When does bitterness become a disorder?
PDF The damage done to strangers, lovers and family members by sociopaths includes physical, emotional, psychological, social and financial harm. Over the years I have encountered many people whose lives have been damaged in this way.
The victimization alone is very sad, but people suffer not only from the actual damage but from their psychological and emotional reactions to it. It is one thing to lose a large sum of money or time that you can’t ever get back. The losses happened and are permanently in the past. It is another thing for a person’s present to be occupied by that loss.
The Aftermath is often more extensive than the victimization itself
It is my observation that for many victims this aftermath lasts a long time and includes considerable dysfunction and this dysfunction causes additional damage. Many have used the label “PTSD” for these psychological, emotional and physical reactions to victimization. Although I agree that diagnosis may fit some, I have never been entirely comfortable with it applied to this context. The reason is that PTSD technically applies to only to situations that are “life-threatening.” PTSD is an anxiety disorder as opposed to an “adjustment disorder” and some symptoms that victims have are not based in “anxiety.”
Psychologist and Professor, Dr Michael Linden, of the Research Group Psychosomatic Rehabilitation, Berlin, Germany has proposed a new disorder be added to the DSM. This disorder, termed Post-Traumatic Embitterment Disorder or PTED describes the reactions I have seen in many people victimized by sociopaths.
I thought seriously about this blog for two weeks before posting it because suggesting there is such a thing as PTED is far from politically correct and sincerely, I would not want anyone to get the idea that I blame victims for their aftermath symptoms. On the other hand, I hope that those who have the symptoms Dr. Linden identifies will consider addressing them. I am also not in favor of the medicalization of common psychological reactions and so am not rushing to advocate PTED be declared an official diagnosis.
What is PTED?
Just as PTSD is thought to result from the threat of loss of life, PTED results from a different kind of threat. Dr. Linden states regarding PTED, “The core pathogenic mechanism is not the provocation of anxiety, but a violation of basic beliefs. This threat to deeply held beliefs, acts upon the patient as a powerful psychological shock, which triggers a prolonged feeling of embitterment and injustice.”
For victims of sociopath’s the sociopath’s behavior violates core beliefs about human nature and sense of safety. That theme is discussed over and over on this website.
Diagnostic and associated features
The essential feature of posttraumatic embitterment disorder is the development of clinically significant emotional or behavioral symptoms following a single exceptional, though normal negative life event. The person knows about the event and perceives it as the cause of illness. The event is experienced as unjust, as an insult, and as a humiliation. The person’s response to the event must involve feelings of embitterment, rage, and helplessness. The person reacts with emotional arousal when reminded of the event. The characteristic symptoms resulting from the event are repeated intrusive memories and a persistent negative change in mental well-being. Affect modulation is unimpaired and normal affect can be observed if the person is distracted…
Besides prolonged embitterment individuals may display negative mood, irritability, restlessness, and resignation. Individuals may blame themselves for the event, for not having prevented it, or for not being able to cope with it. Patients may show a variety of unspecific somatic complaints, such as loss of appetite, sleep disturbance, pain.
PTED is said to be a disabling condition and is very difficult to treat.
Additional comments
Although I read two of Dr. Linden’s papers (see below) I was disappointed that he failed to define what it means to be bitter. How does bitterness differ from other reactions like anxiety or grief? Bitter is not an emotion it is a taste. Is he suggesting that victims have an actual bitter taste in their mouths? In studying dictionary definitions I can offer that bitterness is unique in that there is an anger/hostility component- synonym resentful, hostile feeling.
Provided he can more precisely define bitterness, I think Dr. Linden may be communicating something useful here. That is the idea that we have to mobilize our resources to move beyond events that threaten us. Events that threatened core beliefs may be very traumatic for people. It is important for victims to examine their core beliefs in recovering from a relationship with a sociopath.
I am interested in your reactions to this proposed diagnosis.
References
Linden, Michael, Kai Baumann, Barbara Lieberei, and Max Rotter. 2009. “The Post-Traumatic Embitterment Disorder Self-Rating Scale (PTED Scale).” Clinical Psychology & Psychotherapy 16, no. 2: 139-147.
Linden, Michael, Kai Baumann, Max Rotter, and Barbara Schippan. 2008. “Diagnostic criteria and the standardized diagnostic interview for posttraumatic embitterment disorder (PTED).” International Journal of Psychiatry in Clinical Practice 12, no. 2: 93-96.
written by Liane Leedom, M.D. • Permalink •
OxDrover says:
Dear 7steps,
You are very articulate about your situation and your life. I’m sorry that you have had so much trouble and drama in your life. I can understand why you would be bitter. However, I don’t think bitterness as a way of life is the way any of us would choose to live if there is an alternative, and I think there is.
I think there is opportunity for healing at any age (I’m 62 and also grew up in a “covey” of Ps) as long as your mental facilties are intact, and yours obviously are, so i would suggest that you stay around here and read the archived articles.
Again, welcome.
(Report abusive comment)
geminigirl says:
Dearest Oxy, Just wanted to say a big “Thank you!” again for all your helpful advice. Im not there yet, but Im on my way!
Yes, I did make list of things to be grateful for and its very long! Im so blessed. yesterday our new “adopted” adult kids came for lunch, and what a wonderful day we all had! David cooked marinated chicken kebabs in plum sauce on the Barbie, and they were YUM! I did a big bowl of fried rice, salad, grilled bell pepprs in olive oil, garlic and basil, with Naan bread, and after we had waffles on our new waffle machine, with strawberries and ice cream, then coffee and mint chocs. Abbas is over 6 feet, witha huge appetite, as he works so hard.Roya does too,she is training to be a hairdresser, and does 3 days at tech and 3 as an unpaid apprentice in a hair salon. She is doing very well. They are so sweet, loving, and appreciative. Abbas always hugs me and says,”Thanks for everything Mum! We love you!” Roya too, hugs and kisses us all the time. And they are such fun, and
we laugh a lot together! David and I are making up for 25 years of no love from my 2 P daughters. Now we have areal loving family who appreciate us, and it feels so GOOD! They are coming over for xmas day, and also new Year, when theye are going to stay overnight.So, I wont be dreading Xmas this year! My lovely son in law is bringing the 3 kids over in the new year, so Ill save their gifts till then. God is good.
Trying hard NOT to think of my P daughters! {you can bet both your asses, they wont be thinking of me
) Yea I got told that by many including the Police here, but unfortunately he is the Persuader and no doubt he has got the school to believe him that Im just an insane bitter bitch!
What Im saying though, is just be aware of the tremendous stress, particularly if the P has family and friends there who will back up the P and want to kill you, and more so if you live on your own as I do. I could never go through it again.
Plus, theres some cultural differences between the UK and Denmark. Denmark is too open for its own good. Im sorry but its wrong for a man of 25 to want to date a girl of 15. as she apparently was when they actually started “dating”. He is now nearly 40, but I dont think his taste has changed …. And its also wrong, that a man who can think about starting up a sex business, even if its legal here, can go into a school and teach kids …. Its just so NOT right.
(Report abusive comment)
myloverwasavictim says:
Hello all,
This is my first post. I’ve been reading and learning so much. First, my heart goes out to everyone here. So many of us are carrying the psychological scars as the result of various forms of abuse from these viscious and evil individuals. As you can see by my user name, my lover was a victim of a female sociopath, and he is still trying to heal. I’ve come here in hopes of gaining some understanding in what he is experiencing, and what I can do to support him.
That being said, I have to wonder about some of the things I’ve read in the article above, pertaining to this:
“The reason is that PTSD technically applies to only to situations that are “life-threatening.” PTSD is an anxiety disorder as opposed to an “adjustment disorder” and some symptoms that victims have are not based in “anxiety.””
While I agree that some of the symptoms exhibited by victims of sociopaths (I assume that the “S” I se in many posts stands for sociopaths?), I believe that the actions of sociopaths is absolutely and completely life-threatening. The sociopath violates the core beliefs of his or her victims, causing severe emotional and psychological distress, which threatens the victim’s sense of self; this, to me, is life-threatening.
As the S plays the psychological games, the psyche of the victims (I hope the use of the word victim is not seen as insulting. I see the ones who are taken in by sociopaths no different from the victims of violent crimes. I mean no disrespect toward anyone who has suffered.) are being damaged in ways that other people will never see, experience or comprehend.
I believe that individuals who are victimized can and do feel as though they are in a life-threatening situation, regardless of being in actual physical danger. The damage done by way of psychological and emotional abuse shakes one to their very core, and causes one to question everything about themselves.
I feel that we tend to take people at their word, we want to believe that there is goodness within those we associate with, and that those who love us and whom we love in return have our best interests at heart. Therefore, as the S begins weaving their web of lies, deceit, and psychological torture, we buy into it and believe it, because after all – we love the facade that we are presented with, and that facade “loves” us. It is human nature for us to take our loved one at his or her word, that we naturally believe in the one we love, and that we take their words to heart. The words and actions of the S begin to chip away at who we are within our souls.
This is why I believe that PTSD is an apt diagnosis for what is experienced by those who have been crushed by the actions of a sociopath.
“Just as PTSD is thought to result from the threat of loss of life, PTED results from a different kind of threat. Dr. Linden states regarding PTED, “The core pathogenic mechanism is not the provocation of anxiety, but a violation of basic beliefs. This threat to deeply held beliefs, acts upon the patient as a powerful psychological shock, which triggers a prolonged feeling of embitterment and injustice.”
For victims of sociopath’s the sociopath’s behavior violates core beliefs about human nature and sense of safety. ”
The sociopath kills their victims one word and one action at a time.
Having been the victim of psychological and emotional abuse as a child, I believe that words wound much more deeply and completely than physical injuries ever have.
Being emotionally abused causes one to question EVERYTHING. I questioned everything about myself, my reason for existing, and whether or not my soul deserved to be on this earth. My abuse was at the hands of my father, the one a little girl should be able to look to for love and protection, not the one who nearly broke my spirit, my mind, and my soul. My father threw me away completely when I was a teenager, but I hid from him and everyone else the fire inside me, the fact that no matter what he did to me, or what anyone else did to me, I knew I would never throw myself away. I knew there was goodness in my soul, and something inside me told me that I was not worthless, useless and a piece of sh#t and all the other horrible things that were drilled into me for my entire life.
I guess what I’m trying to express here that there are many ways of taking someone’s life – just because the physical body may appear to be functioning perfectly fine, it doesn’t mean that the spirit and soul residing within that body has not been wounded to the point of emotional and psychological death.
I wish you all peace, healing and love.
(Report abusive comment)
OxDrover says:
Dear My,
Thank you for your post, and welcome here. You also are a (former) victim, and obviously have a great deal of empathy for victims, as well as some understanding of actually being a victim.
While you can support your lover as he heals, the healing is up to him. He must do that for himself. We all do and healing is a “do it yourself” project.
I don’t know how long he has been out of the relationship, but it takes time and a great deal of work to repari the damage done to our “souls”—
I would suggest that you encourage him/her to come here to LF and to read and read and learn, KNOWLEDGE is POWER and we must retake our power back from them.
Again, welcome to LF, it is a healing place.
(Report abusive comment)
geminigirl says:
my love s avictim
, Both of my adult daughters are female sociopaths, and I can tell you I have finally, thanks to all Ive learned on LF come to beieve finally I cant help them but need to avoid them both for the rest of my life. I have learned so much since june his year, when I first found this wonderful healing support group.
I learned about ‘gaslighting’ which Id never hear of,ie, trying to convince you black is white and up is down, totally crazy making,.I didnt know it had a name. I feel that FINALLY Im emerging from a 30 year long nightmare with them. Ive suffered physical.mental, and emotional abuse from them.{Physical abuse only from one of them.}For years and years I gave and gave and gave,trying in vain to buy their love, I now see they never ever loved me, they only used me.If I give in and contact the older one again, I know it will destroy me. Im finally emerging into a nice, peaceful, sane, normal life, and I dont miss the drama, the lies, the con tricks, the abuse, the cruelty. truly, I think in some ways women psychopaths are as bad as if not worse than men.All the very best to you both, and Love, gem.
(Report abusive comment)
myloverwasavictim says:
Dear Oxy,
Thank you for your kind words. I’ve read so many of your posts, and you have a great deal of wisdom to offer.
As a victim of a different type of abuse (although I need to research more – my father may well have been a sociopath) I do understand that we all heal at our own pace, and in our own manner. My purpose here is to learn more about the sick individuals who prey upon those who love them, and to understand the depth of my lover’s pain.
I can sometimes see a haunted look in his eyes, and it touches me deeply, but it also chills me. I know most of his story, but I know there is still so much he hasn’t told me. I don’t pry, and I listen any time he needs to talk, and more importantly, I believe him. I don’t know how many people know the details of what happened, and I don’t know how many of those people believe what she did to him. But I do.
I want to be supportive to him as he heals his heart and soul…and one day, when he’s clawed his way out of the depths of hell, I hope he looks my way. I hope he sees the feelings inside me that I have for him, that my feelings are real, and that my heart is pure. Whomever he gives his heart to once it heals will be a lucky woman indeed; if that woman is me, I will cherish his heart as the precious gift it is – I see the beauty that is inside him. If it is not me, then I wish him to find the woman who loves him purely, deeply, and forever.
(Report abusive comment)
myloverwasavictim says:
Dear Gem,
Thank you for your love and support. I haven’t read your story, so I don’t know the details, however I can feel the pain your words contain. Is there an area on the site where members have posted their stories? I am still feeling my way around the site trying to figure out what and where everything is. All I have read so far is both heartbreaking, and heartwarming – so many have been victimized, but so many are finding that fighting spirit deep within and are battling their personal demons very well.
I have a story of witnessing and being victim of many years of abuse at the hands of my father. Perhaps I will share it one day, and gain some insight into myself.
As a woman, I know the special bond between a mother and her daughter, and while it’s horrible that the bonds between you and your daughters have been severed, it sounds as though you are doing well in your decision to sever that tie. You sound as though you are a very strong and beautiful woman, and that you are healing from your pain and heartache.
(Report abusive comment)
geminigirl says:
Dear mylover,
if you are interested in my story, the main points about it are on the following blogs. Hope it doesnt bore you!
They are on1} Psychopathy in Women, Aug. 28th 09.
“Feeling guilty about a sociopathic stepson @nd July,09.{My blog was on 9th July,09].
“Fri, 31st july,09.and 2nd august,09″.We can only do what we can do”‘
“After the sociopath, how do we heal?” part 2 .22nd june,23rd june,26th june,30th June,{2 blogs of mine.}
plus 6th july,09.
My main stories are all in this blog,”After the sociopath, how do we heal?
(Report abusive comment)
geminigirl says:
I lost part of this blog, but the main stories of mine are in the blog, “After the sociopath, how do we heal” part 10, Forgiving.
the dates again are 16th,17th,18th,19th 20th,21st June,09. The longest one being on Thurs. 18th June, 09 and fri. 19th June.also 23rd june,and 9th and 10 th of July in the same blog.
Love,
GemXX
(Report abusive comment)
geminigirl says:
Mylover,
Also if you are interested, right at the beginning when I first left my abusive P husband, this blog is on :
“Recovering from the sociopath,acceptance,and focussing on now.”
Date of my blog,16th November, 09.
love,Gem.
(Report abusive comment)
myloverwasavictim says:
Thank you Gem. I will certainly read them tomorrow.
(Report abusive comment)
OxDrover says:
Dear My,
Even though your friend/lover has been abused, it is important that he not abuse in return, or tha tyou excuse any abuse of you by him.
I am not saying this is the case with your lover, but it is common practice for psychopaths to POSE AS VICTIMS when in fact, they are the abusers themselves, or they are co-abusers in a relationship where both parties are abusers, and they just happened to get the worst of it.
In the book “The Sociopath next door” which I recommend you read, the author poses that when you are feeling “pity” for someone, many tmies (she says always) are dealing with a psychopath.
Not too long ago myself, I was approached by a woman who was an “abuse victim” as she presented herself, but was in fact, an abuser herself, looking for my “pity” for her, to make me vulnerable to her using me.
It is important that though we feel empathy for victims of abuse, that we also not enable them to depend on others for their healing, and do not excuse bad behavior in them because they have “formerly been victims.” It is not uncommon for abusive and dysfunctional relationships to be of two abusers using each other.
I’m not saying that this is the case with your friend/lover, but just be AWARE of this being the case. One of the common things is that a psychopath will present their last lover (who had tossed them out or whom they had deserted) as the “wicked witch of the west” in a lying smear campaign and then present themselves as this very pitiful victim who was robbed—-here on LF we accept a bloggers word that they were victimized, but occasionally someone comes here who is pretty obviously an “abused-abuser,” but others can cloak themselves in “pretty words” on the computer, while in real life they themselves are a psychopath wearing a very well designed mask.
That is one reason that meeting someone on the internet for dating is so dangerous as these people can present themselves under any guise through the computer.
I hope for your sake that your friend/lover is not a covert psychopath presenting as a victim, and I hope for his sake, assuming he is genuine, that he is able to heal. If he is truly a victim, it may take him a good while to sort things out. For victims, it is usually not a good idea to get into another relationship for quite some time. The healing isn’t just about the past relationship, but is about our own growth.
(Report abusive comment)
myloverwasavictim says:
Dear Oxy,
I’m sorry I haven’t responded sooner. I read your words shortly after you posted them, and they’ve certainly given me pause.
I do have a great deal of thinking and soul searching to do, and I appreciate your insight. You are a wonderful source of support. Thank you.
(Report abusive comment)
OxDrover says:
Dear My,
The thing is with [psychopaths you never know what you are seeing? Is it real or fake? Are they truly a victim, or are they an abuser POSING as a victim?
Here on LF we generally accept someone who blogs here as WHAT THEY SAY THEY ARE, but occasionally a P-troll from the “let’s pull LF’s chains and lulz them” comes here “posing” as a victim or just another blogger, but it soon becomes apparent that they are here to argue and cause trouble. We can generally spot them rather quickly though. (that’s why we have the report abusive comment” button) and until donna gets time to block them we DO NOT RESPOND to them or their “hooks” that they throw out to get “debate” going or smear someone.
Once came on once and called me a “woman hater” thinking my screen name was male. LOL cute! LOL
I cannot even begin to know if your friend/lover is a true victim or a pseudo-fictim, a P in disguise…something you said about him though that made me think you have a great deal of PITY for him and his “plight”—-and PITY is an emotion that Psychopaths LOVE to play on. Oh, are they EVER good at getting others to pity them.
Henry’s x BF-P came to him with this long pitiful tale of woe, his x threw him out on the street with notbing, no place to stay, no car, ya da, ya da, then the next thing you know he has moved in, Henry is supporting him, buys him a car and so on, then the guy is back to cheating again….fast forward 3 years, Henry had 3 years of hell all the while feeling PITY for this poor guy. NO MORE.
So, I was just giving you a word to the wise about th e”pity play” and there was just something about your post made me think you might be feeling that—wanting to “fix” this gravely injured person who has been devestated by a mean old P.
The thing is, you can give someone things, but you canot “Heip” them, they must HELP THEMSELVES. HEAL THEMSELVES. I took in a woman who presented herself as a victim, literally living in her car…she stayed here on my farm for several months. She always came up with excuses why she could not “help” around here and 1,000 excuses why she could not get a job—the moon was full, it was cloudy, the day was thursday, or it might rain. I finally realized what was going on and that what she wanted was my PITY and for me to provide her a living. doesn’t work that way. I will give people an OPPORTUNITY to help themselves, but I can’t “help” them, and if they show no interest in helping themselves, the OPPORTUNITIES I PRESENT dry up immediately. I will NOT “enable” someone else to live without any effort on their part, or take over the things that are there responsibility to do for themselves.
Many well meaning people get taken in by sob stories of needyness by con men/women. I am one of those bleeding hearts who has been taken in more than my share, but I am LEARNING and setting boundaries now. My only responsibility is ME, your only responsibility is YOU (except in the case of very young children that you are responsible for) and that is the way it should be.
I’m glad yo uare here and I suggest that you learn and read the wonderful articles here in the archives. I have a feeling that you are a caring and compassionate woman, as well as a bright one, and that makes you the PERFECT target for a P looking for a free ride posing as a victim. BTW a “smear campaign” against all former lovers and spouses and painting them as crazy, mean, psychopathic etc. is very standard operating procedure for the Psychopath. They paint the VICTIM as crazy and themselves as pitiful.
(Report abusive comment)
myloverwasavictim says:
Dearest Oxy,
I am going to treat very carefully while being involved with my friend, absolutely. I didn’t intend for my words to convey pity for him – the problem is that I am on the verge of falling in love with him, but the time is not right – he still needs to heal and get past his ordeal. I feel compassion and empathy for him; his eyes show how haunted he still is on the days when he relives what he went through.
One big thing I didn’t mention in my previous posts is that I know of the sociopath who victimized my lover; his story is real, and the depth of her deception, lies and manipulation is immeasurable. I had her number within a few weeks.
I have been reading many of the articles written here, as well as the posts, and I’m learning so much. Had I not been victimized by a lover when I was 18, I would never have believed that people like this exist. No one believed what I went through, and I had no support from anyone as I tried to heal all those years ago. When I would tell the stories of my S giving my house keys to his friends, telling them I was alone and to go to my apartment and f*ck me, everyone thought I was nuts, and was a liar. and that is just a tiny portion of the things that were done to me. I was completely taken in by my S, and it took me a few years before I could have a healthy relationship with a man.
Thank you, Oxy, for caring. You truly are a kind and loving woman.
(Report abusive comment)
OxDrover says:
Dear My,
I hear you GF! I am glad that you know the score on the X-female P, that does help. Just make sure that any feelings you have for him are based on a HEALTHY relationship. He may not be able at this point to actually have a HEALTHY relationship if he is pretty RAW.
Assuming that he is a true victim, HE IS THE ONE who must figure out why he was a victim….that is the pivotal thing.
If the abuse was obvious to him (rather than blindsiding him) then why did he stay in an abusive relationship? We (most of us) saw RED FLAGS and didn’t run like we “should have” but stayed and tried to fix the situation, got hooked into feeling responsible fo rthe relationship etc etc. Many of us grew up in UNhealthy homes, previous relationships, etc.
We can’t fix the P but we have to FIX ourselves, learn to set boundaries, etc. That is harder for some of us than others.
I may throw “stones” but believe me I have thrown mroe stones at myself than I have others here on this blog! Like I used to tell my kids when they were younger, “If you can think of it, I DID it. If you can imagnie a mistake, I MADE it!”
Unfortunately, I didn’t learn from my mistakes and I had several UNhealthy relationships–with bosses, employees, my P son, my P sperm donor, my egg donor, friends, lovers, etc. I was the queen of dysfunction—the queen of ‘self sacrifice” for somene else—I just FORGOT that it is OK to take care of ME FIRST and also if I don’t take care of myself, then I can’t help anyone else either. Life is hard, she gives the tests first and the lessons afterwards. I didn’t get the lessons even when I flunked the tests!
Now, at nearly 63, I am FINALLY GETTING IT THROUGH MY THICK SKULL as MaryJo B said in the title of her book. I am not critical of anyone else for “not getting it” right away, but that doesn’t mean I won’t do my best to educate them! And for free yet! LOL I wish someone had bashed in my skull with the cyber skillet and said “wake up! Get real! Take care of YOU” and the few people who QUIETLY tried I didn’t listen to, so sometimes it takes a wake up call, like the old joke about “treating the mule with kindness —but first you have to hit him with a 2 x 4 to GET HIS ATTENTION” LOL Sometimes it takes ME a good clout up side th ehead to get my attention. Letting our pity overcome our good sense is never a good thing. No one wants to help others help themselves mroe than I do, but I finally realized I can only encourage, educate, and support them, but I can’t DO it for them. Just like the horse, I can lead them to the water, but they have to drink it for themselves.
I’m really glad you are here. Since you were victimized (even so long ago) it always helps I think to go back and validate that victimization and see where we are with it. Sometimes we push it down and really don’t resolve it, just like putting a throw rug over a dog doo mess in the living room, we just keep covering it but, but it still stinks and until we really CLEAN it out, it really does’t go away. Some of the piles of my messes were three feet high, but I am throwing out the old, mopping it up, and sweeping and cleaning my “human house” so that it is much more pleasant to live here inside my skin. (((hugs))))
(Report abusive comment)
lostandfearful says:
this is my first post here. i wrote a note to Donna yesterday. i am emotionally and physiologically caught by a fraud perpetuated via the internet… a ‘relationship’ with a group of people that lasted several months. strangely enough, i have found the person. but i am having a hard time trusting even that – articles in a west coast newspaper and several intertwining blogs – now i trust nothing. and this is where the ‘complex’ diagnosis comes in: my base beliefs about my safety have been shaken and i am wanting revenge in a VERY serious way. My life really needs my attention. Badly. And I am consumed by this scam and watching ‘them’ continue to operate on the website i met ‘him’ on.
I am angry in a way that i don’t remember touching in my life. I am angry at anyone who is making my life difficult (and there are some serious things that need my calm), and am angry, out of proportion at those I see as not helping me. I see that my sense of responsibility has become skewed – I was so responsible for ‘him’ for months and it feels like i am angry cause there was no pay off – that i was ripped off. I am being quite blunt here. I suspect i sound demented. I think I AM a bit demented.
One woman, pretending to be a group of people…sock puppets all. I endured the ‘death’ of the person I cared for. Then I endured his resurrection and the threats that have come since then. And now that I KNOW who it is, i endure the intense desire to out her. i feel quite wild. and helpless and hopeless.
i really want help. and it is hard to find. bitter. yes. very. not just this – the bitter now has spread across all difficulties. i feel inense anger toward anyone who has lied to me in any way – and intense fear as to THEIR motivations for ding so.
okay, enough rant. this is what it is like inside my skin right now.
(Report abusive comment)
skylar says:
lost and fearful,
sorry for your experience with P’s. I don’t have much time to chat right now but I will tell you one thing that might help. They NEED, CRAVE, DESIRE, attention and emotion. DON’T GIVE THEM ANY. Don’t HAVE any toward them. Anger and revenge is just as good to them as love, pity, kindness. It doesn’t matter what kind of emotion you give them. What they want is any kind of RESPONSE. They have a strange craving for control and manipulation: push this button, get that response. Don’t give them that. They hate laughter. They hate no contact. They hate abandonment – especially sudden, out of the blue abandonment. They hate boring, anything boring (we call it gray rock) drives them crazy. Give them the things they hate and grow peace in the fact that it makes them suffer: abandonment, no contact, laughter, or boring. Pretty much in that order of effectiveness. Good luck, you are loved here. don’t worry.
(Report abusive comment)
OxDrover says:
Dear Lostand fearfull,
Welcoome to love fraud. the FRAUD you have endured is very “bitter” and angry making…your feelings of being cooned, swindled, defrauded are normal. Your reactions to these things are normal…we all I think when we discovered we had been conned felt in a similar way–and sort of demented too.
The desire for revenge at having been defrauded is also normal, but acting on iit or the other things our anger, our rage is not usually a good thing.
We can’t undo the past, but if the person who did this to you did so in a way that is clearly ILLEGAL, contact the police.
Fraud is usually difficult to prosecute, but you might have a chance to do so.
I’m not sure how this one person, I assume, pretending to obe a “group” defrauded you, but obviously they succeeded at least for a time.
I suggest that you stay here and read and learn about con pe4ople, fraudesters, and psychopaths which will help you sort out some of this. Knowledge is power!
I’m sorry you qualify for membership in our “club” but glad you are here, this is a good place for recovery! God bless.
(Report abusive comment)
justabouthealed says:
Skylar….your post is right on.
Here is what I WOULD write to the P I was involved with, coming up on the 45th anniversary of having first fallen in love with what he could have been, had he been a normal person.
Of course, he will never see this!The reference to the instrument only playing those few notes is from the excellent book “When You Love a Man Who Loves Himself” by Keith Campbell.
You have a personality disorder. Your instrument only plays excitement, admiration and power. Does not play empathy, compassion or caring. When you feel the rush of trying to win or win back a woman’s adoration, you think those emotions are real love and proclaim it so. Then, when her true intimacy and love begins to feel like control, manipulation and a prison to you….as true intimacy and love always DOES feel to you…. or just a new enticement comes along, you are cruel, feeling very justified, enjoying, LOVING the con (if you’ve pulled on and you usually have) enjoying inflicting pain on that lower species (to you ) known as woman. I no longer hate you, just pity you. You will always feel empty inside. You are emotionally retarded as surely as your sister is mentally retarded. Oh, what joy and passion and sorrow and love and empathy you will never feel. I can remember a brief moment or two, when in deep grief over the death of a loved one, I have felt your kind of emptiness….and it is truly a horrible, horrible feeling. My heart goes out to you, but if I could put a prominent warning label on you for other people, I surely would.
____
He is the kind of P/N/S Bad Man who I think really believes a lot of his own lies. But there is also a part of him that is fully aware of what he is doing. He takes on whatever perception of himself serves him best at the moment. That he is a good man who just mistakes his emotions (blah!) or a skillful con artist. Actually he is both.
For me, getting over the bitterness involved coming to understand why he acts as he does….and then understanding what vulnerabilities in me allowed him to exploit me. I wanted DESPERATELY to be loved by a man, at any cost. Vulnerability one. Vulnerability two was paying attention to the bling of a narcissistic personality instead of the character of a man’s heart. Funny, at age 20 I was wiser than at age 56. I was not so desperate for love, and I was clearly focused on evaluating a man by his character, not his charm, self-assuredness, his status or potential status. I dumped pre-med guys for a newspaper boy studying to be a teacher. It was a wise choice.
But somehow, 36 years later, I lost my way. Partly because I knew my husband had lost his way too. I think we are back on the right path now, but the road is difficult at times.
(Report abusive comment)
witsend says:
justabouthealed,
I seem to remember that you had mentioned sometime in the past of having foster children in your care.
Am I mistaken on this?
If not, can you please tell me something about this system. I know that many children end up in this system when they are taken away from their parents by social services, and similar situations. Do you know of any programs where people foster teenagers who no longer want to live under their parents roof or similar situations?
(Report abusive comment)
witsend says:
Oxy,
I need some brain storming ideas….I returned home from my show late last night and had good intentions of just coming home and being low key just as when I left….
I came home and the house reeked of urine because my small dog is afraid of my son and won’t go outdoors for him as he has left her outside for long lengths of time in the past…So basically she is afraid of him. He yells and screams at her (because she isn’t submissive to him and he can’t “control” her) and she is not used to be treated like this. So she is afraid of him, rightfully so. He stayed overnight with my older son and the dogs were fine in the morning because my older son came and fed them because he had a haircut appointment.
He really is out of control. He seems very angry.
I feel I can’t even leave the house to go to the store anymore for fear of what he might do while I am gone.
I have found out that he hasn’t found a place to stay. (when he is 17) He is finding that no one wants to take on a kid that won’t BE IN school. Naturally they don’t want him influencing their own kids that DO go to school. The place he was going when he ran away was a temporary “stay” and they won’t take him “full time” evidently either.
Because things aren’t going according to his “grand plan” he seems more agitated than usual. I had noticed this even before I left.
I believe he is angry because he feels stuck here and he is taking his anger out more aggresively (lots of yelling and controlling behavior) on the dogs and myself because he doesn’t want to be here. BUT he now talks as if he will be HERE (still at home) when they “kick him” out of school. And he is angry about THAT as well. Because he says he is still going to GO to school every day if he “wants” to…..Cause they can’t kick him out….
Any suggestions….??
(Report abusive comment)
OxDrover says:
Dear Witsend,
Sounds like he doesn’t like the reality he is finding instead of his grand scheme of things! Gosh, you mean the world doesn’t owe you a living? DUH?!
Now he is determined to go to school anyway? Like they can’t call the cops and have his lazy arse removed from school property? And I bet they will too. A drop out has no RIGHT to be there!
I will have to give this some thought! I’m just not sure what are even potential olptions. Legally or otherwise.
Is it possible for you to contact a “family practice” attorney and maybe get at least a consultation? About what your responsibility is for a “child” you cannot control?
It is obvious to me that if he won’t/can’t elave at 17, he won’t leave at 18 either or 19 or 20, he will hold you hostage with the “if you do this or that I will burn the house down” black mail routine. Of course you might point out to him that if he burns the house down he will have no place to stay either.
I think his idea of the treats is in order to CONTROL you, of course, but if he feels he has a RIGHT to live in your house, eat your food and so on, he won’t have to “leave” to be his “own boss”—-and what does that make YOU? A PRISONER IN YOUR OWN HOME.
Witty, I am not sure what your legal options are, but I have come to a point in my life, that I will not be anyone’s SLAVE or PRISONER of FEAR….It might be that you just have to (I am brain storming here) just find a time when he is gone, and move your stuff into a storage unit or two, rent a motel room and LEAVE, TURN OFF THE LIGHTS AND LEAVE HIM THERE IN THE EMPTY HOUSE by himself, cold and hungry. Ifr he burns it, he burns it. But how long can you live a PRISONER? A slave to his whims, feeling like you have a sword hanging over your head?
I finally got to the point that it wasnn’t worth it to “defend” my house and furniture—for a while son D actually (unbeknownst to me) stood guard over me at night with a gun)—I was fearful that they would burn my house down on my dead body, but I realized later, that they didn’t want to burn the house that they wanted the house. Anyway, though, the thing is, I couldn’t live like a prisoner or a slave any longer in fear.
I wish your older son “got it” better about his younger brother. Is there any possibility that you and he could sit down and talk, maybe to the counselor or the therapist together? Wit, you need some SUPPORT on this. the little chit needs to know he can’t bully you any more! threats or no threats, you can’t “placate him” any more, the more you let him get by with this stuff the worse I think he is going to become. Keep in mind though, that they are vengeful little chits too. So protect yourself. (((Hugs)))) You are always in my prayers.
(Report abusive comment)
lostandfearful says:
ergghhh,, I lost kathleen hawks’ post on fugue states when I went to log in.
IT IS AWESOME. TY. Now, if i can ever find it again, it might help me dismantle something that has cycled through my life a few times that is definitely active for me in being scammed and duped.
ty again.
(Report abusive comment)
witsend says:
Oxy,
It really does piss me off now that I did placate him for the time that I did now.
I was told to do that by the cop and I actually felt even before he (cop) told me this that it was the right thing to do under the circumstances. (when I thought he was leaving soon)
It seemed to make sense then because it seemed more dangerous to me for him to be so outwardly angry and hateful all the time. I just thought if he left on his own accord (the old “I’ll SHOW her” thing he seems so fond of) I thought it would be so much better because it would be harder for him to return, even when defeated in the “real world”. He would have to keep “showing me”.
I am pretty convinced (although not positive) that if my OLDER son would actually stand behind me and confront him (along with me) he would show my older son before long (maybe immediate) his true self. I think his act/mask would fall pretty quickly.
It wasn’t very long ago that no one had seen the side of him that I see. And little by little he has shown a part of that side to others recently. The at risk counselor at school saw a side of him she hadn’t seen before. I think the cop saw a very oppositional side of him not often seen by everyone.
I mean they haven’t seen nothing compared to what I see but it shows that when “confronted” by someone he looses his “act’” pretty quickly.
I just don’t know what the right thing to do now is.
My options suck no matter how I look at the situation. Personally I’m not sure leaving my house is something that would upset him. I think he might enjoy that. He would certainly enjoy it for awile.
(Report abusive comment)
OxDrover says:
Dear Witsend,
That’s the thing, they catch us between two or three BAD olptions and then WE are the ones that have to make the choice.
Basic bottom line though, is that in the future (after the 17th birthday) (1) he continues to live in your house and keep you like a prisoner/slave for as long as he wants to –years maybe (2) He voluntarily leaves (3) you have him evicted.
Since option number one isn’t I don’t think (I am putting words in your mouth here) ACCEPTABLE to you, there are only TWO other options available, either lhe leaves voluntarily or you have him evicted.
Now, it is also possible that as much as he hates you, the little chit is also afraid of going to jail, soooo, I think a plan might be to recruit your older son to help you, and back you up.
This may mean taking a day and going with your older son around to talk to the cop, to talk to the at risk counselor, to talk to your therapist, etc. and show him the evidence of your son’s out of control irrational behavior.. Then hope that your older son will back you up. If not, then you may have to resort to the attorney evicting him (that will take time) but in any case I would see what I could find out in the way of your rights with an attorney consultation.
I know the thought of abandoning your house is probably not the top on your list of things to do…believe me, I KNOW THAT FEELING when I took off in the RV. At the time I figured they would burn or destroy it. Fortunately they didn’t. But as long as he holds a “smoking gun” over your head with his threats it is either give in or DO something. Winter is coming up and you know, wihtout heat or electricity, running water or food that house might not be so nice in the wintertime. Once he is out, then change the locks go NC and don’t let him back in.
Find a large male roommate and rent out your sons room. Actually, maybe you know someone you could get to, or even hire to, move in with you for a whort period of timie to ENCOURAGE your son to leave! LOL I’m just brain storming here, but looks like to me that this is coming to a point with his 17th birthday. You know you are in my thoughts and prayers! (((hugs))))
(Report abusive comment)
myloverwasavictim says:
Good morning to all the sweet LF posters,
Oxy, a special good morning to you!
I doubt that I will be posting anymore after today. I’ve been reading all the archives – any boy, do my eyes scream for relief
when I realized that my lover has posted here in the past.
Out of respect for his privacy, I don’t feel it’s right for me to be here. He needs the love and support of others on this site much more than I do, however I will come back at some point. I’ve found some very helpful information here to help deal with the issues I faced at the hands of a very abusive father, and a live-in lover when I was 17 years old.
I wish everyone on this site the strength, wisdom and support we all need to heal and be healthy, but more than anything else, I wish all of us the beautiful, true and lasting love that we all crave. I pray that we all find the one whom will accept the love we have to give as the precious and exquisite gift that it is, and that he or she return that love in kind.
With wishes of Peace, Healing and Love, I remain:
myloverwasavictim.
p.s.
If anyone would like to contact me off line, I would welcome your friendship. Not sure how I go about getting my information to those whom may want to stay in touch?
(Report abusive comment)
justabouthealed says:
Hi Witsend,
Yes, I did do foster care. What is available really varies by state. Unfortunately, the states are usually NOT good at pro-active care. In other words, if you formally “abandon” your child, then he could go into foster care. THEN there are families that yes, provide foster care for teens. But sometimes they are put in a group home. If you son is truly a P, he’d probably make sure to take care of himself there and not be a victim to some other boy. But I would advise against getting a charge of child abandonment against you.
The alternate way they can get into foster care is if your boy is arrested enough times, breaks parole, and the courts decided he cannot be controlled in the home, they will take custody without charging you of anything. In that case, they know the parent is doing all they can, but the boy is just unmanageable.
Maybe the principal could refer you to a social worker who might help you explore options. Just stress that you don’t feel you can manage him. Just like the principal could not either.
(Report abusive comment)
OxDrover says:
Dear My,
I’m sorry to see you leaving, but at the same time, I understand why you might think it would be more important for your lover to be here than for you to be, and yes, I imagine he does need the support. Since we have so very few men here that actually post, I’m not sure your lover is still a regular blogger here (though he may be a regular reader) but I would encourage him to come back here on a regular basis as I think the information and support here is the BEST on any blog/information site on the net (of all that I have visited for sure!)
You might also try some of the other sites on the net for yourself about dealing with absive parents. Believe me, that sets us up for becoming victims ourselves, by making us “normalize” abusive behavior, it also makes us I think Hyper-caregiving which gives us ini some cases tooo much empathy for others who appear hurt (and boy can the abusive Ps give a grand performance of being “wounded birds” when in fact, they are using that ploy to lure us closer to be able to get their tallons on our throats easier!
Godspeed and peace, love and happiness to you. Oxy
(Report abusive comment)
witsend says:
Justabouthealed,
Thank you for that information.
No, I do not want to have a charge of child abandonment against me. I morally don’t believe I could do this anyways EVEN as desperate as I am feeling at this moment.
I know in my heart that he already has abandonment issues and this is at the very core of his mental state as well. So I just couldn’t do that. His perception is what it is, but it is far from reality. I wouldn’t feel right making this a reality for him regardless of what he does.
I am trying to prepare myself to possibly many avenues that I might not normally take. But this is not one of them.
I really am just feeling as desperate as I can possibly feel at this point.
I know he is so filled with anger and hatred for me that I am not in a position to do any GOOD for him anymore. I am thinking that if he went somewhere else it might diffuse the anger. Even if it was just a temporary solution. His anger seems to have reached a boiling point. And because he doesn’t have impulse control this seems to be a dangerous situation in my opinion.
I need help and I need it now. I have called human services, basically they have no agencies that they have available (for our situation) other than for runaways.
What agencys do you call to even talk to a social worker?
(Report abusive comment)
OxDrover says:
I would call the child protective services (or department of human services) whatever it is called in your state. State that you have a CHILD AT RISK and that you need help and advice, and see ifyou can get your foot in the door through that. State that your child is a “risk to himself” (use those EXACT words words) and they are TRUE. Once you get face to face with the worker, you can eventually tell that you think he is also a RISK TO YOU.
I would also explore getting your older son to help you, by convincing him (along with other witnesses) to wha tyour son is up to and how he is ABUSING and threatening you. It ;may not work, but I would think it is worth a shot.
Wits, as far as “abandoning” him—HE HAS ABANDONED YOU, not you abandoning him. The only person I see YOU abandoning is YOURSELF.
If you and he were swimming in a lake and he was two years old, and wanted and needed to ride on your back to safety, I can see you doing that even if it was a matter of sinking and drowning yourself in an attempt to save him.
BUT, he is capable of swimming for himself (but unwilling to make any effort to do so) but he is DEMANDING TO RIDE ON YOUR BACK RATHER THAN TRY TO SWIM FOR HIMSELF, and if you let him do that, YOU WILL SINK, AND NOT BE ABLE TO SAVE HIM EITHER.
So, I think you need to look at this situation not as you abandoning him—abandonment issues my arse!—the thing is he has become a BULLY and you are the victim, so why are you having PITY FOR THE VERY PERSON WHO IS THREATENING AND BULLYING YOU AND TRYING TO SINK YOU BENEATH THE WAVES.
Wits, I’ve been there, my poor baby all alone in that nasty prison with all those mean convicts preying on him….sheeet! BOINK!!!! Wits! Get real girl! You know what I am saying is true. You can’t pity the pit bull that is biting your leg, shake it off! (((hugs))))) and you know you are in my prayers! Love Oxy
(Report abusive comment)
lostandfearful says:
@ Inquirente
“A perfect lie can be so much more damaging, because it is hidden within your being.”
wow. and i also take this to mean hidden from me. hidden there, were she caught me. there were rings for her to hook into.
my posts might be a bit garbled re numbers and gender. I was conned by a woman, pretending to be a young man and his family and friends. welcome to the internet. turns out she has been at it a LONG time. I have found reference to her on the internet and am now in the process of connecting with another of her ‘duppees’ (sorry, not going to do the ‘v’ word) who is taking her to civil court. First, I am doing a background check on the other dupee.
my sociopath is alive well active and sock puppetting all over the internet.
I am hoping that coming here, and interacting with the other dupee, etc. will peal me away from watching the trainwreck rumble on. I hate this woman. And I want to mess with her. And absolutley no one who knows me can understand what this is like.
I had an abusive bf 30 years ago – I remember what that was like, and I remember how long it took me to rise up and roar when he was stalking me. The police intervened in that situation; he had made the wrong threat at the wrong time and the arson squad got involved. they aksed me if i though he would/could do as threatened. I said yes, cause it was quite posible. I WOULD HAVE SAID IT ANYWAY, TO GET HELP TO MAKE HIM STOP, TO HAVE SOME POWER. I feel the same way now.
I would like to help this woman who is suing her, in anyway possible. And i relaized tongiht that i may be able to. The US postal service frowns on fraud. And I may be able to supply her with some mail, that may further her case. I hope so. I so want vengence. And I am trusting that this is actually a place I can say this and you will understand – and because you may know how i feel, then your response will have meaning. I feel like such a whack job when i try to tell people i know what is going on. their repsonses, are ususally, to tell me to run. This woman doens’t live anywhere near me…in another country. I am not so worried that she will come after me. She seems not quite that motivated.
She actually was lIving with the other woman i have come across who she defrauded. LIVING WITH HER! As the best friend of the man she loved who died……………..
It is hard still – dimanlting this beautiful kind noble smart and outrageously weird and funny boy who I loved. he never existed…onyl in this womans’ head. i want to know, who is that beautiufl boy is in the 50 photos i have? did she steal his life? and what will she do with the pics she has of me?
She was amazing with her voice – played 2 characters i spoke with. I believed her – and i have tlaked to ‘him’ on the phone since May. After ‘he’ died, his sister called me. (same schitck, diff vic) and she made a BIG mistake – maybe it was the 4th phone call and she signed off with, ‘i love you’. And i was like, uh noooo! I have rather been in hell since sept.
all for now. ty for being here.
(Report abusive comment)
OxDrover says:
Dear lostandfearful,
Cyber-paths, con men/women, frauds, ….these people hook into the emotions of others, you are sure not alone. I saw a 20/20 program one night about this man in Nigeria who was pretending to be a beautiful woman, and had gotten involved on the internet with a middle aged man who had sent “her” thousands of dollars and was mailing stolen merchancise for “her” to help her with her “business” and expected this beautiful, wealthy woman to come to American and marry him. This man was not stupid, he was HOOKED ON A FANTASY.
There are thousands of people who are hooked by these con people, and unfortunately, they are GOOD AT WHAT THEY DO and they pull people in by their heart strings, either through romance or compassion for someone suffering as the good people try to “help’ this person.
The worst part of it is that by bieng in another country most of the time they get away with the scams–get away with the money and the “dupee” as you call it (not the V word) is powerless to recover their money or their faith.
These people are psychopathic, they are heartless, they are EVIL—and I hear your pain, I hear your frustration, I hear your rage, and I don’t think there is anyone here who has been scammed for money and/or for love by a psychopath that cannot relate to what you feel.
The dating sites and other places on the internet can be “fishing pools’ for dupees. The most caring and kind individuals are the ones who are duped by these scum bags. They play the “pity me” card, or the “I’ve been so abused and I need you to help me” card, and a thousand other stories.
You are NOT alone in this. I hope you will stay here and read, and I do wish you and the other woman can get some justice, but if you do or not, it isn’t any longer about THEM but about you. Healing you. Taking care of YOU! YOU did not deserve this, and you do deserve to heal and find peace. (((Hugs)))) and God bless.
(Report abusive comment)
Spirit40 says:
I think I am a magnet for these types of people in general….. last week I met two wierdos in one day right after I kicked the S to the curb…. one a realtor since I needed and apt and one a mechanic.. who was trying to put the moves on me , I was like what? the heck…..I just talked to the wierd ..lady I am weary of anyone who is intersested in what my childcare options are… and my personal business… “they act like they want to help you, but I am going with my first instincts this time , back off my personal info I just met you…. its really hard to be naive and a good person and not be able to trust cause of these A …holes…. Its something I need to be stronger about boundaries its ok to have them and to protect myself… when in doubt….especially the chaos and crap we go through…
(Report abusive comment)
OxDrover says:
Dear spirit,
Good observations! Good reactions! Stepping up to some good boundaries!!! TOWANDA!!!
(Report abusive comment)
justabouthealed says:
I’ve thought a lot about the tendency we all have to blame ourselves, to think we have some weakness, some “issues” we have to get over. And depending on our personality type, we may ALWAYS be the analytical type, wondering why we are the way we are, struggling always to improve, etc., and so we apply that to this experience as well.
I’ve also thought a lot about the tendency some of us have to want revenge, to be angry and stay angry, and to say things like I’ve often said: “If he had not been a bad guy, then my traits wouldn’t have caused me a problem. So HE is the problem, not me.”
Well, finally, I have an analogy. I have been getting sick every time I travel. Three times since the spring. Each time I got sick. Not just a little sick, but miserably sick, expensively sick, and sick for weeks. I made my husband sick too when I came home, despite my best efforts to prevent that.
In each case, I’m pretty certain who “made” me sick. In one case, the woman admitted to me that she knew she should have stayed home from the conference, because she was sick, but she came anyway. She told me this matter of factly after I got sick. So she knew she was sick, and not only did she come to the conference, but she came up to me and insisted on shaking my hand and giving me her card. I was rather floored later when this stranger, who called me after the conference, so matter of factly said, oh yes, I’m sure I gave you it, but I really wanted to meet you, and it will all be worth it. HUH??
Well, after getting sick three times, I have someone I could BLAME for each time. I could stop there. But for my own sake, even though it was not my “fault” that I got sick, I’m going to the doctor to find out how to best boost my immune system before my next trip, and I’m going to pay very close attention to the kinds of safety steps I should practice in public and in meeting people, as well as what vitamins I should take, how much sleep I should get, etc. And watch myself for any bad habits from my childhood, like licking my finger to turn a page of a public magazine, etc.
And so what my analogy is stating is that here at LF we know who to BLAME…the shame belongs to the bad guy, NOT to us…..but that doesn’t mean we can’t do things to boost our immunity to these bad guys…..while realizing sometimes you are going to get sick. Anyone can be a victim. But if you get treatment right away (no contact) you will heal faster!
(Report abusive comment)
OxDrover says:
Dear JAH
Your immune system does take a hit from prolonged stress, so yes, TAKE PRECAUTIONS.
Get your flu shots!
Take a multivitamin every day.
Get plenty of rest,
Carry the hand sanitizer.
Use the paper towel (if no towels use a klenex from your purse) to open the bathroom door, DO NOT TOUCH THE KNOB and then sanitize your hands otu side the john.
clean the handle of any shopping cart you use
keep your hands away from your face
at big gatherings, do not shake hands (carry some books or something and then say “excuse me for not shaking hands but my arms are full”
Avoid CLOSE contact with large crowds, keep as much distance as you reasonably can. Avoid close contact esp with people obviously sick.
Keep your stress levels as low as possible.
Your analogy though is a good one!!!!
(Report abusive comment)
geminigirl says:
Wits, i can so relate to what you are going thru right now with your P son. I was also very scared of my daughter when she was between the ages of 17 and 19. She trashed my art studio in 1981, and that was the year she threw a heavy hot steam iron at my head{She missed, luckily.}. She used to look at me with such hatred in her eyes. Not sure if she was on drugs that year, but she was certainly drinking a lot of booze.{Her dad is an alcoholic, and he used to get her to come to his favourite pub and drive him home,-this was when he was underage and no driving licence.She isa tall girl, and quite strong. My pastor at th e time told me she had a “walk- in”, an evil spirit which came and went.I dont doubt it, as her moods used to change at a frightning speed.Before her dad hit the bottle again he wasa great dad and husband,but after he started drinking again, he used to verbally abuse me in front of my girls, and they used to copy him. I had no-one in my corner, and thought I was losing my mind, as Id never heard of “gaslighting, mirroring, projection”, etc at the time. The one time I called the police, my ex convinced them that I was the crazy one, and was beating up my daughter, and was a prostitute as well! They believed him! You are right to be scared of your son, my daughter is now 45, and tho she now thinks shes a “yuppy”, and so smart and entitled, basically Ive never trusted her since she wrecked my home and studio.When is he legally of age to be set up on his own?If he wants to go, let him go. Change the locks, or sell up and move if you possibly can. Teenagers have killed their parents, what about the Menendez brothers?You are living on a knife edge, and your nerves and immune system must be shot.Lots of luck, you will need it! and {{HUGS!!}}}, gem.XX
(Report abusive comment)