Exposing the sociopath
PDF Last week Lovefraud received the following e-mail from a reader:
I would like to expose the person who bilked me for thousands of dollars. I am going to file a claim in small claims court so there will be some public record, but I thought about having a web site that would be linked when someone Googled his name. Is this legal? If I tell only the truth about him, is that legal? I want to protect other women from this sociopath; I don’t know how. I thought if people were able to Google his name and know about his lies and deceit, they could have the knowledge I never did and could make better choices than me. Any and all information would be helpful.
Many people have asked the same question—can I expose the sociopath? Unfortunately, there is no easy answer. Several different laws apply, and the laws have been interpreted differently by various courts. Here’s a brief overview of the situation regarding U.S. law.
Lawsuit for anything
First of all, there are two types of law in the United States: criminal law and civil law.
It is unlikely that you would be arrested, or end up in jail, for exposing the actions of a sociopath. Although in some states libel is on the books as a criminal offense, it is rarely prosecuted.
However, under civil law in the United States, anybody can sue for anything. Whether the person who files a lawsuit actually wins is another issue—it depends on whether it can be proven that an actual law was broken.
But here’s what you have to keep in mind: If you expose the sociopath, and the sociopath files a lawsuit against you, you will have to defend yourself whether the lawsuit has merit or not. There’s a good chance that you’ll have to retain an attorney, which is going to cost you money.
Some sociopaths love to file lawsuits. And, as we’ve discussed many times here on Lovefraud, they’re experts at manipulating the legal system. Therefore, you should ask yourself these questions:
- Is this sociopath prone to filing lawsuits?
- Does the sociopath have the resources to hire an attorney?
- Do you have the resources to defend yourself if the sociopath takes you to court?
Suppose you’ve considered these questions and you want to move ahead with exposing the sociopath. You’ll want to maximize the chances that you’ll win a lawsuit if the sociopath files one. For that, you’ll need a basic understanding of media law.
Media law
There are two basic types of law to consider when exposing a sociopath. They are:
- Defamation, which includes libel and slander
- Invasion of privacy
Libel is publication of false information that injures a living person’s reputation. (Libel refers to statements or pictures that are published. Slander refers to false statements that are spoken.)
Invasion of privacy is the publication of information, even if it is true, that is highly offensive to an ordinary person.
We’ll take a closer look at both of these types of claims. However, keep in mind that the information presented here is general. Every state in the U.S. has its own libel and invasion of privacy laws—it’s best to research what they are.
Libel
In order for a sociopath to proceed with a defamation case, the following must be present:
- Sociopath must be identified
- Statements made must be false
- Statements must be defamatory
- Statements must be published
In many libel cases, the plaintiff has to spend time proving that published statements are defamatory. Some statements, however, are considered defamatory per se, which means anyone would understand them to be defamatory. The plaintiff doesn’t have to prove the fact that they are defamatory.
Traditionally, defamation per se includes:
- Allegations that injure a person’s trade, profession or business
- Allegations of sexually transmitted disease or mental illness
- Allegations of “unchastity”
- Allegations of criminal activity
It’s highly likely that if you’re exposing a sociopath, you’ll make these types of allegations. Sociopathic behavior typically includes unsavory business practices, sexually transmitted diseases, promiscuity and criminal activity. So you can count on your statements being considered defamatory.
Therefore, you must make sure that your statements are true, and you can prove it. In most U.S. states, truth is an absolute defense in libel cases.
Opinions are often not considered to be defamatory. However, if an opinion includes a false statement of fact, it can be defamatory.
Some statements are “privileged.” This means that even if a statement is defamatory, the person who makes it is excused from liability. Statements made during judicial proceedings in open court have absolute privilege. Anything said in court by anybody—judges, attorneys, plaintiff, defendant, witnesses—can be reported without fear of defamation. This protection is also extended to any legal documents filed with the court.
Invasion of privacy
Publishing private and intimate facts about a person, or information that is highly offensive and is not of legitimate concern to the public, can be considered an invasion of privacy.
Information about the following are generally considered to be protected by the right of privacy:
- Private letters
- Sexual orientation or sexual relations
- A person’s health
- A person’s wealth
Public records, such as birth, marriage and military records, may be published.
Truth is not a defense in an invasion of privacy case. Again, sociopaths often engage in behavior that reasonable people would consider offensive. Even when statements about the behavior are true, you may not be protected from an invasion of privacy claim.
Invasion of privacy claims are sometimes made because of how information is gathered. If you use surveillance, a hidden camera or a hidden microphone, your actions might be considered intrusion.
Free speech
You might be asking, “What about the First Amendment?” “What about my right of free speech?”
The First Amendment of the United States protects the freedom of the press and various rights of free speech from government censorship. The First Amendment does make it more difficult for libel cases to be pursued in the U.S. as opposed to other countries. And public figures often have to prove “actual malice” to win a libel case. However, it does not mean anyone can say anything they want about a private individual.
In the past, only journalists and newspapers had to worry about libel and invasion of privacy laws. But with the Internet, anyone can publish anything, and the law has not caught up with the technology. Therefore, there are no clear-cut guidelines about what you can do, and what you can’t.
Exposure works
At Lovefraud, I know that exposure works. Four women have contacted me from Australia. They met my ex-husband, James Montgomery, who is still fishing for victims online, but after Googling him and reading my story, ditched him.
The same has happened with other True Lovefraud Stories—I know that people have escaped involvements with Phil Haberman, Lance Larabee, Anthony Owens, Patti Milazzo, Michele Drake, Brian Ellington and Bill Strunk.
Because the legal and judicial system is so inadequate in dealing with sociopaths, in my opinion, exposure is the only thing that does work.
If you want to proceed
Therefore, if you’re thinking about exposing the sociopath who victimized you, first you must weigh the risks. Is the sociopath likely to sue? Are you in a position to defend yourself?
If you want to proceed, here are some points to keep in mind:
• Calling the person a “sociopath” may be problematic, unless you can prove an actual diagnosis. Implying a mental disorder is defamation per se. You may want to skip the term and just publish what the person did.
• Make sure you can prove that any statement you make about the sociopath is the truth. Stick to the facts.
• Don’t make any threats, even facetious threats. Avoid statements like, “Does anybody know a good hit man?”
• You may have more leeway if the sociopath is a public figure. In order to win a libel suit, the sociopath would have to prove “actual malice.” For example, if Joey Buttafuoco proceeds with his libel suit against Mary Jo, part of her defense may be to claim he is a public figure.
• If you are currently involved in a legal action with a sociopath, you should probably wait until it is over before publishing anything that might damage your case. The exception to this might be criminal cases in which the prosecutors aren’t taking any action. Sometimes media attention gets them to move, as in the Ed Hicks case.
• If you’ve been to court with the sociopath, you can use anything that was part of the court proceedings—any legal documents filed, anything said in court. Get the transcript, especially if the sociopath lied and you can prove it.
• Public records, such as criminal convictions, can be published.
• If you’re building a webpage to expose the sociopath, don’t make up a cute title like, “Five years of deception.” Use the person’s name in the url. That’s the best way for the page to show up when someone Googles the name.
• Finally, if you’re going to expose the sociopath, make sure you can do it safely. If the sociopath is violent and on the loose, put your own safety before trying to save others.
written by Donna Andersen • Permalink •
sotired says:
Hello, I’m new at lovefraud but not new with N’s. I’m not sure where to post so I’m going to throw this out here. For seven years I have been involved with an N. Now, if I can get through to a point I’m going to hit send because I keep losing what I type. I have asked him to pay me back money and it’s my word against his with the exception that I have our conversation about the matter recorded. Legal where I live. It’s a pathetic recording. I asked him to sign something that he owed me money. That’s when it got ugly, and he doesn’t know I have this recording. He made 2 payments to me, small, and has missed the last 2. I told him I would take him to civil court if he didn’t pay and he said on the tape he would deny it and so on. Very ugly. I called in Sept to collect and he said he didn’t have it. I called last night and he called back within a few minutes but I missed the call. He left a message to call him and I did and still nothing. I’ve had no contact with him with the exception of a few times trying to get the money back. He’s a gambler and drinker and an N. Of course he needed money. Now, I just want him out of my life, forget the money though I need it. I struggle with letting him off the hook, not taking him to court. I know he won’t pay me and an attorney told me it’s a rough go too. If I don’t call him on the 15th when he is suppose to pay me, I feel like I’ve given in. Sorry for the ramble. I’m so tired and still angry.
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shabbychic says:
sotired, I can so relate to your post, I was caught up in hurricane (seems like a good analogy to me) with a N/S last year, I “loaned” him a lot of money, never will be paid back, boy… did I learn a lesson. Here is a link to an article on LF related to walking away, but still feeling a victory.
http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/.....y-upright/
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shabbychic says:
sotired, are you still there? I hope you will stay with us and keep posting, there is a lot of healing information at this site, it has helped me more than I could ever say… helps you to start learning about yourself, not just them. You haven’t given in, you believed in someone who was lying, a predator.
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sotired says:
shabbychic, still here reading. I will be here a lot and yes I did believe him. He knows I don’t anymore but… no surprise, he doesn’t care or worse he believes he is winning.Thanks for writing back.
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Fleeced Ewe says:
I think, to cover our back, making statements like, “he/she has tendencies of and S, or, and N…” is safest. However, people can run with that, and accuse us of calling them the name anyway.
They know the laws better than we do, they know exactly what they can and can’t get away with and they know how we will react and exactly what they can do to punish us for the reaction.
This is why they are evil.
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littlewhitehorse says:
I have been reading lovefraud for two years now and this is the first time I have been able to write. My ability to understand had been damaged.
The conclusion I have come to is that all the education in the world cannot protect you from a narcissist or a sociopath if you are unprepared. They are so good.
I sit here feeling so old and worn. Broken psychologically, spiritually and emotionally and after two years I still can’t recover.
We spent 15 miserable years together and I left him because I took a breakdown from his abuse. We never went out as he said he had a phobia about knives in that 15 years and as all abusers do he isolated me. Slowly but surely I gave up everything I loved to keep the peace. I suffered the silent treatment, gaslighting –the works. I had nowhere to turn to. I came from a poverty stricken area and my whole family were abusive alcoholics. He on the other hand came from a moderately wealthy family and could always return. Oh. And the change was abrupt. Romantic courting—whirlwind romance–quick marriage. Big white wedding of my dreams, paid for by us, as I wanted. He changed on our wedding night.
I left my home to be repossessed and declared myself bankrupt and got a new home for me and my kids.
He helped me move our few pitiful possessions to my new home and he fitted out my home with wooden flooring that I had bought. He seemed so eager to please me and I took this as a good sign. So I asked him if he wanted to get back together. He was always a hard worker and still is. Handed his wages over every week. I never checked his account, as I believe in trust and privacy.
He still gives me money faithfully every week for maintenance for my child and I.
I went into counselling and this is where I discovered that women tend to blame themselves when a marriage goes wrong. I also learned that I was grieving. I also learned self-respect and equality. Good solid healthy boundaries and about healthy relating. My counsellor told me about the healing power of love and I developed my faith around this. He told me that it was just like peeling an onion. Meaning the layers that make a man cold and emotionally unavailable. Masculinity. For underneath is just a hurting little boy. He went into counselling too. And seemed to come out better for it. We both went to marriage guidance as well and I was so happy. He seemed to be too. He begged me to give him a chance to change and I said yes. I was patient with this process as I knew it couldn’t happen overnight.
You see– as I was just about to leave him for good 9 years ago, he all of a sudden confessed that he had been sexually abused by a neighbour and a family member. I did wonder why now—why tell me now as I am broken and leaving you. He never spoke again to me about this and I assumed that he had sorted this in counselling. I did ask him if he wanted to pursue this further with his abusers but he said no. It was in the past and that he had resolved it. I believed this. Because he had raped me during our marriage and I had resolved this. I put it down to ignorance. I also during my breakdown had a sudden premonition that my husband was a sociopath and that my daughter who was 11 was in danger from him. Our sex life was zero and what we had made me feel like a hole as I explained to my counsellor. After I said it –it felt so dramatic and my counsellor reflected this. I should have listened to myself.
I went to college and at the end of the year I won a place at university. I learned about patriarchy etc as it was the social sciences I studied. Gender and womens rights.
After my abusive history I grew strong although vulnerable and sensitive. I could spot an abuser a mile away.
From then on for seven years we led a happy life. It was good. He couldn’t do enough for me and was always saying that he loved me. We spent many happy family times together. Now and again his controlling side would emerge—but I was more than able for it. And I encouraged his relationships with his children. These were non existant before. I told him that he was going to die a sad lonely old man if he didn’t.
It was so real. We always went out on a Friday night to our local pub (on the advice of our counsellor)and as we walked to it he used to cuddle my arm into his as if he cherished me. He would romantically light his cigarette and give it to me before lighting his own.
We both had computers in our office. Whenever I got up to go and check on the kids or whatever—he would say—‘you left me’. This would make me smile at this wee insecurity. I would reassure him that I was just going to the loo or what ever.
My love for him ran deep and I was so proud of the man he had become. I thought we had both overcome our abusive history and had built something really good , solid and deep together.
I had healed completely and could not even remember my abuser. The man I lived with now was my best friend, mate and lover.
But in saying that—a small part of me still didn’t trust completely. I vowed never to get financially entangled with anyone again and to keep the house in my name.
This saved my life—perhaps not my sanity. I don’t know.
Today I was abused again by my psychiatrist. You see my story is bizarre. In fact downright unbelievable.
Timeline with her.
Landed on her doorstep two years ago.
Numbed hard and toughened
Couldn’t even speak
Had to write it down
Provided printed documentation about narcissists to support my state
Was pitifully thin
All abuse and shocks done in a period of nine months
Totally consumed by fear and adrenalin
At first diagnosed with disordered thought from a controlling relationship
Asked of it felt like a supernatural experience
I said extremely abnormal yes
Like a cult
After reading my story
Told it was a psychotic episode brought on by his narcissism
Was very confused but agreed to medication
Told I would get deep psychological work
Asked to see him
I agreed because I was concerned about something he said that stunk of incest and paedophile.
He said I said it and she believed him after ten-minute visit
After I got him out of my house
He parked his car out side my home for one and a half years from seven in the morning until five at night.
She thought this was normal
One and a half years later
Still obsessing
No psychologist.
Took off medication
Still numb
Asked to see a counsellor
Promised one
Two years later
Still numb
Feel overwhelmed by memories.
Asked her for help with memories and still concerned with my numbness
Can’t get out of my head the abuse and the fact that he could be a paedophile and having no one to discuss my story in the two years
Told me blank
No psychologist
I am just taking another psychotic episode
I pointed out that it was her that said I would get a psychologist
She denied it
I pointed out that everyone else could see that the car situation was abnormal except for her
I pointed out that how can she possible diagnose me only seeing me for an hour once every three months
I asked her why she was writing me of without a fair hearing
Knows absolutely nothing about me
She asked me only if I would take the medication and guided me pityingly out the door
I felt so defeated
So lovefraud
Can I tell you my story?
.
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Stargazer says:
littlewhitehorse,
Welcome to the site. I’m glad you decided to post after lurking for so long. You will find here that people believe you and have had similar experiences. Most people–including psychotherapists–don’t get it about sociopaths. You have to be so careful who you confide in. It does become a double whammy when your being traumatized in a relationship, and then told you are crazy by your “support system”. Sociopaths can fool even the best therapists.
From what I gather, it sounds like you fear this man might be molesting your daughter?
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shabbychic says:
littlewhitehorse, I’m so glad you posted, sounds like a horrible nightmare, yes you can tell us your story!!! Keep posting! In addition to seeing a psychiatrist can you go to a therapist? A therapist who has experience dealing with the devastation left by a sociopath? Someone who you can see once a week. In my experience psychiatrists only prescribe medication, they never did much else for me.
I think that you being able to write part of your story shows that deep down inside you have a spark of recovery going on!!! You are a survivor and I hope that you will share more of yourself here, you already know most of us!!!
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henry says:
littlewhitehorse _ we are listening.
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skylar says:
littlewhitehorse,
we will listen, but I also suggest reading books on psychopaths. My favorite is “why is it always about you?” by sandy hotchkiss.
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littlewhitehorse says:
Hi. Thanks for replying. No–I don’t think he has molested our two daughters as I was always present at home and it doesn’t show in their behaviour–although you never know it could still come out.
My oldest daughter Debbie is now 20–but my youngest Amber is 12 and she stays with him one night at the weekend. I lied to him and told him social services and child protection are monitoring her–best I could do to protect her. Stuck in a trap of not being believed and not being accused of parential alienation syndrome. So far so good–as she is bright and happy when she comes back.
He did everything to me behind their backs and I put him out suddenly with no explanation. It felt like a life or death situation. The only guidelines I had at the time was –no contact– and say nothing bad about him to your kids. As said–I was in a bad state–but kids only know I hate him and don’t know why. They don’t want to know. They love their dad and he has them fooled that he is a great family man–although he doesn’t have much time for my two oldest since he left. Only my youngest–which you will see in due course–worries me.
It must be hard for my kids as they thought that they had two of the most loving parents ever. They were all too young the first round of abuse–and know nothing about it.
Didn’t mean to lurk for so long–but the two years have went in so fast–and as said–sometimes I feel as if I have been brain damaged by the experience. It has taken this long to admit that I am no further along in recovery. Keeping it locked in has not helped either–so I am hoping that by telling I can eventually heal. Keeping someone’s confidence is one thing. Keeping poisonenous secrets another. I think it eats you up eventually.
But I had to protect my children. I don’t want them damaged by finding out unecessarily that their dad may have peodophile tendencies.
I am still not sure what happened although I see parts of my story in others–hence visit to my psychiatrist for someone to help me clarify the memories.
For the first year I was obsessed with gathering evidence and the shocks that I found kept me numb–possibly PTSD. I had to leave reading lovefraud for a time as I kept getting triggered.
I also asked my psychiatrist yesterday if her diagnosis of a psychosis could be wrong and that if she could actually push past this and look at it from an unusual domestic violence position that I could be suffering from PTSD. I got knocked down immediately. How dare I question her position.
Being still numb doesn’t help understanding and I believe you have to emotionally process each memoriy to recover. But my psychiatrist poo poohed this idea when I ran it past her. She ignored the emotional numbness. Yet I can’t help thinking that supressed emotions can’t be healthy.
I asked for a therapist–but as said –she promised then renaged. Somewhere along the line–I’m not sure why as I only saw her for an hour once every three months. Not enough for time to talk. She changed it to a psychosis. Which she maintains I have now recurring because I asked for someone to talk to and about my emotional numbness and memories.
I haven’t cried–not once throughout the experience and also not since putting him out. I wish I could. I have researched all possible avenues for his healing from psychological to biblical and have finally accepted that I can’t and no one else can do this.
Funny how you think of them first.
Anyway–thanks for listening. I will post soon about my experience. Exhausted. Keeping up a front does this to you.
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skylar says:
2
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littlewhitehorse says:
Skylar. When I took the children nine years ago I modelled self respect–taught bounderies and told them to trust their intuition at all times. My youngest– I told her that even dads may not be nice–without going into too much detail. I have hammered simple golden rules into them to protect themselves. My 20 year old is more than able. But then so was I. My good work got done then.
But in saying that I have tried to educate them in womens rights etc, but they are not receptive. Boring. The only thing I got through was about welcome and unwelcome touching and the power of the word NO. Also honouring yourself. Self respect. I am a good leader when not weakened like this. But as no one is around to abuse me they don’t see this.
Not that it helped me. I was raped emotionally, mentally and spiritually.
He did everything without their knowledge and all they have is the image of the good guy who couldn’t do enough for me. He tosses the two older ones a crumb now and again and I feel sad to see them so grateful. But I don’t know what to say about this without coming across as bitter. They are stuck in the middle.
I have decided to say nothing and let him dig his own grave. I always validate my children when they tell of something that he has done that they don’t like. They are very open with me and the fact that I tell them that I am not responsible for his behaviour puts the ball squarely at his feet. At one point he came running to me to try and fix a situation between him and our son as our son did not want to see him anymore. I told him to fix it himself.
I listened to the girls one night and I heard my oldest say that she didn’t want to phone her dad and asked my youngest to do so as he will do it for her cos he likes her better. I just said –’Is that your dad playing favourites again’. They know I don’t.
When he first left he character assasinated me to them. My only weapon was a dignified ‘ I do not discuss your dad with you–therefore I don’t know why he is doing this’. It stopped immediatley as the kids had a go at him.
I leave good books lying around. EG ‘The verbally abusive relationship’–’Why does he do that’–’and ‘Women who love psychopaths’. I will get the two above in due course. But even if they don’t read them–they know their mother is. Subtle and hopefully effective. I have also told them that I see a psychiatrist for trauma. Let them add things up themselves. kids are not stupid.
When I put him out I did not sit around and mope. The house was run down as he would not do anything with it. I put central heating in a new kitchen and decorated from top to toe. I also got us brand new beds on a limited budget. I was left with nothing after 22 years of marriage as he has no assets.
To confront a child that their father is narcisstic and is not capable of loving them to me would do untold damage. I believe in leaving hints and letting them figure it out by themselves who did what to whom and why.
Although devastated–I still model good healthy relating and loving behaviour. Which is hard as I have no feelings LOL
Anyway Skylar–Genuine heartfelt thanks for your post as it made me realise that I did alright.
He got through my defences simply because I loved and trusted him. The attack was so swift and relentless I did not have time to think. He crashed every one of my bounderies and I am still reeling trying to put them back together. I was idealised and devalued so swiftly that I didn’t even know what it meant until after the fact. I went numb instantly.That’s their strategy–I think.
I still have a good deal of identily loss and have not achieved peace of mind. But I think I look and act stable to the kids.
Again thanks for the validation about my psychiatrist. I think that when someone makes up there mind that you are sick then that is all they hear. Even my challenges about her service were seen as symtoms of a psychosis. Totally no win situation.
Thank God for you all.
Peace and Love
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kim frederick says:
Skylar, I am learning to knit. Pinky-Doodle has a blue and orange Gator sweater in his future, with many mistakes, but hey, he’s a cat and he just loves the attention. I still have a couple of weeks to get it done for the big rivalry: FLORIDA VS. GEORGIA. A really big thing around here!
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skylar says:
Oh that is soooo cute that you’re making a sweater for Pinky.
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kim frederick says:
Sky, Yes. When i went to Super Wal-Mart to get yarn and knitting needles, the cashier told me there is a group of ladies who knit together every Weds night, and she said thet were planning a get-together next week, when they would bring their dogs, all dressed -up for halloween. I don’t think Pinky would fit in………………………………….He’s kind of picky about the company he keeps…I think it has something to do with the food chain, but Pinky could explain it better. Love.
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one_step_at_a_time says:
Donna, et al:
I just spoke with the lawyer of one of the spath’s dupes. On her advice I will call the Attorney General later this week to add my name and info to the list of people who have complained about the spath. (three on record to date).
Looks like they are about a month away from moving forward on the last remaining charge – fraud.
I am seeking advice here. The lawyer made it very clear that the Judge REALLY doesn’t ‘get it’ and consequently other charges have been thrown out.
Are there specific studies, papers, etc. we at lovefraud could support the case with in terms of explaining the nature, motivation and long term prognosis of someone with the spath’s history/ profile?
one step
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one_step_at_a_time says:
the lawyer herself, although very sympathetic to the situation doesn’t seem to know much about s/p, etc. I’d like to give HER some info.
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one_step_at_a_time says:
well, i learned a new skill today; how to take screen shots.
so i spent some time and archived EVERYTHING the spath is doing online that I know about. I haven’t been looking at this stuff – and as long as i just concentrated on the archiving I was fine.
I am a bit triggered. but it’s done now. So it can go to the lawyer and AG.
On one of her own blogs – in a post that I hadn’t seen before – she wrote this long response to the woman who is suing her for fraud.
and at the end, SHE ACTUALLY WROTE: LOVE YA TOO. MEAN IT TOO. RAISE YOU A MISS YA.
OMFG!!!!!!!
WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACK JOB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And now we return to our regular programming. I am going out of tox house and away from computer and into the world.
one step
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eileen says:
As I read your posts…whatever illusions I still had about my ex disintegrated. All sociopaths are the same it seems, they even use the same words – “bunny boiler”! – I am mortified to realise that until now I still had illusions about him, and that it hurts to let them go. For instance, until I read Littlewhite horse’s story, I thought the efforts he had made to improve his behaviour were only to help his short-term plans; but never thought that he was probably planning to get some other form of control over me (he wanted a baby) to start abusing me on a much higher level. I should have known, one of his other gfs (4 at the same time as me) told me about the way he abused her emotionally and physically. Why did I want to think he would have treated me slightly differently?? It’s like unconsciously I still want to hold on to the idea that somehow he did like me a little bit, or a little bit more than the others – after all that time is he still playing with my brain if I catch myself having those delusional thoughts after everything I found out about him? I never wanted to see him again, anyway, but I liked the idea that he had maybe been sincere, say, 5% of the time…could it be that I still can’t help seeing the way he treated me as a reflection of what i deserve? Or maybe I want to believe there is some humanity in him so that he suffers??! Has anyone had similar feelings, can someone help me understand what”s happening?
Thanks!
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one_step_at_a_time says:
Hi Eileen,
I have a similar feeling- i havne’t figured it out yet, but it is early days for me.
Although I accepted what she was the moment I knew who she was and that she had done this to other people, I haven’t completely deconstructed who I THOUGHT SHE WAS, OR MY LOVE FOR THAT PERSON.
This seems to come up every few days. I spent so much time talking about how amazing she was, especially given the adversity she faced, and spent so much time admiring and laughing with her that I am shocked still that that person DIDN’T EXIST. the one l loved didn’t exist.
and almost all the nastiness i experienced came from the sock puppet alter egos i had contact with via email. so, getting that this was ALL one person is still terrifically uneasy.
I found out yesterday that, if I want, I may end up giving evidence against her. And today I find my mind reeling – there is a mix of i don’t want to be anywhere near this pyscho, and I wonder how will she react to me? See, I am still thinking she might care for me. just a tiny bit.
this is the woman i wrote about in my posts above………….the whack job. I want to know if the whack job might care for me justa’ tiny bit. AND WTF WOULD I DO WITH THAT?????!!!!!!
It is complex. I just dunno yet. but i will. and i suspect you will too. I guess it comes down to – what does it matter if they truck that hit us ‘liked’ us a tiny bit….
…and GFC, aren’t we worth more than that???
one step
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eileen says:
Thanks, One Step. Same feelings here.
I’m trying to think that if they never liked us nor respected us, nor saw us as human beings, the fact that we found them out and exposed them probably got us promoted to the rank of “problematic object not doing what it’s told anymore” – as good as it can get!
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one_step_at_a_time says:
eillen –
for the 2nd time today i felt some warmth in my heart centre (a place that mostly feel numb or completely tense lately), in response to “problematic object not doing what it’s told anymore” .
feels self defensive. and humorous. I need me some humorous.
I haven’t outed her yet. but I am gone. and if she ever tries to come back (which will be hard cause my contact info is diff and we don’t live in the same place) she’ll find out how gone. hangup gone.
one step
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Stayingsane says:
eileen
Exactly what you say. As soon as you begin to demonstrate to the P you see through the scam, you will be labelled “not working” “broken” “crazy” and he will be on the sniff for another victim that will be taken in by him to keep up his self inflated version of himself. It’s harsh so take it gently on yourself. Please try and look after you and all the love you feel for him find a way of re-directing to yourself.
Ah so he has 4 other girlfriends? since when is 5 per cent sincere…. enough for a real human being? you deserve so much more. He won’t suffer, but he won’t ever be happy….cut loose, love yourself, be 100 per cent sincere to yourself.
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eileen says:
Hi Staying sane, thanks! Thankfully he can’t make anyone around me believe that I’m crazy – I’ve pre-empted that, and his arrogance, agressivity and parasitic lifestyle had been noticed by others before. He didn’t have the time to isolate me and destroy my self-confidence completely, which I know now was his plan. I do get some satisfaction from the idea that I’ve escaped his control though, and that he can’t stand it – hence the stalking etc. I was nothing to him, finding him out turned me into something: a problem. Which is, I believe, the highest status and the closest thing to a recognition of my existence that I can get from the sociopath! I agree 5% sincere is not enough for qualifying as a human. Even if I knew half of what I know about him I wouldn’t grant him that. But like one step writes, rationalising is one thing, but because of emotions there are times when it’s hard to dissociate the sociopath from the pseudo-person you thought you knew. I believe it happens less and less with time, and knowing about sociopaths helps: I’ve realised that if I take out all the sociopathic aspects of his personality as described on this site…there’s nothing left!
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T says:
My friend and I met this guy for drinks last night at the Red Lion. He tried to stick us with a $300.00 bar tab.
We got curious and googled his name.
Boy are we surprised!!!!!!!!!!!!
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wontgetfooledagain says:
My husband did not pay taxes the last few years we were together. We co-owned a business. He was to do repair work and I was to do the bookkeeping, but I never could get him to give me receipts or info on customers so I could pay taxes to the customer’s parish taxing authority.
The other day, when I was talking to him about dividing our assets, he made it clear he is counting on sticking me with half of his tax debt. He told the IRS that the kid who stold our laptop reformatted the hard-drive and that that is how he lost all of his tax records. There WAS a theft, but he did not have any real tax records on it. The paltry records that existed were on the house computer. He is now on some kind of repayment plan.
I am convinced he is going to stick me with part of the bill, to offset my part of the assets, since I left home with nothing but a suitcase and he now owns everything. I am thinking of going to the I.R.S. and reporting how he gets paid cash as often as possible so he can avoid taxation and how he never kept records to begin with and how, although it is a repair business, he does have inventory in a storage unit, which means taxes should be paid on the inventory as well. I am thinking of writing and offering a deal to be deposed about him in exchange for not being held in any way responsible for the taxes.
It’s about the money but also about justice. He raped my little sister a number of times, counting on her love for me keeping her from ever telling me. He gave my niece (the same little sister’s daughter) a drink and tried feeling up her leg. He also asked another teenage girl, the friend of a nephew, “Do you want to give me a kiss, baby?” She was extremely distressed. WE never got justice for those things, but I am thinking the tax thing would at least be justice, a la Al Capone.
Any thoughts? Please! I can’t afford an attorney right now and am thinking of writing to the I.R.S. without legal counsel. I know it is risky. I am very nervous.
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Ox Drover says:
Dear Won’tgetfooledagain,
The IRS may very well be helpful to you. There is a thing called “innocent spouse” in cases like his, and you can hopefully get them to see that you were duped and they will excuse you and go after him. I say GO FOR IT ASAP! At this point, if you don’t, he very well may stick you with part or all of HIS TAX BILL….gather up as much information as you can, as much documentation as you can. Write down the names of any customers, get copies of any bank records, business and personal, and go see them. YOU HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE…it could only be a win-win iand I know of several women who were able to get completely off of the tax problems their mates created with illegal business.
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bluejay says:
wontgetfooledagain,
Could you consult with an accountant, getting some guidance, information about how to proceed? Your ex-spath sounds like my ex-spath when it comes to running a business – sloppy, chaotic business practices – these people should not be self-employed. You could go to the IRS website and research the innocent spouse clause. Good luck. Your ex-spath sounds like he deserves some payback in his life, victims getting together, giving him a piece of his own medicine. Pour the trouble on him.
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wontgetfooledagain says:
Thanks so much for the advice. You’ve given me good stuff to think about.
I want my half of the assets, and I do not plan to have that half wiped out by his tax debt. It was a 25 year marriage, after all. Now he acts like I never existed. None of it meant anything. He always just walks away from his destruction.
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Ox Drover says:
Right now with the gov’t needing money they are going after cheats more and more….so gather up as much information and documentation, list of client names and jobs as much as you can, and anything you can show to show how much money he possibly made or where it went, mortgage receipts, anything at all to do with finances while you were married. Good luck, it will take work, but it is the kind of thing that you CAN WIN on! Good luck and God bless (((hugs)))
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wontgetfooledagain says:
I don’t have access to any paperwork, since, as I mentioned, I left home with only a suitcase. It will just have to be my word and then any investigating that the I.R.S. chooses to do.
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wontgetfooledagain says:
And thanks again!!
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