The sociopath’s irrational optimism
PDF We’ve discussed many of the sociopath’s traits, such as his missing empathy and compassion; his tendency to remorseless interpersonal exploitation; and proclivity to audacious acts of lying, deception and sundry other violating behaviors.
Now, I’m tempted to add to the mix what I call the sociopath’s tendency to “irrational optimism.”
By “irrational optimism,” I mean the sociopath’s irrationally optimistic belief, if not conviction, that he’ll either evade or, somehow, otherwise prevail over, the real, probable consequences of his actions.
Consider this brief, hypothetical interaction between a sociopath and his partner, who learns with certainty that he, the sociopath, has been cheating on her with three different women simultaneously:
Partner: How could you do that?
Sociopath: Do what?
Partner: Sleep with three different women behind my back. Are you f*cking demented?
Sociopath: First of all, that’s abusive. So stop right there and don’t abuse me. Second, I didn’t sleep with f*cking anybody. Not that I haven’t been tempted, given how lame our sex life is.
Partner: Why are you lying? I know who these women are, and I can prove you’ve been sleeping with them. Do you think I’m that f*cking stupid?
Sociopath: Let me ask you something. Why the hell would I sleep with three women and risk getting some f*cking STD? Think about it. You know me…or maybe you don’t? Does that make any sense?
The sociopath here is (or was) irrationally optimistic on two levels—first, that he’d be able to perpetrate this caper, undetected, indefinitely; and second that, once busted (as, now, he is) he’ll be able to squirm his way out of accountability.
We could address many aspects of this interaction, but I’d like to emphasize his last argument: “Let me ask you something. Why the hell would I sleep with three women and risk getting some f*cking STD? Think about it. You know me…or do you? Does that make any sense?”
This argument captures, I think, the sociopath’s “irrational optimism” beautifully. In offering the glibly insulting invitation to “think about it,” he makes a spectacle of his audacity and contempt: he really expects, and believes his partner should, accept his invitation [to think about it].
But even more than expecting her to “think about it,” which is outrageous enough, he expects her, in his irrational optimism, actually to be persuaded by his argument. In his irrational optimism, he is hopeful, if not confident, that she’ll choose to disbelieve the evidence she holds indisputably in her hands in favor of accepting his insulting logic.
How classically sociopathic is this?
More importantly, what contributes to the sociopath’s irrational optimism?
We might begin with his malignant sense of entitlement—that is, the sociopath’s belief that he is entitled to obtain the gratifications he wants. One of the most dangerous aspects of the attitude of entitlement is how it renders impotent—denudes of power—rule, limits and laws.
When you feel entitled to something, if it’s not accomodatingly forthcoming, you feel entitled to take it. You’ve laid, in your entitlement, a kind of psychic possession of what it is you want, so that now it becomes, in your mind, yours—specifically, your right to have.
And so if someone (or something) obstructs your seizing what now, in your mind, is your right to possess, then you are free to take it—to take, in fact, whatever is yours—by any means necessary.
Conferring this entitled status upon oneself encourages the irrationally optimistic view that, one way or another, accomodation looms…it must!
Closely related to this is the sociopath’s grandiosity: he believes he can and should succeed at his high-wire machinations because he’s that good, that clever and—it can’t be stressed enough—that entitled.
His grandiosity may take the form of thoughts like, “Sure, normal guys couldn’t pull this shit off, but I’m not your normal guy.”
And so, when you feel like you can do things that others can’t—especially things unsupported by “reality”—this is grandiosity. And grandiosity feeds, I believe, very directly, the sociopath’s tendency to irrational optimism.
Then there is the sociopath’s contempt, so inseparable from his grandiosity. As we discussed, the sociopath, in the example above, expects his insulting argument to succeed, either because he’s convinced he’s smart, clever and persuasive enough to be found so convincing, or else he’s convinced that his partner is dumb, naïve and/or desperate enough to believe him. (Or both!)
As a consequence, the sociopath’s contempt leaves him at constant risk of underestimating others, and overestimating himself. In his irrational optimism, fed by his contempt, he fails to appreciate how close he is always is—perhaps just one more reckless risk away—from being busted.
What else feeds the sociopath’s irrational optimism? How about his stupidity?
This may sound provocative, but let me explain. I suggest that blind faith supports a perspective of irrational optimism, and the sociopath operates with a kind of blind faith. That is, he operates in the blind faith that, somehow or other, he’ll escape accountability for his latest transgression.
Where does his blind faith come from? Two good sources, I’d suggest, are his grandiosity and arrogance—they blind him, I contend, to certain realities, effectively making him stupid on some level.
And his stupidity reinforces his irrational optimism.
Quite obviously, I’m not talking I.Q. stupidity, but rather judgement-level stupidity. The sociopath’s personality pathology mars his capacity to make wise, intelligent judgements in many circumstances.
(My use of “he” in this article is a convenience, not to suggest that females aren’t capable of the behaviors and attitudes discussed. This article is copyrighted © 2009 by Steve Becker, LCSW).
written by Steve Becker, LCSW • Permalink •
Twice Betrayed says:
style: don’t think so. That’s what I meant …..maybe I should see if he did….or has a kid.LOLOLOL! He loved to flirt with all the young tellers so…and it’s odd but at several banks here in town I knew several of the tellers and they both told me things on him. Mostly they had very odd looks on their faces when we would drive thru and this was at two different banks…no less. He was probably hitting on them behind my back. Well, one told me to ‘make him behave’ soooooo…..you know the rest.
Yeah, men do tend to be needy…, when I left mine he floundered around and finally wound up in a’ forced’ marriage with some woman from South America that barely speaks English. He told our daughter he was ‘screwed’. He whines about still ‘loving me’. She told him he should have thought of that before he ruined the marriage….by his huge ego. He has been married three weeks and he’s called me twice. I think most men do not do well alone….it seems females do better.
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henry says:
I agree.
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Twice Betrayed says:
nic: Oh how awful for the baby! I had hell with my first PX hub. Much like this….I finally worked out a deal with him to let him out of all child support if he would just go away—which he did. I raised both kids. Think he might bite for this? Get your lawyer to word it carefully where the judge will sign it…
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style1 says:
Yes, men need a woman or many of them.. I recall with my last man, asking myself then askingh him directly, “What do you want with me? What so you want from me?” It played in my head and what a disgusting place to be and way to feel.. that the person that says that they love you wants something from you.. it was a vague knowing his need and the undercurrent to everything in out relationship. And I felt it from that man last night. Perhaps, I have gotten so in tune that I can sense it. We all have needs but I want a primarily while man as I am a whole woman…
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henry says:
A lot of good fathers abandon their children because it is easier on the kid to just go away.
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Twice Betrayed says:
style: I can so relate to what you are saying…..if you find a ‘whole’ man….let me know where you got him….going fishing in that pond. LOL!
Most of them seem to be looking for someone to fill voids in their personalities. I am willing to be a helpmeet but I am not interesting in carrying someones’ baggage and insecurities and most of all being their personality/entertainment. This is another reason males hit on younger females….they know less, demand less, settle for less and take more crap.
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Twice Betrayed says:
whoa….henry. You think good fathers abandon their children? wow.
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style1 says:
nic,
I don’t mean to judge.. but it is not wise to provoke… but since, he left and didn’t take the child.. that is, perhaps, what you wanted. I don’t know the history here.. so if I say anything that off… I am sorry…
Tt is just not wise to provoke or to let a child get excited in this type of a situation. What would you do if someone started filming you? Again, I don’t know the situation.. but children can cry in this instance and one parent should not use it against the other.. judges frown on this…
Again, I don’t know what you have been dealing with..
Just settle down and care for your child.
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Twice Betrayed says:
nic; I think you were focused on recording his behavior to reinforce your case which is understandable–I see your point. I know from experience this is not all you have been dealing with regarding him. If he is not a good father or not a good influence on your child or you fear for your child with him….I would work on cutting a deal with him to remove him from your lives.
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OxDrover says:
Dear Style, I’m sorry if you thought I was criticizing you, I was mostly teashing about the truck. LOL
I do thinkk though that there are a lot of “needy” and boring men, but also a lot of reall bad con men on the internet dating sites.
Nic,
In the past you know that your X has been unwilling to use the car seat for transporting your child, he doesn’t care for her safety, he is in my opinion ONLY seeing her because he knows he can use that to provoke YOU.
He did get some ATTENTION and DRAMA this time which, negative or positive is REWARDING to him.
Kids cry when they are stressed, and “I don’t want to go” can be when you want them to go to bed or to a sitter. I understand you not wanting to “make” her go, but I think that the BEST Way to handle your X is to let him have as LITTLE drama as possible. If anything, let him think you WANT her to go with him so you can have a “girl’s night out”—if he thinks you are being irritated by him taking her, he is more likely to come get her.
The LESS drama the better. I iunderstand where you are coming from, but at the same time, unless it is a life or safety threatenning situation, I’d keep the cameras and the drama to a minimum, and then use it when it counts.
Hang in there! (((hugs)))) and God bless.
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Twice Betrayed says:
*with my first X regarding the children: one was a newborn and he was to visit this one in house only [which he never once did] our daughter was a toddler and he would come get her ever so often when his parents demanded it…and then he would take her to the current gf’s house whoever she was that month-for hours-not bother to change her diaper [she returned wet/diaper rash], not feed her and God knows what else. She would be so terrorized she would be zombied and sick which would break my heart. She would scream and run on the rare occasions he would come get her leaving me to fall into pieces with fear for her. One of our x friends that was at my x’s house for a visit said my x once locked her in a room screaming when he had a current new gf come over. This is neglect, abuse and not fatherhood. I got a good lawyer and cut a deal with this P and got him out of my kids’ lives. And even now after meeting his son years later [he was the newborn] has admitted to my son…that it was the best thing I could have ever done. That he was no good and still just wants to party and behave badly.
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Twice Betrayed says:
*oh yeah, oxy forgot to add: mine was all over the internet dating sites…how he met this new wife. He had many females going at once…and if I had to bet…I bet he still does.
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henry says:
Yes – it is a tragedy…that some women who are scorned or left for another woman use their children as pawns and hold them hostage. I am speaking of fathers who do all they can to abide by the law and pay child support and want to be a part of the childs life. Some scourned women even use the sex abuse card to manipulate the father, yes I think ‘some’ good fathers step aside.
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Twice Betrayed says:
* need to add to post about X….he was chomping at the bit to get out from under child support. He got waaaaaay behind in it….running all over the world chasing ho’s which takes money, you know…world travel and all…no money or time for kids….anyway….I let him go a long time then wham….i demanded it.>nice little sum by then…and he didn’t want to see the kids or pay anyway really…so he signed the papers and out he went. Must be worded a certain way tho or judge will not sign it.
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henry says:
Twice I think you did the right thing.
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OxDrover says:
Dear Twice,
yea, some of them can be bribed that way—because they don’t want to pay.
Henry, I know a couple of good fathers who had to step away because of the harassment and accusations of the P-mother. They just had no choice, it was step away or die in jail. Sometimes a good parent gets caught in the trap and has no choice. It is heart breaking and I am not sure what I would have done in that case myself. your instinct is to fight, but sometimes it doesn’t make sense to die when you can’t win.
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Twice Betrayed says:
Thank you, Henry for your kind words of support. I greatly appreciate them.
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Twice Betrayed says:
Oxy: yes, I just bartered with what he already really wanted. I just played a hand he had already dealt. He later tried to refute that he was willing to barter and tried to say to the kids that I forced it on him..but I kept ALL the attorney’s written letters and divorce papers[he filed against me because he had a new ho he had taken up with and I was about 5 months pregnant with our son when I fled because he blacked my arms, knocked me out and blooded my face/nose] because I figured he would pull this one day. Took him years to do it….waiting until all danger of child support could be reinstated was past, you know.
He could not divorce me–no grounds [in those days you had to have a real reason--no fault did not exist] I cross filed and divorce was granted on my cross complaint. I kept all this legal documentation to show my kids at the right time. Sure enough he started his little show a few years ago….I did not argue about it just had the papers ready.
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nic says:
Thanks Ox and TB. My daughter had been crying since he walked in the door and way before the camera. It was very loud screaming and I wanted to use it in court. He is emotionally distant from our daughter and doesn’t care. She is too young to tell a judge, counselor, etc. how she is feeling.
Abuse is abuse. Because I pick up a camera in my house doesn’t mean that a person can take it from me and destroy it. That is like saying if I say something he doesn’t like I provoked him to beat me.
There are movies stars, etc. being filmed from paparazzi, etc. but if they break someone’s camera it is against the law. I have no regrets of what I did. I am glad he didn’t take her. The police agreed that I did the right thing in calling them which is why they told me to get an order of protection on Monday.
Style1 wrote “There was no reason to call 911 from what you wrote above and arrest him for what? ”
Well, last time I looked destroying property was against the law.
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nic says:
Oh Ox, he did know I wanted him to pick her up right at 2:15 because I had a sorority function to attend. But he came at 2:30 of course. That actually makes it worse when he knows I have something planned.
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Twice Betrayed says:
nic: I totally understand. Been there, done that.(((((( (hugs to you and your little girl)))))))
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OxDrover says:
Yea, the ONLY reason, I still think, he sees your daughter is to give you grief! If not, he would have been there on time or early. The deal with the car seat in the past is proof to me he is only out to pull your chain, using your child because he knows it works.”
Good luck with your protection order. I hope you are granted it. (((hugs)))) Does he pay child support? maybe you can make a deal with him like TB did with hers, sign the kid over and no $$. One can only hope.
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nic says:
Thanks for understanding TB.
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nic says:
Thanks Ox. I don’t even know if I am going to go through with the order but friends have told me to because of his past. Unfortunately I can’t afford to have him sign over his rights. But I truly feel in my heart that he won’t be coming around anymore.
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Twice Betrayed says:
Awww, no problem, nic! Wish I had a magic wand for you and your sweet little girl. I’ve got a 3 year old gd that I adore. I know you love your little girl and want to always protect her.
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Twice Betrayed says:
The protection order can be gotten…I’ve had more than one.
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style1 says:
When intimacy is missing, it is about intensity… intensity is what moves things toward addictive energy..
I read this in a post above and that really clicked for me… intimacy is constant, slow, and solid.. and that last man I was with was all about fast and intense and I never felt comfortable with him and the intimacy iwas false and contrived…
Nic, calling 911 over what you did could look like petty stuff… again filming him was agravating him.. I understand what and why you did it.. I am on your side.. but smart is the way to play it.. and what do papaprazzi have to do with this domestic issue?… nothing.. Now, if he began tearing your house apart that is another thing. Calm and steady and think and behave purposefully to protect both you and your child.
Calm, solid, secure and steady is what wins.. not provoking and frantic….
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skylar says:
Oxy thanks for the response to my questions. I tried googling, some stuff, but you know, all the sites just talk about prevention. I think the most important thing is getting tested so that there is full disclosure. Thanks again for your answers, this subject obviously gets swept under the rug almost as much as the sociopath topic.
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nic says:
Style1: it could look petty to you but like I said the police said I did the right thing. He could have very well torn up my house but I picked up the phone and called the police and so he left. And the paparazzi was an analogy I used to let you know that I have the right to record in my own home or anywhere else if people can do it out in public. I may not like someone recording me but I am not going to grab their camera and throw it.
Lastly, I had put the camera down after he told me to but he took it upon himself to take it out of my hand and throw it. Nothing is petty with him and I need all of the documentation I can get. According to you I should have let him tear up my house and maybe me in the process and then called the police. ..I don’t think so. I wasn’t waiting around to see. This sounds like blame the victim.
He sent me an email asking about the make and model so he can replace it. It was a $500.00 camera.
P.S. Someone had vandalized my Christmas decorations last year and I called and made a police report. This is the same case. When someone vandalizes your property you call the police.
Good night everyone.
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Twice Betrayed says:
on a lighter note…..when I left my x he called our cell phone company and reported my phone stolen and they shut it off…..ahahahahaha!
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nassaugirl says:
Check out these youtube videos! The SECOND one is awesome!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0dkm07qQ40
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMm7Sg13JW4
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Stargazer says:
Nic,
I agree that he was demonstrating violence by breaking your camera. Why not install a hidden camcorder in your living room and turn in on when he comes over? That way you can record his behaviors without aggravating him.
Also, is there any way to have a back-up babysitter for when he is not there on time? I don’t know what the court rules are about this, but it makes sense that if he doesn’t show up at the designated time, you would have the right to drop the child off at a trust baby sitter’s home at 2:25.
Another option is to avoid setting yourself up for betrayal by not making plans during that time that involve going out. Maybe you can use the time to get some work done at home, or invite some people over. That way if your ex acts out, you will have witnesses.
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Matt says:
nic:
I understand your concerns and agree that you are tring to protect your child and also your property. However, this is one of those situations where your actions would probably be misconstrued by a judge, no matter how well intentioned on your part. The filming would be viewed as provoking your ex. In turn, although your ex’s reactions upset your child, you would be the one blamed for inciting the incident (by filming him) which led to your child’s becomming upset.
A few thoughts. First, don’t let S in your door. He can wait while you hand your child over to him. Second, if you are going to tape him, either get a hidden camera or tape recoreder, or set your camera up so it will film the action, but it won’t be in your hands, and thus not provactive to him. Look at it this way — if he doesn’t know he’s being taped, then you’ll stand a much better chance of really getting the goods on him. Third, as much as it sticks in your craw, you have to make these hand-overs to your ex as drama-free and unemotional as possible. If you don’t, your ex can play the “parental alienation” card against you. Then you are going to be the one stuck going to parenting classes, reconciliation therapy and all that crap. So, to protect yourself, you’ve got to take all the tension/drama/emotion out of the hand-overs.
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OxDrover says:
Dear Matt,
We can always count on you to give good logical advice.
Don’t stay away so long next time or we may have to put out a search party! (((hugs)))) You are an essential part of LF and don’t you forget it!
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Twice Betrayed says:
My heart breaks for the children in these situations. To have to hand your child to a ‘father’ that apparently cares so little as to create these traumatizing scenes for your child is sheer agony. I know..I’ve been there.
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pollyannanomore says:
Wow I am shocked at this drama and to be perfectly frank glad that I missed it. I would have thought each of us has had quite enough drama in our lives with our exes without bashing one another on the head – we are all people who understand the pain we have gone through and yes we are all hurt and sensitive and defensive to some extent after it.
BUT
Can’t we all just get along? Do we have to nit pick about every word someone else types? Or can we just accept that sometimes the net doesn’t convey the exact message someone intended, sometimes people have lousy days and sometimes people probably shouldn’t post when they are in hot headed modes.
(If anyone wants to retort to any of that … feel free – I don’t have the energy today to rebuke anything).
I believe the bulk of this condition is genetic – my x S is the walking fascimile of his mother who has lost multiple properties to overspending and lying about the debts until it is too late to catch them up. He also cannot live within his means – never has been able to, but it is everyone else;s fault of course. “I am not paid enough” “It is expensive to live these days” Money burns a hole in his pocket till everything is gone and someone else has to take care of everything.
I couldn’t ever allow myself to be in that much of a vulnerable position – somehow he has supreme confidence that somebody else will sort it out. I just don’t have that kind of faith in the world and always feel the need to have a backstop of sorts even though I have very little at the present time. So although he is powerful and controlling, to my mind having little money makes you powerless – he thinks it is a winning strategy … and it is while you have a fool who loves your false self to pick up the slack, but what about when he leaves here and the divorce is finalised … what then? I can’t be around to see that or I might be tempted to help AGAIN and get sucked back in. I have to keep reminding myself invoking pity is manipulation.
And Skylar – I understand your need to keep contact and have had the same thoughts myself in trying to keep the peace while trying to split possessions and make the permanent split. Many people have suggested bold moves and to be cruel and cold … but to my mind that would mean he had won and I had become like him. I will eventually be at a point of no contact (God willing) but I will do it lovingly and gently. I am also gathering notes about the behaviours and thought processes – they are shockingly complex and so so subtle. It amazes me I was ever able to analyse it and find a name for it. So many actions and meanings in one short interaction – you have to break them apart to find the true subtext.
I will be going no contact because he has taken enough years from me and I have done enough grieving for this disastrous relationship. It has taken me a decade though and I so regret taking that long to come to the realisation nothing would change. I understand why you stay in intermittant contact though – just wanted to stand with you in solidarity as a person who still has him living with her. Not for much longer though!
I am so getting out Green Fried Tomatoes to watch again
Love and hugs to you all. We are not the enemies – don’t lose sight of that. The people on this board understand the pain and want to help each other through it – let’s not move to attack one another’s throats.
From a total peacemaker and person who hates conflict – life is too short@!
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justabouthealed says:
Well, maybe my ability to just hear or read different viewpoints and not take it as drama or disagreement, just people saying “maybe it is this” or “I think that”….is my red flag system out of whack. But truly I thought it a healthy exchange of different people each giving their viewpoint, and then each reader can sort out for themselves what makes sense. And that everyone was listening to each other.
Maybe I’m too tolerant? But differing opinions doesn’t mean that people are seeing each other as the enemy does it? I dunno, maybe I’m just in such a good mood I see everything rosy. Wow….couldn’t have said that two years ago!
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justabouthealed says:
PS and I know rosy can be bad, but my rosy is coming from within, not without. In fact objectively speaking, it has been a challenging day. But I’m just feeling GOOD from within.
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ErinBrock says:
Nic:
Star and Matt have offered advice I would agree with…..
Go covert.
My ‘best’ friend during my battle was my digi recorder (wallmart $38.00).
Voice activated, so no fussing…just set it before he arrives.
Also, security cameras are not expensive if you want video.
I also would NEVER let him inside your home.
Arrange the time….and he must be there or be square…..give him 10 minutes…..not a few hours. This is where we are effected, when we make plans. We can’t. We can’t count on the unreliable. Try to NEVER place yourself in that position. If we have no expectations we can’t be let down. We can have control of that. Make any plans for when your child in gone…..later that night or next day…..
if your invited out….decline. NO….it shouldn’t be this way….but it is…..so counter control it.
Discuss nothing personal with the S and he will never know. fall into a routine of the above.
We need to reduce our vulnerabilites and shake it up, so they can NEVER predict our responses….except bland.
I know your heart breaks for your baby girl…..I’m so sorry for you both! Continue to do whatever it takes to protect her and raise her with love and happiness.
It will get better.
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pollyannanomore says:
I know Just about healed – I am just super sensitive to conflict these days – I wasted too many years on it with the S.
Glad you’re having a good day. I had a tough day at work – neverending expectations about what we can accomplish within a working week – might be time soon to look for something less stressful and more conducive to healing.
Some good advice there EB – I tried the digital voice recorder but wasn’t brave enough to leave it out and what I managed to record from my pocket was too muffled! How did you set your one up so it couldn’t be seen and still recorded clearly?
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nic says:
Matt, Erin and Star thanks for your advice. I think that is a great idea….don’t let him in my house. I will just have to hand her over kicking and screaming. I would have never imagined that he would have went off like that but he did. It was sort an impulsive move grabbing the camera because her behavior was so bizarre. But a hidden camera or recorder sounds good.
I wish I did have a back-up babysitter. I started to add that in my divorce decree that he would have to pay if I need a sitter (when he doesn’t show up) but he pays so much in child support I thought it would have been greedy. I was about to leave the house at 2:30 because he was 15 minutes late at that point but he showed up or none of this would have happened. My mom told me to wait until 3:00 for him. I told her that was ridiculous. I will do the 10 minutes and then just leave.
I have decided not to file for an order of protection.
Thanks again everyone and Happy Thanksgiving to everyone.
P.S. He actually bought me a new camera and brought it over tonight. He stayed outside and handed it over.
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ErinBrock says:
Pollyanna:
Depending on the digi recorder, there are settings that provide for different conditions. I always suggest reading ALL manuals and KNOW your equipment under the conditions you will be using it.
Also….in the beginning, i was scared to leave it out…..but quickly realized hthey discounted me so much, they were most certainly NEVER looking for anything covert.
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nic says:
Twice Betrayed: yes it is agonizing. I try not to think about where he is taking her and who she is around. I don’t know what her little eyes are seeing.
Matt: I agree with Ox and I have always respected the advice you have given me.
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OxDrover says:
On the digi records, you can put it in a flower pot or some place outside so the mike points in the general direction of where he will be standing. If it is outside and the street isn’t too noisy that should work.
Plus, OUTSIDE is an OPEN area so that he is not behind closed doors.
You can get cameras that are PINPOINT and have wide views so you can get one and install it in a light fixture or some other “hidden place’ they are CHEAP now and even will take photos in the dark, can be motion activated and so on.
I suggest that you never be ALONE with the P without a camera, recorder or WITNESS…that way there is NO “he said, she said” crap. Communicate only with EVIDENCE of what you said and what he said/did.
Just like the old “Joe Friday” detective on Dragnet from when I was a kid, JUST THE FACTS, MAMM” No personal conversation and no response to his/her personal conversation. No emotional outbursts of any kind no matter what he says or does unless it is life threatening then yell HELP HELP HELP!!! AND RUN!
Hang in there Nic! (((hugs))))
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pollyannanomore says:
Crap – I thought I was doing so well – I had decided not to be sad about this anymore. And then the most stupid thing … I was sewing and I tried on the dress and it didn’t fit – too small. And I remembered that all this is happening. That my whole world is being ripped apart because I married someone who wasn’t real and didn’t care. Someone who declared war on me and then lied and said there was no war and I was imagining my wounds.
The pain is awful. I have wept over this for years. I don’t think I can bear much more. My eyes are permanently swollen and I don’t wish anyone well. I am tired and I have to keep going because he left me with all the debts and all the pets. And I just don’t want to. The grief is an expanse I could never have imagined – I have literally grieved for years for this. I was crying at each hurt then at all the accumulated hurts and most of all for my lost child. How could he do those things and then lie and say he didn’t?? How can a person do that? Take away the one thing I wanted more than anything in the world. There is nothing I could do to him that would make up for what he took from me.
Thanks Erin but I think we’re pretty much in the silent treatment zone now. I do have a digital recorder and considered taping him venting his lies at me but I don’t see the point in going at him about what he did and he blocks me off with ‘why do you always bring up the past and live there?’ any time I try to get an explanation or apology or even affirmation that it all happened. I now know I am barking up the wrong tree entirely if I ever think he will be sorry.
He is not sorry for the grief or pain he caused me. He enjoyed it because it made me more dependent on him and less likely to leave. That is so hard to accept and makes me cry even harder – he liked my pain. Oh Lord what kind of a monster is that? Sweet Lord … someone who revels in pain must be of the Devil the Lord of Lies.
Even though I have read and I understand I think I can never fully comprehend that someone could ENJOY watching another person in pain, do nothing to help them out of it and kick them when they are down. And what did I do to deserve that? I loved him and listened to him and supported him and helped him and cooked and cleaned and scrubbed the collars and cuffs of his shirts and bought all his clothes and shoes right down to his underwear and he treated me like a piece of dirt. How can we not want revenge?How can we not be bitter? Accept and move on … I feel stuck
And have done for years. The pain is so raw and huge.
Sorry for venting – today is hard.
Nic surely you can get some support from a child psych that this child is upset at having to go with him?? That must be the most horrible thing to have to leave her with him so upset. Footage or recording will definitely help you and others to believe you.
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ErinBrock says:
PollyAnna:
This is where we must find a way to optimise our choices. WE can’t change what happened, why it happened and how it happened…..we can only move forward….process, learn and grow….
Make a decision for YOUR future. Remove the fear, confront all the financial issues you face and decide to allow yourself happiness.
We have two routes to take…..sadness or happiness…..choose the later.
Grief takes time….and I’m not sure our experiences will ever leave us, but we can find good in bad and take it with us.
I’m sorry your feeling bad tonight. Turn yuor anger into action….
Don’t be hard on yourself, accept each phase and LOVE yourself!
NC is on the journey to peace within.
Without expectations we can’t be disappointed…..you know you can’t expect anything from a S without disappointment….EXPECT THAT!
CRY, CRY, CRY…..then….REMAKE THAT DRESS and where it with pride, strength and courage!
YOU ARE WORTH IT!!!
XXOO
EB
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pollyannanomore says:
Oh thanks EB – dumb to cry over a dress – don’t know why it brought up everything that was broken and hard – I have always been a useless seamstress anyway – did I think that just having a positive attitude would turn me into a world class fashion designer?!
It is hard – I have already cried so so much. I feel like I should be done now but more and more comes. And yes I know I could expect nothing but disappointment from him – it is better to be in the truth no matter how painful that truth is. I just wish I could go back and ‘unmeet’ him! Go back to how I was and who I was. It is such a journey to take to get back to ourselves when we least feel able to do it after all the years of abuse.
How did you get to a stronger place? how long has it taken you to get there? When did you start feeling better?
I know NC will be the best and it is almost time – the thought of that is upsetting me as well even though I know rationally it is for the best. I still worry about hurting his feelings even though he has only fake feelings to hurt. I think often – what if I am wrong? What if he was just a pig? What if he does have feelings? But then I have to ask … if that were the case and it was a normal breakup then why would we even be breaking up? If he was capable of looking into himself and taking responsibility for his transgressions and working on himself there would be no need for breakup. I didn’t expect him to be superhuman -= just to meet me halfway and I could have done the rest. It’s just such a waste of life. I can’t believe I was so used. It hurts so bad.
Thanks so much for caring – it’s making me cry. I really needed to see someone who understood care a bit for me tonight. My heart is sore.
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velveeta says:
Pollyaananomore:
You are very sad and really hurting You are never useless in any way. You are good and kind. I can tell
Velveeta
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ErinBrock says:
Pollyannanomore:
We get to a point where we are tired of being in ‘this’ place. Then we mmorph onto the next phase of grief. It really is a process.
It’s not the dress your crying over, it was just ‘another’ thing. A trigger, A reminder…..
Don’t wish…remain in reality….the longer we remain in reality we will eliminate the fantasy.
A postive attitude will proved so much…..AND YES…maybe just a world class fashion designer after all!
The world is our oyster! If we think, believe and commit….the benefits are immeasurable.
RE:”How did you get to a stronger place? how long has it taken you to get there? When did you start feeling better?”
My strength came from my reality…
I had 2 strokes, a disected caroted artery and cancer…..starting one month after separation….HEEELLLLLOOOOO….lifes way of teaching me to get rid of the stress huh?
, then he kidnapped the kids…..HEEELLLOOOOOO….break or fight? The S filed for divorce at my most vulerable point….HHEEEELLLOOOOO….GAME ON FUCKER!
I VERY Easily…..could have ‘given up’…..But…BNOT A CHANCE!
I used this all to gain strength, find the kids and expose the S.
It became a ‘ME or HIM’ deal…..a deal I WASN”T GOING TO LOSE!
Facing death and the lose of everything….NO WAY!
I booted him in Oct 06, got sick in Nov 06….and In Aug 09 divorce was finalized…..
Hmmmm….takes time. I used the time, and still do to learn, educate and rasie awareness to anyone….This helps me.
I cant’ conceive forgiveness (too much destruction) but other have found this…. I still think his life here is wrothless and wish for him to be eaten by a shark or drive off a cliff!
I spent 28 years with this man…..and all it amounted to (for him) was a peice of shit!
I am much better off for all my experiences…as sucky as it’s all been….I have been taught lessons I couldn’t read in a book….I survicved all of it….I have learned I am able to do whatever I want.
I learned my parents are selfish, lonely controlling idiots…..that never loved me the way I had fantasized….SO…I give up nothing of myself for them……they are old and THEY can live with what they participated in….and take it to their grave.
I don’t “OWN’ situations that are NOT mine!
I can’t change anyone…I can only set examples by what I choose to do, act on, respond to…..
There have been just so many lessons for me…..and you know what….there is no prize for us, no notoriety, no kudos, no public benefits, no doors opening etc…..
I HAVE GIVEN MYSELF THESE THINGS!!!
It is what it is…..
And everything works out the way it should…..
Remain strong, keep your courage, have faith in yourself……
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OxDrover says:
Dear EB,
I can relate to so much of what you write and your attitude of SURVIVE at all costs. In some of the ways we look at things, it is a bit different but the over all message of WE HAVE TO TAKE CARE OF US is right there side by side.
That is the message I “preach” and will continue to preach, we must rescue ourselves, pull ourselves up by our own boot straps. that doesn’t mean we can’t cheer each other on as we all are on the “road to healing.” sometimes that “encouraging word” is all we need to get up and move ourselves on closer to healing, or to prevent us from being lured off the road by the siren song of another abuser or user, or back into the swamp of despair.
Each victory, and sometimes just taking one step forward or even standing upright is a “victory” of sorts. Doing the BEST that we can do is a victory! It may like you said, not get us any kudos from anyoone else but we have to learn to VALIDATE OURSELVES, and to glory in our own “secret” or “unknown” victories.
I notice about the Ps that they seem to REQUIRE an “audience” in order for a ‘victory’ to count to their way of thinking. We don’t have to have that audience, we can enjoy our own victories, but i think sometimes we have to be taught that OUR OPINION, EVEN OUR OPINION ALONE is worthwhile, is valid, is ENOUGH! Learning to do that and not depend on “external” validation has been one of the BIGGIE steps for me. In the past, one of my biggest downfalls was depending on others to “judge” my actions and accepting that self-serving judgment as VALID when it was NOT.
TOWANDA for strength, and for recognizing our strengths and overcoming the devestation! You rock EB!
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