What All Sociopaths Have In Common
PDF As we think about sociopaths, let’s remember that they can make diverse presentations, which can make it hard to know if (and when) you’re dealing with one.
Although sociopathy is a personality disorder, it’s complicated by the fact that sociopaths have widely diverse personalities.
There are smart sociopaths and dumb sociopaths; gregarious sociopaths and more withdrawn sociopaths; engaging sociopaths and paranoid sociopaths; calculating sociopaths and more impulsive sociopaths; socially skilled, and socially unskilled sociopaths.
There are charismatic sociopaths and sociopaths with dull personalities. There are sociopaths who may leave you feeling remarkably comfortable, and sociopaths who may leave you feeling extremely creeped-out.
Some sociopaths are physically violent personalities, while others are no more prone to violence than you or I.
Given this diversity among them, what, then, do sociopaths have in common?
I take a stab, below, at answering this question, which itself isn’t so cut and dried. But what follow are some qualities that I believe all sociopaths have in common.
All sociopaths are emotionally shallow.
While sociopaths don’t have a patent on emotional shallowness (nonsociopaths can be emotionally shallow), they do have this terrain thoroughly covered. All sociopaths, without exception, are emotionally shallow.
It’s not that sociopaths don’t have and feel emotions. They are human beings, inclined as they are to transgress others. They want things. They feel their discomforts, pleasures, cravings.
But what sociopaths lack, fundamentally, is emotional interest in others. They may be interested in what others have [for them]; that is, what others have [for them] may evoke, and even stimulate, their emotions. However, they are not interested, genuinely, in who others are.
The sociopath, for instance, may recognize, and even pay very close attention, to your mood. But his interest in your mood will hinge on how your mood affects his agenda.
He is like the amoral child who, watching his mother and shrewdly detecting her vigilant energy, decides it’s not a good time to lift the five-dollar bill off the kitchen counter. He has read her carefully, and perhaps accurately. But his interest in her state of mind, and emotions, is limited to the advancement of his agenda.
All sociopaths are disloyal individuals.
I see this as a truism about sociopaths. Sociopaths may seem and even act loyal, but only so long as they calculate that the cost of their loyalty hasn’t yet exceeded its benefit [to them].
As soon as the sociopath discerns that the cost of his loyalty exceeds the advantage, he betrays those to whom he’d apparently been “loyal.”
His self-interest, in other words, is paramount, and supercedes his capacity for self-sacrifice.
All sociopaths are habitual transgressors (without meaningful remorse) of others’ boundaries.
Whether calculating or more impulse-driven, sociopaths are habitual boundary violators, without genuine remorse for their hurtful effect on others. Some (not all) sociopaths “get off” on their exploitation—meaning that, for them, the process of exploiting is the motive force that drives their exploitation.
Sociopaths may be childishly fascinated by the exercising of their power to “push the envelope,” to “pull off” capers and dodge accountability.
Their lack of remorse—lack, indeed, of any form of genuine accountability—is one of the perplexing aspects of this personality disorder. And there’s probaby not a single explanation for this.
All sociopaths grossly lack compassion.
A lack of empathy is commonly ascribed to sociopaths, but I sometimes wonder if the sociopath’s lack of compassion isn’t a more germane descriptor.
Part of the problem with empathy is that people view it differently—arguably, there are different “types” of empathy that elude a single, unifying definition.
You will sometimes hear people say about sociopaths that, rather than lacking empathy, they actually use their empathy exploitively. I don’t see it that way. I view a mindset of empathy as the antithesis of the exploitive mindset—thus, someone feeling empathic (by my definition of empathy) could not use his empathy to exploit. That would be logically impossible.
But I think we escape this definitional confusion altogether when we consider sociopaths and the issue of compassion. In this regard, I assert that all sociopaths lack genuine compassion for others.
I’m suggesting that, even more than his empathic deficiency, the sociopath’s gross lack of compassion enables his infamous abuse of others’ dignity and space.
(See an upcoming post, Sociopathy: A Disorder of Compassion, for an elaboration of this idea.)
All sociopaths lack appropriate shame.
Sociopaths’ deficient levels of shame support their exploitive tendencies. Shame gives us pause, and sociopaths do very little “pausing.” Most of us contemplate the factor of shame, or prospective shame, in the decisions we make.
Our automatic, often unconscious review of how shameful we’re likely to feel following a chosen action allows us to think twice before executing it. It gives us room to cancel a plan whose execution we deem, on reflection and in anticipation, risks reigning shame down upon us.
Sociopaths lack shame to fear. Lacking shame to fear disinhibits them from pursuing destructive ideas that the rest of us, more often than not, will “pass” at.
Sociopaths are audacious personalties.
As I’ve indicated in several LoveFraud pieces, there is something audacious about the sociopath. He is prone to behaviors that leave the rest of us, whether as victims or witnesses, shaking one’s head. His levels of gall, hubrus are astonishing.
Where the nonsociopath, as just discussed, will find opportunities to scrap a bad plan, the sociopath is more likely to eschew prudent consideration (and reconsideration) and pursue the flawed plan, anyway.
His audacity—see my LoveFraud piece, The Audacity Of The Sociopath—is a curious and troubling aspect of his personality.
Sociopaths are liars and deceivers.
Lying and deceiving are close cousins, and sociopaths routinely do both. But this doesn’t make them necessary good at either (although they may be). A sociopath may assert, as if he really believes it, that he broke the world record in the mile, but this doesn’t make it a good lie.
The premise is preposterous; and so what’s most striking about the lie is its audacity, not its believability.
Sociopaths often, for instance, defend untenable positions from, it seems, sheer contempt for their audience. Consider this interaction:
Wife: I saw you with your secretary at Chile’s, today, at 12:15. You were kissing.
Sociopath: What are you talking about? I didn’t leave the office all day.
Wife: I saw you. Don’t bullshit me.
Sociopath: Yeah right. Ask Allen…we were in a meeting at 12:15. Go ahead. Why don’t you fucking call him and ask him?
Wife: I knew you’d say that. I already called the office. Allen’s in San Diego, and you know that.
Sociopath: You’re fucking crazy. You know what, stop fucking stalking me! That’s your problem. Maybe if you’d stop fucking stalking me you’d actually find something valid to accuse me of!
Wife: Don’t change the subject. You’re lying.
Sociopath: No…this is the subject. You’ve got a fucking stalking problem. So let’s not change that subject. You know what, honey? One of these days your fucking stalking’s gonna really drive me into someone else’s arms.
Wife: You were kissing her, John.
Sociopath: You know what? Fuck you. How ’bout that? Fuck you.
Rife with sociopathic machinations, this interaction starts with the assertion and insistence of a preposterous lie, then maneuvers quickly into deflection, gaslighting and other abusive strategies.
In upcoming posts, I’ll extend the list of traits that all sociopaths, I believe, share in common.
(My use of “he” in this article was for purposes of convenience, not to suggest that females aren’t capable of expressing the attitudes and behaviors discussed.)
(This article is copyrighted © 2009 by Steve Becker, LCSW)
written by Steve Becker, LCSW • Permalink •
style1 says:
Great posts… yes, he wanted me to see him, imagine him in how he contrives and projections himself. He is a word master, uses foreign words and likes to use large words that most don’t use in usual talking. He likes to show how ‘intelligent’ that he is and he is such a boor. He will be talking then say a French word in French. IHis behavior is so affected that it is pathetic. He tries so hard to appear high class that he is low-class. And no boundaries. He butted into my life referring to my new house as ‘our’ house in the first three weeks that we began dating. He stated what it yours is mine and what is mine is yours. The difference being all he had is debt, no real assets. He was claiming what is mine as his. I felt it. I didn’t buy it. He gives the illusion of class, of money of spirituality or integrity and he is the exact opposite. I never was totally hooked but I stayed long enough to let him into my life. I bought part of his contrived illusions.
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style1 says:
He sits in his head and observes. He says just enough.. but never reveals himself totally like to my father. I watched him with successful men and he plays the no information game well. His father was married five times and his mother three .. he had no real stability in his life.. My parents were married for 55 years and while not perfect, I had a nice family invironment.. at least, it was stable and my father does what he says. Which might be one of my issues with men. My father started with nothing, worked hard and became very successful. So,I tend to believe men when they say that this is what that they will do.. but they don’t. They are conning. My father was real.
I am not buying into what will be. And I knew not to.. but this man was convincing and I think that his spiritual angle, I am so good, is what caught me off guard. And yes, he could cry at the drop of a hat. In fact, in the beginning of our relationship, he cried alot. He told me how his son died of a brain tumor. His past made me feel sorry for him. He has more trama in his life than I have ever heard of. Two children with brain tumors. That is almost unheard of. Several of my friends made the comment that he could bring in negative energies because he is always meditating and his eyes roll back into his head.. It is disgusting. It looks evil. I don’t know. Just something is really off about him and he tried to overtake my beliefs, my life, my property. He asked me to give him my bank account number and routing number so that he could deposit money in my account. When I spent money and he reimbursed me. I said NO! Another friend told me that he wanted my life. I prayed to God to protect me and to reveal things to me. I layed in MY BED, to a man I was engaged to praying for God to protect me.. how CRAZY is that and why did I allow this thing into my life? That is why I am on here reading to understand WHY???
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Steve Becker, LCSW says:
STARLIGHT, i am so incredibly glad my posts are helpful to you, and thank you for the incredibly generous expression of your appreciation.
Awesome that you’re so committed to opposing the manipulative brainwashing…keep taking care of yourself, Starlight, using every useful resource you can find to support your commitment to your emotional safety and integrity.
And again, your appreciative words are music to my ears!
Steve Becker
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candyharlau says:
i shuttered when i read “The sociopath, for instance, may recognize, and even pay very close attention, to your mood.”
I remember him saying that he watched me carefully…he could read me… because ‘he is a psych nurse’ (in his own mind…he’s an LPN)
The ‘interaction’ conversation is classic. How they turn the table. All of a sudden you’re the problem. He could be screwing someone right in front of me, and he would deny it. You could have pics, and he still would deny.
I can hear him talk to people now about me…i stalked him, i was crazy, he had to pay for everything, he never committed domestic violence, etc, etc. The b.s. goes on and on.
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style1 says:
Also.. the condesending way that he lectured and spoke to me at times. Like I was so beneath his intellect. His tone of voice felt almost evil at those times.. and I recall in the beginning of the relationship asking him what one of his wife’s complaints were about him.. and he said his voice tone.. at that time, I couldn’t see it but Wow.. I saw it.. What she saw what I saw were the same then he denied that he ever told me that about his ex when I brought it up. Selective memory.. this man is a word master and like to play with minds.. he is in sales and he has admitted to me that the company that he works for rips clients off. It is a consulting firm and it is under investigation.
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candyharlau says:
four months to the day, NC.
———————
Ask a P a question………..i will never forget these two responses from my xP!
i come home, wake him up for work, and ask him how his afternoon was…he had one or the other response:
1) ‘questions, questions, you know i don’t like questions,’ and
2) ‘i do the same thing every day. why do you have to ask the same question every day…’
Gotta add the tone of the voice, too.
It worked. I stopped talking, i stopped asking questions. i stopped caring..i even dreaded waking up the monster. WHY DIDN”T I KICK HIM OUT THEN!?!?!?>!#!
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candyharlau says:
well, well…i write this blog at 12:49, and the xP tries to make contact…sends me an email at 1:36………
creepy
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Petra60 says:
I had a real epiphany this weekend. Since I am not interested in “violent” movies – I never watched “No country for Old Men”…but, there is was – on some channel – late at night – and it changed the way I thought of my sociopathic ex-husband and son. I finally “got it”. (After 35 years, tons of books, long therapy sessions, and neverending hope – I got it.)
The main character was a man without conscience, compassion, remorse. He didn’t care about others, didn’t care about the money, didn’t even care about his own welfare. On some level – he realized that other human beings valued their life – no matter how dismal, greedy or loving – something that he found midly entertaining. This evil person was devoid of all human emotion.
What was so obvious in this movie is that this man was never going to change. He wasn’t going to wake up one day and honor life, himself or the law.
He just didn’t care.
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OxDrover says:
Dear Petra,
You know, that is a pretty profound philosophy in your above post.
They are NOT ever going to change. I am sorry that you also have a P-offspring, that is a painful thing to have for a caring person. Accepting it is painful, but we can eventually ‘get there” once we grasp the concepts of your philosophy. It was difficult for me, and I assume it is also difficult for the parents of other psychopaths (who are NOT themselves also psychopaths).
I also got around to watching “No country for old men” and it was an interesting movie to me. there are others that also depict psychopaths well—and chillingly.
I’m glad you are here Petra, it is a healing place. God bless.
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skylar says:
Petra, congrats on you epiphany. I’ve had a few since discovering the P’s and like you, fictional literature and character portrayals in movies have been a big part of understanding. It helps the subconscience put a human face to what would otherwise be just a list of P-traits.
I’ll put that movie on my list.
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justabouthealed says:
The P I was involved with is one that is almost idolized in our culture… the Thomas Crown character. Thomas Crown (in the second version) is truly a P….in that he withhold information, to purposefully make his “girlfriend” suffer, even at the end watches her cry before revealing his presence (at which she is playfully angry but SO happy…ugh!) And before the end, he knows she is suspecting an affair, but again he withholds information to sort of test her while hiding behind loyalty. PLUS he his whole criminal act is just for the thrill of pulling one over on people. He is ALL about power for the sake of power, (and sex) and yet the audience adores his accomplishments, his daring exploits, his wealth, even his coldness…and overlooks the tiny fact that he is a common thief, cold, arrogant, autocratic, and presenting a false front. He is meant to be a likable character, otherwise the movie doesn’t “work”, but I think for many of us on LF, we would find him repulsive. I hope so!
In real life, after she runs off with him, he will devalue her and discard her, especially as she becomes loving and therefore “boring” as the cat and mouse game is over. The power plays are over, and her love will feel like demands and exploitation to him. And he will be gone and she will be left wondering what happened to her. Emotional rape! But the movie ends before all that.
And like Thomas Crown appears to think, I think some of these types of “white collar P’s” actually THINK they are in love, and then ooopsss…..no, turns out real intimacy feels like they are being controlled and they can’t have that!
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style1 says:
Yes. It is an emotional rape.. He told me that I was going to love him.. he did everything a woman could want to have done or to hear in the beginning.. He was like Mr. Perfect. He was suffocating and even in the beginning I was suspecious. His talk about his ‘big deals’ that we would move to Jamacia … on and on.. he worked hard and seemed so intense to be a success and to take care of me.. yeah.. while in reality I took care of myself.. He saw a vision where he would buy me a Jag.. Well..I bought my own Jag. He drove his mother’s toyota.. he was such a facade of success and abundance.. I asked him later why not just be who you are and where you are..? Just be a man? But then I realized that would make his existance to normal.. he needed to think that he was some spiritual guru and on the brink of being some great financial success.. so that he could be the hero of everyone…. It got so tiring listening to him yak and yak and yak… and lecture.. as credit card applications came with a decline. He had bad credit and lived paycheck to paycheck.. and all he talked about is one of his big deals making.. while I cooked him gourmet meals and in lived in a bed that I paid for. WHat a fool I was… but now it’s behind me… YEAH!!!!!
All he is and was is charm… oh, he works hard and does the best that he can.. but his Spin and illusions and dreams are how he stays able to survive and he sucks the woman into his delusions with him.. He couldn’ support me.. he had no business being with a woman like me.. he was all pretend.. all con .. all delusions….
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style1 says:
and still occasionally it fleetingly pops into my mind that he will make a deal and come get me.. then I will know that he loves me for me and not what I can give him…LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
THEY ARE NEVER GOING TO CHANGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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ErinBrock says:
GOOD NEWS GOOD NEWS!!!!!
I just got a notice from the courts!!!!
The ruling is FINAL!
After the Sociopath ordeal was final…..I came into contact with Sociopath #2 through business……
HE SUED ME! I wrote about it last week……..
Well the summary judgement was finalized this week, and I just got a notice from the courts……
I knew I had followed the law, got advice and went accordingly.
Soc#2 lied and lied in court, was chastised by the judge, acted irrationally, dodged questions yadayada….
I GOT HIM BY THE BALLS…..and he don’t like it!
Ha farker!!!! I got something IMPORTANT he wants……and I ain’t gonna give it up! OR……PAY ME!
He owes me over 10K……unpaid debt….reality says I won’t ever see my money…..so…….this is a consolation!
AND THE JUDGE THOUGHT SO TOO!
I won’t be intimidated, I won’t be bullied…….what he doesn’t realize is I have walked this path prior to him….JUST PRIOR to him…..so I am primed and ripe for battle with a SOCIOPATH!!!!
I was able to serve him a suit during our hearing last week…..this latest, pretty much assures that he won’t show up, I will receive a judgement and turn it over to collections……but HA…..I can now alert ALL the other folks of his whereabouts that he owes money too and child support, warrants and non paid court fines…….
I can alert the immigration folks since his wife is not legal…..and to apply for citizenship you can’t have any outstanding legal issues or write bad checks…….this may be a bummer……
Ohhhhh, how it would have been much easier for him to pay me as our contract stated!!!!
I AM HIS WORST NIGHTMARE!
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skylar says:
WHOOOOHHOOOOOO ERIN!!
congrats on your VICTORY!
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Stargazer says:
EB, justice is so sweet, isn’t it? Congratulations!!!! Some of these sociopaths are so focused on playing games, they can’t see the forest for the trees. Mine was like that, too. He wanted to play games with me. But he messed with the wrong person. He ended up getting charged with fraud and adultery and found guilty. Thanks to me. LOL
TOWANDA, sister!
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ErinBrock says:
It is just awesome!
It’s like being able to put my SOHK university degree to use! (School of hard knocks)
It’s freeing and validating and confirming……
We just gotta remember what we learned and knock em out with it!
Your so right….they are focused on the games….not the prize…..they are so convinced from their day to day interactions that they are soooooo convincing and good at the play……I love laying under that rock and striking hard, only when I know I will be successful!!!
Nothing like watching a sociopath be deflated……
Its like watching an 85 lb woman beat the shit out of a 6’5 350lb wrestler that tried to rape her!
THATS RIGHT>>>>THEY MESS WITH THE WRONG WOMEN!!!
SURVIVORS UNITE!!!
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amber says:
CONGRATS EB!!! That’s amazing!! I too feel like my ex S messed with the wrong person, and I would LOVE to even the score with him and I know I have the power. But so many people tell me not to. Everyone tells me that, “he’ll get what’s coming to him.” Has anyone ever thought that maybe I’m the one that’s supposed to give him what he’s got coming??!?!?! He is a ramp manager at LAX for a major airline…let’s just say, going high to work is a big no no!! Sometimes I just want to let that airline know that their passengers aren’t safe because he’s operating under the influence. His job would be gone in a heart beat. And he’s been living here on a green card for 20 years. Maybe if he was facing criminal drug charges they would deport his ass back to England?!?! Ohhhhh I can’t tell you how that would make my day. Can you tell that I’ve put some thought into this? LOL! I just want him to hurt as much as I have. But so many people tell me that I would be stooping to his level. I don’t know, sometimes I feel that I’m entitled to ruin his life. Why should I care?!?! He didn’t give a S#!% about me?!?! Anybody feel free to jump in on this one. I’m just so sick of him getting away with ruining people’s lives.
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amber says:
P.S. I have a date next week!! I’m scared to death..but excited..yikes!! It’s been a looooong time since I’ve felt ready to even attempt to get to know someone new.
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Kathleen Hawk says:
Hooray, Erin! That is such good news.
This makes me think about something I’m not sure how to articulate. But I’m curious what you think about it.
Do you think that there’s a major difference between being afraid of them and having a healthy respect for the damage they can do? In observing you, I’m always struck by the fact that you that you’re concerned about the potential damage — and you do whatever you can to win these encounters — but you’re not overly impressed by the sociopaths you deal with.
Me neither. The more I think about them, the more I think they’re weenies with very impressive fronts. Very plausible, very attached to all the badges of power, very “well dressed” in a shallow but shiny sort of way. But if you can penetrate the front, or if they get distracted from keeping it seamless, you see the chaos and the childish emotional system behind it.
If we’re dependent on them in some way — like being married to them or having children with them — this is very bad news. We’re not dealing with the personalities we thought we could trust.
But if were in battle with them, especially in legal situations, it can provide some definite advantages. Like they really have a hard time dealing with facts that illuminate how disorganized and chaotic their versions of truth are. And when stressed, they often respond by making their fronts more and more grandiose, until it becomes apparent that they have no real grip on reality.
The fact that your judge saw through him is something that we might see as a matter of luck, if we’re overly impressed with the ability of sociopaths to bluff their way through anything. But I’m not sure that’s so. I think that a good number of people do see through them, and particularly when given an opportunity to see how they respond to challenges, especially factual ones.
Which is why your advice to keep records of everything is so good. You are basically approaching the legal arbiters and saying, “Okay you’ve seen him and his front and his emotional arguments. Now here’s me and my front and my facts. What looks correct to you?”
Because I think that’s one of the odd things about them. Their arguments tend to be emotional. Either their own emotions or attributing emotions or emotional motivations to other people. We find it so outrageously disrespectful when they describe us to other and to ourselves as having base or manipulative or childish motivations. But if you consider that they really can’t deal with the facts — because they are lying and manipulating all the time and the facts are not their friends — it sort of looks different, doesn’t it? They don’t look quite so impressive.
I’ll never forget the evening when I was telling someone about my story with my ex, and he just shrugged and said, “Oh well, you got involved with a user.” As though it was a well-known type. I live in the country, and he was a country man. And I wondered at the time if that was just the kind of common sense that comes from being country-bred.
But then, I also know that virtually everyone around me recognized my ex for what he was. When I moved to new locations, and he followed me, he consistently managed to alienate everyone I had befriended. Not in trying to get them out of my life, but just all on his own. When he worked for me, the one client I ever gave him to manage, refered to him as the troglodyte.
Obviously, this isn’t universally true. We all have our stories of being involved with popular guys who turned out to have another personality at home. But I think that maybe there are a whole lot more people than we know that actually do recognize these people, maybe not at first sight, but very quickly if given a little personal exposure.
And that maybe if we weren’t so impressed by their demonic ability to hypnotize people into doing their bidding (namely us), we might go into battle with them with a little more confidence and the kind of ammunition that you take with you.
Long-winded as usual. Sorry. But what do you think, Erin? Does any of this resonate with you?
Kathy
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shabbychic says:
EB you are F-A-B-U-L-O-U-S !!!!!!!
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Kathleen Hawk says:
EB, what I really meant to say is that you are such an inspiration. I got so caught up in the ideas your post inspired that I forgot to say that.
It’s your successes that help us realize that they are not unbeatable. It doesn’t mean that we want them in our lives. But when we wake up and have to fight them to control the rest of our lives, you have described some real principles of how to do it. Like go in knowing what you want. And bring the facts with you.
Your successes keep changing my idea of the possible. Thank you!!!
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valerie says:
Steve -
I spent 30 years with my ex-husband – at the end of our relationship I was emotionally exhausted. I’m now able to recognize the constant manipulation that occured – the lies & deception. Also within his large family. Following that 30 year relationship I was in a 3 year spin with a sociopath — I’ve worked through the 3 year relationship….
and now… The 30 year relationship is the place my mind wants to go. I’m constantly surprised by a simple action within my day that triggers a memory of deceit and my past constant state of confussion.
I read your scenario, the interation between Wife & Sociopath – I saw myself & my ex-husband. Our language was always calm and his denial was quick & convincing & my questions stopped & the thoughts were buried. These interactions were on-going during the 30 years. I generally thought of myself as someone that just seemed to have ongoing PMS or a short circut; something was wrong with me. A trusted friend once telling me; “you will never be happy.” My ex and his family are well liked and they take a lovely family photo. It is only now & years later & enough time away from he & his family that I’m able to recognize the daily assault on my mind.
A few days ago I had a conversation with my ex-husband — his tricks of deception no longer work. I was shocked at how obvious his deception was; that I could recognize the language of deceit and I felt strong, great, empowered. I was frustrated by the conversation for a short period of time. I was able to recover without further damage or by sending myself into a spin. He and his family had such a hold on me for years. I met this man when I was 17. I was naive and vulnerable. It’s amazing to me that my mind can heal. Each day I think I have Mental Clarity and I’m darn good; and then I realize I’m still healing because the next month I’ll recognize that I’m stronger and better.
I’ve isolated myself a great deal this past year & thankfully have had the finances to stay closed up in my home to read & explore & heal. This has been a journey. A crazy journey.
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Twice Betrayed says:
Valerie: Amazing how alike our lives are. I was married to my x for almost thirty years….and for the last year…I’ve been closed in my home healing, writing and exploring. I also have spoken with him and his tricks are obvious and no longer work. *high five
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OxDrover says:
Dear Valerie,
It takes time and WORK and peace to heal…glad you are here and healing! Keep on reading and learning, there is much to absorb and understand but I think yo uare WELL on your way to ‘getting it” and overcoming the devestation such a relationship can have. God bless!
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skylar says:
hooray, valerie!
mine was 25 years. a prison sentence.
but yes, his lies are no longer effective, they make me laugh. then I told him that he was a sociopath and sang a sad sociopath song to him on the phone.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvgZkm1xWPE
he kept hanging up when he heard the music.
then he would call back and I’d play it again.
He’s a musician and he used to say that I couldn’t sing, but I can sing this song perfectly which I knew would burn him up. He envys EVERYTHING.
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valerie says:
Twice Betrayed – thank you & right back to you — high five.
Ox Drover – thank you for your thoughtful words.
skylar – you sent me on a tour of coldplay via youtube – I enjoyed the music from “viva la vida” I’m hoping I found the correct spanish/english translation = “long live life” and the album cover painting named;”Liberty Leading The People.”
thank you all – very touching.
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skylar says:
Hi Valerie,
I’m glad you liked the song. I think the translation is “living the life” but it could be construed as “long live life” too.
The lyrics and those sad violins tell the story of a narcissist who went from illusions of grandeur to delusions of paranoia. That’s why I like making the xP listen to it. Also because it makes him hang up the phone.
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Twice Betrayed says:
Valerie: thanks!
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Twice Betrayed says:
That verbal exchange between wife and s was something right out of my past……right down to the language…
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style1 says:
The commonality is that they have a self-serving agenda and they use whatever that they have in their skill set and charms to achieve this.. And when their agenda is not believed, followed or adhered to then that is when their real person emerges.
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IMconfused says:
This article perfectly describes my husband! It also makes me feel better about how I now handle things.
Questing him leaves me frustrated 99% of the time. He immediately changes the subject with retorts regarding things that virtually “everyone in the world” finds wrong about me!
When I remind him that he is changing the subject, he raises his voice in contempt while continuing to be demeaning to me. I ultimately walk away in disgust. Then he seems compelled to yell out one more nasty comment…to have the final word. That will usually be followed with days of him refusing to talk to me.
I have learned these things:
CHECK OUT THE VALIDITY OF EVERYTHING HE SAYS…ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING! (There might be up to a 5% possibility that he’s actually telling the truth).
DON’T ARGUE WITH A BULLY. INSTEAD, KNOW THE DRILL…CONFRONTING WILL NOT CHANGE ANYTHING>>>EXCEPT PROBABLY GIVE HIM VALIDATION (now he can hold you responsible for his actions…you made him do things that he never would have done if you hadn’t driven him to do it) FOR DOING WHATEVER HE WOULD HAVE DONE ANYWAY.
HOW DO I DEAL WITH HIS BULLY BEHAVIOR?
Since confronting him ultimately leads to his silent treatment, I choose to ask those questions only when I need a well deserved “time out” from him! Lol!
In all fairness, I’ve only gotten to this point after 20 years of suffering with the madness resulting from trying to communicate logically with someone who lacks the ability to be logical.
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shabbychic says:
IMconfused, I hope you will stick around and read more articles. I think even his silent treatment is another way he is finding to abuse you emotionally. Of course he changes the subject when you ask him a question! They are experts at that!
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Wini says:
HI LF Buddies. I haven’t written in a while … but wanted to share this e-mail that I received from the Berean. As you are aware, there are many sides to an issue, the medical and the spiritual. I found these passages interesting since we discuss the EVIL ones that came into our lives.
Peace to everyone’s heart and souls as they heal.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(12) Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; (13) but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
Hebrews 3:12-13
Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.
The will is the power or faculty by which the mind makes choices and acts to carry them out. At first, against his will, a person engages in some forbidden pleasure because he wants to, but if he keeps it up, he soon finds that he has no strength to resist it. This process does not happen anymore quickly than an addiction to alcohol, but in the end, he keeps sinning because he cannot help but do so! Once a thought or act becomes a habit, it is a short step to being a necessity. The old saying is true: “Sow an act and reap a habit; sow a habit and reap a character; sow a character and reap a destiny.”
Hebrews 3:12-13 reveals a worrisome characteristic of sin: “Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; but exhort one another daily, while it is called ‘Today,’ lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.” Sin is seductive, enticing, deceitful, and hardening.
Sin’s deceitfulness is that it cannot deliver what it promises. It deludes a person into thinking he can “have it all” or “take it or leave it.” It promises pleasure, contentment, fulfillment, and life, but what it delivers in those areas is fleeting, which leads to its addictive quality. The pleasure is never quite enough to produce the desired contentment and fulfillment. Sinners are forced into greater perversions until it kills them.
Sin offers rationalizations and justifications. It puts on a plausible appearance and can even seem to be virtuous, as in situation ethics. However, sin’s drug-like quality always demands more because what formerly satisfied no longer will. The person in its grip gradually becomes its slave, and all along the way, his heart becomes hardened as well.
In Hebrews 3:13, hardened is translated from the Greek word for a callus. A callus forms around the break in a bone, on the palms of hands and on fingers from constant hard use, or in a person’s joints, paralyzing its actions. In a moral context, it suggests “impenetrable,” “insensitive,” “blind,” or “unteachable.” A hardened attitude is not a sudden aberration but a habitual state of mind that shows itself in inflexibility of thinking and insensitivity of conscience. It can eventually make repentance impossible.
Jeremiah 9:1-5 describes people in this state, so inured, so enslaved to sin that they weary themselves pursuing and doing it:
Oh, that my head were waters, and my eyes a fountain of tears, that I might weep day and night for the slain of the daughter of my people! Oh, that I had in the wilderness a lodging place for wayfaring men; that I might leave my people, and go from them! For they are all adulterers, an assembly of treacherous men. “And like their bow they have bent their tongues for lies. They are not valiant for the truth on the earth. For they proceed from evil to evil, and they do not know Me,” says the LORD. “Everyone take heed to his neighbor, and do not trust any brother; for every brother will utterly supplant, and every neighbor will walk with slanderers. Everyone will deceive his neighbor, and will not speak the truth; they have taught their tongue to speak lies, and weary themselves to commit iniquity.”
John W. Ritenbaugh
From The Elements of Motivation (Part Seven): Fear of Judgment
Related Topics:
Addiction to Sin
Addictions
Addictive Quality of Sin
Habits
Habitual Sin
Hardening Hearts
Hardening of Conscience
Sin , Addictive Quality
Sin Destroys the Will
Sin, Deceitfulness of
Sin, Hardening Effects of
Slave of Sin
Spiritual Callus
©Copyright 1992-2009 Church of the Great God
The Berean: Daily Verse and Comment is made possible through voluntary contributions
to the Church of the Great God.
P.O. Box 471846
Charlotte, NC 28247
803-802-7075
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shabbychic says:
Hi Wini !! Good to hear from you, thanks for the post, interesting how we can delude ourselves and then try to rationalize away everything, that’s what I did for a long time. Hope all is well with you!
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ErinBrock says:
Kathleen….
I’m sorry….I didn’t see your ‘gogetemgirl’ to me up above about 18 inches…..
THANKS FOR WRITING THAT, and I am glad I inspired these thoughts in you…..
Now to address your well written questions of me…..I hope I can respond with justice….
I have always attributed, as I told you before, my willingness to fight due to the fact that I was so downtrodden and after my cancer and et al….I got to the point when I gave up the fear.
As a youngster, into my mid 20′s I worried about EVERYTHING……back then….I came to the conclusion I was tired of worrying…..and realized that 99.9% of what we worry about never comes to fruition…..so each time I found myself in a state of worry….which was daily….does she like me, did I say something wrong, do something wrong, do a good job, make a good enough meal, park the car right, wear the right outfit, hurt someone’s feelings, blah, blah…..I started asking myself…….AM I, OR IS ANYONE I LOVE GOING TO DIE OVER THIS…..like DIE….as in death…the end….The answer was ALWAYS NO……so I trained myself to give up the worry and eventually I didn’t worry about everything…..It takes work and reminding myself to stand back and evaluate….
So….fast forward when I faced death…..ALONE…….I spent all these years fruitlessly worrying about others, and when I needed some worry at home plate, I was abandoned! Not only abandoned, but tortured….kids kidnapped, family alienated me and husband filed for divorce during treatments as a sabotage tactic.
I didn’t have much to live for, and I knew it would all be uphill…….but I wasn’t ready to die…..
So…….I gathered up my ‘fuck you’ attitude and decided to fight…..If I had of died…..I didn’t want the world talking about me as they had perceived (through his stories and lies) me……for eternity and brainwashing the kids with this as their memory of a mother who had always fought for them……
So this is where my ‘fuck you’ you are not going to kill me because…..I”M NOT AFRAID TO DIE attitude hit me….
I removed the fear of dying….my perception of the last, end, and greatest fear….
Whether it was the S or the Dissected Carotid artery or cancer killing me…..take me if it’s MY time…..BUT I AIN”T GONNA GO WILLINGLY.
So……the world changed for me……at that moment in time.
It kicked me in gear and I went high speed into healing, walking again, getting out there and doing what I needed to do….
Fear is very powerful, it can be paralyzing. I couldn’t be paralyzed……I wanted my kids safe and at home….so I had to give up fear.
YES…..I believe there IS a difference in being afraid VS having a healthy respect for the damage they are capable of.
One is fear and one is awareness.
I believe we should always be aware of everything around us……but NOT fear it!
I removed the being afraid equation and I decided I could do more damage to them, so they should be the one respecting ME with HEALTHY respect.
Since sociopaths see everything as win/lose…..I was going to do anything I could to expose and learn what it was I had to do…..tactic wise to repel BOTH of the sociopaths in my world…..the ex and the new business idiot. Legally! Show them legally, I was bigger, badder and not a force to be reckoned with. Like a tsunami…..we all think we can swim through one, until you have the wave hit!
I have taken precautions….alarm systems in my homes, security cameras, alerting the neighbors, having the police do house checks on both properties….
I won’t lie, cheat or steal…..and I have what we call dignity…..but I grew balls bigger than theirs and decided I was going to humble them in court…..and follow up hard in court, through the system to let them know…..I’ve got more smarts than you and I’ll use em! It’s empowering, and it enables me to teach my kids to stand up for what is right.
Since they are not capable of notching up their game, stop the lies and manipulations……I have a leg up there…..My story is always the same, because I have nothing to keep track of…..they do….but, they can’t!
I go in over prepared with the documentation….organized and presentable for the judge…..but I also go in organized and prepared with my body language for the S’s…..and this is a great tool…..invaluable.
Now….thus far, (and I hope it’s no more)….but whatever…bring it on…..I have only had 2 Sociopaths that I have gone into the courts with……but I have seen over 9 judges and 15 court appearances……and in the end is when I fine tuned the tactics directed AT the S’s. I paid attention to how everyone around responded to them, their behaviors and I learned how to approach the situation. I has worked for me.
Know the game!!!! Them, you and your judge.
Being concerned about the potential damage…..well….my safety…of course…..but I’m not going to run because of the fear, the threat. It goes back to I’m not afraid of dying concept.
Your question about the damage….as in things…..I separated myself out from my ‘things’ when I faced death…ya know….ya can’t take it with you…..BUT……it sure would be nice to live with them while I’m around…..so I am ambiguous about the items….I’ll fight for them, if they are bundled in the point and repelling the S’s…..yes….why not. It’s the cherry on the soda.
I think my main point in fighting is 2 fold…..exposure and repelling.
With the above, it adds to our element of safety, letting them know….sorry…I got your gig and I ain’t keeping my mouth shut about it and the law/courts/neighbors/ friends/family knows who you are! YOU CAN”T CONTROL ME, So stop trying, cuz your damn near jail with all your hiding!!!!
And if anything happens to me…….you’ll be the first person they look for!
If we look at how many of our sociopaths killed….(and I in no way mean any disrespect for those that have lived life threatening or lost their lives in situations of violence) it’s pretty low. Yes, Most Cluster B’s are talk, empty talk….destructive, but not gun toting, knife wielding kill you dudes. They are all capable of killing, but I am too….if we look at it that way.
So I place myself, in dealing with them….above them….I become smarter, savvier, more aware and more able to present a case that shows the truth….after that…it’s up to the judge…. I know my enemy and I don’t go in blind.
I do think, it’s KEY to be overly prepared, under emotional, emotional in the right presentations and hit all angles possible.
I didn’t know the inside out of the S #2…..the ex I knew inside and out, and can still predict his moves. Not the business S. I know him from what I reconned of him….and it was substantial recon….I have access to all his personal files…..he left them in the property and I evicted and took possession of everything. So I studied it all, every scrap. And made notes….Things that didn’t make any sense, made sense when I opened up another file folder….I put the puzzle of S #2 together. I contacted people undercover…..and I gathered other victims input on him….. I didn’t need much of it to present to the judge, because he had the burden to prove HIS case…..NOT ME.
So I didn’t reveal much…..just enough to let him know……I KNOW WHO YOU ARE! And I ain’t gonna keep my mouth shut and I could really cause you some damage with what I have!!!!
Another angle I took which also helped…..was going to community forums and asking this judge about how he deals with Cluster B’s from the bench…..He didn’t know about ‘cluster b’s’……Not surprisingly….so I went on my diatribe at the forum and they all were educated….surprising what a perceived ‘mentally ill’ person looks like when she’s educating the community……and rationally and answering questions and sparking interest…..(attacked two issues…..there). Hmmmmm not so psycho am I……Yes, I REALLY DID HAVE CANCER……thanks for the support!!!
I NOW use the description cluster B, when speaking with ‘outsiders’……because, if you ask someone if they know what a S is…..they all say yes,(and most have the perception of a killer, not their pastor, neighbor etc….) because we’ve all heard the word, but no one has the balls to say….NO, YA KNOW, I DON”T REALLY KNOW WHAT A SOCIOPATH IS……we’ve all been there….
But THEY ARE ALL stumped with CLUSTER B…..and ask WHAT a Cluster B personality disorder?…..and it’s my lead in…..I don’t have to force it on anyone……they ask….they are interested. Cluster B personality disorder……what’s that….
So….by going to this forum, and I only went because I knew we would meet this judge one day (the ex)and I had a personal agenda to network on MY level..…..it helped me personally and I’m sure it helped others……
Is that manipulation or networking? Hmmmm?
I think where they have a ‘leg up’ is in the lead up to court, the years or months it takes to get there….this is where we can’t take anything personal…..whatever they shoot, we need to listen and decode with the sociopaths dictionary…. NEVER TAKE IT PERSONAL…..They beat us up so badly leading up, that we end up saying enough, give it all to them. They financially destroy us, mentally, physically…..and this is where we break. This is where they win. But they don’t ever go away, they are NEVER HAPPY!
Again, in my case….it was the cancer/strokes/dissected carotid/alienation from my support etc….If THAT ALL DIDN”T BREAK ME……I was in for the long haul for sure.
It wasn’t easy…..there were a lot of times I doubted the process, I would back away for a few days….but I was always lead back. I knew I couldn’t walk away.
I changed attorneys……I couldn’t afford to…That was a vital move, I would not have done near as well……I would have been destroyed. My former attorney didn’t get it.
He told me straight up…..you can only choose one property….I said, no way….I have full title on my invest. Property….it’s always been mine…I’m not going to choose…..tell me the legal basis of your statement….he couldn’t provide a legal basis except my state was community property…It didn’t make sense! It was my legal property, I funded it, I managed it, and all rental checks came in MY name and I had ALL documentation…..WHY…he couldn’t give me an answer. I QUESTIONED AUTHORITY…..I’m good at that.
He eventually yelled at me…..at that point we no longer had a good working relationship and I felt like I was back with the S….kind of like….just shut up and do what I say…..I began to focus on finding the right attorney for my case…..this was a whole other bag of worms…..and costly….and very time consuming….I interviewed many….it was election time….I interviewed judges……I read books again…..and made the THANK GOD….right decision!
I paid attention to others advice that have been there….and weeded it out…..to fit my needs.
I read e-books about what others experience was like in court with a Narcissist. Essentially they are the same…..in court at least…..all a pain in the ass, all lying, all projecting and muddying the waters. I NEVER got involved with the muddying without documentation…….
Muddying works on the streets……because people love juice…and they squeeze it….but in a courtroom……mud is not productive to the S…..and Certainly NOT if it’s not provable.
Courts are based on facts! It’s a business transaction….cut and dry. S’s are emotional….this is why we can’t be! We need to be the CEO of our court dealings.
You wouldn’t go into a business meeting with shareholders in tears…..so control them in here! Period! AGAIN IT”S NOT PERSONAL, it’s all business!
S’s try and place us on the defensive……the whole time leading up to the hearings…and again in court…..There is NO LAW that we must respond to anything……we produce documents that are requested, but we don’t have to go on a letter writing campaign defending ourselves……NEVER! Stick with the facts. Bank statements, contracts, Deeds, former orders……and whatever you have documented Police reports, school reports, social workers reports, therapists reports, photos, videos, phone records etc….
Whatever it is you’re trying to show.
I knew what I was up against and dedicated myself to MY cause!
I think, in the end….yes….they are more threatening and we are certainly threatened from the intimate relationship we have had…..and this tends create more fear in us.
This is why our neighbors don’t believe us and are not scared of them, our family, our mutual friends…etc….if he was so scary, then why did you stay with them so long. They have a certain control over us that fears us out of fighting them in the legal arena.
In reality……I say fuckem…..let them know WHO you have become …..and if you find it a requirement……HAVE NO FEAR….THE EX OF A SOCIOPATH IS NOW HERE!!!!
After all that….I think I answered your question…..and yes, to sum it up….I agree with you Kathleen!!!
XXOO
EB
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Isabell says:
Whewwwwwwwwweeeeee EB!!!!!!!
Another one I’m going to have to print so I can read it again, and again. Powerful stuff!! Empowering!! EXACTLY what I needed!!!
THANK YOU!!!!!
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Wini says:
Hi Shabbychic. I didn’t rationalize that he was a good guy. I really thought I lucked out by finding this great guy. I chalk it up to two things:
1) focusing on my bosses and their cronies beating me down for 6 years … I was mortified and was so focused on keeping my head above water with their trumped up antics.
2) he’s a great actor … should go into show business, he’d win several academy awards. I really thought he was standing by my side through all of this. Never thinking he was playing me too. Boy, jealousy, greed and selfishness surely blind folks today!
I have a funny story to share. Well, not so funny for me … but funny if it didn’t happen to do with destroying my finances …
A letter came in a week ago addressed to my EX. By accident, it was torn open. I have no clue how that happened! I went to pick up the paperwork off the floor and happened to notice it was a collection agency notifying my EX of a outstanding bill he owed a jewelry store of some $1,200 plus dollars (engagement ring? Wedding ring? Didn’t come on my finger?)
I sat on that knowledge for a week and happened to answer the phone pertaining to the collection agent. I explained the situation … and she informed me that she googled my EX and he’s a real bad character … that I should look on the net regarding what others are saying about him and that this women even put his photo on the site and I should check it out. I thanked her for the information and told her I already knew what the site said … for I was the lady that wrote the post. That’s one smart women checking these sites for what these guys are all about.
Gave me a chuckle how other decent women can be … as they tip off women. That’s my kind of lady friend!
Peace.
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ErinBrock says:
Hi Wini…..good to see you around…..and it sounds as if you are moving on down the road!
Nice that others feel the need to ‘inform’ huh…..I think it’s all too necessary….unfortunately, some women think they can be the ones to change em……
NEVER!
Take good care and stick around huh!
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Wini says:
Hi Erin, I never thought about changing anyone at any time in my life. I would just break up or divorce them.
I knew about these folks due to the first guy I dated after my marriage ended. He turned into being my 1st roller coaster ride. It was at that time (28 y.o.) that I read up on the subject of narcissism. As I read the books on anti-social personalities … is when I realized that many of my co-workers and bosses had the same condition. I could now comprehend the craziness I was seeing/dealing with daily while going into work.
My Ex played the nice guy, decent family man and victim. His Ex-wife refused to talk with me … so I was left with his analogy of how his marriage was. I bought it hook, line and sinker due to working with so many women like he described his EX wife to be. I almost collapsed when I found out that he too was one. My legs were actually buckling under my weight after my sister and friends made me grab all the paperwork he left behind. While putting the paperwork in chronological order … was when I realized that everything he told me was a lie. I was viewing paperwork proving TRUTH versus his fiction. I couldn’t believe it. I wanted to walk off a cliff. I got played by my bosses and my EX at the same time and didn’t even know he had anything to do with what was happening to me. I was so busy focusing on what my bosses did every day, never once did I have the luxury to have free time to even think derogatory thoughts about my EX. I believed everything he said, that it was he and I … that he was standing by my side. Talk about a double whammy!!!! (ouch).
I know one thing, my situation would never have been so extreme if I wasn’t sidetracked for 6 years by my bosses. NO WAY. I already knew what these types of creatures were all about. If I had the luxury to not be burdened with my bosses antics, no way would my EX have gotten away with the foreclosure, or my just lending him money without my checking facts. I didn’t have the time nor the energy to do regular checking of my life and details. I was exhausted every day for 6 years and had to let mundane things go … because my bosses overloaded me with new duties every week. I was overloaded … so to not collapse, I let go everything but the basics sit on a shelf. In hindsight, they knew exactly what they were doing. I still think my EX was a ringer for them. That’s why no one picks him up.
Bottom line, I couldn’t believe my luck that a guy understood this subject matter about anti-socials. We talked about my bosses and all their cronies and what they did to me daily. I’m shaking my head now. He must have thought (actually he did) hit the lottery with me. How convenient that psychos are destroying my career and my total focus was on them. Never thinking or having the time to look cross eyed at my EX. How convenient. I was such easy pickings for all of them. That’s why I’m appalled that the court doesn’t open up my case again and bring all the players that took me down. That includes the 2 attorneys I hired. They all protect each other. I’m sure my situation would bring down some pretty big fishes!
Good night … or should I say good morning. I’m logging off now.
Peace.
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skylar says:
Erin, thanks for writing about your battles in court.
All the stuff you’ve written above and in your previous posts is helpful because you are so fluent in P-speak. So few of us know the language. We think they’re speaking English! LOL!
P-speak contains all the clues to understanding the P-mind and preparing yourself for the ultimate battle with the P.
What?
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witsend says:
G Morning everyone. I did a little research on the place that was recomended for counseling for my son. Not much info was avail. Looks like it is for low income familys and run by a ministry group. And they offer general sevices. Family, couples, and individual services.
Next week is a busy week for me. I am doing a show over the weekend and then another the following weekend. This is it, for shows for me, until spring. Whatever money I make has to get me through winter. (I live pretty frugal in the winter) In this economy its a rather unsettling proposition. Needless to say I need to fine tune what inventory I am bringing, how to display it, price it, and promote it, so the potential customer will feel they can’t live without it! I have alot of money in this inventory and so my week is going to be filled with the DETAILS and preperation of presenting my merchandise so that it sells itself.
Also pressing for me though next week, is the appointment I have with the counselor. I do not have expectations that my son will even agree to go. I have also decided that I will use this resource for myself if he does not. Because it is affordable.
The police officer is expecting that he will present this option to my son and that he will take it.
I am prepared to make copies of school records and all the “factual” evidence that school records would provide to show how he has sabatoged himself in school.
Also that I did file for incorrigable with courts ect.
However I would like to use this hour that I will have with her to really present her with the real problems I see with my son. And this is where I fall short. It is so hard to articulate, especially w/o getting emotional. Things with him have escalated over a short period of time and I have such a problem organizing my thoughts, putting into words, and FOCUSING on what is important to present to this counselor, in a short period of time. (initial session)
I have a hard time putting into words the tangled mess of daily living with a disordered individual. Words to define what “it is” seem to escape me when I REALLY need them.
I know this from my experience to try and explain to my closest friends what I am going through.
Any suggestions?
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Rosa says:
Witsend:
You articulate and express yourself BRILLIANTLY on this blog.
And, I believe you will be able to effectively express your experiences with your son to the new counselor, as well.
You will be fine.
And, if the policeman thinks he can convince your son to go to this new counselor, then this cop is a Godsend, as well.
At least as far as I am concerned, he is.
I really believe your son needs a strong male figure in his life, especially since his father is not here.
It seems like this cop is sort of doing that.
You have made it this far, Witsend.
As someone reminded me recently, “God did not bring us here to fail.”
You will make it through this.
One way or another.
I will be thinking of you & your son.
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skylar says:
morning witsend,
I would suggest, (as I always do) that you buy the book,
“Why is it always about you” by sandy hotchkiss and give it to the counselor long before your appointment.
The book explains narcissism so perfectly. why should we struggle with words when there are more educated and eloquent people who have already done it for us?
You might also explain to the counselor, our theory about their stories and how they use stories to create new realities in thier minds which then act as reinforcement, impetus, and justification for their behavior.
I posted an example in my response to IC:
http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/.....ment-54021
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witsend says:
Skylar, Rosa,
I can articulate better what actually is going on better in writting format than speaking to someone. Because it allows me to reread what I have said and allows me thinking time to better express what I am trying to say.
When I am trying to “tell” someone, I get lost…..My quest for outside “help” in this situation has never come easy. It always seemed to be an uphill battle. That required alot of time and effort.
Each time I did have opportunity, I seemed to not be able to “get the job done” with words.
Would it be better to possibly write everything down and then just “read” what I want to say? That would eliminate some of the emotions and frustration….
I am not sure if I could get the book in time. My appointment is Wed.
If I did go equiped with the book that would be great, but I also want her to understand to some extent the personal content of this situation.
The hatred he has for me for one. This is hard to measure in words.
However if there is only one thing that I am able to get accross to this woman. THIS is the ONE thing I want her to understand. I don’t want her to underestimate this fact, because I am unable to find the proper words.
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shabbychic says:
witsend, writing it down is exactly what I would do, I even will write a little list with maybe 3 items on it when I go to my regular doctor because half the time I forget what I wanted to ask about. You could make an “outline” so you don’t feel like you are just reading to her, or just read to her if you want!! Your writing is wonderful!!
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banana says:
OFF TOPIC,
Would you mind telling me how you would take this is a good friend of your’s wrote it?
______,
You and I have been friends for 5 years.
I meant what I said when I said you have nothing to do with the situation which arose between co-worker/acquaintance and I.
Had you not loaned us the twin bed, you would not have been involved.
I would like for you and I to leave that situation out of our relationship and restore the fun and loving nature we once treated one another with.
However, if you are unable to separate your concern for coworker/acquaintance from your interest in maintaining a healthy relationship with me, all I ask is that you respectfully inform me of your decision, and I, in turn will respect your wishes.
Sincerely,
your friend
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witsend says:
Thanks Shabbychick. I do this at regualr doctor appointments as well.
I guess in this situation I feel I have so much to say, a little time to say it, and so it seems important to me to say it well.
I don’t want to necessarily be “scripted”, however I know myself well and I will have problems without paper…..
To much emotions involved for me to stay clear headed and focused.
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amber says:
I’m seeing a couselor next Wednesday and I love the idea of writing things down. I’m going to do that before I go. I don’t want to forget anything and I want to make sure that I express my feelings clearly. Over the last few weeks, being able to write everything out has been so theraputic for me. Somehow it makes everything more concrete and real. The only thing I’m worried about, is that the counselor won’t know much about S. I’m going to a school counselor because it’s free, and I don’t have health insurance to cover the cost of seeing one. But I thought I’d give it a shot, jus to help sort out some of what I’m going through. Hopefully she knows a little about S.
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witsend says:
amber,
I am also thinking that the counselor I will be speaking with will have little back ground, (if any) dealing with personality disorders.
Perhaps this is why I am wanting to at least be able to express myself well and be crystal clear of what I have to say.
On this forum people have been in all kinds of situations with this disorder on a personal level. So it isn’t difficult to feel understood when you come here.
However I have found that when discussing this with the general population, (friends, family and even counselors) many times they do not “get it”.
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