He Will Call It Love. (May contain triggers.)
PDF I am often asked how I managed to get out of that place of darkness to live with such light and joy in my heart today. The answer is fairly simple — I chose to. The reality is much more complex. The following piece describes where I got to in that journey. It is an excerpt from my book, The Dandelion Spirit. I originally wrote it on a forum I belonged to about a year after he was arrested. It was my ‘explanation’ of what happened to me in that relationship.
There is a warning with this post — it may trigger you. If it does, breathe — and know, when a trigger explodes in your mind, it is your opportunity to embrace it, walk into it, accept it and heal it. Only you can make that choice. Triggers exist in our mind. The past is no longer. It is gone. The memories are what are hurting us. And when we pull the trigger and let the bullet of memory pierce us, we give ourselves the grace of being free. Nameste
He told her it was ‘love at first sight’. Destiny. Fate. He asked her to marry him on the first date – has anyone ever loved you so completely? Has anyone ever swept you off your feet with such passion? Such fervour? She told him she was not ready. He pursued.
He wanted sex within the first week or two of meeting and showered her with gifts, flowers, champagne, to prove he truly, madly deeply loved her and only her. When she told him it was too soon for physical intimacy, that she needed to ‘go slowly’ he respected her wishes. But, then he arranged a ‘special’ weekend away at an exotic location to surprise her. How could she refuse him?
And on that first time together, he became short of breath, his skin started to flake from lack of oxygen. He had a heart-attack. The ambulance came. She was whisked away, and though his business partners kept her informed of his health, she never knew where he was, or what was truly happening. When next she saw him, he sadly told her of his rare heart condition. Being ‘a man’s man’ he could not fathom living with someone else’s heart beating in his body. He must undergo experimental surgery, but only once his heart has deteriorated to a point that it was feasible — 1 month, 2 months at the outside 3.
He gave her a new cell phone so that she did not need to worry about the expense. He constantly reminded her that though she was successful in her own right, all that she had accomplished to create her beautiful life was nothing compared to what he would make possible. He told her that no one would ever want for her what he could give her, for what he was going to give her were her dreams come true. The dreams she had whispered to him while lying safely in his arms, the world far away and silent. He held her and told her of his love. He laughed and teased her, told her with fervent kisses of his dreams for ‘them’, for their happily ever after.
And she slid into his arms.
Everything circled around his desires and wants—he was dying, he was weak. He could not be ‘excited’. But even in his ‘ill health’, he was only concerned about her well-being. He told her he was setting up trust funds, changing over his insurance policies, investing in her business, investing in other businesses to create a life for her greater than any she could ever imagine – or ask for or wanted. She only wanted him to live.
As his health failed, he would confess that he was part of an organized family. One of the ‘upper echelon’. She didn’t understand. She didn’t believe those things really existed. He told her that was what made her so beautiful. Her innocence. Her belief in goodness.
“You do not believe in evil,” he said, stroking her hair where he held her head against his chest. “You have not seen what I have seen.”
What did the past matter, she wondered. He was dying. Now was all they had to share.
As a parting gift, he wanted to give her the story of his life – “It will be such a story,” he said. “Your fame as a writer will be assured.” It will be called, ‘A New Don Rising’ for he was changing the old guard, he was ridding the ‘family’ of its unethical, illegal businesses. He was honourable, righteous. He did not want to be remembered for the destruction he had created, but for the lives he had saved through his ‘good works’. She was his inspiration, his reason for hanging on to see that what he started was completed, and that she never need for anything again. That she and her daughters were safe from harm.
He had secret friends, and many, many enemies. He will toy with her by telling her that his enemies were willing to harm her and her children to get at him. He told her evil men had sent him three bullets. Pictures of a young girl being violated — she looks like your eldest daughter, he said. These evil men were threatening to kidnap her daughter, drug her and put her in the sex trade unless she remained silent. He promised he would never let harm come to her and them, but she must do what he says and be silent. Only silence will keep her children safe. She will never see these evil men, but he will tearfully tell her of the threats he has received against her and her children.
He will triangulate his relationship with her and with other people. He will tell her who is ‘plotting’ against her. He will tell her who is working with the police to build their case against him and using her and her love for her children as the wedge to destroy him. He will tell her that she is being investigated by child services, that he has men following her to keep her safe and the police have people following her to spy on him and the bad men have people following her to get at him. Wherever she goes there are people following her, taking pictures, watching. And she knows they are there, because sometimes she sees them. Sometimes she is shown pictures. Sometimes, he comments on what she was wearing that day, even when he has told her he wasn’t there. She never knows when someone will be watching. Or not. She never knows.
He will appear emotionally hurt at what he tells her others are doing to turn her against him – and though she will never see or know what others are doing, he will ensure she believes him and is too frightened of her daughters’ safety to risk confronting him or these ‘others’ about him.
He will tell her about his past lovers and relationships – before his marriage. He will tell her how cold and sterile his marriage was. He will tell her that he has never paid for sex, never used pornography, never been with a woman other than his wife while married – but theirs was an arranged marriage between families – she was an exceptional wife and mother but they had never truly, madly, deeply known love together. And now, with her, he does know true love, and he’ll leave out the mad part but she will feel it. And he will ask her about her experiences – and keep the intimate details stored until a later date when he will use the information to terrorize her.
He will always give her compliments. He has known her through many lifetimes – but this is the first time he has to show her his love. She will come to wish it were the last. She will come to believe that his love will kill her. And she will remain silent.
He will act overly concerned, soft and caring when she speaks to him of her terror of these unseen evil men and her fears for her daughters’ safety. He will tell her not to cry. He will tell her it’s okay to cry. He will take her tears and use them as his weapon, to show her how weak, stupid and ugly she is. How pathetic.
And she will believe him. She is pathetic for not being able to handle the terror. She will try to take her own life and he will laugh at her pitiful attempt to end it.
“You can never leave me,” he will tell her. “I will never let you go.”
And she will grow silent and only say those things that keep him calm, that cause him to applaud her, to appreciate her, to admire her.
Eventually, he will tell her that she reminds him of his mother. He will tell her how sad it makes him that his mother will never know her – for she is the woman she would have loved as her daughter-in-law.
He will create a ‘husband’ for her. One of the top family men whom no one will mess with – and to ensure no one messes with her. He will show her the wedding invitations, the marriage certificate. He will promise her that he will have the ‘marriage’ evaporate as soon as he has corrected all the wrongs so that then he can marry her himself — as soon as he has wrought vengeance on those who have tried to harm him. She will never wear the dress. Never walk the aisle. But he will convince her that isn’t necessary. He is doing this all for her. She must trust him. Believe him. She doesn’t. But she never tells him. And she never tells herself of her fears.
He will always take away the evidence and leave her with nothing to show for his promises, his threats, his lies. He will tell her he has signed papers in her name. “It is for your own good,” he will say. And she will remain silent. Sometimes, she’ll wonder where the papers are. But she doesn’t dare look for them. He will be angry if she does. And so, she stays silent and holds onto the darkness he tells her will keep her safe.
He will tell her of the many assassination attempts against him. He will carry a gun and show it to her ‘accidentally’. She will panic and he will laugh at her and tell her to face the truth, “life is tough and if she wants to keep her children safe, she’d better learn to accept he has a gun.” He will call her in a panic, telling her of the latest assassination attempt, telling her his cousin is dead, but he escaped with only minor wounds. He will call her from the funeral, tears in his voice. Begging her to help him understand why it has to be like this. Why can’t they just leave him alone to love her as she deserves to be loved.
He will keep her on the rollercoaster of his lies and she will keep her eyes tightly shut, missing the exits flying by.
He will make sure she fears for her life, and her daughters’ safety. She will despair that she has brought such terror into their existence, and he will tell her it is his fault, but he will fix it. And then, he’ll blame her for the mess and remind her that only he can fix it.
He will arrange for ‘things’ to happen to convince her that the evil men are watching, plotting, attempting to kill her or harm her daughters. There will be dead birds on her doorstep, bombs beneath her car. Kidnappers lurking, items missing from her home.
As her terror rises and she become less and less able to function, he will promise to protect her, to take care of her. He will remind her it is all her fault that she is like this and that the beautiful life he was building for her was destroyed. When a police investigator comes to see her about him and she spends five minutes talking to the investigator, he will yell and scream at her that she is stupid, stupid, stupid. When the ‘other woman’ accosts her in her office, he will scream and yell at her that she should not have gone into the office that day. And he will never explain why there is an investigation, or why the other woman exists. And she will be too frightened to ask.
He will make her change cell phones many times – to foil the evil men from listening to her calls. From tracking where he is and knowing where she is going. But he will always know and make sure she knows he sees her, even when he isn’t there.
He will ensure she knows he is taping her calls by repeating conversations she’s had with others. He will call her from far away places in the middle of the night and accuse her of having another man in her bed. He will accuse her of having at least two affairs. He will accuse her of vile things. He will use every ounce of knowledge he has about her against her. He will use her.
He will ensure she knows he is capable of murder. He will ensure she knows there is no getting away from him. He will ensure she witnesses his ability to harm others, to obtain vengeance. He will build the case to ensure she tries to kill herself and when she fails, he will hold her pinioned in his arms until she becomes the walking dead, alive only through his munificence.
And when he is not there, when he is away, she will sleep with one eye open for he is always lurking, somewhere in the corners of her mind.
I no longer sleep with one eye open. He is not lurking anywhere in the corners of my mind. I have filled my thinking with all that loves and supports me. I have no room for him in my mind today. He is not important. He has no value.He does not count in my life today.
written by M.L. Gallagher • Permalink •
skylar says:
Witsend, Henry,
That’s the conclusion that I’m coming to as well, they need a story to tell and to believe and to fall in love with. It has to have romance and they are the hero.
I’ve also determined that the only way to deal with a P is to tell them a story too. Make it a story that they can integrate into their belief system. It seems to be the only way to communicate with them. They need drama all the time.
“So this one time, at band camp….”
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witsend says:
skylar,
I remember when I first came here, the lying about EVERYTHING was just something I could NOT wrap my brain around.
But when I discovered he really did believe his own lies and was caught up in a “lack of reality” WORLD that I knew nothing about…..That is when I KNEW that this was something so much bigger than I could have ever imagined.
But I am tired of the “stories”. I don’t want to make up stories for him to integrate into his belief system.
I want to live in the REAL world again.
Skylar by trying to “integrate” into their belief system isn’t that just buying into the “never, never land” that they reside in?
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skylar says:
Witsend, I think about it this way:
If you make a japanese friend and you want him to learn english, you would learn a few japanese words too, so that you can at least have some communication.
If your japanese friend was a child, his brain would learn english automatically because children can, but adults need more help.
You obviously can’t live in never-never land with them, but I would hope that you can start by giving them some of the romance/drama they want and then slowly lead them toward reality.
When I saw my P last weekend, I was very nice to him. He was completely distraught by my presence because he looked and smelled like crap and he knew it. He didn’t want me to see him as less than his veneer. Suddenly out of the blue, he reminded me that he has a gift with mechanics and that I and my family will probably be needing my help soon when the world falls apart but he won’t be around because he’s moving to montana or to a foriegn country. At first I thought maybe it’s a veiled threat, but later realized it was a story that romanticized his abilities because his appearance was so disgusting. It might also BE a veiled threat because in his story, he may decide to sabotage my car or something to remind me of how useful he had once been. My response to him was, “yes, honey (that’s what I call him still and he hates it.) I know that you have more abilities than most people. That’s why I know that you can choose not to be a sociopath and succeed, because you’re better than the average sociopath.” So, I didn’t lie, I just added to his story with some semi-truth. I really don’t think he can succeed, but that’s MY story.
I reminded him that St. Paul was a murderer before he bacame a saint. He’s completely befuddled at this point, because his stories aren’t getting through to me, but mine are invading his brain. They’re called memes and all of us are infected by them. The difference is that some memes are not helpful and some of them are. P-memes are not helpful.
http://memecentral.com/
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skylar says:
correction, I meant to say:
that I and my family will probably be needing HIS help soon when the world falls apart
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witsend says:
skylar,
But in the long run what is the point? Isn’t this at some level entertaining the idea that they can change?
Do you really, believe this?
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witsend says:
skylar,
I guess what I am trying to say that any involvement with them brings back the rush of emotions and they try to suck you in their “stories” and have to try and avoid their “game plan”.
And the energy used to stay one step ahead and “play” their own little game with them….
What happened to grey rock? Why keep the communication open with your Ex? If you don’t have to?
I am curious, not judging you….Because I don’t understand.
I am curious because at this time in my life I have to live with the disorder all “around” me. And its always trying to suck me in.
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skylar says:
Wit,
the point is to find out.
the point is wanting to know.
the point is that this personality disorder is pervasive and it’s not going to go away if we run and hide.
They are everywhere, from your kid to your spouse, your boss, the congressman, the grocery checkout clerk. They’re going to keep popping up and figuring out how to handle the one in your home will give you the power to deal with the ones you run into in the wild.
In my case, you could say, “go NC”, but he is never really going to go away. He will spend years plotting his revenge, it’s what he does.
In your case you have between 2 -14 months in which you need to survive with this in your home. You can consider it a prison sentence or you can look at it as an opportunity to learn.
I’m not discounting your feelings and sadness about your situation. I have that too. But they aren’t doing me any good anymore. So I try to turn it off and turn on my intellectual curiosity to help me deal with it.
No guarantees it will work, but i will learn something either way.
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skylar says:
Wit,
I just saw your second post.
I use grey rock too when it’s called for.
He will get emotion when I choose to give it to him and he will get intellectual discussion when I choose.
Now that I know what he is, he can’t bait me into a drama scene. I already know everything on the surface is fake. My hopes is that I can seed a new, more benign, story into his brain, because the one that’s growing there now is full of hatred and rage and vengance. It’s dangerous to walk away and let it grow. Remember, he put 25 years into a plan to make me commit suicide and keep my house. He involved many neighbors in the scheme and probably feels that they are laughing at him. When it comes to him, I am cold and calculating – just like he is.
Sometimes when I’m by myself, I cry for a bit, let it out and then turn back to cold.
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OxDrover says:
Dear Skylar,
No it is not going to go away if we run and hide, but we are NOT going to change it, not going to truly understand it.
By interacting with them in anyway ANY way, you are doing the same thing you would be if you were playing with a RATTLE SNAKE and trying to udnerstand why it was the way it was, how to manage it so you didn’t get bitten, understand WHY it bites…..
Learn from other’s experience and save yourself some poison bites and go NO CONTACT with these people. By trying to stay ini the lives of these people and trying to “out smart them at their own game” you are perpetuating the pain in YOUR LIFE.
Arguing or interacting with a psychopath is like trying to teach a pig to sing, it frustrates you and pithes off the pig!
As long as you continue to try to “figure out” a way to “know” and “figuring out how to handle one in your home” is FUTILE, the only way to handle one is to stay as far away as possible.
Wit is sort of trapped until hers leaves because he is a minor, but anyone else who has one in their home and lets it stay is ASKING FOR TROUBLE.
Wake up Sky, and smell the coffee—it is like pithing in the wind, it will come back and hit you in the face!
Remember “Intellectual curosity killed the cat”
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henry says:
Thank you all for listening to my ramblings about some the bizzare episodes involving the X. The barn and condoms thing, the scar. These little quirky things he did that just kinda hang in my memory. It has been theraputic to discuss them. Only here I am not looked at as crazy or judged for the things I say or did…Big HUG to all
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skylar says:
Henry,
sheesh! that’s no more bizarre than the crazy stuff that’s happened to ALL of us. We love hearing your stories.
Oxy,
being here on LF and reading books has helped me to “get” him so much better. None of this info came from NC, it came from contact with P’s. I was able to “stare him down” when he said he wanted money for my house. First it was $70thous, then $30, then 10 plus the RV, now he says I can have everything because he is giving it to me out of the goodness of his heart.
Without the information I’ve learned, I would’ve been freaking out from the first threat. I just ignored him and he dropped the subject.
For the first time in years my interaction with the P is without drama. I don’t react to the drama, so he dropped it. He tries the pity ploy still, but I just follow it up with, “yes, it is hard being a sociopath, you need to learn a different way to live.”
It’s very upsetting to him that often I’ll point out certain behaviors to him, “see? you’re doing that because you’re a sociopath, you’re being predictable. All sociopaths do that.”
He got mad and said, “you say that about everything I do, I’m scratching my kneecap, is that because I’m a sociopath?”
See, he’s getting confused. He doesn’t want to be predictable.
LOL.
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witsend says:
skylar,
I think you and I have that constant drive to understand people, places, and things. I know for me understanding something (at least to the best of my ability) is key to my acceptance.
I lived with alcoholics for a good part of my life before I finally “got it”. (again, to the best of my ability)
But once I wrap my brain around the fact that an apple isn’t an orange….Then I got to accept that. I can’t make applesauce out of an orange. Nor can I make orange juice from an apple.
Being subject to having a personality disordered person in our lives changes us. It is one of those life altering experiences. We might never think the same way about things again.
The thing I fear in your plan with your Ex is that you have everything to loose and nothing to gain.
HE IS cold and calculating. He’s not playing a role…Thats what he is. He spent 25 years of his life trying to “do you in”.
Poison you….give you reason to take your own life. That is SERIOUS stuff.
You are now taking on a role to try and sow seeds and try and create him a new “story”.
By your own admission you are trying to set aside your emotions and BE COLD and calculating just like him. In order to deal with him. Why subject yourself to try to be like him on any level now?
Remember that it TOOK 25 years to escalate to the man you knew when you left. The thing is by hanging in there now it will continue to escalate. He doesn’t HAVE to wear the mask with you. He is aware that you know what he is. I think that makes him more dangerous, not less. It is not like an S/P/N makes themselves more vulnerable by loosing the mask. And in HIS DISORDERED thinking I’m sure he feels more powerful.
Think about it. If you are thinking he is less powerful because you have disclosed to him that you KNOW what he is. That means he thinks the opposite. He is feeling more powerful.
Why risk this? What is the best case senerio of this? Now think about the worst case senerio.
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Rosa says:
Personally, I do NOT view going No Contact as “running & hiding”.
That implies weakness, and I disagree with the notion that going No Contact is a sign of weakness.
On the contrary, I believe going No Contact is actually taking back one’s own POWER, and moving forward in life with a healthy mind/spirit.
Once you break free from a sociopath, you are now open to healthy, productive, & functioning relationships.
You can now reach your full potential, which is actually one of the most POWERFUL things you can do for yourself.
No Contact is also very POWERFUL, because it reduces the psychopath’s sphere of influence. One less person for them to manipulate and lie to.
When there is no one left to buy into the psychopath’s agenda, how can they do anything? Their supply and resources have been depleted.
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henry says:
Rosa – No contact is our only weapon and our ultimate salvation.
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Rosa says:
Henry:
High Five!
Isn’t that why we advise No Contact all over this website???
P.S. Have you had breakfast? I’ve got donut holes (I quit eating donuts).
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Isabell says:
Witsend wrote:
“If you are thinking he is less powerful because you have disclosed to him that you KNOW what he is. That means he thinks the opposite. He is feeling more powerful.”
It is my belief when they know we see through their mask, they become even more dangerous because we are now the greates threat to their survival. They must do whatever it takes, and by any means, to render our awareness meaningless. This could be through discrediting our character, keeping us in a state of confusion and panic so that we have NO energy to expose them, and even if we did, our own circumstances in trying to cope with them would make us appear unstable, while they woo the masses, who would believe?
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Isabell says:
henry wrote:
“No contact is our only weapon and our ultimate salvation. ”
AMEN!!!!!!! It’s hard to understand, at firs, and maybe even for along while.
While I didn’t have contact directly with my ex, his family (who pretended to be on my side) was all up in my business, keeping the drama circulating. The whole family thrives on this. Now, that I’ve been NC with them for a year, this month. The view (clarity) is breathtaking.
In stead of spending all my energy trying to find my footing and stabalize my equalibrium after each encounter with him, or his family, my emotional thinking has been cleared, and my energy is more efficient in recognizing, and gathering “DETAILS” (concrete evidence) that will ultimately protect me, and the kids. When I was caught up in his smoke screens, I couldn’t see my way out of a paper bag.
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amber says:
Morning all!
Ox….”By trying to stay ini the lives of these people and trying to “out smart them at their own game” you are perpetuating the pain in YOUR LIFE.”
I couldn’t agree with this more. I found myself emersed in trying to figure every little detail out before they happened to see if he was going to lie to me about it. It was making me crazy. I was ALWAYS trying to stay “one step ahead.”
And for the most part?!!? I was ALWAYS right. And most of the time I didn’t like what I found. It was like I was testing him to see if he would tell me the truth.
One time I followed him home after we got in a huge fight because I wanted to see if he was actually going home or somewhere else. The next day we agreed to sit and discuss the night before and he came up with this huge story about how he got pulled over by a cop for speeding…”started the conversation by saying…”you know, I almost got a DUI because of YOU last night!!!!” I was shocked becuase I followed his ass home…UHHHHH not even close!!! He even went into detail about the converstation he had with the police officer. And the reason he got pulled over was because he was SO UPSET WITH ME that he was driving too fast..blah blah blah….but he explained to the police officer that he had just had a agrument with his girlfriend…I mean it just didn’t stop. And I let him go. And I sat there thinking..this fucker had NO IDEA I was following him. The entire story was a LIE! And the worst part was, I couldn’t call him on it because he would have FLIPPED that I followed him. He would have made me feel like the crazy one. So I sat there and bit my tounge. To this day I wish I would have called him on it.
I couldn’t take much more of knowing what I knew and letting him get away with it. I never stood up for myself when I found him lying because that meant that I was doing my “detective work” and he would have made me feel crazy for going to the lengths that I did to find out what I knew. I admit sometimes I did feel crazy for having to do what I did. My friends would tell me, “Amber this is not normal!!” I still find myself wanting to check where he’s going to be, but I know it will only make me feel worse. So YES….NC has been my salvation. It gives me the power back.
And henry, I love hearing the stoires because it makes me feel better that I wasn’t the only one living this crazy existence. And being able to share my stories is very cathartic. So keep the stories coming!!
Hugs to everyone!! Thanks for ALLL of your stories.
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OxDrover says:
Skylar, as long as you are talking OR listening to him, HE IS WINNING. I can’t say it more clearly than that.
As long as you are “playing the game”—YOU lose. The ONLY way, and I think everyone here has said the same thing, is NO CONTACT. It is taking YOUR power back. If you disagree with me (us) you are welcome to go on talking to and listening to him and think you are “scoring points” and making him “see” the consequences of his actions—the probl;em is, that even for them A LOSS is never their fault, and even my P son, sitting in prison doesn’t see that HE put himself there and that he is just another among millions of lousy convicts and criminals–he feels because he puts one over on a guard he is a WINNER. DUH????? Some winner. But I guess everyone has to think something positive about themselves.
I’m not going to change my mind about NC, and most folks who heal from this association with them eventually see the same perspective I do, so I think we probably ought to end this conversation here. I am not going to persuade you that NC is the ONLY way. Which I believe it is. We make our own choices and that one was successful for me so I will stick to it.
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persephone7 says:
Skylar:
I agree with Witsend, Oxy and the rest – you come across as a very sharp woman but it just seems like you’re stalemating your own progress and chances at a real new life by even still talking to him. And I think you’re playing with fire by taunting him in your own way with your appraisal of what and who he is – they’re like the ultimate addiction and puzzle that can’t be solved. I hope you’ll just give it up and get yourself away!!
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style1 says:
I agree no communication.. they just play you.. I have these insights that I think about sharing but.. months ago when I did this.. he never was self-relfective.. he just slammed me to try and make me feel that I am at fault. Communication brings you down and back ito the place of trying to make them hear you, listen, change .. to try and get some satisfaction and it won’t happen.. If it could’ve happened.. it would’ve already and you wouldn’t be where you are now. There is no satisfaction to be had.. but going on with your life.
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skylar says:
Everyone, I don’t disagree with you. I agree that NC is the best solution. I would never recommend to anyone that they have contact with a P.
My only contact with him is the occasional seed planting, then I drop out of his contact zone for a while.
The danger to me is less while I have him befuddled. He is completely confused by the change in my personality, I’m happy and unflappable now. He even said that he wants to know who this “guru” is that I’m seeing and he said I’m bi-polar. He is desperately trying to figure out my personality but I keep changing it. He can’t keep up, so he can’t make any plans.
The reason I’m telling him exactly what he is, is because I’m not very good at lying. So instead I’m confusing him with selective truths. There is another aspect of the psychopath that I’ve learned: they are very introspective. If you read the quote by Yukio Mishima which I posted on a different thread, you can read what I mean. They are very aware that they are different but they can’t figure out why (their narcissism blocks the view). I’m using his own interest in himself and what makes him tick, to throw him off my trail. I’m giving him something else to think about when he thinks about hurting me.
This is working for me because, my relationshit with my P was a bit different in that even though he hated me, he relied on me for information about everything because I read a lot and he can barely read at all. he knows that I research things, and he knows that I don’t lie. So I’m just pulling on a string from our past to create this new line.
Eventually I will sell the house and move away and then NC will be permanent. Until then, I must show no fear.
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Matt says:
skylar:
So exactly is it you gain by telling him that he is a sociopath? From where I’m standing you’re just giving him more information that can and will be used against you. As Robert Hare says, traditional therapy is wasted on these creatures since it only helps them hone their skills. You tell him he’s a sociopath, he will probably find his way to some site or whatever and learn even more ways to drive you insane.
As for your need to “educate” yourself, I think rather than studying these creaures in the wild, you would be far better advised to read “Without Conscience”, “The Sociopath Next Door”, etc where experts, who have not been personally enmeshed with these subhumans, have done a very good job of laying out for you, in their books, whatever you need to know for your education on sociopaths.
You say you want him gone. Everytime you intereact with him you are doing exactly the opposite of that. YOu say he is steadily dropping his financial demands on you. IMHO if you simply stopped interacting with him he will realize that there is nothing more to be got from you and move on. Everytime you deal with him you are sending him the opposite message — at least from where I’m standing.
Go dark. Stop talking to him. Let him move on. And then you can move yourself out of your mother’s house and back into your house. Your science experiements are getting in the way of your recovery. And your recovery should be more important to you than any “knowledge” you are gaining by pushing his buttons tha the knowledge which is already well-spelled out in books.
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justabouthealed says:
Agree Matt. Any interaction also feeds our own addiction to drama. Not saying everyone has an addiction to drama, but if you’ve been involved with a P/S/N, you’ve had DRAMA…..and at first the peace and quiet can feel unsettling.
I personally strive to be as drama free as possible now. A woman was baiting me in a work email today, and I just let it go. No drama!
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skylar says:
Matt, thanks for being concerned. I’m not saying there isn’t any danger, I’m only saying it is equal to or less than NC.
He knows I know and he knows I’ve told others, including his friends what he is. Therefore, he knows that it’s in his best interest that I stay VERY HEALTHY. He knows that if I turn up dead, EVERYONE will say: oh, P did it. She said P was trying to kill her and he did!
So that’s one benefit. But the way I present it, also makes him think that his sociopathy is showing and it’s blatently obvious to anyone who is educated in the field. I do this by calling him on every nuance and telling him that ALL sociopaths do exactly what he just did. LOL.
But it’s not a lie, it’s true! Only it’s making him so insecure that he’s going out of his way to be super nice. He doesn’t rage anymore. and the other day, my diamond ring, (which I got from my childhood sweetheart) fell off my finger and into his car (I’ve lost so much weight). He found it and called me to tell me he would leave it at the house. And he did.
Finally, I’m not worried that I’m turning him into a super-sociopath by informing him. He is already a super-sociopath, he is subtle and he’s a master sabateur. (not to mention the poisoning) But, sociopaths can never be more than what they are. He will always be a 3 trick pony: charm, pity and rage. Everything about him is infantile despite his superior mechanical abilities.
I tell him that I expect him to sabotage my car and house, so therefore he doesn’t do it, because he’s trying to prove me wrong. There’s nothing more important to them than their veneer – he desperately needs me to believe in him again. It’s the classic reverse psychology. So far it’s working.
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style1 says:
I went through a phase where I thought that I could play him..but I didn’t and couldn’t.. I am not like him.. I am too real.. and trying to ‘play’ him only kept him in my life longer..
it doesn’t work for real people… They are too ahead of you because they don’t have real feelings and don’t care.. I keep foretting that.. the love love love that they talk about is just talk..
where real people actually do feel.. and so they hurt and it takes time to get over..
they just going on manipulating…
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Stargazer says:
Skylar,
What was your ring doing in his car? It’s really hard for me to understand your motive in staying in contact with him. Are you afraid that if you go NC, he will try to kill you? Or are you trying to beat him at his own game to have some sort of power over him?
Either way, you keep yourself stuck as long as you are in contact with him like this. You will not be able to heal. It’s a form of denial to think that you can somehow “win” over a sociopath. He still wins because he sucks your time and energy. I repeat, you are not healing as long as you are playing this game with him. And as long as you are not on the healing path, I don’t know how much help we can give you. Healing starts with NC. There are no loopholes or exceptions to this I’m afraid. There is nothing “special” about your sociopath that makes him okay to hang out with. Sorry to be tough on you, but I’m really questioning your choices here.
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Rosa says:
In my opinion, if you can “plant seeds”, do reverse psychology, and play various mind games with someone, you are either NOT dealing with a psychopath, or you are delusional.
Furthermore, psychopaths are NOT introspective.
In fact, they are the polar opposite.
That is one of the reasons why therapy does not work with them.
Matt, I am glad you brought up Robert Hare.
Page 195 of “Without Conscience” states,
“PSYCHOPATHS DON’T FEEL THEY HAVE PSYCHOLOGICAL OR EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS, AND THEY SEE NO REASON TO CHANGE THEIR BEHAVIOR TO CONFORM TO SOCIETAL STANDARDS WITH WHICH THEY DO NOT AGREE.”
“To elaborate, psychopaths are generally well satisfied with themselves and with their inner landscape, bleak as it may seem to outside observers. They see nothing wrong with themselves, experience little personal distress, and find their behavior rational, rewarding, and satisfying; they never look back with regret or forward with concern.”
“They perceive themselves as superior beings in a hostile, dog-eat-dog world in which others are competitors for power and resources.”
“Psychopaths are not ‘fragile’ individuals. What they think and do are extensions of a rock-solid personality structure that is extremely resistant to outside influence. By the time they enter a formal treatment program their attitudes and behavioral patterns have become well-entrenched, difficult to budge even under the best circumstances.”
This theory that psychopaths can be “played”, manipulated, or changed in any way is reckless and dangerous, in my opinion.
People may be reading this website searching for help in dealing with a dangerous psychopath in their life.
I really believe that we should try to be as accurate & responsible as possible with the information we put out there.
Sorry, I have worked myself into a lather.
But, the psychopaths I have encountered in my life are NOTHING TO PLAY WITH.
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style1 says:
Rosa,
I agree with you. I tried to get mine to a psychologist and he yelled that they don’t work. I tried to one up him and you can’t.. they are so detached that they match you then you feel further trauma.. mine love, love love, I will love you forever. You came out of my dream. You are the woman that I have been searching for my whole life.. turned out to be the coldest man that I have ever seen. He cuts his emotions (contrived) emotions as fast as he jumps in.. A normal person is left to deal with the feelings..
I tried to interact and one up .. and I regretted it everytime.. Now, I learned NO CONTACT… All he wants to do now, is to make me feel confused, blame me and to undermine my self-confidence. He is not someone that I want to interact with ever..and he never thought about the future in any real sense. He lives in the moment of his delusions and in his head. And was after me three months after his wife died.. that he couldn’t afford to divorce.. he is asking me to marry him.. He is cold as ice, out for himself and that is what your is also… DON’T PLAY GAMES, TRY TO BEAT THEM or WIN. The winning is NC. If you contact, they know that they are still on your mind.. and that feeds them..
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Stargazer says:
You know, my ex, the psychopath, that I only dated for a few months, was NEVER angry or violent with me. He never smeared or devalued me as most have. Even so, when I found out how crazy he was and what a seamless pathological liar he was, I became terrified of him. Even after he was out of my life, I tried to start a discussion about psychopaths on my reptile site (where he was a member). I got so scared I ended up having nightmares about him raping and killing me. I had to ask a moderator to remove the thread.
I cannot stress enough how very dangerous these creatures are. Having no empathy and no moral conscience makes a person very unpredictable and dangerous.
I agree with the above post. Either he’s not a socipath, or you are delusional (skylar). Also, if he is, in fact, a sociopath, any normal people would not want anything to do with him (or you by proxy). You will be pulled into his world with little if any external support.
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skylar says:
Star,
I saw him and I sat in the door frame of his car to make him talk to me. He was really nervous and wanted to leave. My ring slipped off.
He can’t hurt me emotionally anymore because I know what he is.
My point is to keep him off balance by showing him that he doesn’t know what I am.
When I’m sad, Star, its for the same reasons as you, it’s not about him so much as it is about the parental abuse and the loss of my core because of it.
I’m lost at sea with no direction.
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Isabell says:
Aloha…
I KNOW that I don’t have answers for you. What I want you to KNOW is that a period of feeling hopeless is probably normal. I too feel HOPEless. And, I’ve been DIAGNOSED as hopelessly optomistic. In the big picture…there is always meaning for me. But…I know my optomism is a way of avoiding the devistating hurt. So now, I’m in a period of sceptical synisism. A kind of “Yeah? Whateverism.”
Mostly, Aloha…
I wanted you to know, you are not alone in feeling the way that you do.
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geminigirl says:
Skylar, dont dance with the devil, he always wins.
If you lay down with dogs, expect to come up with fleas.
If you play with fire, you will [not may} get burnt.
Love, gem.XX
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geminigirl says:
SKYLAR NC NC NC!!! Its the only way! DO NOT ENGAGE WITH HIM! You are on a hiding to no-where . he will only set you back, and contribute NOTHING to your healing process. What are you trying to prove? these creatures are like aliens, you will NEVER understand him!
No wonder you feel lost at sea with no direction.He will never ever give you validation or direction.
Unless you are a sado masichist, I dont get what your trying to prove. There is no closure with these freaks,you will never win!NC NC NC!!! Love, and Hugs, Gem.XXX
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henry says:
this is beat up skylar nite – took me awhile to get to that place – no contact mean’s for fuckin ever – its called End the Dance – they have no limits and will dance you into your grave. I will never forget the look on his face when i slammed the door on his face – twice – he looked defeated – he looked confused – he could not believe i had had enuff – seeing him drive away was the hardest thing i ever did – i had no choice – had I let him back in I would not be here now – i went no contact and cried for a fuckin year – I am proud of me – that is like the only way to make them flinch – sting their twisted egos – words dont work – words feed them – when they cant dance that dance with us it deflates them and makes them know that one more time they have been seen as what they are and what they, no contact is our Weapon – understand that to engage them in anyway is self defeating. A true sociopath will love you into your grave or into the nut house..
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geminigirl says:
Skylar, We are NOT beating you up, we are trying to help you. NC IS the only way forward. They have no shame, no consciense, no pity, no empathy,no kindness, no guilt,they are not human as we understand human to be. Think of poor Lily, 42 years with a sociopath who verbally emotionally and physically beat her up, now all her adult kids, plus her sisters and one brother are all Ps. Do they care that shes just had major surgery, and is still very weak? They dont care.
You say hes not hurting you emotionally any more but your hurting yourself emotionally by continuing to engage with him. Ps dont care if you give them love or hate its all energy for them to feed off. You need that precious energy to get well. They are vampires, they steal our souls. Love, and {{HUGS}}} Gem.XXX
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Kathleen Hawk says:
There was a point in my healing process — well, actually a bunch of points — when I started to name my ex, face him down with evidence of his various failures, set up fairly elaborate legal mechanisms to protect myself, warn him of the results of certain behaviors, and prepare to execute some really damaging retributions to him (and probably me too), if I found it necessary. It was the same period that I was imagining delightful revenge scenarios, and ways to make public what a shallow and self-serving piece of s**t he is.
Most of this occured in my head, or in letters to him (mostly unsent), or here on LoveFraud. Though I did take a few steps to make sure that if anything happened to me, my “insurance policy” would send the police immediately to his door with evidence about his motive. And I let him know about it.
In other words, I was not exactly the poster child for going NC — either in my mind or in reality. My entire process of healing, until close to the end, went on in a written dialogue with him. A small fraction of those letters were sent, but some of them were. The conversation trickled off — in my mind as well as reality — later in the recovery when I got more involved in creatively changing myself, rather than being so involved with him or other abusers in my past.
I’m not suggesting that anyone else follow this aspect of my healing model. I frankly think I would have recovered my life faster, if I could have focused earlier on what I might change in myself, rather than him. But the truth is, that wasn’t possible. My family of origin had left me with such a warped sense of the world and myself that I really needed to “use” him as tool for understanding my vulnerabilities, my denial, and the way I effectively volunteered for abuse in my life.
And part of my process of getting better, growing up into personal power and learning to defend myself, was a period of proving to myself that, if necessary, I could be as big a sociopath as he was.
I’ve written here before about how I needed to “turn on the lights” in parts of my brain that were essentially dark as a result of my upbringing. I spent my whole life living defensively and reactively (though I would have denied it, because I thought I was assertive and even aggressive). I was terrified about whether people liked me, whether I had the skills to take care of myself and survive, whether I was a “good” person.
In stepping up to being a sociopath for my own benefit, to compete and fight with cold-hearted commitment to myself and no empathy at all, and being willing to be harmed or even die if necessary to keep from being a victim again, I was releasing something in myself that was natural and real. It had been beaten down and locked away in my personality by the violence of my upbringing. And when it finally emerged, it was raw and childish. It was one of those aspects of my personality that needed to grow up, and I regard all this posturing and playing at being a bigger sociopath than him as the adolescent stages of experiencing this power.
Later, this aspect smoothed out and matured, became integrated with the rest of my personality. Now I’m better at moving easily between self-interested thinking and empathetic thinking, even in the course of seconds, as situations require.
But I was fortunate that while I was doing all this experimentation with being tougher, colder, smarter and stronger than him, he was far away. Had he been closer, he would have undoubtedly figured out a way to traumatize me again (or worse), because it would have been in his best interest to do that. And the real truth of this stage in my healing was that I was only learning how to defend myself, not harm him. But he would have interpreted it as harm, and he would have had no qualms about doing whatever it took to neutralize me.
The thing about playing with sociopaths is that we always lose. Because that’s the only game they play — win or lose. We may be able to control our losses. But I think even ErinB with all her legal triumphs would agree that it costs time, money, and most of all, a lot of mental and emotional energy to deal with them. And that the ultimate good comes from getting them entirely out of our lives, and developing the mental and emotional capacity to recognize them and avoid them in the future. And if we get fooled for a while, to act swiftly and ruthlessly to extricate ourselves and not look back.
There is a tremendous amount of information on LoveFraud on how to do that. One of my favorite techniques that has been mentioned recently is the “gray rock” strategy. And possibly there is also some benefit is being more aggressive — in the dolphin’s tit-for-tat strategy — under certain circumstances. Just to let them know we’re not food.
But the ultimate goal is always no involvement. We want them out of our lives and out of our heads. In this we become like the sociopaths — no sympathy, no remorse, making them unimportant, because they are not what we want our lives to be about.
So this post is for you, Skylar. And for others of us who keep thinking that maintaining voluntary contact with them can come to some good end. Some of us have no choice because of child custody situations, but if we have a choice, banishing them is a crucial part of our getting well. Not just to stop the ongoing damage, but to learn one of the most important lessons of these relationships.
We have a choice. In a larger sense of imagining what we want our lives to be about, and moment by moment. We have a choice of what we allow into our lives. What we think about. How we let people affect us. We are entitled to take care of ourselves, and create the lives we want.
And maybe for some of us, like me, that involves a period a getting in the sociopath’s faces. So we can prove to ourselves that we can do it. But ultimately we need to move on to working on ourselves, learning why we fooled around with these dangerous users in the first place, and healing those old traumas. Understanding the causes of our own dysfunction is where the real recovery occurs, and where we really learn to love and care for ourselves. It’s where things start getting good for us, where self-protecting just becomes a skill we can call on when necessary. But not nearly as important as the ability to envision, plan and follow through on creating a life we love.
Kathy
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OxDrover says:
Dear Skylar,
I said I wasn’t going to discuss this again, but I will one more time.
Sugar, you having contact with him so you can “keep him off balance” (or any other reason) is like someone going to AA and telling everyone at AA that they are having a drink every night so they can prove that they can “control” themselves.
That “excuse” for having the drink is about as valid as yours. Hun, we are not “beating up on” you, we are trying to “pound some reality into your head”—
Ps are an ADDICTION, and by refusing to stop contact with him, you are feeding YOUR ADDICTION. I’m not sure what you are trying to prove, but the point is that everytime you have contact with him YOU GET A “HIGH” out of it, more drama. You get to interact with this creature you KNOW is a fake and you get the DRAMA.
Until You recognize that YOU have a proble (and yes, HE IS THE PROBLEM) and stop contact, it will be impossible to hea.
At first you will MISS all that drama and adrenaline high, and that is essentially what it is. The addiction to the drama and you get a “high” just like you had taken a “hit” off of your preferred substance of abuse.
The thing is, this kind of high is cheap (you don’t have to pay cash for it) and no one is going to arrest you for it! How ever, the REAL PRICE is that you PAY WITH YOUR LIFE. Your happiness, your peace, your independence, and your sanity.
Every one of us here has has the same problem, finally deciding to go NC. Except for those few souls who would LOVE to go totally NC but have children they must share with the P. I thought there was NO way I could go NC with my son, or with my egg donor, and when I kicked my P now-x BF to the curb I felt like I was ripping my heart out. Each time NC is broken, it sets you back, believe that or not. ((((hugs)))) and my prayers for you, Sky, I can tell you are a smart woman, and a strong one, you are just using your smarts and strength to keep yourself in the hole of pain.
I had to cut them loose (including my egg donor) and dig down to that childhood pain. It is scary but in the end, it sets you free to be YOU!
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witsend says:
skylar,
It occured to me that when you left your Xp you went to stay at your parents house. You left the arms of your XP and went right into the arms of your P family of origin.
For most of us when we are healing from a toxic realtionship, it generally leads back to childhood issues. As the healing process progresses usually we want to understand why we ended up in a toxic relationship. When faced with our chilhood pain this can be a much more complex healing journey than the one we began with.
Skylar it is understandable that you are in a very bad situation. And you went from the “fog” of living with the X P right into the hands of the crazymaking with your P family…..I would think that this has opened up many, many old wounds. You were thrown right into the mix all over again. The old “dance” of family dynamics.
Childhood pain once we come face to face with it isn’t something you can detour and go under, over or around it. Once it surfaces you have to FEEL it all over again and go head to head with it. Avoiding it doesn’t make it go away.
It is very difficult to heal from any of this while still living in the midst of it all. But playing with fire isn’t the answer.
You are a VERY well read person. You are a very intelligent woman. You are a strong woman. But it seems like you are looking for answers in all the wrong places. If your X is a sociopath then it is what it is. All the optomism in the world isn’t going to change that. YOU are not going to change that.
I agree with stargazer.
You said:
He can’t hurt me emotionally anymore because I know what he is.
My point is to keep him off balance by showing him that he doesn’t know what I am.
Do you think he cares what you are? Or that your personality has changed? Or that your keeping him off balance by telling him he is a sociopath and he is predictable?
That is delusional thinking. Everyone has to find their own path and muddle through this.
It is only because we care about you that we are saying our thoughts.
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Isabell says:
Skylar…
Comere.
Sit with me for a little bit.
Honey, I have a few things I want to share with you.
First, I love your energy. I also love your CREATIVE mind. And, lately… I get the survival skill you’ve implemented. I even understand the logic behind it.
Been there, done that!!!!
What you cannot see, yet, is that he’s playing you with equal, and more likely, greater hightened awareness. He is calculating, subversive, intentionally avoident, and out of characteristically normal behavior for himself. You believe his uncaracteristic behavior is a sign that you’ve been able to dupe him. THIS is exactly what HE wants YOU to believe. WHATCH OUT!!!
Radical changes DON’T happen with these types…he has outsmarted you in your little psychological game, and is giving you what you desire, while he digs deeper into your psyche.
Ok.. ok, I know. You have a handle on this. And, from the outward appearences, I’m sure you think you do. And, for a limited time, he will let you think you do, as well.
Here’s where hard truth comes into play. WE can never throw them off their game. THEY adapt, rather quickly, brilliantly, to our attempt at the appearence of “shape shifting.” What you are witnessing as shock and awe, is mearly another smoke screen. He’s plotting, planning, constructing the most deviant plan. He HAS to. Do you know why? Because you broadcasted and exposed his hand. So now, he will go covert, stealth, ambient, and ever more distructive.
My ex used to say, “…I can wait as long as it takes for you to have enough rope to hang yourself. And, nobody will ever suspect me.”
And, he was right. The only flaw in his plan is that I keep everything. I copy everything that I sign and submit to the schools. I keep an absolute accurate accounting of my own expenses, and expenses related to the kids. Though sometimes tempted, I do not allow myself to act in any way that might appear deceiptful (though I don’t announce everything, the way I once did.) His undoing will be in the documenation, and paper trail that he’s left behind. His arrogant belief that the law does not apply to him, and therefore ignored court stipulations and minute orders (which I have said NOTHING to him about. I’ll show the judge, and let the N/S/P be caught without answers. I’ve conducted myself to the letter of the law, making sure I have witnesses, as well as sending certain necessary coorespondence cc’ed to his parents, as well as his lawyer, as he insists he “never received” necessary notifications re: the kids. The NC forced him into his fantasy world. He was convincing enough in his argument that his lawyer, and the kids lawyer both sent scathing letters to my attorney requesting my admonishment. To my attrorney’s delight, he was able to respond to both attorney’s, “….you have evidence in your posession to the contrary of the allegations against my client. In fact, I submit to you that YOUR client had already been in contact with each school, and had signed required emergency contact forms, prior to his claim that he’s been kept in the dark about the where his children are attending school. I am submitting for your review, copies of said emergency cards. Please note that his information on the emergency cards was filled out by my client. If she had instructed the school that he is NOT allowed to access to his children, as he claims, why would she fill out his contact information on the cards? Gentelmen, it appears you’ve been duped.”
When I stopped playing “his” game, and went absolutely NC,
things did escalate. His trickery (which in the Bible means witchcraft) became MORE obvious because he increased his efforts to force me into contact with him. Hang on, buckle your seat belt, and weld the communication/contact portal to you, shut!
On this note: I do agree that letting the circle of ppl around you know what he is capable of is critical; though it isn’t a guaruntee that you will be protected. If something did happen to you, the authorities will know where to look.
They are better at the game, then we are. They have no conscience, and therefore have no limits. There is NOTHING in their psyche that will whisper…”That’s going too far.”
When I played at his game, feeding him Narcissistic Supply, believing I was keeping him off balance, worked in HIS favor; NC works in mine. Be wise.
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skylar says:
Kathleen,
you always get me. It’s amazing.
Everyone,
I really don’t mind getting beat up by you guys, I take everything to heart because I know everything is said with love and wisdom.
Kathleen said it very well. I guess I’m practicing P-control strategies. I live with a bunch of them and I seem to attract them like bees to honey. I feel the need to practice vigilence and concentration. I want to be able to maintain focus on his P nature even as he spins his “woe is me” tale.
I could go on to explain my fascinating theories
and the results of my experiments, but y’all probably don’t want to hear them anymore.
One day I will have integrated my inner-p with my ridiculously self-sacrificing, door-mat self and I won’t have a multiple personality anymore. Then I’ll probably stop attracting P’s and I’ll be able to grow up too. Thanks for your love and concern everyone. It’s a stage I have to go through.
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style1 says:
I learned early on when I was trying to out smart or one up him that it was not worth it. They are on this disconnected obervance and they are way ahead of a healthy normal person. And I don’t want to take my head there. It made me feel sick. And like Stargazer wrote.. mine was kind and manipulated with words.. and never was physical or violent but I had fears that he would kill me. I have never felt that ever before … He was trying to kill my spirit and soul and Skylar when you dance with them that is what occurs.. you do not want to try to be like them to out smart them.. Just STAY AWAY….
In the beginning of my break up with him.. Iwould talk, try to convince him of my views, etc and all it did was upset me.. Now, he did get more stupid in his remarks but I would be shaken for days after..
then it clicked in me… WHY am I trying any longer? I wanted him gone.. so now, that he is why am I still trying to communciate? It is wasting my time, slows my healing and does nothing for him but give him my energy. In a last phone call, he was telling me about a movie that he had seen. I asked that he not tell me because I wanted to see it. He proceeded to tell me. I again asked him not to and he said “I will tell you what I want you to hear.” Then he hung up and texted me that I was rude.
That clicked in me so hard and real…as to who and what this person really is. He is not kind, spiritual, or loving .. he uses that for con.. and that is why I felt like he was going to kill me.. he was trying to create me in his image and I wouldn’t let that occur.. I was too strong for him. So you be strong and DO NOT play in his sandbox. It is not worth it.. and you won’t win. There is nothing to win. Winning is getting him OUT OF YOUR LIFE.
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style1 says:
Being on this site and reading post has really helped me. Last night, I was down and not feeling well and had this feeling to call him.. but I didn’t. I took care of me.. And I wake up this morning, and feel so different.. had I contact him for some of his contrived nurturing.. either we would have gotten into an argument, he would blame me, he would manipulate or he would’ve been sweet.. whichever he did would not have benefited me in anyway..
Today.. I feel free.. and am not suffering from the connection that I might’ve had with him. He is poison. I knew it on the first date, had I been able to be honest with myself. I didn’t know what I was seeing and feeling but I wasn’t that attracted to him. I was attracted to his attraction and attention to me. Little about him was attractive, except physically he is attractive and he displays manners. So, had I not been moving and distracted.. I would’ve never continued dating a man who travels all the time, has little money, children in carying degrees of need, a dying mother and living in a big empty rental house an hour from where I live. He was driving his mother’s car that she had leased before she got ill.. The while thing was a mess! And he still is.. He just lived for a year in my world..that made him have some security for awhile .. and he made his spin and promises around me. I recall I even left my house at times, and went driving around because I couldn’t stand being with him in MYhouse. He caused me to leave MY house.. and last night in a moment of low energy and weakness.. I was thinking about calling him for comfort.. HOW TWISTED IS THAT..? Going to someone that has nothing to give to try and get something when I wanted him gone for months before he left. He left. I felt a void. A void that he made larger than any void should be because of is constant attention.. whoa! I am getting it and getting it on each level more and more…
NO CONTACT is the way to GO!
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Rosa says:
Style1:
You did NOT call!
Yes!
That is huge.
I think that is called progress, right?
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amber says:
YES STYLE!! Good for you! Honestly, sometimes I really miss my ex too. I understand that void you fill. And that void makes you anxious and uncomfortable. But I have to just keep reminding myself of HORRIBLE, ROTTEN, EVIL things he did to me, and that keeps me from wanting contact with him. I know where it will lead..it may be nice for a little while them WHAM…right back to the depths of hell with him..in his misery and lies and manipulation. I too knew my ex was poison on the first date. I remember thinking to myself then, and even using the words RED FLAGS after our first date! He wouldn’t tell me how old he was of what city he lived in..he said he didn’t want me to know too much about him!! HA!! I should have gotten up from that table right then and walked away…but instead that flipped a swith in my brain and I told myself, well if you won’t tell me I’ll figure it out for myself. I wanted to know what he was hiding. And that’s where the cycle started. He would always lie and I would always have to try and be two steps ahead of him to know any “truth.” See I knew I had good judgement then??!?! So where did it go in the process. To be honest, I think from day one I set out to fix him. Like I was going to conquer his problems to prove I loved him. BIG MISTAKE!! But you’re doing the right thing. Whenever you feel the need to contact him..COME HERE!! That’s what this place is for. I find such strength when I come here. It’s that, “oh yeah that’s why I don’t ever want to speak to him again.” So keep up the good work and stay strong. HUGS
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style1 says:
Yep last night in my not feeling well and wanting to talk to him.. and wondering in reality why would I have a need to talk to him.. it clicked even deeper that I will never talk to him again ever. There is no reason for me to EVER! I have written a whole list of what I didn’t like about him and I read this when I am doubting myself in relation to him.. then I read over the list that I liked about him and it is very short…
He just conditioned me from the very beginning to rely and to lean on him.. as in, when he was putting a new filter in my fridge.. I said let me do it.. I want to learn how.. but he just did it.. I knew that as little as that was.. he wanted me to not know.. when I changed the filter a few weeks ago without him.. as little an item as this is.. I knew that he started to try and create my dependance on him for anything that he could right from the beginning… now I know men like to do foe women.. but the feeling that I got was manipulation.. I saw what I saw.. I knew what I knew and I didn’t trust me… I waited to see what I already knew.. I know I am better off not ever talking to this man again.. and when a good memory pops in to recall the reality not the spin to bring me out of his fog…
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ErinBrock says:
Style:
GOOD GOING GIRL! You were in control of yourself and managed your emotions at the hardest time to accomplish this! That Is AWESOME!!!!
You then go on to regognize and rethink your emotions from a different ‘day after’ perspective…..which is really healthy!
And what you came up with was right on…
You have NO REASON to ever be in contact with him again…….AND if you can get through the ‘down’ times you see that you feel differently in a few hours of rest.
You knew how it would turn out if you contacted him….you KNOW this…..and you were able to work throught this for your own health and well being!
You have come so far!
Be proud of yourself and give yourself a pat on the back!!!
Good going!
XXOO
EB
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amber says:
Great idea with the list. I have a letter I wrote to myself taped to my bathroom mirror. I read it everyday. I think I might need a list too! I’m glad things have “clicked” for you. It’s weird but you just know when you’ve had enough. I think as many times as I wanted to move on before, my heart just wasn’t ready. And finally my heart has “clicked” with my head. Just keep reading your list, as I read my letter and you’ll eventually read it and say, “Whoa, what was I doing?!?!?!” And that’s a good thing. Once you’re out of the fog it’s easier to look back in retrospect and see our mistakes. Just don’t let history repeat. You have the power now.
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ErinBrock says:
When I did my list….I could only come up with 2 positives for the S…..
After 28 years…..2 positives! YIKES!
HEEELLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
I re -read the list a few days ago….and one of the positives I now Know was a FRONT….coaching!
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amber says:
I had an epiphany the other day…I realized that I only have good people in my life. And that’s the truth. My sister is AMAZING! My family is great. (Of course there are some whackos, but for the most part good people) And my friends are unbelievable. And I realized that he was the ONLY person in my life that was such a negative aspect. And it was this AH HA moment..where I realized that nothing good or positive came from him, so what was I doing allowing him to be a part of my life for so long?!?!?! I don’t want bad people in my life. That’s not what I want to be associated with. I’m not even going to write a list for the good, cuz there isn’t one. I’m going to write his list and post it next to my letter on the bathroom mirror and remind me of what I never want in a man.. EVER AGAIN!!
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