ASK DR. LEEDOM: Why has my husband cut our daughters out of his life?
PDF This week we received the following letter from a reader of the blog. I wanted to share both the letter and my reaction to it with you:
After 30 yrs of marriage and abuse, I have finally left my passive
aggressive sociopathic narcissist husband. I have managed the No Contact fairly well, of course he is the KING of the silent treatment so it doesn’t seem to bother him.What I simply do not understand is this: We have two daughters, ages 22 and 24. We USED to have a close family, the girls were close to their dad. However after they have witnessed him abusing me, they have had a few ‘spats’ with him lately.
What completely baffles me, is that when I started the No Contact about 2 1/2 months ago, he completely stopped talking to our daughters. He hit me, and they were both angry at him, and they all argued via email and cell phones, since they live far away from us. After they got angry with him for hitting me, he cut all communication off with them. They do not call him or email him either, because they are angry and do not want to ‘beg him for his love,’ so they are all at a complete standoff.
I do not understand why he will not pursue contact of any kind. Our oldest daughter is married and having our first grandchild in a few months. She is angry at her father and yet broken hearted. She wonders if he ever thinks of her, of her pregnancy, if he cares? I don’t understand why he will not contact them, other than he is angry at them for ‘taking my side’ after he hit me, or he is a coward; afraid of how they will react to him. He used to be extremely close to them, but the older they got, the further apart they all drifted.
Both of our daughters are very strong ladies, but are not disrespectful to him. I would like to know what he is thinking or doing? Why has he cut his daughters out of his life?
Reaction 1
I wanted to entitle my next book “Stop Being Baffled” but Donna didn’t like that title so it is now Driven to Do Evil. Here is a quote from the Chapter 1:
…nevertheless, the (sociopath’s) behavior has baffled us because we have misunderstood the main purpose of his behavior.
Ben Bursten, M.D. The Manipulative Personality, 1971
Just what is the purpose of a sociopath’s behavior toward others? It usually boils down to either power or sex or some combination of the two.
The reason we are baffled by sociopaths is that it is hard to comprehend an inner world where the love motive does not exist. It is also hard to understand that sociopaths lack the love motive because they seem to enjoy intimacy and affection to a certain degree. It is just this enjoyment is not connected to any deep obligation to take care of another person.
So stop being baffled. He moved on because there was no real reason to interact with his daughters because they stopped being a source of power reward (also called narcissistic supply).
When you interact with a sociopath it is important to always keep in mind that he/she does not possess a love motive. By love motive I mean any need to maintain a relationship where care is given to another person independent of what is gotten in return. Sociopaths will sometimes give care when there is something in it for them.
Reaction 2
We have to educate everyone in our society about what the love and power motives are. We have to teach everyone that love means caretaking and giving, and that there are some in our families who are NOT capable of love.
Just like it is unreasonable to expect a blind person to drive a car, because he/she cannot see the road, it is unreasonable to expect a sociopath to parent.
Parenting means taking care of another person and maintaining a connection out of the joy of loving and giving. A person who cannot love has no joy in giving and so cannot parent. It is that simple.
Reaction 3
Perhaps your adult daughters would be willing to write and talk about what it feels like to have a sociopath as a parent. We need to collect these statements and use them to change our society.
Reaction 4
This disorder is familial and also related to alcoholism/addiction and ADHD. Please consider reading my book, Just Like His Father? to help you think about the needs of your grandchild.
written by Liane Leedom, M.D. • Permalink •
shabbychic says:
heavenbound, WOW! God works in mysterious ways, that’s for sure! It is amazing what children notice and figure out on their own. I’m glad you can bring up the subject now and teach them about life and people (like you said, without making it about their father). You had the perfect calm reaction! You are in my prayers, please say a little prayer for me too!
(Report abusive comment)
heavenbound says:
shabbychic,
Thank you! and you got it! I’ve already said one for you and I will continue to! Love, hugs, and prayers heavenbound
(Report abusive comment)
henry says:
Heaven Who would of thunk Joey Butterbuttho – was the turd you needed to talk about to catch your son’s intuitiveness.. Is that a word? intuitiveness? Spaths reveal themselves to everyone sooner or later, even to those that love them..I am happy your son see’s it sooner – I was forty something before I saw through the mask of my mother…
(Report abusive comment)
ErinBrock says:
Heaven:
I am sure MaryJo would be thrilled to know how her journey has affected you and been called upon to enlighten a child.
These are the reasons we need to continue to write books, tell our stories and expose these behaviors in our society….
I am estatic that your son made a connection…..this is what happens and we never know what will precipitate this event.
One Turd’s behaviors exposed another Turd…..for a child……HOW PRICELESS!!!!
Don’t tell Joey…..he may think there should be money or ‘royalties’ or fame in it for him!!!
No Joey…..your idiot behaviors just exposed another……
Heaven, your kids are on a great path……..it’s snowballing!
(Report abusive comment)
OxDrover says:
Dear Heaven,
There are news stories on the TV about Ps and there are happenings all over that you can use as conversation starters with your children.
Also, there are some great Bible stories, LIke Ahab’s wife is a classic P, and the way that Joseph had forgiven his brothers, but before he revealed himself to them he TESTED THEM to see if they were still the same CRUEL people they had been, but when he saw that they would sacrifice their own lives for Benjamin so that the would not make their father suffer again by the loss of the last “favorite son” that they had changed.
Also some of the old stories about parents in the Bible, like having “favorite” children, shows that some of the people were not the kinds of parents they should have been. Look at Eli and his sons.
Jesus and St. Paul both talked about how to deal with people who know the truth but behave sinfully and won’t quit their bad behavior—NC.
Jesus also told us to Know a tree by its FRUIT (behavior) so there are endless examples in the Bible that show how to deal with psychopaths, i.e. people whose hearts are hard and their intentions evil. Just as Jesus dealt with the Pharisees
I’m reading a book now on the Dead Sea Scrolls now and the information there on the in-fighting among the various sects of the Jews and the polliticians sounds almost like a modern day newspaper! Just the names of the parties are changed! LOL The “do-as-I-say” attitude, vs the “not-as-I-do” that is preached by many FAKE “religious” people who are Ps in a mask of holiness.
(Report abusive comment)
skylar says:
good morning,
Sometimes when you are young or, as in my situation, you were not raised to by good parents, you may not be able to judge what is good behavior and what isn’t very easily.
Also, the P’s will hide behind good behavior. That’s what makes them so confusing. They are soooo nice at first, and they treat you wo well. Then, when the mask begins to slip, you tend to judge them on the entirety of what you have seen rather than just one red-flag incidence. So you tend to want to forgive the bad behavior. A really smart, subtle P will load you up on good and admirable behavior before he starts the sublte attacks. By that time you don’t know what hit you.
So that’s going to be the hard part, teaching kids that the really, really bad people PRETEND to be good and PRETEND to love you.
I think that Jesus’ advice “you will know a tree by the fruit it bears” is not about watching for behavior. Behavior can be seen instantly, but fruit is borne over time. I think what He meant is that, if you look a the entirety of a P’s life you will see destruction in his wake. There will be lots of enemies, or past monetary losses, or a lack of a history, because they walk away and start over again so many times in their lives. The lack of any good fruit can be just as telling as the bad fruit.
(Report abusive comment)
OxDrover says:
Sky,
Your take on the “inspecting fruit” is another good aspect of it. Fruit IS borne over TIME, and if a person has a CONTINUAL bad crop, year after year, then the “tree” is bad.
I remember one parable where the Lord was talking about a farmer who had a tree that was giving bad fruit, and his servant came and said, “let’s give it one more chance, I will fertilize it and cultivate around it, and if it doesn’t give good fruit after that, we can then cut it down.” the master agreed.
Giving someone (in some cases) a second chance to shape up is a good thing, but if after that, there is no improvement, we should cut them down like a bad tree, i.e. NC.
I unfortunately kept on giving “second and last” chances 100 times! I had “malignant hope” TOXIC hope that I could effect an improved crop from a rotten tree—won’t happen.
Yes, learning that EVIL people do PRETEND to be good is a great many of the lessons in the Bible. Look at what Jesus said about the Pharisees, “they were like tombs”—beautiful and decorated on the OUTSIDE but ROTTEN withIN. They preached one thing but DID another, so their behavior didn’t match what they preached. There are so many good lessons in so many different places, the Bible, even in The Brothers Grimm, to use as examples of people who PRETEND TO BE GOOD but are looking for a chance to take advantage.
Teaching children (or even adults) CAUTION I think is a very important thing.
(Report abusive comment)
skylar says:
Here’s an interesting story about autism and asperger’s.
The new DSM is coming out and they are calling these disorders a spectrum. The main criteria is social awkwardness but often with a special gift or talent.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11.....=2&em
My xP is extremely gifted mechanically. It’s like he has a 6th sense when it comes to parts in motion. But he lacks in verbal skills, reading and writing and math. And also, of course, empathy for others.
I wonder if he doesn’t have a combination of asperger’s and narcissism. Would the narcissism override the “socially awkward” aspect of asperger’s? In other words, since he has no social skills based on empathy and the ability to understand emotion, perhaps he adapted the narcissism ability to “mirror” emotions in order to acquire, “social skills”.
The article mentions that people are basically classified by their most predominant symptom. This means that if they also happen to have an additional personality disorder, it would be ignored. It would be interesting to know if anyone has done any studies on autistic adults who were also abused or traumatized as children.
(Report abusive comment)
shabbychic says:
skylar, this is so interesting because for several years I have believed that the man I was with for 14 years was a narcissist with mild Aspergers… his brother has a son with Asperger’s / Autism (not a mild case for the boy, he talks but does not get along with others and is with a foster care family who wants him out… I still talk to the N’s sister) and I have wondered if it is passed thru the genes on the male side of the family, the N’s 2 brothers are losers as well.
Their father was very strict, always yelliing at them, even when they were adult men into their 40′s and 50′s. The N I was with also lacked verbal, reading, writing, math skills (and his brothers too).
The N was musically gifted but was not able to handle the business side of trying to get a gig, he would go into a club for open mike night and sit in a corner. We got to know people, but nobody close that we would socialize with.
He was also completly fixated on two sport activities that he loves, almost to the exclusion of anything else. Only time he really wanted to go out and do anything had to have one of the sporting activities as the end result (maybe the exception was a movie, or seeing his family).
He was a parasite. When he left me because I was of no benefit anymore his sister said “he’s always been a mooch”. Well, plus he was a liar and assh*le, why I was with him for 14 years is part of my own personal torment.
(Report abusive comment)
shabbychic says:
skylar, I would just like to say that over the past couple of months I have marveled at the knowledge and insight you have acquired in such a short period of time. On your suggestion I bought the book Why Is It Always About You? I just got it a couple of days ago, have to read it.
The book The Betrayal Bond I am having a hard time with, I don’t know if you’ve read it, it’s like I just want the author to tell me how to STOP recreating my trauma (whatever that is) without me havingn to go through all the exercises and filliing out questions, and basically having to think. Too intense for me, or just too much trouble? I thought… instead of doing all this work on myself, I just won’t date or look for a relationshit again, I don’t trust myself or men. I feel like I have no direction because I don’t want to look back, I just want to go forward, but there is no wind and the boat is just sitting in the water, I guess I’ll have to row, but I’m too tired & defeated.
(Report abusive comment)
shabbychic says:
jeez, for me, that was a lot of writing! I don’t write a lot because I don’t seem to have the creative writing talent that most of you have, and I have never been good at analyzing myself or others, I’m not introspective, I try to keep busy, or have the TV on so I don’t have to think about myself or others, but reading everyone’s experiences here at LF has helped me more than I can say because when someone has an epiphany about why they did something or why they accepted bad behaviors I can see myself in their posts and I understand myself a little bit better and can try to work on some of the problems I now recognize in myself. Plus I’m learning not to ignore red flags, or in my case, red billboards!!!!
(Report abusive comment)
skylar says:
SC, thanks, that is nice of you to say. That book really started me off in my understanding, I can’t give it enough credit.
Obviously, I feel that I’m almost as damaged as the P, only in a slightly different way. (my mother didn’t kill all my kittens by throwing them into a bag and into the river).
So I’m floundering in life and the biggest breakthrough I’ve experienced in 43 years was this epiphany of the existance of narcissism. Something that affects you so profoundly is going to get your attention and that’s what is happening to me. I’m focused 24/7 on resolving this, not for the xP, as much as resolving it for my own healing.
I feel like I’m looking for the unification theory of everything. You know like the way physicists are always looking for smaller and smaller particles to explain all the different forces in the universe.
I’m sure I’ll never find enlightenment, like the buddha, but I’d like to find something that will have as much power over me as the abuse my parents inflicted when I was a child. The window for directing my emotional growth with love, closed at puberty, so now the only way in is through a logical belief system that will have an equal and opposing force. Platitudes aren’t doing it for me. Believe me, if they worked, I’d eat them up.
I have to tell you that I admire your fortitude and how hard you work to keep yourself afloat. I’m just a whiny self indulgent narcissist compared to you. I want it all and I want it now! So, what I’m trying to say is that you have more to offer than you might be aware of. If you could put into words, the strength that keeps you going each day, I’d buy the book.
(Report abusive comment)
heavenbound says:
Wow, I can’t believe how wired I have gotten.
I could not think straight, but OxDrover, that’s perfect.
My children know an awful lot about the Lord, about the Bible, and they like the information that comes from Him!
I really need to get off of this merry-go-round. Your exactly right about the Bible. I hope I can stay focused this time.
They are actually taught the Bible daily so I guess that’s why they are so on top of things were I seem to be the slow one!
Giving some of those in the Bible a name we use today (P/S/N) is enlightening in it’s self, it’s perfect. Thank You!
I guess it’s me I need to work on most, the boys seem to be thinking clearer than me. And now I see!
What is wrong with me, what is this dead brain spell called? Why can I see so clearly sometimes and then I can’t understand a thing?
Skylar, “inspecting fruit”!! The boys will see that very quickly so reminding them what the Lord told us about the fruits is really great. Over time, he has rotten fruit. And they know that so just telling or reminding them.
This is going to be easier than I had made it out to be !!
Thank you all so much for your help, your ideas … I just can’t thank you enough!
Shabbychic, I’m not good at creative writing either! I agree with Skylar though, you offer more than you might realize !
I love you all! love, hugs and prayers, heavenbound
(Report abusive comment)
skylar says:
In my case, my parents are very difficult to discern as N’s or S’s or P’s. They SEEM so nice most of the time. But all of their children are rotten fruit. We are all either N’s or N-supply. Even the cat I gave my mom has health problems. Her low thyroid wasn’t discovered until she was about to die and I took her to the vet. She is extremely obese and has no hair on her tail. I knew she was being damaged because she was locked into a room all day with nothing to do for years.
I could see my mom taking her “cathood” away from her the same way she took my childhood away from me. She treated the cat like an object rather than a sentient being.
So even the cat is rotten fruit.
(Report abusive comment)
heavenbound says:
Yeah, I get that, Skylar.
I have one in my life that is so hard to tell n,s, or p.
I found a test…there are alot of them, but I found one that was really thorough on the internet and I filled in the answers as I knew these people would answer, lies and all. The one that is hard to tell about came up as extremely narcisstic (sp?) extremely psycopathic (sp?), and extremely histrionic,
my little boys father came up extreme psycopath (i can’t seem to spell today) I thought it was wild how even with the lies they would tell on these questions that it could still tell. I took it for myself as well and I came up ‘anxiety’ something disorder or whatever.
(Report abusive comment)
OxDrover says:
The thing is guys, you don’t have to have a “legal” diagnosis to say “son and so has traits for X disorder” or X AND Y. It is not uncommon for anyone with a psychological disorder to have MORE THAN ONE thing. It is COMMON for Ps to also be ADHD, and/or BI-POLAR. So if they have ALL THREE they can really be a “case.”
The EXACT diagnosis (or plurals) does NOT matter. sum them up as TOXIC. Get the TOXIC people out of your life. No matter WHAT KIND of poison they are, it will kill you.
Does it matter if the snake that bit you is a rattlesnake or a copper head or a coral snake? NOPE, they are all poison! That is all we need to know.
(Report abusive comment)
heavenbound says:
Sorry, OxDrover, you are completely right. It doesn’t matter what they are. It only matters if they are toxic to us. I admit though I did get bit and I wanted to know some things about these people and what it’s all about, so I know what kind of anti-poison to use!
I’m not really out to figure them out once I understood what was so different about them I could then begin to let go of the idea that maybe it was me or maybe they will change.
However the truth is when someone is toxic to you that is the real point right there and they need to go.
Thanks Oxy for not letting me get of track! Love, hugs, and prayers, heavenbound
(Report abusive comment)
ErinBrock says:
Yes heaven……toxic is a much better description as it IS WHAT IT IS…..
It’s either a healthy relationship or an unhealthy one…..
CLear cut the forest and you will see it all clearly.
Doesn’t matter which bug is eating the trees…..if their dead their dead! Who cares!
Your doing great!
(Report abusive comment)
geminigirl says:
Jesus said,”if they dont accept you, do not cast your pearls before swine, wipe the dust off your sandals, and move on! let the dead bury their dead! In other words, why waste our precious gifts and energy on Ns and P s who dont love us, or appreciate us? They are already dead! So leave them to bury each other!Love, GemXX
(Report abusive comment)
OxDrover says:
Guys, I started a little list of what is TOXIC in my view, I am sure each of you will have more to add:
All liars
All cheaters
People who do criminal behavior
People who are unkind to others
People who are blame placers
People who are not fair
People who do not reciprocate kindness
Ungrateful people
Arrogant people
People who are condescending
People who present themselves as “holier than thou”
People who are dishonest
People who do not keep their word
People who will not sincerely apologize (and back it up with a behavior change)
People who percipitate “drama” as a way of life
People whose minds are “closed”
People who are intolerant of other people’s beliefs
The list is of course “endless,” but in short, people who make life miserable for others, uncaring people, people without compassion and appropriate pity.
Of course we have these people as next door neighbors, as the clerk at the local store, and attached to our lives at work, etc. and we can go NC with all of them unless we move to a desert island alone, but we don’t have to become deeply emotionally attached or let these TOXIC people become our emotional intimates. We can keep them at a comfortable social “arm’s length” and if possible, completely out of our lives.
Matt and I have talked before about weeding our gardens, thinning our rolodexes and cutting these people in our “circle of trust” out of our lives, out of our inner circle.
Of course there are times that these people will be related to or married to others we care about so we may have to “socialize” ‘with them from time to time, but we don’t have to let them INSIDE our heads and hearts.
A man my sons and I dearly love is married to a drama queen that we do not like at all, but because we want to visit with him, she must be included in our groups at times. We all know this, agree to do it on a limited basis because we adore him, but by “fixing our own heads” so that we realize we are allowing her into our PHYSICAL SPACE ONLY she doesn’t even irritate us as badly as if we were emotionally involved with her. We just realize what she IS, accept that, and keep her as far away EMOTIONALLY as we can.
She has been reguarly fired from her jobs (she is a nurse!) and she is applying for another one (the last one lasted 3 weeks before she got fired) and she called me today and asked me to give her a PHONY REFERENCE that I had worked with her (I never have) and that she was a good nruse etc (I would NEVER do that.)
Because I care about her husband I did not tell her to ‘go to hades” but instead, I simply told her, “I have been retired and not worked in 5 years, so it would be impossible for me to do that.” she asked again “well couldn’t you just say ….?” and I cut her off and said, “I have been retired for 5 years, and you have only been a nurse for 3+ so I could NOT have worked with you.”
My husband used to tell people I hd the ultimate TACT–”the ability to tell people to go to hell and make them HAPPY to be on their way.” I CAN do that, as I did with her, but the REASON in this case was I care about her husband so when I tell her to jump off a bridge I have to SMILE when I say it. LOL
(Report abusive comment)
shabbychic says:
I’d like to add…
People who borrow money.
(Report abusive comment)
OxDrover says:
Dear Chic,
Yes, that is a good one. I have borrowed money in emergencies in the past, but I always paid it back.
On eof the things I notice about people borrowing money or oweing money is….is it for a “toy” or a “need.” AND do they buy more toys while not repaying the loan to you or meeting their own NEEDS? Or do they borrow a small amount and not pay it back?
If a person manages their money well and an emergency comes up that catches them in a tight, I would be more prone to loan them money than to someone who “blows” all their money on toys and then needs a new car and doesn’t have the money to provide for this need.
When my kids were living at home in highschool and college, their working money went 1/3 to me for room and board, and one third to them for expenses and 1/3 into savings for emergencies like car repairs or medical bills, etc. My “good sons” both are thrifty and do not buy “toys” when they can’t afford to fix their cars. They are both religious about paying their bills and meeting their own expenses.
Yesterday I spent $180 getting my little cat spayed and vetted because she had to come live in the house because my son C’s psychopathic cats were persecuting her outside, and my son C plopped down half that since “it was my cats that made it necessary.” I didn’t expect that, but took it and said “thank you” because his cats WERE responsible for my expense.
People who are responsible pay their own ways to the best of their abilities. they contribute their share.
When son C moved home, he did not work for several months with my agreement because I thought he needed some time off to “reflect on his navel lint” and to have a low stress environment. He “paid” his share around here by working to help his brother and me catch up on some work on the farm. Now that he is employed again, he contributes both financially (1/3 of his take home pay) and does a reduced but significant amount of work around here to help maintain the “family benefit”—Because we work together as a family, we have more comfortable living conditions, reduced living costs, and a better life style than we would have if we didn’t share resources, talents, support and time. I am extremely blessed to have my sons as a support network and vice versa. Not many family units work together as well as ours does. Each of us has our own space and separate activities, but we also share a pool of friends, associates, interests, ,and activities. It benefits us all under the circumstances in which we find ourselves. Unfortunately for her, my egg donor has opted out of this support group because she has chosen to not be cooperative and honest and to contribute courtesy, honesty, understanding and compassion. She seems to think that if she tries to ‘buy” our “love” with money that will allow her a pass on the other things. I am proud to say that neither of my good sons buys this, only the P does.
(Report abusive comment)
shabbychic says:
I think this is toxic:
Friends who never call, even though you have been trying to keep the friendship alive.
(Report abusive comment)
OxDrover says:
Dear Chic,
Yes, or toxic people who keep inviting themselves and don’t “get it” that you never invite them.
People who don’t call may not be so much actively “toxic” as just not being concerned. Unfortunately, many times the Ps pollute our pond of “friendships” and people go away because of many reasons, or sometimes people just get tired of our “one song” of distress because they cant relate.
People move on away from “friendships” or acquaintences for many reasons, distance, time, lack of shared or common interests, etc. I have found I am better off with one or two people I stay close to than “many” “friends.”
Someone wise once said “the man who has many friends, has none.” I think that is true. Having a FEW or even 1 or two INTIMATE friends (vs. many people with shallow relationships) are better off and have a more satisfying friendship. I made that decision many years ago to spend more time with those I truly am friends with and less time with the acquaintences in my life. My life was “too busy” spending time with people who were simply “acquaintences” that I didn’t have time for my close friends. I have friends of >30 years and I nurture those few close friendships.
There are also acquaintences I know tha tI enjoy spending some time with but over all, my int6imate friends are very few. Having ANY intimate friends takes a lot of work, shared interests and shared moral compasses.
Think about the “most popular girl” (or guy) in your high school. How many of those “friends” does that man or woman maintain close frienships with today?
I think of the young mothers I was friends with when my kids were little and we were good friends, but I have moved states several times since then and we have lost contact through the years. That is just how things work.
If you lack friends, get out and meet new people to actively become friends with, people who share your interestss, and who share your moral compass and life styles. Start slowly and cautiously when you meet newe people to see that they really are what they seem to be. Volunteer work, churches, activity clubs and other places are good places to start.
Or go take an adult education class on something that you would liek to learn. There are some great classes available not too far from me, from pottery to a second language that cost little or nothing. Doing these positive things for yourself will help fill your time, raise your spirits and hellp you find and make new friends.
(Report abusive comment)
skylar says:
You know whats great about LF? The people I’m friends with here, I know that I would never have met or gotten to know in the real world. Because we are all such different ages and personalities, we probably would never have gravitated to each other and that would have been such a loss for me.
I wish we could all meet and hang out together, then finally I could sit in a room with someone and not wonder if they are a P! lol.
(Report abusive comment)
henry says:
Shabby – Can I borrow 20 bucks? Dont remember who told the frog joke but thanx _ I have been making people laugh all day..lmaorotf I am out of here for a few days and nights – hugz to all…henry
(Report abusive comment)
shabbychic says:
henry, LMAO!! Have a nice time!!
(Report abusive comment)
JaneSmith says:
Shabbychic,
You know, I’ve read many of your posts on LF as I read many from other members also. Keeps me up to date on y’alls healing progress. Furthermore, my affinity with the compassionate, loving and caring people on here is a positive addiction, one in which I won’t surrender!…haha.
Saying that, I think you’re much more introspective than you give yourself credit for. First, you wanted answers to the disturbing, yet justified, questions wandering through your head. Hence, finding the LF website.
Only persons who seek powerful knowledge, insight, education would even wish to rip aside the black veil that obscures reality, profound universal truth. You did that by being amonst kindred and highly intelligent, wise members.
It takes a formidable analytical, logical, sensible mind to weed through countless deceptive websites out there, that are misleading and downright fallacious! You did that by venturing into LF space.
It also takes some thought and preparation in creating posts and responses to other folks on here. You do that daily.
So, in conclusion, let’s focus on the wonderful qualities you possess (and they are many) instead of those imagined “flaws” you think exist.
You’re an awesome woman, educating yourself and arming yourself with fundamental self preservation skills to protect you from future predation.
And also, gaining priceless friends while traveling your own personal journey.
xxoooxxx…
Peace, Love and Joy
(Report abusive comment)
shabbychic says:
JaneSmith, thank you for pointing out some of my good points! I guess I tend to dwell on some negative aspects of myself. I have gained a priceless education and many friends here, you are right!!! I agree, it’s not easy to “rip aside the black veil that obscures realty”, that part is tough, so I tell others to be strong — and then turn into a weenie myself! I’m learning / working on it!! Thank you from my heart.
(Report abusive comment)
ErinBrock says:
Hens….gonna miss our nights together baby!
Have a good time…wherever your off to and……
Remain true to yourself!
XXOO
EB
(Report abusive comment)
OxDrover says:
Dear Janie,
Welcome back to our addiction, as you can see I am a “worse addict” than you! LOL
Your insight and wonderful wisdom and advice is sorely missed when you are not here posting! BOINK!!!! Your advice to Chic is very good!
I tend to be the same way, to see the glass half empty rather than half full, my husband would say “THE GLASS IS THE WRONG SIZE!” LOL
It takes more than one point of view to see the entire picture and your perspectives are always very helpful! MORE POSTS! Don’t make me get the skilelt out again and come hunting you! (((hugs))))
(Report abusive comment)
ErinBrock says:
Chic: I’m not going to call you Shabby any more…I don’t like that! Ya know!
Okay…..it’s natural to doubt ourselves, especially when we have valid questions about the ‘how’ we landed up ‘here’.
But….Jane is spot on! You must (we) focus on our strengths….it’s too easy to see all the ‘flaws’ or negatives that have been forced on us.
We are valued, beautiful human beings with a lot to offer the world…….and here we are offering it…..
SO put a feather in your cap girl and tickle yourself with it whenever you need!!!!!
XXOO
EB
(Report abusive comment)
ErinBrock says:
JaneSmith:
Good to see you around….Hope your doing well and life is leading you in great places!!!
Great post!
XXOO
(Report abusive comment)
JaneSmith says:
Awww…see? Proof in the pudding of how truly remarkable, supremely caring and loving you bunch of awesome folks are!
Bravo to and for all of you for simply existing! You all bring smiles and pure joy to my heart, mind and spirit!
The amount of love, support and genuine comfort being generating on this lil website could light up the planet in a blaze of glory, I tell you!…haha.
(Report abusive comment)
Isabell says:
I’ve searched the WWW for nearly 8 or 9 years, trying to understand so many perplexities. Three years ago, I was given a name. Actually the name of a movie, “Gaslight” by the therapist that had treated my ex for three years. He worded his recommendation this way, “Because I was [his] therpist, I am bound by ethics to not disclose, in diagnostic terms, what you are dealing with. However, because you have a propencity toward research, I strongly recommend you see the 1947 moive, ‘Gaslight.’ If you cannot find this moive, then rent ‘Flight Plan’ with Jody Foster.” To this he added, “You will NEED to look up the movie ‘Gaslight’ on the internet, and SEE what YOU WILL FIND, there.”
When he handed me the notes from our session, he wrote in all caps “GASLIGHT” and INTERNET. The first thing I did, when I got home was type in “Gaslight.” While this did bring up the movie… it also brought up Narcissitic Personality Disorder. And, this was the beginning of clarity. Then, in 2006, no matter how I looked up Narcissim, there was only one informative site, and that was written by a self professed Narcissist – Malignant Self Love. Informative? Yes, to a point. What it didn’t do for me was relate to what I was experiencing. So I continued to search, and found NOTHING.
It wasn’t until this past September/October that I was told after 4.5 years of (as EB puts it, “…leading to court”) that the court will not allow any more OTS by my ex. The next hearing would be a trial. I HAD to make sure my new lawyer understood EVERYTHING, and I finally understood that I had to make sure his legal guns were loaded with the facts that I had to produce. So, I got busy. When I hit a wall, purplexed… I turned to my computer, and typed in… “How to expose a Narcissist in court.” I was immediately transported to a world that spoke a language I understood readily. A world where “my reality” was paralleled. A world that expressed… I believe you.
For the first few weeks, all I could do was read, and cry. I cried for other’s, because I know exactly what they are going through. I cried because others wrote exactly what I’m going through, without me ever posting a single word.
I knew, finally, that I was no longer in the Land of Oz. As I write that I’m no longer in the Land of Oz, I am immediately reminded of my ex… pretending to be one of the munchkins. A little dance he would do… that endeared me to him. Hmmm…
His world IS the Land of Oz. Illusions, trickery, fear, and intimidation, dressed in costume to delight the senses, and tickle the immagination with plausabilities. He FASCINATED me. He possessed a brilliance beyond comprehension. I wanted to “study” him. I was intoxicated with a desire to fix him. I called it something else, but here…I can be honest. He was brilliantly broken. And, I am the skillful healer (or so I once thought). You see, I can observe without judgement. What I couldn’t do, was absorb the atomic blast of his defensive indifference. I had no idea my intent interest in what made him tick would set off Armmogedon – but, it did. And, I was not prepared for it.
Like a really bad hang-over, I stumbled face down in the vomit of too much OZ, and reached out for someone, ANYone to save me. So many righteous along the way. Getting their hands dirty was, well…better to cross the road. And, surprisingly.. I get it. But, at the same time, I don’t get it, because that’s not me. I don’t pass by a broken life, and pretend I don’t see. I was born defective this way, I suppose.
But.. they, the sociopaths, the pathologicals, the narcissists all use their Brilliant light, and their broken life as a mating call to the likes of those like me…don’t they?
I’m rambling here, I know. I know it’s late. It’s just that this is the portal to sanity. A reminder that I’m not alone in my experiences. I didn’t imagine what happened. And, no matter how benovolent my heart and intentions might have been, I couldn’t have stopped the disaster…I was ill-equipped through no fault of my own; other then I am wired with too much compassion, and a belief that love hopes all things.
Goodnight, kindred spirits… there are no words to discribe the wonder and awe of finally finding you.
Sweet dreams…
(Report abusive comment)
skylar says:
Isabelle:
“But.. they, the sociopaths, the pathologicals, the narcissists all use their Brilliant light, and their broken life as a mating call to the likes of those like me…don’t they?”
Wow Isabelle you described lucifer. The imagery in your post really struck me. I’ll be saving that one.
I too am wired with too much compassion for the broken. It shouldnt’ be wrong. It should be right to have compassion but it doesn’t work out that way because they are parasites armed with the perfect lure aimed at the perfect victim.
Even that wouldn’t be so bad – cats are parasites too, but the P’s want to feed on you, to death. They want to grow bigger than you, suck you dry and discard you. Then they move on another host.
(Report abusive comment)
JaneSmith says:
Oxy-Pooh-Bodacious!
You are such a doll, you know that? If I ever have the distinct pleasure of meeting you in person, I would probably hug the smithereens out of you!
You would say…”I…can’t…breathe…Kim(real name)”…haha!
Well, I’m kinda fierce with my affections sometimes. Just the way I roll, lovely lady!
And, although I read LF regularly, I don’t wish to interfere with the flow of thoughts, the purging of awful experiences with predators by the members, and the subsequent breakthroughs that truly allow healing to begin.
I may have something to offer, but only sincere praise directed to you so superb human beings. I mean, really, we all know how utterly heartbreaking it is to be cruelly criticized, demeaned and disregarded. That’s where I like to inject some genuine and concerned affirmation.
Instead of tearing folks down, (which I’ve never been able to do, thank you Jesus), I consider it my purpose to deliver genuine, truthful, honest praise towards people who don’t see themselves the way I see them: blindingly beautiful.
It feeds my own soul to spread smiles and joy however and whenever I can. It feels good, dagnabit!…haha.
As far as cultivating any type of realtionship with the opposite sex, I would say that I’m simply not the least bit interested. I’m self-sufficient in my intellect and in my day to day living. I don’t feel as if I am missing a damn thing by being single and celibate. In fact, I feel whole and complete. Pursuing ideas and thoughts, always seeking universal truth with my eyes clear, wide and receptive.
Being with a man right now at this stage in my life would be…distracting. More focused on my deepening relationship with the Lord and in spiritual growth. Does that make sense? Or do I seem sort of self-involved? Well, it is what it is.
I’m just living and celebrating my life and all life without hurting one precious soul.
Peace, Love and Joy!!
(Report abusive comment)
OxDrover says:
Dear Janie,
No, it idoes not seem self absorbed, I think we have put so much of ourselves into others needs that we have neglected our own over the years so takign care of US now is OKEY-DOKEY. I’m like you, not needy where a relationship with a man is concerned, they take work and effort and energy and I am more focused on taking care of me.
I had a couple of dates the other month, and it was sort of cool to be ASKED out. But later he called and I saw a PINK FLAG and you know, I just “washed that man right out’ta my hair…and sent him on his way” without a backward glance or even a single regret! I donl’t need a man who adds stress to my life….so until “prince charming rides to my house on his white horse with his wagon filled with gold dubloons I think I will just hang with the best company of all—me and my (adult) kids and a few great friends. What more could life offer?
I think your posts are awesome Janie, and sometimes I do boink people over the head, but if you were here more, you could offer them some ice packs and love and between the two of us, we would have soft-and-tender-tough love! LOL
You are just so special and I am so selfish and miss your posts so much. have you heard from Bev? How is she doing? I miss her too!
(Report abusive comment)
JaneSmith says:
Oxy,
No, haven’t heard from Bev. Really wish she would check in here sometime, as well as others that have left a lasting and positive impression upon me.
Do you hear(read?) that people?! We desire updates, confirmation that your lives are as awesome as you absolutely deserve!
And, sweetie, I’m no more special than all of you folks. We are all unique and wonderful people. That’s what sets us apart from from the evil aberrations that walk amongst us.
Oh, I see them, I do. If I sense even the slightest bit of revulsion in my mind, body I immediately give the cold shoulder and distance myself. It’s become standard practice for me to elicit my distaste, disgust by indifference. Simply cut them off at the pass before my ire can be stoked into righteous rage.
Of course, I’m always on the lookout for the vulnerable being targeted. No problem interceding in those situations. I have no fear of predators as there’s no way I’ll ever be intimate with another one. Shudder…grosses me out just contemplating such a disquieting scenario.
The random ones instinctively realize (in their primitive way) that even though I’m usually sunny, friendly that at my very core, I’m a fighter. I won’t go out like a punk, no sirree bob! I will fight tooth and nail to defend, protect myself from any person who wishes me harm.
That’s the reality of our world. Evil exists and there’s no denying it’s insidiousness.
On a lighter note, I project kindness, confidence, and selective compassion in general so I tend to interact with good, decent folks. The Laws of Attraction are working in my life quite abundantly, thank you very much!…haha.
Wow, Oxy, you got my lil brain functioning at hyperspeed. How do you do your magic, Wizard Oxy?
Peace out
(Report abusive comment)
OxDrover says:
Dear janie,
“magic?” Oh, no, it is simply this very special cast iron skillet I have….LOL ROTFLMAO in fact, a bunch of folks the other night were at a cyber “sleep over” late at night and they redesigned it in silicone and put batteries in it! Can’t remember who holds the patent on the new improved version of the skillet, but it was a hoot! of course henry had to goet his 2 cents worth in, and they were all being naughty! I have been going to bed earlier (and getting up earlier) so didn;’t get in on this discussion real time, but woke up and ROTFLMAO the next morning.
We’ve been loading up a ton of stuff for the flea market tomorrow morning so we leave LEAVE at 5 a.m. in the morning to try to peddle some of this crap on someone else who will find it a treasure! LOL So will be leaving teh blogs early and hitting the hay quite early. (I hope)
We have a 16 ft x 6 ft trailer loaded down, and 5 ft high with boxes, and the back seat of the extended big diesel truck loaded as well. Wish me luck at the flea market. I wil lhave at least another load this size even if we sell everything we are taking (not likely) so guess I wlll be in the “junk business” for a while until my inventory is down considerably. I’m amazed at all the ROOM I have now in the barn, aircraft hanger and house! Son D and I have been working on sorting, organizing and getting rid of stuff for 5 years since hubby died (he was DELUSIONAL that he was organized, otherwise a perfect man!) ha ha But I am OCD about organization so I’m finally IN CHARGE–LOL and can do it MY way! For now SEL SELL SELLLLLL!
While I am gone tomorrow you might want to stay around and see if you can keep Erin B in line! LOL ((((Hugs)))))
(Report abusive comment)
JaneSmith says:
Oxy,
Good luck at the Flea market. I do so acknowledge that one person’s junk is another person’s treasure. I have bought oodles of good stuff at the thrift stores in my town. And at reasonable prices! Yay!
And Erin B is a super strong, capable gal. I would probably indulge her in all her fun seeking…heehee.
(Report abusive comment)
OxDrover says:
Dear Janie,
Well we are loaded and I have a (probably) broken end didgit on my right pinkie and a big bruise on my chin that looks like someone clocked me from a stupid fall. I’m working on breaking every bone in my body! Sheesh! I never have been a deer foot, but I ithink I am getting worse as the years go by, at least I didn’t end up in the ER this time or a cast! LOL
The guys are so tired and me too from loading the trailer (really loaded!) , will be up at 4 to leave here by 5 and be there by daylight! May wind up with some good produce though, as they sell everything in the world at this place and who knows, I may find some TREASURES that someone else is selling! LOL (the boys will restrain me!) LOL nite nite guys!
(Report abusive comment)