The sociopath’s irrational optimism
PDF We’ve discussed many of the sociopath’s traits, such as his missing empathy and compassion; his tendency to remorseless interpersonal exploitation; and proclivity to audacious acts of lying, deception and sundry other violating behaviors.
Now, I’m tempted to add to the mix what I call the sociopath’s tendency to “irrational optimism.”
By “irrational optimism,” I mean the sociopath’s irrationally optimistic belief, if not conviction, that he’ll either evade or, somehow, otherwise prevail over, the real, probable consequences of his actions.
Consider this brief, hypothetical interaction between a sociopath and his partner, who learns with certainty that he, the sociopath, has been cheating on her with three different women simultaneously:
Partner: How could you do that?
Sociopath: Do what?
Partner: Sleep with three different women behind my back. Are you f*cking demented?
Sociopath: First of all, that’s abusive. So stop right there and don’t abuse me. Second, I didn’t sleep with f*cking anybody. Not that I haven’t been tempted, given how lame our sex life is.
Partner: Why are you lying? I know who these women are, and I can prove you’ve been sleeping with them. Do you think I’m that f*cking stupid?
Sociopath: Let me ask you something. Why the hell would I sleep with three women and risk getting some f*cking STD? Think about it. You know me…or maybe you don’t? Does that make any sense?
The sociopath here is (or was) irrationally optimistic on two levels—first, that he’d be able to perpetrate this caper, undetected, indefinitely; and second that, once busted (as, now, he is) he’ll be able to squirm his way out of accountability.
We could address many aspects of this interaction, but I’d like to emphasize his last argument: “Let me ask you something. Why the hell would I sleep with three women and risk getting some f*cking STD? Think about it. You know me…or do you? Does that make any sense?”
This argument captures, I think, the sociopath’s “irrational optimism” beautifully. In offering the glibly insulting invitation to “think about it,” he makes a spectacle of his audacity and contempt: he really expects, and believes his partner should, accept his invitation [to think about it].
But even more than expecting her to “think about it,” which is outrageous enough, he expects her, in his irrational optimism, actually to be persuaded by his argument. In his irrational optimism, he is hopeful, if not confident, that she’ll choose to disbelieve the evidence she holds indisputably in her hands in favor of accepting his insulting logic.
How classically sociopathic is this?
More importantly, what contributes to the sociopath’s irrational optimism?
We might begin with his malignant sense of entitlement—that is, the sociopath’s belief that he is entitled to obtain the gratifications he wants. One of the most dangerous aspects of the attitude of entitlement is how it renders impotent—denudes of power—rule, limits and laws.
When you feel entitled to something, if it’s not accomodatingly forthcoming, you feel entitled to take it. You’ve laid, in your entitlement, a kind of psychic possession of what it is you want, so that now it becomes, in your mind, yours—specifically, your right to have.
And so if someone (or something) obstructs your seizing what now, in your mind, is your right to possess, then you are free to take it—to take, in fact, whatever is yours—by any means necessary.
Conferring this entitled status upon oneself encourages the irrationally optimistic view that, one way or another, accomodation looms…it must!
Closely related to this is the sociopath’s grandiosity: he believes he can and should succeed at his high-wire machinations because he’s that good, that clever and—it can’t be stressed enough—that entitled.
His grandiosity may take the form of thoughts like, “Sure, normal guys couldn’t pull this shit off, but I’m not your normal guy.”
And so, when you feel like you can do things that others can’t—especially things unsupported by “reality”—this is grandiosity. And grandiosity feeds, I believe, very directly, the sociopath’s tendency to irrational optimism.
Then there is the sociopath’s contempt, so inseparable from his grandiosity. As we discussed, the sociopath, in the example above, expects his insulting argument to succeed, either because he’s convinced he’s smart, clever and persuasive enough to be found so convincing, or else he’s convinced that his partner is dumb, naïve and/or desperate enough to believe him. (Or both!)
As a consequence, the sociopath’s contempt leaves him at constant risk of underestimating others, and overestimating himself. In his irrational optimism, fed by his contempt, he fails to appreciate how close he is always is—perhaps just one more reckless risk away—from being busted.
What else feeds the sociopath’s irrational optimism? How about his stupidity?
This may sound provocative, but let me explain. I suggest that blind faith supports a perspective of irrational optimism, and the sociopath operates with a kind of blind faith. That is, he operates in the blind faith that, somehow or other, he’ll escape accountability for his latest transgression.
Where does his blind faith come from? Two good sources, I’d suggest, are his grandiosity and arrogance—they blind him, I contend, to certain realities, effectively making him stupid on some level.
And his stupidity reinforces his irrational optimism.
Quite obviously, I’m not talking I.Q. stupidity, but rather judgement-level stupidity. The sociopath’s personality pathology mars his capacity to make wise, intelligent judgements in many circumstances.
(My use of “he” in this article is a convenience, not to suggest that females aren’t capable of the behaviors and attitudes discussed. This article is copyrighted © 2009 by Steve Becker, LCSW).
written by Steve Becker, LCSW • Permalink •
Spirit40 says:
Hello EB, Oxy….. =)
I remember getting literally sick to my stomach and thinking knowing he was trying to drive me “crazy”…. first off … I am Italian..
been there done that, dont mess wit me….and the last 3 months knowing and gaining strength I would say ” you cant break me” Im stronger than you….maybe I should say more ‘human” , I used to say you have no soul , just whats on the outside… we actually all look the same if you were to cut us open but not to have a soul….I figured it out and gained strength knowing , not allowing someone to try and destroy me… jealous lil boy….
one of my favorite lines from a movie thunderheart….
” Sometimes they have to kill us. They have to kill us, because they can’t break our spirit.”
They can try all they want to break our spirits…. we are stronger than they are…. I am thinking if I stay up later I wont wake at 4 am tonight LOL … thanks for letting me share and read.. hugs
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OxDrover says:
Spirit,
In trying to get your sleep cycle adjusted, it is impossible to make yourself go to sleep, but you CAN make yourself stay awake.
I suggest that you set a bed time. Then set a get up time. So say your get up time is 6 a.m. set bedtime at 8 hours previously, so 10 p.m (or there abouts) If you don’t go to sleep til 12, STILL GET UP at 6:00 a.m. and MAKE YOURSELF STAY AWAKE AGAIN UNTIL 10 P.M. It will get eventually to where you go to sleep at the right time, and generally you will sleep til the wake up time. It takes bout 2 weeks to set your “clock” and get it on time. For a few months do NOT vary from this, and do NOT take naps no matter how tired you are. Even on the weekends, keep your schedule so that you adjust that internal “clock” to where it knows what time to sleep and what time to awaken. Then after it is well “set” you can sleep later on the weekends or go to bed a bit earlier.
I know now that if I let myself sleep say 10+ hours, the next night I will NOT be able to get to sleep, so I try to do the get up routine no matter how much or how little sleep I ahve had.
I still have some problems with sleep cycle but it is slowly improving and if I stay on TRACK it gets better.
Though i do not usually recommend “herbs” or “hormones” at all, Melatonin was recommended to me by my physician as a “natural sleep aid” and it does seem to help some.
Also, I take asprin (coated) in the morning and at night for relief of minor aches and pains (of old age and arthritis) that we start to notice and bother us when we turn out the lights to sleep.
I also run a fan in the room for “white noise” and that seems to help overcome the “darth vadar” sound of my sleep apnea machine.
Alcohol actually inhibits restful sleep so lay off the booze, decrese caffine or stop it after noon, and try to “wind down” for an hour or so before bed time. turn the lights down lower in your house as well.
Also, keep in mind that it is NATURAL to sleep less hours and less deeply as age advances so maybe 8 hours is more than you need, but I like to shoot for that as a “goal”—and settle for whatever I can get!
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pollyannanomore says:
Erin Brock – wow what a trauma to go through – and what a horror he did it when you were in such a state. I think I was at my lowest about three or four yrs ago and have gradually dragged myself up over that period – so the time when you were at your lowest I would have been too although we are on diff sides of the world. I thank you so much for your kind words of encouragement and hope. I am not in as grave a situation as you were – yes I have my struggles ahead and it is very very very hard on me but I don’t have children being kidnapped or strokes happening to me. I do have a chronic pain syndrome to try to heal and sleep problems and other things.
Oxy my Rheumy mentioned melatonin which surprised me – I don’t even know if it is still sold here anymore. I seem to recall a scandal about it. There is also Kava – from Fiji which is a natural relaxant. I try to have downtime before bed too, avoid caffeine and keep a regular routine.
Spirit = have you tried journalling what is sitting on your heart causing you not to sleep? It’s just basically fast handwriting – when your handwriting changes style you have hit a deep place and you keep going without editing to see what comes out. Julia Cameron wrote a wonderful book called Vein of Gold that describes the benefits of writing by hand – how often do we just use the computer these days?! You could try interviewing ‘your body’ about the sleep problem or just writing as ‘your sleep’ – just a random suggestion – it might help!
Velveeta … thankyou
I used to be real nice – even rescuing injured birds from parks and taking them to the vet. All my pets are rescues. After this I have decided to be very careful about who I share my niceness with 
Some people just don’t deserve it. Hope you’re finding some healing and community here as I am 
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ErinBrock says:
Pollyanna:
We all have pain and very real experiences….none are more or less valid or important than the others……they are just ‘ours’.
What got me through some dark times…..was knowing I was not as bad off as many, many others in the world…..I used to tell myself….Yes, it sucks…..but there are others suffering worse. always others that would kill to be in my position, at that very mement, as bleak as it seemed at times!
So….who was I to have my pity party?
I also havd a very cherished friend hold my hand……and shortly after I was going on the mend….he called me ans said…Hey EB…I was thinking of you today….I said oh yeah….he said yes…..I went to the Dr. ….I have cancer too!
I was SHOCKED….and replied….I would much prefer you to think of me when you eat a killer peice of chocolate cake or something!
CANCER???? Unfortunately my cherished friend fought a hearty and valient battle and passed in June….at 50 and the ‘picture of health’….in shape, never smoked, gym dude, extreme sport guy…
He would kick my ass, and did at the times I felt pity for myslef…..
He was here for my whole battle, from beginning wedding planning to the end…divorce….he died 1 month after divorce was finalized….I was able to tell him how it turned out…..he was SO proud of me!!!! Now I know he’s looking out over me, during the post mess clean up…..so I gotta make him proud!!!
I was not in as grave as situation as he, as it turned out……but nonethe less….just as important!
BTW….I used to be real nice to! Sometimes it still comes out!
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Spirit40 says:
Woooo hoooo I slept almost through…. thanks for the hints Oxy…. and p.s. I am not a boozer…. maybe a wino just so ya’ll dont get the wrong impression… I know to lay off the booze dosent help you sleep, I cant remember the last time I had some wine… maybe today… Happy Thanksgiving gobble gobble!
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OxDrover says:
Dear Spirit,
Melatonin is sold in WalMart and most stores or health food stores, and is considered as far as I know one of the safer if not safest “herbs and spices”—as a retired family medical nurse practtioner I do not gernerally recommend “herbs and spices” or megadoses of vitamins. There is some research being done on some of these at present, but first off since they are not yet regulated by the FDA the potency of various pills is WIDELY variable. I think there MAY be some benefit in some of them for various things, but just the “wholesale” taking of things that are “natural” I don’t think is wise.
Botulin Toxin is ALL NATURAL but it is THE most TOXIC substance known to man! So “all natural” doesn’t mean crap as far as being “safe” or beneficial is concerned.
Adjusting our schedule to sleep the times of day we want to sleep is more a matter of keeping ourselves FROM sleeping during those times we should be awake, plus taking away the things that interfeer with sleep (caffine and alcohol etc.)
I’m lilke you, not much of a boozer, a glass of wine once in a while. We have some local wines here that are really good (yea, ARKANSAS WINES!) but since I am the only wine drinker in the house and dont drink much, its a shame to open a bottle for just one glass. Two glasses and I would be knee-walking—I’m really a “cheap date” where it comes to alcohol, cheap wine and not much of it!
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Spirit40 says:
Thanks oxy!, yeah I have used unisom… its ok and valerian root… I should try melatonin… st johns wort for moods is ok too but I do not take anything regularly…Hope you have a wonderful day and I will have some cheap wine for both of us!!!!
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OxDrover says:
Dear Spirit,
I think I will take your suggestion and have a nice glass of cheap wine. It is actually pretty good (I think) and is made locally (it doesn’t travel well so is not sold across the country) but everyone I have ever given any too liked it. I’m no big wine expert, just drink what I like and don’t worry about which wine is “superior” in some one else’s opinion. If I like it it is good, If I don’t like it, it isn’t “good.” Gosh I should have expanded that kind of thinking to other things a LONG TIME AGO.
Too soon old, too late smart! At least I had it right in my tastes in wine if not in people or relationships!
Well, I think it is time to hit the trail for the pot luck TG dinner with my living history group! Happy thanksgiving to everyone here and may the rest of your life be P-FREE, I think we have all got LOTS to be thankful for and the wisdom (high cost as it was) we have learned from our associations with the P should be beneficial to us the rest of our lives! God continue to bless us all!
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geminigirl says:
Dearest Oxy and all of you on LF, In Australia we dont celebrate Thanksgiving, but i wish all of you a wonderful, P and N free thanksgiving, and many more of them!! I havea great deal to be thankful for, my good health, my wonderful non P husband,my lovely home and garden, my little black poodle, Bobby, who is such a joy,and my great new family, my Iranian adult “kids”, who are coming over for lunch on Sunday. They are so loving,so sweet, so pleased with everything we do for them, and in one year they have done much to heal my broken heart from my 2 P daughters.
In 10 days, it will be one whole year since I saw my older daughter.I still worry about her, but have accepted that she has done all this to HERSELF. She has thrown away her home, her loving husband, her Mum, her kids, good friends, lots of great jobs, her car, and is still up to her eyes in debt. At the moment she is flat sitting for a friend,-then what?
I have learned SO MUCH on LF, since I first came aboard in June,about gaslighting,mirroring, projection,etc. Ive just finished “Meaning from Madness ” by Richard Skerritt.Very useful in explaining how the Narc and P minds work.I now finally understand what my younger daughter did to me 17 years ago,when she totally cut me out of her life, and forbad me to ever get to see her 3 kids,{now 13, 11, and one year old}. Its called “splitting”. Apparently if the Narc mind finds you a threat to their “perfect phoney image, they will simply split you, ie, pretend you dont even exist. They “NOTHING” you. They can even do it if you are standing in front of them. This explains how she used to avoid all eye contact with me, even 17 years ago I remember she was emotionally cold and disconnected from me.They will cut you and “Nothing’” you without a single qualm,- in the most ruthless way, even if you are close family. They convince their brain that you dont exist.
You are as far as they ar concerned, DEAD. How easy it would be if I could do this to them! But then, Im not a Narcopath, thank God! Imagine giving birth to 2 Ps!!
Oxy, kathy, Erin,if you can survive unspeakable mental torture from the Ps in your life, so can I!! You are ll AMAZING!! Matt and Henry too, you all ROCK!! Any further news re poor newLily? Much Love to you all, and havea lovely Thanksgiving!and {{HUGS!!}}} Gem.XXX
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FriendOfABorderline says:
Spirit40:
You might want to do a bit of research before taking melatonin, especially if you’re suffering from depression (don’t know if you are or not, but I noticed the reference to st johns wort in your post).
My husband is prone to depression and insomnia and found that melatonin kicked off a depressive episode (or at least they were coincidentally close in timing). So he stopped taking it just in case it was the cause.
University of Maryland Medical Center has a detailed article about melatonin here:
http://www.umm.edu/altmed/arti.....000315.htm
Here’s an excerpt from the section on Depression:
“Melatonin should be used with caution in people with depression and should be appropriately timed with light therapy and sleep-phase changes. Disruption of normal circadian rhythm by poorly timed melatonin administration may worsen depression.
Melatonin use along with certain anti-depressant medications can pose potential health risks and should only be used under direct supervision of a qualified doctor.”
Another help for falling asleep (though I don’t know if it helps you stay asleep) is to take a warm bath before bed. I read somewhere that when you fall asleep, your body temperature drops and that the warm bath followed by cooling off can trick your body into thinking that it’s time to sleep.
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Spirit40 says:
Thanks…. I am not depressed just had the life sucked out of me is that the same? I take herbs like st johns although I have not taken it in quite a few months I think it does bring moods up… and my sleep will be off since I am moving , yeah know how a new place screws with sleep also…getting used to it all that but thanks for the info…..FOB… I get plenty of light therapy here in sunny FLA … thank goodness
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geminigirl says:
just wanted to ask,–have any of you had any experience of this “Splitting”? Id never heard of it before I read Richard Skerritts book.{Meaning from madness.}
Its absolutely inhuman behaviour, I feel as if Ive given birth to aliens! Thanks, Love, gemXX
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geminigirl says:
an add on,-At first, for the first year or so, I thought it was just passive aggression, ie, a way of pressing my buttons{the no-contact from my 2nd p daughter.} But 17 years later,still NC. Now I am NC with both of them, one by my choice!
Their brains definitely work differently from “normal” people’s. LOL! Gem.XX
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OxDrover says:
Dear Gemini,
Whatever you call it it is CONTROL…it is a sort of punishment if you will. When we go NC with them, we are TAKING the ultimate CONTROL over who we associate with.
When they discard us because we are of no more use to them, usually they do this after a DEVALUATION, they are saying “you are worthless and no good to me, so I will deprive you of my company to show you I am IN CONTROL.”
So in a way when we go NC we are doing the same thing, because if we refuse contact, WE are in control.
When my egg donor thought she had my son C, his wife, and the TH-P in her pocket to do her bidding, “yes mamm” her and all that, she didn’t NEED me any more so she DEVALUED me, I wouldn’t do her bidding and couldn’t be bribed, so I was WORTHLESS To her, that is until they got arrested (all except C of course) and now she was WITHOUT anyone so she wanted me to come “back” to her—but I would not play “let’s pretend I didn’t do any of this nasty crap to you” and she couldn’t stand that—admit that she was a liar, that she was hateful, manipulative and mean? NOPE not any more chance of that than your daughter apologizing (sincerely) for hitting you or trashing your studio. LOL
When I went NC with her, I TOOK BACK CONTROL.
What I call “splitting” is what she did to my son C and me, put him in the middle wiht the old CHOICE of her, and his wife and his brother and his “friend” or me—no middle ground for C. Either with her and the “aliens” or with me. Of course since there was a “vote” and everyone voted that I was “insane” and “crazy” or had a brain tumor was why I was being so “crazy” as to make up “lies” about the Trojan horse and my P son. LOL but truth is NOT about a “vote” any more than we can change the shape of the earth by all of us “voting” that it is FLAT!
They divide and conqueor, split two people apart by talking to both behind their backs and get the other two to ‘fighting” then keep the drama going. “Oh, let me tell you what suzie said about you” or “I wouldn’t take tht from her” and so on.
But whatever you call it, it is about CONTROL of the situation, and being the BOSS. And, they love to punish us, and if they know we love them, what better way than to deprive us of their company and better yet, their grandchildren!
My sperm donor did that with my half sibs and I have had no relationship with them since we were kids. He told them all kinds of lies about me. Of course one of them is a P just like him. But he destroyed what he knew I VALUED. They go for the things they know you care about. In your daughter’s case, she deprived you of your grandchildren, but she ALSO deprived them of a relationship with YOU, which they may resent her for later. Not that there is anything you can do about it now. I am not sure how the inheritence laws work in Oz but if you leave them even a token sum in your will or some item, they will have to hve a copy (legally) of your will and your wishes, so you could write an open letter to them in the will ( which would be filed with the court here so your daughter couldn’t destroy it) and say something like,
“I dearly love my grandchildren, Joe, sue and Lily, and would have enjoyed getting to know them, but was prevented by my daughter Satana, from ever seeing them, but I would like them to have X $$ each and to know that their grandmother loved them” or whatever item(s) you want them to have. that’s one way around her “fort.”
Or put in the will, $1 to my Daughter Satana and no more because she prevented me from seeing my GC, her children.”
As my granny would have said, “there is more than one way to kill a cat than choking it to death with butter.”
Speaking of cats, I think my little cat Dot, who has only recently become a “house cat” because my son C’s psychopathic cats had made her life unbearable outside, has now become a psychopath herself (aren’t all cats psychopaths?) She is now chasing the dog all over the house, and when he turns and chases her, she runs onto the carpet in the living room where he knows he is not allowed to go, and she sits there teasing him trying to get him to “get into trouble” for setting foot on the carpet! What a little witch she is! I’ve had to put my potted palm in the bedroom to keep her from shreading it! I asked son C when I woujld ever not have to rearrange my life for cats, dogs, and other psychopaths!@ LOL At least I can boss the kids around! LOL
Haven’t had any contact with Lily, Gem, sorry. All we can do is to remember her and pray for her. Keep your chin up!@ We are all blessed so much, we are NOT Ps.
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Stargazer says:
Dear gang,
I haven’t been around much; I haven’t had sociopaths on my mind lately. I did find the person that I believe will probably be one of the most important influences in my life–a new therapist. I don’t know how long I’ll have her. I get 10 free sessions through a church she works with, and then she is going to try and work with me on affording her rates, but I’m not getting my hopes up. For as much of a loner as I am and for as mistrustful of therapists as I am, I liked her right away. It took about 3 sessions to begin to trust her and let her help me. This is a record for me.
I am starting to recover a lot of the repressed emotions from childhood. There is just so much, due to all the physical, sexual, and emotional abuse and neglect I suffered throughout my childhood. I know it will take a little while to recover. The hardest part is recovering all the rage (she calls it “outrage”) because I am afraid to express it. That is the part that has kept me depressed for so long. I am trying to gather the courage to simply scream and yell or do what I have to do when I feel it. It’s awkward and uncomfortable for me because I was never even allowed to say “no” growing up.
This is really not an easy process, and mostly I haven’t wanted to be around people very much. I was very glad to spend T-giving alone with my “family” of my animals and a lot of food for all of us. Just meditating and relaxing. I also started a countdown thread on my reptile forum, as I am nearing 20,000 posts over there. It’s been a lot of fun and about as much contact as I can handle at the moment.
I feel if I can release some of this anger, my life will change radically. I’m already feeling a glimmer of hope through the depression.
I was also thinking about Nic’s situation and have a few words about that, but maybe in another post.
I hope you all had a nice and p-free holiday. Note, I used a small “p” because they shouldn’t be given that much importance.
Hugs,
Star
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witsend says:
Stargazer,
Star, you sound like you are doing good….Really, really good.
Many times even when we are feeling like we are doing good, the holidays roll in and they can set us back. I suppose it is the reminder of the whole family dynamics thing that many of us still struggle with.
Towanda for you, for enjoying Thanksgiving, in your personal way. And I love that you cooked, trimmings and all!
Whatever work you have been doing with your therapist and on your own, shows….I hope that you will continue to flourish on your healing journey.
I to have had 3 sessions with a new therapist. Actually this lady was refered to me for my son to see. If and when he is willing to see her she is available for him to see. But until that happens I have been making appointements and seeing her myself.
I have been focusing on myself in these sessions but of course there are times when I speak of him as well.
She did inform me that if he were to come to her it might take awile for him to even trust her. And one of the things she would do (to gain his trust) is go along with him and enter his world of “magical thinking”. His perception, his world, his lack of reality….She would let him lead her into this “world”.
I found that very thought provoking.
She tends to believe (by my accounts, as that is all she has right now) that his will/mind set is so strong that even hypnosis wouldn’t work on him to take him back to his trama.
Hypnosis was something I had inquired about. she said that hypnosis works when the individual is “willing” but if you fight it in any way shape or form it usually isn’t sucessful.
I am curious as to what your therapist did and how you were able to touch base with your repressed memories of your childhood so soon in therapy.
Is your therapist that good or was it also that you were “ready” to do so?
You go girl…..Your an inspiration for us all…. It’s all about peeling those layers. That’s what I have always been told.
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Stargazer says:
Wit,
I really appreciate your support. Thank you! I really felt a shift in the last few days doing some writing, dreamwork, and processing, and a piece of anger lifted. I am starting to think about my future, what would give meaning to my life, and where I may want to move to.
I remember reading your earlier post about this therapist. It sounded like she really understood your son. This can be such a relief when you find the right therapist. I feel my therapist really understands me, too. Regarding your therapist saying she would enter into your son’s world of magical thinking, this is actually a very effective tool and requires the therapist to have a very strong center. I once had a therapist who told me he did this for 9 months with a delusional client, and it helped. It sounds like there is a chance for your son and this new therapist has given you hope. I’m glad you were persistent in looking for help. When I read what your therapist said about your son basically being stuck at the developmental level he was at his father’s death with 5 y.o. anger toward you, it made a LOT of sense to me. This is basically what my therapist says about me, that I am developmentally stunted due to all the abuse I suffered, but that eventually I would learn to reparent the inner child and the child and adult would catch up to each other. It’s happening slowly. I look forward to hearing how this all progresses for you and your son. Hang in there. Sounds like things are moving along.
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Stargazer says:
Regarding the holiday thing, I have not felt that dread/loneliness on the holidays for the last few years. I think so much of it is culture-induced. Once I started asking myself, “What do I really want to do today,” all the judgments about what I should be doing just stopped. Truth be told, the holidays are really just extra days to do things I want to do. Maybe some day that will change, and I will have some family-like people that I won’t want to be without on the holidays. Hasn’t happened yet.
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henry says:
Star I think it is great that you are going to talk to some one u r comfortable with. Deal with all that childhood stuff that made us who we are. I was looking at some pictures of me the other day. I look wounded and afraid, scared and ashamed, kinda like a deer in the head lights but always able to jump out of the way just before I get hit and I just keep on grazing, going through life not sure of much. I question myself all the time. I hate who I am most of the time. Here is another friday nite and I am trying to muster up the courage too go mingle with a crowd, have a few drinks, see what happens..No expectations – but like all friday nites I will prolly not do it. I hate that I fear running into him as I prolly wouldnt anyway. Holidays are all hype – they are not a Norman Rockwell painting for me either. But I make the most of them. I did see my son’s and grandkids yesterday – was very nice. Anywho Star – dont hold back with your new therapist. Fight for some relief from the hold your childhood has on who you can be…stay strong..
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Stargazer says:
Thank you so much, Henry (((hugs))). The one thing I noticed right away about this therapist is that she really cares. Before our first session, she called me several times when I didn’t return her first call. From the minute I met her, I liked her. I didn’t realize how important it is to have someone in my life who cares and can help me. I have done so much on my own, but felt I just couldn’t continue to do it on my own. I was always envious of friends who had had a longterm therapist that they loved, because it never happened for me. It’s amazing what a difference it’s made in my life, even after 3 weeks.
Holidays don’t phase me at all any more. I avoid the malls and all the hype. I don’t play Xmas music. I just pretty much treat it like another day. I do what I want, which usually involves hanging out with animals (maybe a friend or two) and my online friends. I cannot have a holiday without my reptile site. They have come to be such a great community for me. I hope I never have to leave there because after 3 years, it would be very difficult. Anyway, I hate all the hype around holidays. I’m glad you had a good one
.
I understand what you mean about seeing the scared, wounded person in the mirror. My mirror image, when I relax the muscles in my face, is very hurt and angry. This is the inner child that is stymied at the developmental phase where the abuse started. My therapist was explaining that it takes reparenting that child until the child is able to be “integrated” with the adult. I don’t know if you feel like this, but I’ve always felt I was kind of a split person–the adult part putting on a face to the world and trying to survive, and this other part that I couldn’t show to anyone.
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henry says:
yep I know what you mean – here on the blog I can be myself – but if i met you all in person i would morf into that other person that i dont like…
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amber says:
Uggghhh….I’m pretty sure I have swine flu. I’ve had a 103 fever for two days, horrible headaches, chills, awful cough…I just feel terrible.
My sister saw the EX last night and that’s not making me feel any better. He’s such an asshole. She said they made eye contact and he waved. And she turned around to ignore him and he went out of his way to avoid her the rest of the night. Classic move. He’s the best at avoidance. Guess he brought the new victim out. And for some reason today, I can’t stop thinking about him, and being with her, and it really sucks. I’ve been doing so well and I feel like this is setting me back. I long for the day that thoughts of him won’t bring me down so much.
And I’m with the rest of you about the hype around the holidays. I used to love them, but I really can’t wait for them to be over this year. I have too many bad memories from last year. This was the time of year where the begining of the end started with him.
Ohhhh…I just hate being so down right now. Thanks for letting me rant. Hope you’re all well.
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henry says:
Amber Sound like the flu too me.. dont worry about that x spath of yours now – you take care of yourself…
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ErinBrock says:
Amber:
Feel better ……
Wehn we are vulnerable….it all can crash down….
KEEP IN MIND……
IT”S NOT YOU anymore!!!
Try to divert your thoughts with a crazy movie….something totally non romantic or triggering…like startrek!!!
Drink lots and rest….your mind too!
XXOO
EB
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amber says:
Thanks Henry and EB. I’m trying not to worry about him, but this time of year is just hard for me not to. And being stuck home alone with the flu isn’t helping. My sister said, just be glad he’s not your burden anymore. And I’m glad that he’s not, but I can’t stand the thought of him being able to still enjoy life because he doesn’t derserve it. But I have to remind myself that I KNOW the TRUTH. I know what a miserable, rotten waste of space he is. His clock is ticking and eventually his world will come crashing down. Well, I can hope!! hehe.
I was speaking with a friend recently and she had been in a relationship that was similar and she gave me the greatest anaolgy. She reminded me that he is toxic and the longer I keep him around the more sick he will make me. She said, it’s like when you buy yourself a big, expensive, juicy steak that you plan on cooking that night but something comes up so you throw it in the fridge. Then the next night comes along and something else comes up, so the steak sits in the fridge. Then 2 nights later, you’re too busy to cook it and you don’t want it to go to waste so you throw it in the freezer with hopes that it’s still good. Then a few months go by and you take it out and thaw it, and then something else comes up and you can’t cook it. So after a few days, you realize you can’t cook it and you throw it back in the freezer. So the next time you take it out, it’s slimey and smells bad, and is rainbow colored. You don’t want to waste it but you KNOW that meat is bad, spoiled, you KNOW that it’s going to make you sick, so WOULD YOU REALLY EAT IT?!?!?!?! So if I know the same thing about this man, that he is bad and will make me sick, then why would I want to keep him around. I’m trying to keep my chin up and keep my mind off him.
And startrek won’t work..lol..it’s the last movie we saw together…HAHAHAHA. Thanks for the suggestion though. I’m just snuggled on the couch with my puppy and watching wheel of forture!! LOL..good old Friday night. Oh well, things WILL GET BETTER!! I know it. Thanks guys. HUGS.
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ErinBrock says:
My duagher got a call yesterday from the S’s step mother…
During the divorce, she was a info feeder to me and after she switched teams out of guilt….I never trusted her, nevr had any reason to…..but this call was VERY interesting.
These people have never been a part of the kids life, so the my daughter was questioning how she got her cell….
DUhhhhh!
The S spoke to his brother and I’m sure cried about not knowing what the kids were up to and put step mom up to calling….daughter spoke with her for 1 minute and said….hey….my moms right here ya wanna talk to her….and passed the phone to me rolling her eyes….CLASSIC!!!!
I was as happy as a pig in shit…..and played her with my counter control…..she NEVER asked how I was, how my health was or the kids…..I kept the talk going about how she must be so happy to be helping others with her mission (she’s mormon and on a mission) and how rewarding it was…..
She said daughter sounded so happy…..I said, yes, the kids are doing wonderful and they are really thriving and happy. We are with my boyfriend and family (lie HA) (he’s been telling people…EB has someone serious in her life???WHAT???), so I played along……..basically, she was calling to see if we were holed up eating bread and water…..and hoping that was the report she could make back.
It was such a manipulation, not shocking, but humorous to me…..how SHE thinks she can play me…..All during the divorce, I could tell she was being manipulative, but when her hubby was dying and the S was laying his abuse on her thick, she would call me….I’d tell her…..welcome to my world! I just played along at the right times…..Counter control…..she knows what she raised, so she can live out eternity with him….NOT ME!!!!
I told her I LOVE YOU….and take good care, life is so good and so many blessings…..
And Happy Thanksgiving, I had to get back to my party……
This is the same peeps that tried to transfer my investment property over to the S AFTER the divorce……UH, yes…..they don’t know I was aware of that! Yeah MAH…..Love ya! (Hey I learned that one from your son!) Kick you in the head and follow it up with a Love You!
This is just one example of how we must remain aware…..always….know who will be out to manipulate and why and NEVER fall prey to the ‘covert’ concern for us or our kids…..
Sorry lady….me and kids ain’t puddy anymore!
LOVE YA!
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Stargazer says:
Hang in there, Amber. I always regard a cold or a flu as a “healing” crisis. It forces you to just stay in bed and rest. This is generally a good thing, to let your body rest and recover. I’m sorry you had a minor setback. You will get through it. (((hug)))
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witsend says:
Amber,
Hope you feel better soon….It sucks to be sick. However it is good time for R&R and sometimes that is the only way our bodies actually can get enough of this is when we are sick.
The holidays are hard. They tend to remind us (as if we don’t have ENOUGH reminders) of our aloneness.
But I think as we become further along in our journey, and start feeling better about ourselves, we can appreciate that being alone is being in “good” company…..
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witsend says:
For anyone wanting to go see a good movie, I highly recommend the Blind Side. Very good movie.
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henry says:
thanx for the heads up on the movie wit… Amber I like the steak analogy – but in my case when i look under rocks for love i always find slime..
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robxsykobabe says:
AHHHH HA HA!!! This article is absolutely perfect…
Let me share my experience with the ‘stupid sociopath”…
During our last conversation, he began quoting things out of a book I KNOW I had at my house (His Needs, Her Needs). I asked him where he was getting his quotes from because they sounded quite familiar. He made up some bull shit web site (actually he said it was the book-eharmony 29 levels of compatability…but the only way I believe you have access to that is if you are REGISTERED…which means he was also using a dating website while dating me).
We hung up and I looked in my spare room for the book. If HE doesnt have it then I SURELY will, right? The book was NOWHERE to be found!
Of course I called him and asked him if he had the book, and of course he denied it. He then got VERY angry with me stating he didnt appreciate being accused of stealing and how could he and I have a relationship if I didnt trust him!
I blocked ALL forms of contact after that except my phone cause Id have to get a new one all together. After not talking for about 3 days, he left me a message playing the victim talking about how hes going to assume we are not talking now and how he expects an apology for ‘hurting his feelings”…
Now, this is pure STUPIDITY!
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one_step_at_a_time says:
r babe – i am not stalking you, honestly
….we seem to be the last 2 up and about tonight.
i watched mine completely change a story the last time we talked. ‘he’ tried 2 or 3 stories and none of them were working on me…don’t think she quite expected that. once she got her stride with the story she just started to elaborate and weave and run with it.
then sowed up online as one of his ‘friends’ and used everything i said (I revealed my sleuthing to him – would never do that again) EXCEPT THE WORD SOCIOPATH, to strike out at me. used all the words, ‘cept sociopath. SNORT!
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robxsykobabe says:
Ahhhh…what utterly DINGY stupid people we’ve had contact with!
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one_step_at_a_time says:
i was soooo disappointed that she didn’t use the word ‘sociopath’. LOL
SHE TIRED TO GET ME TO FEEL SORRY FOR HER, ‘oh now i am a sociopathic deathblogger’.
I said, ‘you are not going to pull that shit.’ shut her right up.
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robxsykobabe says:
I am a very moral person and because of this, I often used feeling words like “offended” or “insulted” or anything to express how one may/does feel.
What I found was that when my ex was willing to admit he swrewed up, he was somewhat humble in his ‘standing up for himself’, but when he was trying to deny his responsibility, thats when FEELING words (particularly offended and insulted) began to make an appearance.
Again, mimicing me, he threw back at me MY OWN FEELINGS and used them as his own—-ahhhhhh ha ha, the stupidity was so evident, but moreseo, the SICKNESS is so evident!
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robxsykobabe says:
Reading some of the previous posts made me think of when ‘princess’ and I met how he told me he was in the ‘process’ of buying a house. That was fine cause, most of us go home at one point or another to save money or because we’ve fallen on hard times.
6 months into our relationship, he began talking about marriage and moving in with me. It seemed like a fine idea, however, it never manifested itself. He began talking again about buying a house…again, it didnt manifest-HELL, he couldnt even buy himself a dependable car! I noticed if we were out some place talking about homes, he would say “WE’RE in a condo”…and I would think to myself “WHO is in the condo?”
About 6 months ago, after being taken to court by his childs mother (who he has NEVER seen, nor does he acknowledge) for more child support, I found out that his credit was so bad that the ONLY way he will EVER get a house is if he lives with someone…and he owes $20,000 in back pay…ahhhhh, its neverending
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one_step_at_a_time says:
r babe
what complicated lives they lead; it’s a wonder their adrenal systems don’t just conk out and kill them by the time they are 40. But then again, one would have to register ‘stress’ for the adrenals to be affected.
makes me wonder about the financial situation of my spath.
‘he’ was going to help me out financially. i hoped for it and consequently didn’t give enough time and energy to taking care of my worsening situation. I should have been taking care of things, instead i was taking care of ‘him’.
one of the places i have ‘a need/ unfinished business’ (am reading the betrayal bond)
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eileen says:
This is another very good article! I couldn’t get my head around his blatant lies – even after I found out everything about him and kicked him out he still found the audacity to deny everything. I had been talking for 3 hours with his other girlfriend/wife-to-be, and there he was telling me he had never met her!
And as part of the stalking that followed he was acting as if nothing happened, as if he did nothing wrong…which is not completely crazy, it’s actually a good strategy – I saw through it of course, but some people might have thought: if he was that guilty surely he wouldn’t dare coming here? – Really there should be more awareness about sociopaths. Most people including therapists would try and explain their behaviour as if they were human – human people with flaws, but with motives that somehow we can relate to – but there’s no way to understand intellectually what they do and why they do it without prior knowledge of sociopaths. I’m very grateful for this site, it helps so much.
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