Comments on: Dealing with the root cause of the problem http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/09/18/dealing-with-the-root-cause-of-the-problem/ Wake up to the danger of sociopaths Wed, 08 Feb 2012 07:17:13 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: OxDrover http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/09/18/dealing-with-the-root-cause-of-the-problem/comment-page-3/#comment-65289 OxDrover Fri, 05 Mar 2010 18:01:50 +0000 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/09/18/dealing-with-the-root-cause-of-the-problem/#comment-65289 Dear Silvermoon, I loved your post, and I am glad that you can see the UP side of this dark cloud! If you have been under a great deal of stress, which takes its toll on our bodies and our minds, the best thing I think we can do is to keep the STRESS IN OUR LIVES DOWN to the lowest level possible for a year or two. The hormones released by high stress do a number on our thinking, our ability to heal (our immune systems) and lots of parts of our bodies. Taking time to keep changes to a minimum is the best thing, I think, for ourselves. Avoid anything that will upset us, and that includes ALL people who do not give us peace and love, Like Matt, going through the stress of leaving his long time home (BIG STRESS) and changing jobs (ANOTHER BIG STRESS) he is looking at the BIG picture about "maybe this job won't work out and I might need to come back to my home) so he is place ready to sell, but hanging on to it for a little while longer. He's taking time to spend time with his good friends as well even though he is busy getting ready for the new job and the move. He is already in a good solid relationship, but if he were not,, NOW would NOT be a good time to start one because new relationships are always stressful even if it is "good stress"-- It takes TIME with low stress to over come times of high stress, so we say here BE GOOD TO YOURSELF! Problem is, many of us have never done that, or don't know how, so it is a learning process too! Dear Silvermoon,

I loved your post, and I am glad that you can see the UP side of this dark cloud!

If you have been under a great deal of stress, which takes its toll on our bodies and our minds, the best thing I think we can do is to keep the STRESS IN OUR LIVES DOWN to the lowest level possible for a year or two.

The hormones released by high stress do a number on our thinking, our ability to heal (our immune systems) and lots of parts of our bodies. Taking time to keep changes to a minimum is the best thing, I think, for ourselves. Avoid anything that will upset us, and that includes ALL people who do not give us peace and love,

Like Matt, going through the stress of leaving his long time home (BIG STRESS) and changing jobs (ANOTHER BIG STRESS) he is looking at the BIG picture about “maybe this job won’t work out and I might need to come back to my home) so he is place ready to sell, but hanging on to it for a little while longer. He’s taking time to spend time with his good friends as well even though he is busy getting ready for the new job and the move.

He is already in a good solid relationship, but if he were not,, NOW would NOT be a good time to start one because new relationships are always stressful even if it is “good stress”–

It takes TIME with low stress to over come times of high stress, so we say here BE GOOD TO YOURSELF! Problem is, many of us have never done that, or don’t know how, so it is a learning process too!

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]]> By: silvermoon http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/09/18/dealing-with-the-root-cause-of-the-problem/comment-page-3/#comment-65271 silvermoon Fri, 05 Mar 2010 07:58:04 +0000 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/09/18/dealing-with-the-root-cause-of-the-problem/#comment-65271 I like to think of him as a Dark Angel. The results will ultimately be very good for me even if achieving them came under a less thatn pretty stimulus. He did grant me the favor of it at the expense of my fantasy. We didn't get to the part where he was being mean and I didn't know about all the snealy crap or discover the lies until after he was taken. All in all I am lucky and I can find some gratefulness for what will come of it for me. I hope that it buys him some grace somewhere down the line because I can't fix things for him and I can't go back. I can let go with love and let go so that I can go on. He came into my life for a reason. And his work is done now. Its time for me to let go. I've been through stuff in the last two years that should have killed me stress wise. But you know what they say: He who is born to hang will never drown. Good to be in the pond with all of you! I like to think of him as a Dark Angel.
The results will ultimately be very good for me even if achieving them came under a less thatn pretty stimulus.

He did grant me the favor of it at the expense of my fantasy.

We didn’t get to the part where he was being mean and I didn’t know about all the snealy crap or discover the lies until after he was taken.

All in all I am lucky and I can find some gratefulness for what will come of it for me.

I hope that it buys him some grace somewhere down the line because I can’t fix things for him and I can’t go back.

I can let go with love and let go so that I can go on.
He came into my life for a reason. And his work is done now.

Its time for me to let go.

I’ve been through stuff in the last two years that should have killed me stress wise.

But you know what they say: He who is born to hang will never drown.

Good to be in the pond with all of you!

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]]> By: one_step_at_a_time http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/09/18/dealing-with-the-root-cause-of-the-problem/comment-page-3/#comment-65260 one_step_at_a_time Fri, 05 Mar 2010 03:56:33 +0000 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/09/18/dealing-with-the-root-cause-of-the-problem/#comment-65260 Matt - all best wishes!!! Matt – all best wishes!!!

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]]> By: Matt http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/09/18/dealing-with-the-root-cause-of-the-problem/comment-page-3/#comment-65249 Matt Fri, 05 Mar 2010 02:16:55 +0000 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/09/18/dealing-with-the-root-cause-of-the-problem/#comment-65249 Ms Erin: Loved the story. What I love most about it is how the g-grandmother gave the S a lovely parting gift of "fuck you." How beautifully she executed it. What's S gonna do? Go yell at her gravestone? Been absolutely crazed as I get ready for my move and new job. Painted my place top to bottom in one week. I finally reazlized I was so crazed that I may hold off listing it for a bit, just until I'm sure I'm on steady ground in my new locale. What is it they say the biggest stressors in life are? Job change? Moving? All I know is I"m going through all of them at once. My friends have been wonderful. Everybody has been taking me out for drinks, lunch and dinner. I am having a hard time with the concept of moving from my home of 24 years - NYC. But, it is a great job. Anyhow, back to filling out the 10 thousand forms my new employer wants me to fill out before Monday. Ms Erin:

Loved the story. What I love most about it is how the g-grandmother gave the S a lovely parting gift of “fuck you.” How beautifully she executed it. What’s S gonna do? Go yell at her gravestone?

Been absolutely crazed as I get ready for my move and new job. Painted my place top to bottom in one week. I finally reazlized I was so crazed that I may hold off listing it for a bit, just until I’m sure I’m on steady ground in my new locale. What is it they say the biggest stressors in life are? Job change? Moving? All I know is I”m going through all of them at once.

My friends have been wonderful. Everybody has been taking me out for drinks, lunch and dinner. I am having a hard time with the concept of moving from my home of 24 years – NYC. But, it is a great job. Anyhow, back to filling out the 10 thousand forms my new employer wants me to fill out before Monday.

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]]> By: OxDrover http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/09/18/dealing-with-the-root-cause-of-the-problem/comment-page-3/#comment-65213 OxDrover Thu, 04 Mar 2010 17:35:56 +0000 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/09/18/dealing-with-the-root-cause-of-the-problem/#comment-65213 Dear Erin, Well, I'm glad that your kids were given some inheritence from the g-grandmother. Apparently, the old lady "got" something or she would have left it to her grandson the kids' sperm donor. So you might consider that too. Glad that Uncle X did sort of get it too. Yea, that family will LIVE in turmoil forever, just like your bio-family will. So there's no need for us to heap vengence upon their heads, they are their own worst enemies. Congratulations! To both you and your kids. Dear Erin,

Well, I’m glad that your kids were given some inheritence from the g-grandmother. Apparently, the old lady “got” something or she would have left it to her grandson the kids’ sperm donor. So you might consider that too.

Glad that Uncle X did sort of get it too. Yea, that family will LIVE in turmoil forever, just like your bio-family will. So there’s no need for us to heap vengence upon their heads, they are their own worst enemies.

Congratulations! To both you and your kids.

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]]> By: ErinBrock http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/09/18/dealing-with-the-root-cause-of-the-problem/comment-page-3/#comment-65202 ErinBrock Thu, 04 Mar 2010 07:42:02 +0000 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/09/18/dealing-with-the-root-cause-of-the-problem/#comment-65202 I told the kids tonight that Uncle X had called.....various reactions....all negative.... I said....whoa...hold your thoughts kiddo's.... One said....oh, what, they said sorry, they love us and your sucked back in and we have to go visit......helllooooo Mom.... I said NO.....but I did get a chance to speak a bit of my peace... AND.....he asked! I said....he had a reason for his call...... they wouldn't shut up......each making a negative comment..... so I just sat there.....finally, one said....okay.....tell us....why he called? I said.....Your grandmother left you some money...... Oh...ya oughta see the reaction then..... They said....but do we have to go down and pick it up? I said,No....he's mailing it...... One said.....I don't care.....hmmmmm but I do need a car.....it seems sad that I care if it's money.......can i turn it down.... I said NO....your Grandmother wanted you guys to have it....it was her wishes...... VAPOR LOCK MoNEY.....are you nuts!!!! They said.......so does this mean S get's money too......I said.....well actually, YOU ALL GET HIS SHARE!!!! Oh, the looks on that...It was priceless!!!! Laughter erupted! THey know when he finds out he's gonna be pissed his snot nose brats are getting something he feels entitled to...... Yeah.....with the Uncle.....I never went into the Sociopathic speal......I knew I'd lose him.....I had to take it 'gentle' as to be heard and didn't want to come off as bitter, more indifferent about the S and concentrated on the kids.......if I ever see him down the road......that'll be a conversation for later......I'll let him read my book! Timing is everything!!! Oh.......the reason the Uncle called ME was because he knew I would handle the money in a responsible fashion as the G. parents wanted for the kids...... Shit.....they are his kids and it's HIS family......why wouldn't he have been the contact??? BECAUSE THEY KNEW/KNOW!!!!! No......they contact the ex wife!!! MOI! Oh......don't think it won't be 'fed' throughout the family, brother will tell him, because the S's roll was mudslinger....they would all go to him and complain about each other and he would go and 'stand up' for whoever dujour sent him........and his dickwad/whipped/brainwashed brother.....who tried to proxy alienate me from MIL......fuck him......he's gonna have to be a bigger babysitter than he knows of.....and don't think he won't be on the wrath end of S's attack mode again....one day....... Oh, this is classssiiiic! HA! I told the kids tonight that Uncle X had called…..various reactions….all negative….
I said….whoa…hold your thoughts kiddo’s….
One said….oh, what, they said sorry, they love us and your sucked back in and we have to go visit……helllooooo Mom….
I said NO…..but I did get a chance to speak a bit of my peace…
AND…..he asked!
I said….he had a reason for his call……
they wouldn’t shut up……each making a negative comment…..
so I just sat there…..finally, one said….okay…..tell us….why he called?
I said…..Your grandmother left you some money……
Oh…ya oughta see the reaction then…..
They said….but do we have to go down and pick it up? I said,No….he’s mailing it……
One said…..I don’t care…..hmmmmm but I do need a car…..it seems sad that I care if it’s money…….can i turn it down….
I said NO….your Grandmother wanted you guys to have it….it was her wishes……
VAPOR LOCK MoNEY…..are you nuts!!!!

They said…….so does this mean S get’s money too……I said…..well actually, YOU ALL GET HIS SHARE!!!!

Oh, the looks on that…It was priceless!!!!
Laughter erupted! THey know when he finds out he’s gonna be pissed his snot nose brats are getting something he feels entitled to……

Yeah…..with the Uncle…..I never went into the Sociopathic speal……I knew I’d lose him…..I had to take it ‘gentle’ as to be heard and didn’t want to come off as bitter, more indifferent about the S and concentrated on the kids…….if I ever see him down the road……that’ll be a conversation for later……I’ll let him read my book!

Timing is everything!!!

Oh…….the reason the Uncle called ME was because he knew I would handle the money in a responsible fashion as the G. parents wanted for the kids……
Shit…..they are his kids and it’s HIS family……why wouldn’t he have been the contact???
BECAUSE THEY KNEW/KNOW!!!!!
No……they contact the ex wife!!! MOI!
Oh……don’t think it won’t be ‘fed’ throughout the family, brother will tell him, because the S’s roll was mudslinger….they would all go to him and complain about each other and he would go and ‘stand up’ for whoever dujour sent him……..and his dickwad/whipped/brainwashed brother…..who tried to proxy alienate me from MIL……fuck him……he’s gonna have to be a bigger babysitter than he knows of…..and don’t think he won’t be on the wrath end of S’s attack mode again….one day…….

Oh, this is classssiiiic!
HA!

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]]> By: shabbychic http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/09/18/dealing-with-the-root-cause-of-the-problem/comment-page-3/#comment-65200 shabbychic Thu, 04 Mar 2010 06:34:15 +0000 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/09/18/dealing-with-the-root-cause-of-the-problem/#comment-65200 EB, I am so glad you felt validated, finally, by someone in S's family!!!! Great that you were able to at least give the simple version to the uncle. I have a big snicker for your kids! This is so coooooooooool !!!! HAHA to the S. Oh, last night when I read what your son said "poof... vapor locked!" my very first thought about this was: somebody's been playing video games!! Typical kid!! Wouldn't that be great if we could go through life and just zap assclowns off the face of the earth?!! Yeah! EB, I am so glad you felt validated, finally, by someone in S’s family!!!! Great that you were able to at least give the simple version to the uncle. I have a big snicker for your kids! This is so coooooooooool !!!! HAHA to the S.

Oh, last night when I read what your son said “poof… vapor locked!” my very first thought about this was: somebody’s been playing video games!! Typical kid!! Wouldn’t that be great if we could go through life and just zap assclowns off the face of the earth?!! Yeah!

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]]> By: ErinBrock http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/09/18/dealing-with-the-root-cause-of-the-problem/comment-page-3/#comment-65198 ErinBrock Thu, 04 Mar 2010 05:13:34 +0000 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/09/18/dealing-with-the-root-cause-of-the-problem/#comment-65198 I need to let that weight just fall......BOOM.... What made me sad about my sons comments was just how 'normal' and 'everyday' he views this..... I didn't want my kids to be abandoned by ANYONE let alone family and take it so cavelier.....but this is all they have known really.....S has always disposed of people.... I got a very interesting call today..... From S's uncle.....he basically raised the S.....they used to be very close until uncle met wife.....kids...yada....no longer the cool single uncle.....and pulled away into his new life....S resented him....his wife, his kids... S always resented his 'change' in growing up.....they are about 13 years apart.... Uncle has always had respect for me....I've never done anything but been there for them....and his parents....(S's G. parents.) We have had unlimited business minded conversations....deep, intelectual, power meeting type conversations.....brain storming etc.... the S is an idiot with no vocabulary and no sense.....so all he could talk about was skunk bud etc....His family respected my intelect.... Would call me to bounce off ideas....the S hated this....IT"S MY FAMILY! So...he was calling to get our address....Grama passed away last week and left a little something for the G. kids.... Funny thing was.....my kids are her great g. kids.....and they get their fathers 'share'.....he get's nothing! He always considered himself their favorite g. son....he gloated about this.... HA! Uncle asks how we are and I said GREAT....In my happiest,smiley mentrual voice! :) He says ....how's the kids....(remember, the kids NONE of S's family has anything to do with these days)....I said....it's been a struggle for them..... They want nothing to do with their father...and haven't spoken to him in 2 years....and dont plan on it....he's out of their lives... He asks.....EB....WHAT HAPPENED?????..... I gave him the simple version......S's whole life has been a lie and I needed to protect my kids....as their parent. He's NOT the person he's portrayed to ALL of us! He's NONE of that person. I had to protect my kids. He goes on to say.....S is an angry person..... I guess he's mad at me now, why I'm not sure.... but he's not speaking to me..... He's got real problems. I simply said......count your blessings! I said the real problems lie within him.....but he is not cabable of taking responsibility....he will push blame and deflect onto others.... I loved that man and you know, I gave him my best, I tried to build a family.....but HE"S GOT DEMONS!!! I said, he continues the cycle of his mother/your sister....with his kids.....yet with abuse! Each generation adds their own signiture to their abandonment. I'm trying to give my kids a healthy environment..... I said it was a shame that none of them are in contact with the kids.....me aside....what about the kids? It was an interesting coversation, he asked , he listened....it was very simple.....but I hung up feeling like 'he knew'....... I felt a validation....and certainly a little snicker for the kids.....getting the s's share of the ship he spent his life waiting for to come in to HIS harbor..... It was a 'nice way' to start the day!!! Thanks guys....your really angels!!! I need to let that weight just fall……BOOM….

What made me sad about my sons comments was just how ‘normal’ and ‘everyday’ he views this…..
I didn’t want my kids to be abandoned by ANYONE let alone family and take it so cavelier…..but this is all they have known really…..S has always disposed of people….

I got a very interesting call today…..
From S’s uncle…..he basically raised the S…..they used to be very close until uncle met wife…..kids…yada….no longer the cool single uncle…..and pulled away into his new life….S resented him….his wife, his kids…
S always resented his ‘change’ in growing up…..they are about 13 years apart….
Uncle has always had respect for me….I’ve never done anything but been there for them….and his parents….(S’s G. parents.) We have had unlimited business minded conversations….deep, intelectual, power meeting type conversations…..brain storming etc…. the S is an idiot with no vocabulary and no sense…..so all he could talk about was skunk bud etc….His family respected my intelect….
Would call me to bounce off ideas….the S hated this….IT”S MY FAMILY!
So…he was calling to get our address….Grama passed away last week and left a little something for the G. kids….
Funny thing was…..my kids are her great g. kids…..and they get their fathers ‘share’…..he get’s nothing! He always considered himself their favorite g. son….he gloated about this….
HA!
Uncle asks how we are and I said GREAT….In my happiest,smiley mentrual voice! :)
He says ….how’s the kids….(remember, the kids NONE of S’s family has anything to do with these days)….I said….it’s been a struggle for them…..
They want nothing to do with their father…and haven’t spoken to him in 2 years….and dont plan on it….he’s out of their lives…
He asks…..EB….WHAT HAPPENED?????…..
I gave him the simple version……S’s whole life has been a lie and I needed to protect my kids….as their parent. He’s NOT the person he’s portrayed to ALL of us! He’s NONE of that person. I had to protect my kids.

He goes on to say…..S is an angry person…..
I guess he’s mad at me now, why I’m not sure….
but he’s not speaking to me…..
He’s got real problems.

I simply said……count your blessings!

I said the real problems lie within him…..but he is not cabable of taking responsibility….he will push blame and deflect onto others….
I loved that man and you know, I gave him my best, I tried to build a family…..but HE”S GOT DEMONS!!!
I said, he continues the cycle of his mother/your sister….with his kids…..yet with abuse!
Each generation adds their own signiture to their abandonment.
I’m trying to give my kids a healthy environment…..

I said it was a shame that none of them are in contact with the kids…..me aside….what about the kids?

It was an interesting coversation, he asked , he listened….it was very simple…..but I hung up feeling like ‘he knew’…….
I felt a validation….and certainly a little snicker for the kids…..getting the s’s share of the ship he spent his life waiting for to come in to HIS harbor…..

It was a ‘nice way’ to start the day!!!

Thanks guys….your really angels!!!

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]]> By: one_step_at_a_time http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/09/18/dealing-with-the-root-cause-of-the-problem/comment-page-3/#comment-65190 one_step_at_a_time Thu, 04 Mar 2010 03:47:30 +0000 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/09/18/dealing-with-the-root-cause-of-the-problem/#comment-65190 hi erin, read your above posts about your son and your parents. your son is young. he doesn't know some things yet. check in when he is your age and see if he thinks family is so disposable and vapor locking so easy. k? he's young. as we get older - as i get older, deal with more illness and difficulty, i mourn more the bs family i have. i was walking home today and a car went past - thought it was my folks - i turned my head to see if it was - and it was like a stop frame movie....daughter on the side of the road, parents a million miles away in another universe, driving past. it was odd. but i was okay. they is toxic and i don't need it. i kicked my sister last fall too. nc with her since july or august. dad since november. i don't really want to be nc with mom - she is ill, she can't help her toxicity, but i can't communicate with his holiness at all, and would have to to talk to her. i am sorry your family were not there for you - in any way. it is so obvious when we are sick. when i was staying with my folks and taking care of my mom i hemorrhaged. ended up in hospital having a transfusion - my father was packing to go away for the winter - could leave anytime - i called a friend to come get me and take me to the hospital. and dad didn't even inquire if i needed his help in any way. i was sitting there all bundled up waiting for my friend and he sat there complaining about my poor demented mom not packing quick enough. fucking N. this is a tiny example...nothing like the sort of drawn out experience you had with c, but i felt the searing and severing of it. and now your folks have the audacity to complain about your A&U. fuuuuuck. eb - i know it will hurt like hell to let that hope and desire for family fall to dust. but you are strong and letting them out of your life will make your heart safer, oh warrior queen. i wonder what is in store for us, when we let these things go that we want so much, that are only shells, shadows of what we really deserve. what comes to us then? who do we become, we parentless women? real? do we become real by getting real? if we are not using our energy to hold up a shell, fill it for them and us.....if we let these things go, what will we be? love one step hi erin,
read your above posts about your son and your parents.

your son is young. he doesn’t know some things yet. check in when he is your age and see if he thinks family is so disposable and vapor locking so easy. k? he’s young.

as we get older – as i get older, deal with more illness and difficulty, i mourn more the bs family i have.

i was walking home today and a car went past – thought it was my folks – i turned my head to see if it was – and it was like a stop frame movie….daughter on the side of the road, parents a million miles away in another universe, driving past. it was odd. but i was okay. they is toxic and i don’t need it.

i kicked my sister last fall too. nc with her since july or august. dad since november. i don’t really want to be nc with mom – she is ill, she can’t help her toxicity, but i can’t communicate with his holiness at all, and would have to to talk to her.

i am sorry your family were not there for you – in any way. it is so obvious when we are sick. when i was staying with my folks and taking care of my mom i hemorrhaged. ended up in hospital having a transfusion – my father was packing to go away for the winter – could leave anytime – i called a friend to come get me and take me to the hospital. and dad didn’t even inquire if i needed his help in any way. i was sitting there all bundled up waiting for my friend and he sat there complaining about my poor demented mom not packing quick enough. fucking N. this is a tiny example…nothing like the sort of drawn out experience you had with c, but i felt the searing and severing of it.

and now your folks have the audacity to complain about your A&U. fuuuuuck.

eb – i know it will hurt like hell to let that hope and desire for family fall to dust. but you are strong and letting them out of your life will make your heart safer, oh warrior queen.

i wonder what is in store for us, when we let these things go that we want so much, that are only shells, shadows of what we really deserve. what comes to us then? who do we become, we parentless women? real? do we become real by getting real? if we are not using our energy to hold up a shell, fill it for them and us…..if we let these things go, what will we be?

love one step

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]]> By: OxDrover http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/09/18/dealing-with-the-root-cause-of-the-problem/comment-page-3/#comment-65174 OxDrover Wed, 03 Mar 2010 23:16:45 +0000 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/09/18/dealing-with-the-root-cause-of-the-problem/#comment-65174 Dear EB, I was raised that "family is EVERYTHING" and that protecing the public image of the family is EVERYTHING and that we had to do whatever it took to protect that image no matter what. That family could crap on you, and you could not even resent it or get angry without risking "GOING TO HELL!" That this angry god who knew all your thoughts would ZAP ya if you even THOUGHT anything different. You had to NOT QUESTION this---OR ELSE. There were times when I was SOOOO angry withh my egg donor that I would refuse to speak to her for months or years, like when she let my P son come to live at her house to "give him another chance" because (supposedly) I wasn't a good parent and SHE was wiser. She took over my child against my will and let him do things I thought were BAD. I didn't talk to her for a long time, but then.....well, I got sucked back into her and his web when the cops got on to him up close to her house and were about to arrest him for stealing, so he decided he needed to "come back home"---well, that peace didn't last long, and she and I were both then in the same "camp" trying to save him when he got in trouble with the law in Florida, she even came down there to try to talk some sense into him. NO AVAIL. BUT it NEVER EVEN CROSSED MY MIND that I didn't have to have any contact with her, that I could DIVORCE HER! I look back now and I see lots of times I had plenty of "justification" to divorce her, just like a cheating husband that did it over and over and over---same with P-son, and each time I would "forgive and forget" and go on playing "let's pretend we are a nice normal family" and keeping the FAMILY SECRETS from everyone outside the family. Up to 15 years after P-son committed murder when WE were preparijng to help him get out on parole and come "home" we had to admit it to a few closer friends to get them to write letters to the parole board "vouching" for the fact we were a "NICE NORMAL FAMILY" who would give him the support he needed to live a God-fearing, law-abiding life on parole. Even some of egg donor's "closest" friends though (like the Minister I talked to later to no avail) were NOT told that P-son was a murderer, or even that he had been in prison for 15 years (this time) Keep that "dirty linen" hidden, pretend everything is lovely! I can't believe I bought into that crap. Your parents, in my humble, or not-so-humble, opinion, are just pretending that THEY ARE "Loving parents" to you, a troublesome child. It is all about their DELUSIONS that THEY are GOOD PARENTS. Not that you deserve loving parents, because they are NOT loving parents. It is all a pretense on THEIR part, and if you have contact with them, they can DELUDE themselves. YOU are the problem, not them, of course in THEIR view. If they were not good parents to you, what makes you think for one minute that they are good grandparents to your children? That's the hard thing to grasp! It is against everything we have been told or taught about "loyalty" and "blood" and all that crap! All those FALSE assumptions we go on and can't figure out why it doesn't work. Well, we HAVE finally figured out that it is NOT us, and we cannot change THEM, so something has to give. We either have to go on accepting villification or choking down what we know is the truth and pretending it isn't the truth, and continue to feel bad. I vote we kick'em all to the curb. If it isn't a GOOD healthy relationship why on God's green earth do we NEED it? I vote we don't need it. Just MHO. ((((Hugs)))) and God bless. Dear EB,

I was raised that “family is EVERYTHING” and that protecing the public image of the family is EVERYTHING and that we had to do whatever it took to protect that image no matter what. That family could crap on you, and you could not even resent it or get angry without risking “GOING TO HELL!” That this angry god who knew all your thoughts would ZAP ya if you even THOUGHT anything different. You had to NOT QUESTION this—OR ELSE.

There were times when I was SOOOO angry withh my egg donor that I would refuse to speak to her for months or years, like when she let my P son come to live at her house to “give him another chance” because (supposedly) I wasn’t a good parent and SHE was wiser. She took over my child against my will and let him do things I thought were BAD.

I didn’t talk to her for a long time, but then…..well, I got sucked back into her and his web when the cops got on to him up close to her house and were about to arrest him for stealing, so he decided he needed to “come back home”—well, that peace didn’t last long, and she and I were both then in the same “camp” trying to save him when he got in trouble with the law in Florida, she even came down there to try to talk some sense into him. NO AVAIL.

BUT it NEVER EVEN CROSSED MY MIND that I didn’t have to have any contact with her, that I could DIVORCE HER!

I look back now and I see lots of times I had plenty of “justification” to divorce her, just like a cheating husband that did it over and over and over—same with P-son, and each time I would “forgive and forget” and go on playing “let’s pretend we are a nice normal family” and keeping the FAMILY SECRETS from everyone outside the family. Up to 15 years after P-son committed murder when WE were preparijng to help him get out on parole and come “home” we had to admit it to a few closer friends to get them to write letters to the parole board “vouching” for the fact we were a “NICE NORMAL FAMILY” who would give him the support he needed to live a God-fearing, law-abiding life on parole. Even some of egg donor’s “closest” friends though (like the Minister I talked to later to no avail) were NOT told that P-son was a murderer, or even that he had been in prison for 15 years (this time)

Keep that “dirty linen” hidden, pretend everything is lovely! I can’t believe I bought into that crap.

Your parents, in my humble, or not-so-humble, opinion, are just pretending that THEY ARE “Loving parents” to you, a troublesome child. It is all about their DELUSIONS that THEY are GOOD PARENTS. Not that you deserve loving parents, because they are NOT loving parents. It is all a pretense on THEIR part, and if you have contact with them, they can DELUDE themselves. YOU are the problem, not them, of course in THEIR view.

If they were not good parents to you, what makes you think for one minute that they are good grandparents to your children?

That’s the hard thing to grasp! It is against everything we have been told or taught about “loyalty” and “blood” and all that crap! All those FALSE assumptions we go on and can’t figure out why it doesn’t work. Well, we HAVE finally figured out that it is NOT us, and we cannot change THEM, so something has to give. We either have to go on accepting villification or choking down what we know is the truth and pretending it isn’t the truth, and continue to feel bad. I vote we kick’em all to the curb. If it isn’t a GOOD healthy relationship why on God’s green earth do we NEED it? I vote we don’t need it. Just MHO. ((((Hugs)))) and God bless.

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