When does bitterness become a disorder?
PDF The damage done to strangers, lovers and family members by sociopaths includes physical, emotional, psychological, social and financial harm. Over the years I have encountered many people whose lives have been damaged in this way.
The victimization alone is very sad, but people suffer not only from the actual damage but from their psychological and emotional reactions to it. It is one thing to lose a large sum of money or time that you can’t ever get back. The losses happened and are permanently in the past. It is another thing for a person’s present to be occupied by that loss.
The Aftermath is often more extensive than the victimization itself
It is my observation that for many victims this aftermath lasts a long time and includes considerable dysfunction and this dysfunction causes additional damage. Many have used the label “PTSD” for these psychological, emotional and physical reactions to victimization. Although I agree that diagnosis may fit some, I have never been entirely comfortable with it applied to this context. The reason is that PTSD technically applies to only to situations that are “life-threatening.” PTSD is an anxiety disorder as opposed to an “adjustment disorder” and some symptoms that victims have are not based in “anxiety.”
Psychologist and Professor, Dr Michael Linden, of the Research Group Psychosomatic Rehabilitation, Berlin, Germany has proposed a new disorder be added to the DSM. This disorder, termed Post-Traumatic Embitterment Disorder or PTED describes the reactions I have seen in many people victimized by sociopaths.
I thought seriously about this blog for two weeks before posting it because suggesting there is such a thing as PTED is far from politically correct and sincerely, I would not want anyone to get the idea that I blame victims for their aftermath symptoms. On the other hand, I hope that those who have the symptoms Dr. Linden identifies will consider addressing them. I am also not in favor of the medicalization of common psychological reactions and so am not rushing to advocate PTED be declared an official diagnosis.
What is PTED?
Just as PTSD is thought to result from the threat of loss of life, PTED results from a different kind of threat. Dr. Linden states regarding PTED, “The core pathogenic mechanism is not the provocation of anxiety, but a violation of basic beliefs. This threat to deeply held beliefs, acts upon the patient as a powerful psychological shock, which triggers a prolonged feeling of embitterment and injustice.”
For victims of sociopath’s the sociopath’s behavior violates core beliefs about human nature and sense of safety. That theme is discussed over and over on this website.
Diagnostic and associated features
The essential feature of posttraumatic embitterment disorder is the development of clinically significant emotional or behavioral symptoms following a single exceptional, though normal negative life event. The person knows about the event and perceives it as the cause of illness. The event is experienced as unjust, as an insult, and as a humiliation. The person’s response to the event must involve feelings of embitterment, rage, and helplessness. The person reacts with emotional arousal when reminded of the event. The characteristic symptoms resulting from the event are repeated intrusive memories and a persistent negative change in mental well-being. Affect modulation is unimpaired and normal affect can be observed if the person is distracted…
Besides prolonged embitterment individuals may display negative mood, irritability, restlessness, and resignation. Individuals may blame themselves for the event, for not having prevented it, or for not being able to cope with it. Patients may show a variety of unspecific somatic complaints, such as loss of appetite, sleep disturbance, pain.
PTED is said to be a disabling condition and is very difficult to treat.
Additional comments
Although I read two of Dr. Linden’s papers (see below) I was disappointed that he failed to define what it means to be bitter. How does bitterness differ from other reactions like anxiety or grief? Bitter is not an emotion it is a taste. Is he suggesting that victims have an actual bitter taste in their mouths? In studying dictionary definitions I can offer that bitterness is unique in that there is an anger/hostility component- synonym resentful, hostile feeling.
Provided he can more precisely define bitterness, I think Dr. Linden may be communicating something useful here. That is the idea that we have to mobilize our resources to move beyond events that threaten us. Events that threatened core beliefs may be very traumatic for people. It is important for victims to examine their core beliefs in recovering from a relationship with a sociopath.
I am interested in your reactions to this proposed diagnosis.
References
Linden, Michael, Kai Baumann, Barbara Lieberei, and Max Rotter. 2009. “The Post-Traumatic Embitterment Disorder Self-Rating Scale (PTED Scale).” Clinical Psychology & Psychotherapy 16, no. 2: 139-147.
Linden, Michael, Kai Baumann, Max Rotter, and Barbara Schippan. 2008. “Diagnostic criteria and the standardized diagnostic interview for posttraumatic embitterment disorder (PTED).” International Journal of Psychiatry in Clinical Practice 12, no. 2: 93-96.
written by Liane Leedom, M.D. • Permalink •
amber says:
Oh man…this is sooooooo LAME!!!! I know I really don’t have another choice…it’s just a crappy situation…I get home from school, and am faced with reporting my car stolen and potentially putting my dad’s friend’s kid in jail!!! Man I thought the hardest decision I would have to make tonight was chicken or fish for dinner….Nope not quite!!! This was not my fault, and learning from experience, being the nice person and giving someone the benefit of the doubt..or giving them a CHANCE to do something right….Well, that’s ALWAYS come back to bite ME in the ass! I called my dad back and posed the same questions..”What if he’s sold it? What if it’s in Mexico? What if he strips it for parts to buy drugs?” It’s a crappy old Nissan Altima for christ sake!! And let’s face it..if the kid was crazy enough to steal it, then why wouldn’t it be stipped or in Mexico by now?!?! So I can’t worry about putting this kid’s ass in jail. YOU STEAL A CAR….YOU BREAK THE LAW…. YOU BREAK THE LAW…. YOU GO TO JAIL PUNK ASS!!! AAARRRRGGGHHHH!!!! I’m sooo annoyed that I even have to deal with this!!! I’m having S flashbacks…man I am a S magnet…they’re even stealing my damn car now!!! LOL!!! Thanks Sky for the respose.
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Isabell says:
Sometimes…I am the wax. Sometimes…I’ve been a brick. Most of the time…I have been a reed; plyable, flexible, willing to bounce back after the storm has bent me over. Never bitter enough to be brittle, and therefore break. Roll with the punches, ebb with the flow. Anger empowers me, though I seem not quite enough anger, as it has been tempered over the years. Bitterness inslaves me… I gave that up for lint one year, and just kept walking. I don’t need it. I don’t want it. It does me no earthly good. So, I bend in the storms of life. The sun will shine again; I’m old enough to believe this, now. And, even though the sun is shining, I’m also old enough to realize another storm is on the horizon. So, live the moment at hand. Enjoy it. Embrace it. For it, too, shall pass.
Peace to all who travel here.
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witsend says:
Amber,
That is bad news about your car.
I think it is to bad that you have to wait until Thursday though to report it. Sounds like his father has had bad experience before with this kid. Because he is automaticaly enabeling him by asking for the “grace period” to find the car before you report it missing.
This grace period is covering his kids butt, if he can find the car but leaving yours WIDE OPEN.
I would consider reporting it today. Because of the “what ifs”??? You need it covered by your insurance. and the only way to do that is to report it.
The other thing is that if this is the kids worst offense to date, you might be also saving this kids ass by him having to face up to the consequence of his actions rather than his family covering them up. Especially if that is what has been happening in the past when he is in trouble.
If he is young enough being in trouble with the law might knock some sense into him. If he has been down this road already than it won’t make much of a difference. BUT either way that isn’t your problem and his dad is kind of putting you in a position by not being able to report your car stolen.
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persephone7 says:
Isabell:
Such a beautiful passage (post doesn’t get it!) you wrote – thank you!
Amber – hope car thing gets resolved quickly for you, I just asked to see
if I could get my timing belt replaced (am overdue and know I better do
it now) and pay in two installments and my longtime mechanic agreed – helps so much. Whatever you can do to enlist help from good friends, do it! And God does work in strange ways sometimes…throws us a curve ball when we least expect it. Good luck!
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Isabell says:
Thank you, Persphone.
Amber, REPORT IT!!! Doing so IS the responsible thing to do for yourself…AND, the kid. Though I know exactly the pickle you are in. How is it when someone violates you, that you feel guilty for protecting yourself? I call this stinkin thinkin. I suffer with it as well. I do believe it is a symptom of having been violated and gaslighted, and lied to, and projected upon (slimed) for so long, we get confused about what is right, and wrong.
Your dad, should be 100% supportive of you; not his friend. If he isn’t….then beware; he’s not looking out for your best interest, but his own in relationship to pleasing (making appearences) for his friend at YOUR EXPENSE. Can you really afford to maintain your dad’s appearence with his friend?
Do the right thing!
Blessings to you…
Well…I’m off to WORK… New job today. YIKES!!!! All prayers and well wishes, and mojo will be joyfully recieved!!! ::grins::
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henry says:
Isabell – Thanks for that nice ‘passage’ to start the day with – with age comes wisdom. AMBER – This kid violated you, he is a BAD person, do the right thing and report it stolen, friend of a friend or not, if you let it slide I will boink you with thy slillet.
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persephone7 says:
Amber:
I had just enough time to really read through about the car just now – I think Witsend and others make good point – in long run, you may do this
kid a service by reporting it – and sooner then later! He did the deed and
you shouldn’t have to bear the consequences.
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OxDrover says:
The (enabling?) dad may get pithed at you, but I would call the cops THIS INSTANT. There is NO benefit in you “walking on egg shells” the kid is the one that did the bad deed, and YOU are the one paying the consequences, wondering whether to call the cops or not.
Why are YOU obligated to NOT report your car stolen just because it is “HIS KID?”
Think about it—-he is asking you to RISK YOUR TOTAL FINANCIAL STABILITY FOR HIS KID’S BAD BEHAVIOR.
What is FAIR or GOOD about this situation. CALL THE COPS!
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OxDrover says:
You know, the more I think about the car situation the more it pithes me off.
This FOG–fear, obligation and guilt trip that this “friend” is laying on YOU to protect his kid from stealing is what so many Ps families do for them to cover up their bad deeds at someone else’s fault.
They put the onus on the VICTIM (and in this case, that is YOU) to cover up and take the consequences for someone else. All the RISK is YOURS all the benefit is THEIRS and you are made out to be the BAD GUY for calling the cops. UGH!!!!!!!! (that is the sound of me grinding my teeth! and it isn’t even my car!)
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amber says:
Thanks everyone! And you’ll all be gald to know that I reported it first thing this morning. Yeah, I need to cover my own ass. This kid doesn’t give a shit about me or my car, so sorry buddy, I’m doing what I need to do. Maybe a little time in jail will serve him right. HA! I feel bad for my dad’s friend, but it’s not my responsibility to cover his ass. Like I said, I’m learning to be more assertive and stand up for MYSELF! I tend to let people run all over me because I’m too nice.
I talked to my dad’s friend this morning to let him know that I reported it and I wans’t going to wait. He said he understood. Here’s the kicker, the kid’s got a car there! A nice little Honda. So I told his dad, well I’ll give you the pink slip to mine and you can give me the pink slip for his!! LOL!! Just a joke, but you know that my car is in pieces somewhere right now. The kid’s got a car and he stole mine….RIIIIIGGGHHHTTTT. I’ll never see mine again. Siighhh!! I’m just glad it was an old junker car and not a nice new BMW or something. I’d be besided myself right now.
Well, thanks again everyone for the support and advice. I really do appreciate it. I’ll keep you updated.
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Matt says:
amber:
First, why would your father care if you have another key for the car? This reminds me of when my movers boosted my microwave. I discovered this after the move when I had the glass tray that goes inside, but no microwave. The moving company INSISTED I turn the tray over to them before they would write me a check.
Second, call the cops. Speaking as a lawyer, you need to notify the cops right off since your have to protect yourself from an insurance liability standpoint. Then notify your insurance company.
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ErinBrock says:
Amber:
CALL THE COPS!!!!!
You don’t OWN this problem…..it’s someone elses that THEY placed on you.
Report it and let the fucker deal with whatever HE created!!!!!
THERE!
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amber says:
Matt, my dad wanted to know if I had another key because his friend thinks he might know where he’s hiding out with the car. He thought that maybe he could take it back without having to get the cops involved. So I told him today, well if he thinks he knows where he’s at with the car, then go over there and KICK HIS ASS!!!! He’s trying to cover his kid’s ass by not getting the cops involved, the kid’s only 18 maybe. But I don’t care..I need to watch out for myself! SORRY!!! It’s just a crappy situation all around, but it’s been reported and it’s out of my hands from here. The kid will get what’s coming to him.
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ErinBrock says:
I wanted to share something that happened last night……
It was almost placed on us from the start of lunch….
I took one child and a friend to chinese food at lunch….1.2 day off school…..
The owner of the restaurant is and has been progressively hurt and sad by her adult children and she has shared abuse by her husband, and feels trapped.
SO we go into the restaurant and she is crying, comes over to our table and UNLOADS when my son said he saw her oldest the other day…..
We all look at each other and didn’t know what to do….it wasn’t appropriate, but we were there. YIKES….
So we listened…..she went into telling the kids about how they need to help their mother, save money and love their family…..how life is not easy. This was her mantra …..life is not easy!
We ordered, and when she delivered the food, she wouldn’t stop….she obvioulsy needed to be ‘heard’, as inapporopreiate as this was……so I went into the you can only contorl yourself speel…..Ya’ll have heard it….I told her it’s possible to get out,…..if THAT WAS WHAT SHE WANTED!!!! She was in control of HER!!!
My son watched me the whole time……I found this very interesting, as I know he has heard it a million times…..
I made an excuse to hurry the check and leave, she even followed us out to the car,,,,,take care of your mamma, be good to her, LIFE IS NOT EASY!…..
Once in the car, I told the kids…..sorry, I had no idea and she obviously wasn’t in a good place.
My sons friend shared some of her life experiences with me about abuse from a step parent etc….and how no one ever wanted to listen to her…..and she thought it was fine and my advice was perfect……although we had planned on just enjoying a lunch together….
So…..fast forward, onto the day……
That evening I had just got home and same son brings home anohter friend….he immediately comes into my office and says…..Mom, XX has a problem and can you talk to her, she really needs advice…..
I’m thinking SHIT….am I DR.Phil….okay…..anything for the kids…..
I feel strongly we should all have someone to be able to open up to…..especially the kids.
OMG….this young lady layed it out! The three of us sat in my sons room as she told me stories of sexual abuse by an adult woman. a fucking 50 year old woman….
the more she talked the more familiar the story was….she was petrified of this woman, worried about the business relationship this woman had with her mother and didn’t want to cause her mother any issues, wasn’t sure if she had provoked her, ….
The girl sent me emails of what the woman wrote to her, and knowing who this woman is and for the past 20 years….SHE WAS GROOMING THIS YOUNG LADY and preying on her!
I made that clear.
This woman has a reputation for swinging, les. sex, cocaine, sex with minors, and the likes….so what the fuck is she doing befrending an 18 year old girl, claiming she is the only one that the girl could trust, I won’t betray you…..blah, blah…..as she’s attempting to get this girl into bed with her and her husband, trying to kiss her, and putting her hand down the girls top!!!
Yada yada…..I told this girl….(she is 18), this woman is NOT her friend, she was preying on her…..It wasn’t going to go away, because this woman is a manipulator and a wouldnt ever see what she was doing as wrong! that it was time for HER to take control, she didn’t do anything wrong, and there was no one that could stop these behaviors but her. As much as I wanted to go rambo on this woman….I could not.
THIS IS NOT HER PROBLEM, and DON”T OWN IT!!!!! But you can put a stop to it….and here’s how…..
I layed out the groundwork for her….
I told her to document and confront the woman….IF she balked call the police and file a restraining order……
Okay….so my point in telling you this was…..during the course of the talk, I made a statement I felt very strongly about…..Said something like NO….she will NOT react like this….she is scared of others finding out and exposure.
I repeated it, and my son stops and says…..XX, when my mom says NO….like that…..she is certain, and one thing I have learned about my mom is ….she knows!!!
OMG, OMG, OMG, OMG…..HEEEELLLLLOOOOOOOO!
My defiant, floundering child just said WHAT??????
I stopped and looked at hiim, (I couldn’t help it) and he says,….it’s true mom….with all you’ve been through and everything you have always told my friends or me…..your right on.
She should listen to you. Trust you.
Remember what you told the Chinese lady today?
HOLY SHIT, MOTHER OF BABY BABCOCK……
My son is listening……they do listen……
I was very proud of him, and I thought about it later….
Ya know….it says alot about him and our relationship that he encourages his friends to talk to me…..and they do…..they spill thier guts to me….I hear it all, abuse, sex, parents, gardening, sports….whatever….
Also, when we talk, that he reinforced what I said with such emphasis.
So this morning, he had a parade to march in….I took him to the bus….and he says to me…..Ya know mom….you should really go back to school and become a psychiatrist…….
I LAUGHED SO HARD!!!! He said, no really….your so good with people and you have lived a life that can help others…..and your good at it!
HOLY SHIT…..MOTHER OF BABY BABCOCK!!!!!
WHO IN THE HELL HAS HIJACKED MY CHILD???????
I appreciate what my son see’s in me……and I appreciate even more that he is willing to verbalize his feelings OUT LOUD!
Proud parental moment……which tells me he IS getting something from me and my experiences in life….he IS paying attention!
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ErinBrock says:
AMBER;
Good for you! I know the quandry…..but we can’t own others issues….we got plenty of our own huh!
Kudos fo rmaking the move!
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Donna Andersen says:
Erin,
So glad that you’re having such a positive influence on your son and his friends. Congratulations!
Sometimes there is a reason why we experience the abuse – so we can help others get out of it.
Way to go!
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ErinBrock says:
Heaven:
I’m glad your here and I’m glad you are finding some answers and strength.
I remember the depositin days……oh YES! I just re read the transcript for a laugh the other night…..what a crazy dope he is!
I worked very hard at my divorce, researched every step and knew how and whne to hit……
I really never worried about the custody side….because the kids were exposed by HIM…..and I knew it would not be a power play by him, given what the kids knew and lived at his hands.
I also knew….there wasn’t a judge on earth that could MAKE my kids do anything they were NOT wanting to do! PERIOD!
They want nothing to do with their father!!! And are the first to speak up on his abusive and drug related bahaviors.
Outside of offering to SELL me the kids for 80K…..that was his biggest attempt……ALthough he did tell the judge I was terminal…..HAHAHAHAHA….sorry……..and he should have custody of them……I would be dead in a year! The judge said, oh really, and how did you gain this info…he said HEr Dr……then the judge said, Oh, I see…..so is this WHY you cancelled your wifes health ins? KABOOM!
But…..Heaven…..YES….we can protect our children AND ourselves…..and our assets……
All of our situations are different, yet similar….but there are KEY things to do to be successful!
And if I can do it……ANYONE can!!!!
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ErinBrock says:
Donna:
THANK YOU!!!!
I really do believe it all happens for a reason, and every step we take has a lesson, like toilet paper or gum stuck to our shoes……this is why I have no regrets!
It was a good day yesterday!!!!
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OxDrover says:
Dear Erin,
TOWANDA!!!!! I am so proud of you and proud of your son and proud for you both.
I had this same kind of “I’m listening mom” the day after my son’s wife tried to kill him and he told me as he put his arms around me, “Mom, you are a prophet” (I hadn’t thought about him killing him or trying to but I didn’t think she was trustworthy the first day he brought her home almost 8 years before) and his “friend” the Trojan Horse P I had said from early on was a lying piece of Psychopath.
It is amazing sometimers how long it takes to get those validations from our kids–I think it was mark twain who said “it is amazing what my father learned between the time I was 15 and 25″ Yep, they start to see that we aren’t all bad, and that we don’t stay up nights just dreaming of ways to make their life not fun! LOL ROTFLMAO Yep, mine admitted they actually thought that! Which wasn’t true of course, but I iadmit to wondering a few times how I could “hide their bodies!” LOL
I’m sure it was uncomfortable for this woman at lunch to unload on you, but can you imagine (I bet you can) just how much she must have been suffering to unload on a person almost a complete stranger? OMG how she must have been hurting.
I hope the young lady will tell her mother and I hope her mother will be supportive of her rather than dismiss her feelings about this other woman. I remember finally getting up the guts to tell my egg donor about my sperm donor raping me when I was 19 and to this day, she still doesn’t believe me. She knows what a liar he is and yet she still chooses to believe HIM. She wouldn’t believe him if he said the world was round, but she believes him about THAT. It used to hurt me very much that she did not believe me. Now, I realize her belief or not doesn’t make a “tinker’s dam’s” worth of difference to me. I KNOW and that is all that matters.
At the time, I owned the shame of it, but no more. It was nothing I should have been ashamed of. Funny thing was, to his dying day he was fearful of anyone believing me, so fearful that he mounted a huge (in print even) smear campaign against me, but I have finally come to realize that I can only own the shame for things I have done wrong, the guilt for things I have done wrong….and then I must forgive myself and get on with the rest of my life. Someone else’s bad behavior is not mine to own, nor the guilt or shame of it. It doesn’t matter what others believe or don’t believe that makes it REAL. It is what I BELIEVE.
Erin my dear you are an inspiration to everyone here! I’m glad that your kids are listening, and spreading the word lilke ripples from a stone thrown in a pond. You may never even know the number of people that your experience will help not only through yourself but through the wisdom your children are gaining from YOUR EXAMPLE. (((HUGS)))) and always my prayers for you and everyone here at LF.
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amber says:
EB!!! That’s fantastic news!! I’m so happy for you! Maybe once I find the little shit that stole my car..I can send him your way and you can foster him for a while!
You do have amazing advice! I’m happy to hear that your son in expressing his feelings and opening up to you…That’s HUGE!! Congrats and keep working on him…I think he’s a lucky young man to have you as a mother!!
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amber says:
Good news everybody!!!! Apparently the little shit that stole my car had seconds thoughts after I reported it stolen. His dad sent him a text message telling him that I had reported it stolen and I guess that scared him. He agreed to drop my car off at his dad’s on the condition that he didn’t have to talk to anyone. So he dropped it off and split. Whatever…it’s already been reported that he stole it, so now he’s on the run, just making the trouble he’s already in worse, and his luck will catch up with him eventually. It’s not my problem anymore!!! But I have my car back!!! And luckily he didn’t strip it…in fact his dad felt so bad, that he bought me a set of new hubcaps cuz I was missing 2..and he completely detailed it and did WAY more work on it that I was going to have done because I couldn’t afford to!!! I’m just glad to have it back in one piece. Seriously though…what was this kid thinking???? That he was going to get away with this?? Did he not think that I would report it?? I was just going to be ok with him stealing my car??? What a moron.
What a day…LOL…ok well thanks everyone again for all the support and advice. Just thought I’d update you with the good news! YAY!!
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Hecates path says:
Erin… what a WONDERFUL post! enjoy your proud mama moment – you’ve earned it and so much more through the school of hard knocks! ITA with your son -you’d be a wonderful “shrinky dink” as my friend calls our psychiatrists. Even if med/psychol school doesn’t sound good to you, you’d also be one hell of a therapist, too! At the same time, you don’t need a degree or certificate to continue doing/giving therapy sessions with those who need it! It is absolutely wonderful that your son values you as a source of help and support for his friends in need… and that he is reflecting the genuine goodness, kindness, and truthfulness, that you have instilled in him! Keep up the good work, Erin…you do us proud!
HP
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Isabell says:
ERIN!!!!!!!!!
I’m covered from head to two with goosbumps… Wheeeewwww what a moment for you. Rejoice, for your dedicated efforts are paying off. I feel like doing a victory dance. What a monumental breakthrough… YOU ARE AN AWESOME MOM!!!! Bravo, my dear!… BRAVO!!!!
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henry says:
god is great. beer is good. people are crazy.
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shabbychic says:
EB, your son sounds fabulous! He is right, you do help a lot of people!!
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ErinBrock says:
Thanks guys! It has given me much to think about!
Shrinky dink…..I love it!!!
This is the same kids that….not so far away…..would say….OH MOM…..Don’t go all therapist on me!
I appreciate all of your kind words….Thank you!
XXOO
EB
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Isabell says:
Amber,
Great News! (though I was kinda hoping you’d end up with the kid’s cute little Honda for your trouble. ::grins::)
God works in mysterious ways. This kid needed a wake-up call, and you needed repairs done to your car. Go figure.
And, we all needed to be reminded when people do bad things to us, it is our obligation to do what is right, for ourselves, and not protect the preditor at our expense.
I didn’t report the physical abuse, the choking me until I nearly passed out, the bruises all over my back, and legs, the threats of being forced to live on the street, and worse against my life. It didn’t happen all the time, just more toward the end. He promised he would change. By the time I had enough, while he was in hand-cuffs, he lied through his teeth, and I was arrested (I was clearly, without a doubt, the one injured). What did I do? I went dead silent. A reflects from my earliest years. “If you tell anyone, much worse is going to happen to you.”
When we went to court and I pled not guilty… the threats came again, only this time, from him. “You are going to force your kids to testify against their own father?” The kids were the witnesses. They were so young. How could I do this to them? He cried, begged, made promises of sweeping change and enlightenment, and claimed if I didn’t plead gulty to one count of corporal punishment, it would be my fault our children’s lives would fall apart.
I didn’t do the right thing, for me. As noble as I believed my self sacrifice was, it was the worst mistake — EVER! Not only didn’t it protect my kids, I am still being haunted by it.
My daughter just read me pages from her journal that she had written on this fateful night. She was enraged at her father. She spelled out the abuse she witness her father inflict upon me. She spelled out her horror, watching me being put into a police car after what he had done to me, after she had to help me get up off the ground, where he had knocked me down. She wrote how she had never seen me do anything to striking back, or even try to defend myself.
Because I didn’t defend myself, legally. Because I didn’t report the abuse. Because I paid the price for his crime against me… I may lose this brand new job. In the new hire paperwork I filled out today, there was a concent form to be signed. They do extensive background checks: Criminal, credit, and DMV. Even though my charge was a mistermeanor, and has since been dismissed. It still shows up when doing a criminal background check, as dismissed. I am sick to my stomach.
After reading what my daughter was able to write in her journal back then, about what happened, my excuses for not reporting him, and then going silent when I had the chance, was not only at my expense, but at my kids expense, too.
Even if it feels unkind, scarry, or makes other’s uncomfortable, we have to tell the truth to the authorities, police, whomever, when we’ve been violated. PERIOD!!!!!!
Amber… I’m proud of you. You DID the RIGHT thing, for yourself.
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Isabell says:
henry…
LMAOROLF.. YOU said it!…
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henry says:
shrinky dink it’s good when someone listen’s too us – especially when we are speaking from the school of hard knocks – way to go MOM~!
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amber says:
Thanks Isabell..I aprreciate it! And I was kinda hoping for the cute honda too!! LOL. But I can’t even complain compared to your story. You’re so strong for what you had to go through. I can’t even imagine..all I got was my crappy car stolen..and in the end it came back better than when i sent it to him. You’re right God does work in mysterious ways. I truly believe that. I’m glad that we have both been able to grow from our experiences and have learned to stick up for OURSELVES. I talked to a counselour today and that’s all I keep saying..is that it’s time to look out for ME. So I’m doing it little by little. Maybe this was God’s way of testing me to see if I would stick up for myself?!?!? And look..as soon as I did, I got my car back with new hubcaps!! LOL! I guess I’ll just pretend that’s what it was!! hehe.
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skylar says:
Amber, you don’t have to pretend. that was God speaking to you. You did the right thing, you called the cops. Do you ever wonder why he wanted you to wait til THURSDAY?
The sociopath doesn’t fall far from the tree. I know your dad is friends with this guy but if his kid is a P and he was going to ask you to risk you asset,… that doesn’t speak highly of him.
God has saved my sorry ass so many times. I can’t take credit for anything good that has happened to me, only the bad.
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amber says:
Sky..you’re totally right…I asked my dad the same thing…the kid was missing with my car since last week and his friend didn’t bother to call my dad and tell him anything!! My dad found out yesterday and called me after he found out!!! So he knew my car was stolen a week ago and didn’t bother to say a thing!!! You can guess that’s the last time he works on my car. And that’s my new phrase..lol..”the sociopath doesn’t fall far from the tree.” So true.
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henry says:
Amber I had a car stolen years ago. Was at a shopping mall and when I went out to find my car it was gone. I looked and looked thinking maybe I forgot where I parked. I remember feeling so violated. It was somewhat the same feeling the x P gave me when I realized what he was. Just total violation. They found my car two weeks later and it was ok, trashed but ok. I sold it. I didn’t like the karma in the car. I am glad you have your wheels back and you did the right thing,,,hugz
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OxDrover says:
Dear Amber,
I hadn’t gotten that he knew th ecar was gone for days before he told your dad! AH!!!!!! I SEEeeeee SAID THE BLINID MAN AS HE PICKED UP HIS HAMMER AND SAW. Hummmmm???
Yep, the dad was protecting the kid fo rdays????—and maybe he even approved of the kid taking your car who knows and then the kid stayed out later than he was supposed to and the dad got lworried. Or maybe the kid took your car to go pull a robbery or drug deal. There could have been a lot worse things happen. There was some “reason” he was driving your car instead of the cute little Honda.
Well, at least you got the car back and fixed.
Makes me wonder though, if dad sent sonny a TEXT message and sonny came right back home, why didn’t DADDY DO THIS IN THE FIRST PLACE? Interesting…..
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amber says:
Thanks Henry and Oxy…And Oxy I know I had a ton of questions too. Yes the dad woke up and my car was gone..his son was gone…my key was gone…so he put two and two together…and I understand him wanting to protect his kid, but he should of told me or my dad immediately. And he said he DID call and call and text and text his son..(well at least that’s what he told us)…but when he finally told the kid that I KNEW it was gone and I reported it stolen, and that if he got pulled over he would have been taken to jail, I guess that made him think twice. But yes, I agree, something shady was going on…he was using my car for SOMETHING. And he put some horrible cherry air freshener in my car…and now it reaks like a public restroom and I can’t get the smell out…oh oh…and there is a framed picture in my trunk?!?!?!?! Not mine!! Looks like it is from a hotel?!?!?! I’m thinking the kid went on some drug binge for a week and needed my car to hide out.. I don’t know and I guess I won’t ever know the whole truth. And yes Henry, I feel violated too. Like EWWWWW…what was going on in MY car. I don’t like it either. Luckily, I have another car that I keep here for when my sister is home from England…and I’ve been driving that one. I think I’ll keep driving that one. LOL.
And I’m so paranoid..I keep thinking well what if the kid had a key duplicated and he got my address off paperwork in my car….and he decides to come steal it again?!?!??! I hope not. I hope he’s not that smart. But I am glad it’s home, because I have to pick my sister up today in fact!!! And she’ll be here for the next month or so, so she’ll have something to drive while she’s here….yay!!! So just glad it’s home and in better shape than when I sent it to him! HA! Hugs guys!!
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OxDrover says:
The air freshener is obviously to COVER UP some kind of smell they didn’t want to have someone smell. Check your car over for any signs of anything that was left in it. You might even get the cops to have a drug dog check it out. I would not want you to be pulled over and the cops get the drug dog in and find drugs stashed somewhere they forget to get it out of. I AM PARANOID but I think in some cases it pays to be!
As for the picture, I would take that to the cops too, and maybe they will match it to some kind of THEFT that has been reported. THAT KID WAS UP TO NO GOOD and my guess is he was using YOUR car for some CRIME.
You can get the door/ignition locks changed and that might be a GOOD IDEA. Shouldn’t cost too much and might be a LIFE SAVER down the road.
I’m sorry that folks think it is “natural” for a father/mother to cover up for their kids’ illegal activities (felony) I TURNED MY KID IN TO THE COPS when I caught him with stolen things, rather than cover it up. I think any parent who covers for their kid (or anyone else) is PART AND PARCEL to the CRIME itself. It is AGAINST the law to cover for a crime. The ONLY time you don’t HAVE TO TESTIFY is if it is your husband/wife, and even then I think it is IMMORAL to NOT turn in a criminal act, even if it is NOT illegal. Plus, if you do cover up you can be considered AN ACCOMPLICE, isn’t that right Matt?
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skylar says:
Amber, under what circumstances did you dad find out about the stolen vehicle?
Was he contacted by the mechanic or did he call the mechanic first?
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amber says:
My dad just showed up at his house…and low and behold the car wasnt there!! So the mechanic (Dave) was obviously trying to cover his son’s ass. So like you said the Sociopath doesn’t fall far from the tree…My dad is pretty pissed at his buddy because he knew his son stole it and didn’t tell either one of us…My dad told him, I know you’re trying to protect you’re son…but I have to protect my daughter..So needless to say…I think they’re friendship is pretty damaged..and now we need to find a new mechanic!! HA!
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OxDrover says:
Dear Amber,
I am glad that your dad put your welfare and his friend’s behavior in the right slots.
I think having people for “friends” who will do DIS-honest things, even to “protect” their kid, is not a good idea.
At the very least, this man is ENABLING his son and in this case since car theft is a felony, as far as I am concerned, the DAD is as guilty as the kid for not calling you immediately with the news that the car had been stolen, and by whom.
So since your dad went there, the man was obviously going to completely cover it up if he could get his son to bring it back before you (or your father) knew.
DIS-hon4est behavior. NOPE! Not my friend, and I think your dad’s relationship with him ending is a good thing. At least maybe you can find an HONEST mechanic who won’t let your car be stolen and not report it. LOL
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skylar says:
Amber, my concern is that he told you to give him til Thursday. What did he know about THURSDAY that he wasn’t telling you? I have a feeling the dad was in on it. He used your car for a burglary or drug deal and no one would have known if your dad hadn’t shown up.
If the car had been seen and reported at a crime, the dad would have reported it stolen but not by his son. When the car was recovered, he would’ve said he knew nothing about it. P’s always have lots of layers in their little schemes. The car was one of the layers but you interrupted it.
Jesus said you will know the tree by the fruit it bears. This guy and his kid are both p-fruits, I hope your dad stays far away from them. Tell your dad about their masks. They all wear the mask of sanity.
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ErinBrock says:
Amber:
I’m confused…..
You DID get your car back? Or you DO NOT have your car and sonny still hasn’t shown up with it?
I’m not sure where I got lost…..
BUT……Have the father pay for the locks to get changed….ignition and doors! Small price to pay for theft!!!
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Donna Andersen says:
Please do not engage with predators. I am deleting the Evil Clown conversation.
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OxDrover says:
Erin,
GOOD idea about having sonny/daddy pay for the locks. Daddy should have secured the car, he didn’t tell amber or her father immediately, and only when he was “discovered” to be covering up. GOOD idea!
Thank you donna!
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Stayingsane says:
Donna
Interesting! I resonate with the description:
‘The person reacts with EMOTIONAL AROUSAL when reminded of the event. The characteristic symptoms resulting from the event are REPEATED INTRUSIVE MEMORIES and a persistent negative change in mental well-being. ‘
But I don’t experience it as a disorder, nor would I label it so. From my own experience, 4 months no contact with P The intrusive memories are fading, arousal when mentioned lessening, I’m feeling a little “bored” with it now and am spending longer amounts of time not thinking about the trauma…if I had read this 2 months ago I would have been alarmed and convinced I was in the grip of some mental disorder, but I am sure the reasons for being “bitter” are okay as deeply held beliefs are thrown up into the air only to fall and land “differently” leaving me with a greater handle on reality…it’s not bitterness, it’s the experience of the truth which hurts terribly but needs to be faced, integrated and leaving me with a greater clarity and up dated less naive deeply held beliefs like ….there are people out there who have no remorse. I need to be aware and vigilant. I have been hurt terribly but now I really get it, and I walk down the street armed with this experience not embittered by it.
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amber says:
Hey guys…I’ve been away for the last 24 hours..my sister just got home from England so it was nice to spend yesterday with her!! Thanks OX for filling Erin in. Yes..car is home…And Yes…dad’s friendship with bad, mechanic, enabling dad is over!! And good idea about having the locks and ignition changed. I’m going to look into that. And Sky..the mechanic dad didn’t ask for us to wait until Thursdsay…MY dad, trying to be a nice guy said he’d give him until Thursday and when my dad told me..I wasn’t too keen. I told my dad Dave was just as guilty as the son, and I didn’t think he deserved until Thursday and I reported it the next morning…then I informed Dave that I reported his son had stole it, and he relayed the message to the kid and I guess that scared him into bringing it back.. I’m just glad the whole thing is over…and when the cops finally catch up with the kid, then I’ll press charges. I’m not going to let him get away with this. So in time….it’ll catch up with him. Well, I’m off to hang out with my sister today. It’s good to have her here. I haven’t seen her in 3 months, so we’ve got some catching up to do. I’ll check in later!! Hope you all have a wonderful day!! HUGS!!!
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OxDrover says:
Dear Stayingsane,
Your post is very empowering! Good way to look at things. Your vigilence to protect yourself now that you know that there ARE evil people out there is what I call “caution”–”once burned, twice shy”–my granny would have said.
Unfortunately, there are those people who STAY locked in the stage of bitterness and do not progress on to successful healing.
I can’t remember the name of the article, but Dr. Leedom did one on the “defeated mouse” that was interesting reserarch.
Glad you are here, Staying sane! Thanks for a good post!
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ICthruhim says:
Hi everyone, it was one year ago today that my SP attacked and assaulted my son in his bedroom. Today I actually spent the day in my son’s room, preparing to paint the walls and give the room a fresh new look. As I was doing that, I thought how different it felt in that room today as opposed to one year ago when there was screaming, tears, pain, and broken furniture. It has also been 1 year of NC! I’m proud of myself for that.
However, earlier in the week, the foster dad who is caring for my son in his theraputic mentoring home informed me that he had a visit from my SP’s parents asking him to prepare an affadavit basically describing how troubled my son is, etc so they can use it for the SP’s appeal. They say their son has been wrongfully convicted because we all lied. I still find hard to believe how they continue to support him 100%. Talk about enabling! Well they live in complete denial. Of course the foster dad refused to help.
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shabbychic says:
ICthruhim, Congrats on your 1 year of NC! You sound like you are doing so much better! I can just imagine the SP blaming your son for what happened, his parents sound as dumb as nails. Yea for the foster dad!! I hope your son is feeling better also. What a good idea to paint the walls!!!!!
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Isabell says:
Stayingsane,
“…it’s not bitterness, it’s the experience of the truth which hurts terribly but needs to be faced, integrated and leaving me with a greater clarity and up dated less naive deeply held beliefs like ….there are people out there who have no remorse. I need to be aware and vigilant. I have been hurt terribly but now I really get it, and I walk down the street armed with this experience not embittered by it.”
Insightful, empowering, profound!
Thank you.
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7stepstoheaven says:
I can see this really touched a nerve.
“The person’s response to the event must involve feelings of embitterment, rage, and helplessness. ”
I am weeping as I read this because I have felt this way my whole life. I am 53 years old, and I have suffered from depression, endometriosis, migraines, fibromyalgia and chronic
pain most of my life. I had a good career managing computer networks but was forced to retire on disability 10 years ago because of intractable pain. I was able to work most of the first 10 years with fibromyalgia, for which I am thankful.
I and the rest of my family have been devastated by psychopaths before I was even born. I have become bitter because now I can see in my siblings the same damaged patterns. I suddenly feel that I am surrounded by narcissists and sociopaths and the healing I expected will never take place. Am I paranoid? It is an awful feeling to know that most of your family will stab you in the back (and have) at the first opportunity. I do not know who to trust anymore.
When my mother was home for the summer before her senior year in college, she was raped by a “date.” Because this was in the 1950′s, she had to carry the child to term and give it up for adoption. Although her family was supportive, she felt a lot of shame, because she basically had to “hide” from society during the pregnancy. She felt she was “damaged goods,” which I think set her up for exploitation by other sociopaths. She met my father through a friend when he was still in med school, was completely charmed by him (he was a musician and the life of the party) and got married. She also has some narcissistic tendencies – a predilection for rage if you made her angry.
My father was a drunken sociopath (and psychiatrist) who beat my mother constantly – until her face was so punched up she would not leave the house. I was the first child, then my two younger sisters were born before he died in an auto crash when I was seven, one sister five, and the youngest not even two. She tells me stories like (when I was a baby): “He chased me around the house with a knife and said he was going to kill me. I ran to a neighbors, he was then taken in chains to the navy brig,” leaving me to wonder “where was I when this was happening?” He also tried to commit suicide numerous times.
I asked her yesterday “Did my father ever tell you he was sorry after these incidents?” and she said not at all, he acted like it didn’t happen. I guess he could ignore her black-and-blue face. That’s just when I decided, just yesterday, that he was indeed a sociopath.
I know I suffer from delayed and chronic PTSD. My sister,
who was only five when my father died, remembers a lot of things that I have no memory of. I have only 2 memories – one when I was at least 6 – I was standing ouside of my house afraid to go in, because there was yelling and the crash of things breaking through the kitchen window. Another memory came back to me a couple of years ago – in the middle of the day on a weekend, I remember hiding in a closet while there was yelling going on down the hallway in my parents room. I was in there with a pair of blunt scissors, making small even cuts into the hem of a blue dress I had. I think I remember this because I wore that blue dress for several years, apparently because my mother never noticed the cuts. The most vivid memory of this blue dress being that I was sent home from school in the fifth grade because the dress was too short. They were trying to outlaw miniskirts but I was just a skinny late- bloomer wearing a dress she had outgrown. Somehow the existence of that blue dress connects my memories together – memories of fear, shame and humiliation.
I also remember (almost a pre-verbal memory)of dissociating into a shaft of sunlight coming into a window onto the floor, and I was trying to get “a piece of sun.” I can dissociate with the best of ‘em. I do it all the time now because it is useful when my pain gets to be unbearable. I take some meds but all pain meds exacerbate my depression. It is hard to have much of a life when you can’t leave the house for 3 or 4 days at a time.
About 2 years after my father died, my mother remarried. He was just getting out of the air force, tall, handsome, charming, and 10 years younger. She was struggling to work and raise 3 children after being widowed, so she was eager to find someone to help her. He replaced my father, teaching me how to ride a bike, going camping, hiking and sailing with me, and brought a younger crowd of interesting visitors to my house. He bought me my first surfboard, wetsuit, and fancy french racing bike. He taught me how to drive. I did however, resent the way my mother catered to his needs before any of us kids, but I thought as a familiy we were having a pretty good life. My mother had his child, a son, when I was thirteen years old, and he was doted on by all of his sisters.
When I was nineteen and away at college, the truth came out. First, he left my mom high and dry for a coworker who abandoned her infant son for him (he’s probably in jail now from what I have heard). My mother had inherited some money from my grandmother and he (and my mom) managed to spend it all. All she had left was a 28-foot boat to sell. I had to go to the SocSecurity office to have my father’s death benefits put back in my name so I could finish school. No one had told me what was happening, but I managed to borrrow some money to pay for that semester’s books. My mom still had my younger sister, about sixteen, and my younger brother, about seven, to raise. My oldest sister became depressed and suicidal for a time – she now works as a psych nurse.
I remember this moment with such clarity – after the death of my father, this was a turning point in my life. My 17-year old sister sat on the couch with me, and told me that this man had sexually abused my little sister from the time she was THREE YEARS OLD!! This was happening in the family I was living with – six people in a three-bedroom house. What was most devastating to me was that I thought he was a good stepfather, although I had begun to see some flaws on the money-management side. This was in the late 1970′s, before sexual abuse was a household word. I had never heard of such a thing,
or even imagined such a thing.
I have never been so enraged in my life. I had fantasies of getting a gun and shooting him. My youngest sister became an
alcoholic when she grew up, and had a mental breakdown in college, which we all supported her through. However, she was so brilliant that she ended up in med school, and is now a forensic psychiatrist, who idolizes our real father. She is so deeply damaged, but she has a brilliant facade. She manipulated my other sister into cutting me out of the family, because of a chat I had with her on the phone – she sent me the coldest email I have ever received “I cannot allow my family to have anything to do with you because you are an alcoholic, slurring your words when I spoke to you on the phone.” I who never drink more than 2, was in intractable pain when she spoke with me, going through several failed surgeries to get endometriosis under control. It was next to my bowel, outside of my uterus – the pain was agonizing and horrible.
This event sent me back into therapy for three years, and I have recovered to the best of my ability. I used to visit my younger sister when she was pregnant and raising her 2 sons. Then bam,
it was over. I was the doting aunt, never did anything innapropriate on my visits. But my other sister followed her lead, because she thinks my youngest sister is smarter.
“I asked her, when she said I was an alcoholic, you knew better. Why didn’t you stand up for me?” She did not have a good answer. She allowed herself to be manipulated by a sociopath, which my youngest sister clearly is. As a result of this, I have not seen my niece and 4 nephews in five years (both families live in another state.) My youngest sister also wrote my mother out of her life for ten years – partly because of her also sociopathic husband she has now divorced. As soon as she was divorcing him, she wanted to renew contact with my mother. My mother was very ill and in the hospital near death a few years ago, and she never contacted her at all.
My younger brother is an irresponsible narcissist, charming and
full of love when you see him, making promises he doesn’t keep,
entering disastrous relationships on a whim. He never returns my phone calls or email, maybe because he owes me money! He hasn’t told his girlfriend that he is still married and paying support to a woman we thought he divorced years ago. I am not going to perpetuate anyone else’s lie, no matter who it is, because I like this girl.
And yesterday I learned that my older sister’s marriage of 18 years is on the verge of breaking up because her house-husband, who we all liked, is now becoming an untrustworthy
person and drinking alcohol to excess, not coming home, etc. She wanted them to enter counseling but he will not participate, which is the death knell, I expect. This flabbergasts me, because who would expect their husband to become an unstable alcoholic after so many years of marriage?
My first marriage of 8 years was to a deadbeat narcissist, who ruined my initial career and financially ruined me. I married him after the shock of my stepfather’s incest because I did not trust my own judgement any more and was terrified of dating anybody else. I remember looking at him while he was sleeping and thinking, “are you capable of doing something like this too?”
I had absolutely no way to know how to ever trust anyone again.
How could this incest be happening in my own home for 10 years and I did not ever suspect a thing? My mother came home one day when the youngest, at age ten, tried to commit suicide by eating oleander leaves. My mother begged her to tell her what was wrong, but she would not say anything. Who knows what my stepfather threatened her with to keep her from telling?
I am close to my mother despite all of this because she is the only person in my family that I would trust. I would never want any of these people to have any control over my life because they have been so nasty almost without provocation. This scares me because I am very disabled and could use some help, but it won’t be from any of them.
I am now newly burned with a one-month email and real-life relationship to a charming, outwardly respectable man who I felt I had so much in common with. When I went to visit him a couple of weeks ago it became obvious to me. I started to get muscle spasms in my neck after a day and a half, when it became obvious that he was incapable of intimacy or any real feeling for others. He paraded me around his town like a trophy, and it really disgusted me. Anyone who spent any time with him was going to have to live under his rules, and his agenda. I’m not a submissive southern girl, so I bristled at that, then wondered who could spend any quality time with this man?
He spoke of old “girlfriends” like they were a cast of thousands.
I should have seen trouble immediately, and in hindsight I did,
but was too flattered and infatuated to pay attention. It did not last long but it seemed to take everything out of me.
Yes, I am very bitter. I have a difficult time seeing any good people in life. I will never really trust anyone again ever. If I see someone who is doing good things in the community, my first thought is – “but what is the picture of his dark, malevolent underbelly?” i AM IN MENTAL PAIN AND SUFFERING EVERYDAY BECAUSE IF I THINK OF MY FAMILY ALL I CAN SEE ARE THE LIES, THE BETRAYALS, THE MANIPULATIONS. I have tried very hard to heal myself but I am beginning to believe it will never be possible.
Thank you folks for being here. At least I can let go of some of these dark emotions.
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