Finding meaning in the betrayal by the sociopath
PDF When we realize that we’ve been involved with a sociopath, and that person has callously betrayed us, we inevitably ask, “Why? Why did this happen to me?”
To help find the answer, one of the books that Lovefraud recommends is The Betrayal Bond—Breaking Free of Exploitive Relationships, by Patrick J. Carnes, Ph.D. The book explains the deep psychological wounds caused by trauma, and offers a way for us to identify and overcome abusive relationships that we may have experienced.
When I read the book, I was struck by what Carnes wrote on page 68:
My experience with survivors of trauma is that every journey of recovery depends on the survivor coming to a point where all that person has gone through means something.
I believe there is meaning in what we have experienced at the hands of sociopaths. Here it is: The object of the exercise is to force us to jettison mistaken beliefs about ourselves.
Promising to fill the void
When sociopaths come into our lives, they snag us by promising to fill some void. For most of us on Lovefraud, the void is our missing soul mate, but sociopaths can also promise career success, monetary rewards, spiritual enlightenment—any number of things. (Please note: This dynamic doesn’t quite apply when sociopaths are family members.)
Sociopaths are experts at identifying our vulnerabilities and exploiting them. So the question becomes, why do we have the vulnerabilities in the first place? Here’s where the mistaken beliefs come in.
We believe we cannot attract a fulfilling romance.
We believe people only want us when we do something for them.
We believe we cannot succeed through our own efforts.
We believe we aren’t good enough.
We believe we are unlovable.
We believe there’s something wrong with us.
We believe we cannot cope with life by ourselves.
We believe other people come before ourselves.
We believe someone will come and make all our troubles disappear.
These just a few of the erroneous beliefs that create voids within us. Where do they come from? Perhaps from abuse in our past, as outlined in The Betrayal Bond.Perhaps they come from simple misperceptions. In any event, the sociopath steps right in to fill them.
Feel free to add your own mistaken beliefs to the list.
Critical juncture
So the sociopaths make promises—and break every one of them. At some point we wake up, come out of the fog, and realize that our lives have crumbled into piles of debris. That’s when we ask why? Why did this happen to me?
This is a critical juncture. We can certainly blame the sociopath—they are evil, and they deserve to be blamed. We can say it was fate, or luck, which is sometimes true—there are sociopaths who randomly assault or kill people. But in most of our cases, we believed the sociopath, went along with the charade, for a period of time. Why did we do this?
If we can find the answer to this question, we can discover the meaning in the betrayal by the sociopath.
As much as I hate to admit it, I did benefit from the destruction wrought by the sociopath I married. I am not the same person that I was before him—I am wiser, healthier and happier.
Why? Because I found and released all those mistaken beliefs.
Yes, it was painful. Yes, it was traumatic. But by looking for the meaning and undertaking the healing journey, my life is now much richer than it ever was.
written by Donna Andersen • Permalink •
Kathleen Hawk says:
Whoops, I posted that without editing out the typos. The most important typos was in the paragraph about the Eileen Warnos dynamic. What I meant to say is that the healing process ISN”T very different. There are a lot of other typos, but hopefully it makes general sense. — Kathy
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Kathleen Hawk says:
Oxy, I was writing while you posted that, and I agree entirely. You and I come at this from different spiritual traditions, and I learn a lot from your Biblical references. (Catholics don’t read the Bible, and now that I’m a sort-of Buddhist, I’m off on completely different paths. But there’s clearly a great deal of wisdom there, which you present in wonderful ways.)
The empty-chair technique is something I used too. It’s a way to have the conversation that you couldn’t safely have at the time.
But something I neglected to mention is the addictive nature of anger. People do get stuck there, because being angry makes them feel less powerless and small, and they find that they can drive away certain threats by blowing themselves up like a puffer fish and looking very dangerous. And we like the brain chemicals of anger — the clarity, the righteousness, the sense of being in our own skin (rather than diffused all over the place, as we are when we feel responsible for things that are really not under our control, including other people’s feelings).
But the hint to what is wrong with this is that it is addictive. That is, we’re using it to make ourselves feel better, rather than digging down to find the real sources of our chronic anger. Sooner or later, addiction recovery involves discovering the wounded child inside us.
Before we do this work, we experiences the various pieces of it in a disconnected way. We feel wounded. We feel like we have a right to take care of ourselves. We don’t trust. We bargain with the sources of fear.
But getting down to this wounded child level somehow pulls these pieces together in a way that makes us really coherent again. We understand the nature of the wounds. We see exactly what needs taking care of. We start bargaining with the child, if you want to call it that, seeking to know what exactly it needs to feel safe and loved again. We face our internal issues of trust and make trusting ourselves our top priority.
It takes tremendous courage to face ourselves at this level. The amount of denial we live with is in direct proportion to how frightening we find it to admit that we were wounded. It’s as though the wounds are the monster. But when we get there, we discover that the monster is not there. Just us with our bruises that require concerned caring and reassurance that everything is going to be all right, and a commitment to care for ourselves in the future.
For me, Oxy’s story is one of a child that was told and shown that her own reality had to be suppressed, if she was going to be safe. The she had to subscribe to other people’s reality in order to be loved and sheltered. And as children, we feel and rightly that our lives are at stake. What if they abandon us, because we are not what they want? We do what we have to do to survive, and particularly if there is no one around to tell us that our parents are wrong or crazy, we don’t have support for maintaining what we have temporarily put away in order to survive.
I had a grandmother who was a relatively small influence in my childhood (compared to the daily craziness at home), but she encouraged me, seemed to understand what I was dealing with (without my having to say anything), and she seemed to see me as valuable and full of potential. Sometimes I think that she was the reason I maintained a vision of a different life for myself. I though about her a lot in recovery, because I often felt I was coming home to what she saw in me, before I had gotten to the point that I saw myself as truly worth caring for.
Oxy mentioned expecting other people to be as responsible as we expect ourselves to be. I would add something to this. We have been giving other people the freedom to be who they are, while denying ourselves that freedom. A lot of the identity damage we sustain as children or in other traumas results a kind of punishing noise in our heads telling us we are not okay. The truth is the parts of us that are not okay are the parts that are reacting to that noise. Deep inside of us, behind the traumas and our coping mechanisms, we are very okay. We have good values based on the fundamental belief in the goodness of giving and receiving love.
I realize that this generalization does not work for NSPs that may have been born broken, or so genetically disadvantaged that it took very little to destroy their capacity for compassion or bonding. So let’s say that there are some incurable emotional cripples among us.
But that is not what I’m talking about. I’m talking about us, the people whose sense of themselves was warped by trauma that can be resolved. I’ve written here before that this healing attention to myself was the greatest gift I’ve ever received, and I gave it to me. Unpeeling the onion is a tremendous adventure, and there are parts that are scary and require courage. But it we believe in ourselves — and I think we all do at a deep level — we can do it. And we can use the experience with the sociopath to get really well, better than we’ve ever been in our lives.
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OxDrover says:
Dear Kathy,
I am NOT advocating “premature” forgiveness, because like you say that ANGEr stage has to come in there, because we are JUSTLY angry. Jesus was angry. he advised his disciples to “be ye angry and sin not.” Anger itself is NOT a “sin” or even a bad thing, it makes us TAKE ACTION against the problem. Jesus took ACTION by driving out the money changers in the Temple. He was justly angry and took ACTION to rite the wrong that was going on.
He also said “do not let the sun go down on your WRATH.” I always thought of wrath as anger, but the two words are NOT the same thing at all. anger is immediate when you perceive the wrong (even if the wrong itself took kplace years ago) but WRATH is nurtured, fed, and vengeful and bitter. It is bad for YOU where as anger is not. We can be justly angry and it does not hurt US, but nurturing WRATH and a feeling of vengence and HANGING ON TO THIS FEELING FOREVER is a bad thing for US.
The commandments in the Bible and the wisdom are for US and how to live a peaceful and good life…even if you are not a believer in the religious aspect of the Bible, the wisdom and knowledge on how to “handle others” of different types, how to “get along and play nice with others—if they are willing to play nice” but unlike what is taught many times we are NOT, I think, to be DOOR MATS. Being a martyr is NOT what Christianity or Judism is all about. It is using our wisdom and good sense to be “as cunning as serpents and as gentle as doves” and to “tell what a tree is by examining its fruit” (pattern of behavior)
The Bible itself has many examples of psychopaths and their “hard hearts” and lack of pity or compassion. Ahab’s wife Jezeebel has become the by-word for this lack of pity and compassion. She is a perfect example of a psychopath who was she thought entitled to what she wanted and persuaded her weaker husband to act just like her. Fortunately, she got her just deserts! He did as well.
There are multiple examples in the Bible of people being led astray by psychopaths and “evil companisoos corrupt good morals” and in many ways we gave in (many of us any way) to do things for or with the ps that otherwise we would never have done. Plus, we let them abuse us which they had NO RIGHT to do.
When we realize that we have NOT STOOD UP to protect even ourselves, we may feel pretty badly toward ourselves, but we can START TODAY….we can feel the justifiable anger at others and at OURSELVES, but let this ANGER MAKE US TAKE ACTION to correct the wrongs. We can correct the wrongs in the others, but we can sure as heck correct the wrongs inside ourselves, make ourselves better, strounger and “more righteous” people, whatever our spiritual and religious beliefs are.
You just gave me an idea for another article. I’m gonna leave here and work on it. Love to you my wonderful friend, Oxy
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skylar says:
Oxy and Kathy,
thanks so much for your thoughts.
It helps to understand the different layers as I get down to the core problem: the programming that my parents placed on me during the time when I was developing my identity. They wanted control so they devalued me. What assholes. I would never do that to a cat much less a child. They wanted to break my spirit, but they didn’t, they just crippled it.
How to straighten it out and let it expand is the question. I’m thinking the answer is similar to what I would tell a P: choose to let it expand by getting rid of all the old coping mechanisms, so you can get new ones. Looking at the P, I see myself. I see a crippled coping mechanism, suitable only for a child but still being applied to my life today.
So what are those new coping mechanisms?
I so appreciate both of you dedicating yourselves to these discussions with me and the rest of LF. You’ve helped me grow immensely in the last few months. I have hope.
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OxDrover says:
Dear Skylar,
QUOTE: “I’m thinking the answer is similar to what I would tell a P:”
The thing is Skylar, you are NOT going to accomplish ANYTHING by “telling a P” ANYTHING, they will NOT get it, they will not utilize it to grow, and as long as you think that you can influence THEM, you are stuck.
Disconnecting from THEM and connecting to OURSELVES is what we must FIRST do to get on the road to improving ourselves.
Like Kathy said, it is NOT “instant” but we start with NC–physical NC which contains NO LISTENING, NO RESPONSE, NO READING, NO LOOKING THEM UP ON FACE BOOK, etc. NO RESPONSE TO THEM.
Instead of responding to THEM, we may shoutt at the wall, the chair, or come here on LF and post and vent, but we do NOT allow them in, ,NO CONTACT. Yet, even then, they are still in EMOTIONAL contact with us, they are RENTING SPACE in our heads. There are still things we WANT to tell them, etc. so that is only the first step. BUT as physical NC goes on, we will find we think about THEM LESS and eventually we don’t give a big rat’s behind what they think, or waht they are or where they are, they are OUT OF OUR LIVES and out of our heads.
Then, we can start to truly and FULLY work on our own selves and dealing with our past. As long as they are taking up our energy and time and thoughts, we can’t think about ourselves and how WE need to change. Change our attitudes, our behaviors, and make our lives better TODAY in the NOW.
It takes work and time. and TIME AND WORK. As long as we are connected to them, for fresh injuries, though, we go back and back to square ONE.
This whole thing starts out about them, but when we start to heal, it becomes about US, NOT THEM. They are a LOST CAUSE. We are NOT lost causes.
Those of us with TOXIC parents or a toxic parent, or in some cases, even good parents, did not prepare us, or we were not prepared (either way you want to look at it) for dealing with EVIL people who would use us. If we had been, we would not have been on LF to start with, because everyone comes into contact with evil people, but NOT everyone allows them to abuse them. Some maybe by luck, but others by having good boundaries. Good boundaries that let them say, “You will NOT treat me like that.”
With strangers I had those boundaries, but with my “family” and “close friends” I didn’t, I felt it was my duty to “never upset someone who hurt me.” DUH! You steal from me and I am not supposed to upset YOU? You lie to me, cheat me, say hateful things to me and I am NOT supposed to NOTICE or make a “big deal out of it?”
Well, I found out, finally that just because you share a blood relationship with some one, or even a long past history, that you do NOT have to put up with abusive behavior, You can and should go oNC if that is the only way to make this person treat you well…. or not at all if they refuse to be honest with you. NO ONE DESERVES TO BE TREATED LIKE THIS, and I don’t deserve it either. I will NOT be treated with disrespect and dishonest bvy anyone I allow the PRIVILEDGE of being my intimate friend. Even if I gave birth to them, or they gave birth to me. NOTHING, no relationship, requires that I put up with that crap.
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Isabell says:
OxDrover,
I’m so glad you wrote…
“Ahab’s wife Jezeebel has become the by-word for this lack of pity and compassion. She is a perfect example of a psychopath who was she thought entitled to what she wanted and persuaded her weaker husband to act just like her. Fortunately, she got her just deserts! He did as well.”
I have shared of my ex NPS’s behavior. I have shared of his family (also NPS) cult like system. What I have not shared is the Jezeebel woman that has been on the heels of my marriage, believing she is entitled to all that we worked so hard for, and has been even more malicious in her smear campaign against me, and the kids. She is intoxicating in her charm, and completely without conscience in her tactics. Even when she’s exposed, which is easy to do with her, because her weakness is her enjoyment of telling people (between the lines) of how she’s going to screw them over. She wears a mask of Christianity, and studies what people want to hear, then delivers in abundance, while she undermines, and takes what doesn’t belong to her.
I heard of her when I was dating my ex. He talked of her as if she were discusting. His negative commentary caused me to feel sorry for her. Just because he didn’t like her, she’s still a human being, with feelings. This should have been my first warning about him.
I met her in 1996. I was working at the shop, having been demanded to cover the office, five weeks after having a c-section, by my ex’s father. “If you want food on your table to feed those kids, you better get your a** in her and cover these phones. I wasn’t paid. While nursing a new born, juggling a 2 year old, with baby equipment everywhere, no make up on, in a large T-shirt, to cover the boobs while the baby nursed, and I answered the phone, in walks this strickingly beautiful woman. She was stylish, confident, and intoxicating.
She introduced herself to me as someone my was was supposed to be married to, but the timing was never right. When she left, I looked at my ex, and he jestered his dislike by sticking his finger in his mouth to gag. And, I was convinced he loved my down to earth, committed to what matters, dedication, and loyalty of the beauty queen. Lucky me!!!
I had forgotten all about her. Years later, when our marriage is falling completely apart, I get a call from the office manager where my ex worked. “You need to call this number.” So I did. She announced her name, though I didn’t put it together with the woman in 1996. I asked my ex’s sister if she’d ever heard of this name, and she reminded me of who this was. She also told me of this woman’s publically known intent to make my ex HERS. My ex’s sister said, “I wouldn’t trust her as far as I can throw her.”
Then this woman shows up at my house, with flowers. She tells me some lamb excuse of how she had just run into my ex, and felt so sorry for what I was going through as s single mom (we’d recently separated). She knew every book I had just read. She recited word for word letter’s I’d written to my ex 18 months before, and then confessed that she’d been following me for the past 18 months. She told of how her mother(who she claimed is dead, but ironically now lives with her) forced her into prostitution, and a number of other sob storys, which included having experienced liver failure (which so happens to coorespond with a period of time that she delivered a baby-that I suspect is my ex’s) Her elaborate details were mind boggling. And, she was still very much intoxicating, even to me.
Until…I caught her in a lie. The looking glass crashed and I insisted that she stay away from me, and my kids. The paper trail that I’ve been on, putting together in chronilogical order, shows clearly her influence and intention to deceive. It also shows her influence in alienating my ex from the kids, vs me whom they keep accusing me of. She is all fluff, and no substance.
Her main objective is to get to the inheritance that she is anticipating my ex will receive when his father 82 passes. She’s even trying to get herself assigned as an executor of the will over the assigned children of the estate. She has managed to get herself as a co-signer on my ex and mine business account, as well as his father’s checking account… Not even his own kids have had that much influence.
My ex is an insecure little boy, scared to death and as such sees everyone as his enemy that he needs to protect himself against; except those he’s immediately dependent on, and she’s made sure he’s dependent on her. She, on the other hand, is far more manipulative; but, not as stealth, as my ex. She is easy for me to read. And, her ego needs to laugh in the face of her victims will be her undoing. Here’s an example: When I sent a bill to my ex for dental expenses of one of our children. She sent the bill back, with a copy of a check showing herself as a signer with my ex’s dad. Her message, “In your face. Look at the control and influence I have.” She could have sent a copy to me, having written in the check number, amount, and date. I would not know the checking account, nor who was on it. Because she did this….to show off, I have proof that my ex’s father is funneling money through his account with this woman, to hide income. BUSTED!!! Thank you, my dear Jezeebel. The havok your wrecked upon my family will be equally rewarded.
There is a great deal more she has done (mental and psychological mind warping stunts she’s pulled with my kids, witnessed and documented) that I may share at another time.
This woman has enjoyed what should have been my equal income since 2006, and possibly longer. When she is questioned she suddenly has a heart condition, or some other medical, psychological issue that immediately turns my ex’s family into bumbling idiots that believe her.
One member of the family that cannot stand her, had breast cancer. This Jezeebel manged to convince them that she ran a 10K marathon for breast cancer, showing the finish line metal only…. No on-line photos of her crossing the finish line, no pictures of her with the number pinned to her shirt…they just believe her. What is even more astonishing, is that they believe her after she’s convinced them that she can’t work because she has heart condition. Her lack of conscience makes her believable. Her beauty and intoxicating charm, filled with flattery, make her irresistable. She makes me… sick to my stomach.
She convinced my ex’s entire family that she was happily married. Then she convinced them that she was distraught and she and her husband were so disappointed in being caught up in the lies of my ex, and wanted nothing to do with him. All this, while she was getting her name on a new bank account for our joint business as a signer. She has enjoyed full access for her personal use of monies that belonged to me, the past three years.
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skylar says:
Oxy, I certainly like your enthusiasm for NC even when it’s a blood relative. Blood relatives can be lethal because they use that connection against you.
Being hurt by a P can only happen when you have expectations for something and you get something else. If you know you’re dealing with a P, they can’t hurt you because you know exactly what to expect. I don’t expect anything from the P in the emotional realm. I’m only an observer. I take notes and ruminate on how his humanity relates to mine, where they intersect, where they run parallel and where they are polar opposites.
The damage I suffered when I was a child, occurred because I was in a stage of development where I could be easily imprinted. Later, my understanding of human nature was incomplete and I was taken in by P’s all the time, culminating in the xP’s theft of 25 years.
Healing is only going to happen for me through knowledge and understanding and I’ll take it where ever I can find it.
When I said, “what I would tell a P”, I was speaking metaphorically, like Socrates used to do. If I was to actually tell a P anything, I would not expect any specific reaction, but I would watch with interest for the results. But thanks for the reminder, even a scientist must remember to divorce herself from the expected hypothesis
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Kathleen Hawk says:
Skylar, you asked about new coping mechanisms.
I think that a lot of this is just the difference between living a life which is shaped by unresolved trauma or one that is lived in, more or less, real time.
Those old coping mechanisms actually serve to keep the trauma alive in our lives. We’ve talked here about the way we keep reproducing the dysfunctionalities of our childhood in new relationships in an effort to make it come out different. I know this was true for me. I kept thinking as I grew older that I was stronger now, more assertive, more successful, more self-confident. But the relationship dynamics that I was co-creating with people who had similar or complementary issues always worked out with me doing the same thing — being acquiescent, over-supportive, over responsible, too tolerant, and generally codependent. I learned something from these relationships, rules like not getting involved with active alcoholics or anyone who shows signs of being a sociopath, but they didn’t change my basic strategies for getting along in life which were formed back in my childhood.
Doing the work of revisiting and resolving those traumas — and I don’t think you can get to a new place without doing this, though you don’t/can’t do them all at once — progressively makes real the fact that you are the source of your own reality, responsible for your own wellbeing, and entitled to not only bare survival but to get your needs met. All of them.
This new knowledge becomes the basis for your new approach to life. Coping mechanism is probably not exactly the right term, though we all have to deal with difficulties in life. I think that it’s more useful to think of it as reality-based responses. And observed reality has two main facets. One is what we need and want. The other is our best objective understanding of what is going on outside of us.
So given that, if asked to create some basic rules for post-recovery living, I would probably suggest something like these. (And I’m sure there are better ones listed in many books and web sites. This is just off the top of my head and based on the content of this discussion.)
1. Trust the evidence of your senses over anything anyone else tells you about what is going on.
2. Interpret what is good or useful in terms of what is good or useful for you.
3. Reduce your pain tolerance to zero in voluntary interpersonal relationships.
4. Recognize and respect your anger, fear and grief as messages from your internal systems for survival and wellbeing.
5. Regard your trust as a negotiable commodity that is as valuable as the air you breath. Make sure that you can trust yourself first, before you give any away, and be fully prepared to take it back immediately if circumstances change.
6. Develop the skill of dispassionate compassion. You can feel for other people without getting involved. Manage your involvements based on what you can really afford to invest.
7. Give yourself time to grieve. Grieving is one of the most under-appreciated experiences of life. It is really the flip side of gratitude. When we take joy in something, we must honor that joy when it leaves our life in order to let it go and make room for more joy. Take the time to create your own ceremonies of letting go.
8. If something seems confusing, consider carefully whether you want the learning experience of understanding it or whether you want to move on to other things. Life is a non-stop classroom. To a great degree we can pick our lessons, just as we once picked our school classes. In our life now, we have the option of walking away, applying an existing mental rule to it, or volunteering to learn. If it’s a chance to learn about landscaping, we may want to go. If it’s a chance to explore what is wrong with a charming alcoholic, we may want to pass.
9. Create concrete goals and pursue what you want. These are the right risks to take in your life, because even you fail, you learn more about how to get to your goals. Judge your circumstances by how they support your goals. If you’re not particularly good at creating concrete goals, just do your best and trust that you’ll get better at it. Getting better at it is adding more concrete details, or realizing that you have a better idea and working toward that instead.
10. Deal with distracting or draining or unhelpful people in alignment with your goals. And in alignment with the dispassionate compassion principle.
11. Be your own source of approval, appreciation, nurturing, ethical judgement, etc. If you get strokes or confirmation from the outside, enjoy the affirmation. But if you have to go looking for it, go looking for tools to build up your own ability to support yourself.
12. Look for love and friendship that recognizes and values you as you are. Understand that healthy people are selfish, and enjoy relationships where your mutual selfishness finds something of value in each other. This is okay. It’s also okay to disagree, to negotiate terms in situations where you conflict, and to choose not to share parts of yourself. None of these things preclude a truly great relationship, based on mutual appreciation and respect.
13. Work at understanding and accepting the great dichotomy of existance. We are ultimately alone and responsible only to ourselves. And we are connected to everything and our actions affect everything, just as everything affects us. This is a kind of brief explanation of the two sides of the brain. Both of them exist for a reason, and both of those realities are true. True maturity is being able to manage this dichotomy and float easily between these realities, integrating their wisdom in our choices of where we place our attention and how we choose to act on the world and our lives.
14. Love yourself. Accept yourself. Invest in yourself. You have nothing to give if you’re running on empty.
15. Ask for what you want. Ask God. Ask yourself. Ask the people you think can help you. Ask your pets, the trees, your clothes, the food you eat, the road as you drive. Speak it out loud when you are alone. Learn Jabez’s prayer. Become what you want. This is how to attract it to you. You know this, but doing it needs to become a habit.
16. Learn the concept of feedback as replacement for a lot of less helpful concepts like personal criticism, rejection or self-hatred. When you knock on a strange door, and a growling, barking dog starts throwing himself against the door to try to get to you, this is feedback from the universe. When you turn in an exam, and you get it back with a C- minus, this is feedback. When you eat dinner and then get sick to your stomach, this is feedback. Feedback is only what you get back for something you do. If the feedback tells you that you failed at something you attempted or that you are in the wrong place at the wrong time, you can evaluate it to see if there is something to learn. But if not, you can discard it as random noise or other people’s dramas. It’s meaning is determined by you and you alone.
I think that’s it. None of this talks about opening your heart. The reason for that is that opening your heart ideally is a common occurrence in your life. Rather these principles are more about survival, self-protection and building.
I hope this makes sense.
Kathy
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OxDrover says:
Kathy, WONDERFUL post! It should have a stand alone article! Skylar, I have had to do all those things, and I realized that those very people who were my biological parents, but not my mother and father, cannot be part of my life. My sperm donor is dead but I went NC with him 20+ years ago, I didn’t even know what NC was, but I knew he was dangerous.
It was only recently that I realized my egg donor was as dangerous in different ways and just as malicious as he was, again, in different ways. She had me in the FOG thinking she loved me. I quickly learned he didn’t love anyone. I realize now that she only “loved” me as long as she could control me. I am no longer controlled by anyone except myself and my belief in God. I do not judge myself according to some one else’s standards. I have to account to myself and my God. anyone else is optional.
Why would I want ANYone in my life who despises me and treats me badly, no matter WHAt the relationship is? My egg donor thought she could entice me with “gifts”—but her givts were not “gifts” freely and lovingly given but “down payments” on CONTROL. I figured that one out! So I will NOT tolerate ANY abuse from ANYone and that being the case with abusive people, I must stay away from them.
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skylar says:
Kathy (can I just call you Mom?)
I’ve printed out the 16 points and they are going next to my bed. I will read them everyday without fail.
#3 reduce your pain tolerance
is especially important to me. I have a high pain tolerance. Example: last week, my FWB and I were in bed and in his passion, he pressed his head against my jaw line, repeatedly for almost 5 minutes. It was so painful but I didn’t say anything, I just hoped he would move it. Finally he did, but it hurt for a week. I’m not blaming him, I didn’t say anything so he didn’t know. It’s just how I react to pain, I ignore it, I don’t know why. I’ll walk with a rock in my shoe for miles rather than bend over and take it out.
Thank you for telling me that zero is the acceptable limit to pain. I didn’t know.
Thank you for telling me that it’s ok to look at my pain to see where it’s coming from too. I see fear of rejection is a big part of it. It actually makes me sick when I think of someone I love as rejecting me. I’m not a child anymore and I’m not going to die, but it feels like it. I know this is left over instinctive reaction from childhood, when it WAS scary to be rejected. Because emotional pain manifests itself as physical pain in my body, I’ve learned to ignore both. Mostly, I can’t tell the difference.
You have spent so much time and thought detailing everything out for me, I appreciate you so much. Not only are each of these 16 points lessons for me, but so is your overwhelming kindness.
Your thoughfulness has left a warm glow where the ache was just before, and my mind has gone from panic mode to hopeful mode, just from reading your words. Thank you.
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Isabell says:
Kathy,
Wow!!!!
Printing your post. Saddened by the fact that I don’t fully comprehend some of your points. I want to. I will to. I will, eventually.
Your post is like a light shining on the clutter in my head. There’s a lot that needs to be decluttered, as I stand overwhelmed by it all – wondering where to begin.
Oxy, thanks for the suggested resources. I have an appointment tomorrow AM for some assistance.
When swirling in a state of panic, the feed-back from this forum is my road to sanity. Thank you for affirming that no matter the circumstances… NC, NC, NC.
With a closer look at the recent job opportunity lost, situation, the Regional Manager, and Vice President were both fantastic, the Branch Manager that I’d be working for, that has been on maternity leave, has many of the attributes that make my stomache nervous. She’s at least 15 years my Jr., but talked to me like I was a teenager. I’ve called many times, e-mailed, and checked in without hearing back from her. Then, she blamed me for the lack of contact, as the reason she hired someone else- after the regional manager told me the position was for me. Huh? A case for confusion, to say the least. Perhaps, I just missed another train wreck.
Very disappointed… but, moving on.
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OxDrover says:
Dear Isabell,
I read today that unemployment benefits are being extended for most people, so you may stil have your benefits, but with your kids, you may ALSO be entitled to food stamps or other social services, free lunches/breakfasts for your kids at school, utility assistance and so on. LEAVE NO STONE UNTURNED.
Also sometimes you can volunteer your services to a food pantry and get help that way too….again, look under every rock for an opportunity!
Yea, you may have miszsed a train wreck so just keep in mind it may be fortunate for you! (((hugs))))
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amber says:
Hi everyone!! I’ve been away all day, but have read a little on this post about NC. I just got home from spending the evening with two very close girlfriends that are in HORRIBLE relationships. I won’t bore you with all the details, but I truly believe that they too are involved with S/P. I shared as much as I could with them. Told them how much this site has helped me and more importantly how important NC is for their own good. They both agreed with me. They keep saying, “oh my god, you’re so right. That’s what I’m going through. That’s what I’m feeling. That’s what I need to do.” It just makes me sad to see the pain they are in. It’s me just a few short months ago. But I can’t tell you how good it felt to share my knowledge and share what has empowered me to make the choices I have made. I just hope that they can take something away from what I said. I truly feel that the only way that the S/P personality type is going to be exposed or understood is by shraing experiences and knowledge. So I hope that I have at least planted a seed for them, to encourage them to do their own research or hope that they take the initiative to make positive moves in their lives. Ohhhhh…it just makes me sad that there are soooooo many people out there with this disorder and it goes unnoticed or ignored. I hope that I have helped them, even if it is in such a small way.
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Isabell says:
Dear Amber,
As I read your post, I can feel the weight of saddness. Can you imagine what it would have been like for you, if a dear friend, sitting across the table from you, would have expressed a ‘knowing’ of what you were experiencing with the clarity you shared with your friends tonight? Not only that, but also gave you a resource to connnect with for the sake of clarity?
Amber you were a beakon of light in their darkend world. Your suffering has not been in vain. You were once a piece of coal. Now, through the pressure of opression, you are now a diamond, gleeming, sparkling the light of truth to others…
Bless you.
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ErinBrock says:
Amber….that is all you can do….I remember people telling me….he won’t change…..I was (like al ot of us) SOOOOO certain they just didn’t know him like I did….he was a really good person deeeeeeeepppppp down….
Well….I never reached those depths of the sewer!
Isabell:
Look at you girl…..”.Beakon, diamond, light of truth.”…..
MAGNIFICANT!!!!!
I can hear your healing…….
You are a beautiful woman!! TREASURE YOURSELF!!!!
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ErinBrock says:
Real quick…….My bear came for his nightly visit…..and instead of checking around the driveway for whatever it is hel’s looking for….(probably me and my halloween candy)……he went right for a tree I have…..it’s not flourishing and it gets these little cherry sized berries on it, scantilly……..
The damn bear ripped my tree down for the few berries that were on it……
I’m out there watching him and I hear crack crack, crack….the whole top of my poor little ol tree is hacked!
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amber says:
Thanks for the encoraging words ladies. Just trying to pass the knowledge. It’s my determination to stand up for women who I know are in the same boat as I was. I want them to educate themselves, so they too, can make wiser decisions for their lives. I hope they take my advice and check this site out. I told them it’s what keeps me strong!
And EB…. that damn bear!!! You better be careful out there!! He sounds like he’s getting rowdy!! We don’t need you getting hacked!! Remember you have a movie in the works!!
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ErinBrock says:
I really do love my bears…..and this one has been such entertainment this year.
He stands up to reach things and then when he get’s whatever he wants, he sits down on his butt like a 2 year old enjoying his ‘feast’…..I go out and talk to him….I’m weird this way…..they are awesome creatures….and this one is my bud!
I’d only wished he hadn’t of tweaked my tree!!!!! BOOGER!
Ya know…..this is really odd…..when I bought this house, We were here for 4 years and NO bears….nothing on the wildlife front……weird…..
I swear….the minute I booted the S…..the wildlife energy opened up and they are more active than ever…..
I LOVE the wildlife, this is why I live here!
Once I got rid of the dirtbag, the real animals appeared! The ones with hearts and souls that I enjoy so very much!
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geminigirl says:
Skylar, Regarding that poor abused lost little girl that you were, I was the same at a very young age, around 3 or 4 I think. I posted once before how my Mum used to give me penny and send me out on my own for the whole day,-I know it was before I started school. As I started school at 4 and a half,the abuse must have been between the age of 3 and 4. I remember trudging along this disused railway line which seemed to go for miles, then having to climb steep white steps, on to the main village shopping centre, waiting for the no. 8 bus, handing over my penny, geting off at the right stop, and then the long exhausting climb up the hill and home.
I told no-one, not even my father, and as he was teaching all day, and as he got home after I did, he never knew. I tried to confront Mum about it in 1978, of course she totally denied it!
In 1978, I went to see a Hypnotherapist, who regressed me back to that terrified little girl. I wanted to know if Id been abused sexually,but,{ apart from me seeing a couple of “flashers,} thankfully, I was not. However, I believe that this experience, which went on for months, thankfully ending when I started school, contributed to me being such a shy, scared llittle girl. I went to a couple of workshops, which taught me to “pick up this little girl, an place her in your heart”.{I think we had to shrink her down first!} I know it sounds New Agey, and Hippy dippy, but I really believe this workshop helped me, to comfort and love that little girl who was me, then, and self comfort her.That little girl inside of you, and of me, is still crying out for comfort, love, validation and help. No-one else id going to give it to her but us, ourselves.Hope this helps!! Much Love, and {HUGS}} gem.XX
I also think that my Narc mother, {tho I adored her,} set me up for life to be ‘fresh meat’ for any p boyfriends, and looking back, all my boyfriends were either ns Ps, or Alcoholics, or all three.
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skylar says:
Geminigirl,
I remember that post about you walking into town at age 4.
I can’t imagine how traumatic that must have been for you or the survival mechanisms you took on to get through it.
I’m glad that your inner-little girl is safe now. Mine is feeling better today too. It’s amazing the power that words have to comfort and inspire us.
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Stargazer says:
Thanks for all the insightful posts. I am happy to announce that I started a set of 10 free sessions with a new counselor through a church on the other side of town. Not only did I really like her, but I even felt the spiritual approach to be just what I need. I cannot afford her normal rates, but I’m hoping she can work something out with me. If not, back to the drawing board.
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justabouthealed says:
Way to go Stargazer!!!
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Kathleen Hawk says:
Good for you, Star. I think all the approaches pretty much come down to the same thing, learning to love and take care of yourself.
Sky, I had to sleep on whether you can call me mom. I don’t know why. For some reason, I get that question from a lot of people. I don’t feel like mom. I feel like Sister Mary Catherine, the tough old fourth grade teacher at St. Francis of Assisi Elementary, who we all feared and loved. It’s a post-menopausal thing. I used to feel like Barbie. This is much better.
But you know, I write for people who can hear me. People who are where I am, or who can imagine being where I am. People whose brains are organized at least a little like mine.
And I mention this, because one of the reasons it took me so long to get up the nerve to write as I am was because I used to think I had to write pretty much the way I had to live. Do in the way that everyone would like me. Now I know better. If I’m me, I’ll attract the people who want to know someone like me, or read the ideas of someone like me. Which is much, much better than having to pretend I’m someone I’m not.
Which is pretty much what Oxy just wrote in a wonderful post on the thread under her latest article. This is me. If I look like mom to you, or like the guru on the road with the two-by-four whacking you and telling you to wake up, or the over-ambitious philosopher who sometimes writes herself out on a very long and skinny limb, it actually says more about you than me. Your dreams. Your needs.
We are all each other’s mirrors. If there is something you particularly love in me, it is something you love in yourself, whether on not you recognize it yet. And likewise, if there is something you fear. And likewise if there is something you need desperately. All of this is about you.
Not that I don’t enjoy it. I love being the mirror for other people’s dreams, and saying things that help them articulate them. But there is something even better than that. Something so memorable and rare that the times I’ve experienced it stand out like neon in my history.
It is the times when I’ve encountered someone in way that has absolutely nothing to do with me. When I’ve simply observed them as a separate being who is delightfully different, and has nothing I particularly want or fear, but is just so real that my sense of the world changes in their presence. Because I realize that there at least two of us. Two real souls traveling the world, with all the intelligence and life of the soul and survival instinct and memories of a lifetime to share with no reason except the pleasure of each other’s company.
It’s such a hair-raising experience that I’ve never been able to handle much more than one other person like that in the room, unless I count certain dinner parties or moments in a booth at a bar with a bunch of friends who are all on their second drink, or a few long-ago psychedelic experiences with near-strangers who joined me in shedding our egos.
It’s the best reason in the world to get well, to get over our histories, and develop new awareness of what’s going on around us, untainted by bitterness or anxiety. Just being human is pretty challenging, and I don’t think any of us, even the Dalai Lama ban in this clear-eyed state all the time. So neutral and awed and open to life.
But it’s so worth it to work on it. And in the meantime, to develop a sense of humor about our own projections. Not everyone is going to get the joke, when we smile when we admit we are in love with them or need them or are scared of them. Particularly not people who are intimidated by other people’s self possession. And when we meet people who do get it, we may not particularly enjoy the mirror reflection of our own irony.
But it’s another stage on the path. Ultimately even self possession falls before something else. Call it humility or gratitude or awe or something like that. Some comfortable awareness of how small we are in the larger scheme of things, how normal and predictable our dramas are, how predestined it was and how illusory our sense of who we are, and how little we can actually affect this great machine of life. And in that shrinking away of our uniqueness and importance, we surprisingly gain a perfect freedom to do and be anything. It doesn’t matter, except as it matters to us. And we are free to follow anything that intrigues us or concerns us or makes us happy.
That perfect freedom to be ourselves exists in all of us now. The fun of this work — and it will look like fun in retrospect — is clearing the path to knowing ourselves that way.
So Skylar, you can call me mom. And just playing along, if you were my daughter, I’d tell you everyday that I love the way you think. I love the way you’re going up. And I’m so proud of you.
Namaste, sweetie. To everyone that hears me.
Kathy
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ErinBrock says:
Kathleen:
Did you happen to see my ‘BOOK’ I responded to your question of me with…..
Fear or Healthy respect….
I have no idea where I posted it, and I just saw your post last night…..but I hope you come across it at some point.
I have thought about your question all day.
Thanks for the spark!
Keep well…..
EB
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Kathleen Hawk says:
Erin,
I may have missed it. Was it yesterday? I can go looking for it. I’m in and out so infrequently now that I’m missing a lot.
Kathy
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ErinBrock says:
It was last night….I’m sorry I cant remember the thread it was posted on….but it was very looooong……
I’ll go looking too…..
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Kathleen Hawk says:
Erin,
I just searched this thread and read more of your story than I knew. You just break my heart with good feelings for you and the wonderful kids you’ve brought up.
I really hope you write this whole story someday.
Kathy
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ErinBrock says:
Kathleen….I had it still on my desktop on word, so it wouldnt’t disappear into cypber holes……here it is….
I appologize to everyone who read this before……
Kathleen….
I’m sorry….I didn’t see your ‘gogetemgirl’ to me up above about 18 inches…..
THANKS FOR WRITING THAT, and I am glad I inspired these thoughts in you…..
Now to address your well written questions of me…..I hope I can respond with justice….
I have always attributed, as I told you before, my willingness to fight due to the fact that I was so downtrodden and after my cancer and et al….I got to the point when I gave up the fear.
As a youngster, into my mid 20′s I worried about EVERYTHING……back then….I came to the conclusion I was tired of worrying…..and realized that 99.9% of what we worry about never comes to fruition…..so each time I found myself in a state of worry….which was daily….does she like me, did I say something wrong, do something wrong, do a good job, make a good enough meal, park the car right, wear the right outfit, hurt someone’s feelings, blah, blah…..I started asking myself…….AM I, OR IS ANYONE I LOVE GOING TO DIE OVER THIS…..like DIE….as in death…the end….The answer was ALWAYS NO……so I trained myself to give up the worry and eventually I didn’t worry about everything…..It takes work and reminding myself to stand back and evaluate….
So….fast forward when I faced death…..ALONE…….I spent all these years fruitlessly worrying about others, and when I needed some worry at home plate, I was abandoned! Not only abandoned, but tortured….kids kidnapped, family alienated me and husband filed for divorce during treatments as a sabotage tactic.
I didn’t have much to live for, and I knew it would all be uphill…….but I wasn’t ready to die…..
So…….I gathered up my ‘fuck you’ attitude and decided to fight…..If I had of died…..I didn’t want the world talking about me as they had perceived (through his stories and lies) me……for eternity and brainwashing the kids with this as their memory of a mother who had always fought for them……
So this is where my ‘fuck you’ you are not going to kill me because…..I”M NOT AFRAID TO DIE attitude hit me….
I removed the fear of dying….my perception of the last, end, and greatest fear….
Whether it was the S or the Dissected Carotid artery or cancer killing me…..take me if it’s MY time…..BUT I AIN”T GONNA GO WILLINGLY.
So……the world changed for me……at that moment in time.
It kicked me in gear and I went high speed into healing, walking again, getting out there and doing what I needed to do….
Fear is very powerful, it can be paralyzing. I couldn’t be paralyzed……I wanted my kids safe and at home….so I had to give up fear.
YES…..I believe there IS a difference in being afraid VS having a healthy respect for the damage they are capable of.
One is fear and one is awareness.
I believe we should always be aware of everything around us……but NOT fear it!
I removed the being afraid equation and I decided I could do more damage to them, so they should be the one respecting ME with HEALTHY respect.
Since sociopaths see everything as win/lose…..I was going to do anything I could to expose and learn what it was I had to do…..tactic wise to repel BOTH of the sociopaths in my world…..the ex and the new business idiot. Legally! Show them legally, I was bigger, badder and not a force to be reckoned with. Like a tsunami…..we all think we can swim through one, until you have the wave hit!
I have taken precautions….alarm systems in my homes, security cameras, alerting the neighbors, having the police do house checks on both properties….
I won’t lie, cheat or steal…..and I have what we call dignity…..but I grew balls bigger than theirs and decided I was going to humble them in court…..and follow up hard in court, through the system to let them know…..I’ve got more smarts than you and I’ll use em! It’s empowering, and it enables me to teach my kids to stand up for what is right.
Since they are not capable of notching up their game, stop the lies and manipulations……I have a leg up there…..My story is always the same, because I have nothing to keep track of…..they do….but, they can’t!
I go in over prepared with the documentation….organized and presentable for the judge…..but I also go in organized and prepared with my body language for the S’s…..and this is a great tool…..invaluable.
Now….thus far, (and I hope it’s no more)….but whatever…bring it on…..I have only had 2 Sociopaths that I have gone into the courts with……but I have seen over 9 judges and 15 court appearances……and in the end is when I fine tuned the tactics directed AT the S’s. I paid attention to how everyone around responded to them, their behaviors and I learned how to approach the situation. I has worked for me.
Know the game!!!! Them, you and your judge.
Being concerned about the potential damage…..well….my safety…of course…..but I’m not going to run because of the fear, the threat. It goes back to I’m not afraid of dying concept.
Your question about the damage….as in things…..I separated myself out from my ‘things’ when I faced death…ya know….ya can’t take it with you…..BUT……it sure would be nice to live with them while I’m around…..so I am ambiguous about the items….I’ll fight for them, if they are bundled in the point and repelling the S’s…..yes….why not. It’s the cherry on the soda.
I think my main point in fighting is 2 fold…..exposure and repelling.
With the above, it adds to our element of safety, letting them know….sorry…I got your gig and I ain’t keeping my mouth shut about it and the law/courts/neighbors/ friends/family knows who you are! YOU CAN”T CONTROL ME, So stop trying, cuz your damn near jail with all your hiding!!!!
And if anything happens to me…….you’ll be the first person they look for!
If we look at how many of our sociopaths killed….(and I in no way mean any disrespect for those that have lived life threatening or lost their lives in situations of violence) it’s pretty low. Yes, Most Cluster B’s are talk, empty talk….destructive, but not gun toting, knife wielding kill you dudes. They are all capable of killing, but I am too….if we look at it that way.
So I place myself, in dealing with them….above them….I become smarter, savvier, more aware and more able to present a case that shows the truth….after that…it’s up to the judge…. I know my enemy and I don’t go in blind.
I do think, it’s KEY to be overly prepared, under emotional, emotional in the right presentations and hit all angles possible.
I didn’t know the inside out of the S #2…..the ex I knew inside and out, and can still predict his moves. Not the business S. I know him from what I reconned of him….and it was substantial recon….I have access to all his personal files…..he left them in the property and I evicted and took possession of everything. So I studied it all, every scrap. And made notes….Things that didn’t make any sense, made sense when I opened up another file folder….I put the puzzle of S #2 together. I contacted people undercover…..and I gathered other victims input on him….. I didn’t need much of it to present to the judge, because he had the burden to prove HIS case…..NOT ME.
So I didn’t reveal much…..just enough to let him know……I KNOW WHO YOU ARE! And I ain’t gonna keep my mouth shut and I could really cause you some damage with what I have!!!!
Another angle I took which also helped…..was going to community forums and asking this judge about how he deals with Cluster B’s from the bench…..He didn’t know about ‘cluster b’s’……Not surprisingly….so I went on my diatribe at the forum and they all were educated….surprising what a perceived ‘mentally ill’ person looks like when she’s educating the community……and rationally and answering questions and sparking interest…..(attacked two issues…..there). Hmmmmm not so psycho am I……Yes, I REALLY DID HAVE CANCER……thanks for the support!!!
I NOW use the description cluster B, when speaking with ‘outsiders’……because, if you ask someone if they know what a S is…..they all say yes,(and most have the perception of a killer, not their pastor, neighbor etc….) because we’ve all heard the word, but no one has the balls to say….NO, YA KNOW, I DON”T REALLY KNOW WHAT A SOCIOPATH IS……we’ve all been there….
But THEY ARE ALL stumped with CLUSTER B…..and ask WHAT a Cluster B personality disorder?…..and it’s my lead in…..I don’t have to force it on anyone……they ask….they are interested. Cluster B personality disorder……what’s that….
So….by going to this forum, and I only went because I knew we would meet this judge one day (the ex)and I had a personal agenda to network on MY level..…..it helped me personally and I’m sure it helped others……
Is that manipulation or networking? Hmmmm?
I think where they have a ‘leg up’ is in the lead up to court, the years or months it takes to get there….this is where we can’t take anything personal…..whatever they shoot, we need to listen and decode with the sociopaths dictionary…. NEVER TAKE IT PERSONAL…..They beat us up so badly leading up, that we end up saying enough, give it all to them. They financially destroy us, mentally, physically…..and this is where we break. This is where they win. But they don’t ever go away, they are NEVER HAPPY!
Again, in my case….it was the cancer/strokes/dissected carotid/alienation from my support etc….If THAT ALL DIDN”T BREAK ME……I was in for the long haul for sure.
It wasn’t easy…..there were a lot of times I doubted the process, I would back away for a few days….but I was always lead back. I knew I couldn’t walk away.
I changed attorneys……I couldn’t afford to…That was a vital move, I would not have done near as well……I would have been destroyed. My former attorney didn’t get it.
He told me straight up…..you can only choose one property….I said, no way….I have full title on my invest. Property….it’s always been mine…I’m not going to choose…..tell me the legal basis of your statement….he couldn’t provide a legal basis except my state was community property…It didn’t make sense! It was my legal property, I funded it, I managed it, and all rental checks came in MY name and I had ALL documentation…..WHY…he couldn’t give me an answer. I QUESTIONED AUTHORITY…..I’m good at that.
He eventually yelled at me…..at that point we no longer had a good working relationship and I felt like I was back with the S….kind of like….just shut up and do what I say…..I began to focus on finding the right attorney for my case…..this was a whole other bag of worms…..and costly….and very time consuming….I interviewed many….it was election time….I interviewed judges……I read books again…..and made the THANK GOD….right decision!
I paid attention to others advice that have been there….and weeded it out…..to fit my needs.
I read e-books about what others experience was like in court with a Narcissist. Essentially they are the same…..in court at least…..all a pain in the ass, all lying, all projecting and muddying the waters. I NEVER got involved with the muddying without documentation…….
Muddying works on the streets……because people love juice…and they squeeze it….but in a courtroom……mud is not productive to the S…..and Certainly NOT if it’s not provable.
Courts are based on facts! It’s a business transaction….cut and dry. S’s are emotional….this is why we can’t be! We need to be the CEO of our court dealings.
You wouldn’t go into a business meeting with shareholders in tears…..so control them in here! Period! AGAIN IT”S NOT PERSONAL, it’s all business!
S’s try and place us on the defensive……the whole time leading up to the hearings…and again in court…..There is NO LAW that we must respond to anything……we produce documents that are requested, but we don’t have to go on a letter writing campaign defending ourselves……NEVER! Stick with the facts. Bank statements, contracts, Deeds, former orders……and whatever you have documented Police reports, school reports, social workers reports, therapists reports, photos, videos, phone records etc….
Whatever it is you’re trying to show.
I knew what I was up against and dedicated myself to MY cause!
I think, in the end….yes….they are more threatening and we are certainly threatened from the intimate relationship we have had…..and this tends create more fear in us.
This is why our neighbors don’t believe us and are not scared of them, our family, our mutual friends…etc….if he was so scary, then why did you stay with them so long. They have a certain control over us that fears us out of fighting them in the legal arena.
In reality……I say fuckem…..let them know WHO you have become …..and if you find it a requirement……HAVE NO FEAR….THE EX OF A SOCIOPATH IS NOW HERE!!!!
After all that….I think I answered your question…..and yes, to sum it up….I agree with you Kathleen!!!
XXOO
EB
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Kathleen Hawk says:
Erin, great stuff. So many nuggets of wisdom and good advice that It’s worth reading over and over.
Right this minute, the takeaway for me is how you’ve become your own person. So full of dignity, so able to be objective and clear, even in the midst of the craziness they create, so … this thing I call self-referenced. But it’s a pretty abstract way of saying what you describe as a fuck-you attitude. You see through your own eyes and trust your own vision.
What you said about facing death and how that affected you also really resonated with me. I almost died of a fever when I was in my 20s, and also was caught in an undertow in the Pacific a few years earlier and nearly drowned. But nothing really gave me that near-death sorting out of what was important and what wasn’t until the aftermath of the experience with the sociopath. I was so sick and so close to suicide that it really forced me to reorder some of my thinking. I realized I wasn’t afraid of dying, but if I was going to live, I wanted to figure out what was worth caring about and what wasn’t. And then I started the long work of stripping off the silliness and the baggage.
But I didn’t have the battles to face that you did. Once I kicked him out of my life, he was gone. I lost what I lost, and everything that remained was mine. I didn’t have kids with him. Didn’t have business entanglements.
This battle gave you an opportunity to discover what you’re capable of in a way that just awes me. The way you use facts. The way you network and work the system you have to depend on. (You can dump the word “manipulate” from your vocabulary; it just means to shape or influence and it’s a good thing.) The way you realize that how you communicate is just as important as what you communicate. The way you dumped the unhelpful lawyer and invested what you really couldn’t afford to find the right one. The way you made a decision to win and make things as right as possible.
You say they can be threatening. They can, because people don’t see through them. But I totally agree about them not being able to step up, if we improve our game. They live off other people’s gullibility. You don’t find them hanging around with smart, strong people. And when pitted against one, if they can’t find a weakness to exploit or a way to discombobulate us, they are just screwed.
I didn’t have to do all the physical security things you’ve had to do, but I have mentally explored and rehearsed every scenario I could think of with my ex and with other people I see as potential threats, however minor, to my financial or emotional wellbeing. And it’s really paid off. I find myself saying things to people I never would have said before. Feeling entirely comfortable with challenging things they say or standing up for my own interests, and I don’t even have to be confrontational or competitive about it. I can smile when I say, “You’re not serious, are you?” or “That just doesn’t work for me.” As far as I’m concerned, this is friendly conversation. If they can’t deal with my self-interest, they need to find someone else who cares less about herself.
But my favorite thing, I think, in all of this was a line about letting them know who you’ve become. I know a lot of people go through a mourning phase wishing they were still the same trusting, loving, innocent person they used to be before they met the sociopath. And I know that a number of us suggest that they are subscribing to a fairytale that glorifies dependency and lack of responsibility. But what you’re saying here and what you’re doing makes the point so much better.
Empowerment isn’t just some cold concept. It’s the ability to use more and more of who you are. To do it with dignity. To be able to choose what you want and have enough faith in yourself to work for it to come out that way. To share emotional and ethical strength with our children, family and friends. And to attract affection and affirmation for the right reasons, because we are worth it, not because we’re buying with acquiescence and giving up who we really are.
Thank you for posting all this. It is invaluable stuff. The more you share, the more we get from you. Please keep it coming.
Kathy
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Kathleen Hawk says:
It’s probably getting too cold now, but in the spring, I think we should all visit to have a campout with shovels and metal detectors in your backyard. I could bring my dog, Jesse, who has a healthy respect for bears and would bark up a storm if one showed up. And Gracie who really likes to dig. And a couple of bottles of brandy, because I don’t like tequila. We could just get the whole place tilled for next year’s garden.
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ErinBrock says:
Kathleen,
I think the behaviors and ‘status’ (wealth, positions etc…) are all a peception we are trained to ‘fear’ or be threatened by.
Like if we had a rich neighbor that came on our property and removed our fence because he didn’t ‘like’ it. He completely stepped on our rights, we are in the right…he is completely wrong…….yet he mentioned he has a lawyer in his back pocket and what are you going to do to me…….MOST would shy away……and feel downtrodden……and ‘go away’ without raising a ruckus.
If we WANT our fence and it’s important to US…….then WHY would we back down because he has a lawyer in his ‘back pocket’ per HIS statement of threat.
If we look at all people-good/bad whatever as equal to us…..then we have more inclination to protect ourselves. We don’t need to fear the unknown or the perception people portray. It’s all an act!!!!!
We all have insecurities….ALL OF US!!!
We all have weaknesses, we all buy into projections……..but MOST of the time, it’s all empty and the reality is…….nothing to be threatened by.
I remember in the years prior to separation from the S……I got to a point where I doubted myself and my own judgements……not for very long, but I toyed with the idea of “Maybe I should trust him, like a wife should” Maybe it’s me. Trust his judgements.
I NEVER trusted him…..I always knew, but wasn’t aware of it, that something wasn’t right.
As I grew older, I was in charge…..I took control of business affairs, finances, purchasing whatevers……..all of it……because I didn’t trust his judgements. Little things he would do would destruct……
Our financial advisor never knew or held a conversation with him…..EVER! He later said to me, with his married clients, he always dealt with the male. After the divorce, I told him why.
So…my point was…..because I was fully aware of my wishy washy and how I got there……I think after separation and going through med. hell……I had a point to prove to myself also!
I NEVER made a bad financial decision, I never made a poor business decision……so….yes……it’s me and me only driving this ship…..and I found the complete trust in myself and my jugements again.
Another driving force was during all the hell, he infected the kids and parents…….He started saying things that he said I agreed to or told him or statements I had made…..THAT I KNEW FULL WELL I WOULDN”T HAVE!!!!! Then the kids started doing the same……then the parents…..
I was sick and on meds, so I thought with some of them…..REALLY…..I agreed to that? It seemed odd to me and unsetteling……SO….that’s when I bought me a digi tape recorder……and started recording all conversations.
I was also odd that NO ONE else in my life ever called me out on something I had promised and didn’t provide or stated etc….it was just HIM, kids and then parents…..
After listening to the recordings, I KNEW I had not said what I was being convinced I had….again….self doubt, all a strategy.
I needed to confirm that I could trust myslef and my judgements……meds and all.
So the floodgates opened when I played back the tapes…..
I put a stop to that behavior immediately by informing them I had taped our conversations and I wasn’t going to put up with that crazymaking shit they were all trying to pull.
I have wrestled with turning ‘cold’….there are times when I have had to….momentarily….but I was aware of it and why and I didn’t BECOME a cold person…..
My therapist and I discussed on many occasions my calling on my ‘inner sociopath’ in my plight in protection. We decided It was not a bad thing, as long as I never lost sight of who I was and am.
I know the difference between right and wrong….and had to be aware of the balance of ME.
I don’t think I lost innocense to him (in the beginning at 13, yes), I think he played on my innocense …..I just grew up….I don’t think I lost my ability to love….because I have so many people that I have known for years but couldn’t get close to formerly, for my own reasons of keeping people at bay……and I am experiencing the love of strangers also, and I know what it feel like to love my kids…..Trust….well I am willing to trust…..there are people I have trusted through this with a bare soul….and others I am not as open with…but trust on some levels……I think that part of me has grown up too……I have re-evaluated why I just gave trust and allowed myself to be vulnerable and set myself up to be the one hurt or damaged…..Now , it must be earned, and I drive on that road looking for the potholes. I ‘test’ peoople too, and rely on my gut!
I do think I designed my own ‘fairytale’. I think I was raised with fairytale images and he latched on to it and acted the role on the outside…….
I remember laying in bed a handful of times, when couples share intimate thoughts and words…..hopes and dreams, ideas…..He went along with all my words…..as if he had writen the scripts. He was my husband, it was a time to be honest and bare souls…..WHY would I doubt him….I was baring my soul…..if we spoke of having 5 kids and he only wanted 2…….why would he say he always dreamed of having 5 kids…..planning our future out, the (what I thought) was the give and take conversations of dreams…..That would have been the time for him to speak up and also bare his soul of wanting to have sex with men and how would I feel about that….or maybe subsidizing our income with drug sales in order to have more security and retire earlier…..or how he maybe felt about having an open marriage…….This would have been a good time to get MY INPUT on these ideas he had already been living in his secret life.
But instead, he knew he could keep me around by allowing me to think we were parallell in our hopes and dreams……..and he knew I would never be okay with his secret life, so he went along with all of my ideals…..my fantasy of what I wanted from life and wanted to share it with this man. He was like being married to the government…..DOn’t ask-don’t tell was his policy. Take it to the grave.
I did mourn my fantasy…….or the reality of what I found out……and how my life previous was a facade…….a shell of what I wanted to share….. I questioned every day of the past 28 years…..and what was real where he was involved…….I came to the conclusion…..NOT Much……
The saving grace of this all was years ago, i decided I wasn’t going to ‘wait’ for him……He never wanted to camp or fish…..I went by myslelf and later the kids….He never wanted to leave home…..I travelled with the kids and a girlfriend….I started doing whatever I wanted. He never did anything traditional at the holidays…..the kids cried out…..why do we not have a tradition…..We developed them…….but the S never participated……
We got to the point when ONE time he came camping and it was all about him, we couldn’t wait for him to leave and go home…….he stayed one night. One night of misery!!!
I have also become much more confident in speaking up for myself. I avoided confrontation like the plague…I hid behind the S and allowed him to be the confrontator……he loved that role……But I have staff I need to manage, family I need to let know how they participated, and kids to raise. None of the necessary confrontations were going to “kill’ me, so I just do what I have to do, when I gotta do it.
The security…..wow….that has served me wonders…..and it’s funny because, I didn’t buy it for my safety or anything like how it’s turned out…..I bought the original cameras to watch the kids in the driveway play. I din’t have a window that faced that direction……But….he knows nothing get’s by me here. I mostly work at home and He used to say I was OCD about seeing what was going on around me…..
I also have secured other aspects of my life, I feel is essential…..like only allowing people ‘in’ that are genuine and ‘get it’……I have tried to close all avenues of ‘attack’.
I do know he will not be ‘gone’ forever…..he’s been quiet for far too long……I believe the attack will come when the oldest turns 18 in may….he may wait until the harassment order is up in July……but I feel he is laying low and NOT because he’s tired of me.
I was just thinking today about all the peole he has to pick up his slack of being an idiot. His sister in law writes letters for him, his brother gets his mail and forwards it and sorts it……banking also…….he has other supply arranging flights and taxes and others doing his dirty work trying to infiltrate us…….and retreive whatever it is he has here…
He is such an idiot…..he would never be compelled to learn about things in order to be successful in life……his way to success is through others…….and others will always be willing to ‘feel sorry’ for him and ‘step up’…….until they are ‘stepped on’! And it WILL happen…..
I look at all the poeple he has gone through….all his ‘friends’ and how they all said….dude, i’d do anything for you……and I wonder if any of them notice….that when their fathers die….where the hell is he? When they have trauma, or need help….where is he? None of them question him, because he keeps all of them ‘watered’ down……he comes and goes as he needs them…..NOT as they need him.
The S has 3 groups he hangs around with, RICH people….and networks off of them….they are all vehicles to the next rich person……..Rich = smart to him……
Old high school people….he was never accepted fully as he wanted, so this is his target drug sales….he can protray to himself that he is finally popular…..because he has the drugs!!!
And young people…..easily manipulated and guided to believe what a great – cool dude he is…..and everyone wants HIS life.
GOD….if they only knew the truth……
This is the ‘watered’ down deal…..no one knows All of him…..it’s only when you live with him, work with him, are in an intimate relationship do you see all…….and even then we can keep our blinders on……..
Your comment “And when pitted against one, if they can’t find a weakness to exploit or a way to discombobulate us, they are just screwed”….
One of the S#2 posessions I seized was hi computer…..I ‘glanced’ at it last night…..one day I will print out a letter and post he wrote about custody issues with his ex……it was classical reading it……CLASSIC attack of everyone involved….from the Guardian Ad L, to the nursery teacher, mom and her family……why they are not worthy persons to breath the air we all share and how he gave them all a chance….the spins, personal attacks etc….NONE with any docuemtnations backing his statements up…..all emotional-personal attacks…..this was what he did to me in court….stating I was trying to cash 12 checks he wrote me fulfiliing the contract in advance, but I tried to cash them at the bank all in one day….yelling and screaming in the lobby of the bank……and this was why there was not enough funding.
I simply said to the judge…..your honor, I was given 2 checks…one for 100. and one for 4K…..the first three visits to the bank the 100.00 check bounced. I finally was able to cash the 100. check a week later and never could cash the 4K check due to insufficient funding.
It’s NOISE…..the blah, blahs, just noise….but we get caught up and start participating in their muddying of waters by defending …..then everyone is confused and tunes BOTH parties out.
We need to stick to the facts….and it’s hard being a survivor of a S……..we live on the defense…..
WELL FOLKS…..IT”S TIME TO TAKE THE OFFENSIVE APPROACH…..and turn the tables!
Kathleen, you are a true inspiration to me and I love your writings…..and you havn’t heard the last of me yet girl……I’m working on what I need to be and at some point you’ll be the first to see it!
Thanks for the encouragement.
EB
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ErinBrock says:
No doubt huh……I plan on finding it in the next few weeks……I’m in a holding pattern….this is when I let myself lead……if that makes any sense…..
I’ve got my plan B….and I am stocking up….and waiting for the call from the S’s friend who claims to be mine….weird!
But I ‘get it’……HA!
So……….
I think
I plot
I plan
I listen
I recon
I wait
and I act when I am led…….
Always works….and if not…..then it wasn’t meant to be….no worries….
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skylar says:
EB, I love your post. Riveting.
You’re right we must be aware but we have nothing to fear. We see right thru them.
In truth, there are sociopaths out there everywhere.
I have a revised estimation based on my research and personal experience: 50%.
yep. hate to break it to everyone but the neural diversity is growing.
My P-mother who I often discuss this with, said it before I did. But that figure was already in my mind.
The only thing keeping them in check is the law – and each other.
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libelle says:
Dear Kathy and Skylar. Thank you so much for sharing your conversation. It was such a relief and inspiring moment for me reading it. The 16 points, so wonderful.
When Kathy said:
“It is the times when I’ve encountered someone in way that has absolutely nothing to do with me. When I’ve simply observed them as a separate being who is delightfully different, and has nothing I particularly want or fear, but is just so real that my sense of the world changes in their presence. Because I realize that there at least two of us. Two real souls traveling the world, with all the intelligence and life of the soul and survival instinct and memories of a lifetime to share with no reason except the pleasure of each other’s company.”
That is what makes me feel priviledged working with my cancer patients. They are also in a vulnerable phase and open up, and I can assure them and guide their souls onto safer grounds by telling them what will await them. These are very precious moments for me, and rare too, and they keep me enjoying my work despite the N and S and P infesting my place more and more.
Funny though everybody is now making fun at the S/N/P-nurse who did silent treatment with me for a year. Some weeks ago she took the computer mouse with her in her holidays so her substitute nurse could not work properly at first (she did not hand the password either to her). And she stopped the delivery of the TGIF-cake from the bakery for the two weeks she was in holidays. Lots of giggling was going on when the nurse’s aid was sharing the “hot news from dragon’s palace”, especially because of the mouse which got swiftly replaced by the IT-people of the hospital, so was the password….
As for not getting responses to posts: I take it as a learning point when I do not get responses for my posts and start having a “neglected feeling” in my stomach, as any blog is an offer and one can’t force the others to respond. I take the blog as release of personal stuff in cyberspace so I do not “own” it anymore. And everybody is free to take notice or let it float by.
I remember that my parents and the sister were playing “Where is Libelle?”, when I was 4 or 5 years old, looking under the table, looking in the drawer saying “Oh I can’t find her” in a sad voice, and I was desperately jumping around them shouting “here I am”, but they seemed not to notice me, and had lots of fun!
Lots of strange things surface at the moment: when the parents “forgot” us in front of the front door while shopping or going to golf for hours, and the neighbors next door had already prepared beds for the night! I also remember that I was watching the film “The sixth sense” with Bruce Willis and I could not find out what it was so horrible about that film, it was meant to be a horror film but it seemed not horrible at all to me. The clue was that the main characters were all dead, and nobody talked to them.
My colleague I watched the film with years ago found out in the middle but would not tell me when I asked her. (She is a N as well I think now, I went NC with her years ago because I thought she was toxic, my very first deliberate NC!!)
This week I had a bad flash back of all the above memories as the “saintly colleague” who does silent treatment with me and who is the supply of the N boss, showed some future plans to the assistant (I should know of them too as I am in her rank as well) but she carefully hid them from me but made sure I noticed the showing. I felt the odd feeling in the stomach again.
She also managed slowly but surely that all the other doctors of our “team” ignore me and leave the room when I enter, and hardly say “Good morning” at all. It is just plain awful.
5 more months to go!!!! Unfortunately my future partner met one of my “team” on a conference and mentioned me “having found a new working place”. The partner told me that he did not mention that we were teaming up, and said that this very nice doctor (sic!!) spoke very friendly about me and had mentioned that I was not “feeling well there any more” (I could puke). Anyway, I am now curious when they approach me as I did not disclose my plans to them (they will get my resignment soon). Next friday we will meet to discuss conferences and holidays for next year. The bad point is that my paper is still not submitted, and I am stuck. I feel cold and sad and insecure and tired. Like in the gospel “some times I feel like a motherless child”.
I heard from a patient that she was told to take life like a book. Turn a page every day. Start a new page every day. I will try as well (maybe the stuff we tell the people makes sense to me too??)
Last week I did a lecture on “breaking bad news”, and one of my colleagues in fact was questioning the stages of Kubler Ross. I was speechless!
Thanks for letting me vent, it is awfully long too.
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JaneSmith says:
I’ve read more than half of the comments to this thread and will continue reading them. But first, I would like to share a bit with you lovely folks.
I no longer spend as much time as I once did on the unhealthy, destructive dynamics created by PDIs. Madly researching and reading many valid, reliable sources, soaking up knowledge like a dry sponge. Seeking always seeking answers, clarification, affirmation that my childhood and adulthood painful experiences had meaning, that they weren’t just random occurences. That there must be a reason for why and how.
And I hit the lottery so many times with written material by caring and concerned authors and of course, the jackpot-LoveFraud.
Okay, so once I began my diligent reading, educating myself I was forced to also look inside myself to visualize how I allowed myself to be victim. Yes, I was accountable for allowing parasites, abusive people in my life. Thing is, as we all realize now, I had 0 fundamental self protective skills to fight these creeps. To distance myself from them and their hateful, cruel behaviors and actions.
Boundaries? What are those? Had no idea a few years ago. I do now and they are non-negotiable. Absolutes. They are mine, I possess and impliment them daily because they are sensible, rational and thoroughly logical for my continued serene, ordered, calm and peaceful life.
I not only want a serene life, lacking in any chaos or drama. I need it to maintain my sanity. To help nurture spiritual, intellectual, and psychological growth and health. And if I must discard all the dead weight (my former mental state as well as parasites) then I must do it.
As Donna and Stiles so eloquently wrote, it is necessary to rebuild ourselves from the ashes of our past heartbreaks. Like the Phoenix. Emerging from the ashes in a display of fiery beauty and renewal. That’s us. All of us folks on LF and in the world.
It takes determination, patience, time, and a solid belief that you are a valuable human being. That you most certainly matter in the grand scheme of the universe. I don’t doubt this about myself for one damn minute.
I am here. I exist in this very place and time. I live and breathe and love and care and hurt. I am a true human being, with all my foibles, my quirks and all my virtuous qualities that make me what and who I am.
As all of you are. Please spend time dispelling those myths, from Donna’s list for yourselves. They aren’t real. They are false, the opposite of true. Who you really are as people is impossible to encapsulate in a few words.
You are all so very complex, so interesting and vibrant that I strive to gleam as much as I can by reading your heartfelt, sincere and genuine words.
Don’t go changing to try please anyone. Do it for yourself.
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notagain says:
Hello everyone,’
I just watched this documentary about a psychopath. Worth a watch.
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/i-psychopath/
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teacher123 says:
Notagain,
Thanks for the link. It does reinforce what we know about narcissists/psychopaths and their ways. It seems that no one is immune from Dr. Sam’s abuse as he even attacked the successful filmmaker in this documentary for no apparent reason. And that is their modus operandi in general to throw you off guard- to doubt yourself in their magnificent presence. Going back to the article, I don’t think I had many voids to fill, but was still taken by a very manipulative and yes visually beautiful person. I was led to believe that I was special to this person, and she made me feel like I was the only one in her world. I don’t fall easily, and I have a wonderful wife and fulfilling family life. But this persons agenda was to take me and try to kill my soul. My revenge is to let them know that I am like the lyrics from a Baby’s song- back on my feet again.
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icanseeclearlynow says:
Kathleen Hawk Says:
“You and I grew up with two problems. One was a tolerance for fear and brutality (because we had to become used to it). The other was an inflated sense of our own responsibility and power to change things for other people. We literally became the sacrificial lambs of the family. And in going out into the world, our ideas of our own limits were completely warped. We thought we could live through too much. We didn’t recognize impossible situations and dangerous people. In our understanding of survival skills, we had no training to recognize that respectful relationships, self-love, peace of mind, decent pay for work, and other things that were simply out of the question in our family homes were actually necessary. Not luxuries but necessary.
I am the early stage of recognition and recovery and mostly I am just doing my best to get through each day, taking care of myself once again so I can heal physically, so that I can then move onto spiritually and psychologically healing. It’s an enormous amount of STUFF to deal with all at once. My mind just wants to make sense of it all because the betrayal and PERSONAL NEAR DESTRUCTION of my soul is just….well it’s the SUDDENNESS of it hitting me full force has left me in a state of shell shock.
I try to get through each day, but there are constant triggers and intruding flashback memories all over teh place and I HATE it! I want him to STOP invading my conscioiusness. I feel like he’s done an invasion of the body snatchers on me
I get alot of validation from the LF blog and it’s reassuring to read about others further along in the path of recovery. But then at the same time I also feel like it’s all too much for me a lot of the time.
If I were only dealing with all of my physical problems, it would be one thing. But with all the mental sh*t on top, it’s doing me in.
I feel like I need to exorcise him. And I know that the way to do that is to concentrate on me. The problem with that is it’s a spiral. When I start looking at myself and taking care of myself and healing, it BRINGS him up!!!! It’s all so entwined
He’s a SOUL THEIF!!!! And I WANT MY FREAKEN SOUL BACK!!!!
What void did he fill? He BECAME (portrayed) my soul mate from teh moment he met me. I was an open book on a dating site. He read the whole book and then with his Oscar worthy morphing skill had me.
What do I believe about myself?
That I am unlovable.
That I will always be alone.
That if I am good, do good, if I am understanding, helpful, ethical, take the high road, and be EVEN MORE UNDERSTANDING (he’s tormented and feels guilty..I should CUT HIM SOME MORE SLACK)….that all of my “goodness” will magically make everything right and better (even the most deceitful, conniving, pathological lying, self- absorbed, greedy, hateful, unloving, rejecting, abusive, spiteful, petty, TWISTED, MEAN and VIOLENT BASTARD).
Oh…and another thing I’m learning about myself. I HATE it when anyone gives undo attention to my looks or physical attractive, concentrates on it too much, gives too many compliments on my looks, stares at me, flirts with me immediately based on my looks when they don’t even know me.
I know have issues with that. I now know he figured taht about me (when I even didnt’t know how much of an issue it was for me…until now) and he exploited that BIG TIME. THe prick.
I’m sure he took sick spath glee in alternating between overdone superficial flattery of how “beautiful” I am (which bugged the shit out of me) followed by sadistically cold rejection for another woman, then begging me back again and shoving it in my face….repeatedly.
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angelforyou says:
Finding the meaning in the Betrayal of a sociopath……
I know that I will learn to be stronger, to not trust (as much as I WANT to be trusting), to delve deeper, to protect myself.
I am still SCARED, like he keeps popping up in my mind today…not good thoughts, just that the image of him in front of me, blank like a cardboard cutout.
Even though I THINK he is far away, I am still SPOOKED.
Is it the red flags all waving in my face taunting me?
Am I embarrassed? I feel scared thats how I feel…
Its been nine months since he left and THANK GOD!
He changed me. Am I isolating because I am afraid to meet up and not trust ANYONE? Am I isolating because I am scared?
I took 2 1/2 months off work when it hit me! I couldn’t be running around trying to save lives and make people feel better when I had been hit with…I DIDN’T KNOW WHAT THE H***IT WAS….evilness…insidious
Right now…work HELPS me…should I go to work 7 days a week? 13 hours as day??? Maybe…
I cannot wait until I get all the good feelings that I deserve from all this he has caused.
Do I think I am crazy…Hell yeah! He made me that way!
I still think it is me, that I am the bad one…I know it is the brainwashing. He stole ME. What is he trying to do???
What is he doing with all these souls…trying to fill himself up? What is up?
No one has the right to mess with us…to feel they are right, entitled, almighty, manipulate, put down, use, dismiss/charm my loved ones,…how scary how evil, how controlling.
TAKE SOME DEEEEP BREATHS……….
I am going to take a bath now and then go put my face to the sun….
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silvermoon says:
I think you said it when you said he stole me – or tried to.
I loved Kathleen Hawk’s piece on returning to wounded innocence where she talks about how we allow them to be what we needed in exchange for letting them have what they need from us-
Somehow, I get that.
And I get recovering from the dreamy forgiveness of the whole thing when my therapist asks me whether I’ve done an AIDS test yet – like that isn’t a BIG DEAL?
The reality of his lying and cheating and his history of it kind of wipe away the dreamy love story like a brillo pad cleans a pan. It is a grimy, slimy work he made.
The stupid part seems to me that he first tried to steal what was given and then thought he was smarter than all for having done so.
Its such a headbanger I don’t think there is any sense to be made. I can’t make it a sad love story. Somedays, I think it all could be a nomination for DARWIN AWARD!
All I know is sun is warm, bath is good, chocolate is a food group and LF has been a really good place to be.
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angelforyou says:
Silver,
I have read your train post also ….yes…yes …and you are left scrambling, stunned, searching. SLAM!! Whoosh!!! So many unanswered questions.
How DARE they take away our dreams , slipping into our lives like the slime they are…. and bring us to their level at times. We keep looking seeking trying to figure it out.
I want him to burn burn burn. I really don’t have anything left in my heart for him. I do worry about his destruction that feels like a tornado hit. And he goes on…hopping from country to country. DESTRUCTION
I have lots of READING to do. I need to get processing this. It took me 8 months to realize that I am dealing with something more than a “S word” I threw out here and there since it happened . And, maybe, I have to find a therapist who understands.
You are right, something in us allowed us let them into our lives. Need to work on the vulnerabilities. That will provide some answers. OH I have big boundries right now. Damn the terrorists!
Oh they are stupid stupid stupid. We make things so easy , but that is not enough for them…drama drama drama…But then that stupidity is what saved me…He is GONE and that is GOOD.
I am soaking all this in and learning about the mirroring, the projection, how they do not trust (but we did), and that was huge. If we question…oh how dare us!!! Shame on us! I let him have his space, how dare he accuse me of getting on his computer…never touched it!! He was all over mine though…..WE ARE NOT LIKE LIKE LIKE THEM!!
It is an evolution, I want a revolution. OUT with the Spaths! NOT ALLOWED!
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angelforyou says:
Ok I’m here but I’m reading the healing stuff by Kathleen Hawk
and….
listening to the F…Y…song
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angelforyou says:
Well that didn’t work…can’t listen to that song and try to read and learn…
So…
just reading….
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conomo says:
Angel…still here? I love the analogy that they are stealing souls to fill up the deficit in theirs. That makes sense even if they don’t know that’s how they are functioning.
So : WHATEVER YOU DO–DON’T FEED THE SOUL STEALERS/STEELERS!
I’m scared too darlin….maybe for different reasons, but fear is fear. For our love, money, safety….
I’ve started my Betrayal Bond book as I was compelled to. It seems I need to keep reading others accounts to cement it in my brain that what I experienced is indeed an encounter with a full blown sociopath. It is hard to come to terms with as many have expressed. I know I must for my safety now. His behaviour has become obviously dangerous. He’s still in jail so I have time to heal and plan!!!!
Is it time for the FU song??? Enjoy it for me if it is—no way in hell dial up will let me play it….
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conomo says:
Maybe I should have said Heaven.
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angelforyou says:
LOL you’re makin’ me laugh.
I am not listening the the fu song without YOU. Sounds like you are making your own music!
Speaking of ideas for songs….I am thinking a few musicians had Ss in their lives…
I was reading another post of yours today.
Guns really up the ante on scary. BE SAFE GIRL! Keep plannin’!
My S wanted to get a gun…I thought what in the heck for??!!
scary scary scary…lookin’ over our shoulders
I like your new name Conomo…its STRONG
okay back to healing/reading for a half hour then to bed, well , I’m already there. I have to work the next 4 out of 5 days. Then divorce DAY.
Good night sweet one and everyone xxooo
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conomo says:
I think our time zone is different on top of time change here.
So glad I made you laugh….I try so hard to make me laugh…so happy to take someome along on that devious trail!!!
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conomo says:
I’m nor really devious…God I’m always doing post scripts….makes me wanna cry…SOB’s do that
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angelforyou says:
You sound on the happy side…thats GOOD!
It is now 933 pm. I have to get up at 500am so…to bed for me..What time is it where you are?
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angelforyou says:
Just a minute.
Are you saying it is devious to laugh?
We need to laugh, we are stressed out.
Laughter is healing.
I know you know that too.
I have just had a kind of venting day, but feeling MUCH better now.
I am reading Kathleen Hawk’s healing steps. And she is bringing up some points that are hitting home and right on.
I am feeling kind of slow here, been here about 2 or three weeks and well I guess I have been JUMPING around on the reading.
N E Ways! GOOD Night!!!!!!!!
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