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Dealing with the root cause of the problem
By Ox Drover
One of the first things I learned in nursing school was to correctly diagnose the problem before trying to fix it. I wish I had applied this lesson to my own personal life as well as I applied it to my professional life.
We were taught that when there was a perceived need, for example, when the patient was feeling short of breath, to assess why the patient might be feeling short of breath. Was the airway obstructed? If the airway was clear, then what was another likely cause of the problem? Sometimes a patient who is very anxious will feel very short of breath when they are actually getting plenty of oxygen, (as measured by a “pulse ox”—a little gismo that you clip on the patient’s finger and it tells you how much oxygen is in the patient’s blood). Or they will say “I can’t breathe!” when they really mean, “My nose is stopped up.” (If they are talking, they are breathing!)
So I was trained to look at and evaluate the situation, and only then to start to evaluate a plan. Once I had a plan, I was trained to carry that plan out, and to reassess if the plan was helping or not. Just good common sense.
Sometimes victims feel a perceived need; they feel that something is wrong with them. They are “hurting” and unhappy, but they aren’t sure what the problem is, or what is causing the pain and unhappiness. I have been in that same situation; I was hurting from my relationship with the disordered personalities around me. I had a need for love, I had a need for caring from those whom I cared about, but my need was not being met, therefore I felt “short of breath” but didn’t know what was causing my feeling of “suffocating.”
In my pain, in my lack of “oxygen,” I tried everything I could think of, almost at random, and nothing seemed to make me feel any better. I kept suffocating and like a person drowning, I flailed my arms at anything that floated by that might give me support.
I begged my abusers to help me, told them how I was suffering and suffocating, but though they told me they loved me, and I wanted to believe they loved me, their attempts to explain my pain as my own fault didn’t help me. I tried the things they suggested, but nothing worked. No matter how I tried to please them, I always failed.
The punishments they inflicted on me for my failures didn’t make me feel any better either, and I continued to spiral downward until I was critically ill. Still they didn’t seem to perceive how I suffered, or lend me any support.
One day, when I was critically ill, totally beaten down, with barely an emotional “pulse” and in more pain than I had ever imagined was possible, I realized I had not been using “common sense” to stop my downward spiral. I realized the only way I could stop the pain, stop the progression of my life’s downward spiral, was to use the good sense to diagnose the real problem before I started to fix it.
If a patient had come to me and said, “My foot hurts,” I would have looked at the foot and if I saw a thorn, I would not have said “well, let’s give you a pain killer to help your pain.” I would have removed the thorn, the obvious cause of the problem, before doing anything else. If the problem had not been so obvious, if perhaps the foot was tender, red and swollen, I might have taken a blood test to see if there was an infection. I would have asked if the patient had a thorn in there a few days ago, or if they had fallen, or dropped something on it. I would have worked my way down a list of questions that would have helped me get to the real cause of the problem. I would not have just thrown medication at them without knowing what the real problem was.
Why did I try to fix my own pain without finding out what the root cause was? How did I think the “shot gun” approach of just “shooting off in some direction” was going to help me to feel better, to get my life back on track?
Once I backed off and looked at specifics, looked at what the pain was, and what was causing the pain, and realized that as long as I did not take care of the root cause, did not remove the “thorn” from my foot, all the antibiotics in the world would not cure the problem, all the pain killers in the world would not stop the pain. The problem would continue to get worse if I did not take care of the cause of the problem and remove from my life the things (and people) who were inflicting the pain upon me, the infection that was killing me by inches.
Sometimes, the “cure” for our pain involves very extensive “surgery” to remove toxic and malignant “tumors” from ourselves, it might even involve “amputating” someone who is so dear to us we can’t imagine going through life without that person. I had to “amputate” my psychopathic son, and my enabling mother, both of which were traumatic operations for me, and for a while made me feel as if I had no legs, and couldn’t walk ever again. I have found though, like the Bible says, “If thy hand offend then, cut it off” is pretty radical but good advice, and sometimes cutting off a member of our emotional “bodies” is the only way to survive.
Surgery and medical treatment is sometimes painful, and we may want to delay “treatment” because of that potential pain, but I am here to “testify” that life without the malignant people is much, much better!
written by Donna Andersen • Permalink •
justabouthealed says:
Wow Oxy, I love this! So right on. The Betrayal Bond book says that getting new and good analogies is critical for our healing, and this blog is a wonderful analogy to spur true healing. I love it. I also love this phrase:
it might even involve “amputating” someone who is so dear to us we can’t imagine going through life without that person.
That is exactly it….but get rid of that thorn!! And sometimes amputation is the ONLY way.
thank you, great, great post!
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Friday, 18 September 2009 @ 11:05am
skylar says:
Thanks Oxy for reminding me to look for the source of the pain. The sooner you remove it, the less damage it will cause in the long run. For those of us who let the wound fester for so many years, we now have to deal with a long standing INFECTION of toxicity. Furthermore that wound has caused us to compensate in other ways to continue living with the source of the wound. Now we have so much time and energy invested in that lifestyle, that way of thinking, that we just can’t give it up so easily.
In my case I got my first wound from my parents and my immune system reacted to it. I must’ve been walking with a limp because the xP zoomed right in on the walking wounded and inserted another thorm. When I got the next wound, I didn’t even feel it because I was accustomed to that pain. My immune system took a hit, I walked even more crooked but I couldn’t figure out what was causing the disability. I tried to figure it out but all I could do was apply bandaids to try to stop the pain. I tried diet, exercise, herbs, vitamins, volunteering, praying. All of these were crutches to help me continue suffering with the wounds. Finally, I saw the thorn. When I pulled it out, I saw the original thorn – my family abuse. But now my immune system is all wound up, I’ve been walking crooked for years, I didn’t invest in a way of thinking healthy only ways of compensating for illness. I really don’t know how to think healthy.
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Friday, 18 September 2009 @ 11:40am
OxDrover says:
Dear Skylar,
We have to learn new ways of coping, new ways of thinking, new ways of living, just like a person who has had a REAL amputation must learn to walk again with only one leg, or a person with only one hand has to learn to button their shirts, but if you take into consideration that the PAIN IS GONE it is much easier to go through life with “one leg” than two legs when one of them is so infected that it is literally killing the rest of you.
When I amputated my egg donor and my P-son, I felt like I had NO legs, but as the pain and infection of my soul stopped hurting me, I realized just how much better off I was, and I am learning now to not only WALK but to RUN, JUMP and PLAY and enjoy life! In many ways, better than I ever had before! Keep on working on learning to live again! It is WORTH IT!
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Friday, 18 September 2009 @ 2:13pm
ANewLily says:
Thanks, Ocy, for this timely article!
I have known quite awhile that the “root” of most of my problems is “not wanting to hurt others’ feelings” to my own detriment.
This week’s experiences has brought it straight home to me! I won’t repeat all the details because I lost them to cyberspace when I sought to preview it to make spelling corrections.
Instead, I will share that on Tuesday, I was in the office of a surgeon and I felt SO uncomfortable with him. Later in the day, I assessed that the instinct was due to the fact that I had been in the presence of a S/P/N. Hurrah, I could recognize one!!
Thus, began the search for another surgeon! I need one but not a personality disordered one no matter how competent his skills are (Afterall, my doctor EX was skilled in his field!)
Second, I recognized that I didn’t know how to “fire” this particular surgeon without hurting his feelings.
Longer story, but a few minutes ago, my gastroenterlogist called to check up on me and I confessed my fault of “not wanting to hurt others’ feelings to my detriment.” and what should I do?!!
He said “I think this is why we bonded on first meeting. Not wanting to hurt others’ feelings” leading to difficulties for me is my greatest fault, too!! I UNDERSTAND!”
Upshot: He found me another surgeon and I have an appointment already for next Monday in a different clinic!.
The sideline is that yesterday I shared with my gynocologist my concern and he had suggested another surgeon and got me into that surgeon for this afternoon!
Lo and behold, about an hour ago, the first surgeon called me and asked what HE did wrong. Turns out that “new” surgeon was in his SAME clinic.
Not wanting to “hurt his feelings” by telling him the truth, I just changed the subject and asked him about other matters! (Manipulation on my part? LOL! Or was it cowardice?)
Anyway, I rejoice that I honored my instincts and recognized AGAIN how trying to avoid hurting others’ feelings only brings ME upset!!
Am I healing??
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Friday, 18 September 2009 @ 4:34pm
OxDrover says:
Dear Lily,
I laughed at your telling about your insitincts and not wanting an N or P surgeon! I seem to find that the best “knife men” are ALL very narcissistic! LOL I used to joke with a physician friend of mine about if only Ns could become neurosurgeons or if becoming an neurosurgeon MADE YOU A HORSE’S BUTT! LOL
But, that said, I agree with you. My husband had surgery on his nose and soft palate and decided to do a “freebie” and give my husband a “nose job” (he had a very large nose) and MESSED IT UP BIG TIME. It so happened that this “hot shot” surgeon was working as an employee of a friend of ours who was a Ear Nose and Throat doctor as well, and we ended up getting him fired from his JOB as well as firing him as my husband’s surgeon. It wasn’t the bad nose job that was the worst problem but the haughty way he treated patients and how he bragged on himself all the time, treated office staff badly etc. He ended up going across town and settin gup his own practice, but I still steer patients away from him if I can.
I think you have EVERY right to pick a physician with whom you are comfortable. Now, if he was an N and you “hurt his feelings” TOO BAD, if he was not an N and really wanted to know what was wrong, TELLING HIM THE TRUTH, “your bedside manner lacked warmth” will HELP him be a better physician. So TELL THE TRUTH!!!!
And yes, my dear dear Lily, you ARE healing! You have made so much progress in the last couple of years that I feel like God has listened to my prayers for you and answered every one of them!!!! You know JUST how special you are to me, and how you are in my thoughts and prayers night and day! When the “night” of our pain was totally BLACK, you and I have held hands and “whistled” as we walked along and given each other courage to keep on going when there was no one else there but the two of us it seemed, but we both always knew that God was there with us in the dark. Keep your faith strong, Lily, and remember that “ALL things work together for Good to those that love God” and I know that you do, so I am holding you firmly in my heart! ((((hugs)))))
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Friday, 18 September 2009 @ 4:49pm
blueskies says:
Timely post (again) for me to Oxy xxx I am about halfway through (I said I was a slow reader;) “children of the self absorbed” and I am finding it extremely helpful. Your post here really ties in with it for me.I really feel slowly reading through the book and going through the exercises, is helping me in dealing with the ‘root cause’, and giving me a lot to think about (outside of the immediate pain) good stuff to work through.xxx
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Friday, 18 September 2009 @ 6:09pm
OxDrover says:
Dear Blueskies,
Well, for what it is worth, I hope it makes you feel some better to realize that I have been putting emotional “band aids” on top of my “thorns” for 60+ years and wondering why I didn’t get better! LOL!
The reason I am so good at telling people what NOT to do is that I have tried every wrong thing to do there is! LOL (((hugs))))
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Friday, 18 September 2009 @ 7:01pm
shabbychic says:
I’m just having a hard time with all this, I’m my own thorn. I won’t go into my pity party again, although I would love to!! LOL. I just erased about 3 paragraphs of my pathetic crapola. I need an iron skillet attitude adjustment.
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Friday, 18 September 2009 @ 10:37pm
shabbychic says:
or a cast iron attitude adjustment…
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Friday, 18 September 2009 @ 10:52pm
geminigirl says:
Dear Oxy. your into letter to this subject was spot on as usual, marvellous. You are such a shining light, a role model for those of us still struggling to make sense of what we have allowed to happen to us for in some cases, years and years! In my case my Mum was, I think, a Narc and emotionally unstable, suffered from depression, as a small child I always felt Iit was my job to keep her happy and that if she was miserable, it was my fault.I was an absolute set up for the narcs and sociopaths in my life. Years and years of gaslighting from my ex and both my teenage daughters,{before I even KNEW about gaslighting, had me doubting my sanity! }I am learning so much from all you guys,so fast, I am trying to process it all, and deal with the feelings Ive squelched down for years and years, such as huge anger,{at myself too,} acute pain, regeret, grief, that Ive lost my girls,sadness,bargaining, all the stages of grief that Kubler -Ross describes. Oxy you are a legend, I see you as a cross between DOn Quixote on fat ass, and the British Queen{pre roman landing in britain,} Boadicea, riding her chariot, with huge spikes on the wheel axles, her shield and spear at the ready! You are also the Queen of metaphor and make everything so easy to understand.Maybe youve gone thru all of this pain to be a shining light for all of us here on LF!
Thanks again dearest Oxy, more power to your skillet wielding arm, I know its all done in Love, it shines through!!
Gem.XX
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Friday, 18 September 2009 @ 10:56pm
skylar says:
SC, if you can’t spill your pathetic crapola here, then where?
Do what ever you need to help you heal. Otherwise you’ll keep it inside and we know that’s not good for you.
LF is a really good balance of whining and supporting.
We need both.
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Friday, 18 September 2009 @ 11:39pm
shabbychic says:
sky, um, that would be NOwhere!! I’m sure I’ll write another one of my whining pathetic crapola posts soon! I’m feeling a little bit self-absorbed tonight, I don’t want to wallow in my misery, trying to fight it, it’s a daily battle, I want to control my thoughts! NO MORE NEGATIVE THOUGHTS! I’m screaming at myself. I have to get up at the crack of dawn so I took my Ativan, maybe that will help! LOL I’ll just pass out, but I think I don’t dream because of this medication. When my sister and I spent the night at my mom’s house (my mom passed on) my sister left all the lights on and the TV on when she went to bed because she said “you are stoned on Ativan & in the guest room with the door shut, you won’t hear me if something happens” HA HA, stoned, I wish.
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Friday, 18 September 2009 @ 11:57pm
skylar says:
SC,
Well I wallowed today, hopefully I’ll gain insight from it.
I also went to the acupuncture but my favorite lady, Serina, moved to the bahamas and they have new people who are not as good. So it didn’t seem to help.
Broke down crying twice during the treatment and several times at home, but they were just quick crying spells.
It’s very strange for me to cry like this because I always felt so stoic before. Only the very worst fights would make me cry. The last few years though, as the shit was hitting the fan, more and more often, I noticed that the frequency of crying spells was up. I usually cry when I fantasize about “fixing” my P and knowing how very unlikely it is. But during today’s crying, I also realized something else: i don’t think I want him back. I just want him to be well, to stop being evil and to tie up the sad history we had.
I kept thinking, if he would be normal, would i want him? Maybe, but not very enthusiastically. I think I’d rather be with someone else. It’s strange to admit it.
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Saturday, 19 September 2009 @ 12:16am
teacher123 says:
What is weird is that I went through all of this without knowing what I was doing. I could feel the hate of a group of my coworkers and my N boss who did their best to run me out. They ignored me, put me down, and made me feel like they were going to stab me with their steely knives, and leave me for dead. It felt like I was in the Hotel California, so I made a decision to change schools going from 8th grade to 5th grade which is a pretty big change. Removing myself from those who were N or controlled by the N who accused me has been the best thing ever. About a week ago I got the pleasure of attending a ceremony honoring my new school which made the “Recognized” status in our State. My old school which was recognized fell from that status to being acceptable, and it was primarily because of the Science scores in both cases. I teach Science. Any way I could go on and on about all of this, but I did reach an all time low when I was accused of harassment, but looking back I was still nice to those people even asking how the N was who left me for dead, being nice to the one who accused me all year. Prayer helped me come through all of this, and things have really turned around for me after removing myself from that situation. What I have a hard time with is realizing my involvement in all of that to begin with because it was wrong on my part. And being able to see what I actually have as blessings around me helps big time. But the temptation is there as in my new school there are many beautiful women around (who are probably smooth operators). Being a male teacher is kind of like being a male nurse or a male cheerleader or something like that. Thanks for letting me let rant.
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Saturday, 19 September 2009 @ 4:10am
OxDrover says:
Dear Teacher,
My son works for Boy Scouts of America part of the year, and one of the “rules” is that NO staff member is EVER ALONE with a scout. If you must counsel a camper, you do it in EYESIGHT of another staff member if the conversation is private.
My stepfather was a wonderful teacher and also coach, and he was always very careful, even in the “old days” 50+ years ago to not be “alone” with only 1 or 2 students (he also was a very nice looking man)
Anyone who works with children I think, especially in today’s social climate, must be very careful in their interactions with students and with other co-workers so that there is no way they can be accused (with any validity) that they harassed another staff member, or that they even had the APPEARANCE of being alone with children.
I don’t understand your comment though — QUOTE “But the temptation is there as in my new school there are many beautiful women around (who are probably smooth operators). ” Would you please clarify the meaning for me?
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Saturday, 19 September 2009 @ 7:54am
teacher123 says:
What I meant is that I did have a contributing factor in the mess I was put in- I admit so much. But the N teacher I had an emotional affair with was a pretty smooth talker making me feel like I was the only one she cared for. So I hope I have learned my lesson- which nearly cost me family, but fortunately only my reputation and job were affected. But none of things really matter in the end as they can be replaced with time and showing myself reliable/honest from this point on. One of my close friends (married as well) at my new school is being shadowed by a very pretty, young teacher, so I can see danger ahead in that picture.
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Saturday, 19 September 2009 @ 10:24am
justabouthealed says:
teacher123….I’ve been a teacher, was one for 8 years, so I can relate to so much of what you are saying. I’ve also been involved with law enforcement, where I was one of few females with mostly males. I totally get what you are saying. Never was I so witty, so pretty, etc. and esp. with younger males. LOL! And of course we know law enforcement attracts its share of P’s. I realized it was “situational” popularity and ignored it, and certainly did not encourage it.
It is good and essential to be aware of our own vulnerabilities and weaknesses (I used to like male compliments WAY too much) and also the falseness of some of the situtations we are in. The book “When you love a man who loves himself” points out that certain environments are fertile ground for encouraging N/P/S’s, and a lopsided number of males to females is one of those. Too many women can bring out the worst in both sexes, and provide a stage for p’s, as can too many men.
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Saturday, 19 September 2009 @ 10:47am
teacher123 says:
justabouthealed,
I am glad to hear that others can identify, but in reality it feels like I am on my own. The real friends I worked with (the only ones I told my story to), think I am crazy already trying to convince them what happened. A couple of them knew from the start that she was phony, and I suspected it as well deep down. That is why it took nearly a year and half of her flashing her breasts (literally daily) and sweet talking for me to break, and I guess I did not want to easily break my marriage vows. My wife is great, and I would regret it if I hurt her. This lady used my email communication where I proclaimed that I liked her(4 months after I sent it, and after she left our job) as proof of my harassment. And she didn’t even do it herself- she had another girl who was close to the both of us, do it. At least the school district asked the questions- why is she doing this now? And they all could wonder what her motivation is when she did not even work in our district anymore. I did not officially get reprimanded, but only a “stern” warning from our principal who was himself being played by this girl.Oh yeah and the girl who turned me in was immediately promoted to be my supervisor. She had also turned in 2 of her students in less than a years time for harassment as well. I almost lost my mind when they were persecuting me, but allowing this to go on,and when she and the other proxies were considering pressing attempted murder charges on another student for spitting in her coffee cup. Who would willingly want to go through this again?
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Sunday, 20 September 2009 @ 6:12am
teacher123 says:
justabouthealed,
I didn’t mean to downplay your comments in any way. They are all great points that I think I was trying to allude to as well. The military, (I am a veteran), is another place like that. Some females join I think to take part literally in that “action”. I know from experience as I had a dorm room directly underneath a female who made much noise (bed bouncing) nightly- every night- with a different guy even. I didn’t know her (everyone else did I suppose), but certainly she did not have the desire to form any lasting bonds. I am assuming she tried to avoid any.
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Sunday, 20 September 2009 @ 6:47am
applehillbilly says:
Dear ANewLily,
Thank you for the post. I had a similar experience but didn’t act on my gut and it didn’t turn out very well. Even so I still feel guilty or hesitant and I’m not sure if it’s because I don’t want to hurt someones feelings, just embarrassed or what but have managed to do so and been relieved afterwards.
The fact that the doctor actually called you really exposed him/her as someone to avoid. That was extremely unprofessional to call a patient and put them on the spot like that.
Unfortunately, other doctors will continue to refer patients to him and because we expect doctors to above all this most will only learn from experience which in some cases is too late and the damage has been done.
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Sunday, 20 September 2009 @ 10:21am
OxDrover says:
Dear Teacher,
Yes, the psychopaths are many times “sexual addicts” and that getting new “conquests” by getting others to have sex with them or be “interested” in them or “attracted” by them FEEDS their EGOS. Feeding their egos is a big part of what they do, and when they “catch” a “fish” on their line they enjoy the reeling it in for the “kill.” It is all about control and getting others to go for the BAIT. Yes, they are EVIL, and then if they can present themselves as VICTIMS of “harassment” by the REAL AVICTIM —OH, SO MUCH MORE FUN!!!
None of us are immune to temptation or an ego boost when an attractive person shows interest in us, even if we are solidly married, but by having a moral compass ourselves and HOLDING TIGHTLY TO IT we are at an advantage over the Psychopath because we usually stick to what is RIGHT. Yep, we all slip and fall sometimes and give in to the temptation, but we acknowledge our own part, and then try to do better. NONE OF US ARE PERFECT!!!
The psychopath ENJOYS control and the harm it brings to others, but normal people REPENT OF ANY harm they have caused by falling short of what they know is RIGHT, and try to make amends etc.
If nothing else, Teacher, you have learned a valuable lesson, but the “tuition” to the class was very “high” and painful to pay. That is why all of us are here, because of the “high price” of tuition in this school of hard knocks held by the psychopaths.
Just as Satan went to the garden of Eden to spread chaos, psychopaths and narcissists go around spreading their own version of chaos just to see others fall, that is the “JOY” they feel in hurting others. Even if they don’t get anything else out of the transaction. I’m glad you escaped before your entire life, family and career fell down around your feet. To me that says a lot of GOOD about YOU!!!!! TOWANDA!!!!
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Sunday, 20 September 2009 @ 10:27am
ANewLily says:
Dear Applehillbilly,
I so appreciate your response, especially that you pointed out how unprofessional it was for that surgeon to “confront” me. I hadn’t thought of that so it gave me more food for thought about WHY didn’t I recognize that?! I came up with some helpful answers about myself that will help me in the future.
IOWs, another of my faults is rarely assessing others’ actions, just my own! LIGHTBULB moment! That trait is not very healthy for me!
I thought about Oxy’s suggestion that I “should have” confronted the doctor with my truth so he could learn something. Thankfully, I’ll never see him again but I don’t think I will do that even in a future and similar experience. I’ve already LEARNED through hard experience that trying to TEACH a sociopath is futile.
Teacher,
Teaching was my profession, too. The faculty was mostly men (college/university levels) and after reading of your experience I wondered if my friendly attitude caused the men any discomfort! I hope not but then, I was so wrapped up in enjoying my students and meeting their academic needs that I don’t even think I thought if my behavior (chatting in the lunch room or hall) might be considered “flirting.”
Also, my teachng was my sanity-saver, such a different environment than my personal home life of abuse! I totally immersed myself in my job!
I’m sorry that you had this painful experience!! And also glad you learned something valuable from it. One of my nephews was charged legally with harassment — and punished severely — by three high school girls that he went out of his way to pick up to drive them to and from school — their only method of getting there.
Later it was learned that the girls collectively made that accusation as a “lark” — thought it would be fun! But, of course, their confession came too late to undo the damage. His marriage had a few bumps but it survived.
Anyway, I can imagine your pain! I hope you are now aware that your emotional response to that woman had been a manipulation of you on her part and that you are not chastising yourself TOO much!
Geminigirl,
You know that I care about your pain with your daughters because I share it concerning mine — at least with two of my three adult daughters. We are getting stronger from the battle, don’t forget!
Skylar,
Several days ago I notified Donna to give you my email address regarding the gluten-free diet. I have not heard from her or you. Does she need for you to give her your permission, too?
To ALL,
I won’t know my new surgery date until tomorrow, but I hope you know I will be counting on all for the good vibes from all of you as I face this. My youngest daughter will come out (1800 miles) after I am discharged but the surgery and hospitalization will be “on my own” (and God’s presence.) Thanks!!
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Sunday, 20 September 2009 @ 12:04pm
skylar says:
Prayers to you NewLily during your surgery. Please let us know the exact date and time so we can be there for you in thought.
I haven’t been contacted by Donna, but I will contact her.
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Sunday, 20 September 2009 @ 1:59pm
witsend says:
A NewLily,
Bless you sweet Lily….Please do let us know your surgery date. We will be there for you in prayer.
I am very glad to hear that your daughter will be coming to your side after the surgery.
My good vibes are with you.
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Sunday, 20 September 2009 @ 2:12pm
OxDrover says:
Skylar,
You can also find gluten free diets on the internet. Isn’t it such a wonderful resource!!!! without it we wouldn’t have each other!
Lily, I agree with you about confronting psychopaths and ns, it does NO good at all. However, that said, sometimes people are really NOT aware of their “manner” being offensive or triggering to others and so being “told” gently that their behavior is not acceptable, WILL help them. That is, after all HOW WE LEARN HOW TO BEHAVE, but if you are not comfortable doing this, then LISTEN TO YOUR OWN HEART in those instances then.
I DO confront sometimes and sometimes I decide to let it slide, it just depends on the situation. I have actually confronted (gently) some physicians and been thanked, and then I have been ATTACKEd in response, but the thing is, now that I am RETIRED I don’t give a big rat’s behind whether they attack or not as I am immune to their opinions.
Recently I gently but FIRMLY confronted a person who was attempting to put a “pity play” on me in order to have me enable them, and I am so PROUD OF MYSELF, I stood FIRM and did NOT emotionally accept the blame they were projecting on to me…it SLID RIGHT OFF! So, you know, I AM making progress!!! (((pat, pat, pat–that’s the sound of me patting myself on the back for a GOOD JOB!)))) See, I even BRAGGED on myself for doing a good job! (pat, pat, again!) LOL
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Sunday, 20 September 2009 @ 4:13pm
teacher123 says:
ANewLily,
Prayers and hugs as you go through with your surgery. Let us know when you are back in the saddle. Thanks for the encouragement as well. I am ok with it all now, but I had a hard time figuring out how someone who I thought was a friend could treat me like less than crap, totally go no contact on me first (silent treatment, whatever), and act like I wasn’t even a speck in her life when we were close for 2 years. In the end I just even wanted her to acknowledge at least that, but she then treated me like a criminal even. Oh well I am fortunate still to have a great family, and many friends. My children are awesome as well, but get along like cats and dogs like most kids do. I have a boy-10 and a girl who is about to be 12.
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Sunday, 20 September 2009 @ 7:12pm
Tilly says:
Oxy:
Awesome post! thankyou so much! You have such a way with words, you really help everyone to understand things so fast…especially me.
When I amputed my lungs (my daughter) I felt torturous grief but it QUICKLY advanced into IMMENSE ANGER AT HER!!! for making me remove my lungs!! work that out!
Lucky I still have my younger son (my heart) and I believe there is still hope (denial?) for my middle son so I don’t have to amputate my mind!! lol!
One giant amputation per 6 months is enough I say!
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Monday, 21 September 2009 @ 5:40pm
runningaway says:
When I first decided I had to remove my mother from my life I was scared for the first year. Then I felt so free! It was wonderful. Too bad I didn’t know back then that she was a sociopath, or I would never have allowed myself to be sucked back in. Her play for sympathy and her apologies fooled me. I didn’t know anything about sociopathy back then. I just knew I couldn’t take the abuse any longer.
Now I know what I’m dealing with and you’ll be happy to know that I have, at least, been able to distance myself almost entirely. As long as she doesn’t have a genuine health emergency (like last summer), I’m gone. And I’m free. Yay!
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Tuesday, 22 September 2009 @ 8:12am
OxDrover says:
Dear Tilly and Runningaway,
It IS PAINFUL to “amputate” a member of your “body” and it is difficult to learn to function without that part of your “body” but in the end it is the ONLY way to SURVIVE.
I relate to Tilly because I had to “amputate” my beloved son, my “shining star” child, and with you too, Running, because I had to amputate my egg donor. Just coming to grips with the TRUTH that I COULD amputate these ‘cancers” was almost more than I could even fathom in my mind. I felt lilke I would be totally crippled and unable to function without either of both of these “members” of my body.
If either had died, I could have coped, but cutting out the “living but diseased” flesh of my own body with a “rusty butcher knife” and doing it “without anesthetic” was more than I felt like I could bear. The surgery was so painful, and the wounds so large and gaping, and the “blood loss” almost fatal, but I did it, and looking back, I should have done it much sooner.
Running, I am my egg donor’s only child, and I felt that I was OBLIGATED to care fo rher health, I had overseen her health care for about 20 years and was her primary care practitioner. However, I realized I could not continue to do this and I felt really GUILTY fior “abandoning” her—BUT— then I realized I am NOT obligated to care for her just because she gave birth to me, and actually, she revoked my Power of Attorney—- and I realized I do NOT have the AUTHORITY to even see her medical records much less over see her care, and where there is no authority, there is NO obligation.
After she had devalued and dumped me for the psychopaths, and then they went to jail, she called me one day and wanted to tell me about her latest physician visit, what her Blood Pressure was, and so on and I told her then, “I am no longer your health care provider” and I did not listen to her. Now I am totally NC with her except for the occasional e mail on business, and I stick entirely to BUSINESS in those e mails, I do not even put a salutation at the first, and only my name at the bottom.
I realized too, that I am TOTALLY free of her except for the fact that I know she is still sending money to my P-offspring and has willed him money, but I will fight that after she dies.
In the meantime, I have exhausted ALL avenues of trying to stop her from sending him money so, might as well quit worry about it and just do what I have to do at the time it is necessary.
I also realized that I NO longer even MISS a relationship with her. That was the biggest thing, was missing what I thought I had, but now realize I NEVER had.
Tilly, I’m glad I can explain things so you “get” what I am trying to say, because that is what LF is all about. I wish sometimes I could write with the qualities of some of the other authors, but I also know I have my own style that is ME. Just like your paintings are YOUR style.
How is your class going, BTW?
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Tuesday, 22 September 2009 @ 8:36am
geminigirl says:
Dear Oxy, I feel you wrote this for me ,too.yes, its been hugely painful to “amputate my older daughter from my life,and the other daughter “amputated ‘ me, herself, 17 years ago. Ive now ben non physical contact with older daughter since dec. 10th 2008, and nil phone or email contact for 3 months. Each day, I feel a bit better, less stressed,happier, my new “adopted” adult kids give us so much love and joy, and are so grateful for every thing we do, they give us so much more than we could ever give them! Im so grateful to God for giving my husband and I a new family to love. They hug and kiss us,{my husband had NEVER had a hug from my girls}, they call him Daddy,and me Mama or Mum.Abbas helps D. in the garden and loves to do it. We have never ever had any family member help us, think of us, or give us kisses and love like this!.I realise I never had a real relationship with my girls since they were around 15 year of age.I gave and they took, that was it. I dont mean things,but love, I never felt they gave a rats behind about us. We are so lucky and happy now, and I think of my “girls’ less every day.Do I still love them? I suppose so, but its not the same. Ive been so let down, hurt, betrayed, conned abused byboth of them that its hard to feel any real love is left to give.
My guilt at not seeing them is lessening too,each day NC gets easier. I tried to give them both to God, but I kept snatching them back. Now I see I didnt help them at all by overgiving and enabling them to walk all over me, due to a false sense of guilt for leaving their dad.If the older one rang me, in tears again, asking for money , Im not sure still that id be strong enough to tell her to piss off and leave me alone! AllI wanted was one apology, to try to get some sort of closure for all the hurts, betrayals, lies, abuse,etc. but I now see its unlikely ever to happen.So I hope she doesnt call me.I have to give her to God to sort out, because I cant do any more, Im done. Thanks Oxy, and all of you , you have walked the walk, gone thru living Hell, and come out the other side stronger, and I will too. Love, gem.XX{{HUGS}}
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Tuesday, 22 September 2009 @ 9:04am
OxDrover says:
Dear Gemini,
Of COURSE you would be strong enough to say NO, or even strong enough not to pick up the phone.
You know the TRUTH, she might even say the “words” of “I’m so sorry” but you know she would never MEAN THEM.
I too kept giving and giving and they kept taking and taking, and demanding MORE. Now after a couple of years NC with my P-son, i realized that I lived a FANTASY that in the future he would come “home” and things would be peachy! DUH!
I look back and realize it was NOTHING but my FANTASY—I was living in OZ, in La-la Land, in DELUSIONAL HOPE!
God also gave me another son, to replace the empty space in my heart, and I am so grateful for that. I realize that FAMILY is who you love and who LOVES YOU BACK…not “blood.”
Keep strong, Gemini, enjoy your newfound family and children and revel in the love they have for you, and the love you have for them. (((hugs)))) and God bless.
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Tuesday, 22 September 2009 @ 9:36am
Eagle says:
Excellent! I’m in the process of having to conduct major surgery on my Borderline Personality daughter who just married a sociopath and then announced that she’s pregnant. Oh, joy. Grandparents and my husband are the major enablers. This is major surgery!
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Tuesday, 22 September 2009 @ 9:38am
OxDrover says:
Dear Eagle,
The duped enablers in the family are what I call “psychopaths-by-proxy” in that they keep up the PRESSURE on you to do what the psychopath wants….in your case the BPD dtr.—and it is a situation where you are caught between the “devil and the deep blue sea.”
I have a cousin who has a BPD daughter and an enabling husband, and it was very difficult for years because he kept enabling the dtr, but my cousin finally worked it out, and SHE disengaged from the daughter totally (NC) and let the husband have HIS relationship with the dtr but NOT LET HIM try to guilt or force her into having one. As she put it, she “let go, and gave it to God.” but stood her ground firmly.
Many times this comes to a “head” at christimas and other holidays when the enabler wants to have this Norman Rockwell All-American “happy” Christmas gathering and YOU are the “bad guy” for not wanting to participate in it.
This crap with the guilting has turned me away from even enjoying holidays much any more, though last year I did put up a tree and a wreath! My egg donor whined and cried and guilted about me not wanting to have Christmas dinner with her brother, UNCLE MONSTER, to the point that I just went elsewhere for Christmas and Thanksgiving.
The “blackmail” that the enablers do is so painful, the “If you love me, you will do what I want you to about _______” CRAP and BS, and it is difficult to SET and MAINTAIN BOUNDARIES because they will NEVER give up on this guilting!
I was caught in that web for SO MANY YEARS and did not know how to set boundaries with people I loved (primarily my egg donor and my P-offspring.) NOW I KNOW THAT NO ONE has a right to treat me that way, to black mail me, and insist that i do something painful to myself.
I NOW REALIZE THAT IF THEY TRULY LOVED & RESPECTED ME, they would NOT try to force me to do something that is SO VERY painful against my will. Setting boundaries was VERY difficult at first, but I am getting much much better at this and have little problem setting bondaries for ANY ONE now. I treat people well, and I EXPECT they treat me as I treat them.
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Tuesday, 22 September 2009 @ 10:21am
Twice Betrayed says:
Oxy: you are priceless. Excellent article.
Even when these people guilt us [where is their guilt over WHY we don't come?] into holidays or various ‘gatherings’….and we give in thinking/hoping this
time it will be real….it always turns into a huge drama and game because that is just the way these people are…the very root of who they are. I always have to repeat this to myself when cornered or being guilted into another ’scene’.
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Tuesday, 22 September 2009 @ 1:44pm
jillsmith says:
This article gives me a lot to think about. Thanks Oxy. I’ll post more and some questions once I have let it marinate for a bit.
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Tuesday, 22 September 2009 @ 2:42pm
katiebug11 says:
Thank all of you for your posts and comments. I learn so much from them. And yes- like everyone else I find myself going “Is it me?? Could he really be a sociopath?” I mean he can “act” nice sometimes and do nice things- but he betrays me over and over-his words are meaningless. His apologies even more meaningless! But I want those apologies so much! How crazy am I???
They just make you crazy! They do it to isolate you and control you. In a book I read it even said something about tell your friends “if you have any left” about your situation. Wow- it took me twelve -yes thats ten plus two more years to figure out that I am married to a sociopath!!! I used to have friends! I always had friends- but now- I have very, very few friends. One of the reasons is that they sabotage you behind your back and spread lies about you. I used to not believe it. But since it has happened to so many people here on LF I know they do!!! I have even caught him in one of his rumors that he helped to spread!! It was a total lie! They will ruin your reputation to make themself look good no matter what the cost to you. Partly because they want the sympathy from other people- Oh look how good he is to her- she is such a mess. And- well no wonder he cheated on her- she is such a crazy bitch!
So here I am tempted to catch him in his own net so to speak. You have to think like them to get what you want. I want to catch him in some lies, situations and use that to get out of this relationship with SOME of what I had when I came in it! Like credit, money, dignity. Anything. He has taken so much from me and there is not enough forgiveness in this world to get totally past it.
I know he won’t honor any agreements post break up so I am considering offering him an agreement of sorts.
That is – if he agrees to pay me for my share of the equity in the house and refinance it and pay me my half of his retirement that he does owe me- I won’t expose him to the world as a complete fraud. He would lose his job, his reputation if it all got out. He stands to lose a great deal. You see I have actual proof. I have spyware on my computer and complete access to cell phone records- it’s in my name. It would make my life easier to have some financial strenghth to start over.
I know that’s blackmail, extortion etc. whatever! What he has done is far worse! This may be my only way out- and I want OUT! I don’t care who he ends up with!!! I want to get my revenge in the form of cash money! I think he would pay his way out. Or do you think he will find another way out??? You all have more experience than I do. His family HATES me- because he has told them lie after lie about me. He borrowed money and wouldn’t pay them back and blamed it on ME! He got the money-not me. But he is the golden child in the family and I think they would pay for him to “get rid of me” and “get out of their lives”.
Should I do that? Do you wish you had?
I want him exposed but feel that this will happen anyway because he will slip up again and I won’t be here to clean up his mess.
It is so hard living this way. I am so exhaused all the time! Lucky for me he works a lot! Well sometimes he just stays late so he can call his girlfriend. At least I’m not having sex with him anymore! I’m not having any sex with anyone! I am too stressed out!
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Sunday, 4 October 2009 @ 7:59pm
katiebug11 says:
BTW- OxDrover- the holidays!!! OMG I totally know what you mean! They want the illusion of the perfect holiday and we are supposed to put up with them and their “psychopaths-by-proxy” relatives!! I hate Christmas because of him and his fffd-up family.
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Sunday, 4 October 2009 @ 8:04pm
skylar says:
Katiebug, do not blackmail him. He will kill you. He will hire a hitman, run you over, poison you or whatever. They don’t have a conscience so there is nothing to stop him.
You can only blackmail him after you have left him and concealed you whereabouts.
But there must be a better way. They are not that hard to trick, find a way that will not get you in any kind of problem. Get a lawyer, a mean, nasty one.
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Sunday, 4 October 2009 @ 9:27pm
katiebug11 says:
I know right!? That’s what I’m afraid of. I know he had access to a gun his dad owned at one time. His dad is a drunk so he wouldn’t notice it missing. It sends chills down my spine when I think about what he is really capable of. He got custody of his kids from his ex-wife (first marriage). I think he did it just to WIN! He never cared about his kids. He still doesn’t care. He just pretends too. He pretends to care about me too. I have taken him off my life insurance as any kind of beneficiary because if he does do something-he won’t get much. My daughter knows what’s going on. She is 20. I told her I would never leave her. I would never kill myself and all that. These are not easy conversations to have. I am afraid of him and you’re right- he would try to kill me. He has always been jealous of me. He has let himself go and I haven’t. Thank God for that. But he has told me that if he ever saw me with another man- he would kill us both.
I already know where I want to move and that I don’t want him to know where I am- ever!
I did hire a nasty lawyer- he was nice to me- he really wanted to “get” my husband- said he was crazy! His license has been suspended for unethical conduct!! Can you believe it??? All this time I waited to go see an attorney and the one I pick is all but disbarred? And he was a really nice guy! I wonder what happened. Now I have to find another one. I guess I better be totally honest about the abusive nature of our relationship.
Thank you for your advice. I really appreciate it and I REALLY need it!
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Sunday, 4 October 2009 @ 11:31pm
ErinBrockovich says:
katiebug:
I think you know him best…..and you should get to know him better……
study him, do not react, but take everything In…….disect it…..this will aid in keeping you safe in the long run.
I was at a point where I just couldn’t let him bury me further…..
I wasn’t going to step down…..
I wasn’t going to let him intimidate me…..kill me…..I ain’t afraid of dying!
I posted this recently….
Now….this isn’t for everyone…..and once you commit to the long haul…..YOU MUST STAY Commited…..PERIOD!
You take a stand in either direction.
Sometimes the fear they instill in us is so penetrating it’s paralyzing and this is what they bank on.
Give this some thought……
weigh the options
I like what you have done so far…….
decide if the ‘goods’ are a total shut down for him…..
I love the cell records….don’t take that out of your name! Key tool there!
I guess I would want to know more about your full situation….and I’m not sure if you can post it .
I think most of it is always just talk…the threats…..BUT….you have to be the judge of that……and be accurate!
What is his abuse level? History….
I look back and mine was all smoke and mirrors…..he used others as proxys’……all talk…..
SO I GOT SMOKIER AND TALKIER AND PROXIER…….
Here is comes again…..COUNTER CONTROL!!!!!
Inner sociopath…….
I let him dig his grave and I pushed him in…….
Your still with him……use this time to prepare, prepare, prepare,…..diligently…..and stealthly…..read here…..read books on divorcing a Socipath…..gain every inch of knowledge you can, but DON”T EVER LET HIM SEE WHAT YOU ARE DOING……
PLAY HIM…….Keep providing him a supply…..while you plan your exit.
IS your husband a ‘gun guy’? Reality says we all have access to a gun, neighbors, family, crooks on the street……but does he know how to use a gun? Has he ever owned a gun……
Weigh out this fear…..realistically.
I mean, there is no sense in worrying that Jamaca will blow up the US with a nuclear bomb…….see the point?
Dont expect to win each battle….but keep your eye on the prize….the war!
Mull it around…..and weigh the options…..and in hte meantime……PLAN AWAY GIRL!!!!
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Monday, 5 October 2009 @ 2:03am
OxDrover says:
Dear Katiebug,
First off—do not let him know what you plan to DO. I.e. the blackmail, he will find a way around it.
NO PROMISES OF FUTURE PAYMENT WILL WORK. None, ZIP, Nada, EVEN IF YOU HAVE IT IN WRITING!
Sounds like your attorney was also a P!
Erin is a big FIGHTER, and her feelings are to FIGHT, but I also know that sometimes it is better to WALK AWAY ALIVE THAN TO FIGHT—each of us should think carefully whether to be a “dead lion or a live dog”
Also, I do know that a FIGHT with some of them is a CHALLENGE that they cannot stand to lose so they will HURT YOU even if it HURTS THEM. They will “cut their own nose off to spite their own face” My P son is one of those. Others are cowards.
So you must be CAREFULL in making your decision. and remember ALL PROMI$E$ FROM THEM ARE ONLY HOT AIR.
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Monday, 5 October 2009 @ 8:15am
skylar says:
Katie, I have an idea. find where he keeps the bullets to his gun and see if you can’t ruin them, like soak them in water or something so they don’t fire, then put them back. LOL.
I don’t know anything about guns, would that work?
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Monday, 5 October 2009 @ 8:46am
kim frederick says:
Morning, Skylar, Oxy, EB and Katybug. Just jumpin’ in to say hello.
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Monday, 5 October 2009 @ 9:05am
skylar says:
Good Morning Kim,
How’s the weather? I’m freezing here. I think I might’ve caught a bug.
We should do a video called “how to lure a sociopath” and put it on youtube. Make so good, it goes viral. Then follow it up with “How to trick a sociopath -1″ and “-2″ etc…
Then we do “How to dump a sociopath”.
I think that would really speed up getting the word out. It’ wouldn’t really blow the effectiveness of the techniques because sociopaths are so stupid they really have no other way to act, other than how they act. I tell all the sociopaths I know that I like to give people all the rope they need to hang themselves. So they know exactly what I’m doing when I’m being nice to them. But they can’t help believing that I’m being conned. Oh well.
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Monday, 5 October 2009 @ 9:25am
kim frederick says:
I’m in.
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Monday, 5 October 2009 @ 9:34am
blueskies says:
Skylar- how about – ‘how not to give a shit about sociopaths …because I’m washing my hair and then ooh there’s a program I like on…:)x i’d like that
xxx
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Monday, 5 October 2009 @ 9:47am
skylar says:
Blueskies,
Of course. That would be an element of each video – all would be done with a certain nonchalance. They are so stupid that you could trick a psychopath WHILE washing your hair AND watching your favorite show. Just tell them you are washing your hair to make them look good and that the show is broadcasting subliminal messages all about them.
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Monday, 5 October 2009 @ 9:57am
blueskies says:
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Monday, 5 October 2009 @ 10:02am
blueskies says:
Lord thats the first big belly laugh i’ve had for… I cant remember how long!
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Monday, 5 October 2009 @ 10:03am
ErinBrockovich says:
Good Morning Ladies….
Got a full plate…..just popped in to say hello…..it’s snowing and freezing here too!
Good day to light some perverbial fires!
I’m off to do just that…..
Skylar….you sound MUCH better……keep good thoughts and do NOT let anyone have control over you!
Let me know when we are shooting the video…I’m in too!
Have we gotten an update on Lily yet? Did I miss something?
My computer was acting weird on LF site yesterday…..
Ya’ll have a good day and be kind to yourself…..
Stay warm!
XXOO
EB
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Monday, 5 October 2009 @ 10:16am
skylar says:
morning Erin.
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Monday, 5 October 2009 @ 10:27am
skylar says:
Katie,
according to this article it is legal for lawyers to blackmail or extort. So you can hire a lawyer or get a law degree to do this for you! Right Matt?
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10......html?_r=1
Article is called “The Art of Blackmail”
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Monday, 5 October 2009 @ 10:39am
robxsykobabe says:
Hi lovefraud:
So, Ive been feeling sorta down so far this week as it is coming up in 4 months NC with ‘princess’. So many thoughts have gone through my mind and some guilt has begun to cross my path. I know I needed to accept the ‘root cause’ of my pain, and attributed it to becoming aware of his shit.
This guilt of mine surrounds the idea I have of ‘giving up’ on ‘us’ and going NC cold turkey. I vascillate between thinking ‘who deals with all the bullshit?” and “damn, I should have at least told him goodbye”.
I am posting some texts he sent me in Aug of 09 after we began talking again after our initial breakup…
“I want you to want me and miss me and really put yourself out there and act like your in love with me…I want to matter to you, to be worth the time, the drive…I want to be loved too much and held too tight, wanted, desired and I want it from you.”
Sound like bullshit to you guys or what? This was written in August and we went NC in November…did/does he really want those things from me or was this his skill at using words to trap me again…?
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Monday, 1 March 2010 @ 9:44pm
ErinBrock says:
Okay,okay,okay……RBAbe…..
What your feeling is part of the process……the key factor is NOT to give into it!!!!!!
Don’t let yourself become overcome by these feelings…..
This is what he’s telling you.
““I want you to want me and miss me and really put yourself out there and act like your in love with me…I want to matter to you, to be worth the time, the drive…I want to be loved too much and held too tight, wanted, desired and I want it from you.”
I want you to buy into what I’m telling you….and hurry up….because I can’t hold the front up too long you stupid bitch….
I want to know that I have you by the strings of your heart and I can prance you around like the puppeteer I am.
I want the great sex you gave me….cuz I’,m having a hard time finding it elsewhere currently….and I know, one night with me…with surely suck you right back to my bed….since the drive is so looong and all….
I want you to act like you love me, so all my friends will be envious of the hot babe I got to dangle around them…..
I want it from you…because i’ve put so muchwork into sheistering you….that your my first choice….otherwise, i’m just gonna have to run right out and find another and another….You have first dibs on me….only because I think your a sucker…..
YEAH DARLEN……SOunds like bullshit!!!
See….I found the hardest part of the split was the lack of closure…..
but break that down girl……If we had ‘closure’ with this type of personality……WE”D STILL BE TOGETHER…..
Cuz they’d suck us right back in….with the above texts and bullshit words….
THIS IS WHY WE DON”T GET CLOSURE…..
It wasn’t a healthy relationship…..so it doesn’t get a standard departure….
CLOSE the door……
You need not second guess yourself…..
OR….better yet……why don’t ya go back and give it another shot……you’ll quickly remind yourself of WHY you went Cold turkey!!!!
(That’s a joke)!!!
XXOO
EB
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Monday, 1 March 2010 @ 10:09pm
geminigirl says:
Obviously you cant be raped by your adult kids, but you can be raped in other ways.I allowed myself to be emotionally, mentally and financially raped by my spath kids,{now 45 and 44 years old,}for over 26 years. NO MORE!! Love, Gem.
Sorry this is prob. not the point being discussed here, but sometimes revelations just hit you in the solar plexus, and you have to share. Love Gem.
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Monday, 1 March 2010 @ 10:25pm
kim frederick says:
RobsX, RE-READ that shit! All it said is , “I want, I want…
ask yourself why HIS wants are enough for you.
I was the same way…if he wanted me, then I had some control and some power. Not so…You need tosak yourself what YOU want, and then figure out how you can go about getting it. I can promise you this guy has nothing to give YOU, but is thinking about what HE CAN GET FROM YOU…He knows that if he says, “I want you”, he’s in the door…
I only say this cause I’ve been there.
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Monday, 1 March 2010 @ 10:32pm
kim frederick says:
You will find that L
but then again, maybe ai’m taking that out of context. I just re-read your post…was that excerpt baried in the middle of a really honest back and forth dialogue…
If you were asking him, “what do you want?” then this could be okay….
but if it came out of nowhere, his little pied piper shit, well, then…
You will find that we at LF err on the side of, ‘HE SUCKS, GET OUT, NO, HE DOESN’T LOVE YOU”
You are the only one who knows what you really need. There are probably sights out there who would tell you you have a prince. My guess is though, if you had a prince, you never would have found your way here.
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Monday, 1 March 2010 @ 10:49pm
OxDrover says:
Dear R-babe,
LISTEN TO KIM! All he is doing is trying to lay a guilt trip on you cause you aren’t giving HIM what HE wants—BOINK! Babe, right square on topo of the head! Now you get your stuff straight and quit feeling guilty—-OR ELSE!!!! ((((hug)))) if you want an ice pack for your flat head, see if Gem will get you one or Janie! Tonight I am just flatening skulls, not doling out the ice packs! ROTFLMAO ((((hugs))))
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Monday, 1 March 2010 @ 10:58pm
robxsykobabe says:
Lovefraud friends:
EB:
ok, ok…so that text was from when we first broke up in June and began to talk again in August so he WAS trying hard to get back with me. It is true though that if there WAS closure in the normal sense of the word, there is a great chance that we WOULD be talking again…and Id be sucked right back into it. Not a healthy relationship=abnormal departure—YOURE RIGHT! And I need to remind myself that this was NOT healthy…although I do know it, sometimes I feel all the ‘good’ that he showed was real…but I know it wasnt.
Kim:
I did re-read, and you are correct-it is all about him, not unlike alot of our relationship. His wants are not enough for me which was exactly part of the problem…I too wanted things from him…like honesty, truthfullness and loyalty. He has NOTHING to give me, you are absolutely correct, in fact, I have the house, the money, the car, all the ‘normal’ things ‘normal’ people have so it doesnt surprise me that he would ‘want me’ to ‘want him’ with NO expectations…
Feedback I would love…
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Monday, 1 March 2010 @ 11:07pm
OxDrover says:
Ok, R-babe, you are off the hook, I’ve stopped swinging, you are talking sense now! Of course he would want YOU, he had NOTHING ELSE, like honesty, truthfulness, loyalty, nnone of the things a normal good person has—-and he is reaping the “benefits” of having nothing to give!~
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Monday, 1 March 2010 @ 11:15pm
kim frederick says:
And by the way Robsx, who the hell wants to be loved TOO much and held TOO tight…what the hell does that mean?
That is his way of saying that he wants YOU to be obsessed with him….if you are, he has all the power….
then he can go do what he does and be secure in the knowledge that he’s got you. I can’t stand him, already.
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Monday, 1 March 2010 @ 11:22pm
robxsykobabe says:
Ox:
Yeah, he had nothing to give except his bullshit lieing, manipulative, conning game. Funny, though, when he was trying to win me over, he would come to my house every weekend with a ‘gift’…candy, flowers, card, whatever. Those were the ONLY things he had to offer me when all I wanted was for him to be a good person…like I was. How juvenille, right?
I love ‘reality therapy’ in case you were wondering! I seem to respond well to it!
So, I know Ive posted about this recently, although I still need to ‘process’ it…since having NC, Ive thought about him quite a bit. NOT so much that I want to call or see him, but just about his ’situation’ since we’ve been done. After trying so hard the first time after our breakup, I expected some attempts from him to contact me…and that has caused some anxiety. Well, he hasnt contacted me nor has he tried. Im wondering…had he not moved onto his next victim during our first breakup and thats why he tried so hard to get back with me? Has he moved onto his next victim, maybe sooner than I thought, which is why he HASNT made attempts at contacting me OR…and this is a big OR…
Is this a mind game…sorta like “Ill let you squirm a bit, and hold out on contacting you”
I DONT WANT HIM TO CONTACT ME…its freaking me out though as he is supposed to get his license back this month…fully or just for work…and Im feeling anxious…
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Monday, 1 March 2010 @ 11:27pm
robxsykobabe says:
KIM:
OMG…Im cracking up cause I THOUGHT THE SAME THING when he sent that to me…
Who the hell wants to be loved too much and held too tight! And you are absolutley right…and I had an ephiphany because of it…
He wanted me to be obsessed with him and give up everything, everyone and my life to dedicate it soley to him-so he could feel like he ‘had’ me and do his own shit! And that DID NOT happen…which frustrated him…and he didnt know what to do because he ALWAYS had the women right where he wanted them….
THANK YOU!
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Monday, 1 March 2010 @ 11:30pm
robxsykobabe says:
Kim:
By the way…he wrote those things out of the blue without having any encouragement from me…and then when I didnt give him the response he wanted like “omg, Im so sorry…anything you want Ill do” he replied with ‘well, if you dont think theres anythign you need to change, then we already have a problem because we are right back where we started from’. What a dick head loser…
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Monday, 1 March 2010 @ 11:35pm
ErinBrock says:
What does he think you are…..A ZIT?
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Monday, 1 March 2010 @ 11:43pm
kim frederick says:
EB, did you listen to my links? Do you remembe way back to the Grass Roots?
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Monday, 1 March 2010 @ 11:55pm
ErinBrock says:
Yes…I did….
But….UH…..remember Grass Roots….WHO????
Loved the song though….
Queen was my HS era….and LOVED The song!
I’ve decided….I’m going to download a nice selection of Warrior songs, kick your ass songs etc….and play them day and night on my outdoor speakers….surround sound in the yard…..
I think it would be hilarious if he showed up to dig and the lily Allen song was playing on repeat….
the F you song…..
Thanks for the links Ms. Kimmy….
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Tuesday, 2 March 2010 @ 12:03am
witsend says:
Hey guys…How is everyone tonight?
Kim for what it is worth I remember the Grass Roots. I am trying to remember some of their hits.
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Tuesday, 2 March 2010 @ 12:10am
kim frederick says:
Hi Witty, I was trying to post a link for, “Where were you When I Needed You”. Remember that one?
It’s nice tosee you Witty, but I have tosay, I’m done for the night….I’m tired. Hope all is well with you.
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Tuesday, 2 March 2010 @ 12:36am
hens says:
Hi Witty – Has anyone seen OneStep here lately?
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Tuesday, 2 March 2010 @ 12:41am
geminigirl says:
Dear TB, Ive totally lost the thread with your blog, re your daughters Birthday. I posted a response to it, and now Ive lost the thread! Can you help me find it? Love, and {{HUGS!!}} Gem.XX
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Tuesday, 2 March 2010 @ 1:12am
ErinBrock says:
No…..she said she was going to take a break….she had a deadline to finish a job…
I hope she’s okay….it’s been a rough go for her lately.
One….we luv ya girly!!!
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Tuesday, 2 March 2010 @ 1:23am
ErinBrock says:
WITTY,
How are you????
I’m 2 3/4 months away from 18!!!
Things have been on an ‘okay’ front around here…..could change at any moment…..llike we all know!
I do think about you Wits…..hoping your getting some peace.
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Tuesday, 2 March 2010 @ 1:25am
karleigh says:
Dear Oxy, I’ve never posted on this site before but I’ve followed it for a very long time and it has helped me so much. I too have had a dreadful relationship with a sociopath (a murderer who is back in prison after I worked for years to get him released – sound familiar anyone?)
I could write volumes about my experience, his behavior,my co-dependence, etc. etc. but I’m sure it has all been written before. It fills me with shame to admit to it, but thanks to reading others stories, I know I am not alone. It has taken me three years to climb out of the black hole I fell into when he was taken away. However, before he was about to be arrested I found a still, small voice whispering inside of me. It whispered ‘Run!’ It was the voice of survival. To continue with him was to die. I’d had it and could not take any more. I was the one who turned him in to the police and his parole officer as he was violating his parole by a return to drugs. (How’s that for drama? I got him out and I put him back in.)I was one terribly confused woman after all of this. It seems that the sicker he got the sicker I got too.
He is still in prison, and although he made initial attempts at contact, and then another try a few months ago I have maintained No Contact.
Oxy, I don’t know if he’ll ever get out of prison. His initial crime was horrific and it was just a loophole and a hard working advocate (me) that got him released from a life in prison. It appears they have thrown the book at him now and accused him of lying about many things. He may contact me again hoping I’ll get reeled in and work on his legal case again, I don’t know and I don’t care. I can’t, for the sake of my sanity, ever enter that arena again.
But I do have a question that has nagged at me for some time. I could write a letter to the Parole Board telling them many things they don’t know regarding his twisted behaviors (and this would give them even more cause to keep him in.) This feels like revenge to me and I know he would try to even the score somehow through one of his ‘friends.’ It also feels like I would be sinking to the level of the sociopath, himself. I have written the letter over and over but never mailed it. I discharged so much anger just in the writing.
Would there be healing for me if I sent it or would this just be a source of anxiety for me? I think I already know the answer but just would like to hear from some others.
I am so much better than I was three years ago. I seriously doubted my own sanity and my ability to cope was practically gone. Now, aside from troubling dreams sometimes, I can get on with life and make much better choices for myself. I have not gotten this far without extensive therapy and copious reading. I had so much to learn about myself and why I fell into the swamp the way I did. It was a lesson I guess I needed to learn to give me the new-found wisdom I now possess. And yet, still, there are moments when his face will flash into my mind and I feel the old compulsion to be with him. I think, from the progress I’ve made so far and from reading others’ stories that it will just be a matter of time before this stops. The dreams….well I don’t know when they’ll stop, I guess some part of my mind is still processing, after all he downloaded his dark and disordered thoughts into my brain for seven years.
Thanks for listening.
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Tuesday, 2 March 2010 @ 2:01am
ErinBrock says:
Karleigh:
WELCOME TO LF…..
You sound like you ‘got it together’ girl…..and are well on your way.
I’ve not been in Your shoes…..and your post wasn’t expressed to me…..
But I wanted to welcome you to our support here.
XXOO
eb
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Tuesday, 2 March 2010 @ 2:14am
shabbychic says:
Karleigh, hi there, Oxy will probably see your post tomorrow, I don’t have experience regarding your question, just wanted to let you know I’m out here thinking of you. That small voice inside of us is amazing, isn’t it? I am so happy you listened to yours!!! : )
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Tuesday, 2 March 2010 @ 2:48am
witsend says:
ErinBrock,
I was wondering how things were going with your son. But I hadn’t seen you post anything about it and figured no news was good news.
My thinking is if the disturbing behavior/traits that you see in your son isn’t consistant, and CONSTANT turmoil going on 24/7, that is GOOD news.
And if he shows any willingness to do something that you ask of him, or listens to reason in discussions (even if he doesn’t always follow reason) that is also promising.
Examine his relationships with others. (his peers) Does he have bonding type relationships with others?
What are his plans when he turns 18? Does he have any?
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Tuesday, 2 March 2010 @ 9:28am
OxDrover says:
Dear KARLEIGH,
I am so sorry you got mixed up in this mess—-And boy do I EVER know how you feel. When my X-son (a P) came up for parole last time, my egg donor hired an attorney and I got every person in the county it seemed that knows us to write letters of recommendation for US since they had never known patrick, that we would give him a job and a good place to parole to….yea, right!
His crime, murder of a 17 yr old girl, was pretty bad, and our package to the board was EXCELLENT so it got him a 4 year “set off” before he could go back to the board for another chance at parole (5 was the maximum they could have given him) Well, guess what, he already had his Trojan HOrse psychopath in place here just in case, supposedly to take care of and manage the farm, the family and our finances, until he could get out and then he would be “captain of the ship” and take over the management…which would of course have been with my death and then his grandmother’s death (leaving “them” plenty of money to play with) and an airport and a nice farm on which to play.
However his co-captain that was taking care of things let the cat out of the bag, and I figured things out—and when I wasn’t able to do anything legally, I ran which threw a wrench into their plans as I had to (for legal reasoons) die FIRST before my mom did or they were S.O.L. about any money, so the co-captain changed plans and took off on another path that got him arrested and the entire plot shot, along with letters found that layed it out.
For the past two months, I have been going through the letters that my P-son wrote me over 200 yrs in prison, and the ones he wrote to the Trojan Horse Psychopathic pedophile over a period of 7 years or so since they were former cell mates—-the TH-P saved them all! How convenient, and they included their plots and plans for him coming up here to rent a house from me, and infiltrating the family, even to him going to church.
I’ve gone through these, made copies of some of them, hired an attorney and will send them and a letter off to the attorney for presentation to the parole board at the time of his review.
All I can say though, is gete someone who DOES NOT know about this case to read yhour letter before you send it. That was the reason I hired the attorney, I SOUND LIKE A NUT CASE when I try to present it all and I have to be SANE sounding when I talk to them in my letter.
YOur letter must sound rational, reasonable, concise, precise and give them the information in a way that they can be warned that he is a bad actor. I would suggest you spend a couple of hundred bucks for an interview with an attorney to do the most good and YES, SEND IT. Get it on record.
BTW convicts are NOT allowed to know who testifies or writes the board for them or against them.
I’m assuming you helped this guy get out on some sort of technicality and instead of him straightening up, he started drugging again. TYPICAL.
My guess is though that there is a CHANCE he will eventually get out again, and if he is psychopathic like my son, he will be PISSED since you turned him in and got him rearrested.
My son still bears me a grudge about me turning him in from when he was 17 and robbed our friend’s business and shut it down for quite some time. The last person who “ratted him out” was shot in the head twice for her efforts and her body left in a field to rot.
Un fortunately, I think the way our prisons and our “criminal justice system” is (now there is an OXYMORON if every there was one) run, even if a kid went to prison innocent of any crime, by the time he got out, he would be a hardened criminal with a PhD in criminal ideas and methods, and bitter and beaten. Or he would be a predator himself.
Even the people I have know “adjust” to prison and become “felonized”—there is a book, called “The Felon” which is a research book on the ideas and thinking of prisoners after a while and after they adjust to prison, I can’t remember who wrote it but I get you could fiind it on Amazon…their thinking while they are in there is this magical thinkingn of how when they get out they are going to get a great job, a great playboy bunny chick, an great ride, a great apartment, etc. when the REALITY is they can’t get a job at Micky D’s and any woman who will date them is likely to havej only half her teeth and she is NOT going to model for any magazine nude or even with a sackk over her head. Life is boring, go to a menial job, come home to a dump, probably alone, take a bus to go anywhere, and then go to bed and start over the next day—booooooring, and no fun. No money to have fun with, no friends except the ones met in the joint, probably no family that wants them, so the slide down to more crime is fast and almost predictable. If they are psychopathic it is INSTANT return to crime.
I read that book years ago as a way to help me educdate myself about how to SAVE my son from adjusting to prison in that way—-sheesh, was I ever DELUSIONAL!!! a DREAMER! Writing my own fairy tails!!!
Send that letter to the parole board, hire an attorney to present it if you can (find an attorney who specializes in getting the OUT on parole and he will know also how to KEEP them in, and be acdquainted with jthe parole board personally so he can TALK to them as well as present to them at the hearing. USE every possible way to keep him in there! Make sure you are notified if and when he comes up for parole again, there should be some victim’s group connected to the state that would warn hyou when he is to come up for parole or when he is likely to get out. BE CAREFUL. They have long memories. ((((Hugs)))) and my prayers for you and your safety. Hang around here and read and keep on reading and post. There are always folks here to help support yuou!
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Tuesday, 2 March 2010 @ 12:45pm
style1 says:
This post resonated with me because of the use of the word suffocated.. That is how I felt with mine.. He was attentive, caring, told me how beautiful and now much he loved me and dd things for me and I felt suffocated. I told him that.. I didn’t want to get any closer to him.. I had the feeling that I would actually stop breathing or that he would suck my breath out of me. Lately I have had some nightmare like dreams about him. A year ago is when we broke up or rather I knew for sure that I could not be with this man. That he was not good for me.. no matter how much he professed his love for me or how good we looked together as a couple or how helpful he was around the house.. he was leading me on a path to nowhere and it was making me sick and it always did even from the beginning.. it wwas too much, too soon, too fast and going nowhere good for me.
SUFFOCATED… he was sucking my life out of me.. trying to make me over in his image.. his spiritual twisted lost image.. and I wasn’t buying what he was selling…
Had I let him, he and his whole family would have dumped their neediness and dysfuction onto me and I would’ve been lost and not able to breathe. I wouldn’t lost me to make them feel more whole…
SUFFACATED.. if I ever feel that again .. I will run…
I used to cough when he would kiss me.. I would get a tickle in my throat.. When he wasn’t here .. I was fine.. he would try to kiss me and I would cough.. my whole being was rejecting him.. and while I heard myself and did hold back.. I should’ve never let him into my life….
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Tuesday, 2 March 2010 @ 9:02pm
hens says:
Exposing a Sociopath is risky behavior. They don’t like being exposed. Sometimes we have no choice. But it depends on who you talk too. In my case I spoke too someone who knows him and agreed with my opinion, but wasted no time in getting that info back to the Sociopath. And that is why I got an unexpected visit after a year and half no contact. As he had always threatened me before with ‘i will rock your world’ if you become a problem…So I dont want to antagonize something evil and unpredictable. There is no getting even or gettin revenge on them. Now I am not saying we should live in fear of them but until we out live them be cautious and carry a big stick.
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Tuesday, 2 March 2010 @ 9:25pm
witsend says:
Hi hens,
how are you tonight?
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Tuesday, 2 March 2010 @ 9:32pm
knowledgeempowers says:
No doubt about that! As he got worse I told the xP I had bought a gun, that we have the right to bare arms here. He asked what the gun was for and I told him so he can put himself out of his misery!
I do think deep inside thye are in misery. I always felt mine was anyway, like some internal struggle going on, not just about controling others but about himself. He knew and admitted his life was sh*t and while he would talk about that couldnt seem to do anything for himself to better it. I honestly dont think that was the pity me thing either, I think he truly felt it.
I mean what drives these ppl anyway? is it because others have better lives? others can take control of their lives and do things for themselves? others can feel love and genuinely know how to show it? Maybe its pure jealousy to some extent, that they can never be what others are and that helps drive their evilness? I just dont know.
I do know that I never want to live through another one of these kinds of relationships and find myself on high alert to these traits in others. So much so that the other day a male coworker who appears to be liking me a little too much said “you like me dont you” (I dont think it was relationship like?) and something about how “charming” he is. redflags for me, maybe really nothing but those words struck a cord. I responded to neither, I have barely talked to him. But the first time he ever saw me I was the only one he made long prolonged eye contact with, it was one of those that sent sparks. But since hes said these things I am being so cautious.
How can you know for sure? I dont want to be over cautious and push someone aside that could be genuine but also never want to go through this again.
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Tuesday, 2 March 2010 @ 9:59pm
one_step_at_a_time says:
hi hens – doxie’s are ballsy. one of my mom’s took on a deer. silly boy.
just wanted to check in and let people know i am okay. kind a. hope to be back soon.
xxooxxxo one step
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Tuesday, 2 March 2010 @ 10:15pm
witsend says:
One step
Glad you checked in…i been thinking about you and sending you good vibes.
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Tuesday, 2 March 2010 @ 10:22pm
one_step_at_a_time says:
thanks again witty. your note was what spurred to come here and check in.
one step
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Tuesday, 2 March 2010 @ 10:25pm
witsend says:
hens,
I think I need one of your dogs for a watch dog. My big dope of a dog barks every day at children that walk by the house and we live right by a school so these kids walk past every day. He barks at me every time I pull in the driveway. He barks at my older son when he pulls in the driveway. any of my friends that come over on a regular basis. He barks when they pull in the driveway.
My car wouldn’t start today and two complete strangers that he has never seen before pull in the driveway in a big loud tow truck. He jumped up to look out the window and watched them the entire time hook up my vehicle and pull it away. Never even made a sound!
Now what is wrong with this dog? Do you wanna trade?
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Tuesday, 2 March 2010 @ 10:30pm
one_step_at_a_time says:
witty – it’s the gin.
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Tuesday, 2 March 2010 @ 10:31pm
one_step_at_a_time says:
night night.
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Tuesday, 2 March 2010 @ 10:33pm
witsend says:
hens,
How bout your sons pit bull? will he trade me?
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Tuesday, 2 March 2010 @ 10:59pm
witsend says:
hens,
Lol…I really like pit bulls. But I am not a good dog trainer. My dogs always end up spoiled. And I think pit bulls need to be trained well.
Is your son a good dog trainer?
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Tuesday, 2 March 2010 @ 11:07pm
witsend says:
Hens,
I couldn’t trade my dog. He has those soulful sad eyes. Thats why he has his very OWN wingback chair in the living room.
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Tuesday, 2 March 2010 @ 11:09pm
OxDrover says:
Dear Henry,
For goodness sake KILL THAT NASTY POSSOM, relocation my butt! They are NASTY DISEASE CARRYING CRITTERS! YUK!!!
We have to make sure to keep the lid on livestock feed, cause if they get in it and pee, they carry a nasty neurological disease that will paralyze and kill a horse etc. NASTY, DISEASE CARRYING, Carion eating horrible critters!
Hope your Doxie survives, they are tough little dogs!
Well, folks, I am DONE!!! Got it all copied, organized, wrote the letter and DONE!!!!! The attorney can take it from here on in!
Had a great BIG salad for supper, with lots of raw veggies and even a little bit of chunks of ham in it! WOW! Dieting is okay! Loved being able to get into my black jeans even if they did have white dog hair on them! My Jack Russell has both black and white hairs, so he can SHED ON ANY COLOR and SHOW UP WELL! I think that dog sheds 24/7 and instead of dust bunnies, I have DOG BUNNIES under the furniture and around the base boards! Oh, well, now that the foot locker full of letters is done, I can clean house! Maybe I can stuff a pillow with the DOG BUNNIES I sweep up! TOWANDA FOR ME!!!!!!
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Tuesday, 2 March 2010 @ 11:18pm
witsend says:
hens,
I am partial to boxers to. I was actually looking for a boxer after my first dal died. But my friend found this dal at a shelter and of course I went there to see him….Well I couldn’t leave him there. I wanted to bring all the dogs home.
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Tuesday, 2 March 2010 @ 11:24pm
witsend says:
Oxy,
You go girl. Yeah we got a bunch of that black and white dog hair here to. After I sweep (wood floors) there is enough hair on the floor in a pile it looks like a small dead animal is lying there. LOL
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Tuesday, 2 March 2010 @ 11:27pm
witsend says:
hens,
I love the way boxers look. They just have that “look” about them. I never had one but always wanted one. They can be a handful to train, or so I have been told.
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Tuesday, 2 March 2010 @ 11:39pm
OxDrover says:
Dear Henry,
Silly man! There are just some things that DESERVE to DIE, and they go spreading disease every where they go, to say nothing of just plain UGLY! YUK–but enough of talking about Mike, how about talking about possoms? My great grandfather used to eat the nasty things! He would trap them and put them up in a cage for a week or two and feed them clean food, then kill them and my great grandmother would roast them. GREAZY NASTY THINGS I never could stand to smell them cooking even and I was a little kid. Like BIG RATS, but I guess if I was hungry I might eat a lot of things.
Yea, I feel like a great huge big heavy load has been lifted off my back. Did I say I feel light as a feather? So many times I started to throw those darned things out and I am SOOOO glad I didn’t now.
Funny thing, I have read them, at least some of them, probably 10-15 times each, and I am STILL finding “new” things in them that I never “saw” before. Things are making so much SENSE to me now that I am not filtering the content through the eyes of “MOTHER LOVE”—and instead looking at them the way I look at the possoms, just like nasty critters that have a musty funky smell and are uglier than sin!
I’ve seen these TV shows on other people’s TVs (with cable) that are the “Inside SUPER-MAX” type reality shows, that show convicts inside prisons and how they behave and look, etc. and you know, I can SEE my X-son-P in that through his letters, see him behaving like they do, see him being coarse and crude and repulsive, instead of being the well mannered bright guy he was before he morphed into a low-life convict.
But that “vision” doesn’t make me sick to my stomach any more, it doesn’t make me shudder with revulsion that my SON is living that way, IS that way, it is like a disconnect now. I think maybe this whole episode, as painful as it has been, is a kind of closure that I didn’t truly have when I “buried” that box with the “little boy” in it, I think I finally got my closure. Maybe I’m just fooling my self but doggonne, it sure FEELS LIKE REAL CLOSURE. No pain. No sadness. No sorrow. Just GONE!
I don’t even feel anger at son C any more, just I can’t trust him, just more indifference than anything, like I feel about the X-BF-P—shrug shoulders here—hate is not the opposite of love, indifference is the opposite love. I don’t want to hurt anyone (well except maybe Henry’s X LOL) or anything, I just want to go on living my life.
ps Henry, you ARE TOO NICE! (((hugs))))
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Tuesday, 2 March 2010 @ 11:41pm
geminigirl says:
Dearest Oxy, Im glad too, that you have all that paperwork behind you, and Im also glad that you have finally closed the chapter, and the lid on the box. Its very hard to get closure, you taught me that, we have to make our OWN closure. I think your doing great, and Im your No.1 fan, I have learned and am still learning so much from you. NC IS the only way forward, I know that now. As the weeks and months roll on, I think less and les of my spath daughters, but it also means Im prob not going to see much of my Grandkids. My SIL promised to bring them over Xmas or N.Year,–didnt happen. I now see he is not any more reliable than my daughter, and now Ive proof he is a liar too, and cant be trusted to deliver . he is also Narc. I suspect, but not a spath, I dont think.Anyway, TOWANDA for us, all all on LF!! We are all special! Love, and Hugs, and good luck with the dieting!! Mama Gem.XX
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Tuesday, 2 March 2010 @ 11:50pm
geminigirl says:
Oxy, If you can wield a cyber skillett, I am sending you a cyber cupcake with fresh cream and pink icing! hell, not one,-a dozen! I hope you enjoy them!!YUM!!! ENJOY!!!
Mama Gem.XXX
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Tuesday, 2 March 2010 @ 11:52pm
ErinBrock says:
Oxy, I’m glad you’ve set that bird to fly.
What a release for you!
A lot of work…..but filled your head with more healing…..in the process!
Congrats…..
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Tuesday, 2 March 2010 @ 11:57pm
ErinBrock says:
It’s my once monthly rant…..
I HATE MY PARENTS!!!!
Why is it they call right as I’m hitting my monthly cycle?????
WHY do I even oblige them with answering????
I’m banging head on the wall…..
Is anything changing EB…..NO…..why, do you expect it to????
I know better…..I HATE THEM!!!!
I realilzed the denial I was raised with, and disposed of in my own life……and I know I can’t control thier denial…..but it fuckenig pisses me off when I ‘hear’ it……over and over and over……
I was offended by the conversation…..
They dogged my sick Uncle….were vicious and cruel in their statements about him……and other family members that are struggeling to care for him…..as if they were not doing enough….
I listened with my ‘filters’ on…..and heard the buck passing and anger towards my aunt and uncle for leaving their vicinity and moving 8 hours away….
I heard them go into a diatribe about how A & U would NEVER come /rush to their aid if they were in Uncles position…..they would abandon them…..
And I heard how they sooooo go out of their way for A&U, visit them, arrange for special vacations yadayada……as if they are the kings of respit care…..
I’m listening to their martyr speach…..as if they have soooo gone a huge distance…..THEY havne’t visited A & U in like a year??? They have traveled together…..but they all get pleasure from that…..
ANd then….as I’m listening I thinking…….WHAT THE FUCK DIDYOU DO FOR ME…your friggen daughter……when I was sick? JUDGE ME, TAKE MY KIDS, AND ABANDON ME……..
I was sickened and angered by this call…..AGAIN…..
And it ended in a standard…>DENIAL way….
When the kids came up…..and I said….they don’t trust you…..this is why you don’t hear from them……they immediatly remmebered they had somehting to do made excuses as if to cut me off….
I told them to fuck off and take their denial with them….and hung up!!!
I am so angry……I need to unleash these emotions, go NC and let these toxic people out of my life……the only way I can end it is to NOT PARTICIPATE……kill them off in my mind…..they are dead and don’t exist!
Sorry….had to get this out…..
Not much good tonight……sorry guys!
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 3 March 2010 @ 12:14am
geminigirl says:
EB, Im so sorry that you have been so upset by your spath parents remember what the Lord Buddha said,
“Walk on!”
And Christ called them”Whitened sepulchres, full of dead mens bones!” he also said.”let the dead bury their dead, shake the dust off your sandals, and Walk on!”
You will NEVER change them, I have brothers like this, they are in total denial. According to them,Im the crazy one, because I dare to tell the truth, and they cant hack it!
Dont allow them to take up any more space in your head!
Love, and {{HUGS!!}} Gem. Oh by the way, you are also sent a dozen cyber cupcakes,{totally non-fattening!}XXX
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 3 March 2010 @ 1:08am
shabbychic says:
EB, I am sending positive thoughts and energy your way. I wish I could say something that would help. I like what gem said… walk on!
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 3 March 2010 @ 1:45am
ErinBrock says:
Thanks guys…..
Wow…..let the tears roll…..(I think that was a Cars song from the 80’s)?….oh yeah….it was good times roll…..
I’ve been in tears…..like major….
My son came in and just gave me a very insightful lesson on family and his view of me.
He said….I care too much.
He’s never met any person who cares as much as me…..
So….I always thought that would be a good thing……according to him….it’s NOT!
I can’t let the world dictate how I love and care……
I NEED to change my fantasy of my view of others……
WHY is it too much to ask for someone in a family to ‘have your back’……I THOUGHT THIS WAS NORMAL familial behaviors……
He says I just need to vapor lock em….poof…..
I just don’t know how to do this? Poof…..
I’m more of a processer than a poofer…..he says I think too much. (I’d have to agree with that)
Ofcourse…..today of ALL days…..with the S in town…..and the parents calling……and other worries…..I MUST GET THE MONTHLY HORMONALS TOO!!!!!
SHit!!!!
My son seems to think my grieving is taking too long!
Little does he know….I’m just getting around to the parental grief gig…..HA!
Funny this is all coming from a teenager……
It scares me to hear him think of family as disposable……I understand it, because this is what has been done to them……it’s just us now…..out of 2 sides of extended family….it’s just us! How sick…..
Just 5 years ago….we’d have 26 family members staying at our home…..for the holidays…..
Now…it’s just us…………WHAT THE FUCK DID MY KIDS DO TO DESERVE THIS ABANDONMENT>…..
And they justify it with….an I don’t give a shit..POOF….VAPOR LOCKED!
But I do!
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 3 March 2010 @ 2:29am
ErinBrock says:
I am going to bed…..because I DO KNOW…..
Tomorrow will be a new day…..
Night night and thanks again to you all for your support!
XXOO
EB
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 3 March 2010 @ 2:41am
blueskies says:
Erin:(xxx I hope you are doing okay.
I agree with what hens said ‘they think we are crazy, they even convince us that we are. But we know better now.’ I wonder if you feel similar to how I have been feeling:( I am sorry if you are… once you have your ‘filters’ on you cant tolerate sitting and listening to it without feeling the stress they emminate with their BS that somehow once you were able to absorb:( That you refuse it is surely a healthier thing!
the anger needs to come out but I for one hope to walk away from that ASAP too.
I think you cant do anything but remove yourself from it (… its scary(well it was for me) and isolating…especially with family…but I have nothing to do but keep walking.
let the parasites slither away.
Much love to Erin B.xxxx
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 3 March 2010 @ 5:19am
kim frederick says:
Good morning, EB. I hope you got a good nights sleep, and are back to your usual kick -ass self!
I’m sorry you had a @$#%&# up day yesterday, I’m hoping today will be better.
Here’s a bit of good news: the monthly hormonals eventually stop. Mine have, and I’ve never felt better!
I wish I could promise you parentpause, soon…but alas, that is out of my hands.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 3 March 2010 @ 8:13am
kim frederick says:
Hey, I just thought of a good one. Whenever we feel emotionally triggered, we could say, we are going through psychopause. Yes, that’s it.
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Wednesday, 3 March 2010 @ 8:16am
learnthelesson says:
EB-
Good morning to you!
Just want you to know, I become the most reflective and insightful during my once a month time too! Oh and I cant forget to mention sensitive and all over the place and extra exhausted and hungry etc.
— but somewhere in the throws of it all — I make the most sense and learn ions during that time of the month.
But I do look forward to what Kim shared above! You had a moment last night that youre entitled to – its called feeling your feelings and getting out what youre feeling… we have to do that sometimes or it just builds up. hope youre feeling ok today. Until you sort out how you want to go forward… Mark your calendar (DEF NO ANSWER PHONE ZONE) during the days you know your ability to deal with their bullshit is off limits during that time.
And remember you dont need 26 family members to make beautiful meaningful memories – you and your kids have eachother and the love and closeness of these times together far outweigh the stress and dysfunction of time spent with ” less than healthy” family members pretending together.
You can care about others and them too. Its the boundaries you have to have firmly in place. Speaking of teenagers, my middle daughter has a gf that is making poor choices, boys, drugs, alcohol — but my daughter said to me ” but she is one of my best friends – I know how to be friends with her mom — I just make sure we get together a few hours after school – she is ok to be with then . I just dont ever agree to go out with her at night — during the day we go to Starbucks or do homework and she is normal ” I know how to be friends with her.” So I said WHAT kind of friendship is that? where you have to be aware of “how to be with her/when to be with her” — how is that true friendship? She said, its all I can offer her, I like her, but I dont like her choices, so I found a way to still stay friends with her a few days a week, during the day only. I dont like her choices at night and on weekends.
I felt conflicted for my daughter. Seemed like all the makings of a toxic friendship. Even for my daughter to have to “concoct” “premeditate” a way to be friends. But she was protecting herself and tyring to find the balance. All in all life is just so complicated. We all can just try to do our best, know our limits and set boundaries — and follow them to best of our ability. Live and learn.. But by the time I will have learned all I need to live — I ll be dead. Why cant it be learn and live??? And why cant we get all of our lessons under our belt by 30??????
Im pouring tea for you and I made brownies for kids yesterday soooo..im setting your teacup and brownie plate out right next to me for a good old fashioned pick me up mornin!!! Its that time of month for us EB!!!!!!!!!!!!! xoxooxo x(((HUGS))
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Wednesday, 3 March 2010 @ 9:56am
OxDrover says:
Dear EB,
Back “in the days” when I still had those monthly melt downs (Ah,yes, the memories!) it was almost as if I would be irritable and it took that irritablity to make me stand up for myself. LOL Of course, once the “time” passed, so did me being irritable and I got into my “rational door mat” pose for the rest of the month.
I think you said a mouth full though when you said you need to go NC with them. I know KNOW it was difficult for me to even realize that NC with my “family” was POSSIBLE much less, DESIRABLE, it just was UNthinkable really.
But when I finally considered it, (that hurt) and then DID it, (that hurt more for a while) I am now coming out of the FOG, the FEAR, OBLIGATION and GUILT.I am no longer FEARFUL of her “lack of love” or “withholding love” and I no longer feel guilty because I didn’t take care of her in her old age, she TOOK my legal ability to do that when she canceled my power of attorney—so I’m out of the F.O.G. and it feels GREAT!
EB, getting these people out of our lives and heads FREES us, and is like a weight lifted off our back. Sure it is a bit of a pain to finally DO it, to ACT on what we know is right, but gosh, in the end, it FREES US from another TOXIC weight on our backs. ((((hugs)))))
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Wednesday, 3 March 2010 @ 12:24pm
witsend says:
Erinbrock,
The thing is that when it comes to family, it is hard to wrap our brain around not having contact with them. It seems un-natural to even do so. It kind of goes against what we have always thought….
However, that said…There is no one out there in the world that can “hurt” us in the SAME powerful way our family might continue to hurt us if we allow ourselves to never make the changes necessary, to stop it. Once and for all.
Sometimes that does mean N/C. The other option is to search your soul to see if you can detach emotionally from them enough to the extent where you just simply engage with them on your terms. And your terms only. They cross the boundary you walk away, hang up, whatever. To get to that point of emotional detachment though, with your family of origin is very, very difficult.
And possibly the only reason you might even consider it would be if you believe that your kids DO get some benifit from your parents being in their lives. If you don’t believe they offer your kids something positive and you know they don’t offer you anything positive, then N/C would actually be a better choice.
Of course the other choice is limited contact but it seems that is more where you are at right now.
It is hard to let go of family. Because when you let go of them you are also letting go of so many of the false beliefs.
Many of these false beliefs we have had for our entire lives.
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Wednesday, 3 March 2010 @ 12:56pm
ErinBrock says:
You are all so very right on!
THANKS!
That’s what I have wrestled with…..the ‘family’ part…..
It’s unnatural…..but so is the way they treat me…
Limited contact isn’t working for ME….and what makes me angry is is seems to work for them…..they are the ones happy with just having any contact withme…..but NOT being the parents I expected/wanted/needed….
So…..why am I continuing limited contact if I’m not reaping anything but continued reminders of WHO they are, pain and frustration..?
I’m at NC Point now!
I won’t do this anymore…..I can’t!
Thanks for the love guys……it’s very comforting to know there is somewhere to come to express the good the bad and the ugly!!!
XXOO
EB
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Wednesday, 3 March 2010 @ 4:16pm
OxDrover says:
Dear EB,
I was raised that “family is EVERYTHING” and that protecing the public image of the family is EVERYTHING and that we had to do whatever it took to protect that image no matter what. That family could crap on you, and you could not even resent it or get angry without risking “GOING TO HELL!” That this angry god who knew all your thoughts would ZAP ya if you even THOUGHT anything different. You had to NOT QUESTION this—OR ELSE.
There were times when I was SOOOO angry withh my egg donor that I would refuse to speak to her for months or years, like when she let my P son come to live at her house to “give him another chance” because (supposedly) I wasn’t a good parent and SHE was wiser. She took over my child against my will and let him do things I thought were BAD.
I didn’t talk to her for a long time, but then…..well, I got sucked back into her and his web when the cops got on to him up close to her house and were about to arrest him for stealing, so he decided he needed to “come back home”—well, that peace didn’t last long, and she and I were both then in the same “camp” trying to save him when he got in trouble with the law in Florida, she even came down there to try to talk some sense into him. NO AVAIL.
BUT it NEVER EVEN CROSSED MY MIND that I didn’t have to have any contact with her, that I could DIVORCE HER!
I look back now and I see lots of times I had plenty of “justification” to divorce her, just like a cheating husband that did it over and over and over—same with P-son, and each time I would “forgive and forget” and go on playing “let’s pretend we are a nice normal family” and keeping the FAMILY SECRETS from everyone outside the family. Up to 15 years after P-son committed murder when WE were preparijng to help him get out on parole and come “home” we had to admit it to a few closer friends to get them to write letters to the parole board “vouching” for the fact we were a “NICE NORMAL FAMILY” who would give him the support he needed to live a God-fearing, law-abiding life on parole. Even some of egg donor’s “closest” friends though (like the Minister I talked to later to no avail) were NOT told that P-son was a murderer, or even that he had been in prison for 15 years (this time)
Keep that “dirty linen” hidden, pretend everything is lovely! I can’t believe I bought into that crap.
Your parents, in my humble, or not-so-humble, opinion, are just pretending that THEY ARE “Loving parents” to you, a troublesome child. It is all about their DELUSIONS that THEY are GOOD PARENTS. Not that you deserve loving parents, because they are NOT loving parents. It is all a pretense on THEIR part, and if you have contact with them, they can DELUDE themselves. YOU are the problem, not them, of course in THEIR view.
If they were not good parents to you, what makes you think for one minute that they are good grandparents to your children?
That’s the hard thing to grasp! It is against everything we have been told or taught about “loyalty” and “blood” and all that crap! All those FALSE assumptions we go on and can’t figure out why it doesn’t work. Well, we HAVE finally figured out that it is NOT us, and we cannot change THEM, so something has to give. We either have to go on accepting villification or choking down what we know is the truth and pretending it isn’t the truth, and continue to feel bad. I vote we kick’em all to the curb. If it isn’t a GOOD healthy relationship why on God’s green earth do we NEED it? I vote we don’t need it. Just MHO. ((((Hugs)))) and God bless.
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Wednesday, 3 March 2010 @ 6:16pm
one_step_at_a_time says:
hi erin,
read your above posts about your son and your parents.
your son is young. he doesn’t know some things yet. check in when he is your age and see if he thinks family is so disposable and vapor locking so easy. k? he’s young.
as we get older – as i get older, deal with more illness and difficulty, i mourn more the bs family i have.
i was walking home today and a car went past – thought it was my folks – i turned my head to see if it was – and it was like a stop frame movie….daughter on the side of the road, parents a million miles away in another universe, driving past. it was odd. but i was okay. they is toxic and i don’t need it.
i kicked my sister last fall too. nc with her since july or august. dad since november. i don’t really want to be nc with mom – she is ill, she can’t help her toxicity, but i can’t communicate with his holiness at all, and would have to to talk to her.
i am sorry your family were not there for you – in any way. it is so obvious when we are sick. when i was staying with my folks and taking care of my mom i hemorrhaged. ended up in hospital having a transfusion – my father was packing to go away for the winter – could leave anytime – i called a friend to come get me and take me to the hospital. and dad didn’t even inquire if i needed his help in any way. i was sitting there all bundled up waiting for my friend and he sat there complaining about my poor demented mom not packing quick enough. fucking N. this is a tiny example…nothing like the sort of drawn out experience you had with c, but i felt the searing and severing of it.
and now your folks have the audacity to complain about your A&U. fuuuuuck.
eb – i know it will hurt like hell to let that hope and desire for family fall to dust. but you are strong and letting them out of your life will make your heart safer, oh warrior queen.
i wonder what is in store for us, when we let these things go that we want so much, that are only shells, shadows of what we really deserve. what comes to us then? who do we become, we parentless women? real? do we become real by getting real? if we are not using our energy to hold up a shell, fill it for them and us…..if we let these things go, what will we be?
love one step
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Wednesday, 3 March 2010 @ 10:47pm
ErinBrock says:
I need to let that weight just fall……BOOM….
What made me sad about my sons comments was just how ‘normal’ and ‘everyday’ he views this…..
I didn’t want my kids to be abandoned by ANYONE let alone family and take it so cavelier…..but this is all they have known really…..S has always disposed of people….
I got a very interesting call today…..
From S’s uncle…..he basically raised the S…..they used to be very close until uncle met wife…..kids…yada….no longer the cool single uncle…..and pulled away into his new life….S resented him….his wife, his kids…
S always resented his ‘change’ in growing up…..they are about 13 years apart….
Uncle has always had respect for me….I’ve never done anything but been there for them….and his parents….(S’s G. parents.) We have had unlimited business minded conversations….deep, intelectual, power meeting type conversations…..brain storming etc…. the S is an idiot with no vocabulary and no sense…..so all he could talk about was skunk bud etc….His family respected my intelect….
Would call me to bounce off ideas….the S hated this….IT”S MY FAMILY!
So…he was calling to get our address….Grama passed away last week and left a little something for the G. kids….
Funny thing was…..my kids are her great g. kids…..and they get their fathers ’share’…..he get’s nothing! He always considered himself their favorite g. son….he gloated about this….
HA!
Uncle asks how we are and I said GREAT….In my happiest,smiley mentrual voice!
He says ….how’s the kids….(remember, the kids NONE of S’s family has anything to do with these days)….I said….it’s been a struggle for them…..
They want nothing to do with their father…and haven’t spoken to him in 2 years….and dont plan on it….he’s out of their lives…
He asks…..EB….WHAT HAPPENED?????…..
I gave him the simple version……S’s whole life has been a lie and I needed to protect my kids….as their parent. He’s NOT the person he’s portrayed to ALL of us! He’s NONE of that person. I had to protect my kids.
He goes on to say…..S is an angry person…..
I guess he’s mad at me now, why I’m not sure….
but he’s not speaking to me…..
He’s got real problems.
I simply said……count your blessings!
I said the real problems lie within him…..but he is not cabable of taking responsibility….he will push blame and deflect onto others….
I loved that man and you know, I gave him my best, I tried to build a family…..but HE”S GOT DEMONS!!!
I said, he continues the cycle of his mother/your sister….with his kids…..yet with abuse!
Each generation adds their own signiture to their abandonment.
I’m trying to give my kids a healthy environment…..
I said it was a shame that none of them are in contact with the kids…..me aside….what about the kids?
It was an interesting coversation, he asked , he listened….it was very simple…..but I hung up feeling like ‘he knew’…….
I felt a validation….and certainly a little snicker for the kids…..getting the s’s share of the ship he spent his life waiting for to come in to HIS harbor…..
It was a ‘nice way’ to start the day!!!
Thanks guys….your really angels!!!
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Thursday, 4 March 2010 @ 12:13am
shabbychic says:
EB, I am so glad you felt validated, finally, by someone in S’s family!!!! Great that you were able to at least give the simple version to the uncle. I have a big snicker for your kids! This is so coooooooooool !!!! HAHA to the S.
Oh, last night when I read what your son said “poof… vapor locked!” my very first thought about this was: somebody’s been playing video games!! Typical kid!! Wouldn’t that be great if we could go through life and just zap assclowns off the face of the earth?!! Yeah!
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Thursday, 4 March 2010 @ 1:34am
ErinBrock says:
I told the kids tonight that Uncle X had called…..various reactions….all negative….
I said….whoa…hold your thoughts kiddo’s….
One said….oh, what, they said sorry, they love us and your sucked back in and we have to go visit……helllooooo Mom….
I said NO…..but I did get a chance to speak a bit of my peace…
AND…..he asked!
I said….he had a reason for his call……
they wouldn’t shut up……each making a negative comment…..
so I just sat there…..finally, one said….okay…..tell us….why he called?
I said…..Your grandmother left you some money……
Oh…ya oughta see the reaction then…..
They said….but do we have to go down and pick it up? I said,No….he’s mailing it……
One said…..I don’t care…..hmmmmm but I do need a car…..it seems sad that I care if it’s money…….can i turn it down….
I said NO….your Grandmother wanted you guys to have it….it was her wishes……
VAPOR LOCK MoNEY…..are you nuts!!!!
They said…….so does this mean S get’s money too……I said…..well actually, YOU ALL GET HIS SHARE!!!!
Oh, the looks on that…It was priceless!!!!
Laughter erupted! THey know when he finds out he’s gonna be pissed his snot nose brats are getting something he feels entitled to……
Yeah…..with the Uncle…..I never went into the Sociopathic speal……I knew I’d lose him…..I had to take it ‘gentle’ as to be heard and didn’t want to come off as bitter, more indifferent about the S and concentrated on the kids…….if I ever see him down the road……that’ll be a conversation for later……I’ll let him read my book!
Timing is everything!!!
Oh…….the reason the Uncle called ME was because he knew I would handle the money in a responsible fashion as the G. parents wanted for the kids……
Shit…..they are his kids and it’s HIS family……why wouldn’t he have been the contact???
BECAUSE THEY KNEW/KNOW!!!!!
No……they contact the ex wife!!! MOI!
Oh……don’t think it won’t be ‘fed’ throughout the family, brother will tell him, because the S’s roll was mudslinger….they would all go to him and complain about each other and he would go and ’stand up’ for whoever dujour sent him……..and his dickwad/whipped/brainwashed brother…..who tried to proxy alienate me from MIL……fuck him……he’s gonna have to be a bigger babysitter than he knows of…..and don’t think he won’t be on the wrath end of S’s attack mode again….one day…….
Oh, this is classssiiiic!
HA!
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Thursday, 4 March 2010 @ 2:42am
OxDrover says:
Dear Erin,
Well, I’m glad that your kids were given some inheritence from the g-grandmother. Apparently, the old lady “got” something or she would have left it to her grandson the kids’ sperm donor. So you might consider that too.
Glad that Uncle X did sort of get it too. Yea, that family will LIVE in turmoil forever, just like your bio-family will. So there’s no need for us to heap vengence upon their heads, they are their own worst enemies.
Congratulations! To both you and your kids.
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Thursday, 4 March 2010 @ 12:35pm
Matt says:
Ms Erin:
Loved the story. What I love most about it is how the g-grandmother gave the S a lovely parting gift of “fuck you.” How beautifully she executed it. What’s S gonna do? Go yell at her gravestone?
Been absolutely crazed as I get ready for my move and new job. Painted my place top to bottom in one week. I finally reazlized I was so crazed that I may hold off listing it for a bit, just until I’m sure I’m on steady ground in my new locale. What is it they say the biggest stressors in life are? Job change? Moving? All I know is I”m going through all of them at once.
My friends have been wonderful. Everybody has been taking me out for drinks, lunch and dinner. I am having a hard time with the concept of moving from my home of 24 years – NYC. But, it is a great job. Anyhow, back to filling out the 10 thousand forms my new employer wants me to fill out before Monday.
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Thursday, 4 March 2010 @ 9:16pm
one_step_at_a_time says:
Matt – all best wishes!!!
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Thursday, 4 March 2010 @ 10:56pm
silvermoon says:
I like to think of him as a Dark Angel.
The results will ultimately be very good for me even if achieving them came under a less thatn pretty stimulus.
He did grant me the favor of it at the expense of my fantasy.
We didn’t get to the part where he was being mean and I didn’t know about all the snealy crap or discover the lies until after he was taken.
All in all I am lucky and I can find some gratefulness for what will come of it for me.
I hope that it buys him some grace somewhere down the line because I can’t fix things for him and I can’t go back.
I can let go with love and let go so that I can go on.
He came into my life for a reason. And his work is done now.
Its time for me to let go.
I’ve been through stuff in the last two years that should have killed me stress wise.
But you know what they say: He who is born to hang will never drown.
Good to be in the pond with all of you!
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Friday, 5 March 2010 @ 2:58am
OxDrover says:
Dear Silvermoon,
I loved your post, and I am glad that you can see the UP side of this dark cloud!
If you have been under a great deal of stress, which takes its toll on our bodies and our minds, the best thing I think we can do is to keep the STRESS IN OUR LIVES DOWN to the lowest level possible for a year or two.
The hormones released by high stress do a number on our thinking, our ability to heal (our immune systems) and lots of parts of our bodies. Taking time to keep changes to a minimum is the best thing, I think, for ourselves. Avoid anything that will upset us, and that includes ALL people who do not give us peace and love,
Like Matt, going through the stress of leaving his long time home (BIG STRESS) and changing jobs (ANOTHER BIG STRESS) he is looking at the BIG picture about “maybe this job won’t work out and I might need to come back to my home) so he is place ready to sell, but hanging on to it for a little while longer. He’s taking time to spend time with his good friends as well even though he is busy getting ready for the new job and the move.
He is already in a good solid relationship, but if he were not,, NOW would NOT be a good time to start one because new relationships are always stressful even if it is “good stress”–
It takes TIME with low stress to over come times of high stress, so we say here BE GOOD TO YOURSELF! Problem is, many of us have never done that, or don’t know how, so it is a learning process too!
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Friday, 5 March 2010 @ 1:01pm