threats. I missed him. Maybe it’s a kind of Stockholm Syndrome. PTSD. I finally realized he was whatever he was, couldn’t see it, was incapable of change, and I was too miserable to keep going.

I don’t know if this is common with sociopaths & their partners, but I found my tolerance for the intolerable grew and grew and grew. I look back and think “any normal, healthy woman would have left long, long before.” So I have a lot of shame to deal with, and self-recriminations. The how-did-I-let-this-happen-to-me? Why did I stay? Why did I go back?

Kim: I love word play too “time wounds all heals” lol

Saturday, 14 November 2009 @ 9:05pm

Camom. yes our tolerence grows, just like in an addiction. because it is an addiction. For me, I was more angry at myself DURING than after, because, I knew damn well it was bad for me, had no good out-come, was really twisted, and still, couldn’t stop…..this went on for yesrs….Once I left, I congradulated myself, because it felt like a victory.

Not completely, though. I still have to account to myself for the seven years i lost (just on the last one) but I am learning all about the reasons why……and its really pretty interesting….God bless you, and all of us.

Saturday, 14 November 2009 @ 9:58pm

The horse swirl, or the swirl of hair on a cow is formed during the same time that the brain is formed, it should be low between the eyes, or between the eyes. the higher it is toward the “forelock” (tuft of hair hanging down between the horse’s eyes from the mane) the more skittish the animal will be. Dr. Temple Grandin whho is an expert on bovine and equine behavior did some research on this and it had always been an “old wives’ tale” but she proved it is true.

Every true old time horseman/woman I have ever known would tell you the same thing although they didn’t know the “reason” they just knew it was true.

Disposition in cattle and horses is very heritable, and calm animals produce calm animals and skittish or “high headed” ones produce skittish and “high headed” ones (“High headed” means hyper-vigilent) That’s why I culled out my cow herd of animals with bad dispositons or “high headed” ones.

Horses and cattle too, respect the “dominant” member of the herd but not others, so yes, a horse can respect one person as dominant and not give them a problem while not believing that ALL humans are dominant to them. My cattle were the same way, they knew I was dominant to them and knew ME, but did not accept ALL humans as dominant to them.

Just like my dog may not “sit” when YOU tell him to, though he knows what the word means no matter who says it. some dogs (horses, cows) will “sit” for anyone, but not all will. Depends on the animal.

Saturday, 14 November 2009 @ 10:51pm

Yes, the tolerance for the intolerant. I am a forgiving person, and I developed that to an extreme, in order to keep the relationship going. But I guess what happened with me was he reached my threshold for the intolerant. Won’t go into details here, but I will say it had to do with some of his increasingly shocking (to me) sexual indulgences. At a certain point, I realized that in order to remain an active partner in the world he created I really had to exceed my comfort zone beyond anything I could stomach. So that was when it exploded, and around the same time I found this website.

When I first found it, I was in absolute denial – couldn’t ever believe that that could be HIM, and the victim could be ME, but hell, I fit the profile to a T, and unfortunately, so did he in way too many ways. I ran like hell, and everyone who saw me (someone who has lived all over the world) running later told me that a) they’d never seen me so damned upset, and b) they saw it in him before I did. He has lured me back a few times — if only because I feel like I sort of have to keep an eye on him.

Camom – thanks so much for your notes on your fear of getting killed. Mine (to my knowledge) has no weapons, but loves to have a nice knife set in the house, and a couple times he fingered my neck in ways that made me way too uncomfortable. Also said stuff that was way freaky (about killing people.) This was another big alarm for me –

Anyway, I’m in therapy now. And watching my back like crazy. But still do have some contact with him. That love lingers. . . from what I’m learning from this site, though, he has reflected my own self and love back to me, right? Which means that what I really might love is myself–funny thing. I’ve never been good at self respect, much less self love.

Oh, the seams in seeming? — my interpretation of this very pithy speech from Hamlet (Act I Scene ii, I think), who may have been a sociopath of sorts. Or he understood the sociopathic mindset well, because he recognized when and where people were putting on performances, and how to manipulate them:

Seems, madam! nay it is; I know not ’seems.’
‘Tis not alone my inky cloak, good mother,
Nor customary suits of solemn black,
Nor windy suspiration of forced breath,
No, nor the fruitful river in the eye,
Nor the dejected ‘havior of the visage,
Together with all forms, moods, shapes of grief,
That can denote me truly: these indeed seem,
For they are actions that a man might play:
But I have that within which passeth show;
These but the trappings and the suits of woe.

Saturday, 14 November 2009 @ 10:58pm

Dear Doc Ox – What about cowlicks and widows peaks- Maybe the hair can be a warning if we know what too look for?

Saturday, 14 November 2009 @ 11:15pm

Henry, I’ve thought about that too, actually. No answer on it though. On cows and horses they all have a “swirl” of hair on the front of their head, I have seen them as low as on just the top of the nose and as high up as into the forelock on a horse (or between the horns on a cow) the “usual” is sort of right between the eyes, but have even seen some that have 2 different swirls. It is’t an “exact science” just a general indicator. People too have “swirls” and directions on how our hair “lays” (my hair on my head wants to fall in my face) but i would think any “swirl” on a person would be maybe just above the eye brows or between them, where the hair is very short and fine so might not be very “visible” I do know that when we were learning to suture, there were these big charts that showed the “grain” of the human skin, and if you cut across the grain it leaves a bigger scar than if you cut “with the grain” just like on leather. I have some places where I got some pretty BIG cuts with the grain on my skin and they didn’t leave much of a scar at all but the guy who operated on my pinched elbow nerve cut across the grain and it left a huge wide, ugly scar.

I think eventually they (medical researchers) will find some kind of medical scan of the brain, or a chemical test that will show some GENERAL information about Ps (at least the most extreme ones) maybe even some kind of treatment.

Hey, Henry, sugar, I am sorry you have had a bad weekend. I actually had a good one, I am getting less stiff and sore and can walk a bit better and these old bones are not hurting quite so bad. We had a bunch of folks out to shoot out on the range, and even the “drama queen” being here with her husband didn’t bother me. LOL when she started in bad mouthing him as soon as she got him out to the range and she and a couple of the girls and I had come back to the house to go get a drink of water, she started in mouthing and I am SO PROUD OF MYSELF I said “Teri, just shut up bitching about your husband. He’s alive and you know what, he isn’t out screwing other women, he goes to work each day, and he loves you so i dont’ want to hear any more about it.”

She said “Oh, I need to vent!” and I said, “well, this is my space and my house, and I don’t want to hear you bad mouth him, so find someone else to bitch to.”

Ain’t you proud of me! TOWANDA FOR ME!

Saturday, 14 November 2009 @ 11:33pm

Towanda !~~!! I am proud of you Ox – for tellin it like it is..I have been kinda blue today but those days come less often…concerning him anyway..Back to the hair thing, what do you call it when a guy has one big eyebrow? You know what I am talking about – those dudes are scary. Then you see guys with their hairline almost down to the eyebrow, that’s spooky too.

Saturday, 14 November 2009 @ 11:50pm

Neanderthal! Ha ha Nah, I think in animals it can have a general sign of the overall temperment but like I said, it isn’t an exact science in animals and sure not in people, but I think you are right in that some guys (and women) that “look tough” are kind of tough but not sure if there is really any correlation or not.

I am kinda proud that I stood up to her today, and especially since she was doing it in front of other guests, folks who had not been here before. And you know, this IS my space and I don’t have to tolerate people coming into my home and 1) making me uncomfortable and 2) making other people uncomfortable.

And, the nicest thing is her being here did NOT stress me out!

Henry, I have decided there is nothing we can change except our own ATTITUDE about it all. And, that is ALL we need to change. all this time I have been so miserable the ONLY thing I have change is MY OWN attitude. Everything else is the same–my son is still a P, my egg donor is still what she is, and so on, but MY attitude is DIFFERENT. that’s it. That’s “healing in a nut shell” and I wish i had seen this from the get go, it would have made it all a bunch easier and saved me a lot of pain. Ah, 20:20 HIND SIGHT!

Sunday, 15 November 2009 @ 12:49am

Oh Henry Henry! Your words made me well up “I hope I don’t go to my grave loving him.”

It is so unfair that we were targetted. I bet you have a beautiful heart and an amazing personhood … perhaps what hurts most is that it was nothing to them. They could have found someone who didn’t care so much … someone who ran around like they did. Someone who was as callous and cold and uncaring. But they targetted us and over years tormented us in every imaginable way.

I was thinking today it is like murder but they lead us to it wordlessly laughing as we select the tools to end our own lives in tears and sorrow. It is horror – they should all be locked away or tattooed in some way to alert everyone to what they are. I am terrified of crossing paths with another one … the wolf can look like the most gentle sheep

The pain is terrible. I wish there was a camp somewhere close to me but I am far from the rest of the world.

The pain is terrible. Thankyou everyone for not being cheery on this thread – this one lets us realise how painful it is to be tormented to the edge of reality, to the edge of our personhood, and then not believed by anyone around us because the Ps put on such a good show to the outside world. It is a crazy situation!

I am listening to a marvellous Steve Becker interview … not sure if I can post the link, but please moderators just edit it if I am not. Marvellous marvellous rich description and explanation. It made me see again it was not my fault, I couldn’t have done anything to change it, it was never going to change, it was easy to be fooled by his acting… It’s about narcissism but also about sociopathy / psychopathy …

http://www.marthatrowbridgerad.....your-life/

CA Mom and Kim … I was thinking a karmic retribution theme with the play on words …
“Time wounds all HEELS” (lol)

Sunday, 15 November 2009 @ 3:46am

Delluca says:

My reality is so skewed right now. I’m fighting between my logical head and my emotions and the emotions are winning. I’m in therapy and no matter how many times I’m told that it’s not my fault for what happened I can’t truly believe it. My therapist wasn’t there…how does she know that HE was the sociopath and not me? I did some lying of my own, told him stuff to try to provoke any sort of emotional response from him, tried to test whether he loved me as he said. I got nothing of course. The problem is I still love my sociopath. Even though I put up with all his behaviours he broke it off with me and I miss him and deep down I know I would get back with him if he wanted. I know I have no self-respect left. I’ve ready many of your experiences and they just scream out to me with their familiarity yet I still cant accept that he might be one. On the standard sociopath checklist, he ticks every criteria, and even with this “evidence” I still find it hard to accept. I guess after being told so many times by him that I’m entirely responsible for everything that happened between us I cant see it any other way. We work in the same office and I have to face him everyday and though I’m looking for other work I’m still dying off a little bit more inside each day. Right now he’s the normal one and I’m the crazy one. I can see it all over our colleagues faces. “You just have to forget about it and move on” they say, “Break ups happen all the time.” And when they say these things, I start to think that they’re right, that maybe I’m making a big deal out of nothing, and then I remember what he did…the lies and the manipulation. This wasnt just a breakup, he systematically destroyed any shred of self worth I had. At times, I thought he was psychic with the way he would know exactly what could hurt me or alternativley what would make me feel like the most special person on earth. The thing that helps me through at the moment is that I know these people can’t possibly understand what he is truly like, more importantly they cant possibly understand how his behaviour affected me. I know some of his stunts seem insignificant to an outsider’s eyes but my god how they impacted upon and hurt me. Right now its a struggle just to get throught the day without thinking that I’m nuts…nuts for still loving him, nuts for replaying each incident over and over and nuts for trying to figure out where I went wrong. Well you all know the feeling…

Sunday, 15 November 2009 @ 4:03am

Delucca – welcome and sorry you are here at all but welcome to this wonderful healing space. We at least understand your pain – others just can’t.

You are normal … yes their behaviour makes us do and say some crazy things … but that is the nature of long term abuse.

You are normal … come tell your story and share your wounds … you are not alone .

Sunday, 15 November 2009 @ 4:27am

Spirit40 says:

I can not sleep…. I am left with having to move from a two bedroom into a studio something I can afford by myself with my child, yeah I am angry! Angry that I let this happen but at least now I know and he always said If I have to start over so do you and he made sure of it… oh he is an alcoholic he is in a program
want me to come out of it and “help” you? Help me what I am already here at that bottom starting from scratch now , having to sell everything I own so I can downsize, I am not angry about that material things come and go I am angry that I have to do it because I was the one being used and now that I can not pay all the rent alone where is he? I did horrible on my midterm yesterday the simplest answers I could not answer and I know if I studied harder I would have got them right. I can not give up I wont because if I do give up then he “wins”!
Thanks for letting me vent ! I would get mocked if I was caught reading this site lovesux dot com is that where you get your information from…..

Sunday, 15 November 2009 @ 4:44am

Oh my therapy has been the sociopath next door…. OMG anyone remember luke with the pool thing….. deja vu but that was another back burner chick not me LOL I think someday I will write my own book who would read it? no one as far as he was concerned but I will for me someday

Sunday, 15 November 2009 @ 4:48am

Delluca:
Spirit40:
I also welcome you here. Read the articles, post as you need/wish and you will learn and grow as you walk your journey.
I am sorry your both here with us…..we do understand through our own experiences….
there is a lot of insight on this board…..so take what you need, discard the rest and find your happiness!
Good luck!
XXOO
EB

Sunday, 15 November 2009 @ 4:52am

Thank you ErinBrock!

Sunday, 15 November 2009 @ 5:05am

luv716 says:

Yesteday in therapy my therapist suggested that i take a low dose antidepressant she suggest that it wil bring back happiness
it will take the edge off it will take me away from the place that im stuck in my question is how? How do it take away the hurt that I’m feeling the hurt of being used, the hurt of being played, In therapy I cried so hard because its like what I read within all the blogs above I still have love for this person and reality is he not giving a damn about me and I’m loving what wasnt real I know time heals all wounds but God this gotta be the hardest break-up I’ve ever experience I’ve never been used before.

Sunday, 15 November 2009 @ 7:06am

Loneliness is a lonely place to be

Sunday, 15 November 2009 @ 7:10am

The COLD HARD FACT is that we take it ( the Relationship ) Personal!
It is NOT Personal! It is the way these Parasites Are! Try telling a Virus that it is bad! It doesn’t work!
It is not easy , it takes time but find anything to occupy your thoughts on besides ( it ) Take back your soul!
I tell you they do not spend any amount of time thinking about us , Unless we let them!

Sunday, 15 November 2009 @ 7:41am

luv716:
i know how you are feeling. i was there a year ago. i can only share how i helped rid myself of that level of hurt and humiliation of being played so hard! i gave it all back to the s/p/n-hole. i wasn’t the one who lied and was unfaithful. i wasn’t the one who used and abused. HE did! so, i just decided that all the shame and hurt goes to him … not me. i literally visualized taking all the pain in me (big blob of black goop) and dumping it over his head. i saw the ooze weeping from my heart going into a glass and making him drink it! yea, it’s weird, but it really helped.
you are NOT responsible for carrying all that pain. he caused it … so let him carry it around. it’s ALL ON THEM! maybe it’s that i’m a stubborn person, and i’m very principled. i won’t take responsibility for his abuse and pathology any longer. he did it. he owns it.
be good to yourself. you were simply in his way. if it wasn’t you, it would have been the next chic he saw.
they’re disgraceful pigs from demon-land! shake it off and let it all land on him.
and scream: TOWANDA!!!!!

Sunday, 15 November 2009 @ 8:08am

LOL, actually, i told my ex he is a pig. He just laughed. I guess he was too much surprised to react some other way

Sunday, 15 November 2009 @ 8:25am

I’ve been thinking all night about something I wrote on this blog, and I want to resay it, because it deserves to be extracted from the aura of Shakespeare:

I said: “from what I’m learning from this site, though, he has reflected my own self and love back to me, right? Which means that what I really might love is myself–funny thing. I’ve never been good at self respect, much less self love.”

It seems to me that sociopaths and psychopaths feed on those who for some reason don’t love themselves, and who need the reinforcement of being “loved” by a beautiful person. Could it be, then, that we’re not really loving them at all (after all they’re just shells of people, how can we love them) when we’re in a relationship like that, we’re really loving ourselves, and loving ourselves loving that person. If that makes sense. I think that does apply for me, at least.

What a thought. Perhaps what every person writing here might want to think about is this: that love we gave to them was actually a love we gave back to ourselves. Whatever quality of love we gave ricocheted back to us, because it was reflected in the S’s mirrror. Don’t mourn it — the capacity to love yourself lies within you. Save yourself some pain — look in a real mirror right now and love yourself.

I write that for myself. Hope it makes sense to anyone else who stumbles upon it and needs it.

By the way, CAmom, I’m convinced we were involved with absolutely the same man. And Delluca, I’m with you honey. I’ve been struggling for two months now with precisely what you’re struggling with.

Sunday, 15 November 2009 @ 11:45am

Dear Sppirit, and others, too,

The STRESS we are under does some nasty things to both our bodies and our ability to think, remember, etc. Your poor score on a test is, I think a result of the stress itself.

Loving them even after the betrayal is known, after they have stomped you into the dirt, is very typical. Also anger, frustration, feeling that “I caused this” and also your own friends INvalidating YOUR PAIN, “get over it, break ups happen all the time” makes your pain and your grief “disenfrancinsed grief”—devalues your feelings.

YOUR GRIEF AND PAIN IS REAL. It is YOURS and LF bloggers KNOW it is real, because we have BEEN THERE…but in the end, we all have to VALIDATE OUR OWN FEELINGS and to realize that WE ARE REAL and no one can take that away unless we allow them to do so.

As far as “being crazy” one of the prime things that the P does to victims is to “make us feel crazy” it is called “crazy making” and a group of various techniques are used to cause this, among which is “gaslighting” and distorting reality.

You say “I feel hot” he says, “Oh, no, it is vERY cold in here.” Pretty soon you start to doubt your own senses—that is gaslighting.

You have an argument, it is your fault, he is innocent. You are dumb, you are worthless, you are crazy, he is the sane one.

He/she will also smear you to others, “she is a crazy bitch, not me.” She is lying, not me. They are good at this.

READ READ READ the archived articles here. LEARN LEARN LEARN about them, and keep in mind, that KNOWLEDGE=POWER, gain knowledge and gain power to stop the feelings that the victims allow the psychopaths to implant in our brain like a virus in your computer.

There is peace after this, and it is worth working toward, and this healing process starts out about them, and ends up about becoming a stronger and bette rperson yourself.

Keep on reading and blogging here, it is a comforting, validating and healing place. God bless.

Sunday, 15 November 2009 @ 11:49am

PInow says:

Makes total sense, LouiseGolem , but is missing something. How come I cried when I read your post? I think I did love the man he pretended to be. He knew exactly what I was looking for in a man, and there he was. It’s funny, how he matched totally MY idea of an ideal relationship, at least at first. It was not that I loved myself loving him, it was that I loved a dream that for awhile became embodied in him. So, in a way, you can say, I created an Idol. The Idol that had gone crumbling down with whatever dreams, secrets, private hopes and shared desires I bestowed upon him.
They are very kin, attentive, like sponges. (or, should I say like toddlers?) Great memory, and ability to read nonverbal behaviors. Would make awesome psychologists if they gave a hoot about another.
Oxy, I think, said that it is betrayal that makes us so hurt. I agree, but more than betrayal, for me it is the loss of a dream, which was right there, close, almost real… The Ultimate betrayal was to know that it was never what I thought it was.

Sunday, 15 November 2009 @ 11:59am

Delluca – Your not the sociopath. I am not a sociopath. We did crazy things that are sociopathic. I personally thinks it’s somewhat contagious when we are involved with one. If they mirror us and we love the goodness and kindness we are reflecting to them, then when they take our identity, they in a sense become us and we become them. I know that does not make sense, but I did things I never thot I was capable of. It was like a war of love. And at times I was out to hurt him as bad as he was hurting me. I really lost my identity. There was nothing in me but anxiety, mentally and physically I was dying. That was part of his plan. And I wasnt going down with out a fight. I was so embarassed at my behavior. I can remember telling him, I have never lived like this, acted like this, it was foreign too me. But slowly I came out of the fog, the nitemare, and I have my identity back. I am more aware about his kind, and i will never behave like one of them again.

Sunday, 15 November 2009 @ 12:52pm

Henry, I think you are so right. they steal our identities, not just mirror us. They want what they don’t have. And they mirror us to get it.
How come I can’t remember any fairytales? I am sure there were plenty about stolen dreams and stolen souls… I am sure they were created because blogs weren’t available and humans wanted to protect their children from the evil ones.
Maybe, that is what we all have in common: we forgot that the boogey man exists and we thought ourselves invincible?

Sunday, 15 November 2009 @ 1:00pm

PInow and LouiseGolem,
I hear exactly what you are saying. I fell in love with the knight in shining armor on the white stallion. All he really did was “mirror” what I said I was looking for in a person. For some reason, this kind of person knows exactly how to get in to your soul and read your “needs” and then becomes that person you want. The problem is, they really are NOT that person at all. It’s an illusion. Did I love the illusion? Yes. Do I love the REAL person I found out that he was? No. The grieving that goes on over someone that never really existed takes a long time and HURTS a lot. It IS a betrayal, of the worst kind. I have such relief that the person he pretended to be is gone, though he tries to pull that illusion out now and then. PInow, I can remember looking at my ex P and telling him that he took my dreams. How interesting that you should write that. His response was that if I just admitted my true feelings (which I have and he can’t handle) then the dream would still be there. This P believes you can force another into loving you, it just takes time. Too much time has been taken already! There is NO way that one can live a dream based on a figure that never really existed.

Sunday, 15 November 2009 @ 1:03pm

PInow We thot the boogey man had horns and a tail. And if we saw one we would run, never did we think we could fall in love with evil…

Sunday, 15 November 2009 @ 1:04pm

Dear Ox,
Reading, reading and reading some more. Can’t get enough of what is on this site.

Sunday, 15 November 2009 @ 1:06pm

Funny you should say that, Henry. When I brought P to meet with a family member, she asked me if he has a tail and horns when naked at night. So, some did see them in a true light…
(Until for awhile he pulled one over her too, yeap!, he’s a master)

Cat, I said he destroyed my dreams and made me mature and lose innocence. My lovely, dearest, my trusted P said with no emotion in his face whatsoever: “that’s about time”.

Sunday, 15 November 2009 @ 1:12pm

PInow – I had a few friends tell me ‘after the fact’ that when they first met the guy they knew he was ‘not right for me’ and I asked why didnt you tell me then? They said ‘you wouldnt of believed me, you had to find out on your own.’ so true……

Sunday, 15 November 2009 @ 2:10pm

PInow,
I understand now. I went back and reread your post.
I too had people ask me what I had seen in this particular person. What is ironic is that these are the very people he’s now won over. I was so head over heels that I passed right over meeting his family and finding out their nickname for him was “Nixon.” Nothing against Nixon, mind you. My exP had it all over him.

Sunday, 15 November 2009 @ 5:55pm

luckyzb says:

Henry wrote…. “So you forgave your husband and understood his way of seeing things. So the P’s live in their reality, their disability? We have to accept they are flawed? Dont hold them responsible?”

I’ve been gone awhile but I had to respond. Ox’s article made me remember a time when, after having a great night together, my exP answered his cell phone (not recognizing the number and thinking it was work) only to sit there in silence while the daughter of the girl he’d cheating on me with drilled him about why he’d blown off her mother. When he hung up, I went berserk, of course, and he had to admit it – there was just no other way to explain the look on his face. What blows me away now thinking about it – and what made Ox’s article hit home – was, finally, after an hour of holding his face in his hands (got caught, poor baby) and listening to me sob hysterically, demanding to know “Why??? Why!!! We have such a great sex life!!! How could you??” was to respond with a helpless shoulder shrug and say, “God, I’m sorry. I just didn’t think it was that big a deal.” Of course, that later turned to “Get over it or I’m leaving! Stop whining” but it IS their reality. It IS how they perceive it to be. In his reality, it really WAS no big deal!

To Henry’s first response, I, too, had a slight reaction to OX’s post of “okay, so they get a pass for this?” But then it took but 3 minutes for clarity to sink in. It’s not about it being a “disability” because, if it was, well, that WOULD be a whole different story. I see it as having to accept that the man you’ve loved all these years is really a cold-blooded serial killer who sees nothing wrong with his behavior. We certainly don’t have to FORGIVE that way of thinking and the only thing we have to ACCEPT – as hard as it is – is that nothing – but NOTHING – will ever change it and, in order to save ourselves, we have got to get out. To me, same thing.

After ten years of hell and confusion and after one solid year of “a-ha” tearful moments tracking his narcissism, I am on my third month of NC. I never thought it would happen, I swear to God, but one day he threw a fit over something and walked out and something in me snapped. I NEVER let him back in (one time he pounded on the door for one solid hour) or picked up the phone (finally blocked all his numbers) or anything. It’s made him absolutely crazy but for all the wrong reasons. It is OVER! I can’t even remember if I’ve shed one tear (which is ALL I did for ten years!) since I had the epithany.

Don’t get me wrong, he’s still rearing his ugly head about once a week – either throwing rocks at my window, calling from pay phones to leave msgs I NEVER listen to, calling my mother and friends (who hate him, Thank God) – but he gets not a single reaction from me or even a glimpse of my face and I just go about my business. Eventually, he’ll move on to his next victim. It’s just that I was soooo easy, I’m sure! But now I’m FREE! Now, I realize that entire days go by without me even thinking about him. I don’t care who he is with, what he is doing, or if he has a place to live. I don’t feel a loss about the last ten years anymore because nothing about it was REAL – it was all a LIE. Therefore, there is absolutely nothing to miss and I am moving forward very peacefully. Life is good without all that intentional chaos and turmoil.

For those women out there who know what’s up with their P but worry that they’ll never let go, you will. Everyone’s time finally comes – in an instant! Thank God.

Sunday, 15 November 2009 @ 10:24pm

Lucky, I agree. I knew I was miserable, I lived with a sense of impending doom, I was depressed, lonely angry sad, frusrated and poweless. We split up many times and I always let him back. I used to lie in bed at night and pray for Gods help because I couldn’t, couldn’t, couldn’t let it go.

Finally I did, and by that time I think I was already over it, because, like you said, I’m not sure I shed a tear. I was damned pissed, though.

I loved what you said to the folks who are struggeling with trying to get free….It will happen.

Monday, 16 November 2009 @ 12:38am

Lucky:
Your post was so ‘right on’! Thanks for putting is so clear!
I so agree…..we go on and on letting them lie their way back in, while we just know something isn’t right…..love shouldn’t ‘feel’ like this……
And then…..just one day……one minute……THAT”S IT! Enough…..get out!
Your post took me back to when I went NC…..from the separation to continuing to have contact for the kids and business…….then the restraining order, to giving up any reason to maintain contact…..not even the kids……cold turkey, one day……didn’t return calls…..oh, the calls didn’t stop coming, nor the visits to my house watering my lawn….(freak!)…..but the minute he kicked in the door….couldn’t take the NC any more…..TPO time……and the law to keep him away…..he finally got the picture…..
We are DONE!
It took me 28 years of ‘knowing’ but hiding from the facts…..that we were done before we ever got started…..(slow learner, denial, fantasy….) whatever…….but TODAY…..it’s a done deal….he is my past…..and that is where he will ALWAYS STAY!

I second Kim and Lucky…….It will happen!

Monday, 16 November 2009 @ 1:49am

Lucky (and Henry too)

I never thought about my article being taken to mean that we should just ignore the P’s “disability” and let them go on. Mostly I was aiming at us realizing that our friends and family can’t see OUR situation like we do. They don’t see the P AS WE SEE HIM. They don’t see our SITUATION like we do. They are “color blind” to what we can see clearly, that we are DEVESTATED, that our P is NOT “Mr/Ms. Nice Guy”.

I do think we need to go a bit easy on some of our family and friends because they ARE BLIND, not just devaluing us, they literally CAN’T SEE what our situation is.

As far as the P is concerned, yes, they are also STONE cold “blind” but it AIN’T NO THANG WE SHOULD PITY—or give them a break for.

Where I was wrong with my husband was attributing to malice or uncaring what WAS a disability–and since he was not a malicious or uncaring person, just color blind, I was being terribly unfair. Sometimes (not always) our friends who don’t “get it” about how we hurt and not uncaring or malicious, they just “don’t see” it through no fault of their own.

The P, on the other hand, in the same situation, upon learning that we were inconvenienced by the “pink goop” would have taken a case of tubes and deliberately smeared it on the sink. LOL

To them NOTHING that they inflict on you is a ‘big deal” but ANY slight they perceive you do to them is MONUMENTAL.

NC is the last great narcissist INSULT you can do to them, the worst pain they can have because it takes control SQUARELY OUT of their CONTROL, and puts it in your control.

Lucky, I’m glad you posted this, it even clarified for me that no matter how you THINK your point is written and clear, sometimes it isn’t. Thanks too, Henry, you should have boinked me and made me clalrify this one better to you. ((((hugs))))

Monday, 16 November 2009 @ 2:08am

OX I will boink ya just for the hell of it. LOL but I do thank you for clarifying your post. I am just slow at getting the message sometimes. What you say makes perfect sense now. Nobody can understand or relate with us more than we here at LF can. BTW congrats on being a nonsmoker.. I got some chantix that I am going to try. Some of the side effects are – delusional – suicidal – confusion – insomnia – Hey sounds like a physcopath in a pill to me…

Monday, 16 November 2009 @ 3:10am

Yea, I heard some about the pill, I am buying the nicotine lozenges and so far I really haven’t craved cigarettesl It is the nicotine I’m addicted to (can’t wear th e patches–they break me out, and this seems to be working. I buy the 4 mg and cut them in half *the 4 mg pack is the same price as the 2 mg so DUH!

Of course I am quitting smoking and trying to lose some weight, at the same time, DUH!so who knows, I may balloon onup to 300 pounds. LOL

Welbutrin is a drug that DOES HELP with the non smoking. I used that until Morgan got burned and then went back to smoking. I then got hypnotized and that lasted about a year until all the chaos with the Trojan horse and I back slid. So, this is it. I am goingto remain a non smoker from here on in. I’ve made up my minid this time.

Well, I need to go back to beed, I woke up at midnight (went to bed too early) and Darth Vadar *(my bi-pap sleep apnea machine ran out of water in the humidity tank and my mouth got dry and I woke up. See you gusy tomorrow. Love Oxy

Monday, 16 November 2009 @ 3:36am

Thanks OxDrover! you always know what to say(write) thanks for the support I really needed that, I can identify with henry’s post, who am I ? where did I go? this isnt me? “look at mom she’s crazy” look at what she is doing to me?
WHAT are you F–ng kidding me? ME I am the one supporting us while you lounge around and work an hour a day ? I am a good person with a huge heart, sometimes I think I just need to put a wall around me or like the bubble boy… no one is going to do this to me again, its been 23 years on and off and I am done…..I am now just left with my shell, need to start all over working on healing the inside….your right the crazy making is trying to bring us down to the lowest levels, and I am a very stubborn strong italian… its takes a lot to try and break my SPIRIT… I will fight back… now I will enjoy the peace of letting go and knowing that I am the responsible , stable one that I always have been…I guess that is what they like..anyone who can take care of themselves since they havent a clue…. then on to the next….I am almost done with the sociopath next door , I am going to read it again with my sticky note pad in hand and write down all the memories I have just to get them out, the similarities are scary but now I know ….Oxy
I too quit smoking cold turkey it took me 3 days and then the notice came and I started again, I will stop soon! I have too coffee and cigs make me anxious… too much coffee anyhow! Thanks again for all the support.
Walking helps with the weight gain I will try that again soon!

Monday, 16 November 2009 @ 4:43am

Never fall in love with someones potential…….. boy do they even have potential or is it just magical thinking…….Someone posted you just let go that moment comes and you just have to let go…I loved someone that did not exist.
Now the cookie crumbled and I am the one on clean up duty.

Monday, 16 November 2009 @ 4:57am

Yea, and the glass of milk I dunked it in got spilled, too. Double clean up duty. But I think the chocolate chips were really shit, and the milk was sour……so I’m grateful for the crumble and spill…………………….:)

Monday, 16 November 2009 @ 8:36am

style1 says:

Spirit 40.. this is totally dead on correct.. when they enter selling you on what’s going to be someday.. RUN! Unless, you are in your 20’s and still in college…

I realized that the image that he projected of what his life was going to be like once this or that happened became a major part of his sell and he was good at the spin.. and when nothing that he talked about occurred in a year.. I saw clearly that his spin was a part of my attraction for him and I didn’t like living in his fantasy land…it was making me feel sick inside… and this man was 57.. his life was what it was and it was not pretty nor anything in it good for me.. so he needed his hopes to carry on and to attract a woman.. there is maybe a 1 percent chance that anything that he talked about would actually occur.. Living on hopes and dreams and in delusions of granduer makes a healthy person feel sick..
and when I would talk to him about reality, he would tell me that I was bringing him down and that I am negative..

He lived in la la land and drug me reluntantly into it for a bit..
A man is who he is and has what he has when you meet him.. sure life changes… but you can’t love an illusion.. I tried to love an illusion and kudos to me because I couldn’t.. I have never felt more stressed and uncomfortable.. his touch felt like claws..I never really bought it.. but still he was in my life for while… and now, I know more what to look for and what is fake and what I do not want…

Monday, 16 November 2009 @ 11:34am

Dear Spirit,

Yea, caffiine is also a drug, and my sons and I were drinking WAAAAY too much coffee, but I do know with caffine NOT to go cold turkey—the GRANDMOTHER OF ALL HEADACHES—but we bought decaf coffee and mixed with our regular coffee and cut WAAAAAY Back.

Caffine in excess can contribute to depression, insomnia, and other problems. A whole lbunch of stuff that makes you feel crappy. So, we have cut our caffine intake by 3/4 and are already feeling better.

I get a reasonable amount of exercise walking and working around the farm, so I’m not a couch potato by any means. I’m just going to watch my food intake and see what happens and cut that again if I must.

Anything good we do for ourselves, increase exercise (which, BTW helps decrease depression and burn off stress hormones) is a good thing. Also regular medical check ups (I’m going again Thursday to the doc) etc. is a good thing as well.

BE GOOD TO YOURSELF.

Monday, 16 November 2009 @ 11:37am

magical thinking, irrational optimism… yes.. I see it soooo clearly now… I saw it all along but whoa! Now, that I am away from him.. and the longer that I am away… I see … and wonder….WHY WAS I EVER WITH THIS MAN?
Because he came after me, he sold me, he complimented me, he fit into my life anyway that he could to win me.. I was his target.. and it felt horrible on most levels.. and I knew instinctively what he was… but his charimatic charming, manipulative ways threw me off my center for a bit.. it makes me sick when I think back.. those gut instincts are there for a reason…I negated myself and believed his spin… NEVER AGAIN!

Monday, 16 November 2009 @ 11:49am

Wow, it just keeps amazing me how much gets written here!

PINow, sorry I made you cry — and you know what, my sister saw his “tail and horns” – she called him on a bunch of stuff he was doing. He was surprised that she was the one to not like him, because, as he said “she knows how to live a double life too” Yeah, I have a sister who calls herself by another name, like the man I keep struggling to rid myself of.

I was fascinated by this line from you:
They are very kin, attentive, like sponges. (or, should I say like toddlers?)

Like toddlers — mine has claimed that he has some kind of braindamange, and perhaps he does, and the result is a sort of retarded development pattern. Much of the time he acts like a 5 year old! And he views the world with the immediacy and truthfulness of a kid, too, which is one of the things that intrigued me about him. He helped me see the world with that sort of immediacy, which I really loved. Being with him was often like being in an exotic foreign country where you’re seeing everything with the wonder of seeing it for the first time. He even considers himself to be like a kid, so much so that he fairly recently accused me of “robbing the cradle,” despite the fact that we’re both in our 50s, and he’s only a year younger than me!

I have to admit I saw him last night. Lord knows why, except that I had to, just had to see if I was strong enough to see him and retain my own identity. Hmmmm the verdict is still out on that. I’m swooning a little this a.m. He is so damned gorgeous. It’s kind of interesting to see how he responds to me, too, since I don’t scream and yell, I simply keep demanding to be by myself and to do my own thing. I think that’s stumped him, almost completely.

I know, I should change my phone number. I know I know. But I’ve moved so many times, and it would take so much damned work to change my phone number — so many people have it! And he knows that, too. . .

Style1, your message is oh so important “those gut instincts are there for a reason.”

yes indeed.

Monday, 16 November 2009 @ 1:43pm

Thanks for the kind words on the post..When I do write here, I always feel so good…nothing is more theraputic..Everyone is SO on the same page…

OX, I loved your article because it kinda gives us an OUT, a different way to look at it. If their reality IS what it IS, then there is NOTHING to do but leave. We can’t kick ourselves over something that simply and absolutley CAN NOT be changed. Once we realize that – I mean REALLY realize that – it becomes suddenly so much easier to go NC.

To Erin…and Kim who wrote “I loved what you said to the folks who are struggeling with trying to get free….It will happen.”

It’s amazing about the moment when it is FINALLY over, isn’t it? I let my P come and go and do what he pleased at the expense of my sanity for ten years and I’m sure – now that I’ve shut him out, cut him off – he feels completely wronged. He’d disappear, reappear, find an excuse to leave, come back. For the last year or two I was on the “two weeks on, two weeks off” rotation and I could almost tell you the very moment when he’d knock on the door or call again. I was always torn – I could demand answers, risk an early departure, and just extend the horrific anxiety or I could shut up, pout a little, have good sex, and enjoy an anxiety-free week or so until he – for whatever reason (my time was up!) – he’d have a fit, pack his stuff, and storm out. And then the cycle would begin again. He runined every holiday, birthday for me and my son – EVERY SINGLE ONE – for ten years. I could always tell when he was up to something because he’d start accusing me of ridiculous shit out of the blue. I learned – through reading LF and extensive research – to figure out what HE was doing by paying close attention to the things he was accusing ME of (they are really such idiots).

The night I discovered LF – and the true meaning of the word narcissist, the signs, symptoms, behaviors – I literally threw up right at my desk. I suddenly knew the awful truth – that it would never end, there was no way to fix ANYTHING, and worst of all, that my gut instincts this entire time were SPOT ON! Throughout the next year, the dynamics of everything he did took on a new meaning and it was like I was writing a case book study in my head. It made me sick. But, even though I knew the truth, I couldn’t see the light at the end of the tunnel. I’d cry and cry and feel such despair. It often felt so much worse because I KNEW. I sometimes wished I’d NEVER found my way to LF, to the truth. There was less anxiety in really NOT knowing, in just IMAGINING what he was doing on the slight possibility that maybe he really WASN’T doing it.

Then, about six months into the discovery year and about three months before I went NC, for some reason I started to feel slightly empowered at my knowing the truth. One night, after listening to a bunch of lies, I simple looked at him and calmly said, “You know what – I’m ON to you. You can tell me whatever you want, but I’m ON to you. You just remember that.” He threw a FIT!! Instead of asking me – like a normal person might – what I meant by that, he just had a tantrum and, of course, left. From then on, whenever he showed back up, would hang for awhile, and then start his antics, I’d always say that – “I’m ON to you” at the appropriate moments and, trust me, it DID shut him up, quiet him down, stop even HIM from spouting his foolishness. I offered no explanation for it. Sometimes I might say, “You know EXACTLY what that means” and he’d just stare at me with that ridiculous blank, deer-caught-in-the-headlights look he’d get when faced with his own psychotic idiocy.

My point is…slowly but surely, I got stronger without even knowing it…until that final day when I let him go once and for all. My son was in the next room that day and he does this great impression of me calmly yelling out from my room this cocky ” Buh-BYE-now!” as the P stormed out on what he didn’t know was his very last day in THIS girl’s reality!!!!!

Every girl with a P – let your heart not be troubled!!! It’s your Divine Right to be happy and, I promise you, that your incredible moment WILL come!

Monday, 16 November 2009 @ 5:57pm

Luckyzb,

Thank you so much for your post. It shows that even if it takes time, there is a way out of these entanglements.

Monday, 16 November 2009 @ 6:08pm

Thank you so much Oxy, for your wonderful long post to me. I do appreciate that you took the time to do that for me, so I feel very blessed by that. You are SO RIGHT!! you are 63, I am 70, and we are on the ‘last trimester” of our lives. Our p. partners, parents, siblings, and P offspring have STOLEN ENOUGH of our lives, like you said, drawing a line in the sand is no good, we have to chisel it “IN STONE!!And it serves no useful purpose to continually torture myself with false guilt —{coulda, woulda shoulda!}. The fact is that we DID THE BEST WE KNEW HOW, and now that we know better, we are doing better. Like you , I am skittering between the various stages of grief, and they are no means in order, or set in stone. felings rise up in me, and I go with them Its like a wave crashing over my head, I cant avoid it.Regret, anger, grief, fury and rage, resentment, false guilt, regret,on and on and on. But at last now Im learning to feel the feeling and let it go.Your so right, LIFE IS VERY SHORT, lets celebrate it, enjoy it, and live it to the full!.A happy fulfilled life is the best revenge over these alien ps. THANK GOD we CAN feel, we are not like them! Like you I gave birth to 2 Ps,{you had one,}but we are not responsible for all their genetic make- up.
Whenever I start to feel sorry for my older daughter, I remember the horrible things she has done, that she has no remorse, and that she does NOT love me, she has only ever used me. NO MORE!! Your right, too, re being happy in myself, but its such a blessing and a bonus,to enjoy our lovely new family, who, in one year, have given us so much love!Any chance, Oxy, of you getting permission to email me? Id love to send you some pics of David and I with our new “KIDS!!” {If you dont wish to do so, thats OK too. Much Love again, dear Sister!!and HUGS!!! gem.XXX

Monday, 16 November 2009 @ 8:17pm

I am glad that you know all my “boinking” you is in love and with the best initentions. It literally makes me furious at how WE suffer for what they did and what they are! We do not deserve that and I am determined—my inner Erin B—to drive them out of my life, my thoughts, my emotons!

There are only two choices, live in regret or get the heck on with the REST OF MY LIFE! I am going to do the latter! I have wasted 3/4 (if I’m lucky) of my life as it is and I’m not going to waste the rest of it. I think about our lovely friend Lily, and how she hurt so much for those seven years she had without her P X and yet, the grief she had from her P or duped kids kept her in misery the entire time she could have been LIVING. I still have not been able to contact her so I don’t know what has happened. Why don’t you send her a card and maybe if she is still in a nursing home or rehabilitation place they will forward it on to her. I don’t think there is much chance (knowing what I do about her medical condition etc) that she has returned home. She would have contacted me if she were not gravely ill.

Today was a lovely day though—off line all day as son D was working on my new computer transferring data—so I cleaned house and sewed, entertained my cousin for a short visit, and just had a great day! (weather crappy though!@) But I thought how great just to ENJOY every minute of the day!

Just keep on counting your blessings, Gem! You’re a spunky lady and I need you here to help me Keep Henry “in line!” LOL ((((hugs))) and my prayers for you!

Monday, 16 November 2009 @ 11:17pm

witsend says:

Geminigirl,
Well mamma Gem I think you have more “adoptive” girls than you even know! I know that those of us who hold you dear to our heart here on LF are not the same as having the relationship you so DESERVED to have with your own girls. I know it isn’t the same. But you are loved…..You seem like a very sweet and wonderful, caring, lady. And it comes “through” in your thoughtful post.

It is natural for your emotions to swing back and forth with your daughters. This is a very hard thing you are doing. Letting go. Thank goodness we have Oxy to keep boinking us to let us know that we will survive this. Because if Oxy didn’t tell me that it CAN be done, I know I wouldn’t believe that it was possible.

Monday, 16 November 2009 @ 11:33pm

Dear Witty,

Thank you for that vote of confidence, but I KNOW you could do anything you set your mind to do—you were just afraid of my skillet! LOL

How did your show go? Did you knock them dead? It was pouring rain today so we didn’t take the trailer load of “treasures” up to the auction as they would just have set out side and gotten ruined anyway, but hopefully next week will be better weather, or the next. No hurry on this, can keep piling more stuff on the trailer. I’m afraid we may never run out of “treasures” to dispose of. son D took the trash trailer to the dump three times last week!

How is your doggie doing BTW? We haven’t heard since the day after you got him back from the vet.

Well, I’m going to check out for tonight! you night owls keep the trolls away and for goodness sakes, don’t respond to any! the ones lately have sure been LAME! LOL Goo’nite! (((hugs)))) and God bless us every one!

Monday, 16 November 2009 @ 11:47pm

Oxy,
My show was good! I was really lucky and didn’t sell quantity so much, but I sold some of the quality pieces that I brought with me.

My friend and I didn’t unload the trailer either as we have one more show this weekend and that is it until Spring….Yikes….I have to make that money last for awile. Winter is always scarey for me when it comes to money. If my vehicle breaks down I am screwed, or anything major like that. I just don’t have the ability to make any extra money in the winter. So I keep my fingers crossed.

My sweet dog responded pretty well to the medications. So I think he is doing pretty good. But one of the meds (the steroids ??) makes him VERY thirsty. He drinks several bowls of water each day now! And yes, he then has to go outside all the time. I was worried over the time when I was gone that my son wouldn’t be letting him out often enough because he stayed at grandpas and was not close by enough to check on him often.

Every once in awile he still walks a little bow legged in his back legs but his pain seems to have gone away. So I hope his condition isn’t a cronic thing he will suffer with.

We found a lost dog today in our yard. It still had a part of his chain attatched to his collar so it was obvious he broke away from someones yard. A very good looking husky. Of course the pound was already closed for the day so I put in a call on the voice mail. And put the dog in my garage until morning. Lucky for this dog the night dispatch called and had found the owner as they had called in and left a message that they had lost their dog. I LOVE happy endings. I am a sucker for lost/stray dogs……

Tuesday, 17 November 2009 @ 12:04am

Dear Ox,
I wrote telling you about my ex P. and how he had successfully manipulated my family. I received a phone call last night from my father. It turns out HE was not taken by the P at all. He wanted to get him out of the state and just have him gone. We talked for a long time and while others still believe the P., my father and I have reunited. He also filled me in on just how things were manipulated and done and it was like hearing a repeat of how things had been done to me. It’s good to know there is someone out there who sees him for what he really is. Wanted to share this with you.
Cat

Tuesday, 17 November 2009 @ 11:24am

I’m about to go to my Dr. to get checked out for anything that my S might have passed onto me. With all his lies I thought it was better to be safe. He’s been so inconsistent with what he’s told me about his past that I just dont know what to think.

On a different note Kim Fredrick i know exactly what you mean when you said “I knew I was miserable, I lived with a sense of impending doom, I was depressed, lonely angry sad, frusrated and poweless” My S used this as the excuse to dump me. I wasn’t happy enough for him, I always negative and bringing him down. What he could never see and what he still refuses to see is the way he contributed to this. How else am I supposed to act when I’m told that my clothes are not good enough therefore he cannot take me out to dinner. How else am I supposed to feel after one discussion where trying to get my point across I happened to say to him ” no idiot, what I’m trying to say is…” and then to be denied breakfast as a lesson for me to think about what I had done(to me I thought we were having a playful, lighthearted discussion, and my comment was meant affectionately). What I am supposed to do when he shows me no affection, when you tell someone you adore them and are met with utter silence. Like I said in a previous post, these are little things to an outsiders eyes, but when they are so abundant, they chip away you until you are nothing.

This man chased me like a dog, to the point where family and friends nicknamed him “pepe le pew” like the cartoon character. He was verging on stalker territory. It went from complete obsession on his part, to being completely horrible to me. I even remember begging him to talk to me to tell me what was wrong with us and telling him this is not like you, I dont even know who you are anymore.

It wasnt enough that he’s completely destroyed me, he wants to help me get over this breakup and will do anything to make things easier for me. He tells me lets not forget who put us in this situation (me apparently), and how much he did to save our relationship. That he is concerned for me and that he wants to see me do well, both mental health wise and career wise. My mental health and career were just fine before him!!

That was the story a few weeks ago. Now it’s like I don’t exist. I know this is probably the best thing that could happen, but we work in the same office, it’s small and not even be acknowledged is humiliating. (Did I mention that he dumped me via text message and then has the nerve to sit across from everyday at work like business as usual) It’s like a switch went off in his head and he was over it.

I think I’ve finally figured out what hurts the most. Its the feeling of being robbed of your basic dignity as a human being at every level, from the way you now perceive yourself to how others see the pathetic person I have become.

Tuesday, 17 November 2009 @ 9:59pm

Delluca, and everyone… I can identify this happened to me all the time , he bought “rings” to pacify me, we took a family vacation(I paid of course) told I would be paid back LOL…didnt happen, he told me what to wear , oh you dont look good in that… then we see another woman waiting to play ping pong…..different color , different body type, and he checks her out like I am not even there… she goes to the table to motion to him its their turn to play , I lost my mind…. he stomped off like a child who didnt get his way… they destroy your joy, happiness (always telling us we are the negative ones) I used to say you suck the life out of me, You bring me down, he always brought out the worst in me. No affection… LOL he would tell me while not paying attention to me, whats the matter didnt anyone want to play wih you at the playground, get over it , find a hobby he told me with his back to me the whole time…..Let me “help” you, with your homework, with other things I can do myself… I read in another post somewhere on LF about Aggressive abuse totally understand that and learned helplessness goes back to my childhood…..we are the ones with the big heart and they just have a heart that is two times too small worse than the grinch……..
Since I first put the name to his face a few months ago….,now I feel tons better getting myself back on track even though I have to downsize sell everything I own or give it away and live in a studio I can not wait! A new beginning! No one to tell me what to do like I am a child , how to drive, what to wear or try to humiliate me in front of strangers or his friends. What bugs me is no one else wants to accept it or acknowledge it( his family) he is the poor victim I am a horrible person and he is saint of bs!!!!! We can start over , this is the strength we need to ignore them like they dont exsist do not look them in the eye, I will do my best if I ever have to have contact, we have a child( can children be told when their parent is a sociopath) a pre teen who still is confused? anyway Its easier to let go now but it only took 23 years to put a name to the face…..its all about them no more its all about us, put our selves first , listen to our instincts, I used to deny mine or question am I “crazy” did that just happen right in front of my face? Dignity starts now! We must straighten up, ( I have been slouching ) not good posture it took it all out of me…..hold our heads up high and turn our noses to them. We are took good for them! We deserve better! and we will, Living well is the best revenge!Even if we have to fake it till we make it, (not like they do) Thanks for letting me rant and rave!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wednesday, 18 November 2009 @ 7:03am

Your question about telling your child, I suggest you go to Dr. Leedom’s blog “raising the at-risk child” and read her book, “Just like his father” She has a child with a psychopath, and is a psychiatrist with great insight. Having a child and co-parenting with these monsters is a challenge in itself. God bless and good luck (((Hugs)))) Oxy

Wednesday, 18 November 2009 @ 11:43am

a_real_wife says:

Wonderful post! As they say, “esperience is everything,” and when others do not have the same experiences with the S/P/N in OUR life, they truly – as you said – have those blind spots where the S/P/N’s are concerned.

One canNOT make another person experience one’s own reality – but you make a great point in your post, by acknowledging the different perspectives that others have.

It is not a shortcoming on “the other’s” parts, but lack of experiencing the true nature of the P’s (and subcategories), since they “wear the face” that they WANT the beholder to perceive.

I love your posts: so wise and well though out and admirably, clearly described. Thank you!!
~j~

Wednesday, 18 November 2009 @ 12:36pm

Thank you ARW, glad you enjoy my articles. Glad to see you back! I enjoy your posts as well!

Wednesday, 18 November 2009 @ 1:42pm

Thanks Oxy! I took your advice in the above post… how ironic I have an abnormal psych midterm today all I am doing is studying, studying the things I can not remember first….. Thanks for your prayers I need them now more than ever….I am taking a lil break from the book…it can be overwhelming…

Thursday, 19 November 2009 @ 10:41am

All that studying paid off… I’ll take the 80% and go with it….why is it I still do not trust my gut instinct, I did not listen to it and would have got a little higher grade, professor said go with the subconscious and oh well I guess maybe on the final I will go with my first instinct.

Friday, 20 November 2009 @ 4:12am

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Your reality is what you see

119 Comments to “Your reality is what you see”

Cat says:

OxDrover says:

Cat says:

CAmom says:

jillsmith says:

Donna Andersen says:

to innocent to know says:

to innocent to know says:

OxDrover says:

Cat says:

Elizabeth Conley says:

slimone says:

OxDrover says:

henry says:

henry says:

pollyannanomore says:

pollyannanomore says:

Twice Betrayed says:

Twice Betrayed says:

henry says:

Isabell says:

CAmom says:

to innocent to know says:

to innocent to know says:

to innocent to know says:

nic says:

OxDrover says:

OxDrover says:

lostingrief says:

Easy says:

kim frederick says:

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Rosa says:

lostingrief says:

OxDrover says:

geminigirl says:

to innocent to know says:

OxDrover says:

nic says:

Cat says:

henry says:

henry says:

ErinBrock says:

Twice Betrayed says:

ErinBrock says:

Cat says:

justabouthealed says:

justabouthealed says:

skylar says:

henry says:

Cat says:

Twice Betrayed says:

ErinBrock says:

ErinBrock says:

Stargazer says:

Stargazer says:

LouiseGolem says:

kim frederick says:

CAmom says:

ThornBud says:

CAmom says:

kim frederick says:

OxDrover says:

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henry says:

OxDrover says:

henry says:

OxDrover says:

pollyannanomore says:

Delluca says: