He Will Call It Love. (May contain triggers.)
I am often asked how I managed to get out of that place of darkness to live with such light and joy in my heart today. The answer is fairly simple — I chose to. The reality is much more complex. The following piece describes where I got to in that journey. It is an excerpt from my book, The Dandelion Spirit. I originally wrote it on a forum I belonged to about a year after he was arrested. It was my ‘explanation’ of what happened to me in that relationship.
There is a warning with this post — it may trigger you. If it does, breathe — and know, when a trigger explodes in your mind, it is your opportunity to embrace it, walk into it, accept it and heal it. Only you can make that choice. Triggers exist in our mind. The past is no longer. It is gone. The memories are what are hurting us. And when we pull the trigger and let the bullet of memory pierce us, we give ourselves the grace of being free. Nameste
He told her it was ‘love at first sight’. Destiny. Fate. He asked her to marry him on the first date – has anyone ever loved you so completely? Has anyone ever swept you off your feet with such passion? Such fervour? She told him she was not ready. He pursued.
He wanted sex within the first week or two of meeting and showered her with gifts, flowers, champagne, to prove he truly, madly deeply loved her and only her. When she told him it was too soon for physical intimacy, that she needed to ‘go slowly’ he respected her wishes. But, then he arranged a ‘special’ weekend away at an exotic location to surprise her. How could she refuse him?
And on that first time together, he became short of breath, his skin started to flake from lack of oxygen. He had a heart-attack. The ambulance came. She was whisked away, and though his business partners kept her informed of his health, she never knew where he was, or what was truly happening. When next she saw him, he sadly told her of his rare heart condition. Being ‘a man’s man’ he could not fathom living with someone else’s heart beating in his body. He must undergo experimental surgery, but only once his heart has deteriorated to a point that it was feasible — 1 month, 2 months at the outside 3.
He gave her a new cell phone so that she did not need to worry about the expense. He constantly reminded her that though she was successful in her own right, all that she had accomplished to create her beautiful life was nothing compared to what he would make possible. He told her that no one would ever want for her what he could give her, for what he was going to give her were her dreams come true. The dreams she had whispered to him while lying safely in his arms, the world far away and silent. He held her and told her of his love. He laughed and teased her, told her with fervent kisses of his dreams for ‘them’, for their happily ever after.
And she slid into his arms.
Everything circled around his desires and wants—he was dying, he was weak. He could not be ‘excited’. But even in his ‘ill health’, he was only concerned about her well-being. He told her he was setting up trust funds, changing over his insurance policies, investing in her business, investing in other businesses to create a life for her greater than any she could ever imagine – or ask for or wanted. She only wanted him to live.
As his health failed, he would confess that he was part of an organized family. One of the ‘upper echelon’. She didn’t understand. She didn’t believe those things really existed. He told her that was what made her so beautiful. Her innocence. Her belief in goodness.
“You do not believe in evil,” he said, stroking her hair where he held her head against his chest. “You have not seen what I have seen.”
What did the past matter, she wondered. He was dying. Now was all they had to share.
As a parting gift, he wanted to give her the story of his life – “It will be such a story,” he said. “Your fame as a writer will be assured.” It will be called, ‘A New Don Rising’ for he was changing the old guard, he was ridding the ‘family’ of its unethical, illegal businesses. He was honourable, righteous. He did not want to be remembered for the destruction he had created, but for the lives he had saved through his ‘good works’. She was his inspiration, his reason for hanging on to see that what he started was completed, and that she never need for anything again. That she and her daughters were safe from harm.
He had secret friends, and many, many enemies. He will toy with her by telling her that his enemies were willing to harm her and her children to get at him. He told her evil men had sent him three bullets. Pictures of a young girl being violated — she looks like your eldest daughter, he said. These evil men were threatening to kidnap her daughter, drug her and put her in the sex trade unless she remained silent. He promised he would never let harm come to her and them, but she must do what he says and be silent. Only silence will keep her children safe. She will never see these evil men, but he will tearfully tell her of the threats he has received against her and her children.
He will triangulate his relationship with her and with other people. He will tell her who is ‘plotting’ against her. He will tell her who is working with the police to build their case against him and using her and her love for her children as the wedge to destroy him. He will tell her that she is being investigated by child services, that he has men following her to keep her safe and the police have people following her to spy on him and the bad men have people following her to get at him. Wherever she goes there are people following her, taking pictures, watching. And she knows they are there, because sometimes she sees them. Sometimes she is shown pictures. Sometimes, he comments on what she was wearing that day, even when he has told her he wasn’t there. She never knows when someone will be watching. Or not. She never knows.
He will appear emotionally hurt at what he tells her others are doing to turn her against him – and though she will never see or know what others are doing, he will ensure she believes him and is too frightened of her daughters’ safety to risk confronting him or these ‘others’ about him.
He will tell her about his past lovers and relationships – before his marriage. He will tell her how cold and sterile his marriage was. He will tell her that he has never paid for sex, never used pornography, never been with a woman other than his wife while married – but theirs was an arranged marriage between families – she was an exceptional wife and mother but they had never truly, madly, deeply known love together. And now, with her, he does know true love, and he’ll leave out the mad part but she will feel it. And he will ask her about her experiences – and keep the intimate details stored until a later date when he will use the information to terrorize her.
He will always give her compliments. He has known her through many lifetimes – but this is the first time he has to show her his love. She will come to wish it were the last. She will come to believe that his love will kill her. And she will remain silent.
He will act overly concerned, soft and caring when she speaks to him of her terror of these unseen evil men and her fears for her daughters’ safety. He will tell her not to cry. He will tell her it’s okay to cry. He will take her tears and use them as his weapon, to show her how weak, stupid and ugly she is. How pathetic.
And she will believe him. She is pathetic for not being able to handle the terror. She will try to take her own life and he will laugh at her pitiful attempt to end it.
“You can never leave me,” he will tell her. “I will never let you go.”
And she will grow silent and only say those things that keep him calm, that cause him to applaud her, to appreciate her, to admire her.
Eventually, he will tell her that she reminds him of his mother. He will tell her how sad it makes him that his mother will never know her – for she is the woman she would have loved as her daughter-in-law.
He will create a ‘husband’ for her. One of the top family men whom no one will mess with – and to ensure no one messes with her. He will show her the wedding invitations, the marriage certificate. He will promise her that he will have the ‘marriage’ evaporate as soon as he has corrected all the wrongs so that then he can marry her himself — as soon as he has wrought vengeance on those who have tried to harm him. She will never wear the dress. Never walk the aisle. But he will convince her that isn’t necessary. He is doing this all for her. She must trust him. Believe him. She doesn’t. But she never tells him. And she never tells herself of her fears.
He will always take away the evidence and leave her with nothing to show for his promises, his threats, his lies. He will tell her he has signed papers in her name. “It is for your own good,” he will say. And she will remain silent. Sometimes, she’ll wonder where the papers are. But she doesn’t dare look for them. He will be angry if she does. And so, she stays silent and holds onto the darkness he tells her will keep her safe.
He will tell her of the many assassination attempts against him. He will carry a gun and show it to her ‘accidentally’. She will panic and he will laugh at her and tell her to face the truth, “life is tough and if she wants to keep her children safe, she’d better learn to accept he has a gun.” He will call her in a panic, telling her of the latest assassination attempt, telling her his cousin is dead, but he escaped with only minor wounds. He will call her from the funeral, tears in his voice. Begging her to help him understand why it has to be like this. Why can’t they just leave him alone to love her as she deserves to be loved.
He will keep her on the rollercoaster of his lies and she will keep her eyes tightly shut, missing the exits flying by.
He will make sure she fears for her life, and her daughters’ safety. She will despair that she has brought such terror into their existence, and he will tell her it is his fault, but he will fix it. And then, he’ll blame her for the mess and remind her that only he can fix it.
He will arrange for ‘things’ to happen to convince her that the evil men are watching, plotting, attempting to kill her or harm her daughters. There will be dead birds on her doorstep, bombs beneath her car. Kidnappers lurking, items missing from her home.
As her terror rises and she become less and less able to function, he will promise to protect her, to take care of her. He will remind her it is all her fault that she is like this and that the beautiful life he was building for her was destroyed. When a police investigator comes to see her about him and she spends five minutes talking to the investigator, he will yell and scream at her that she is stupid, stupid, stupid. When the ‘other woman’ accosts her in her office, he will scream and yell at her that she should not have gone into the office that day. And he will never explain why there is an investigation, or why the other woman exists. And she will be too frightened to ask.
He will make her change cell phones many times – to foil the evil men from listening to her calls. From tracking where he is and knowing where she is going. But he will always know and make sure she knows he sees her, even when he isn’t there.
He will ensure she knows he is taping her calls by repeating conversations she’s had with others. He will call her from far away places in the middle of the night and accuse her of having another man in her bed. He will accuse her of having at least two affairs. He will accuse her of vile things. He will use every ounce of knowledge he has about her against her. He will use her.
He will ensure she knows he is capable of murder. He will ensure she knows there is no getting away from him. He will ensure she witnesses his ability to harm others, to obtain vengeance. He will build the case to ensure she tries to kill herself and when she fails, he will hold her pinioned in his arms until she becomes the walking dead, alive only through his munificence.
And when he is not there, when he is away, she will sleep with one eye open for he is always lurking, somewhere in the corners of her mind.
I no longer sleep with one eye open. He is not lurking anywhere in the corners of my mind. I have filled my thinking with all that loves and supports me. I have no room for him in my mind today. He is not important. He has no value.He does not count in my life today.
written by M.L. Gallagher • Permalink •
OxDrover says:
Dear Louise,
Thank you for sharing, and as usual, it is written in such a way as to eloquently picture the pain and terror as well as explain the mounting fears….the mounting insanity of lies the psychopaths bind us in, like chains of slavery and humiliation.
Your writings are so inspirational and so theraputic, so healing, because overcoming these lies, finding the light, the truth, and learning from the past, forgiving ourselves for the past, is what LoveFraud is all about. thank you. ((((hugs))))
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Wednesday, 28 October 2009 @ 9:13am
M.L. Gallagher says:
(((Thank you OxDrover)))
ANd you are right — when we overcome and move through and soar above these fears and limiting beliefs — we find the true beauty of ourselves. And in our sharing, we inspire others to find their path into the light — your sharing is a gift that touches hearts and opens minds.
Thank you for touching mine with your brilliance.
Hugs
Louise
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Wednesday, 28 October 2009 @ 9:34am
OxDrover says:
WOW! Louise, (hanging head here in mock humility, and making circles in the dirt with my toe! LOL) you embarass me with such high praise from someone I admire so much for her wonderful writing skills as well as her strength of spirit!
Yes, it is a hard road we travel at times, but I think in the end, when we endure, we come out on the other end of that road, stronger and better people. Your stories and articles are an inspiration to us all! I learn more every day here at LF and seeing the healing in the posts from others is an inspiration in itself to keep on that road toward healing. (((hugs))))
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Wednesday, 28 October 2009 @ 9:47am
skylar says:
goodmorning Louise and Oxy,
yes, it triggered me.
It triggered me to want to smack that guy upside the head!
Really, REALLY TRIGGERED ME.
My xP was the same, all the fricken drama about drug deals and cops and homeland security.
How I wish I had known what I know now, I could have had such fun with his stupid little games. Oh, and “you remind me of my mother.” YEP been there done that.
Last night I dreamt that the xP and I had some ashes of his deceased father that we were going to bury. Later in the dream, those ashes turned out to be his mother’s ashes (though in reality she is not dead yet) . We drove to a property where there were 5 vicious guard dogs, but a woman came out and calmed them all. Then we lowered the ashes into a small hole in the grown and started to cover it. When we were done, there was a mound of dirt about 1 foot high and 6 inches in diameter and it was covered in red berries. I think that the dream symbolized my wish that we could bury his past and the effects that his mother and father had on both of our lives. Juniper berries symbolized improved health. My health has certainly improved since I left him and he’s no longer putting poison in my food!
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Wednesday, 28 October 2009 @ 10:15am
OxDrover says:
Dear Skylar,
Th epoison they leave in our MINDS and hearts and emotions is what we must concentrate on exorcising now that we are physically away from them. that is why NC is soooo VERY important to our well being, because they can’t give us NEW emotional injuries. It takes some calm and peace in order to heal and NC gives us that. As long as we engage with them, it makes it more difficult.
NC is sometimes extremely hard, especially if you share minor or even adult children with them as their smear campaign and intimidation makes us WANT to engage with them. Learning to NOT ENGAGE with them is our SALVATION, even if we must be in contact due to legal issues or shared parenthood.
Trying to “get justice” sometimes is more costly that what we recover. Listening to their threats keeps us in a chaotic uproar. It is only when we are NC emotionally and/or physically that we can start to see the elephant in the room.
I think our dreams sometimes are our mind/subconscious working out “stuff” to do with them. Sometimes my dreams have shown me that I was putting others needs before my own, and once I saw that, then recognized what I was doing in the waking state and stopped doing that, the dreams ceased.
I ocassionally have a nightmare, but not often. So I am sure there are still things that I need to work on. Staying on the road to healing is a life time effort, not a “destination” that we will reach one day and say “Oh, wow, I am fully healed.”
Many times I got on the road, felt myself healed 100% and now looking back I can see that I only partly “healed” from the immediate wounding, but didn’t stay on the road to healing long enough to realize that it is a JOURNEY, NOT A DESTINATION. So now, I will STAY on that road, and not become so arrogant within myself to say “I am healed” and need no further work, I know that I must continue to improve my thinking, refine my philosophy, and enjoy the journey, rather than thinking I will “get there.” that outlook makes the journey easier for me. And, I realize too that there will be “triggers” once in a while, but I CAN handle them, move on and learn from each one.
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Wednesday, 28 October 2009 @ 10:26am
style1 says:
Interestingly written.. and yes, it triggers and fits what occurred to me.. The instant love, the sweeping off my feet, the “I have known you in a past life”, “I have been looking for you all my life” the asking me to marry him in the first three weeks.. the trying to get me to sleep with him and when I was ready he couldn’t perform and later he blamed me. The secret deals that he has going with CIA, Banks and overseas. His self-importance. His claiming what I have as his, his sense of entitlement to my life. His claims for all that he will do for me when his ship comes in. His connections to ‘important’ people in is past and future. His delusions of grandeur. That I am like his mother. With almost the same name, a gourmet cook, elegant, upper-class. Then him turning on my when I don’t say ‘you’re welcome” to his ‘thank you.” Shouting that I was raised in a barn when I was more upper class than he has ever been.. I never bought it.. I has one foot in and one out … and he knew it.. him places his burdens onto me. Trying to make me fit into what he wants not who I am. His watching me, trying to figure out how to play me. His arrogance, his arrogance. That he is the authority on things spiritual. That he is a guru.. that he is not like other people. I have nightmares lately about him as I release him from me.. more and more each day and come back into reality… losing his false romance, his crazy life. It feels good to be in reality again. I feel solid.. yet those remnents of his contrived words linger and at moments make take me back to the memory of the ‘what if’s with him.. his whole life is a what if. And I want what is real.
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Wednesday, 28 October 2009 @ 10:40am
style1 says:
He took up my life with his continually calls, texts and attentiong. I became focused on him. He told me that he thought about me every minute of the day.. and he made contact all the time.. Now, there is a void. That is what feels strange.. even as I didn’t like the continual attention. I did on some level and now that it is gone, there is a void. That is why my mind goes back to him.. He trained me to do this. He conditioned me from the very beginning.. he wanted to take over my very life, my soul… and he made a good attempt.. and that is not love.. that is obsession and is evil. The opposite of love.. He just calls it love to make it seem desirable. He talked about love all the time.. and I never really felt it from him. He felt cold.
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Wednesday, 28 October 2009 @ 10:57am
shabbychic says:
What a terrifying way to live, he is pure evil, the hairs on the back of my neck stood up. This is a testament to how strong you are, an example to all of us as to how we can choose to get better and heal, as you have.
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Wednesday, 28 October 2009 @ 12:02pm
amber says:
Style 1…I TOTALLY know how you feel. That void. My exS would wake me up every morning with either a call or text if he wasn’t there in bed with me. I literally slept with my phone next to my head so I wouldn’t miss a call or a text. The attention, calls, texts, emails were non stop all day, until we went to sleep. Now…it’s crickets chirping and tumbleweeds blowing by. My phone is silent most of the day. It forces me to be with me, and that was the hardest thing to get used to. You’re right..they conditioned and trained us to gain control over us. I guess he thought the constant attention would prove that he loved and cared for me, or that I wouldn’t question him. The last time I ever saw him, it was a normal day..my good morning pookie…texted and talked allllllll day until I saw him that evening, and something told me to go through his phone. That’s when I discovered nonstop convos with another woman that very same day..all the while talking to me… (and this wasn’t the first time I caught him) There aren’t words to describe the rage and pain I felt, but that’s when I knew, I wasn’t the only one getting that attention, i had to stop lying to myself and I was done. I threw him out, vowed to never speak to him again, and haven’t heard from him since. Sometimes the peace and quiet is deafening. I hate it sometimes, because you’re right, that’s when my mind goes back to him. But other times it’s great. I can get stuff done without being constantly interrupted. They are evil, hell holds a special place for all of them! Stay strong. Time to fill that void with positive things that aren’t going to try and suck the life out of you.
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Wednesday, 28 October 2009 @ 2:35pm
style1 says:
amber, yes.. I just recently put it all together..I was wondering why I missed him when I wanted him to be gone.. and it’s the void that he left..
I recall hating it when the phone ring.. knowing it was him again..He interrupted my everyday life continually.. and blocked me from thinking or pulling away. I had to tell him aht I had to go to sleep by 11:30 or I was exhausted the next day.. He would keep me yaking until 1-2-3- in the morning.. and he was not tired even thought he worked hard all day. I think he was manic and that the love fix gave him energy.
I enjoy the peace now mostly and know when my phone rings that he is not him.. but still that void is there.. I found myself listening for the phone..
This is a major clue that something is off when someone makes contact that much.. Normal people do not need to hook in 24/7.. and he would tell me all sorts of details about his life and day that who cares!It was tooooo much info.. too much everything and too soon. And I did feel that he was sucking the life out of me. I even went through a time that I felt fearful of him.. although, he never hit. I have never been hit by anyone.. it has been emotional and verbal for me.. but something about this man, made me fearful I laid in bed and prayed that God would protect me from this man who ‘claimed’ to be so spiritual… I prayed that God would reveal the truth and that to get him out of my life and he did…This man was true to me.. he was obsessed with me and controlling me to be what he wanted.. and to fit into his plans…and when I pulled away.. or wasn’t what he thought.. he began revealing his trur hateful nature.
Yeah! Now, the void can be filled by me…
he is a void.. a hole that sucks the life out of women.
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Wednesday, 28 October 2009 @ 2:48pm
heavenbound says:
the p didn’t go so far with his game as to talk enemies of his, assassination or anything to dramatic but I still felt stalked, evil looming, all those things by the way he acted or he’d make a comment using words I’d used when he wasn’t around. He never told me anything much about himself. what was going on or anything. I would ask him to talk to me at best i’d get an insult, I’d ask him to call me once in a while on a break or lunch, he was always too busy, I’d ask him to txt some. It’d be nice for him to at least pretend he cared…He was always too busy.
We share a phone contract that will be up none too soon, but in the mean time the bill shows that since he has left that he calls people all the time and he texts people…about 800 txts a month and this last weekend he txted to the same one(a new person) 600 texts in 3 days.
I know this is stupid to be hurt by this but wow it hurts. I wish I wish I hadn’t looked. Why did he act like he was too busy to even txt me once a week or call ever, but he can talk and talk with other people? 800txt a month? seriously!
I can’t believe he spent all that time making me feel so worthless, lonely, scared, on and on and yet I care that he has been talking to others for hours at a time txting. I tell myself I know what it was like to try to talk to him and that’s what these people are dealing with but my feelings still feel so hurt.
I’ve hit a slump and can’t seem to get out of it.
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Wednesday, 28 October 2009 @ 6:18pm
amber says:
Style..you’re so right HE IS A VOID. I believed my ex was bipolar as well. Oh and he had ADHD. Man do I know how to pick em…he was a bipolar, ADHD, drug addict sociopath. Let me tell you..not such a good combo. It became apparent to me within a few short months. His highs were out of control, and his lows were scary. And they were on a set shedule. We we be on the high for 2-3 months and each time the 3rd month rolled around..i knew any day we were doomed for a low that would last about a month. After 4 years it became torture for me. His lows were filled with suicidal thoughts, barely any contact and just turned into the most depressing person on earth. At first I was devastated because I lived through his happiness, and all I wanted to do was make it better for him, but he would just push me away which killed me more. The last year of our relationship when he hit his lows it was like a relief for me that I knew that I was going to not have to deal with his drama. And then just like that he would snap out of it and the high would return and he was soooo happpy and in love with me again. He was truly sick. He was watching his kids one night and sent me a text saying that he only wanted his children to remember that he loved them then ate a bottle of pills and drank. It was so out of nowhere, he always talked about how he just wanted to end it all because it would be so much easier than living his life. And I could only imagine! I can’t begin to think how difficult it must be to keep track of all the lies you tell and the people you manipulate. The weird part is, my ex KNEW he was a bad person and he hated himself for it, but it’s as if he wasn’t able to control it. I truly believe he was satan incarnate.
I won’t lie, I still to this day, out of habit, first thing when my eyes open in the morning…I check my phone?!?! I don’t know why I still do it. And anytime my phone rings I wonder…is it him? But I know it’s not going to be..I had his # blocked. My brain had been wired to only think of him and it’s still working on undoing the damage. I became addicted to the attention I believe and sometimes I still have withdrawls. But what keeps that not missing him is the thought of those lows and the emotioal rollercoaster that we were constantly on. I welcome this void. You should too.
Heavenbound…I too found myself playing detective checking his phone, his hotel reservations, everything. But I had to stop because it hurt so much whenever I found anything. But especially after we were through, I vowed to NEVER EVER check on anything related to him ever again. Now I feel like what I don’t know won’t hurt me. That was his poilcy right?? So now I even tell my friends to not tell me anything if they find anything out, I don’t care to know any of it anymore. It’s not worth it. You deserve better. Don’t let yourself fall into a slump because that means he wins. Don’t give him that satisfaction. It’s going to hurt. It’s supposed to heart. If we didn’t hurt, we would be like them because that means that we don’t feel. Feeling and hurting is part of the process. It’s your choice from here on out how happy you want to be. Choose your happiness!! The slump will pass. But do whatever you can to lift your spirits and take care of yourself. HUGS!!
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Wednesday, 28 October 2009 @ 6:56pm
heavenbound says:
yes, I know (I say with my head down). sigh
I’m not hurting about it now. But the slump is an awful place to be. I don’t wish it on anyone. Thanks for your encouragement amber.
I truly believe they are satan incarnate myself.
We truly are better off without them, it bothers me that, even with that knowledge, we still suffer the things we each suffer in wondering and thinking about them and the ups and downs, just all of it. Hugs to you also amber!
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Wednesday, 28 October 2009 @ 8:51pm
henry says:
HeavenBound – What you don’t know might kill you. But now that he is gone the less you know, the better off you are. My X’s cell phone would ring all times of the day and nite and he would say “sorry wrong number” or he would walk outside to take the call. At nite he would turn it off or keep on vibrate in his pocket. So, stupid me tuned it on one nite while he was asleep and it rang – I answered – and I will never forget – Some man said “Hey I found your number on the restroom wall at______” I didnt want to believe it – but too make a long sick story short, I put his cell phone in the microwave for 8 seconds and kicked him out that nite…………………………………………..but I took him back even after that – oh those crocodile tears and suicide attemps got to me every time – pity pity pity
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Wednesday, 28 October 2009 @ 9:06pm
shabbychic says:
heavenbound, yes a slump is an awful place to be, I’ve been in one lately and I wish it would just go away quickly! I agree with henry and amber that it would be better not to even look at his cell phone bill or anything else. I also think of my ex often, I guess I’m still thinking about my dream of him.
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Wednesday, 28 October 2009 @ 10:01pm
shabbychic says:
Did anyone see Larry King tonight? A doctor said that UCLA did a study on men with Anti Social Personality Disorders (I believe they said the men had committed violent acts). UCLA performed brain scans on these men and they found that they had 10% less volume in the front part of their brain than normal people (they described it as the part of the brain that emotion comes from, compassion, empathy, remorse, etc). They didn’t really say much more than that, but I thought it was VERY interesting. I wonder if I could google the study and if I did find it… if I would understand it!
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Wednesday, 28 October 2009 @ 10:08pm
henry says:
hmmm hollow in the head as well – go figure…
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Wednesday, 28 October 2009 @ 10:39pm
Rosa says:
I have read similar information about brain scans and psychopathy, and that their brains do not respond to certain stimuli like a normal, healthy person’s brain would.
I say let the brain scans begin.
We can start with my brother’s wife and my mom’s boyfriend.
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Wednesday, 28 October 2009 @ 10:48pm
witsend says:
Rosa,
My son to!
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Wednesday, 28 October 2009 @ 11:39pm
shabbychic says:
It gives new meaning to the old saying… “you need to go get your head examined!”
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Wednesday, 28 October 2009 @ 11:46pm
pollyannanomore says:
This is what it is like – even if the details are somewhat different in each story – there is a general thread of lies, manipulation, distortion, grandiose schemes and plans and a general lack of love for the target. I haven’t decided yet if they are aware of what they do – I think on some level they do know the pain they cause. Perhaps they don’t though.
It is high time researchers got into finding out what causes this and what treatments can be effective – these people wreak havoc on others and on society. They need to be stopped.
It is really horrible to read down the comments and see the legacy of pain being suffered by each person in their own private hell after dancing with the s. The irony is they are not weeping – they are fine. it is so unfair.
Heavenbound – can so relate to the slump. I have days when I am on top of it all and can articulate what happened and what the recovery process will look like then there are other days when I realise that my life is not what I wanted and got badly derailed by him. I then start to connect with the ocean of pain in my heart from ALL hurts throughout my whole life and this is what makes it overwhelming. I spent much of the weekend crying, reading and not doing much at all.
I re-iterate what other posters have said. The slump will pass and in the meantime try to do what makes your heart sing to get through it. Even if your heart only smiles reservedly to start with! Even if you think you can’t really be bothered. My current obsession is sewing – even though I am a really crap sewer
It’s nice to buy bits of pretty fabrics on sale though and to day dream!
I sure hope you feel better today – lots of people are thinking about you.
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Thursday, 29 October 2009 @ 1:19am
heavenbound says:
oh Henry, I missed you just by a few minutes
I posted and got busy with my boys… lots of homework its finals week and my youngest is home sick…the flu
I like the microwave trick, I wish I’d thought to do that.
The p always went outside to talk and would set it on vibrate or turn it off. I knew there was something going on there. But I knew I couldn’t survive knowing,…I think.
Hollow in the head…lol that is believable!
Shabbychic…I wish the slump would go away quickly too. I’m sorry your in one as well. I really do need to not look at the cell records. I wanted to see if he had tried to check on our boy because he is sick and he said he would…(I keep my cell shut off because of him)…he didn’t. It sounds awful that he didn’t but I’m glad he didn’t bother playing fake.
I didn’t catch what your dream was, I’ll have to try and find it.
Pollyannanomore,
I do feel alittle better. I’m sorry you had a down weekend.
It is so easy to slip from the top with a vision to the bottom were all the hurt still is. I’m so angry about how far off I let this derail me. But hopefully we’re headed back to the top again!
I love you all!
Gemini… I don’t think you have been on this section so I hope you find this, but I want you to know you are on my heart and I love you…love, hugs, and prayers, heavenbound
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Thursday, 29 October 2009 @ 1:36am
skylar says:
polly, they are very aware of what they do. It’s a game to them. But they are aware that they are different and don’t understand why. So they make up stories of alien abduction, genetics, the devil, whatever they can imagine, as an excuse.
the truth is they are self indulgent and they indulged their own tantrum. so they became P’s. so sad for them.
They like to see others suffer because it feeds their desire to have what you have. They are envious at the core. They want you to have nothing because they feel cheated.
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Thursday, 29 October 2009 @ 2:08am
Brilhancy says:
I think we can copy and paste our life stories with the S. How incredibly similar they are… The only changes are locations, times and their F..ing names..
I think brain scan should be compulsory and also have a international databse with their names and major crimes they have committed. This should prevent many other victms, many inocent lives and many descent people to have their beautiful lifes destroyed by those aliens.
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Thursday, 29 October 2009 @ 2:32am
geminigirl says:
Dear heavenbound, I really appreciate your love nd prayers this evening. i did what Oxy advised me NOT to do, looked up my older P daughter on facebook, and i found a new “friend” on it, my other daughter,C, 43, whom I havent seen,[her decision not mine,} in nearly 17 years. I havent seen a photo of her either in all this time,so it really threw me. She is still beautiful, but I looked at her eyes and realised she is a sick, troubled soul, and not happy despite the rich Jewish boy shes living with, who she has 3 kids by. {Ive never once been allowed to see these kids.} Serves me right for looking at Ds facebook,-shes cut me out of it, but I was still able to find her “friends” Wont be looking again, Ive learnt my lesson.It hurts though.Much Love, and {{HUGS}} to you too, Oxy, Ive learned the hard wayas usual!! Love, gem.XX
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Thursday, 29 October 2009 @ 5:31am
style1 says:
Mine wrote in an email early on that he has always known that he was different than other people. I think to some degree, at times, we all have that feeling.. but he thought that he was so above everyone else.. that he could see and know on a higher or better level than anyone one else..and that is how he approached me .. that he was so wise, so spiritual, so intelligent and so all knowing that he was ahead of the game.. while actually his life was in a mess. He decsions had put him in a place where he was being evicted from a house. Instead of taking action to take care of himself.. he came after me.. conned me and I ended up helping him out of the mess and he lived with me.. then I find out that he hadn’t paid rent for three months.. when I asked him why didn’t he move somewhere less costly and smaller. He always had excuses. THey get others to help them with their life and things that had they made different choices that they could’ve corrected on their own. I made it easier for him and gave him direction and a wonderful place to live while he pulled me into his spin.. Had I stayed in his spin.. I would eventually find myself in dire straits like he is. He didn’t lift me up .. he brought me down.. That is what I have become very aware of.. I want people in my life that lift me instead of take me down and burden me. And if it doesn’t occur then I am better off alone. I know what to expect if I am alone.. and I don’t have someone else’s past guiding and destroying my present and future. It was like he said I love you, you are the love of my life, now, I have financial problems, children, some who are ill, emotionally and physically and you have a house and no children.. Now, when I make it big I will do this and that for you but for now, this is how it is.. most of my money goes to my ex and yes, I have bad credit and no house, and have to work all the time.. but you have a house, and some resources, so isn’t this perfect for me. He never thought about what he was doing and could possibly do to me. He never thought that his bad credit would affect me should I have been stupid enough to marry him. He neve thought that I could be made responsible for his child support should I have been stupid enough to marry him. He wanted me thinking about how much he loved me and the flowers that he brought to me and all the attention that he gave me.. he wanted me so spun out that I married him and took on his burdens.. and when I told him that I wasn’t interested in taking care of his children, his life, his burdens.. he told me that I wasn’t spiritual and that I was rude…
LOLOLOLOLOLO
The deal is that we have got to learn to beaware and to take care of ourselves and to not be blindsided or needy for attention of love.. because if we are whole we see through the con faster and better.. and the less that we allow creeps into our life to manipulate us.
I saw him and I observed him.. and I forced him to keep giving and giving to me.. I never really attached to him… I get now what my friends say when they say.. you never really bought what he was selling..
But the deal is that I ‘wanted’ what he was selling to be true. I wanted the dream that he presented.. but having him gone, although there is a temporary void ..I have a chance to really have it.. instead of the illusion of it.
They are illusion… And reality is where we live.
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Thursday, 29 October 2009 @ 10:37am
henry says:
They are not an illusion – what they promise and say and do is the illusion. They paint an illusion for us. But they are flesh and bone humans. They know they are different ( I am fucked up is was what my X would say) . but they are walkin talkin sexin flesh and blood real .. it is how they play with our heads and hearts, how they fuck with our reality, undermine our sanity..with illusions of whatever – but they see we are crumbling and they fuckin get off on that – it’s power to them – it’s control – it’s sick. good morning~!
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Thursday, 29 October 2009 @ 10:53am
shabbychic says:
henry, amen to that! Good morning! LOL
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Thursday, 29 October 2009 @ 11:10am
amber says:
Mine knew he was sick too, but didn’t know what was wrong with him. “I’m dark” “I destoy eerything I touch” “I don’t see the good in me” “I’m not a good person” “I’m just an actor, but don’t want to do it to you too.” “I know I’m only capable of hurting you” blah blahhh blaaaaahhhhhhh… And I’ll never forget, we were probably on our second date, and he made it very clear that “if I made any wrong moves that they would find me with cement shoes on at the bottom of the ocean” my jaw dropped and I thought well that’s just not something you say on a second date. Later on he would describe in great detail how he would get rid of a body, I mean down to every last minute detail and he was convinced he had mastered it. And you could literally see him get off on telling me, he got such a rise out of it, big grin. So creepy. Makes me wonder why he knew so much sometimes?!?!?! I actually told some of my friends exactly every detail he would tell me, and warned them that if I disappeared you know where to look or who to go after. All the signs were there. But we all wanted to buy what they were selling. They are artists of creating a dreamworld that they want us to live in. He knew all along that he was destroying me but chose to do it, even knowing how bad he was hurting me. They are sick, demented, soulless creatures. I’m glad I got out before I ended up in cement shoes.
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Thursday, 29 October 2009 @ 11:17am
style1 says:
Okay.. he is flesh and bones creating an illusion.. semantics… the deal is once the illusion is gone so are the flesh and bones.. and they try to make you feel that it is because you aren’t ‘good’ enough in someway.. when what the deal is is that you didn’t surcomb to their needs and keep them in their delusion.. I recall one day at the end of the relationship.. he is berrating me because I didn’t respond “you’re welcome” He is going on and on about it.. and I looked at him and in a calm voice stated. “This is ridiculous. Do you hear yourself? Are you mentally off?” And I watched him and I could tell that I had really hit a nerve.. He paused for a second… he was so flustered.. yeah right and it was all because I didn’t say “You’re welcome.” He continued to rant and I just watched.. then when right before I got out of the car.. I said. “You are 57, have no savings, no money and live paycheck to paycheck, you can’t afford a home, have bad credit and all these children to take care of and you are coming down on me beacause I didn’t say “You’re welcome.” Just how twisted is all this? Then I got out of the car and he drove off instead of coming into workout with me. I called him and to pick me up and he is still ranting about how rude that I am. He picks me up and while I was working out he packed up to leave and he left.. That wasn’t the total end of it.. but the deal is that any real confrontation blows them apart.. he focused on putting me down with total trivia to make himself feel superior.. because he felt so inferior and choose to live in his somedays and what if’s…
He has this act of how good and spiritual that he is, how mannerly.. and he believes it and that is why he is convincing, at first..
but he has nothing to offer a woman but his past burdens made by his choices.. and if the woman doesn’t want to take them on then they are rude or ‘bad’ to him…
So he creates the illusion but he also is the illusion..
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Thursday, 29 October 2009 @ 11:57am
Rosa says:
Style1:
“‘Are you mentally off?’ And I watched him and I could tell that I had really hit a nerve..”
If you are going to push a button, that is the Mother of all Buttons to push.
You are lucky he did not beat you, or even kill you.
I am being totally serious.
You have to be really careful, especially if you are with one who has poor impulse control.
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Thursday, 29 October 2009 @ 12:19pm
skylar says:
Style,
I’ve been thinking about his focus on “your welcome”.
I think what he noticed most about you is the “grace” which you project to others. He envied that grace and style. He decided that he was not only going to take it, but you were going to be left without it – or at least doubting that you had any.
Initially he was mirroring you and trying to one-up you with his “spirituality”, then he caught you in one slip up, when you didn’t say thank you. He tried to take the opportunity to drive a knife into your self image over this one little thing. That show that he is an amateur. My xP would have been more patient and with time, he would have convinced you to do something degrading or illegal, and THEN used that against you. Mine uses the pity ploy to get the most upstanding people to break the law, (as a favor to him) little stuff, with documents or taxes. Then he starts you down the slippery slope to illegal and degrading activities. He is very patient but the longer it takes the more he builds up rage and hate toward you because he has to cowtow to you during that time. In the end, his hatred toward you justifies destroying you. Bizarre, since if he just been honest, he would never had had to play the stupid game to begin with.
They are 4 year olds with circular logic. That’s why there is no getting to them through that route.
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Thursday, 29 October 2009 @ 12:23pm
style1 says:
Rosa,
Mine was not physically violent at all. I have never been hit nor would I put up with it for one instant. I attract the emotional and mental cons.. he could verbally annilhate most anyone with his intellect and knowledge. In fact, I punched him once during an argument. He is 6′2″ and I am 5′3″ and he started calling me violent and I am about the least violent of anyone and have never been called that ever. He provokes anger because of his manipulation. But I did look at myself and wonder.. I punched him in the arm.. am I violent? But he called all his exs violent. Were they really? I punch a man that I workout with in the arm playfully and in anger.. and he laughs.. I couldn’t hurt him and he gets it.. This man was overly sensitive. He provoked then when he has a person wired up and they react.. he points at them.
And yes, Skylar he was attacting the essence of me trying to get me to doubt myself anyway that he could. I am mannerly and I am not violent…
Was it his projection? As he is verbally rude and violent in his manipulative way.. very complex stuff..
But as far as illusion.. I think not only do they create the illusion that they want you to see and believe .. I think the good ones become it… like a good actor .. you can’t tell that they are playing a roll.
Hitting is too obvious.. Remember they are all different based on their background, genetics, experieces.. Mine came across like the kindest, most spiritually aware and oh, so refined… so, how could I doubt his intentions.. well, I did and I was
correct! And when I called it out… he blew away.. he couldn’t handle the truth of who that he is. A man that works hard, owes lots, and has much responsiblity.. so he lives in his dreams of the big deal .. and hooks women with resources in with his spiritual and handsome, refined demeaner.
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Thursday, 29 October 2009 @ 12:38pm
style1 says:
One of my friends ( that has known me for 20 yrs and told me that I am one of the most spiritual, non-violent and polite type people that there could be,k but that doesn’t mean that I won’t stand up for myself) saw it has he won’t allow you to be you and express yourself, be it anger or anything else. He would say at times, say if I disagreed with him or was playfully kidding him, “Is that anyway to talk to the love of your life?”
Well, for one I never told him that he was the love of my life and he certainly wasn’t.. He orchestrated and told me what he wanted me to believe.. like the rude deal.. He is the one that is rude. He butted into my life and called my house his.. is that rude or what.. or is not replying ‘you’re welcome’ to his ‘thank you’ after I had done his laundry.
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Thursday, 29 October 2009 @ 12:50pm
style1 says:
He wanted me so mannerly, complacent and to doubt myself so much that he and his daughter could come into my world and forced their dsfunction into my life. He wanted me apologsing for not wanting a 20 plus kid of his ex and another man in my life. He wanted me to do his bidding, being his queen with no powers …. He wanted to feel like a king but he has no idea what a real king is…
He didn’t want reality, truth .. he wanted to create it all… when we met. He told me that I came out of his dreams… the way that I look and that we are the same upper-class with manners…blah blah…
Well, he wanted to be me.. he wanted my life. His mother had been wealthy in Argentina but had lost it all and she died in poverty and I helped her in the end..
he lived in the past an in delusions of grandeur that were not his but his mother’s and her father.
like some lost aristocrity… He appears like he has it all and he has nothing.. I mean nothing. And he was flip about money.. I would watch my pennies and plan what I bought. He spent money impulsively and acted like it didn’t matter.. while talking about it all the time.. he wasn’t into reality money.. he was into millions and billions… LOL… and he couldn’t get a new credit card.. owned nothing, had no investments… and slept in a bed that I paid for… But he was going to tell me how to behave and when to say ‘you’re welcome’
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Thursday, 29 October 2009 @ 12:59pm
skylar says:
Style,
I think he was just mirroring you. If you had been a mother teresa then he would be too. Or a trailer tramp, or a police officer or whatever. He isn’t anything, he has no baseline except that of a parasite. That’s because he is a 4 year old child. Children are very malleable and flexible.
But children are attracted to shiny things, and they want everything they don’t have. You looked really shiny to him. He could see the self-esteem in your posture and carriage, and your lifestyle. He envied them so he mirrored them. But it isn’t enough to have these things, he was determined to take them away from you. That’s why he tried to chip away at your self-image. When you punched him, he made a big deal, not because it hurt him, but because he wanted you to see that you had broken out of you normal reserved character. Never mind the fact that he had caused it.
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Thursday, 29 October 2009 @ 1:07pm
Rosa says:
Mine never laid a hand on me, either. No violent tendencies at all. And, I knew him for almost 10 years.
He was always a calm, cool, collected, smooth operator.
However, at the end, when I was backing away from him and the relationship, he started punching walls, slamming doors, firing guns, & destroying my property.
I never saw any of this behavior in the first 8 years of knowing him.
It all surfaced AT THE VERY END!
When someone is destroying everything around you, it is just a matter of time before they get around to YOU, in my opinion.
I believe they are ALL capable of unspeakable violence & harm.
Some are just more “refined” or “higher-functioning” than others.
Yesterday, I read one of Kathleen Hawk’s posts, and she called her ex a “dangerous emotional cripple”.
That is a great way to phrase it, and one of the key words is DANGEROUS.
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Thursday, 29 October 2009 @ 1:13pm
style1 says:
Skylar,
I think you are correct and thank you for pointing this out.. I went through a phase when I wondered..am I rude, am I violent.. and that, of course, is what he wanted me to do. And he would comment about how flexible that he is..
The woman who does my hair (we are friends) when she met him commented on how he stepped into her boundaries.. she didn’t like him much. She called him a badger, a tick.. and I notice there are post calling them this…SHe knew how I plotted, planned, saved up and watched what I spent.. then he just move into my life.
He had been married to a woman who molested their daughter for 10 years.. He foudn this out after they were divorced.. but I wondered how could he not see this nature.. being so spiritual, in touch and all, and he claimed that this woman was an alcoholic and came after him with a knife..
So he lived at this level..
Then with me I am berrated for not saying, ‘you’re welcome’ at each appropriate juncture..
so he was a chameleon.. a badger that would fit in were he could and attacks on the level that will do the trick..
reading and writing on this site has really helped me with my porcessing..
Thank you…
Now everyone say “you’re welcome!”
LOLOL
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Thursday, 29 October 2009 @ 1:26pm
style1 says:
Rosa,
I agree. And I did sense danger from him at times. I felt ill more around him than ever in my life.. just kind of this malaise..
Like I wrote in some other post.. I would lay in bed beside him and pray for God to protect me and to reveal what I need to see and to know.. and it was…
he has this booming voice that he would utilize..
Get this.. he is handsome and I was not sexually attracted to him, he was spiritual and I didn’t feel it. He talked about love all the time and I didn’t feel it. He talked about money all the time and had none.. and I was engaged to this man for about eight months with a fake main diamond in the setting and I have never worn fake ever. Does that tell you, I was brainwashed for while… like in a dream, an illusion.. until I woke up…
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Thursday, 29 October 2009 @ 1:39pm
Rosa says:
Style1:
I am glad you were able to recognize him for what he was, and that you are here and safe.
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Thursday, 29 October 2009 @ 1:48pm
henry says:
yes yes yes – I was afraid of him – afraid to make him leave – he made threats and would say I love you in the same sentence – I wasnt weak , just under his spell and I felt so sorry for him and feared him at the same time – he loved my dogs but I was afraid he would kill them to hurt me – I was afraid he would burn my house down – I hoped and prayed he would find a new victim and leave with out completely destroying me – the times he did leave I would sleep with a gun and hide my wallet – he broke into my house several times and destroyed things – here in Oklahoma the police just laughed at me…thank God he is gone and I have not seen him in 18 months – he’s someone else’s problem now – I still get feelings that he is lurking about but I dont think he is…
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Thursday, 29 October 2009 @ 2:15pm
Matt says:
style1:
Unbelievable that the act like this. The S was 40 years old, an ex-con, living in a bed bug-ridden tenement (which I paid 3 months back rent on, thank you kindly) and had 15 creditor default judgments against him. I’m an attorney and was willing to overlook the record. In addition to his rent, I paid for every date, every trip, every everything. I offered him access to the life he said he wanted — doorman building on the Upper East Side of NYC, charities I’m involved with, etc.
Gratitude? Not on your life. Not only was I mentally bludgeoned, I was constantly reminded just how much people disliked me, etc. And the cherry on the charlotte russe, as my grandmother used to say, was when I took him on a trip to my family’s villa in Greece — and he ripped off a kaftan from my neighbor’s villa. Now, that’s gratitude for ya.
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Thursday, 29 October 2009 @ 3:17pm
style1 says:
They have nothing to lose and everything to gain. They aren’t appreciative because they don’t have it or own it. Mine would say that he didn’t believe in prenups.. why would he, he had nothing.. I didn’t quite realize this in the beginning.. then later he told me that he would sign a prenup..
I never had the intention of every marrying him.. engaged was enough..
If you have nothing to lose and everything to gain.. you have no appreciation…
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Thursday, 29 October 2009 @ 5:32pm
witsend says:
henry,
I can relate to a few of the things you said. I am also afraid of what my son does to the dogs when I am not around.
It is a strange feeling when you can’t be comfortable in your own house nor are you comfortable when you are away from it. That is kind of where I am at right now.
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Thursday, 29 October 2009 @ 6:03pm
henry says:
wit I am sorry you have to live like this – thankfully I feel very safe now…but a child like this is another thing – i dont have a clue what to say to you..unless it would be :Beam me up Scotty!”
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Thursday, 29 October 2009 @ 6:20pm
henry says:
Witsend – One time when my xS. pulled one of his suicide attempts – I called his mother whom I had never met too talk to her or get some insight as to why he was this way. She Said “He can’t come to my place, I can’t do anything with him and you don’t need to be involved with him because he is a BOOGER.” and hung up the phone! Well I guess that was some insight..
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Thursday, 29 October 2009 @ 6:44pm
witsend says:
henry,
Was she for real? A BOOGER….To funny.
Henry, do you think that your xS suicide attempts were to hurt you because of your sister?
Or do you think he was suicidal?
I would NEVER, ever, tell anyone to not take suicide attempts seriously. When someone threatens suicide to family members and loved ones, several times, after awile they become immune to this. However I know a lady whose mother actually suicided after threatening suicide many times during her life. On this particular day, although she said it many times before, she meant it.
Her family was devastated because of course they didn’t believe her.
But knowing how EVIL P/S/N can be, do you think he did this because of your circumstance or was he suicidal before he met you?
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Thursday, 29 October 2009 @ 11:01pm
henry says:
he is a cutter – he had scars on his wrist when I met him. It was his attempt at proving his love to me. He is a cluster B personality disorder. I felt so responsible for him, he forced me to take care of him, wich in away was his way of controling me. He really was/is messed up. Has many issues. He told me he was abandoned my his parents at 2 years old, his sister was 5 at the time and she tried her best to take care of him, until his grandparents came and got them and raised them. Then his super religous grandmother disowned him when he revealed he was gay and kicked him out at 18 years old the day he graduate high school. He was on his own from then on and from what I have peiced together has lived with one man after the other, never staying in a relationship long , the longest was 6 years. But to answer your question No I dont think it had anything to do with my sister – it was a form of manipulation – also cutters do this to escape reality. Any way Witsend I dont know if any of what he told me about his childhood is truth or not. I did tell his mom he had told me she abandoned him and she denied it and said his father had but not her. My X did talk of fond memories of growing up with his grandparents tho – he adored his grand father. But yes his mother said he was a Booger and she said my daughter is just like him, she said she didnt know why her kids were that way…
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Thursday, 29 October 2009 @ 11:44pm
witsend says:
henry,
Ahh I see that I didn’t see the last reply you made. Sometimes when the thread is lost on the main page I loose track.
He really does have a “story” behind him doesn’t he? And of course as you say you don’t know how much of it is true. How much of it was fact and how much was his perception of it as a child and how much of it became tangled up in actual lies as he told the story as an adult. That is probably the REAL question here.
There seems to be a very common thread of abandonment issues with S/P/N disorder……
I am REALLY struggling with this right now. My very FIRST instinct when I saw troubling personality traits in my son, was that very thing. He has underlying abandonment issues from when his father suicided. It occured to me that he “shut down” on that tragic day because he was there alone with him for many hours, before I arrived after my shift at work.
His abandonment issues could also include me. He was a very scared and tramatized child and I was NOT THERE for him at this time of need.
I don’t know, I don’t think this takes a rocket scientist to figure out. When he went into counseling it seems to me that this would at least been something they would have EXPLORED with him. I was very disappointed to find his counselor did not.
Suicide is a dark place to explore. I realize this as I had to explore it myself during my own therapy. But if my therapist avoided it, I wouldn’t have been able to deal with my underlying feelings about it either.
My personal struggle now seems to be with PERCEPTION……The key seems to be how a child percieves information. If something doesn’t really “SHUT DOWN” early on in the childs brain and things don’t process (normally) after that.
One of the things that we all struggle to understand about this disorder is the lack of empathy, of being able to FEEL love. We are giving our love, why can’t they feel it?
The hardest part for me to look at in my son is his hatred for me. How did that manifest within him? What is HIS perception of his childhood (after the suicide) that warrants that hatred?
What manifests hatred? It’s hard to digest this.
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Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 1:15pm
amber says:
Witsend…In my experience with a S with deep rooted issues of abandonment…YES we are giving our love…so why can’t they feel it?
I believe they have had such trauma in the past with those they love that they shut down and choose (whether is consciously or not) to never feel or love again. They were so betrayed or violated that in turn, they only know how to express those feelings back to the wolrd. They never really get over those issues and if not dealt with properly, they shut down emotionally, thus turing them into P/S/N. For my S, his aunt was babysitting him when he was a todler and he woulnd’t stop crying so she laid a hot clothes iron across his legs to shut him up. Traumatizing? YES! And his mother used to beat him senseless and when he developed behavioral issues as a teen, she sent him to CA (they lived in England) to live with other family members because he became so difficult. Now his mom is super religious and she denies ever laying a finger on him. She sits in front of her TV all day watching Christian television and spending all of her time at the church and wanting to pray for him because she now feels that he’s a bad person. My ex has serious resentment for her and I believe took all his aggression out on other women. Women have always been disposable to him. He would not allow another women to abandon him, instead he would take advantage of and destoy them the way his aunt and mother did. Sometimes I feel like it was his way of getting even, whether he realized it or not.
My ex KNEW he had abandonment issues, and had no problem telling me ALLLL about them. But I think they choose to not ever be hurt again (whether is consciously or not) but shutting down completely, building walls and never letting anyone else to get so close so that they can’t be hurt. My ex said he couldn’t allow himself to love me they way I loved him because if he did, I would turn around and leave him. Instead he would sabatoge everything he touched, pushing me away, not allowing himself to FEEL. He flat out told me he didn’t want to FEEL. And that pissed me off more than anything..it was like he was on the verge of “seeing the light.” If he could just let go, then things would be different.
But we have to realized that they don’t ever see that light. They don’t want to see it, they don’t want to let go. They would rather drive themselves to the edge and wallow in their self pity, only to take advantage of those that want to help or to love them. Feeling and love are too scary for them. But I really think that deep down that’s all they really want, is to be loved. They just don’t know how to let it happen or how to feel it. I think that’s why my ex was so suicidal. It must be a miserable existence knowing that you’re too afraid to love. It’s how we as humans survive. It’s essential for us to be happy. That’s why they are never happy, they have lost this human emotion to love or feel empathy.
I’m sorry your son is filled with so much hatred, and yes it must be hard to digest, but sometimes you have to realize that their is nothing left for you to do. You know that you still have the ability to love and feel and be free, and although he is your son, it’s not worth you sacrificing your sanity to figure out why he chooses not to love and feel, and spew hatred. But we’re here for you, stay strong. And live your life for you! Life is too short to let the negative rule your existence. Reading other people’s stories, and having their advice and comfort has really helped. You’re not alone..so pick yourself up and LIVE, LOVE and FEEL!! HUGS.
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Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 2:23pm
ErinBrock says:
Wits:
As ‘gappy’ as one of my kids are (the one I told you about) and as much as I don’t understand his behaviors AT ALL…his disconnect, his denial…..
At some point, I do know (Rarely) that I can break through to him.
He still comes to me with issues (even though I NEVER give him the answers he is looking for)….he looks for me to take on his issues etc…
He still calls me after speaking with an authority and says….I was told the same thing you told me by so and so……and now what you said makes sense to me. I will try that approach mom.
Last night we had an all out discussion……he wasn’t happy and wanted his way…..during the discussion, in my office…..I ‘accidently’ on purpose dropped a bill for 57K on the floor in front of him….he can’t help himself but to look at hit as he hands it to me……and says…..wow….what’s this? I explained that, that was just ONE of MANY……and I happened to have a stack more in front of me……I said….THATS the same as this, and this, and this one, and this one…….as i handed them all to him, one by one…each bill……he was mortified…..at the expenses…….
I said, Oh yeah, here’s the cell phone that you demanded I added texting to and why I can’t afford to ……and here’s the water bill that you so generously run the water to steam up the whole house (for 1 hour) before entering to shower…..($275), this is from a doctor last Christmas when you yadayada…..and wouldn’t stay home to recuperate completely and landed up in the hospital…… I went on and on …..was on a roll…..a reality roll……
As I saw them all myself…I was in tears…..he was in shock.
Then I said……
SO…….where would we all be if I CHOSE TO IGNORE ALL THESE??????
AND THIS IS JUST ONE PORTION OF MY LIFE……
I’m fighting my health, I’m raising you kids and tending to all your needs, I rebuilding the business, I’m maintaing our homes (without any help from YOU), I’m fighting to keep the house out of foreclosure, I’m trying to take care of me, I am going to court to protect our rights, blah, blah blah……
Now……here’s the deal…..Is it easy…..NO! Am I alone…..YES…….
Do I choose to ignore it, pretend any of this isn’t happening? NO….I’m dealing with it all!
Do I blame anyone….NO…….
It wouldn’t matter to anyone WHY I am in this predicament……It wouldn’t change any of it if it did matter……
I AM HERE
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Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 2:55pm
ErinBrock says:
I am present, and I am coping!
So…..whatareyagonnadowithyourlife?
Ya gonna graduate, or ya gonna remain a victim and nestle in nice and cozy?
BECAUSE THE REALITY IS NO ONE WILL CARE WHEN YOU DON”T!
All the consequences will be YOURS!
I know you’re capable, I know you can do it and I also KNOW IT”S YOUR CHOICE NOT TO!
To avoid it all……..
I’m telling you………It’s not a smart thing to continue doing what you’re doing!
It won’t hurt your dad, it won’t hurt your siblings, and it won’t hurt the dog……..
YOU WILL HAVE TO LIVE WITH THIS……and have to face decisions due to YOUR OWN ACTIONS or Lack of action.
We have a meeting this week with ALL the important role playing folks at the school……He said to me; you know I don’t like confrontation…….
I said, BUMMER…..it’s time to MAN UP! You’ll be there and you’ll here where you have placed yourself……and you will listen!
If not……move on homey….get yourself a job, get yourself a place and good luck to ya!
I won’t enable your behavior!
I have a legal obligation to you, I am fulfilling my parental duty to you and society……you are NOT happy with ANYTHING I DO…..BUMMER….it’s NOT up to you!
It’s time to MAN UP!
Just look at it like a pregnancy……when couples find out they are pregnant……and unexpected or expected…..LIFE CHANGES……Oh shit….in 9 months I will have a new life, a new responsibity……
Well….I said……YOU WILL BE GIVING BIRTH TO YOU in 7 months! You turn 18 in 7 months……and you are so willfully ILL PREPARED for a NEW LIFE! I don’t understand how ONLY YOU can’t see this?
You won’t be ‘forced’ to go to school, you won’t have me providing food/shelter/clothing……..
SO WHAT ARE YOU PLANNING ON DOING BIG BOY?
So…….he was shocked….remained in shock……and I forced MY reality on him….
He went on telling me how overwhelmed he was and how he got himself into this place and how sorry he was that he didn’t help me and he didn’t realize what I had on my ‘plate’……I said, son XX….IT’s never too late to redirect yourself in a healthier direction!!!
I reminded him, I wanted him to graduate….I wanted him to make wiser choices for HIS future. Not hide and repress things like they were not there…..because he would regret these moves later…..I felt he needed to unravel his previous years of abuse and repression, thoughts and behaviors so he could allow them to stay behind him, dealt with and move forward……I reminded him, I want the best for him, we are on the same team!!!
I reminded him I would always be honest with him, and this is why I do this…..I can’t tell him GOOD JOB…..and play his game, I see the game…….He’s not 5.
I reminded him of a time that a grandparent promised him $20.00 if he would read a harry potter book…….and he PRETENDED he was reading it……(my son was never a reader, so I knew damn good and well he wasn’t going to read this 400 page book!) He came out of his room, all gleeful and joyous and announced he had just finished the book! He sat in his room, for a week, flagging about 70 pages a day…..like he had read them……went to great lengths to play the game…..Then when he was tired of playing, he called it finished, He called his g. mother and made the announcement……and she sent the $20.;00. I was PISSED! I knew he didn’t read it, he couldn’t answer any questions about it and couldn’t write a book report for school on it……BUT HE ACCOMPLISHED HIS GOAL!…the money!
At that time when I called bullshit on him…..he bounced back with ….you don’t trust me……you don’t believe in me…..all the guilt trips…..
So last night I reminded him of that situation…..(one of many)…..and told him…..He can’t pull the Harry potter scam to receive a diploma!
MAN UP DUDE! Life ain’t about a scam.
I told him, why don’t you allow yourself to ACHIEVE something…..EARN IT……and feel how that feels and let it all go into an avalanche of perpetual earned achievements……
It feels good to accomplish something you set out to do! AND DO IT FOR YOURSELF!!!
So we ended that completely BI-POLAR, Up and down, all over the board discussion with a family dinner and a movie.
I fell asleep during the movie, and he made sure he sat next to me……he kept saying….ya still with us mom……I would wake back up……at one point he put his hand out on the arm of my chair and held my hand……(This is my 17 year old!!)…..
I know he loves me, I know he feels loved by me……BUT SHIT……is he EVER going to get his act together?????
I hope so!
As long as there is a line of communications there…..I will remain hopeful!!!
My heart is with ya witsend!!!!
XXOO
EB
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Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 2:56pm
skylar says:
Witsend,
Was your husband home taking care of him most of the time when he was little, while you worked?
Your husband’s feelings may have been apparent to your son even as an infant. Children are so much more intuned to those things just as they are to language at that age. They are soaking up everything they will need to learn to survive.
His brain is set in the way it thinks but there is still a certain amount of flexibility. In fact, I would say that the P’s mind may be more flexible (like a child’s) than a normal person. That’s why they like to make up stories and take on different roles and actually believe their own lies.
If we could give them a story or role that appeals to them and lets them turn out to be the amazing hero that they imagine themselves to be, they might pick it up and run with it. I think though, that once they start selling drugs, it’s too late because there’s nothing easier than the fast buck of selling drugs.
My grandmother was a P. she would tell her boys to get out of the house and bring her money and get jobs. I don’t blame her too much because they were poor, but she was also abusive. Now my dad is a P, but he’s a hardworking P, because that’s what his mother ingrained in him: you are worthless unless you are bringing home money.
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Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 3:06pm
skylar says:
OMG, ERIN!
Will you be my mommy too?
Oh wait, I’m older than you. In that case, can I be your dog or cat?
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Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 3:12pm
amber says:
Wow EB!! You amaze me! You’re so stong! You’re so right. I think they are so paralyzed with fear to make CHOICES, that they’d rather not make them at all. And the only choices they are comfortable making are the ones that benefit them and only them in the long run. It is a game to them and the end always justifies the means in their mind. Doesn’t matter how you get it or who you hurt along the way as long as you’re satified. Keep on that boy of yours, with a mom like you, he may just stand a chance!!
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Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 3:25pm
ErinBrock says:
Thanks guys.
I so want him to succeed!
He’s the one that scares me now……he’s definately got parts of his father in him!
BUT….he’s still got ME in him too! And times like last night…..his ability to show love, compassion, empathy and ability to communicate reminds me of this!
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Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 3:38pm
witsend says:
skylar,
My husband rarely babysat while I worked. I only worked the weekends (every other) and Thursdays. His parents, (my MIL & FIL) babysat usually when I worked.
My husband had left (our home) EXACTLY one week prior to his suicide. He had just returned home from a funeral of a AA buddy of his. I am told that at this young mans funeral he had given a speech that had EVERY single person in the room in tears. (My husband was a very good public speaker.) Very chrismatic and articulate.
Everyone was supposidly in AWE of him it was that good. He spoke of sobriety and how it changed his life, his family life, and how it changed this young mans life. And how this young man had given his family the greatest gift he could have given them before he died, his sobriety. It was very TOUCHING. (all this in a dry drunk)
But after giving this touching speech he came home and
we talked a little bit about the funeral and I confronted him of my fears that he was going to drink. He denied, denied, denied, and he left.
His parents were out of town so that is where he was went to stay. That very day he left and went to his parents, he drank.
He called me and was drunk.
He continued to stay at his parents house through that week and asked if he could see our son sometime over the weekend. I expressed my concern about his drinking and we discussed it. I brought my son over for him to be able to spend a few hours with him on friday eve. I had no intention of leaving him there to spend the night. When I went to pick him up, my husband asked if he could spend the night. My husband tried to convince me that I would need someone to watch him in the morning anyways when I went to work.
He wasn’t drunk…. It seemed my son and my husband were enjoying their visit. I never imagined at the time that he would do anything to hurt his son. I made a call. A very bad call.
It was determined that my husband commited suicide late that friday night. And that my son woke up to this. And spent his ENTIRE day with this.
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Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 4:00pm
skylar says:
Witsend,
I don’t know how you cope. Here’s my cyber-shoulder.
(Hug)
I’m praying for you. Have faith that God has blessings in store for you which you couldn’t have imagined. Try to learn as much as you can from observing your son. This might be what He intends.
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 4:20pm
henry says:
Witsend – I think everybody has issues and problems, lot’s of questions and sometimes no answers. When I divorced, my sons were young. I still feel enormous guilt for becoming a part time father. I did have very good visitation rights and aways paid child support. My X wife and I lived a few miles apart and althought my x wife was a pain in the neck at time’s we did maintain a great mom and dad for our sons I have great guilt for being gay, my sons say it is no big issue but I know it has impacted their lives negatively. I have had lots of issues as you all know. Childhood into nowhood.
But I am to a point were I want to turn off the shoulds and coulds and what ifs. When I divorced and the boys were young, one time the youngest did something that reequired scolding and he said I couldnt get on to him because I wasnt the boss of him anymore…Well I popped him on the butt and said Oh yes I am your Dad and you will listen too me…I will never forget that he instantly startted drying and grabbed on too me so tight. I think he needed that reassurance that I was still his dad. But Witsend – I can blame my mom and dad for ruining me, screwing up my mind etc. But what the heck – I got to live now and unload so much information and questioning myself to death. My sons love me and we have good relationships now– but i will always feel like a failure if I live in the past…Witsend please tell me again how old your son is .
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Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 5:08pm
shabbychic says:
witsend, no, you nor anyone else could ever imagine that someone would do something like that to hurt their child. I send out my prayers and a hug to you also.
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Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 5:12pm
witsend says:
henry,
he is 16 soon to be 17.
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Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 5:23pm
witsend says:
Erin,
I think the differences between your son and my son are substancial.
One is that you seem to have moments when you can “reach” him. Even if these are RARE occurances. They do happen. I would find ALOT of hope in that.
You said that you know he loves you…. THIS is the most HOPFUL (and powerful) thing that you have.
If you can REASON with him even for one moment. That is a
positive thing. If you feel he loves you and you know he FEELS your love for him that is priceless.
If he can SEE your hardships with the bills or your past illness or ANYTHING such as this….The fact that he said he was sorry that he didn’t help you more. These are all GOOD signs.
Alot of kids, boys especially go through a period of showing anger and resentment when they are teenagers. To a degree alot of this is pretty normal stuff. Teenagers make some bad choices, THAT is normal. School, peers, parties, drugs, girls, they have alot of hard choices to make. My older son had a period of time when he went through this. He was angry about
mine and HIS fathers divorce. My Ex husband was not there for him much after our divorce. He went through a period of time when he was about 17 where he blamed me for this. It was hard but I could see the light at the end of the tunnel. He wasn’t LOST to me in his sea of anger. He was just angy and feeling that he had to blame someone. He still made other good choices in his life at the time. He was still learning “lessons” as he went through this period…..All the stuff that is SUPPOSE to happen.
I looked at the “big picture” of him and saw that all was going to be ok with him. This “thing” he was going through, it was temporary. A part of growing up.
I knew it wasn’t necessary to “defend” why I had divorced his father with him. This wasn’t the core of the issue, “why”. The issue was that my son was going through a phase where he felt that his life would have been “better” (financially, emotionally) with his father in IT. All his friends had “nicer” cars, alot more than he had. They had dads at their sporting events in the grandstands, or even COACHING, etc….I knew his dad wasn’t capable of meeting his sons needs if he was in his life or out of it. And I knew in time, he would see this for himself. I SHOULD not be the one to tell him this about his dad.
I told him that he WOULD understand as he got older. And HE does. He gets it now. He calls me to complain about his dad.
My younger son, I see no light at the end of the tunnel. I don’t claim to be a fortune teller…. I don’t know the future.
But the darkness of his anger, his hatred, I HAVE seen. The fact that no one can reach him. The shallowness of his “ties” with others, even his peers. The constant lying, manipulating, the entitelment, lack of reality, control, grandiosity, all of it….It doesn’t seem to even equal his young age. When I see these things in him somehow he seems much OLDER than his years. And yet in other ways he is SO vey immature.
In short it all doesn’t add up. Its different than being a defiant “I know it all” teenager. And the difference is he is so unreachable. Its like nothing “good” can touch him.
Generally, I am a pretty level headed person.
I know when I come here I am full of dismay. I might not sound like a level headed person…. I am all “over the place”. Because I don’t know what to do anymore. I have exhausted everything I DO know how to do.
But this is where I let it all out. My friends do not understand this. They can’t relate to any part of it.
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Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 6:40pm
ErinBrock says:
Wits:
I do see these things as very hopeful!
I do!
I get so frustrated!!!
I think you are doing a great job, you need a constant ‘venting’ place.
LF is it……
We can only write about a portion of our lives…..and it’s usually the negative parts…..
This is why I have fun….’teasing’ others, talking about rustoliuom lube, donuts, skillets and hot guys….it’s also a release!
your right…..if you shared every inch of your life with your ‘real’ friends, they would scatter……this is just how people are……no one seems to have the stamina…..they just don’t want to hear about it!
But here it’s different! We can share, we can be harsh, we can be soft, we can be loving, supportive and a shoulder!
We all need that in our lives!
I think of you often……I want you to know this!
You sound just fine and level headed to me…….don’t ever question yourself!!!!!!
XXOO
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Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 7:06pm
henry says:
Wit – I agree with EB – come here for support. It is good that you are aware that something is off with your youngest son. I feel overwhelmed and dismayed as to what to say too you. I think Ox is your best source of advice and comfort. Encourge him to join the military? sheesh let’s talk about skillet’s..
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Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 7:37pm
henry says:
wit – most of us here are talking about these kinds of pdo’s in the past tense, Your living with the enemy.
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Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 7:44pm
heavenbound says:
Wit
My oldest son is more stable and more loving and smarter than anyone I know, I really am blessed and my youngest is still yet to be seen…I see what appears to be love and concern but I’ve also seen no concern or feeling at times when I felt there should be and it scared me, now that I know his dad is a P and what that means, I worry but pray for the best and try to teach and love and do see signs…
I’m not saying it’s the same, dealing with it in your children must be awful and I can’t imagine and hope I don’t ever know what that is…but your posts have the vibe of stress and anxiety in and worries that I feel… in that I feel like I understand your feelings.
I just wanted you to know I’m thinking of you…love, hugs, and prayers, heavenbound
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Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 9:33pm
witsend says:
Amber,
I did see your post to me earler.
Much of what you say though adds to my dilema…Of trying to understand.
If I had burned my son with an iron, or beat him, or sent him away when he was young to live with someone else, or did anything that I could put my finger on now that could be considered abusive….I could/would understand where his hatred came from. I am sure the guilt of it alone would be more than I could live with.
My husbands mother (my MIL) is an N. So my husband (my sons father) was raised with this disorder. He was also adopted, she is not his bio mother. She has ALWAYS, at least since I have known her been very much in denial. I am talking of the “product” she raised, the adult son. He was an alcoholic. She denied it. He was a drug addict. She denied it. WHATEVER situation he was in…If he lost his job. she made excuses for it. It wasn’t because he missed days because he was drunk…It was because his boss was an ass hole. His first DUI. The cop was a jerk. You know….She had more excuses for him, than he himself did. And HE was the alcoholic. alcoholics are masters at this….excuses. Its part of the disease….
It is very difficult to look at your own child and admit and SEE that they have SOME BIG problems. I understand this. I am there. I think it would be much easier to be in denial about it.
My son tells alot of people that he has a terrible life here at home. Not just his friends but adults to.
Everyone that will listen. He has some people convinced that this is true. Granted these are people that never heard my side of the story or people that don’t even know me. BUT the fact remains, he’s telling his “story” and he has a captive audience. Some people are believing him.
GOD knows what he says to them. For all I know he could tell them that I beat him or abuse him. He did have someone willing to take him into their home when he was going to runaway. I have to assume that any adult that would be willing to take a 16 year old kid into their house and “harbor” a runaway must believe the kid is in trouble.
…..If a 16 year old kid came to me and said he HATED his mother and he couldn’t take living in the house with her anymore…..And he was convincing enough that I believed him. The HATE part, not so much the getting out of the house part. (alot of teens might say that)
I would have to think that any 16 year old kid that really hated his mother must have reason to….. In other words I WOULD be looking at the MOTHER with different eyes. (not the kid) What the hell did she do to him to make him feel this way? This kind of hatred doesn’t come out of nowhere….THAT IS WHAT you would think, logically. Isn’t it?
If a 16 yr old kid actually DID come to me and say this NOW I might question it ONLY BECAUSE of my own experience. But I have to honestly say without having experienced this first hand, I would most likely believe this kid must have a very legitimate reason. If I saw this hatred. He must come from a very bad home.
Did you question your X when he told you of his abuse as a child? Probably not to much. I’m sure your heart went out to him….It’s what any compasionate person would do. Feel bad for this kind of abuse.
If my son at 16 years old can convince people that his life here is so bad…..(and its working for him)
God ONLY knows what he will be able to “pull off” when he is an adult. He might have a hot iron story of his own. Or like Skylers Xp story that his mother drowned a bag of kittens (or something like that)
It ALL goes back to the same question. Nurture or Nature. And sometimes both.
Did your X lie about his childhood trama, or was his childhood life pure hell ?
What you described to me was pure hell. If that was his childhood truth, no wonder he is toxic.
My son wasn’t abused but he certainly did face a childhood trama. BUT he percieves his childhood here, that I am a terrible mother. So isn’t that PART of the COMPLEXITY of this whole disorder. When he leaves here he TAKES WITH him “his story”(however true or untrue this story may be)…..That is what he will share with the woman who falls in love with him…How terrible his childhood was.
It is also interesting to note that my sons story (as he tells it), does NOT include the most single tragic incident of HIS life, his fathers suicide? Why is that?
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Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 9:43pm
skylar says:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/019286212X
this book, the meme machine, looks good judging by the reviews. I haven’t read it yet, but seems to be about how memetics influence culture and the human conscience etc…
It might give us some insight into the P-brain.
(P-brain, LOL, no pun intended)
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Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 9:44pm
henry says:
I think everybody should walk outside at midnite and look at the moon and we will all smile at each other OK??
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Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 9:45pm
henry says:
BTW the moon is full tonight.
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Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 9:46pm
ErinBrock says:
I’m in Henry…..Tonight at midnight…..
Here’s smiling at you darling!!!
Can I howl too?
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Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 9:57pm
skylar says:
Witsend,
The way you describe your dilema, really underscores the root of the P-problem: their “story” and their undying belief in their story.
Something happened to them to make them fanatical evangalists about their own story. Even when they aren’t telling it, they are living their life by it. Everything they do is justified by their story. This story is their TRUTH.
Maybe your son won’t even talk about the trauma because then he’ll have no one to hate, since his father is already gone. That would ruin his story.
Have you ever asked him to express how he feels about his father and what his father did?
Part of the reason that I’m gravitating towards memetics as an answer is because I wonder if we can use memes to help them change their stories. If we can give them another TRUTH to believe in, maybe they won’t need to hate so much. We can give them something else to get fanatical and evangelical about. I hear that sometimes hardcore criminals “find religion”. Maybe that is a memetic transfer taking place.
I know that they’ll never be able to feel like we do, but maybe they can change their belief system to something bigger and outside of themselves.
I think that they are susceptible to memes because they are so envious (another word for memetic desire), but maybe the memes don’t “stick” very well and in a few days they are already envying something else. Or maybe I don’t know what the heck I’m talking about. I wish I did.
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Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 10:01pm
skylar says:
Henry, which time zone are you in?
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Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 10:02pm
heavenbound says:
I’m in too!
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Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 10:04pm
henry says:
central mountain time here it is 10:!9pm
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Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 10:18pm
ErinBrock says:
So we will all smile on HENRY”S time zone…..Central…..
Do I have that right…..
Because I’m in another time zone……
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Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 10:20pm
witsend says:
skylar,
THIS I think is really a key element to this disorder. “Their stories”.
And when I am here reading MOSTLY the stories of adult encountors wth an S/P/N and the subject comes of the S/P/Ns childhood, I always am AMAZED because every single one of them have horrific childhood abuse/trama/issues involved.
Among other things that I hear repeated over and over again is absent fathers (especially in males) or very abusive mothers. Or sometimes both.
Now I am of the belief that his disorder can be nurture, nature or combination of both.
I don’t think it is possible to take and entire group of people, I don’t care if your talking about alcoholics or S/P/N or any other group and say they all arrived where they are for the EXACT same reason. Although there will be lots of similarities
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 10:21pm
skylar says:
Witsend,
as it turns out, the kittens in the bag was real. Confirmed by the mother, but she said a boyfriend of her best friend did it.
When I asked my xP, he confirmed that too, but then said that she had TOLD the guy to do it.
I believe that because why the hell else would a grown man care about a little boy’s cats?
His mom on the other hand is a freak when it comes to pets.
She breeds little dogs like in a small scale puppy mill.
But anyway, maybe it’s possible that one incident created the tipping point. Your in-laws are already narcissists so they must’ve had some influence. (My xP had a P-grandpa too) It does seem like each P has his sad story of abuse. And most of them are confirmed.
But then many of us here at LF were abused and we aren’t P’s so I guess the temperment of the individual adds weight too
Then there is their undying, commitment to their sad perspective of persecution and abandonment, I think that is the final nail in the coffin.
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 10:29pm
henry says:
Heaven Bound that would be so cool if we could have a sincrenized Moon Smile…Wit I agree totally with you. Alot of arguments about sexuality being genetic or inviroment – nutute nature….I think my being gay is a combination of all the above..if I have to label myself I will say I am sexually dysfunctional with an attraction for the same sex. Emotionally challenged would describe me. I have even thot I might be a non-borderline with a touch of histrionic. So what about thaT MOON SMILE?
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 10:29pm
witsend says:
oops, hit post by mistake…continuing…..
, and often genetic component. There are also variables.
I used to go to “open” AA meetings. A recovering alcoholic gets up and tells his/her story. Most often the stories were very similar…Same story, different day, kinda thing….Often the similarities where amazing. (just like here on LF) Such a pattern these storys seemed to follow.
Once in awile you would hear a story that was different from the rest.
When people tell their stories of their childhood we are always drawn in because we can almost always relate to something.
Most of us didn’t have Bever Clevers lifestyle. Perfect parents.
But when it comes to P/S/N because lying is such a part of them, it is hard to judge what is factual and what is fiction.
You HAVE to consider the source. If they can smear their X wife/girlfriend after a divorce/breakup……Why is it that “their story” of their childhood is still so often believable to that same X wife/girlfriend? Knowing what they know now?
I ALSO DO believe that many S/P/Ns come from terribly ABUSIVE parents. Horrific childhoods. But not all of them. some of them have just been telling that “story” for so long it has become a part of them. And they BELIEVE it themselves just like they believe all the rest of their lies.
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 10:41pm
witsend says:
I am on EST. It is almost midnight…11:44
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 10:44pm
heavenbound says:
I’ll be there, it is definitely a cool idea the moon smile that is!
Henry you will always be a very specially sexually dysfunctional and emotionally challenged and non-borderline histrionic to me, if that’s what you are
Of course i’ve been known to have an attraction to the emotionally challenged so becareful please after everything she’s seen my mom would die if she had to face a gay son and a “fag hag” daughter
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 10:51pm
heavenbound says:
Hey wit is about to see midnight are we going with her time or henry’s?
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 10:53pm
henry says:
BOTH TIME ZONES THAT WAY NOBODY MISSES OUT!!! GO
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 10:55pm
skylar says:
Witsend,
I hope you don’t mind if I keep you on this discussion a bit longer because it is something that just intrigues the heck out of me.
You said that not all P’s come from an abusive family.
For many of us here on LF we didn’t even KNOW that we had been abused. it all felt so normal.
When I look at my P-little-sister, I can barely think of any abuse at all, she was the golden child, spoiled rotten.
But i do have one memory of my mother beating her and she was screaming bloody murder. It’s possible that one incident was more traumatizing than when I was beaten. (she’s a real screamer) Other than that, she got kissed and loved while the rest of us were ignored. But maybe she instinctively picked up on something else – like my parents’ narcissism, my dad’s emotional abuse of my mom, his misogyny, his abuse of his power over all of us.
At this point I think it’s a combination of what we experience, our temperment AND the way we CHOOSE to perceive it. That choice/perception is the story we tell ourselves to explain why things are the way they are. Which ironically enough is the definition of mythology/myths. Which all brings us back to Joseph Campbell. hmmmm…..I knew he had the answers.
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 11:01pm
skylar says:
Hey it’s overcast here but the moon peaked thru for a few seconds just long enough to smile with you Witsend.
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 11:03pm
witsend says:
DID you guys go??? OMG it is so cloudy here I couldn’t find the friggin moon! I’m smiling at the clouds.
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 11:03pm
ErinBrock says:
Skylar, heaven, henry, wits and all the ‘lurkers’ here for healing…….
My moon was so bright….I put on my shades…..
That means our future is so bright we all need to wear shades!!!
My smile was with you all…..did you hear me talking to you guys?
My face hurts now!
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 11:06pm
heavenbound says:
That was amazing to be looking at the same moon at the same time! I loved the feeling thanks henry for that! I’ve never done anything like that before, I was missing out on an awesome feeling…I love you all so very much!
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 11:07pm
witsend says:
skylar
I could talk about this particular thing as long as I can keep my eyes open.
Right now the PERCEPTION…..How a disordered individual percieves themselves, their situation, their childhood, seems KEY somehow to me to also understand the perpetual lies that they tell and BELIEVE.
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 11:08pm
ErinBrock says:
Henry…..what did you FLY to the damn moon…..where are you?
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 11:08pm
heavenbound says:
Erin, it sure felt like someone was talking!
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 11:08pm
henry says:
i HAVE A BRIGHT FULL MOON HERE AND i JUST LOOKED HEAVENBOUND UP TO THE SKYLAR AND SAW A SHOOTING STAR CALLED WITSEND~~~!!
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 11:09pm
ErinBrock says:
HEEENNNNRRRRYYYYYYYY…….Did the martians take you?
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 11:09pm
henry says:
NO DANGIT THEY DIDNT TAKE ME WISH THEY WOULD THO!~~!
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 11:10pm
ErinBrock says:
Heaven~ Yeah, it was me….it’s hard to shut me up!
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 11:10pm
heavenbound says:
We already have taken you, henry! and we intend to keep you forever
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 11:12pm
heavenbound says:
No Erin, you’re great…don’t ever change!
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 11:13pm
henry says:
AH THATS SWEET eRIN – I AM GONNA STAY AROUND ~!
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 11:14pm
heavenbound says:
well except growing and learning, you know what I mean!
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 11:14pm
skylar says:
Good one Henry!
I felt you all I think, because I’m crying now.
maybe it’s just the sad thoughts of the P.
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 11:14pm
henry says:
AND HEAVENBOUND i AM SO GLAD YOU ARE HERE -
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 11:15pm
heavenbound says:
Skylar, oh no not the p, we all connected! It is tear worthy!
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 11:16pm
witsend says:
Hello where did everybody go? Are you all moon walking?
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 11:18pm
skylar says:
Hi guys,
how many of you are familiar with this poem?
DESIDERATA
Go placidly amid the noise and the haste,
and remember what peace there may be in silence.
As far as possible, without surrender,
be on good terms with all persons.
Speak your truth quietly and clearly;
and listen to others,
even to the dull and the ignorant;
they too have their story.
Avoid loud and aggressive persons;
they are vexatious to the spirit.
If you compare yourself with others,
you may become vain or bitter,
for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.
Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans.
Keep interested in your own career, however humble;
it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.
Exercise caution in your business affairs,
for the world is full of trickery.
But let this not blind you to what virtue there is;
many persons strive for high ideals,
and everywhere life is full of heroism.
Be yourself. Especially do not feign affection.
Neither be cynical about love,
for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment,
it is as perennial as the grass.
Take kindly the counsel of the years,
gracefully surrendering the things of youth.
Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune.
But do not distress yourself with dark imaginings.
Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness.
Beyond a wholesome discipline,
be gentle with yourself.
You are a child of the universe
no less than the trees and the stars;
you have a right to be here.
And whether or not it is clear to you,
no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.
Therefore be at peace with God,
whatever you conceive Him to be.
And whatever your labors and aspirations,
in the noisy confusion of life,
keep peace in your soul.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams,
it is still a beautiful world.
Be cheerful. Strive to be happy.
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 11:18pm
ErinBrock says:
No Henry…..we are making plans for you……heavens on to something……
I think you should join me at the parents for the holidays….I can introduce them to my new, donut toting, vibrating skillet weilding, sexually healing, moon watching, gay boyfriend…..and we can gift them with Godiva chocolates that we will sneak out and eat all of them the first night, as we laugh and howl at the moon!!!!!
My extremely opinionated father may find you charming and become your best friend…..(as long as you don’t have tatoos)
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 11:18pm
henry says:
CYBER SPACE CAN BE A WONDERFUL PLACE
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 11:19pm
witsend says:
skylar,
I have talked to my son many times over the years about his dad and “age appropriate” about the actual suicide. In other words we didn’t talk about the suicide aspect of his death when he was 4, but later we did.
The most recent discussion we had was I was trying to draw out of him how HE felt about it? About that his dad took his life but mostly how he felt about NOT having a dad in his life.
In more recent years he has kind of a “pat” answer. It isn’t easy to get him to really open up about it. I have never seen him cry about it or show any emotion about it. Other than when he was a small child.
My question to him: “How does it make you feel when growing up you didn’t have a dad at your baseball games?
his pat answer goes something like this: “I don’t remember my dad, so its hard for me to miss something, I never had”
I could ask a different question but the answer would be pretty much the same.
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 11:20pm
henry says:
iT’S A DATE ERIN – AND NO TATTOO’S – i THOT SERIOUSLY ABOUT GETTING ONE THO – AN ARM BAND THAT SAYS ‘THE TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE – BUT FIRST IT WILL PISS YOU OFF’ BUT OXY SKEERED ME WITH THREATS OF HEPATITIS AND SKILLET BOINKING…..
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 11:22pm
witsend says:
I’m sorry to send my last above post now…I had this minimized before we went to the moon smile from when skylar asked about this awile ago.
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 11:24pm
heavenbound says:
NO ERIN! he’s my gay boyfriend, please don’t take him from me!?!
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 11:25pm
ErinBrock says:
I’m sure OXY would give you permission if you ONLY did it to PISS OFF MY FATHER!!!
Oh, how PRICELESS this date will be!
I’ll bring the Godiva’s….you just bring your handsome self, with good stories of previous lovers to share over turkey and stuffing!
I love you darling!!!!!
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 11:28pm
henry says:
Dont be sorry witsend
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 11:28pm
witsend says:
henry,
everyones fighting over you! I want you to. I have always wanted a gay man for a best friend. And that is the truth.
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 11:29pm
heavenbound says:
Wow Skylar, that is a great poem, i’m not familiar with it but i will be, Thanx
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 11:29pm
skylar says:
Witsend,
“…something I never had.” could be revealing how he feels.
But even that sounds like part of his poor me mythology.
When I first met the P, I was dating various guys including a really nice guy named matt. We were all very young (except the P who was 28) and all put on a bravado front. They all knew who I was dating and they all acted like or actually were dating other girls and we all acted like we didn’t care. But I actually liked matt and matt warned me about the P. He said, “that guy doesn’t have a nice thing to say about anyone. All the rest of us musicians support and encourage each other but that guy just puts everyone down. He only talks about how great he is.” Matt also gave me a poster with the desiderata on it. I didn’t understand it very well. I was only 17.
If you could find a poster of the desiderata and give it to your son, I wonder if it would affect him in any way?
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 11:31pm
henry says:
There is enuff of me to go around – all my really good friends are women…
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 11:31pm
witsend says:
henry,
Are you blushing yet?
Truth is tattoos hurt. I have two tiny ones.
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 11:32pm
ErinBrock says:
Heaven:
Let’s talk girl…..
Okay….maybe we can ALL start off at my parents home……we can be the new ‘alternative’ couple/triples…..(what do you call us?)
I always said, after the S…..I’m going to be a celebate lesbian……
So….that could be WAY MORE BANG FOR THE BUCK….and maybe even put em right into their grave…….EB and her gay lover along with her lesbian lover……HOME FOR THE HOLIDAYS?!!!!!
HI MOM, HI DAD…..boy has my life changed since the S!!!!!
Oh, yes….I”M PREGERS….your gonna have more G.Children to warp!!!!! Are you not thrilled?
Oh, mom…….(we can say in unison) SUCH AS LIFE!!!! (AS she is famous for saying)
Then, we could mosey on to your moms place and we would have perfected our roles…….
Whatdaya all think?
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 11:33pm
witsend says:
skylar,
What is the desiderata?
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 11:33pm
heavenbound says:
it sounds PERFECT!!! However I warn you my mom will just say Well good Lord, what’s the world coming to? But here is the great part….My DAD!!! Yes I’m definitely in!!!
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 11:38pm
shabbychic says:
EB, I used your line when I went over to the neighbor’s for a little Halloween moment… when they asked me “well, what are you?” I said “I’m just a crazy bitch!” AND I GOT A GOOD LAUGH! Har har har. Thanks! No prep needed!
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 11:43pm
skylar says:
Sorry to hog witsend’s attention peeps.
I’m on a roll.
Glad you liked that poem, Heaven, it really gets to me too.
It’s so appropriate for us here at LF.
“Exercise caution in your business affairs,
for the world is full of trickery.”
but it should have warned us against trickery in love!
Not that I would’ve listened..
Henry, my last best friend was a gay guy but he turned out to be a P. I’ll need a new gay best friend, so how do we compete for you?
Is there a contest? a game? do we throw dice?
Oh I just saw EB’s comments, YES! I’ve been thinking about becoming a lesbian tooo!! I just need to figure out how to like women in bed. Can I get some hormone shots or hypnotism or something? Or maybe some serious drugs from EB’s exP will do the trick. LOL. Then I’ll be bi! Wait… does that make me a P?
Witsend, the Desiderata is the poem I just posted up above.
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 11:44pm
witsend says:
Skylar,
BUT see this is what I don’t understand. ANYONE in their right mind would feel for a kid who’s father commited suicide. He HAS got a “poor me” story that is REAL. He doesn’t have to make any up.
If he had come to me when he was 12 years old (or any age) for that matter and told me that he HATED his father for doing what he did…..I certainly would understand that. Or if he said he was angry at his dad for this. UNDERSTANDABLE.
Anger is a huge issue suicide survivors deal with.
Personally sometimes I believe he has totaly blocked out that this ever happened. It is buried so deep within him…He knows the “story” of it. But the story belongs to others, not him. Maybe he hates me because it is my story? Maybe I am a constant reminder of this terrible thing that he can’t fathom?
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 11:52pm
ErinBrock says:
Sky… What is the point in being a lesbian if we are celebate?
That was my point…..so at this point I am whatever I WANT TO BE!!!!
I choose to be….at the holidays…..a celebate lesbian! YEP, that’s it!!!!!
Shabby: YOU ALWAYS MAKE ME LAUGH!!!!!
Heaven: WHATEVER mission we need to accomplish WE WILL!!!!
And the bigger the ORGY the better….but we may need more GODIVA”S!!!
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 11:52pm
ErinBrock says:
MOON SMILE ALERT:
It’s almost another time zone midnight…….
ARE WE SMILING AGAIN?
Get the shades out troops!
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 11:53pm
witsend says:
skylar,
sorry its late…I read the poem but the title didn’t register.
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 11:54pm
heavenbound says:
I’m in so don’t forget me!
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 11:55pm
ErinBrock says:
OXY, OXY. ….I saw you lurking on another thread….You in on our MOON SMILE??????
Heaven……See ya on the moon L. girlfriend…..
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 11:56pm
shabbychic says:
I’d like to attend the Thanksgiving festivies as the androgynous boygirlfriend.
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 11:57pm
ErinBrock says:
MOON SMILE COUNTDOWN>>>>>>
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 11:57pm
shabbychic says:
Cool, I’m going outside.
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 11:58pm
ErinBrock says:
WHO”S GOING OUT TO SMILE AT THE MOON AT MIDNIGHT IN @ MINUTES?
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 11:58pm
henry says:
witsend – the hunky landscaper guy I have mentioned on here is a P..and his father ( a doctor ) comitted suicide when hunky was 19 – just a few days after Hunky told his Dad he was gay…hunky says it really didnt effect him that much – i beg to differ- but just imagine having to live with THAT~~!! your father comitting suicide because your gay~~!! now theirs some baggage..!
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 31 October 2009 @ 11:59pm
henry says:
HEY I got two smiles out if ya tonite
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 12:02am
skylar says:
that was great guys, I sent a prayer out for each of you.
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 12:03am
witsend says:
Erin,
I was out there and was ABLE to find the moon this time. It was better on Henrys time than my time!
Was it good for you to? LOL.
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 12:03am
witsend says:
It was pretty cool. I got more out of it the second time because I could actually see the moon. First time to much cloud cover. So whoever suggested doing it twice….It was a good idea.
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 12:05am
heavenbound says:
It was great, Thanx Skylar for the prayer, I sent one for everyone too!! So we got a prayer in there for you as well skylar!
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 12:06am
skylar says:
Erin, you’re right, I don’t want to be a lesbian, but the truth is, before I knew what the P was, I actually entertained the idea in my mind. Before I met the P, I loved all men. During the time with the P, I became a man hater. Sad huh? Well my FWB is helping me rebuild my faith in men and Henry, thanks for helping me rebuild my faith in gay men. My gay p-friend was a closet case.
Also, I don’t hate men because the person who first told me about P’s was a man I met in a sushi bar. He saved my life. Ever since I left the xP God has sent so many wonderful men and women to assist me and hold my hand. I’m not as wonderful as any of them are so I feel really blessed.
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 12:09am
henry says:
oh that was great thanx ladies for my hallow weenie moonsmile – And btw when I told my son I was gay he said “thats ok Dad – I am a lesbian”
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 12:09am
OxDrover says:
Okay guys, you are really getting out of line now! LOL
Son D and I came back from the auction about 11 pl.m. and as we drove into the gate at the farm, the almost full moon was smiling down on us and we could actually see the stars for the first time in weeks! Even if it hasn’t been raining, there were so many clouds we were robbed of the night sky, which he and I both love. We just sat there on the drive way by the runway and leaned out heads out the truck windows to see the moon and stars.
On the way up to the auction this afternoon about 3, the sun was shining and the fall colors were really pretty. Not all the leaves have fallen yet, so we enjoyed that and it lifted our spirits.
Being the end of the month and the 5th month in the month, there wasn’t much of a crowd there so things went CHEAP and we bought a bunch of stuff for NADA nearly which makes my stingy little heart flutter! I love a bargain, plus it was stuff we could use or resell…I am taking a page out of Witsends reselling antiques…it was fun anyway.
I think I am gonna go to bed, I am really tired from yesterday’s school program and from tonight at the auction, so you guys go on with your hootenanny and moon shine, or whatever it is that you are smoking or drinking—I’m gonna get some beauty rest and hope I look and feel better in the morning….getting old sucks! Bah humbug! LOL ROTFLMAO Have a good night you guys! (((hugs))))
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 12:09am
ErinBrock says:
It was FAB…..i feel like a cigarette now! (JK!) THANKS!
I spoke to all of you…..and it was quite a connecting experience! Kinda like falling asleep on the phone with your high school boyfriend….(well…..not mine)…but you know…..
Hens….you always get smiles out of me darling!
I’m going to share you with whomever you want to be shared with…..because I’m into ‘open’ relationships and doing what makes others happy! You especially!
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 12:10am
skylar says:
Henry, LOL, that’s hilarious.
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 12:11am
heavenbound says:
Well, I have to say goodnight everyone, I probably won’t get to sleep but if I don’t try I’ll feel awful about it come day. Thanks for a wonderful night, I needed it soooo much! Love, hugs, and prayers, heavenbound
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 12:16am
henry says:
sweet dreams heaven bound
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 12:17am
skylar says:
An LF thanksgiving, wouldn’t that be great?
all of us chicks fighting over Henry?
If we start a non-profit for victims of sociopaths, then donate to the cause, then the cause pays for airline tickets and lodging….because we are all victims… isn’t that a tax-deductable charitable donation?
oh, no, I’m a P!
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 12:17am
skylar says:
gnite heaven
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 12:18am
witsend says:
henry,
You know I am of the belief that when someone takes there own life it wasn’t ONE single thing that puts them over the top. Its an accumulation of a lifetime.
Oxy Analogy…Its like the empty glass that has a leaky faucet above it….Drip, drip, drip….SLowly the glass fills up with water over time. Then that ONe last drip and the glass overfills over the top.
I don’t think any one person should ever carry that burden that they were responsible for a person taking their life.
Sometimes when very young people commit suicide, it can be from a single event in their lives that they deemed to impossible to deal with. However most adults have enough life experience to know that whatever problem we feel unsolvable today another problem will present itself tomorrow. Or solve itself tomorrow.
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 12:18am
ErinBrock says:
Dang OXY……….
Bah humbug is right! You just got your knickers in a bunch because you read I was taking my new gay boyfriend to my parents for the holidays and NOT your SON! Ya know…..he is welcome too! We are building steam here….
We aren’t moonshining, we aren’t drinking, and it was sooooo good for me…..it only made me want to smoke…..
We are bonding!!!
CRANKY!!!!
That’s the last time I invite you to join us in a MOON SMILE….
Your mind is in the gutter!!!!
Your excused…..it must be the hormonal pregnancy thing going on with you!!!
(but I still love you!!)
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 12:20am
witsend says:
I think I am sleep bound to…Its 1:22
Good night everyone. Thanks for the shared smile
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 12:23am
ErinBrock says:
Heaven…..good night sweetie…..
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 12:23am
ErinBrock says:
Good night Witsend……sleep tight……
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 12:24am
skylar says:
gnite witsend. love and hugs to you and to your son.
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 12:25am
skylar says:
Erin,
speak for your -*hickup* – slef, IAM drinkun.
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 12:27am
henry says:
yes Witsend you are right..I often think of my sister and the tormented life she lived – I wouldnt wish her back to live the same life – her glass was full – i have never ever been angry at her.
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 12:27am
ErinBrock says:
Henry:
““thats ok Dad – I am a lesbian”
I LOVE YOUR SON!!!!!!!!
That CRACKED ME UP!!!!
I will never forget that one…..I love it! Your son is so cool….how old was he?
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 12:33am
henry says:
if yall ever have a minute google Sam Harris and find his song Scotch and Soda —
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 12:34am
henry says:
he was 14 but he had known long before I told him..
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 12:36am
skylar says:
all,
I want to tell you something amazing – I feel so much healthier since I left the P.
I know for a fact that he was poisoning me all these years. The pain in my muscles began to disapate within one week. almost 6 months later I have virtually no pain left.
for 20 years I spent 24/7 managing my pain with mangesium, cq10, carnitine, Hmb and thyroid meds. All of these supplement increase the mitochondrial metabolism thereby getting rid of waste quicker. Diarhea from the MASSIVE quantities of magnesium also made the pain diminish.
Suddenly, when I left him, he took all the food from the fridge and took it to the dump, not just the garbage can. I feel almost as good as I did when I was 20 years old now. For over 20 years I have spent all my time managing pain and fatigue. the only reason I didn’t kill myself was because I’m a perpetual optimist who thinks that she can solve any problem. Yes, the pain was that bad, I could hardly think.
Eachday I thought the next day the answer would arrive. I researched for over 20 years for answers to my pain and the pain just disappeared when I stopped eating food in my house.
Now I wish I could understand how I have empathy for that thing.
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 12:38am
ErinBrock says:
14 and came up with that response…….I LOVE HIM EVEN MORE!!!!!
Im heading over to find scotch and soda….I’ll be back….
Skylar…..ya better stop now….oxy’s blaming me!!!!
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 12:39am
skylar says:
OMG! Henry! what a stud! I Have first dibs!!!!!
Get away Erin, I know you’ll try to take him!
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 12:40am
henry says:
skylar he may very well of been poisening you…but dont forget what stress and mental fatigue can do too us..McKenzie Phillips walked with a cane because of her pain – but after she forgave her self and healed herself she didnt need the cane – I am positive my life was at the edge of a cliff a year and a half ago – most of my back and hip pain is gone now. But anyway I am so glad you are healthier – but yes He prolly was poisening your body and mind..
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 12:45am
shabbychic says:
skylar that is amazing, what was that sick SOB doing to you? What was he putting in the food? i’m thrilled for you that you are feeling so good now!!!
did anyone see my comment?… I’m going to the party as a he/she.
why is everyone going to bed? we gain an hour tonight, i hope they remembered to turn their clocks back an hour! i’ve decided it’s only 9:45pm here.
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 12:48am
skylar says:
henry, sc,
I will confess, when I was 17 I put some sleeping pills on my strawberries because he told me he couldn’t sleep. I knew he had an envious nature and would take my food RIGHT OUT OF MY HAND and eat it. and he did. As soon as he woke up I told him that I had slipped him a bit of sleeping pills.
well that was a HUGE narcissistic injury. If you know how they perceive themselves to be the smartest and most diabolical creatures to slither on the earth, it must have killed him to know that a little girl could trick him so easily. could see thru him so quickly that she would not even need to offer the strawberries to him. all i had to do was hold a strawberry to my lips and he grabbed my wrist and forced my hand to his mouth and swallowed the whole thing.
I have been paying for my act of “kindness” for 25 years. He determined to poison me because I drugged him first.
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 12:53am
henry says:
hi shabby welcome to our hollowweenie moonsmile lesbian PARTY~~
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 12:53am
henry says:
OMG skylar~! your a pistol~!
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 12:55am
shabbychic says:
I’m there, baby!
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 12:56am
shabbychic says:
skylar, you’re a pretty smart cookie, even then!!! It must have really pissed him off… you being so smart.
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 12:58am
skylar says:
SC, I saw your comment but I thought you were trying to one up my lesbian story.
That would be great if we could do the holidays together. We could fly from one parental home to the next, scaring the crap out of our aging parents with our stories of bisexual escapades! Not really. :p
I have no idea what he poisoned me with, but the man is the most audacious and disgusting thing to crawl on the earth. I really can’t believe that I’m so pitiful as to have sympathy for him, but yeah, i occasioally do.
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 12:59am
Isabell says:
holloweenie moonsmile lesbian party? Where am I?
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 1:00am
skylar says:
thanks guys for telling my I’m smart, it feels nice but smart would have included emotional intelligence: RUN you idiot he’s a P!
Oh well, I’ll take whatever the universe has to offer.
I took my sleeping pill and have church tomorrow.
All my kisses and hugs and love to you. gnite.
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 1:03am
shabbychic says:
I don’t think anybody is going to be able to one up you!!!
I still have sympathy for the S that I was f*cked over by. He’s the one that needs a liver transplant. I remember when you said he was after my liver!!!
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 1:06am
ErinBrock says:
OMG…..
I’m listening to Scotch and Soda…….AND THE PHONE RINGS!
I try to mute it and I fumble when I see the number……..
Holy shit….howly shit….IT WAS THE S! Calling from his new ‘bros’ #!
Okay…..I feel the anxiety hitting hard!
I NOW know what he’s up too……there is FOR SURE something buried in my yard.
He had a friend call me today again…..earlier….I played along….the guy said he was in town and wanted to get together…..I said NO….I was going out of town for the night……
He drove by, saw a light on and freaked out….called the S and he called me at home….forgetting to block the number and I answered with a giggle, like I had company here…..I told the friend earlier I had a boyfriend I had been with for some time and he was a wonderful guy and it’s so nice to be in love…..and be treated with respect!!!!
I’m sure he is looking to have this guy come over and dig up the $$$ in my yard……NOW…..for reals…..I;ve got to find it!!!
Winter is coming and with my out of town comment……it would have been an oportune time to come over. He is afraid the house will be lost in foreclosure and he wants SOMETHING on this property!!!!
I know this number that he called from, through recon…..that is why I answered…..to see WTF, and if he would talk…..
he doesn’t even know I forward my phones to the cell when I leave, so just because I answer….doesn’t mean I am at home!!!!!
NOW….I’ve got to do a set up.
He knows I’m a night owl and stay up most of the night…..so I will leave my office lights on all night for the next few months…..
Hopefully this guy will call again and I will tell him, I;m out of town again……and do a set up, 1000W lights ready to flood and cameras ready for action…….I will even hide in my yard with a ‘crew’….and they will lead me right to where the money is hidden……..
Okay…..I need to give this more thought…….
I KNOW HIS GIG……fucker……he tries to play me for a fool…..Ha REVERSE CONTROL NOW FUCKER!!!!!!
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 1:13am
henry says:
Erin I told you too listen too scotch and soda – not drink it~! Well if I was closer I would bring my metal detector and help you dig up that fortune meanwhile you be careful~! Good nite all it is pumpkin time for me gnite..
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 1:19am
ErinBrock says:
ISABELE:
Sorry if we scared you…..it’s halloween and a full moon….we all are having our fun!
Do you need to talk? I’m here. and I think others are too…..my kids are away and I will be on YARD WATCH tonight……
the security lights are on and the the cameras recording…..He doesn’t know I installed more cameras and more sensor lights……
You all wait…..when I find where that mONEY is hidden…..JUST WAIT!!!
I have been 100% acurate with my ‘decoding’ what he warns me of……of all his actions since our separation……
I will find that money…….when it’s time!!!
But….i’m here, not drinking…sober as a donkey…or whatever…..I did eat some ice cream though…..
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 1:22am
Isabell says:
Erin..
Have you thought of comedy? You are funny!!!!
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 1:26am
ErinBrock says:
Henry:
He called as I was enjoying the song….thinking of the holidays and smiling….then KABOOM!
I picked up the phone and i’m sure it sounded like I was having a party, because I am so close to the speakers, and I said to my ‘pretend’ boyfriend, honey…..don’t, no Ha, ha, not now…..we’ll do that in a minute…..yes it does look yummy…..ha ha giggle giggle….
I am sure….without a doubt…..this is what he is fishing for…..have no doubt!!!!
This friend earier today is another rico soave dude…..trying to be my ‘best friend’….wtf? Making a point of saying the S and he NEVER had anything in common…..that WE were friends???? WTF??????? HE WAS THE S”S FRIEND!!!!!!
It didn’t add up months ago when he first called, nor a few weeks ago when he called, and he wants me to hang with his mother……too??????? NOT HIS WIFE AND NEWBORN……and he is NOT coming on to me either……just trying to portray me as his long lost friend? WHAT A CON…..
I’m gonna have to con a con!!!!!!!!
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 1:28am
ErinBrock says:
ISABELL…..I’m being totally serious!!!!
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 1:29am
ErinBrock says:
Most of the time…..but the ex tonight….that part is serious!!!
We do have to laugh at everything, even me!!!!!
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 1:31am
Isabell says:
Erin,
My ex’s girlfriend, now wife, came to my house with flowers, pretending she has just run into my ex, and he told her of our separation. She wanted to offer me support, as she knew how difficult it is for single moms.
WTF? Is right.
She claimed she was my ex’s best friend, and I knew nothing of her. Then she claimed he was a liar and couldn’t be trusted, and I should move on with my life. She showed up and claimed he was seeing one of her best friends…
Because she, too, is a N/S…her pathology needs to announce how she’s going to screw you over in smoke screened messages.
Ya get where this going..
That FREAK trying to be your friend is TROUBLE!!!!
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 1:39am
ErinBrock says:
Okay….mind racing here……
It would be buried where no sprinklers hit…….and in an area where it’s visable (someone lurking) and close to the house……this is why he needs me gone!!!!
If it was out away from the house, it would be pitch dark and anyone could come at any time and dig whatever they wanted……
BUT……he is aware of the old sensor lights and where they shine….and where I had the OLD cameras pointed and they didn’t record….I installed them to watch the kids in the driveway…..alls changed now…..new lights, new recording cameras…..
Funny thing……NONE of the kids got calls tonight….this is even more confirmation of what I have ‘decoded’…….He used to call one or more of the kids and just ‘hear’ their voices……
NONE received calls tonight!
And I KNOW THIS NUMBER!
I think I am breaking the code here….I think I need to do a set up! Counter control……
I have time to make my plan…….I’m sure it will be next weekend he will call (the friend
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 1:42am
Isabell says:
The X/N/S/P had the kids today. It’s always disturbing. Fortunately, today, there wasn’t any drama. Except….
He’s worming his way back. He’s paid for expensive gear for our son’s Tae Kwon Do. He’s throwing money at the kids, offering cash and spending money. He’s not paying me anything in support. We are below the poverty level, now. and I’m struggling to find a job.
When he drops them off, he’s visiting with my (once our) neighbors, after a 4.5 year absence. I’m freakin out!!!!!
I know his game. I know how he wins people over.
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 1:45am
ErinBrock says:
Oh, yes…..I called the DEA the moment he first contacted me…..
Don’t think I am being swayed and that desparate for a friend……..
I have NOTHING to do with anyone that even MAY know him…..
I’m sure the deal is sweet for him if he digs up the money…….something he would certainly be interested in..
I have him on tape talking to the ex months back…..and he has told me over and over it’s been years…..since they spoke…..
There is something going on, and I think I know!!!!
HA!
You wait….One day I will come here and say…..HA ……I FOUND IT!!!!!!!!!!!
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 1:47am
Isabell says:
Erin,
YOU know better then any the codes. When I decode, I’ve been 100% accurate. Trust what you KNOW to be true.
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 1:48am
Isabell says:
Erin,
I must have missed something earlier. Why do you think your ex has buried money in your yard?
And, my ex actually put this in a declaration that I have accused him of burying money in our yard… which I never even thought about him doing such, as he’s a lock and key man, and a safe would be where I’d think he’d hide money.
Odd that he’s accused me of thinking this, and you suspect it has been done.
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 1:51am
ErinBrock says:
get tight with the neighbors…..offer to watch their cat or whatever when they go away……inform thm of your troubles with the ex…..not everything, but enough, plant the seeds, so when he plants them…..they will look at him how he wants them to look at YOU! COUNTER CONTROL my dear!!!!
You can’t do anything about him spending money on the kids….
flowers from the girlfriend……Yeah….OKAY!!!!
I have told everyone….(Even this MY fRIEND dude) do not call me….I’m not interested in remaining or beginning a friendship with anyone that has to do with him…….there were others a bit less spineless that kept calling trying to lure me….and I unloaded on them…….2 I threatened legal action with…….but this guy is really rico soave…..and the ex would have no doubt he woud be the one for me to be swayed by…..OH
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 1:53am
Isabell says:
I told the girlfriend (now wife) to leave me and my kids alone.
Without a lot of effort, the court has told my ex, he can’t bring our kids around his new family.
I don’t mind him spending money on the kids. They deserve it. It’s the fact that he’s drained me dry, withholding court ordered funds, and is trying to soften their anger at him with the spending, when I can’t even take them out to dinner, because money is so tight. He’s manipulating them.
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Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 1:59am
ErinBrock says:
Isabelle:
The S is a drug dealer, I found out through the kids…..took the kids to a drug house and spent a week teaching them the ‘ropes’…..this precipitated my separation……then I got sick (cancer yada, yada)….he came back to be the ‘hero’, and I was so sick I was hostage…..
When I finally got him out, he would come around and ‘water’ the yard by hand…..all my friends thought this was really really weird behaviors….me too, but I thought it was JUST (ha) stalking…..
After I got him gone for good……he was never able to come back around…..legally….I had an extended order of protection for 2 years and an additional harassment and stalking order…..
In my divorce I received everything….during the divorce I retained posession of everything and he was excluded from anything or anyone that had anythign to do with me, business and kids….
It was 2 STAY THE FUCK AWAY FROM HER ORDERS!!!!! Each time he violated, I reported…..everytime……SO HE KNOWS I MEAN BUSINESS!!!!!
He has a warrant in my town…..and he knows the cops are fully aware of his crap…..just not able to catch him with the goods…..
I laugh because….he said in court one time…..SHE CAN GET ANYONE TO DO ANTHING SHE WANTS! Meaning the law…..
Well…..yeah, I am a citizen with rights….he just forgot to mention what I was reporting and they were following up on…..The judge corrected him with a laugh….saying even SHE couldn’t get the cops to do whatever she wanted….so if the cops were looking at him…..they had a reason!!!!!
But,……In disecting my whole life….28 years with the ass…..He had made comments about burying things……
I recalled many, many comments such as this that i dismissed, because we too had a safe……
He accused me years ago of stealing a 10K ring and other valuable items from HIM???? I was mortified and asked WHY they were NOT in the safe? Eventually, years later, it came out he had buried them…..and forgot ???? where he buried them>….
It’s a pattern with him…….
This man would NEVER forget anything to do with MONEY!!!! NEVER…..ever, ever, ever…..
He would dig up the world to find something he lost!!!!!!
So this is where it all comes together….make any sense to ya…..I may be rameling…..????
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 2:05am
Isabell says:
counter control?
I tend to go into hiding. I have always been an authentic person. When I connect, it’s real, and sincere, or I can’t do it.
My neighbors have been through another couple in our neighborhood, one an N, and the other an N/S competing for the neighborhood’s loyalty.
The neighbors now believe they are being worked.
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 2:05am
Isabell says:
Start digging sistah. I’m sure you have decoded correctly.
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 2:10am
ErinBrock says:
NO DOUBT!!!!
When i get out the shovel…..it will be with complete accuracy……
But I’m thinking It may be easier to just do the (YES) counter control set up……
Wait for the next call…..oh, sorry, I would LOVE to get together with you…..but I’m heading out again for the weekend with my (pretend) loverboy!!! He’s giggle, giggle, so wonderful to me, we are going to the wine country or the city for a romantic weekend……
THEN, wait stealthily………that night, guarenteed…….
With the flood lights, camera and catch my NEW BEST FRIEND from long ago (WTF) in my yard with the shovel……stack my house with my ‘agents’ toting million watt lights inside at every window…..alarms in the yard…..and when they go off…..BOOM…..thanks homey for showing me where to dig!!!!
Now get the fuck off my property, and BTW….I’ve already called the police, so ya better hurry!!!!!!!!!
Oh, I can hear the stories of what a crazy bitch I am…….HA!!!! DUDE….your so lucky to be rid of her…..dude she’s crazy!!!!
That’s great your neighbors are already on to the S’s campaign…..so you should be okay…..may be time for a block party!!!
Can you do a DA non payment of child support report? I would follow through legally……..
THIS Saved my ass all along…..report any and ALL of it!!!!
WHY go into hiding…..I figure I hid for 28 years……NOT NOW~!!!!!! NO WAY JOSE!!!!!
He’s gonna have to kill me to shut me up!!!!! And if I can beat cancer and him……my balls have way more testosterone and FUCK HIM!!!!
I am out to show my kids, I will NOT live in fear, and I AM NOT afraid to stand up for what is right……
He is a con, a drug dealer, a thief and everything else that lives with pond scum…….
SO YES>>>>>>COUNTER CONTROL>……It works!
It’s about knowing your S! It’s about knowing when to turn it off…..It’s about being authentic to YOURSELF!!!!!!
He made the offer…..its him or me……WELL …..IT”S ME!!!
NEVER HIDE!!!!! NEVER!!!!
It doesn’t mean we need to fight every battle, but we should at least take notes on every battle…..so we know the enemy!!!!
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 2:23am
ErinBrock says:
You know….I have had 3 hours to think about this……more will come…..
I remember a strange hole that was very large under a tree……I asked him about it and he said, maybe a fox nested there….????? Well that might be plausable….except we DO NOT HAVE FOX HERE!!!!! Besides that….it was in the hub bub of 2 main streets and since I live in the forest….there would be plenty of areas to ‘nest’……I’m going out with the shovel…..because it’s not a hole any more….it got filled in….
Maybe the fox came back to fill it in….they do tend to clean up after themselves right????
UB DUH, UM…..ha….derh……
HUH?
WHAT?
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Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 3:44am
geminigirl says:
Maybe, just maybe, he was digging your grave and planning to do you in and plant you in the hole! Who knows how their crazy minds work? I personlly dont think its worth pursuing. Its only money. But what price your sanity and peace of mind? I would say “Forget it, sista!”
Love and Hugs, Gem.XX
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 6:56am
kim frederick says:
Wow. I have got to start staying up later. I miss entirely too much when I retire early. What with EB’s buried treasure intriegue, Henry’s moonsmile lesbian party, Shabbychic’s coveted liver, Skylar’s sleepytime strawberrys, I feel I am out of touch.
It sounds as if you’lls Ps were a lot smarter than mine. I don’t think mine plotted much, just pretty much lived neck to mouth…………………..:)……………………..Get it?
Well I hope everybody had a good Halloween, and by the way, the Gators won.
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 7:30am
shabbychic says:
EB, it all sounds fascinating. I’m out of town for 3 days but will be lurking on my Blackberry!
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 8:57am
skylar says:
g’morn gem and kim.
Yeah it was crazy here last nite. and then as soon as I go to bed, Erin’s S-friend calls. That really is freaky.
I bet she didn’t sleep all night after that.
Erin, If you’re out there, Remember that they get excited when the moon is full. Watch out in the next few days.
Gem, she can’t forget about the money, because HE won’t forget about the money. He’s coming for it. Besides, she could really use it to pay the massive bills.
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 9:13am
Isabell says:
Erin,
This “counter control” concept is totally new to me. Any suggestions on what to read so that I get a better concept of it, how to do it, when it is critical to do it?
The thought of running out to my neighbors or anybody else he’s trying to gain points with, just for the purpose of making more points then he is, makes me think I’m acting just like him, and not being authentic with these people. It sickens me…so I avoid (hide). Like I said in an earler post, my neighbors did this to the neighborhood, and extended friends when they went through their divorce. They were equally trying to one-up on each other to gain popularity points, and eventually they both were perceived as complete loons.
EVEN SO… I don’t want to be a sitting duck. He may be trying to build a case for a full 730 evaluation. He’s been so out of touch with the kids lives for four years, now suddenly he’s requesting parent teacher conferences, throwing money at the extracurricular activies (he’s not giving it to the kids, he wants to hand the money over to the people he’s trying to influence, etc. So, if he does push for a full evaluation, these people, when interviewed, can say… he’s an involved dad.
I shouldn’t get too worked up over this… the reunification therapist warned him, that if he went for the full evaluation, he would fail, and I would come out of it looking great. He was told with a full evaluation, he would be lucky to see the kids with supervision. As much as I love hearing this…things change, and well… I don’t trust anything, not even the obvious anymore.
Ok, heading off to Church.
Thanks Erin. I love reading your posts. I know you are serious, but dang, the way you express yourself, cracks me up.
I’m amazed by the brilliant minds here at LF. Beautiful writing, wonderful expressions, powerful insights, and hearts of gold — Angel’s on Earth.
I thank God for all of you, and your willingness to share your stories, and offer insights and advice. I wish I had found you four years ago.
Blessings…
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 10:55am
witsend says:
geminigirl,
You posted to me on another thread. Much of my problem is that I still live with the manipulation, & crazymaking, behavior.
At the same time of living with the crazymaking I am also trying to not only detach myself from the behavior and not react to it but I am also I think in what feels like a major grieving process.
I have been shedding tears for three days. Everything hurts. (including my sinuses)
My son has been “stepping up” to the plate to make sure everyone knows of his plan to leave and how awful it is for him to live here. He told the school that he had to call the police on me.
When a minor child is making accusations against you it is pretty difficult for me not to be concerned. Its not quite the same as when you X is out there spreading vicious lies. People do expect a certain amount of that after a break up.
I live in a small town. And generally speaking I don’t care what people think. But this is different. It’s hard to hold your head up high when your child is saying you are abusing him and he can’t wait for his 17th B-day so he can get out of here.
So I guess I am feeling overwhelmed emotionally. I am still also just trying to come to terms with the LOSS. I mean no matter what happens. I have to deal with the loss of him. Not in terms of leaving the house. YOU know what I mean. THE REAL LOSS. That is the part that really is starting to sink in.
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 11:40am
style1 says:
Thinking how he infiltrated my life on every level and my privacy.. when I was getting dressed, putting on my make-up, he would sit on the edge of the tub and watch me..I have never had any man or person do this ever.. except my six year old stepdaughter years ago and she would play Barbies on the floor of the bathroom while I was getting ready and try on my shoes..
So this guy would watch me.. and would watch what I chose to wear like it was so interesting to him.. then he would wear like the same color shirt or in some way match my look.. I guess that it was part of his mirroring me.. It was sweet yet creepy.. His father was absent .. his mother his constant and she married three times.. and one husband was horribly abusive to her and to him. His mother died three months after we met.. and she really liked me…
He is like a child looking for a mother, a happy family.. and I wonder if that is why I didn’t feel sexually attracted to him.. I felt maternal.. just thinking here.. he gave me so much attention.. but the attention was too much.. overdone.. I felt violated and smothered.. like in a bathroom .. the time is for yourself.. I have always repected that in others.. and his disrepect for my boundaries was suffacating and rude but sweet at the same time..
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 11:57am
skylar says:
style,
I had a cousin tell me about a boyfriend who did that.
on another blog for survivers of narcissist relationshits, there is a term called “bathroom-barging”. It’s very common – though my P didn’t do that to my recollection (maybe he did and I just had no boundaries so it didn’t bother me).
When narcissist parents do this to their kids, it takes the form of REMOVING THE BATHROOM or BEDROOM DOOR! Under the pretext that the child or teenager can’t be trusted to have any privacy. Narcissists have no respect for privacy. It’s so freakin bizarre. My best friend in gradeschool had this happen to her. Bedroom door removed and forbidden to shut bathroom door. I saw this w/my own eyes, but then she told me that her dad had molested her and I didn’t believe it. Now I know that it’s true because it’s all part of a pattern.
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 12:05pm
style1 says:
Okay.. thanks ‘bathroom barging’.. I have never heard of that.. I can see that.. If he was in his bathroom and I needed to speak to him.. I would knock on the door. If I told him specifically do not come in, he would honor that but .. if I was just in there.. he would turn up behind me … he was always behind me… in a store we were walking through, I stopped to look at something and he was so close to me that he ran into me. He was always touching my shoulder, placing his hand on my shoiulder and it felt weighty, always holding my hand, touching me. It wore me out.. it didn’t feel comforting, as in lovers touch.. it felt needy and like claws trying to dig into me.
I recall one time his back hurt. I told him to soak in a hot tub and he made bubbles with shampoo and soaked and he wanted me to sit in there and talk to him.. I did for a minute.. but then I didn’t want to.. it was like he wanted me to be a mommy.. huh? Because it didn’t feel close or sexual, in a man/woman way.. it felt like he wanted me to be maternal..
He didn’t like being alone.. he wanted me with him all the time.. ALL the time.. I have never been in a relationship like that ever.. it made me again feel suffocated. Good grief! My exerience with this man has freaked me out.. In some ways, he was what a woman whould want, always doing things around the house but in others he was like a TICK under my skin..
If he would call and I wouldn’t answer, he would keep calling.. it was like I was beckoned by the phone.. The phone become my boss… !@#%^&
Anyway, I guess I am just working through all these memories.. No boundaries is the big clue with these men though or people.. no respect for a person’s privacy or boundaries.
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 12:23pm
style1 says:
He was like the guy in the movie THE STEPFATHER.. when I saw that it took the breath out of me.. a friend told me to see it.. because she said the guy I was with reminded her of this type of character…
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 12:26pm
style1 says:
Skylar,
You are always saying that they are after shiny objects.. and I was thinking about that and really saw how that applies tome and this guy.. He was in a horrilbe place and my life looked shiny and moving forward and he jumped on. I had happiness and was putting together a new home and he was about to be evicted and his mother was dying and his last wife had died.. he had misery in his life with two sick kids and a molested daughter and I was just me… so he was after me like a rat on to cheese…
And I was thinking, he told me that he took his ex the one that molested his daughter to court and she pleaded no contest.. and the girl then came to live with him but he continued to pay her child support..
now, I do a lot of volunteer work and if someone is accused of child molestated and pleads no contest.. wouldn’t the court take the child away, and that person be put in jail or probation and deemed a registered pedofile.. yet nothing happened to this woman.. granted this was awhile back.. but does this sound strange to anyone else?
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 1:05pm
ErinBrock says:
MAMA GEM:
He wants access to my property, there is something here HE WANTS…..I can’t let this go…….
If I intercept, and he is giving me all the leads….(as he has done ALL along), then it will be another avenue of shutting him out from me.
If he knows there is NOTHING left here for him, he will eventually go away…..but i knew all along, by all the ’signals’ he has given…….NOT picking up his 2 items awarded to him in the divorce….this is SO UNLIKE HIM…SO
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 1:22pm
OxDrover says:
Dear Witsend,
I hear what you are saying about what he told the school, I think what I would do is go to the cop you had come out and talk to him, ;if he will, get something in writing about that EVENT where “he called the cops” and then take it to the school, OR have the cop call the school and talk to the principal. Of course the little darling is going to LIE—that is what they do. Maybe the cop would go to your son’s school and call him out of class so the other kids could see HIM called out. If the cops ever come out again no matter who calls them, insist on a written report.
I would also call the school counselor the one who “gets it” and speak with her about this. Of course your son will tell all his classmates what a harpy you are. Boy, did mine have that routine down pat!!!! He had so many people convinced I was abusing him and I didn’t even know any of it was going on, of course yo uare at least ahead of me on that game and know what he is doing.
If he tries to confront you about getting the report or giving it to the school, I would just present it as, “I had to protect my reputation from what you told the school authorities. I won’t discuss it any more, it is over and done.” Then refuse to engage any more with him. If he shoults or whatever just let him rage and appear calm in front of him, if he threatens, hand him to phone and tell him to call 911. Or tell him “it is only 45 days until you can leave here and no one will hunt you down, why don’t you just chill for that time. I’m not going to try to stop you from leaving.”
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 1:48pm
witsend says:
Oxy,
Actually the counselor is who told me this information. I had to go to school for an unrelated incident and thought I would pop in to see her.
She left a message for the police man to call her while I was there. Because she wanted to speak to him about my son.
When I talked to the cop later (I was suppose to get back to him about counseling for my son) he was actually kind of “shity” to me. The school counselor and him had been playing telephone tag for a couple of days because they work opposite shifts. The cop wanted to know what the school counselor was calling HIM for? And that he had already gone beyond more than what the normal call of “duty”…..
Such as providing me information with a counselor for my son to see.
That is of course more than I can afford because she doesn’t take medicaide. AND I don’t see him going anyways.
HOWEVER somehow when I am telling the cop this, it just seems makes me look like I am a BAD mother!
He does have enough sense to know that if the counseling idea comes from me, my son will not go. He did admit this to me.
So HE is going to present this idea to my son. Because he seems to think that because this is close to my home and my son can do this independently from me, he might go. He won’t need a ride ect.
He DID seem to get that my son really will do nothing I would ask him to do.
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 2:25pm
ErinBrock says:
I;m off to get a metal detector…..They call me Nancy Drew…..
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 2:34pm
OxDrover says:
Witsend,
It does provoke me that some “professionals” in several fields do NOT get what a P is and if a kid misbehaves it is “always” the parents’ fault and it is “assumed” that if we had been good parents none of this would have happened. UGH!!!!!Enough to make me grind my teeth! They don’t seem to realize that a teenager has a mind that is INDEPENDENT OF PARENTAL CONTROL. Or that they may have the cunning and ability to LIE LIKE A RUG.
All you can do at this point is WAIT, and however long it is until his 17th birthday he will HAVE TO DO SOMETHING LIKE LEAVE because he has been blaming YOU for not being able to leave so he has to PUT UP OR SHUT UP with his friends, and it appears to me that “impressing” the other kids is what it is all about. My little darling had one of those HUGE “CROTCH ROCKET” motorcycles he had stolen, it was beautiful land he kept it at someone else’s house, but rode it to and from school, he even had a photo made of him sitting on it in a leather jacket in the school parking lot. He thought he was HOT stuff and it was all about impressing the girls and the other guys with what he had and how independent he was.
My guess is that your son is doing the “same” kind of thing (not stealing motorcycles) but in trying to impress the other kids with the DRAMA of his life, and how he is going to overcome the wicked witch of the west (mommie) and be INDEPENDENT WHILE THEY, stupid ordinary kids that they are, are going to study and be ordinary while he is going to be OUTSTANDING AND INDEPENDENT. No one is going to tell HIM what to do. LOL Oh, if only he knew the truth!
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 2:48pm
heavenbound says:
Witsend,
“The real loss”…my heart goes out to you. I’m so very sorry. I wish I knew what to say I know you have others that are giving advise, so I’ll let those that have been there or have more wisdom than I, do that. But you are not alone, Love, hugs and prayers, heavenbound
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 3:44pm
witsend says:
heavenbound,
Thank you for your kind words….I did see your nice response to one of my post yesterday as well…I didn’t mean to over look it. I was just kind of overwhelmed.
xxxx
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 3:50pm
skylar says:
Witsend,
Oxy basically said it. cops just don’t get it.
I have a police scanner and I overheard some county deputies. One cop said he’s gotten a call from a mother that wanted him to “speak” to her son about obeying her. The cop said there was no way he was going out there, that isn’t his job and she needs to do her job blah blah blah.
Cops don’t get it because they have slack jobs where they get paid the same either way. They get their little adrenalin fix and their power/authority fix and a pay check, but other than that they just sit on their asses. They do one little part: make the arrest. But they have no clue what it’s like to live with and try to survive living with a disordered individual each and every day.
One very common thread about dealing with P’s, is that cops are usually very little help until there’s violence involved.
Keep up the “gray rock” routine, never let ANY OF them see you sweat. You’ll make it through, you have my prayers.
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 4:18pm
skylar says:
Erin,
I have an idea to get your xP triggered into making the move sooner rather than later.
Somehow, drop the information to him that you are going to be doing some landscaping or construction (adding a deck or something) which your new boyfriend is paying for (just add that for gratuitous envy) and that it’s scheduled to start next week. If the loot is buried within that area, he’ll ramp up his time schedule for grabbing it and you can pounce.
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 4:22pm
heavenbound says:
Witsend,
That’s ok, I understand, but thank you for letting me know. I knew you were having a time so no need to worry about my feelings, no need at all! Love, big hugs, and prayer, heavenbound
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 4:25pm
witsend says:
Oxy,
you know I don’t really care what he is telling the other kids so much as what he is telling their parents! (and of course the school) THAT is what bothers me.
My older son called me and told me that his brother did tell him he was leaving when he turned 17. He of course confided with him where he is going to stay. And where he is planning on staying, bothers me because you would think that this mother would confide in me? And I can’t ask her about it because my oldest son asked me not to break what was told to him in confidence.
She is a very NICE person, and so I am led to believe that she believes “his story”. And this makes me feel uncomfortable. This kid stays at my house at least once a week (on weekends) and of course since this happened he has been here after school and stuff but not spending the night.
I had been in a similar situation with a friend of my older sons many years ago. My son and his friend asked if he could stay for a few days because he was having problems with his dad. I said that it wouldn’t be a PROBLEM as long as it was ok with his mother. And that SHE needed to call me and verify this.
This is just common sense….She did call and said it would be a good idea because it would help defuse the situation at home.
And another time I had another kid stay here (again a friend of my older sons) and his parents were going through a very ugly divorce. He stayed with us during the Christmas break and the holidays.
So I have been on the “other side” of this situation as well. The difference is that these kids didn’t come up with detailed “stories” of abuse. The first kid just said he had a bad argument with his dad. His mother confirmed it. And the second kid, I already knew of the bitter divorce, and when his dad said it was ok to stay here…It was ok with me.
I am grateful that someone is going to take him in. It is better than him running the streets.
And in the big picture of things I know it isn’t the biggest thing on my plate right now.
Sometimes I guess I need to feel validated? And when I am in the middle of all this I feel like I am loosing my grip, in more ways than one.
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 4:25pm
witsend says:
skylar,
I think that is the reason I have been crying for days. My son spent the night at his friends house both last night and the night before. This is the same kid that usually spends the night here.
So I have had alot of time to think and in the process fall apart.
I have been trying to maintain that cool, calm and collected exterior when on the inside I am crumbing in a million pieces.
Its like I can’t stop crying.
This cop really did TRY do a pretty good job when he was here. I have to give him credit for that. When I try to talk to my son he is impossible to reason with. You KNOW how they twist and turn things and you go around and around.
Well for the first time I witnessed my son in “action” doing this to someone else. (the cop) And as arrogant as cops can be I think this guy took him on as a challenge.
The cop figured he was gonna break him….My son did NOT back down. (this is when hes still playing good cop)
So then he turns around and starts being tough cop. My son still didn’t back down with the “word play”. He did finally agree to not leave until he was 17. And those cops couldn’t get out the door fast enough once he agreed to that.
This ALONE should give this guy a real INSIDE view of what I deal with ALL the time. Only I can’t run out the door like they did.
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 4:47pm
alohatraveler says:
Dear ML Gallagher,
Thanks for sharing your story. I really admire that you have been able to step out and love after going through all of that you did with your BAD MAN.
I am so stuck. I think you have mentioned before that you found love since this bad experience. My question is, what made you decide to trust? You had to decide to just do it, right?
My story is different than yours but I recoginze the tactics. The Bad Man terrorized me in his own ways.
I don’t date much and I don’t trust. I am working with a therapist because I feel that I have healed as much as I can on my own but I recognize that I am stuck. Mainly, I am stuck on hope… I don’t hope. I refuse to hope. I have been stuck in this hopeless place for a few years now. I refuse to dream of what I want because I can’t bear the pain of another let down. So, I live my hopeless life.. doing what I need to do each day. Going where I need to go. I pour out my love and compassion in my work but I hope for nothing for me.
I am truly sorry if I am sounding like a drama queen but this is very real for me right now. Have you been to this hopeless place? If you have, how did you get out of it? I don’t expect that some man will show up and love me out of here!… for that would be “hoping for love” and like I said, I don’t go there…. at all.
Aloha….. Elise
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Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 4:47pm
persephone7 says:
Elise:
When I first came to Lovefraud, I remember your posts as being some of the most inspirational to me – sometimes you might not know how much your words have helped me and others here. I’m sad to hear you’re feeling stuck though – on another thread, I mentioned how just hearing that
phrase ‘trust me’ can trigger such a powerful red flag response in me (someone who’s truly trustworthy shouldn’t have to use that phrase anyway.) But maybe you could use that technique we were talking about
awhile back of being more of a spectator to yourself and those feelings of ‘being stuck.”
You’re not being a drama queen, you’re just in your process as we all are – it’s good you’re realizing you need the help of the therapist to work through this hopeless place
you speak of – it’s a small town on the map, not worthy of your moving there, just
passing through and you could just meditate and see yourself ready to get your next
bus or ride out of there, imagine where you want to go. I’m not feeling hopeless lately
but a little leery of making good decisions about actually moving, maybe quitting a decent
but unfulfilling job to do my art but I’m trying to be kind to myself as I watch the struggle
it is to do this.
Sometimes I think I haven’t ‘let’ myself be happy, simply that. Like someone needs to
give me permission – we can give ourselves that and we don’t have to hope for anything.
There’s nothing wrong with hope but it can lead to illusion without action anyway, so the
best thing is just to be alive, feel your pain, start thinking more of little ways to give yourself
pleasure – it seems to me your hope and trust capacity will make themselves known soon
enough. Sending you love and good dreams.
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 5:35pm
amber says:
LOL!!! Oh my god, I’m cracking up reading EB’s posts! I went to bed early and have been writing a speech for class all day, I’m just readin and readin…Wow!! So can I assume that Nancy Drew is out digging holes right now with the help of her metal detector!?!?! I can’t wait to see what she finds, the suspense is going to kill me!! Good luck out there NANCY!!
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Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 6:23pm
alohatraveler says:
Persephone,
Thanks for your note. I am so happy that anything I wrote helped anyone! So, thank you for that!
I don’t write that much these days. It’s hard to visit and catch all the articles now that I am back in school. But, perhaps it is also where I am in life now… depleted and feeling hopeless. Remember the little sock puppet from the internet era? And remember that super bowl commercial after the dot.com crash? There was little sock doggie, flattened, lifeless, and with car tracks across his white “coat.” I feel like that little sock dog.
I really miss the old me. I was more hopeful and believing in love. I walked through fire for Jeffrey. His tests got harder and harder though. I thought he would eventually see that I meant it when I said I loved him… but as the stories go, he ratcheted up the pain and the emotional beating until I could no longer take it.
I like what you said about my shabby little town called Hopeless. I know I need to leave. I think I am using hopelessness to protect myself from further disappointment and pain. It sure does make it hard to go forward though. My life is moving forward in other ways. But I am feeling like I am a whole lotta love.. wasted. Is this really God’s plan for me? This? I don’t understand.
Anyway, thanks for your encouraging words. I do appreciate them and need it terribly lately. Overall, I am discouraged about men… and who they are. I don’t want to man bash but I am very very disappointed. (Sorry to all your good LF guys.)
No time to bake meatloaf today. I always make Turkey Meatloaf when I am feeling down. For some reason, it helps. :O)
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 6:34pm
persephone7 says:
I made pomegranate muffins yesterday, from my own tree I planted and
finally reaping the harvest, about 30 beautiful pomegranates!
Don’t miss the old you, Elise, she’s still there. Like Persephone who had
to go down into the earth for part of the year and be with Hades, you can
come back up into the light again (and be in a muffin!) Excuse me, I’ve always loved mythology…
I like meatloaf too, have you ever tried it with ground lamb – I put white wine, olive juice and olives, bay leaves, garlic and use good bread – what else…egg of course, maybe a little cut-up cilantro and red onion…tried it with ground buffalo too…man, I’m getting hungry!
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Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 7:36pm
persephone7 says:
Elise:
Not to be too flip…Maybe I write now because I have to, I don’t want to become morose or too depressed. I just know I’m praying more at times for God to show me some openings, to provide me with new inspiration – not just for art but for new friends and experiences, even a new job if that’s necessary. I’m trying to just keep myself open, I’ve felt like that sockpuppet too – just think about what you said about Louise DECIDING to trust, maybe not without reservation but deciding to leave herself open to something new and better. I think first – I want to trust myself, that’s something I’ve not done consistently in life – so am trying to work on that now. To be more consistent in everything, to be more disciplined in my own habits, to be a better friend to family and those who will appreciate that attention from me, I know I’ve neglected them at times to pursue this other relationship. Or just always trying to regroup and keep my life going, as it sounds like you are.
Did/do you still live in Hawaii – wonder how that was…I like to see myself by the ocean again soon.
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Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 7:52pm
alohatraveler says:
Oh wow.
That sounds wonderful with the white wine. Yummy. I use Ground Turkey (California-ness). I use Akmak crackers to make bread crumbs and an olive tapanade sometimes. I also use mushrooms and shredded carrots, tons of parsley.
Cooking can be therapeutic. :O)
Thanks for being there.
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Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 7:55pm
kim frederick says:
Perseph, I like Mythology too. I always liked the one about the guy who was chained at tghe top of the mountain, and every day the vultures ate his liver, but then every night he grew a new one……some god’s punishment………….I think it’s kind of like living with a P and being in denial. They can eat you alive, but somehow we lie to ourselves and say, “oh, it’s not that bad! Know what I mean.
Your meatloaf sounds yummy. I’m a little squeemish about lamb, but as a child, growing up in the Pacific northwest, I actually ate moose meat. My Dad made a hunting expedition to Alberta Canada and came home with a moose. I grew up on elk and venison, salmon, and wild duck. I remember waking up, early Saturday morning after a rain, and going into the woods to search for wild mushrooms,(yellow chantrells) wild blackberry cobbler, oh my! I miss my home and my Mom and Dad.
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 8:02pm
skylar says:
Kim, that sounds yummy, but expensive. do your parents still live up here?
Aloha, you probably feel better when you eat turkey because it has so much tryptophan in it and that’s what we use to make serotonin. It’s calming.
Persephone, I’m sure I’ve mentioned how much I love mythology…it’s actually one of the things that is helping me understand the P. Kim’s liver analogy cracks me up because i think heavenbound’s P was going to ask her to share her liver for a transplant!
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Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 8:19pm
persephone7 says:
You’re right about lamb, I don’t eat it often and just saw what looked like a
really good package of it from Australia a couple of times and wanted to try it for a change.
My mom was from Edmonton and I miss her, she died last year in September and with everything happening so fast with my sister’s disease within 3 or 4 months, it still seems like I haven’t fully grieved her loss. She made very dry turkey croquettes we all would tease her about – she just
didn’t think of being very creative with seasoning things or cooking things less than ‘well done’. But she was a very special, kind person who had her own disappointments in love. Her Dad died young and she was always looking for a father figure and took too much abuse, mainly emotional from the two men she married.
At any rate, that’s another reason I like it here. I have some good women friends but have never really ‘hung out’ with other women, not in high school or college, never did the heavy dating or party scene. Was more drawn to men and chose those who I was attracted to sexually and tried to please them with that and then beyond – that stage was set.
i love that Henry is here and Matt and the other men I may have forgotten – it’s definitely not just a gender thing we’ve all been involved with, just being human, being sensitive and vulnerable.
Wild blackberry cobbler, that sounds so good too…with whipped cream or vanilla ice cream?
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 8:23pm
kim frederick says:
Skylar, no. Both my Mom and Dad are dead. My only relitive, my brother, lives in Bremerton, still. He’s cominghere for Thanksgiving….really cool.
The Moose was probably expensive. As far as the rest of it, I think it was kind of living off the land….at least that’s the way my Dad presented the whole thing.
It’s funny, because I am very proud of the idea of livingoff the land and the whole western culture, but am opposed to hunting (although I don’t say too much about it.) Oh well, off topic. How the hell are ya, Sky?
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 8:28pm
kim frederick says:
Perseph, vanilla ice-cream, melting over the top.
I didn’t mean to say that I don’t like lamb….I don’t know if I like lamb. I’m one of those conflicted people who should probably be a vegitarian, but isn’t because I like meat. I don’t like to think too much about what happens to the animals…..Oh Lord
I’m sorry about your Mom’s death. God bless her dry turkey crocettes. My Mom made something she called Goulash with macaronni, tomatoes, and kidney beans……….Good Lord.
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 8:47pm
skylar says:
Kim,
I finally finished installing those 2 hard drives. Don’t know why everything has to be so much DRAMA with me! LOL! They’re just frickin hard drives but they scared me, I knew it wouldn’t go smoothly. And sure enough, I didn’t have the right screws and then I had to make do with some “less perfect” ones.
My brain isn’t as sharp as I feel it once was. I think it’s because 80% of my brain power is constantly thinking about P’s.
I don’t know if you guys feel this way, but I feel like an early settler – on frickin MARS! It’s like everything is new. I have to get used to the new gravity on this P-planet, the new atmosphere, the new sunrise and sunset and the new moons, the new weather patterns and plants and tech and culture. I feel like I woke up on another planet AND IT HAD PREVIOUS INHABITANTS – P’S.
Am I the only one whose brain feels this way? Like, there is so much to learn? How could I have existed for 43 years and be completely unaware of the parallel universe that existed right in my own living room?
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 8:59pm
alohatraveler says:
Presephone.. no I don’t live in Hawaii anymore. I left the islands to get away from Bad Man. I realized I wouldn’t be able to stay away from him. When I left, I didn’t know he was a Sociopath or disordered. I just knew he was a nightmare and I was fried.
I think all of you have a better attitude than I do. I need to work on that. My lack of hope is a protective layer. I know it. I just don’t want to put energy into hoping and dreaming. I guess I feel that longing for something that just might not be coming is better than spending decade after decade “believing.” I know that Wayne Dyer says something like “act as if what you want is already on it’s way.” He believes in all that power of positive thinking. yeah yeah.
(
I really got burned by all the new age bull sh*t through the Bad Man and just the weirdo culture of people in Maui. Maui is wonderful and the true locals are lovely. I love the Polynesian culture. But the mainlanders… they seem to go there in droves to live “alternative” life styles so there was so much hippy dippy drippy new age crapola. Take it from me… I spent 12 years living in Santa Cruz, CA… well known for it’s weirdness and Maui had it beat by far. So many women introducing themselves as “Goddess” and crap like that. UGH. My housemate and I just laughed about it all the time. And we were both massage therapists… so you think we would be open to all that woo-woo stuff… and we thought we were until we moved there… it was over the top.
Anyway, I am off to have a Malona Bar…. a honey dew popcicle we discovered in Hawaii. You can only find them at asian markets. It’s like a orange creamcicle but with honeydew flavor instead… it’s dreamy and creamy! I guess I am feeling a little better.
Thanks ladies. I do need to hold my chin up.
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 9:08pm
kim frederick says:
Sky, is it like this:
Hey did you just see that elephant that was snooting through the potpourri on the coffee table?
Was He gray, and did he have a really big multi-colored head dress on?
Yes.
Nope. I didn’t see him.
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 9:15pm
ErinBrock says:
Hi guys…
Got the metal detector….read the instructions and Nancy Drew will be up bright and early to do landscaping!
I have a plan that I am sure, the way I think, will evolve and be perfected until I hear from my ‘best friend’ dude either next week or the week after.
If I can’t find it before, I will let him lead me there……..If I find it before….I will involve the police when he shows up tresspassing…..
I did more recon on this best friend of mine and he has several ‘front’ businesses….he is not a get your hands ‘dirty’ type….more of the ‘brains’ of the operation….
His ex gf and I are friends and no one knows that we kept in touch….she has been a huge support and I to her through the past few years……she’s the one who tipped me off to this….possibility. WE both know, without a doubt there is something very odd that he keeps contacting me, and now he’s throwing his mother on me as she has always LOVED me????WTF??
He so wants me to meet his baby…..WTF?????
So like I said…..I have devised a plan….Plan A, plan B and Plan C! I have time to evolve them…..and the way I work, this is the best way……
I will contact a CPA to see what the legalities are of reporting and if tax’s may be due…..I want to cover my ass.
It would be unclaimed property found on my own property and legally mine….
THIS WOULD EAT HIM…..just do him in…..
I won’t back down or be walked on……and if he thought he could hide COMMUNITY ASSETS from me…..well……he might have been smart to claim them in the divorce!
But NO…..greed, stupidity and one scorned woman has gotten the best of him!!!!
This would be just a CLASSIC ‘ending’!!!!
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 9:18pm
ErinBrock says:
Isabelle:
Counter control….I am not sure if there is anything written about this anywhere…..this is just what I call it.
It’s about figuring out how they think, the actions they take and being more covert to achieve YOUR goals…..like protecting assests or yourself….
Thinking like a Sociopath and using the same tactics…..back atcha babe……
I followed the law the whole way…..in the beginning of our separation, until I found out about the big drugs, him taking 50K from our account etc….I never did anything malicious…..
I soon found I was getting buried….I paid all his bills, turned over all monies from the business…..only to aid him in his deceit and cons……never exposed his behaviors….as he was burying (no pun intended) me in slander in my community.
It got to the point, my attorney said…..at least you can walk out of the marriage with dignity….I told my attorney….what the fuck is dignity going to do for me? I live with dignity with or without him…..I have dignity, but I need to change my strategy…..
I never cancelled any policies, his cc’s or took monies….I contineud to pay for everything…..THAT is dignity…..I didn’t change that…
What I did do was go covert….exposed him in detail with documentation, played his game, but opposite……I didn’t go around town like a crazy woman…..I just planted seeds, that he fertalized…….by his actions…..he was desparate for people to ‘bleieve’ his story, I knew I couldn’t
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 9:42pm
skylar says:
Erin,
Excellent strategy to have back up plans.
I must warn you that the metal detector is unlikey to work. They use TUPPERWARE! Yep big plastic tupperware because it keeps the drugs smell down. So they probably used it to bury the money too. I would suggest a drug sniffing dog, but that would involve other people, unless you can train your own. The tupperware does help keep the smell leakage down but then it absorbs the smell too, so it stays smelly for years. A good sniffing dog would find it.
One thing I can tell you for sure, DO NOT REVEAL TO ANYONE (other than us since we don’t know your name) if you find that $. People talk. They can’t help it, it’s human nature. I mean, you can report it on your taxes, but don’t let any friends or family know. I guarantee you the envy will be off the scale. P’s will come out of the woodwork. Your life will be miserable. Just spend your money and let everyone else think you never found it. I’m not sure I would even tell the kids.
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 9:46pm
henry says:
Hey Skylar _ I am hiding behind a bush and when Erin finds that treasure I am gonna boink her with my skillet. Meet me in Vegas?
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 9:49pm
witsend says:
Erin,
That money is dirty money! It ain’t worth it!
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 9:50pm
kim frederick says:
Hell hath no fury, like a woman scorned!!!
That’s really interesting, because the Classic Greek Play by Aeschelus, “The Libation Bearers” was a tale about revenge.
The primary antagonists were the furys, (Female spirits) who wanted retribution, in the form of blood (very much in keeping with clasical greek tradition,)
The word “libation” means drink, and the idea was to feed the
earth,(the great mother) with the blood of the offending party
So that mother earth could continue to be fecund and fertile………anyway……………………….
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 9:51pm
skylar says:
Henry,
I’ve booked the flight, I’m bringing my battery-powered, iron, silcone-coated, skillet. I’m also bringing sleeping pills and strawberries. Can you bring the tazer and pepper spray?
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 10:00pm
skylar says:
Oh wait, i didn’t get it, we’re going to do Erin in? Oh, well that’s different, don’t bother with a skillet, she likes fine wine. Fine Vintage wine goes good with sleeping pills.
Oh, Hi Erin, are you still lurking around here? Ahemmmm, well, we uhhh, were just thinking about inviting….you to, um, VEGAS! Yeah! THAT’S THE TICKET!
What?
Huh?
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 10:03pm
henry says:
Oh Skylar I hope you got two queen size beds!!! “)
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 10:12pm
ErinBrock says:
Well….I’m pretty certain it’s not drugs…..It’s just not like him…..
I think I know what it is…..and it’s something he accused me of ’stealing’ and my mother years ago….to divert attention off him when he ‘discovered’ it was all missing…..
When we moved from another house, he freaked out that I was getting rid of over 100 paint cans…..he said absolutely NOT…..and made a big stink….It was weird, my contractor still reminds me of how weird this behavior was……he told us then, he his valuables in the paint cans…..WTF???? he had a safe!!!!! Isn’t that what a safe is for???? NOOOOO…….because he thought I had the combination and couldn’t store stuff he was hiding from me in the safe!!! so paint cans it was…he also mentioned insulation in the basement. I tore all that out before we moved…..he never touched any of it……..
He already gave me heads up on the paint can ’storage’…..and confrimed that wiht a former employee who recently called me and mentioned this….
He’s made a lot of enemies….by his actions and acusations…unfounded and bizaar….so now, people are coming out of the woodworks to talk…..I just take it all in…..
In regards to money….well……I won’t spend it before I find it…..so I only hope it’s that….but it could be a few things…..really.
I do know he has money hidden/buried, just not so sure it’s HERE……
I know he spread money out when he left, and had it in all the states he traveled to……so he ‘watered’ it down…..
He was a glass jar hider….mason large jars….My son had me smell every jar in our home after he informed me of the ‘vacation’ they took with pops…..
Anyways….I will keep you posted…..I may be able to retire in Istanbul afterall!!!!!! TOMORROW!
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 10:29pm
skylar says:
Erin, I didn’t mean he had buried drugs on your property, I only meant that he probably used old smelly, drug-tainted tupperware to put the money in. But paint cans would work too. Those would fire up the metal detector!
Henry! if you’re going to be THAT way about it, I’m not sure you can be my partner. To be my partner you would have to be willing to “take one for the team”. I might ditch you and run away to Istanbul with my celibate lesbian friend – Erin darling….
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 10:36pm
geminigirl says:
Seriously ,guys you could make a great, funny movie out of all this! it would be a scream! A bit like “Throw Momma off the train” except it would be “Throw Erin into the Grave!!”LOL!!
Gene Wylder would be good in it!Love, gem.XX
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 10:40pm
amber says:
Wow!! What a mission!! Well, I know for sure your day is going to be a hell of a lot more exciting that my math class!! LOL! I’ll be thinking of you out there diggin away!!
I’ll propose a word problem for my teacher…If EB has X amount of square yards to dig up, and one metal detector and 12 hours of day light, how many paint cans will she find before the sun goes down?!? Something like that.
Extra Credit…if each paint can she finds holds X amount of $$$$$ ..how rich will EB be at the end of the day???
Simple algebra really…LOL!!
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 10:41pm
ErinBrock says:
AAHHHHmmmmmm….
EB’s here…..
BTW…..two glasses of nice cab……I’ll be asleep at the table….so no worries about the sleeping pills, and not much of a strawberry fan…..and anything I eat in EITHER of your presence will be switched out with your food anyways…….
I’m on to you guys….HENS…..I can’t beleive you would betray me like this…I thought it was love……
Skylar, I expect….but YOU???
And if I find any money, it will all go to get me out of the debt he forced on me…..so….I still won’t be worth much….maybe dinner…..
Witsend…..I’ve thought about that and since the police have not been able to arrest him, and god knows I have handed him over on a silver freaken platter…..there is no proof it’s dirty and he’s sure not going to admit it’s his to claim ownership…..and explain where he got it…..
And the fact that there is something here he is really wanting……..and NOW….he won’t leave it alone, until he knows it’s gone, nothing left and It would be classic to have his friend…ooopps my friend arrested for tresspassing and drive another point home to him…..I’m following the law…and stay the hell away….there is NOTHING left for you here and any messenger you send will have charges filed…..!!!!
He knows I would never keep any valuables on my property, so it wouldn’t be worth robbing me and ransackig the house…he’s done that already a few times…..he’s just going to have to swallow it and chalk it up to he farked up!!!!
I am broke, I need to pay for educations here…..I have no health insurance, foreclosure etc..blah, blah….
I would rather divert and remove than allow him to stalk me and find a right time to enter my property….
I can’t be a sitting duck! He’s only interested in the possessions…….I’m no good to him dead.
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 10:43pm
geminigirl says:
Erin, if they bury you with your vibrating metal cyber skillet, {along with the Rustoleum Lube,} all they will dig up in a few years will be YOU plus the cyber vibrating skillet!!LOL!
There was a very funny film made in Scotland recently.
The bad guys killed a bloke, and threw him into a grave theyd dug in a hurry. the dead guys mobile {cell} phone, which was in his jacket pocket, went off under the ground, just as the police and tracker dogs were hunting for the baddies. The phone just kept on ringing till th battery went dead! So the baddies ended up in a nice cell because of the cell phone!!LOL!! Good story! gem,Xx
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 10:46pm
ErinBrock says:
SKylar throws me under the sleeping bus and then wants to be my celebate lesbian lover? Dude…..I am so on to you…..I know your kind!!!
…. I still love you though….
Henry just wanted to make sure you got two queen beds so he and I can cuddle and not disturb YOU! Since I might be snoring loudly from the deep sleep Ya’ll plan on having me in!
As Gem is out there diggin my grave……don’t worry mama gem…I have another mother just like you…..so I’m used to that too!
And Amber….I love your algebreic equations. This may have to be continued for a few weeks….so write it down and keep track……at the end….I will buy it from you and frame it!!!!
And maybe all that is buried is a paint can of condoms and names /phone numbers and the joke will be on all of us!!!!
APRIL FOOLS!!!!!
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 10:53pm
ErinBrock says:
Oh, wouln’t that be the way to go out!!!! The vibrating skillet…rustolium lube…..think of what the geologists will think when they unearth me in 1000 years……talk about making history!!!!
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 10:55pm
skylar says:
Erin my dear…
ignore Henry, he’s no good for you… you know.
I would never betray you. TRUST ME.
What?
Anyway, right before I left my P, he began to tell me that homeland security was after him. blah, blah, blah, I’m sure I’ve told you this story. But what I didn’t tell you is that I began to go along with the story. I’d tell him that I was sure I saw the black SUV’s all over the Island, FOLLOWING ME. I acted all paranoid and whispered alot, just like he did. I used the opportunity to get rid of all his drug paraphernelia, all under the guise of “being paranoid”. He was having so much fun “gaslighting” me that he allowed me to do these things without interfering.
The only reason he had so much drug evidence around the house (several truck loads of grow equipment and old peat moss) was to keep me isolated and prisoner. He knew that I couldn’t have any friends over or have family visit while that crap was there. And I couldn’t leave him either because I couldn’t sell the house with that crap there. Well his “gaslighting” was the perfect opportunity to dump the crap and not let on that I was leaving him. LOL. He even helped me a couple of times.
So, one thing you could do if you find the money, is set up a con, just like they do. Send out a rumor that you were building something or landscaping in the exact area of the hidden money. Say that your landscaper unburied some junk and hauled it away. Your landscaper was an illegal alien and he disappeared and never finished the job. You only know him as “Manuel” and he was working for real cheap.
Add lots of details to make it more believable. Have “witnesses” (my xP had his friends and cops be witnesses) confirm different parts of the story. P’s will believe anything as long as there is drama. They are so stupid.
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 11:03pm
amber says:
Ahhhhh..I can see their puzzled faces now…
What is this heavy, rusted, silcone covered metal object?
Why are there batteries in the handle?
Why is it between her legs?
And what on earth is rustolium lube?
Ohhh….this has lifetime movie written all over it!!
And hopefully you don’t find bones in paint cans when you’re digging….CREEPY!!! AAAHHHHHHH!!!!
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 11:07pm
henry says:
you guys are nuts – let me tell you something unrelated to treasure that my X did to me concerning condoms..torward’s the end of my three year vacation from hell with the spath. I had caught him red handed many times with his pants down, caught him at so many lies that he denied. Well one evening I come home and he is in a rage!! He said ” There are two condom’s missing out of the bedside drawer and I found them out in the barn, same lot number same style, who was here?’ “Who were you f ing?” Well I was bewildered to say the least, I had no idea why two condoms would be out in the barn…So he jumps in his truck and speeds off and doesnt return for days….well I went out to the barn and sure nuff, laying on the ground were two condoms, opened and laying side by side neatly, and obviously very unused….well was that gaslighting, fucking with my mind? It was so bizzar I didnt even know what to think…
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 11:08pm
geminigirl says:
This is SO ,SO FUN!! Isnt it GOOD to laugh? Its so healing to have a good belly laugh! We can safely say all this in fun, as we all know and love each other, we are a safe haven from the Ps! How sad for them, that they just dont get humour! sad, sick, Ba–rds!!Still think all this would makea great funny movie, in th style of Buster Keaton, or Charlie Chaplin!!
We should seriuosly save all this, we may make our fortunes yet in Hollywood!! Agents will be lining up at our door!!
How many Queens will henry have in his Queen sized beds?
Another nice sum for you, children!This could go global!Need to go change my panty liner, laughing so hard, LOL!!! Mama Gem.XXXOxy, whats your take on all this? I bet its making you laugh too!!
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 11:08pm
ErinBrock says:
huh?
I think I will build something commemorating the find……like a large fake pot plant garden out of 2×4’s with plastic japanese maple leaves glued onto it….and blue and red travelocity knomes with his face and BUTT glued on the knomes, standing in a circle around the shrine.
Yes… I do remember a time the S got paranoid, and told me things in the middle of the night about him going to the police and the newspaper to narc off some kids in town……(THAT HE WAS SELLING TO)……this was an instance where he said he had buried things but wouldnt tell me what he buried…..I bugged him for weeks about that and he would NOT tell me…he said it was for my own good!!!!!! TRUST ME,,,baby cakes…..
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 11:10pm
henry says:
in hindsight – i think he needed a reason to leave for a few days and messing with my head was intertainment to him,,
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 11:12pm
geminigirl says:
henry, thats so funny about the condoms in the barn! He could have come up with a way better excuse, ie, I was using them to help milk the cows, without bruising their udders!All he’d have neded to do was punch a hole in each of them, and Voila! fresh milk for your morning coffee! But, hey, they have no sense of humour and no imagination, so I guess he wouldnt have thought of it.Truth is truly stranger than fiction! I feela mini series from LF coming on!! Love, Gem.
We are truly SHAMELESS!! LOL!!
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 11:16pm
ErinBrock says:
Mama Gem:
I’m not laughing at all…..this is my life!!!!! For peets sake!
Actually, I am cracking up as you all unfold my life…….and afterlife!
Unfortunately, my real life is definately movie worthy…….that’s the sad part! I woulld be thrilled to come out of this exposing him in 3D Cinimax style…..Oh, I’m sure he would be thrilled too …..until he saw the movie!!!
One day, I will have a quiet, boring life in Istanbul……sipping Pina Colada’s and filing my nails with big sunglasses on and a sexy Istanbullian ‘boy’ fanning my brow feeding me strawberries WITHOUT the additives…..
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 11:17pm
skylar says:
Henry,
yep, the classic accuse and ditch con.
AKA
projects his evil and then actually does it.
My own P still accuses me of everything he does and then says, “I would NEVER have done something like that to you”.
LOL.
Geminigirl, there is no doubt we should all get together and write a book: How to spot a P.
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 11:22pm
henry says:
Istanbulliam (boy) this movie is taking a turn torwards erotica. If I made a movie of my life it would be a Stephen King movie – seriously – you would not believe it if I told you
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 11:23pm
amber says:
LOL!! Yes we are truly shameless..and I’m cracking up right now!!
Henry were there animals in the barn??? Maybe you came home and caught him about to violate a sheep and he had no other option but to accuse you and run away until he figured out a story…I’d be questioning condoms in a barn..EWWWWWW…….
And I can’t wait for this to make a mini series or a 3D cinemax movie!! Who would you get to play you EB?!?! Oh oh I’ll bring the popcorn!!! What would the name be??
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 11:24pm
skylar says:
I’m thinking we do an indie film. i have all the video equipment and I do know a budding screen writer.
What shall we call it?
Sociopath. The Mythological Creature.
any other ideas?
Erin we’ll need your money to finance the film. You will make a profit – trust me – erin pookie baby. xxx
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 11:27pm
ErinBrock says:
Henry:
Yep…..bait and switch….pick a fight and leave you scratching your head…..running around trying to prove it wasn’t anything you had done….and kepe getting slammed!
Yep….the s did it all the time….from the time we were first dating…..I couldn’t understand how he could think I was such a bad girlfriend…..so rather than regaining my balance and putting it back on him….and questioning him…..I ran around trying to show him how faithful I was……how dedicated to him I was….surely he could see that……
What a slooooowwwww learner I was! Damn, I had NO BUSINESS marrying the farcker……28 years???? Heeellllloooooo EB!
Oh, those were the days….the OLD EB…..
Henry….I would NEVER do that to you…..I would CATCH YOUR SORRY ASS in the ACT with video and pics and post it all over the news and make YOU leave!!!! Then, I would have my fun!
yes….that was definately a diversion……and also offered him an aliby when/if he was caught messing around……WELL HE CHEATED ON ME IN THE BARN….I found the condoms!
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 11:28pm
henry says:
amber no animals other than chickens – the condoms were opened and removed from wrapper and laying side by side. They were UNUSED condoms, hell if i was going to go to that length to have an excuse to leave I would of at least blown them up and tossed them about..
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 11:29pm
skylar says:
Julie Roberts would play EB because she looks almost exactly like her. EB told me she did. She promised.
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 11:29pm
ErinBrock says:
Oh….a battery opperated silicone skillet wielding Istanbullian boy!!!!
No less!
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 11:31pm
ErinBrock says:
Yeah…..I promise, Cross my heart and hope a P dies…….
Huh
What
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 11:32pm
ErinBrock says:
So….I guess the first order of business with the money would be to find a plastic surgeon and a good picture of Julia Roberts……
Maybe 10 plastic surgeons might be in order….looking at it realistically.
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 11:33pm
henry says:
the condom thing is so obvious to me now, but at the time I wasnt sure what to think..it really was like an episode of the twilight zone – or do any of you remember the twilight zone?
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 11:35pm
witsend says:
I do…It is a sure sign of age..
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 11:38pm
skylar says:
No my love, you’re perfect the way you are. And I have a friend in tijuana who works for cheap. He’ll make you look like Angelina Jolie for half price.
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 11:38pm
geminigirl says:
Hell, henry, weve ALL been living in the Twilight zone for so long,it got to feel like an old peoples rest home!! Gem.XX
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 11:40pm
henry says:
And while I am spilling my guts again, I think he drugged me with sleeping pills. He never slept and kept me sleep deprived ( Ihave read the is is a tactic in brainwashing) well I went to the doc and got sleeping pills so I could sleep and function at work and life in general. well he started taking them too which was ok with me, but Some morning I could not even get out of bed i felt so drugged…any many times went we went to bed he would say did you take your pill sugarbooger? (yes that was what he called me) well one nite I woke up withhoirrible cramps and he was not in bed but on the puter like at 3 AM…….
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 11:41pm
henry says:
i should of checked my spelling on that last post sorry
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 11:43pm
witsend says:
henry,
The condom thing was a set up. He projects his anger onto you and starts a fight…..
They point the finger at you that you did something WRONG but in reality he was going out to do something wrong.
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 11:45pm
ErinBrock says:
SUGERBOOGER?????
I was called BIG MAMMA!
very Julia Roberts like huh?
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 11:48pm
witsend says:
Henry
OMG,
didn’t his mother call him a booger? so he just added a “sugar” to that?
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 11:51pm
henry says:
i dont think he ever called me by name, hell maybe he didnt know it…
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 11:52pm
henry says:
yes Wit – she reffered to him as a Booger – he should of called me sugardaddy or dumbass, it would of fit me much better..
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 11:53pm
amber says:
It’s so nice to sit around and share crazy stories of those AHOLES!! No one else understands when I tell them insane stories of his antics. And for once my stories aren’t the craziest!! WAHHOOO!!! LOL!
EB..I did the same thing..I played the good GF..but thank jesus we weren’t married. I couldn’t imagine 28 years of him. And Kudos for looking anything like Julia Roberts.
And henry.. I was just kidding about the animals…but seriously what a nuttcase to try and frame you with condoms in the barn…
And yes…do do do do..do do do do…I’m singing the twilight zone song if you can’t figure it out…
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 11:53pm
skylar says:
my xP was stealing my sleeping pills a bit at a time. He was planning on collecting enough so that he could put them in my wine all at once and then say I committed suicide.
One time, I said, “you know P, I’ve been sick for so long and don’t know what’s wrong. If I ever die, I definitely want a full autopsy so that maybe they can figure out why I’ve been sick all these years.”
He replied, “NO, I would never allow my honey’s body to be opened up and examined.”
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 11:54pm
heavenbound says:
It’s like they all went to the same school…the p’s.
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 1 November 2009 @ 11:57pm
amber says:
And mine rarely called me by name either…is that a way to give us the warm fuzzies…he loves me so much he has cute nic names for me?? I got Pookie, pookenstien, pook (all variations you see) doll face (which I later found in texts that he was calling another girl) sugartits (after mell gibson called the women cop that) Boo (which I later found out was what another girl called him) baby love, machacha sucia (I won’t even go there)..oh my god the list goes on…it was ever changing..but mostly pookie..that was the only constant..
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 2 November 2009 @ 12:00am
ErinBrock says:
AMBER…..
Discloser…..Julia Roberts is SKYLARS fantasy…….
OMG….you would be disgusted to meet me in person if you are remotely thinking I resemble her……
I resemble……hmmmmmm more of a Julia Childs!!!!
No accent!
Huh
What
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 2 November 2009 @ 12:00am
henry says:
He did have his highschool year book – one of his prized possesions, He was voted Most Likely to Succeed – and best looking…..and most outgoing.
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 2 November 2009 @ 12:02am
henry says:
pookie? ah thats so sweet – kill the bastards!!!!!!!!!!!
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 2 November 2009 @ 12:03am
heavenbound says:
I had a time when i could not stand without fainting and if i laid down i could not sleep. My heart was racing and my legs hurt i can’t explain it all.
a couple of months ago my docter put me on a muscle relaxer for fibromyalgia. I had the same problem…turns out I was having a bad reaction to the med
strange huh?
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 2 November 2009 @ 12:04am
witsend says:
Henry,
My take on the not calling by names is if they are cheating they don’t mess up and call you by the wrong name.
With pet names its easier not to get caught.
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 2 November 2009 @ 12:04am
amber says:
Exactly…F-ing JERK!!! I couldn’t believe when I found other texts of him calling other girls MY pet names!!!OHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!! I swear to god if he called someone else pookie…I’ll cut his little balls off and feed them to him…AARRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!
Ok moment has passed.
And didn’t Julia Childs have a big skillet?!?! HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 2 November 2009 @ 12:09am
ErinBrock says:
Heaven….
DID YOU EVER HAVE YOUR THYROID LEVELS CHECKED???
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 2 November 2009 @ 12:09am
henry says:
Yes Witsend your right on spot with that.
Heavenbound – There is know telling what we dont know. I think the ENORMITY of their deceit is what has left me feeling so twilightzonish. When I look back now with a clearer mind it is astonishing, absolutely mind boggling at what he did – right under my frickin nose…….
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 2 November 2009 @ 12:10am
ErinBrock says:
I graduated from snuggles to BIG MAMMA!
That was a proud moment???
WHAT THE HELL???
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 2 November 2009 @ 12:11am
henry says:
no telling – know telling duh
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 2 November 2009 @ 12:11am
witsend says:
Julia Childs has LOTS of skillets
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 2 November 2009 @ 12:11am
henry says:
Oh I bet Julia Childs could chew up a spath and make bar b q sauce out of him..she was a big ole gal…
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 2 November 2009 @ 12:14am
ErinBrock says:
Yes…..shhhhhsshhh….but none with batteries I”M SURE!
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 2 November 2009 @ 12:14am
witsend says:
I’m thinkin Julia would drive em crazy with that voice….
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 2 November 2009 @ 12:15am
henry says:
bone app a teet? excuse my french
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 2 November 2009 @ 12:16am
witsend says:
Oh no those aren’t at market yet….Them skillets need some good advertising….We want people standing in lines during the holidays for them.
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 2 November 2009 @ 12:18am
henry says:
where is Star? she started this whole skillet thing
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 2 November 2009 @ 12:25am
amber says:
She’s working hard making the prototype for the version that is going to come out before x-mas…
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 2 November 2009 @ 12:27am
witsend says:
Star must be talking to the advertising people.
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 2 November 2009 @ 12:28am
witsend says:
Guys you are a hoot, but I’m on that dang eastern time. And 6am is round the corner….
‘Night…xoxoxo
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 2 November 2009 @ 12:30am
henry says:
and Oxy? where is she? I think we have totally embarrassed her. All the hard work she has done trying to make us grow up and look at us– I bet she is shaking her head in shame..
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 2 November 2009 @ 12:32am
henry says:
gnite Witsend
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Monday, 2 November 2009 @ 12:35am
skylar says:
gnite Wit.
I’m passing out too. The xp just called and I gave him the time of day. so to get him off the phone, I had to play the coldplay song viva la vida. It always makes him hang up.
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 2 November 2009 @ 12:36am
henry says:
HeavenBound seems so stressed. I really dont know all the specifics of her plight. I would like to offer her support but dont know where to jump in. I am glad you all are here for her..I think she needs to chill for awhile.
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 2 November 2009 @ 12:39am
persephone7 says:
Henry – spath is a good word…How about using the skillet and ‘Deck the
Spath with boughs of holly, fa la la la la lalalala….’
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 2 November 2009 @ 12:39am
heavenbound says:
Erin,
Yes everytime I go to the docter they suggest it and run tests, they check for anemia and vitamin d and I can’t think…but they always bring it up because I always looked so sickly, except now… I look alot better, or that’s what everyone says and the docter said so just the other day!
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 2 November 2009 @ 12:40am
henry says:
persephone7 fa la la la la lmao
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Monday, 2 November 2009 @ 12:41am
heavenbound says:
henry
your right I do need to chill for awhile. I’ll go to bed for now
Thank you for caring!
Thank all of you for caring and for your help
Goodnight I love you all, heavenbound
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 2 November 2009 @ 12:46am
persephone7 says:
Obviously I need sleep. all the best to you, Heavenbound, Henry and all.
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 2 November 2009 @ 12:49am
amber says:
HAHAHAHA!!! Deck the spath…serioulsy…we are some of the funniest people I know. I’m glad we still have our sense of humor.
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 2 November 2009 @ 12:49am
ErinBrock says:
On a serious note…..
One trick they use is the old Hang up calls….or no speaking…
Yes…we’ve all been there!
My ex used to say hello, hello hellllloooooo over and over, louder and louder….
Uh, yes, they can hear you….they just are choosing NOT to speak…..it might be a husband of an affair he had….seeing who his wife spoke with earlier…..
Okay…..One thing I learned is when you get a call ONLY SAY HELLO ONCE….ONCE…..that’s it….Your NOT going to HELLO someone into talking……or by asking ‘is anyone there’…..
This takes our minds into the twilight zone…..and off balance…..
We are much more likely to give up information when we are off balance….
Each time your saying hello…..your thinking gee….who is this…I wonder if it’s…your mind is racing….trying to recognize the number on caller ID…..totally off balance…
If someone is calling you looking for info….by the time they speak, and your off balance…heres how it goes….
Hello, hello, heeeeellllllloooooo, is anyone there……(listen)
(them) hello, hello….oh, yes, I’m sorry…what’s your mailing address…..
You……Blurt it right out…..
followed with…..who is this…….
KABOOM….they have the info…..they hang up……
Or they act confused and say…..uh, Marie….and you willingly correct them and say…NO this is EB……
Bam…they got your name…..and that might just be all the information they needed.
You just never know why someone is calling……if they don’t speak….you don’t either….do not let your curiosity get the better of you…..HELLO once…….wait a second-no speaking…simply hang up………
You won’t believe how much information people will give out…..NOT EVEN KNOWING WHO IN THE HELL THEY ARE SPEAKING TO!!!!
THANK YOU VERY MUCH….goodbye…..
Remain safe on all levels…….
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 2 November 2009 @ 3:40am
ErinBrock says:
The key thing is about control…..future control and current….and as someone stated….to disguise as I just knew one day you would lose your keys. Oh, they are known to be soooo helpful.
I highly recommend making copies of thier keys….counter control!!! (2 sets) keep one full set off site……
Make sure, prior to separation, if your going to be involved in ‘fighting’ for possessions……that you have extra keys for everything……
The S took my car and THANK GOD I had spares of his and mine and extra alarm sensors thingy’s……because after repeated attempts to requiest my vehicle back…..he wouldn’t…..so I did recon in the middle of the night in a snowstorm, when I knew he would be a cozied up with a new victim by the fire…….and vroommmmm…..switched cars….had the locks changed and the alarm reset…..
You can change the code on your garage door openers VERY EASILY too……if you have an opener programmed into your car….look in the auto manual……the instructions for the actual opener unit is online….it’s easy…..
Also….all new openers have a LOCK button on them and they can’t be opened from the outside…….when you arrive home….just press the lock button on the wall button.
I did this….because he also wouldn’t return my garage door opener…..so I just recoded it!
None of this is hard (all do it yourself!)…….but necessary!
(Always change out your locks after they get the boot)…..That’s easy too……you can do it yourself….REALLY!
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 2 November 2009 @ 6:17am
witsend says:
Anybody up this early? When I let my dogs out for the last time last night (my little one didn’t want to go) the big dog came in a few minutes later whinning. And acted like he was in pain. I looked him over real good and couldn’t see anything. He had a hard time going up the stairs. (he sleeps with my son)
He woke up at about 4 am whinning loudly. OMG…My son was yelling at him for waking him up. I was trying to calm the dog down.
I’m calling the vet now. This morning it looked like he couldn’t go to the bathroom.
I am worried
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 2 November 2009 @ 8:05am
heavenbound says:
yes I’m up…I’m sorry your dog is in pain. It sounds like a bladder infection? I wonder why the little one would not go out.
Stay calm.
I’d call the vet too, so see what they say
Love, hugs, and prayers, heavenbound
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 2 November 2009 @ 8:15am
kim frederick says:
Witsend, prayers for your dog! Sometimes I feel more compassion for animals than humans. Hopefully it’s nothing serious. Please let us know when you get back from the vet.
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 2 November 2009 @ 8:32am
ErinBrock says:
Oh Witsend….I hope all turns out okay for your baby…..
and the little one is okay too……
I’m thinking about you……
XXOO
EB
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 2 November 2009 @ 8:46am
witsend says:
He has an appointment but not till 3. The little dog sometimes doesn’t go out when its late, heaven. Shes already snoozin…
He could pee but not poop. The reason I’m worried is I made chicken soup the other day (remember Kim ) and I caught him trying to mess with the garbage and get the lid off. I am wondering if he got at the chicken bones before I caught him messing with the lid?
Would it take a few days to do this, I wonder? Seems to me as he has blockage?
My sons reaction to the dogs pain of course is very disturbing. NO compassion whatsoever. This is the very dog that keeps him warm at night.
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 2 November 2009 @ 8:51am
witsend says:
Could chicken bones do this? Anyone know? I don’t give my dog bones of anykind.
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Monday, 2 November 2009 @ 8:53am
skylar says:
Witsend, I’m going to say what you are already thinking: could your son have hurt the dog?
Yeah, actually it’s very likely. Can you tell if he’s having trouble walking? Can you press along his spine or tailbone area and see if there is pain? Check all the areas where a blow or a kick could land.
My P-brother killed kittens by kicking them across the room when he was young.
And after I discovered what my xP was, I realized that he had been beating our dog. Our german shepard was always afraid of anyone raising their arms. He also would wimper whenever the xP was upset. He was nervous around the xP.
XP explained to me that he had previously been owned by a man who beat him and therefore was afraid of men, but not women.
The dog died over 12 years ago.
The truth, I now understand, is that he beat him when I wasn’t around.
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 2 November 2009 @ 9:02am
ErinBrock says:
I would be surprised if it took this long.
Chicken bones splinter….this is why animals shouldn’t be given chicken bones….as opposed to bee bones or whatever…
If he has pooped since, I would say your pretty safe…..
IS he an older dog?
It’s really hard to tell……sorry I couldn’t be more help.
I woulldn’t worry about the son right now….just focus on your doggie…..
You can help the dog….not your son……
GOOD LUCK!!!
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 2 November 2009 @ 9:14am
witsend says:
Skylar,
Well I let the dog out and he seemed fine when he went out. My first thought, when he came in whinning was that he had met up with a coon or something.
Thats why I looked him over so well. And when he came in he also had his tail tucked between his legs.
This morning he could not poop and he was trying but not stooping down as far as usual. Kind of an awkward stoop. Like he was hurting.
IDK, whats wrong, other than the not being able to go to the bathroom. And something hurts. He feels a little bloated, possibly.
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 2 November 2009 @ 9:14am
henry says:
wit – sounds to me like he may have hurt him self last nite, if all the dogs acted funny when they went out and whinned etc, it could very well of been a coon or a bigger dog. speciallly if the garbage attracts other animals and varments etc. The chicken bones are not good for them but I doubt that is the problem, if it was he would be coughing and gagging – regardless take him to vet.. and dont put garbage such as food products out to attract coons, keep that kind of waste frozen until garbage day…
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 2 November 2009 @ 10:03am
henry says:
what kind of dog is it?
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Monday, 2 November 2009 @ 10:05am
witsend says:
henry,
He’s a dalmation. A good sized dalmation. I HATE seeing animals in pain. He has been quiet for awile now but looks miserable. And he has no interest in food. And he is usually a PIG. Sometimes he shivers, like dogs do when they are in pain.
I wish I could have gotten an earlier appointment.
He is very difficult to load up in the vehicle.
I hope I don’t have a problem getting him in. Mid to back end seems to be the problem area.
The garbage that he tried to get at the other day was in the house though not the outside garbage can.
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 2 November 2009 @ 10:36am
OxDrover says:
Sometimes dogs can eat rubber bands or other things like that that will twist up in their intestines. I have never had a problem with any kind of bones with my larger dogs. THINK FOLKS, what do “dogs” i.e. wolves, eat in the wild? BONES, DUH! Little dogs can get a bone hung in their throat because dogs do not “chew” their food well before they swallow it as a general rule, especially if they are hungry or it is some kind of meat scraps that they love.
Wit let us know how he is this afternoon after you get back from the vet! Keeping my fingers crossed! Love Oxy
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 2 November 2009 @ 10:37am
witsend says:
Oxy,
Many years ago I had a one year old irish setter and she ate an open staple. We didn’t even own a stapler…It did hook on her intestine. You could see a staple as clear as day in the x ray. She couldn’t go to the bathroom either. She wouldn’t eat, but I think she was aslo throwing up, if I remember correctly.
Chicken bones are so sharp that is why I thought of that. And if he DID manage to dig a few out of the garbage I would imagine he INHAILED them (not chewed) before I would catch him.
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 2 November 2009 @ 10:44am
henry says:
the way you described the other dogs reaction etc. and the fact he cant get in the poop position tells me it is a back problem .. i bet he got in a fight with a critter of some kind and the other dog was also skeered, so vet will give u best advice – my little ten pound weiner Posey thinks she can take on a bear – she’s like piranha in heat when other dogs come around…
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 2 November 2009 @ 10:53am
amber says:
Ohh no wit…I’m so sorry to hear about your doggie. Well, hopefully it’s not a blockage…..but just about 2 weeks ago my friend’s lab was eating rocks. They said, “we saw a rock in his poo!” And I told them that it could become serious…and sure enough last week he was trying to poo and was whinning like he was in a lot of pain and couldn’t go. Became lethargic and I advised them to go to the vet and get an ex ray…and sure enough..ROCKS! Total blockage. Hopefully if he did eat chicken bones they would pass, but that doesn’t mean that he didn’t pick something else up out of the trash? Or maybe from the yard? Sometimes I find my dog chewing on something, and I can’t figure out what lead her to pick it up in the first place! Just make your poor baby comfortable for now and get him to the vet. Hugs.
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 2 November 2009 @ 11:30am
persephone7 says:
Witsend: Sorry to hear about your dog, hope he’ll be better by today.
Could you call vet back and just ask them for earlier appointment if they
get cancellation – and let them know how he’s looking now to you? I’ve
gotten to be more a squeaky wheel in my old age and if you approach it
nicely but firmly, they may fit you in earlier. Good luck to you.
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 2 November 2009 @ 11:46am
witsend says:
Dog update: He has an injury to his back. (poss spinal) And it is affecting his back legs. How he does with early treatment is important.
When he first looked at the dog he thought it so/so because the dog had the adreniline thing going on. He left the room to get a shot (anti inflamatory) and was gone for awile and when he came back the dog had calmed down (alot) and he saw his back legs were funny. And he walks kind of hunch backed.
He said he was in alot of pain. The dog was over compensating by hunching, to relieve the back end.
He gave him 3 meds one of them a steroid.
He told me to watch the back legs carefully. See if back legs continue to look bow legged. And to put his feet backwards to test if he will make the correction.
Worst possible case senerio. He could be paralized. Best case senerio. Responds within 2/3 days to the treatment.
Skylar: I asked him how this injury could have happened? He said just about anything. Like a person hurting their back. He could have missed a stair when going up or down the stairs.
When he went outdoors yesterday he could have ran around the back yard and one paw could have hit a low spot or a hole or???
He said any number of things.
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 2 November 2009 @ 5:32pm
skylar says:
Witsend,
the only way you will know for sure is if you put hidden cameras in the house.
My german shepard ended up with hip dysplasia, but I’m not so sure that it didn’t begin and end with beatings from the xP.
My shepard when I was a teenager, was beaten by my p-brother, he didn’t even try to hide it. He bragged that he could train her better than anyone. And he could. He beat her til she obeyed. The doctor also called her problem hip dysplasia.
no doctor is going to accuse you or your son of beating your dog. It won’t even occur to him just like it never occured to me until 12 years after the dog died and I realized what the xP was like.
I know you have enough on your plate, but if you could manage surveillance cameras it might come in handy for all kinds of evidence, not just this.
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 2 November 2009 @ 7:02pm
henry says:
witsend – I think your dog will be ok – my 3 weiners have alot of back problems off and on – just keep him calm if possible – now didnt Henry tell you he thot it was his back? nic nac paddy wak give a dog a bone…
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 2 November 2009 @ 7:02pm
witsend says:
henry
if you could have RX the meds I could have saved alot of money! I think weiners are known for having back problems aren’t they?
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 2 November 2009 @ 7:14pm
witsend says:
henry,
He almost seems better since just the shot. But the doc WARNED me that if he started to get less lathargic, I needed to keep him calm. Him feeling better to soon could also do more damage.
NO running in yard. Must go potty on a leash. NO STAIRS.
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 2 November 2009 @ 7:18pm
henry says:
yes they are Dachshunds have one extra vertabra (sp) hey I have a whole drawer full of doggie pills – but witsend if it was your son that hurt your dog you would know it – if the dog cowars down and avoids your son then you know he is mis treating him – but the way you described the accident it was outside and then different when he came back in – arent dalmations very hyper?
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 2 November 2009 @ 7:19pm
OxDrover says:
Sub-clinical hip dysplasia can show up in later life in some dogs, esp big dogs.
Depending on where in teh spine the problem is he could hv paralyzed bowels, just like in humans. If it seems like he is hving trouble pooping, you can put on a greased rubber glove and run your finiger up his butt to stimulate the muscles to ‘move” his bowels, just wiggle it around in circles inside the rectum for about 10-15 seconds and see if that helps. Sorry to be so graphic guys.
Hope he does better Witsend! Love Oxy
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 2 November 2009 @ 7:22pm
henry says:
Oxy ~~~!!! I knew you were KINKY~!
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Monday, 2 November 2009 @ 7:31pm
witsend says:
skylar,
shepards are known for hip dysplasia, unfortunately alot of the larger breeds have this ailment. Much of this is from overbreeding as well. My uncle raised german shepard show dogs for years. They are soooooo intelligent.
I knew he wasn’t going to come right out and say someone beat the dog….I just HAD to ask this question because my dog is getting older but this is his first big “problem” he has ever had. I wanted to see what the vet would say.
I can tell you one interesting FACT. I never take this dog to the vet alone. I usually always brought my son because the dog is not good in the vehicle. But the last few times my son has done nothing but yell at the dog and create more turmoil.
and of course the more I asked him not to yell at the dog while I’m driving the more he would.
The dog won’t stay in the back ect, very restless. Doesn’t really enjoy the ride ect.
Today I took him by myself.
Well he WAS pretty sick but I couldn’t believe he never even TRIED coming in the front seat. Even on the way home when he was feeling a bit better after the shot. I had so much EASIER time with the dog in the vehicle I couldn’t BELIEVE it.
That dog really loves my son but I think he also senses a real fear of him.
I, on the other hand could yell at the dog. And I rarely yell at the dog so you would think he WOULD react. Like when he was trying to get in the garbage. The dog totally ignored me….The food in the garbage was more interesting to him than reacting to me yelling.
He has no reason to fear me.
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 2 November 2009 @ 7:41pm
witsend says:
Henry,
He was a hyper puppy but he is older now and my other dog is really old so they do ALOT of laying around.
Yes he did come in from being outdoors and had this problem.
I was suspicious of my son mistreating the dog (not necessarily beating him) a few weeks ago because the dog GROWLED at my son and I was right there. My son was trying to be real CONTROLLING with the dog and forcing him (by holding him) to do something. And of course when the dog growled at him he got really mad.
Henry, this dog HAS never growled at a soul. He is a wimp. Your little dog could take my big dog! (unless food was involved).
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 2 November 2009 @ 7:52pm
henry says:
wit – my x was very good with my dogs – in front of me anyway – i have no idea how he treated them when I was not here – posey picked up a few habits I didnt aprove of – like humping my leg at nite in bed – your son sounds like a booger to me – sorry no offense.
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 2 November 2009 @ 8:00pm
amber says:
Wit..glad to hear you have a diagnosis for the pooch. Poor guy.
Hope he feels better.
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 2 November 2009 @ 8:34pm
skylar says:
Witsend,
I just know that they are angry and hateful and bullies, so they will hurt animals. I don’t know if my xP would hurt cats, but I think he would do that too. Even though he loves them, I think he will hurt them.
One day, out of the blue, he said, “sometimes, I worry that I’m going to do something to hurt one of the cats.”
My brain had become used to making excuses for him by this time. I just didn’t want to face what I knew he was, so I said, ‘oh honey, sometimes people have terrible thoughts like that because they are so afraid of something bad happening that they imagine themselves doing it, just to get it over with. That’s normal honey, don’t worry, you would never actually do it.”
….riiiight.
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 2 November 2009 @ 8:35pm
justabouthealed says:
Witsend…We had a dog that got paralyzed on and off from back problems. One time was so bad that my husband was taught by the vet how to catharize him, just to see if the movement would come back, and it did. Bought us several more years.
Good luck!
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 2 November 2009 @ 9:09pm
witsend says:
Justabouthealed,
I am hoping that I won’t have to learn that! My dog is so sweet, I feel so bad.
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 2 November 2009 @ 11:57pm
PInow says:
One day, out of the blue, he said, “sometimes, I worry that I’m going to do something to hurt one of the cats.” Skylar, Mine said exact same thing about my whole family. Simply put, he realized one day that we were not safe with him around. And I responded much like you did: Something sweet, with the word “honey” and “you don’t really mean what you said”… RRRRRRIGHT
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 3 November 2009 @ 12:03am
witsend says:
skylar,
One of the doctors orders was the dog can’t go up the stairs. If I could break the dog from going up there during his time of healing, maybe the dog will stay downstairs to sleep from now on.
That would be the best thing that could happen. The dog is a creature of habit and goes upstairs to sleep on my sons bed. Even during the day when he is at school.
Can you teach an old dog new tricks……Hopefully.
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 3 November 2009 @ 12:06am
henry says:
The X had this scar on his head, a huge long scar and it showed because he kept his hair cut very short. I asked him how he got it and he said a jealous trick was stalking him and broke into his house and hit him on the head with a lamp., and he called the police and they took the jealous trick to jail. He also said that was a time of his life he didnt like talking about. Fast forward – X would talk about another guy named Kieth that he was with for 6 years, he had nothing but good things to say about Kieth. He said they just grew apart and agreed to separate. He said he would like to contact Kieth and see how he was doing. Fast forward – not long ago I was introduced to Keith as one of my X’s ex BF’s. Keith and I had a long conversation – turns out Keith gave our X the scar on the head and nobody went to jail. Keith said if he ever saw him again he would give him another scar to match.. hmm and my x had such fond memorys of Kieth…
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 3 November 2009 @ 12:06am
Isabell says:
henry,
The first time I met my ex’s (now wife) 14 years ago, he stuck his finger in his mouth, like he was going to gag. Implying she grossed him out. Truth is, she’s been in his life our entire marriage. And, now she’s married to him.
My point…. my ex has fond memories of someone he professed to “gag” him. They are freakin liars. Their smoke screens are spectacularly effective.
I expect the N/S he’s now married to, will kick him to the curb, soon enough. She’s after his ultimate inheritance. I’ll have so many liens on his inheritence, she will be lucky to keep her own house, after I’ve put a lien on it. ::: impish grin::: Sorry. I’m enjoying a moment of personal power via details. I’ve been living in hiding for nearly five years. It feels good to be in this position of power.
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 3 November 2009 @ 3:30am
witsend says:
henry,
Your X sounds like he had told that “story” enough times that he convinced himself of the lie.
I still swear that much of the time they believe their own lies. Yeah they throw in the lies of convienience when they have to.
It’s just a very distorted mind set they walk around this earth with.
If I SAY it happened-it happened.
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 3 November 2009 @ 7:45am
skylar says:
Witsend, Henry,
That’s the conclusion that I’m coming to as well, they need a story to tell and to believe and to fall in love with. It has to have romance and they are the hero.
I’ve also determined that the only way to deal with a P is to tell them a story too. Make it a story that they can integrate into their belief system. It seems to be the only way to communicate with them. They need drama all the time.
“So this one time, at band camp….”
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 3 November 2009 @ 7:59am
witsend says:
skylar,
I remember when I first came here, the lying about EVERYTHING was just something I could NOT wrap my brain around.
But when I discovered he really did believe his own lies and was caught up in a “lack of reality” WORLD that I knew nothing about…..That is when I KNEW that this was something so much bigger than I could have ever imagined.
But I am tired of the “stories”. I don’t want to make up stories for him to integrate into his belief system.
I want to live in the REAL world again.
Skylar by trying to “integrate” into their belief system isn’t that just buying into the “never, never land” that they reside in?
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 3 November 2009 @ 8:28am
skylar says:
Witsend, I think about it this way:
If you make a japanese friend and you want him to learn english, you would learn a few japanese words too, so that you can at least have some communication.
If your japanese friend was a child, his brain would learn english automatically because children can, but adults need more help.
You obviously can’t live in never-never land with them, but I would hope that you can start by giving them some of the romance/drama they want and then slowly lead them toward reality.
When I saw my P last weekend, I was very nice to him. He was completely distraught by my presence because he looked and smelled like crap and he knew it. He didn’t want me to see him as less than his veneer. Suddenly out of the blue, he reminded me that he has a gift with mechanics and that I and my family will probably be needing my help soon when the world falls apart but he won’t be around because he’s moving to montana or to a foriegn country. At first I thought maybe it’s a veiled threat, but later realized it was a story that romanticized his abilities because his appearance was so disgusting. It might also BE a veiled threat because in his story, he may decide to sabotage my car or something to remind me of how useful he had once been. My response to him was, “yes, honey (that’s what I call him still and he hates it.) I know that you have more abilities than most people. That’s why I know that you can choose not to be a sociopath and succeed, because you’re better than the average sociopath.” So, I didn’t lie, I just added to his story with some semi-truth. I really don’t think he can succeed, but that’s MY story.
I reminded him that St. Paul was a murderer before he bacame a saint. He’s completely befuddled at this point, because his stories aren’t getting through to me, but mine are invading his brain. They’re called memes and all of us are infected by them. The difference is that some memes are not helpful and some of them are. P-memes are not helpful.
http://memecentral.com/
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Tuesday, 3 November 2009 @ 9:10am
skylar says:
correction, I meant to say:
that I and my family will probably be needing HIS help soon when the world falls apart
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 3 November 2009 @ 9:12am
witsend says:
skylar,
But in the long run what is the point? Isn’t this at some level entertaining the idea that they can change?
Do you really, believe this?
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Tuesday, 3 November 2009 @ 9:46am
witsend says:
skylar,
I guess what I am trying to say that any involvement with them brings back the rush of emotions and they try to suck you in their “stories” and have to try and avoid their “game plan”.
And the energy used to stay one step ahead and “play” their own little game with them….
What happened to grey rock? Why keep the communication open with your Ex? If you don’t have to?
I am curious, not judging you….Because I don’t understand.
I am curious because at this time in my life I have to live with the disorder all “around” me. And its always trying to suck me in.
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Tuesday, 3 November 2009 @ 9:57am
skylar says:
Wit,
the point is to find out.
the point is wanting to know.
the point is that this personality disorder is pervasive and it’s not going to go away if we run and hide.
They are everywhere, from your kid to your spouse, your boss, the congressman, the grocery checkout clerk. They’re going to keep popping up and figuring out how to handle the one in your home will give you the power to deal with the ones you run into in the wild.
In my case, you could say, “go NC”, but he is never really going to go away. He will spend years plotting his revenge, it’s what he does.
In your case you have between 2 -14 months in which you need to survive with this in your home. You can consider it a prison sentence or you can look at it as an opportunity to learn.
I’m not discounting your feelings and sadness about your situation. I have that too. But they aren’t doing me any good anymore. So I try to turn it off and turn on my intellectual curiosity to help me deal with it.
No guarantees it will work, but i will learn something either way.
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Tuesday, 3 November 2009 @ 9:58am
skylar says:
Wit,
I just saw your second post.
I use grey rock too when it’s called for.
He will get emotion when I choose to give it to him and he will get intellectual discussion when I choose.
Now that I know what he is, he can’t bait me into a drama scene. I already know everything on the surface is fake. My hopes is that I can seed a new, more benign, story into his brain, because the one that’s growing there now is full of hatred and rage and vengance. It’s dangerous to walk away and let it grow. Remember, he put 25 years into a plan to make me commit suicide and keep my house. He involved many neighbors in the scheme and probably feels that they are laughing at him. When it comes to him, I am cold and calculating – just like he is.
Sometimes when I’m by myself, I cry for a bit, let it out and then turn back to cold.
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Tuesday, 3 November 2009 @ 10:07am
OxDrover says:
Dear Skylar,
No it is not going to go away if we run and hide, but we are NOT going to change it, not going to truly understand it.
By interacting with them in anyway ANY way, you are doing the same thing you would be if you were playing with a RATTLE SNAKE and trying to udnerstand why it was the way it was, how to manage it so you didn’t get bitten, understand WHY it bites…..
Learn from other’s experience and save yourself some poison bites and go NO CONTACT with these people. By trying to stay ini the lives of these people and trying to “out smart them at their own game” you are perpetuating the pain in YOUR LIFE.
Arguing or interacting with a psychopath is like trying to teach a pig to sing, it frustrates you and pithes off the pig!
As long as you continue to try to “figure out” a way to “know” and “figuring out how to handle one in your home” is FUTILE, the only way to handle one is to stay as far away as possible.
Wit is sort of trapped until hers leaves because he is a minor, but anyone else who has one in their home and lets it stay is ASKING FOR TROUBLE.
Wake up Sky, and smell the coffee—it is like pithing in the wind, it will come back and hit you in the face!
Remember “Intellectual curosity killed the cat”
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Tuesday, 3 November 2009 @ 10:18am
henry says:
Thank you all for listening to my ramblings about some the bizzare episodes involving the X. The barn and condoms thing, the scar. These little quirky things he did that just kinda hang in my memory. It has been theraputic to discuss them. Only here I am not looked at as crazy or judged for the things I say or did…Big HUG to all
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Tuesday, 3 November 2009 @ 10:21am
skylar says:
Henry,
sheesh! that’s no more bizarre than the crazy stuff that’s happened to ALL of us. We love hearing your stories.
Oxy,
being here on LF and reading books has helped me to “get” him so much better. None of this info came from NC, it came from contact with P’s. I was able to “stare him down” when he said he wanted money for my house. First it was $70thous, then $30, then 10 plus the RV, now he says I can have everything because he is giving it to me out of the goodness of his heart.
Without the information I’ve learned, I would’ve been freaking out from the first threat. I just ignored him and he dropped the subject.
For the first time in years my interaction with the P is without drama. I don’t react to the drama, so he dropped it. He tries the pity ploy still, but I just follow it up with, “yes, it is hard being a sociopath, you need to learn a different way to live.”
It’s very upsetting to him that often I’ll point out certain behaviors to him, “see? you’re doing that because you’re a sociopath, you’re being predictable. All sociopaths do that.”
He got mad and said, “you say that about everything I do, I’m scratching my kneecap, is that because I’m a sociopath?”
See, he’s getting confused. He doesn’t want to be predictable.
LOL.
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 3 November 2009 @ 10:37am
witsend says:
skylar,
I think you and I have that constant drive to understand people, places, and things. I know for me understanding something (at least to the best of my ability) is key to my acceptance.
I lived with alcoholics for a good part of my life before I finally “got it”. (again, to the best of my ability)
But once I wrap my brain around the fact that an apple isn’t an orange….Then I got to accept that. I can’t make applesauce out of an orange. Nor can I make orange juice from an apple.
Being subject to having a personality disordered person in our lives changes us. It is one of those life altering experiences. We might never think the same way about things again.
The thing I fear in your plan with your Ex is that you have everything to loose and nothing to gain.
HE IS cold and calculating. He’s not playing a role…Thats what he is. He spent 25 years of his life trying to “do you in”.
Poison you….give you reason to take your own life. That is SERIOUS stuff.
You are now taking on a role to try and sow seeds and try and create him a new “story”.
By your own admission you are trying to set aside your emotions and BE COLD and calculating just like him. In order to deal with him. Why subject yourself to try to be like him on any level now?
Remember that it TOOK 25 years to escalate to the man you knew when you left. The thing is by hanging in there now it will continue to escalate. He doesn’t HAVE to wear the mask with you. He is aware that you know what he is. I think that makes him more dangerous, not less. It is not like an S/P/N makes themselves more vulnerable by loosing the mask. And in HIS DISORDERED thinking I’m sure he feels more powerful.
Think about it. If you are thinking he is less powerful because you have disclosed to him that you KNOW what he is. That means he thinks the opposite. He is feeling more powerful.
Why risk this? What is the best case senerio of this? Now think about the worst case senerio.
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Tuesday, 3 November 2009 @ 10:41am
Rosa says:
Personally, I do NOT view going No Contact as “running & hiding”.
That implies weakness, and I disagree with the notion that going No Contact is a sign of weakness.
On the contrary, I believe going No Contact is actually taking back one’s own POWER, and moving forward in life with a healthy mind/spirit.
Once you break free from a sociopath, you are now open to healthy, productive, & functioning relationships.
You can now reach your full potential, which is actually one of the most POWERFUL things you can do for yourself.
No Contact is also very POWERFUL, because it reduces the psychopath’s sphere of influence. One less person for them to manipulate and lie to.
When there is no one left to buy into the psychopath’s agenda, how can they do anything? Their supply and resources have been depleted.
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Tuesday, 3 November 2009 @ 10:59am
henry says:
Rosa – No contact is our only weapon and our ultimate salvation.
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Tuesday, 3 November 2009 @ 11:02am
Rosa says:
Henry:
High Five!
Isn’t that why we advise No Contact all over this website???
P.S. Have you had breakfast? I’ve got donut holes (I quit eating donuts).
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Tuesday, 3 November 2009 @ 11:24am
Isabell says:
Witsend wrote:
“If you are thinking he is less powerful because you have disclosed to him that you KNOW what he is. That means he thinks the opposite. He is feeling more powerful.”
It is my belief when they know we see through their mask, they become even more dangerous because we are now the greates threat to their survival. They must do whatever it takes, and by any means, to render our awareness meaningless. This could be through discrediting our character, keeping us in a state of confusion and panic so that we have NO energy to expose them, and even if we did, our own circumstances in trying to cope with them would make us appear unstable, while they woo the masses, who would believe?
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Tuesday, 3 November 2009 @ 11:45am
Isabell says:
henry wrote:
“No contact is our only weapon and our ultimate salvation. ”
AMEN!!!!!!! It’s hard to understand, at firs, and maybe even for along while.
While I didn’t have contact directly with my ex, his family (who pretended to be on my side) was all up in my business, keeping the drama circulating. The whole family thrives on this. Now, that I’ve been NC with them for a year, this month. The view (clarity) is breathtaking.
In stead of spending all my energy trying to find my footing and stabalize my equalibrium after each encounter with him, or his family, my emotional thinking has been cleared, and my energy is more efficient in recognizing, and gathering “DETAILS” (concrete evidence) that will ultimately protect me, and the kids. When I was caught up in his smoke screens, I couldn’t see my way out of a paper bag.
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Tuesday, 3 November 2009 @ 11:55am
amber says:
Morning all!
Ox….”By trying to stay ini the lives of these people and trying to “out smart them at their own game” you are perpetuating the pain in YOUR LIFE.”
I couldn’t agree with this more. I found myself emersed in trying to figure every little detail out before they happened to see if he was going to lie to me about it. It was making me crazy. I was ALWAYS trying to stay “one step ahead.”
And for the most part?!!? I was ALWAYS right. And most of the time I didn’t like what I found. It was like I was testing him to see if he would tell me the truth.
One time I followed him home after we got in a huge fight because I wanted to see if he was actually going home or somewhere else. The next day we agreed to sit and discuss the night before and he came up with this huge story about how he got pulled over by a cop for speeding…”started the conversation by saying…”you know, I almost got a DUI because of YOU last night!!!!” I was shocked becuase I followed his ass home…UHHHHH not even close!!! He even went into detail about the converstation he had with the police officer. And the reason he got pulled over was because he was SO UPSET WITH ME that he was driving too fast..blah blah blah….but he explained to the police officer that he had just had a agrument with his girlfriend…I mean it just didn’t stop. And I let him go. And I sat there thinking..this fucker had NO IDEA I was following him. The entire story was a LIE! And the worst part was, I couldn’t call him on it because he would have FLIPPED that I followed him. He would have made me feel like the crazy one. So I sat there and bit my tounge. To this day I wish I would have called him on it.
I couldn’t take much more of knowing what I knew and letting him get away with it. I never stood up for myself when I found him lying because that meant that I was doing my “detective work” and he would have made me feel crazy for going to the lengths that I did to find out what I knew. I admit sometimes I did feel crazy for having to do what I did. My friends would tell me, “Amber this is not normal!!” I still find myself wanting to check where he’s going to be, but I know it will only make me feel worse. So YES….NC has been my salvation. It gives me the power back.
And henry, I love hearing the stoires because it makes me feel better that I wasn’t the only one living this crazy existence. And being able to share my stories is very cathartic. So keep the stories coming!!
Hugs to everyone!! Thanks for ALLL of your stories.
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Tuesday, 3 November 2009 @ 12:33pm
OxDrover says:
Skylar, as long as you are talking OR listening to him, HE IS WINNING. I can’t say it more clearly than that.
As long as you are “playing the game”—YOU lose. The ONLY way, and I think everyone here has said the same thing, is NO CONTACT. It is taking YOUR power back. If you disagree with me (us) you are welcome to go on talking to and listening to him and think you are “scoring points” and making him “see” the consequences of his actions—the probl;em is, that even for them A LOSS is never their fault, and even my P son, sitting in prison doesn’t see that HE put himself there and that he is just another among millions of lousy convicts and criminals–he feels because he puts one over on a guard he is a WINNER. DUH????? Some winner. But I guess everyone has to think something positive about themselves.
I’m not going to change my mind about NC, and most folks who heal from this association with them eventually see the same perspective I do, so I think we probably ought to end this conversation here. I am not going to persuade you that NC is the ONLY way. Which I believe it is. We make our own choices and that one was successful for me so I will stick to it.
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Tuesday, 3 November 2009 @ 12:53pm
persephone7 says:
Skylar:
I agree with Witsend, Oxy and the rest – you come across as a very sharp woman but it just seems like you’re stalemating your own progress and chances at a real new life by even still talking to him. And I think you’re playing with fire by taunting him in your own way with your appraisal of what and who he is – they’re like the ultimate addiction and puzzle that can’t be solved. I hope you’ll just give it up and get yourself away!!
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Tuesday, 3 November 2009 @ 6:08pm
style1 says:
I agree no communication.. they just play you.. I have these insights that I think about sharing but.. months ago when I did this.. he never was self-relfective.. he just slammed me to try and make me feel that I am at fault. Communication brings you down and back ito the place of trying to make them hear you, listen, change .. to try and get some satisfaction and it won’t happen.. If it could’ve happened.. it would’ve already and you wouldn’t be where you are now. There is no satisfaction to be had.. but going on with your life.
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Tuesday, 3 November 2009 @ 7:20pm
skylar says:
Everyone, I don’t disagree with you. I agree that NC is the best solution. I would never recommend to anyone that they have contact with a P.
My only contact with him is the occasional seed planting, then I drop out of his contact zone for a while.
The danger to me is less while I have him befuddled. He is completely confused by the change in my personality, I’m happy and unflappable now. He even said that he wants to know who this “guru” is that I’m seeing and he said I’m bi-polar. He is desperately trying to figure out my personality but I keep changing it. He can’t keep up, so he can’t make any plans.
The reason I’m telling him exactly what he is, is because I’m not very good at lying. So instead I’m confusing him with selective truths. There is another aspect of the psychopath that I’ve learned: they are very introspective. If you read the quote by Yukio Mishima which I posted on a different thread, you can read what I mean. They are very aware that they are different but they can’t figure out why (their narcissism blocks the view). I’m using his own interest in himself and what makes him tick, to throw him off my trail. I’m giving him something else to think about when he thinks about hurting me.
This is working for me because, my relationshit with my P was a bit different in that even though he hated me, he relied on me for information about everything because I read a lot and he can barely read at all. he knows that I research things, and he knows that I don’t lie. So I’m just pulling on a string from our past to create this new line.
Eventually I will sell the house and move away and then NC will be permanent. Until then, I must show no fear.
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Tuesday, 3 November 2009 @ 7:30pm
Matt says:
skylar:
So exactly is it you gain by telling him that he is a sociopath? From where I’m standing you’re just giving him more information that can and will be used against you. As Robert Hare says, traditional therapy is wasted on these creatures since it only helps them hone their skills. You tell him he’s a sociopath, he will probably find his way to some site or whatever and learn even more ways to drive you insane.
As for your need to “educate” yourself, I think rather than studying these creaures in the wild, you would be far better advised to read “Without Conscience”, “The Sociopath Next Door”, etc where experts, who have not been personally enmeshed with these subhumans, have done a very good job of laying out for you, in their books, whatever you need to know for your education on sociopaths.
You say you want him gone. Everytime you intereact with him you are doing exactly the opposite of that. YOu say he is steadily dropping his financial demands on you. IMHO if you simply stopped interacting with him he will realize that there is nothing more to be got from you and move on. Everytime you deal with him you are sending him the opposite message — at least from where I’m standing.
Go dark. Stop talking to him. Let him move on. And then you can move yourself out of your mother’s house and back into your house. Your science experiements are getting in the way of your recovery. And your recovery should be more important to you than any “knowledge” you are gaining by pushing his buttons tha the knowledge which is already well-spelled out in books.
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Tuesday, 3 November 2009 @ 7:43pm
justabouthealed says:
Agree Matt. Any interaction also feeds our own addiction to drama. Not saying everyone has an addiction to drama, but if you’ve been involved with a P/S/N, you’ve had DRAMA…..and at first the peace and quiet can feel unsettling.
I personally strive to be as drama free as possible now. A woman was baiting me in a work email today, and I just let it go. No drama!
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Tuesday, 3 November 2009 @ 8:06pm
skylar says:
Matt, thanks for being concerned. I’m not saying there isn’t any danger, I’m only saying it is equal to or less than NC.
He knows I know and he knows I’ve told others, including his friends what he is. Therefore, he knows that it’s in his best interest that I stay VERY HEALTHY. He knows that if I turn up dead, EVERYONE will say: oh, P did it. She said P was trying to kill her and he did!
So that’s one benefit. But the way I present it, also makes him think that his sociopathy is showing and it’s blatently obvious to anyone who is educated in the field. I do this by calling him on every nuance and telling him that ALL sociopaths do exactly what he just did. LOL.
But it’s not a lie, it’s true! Only it’s making him so insecure that he’s going out of his way to be super nice. He doesn’t rage anymore. and the other day, my diamond ring, (which I got from my childhood sweetheart) fell off my finger and into his car (I’ve lost so much weight). He found it and called me to tell me he would leave it at the house. And he did.
Finally, I’m not worried that I’m turning him into a super-sociopath by informing him. He is already a super-sociopath, he is subtle and he’s a master sabateur. (not to mention the poisoning) But, sociopaths can never be more than what they are. He will always be a 3 trick pony: charm, pity and rage. Everything about him is infantile despite his superior mechanical abilities.
I tell him that I expect him to sabotage my car and house, so therefore he doesn’t do it, because he’s trying to prove me wrong. There’s nothing more important to them than their veneer – he desperately needs me to believe in him again. It’s the classic reverse psychology. So far it’s working.
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Tuesday, 3 November 2009 @ 8:14pm
style1 says:
I went through a phase where I thought that I could play him..but I didn’t and couldn’t.. I am not like him.. I am too real.. and trying to ‘play’ him only kept him in my life longer..
it doesn’t work for real people… They are too ahead of you because they don’t have real feelings and don’t care.. I keep foretting that.. the love love love that they talk about is just talk..
where real people actually do feel.. and so they hurt and it takes time to get over..
they just going on manipulating…
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Tuesday, 3 November 2009 @ 9:22pm
Stargazer says:
Skylar,
What was your ring doing in his car? It’s really hard for me to understand your motive in staying in contact with him. Are you afraid that if you go NC, he will try to kill you? Or are you trying to beat him at his own game to have some sort of power over him?
Either way, you keep yourself stuck as long as you are in contact with him like this. You will not be able to heal. It’s a form of denial to think that you can somehow “win” over a sociopath. He still wins because he sucks your time and energy. I repeat, you are not healing as long as you are playing this game with him. And as long as you are not on the healing path, I don’t know how much help we can give you. Healing starts with NC. There are no loopholes or exceptions to this I’m afraid. There is nothing “special” about your sociopath that makes him okay to hang out with. Sorry to be tough on you, but I’m really questioning your choices here.
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Tuesday, 3 November 2009 @ 11:32pm
Rosa says:
In my opinion, if you can “plant seeds”, do reverse psychology, and play various mind games with someone, you are either NOT dealing with a psychopath, or you are delusional.
Furthermore, psychopaths are NOT introspective.
In fact, they are the polar opposite.
That is one of the reasons why therapy does not work with them.
Matt, I am glad you brought up Robert Hare.
Page 195 of “Without Conscience” states,
“PSYCHOPATHS DON’T FEEL THEY HAVE PSYCHOLOGICAL OR EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS, AND THEY SEE NO REASON TO CHANGE THEIR BEHAVIOR TO CONFORM TO SOCIETAL STANDARDS WITH WHICH THEY DO NOT AGREE.”
“To elaborate, psychopaths are generally well satisfied with themselves and with their inner landscape, bleak as it may seem to outside observers. They see nothing wrong with themselves, experience little personal distress, and find their behavior rational, rewarding, and satisfying; they never look back with regret or forward with concern.”
“They perceive themselves as superior beings in a hostile, dog-eat-dog world in which others are competitors for power and resources.”
“Psychopaths are not ‘fragile’ individuals. What they think and do are extensions of a rock-solid personality structure that is extremely resistant to outside influence. By the time they enter a formal treatment program their attitudes and behavioral patterns have become well-entrenched, difficult to budge even under the best circumstances.”
This theory that psychopaths can be “played”, manipulated, or changed in any way is reckless and dangerous, in my opinion.
People may be reading this website searching for help in dealing with a dangerous psychopath in their life.
I really believe that we should try to be as accurate & responsible as possible with the information we put out there.
Sorry, I have worked myself into a lather.
But, the psychopaths I have encountered in my life are NOTHING TO PLAY WITH.
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Wednesday, 4 November 2009 @ 12:05am
style1 says:
Rosa,
I agree with you. I tried to get mine to a psychologist and he yelled that they don’t work. I tried to one up him and you can’t.. they are so detached that they match you then you feel further trauma.. mine love, love love, I will love you forever. You came out of my dream. You are the woman that I have been searching for my whole life.. turned out to be the coldest man that I have ever seen. He cuts his emotions (contrived) emotions as fast as he jumps in.. A normal person is left to deal with the feelings..
I tried to interact and one up .. and I regretted it everytime.. Now, I learned NO CONTACT… All he wants to do now, is to make me feel confused, blame me and to undermine my self-confidence. He is not someone that I want to interact with ever..and he never thought about the future in any real sense. He lives in the moment of his delusions and in his head. And was after me three months after his wife died.. that he couldn’t afford to divorce.. he is asking me to marry him.. He is cold as ice, out for himself and that is what your is also… DON’T PLAY GAMES, TRY TO BEAT THEM or WIN. The winning is NC. If you contact, they know that they are still on your mind.. and that feeds them..
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Wednesday, 4 November 2009 @ 12:22am
Stargazer says:
You know, my ex, the psychopath, that I only dated for a few months, was NEVER angry or violent with me. He never smeared or devalued me as most have. Even so, when I found out how crazy he was and what a seamless pathological liar he was, I became terrified of him. Even after he was out of my life, I tried to start a discussion about psychopaths on my reptile site (where he was a member). I got so scared I ended up having nightmares about him raping and killing me. I had to ask a moderator to remove the thread.
I cannot stress enough how very dangerous these creatures are. Having no empathy and no moral conscience makes a person very unpredictable and dangerous.
I agree with the above post. Either he’s not a socipath, or you are delusional (skylar). Also, if he is, in fact, a sociopath, any normal people would not want anything to do with him (or you by proxy). You will be pulled into his world with little if any external support.
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Wednesday, 4 November 2009 @ 12:23am
skylar says:
Star,
I saw him and I sat in the door frame of his car to make him talk to me. He was really nervous and wanted to leave. My ring slipped off.
He can’t hurt me emotionally anymore because I know what he is.
My point is to keep him off balance by showing him that he doesn’t know what I am.
When I’m sad, Star, its for the same reasons as you, it’s not about him so much as it is about the parental abuse and the loss of my core because of it.
I’m lost at sea with no direction.
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Wednesday, 4 November 2009 @ 2:45am
Isabell says:
Aloha…
I KNOW that I don’t have answers for you. What I want you to KNOW is that a period of feeling hopeless is probably normal. I too feel HOPEless. And, I’ve been DIAGNOSED as hopelessly optomistic. In the big picture…there is always meaning for me. But…I know my optomism is a way of avoiding the devistating hurt. So now, I’m in a period of sceptical synisism. A kind of “Yeah? Whateverism.”
Mostly, Aloha…
I wanted you to know, you are not alone in feeling the way that you do.
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Wednesday, 4 November 2009 @ 3:33am
geminigirl says:
Skylar, dont dance with the devil, he always wins.
If you lay down with dogs, expect to come up with fleas.
If you play with fire, you will [not may} get burnt.
Love, gem.XX
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 4 November 2009 @ 3:38am
geminigirl says:
SKYLAR NC NC NC!!! Its the only way! DO NOT ENGAGE WITH HIM! You are on a hiding to no-where . he will only set you back, and contribute NOTHING to your healing process. What are you trying to prove? these creatures are like aliens, you will NEVER understand him!
No wonder you feel lost at sea with no direction.He will never ever give you validation or direction.
Unless you are a sado masichist, I dont get what your trying to prove. There is no closure with these freaks,you will never win!NC NC NC!!! Love, and Hugs, Gem.XXX
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Wednesday, 4 November 2009 @ 3:46am
henry says:
this is beat up skylar nite – took me awhile to get to that place – no contact mean’s for fuckin ever – its called End the Dance – they have no limits and will dance you into your grave. I will never forget the look on his face when i slammed the door on his face – twice – he looked defeated – he looked confused – he could not believe i had had enuff – seeing him drive away was the hardest thing i ever did – i had no choice – had I let him back in I would not be here now – i went no contact and cried for a fuckin year – I am proud of me – that is like the only way to make them flinch – sting their twisted egos – words dont work – words feed them – when they cant dance that dance with us it deflates them and makes them know that one more time they have been seen as what they are and what they, no contact is our Weapon – understand that to engage them in anyway is self defeating. A true sociopath will love you into your grave or into the nut house..
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Wednesday, 4 November 2009 @ 4:12am
geminigirl says:
Skylar, We are NOT beating you up, we are trying to help you. NC IS the only way forward. They have no shame, no consciense, no pity, no empathy,no kindness, no guilt,they are not human as we understand human to be. Think of poor Lily, 42 years with a sociopath who verbally emotionally and physically beat her up, now all her adult kids, plus her sisters and one brother are all Ps. Do they care that shes just had major surgery, and is still very weak? They dont care.
You say hes not hurting you emotionally any more but your hurting yourself emotionally by continuing to engage with him. Ps dont care if you give them love or hate its all energy for them to feed off. You need that precious energy to get well. They are vampires, they steal our souls. Love, and {{HUGS}}} Gem.XXX
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Wednesday, 4 November 2009 @ 6:59am
Kathleen Hawk says:
There was a point in my healing process — well, actually a bunch of points — when I started to name my ex, face him down with evidence of his various failures, set up fairly elaborate legal mechanisms to protect myself, warn him of the results of certain behaviors, and prepare to execute some really damaging retributions to him (and probably me too), if I found it necessary. It was the same period that I was imagining delightful revenge scenarios, and ways to make public what a shallow and self-serving piece of s**t he is.
Most of this occured in my head, or in letters to him (mostly unsent), or here on LoveFraud. Though I did take a few steps to make sure that if anything happened to me, my “insurance policy” would send the police immediately to his door with evidence about his motive. And I let him know about it.
In other words, I was not exactly the poster child for going NC — either in my mind or in reality. My entire process of healing, until close to the end, went on in a written dialogue with him. A small fraction of those letters were sent, but some of them were. The conversation trickled off — in my mind as well as reality — later in the recovery when I got more involved in creatively changing myself, rather than being so involved with him or other abusers in my past.
I’m not suggesting that anyone else follow this aspect of my healing model. I frankly think I would have recovered my life faster, if I could have focused earlier on what I might change in myself, rather than him. But the truth is, that wasn’t possible. My family of origin had left me with such a warped sense of the world and myself that I really needed to “use” him as tool for understanding my vulnerabilities, my denial, and the way I effectively volunteered for abuse in my life.
And part of my process of getting better, growing up into personal power and learning to defend myself, was a period of proving to myself that, if necessary, I could be as big a sociopath as he was.
I’ve written here before about how I needed to “turn on the lights” in parts of my brain that were essentially dark as a result of my upbringing. I spent my whole life living defensively and reactively (though I would have denied it, because I thought I was assertive and even aggressive). I was terrified about whether people liked me, whether I had the skills to take care of myself and survive, whether I was a “good” person.
In stepping up to being a sociopath for my own benefit, to compete and fight with cold-hearted commitment to myself and no empathy at all, and being willing to be harmed or even die if necessary to keep from being a victim again, I was releasing something in myself that was natural and real. It had been beaten down and locked away in my personality by the violence of my upbringing. And when it finally emerged, it was raw and childish. It was one of those aspects of my personality that needed to grow up, and I regard all this posturing and playing at being a bigger sociopath than him as the adolescent stages of experiencing this power.
Later, this aspect smoothed out and matured, became integrated with the rest of my personality. Now I’m better at moving easily between self-interested thinking and empathetic thinking, even in the course of seconds, as situations require.
But I was fortunate that while I was doing all this experimentation with being tougher, colder, smarter and stronger than him, he was far away. Had he been closer, he would have undoubtedly figured out a way to traumatize me again (or worse), because it would have been in his best interest to do that. And the real truth of this stage in my healing was that I was only learning how to defend myself, not harm him. But he would have interpreted it as harm, and he would have had no qualms about doing whatever it took to neutralize me.
The thing about playing with sociopaths is that we always lose. Because that’s the only game they play — win or lose. We may be able to control our losses. But I think even ErinB with all her legal triumphs would agree that it costs time, money, and most of all, a lot of mental and emotional energy to deal with them. And that the ultimate good comes from getting them entirely out of our lives, and developing the mental and emotional capacity to recognize them and avoid them in the future. And if we get fooled for a while, to act swiftly and ruthlessly to extricate ourselves and not look back.
There is a tremendous amount of information on LoveFraud on how to do that. One of my favorite techniques that has been mentioned recently is the “gray rock” strategy. And possibly t