Attracting a new relationship after the sociopath
Lovefraud recently received the following e-mail from a reader:
I have a question for you. I’ve been divorced for 3 years now from my ex-husband who had a porn addiction. I’ve tried the Internet dating sites on and off since, and have had nothing but bad experiences. What do you suggest I do/ how do I go about finding someone? I am really lonely and would like to have a man in my life. However, I’m so afraid of attracting the wrong kind still. If you have any suggestions, I’d be happy to hear them.
If you’ve had a run-in with a sociopath, before attempting to date again, you must first heal yourself. If you’re feeling lonely and afraid, it is an indication that you are not yet healed.
I believe that circumstances and situations come into our lives as a result of our internal states. The energy and emotions that we have within us are like giant magnets, bringing us more of the same. Perhaps you’ve heard this concept described as “The Law of Attraction.” I think it’s a real phenomenon, because I’ve seen it operate in my own life, whether I liked the results or not.
Negative emotion
When sociopaths come into our lives, they bring emotional betrayal, physical assault, financial ruin, psychological manipulation, family devastation—far more trauma than any of us ever bargained for. As a result, we are crushed, afraid, angry, frightened. Often our lives are on the verge of collapse.
We are overwhelmed by negative emotion and energy, which is totally understandable. So what happens? We get more of the same.
It happened in my life, and I’ve seen it in countless Lovefraud stories. The sociopath cheats on us, and we’re in a car crash. The sociopath takes all our money, and then we lose our jobs. The sociopath ruins our marriage, and then we get cancer or some other major illness.
So what are we to do?
Feel the pain
I believe that we must get the negative emotion and energy out of our systems. And the way to do this is to allow ourselves to feel the pain.
Usually, this means crying. Of course, we’ve all probably spent hours and hours crying, and we’re tired of it. We just want to stop. But the pain caused by the sociopath goes very deep, especially if we’ve had the predator in our lives for many years—years that we stuffed our emotions, afraid to let ourselves feel what we were really feeling. It may take a long time to release the pent-up tears.
Then there’s the anger. Anger is a physical sensation—just because we know why we’re angry doesn’t make it go away. Anger needs to be released appropriately. (It does no good to confront the sociopath, and may make matters worse.) My method of choice for releasing anger is visualizing the sociopath’s face on a pillow, and then pounding the crap out of it. The idea is to do something physical—stomping the floor, twisting towels—until we feel an emotional release.
But what often happens as we work on releasing the pain caused by the sociopath is that we find more pain beneath it. This may be disappointment in previous love relationships, anger at mistreatment during our childhoods, betrayal bonds with other people who abused us.
These are the negative emotions that attracted the sociopath in the first place.
In my case, I was lonely, even desperate, when the sociopath showed up on my doorstep. During all of my 20s and 30s, I couldn’t get a relationship with a man to work. I now know that it was due to my internal state, as described above. But when I turned 40, feeling that biological clock ticking, wanting to make a connection—well, I was primed to be plucked. Attracted by my negative internal energy, the sociopath swooped in.
With the devastation wrought by the sociopath, my pain moved to the focus of my awareness. I processed it. It was all I could do.
This is not pretty, so it is best done alone (unless you’ve got a really good therapist who can be with you through it). And it will take repeated sessions. You’ll release some, and more will bubble to the surface. Just keep releasing, until you drain the well of pain.
Healthy and peaceful
Then an amazing thing happens—when you purge the negative energy, it is replaced by peace, hope and self-love.
I am here to tell you that it works. Changing my internal state, moving from desperate to peaceful, made all the difference in the world. Not long after I began feeling better, I met the man who became my husband—in a bar.
Some people say you can’t meet anyone worthwhile in a bar, but location is not the issue. The issue is your internal state. If you’re feeling positive, healthy and peaceful, an appropriate person will just show up.
My husband and I have been together for eight years. We are happy. Our relationship is comfortable and easy. There are no games, only love. And our love is not a lie—it’s the real thing.
written by Donna Andersen • Permalink •
breckgirl says:
What a timely post Dona- thak you-
I am still feeling lonely and afraid myself. And I think your advice is exactly right. So I am now going to reapply myself ever more diligently to the healing process.
Not because I want a man so much as i want to be free of the internal yuck that has been rotting in there for years and years.
Hmmmm- that makes me think of a great analogy – the stench of our internal rot based on previous abuse, self doubt, lack of strong boundaries and neediness sends out an unconcious scent to them like carrion to hyenas and they come and feed on us.
I want to scrape myself clean – pull out the rot and grow a healthy garden inside.
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Monday, 14 September 2009 @ 11:12am
breckgirl says:
Arrrgh typos again! LOL
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Monday, 14 September 2009 @ 11:12am
Stargazer says:
This is really a great article. I had to cry a lot to get the sociopath out of my system. I turned to a spiritual source for help, and slowly over time felt the negativity draining from my system. I cried more tears than I could ever imagine. It has been over a year and I can honestly say I have purged the sociopath out of my system. The one part of it that has remained is that I feel some responsibility to warn people about sociopaths and to help others who have gotten played by them. I would be lying, though, if I said that I feel wonderful now that the sociopath is out of my life. I am now dealing with the underlying depression that brought him into my life in the first place. It’s not easy, and I am not in a place of being totally happy yet. I recently had my first real romantic date since the sociopath. Though it was really wonderful, it also made me realize the areas in my life where I’m not yet happy and complete. I am doing my best to work on these areas so I can attract a good man who can give me what I need. This latest date was just a little appetizer.
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Monday, 14 September 2009 @ 11:27am
justabouthealed says:
Good for you Stargazer!
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Monday, 14 September 2009 @ 12:26pm
OxDrover says:
Dear Donna,
Thank you for this post, great article!
While we are WOUNDED and in pain (for whatever reason) or LONELY and/or desperate for a relationship to “save” us from our lonliness, we are VULNERABLE to the predators in our midst. they home in on us with their “radar” that tells them we are “easy prey” where a healthier individual would not put up with their tactics for one second, we in our pain, see them as a “salvation”—-bingo! We are HOOKED.
Becoming emotionally healthy is the way to have a healthy relationship and attract a healthy partner. Healthy partners are not going to be attracted to people who are unhealthy.
That was sure the case with my situation after my husband’s death and I attracted a psychopath looking for prey! No MORE!!!!
I’m glad you found your “prince” and that your relationship is stable and good and loving! I wish the same for all of us, but we must “get healthy” to attract that and to hang on to it!
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Monday, 14 September 2009 @ 2:54pm
justabouthealed says:
I agree with the post in part, in that I think psychopaths tend to hit on people when they are vulnerable. And maybe this post is most true for romantic relationships.
Part of me still rebels. Maybe it was because I raised in a church that states emphatically that like attracts. Maybe so, but that is an awful burden to put on someone who has just been diagnosed with a terrible disease. I remember when one person asked me what kind of thoughts I had been thinking to cause my disease! Another said to embrace what my disease had to teach me. I about told her to embrace my knuckle and see what THAT had to teach HER! LOL! Sometimes *hit happens! Maybe I was thinking WONDERFUL thoughts that turned a killer disease into one that just disabled. GRRR!!!
Also, I’ve seen P’s do amazing damage in the workplace, affecting hundreds of people’s lives, and surely all of them did not attract that to themselves. Some were very happy, positive people! Sometimes you are just in the wrong place at the wrong time. And sometimes it takes awhile to realize that and move out!
Well, random thoughts. I just think there are MANY ways that P’s work into our lives and MANY ways to recover and rebound with joy.
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Monday, 14 September 2009 @ 3:09pm
skylar says:
Donna, it seems a bit confusing because there are so many ways to look at it. None of them completely cover every scenario.
For instance, what about people who are born to P parents?
I was. As a newborn, I do not think I did anything to attract them.
Also, there is the instance of good people attracting evil P’s simply BECAUSE they are good. They are attracted to good people because good people have what they don’t. They are always looking to fill a vaccuum created by pathological envy.
Lastly, there is a theory that good attracts a small amount of evil in order to protect itself from greater evil. Like a vaccine, this small amount opens up the awareness of evil and allows the good person to protect themselves from a greater evil. We have all experienced that here at LF, our innocence was ripped from us like in a psychological rape but we are now less vulnerable to it because we are vigilent. Since we all survived the rape we are less likely to become murder victims.
Maybe it seems like we attract better things by being less desperate and more joyful, but maybe it is not a matter of attraction, maybe it is just that we notice the good things and don’t get drawn to the drama of the bad things anymore. So it seems like we are attracting different things, when in fact we are just being attracted to different things. All the same objects, events and people are still swirling around us, just like before, but now our attention is focused differently. Now we are seeing everything more clearly and we are making better, wiser choices.
Illness, seems to be my body’s attempt to wake me up and broaden my focus.
I posted an interesting video about focus a while back, but can’t find the link now. Does anyone remember the link to the basketball players in white teeshirts?
these thoughts are just random, idle musings on a very interesting topic. Obviously if I really knew what I was talking about I would have a life.
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Monday, 14 September 2009 @ 4:05pm
Carmendahling says:
Dear Skylar et al,
Many times I’ve wondered if the wisdom learned from the agony is worth having gone through it over and over and finally I feel innoculated. Even though it seems I’ve earned a phd in sociaothpaths/psycopaths through experience and reading everything I can find; I know even still I could be fooled again. My prayer is daily and fervrent to recognize even the most sublte predator, manipulator who might be deceiving my loved ones or me. It is amazing now how I’m, quickly spotting major red flags that in the past would have excused and given the benefit of the doubt ad nauseum. Restoring our boundaries is at the core of all this heartache, and it is possible and prayer really strengthens our boundaries and enlightens our wisdom.
God Bless and Protect You All,
Carmendahling
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Monday, 14 September 2009 @ 5:01pm
Donna Andersen says:
Skylar,
I readily admit that this theory does not seem to apply in many situations, such as in your example of the child born to psychopathic parents. But I believe it does, although the explanation is complicated.
My upcoming book, “Cracked Open – How My Marriage to a Sociopath Led to Spiritual Healing,” explains how it works. I’m polishing the book up now and hope to have it published by the spring.
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Monday, 14 September 2009 @ 5:20pm
justabouthealed says:
Here is my non-metaphysical advice to the person who wrote the question posed at the start of this blog:
1) get very clear about what you will and won’t accept in a relationship. Write it down. Share it with girlfriends you trust, or a therapist. Resolve to stick to it. Have a PLAN of how to exit relationships that aren’t working.
2) get very clear about the “must have’s” in a man. For me it includes emotionally stable, not moody. Honesty. Strong ethics. Strong respect for women. Intelligent. Make your list. No one is perfect, don’t get too detailed. Focus on the “MUST HAVES’ that deal with the character of him. Again, have an exit plan for men that don’t rise to your standards.
3) Get insight into your own vulnerabilities so you can watch out for them. For me, I’m too easily swayed by romantic words. A good book for getting insights into yourself is The New Personality Self-Portrait: Why You Think, Work, Love and Act the Way You Do. http://astore.amazon.com/darwi.....0553373935 Think ahead of time how you will control your urges that lead you in the wrong direction!
4) It is best to avoid meeting online. You are missing the clues that we pick up in the first 30 seconds when we meet someone . And you get involved, a bit, before you have that vital non-verbal information about the person. Your gut doesn’t have much of a chance to give you feedback.
Instead, try to think if you have any interests that would allow you to meet men, in a natural, non-predatory setting. And if you don’t meet a promising man, at least you will have had a good time pursuing your interest, or new interest. Volunteer for a search and rescue team, go to a bird watching festival (more men than women, suprisingly), a home depot store and take your time picking out stuff
, join a gym, take up canoeing, go walk your dog around starbucks, in parks, etc. and make eye contact. Take up photography and join a club. Stamp collecting…whatever truly speaks to you. And you might just find you have a wonderful time even if no men show up!
4) Projecting confidence and enthusiasm (as Donna alludes to) is very important. If you have never done so before, try a mixed martial arts class. Or even a class for volunteers to help direct traffic (offered by some sheriffs depts)…..or even a first aid class. In all those situations, you practice being assertive. “YOU….call 911, I’ll start CPR”. Or volunteer to become a docent for some museum or outdoor spot…speaking to groups authoritatively will boost your confidence too. And introduce you to a lot of people! Taking an acting class, singing class, improv class….all can boost your confidence too.
Mainly, find out what you are passionate about in life and go for it. I know women who haven’t had a date in a decade, but have full joyous lives, because they are engaged in passionate nonprofit work. There are some things only a man can give you, but not much that can’t be replaced with a sweet pet to greet you, a girlfriend to call, a sexual toy (to be blunt) and a good book or movie. LOL! REALLY!
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Monday, 14 September 2009 @ 5:56pm
Tilly says:
Now I feel guilty and ashamed that it was my inner state that attracted the psychopath and totally my own fault that i got into so much trouble. Damn.
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Monday, 14 September 2009 @ 6:25pm
cutandrun says:
IDK, I think there are many many factors involved, and this is one explanation of many that helps some with an answer they are looking for. I definitely agree about the pain part though, I think I have primarily healed from my S#2, but am still working on healing from pain created in childhood and buried the rest of my life. So buried, not even sure I really can “feel” it enough to cry, and the cause of that pain still lives next door, (parent), not only do I need to learn how to heal, but also to guard and protect.
I think my HUGE problem was never developing personal boundaries. The “stench from the rotting inside” is an interesting thought, because if you are talking about an actual smell or (I know I know, not really, right), more like an “aura” or an atmosphere, my whole experience with S#2 started online. Not sure how you “smell” on the computer, if so, this guy was very good at it! Rather, I think I desperately wanted what he was offering. Whether he was actually looking for ME online and found me (we have a history from our teen years – met briefly a couple times), or was just trolling the net (FB) for “whoever” turned up, I’ll never know. So did I attract that? I’m not sure.
BUT, my belief in a God who orders the universe causes me to believe that these things do happen for a reason, and ultimately the reason is for my good…..my own sin plays a part, but the upheaval this situation has caused in my emotional life – causing me to dig deep for the reasons this happened, to bring about healing from a painful childhood, and the upheaval in my marriage, that has caused my husband to do what I see as a complete 180 to be the man that I need and desperately wanted, the man who no longer takes me for granted or looks at me as a household appliance, feels just shy of a miracle….
And, though my experience with S#1 8 years ago did NOT bring about that healing, did NOT change my life in any real way (once I caught on to it and ended it), it still played a part in the whole. If I never had that experience, I wouldn’t have gotten the red flag warnings that I gave myself with S#2, and I would have been MUCH more deeply involved, perhaps physically, and it would have lasted SO much longer than the mere 15 weeks it took, I am sure he would have devastated me emotionally and mentally.
Though I perhaps could say that I did “attract” S#1, because of my lack of boundaries and my “giving” nature, my self worth was all wrapped up in what I could give, and give, and give….and he was right there to take and take and take. He actually called me a “provider”, like it was a compliment! Like that was God’s purpose for my life. Provider for the needy. Sounds virtuous, doesn’t it?
Both false relationships were QUITE different from each other, in theory, well, I guess the “supply” for each guy was quite different, the first was interested in stuff, attention, and money (and mind control), the second was interested in sex (and mind control), though the second had to work double hard on the mask he presented as I was always comparing him to the first…, but this is an example of why it is VITAL that we do the healing work from the inside out, because I do NOT want to either “attract” or “accept” anything a potential S#3 might show up with. Whichever explanation might fit….
Still, any thoughts on how you dig out the pain you might not even know is buried inside you, when you don’t feel it or know “how” to feel it, or maybe are numb to it………I didn’t even know I was carrying around all this pain until S#2 cracked open the vault…..then OOOOHHHH, I was suddenly ANGRY with an anger I never felt before, towards my parents, towards my religious community and former church, towards my husband, I was ready to flee the country! How do I know if I haven’t closed the door on that vault too soon?
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Monday, 14 September 2009 @ 6:28pm
Donna Andersen says:
Just About Healed
Excellent, practical advice. Thank you.
Donna
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Monday, 14 September 2009 @ 6:30pm
Stargazer says:
I think a lot of the worrying over how we attracted the sociopath is fueled by some of the unresolved feelings. I found for myself that when I was able to clear out the majority of the negativity, it was easy to just look and see that he was not quite right in his approach toward me, and that I had many opportunities to walk away but didn’t take them. The realization came without judgment about myself.
Like Justabouthealed says, if you are very clear about your boundaries, it would be very difficult for a sociopath to sneak past them. I was obsessed for nearly a year with what made him a sociopath, what it was about me that attracted him, whether I could trust men again, whether I could trust myself with men again, etc. In retrospect, I can honestly say, I don’t even think much about that any more. I don’t feel so mistrustful of men like I did 6 months ago. I know the majority of men are not sociopaths. I look forward to meeting them with little reservation. But I will say that if a red flag gets set off, I will pay attention immediately!
I talked to some guy on the dating site a few weeks ago who was from the same army base the sociopath was from and in the same transitional unit waiting for a “medical discharge”, just as my sociopath was (what are the chances?) He also did not have money or a car to drive to my town. I was very polite with him and chatted superficially. Then my lunch was burning and I had to go. I wished him good luck, knowing I would never talk to him again. NEXT!
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Monday, 14 September 2009 @ 7:09pm
OxDrover says:
Dear JAH, I agree with Donna, your information is PRACTICAL.
Guys, this does NOT mean that we are “at fault” for the P-attack, it simply means that in ADULT relationships there is something about us—lack of boundaries or a childhood that makes “abuse normal” or WHATEVER, that makes us VULNERABLE to an attack by a P who holds out this lovely VISION (false vision) that makes us think that they are going to COMPLETE US.
I did not “attract” my P son, I gave birth to the rat, I did not “make him” what he is except I passed on some genetics, and his behavior is NOT my fault or responsibility, it is HIS. But, after my husband died, I was lonely and VULNERABLE, felt old, fat, ugly and lonely, and guess what, some P picked up the “scent” of that and homed in like a lion on the prowl because I was EASY prey. After the “romancing” for the first 3-4 months, any one else would have kicked his sorry butt to the curb THEN, but it took me another 4 months to do so. I’m just glad I wasn’t already married to him at the time I finally kicked away.
I’m just now, a couple of years AFTER that experience learning to set boundaries, appropriate and healthy boundaries. Those boundaries will PROTECT ME, because like JAH I have a “deal breaker” list for ANYone in my life, man, or woman and whatever the relationship. DISHONESTY is a deal breaker.
CutandRun, I can relate to your childhood issues, as I had them too, and didn’t even realize I had them until I started the healing process that uncovered them, uncovered the fact I had problems with boundaries my entire life. Now, I am learning. Better late than never.
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Monday, 14 September 2009 @ 7:19pm
skylar says:
Yep, me too, I didn’t know about P parents until the mask fell from my exP. This revealed my P brother in law and P sister, then it revealed the P -brother. My P parents came next, they are P-lite.
LOL!
I’m sensing another P BIL but he lives far away. My uncle is a vicious P as well. He tortured his wife with affairs under her nose and she died of cancer, a broken hearted woman.
My friend who moved to Canada, turned out to be a P, but that’s ok because we haven’t spoken in years.
I now realize that my deceased best friend from high school had been stalked by a P until she committed suicide.
I remember that her mother was weird, treated her like a slave and now I know: she’s a P.
My friend from grade school toldme that her father molested her, but I didn’t believe her. But I did know that he removed her bedroom door and wouldn’t let her close the bathroom door. I recently learned that P’s have a thing they do called “bathroom barging” they will not allow you privacy, not even in the bathroom. So now I know that her father was a P and that he DID molest her.
My other highschool friend was also molested by her P- step father but nobody believed her. Now she is a meth addict and prostitute. Had 4 children taken away by the state.
All of these things went on in my life and I watched all the classic P behavior in so many people, but had no clue that it was connected. Now I look back and know.
THEY ARE EVERYWHERE!
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Monday, 14 September 2009 @ 7:43pm
Hecates path says:
Wow this is a very interesting thread of comments. JAH, your advice was wonderful and I am sure it will help far more people than you’ll ever know.
Oxy said:
Guys, this does NOT mean that we are “at fault” for the P-attack, it simply means that in ADULT relationships there is something about us—lack of boundaries or a childhood that makes “abuse normal” or WHATEVER, that makes us VULNERABLE to an attack by a P who holds out this lovely VISION (false vision) that makes us think that they are going to COMPLETE US
Oxy, thank you for clarifying that bit about not being “at fault.” I know as well as I know my own name that my ex S was on a mission when he sought me out and found out my heart’s deepest desires and dangled them in front of me. I have never been pursued so intensely by anyone and I fell for it hard. He, like a typical S knows exactly how to “suss out” what he needs to know/do in order to get what he thinks wants/what will make him happy… until it doesn’t of course, but I digress…
That said, though I take full responsibility for the aspects of my personality, shaped by my brain chemistry, my father’s abandonment before I was two, and my borderline mother’s way of raising me that made me accepting of the S’s behaviors and made me think I could pin all my hopes/dreams on one person … and I learned the hard way that if it seems too good to be true that it likely is.
And, like Oxy, I had no idea of what issues I was harboring until the sociopath entered my life and turned it updside down. That is the reason,however, that I can’t say I wish we’d never crossed paths, though — I like the more healthy person I am NOW and I would not have done all that work and healed other wounds that were there long before the S or learned just how unhealthy my mother is, etc, had i not had the encounter with him. He was the catalyst for unraveling my life so that I could stitch it back together in a better way. I am truly better off because of him… or rather what I learned about and changed about myself as a result of his betrayal.
As for LOA, I personally can not wrap my head around the idea that we cause bad things to happen to us, such as getting cancer, being the victim of crime, having a sociopath come in to our lives, by the “vibe” we give to the universe. I will concede that when we are emotionally and physically exhausted, worn out, and, unhealthy we are more likely to experience illness and accidents, etc… the mind and the immune system are linked in ways that science as only begun to understand.
I think we “attract” all kinds of people but we are more *accepting* of some people based on our vulnerabilities, needs, wants, experiences, and most importantly neglecting to be in the moment and see things as they *really are*, ourselves included, and not the way we want people or things to be or how we think they “could, would, should be.” I know that being consciously in the moment is the most significant change I have made in my life…
As for attracting a partner after the sociopath, this is a sensitive subject for me – a conversation i’ve been having with my therapist for several months now. She thinks I *may* be avoiding dating and not sending out a positive vibe for attracting a partner – because by her assessment I am a statistical outlier in the dating department – as in against the good odds I have in my favor, it’s just not happening for me. short version of course.
I, on the other hand feel like I do not have opportunities to meet people given my workplace environment and role as a single mom. That’s why I loved Justabouthealed’s list and suggestions – and believe me I’d love to join a club, volunteer, etc. I just don’t have time at the expense of my kids right now. I have also found that most of the parents I encounter at the age my kids are now are married… I was just ahead of the pack, LOL, in getting divorced earlier rather than satying married (ie. in the dysfunction) for the kids’ “sake”. Trust me I see marriages unraveling all around me… once you get divorced other people’s marriages become more transparent, I guess….
Anyway, I also maintain that I am not avoiding anything and that if somebody caught my interest I woul send out the right vibe gol darnit!
When I allow myself to feel confident and attractive, it tends to feel like a sham since there isn’t any relationship outlet for that. I can dress up feel & great about myself – but that doesn’t mean I have an evening planned for dinner and a movie on saturday night with someone I love…
Instead the very few people I have met I excise at the first feeling of “you’re not working for me” cuz I have adopted Oxy’s belief of cut and run as needed. I also avoid people who act like they’re in a relationship with me too quickly because I think that if they’ve just met me they can’t know ME well enough to act like a couple that fast! Those are the people I think are just playing a role… I’d love to hear other opinions on this, folks… ???
I struggle with something else, too… so again I’d like to hear opinions…
I am perfectly ok with my life – I have healthy fantastic kids, an ok relationship with my ex now that he’s sober, a great job that I enjoy and allows me to be financially stable, I have an education of which I am proud, my physical appearance is good – not heather locklear of course and I still have those 5lbs that are left from the stress of the S this spring LOL, but I have my assets inthe looks department that make up for what I don’t have, I have some very good friends who I love and trust dearly, I am becoming the diva of boundary setting with my dysfunctional family, I am comfortable with myself an dmy beliefs, and enjoy my alone time as well as more social opportunities, though I’d like a social calendar with more on it… I am a social butterfly at heart… but overall things are going well in my world.
So what’s the problem? well, here goes – I miss being part of a couple and I want companionship, a sex life, a partner to come home to at the end of the day, someone to share the joys in my life. I admit that I am lonely/longing for all those things. That said though, I have a hard time saying/believing that being lonely equates to being emotionally unhealthy… or believing that in wanting a relationship I must still be in a place where I am not ready for one,yada yada. Why is it that wanting a partnership seems to be viewed synonymously with needing someone to complete my life… but at the same time it does feel like I do need a partner to complete my already good life… like I need/want a partner to be the cherry on the ice cream sundae that is my life… Is there a difference in being lonely and feeling lonely perhaps?
I need some help with this, my friends, because the contradictions are not working for me…. thoughts??
Hecate’s Path
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Monday, 14 September 2009 @ 9:16pm
henry says:
HP – You are beautiful butterfly just emerging from your cocoon. It takes 17 years for some cocoons to open up and let the butterfly spreads it’s wing and fly. The bad man in your life was a catylist for change, you are still forming the brilliant wonderful better, wiser person. You must learn patience..your desires for companionship are normal. You must be patient though…
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Monday, 14 September 2009 @ 10:32pm
skylar says:
Hecates, Don’t forget that when you share your life with someone, you are also going to make room for their life to share with you. So if your life is really full and you want someone who has a full life too, it’s gonna get crowded.
You know, we never get what we think we want, we always get the surprise gift instead.
At least that has been my experience.
I think, that when I’m ready, I will just date lots of people like I did before I met my ex. that will get me warmed up for the right person.
Another thing about people in general is that they always want what others have. This is definitely true about P’s but I think it applies to all of us to some extent. If you get out there and date, you will look more appealing to other guys.
I know, it’s a P trick, but it seems to work and as long as you don’t lose your empathy for human beings, it seems ok to try to get your foot in the door that way.
Of course we still have to watch out for P’s in all of our endeavors! THEY’RE EVERYWHERE!
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Tuesday, 15 September 2009 @ 12:25am
skylar says:
I have a question that I hope the answers from everyone will help us to identify P’s.
What do they like to watch on TV and what kind of music do they listen to?
My xP seemed very proud to tell me he only watched science and nature shows, like on the discovery channel and PBS. Never wanted to watch comedies or sitcoms, although he seemed to like Seinfeld and SouthPark once I got him started on it.
As for music, he was a musician (but only for the attention) but he always preferred music that showed his intellectual appreciation of the lead guitarist’s skills. (he played lead guitar)
I know a guy that is sort of interested in me but he told me he only watches science and nature programs and will only listen to blues. Now I think it’s a red flag. what does everyone else think?
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Tuesday, 15 September 2009 @ 12:45am
henry says:
Skylar – He watched sports and “Lost” both bored me too tears — I preferred PBS and Nature and science shows – he liked stevie nicks and abba – I like country and jazz – ho hum- I think your red flag detector needs some adjustment
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Tuesday, 15 September 2009 @ 1:00am
skylar says:
I have something I want to share and would also like your thoughts and opinions – especially if you still happen to be with your P.
There are some homeopathic stress relief tablets that they sell at the check out stands in the natural food stores (PCC in Seattle). I bought some, because I have found some homeopathic formulas very effective. I know that I cannot get my P to take anything I give him for stress relief, but I also know that
1. he loves sugar
2. if I’m eating it he wants to take it away.
so, I put it in my car and we were driving down the road and he was in his usual fowl mood.
I opened the box of “mints” and ate one, then another and another. He noticed and started grabbing them. ate about 5 or 6. Suddenly, he says, “what are those?” I said, “why?”
He says, “they made me feel different”
I said, “they are homeopathic stress pills, that means they’re just sugar with a placebo effect”.
He asks, “what do they do?”
I said, “they reduce feelings of stress, why are they working?”
He said, “yes, I don’t like it. I didn’t want my stress reduced.”
LOL!!
My xp is an idiot. no matter how much of a genious he thought he was. They all are idiots.
I never had to slip anything into his food or drink because I could ENVY him into taking it right out of my hands and shoving it down his throat! This is not the first time I had done this. It’s like taking candy from a baby.
I wonder what would happen if they take ecstasy? It’s supposed to make you feel love and connection to all human beings!! Hmm…..
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Tuesday, 15 September 2009 @ 1:04am
skylar says:
Henry, you are right because my xp hates sports and lost. LOL.
Ok, I’m still wanting to hear some more input from you all.
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Tuesday, 15 September 2009 @ 1:06am
henry says:
skylar you need to chill – your comparing apples to oranges – one time a blogger here said ” I knew he was a Physcopath when he put a sock on a puppys head” well I have done that when playing with my doxy’s they seemed to love it but some consider that physco – I just stick with the basic traits of physcopath – they come in all flavors, sizes and all have likes and dislikes -
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Tuesday, 15 September 2009 @ 1:14am
henry says:
Skylar – Your analyzing everything too much. One thing I know for sure is I will never understand how they think or why. If they exploit you they are bad. At first my X loved everything about me, my home, my hobbies, my music, that is how they win us, by acting like parrot’s, you say the sky is green and they agree..But eventually they hate everything about us, everything we do or stand for, and try to tear us down so they can be in control. In reality my X and I had nothing in common, he just lied to get a roof over his head. I would hate to live like that. I understasnd why your asking questions though, I did the same thing.
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Tuesday, 15 September 2009 @ 1:38am
skylar says:
reallly? this is a grieving stage I’m going thru, Henry?
I just thought I was doing this because it’s how I deal with everything. I immerse myself, try to understand and create all the necessary connection in my brain. Then I can let it go on autopilot and not have to be so vigilent.
But it’s only been since May, so maybe you’re right and it’s only a stage of grieving.
I like putting socks on my cats heads, sometimes on their butts instead. LOL.
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Tuesday, 15 September 2009 @ 1:46am
henry says:
Have you seen those stop smoking commercials on TV where they say if you can learn how to drive without a ciggerate you can do anything? Or if you can learn how to drink coffee without a cig you can do anything? I had to learn how to live without a sociopath – it takes some doing…addictions are powerful
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Tuesday, 15 September 2009 @ 2:00am
Tilly says:
“circumstances and situations come into our lives as a result of our internal states”, crikey I must have one helluva ugly internal state. My insides must have been born ugly the day i came out of the womb, “born bad”, coz my psychopath parents were just waitin to torture me, never wanted me to begin with and like the psychopath Sondra Ray told me when I did my tenth expensive weekend with her “it all my fault”.
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Tuesday, 15 September 2009 @ 4:12am
witsend says:
henry,
So what did you think about Kevins perfomance yesterday?
He chose a very hard song to sing…..I love that song, I suppose most women would.
I think the judges love him and you can’t help but admire his humbleness.
Who will America vote for? It likely depends on who WILL take the time to vote the most…Twenty somethings? Thirty somethings? Or us 50 somethings?
I can’t help but like Grandma…she is a hoot!
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Tuesday, 15 September 2009 @ 7:14am
Easy says:
Skylar
We Obcess over the P then we do the same in their discovery and Our rediscovery of our selves! It’s OK
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Tuesday, 15 September 2009 @ 7:50am
Donna Andersen says:
Hecates Path,
It is certainly fine to want a relationship. The problems begin when we have desperation attached to our wanting.
In my case, I was pining away for a relationship for 20 years. I continued to lament my singleness, focus on the fact that I was alone, and ask myself, “What is wrong with me?”
What I was focused on was “no relationship.” So, according to the law of attraction, I got more “no relationship.”
The idea is to want a relationship with an expectation of good in your heart. If you are fine and happy while you’re alone, but a relationship would make you even more happy, this is a good attitude. Then, it’s just a matter of time – someone wonderful will show up.
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Tuesday, 15 September 2009 @ 8:24am
OxDrover says:
Hey, guys, last night was it!!!! Granny is my HERO!!!! The only thing she needs is a big hat with feathers, an iron skillet and a big jack ass to ride and she would be PERFECT!!!! LOL
Tilly, your P parents didn’t make you BAD they made you VULNERABLE to other Ps, because they did not do their duty as parents and give you love, they left you HUNGRY for love, and willing to accept “fake” love (for a while) until you found out it was just like their “love” FAKE along with a big serving of abuse.
I agree with the people who say we “attract” some things by having a negative attitude, but I don’t agree with everything they say–for example, I don’t think that we can just “think positive” and in 30 days we will be rich and beautiful (I know that is a simplistic example of a more complex belief system, but you get the idea I am trying to convey with a bit of exaggeration, I think)
But, at the same time, I think if we are depressed and down cast, grieving and hostile, we are not likely to attract someone who’s a healthy partner. They just wont’ find us interesting. Who WILL find us “interesting” is a psychopath, because they know in our pain and stress we are VULNERABLE to their lies.
Like on that old TV show from “100 years ago” MISSION IMPOSSIBLE, “here’s your job if you choose to accept it” TO HEAL OURSELVES. To get the psychopath out of our lives and heal ourselves to where we are HEALTHY—at that jpoint, we will either be satisfied and at peace alone, OR we very well may attract a healthy partner. Either case is OK with us, because we do not NEED someone else in our lives to make who WHOLE. We are WHOLE all by ourselves.
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Tuesday, 15 September 2009 @ 8:25am
changedforever says:
Donna
I liked your article, but for me I don’t know if I ever will or want to attract another relationship in my life. The relationship with this sociopath left so many deep wounds not only physical (I was diagnosed this year with cancer in my stomach that resulted from a chronic ulcer caused by stress of many years), but also emotionaly I’m so sick and I’m only 47. I think I need at least a couple of long years until I can trust another man, if I will trust them again.
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Tuesday, 15 September 2009 @ 10:44am
cutandrun says:
Hi. I need some help. I asked a question a few posts back, and I think I have just answered it myself, but any feedback would be welcome.
I am sitting at work and crying. I should explain that for the most part, I work alone. I manage the office of a commercial electrical contractor, a small family business, the office is in the owner’s home (though it is a real office). The guys are all out in the field and rarely come here, my boss is in his mid-60’s and also re-building a vacation home an hour away, and he would rather not be bothered with anything but the bare details. The business is meant to be handed down to his nephew, current foreman and VP (who I also suspect is a N). That leaves me here steering the ship, me and the computer and phone.
We are having cash flow problems because Captain Fantastic (said nephew) only does his paper work at his convenience, which is sporadic at best. My boss has left for the week on vacation. He had just come into the office to tell me how to come up with the money for this weeks payroll, and told me to withold his check. He asked me how much that was, and when I told him, he questioned me on a raise I supposedly was to give him at the beginning of the year. He was quite upset when I nervously flipped through all my payroll books back to January and into 08 to find that I had no notes regarding that and made no changes. He did not blame me or say anything about it, just left, poof.
So I am left shaking in my boots, and I know it’s not rational, but just realized that due to the abuse I experienced as a child, I am left feeling guilty, and afraid of any abuse that might be coming, loss of my job, and/or humiliation. I have been here over 4 years and that has never happened. In fact, my boss is quite direct, but soft underneath. One electrician had a drinking problem, and lost the company van for 3 days, and didn’t get fired.
But I am afraid of the reaction that I WOULD HAVE gotten from my dad. It is so ingrained in me – and it’s only been my experience this year with S#2 that has picked off this giant scab and helped me to see it.
I would like very much to know how to stop FEELING like a victim….Since I am alone here I felt free to have a good crying spell – but do I have to have triggers like this to get it out, am I dealing with residual pain or just the pain from this incident?
I am also realizing more and more that my dad might actually be a S or N. Also this week, my 18 yr. old son lost a friend in a car accident. He had just started college several states away, and came home for the funeral. My dad did not think he should have disrupted his studies to do this, and made several comments that showed he really didn’t understand anything about this loss. Which also hit me hard even though I didn’t know the friend or the family that well, I almost think I felt TOO MUCH empathy for the family, or maybe it was survivor guilt..
Sometimes I think I should get another job, but there are too many things about this one that are too good, I accept the fact that I am alone most of the time, and also bored. But the pay is great, much more than I’d get someplace else, it is only 10 min. from my home, and so far these have been the nicest people I’ve ever worked for in my life. Except for Captain Fantastic at times, but he keeps his distance.
I know my boss probably feels pretty stupid right now too, I mean, does he NEVER check his pay stub? How could he NOT know he hadn’t gotten a major raise he supposedly asked for?
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Tuesday, 15 September 2009 @ 11:17am
henry says:
witsend – I was dissapointed in the song Kevin picked to sing last nite.. I still like him and he get’s my vote, my second choice would be Barbara the opera singer…Oxy grandma Lee is a hoot…she reminds me of you.
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Tuesday, 15 September 2009 @ 11:19am
skylar says:
Henry,
I’m not sure if you know the details of my situation. I don’t have the luxury of just going NC. For now, I get a respite because he has a trojan horse BIL which he thinks I am unaware of. This makes him feel like he will still win. My P is not done with me and he never will be.
You know how vengeful they are when you leave them, well I left mine 3 times before 1991 each time upped the ante. That is when he began to plot how I would never leave him again. Convinced me to buy a house in the woods on an island, convinced the cops on his side, my BIL- the homeland security cop is a trojan horse. He has more plans up his sleeve, of that you can be sure.
Everything he does will be covert: poison, slander, sabotage.
So my “mission” should I choose to accept it, is multi-layered.
I have to re-assess my life, understand how I came to this point and rebuild myself, At the same time I have to find a source of income that he can’t sabotage and I have to be ready when the assault begins again.
Fixing my emotions was the first step because they sabatoge everything else. Since my 2 day cry I have not even missed him or any of our history – I’m feeling better. Really my cry was for him. I’m very sad that he is what he is. I’m really sad that a person of his potential could not have used it in the service of God. But I’m trying to accept that God has a plan and a reason. I don’t think that God has abandoned him, so that faith makes me feel better.
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Tuesday, 15 September 2009 @ 12:10pm
witsend says:
Henry,
I don’t think the song is really his “style”. The song is a passionate song and he sings very passionately….But country is what he does best!
I think the contenders are really trying to push themselves and think outside of the box….The judges seem to give them that advice sometimes as well. But they can sometimes loose their “magic” trying to be something they are not.
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Tuesday, 15 September 2009 @ 12:38pm
flyspeck says:
OxDrover, you wrote..
“But, at the same time, I think if we are depressed and down cast, grieving and hostile, we are not likely to attract someone who’s a healthy partner. They just wont’ find us interesting. Who WILL find us “interesting” is a psychopath, because they know in our pain and stress we are VULNERABLE to their lies.”
I have to question that statement. True, when we are in the beaten down state we will not attract a healthy partner and we are more vulnerable to the “Bad People”.
BUT, and I emphasize BUT, when we have picked ourselves up, dusted ourselves off and are back to our own beautiful selves we seem to be an EVEN MORE attractive trophy for these “Bad People”.
Sure, when we are in a beaten down state, we are easy prey for a quick notch on their belt. But the real PRIZE is a complete human that they can crush.
Laying blame on the victim is wrong. Just because we are vulnerable does not mean we deserve nor ask to be misused.
As I see it, the only blame we deserve is for giving people the benefit of the doubt when we should look more closely when they do something that sets off our inner alarms.
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Tuesday, 15 September 2009 @ 1:58pm
peggywhoever says:
cutandrun:
It sounds like you have a good job for the most part; good pay and conveniently located.
It sounds like the nephew is the problem. Of course he knows what his pay is; I believe he was just trying to manipulate you while the owner is gone.
You may be suffering from PTSD as a result of the relationship with your father, you may be correct in your assessment that he is a S or a N.
Good luck to you!
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Tuesday, 15 September 2009 @ 2:22pm
OxDrover says:
Dear Flyspeck,
If you got the impression I was “blaming the victim” then you have the wrong idea about my post, and I am sorry I did not explain it better. I DO NOT BLAME THE VICTIM for being vulnerable. It is only that they (psychopaths) find us in an injured state “easy prey”—I also agree with you, they also like to “trophy hunt” as well and to take a healthy victim, who is successful and doing well, and con them, and take them down as well, just like a “big game hunter” wants the “biggest rack or set of horns” on the antelope or deer they hunt.
QUOTE: “As I see it, the only blame we deserve is for giving people the benefit of the doubt when we should look more closely when they do something that sets off our inner alarms. ”
I agree with you entirely here, but it is WHEN we are injured or down that we are MORE LIKELY to NOT “look closely” at the person who is trying to ‘charm” us into being a victim.
.
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Tuesday, 15 September 2009 @ 4:54pm
cutandrun says:
PeggyW – thanks for your comment…….gosh maybe now I should look into PTSD, hadn’t thought of that…
But should clarify – the nephew wasn’t the problem in this case, it was the owner himself who had no idea what his wages were and should have been. Nephew (Captain Fantastic) is not so much of a direct problem, unless he tries to accuse me of something I did or didn’t do, and when I can produce proof to defend myself, he will back down and occasionally apologize – so not completely sure to what degree a N he may be. The biggest problem with him is that to try and get him to adhere to some sort of schedule or procedure is like trying to nail jello to a tree…. And I only suspect N because of his personal life (he is VERY good looking and could stand in for Tom Cruise), he insists he will never marry and has a steady stream of live – in girlfriends, and is usually stringing one along on the side (and he only dates super model types), and it’s funny how they usually have such a hard time with jealousy…..it doesn’t affect me in the least, however, it’s more like watching a soap opera. But when the business gets handed over to him, I’m really doubting that I could continue to work under HIS authority – I should probably leave before I need to jump off the Titanic….when that happens. He is very moody and can sometimes be very charming and chatty, and at other times, it’s down to name, rank, and serial number, and get off the phone!
Thanks for letting me vent! Been a hard day…
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Tuesday, 15 September 2009 @ 5:54pm
henry says:
witsend – Wether Kevin win’s or not I think his chicken catchin days are over, he should of sang a Merle Haggard song. And I bet Grandma Lee has a fowl mouth, she has to keep it clean for TV, but turn her loose at Vegas and I bet every other word would four letters..
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Tuesday, 15 September 2009 @ 6:43pm
Stargazer says:
Cutandrun,
I’m not sure what kind of relationship you have with the owner of the business, but if you are running his business for him, I would think he should be approachable to you when you need to communicate to him. Is there any chance you could try and talk to him about your conversation and ask if he feels you did anything wrong? It’s hard to say if you were being triggered into PTSD or if his poor communication left you feeling manipulated. If you feel it is PTSD, there are some very effective therapies for this. But if there is a pattern of his undercommunicating or you continually feeling guilty, he may have some issues he is taking out on you.
I support the Clinical Director at my office job. She also is extremely busy and doesn’t want to deal with a lot of problems or extraneous information. But if ever I feel bad about something she said, I can always go to her and talk to her.
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Tuesday, 15 September 2009 @ 6:47pm
cutandrun says:
Wow, Stargazer, right on……lack of communication leaves me feeling manipulated….interesting! Had never thought of that. I always tended to relate feeling manipulated to “something” that WAS BEING “communicated”, not a lack OF it. Cool. In thinking things over yet again, I remembered I was feeling pain/anxiety before this situation even started…..I now think that being left alone so much like that does make me feel I’m being taken advantage of. I had tried to make myself look at it like it’s great that they “trust” me like that, that they have confidence in my abilities, that I can handle whatever comes up. But, right, should it ALL be MY responsibility? I think now perhaps I will have something I can actually verbalize, where my boundaries have been so VAGUE that I didn’t even know what was bothering me or if it SHOULD bother me.
I think his only issue is that he is very close to traditional retirement age, 62, and as the owner of what he considers to be a very successful business, he resents that he cannot simply stop working or worrying about it because he simply cannot trust his nephew, the heir to the throne. He is slippery as an eel and the boss’s own boundaries with this are so soft confronting him never seems to work. So it’s the politics of avoidance.
I KNOW he does not blame me, and is just more upset with the whole situation. Even if he felt he should have had that raise since the beginning of the year, the money simply ISN’T THERE, so the image of a “successful business” is more or a mirage. It’s pure crisis management.
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Tuesday, 15 September 2009 @ 7:46pm
justabouthealed says:
Stargazer…have you experienced effective therapy for PTSD? Have others? I really don’t want to invest time and money and emotional energy in something I’m not sure will work. The nearest therapist is two hours away, and then it is two hours drive back. That would be 5 hours for each session, plus what the therapist charges, plus the gas and driving on remote roads alone…which can REALLY trigger my PTSD if I have a breakdown, as I was attacked once in that situation, and had my stuff stolen on another breakdown.
My therapist said the eye movement thing would help, but I startle so easy, I’m on high alert almost all the time, I just don’t see much hope for treatment!
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Tuesday, 15 September 2009 @ 9:57pm
PInow says:
EMDR is a great treatment for PTSD. I tried it but had to hold back, because I was starting to remember childhood trauma and that would have not helped me stay in control. Justabout, you’d benefit from EMDR, no doubt, but if it involves bad stimuli like driving alone, you may want to ask someone to ride with you, at least in the beginning. Hypnosis is also good. I had that several times and was able to remember my P experiences and also set them free. (not entirely, unfortunately)
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Tuesday, 15 September 2009 @ 10:37pm
Stargazer says:
JAH, I’ve heard the rapid eye movement is very effective, but I haven’t the funding to try it myself, in addition to which I feel less of the need for it. I did have some trauma work several years ago by a lady who also did cranial sacral work, and I got a lot out of it. It was based on a book–don’t quote me on this, but I think the book was called “Eye of the Tiger” or something like that. It’s a very specific way of having a basis of positive, happy feelings before delving into traumatic memories and a way of handling them. It worked very well for me. If you can find the book, it might be useful to read. I’ve done a lot of trauma work in my 20’s accidentally when I went to some long meditation retreats. If you meditate long enough and get quiet and peaceful enough, all the stuff tends to come up. But it’s much easier to deal with in that context.
Cutandrun,
It does sound like you are experiencing some PTSD. But that’s not terrible. If you can identify what issue he is triggering as an authority figure in your life, you can work on it. Maybe then you can go talk to him to clear the air, and find out where you stand. In my 20’s I had so much PTSD that I couldn’t work for a few years. When I started working again (at menial jobs) I came home in tears every night, processing feelings that got triggered by co-workers. If you can process your feelings, you will be stronger and know more clearly where your boundaries are.
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Tuesday, 15 September 2009 @ 10:47pm
peggywhoever says:
PInow:
What is EMDR?
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Tuesday, 15 September 2009 @ 10:53pm
Stargazer says:
That’s what I meant to say–EMDR–and not rapid eye movement. (I’m thinking of REM my favorite band. lol).
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Tuesday, 15 September 2009 @ 11:01pm
PInow says:
Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR)1 is a comprehensive, integrative psychotherapy approach. It contains elements of many effective psychotherapies in structured protocols that are designed to maximize treatment effects. These include psychodynamic, cognitive behavioral, interpersonal, experiential, and body-centered therapies.
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Tuesday, 15 September 2009 @ 11:07pm
PInow says:
http://www.emdr.com/briefdes.htm
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Tuesday, 15 September 2009 @ 11:08pm
Tilly says:
Oxy:
Have a good look at the vomit producing email I JUST received from my ex huspand psychopath murderer. The one that knows that soon he will be charges with murder. Even if it is a very old murder, he did lots more. Check it out. He is the most callous cold blooded reptile man I have ever met in my entire life. And believe me, I have met some. ( I changed the names only)
Hi Tilly– thanks for returning Susan’s passport – that took courage and that’s something you’ve always had, all the way back to those early days when you sacrificed so much to ensure she survived – and she has turned out to be most decent, beautiful person on the planet – I know you were upset when she didn’t give you money but that was because I told her not to – work wasn’t paying her and I told her not to send you any money – they still owe her months of wages – if I had know the trouble it was going to cause I would have given you the money myself – I want you to know that in all that’s gone on Susan has refused to say one bad word about you – that’s Susan – she loves you – that’s why she went up there, to ‘find’ YOU – I wanted her to stay here but she wanted her mother – she truly believed that deep down you didn’t mean what you were saying and when you realised she needed you you would come to her – Susan lives for Bill and Ben, me and YOU – you’ve always been the most important person in her life – why do you think she left her job for 6 weeks to help you when you were in the institution? – you’re her mother and mother’s protect their daughters (and you more than anyone should know what it’s like when they don’t) – go to her – tell her you’re sorry – tell her you love her – she will understand, she will – tell her now before it’s too late and she leaves forever – tell her you don’t want her to go just yet- tell her that she important in your life – because the love she’ll return you will make your life so much more rewarding – take care -Psychopathic Murderer
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Wednesday, 16 September 2009 @ 12:25am
Tilly says:
I have no idea what he is talking about in regards to the passport, but it will be some kind of ploy you can guarrantee it.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 16 September 2009 @ 12:26am
Tilly says:
I remain no contact with both of them
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Wednesday, 16 September 2009 @ 12:28am
Tilly says:
I would love you to interpret into P speak for me Oxy, to diffuse it. Please.
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Wednesday, 16 September 2009 @ 12:29am
blueskies says:
I’ll have a go at diffusing it Tilly if you dont mind me jumping in….
to me it reads:
“blah,blah,blah,blah, blah,(throw in a compliment about your obvious to anyone with a brain cell strength to make you doubt how shit I am),blah,blah,blah,blah. Blah, blah,blah,(it’s all your own fault, if you had been NICER then you would have got the money from me that you needed… I took control of that so that I can reserve the right to judge how nice you have to be for said money though… now jump and roll over!) Blah,blah,blah,blah,blah. Blah, blah, blah, (little bit of emotional blackmail for extra flavour) blah, blah, blah. Blah, blah, blah, (now if you DO try to reconcile with your daughter it will be down to MY WONDEROUS benificence and if you dont it is becuase you are ungrateful/mean/crazy take your pick…damned if you do and damed if you dont!Tee-hee!! rubs hands together with glee!) blah, blah, blah, blah. (rounding off with a nice disregard of you knowing exactly what I AM)”
Bin it Tilly.
You do things on your own terms now. If the time comes for you to reconcile with your daughter it will be when you are ready and recovered and it will happen at the right time for you both and have nothing to do with him.
xxxxxxxxxx
MHO of course. I only have level 2 diploma in psycho speak, not a doctorate like oxy, but that’s my take…;)
xxxxxxxxxxx
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Wednesday, 16 September 2009 @ 6:10am
blueskies says:
He has brought out the only ‘pawn’ he thinks he has left to play against you. Take him out of the game the weasle.
He is a nothing, his words are not from concern for your daughter and all the feelings you have for eachother (he doesnt feel like that) he is using her as a tool to a.) make himself sound good and b.) make you feel bad.
xxxxxxx
POT PLANT TILLY!
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Wednesday, 16 September 2009 @ 6:19am
blueskies says:
(Block him from your e-mail.)
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Wednesday, 16 September 2009 @ 6:20am
skylar says:
Tilly,
It looks to me like he has set up a series of hoops he wants you to jump through just to see you jump. He and Susan have been talking about which hoops to set up and he is trying to get you to jump through HER hoops, so that he can impress her with his power over you.
My xP did a very similar thing with my P-neighbor.
She wanted me to call her so she could abuse me, but I went NC with her, but was still talking to him. So he would say, “Call that bitch because she keeps bothering me and asking where you are”
when I said “no, I’m not calling her, just tell her I’m on vacation, can’t you do that?”
He escalated it by having her call me in as a missing person. TWICE in one day. And the second time, the excuse was because he had told her that I was dead and my body was in plastic bags. So the cops supposedly show up to find me and they can’t so they keep calling me. I still don’t respond so the cops harrass my parents. WHAT KIND OF F***ING COPS CAN’T SEE WHAT IS HAPPENING AND PLAY ALONG?? WHY WASN’T HE ARRESTED FOR HARRASSING THE NEIGHBOR AND CREATING A DISTURBANCE?
ahem, excuse my rant. it still bothers me because COPS should be held to higher standards and instead they are the worst P’s on the planet.
Anyway, It’s just a “hoop jumping” thing. they want to see that they have power over your behavior. push that button, watch an emotion come out.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 16 September 2009 @ 10:58am
ErinBrockovich says:
Tilly,
My take:
……I am in control of Susan and she does exactly what I want, when I want…..I hate you for being so hard headed, so I will try to control you through our daughter…..HA….see it’s working, thus far….I told her to find you, she did, I told her to not give you money…..she didn’t……she’s my puppet.
I will be more than willing to give you money, but Im’ gonna make you beg…you have no one elese ot go to for money, so my purse may be open….or not……ask and we shall see….but susan just can’t do it.
If you keep in touch with me, I can mend your relationshop with susan…..I hold the key……I jsut need control over you, as I have over her. Oh, I just love that girl……she has such faith in me!
I know susan better than anyone, and If you give her the chance….she will control you just like I can. So, go ahead Tilly, step into our arena, I’m ready to take you on…..again!
LOVE YA…..P
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Wednesday, 16 September 2009 @ 2:00pm
justabouthealed says:
Just jumping in to say thanks to everyone who responded to my question. I appreciate the help!
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Wednesday, 16 September 2009 @ 2:05pm
cutandrun says:
Does anyone have any suggestions of books that are good for getting over childhood abuse?
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Wednesday, 16 September 2009 @ 2:22pm
OxDrover says:
There are several good books qabout “toxic” and “controllilng parents” there are some “book reviews” here on some, and yo ucan see reviews on Amazon dot com,
Sometimes when we have been in relationships with ps, because our childhood left us vulnerable to abuse as “normal” or “familiar” and we start to heal from the abuse by the P we realize that we have always lived in a situation that made abuse seem “normal” or what we should expect from others.
Growing up in a home where we were not valued, even it it wasn’t a home in which we suffered sexual or physical abuse, many times it is simply the lack of a loving warmth that all children deserve, leaves us vulnerable to anyone who does claim (at least at first) to love us, though they dont’ treat us as if they do. Working backwards into these early childhood deprivations of love and nurturing can allow us to “reparent” ourselves to so me extent, and to let us NURTURE OURSELVES rather than depending on outside “love”—at that point we are not so vulnerable to having others con us by FAKE LOVE. Good luck, there are many good books on this subject!
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Wednesday, 16 September 2009 @ 2:42pm
cutandrun says:
Oxy – you nailed it…..no sexual, some physical, mostly emotional, and the terror of the temper tantrums, rage, screaming, blame, blame blame….more blame, did I mention blame….
That is why it is so much “easier” for me to take blame on myself, than to stand up for myself, or feel good about myself, or confident that it really wasn’t me or something I did or didn’t do…
PTSD may be a factor, because if I think I did something wrong (as in story posts back), I become fearful, the authority figure is going to blow up at me. Humiliate me, fire me.
So when someone (S#2) tells me I’m perfect and absolutely wonderful, wow what a feeling. Except that we go from the tunnel of love to the haunted house.
I am presently reading a book on emotional abuse, but it doesn’t seem to be helping too much, as they ask questions like, name 5 things that describe you, and I simply can’t do it. Name 5 personal goals – nope, don’t have any. No clue. Survival, that’s all I can say.
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Wednesday, 16 September 2009 @ 4:03pm
OxDrover says:
Dear Cut and run,
“Abuse” is defined differently by different people, and sometimes it may be a subtle as a parent “withholding” love and approval to a child. Also what would be “painful abuse” to one child might not be perceived so by another child with a different temperment.
since each of us seems to think our upbriinging is “normal” we (at least I did) thought that everyone’s family was like mine. I learned to do things or not do things by the FOG (fear, obligation and guilt) rather than for any other reasons and grew up seeming to think it was my responsibility to make “mommie dearest’ not rage or condemn—and I never seemed to “get it right” no matter what I did….my self esteem depended on pleasing her and her “angry god”—I didn’t even realize what my life was based on.
I can also relate to the not being able to “name five things” —but that part is changing now, I am able to name plenty of things about me that I LIKE about me. I bet you could name some things too.
1. I am a caring person.
2. I am a smart woman.
3. I am a loving parent.
4. I am a good friend.
5. I am a competent person.
Goals:
1. I want to be a more confident person.
2. I want to re-develop my artistic talents
3. I want to participate more in my community
4. I want to increase my spirituality
5. I want to deepen my intimate relationships with my friends and my sons.
One of the things I did earlier on in the healing of myself was to have a “goal for the week” sort of thing, and as I would discover something about myself I wanted to improve I would concentrate on that ONE thing for that ONE week.
I would read about that thing, think about it, journal about it, and try to practice it….like not being “cranky” or losing my temper would be ‘this week’s goal” and each week or so I would pick a new “project” to work on.
It didn’t have to be anything “big” or “grand” or profound, just something that I wanted to make better about myself.
Some weeks I met the goal, some weeks I didn’t but I didn’t beat myself up about it either way….just one step at a time.
I’ve made “goals” and not carried through, or changed them, as circumstances went, and some of them I probably won’t complete, but if I drop one off the list, or change the way I am going about fullfilling it, okay–LIFE IS FLUID. Go with the flow. What may seem important today may not see so important tomorrow.
I’ve always kind of been a “work-a-holic” type and felt guilty if i wasn’t doing something PRODUCTIVE every minute of every day, but sometimes the goal was to DO NOTHING and nto feel guilty about it. In the past, i’ve done plenty of doing “nothing” but I always felt guilty about it. LOL
I still find myself feeling guilty if at age 62 (almost 63) I don’t put in as much physical labor as my sons, or as many or more hours than they do—-DUH? I deserve to rest and/or kick back, I’ve EARNED the priviledge and right to sit and read a book while the guys dig the ditches! So why should I feel guilty if I don’t? So those are some of the things I am working on. Even just changing my attitude or outlook on the situation that is still the same.
Hang in there Cut, it is a long road, but one step at a time gets you there! (hugs)
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Wednesday, 16 September 2009 @ 9:53pm
Tilly says:
Thanks guys for interpreting my email from the p murderer. It helped a lot as he held me hostage for 14 years with similar words in between bashings. Since i have gone no contact with my psychopath daughter everything has reached a head. But the cops here are too corrupt and scared of my ex p murdering husband because he is still very well connected with corrupt cops as well as gangsters.
I just finished 4 and a half hours straight with my psychopath art teacher. According to this blog above, my insides are sooooo toxic that i am attracting allthese Ps in my life. That means that when I was five and my P father broke my p mothers neck, it was all my fault. Just as my p mother told me at the time and then all my life. Probably, because I was so damn negative inside when I was five that I just created that whole scenario. Good on yu!
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Thursday, 17 September 2009 @ 5:41am
blueskies says:
Donna, great article:)
I for one have no wish at all right now to embark on a brand new relationship. I have a wonderful intimate (in an emotional way not a sexy way;) long standing friendship with someone wonderful and that will do me fine for now.
Since the complete destruction of my fragile self worth at the hands of the creature I thought loved me I have found layer upon layer of problems in my life that were in situ long before he came along to ‘pull out the pin.’
My self worth was a hairs breath from complete destruction for 30 odd years.
Its been the most intense and painful period.
BUT I was already broken to start with…and of course thats going to attract sharks (just like a floundering fish), I DONT however blame myself for being ‘broken’, I had a whole life time of narcissitic abuse shaping me into a nice tasty treat for a s/p.
I think it is my responsibility to really get into why I am like I am, why I attract (and have been attracted to) bad relationships, there are reasons why I am vulnerable to toxic people, what I can do for myself, and eventually find good healthy relationships with others.
I went to a wedding recently with a friend who was ‘looking’ for a feller, or even just a fling, she introduced me to someone she thought I might like and he was very nice, but I was just not interested because I know I am not ready yet.
I dont mind not being ready yet.
I have to feel good about myself first… I have no energy for another person right now.And I know I am not going to find my ‘feel good’ in another person.
I have everything I need right now. ME.
Yes I sometimes feel lonely and tired, but I am not thinking ‘if only there was someone else there, to do this that and the other with… like I used to… like wishing some prince charming would come along and ’save’ me… or that I win the lottery … or that something will ‘happen’ to make it all better, anymore, it is a dangerous and childish mindset.
Even though its tough, and I am tired, part of me is actuallly enjoying that I am working through each phase of this all by myself. With each seemingly unsurmountable problem I solve for myself, each task I accomplish for myself, I feel better and better about myself.
I look forward to being ‘done’. being ready for what will be THE FIRST grown up and healthy relationship with a man (or a woman…you never know) I have ever had!……. so check back here in another 10 -20 years or so… I might have some good news!;)lol!!xxxxxxxx
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Thursday, 17 September 2009 @ 7:51am
areyoukiddingme says:
First, I am not sure why a year and half I chose areyoukiddingme as my login but at that time the I was in shock and crying daily hourly it was the most unbelievable experience I thought it would never stop and it did not for 5 months. When I woke up and realized I had been brainwashed for so many years I had a full nervous breakdown. I was married to a mini Bernie Madoff he was living two lives, had a Hedge Fund, and stole money. Oh well this is not the point of my blog.
Healing and finding someone new?
For 2 years now have been involved in a 12 step program and it has helped me move past this is a really really good way to heal, the support system and the steps help you to learn about you, if you can find one do it! I made a decision to wait 2 years and dig in to me. I read I wrote I connected with all of you and today I am better.
Finding someone? For me it was getting connected in the community so I got online and found volunteer groups and started helping out with these events, it was amazing to me how many there were, the people are so positive and happy and they are great to be around. It will build your self-confidence, I was not looking but here came a man that was taking pictures for the event and we became friends with a lot of chemistry, I thought I would never have that feeling again. I wasn’t looking it just happened! I did have a bit of a set back as the fear of pain again came in but I believe in love so I am moving slow with my heart.
When I got connected in volunteering, I found wonderful women new friends and I have laughed and had more fun in the last 3 months, it does wonders getting out of your house! From the volunteer groups I found singles groups and I find mostly they are just people that like to have fun (it is not a meat market at all) they have dances, hikes, movie nights so much fun. I also have plugged into networking events for my career there is a world out there I never new existed. When we are wounded so deeply we become depressed and lonely it may be hard to start but trust me you will find friendly faces fast.
Good luck out there!
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Thursday, 17 September 2009 @ 10:40am
OxDrover says:
Dear Tilly,
I completely overlooked the E MAIL tilly, but Erin interpreted it completely and correctly.
I agree though BLOCK HIS E MAIL so it will bounce back.
He is trying to hold out “susan” as a CARROT so that you will BITE and he can control you through her. the STICK is the “before she leaves forever”
Funny thing, though, he DOES NOT TRULY REALIZE HOW WISE AND STRONG YOU HAVE BECOME. The “carrot” is no carrot and the stick is not “stick”—because I can realize how I would think and feel if someone wrote me that letter (NOW) about my P-son, I would NOT be in the least tempted to believe that our relationship could be salvaged or that I would “die” if I lost all hope of having a relationship with him.
Once the carrot is no longer tempting, then the “fear” of losing it is no fear at all.
Areyoukidding me: glad things are going well for you, and it is because YOU MADE THEM GOOD, and I am glad for you. GREAT ADVICE to all of us. THANKS!!!
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Thursday, 17 September 2009 @ 10:56am
cutandrun says:
Oxy – thanks for your post – VERY helpful! I think I spent the last two days being sucked into the vortex of my own mind…
I think part of my “mental block” to coming up with answers to those questions has to do with the Christianity I was raised with, and still subscribe to, puts so much emphasis on being humble, and being “sinful”, that I have no idea what would be acceptable to say – see how backwards this thinking is – trying to determine what OTHER PEOPLE would find acceptable for me to answer.
UGHH! There is a SELF in here somewhere, I’m sure of it — now WHERE did I put it???
My husband gave me a very supportive note this morning – and in it he says “YOU COUNT TOO, not just everybody else!”
So here goes:
1. I am a smart person.
2. I have a great sense of humor.
3. I am compassionate and caring.
4. I am a good judge of character (xcept in two instances).
5. I am honest and trustworthy.
Goals:
1. To be less critical of myself.
2. To be less critical of others.
3. To be mentally/emotionally healthy.
4. To not be so concerned with what others think of me.
5. To enjoy life and not obsess over work/housework, i.e., what I “should” be doing.
How is that for a start? Answer and then I can practice not caring what others think! ha ha
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Thursday, 17 September 2009 @ 1:19pm
Ginger says:
I am in uncharted waters! HELP!
I am starting to date a bit more and find that reading chemistry with a person is an issue for me. When I met S there was instant chemistry–totally into each other. I read a book a while ago and it said that this type of instant chemistry is a bad sign and to run the other way.
Anyway, I have gone on a few dates with a man who has been nothing but a perfect gentleman. He actually meets all the criteria on my “list”…We have great conversations and he has a great sense of humor. I don’t have the same chemistry as when I met the S, which is a good thing.
How do I read chemistry in a healthy adult relationship? I can honestly say I haven’t been in a healthy adult relationship before…
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Thursday, 17 September 2009 @ 1:26pm
OxDrover says:
Dear Ginger,
ONE WORD—–SLOWLY!!!!
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Thursday, 17 September 2009 @ 1:31pm
OxDrover says:
Dear Cutandrun,
GREAT JOB!!!!
Yes, the “christianity” i was FED as a child and young adult never felt just “right” but I still accepted that I had to please my egg donor in order to please God–DUH! I also worried too much about “what the neighbors thought” and eventually realized that the FILTER through which I read the Bible was TWISTED and that I was reading it thinking my egg donor was right, that God was this angry god up there waiting to ZAP me if I displeased HER and that SHE was my “judge” of right and wrong, good and bad, etc.
Now, I have NO ONE between me and God, and MY God is a loving and kind and caring and forgiving FATHER, not this big bad ogre. I realize that my egg donor’s view of God is like the Pharisees that jesus was dealing with. He called them “whited tombs”—beautiful on the outside, but filled with ROTTEN BONES on the inside. They were the psychopaths who pretended to be so holy and good, and at the sdame time they were doing this, they were PLOTTING to get false witnesses to have him crucified. So, how “holy” were they? Of course, NOT AT ALL.
I realized that my egg donor is that way, she is so concerned that she be VIEWED by the community and the church as HOLY and CARING, and I also realize that she ONLY exposes her NASTY LYING HATEFUL SELF to me. She keeps up her MASK of kindness and charity and goodness to the “neighbors” but I HAVE SEEN HER REAL FACE, when she was confronted with a lie in her mouth, she was NOT repentful, she was NOT sorry, she was trying to “justify” her lie by pointing a finger at me and saying “well, tell me you never lied to me!” My answer was “Yes, 45 years ago when i was 15!” But to her, that JUSTIFIES her lies today.
I have seen the horrific look of evil and hate on her face, the same as I have seen it on the face of my P-son when I frustrated him by not falling for his con-job. He too can pretend to be so “holy” and quote scripture like a preacher.
But as Jesus said, even the DEVIL can quote scripture for his own purpose to deceive you.
My spiritual health is so much better now that I have stopped letting anyone come between me and God. That doesn’t mean I don’t discuss scripture with others, but I weigh their opinions or interpretations and DECIDE for myself what is right for ME.
I am learning to TRUST God’s promises in the Bible that “all will work together for GOOD to those that love God.” We may not SEE how something we consider “bad happening” will in the end be for OUR GOOD, but I TRUST that it will, and so many times since all this chaos started, I have SEEN EVIDENCE that something “bad” happening in the end, turned out to be a BLESSING because I could not see the future to know at the TIME it happened, but I am LEARNING TO TRUST GOD to take care of my needs. That in itself is comforting when I am unable to see the good possibilities in the challenges.
I realize that if nothing else now, I have a relationship with a REAL God that I never had before. Instead of just trying not to “be bad:” and refrain from doing bad things, I am looking at my relationship with God in a positive way, not a negative way. It isn’t just about “avoiding sin” any more, it is about being positive, about loving, caring, and also caring for MYSELF as well. Even God does not expect us to feed others when we are starving. We are also God’s child, and WE DESERVE to be treated well. We are told to “love your neighbor AS yourself”—that means “DO GOOD TO YOUR NEIGHBOR *AS* you do good to yourself. That does NOT mean I think to TREAT YOUR NEIGHBOR BETTER THAN YOU TREAT YOURSELF. I think God expects us to treat ourselves WELL.
I think one of my biggest FAULTS was treating others better than I treated myself, having a much more stringent code of ethics for MYSELF than I did for others. I expected me to be “better” and “give more” and “do more” for others and I didn’t ‘deserve anything.
Now, I am looking at doing for MYSELF and for others as well, but SHARING with others, not giving it ALL to others. And, not giving it to the “swine” who will trample my “pearls” under foot into the mire.
I am re-reading the old stories of the Bible with NEW insight. Getting new meanings out of the familiar stories.
Also, I am LEARNING TO FORGIVE MYSELF for being Human and for not being perfect. I never expected others to be “perfect” but I always DID expect me to be PERFECT, and if I wasn’t Perfect, I was no good at all. That was my egg donor’s point of view, but no longer mine. I am not perfect, but I am trying to do the best I can, so that makes me GOOD ENOUGH, God takes care of the rest of it.
I wrote an article a while back about “forgiving yourself for being human”—look it up on LF and read that, it will explain the rest of my thoughts on that aspect. Kkeep me in your prayers as I keep you, and all of LF in mine. (((hugs))))
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Thursday, 17 September 2009 @ 1:50pm
cutandrun says:
Oxy,
yes yes yes to all of the above! Part of what made me vulnerable to S#2 was almost two decades of membership in a church that didn’t necessarily PREACH but rather, at least EXAMPLED a veiled form of legalism. And a huge battle with pastor over the past two years, who I now know to be a N. The emporer has no clothes and the rest of the congregation (those that are still there) refuse to see it. In 2006 that church lost almost half it’s membership. It was a very small church to begin with. Now there are about 30 people there, most related to each other. Oooh that even sounds creepy as I write it.
Anyways, legalism is anything that you put faith in beyond, or alongside, your faith in Christ. IOW, Jesus AND _____, fill in the blank, will save me. Jesus AND giving $X to the church, Jesus AND serving on the board, Jesus AND being a sunday school teacher, Jesus AND being a “good daughter”. In the end, Jesus doesn’t require, more than that, demands, that we bring NOTHING with us, just me & him. We can’t “contribute” to our own salvation. We can’t try to be PERFECT in order to have a relationship with God.
This subject has become so repulsive to me and I am so sensitive to it I had to have a discussion with my husband about him sounding a bit “preachy” to me in his notes. Gosh I am so thankful to not be in that church anymore.
Unfortunately, my whatever you want to call them parents jumped ship with us and are at the new church with us too. And my whatever he is father is starting to complain about it already. Well, there must be a lot yet that I have to learn….
I have heard some folks using the term “Cluster B”, what does that mean?
Yep I will be praying!
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Thursday, 17 September 2009 @ 2:54pm
justabouthealed says:
Ginger…don’t worry about chemistry. Worry about whether he is a good friend. Leave out sex. That complicates everything. Oxy is right. Go slowly. Keep the relationship in perspective. It is not the be all and end all of everything. Sounds like you know that. Good for you.
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Thursday, 17 September 2009 @ 3:19pm
OxDrover says:
Dear Cut and Run,
“Cluster B” is a GROUP of similar personality disorders with a BIT of a different twist in each one, but ALL DISORDERS that cause PAIN and CHAOS. The term comes from the place on the diagnostic “form” that they are noted on by professionals. That term applies to narcissistic PD, histrionic PD, anti-social PD (sociopath or psychopath) and so on, but the BOTTOM LINE is these people are ALL TOXIC and it does not matter which “label” we tag on to their disorder they are COMPLWETELY TOXIC
If we just label them TOXIC it covers them all. I think sometimes we get hung up on the “correct” label. My egg donor does not fit the criteria (PC-R) for a “psychopath” or even anti-social personality disorder, but she is a CONTROL FREAK HYPOCRITIC ABUSER so the label doesn’t matter.
Because this started when I was little and she (like all parents even bad ones) are “god” to a toddler, I never noticed that she did not LIVE what she preached. I had the idea that she COULD NEVER TELL A LIE, so when she lied to me, I always found some EXCUSE why it was a “misunderstanding” or “miscommunication” it NEVER DAWNED ON ME THAT SHE WOULD DELIBERATELY LIE. So when you have that sort of belief, NOTHING makes you doubt them or their “good intentions”—it is like a CULT. That article I wrote about “Reverend” Tony Alamo who is a stereotypical “cult leader” and lead these people off down the garden path to oget them to furnish him their 9-12 year old daughters for him to “marry” several at a time and convinced them this was God’s will! DUH!!!! I was just as HOODWINKED as Alamo’s flock, only my cult was only ME as a victim, and to everyone else, she kept up this pious mask. Now that she is old and infirm,, she uses that pity play card as well, how her ONLY child has “deserted” her, but that child is “mentally ill” and “irrational” and she is soooo patient waiting for me to come to my senses! WHERE IS THE PUKE EMOTICON WHEN YOU YOU NEED ONE?
When I realize that I believed that crap, I believed her “holiness” and “good intentions” and “its for your own good, dear” when she was using me, I want to BOINK myself on the head with the skillet. However, I realize also that just like I train a baby calf to wear a yoke and to follown my commands and when they grow up to 2,000 pounds they still think I am MORE POWERFUL than they are because they will NEVER QUESTION my authority or my power.
Thank God in His mercy that i finially DID question, that I finally DID see the light, and I finally DID see behind her mask so that I now KNOW she is just as evil intentioned as my P-son, no matter what her “label is”
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Thursday, 17 September 2009 @ 3:33pm
skylar says:
I looked up the book, “Looking for Mr. Goodbar” because I think someone mentioned it here. I have never read it but read portions of it online.
It seems that the character Theresa was cluster B as were her parents and her sister and her teacher and her bf, tony. Unfortunately, she ran into the psychopath cluster B who kills her at the end. But without having had cluster B family, she would never have fallen for the cluster B teacher, who abused her emotionally and cluster B, tony who continued the abuse. The entire lifestyle, which ended in death, was a result of all the abuse she had taken since childhood.
The story is amazing in it’s ability to take the entire cluster B profile and disperse it among the characters and then have them interact. The unavoidable consequence being death, of course.
I feel like I can relate to Theresa’s emotional state from having been ignored and devalued by cluster B parents who preferred to shower my P-sister with attention. I went crazy and hitchhiked everywhere I went, literally tempting fate when I met the GR killer.
Ironically, having met my exP at such a young age and having had quite a bit of money from a settlement (which made him decide to let me live for a few years) may have been what saved my life. On the other hand, it was not much of a life, I went from being my parents’ prisoner/slave to being xP’s prisoner/slave.
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Thursday, 17 September 2009 @ 5:35pm
cutandrun says:
Oxy I was just looking at the various disorders and I think what may fit my dad is Intermittent Explosive Disorder. Only I didn’t get enough info yet, as he never “explodes” with other people, only with immediate family. And I have never seen any remorse or depression – he may take care of that as he is very generous with his time and $$ towards us – doesn’t lavish stuff on us but is helpful with our son’s college tuition, will come over and fix things, etc…. Sometimes I think this is “reparaitions” (sp?) for what we sometimes go through.
Also he professes Christianity and perhaps is more “controlled” by what he is supposed to believe, he’s only hit my mom once that I can remember. Hitting us was considered “spankings”.
I know that he has to have a set routine for his days, if unexpected things happen, he gets all discombobulated and is much more likely to try and find a reason to blow up. I’m sure this is the way his mind/body has learned(or been taught) to relieve stress – sadly we’ve always “allowed” it, been enablers. Well, from birth to teen you don’t really have a choice…..but mom never stood up for us.
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Thursday, 17 September 2009 @ 5:57pm
OxDrover says:
Dear Cut and run,
sometimes these “explosive” things are a sign of anxiety and as the anxiety builds it is “released’ in an explosion of anger and violence, but that relieves the “tension’ and then rinse and repeat again.
If he EVER hit your mom (and he may have done this more than you know) and he does the intermitten explosions I would call him an ABUSER regardless of what the root problem is.
I wish I coudl say this is something unusual but I am afraid it isn’t. The attitude of “let’s pretend that none of that happened” and I will be nice to you til next time, is what I grew up with as well. My egg donnor actually said those words “Let’s just pretend none of this happened” and it was like CLICK, the LIGHT WENT ON IN MY HEAD and I realize that this was our FAMILY MOTTO. I realized that INSTANT I did not want to play that “game” any more. I refused to play that game and she refused to “talk” about any of it, to settle any thing, to admit to anything, she just wanted to play “pretend.”
I won’t play pretend, I won’t let anyone talk to me or treat me like that again and then PRETEND it didn’t happen. I have eliminated those people from my life, and it makes life so much better. living in the REALITY of now. WOW! I didn’t know it could be so good. I was so always afraid to confront the truth, to make them confront the truth, and they didn’t confront the truth, so the choice is theirs, they are out of my life.
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Thursday, 17 September 2009 @ 6:21pm
cutandrun says:
*sigh* I know, I know…..I think I am just in a “researching” phase of everything I am going through, looking for as many answers as might be out there to find. Abuse is abuse is abuse is abuse, I understand that, but am in no position and not prepared to cut myself off from the rest of my family.
But, I can decide how I will handle any further abuse that might come my way. I wonder what might happen if I do something like refuse to speak to him until he can speak politely and be respectful. And, my husband also has my back now — and is prepared to stand up for me like he never was before. He never was before, really.
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Thursday, 17 September 2009 @ 6:53pm
Stargazer says:
Dear Areyoukiddingme,
Thanks for coming back and telling us what helped. I feel like I too need to get connected into a support group more than my online communities. A guy who was visiting me last weekend turned his life around with the 12 step program. He stopped drinking 2 years ago, but only in the past year he began working the steps, going diligently to meetings and taking on sponsees. He has made huge strides in his life. He is a happy and successful person. I haven’t had much luck with support groups I’ve tried. I even dabbled in 12 step groups for a while but found the people so needy and wanting to descend on me like flies, pushing a lot of dogma on me, when they don’t seem particularly peaceful themselves. This guy seems genuinely happy so it is making me think. I’m wondering if there is a 12 step group I could join. I don’t drink or have any major addictions, and I can’t seem to find a generic group of people who are just following the 12 steps. Also, it takes a while (sometimes a year or longer) of friendship before I can open up to someone, though it sometimes depends on the person. I do feel like it’s the piece that is missing in my life right now. I am thinking of joining a few social clubs. I was invited to join Mensa, assuming I could pass the test. I think it will be good for me to do this. Does anyone have any ideas about generic 12 step groups? I have a background in intensive meditation practice, but Buddhist groups don’t seem to have built in support for people who have been abused.
I just came back from an acupuncture appointment. I went for a sinus infection. While it doesn’t seem to be helping the sinus infection, it seemed to jar some energy around a little and is helping me get in touch more with my feelings. I’m wondering how it would be to get acupuncture treatments that were specifically designed for depression and emotional clearing.
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Thursday, 17 September 2009 @ 8:39pm
OxDrover says:
Dear Cutandrun,
When you set a boundary you must be prepared to cut that person out of your life if they do not respect that boundary.
As long as you are NOT willing to set a firm boundary and stick to it….oh, well you get the idea.
“Dad, it hurts me when you scream mean things to me when you are angry. Please do not do that.”
Eventually, If he keeps on doing it—what are your options? Continue to let him, or cut him off, and walk away.
The boundary I set for my egg donor was NO MORE LIES, and NO more money to the man (my P son) who tried to kill me.
She continued to do both. My only options were :
A) pretend it never happened
B) NO CONTACT, which is what I told her the consequence would be for her lying and sending money to the P-son.
Actually, I think she didn’t believe I would “hold out” for very long, that i would eventually break no contact and “give in”—what she does not realize is that I will never trust her, never play let’s pretend again.
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Thursday, 17 September 2009 @ 8:55pm
Stargazer says:
Oxy,
I love when you post about boundaries. I always find myself nodding. Today is my mother’s birthday. As she has never made amends for all the pain she caused me nor ever honored her promise to let me talk about my feelings about the past when they come up, I am done with her, too. No fake relationships for me.
On an unrelated note, I wanted to share something with all of you that I have found very helpful today in dealing with depression. I had an acupuncture treatment for an unrelated health issue. It seems to have really helped with emotional healing. I may go back and get some sessions specifically for that. Acupuncture has no bad side effects like medications do, and it helps balance out organ function, which gets depleted with prolonged stress, trauma, and even a prolonged period of medications. I’ve had acupuncture before for stress and depression and loved it, but for that it can be somewhat expensive. Just wanted to pass that along to anyone wanting to try something different. It seems to be helping me get unstuck.
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Thursday, 17 September 2009 @ 9:11pm
OxDrover says:
Dear Star,
Glad my posts are helpful t oyou, believe me I have to REINFORCE them on myself, so I am “preaching” to myself more than to anyone else. Boundaries are HARD when you have been taught all your life that you “must’n't upset” anyone else no matter how they act, or “cause a scene.”
Heck, if someone “hits” me and I “hit back” then I AM CAUSING A SCENE HOW? It is not my purpose to “not upset” someone because THEY are acting abusively! How RUDE it would be for me to confront them. LOL ROTFLMAO, but I have to keep reminding myself.
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Thursday, 17 September 2009 @ 9:30pm
Stargazer says:
I know what you mean, Oxy. Sometimes when I write about all the boundaries I’ve had to set with people, I find myself second guessing myself….”was I just being a bitch? etc.” Your boundary stories alway give me confirmation. Not too many people have the courage to go NC with their own mother. You are probably the only other one I know. And I know you would not do it if you had a choice about it, but there really is no other choice when she so grossly disrespects your boundaries, which could possibly be a life-or-death issue for you with your P son.
I set another boundary today and I’m quite proud. My boss has a tendency to micromanage a few projects I’ve taken on. I don’t really care except when she forgets to follow through, and that places an undue burden on me. So I told her today I was “off” one project, because she forgot to send out a time-sensitive survey that needed to be sent. I could have sent out the survey myself months ago, but she wanted to be the one to do it. So basically, I just handed her over the project. It felt so good. I could see the stress in her face when she realized she now had one more massive project to do. But eventually, she’ll figure out she brought it on herself via her micromanaging. It just feels so good to just say no.
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Thursday, 17 September 2009 @ 10:16pm
skylar says:
Stargazer,
yes acupuncture is really helpful for emotional stress.
I think it was the only thing that got me through the first few weeks after I realized that I had been living with a homocidal maniac for 25 years.
There is a nationwide chain of accupuncture clinics called communichi. they do 10 people in one room all laying on recliner chairs and it only costs $15/session in seattle.
that’s because they don’t have private rooms for each person.
look at this link for practitioners in your area.
http://www.communityacupunctur.....clinics#CO
I’m having PTSD again, and need to go in for a tune up.
Weird thing about the PTSD is that it makes me want to contact the P! It’s as though the fear and horror is so terrible that I want to face it. I want to confront it and either die or get past it. I keep fantasizing about it.
There is also a type of acupuncture called esoteric acupuncture that is supposed to balance your chakras and get you past all this emotional crap. but the only practitioner is in LA.
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Thursday, 17 September 2009 @ 10:34pm
shabbychic says:
I really have to learn how to say no.
What is the community accupuncture like? There is one near me.
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Thursday, 17 September 2009 @ 10:49pm
skylar says:
SC,
You go into a large, quiet room with soft, newage or eastern meditation music in the background. Their are about 10 recliners arranged far apart along the edges of the room.
Depending on how busy they are, the recliners could all be full with sleeping people or the room could be mostly empty.
You do a quick interview with the acupuncturist before you enter the treatment room. They do a limited acupuncture “set” because obviously you leave your clothes on and you recline on your back so they only do your front. But you do take off your socks and shoes. They check your pulse and insert needles in your ears, head, face, arms, hands, feet or lower legs. You fall asleep and stay for an hour or so. You decide when you are done “cooking”.
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Thursday, 17 September 2009 @ 11:17pm
skylar says:
2 days ago I had this dream, it was two dreams in sequence I guess:
I’m in school and taken out of class to hear a lecture/field trip on evolution.
One teacher, a man with his face wrapped in bandages so only part of it was showing,
takes me somewhere and buys me a burger, but he keeps eating bites of it.
Then he kisses me and I kiss back, but just as I’m getting very passionate, he stops and takes me back to school.
Later, I’m meeting with my XP to consider new living arrangements. He is living in a trialer with an male friend of mine and lots of other grungy hippie guys. I tell him what I know that he is and I knock him to the ground and stomp on him all over his body until he is completely flat. Then we get back to re-arranging the furniture in the trailer so that I can move in. Past the area where we will be living, I can see that the trailer is really long and goes on like a tunnel for miles with lots of locked doors lining the hallway.
I think I get parts of these dreams but if anyone wants to take a whack at interpreting, be my guest.
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Thursday, 17 September 2009 @ 11:28pm
Stargazer says:
Thanks SO much for that link, Skylar! I will be checking it out.
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Thursday, 17 September 2009 @ 11:42pm
Stargazer says:
What a fascinating dream. And the last part sounds very Freudian. I have found a very powerful way to interpret your own dreams is to tell the dream from the point of view of one of the characters or objects in the dream. For instance, you can be the man with the bandages. Tell the dream as though you were him. Talk about why you have the bandages, and what they are hiding. You can also tell the dream from the point of view of the bandages. If you try this, let me know!
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Thursday, 17 September 2009 @ 11:47pm
Stargazer says:
shabbychic,
Having boundaries in part has to do with feeling grounded in your body. It’s easier to set boundaries when you are more grounded. Acupuncture certainly helps with that. So does massage (have to plug my profession, you know).
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Thursday, 17 September 2009 @ 11:49pm
shabbychic says:
Yes, thanks for the link, I’ve always wanted to try acupuncture, maybe that would be an inexpensive way to go, and thank you Stargazer for bring the subject up and recommending it! I looked up the esoteric guy in LA, it’s probably too expensive, maybe just for fun I’ll call and ask.
I’m not good at interpreting dreams, sorry
but I like the part about you stomping all over him until he is completely flat! Maybe the tunnel is… you see no end to his lies and crap and you don’t want to fall into it. Maybe re-arranging the furniture is about re-arranging your life, or maybe you wish he could re-arrange his brain so you could be with him.
The dream about the teacher is a doozie, I’ll be interested to see if someone comes up with something on that!
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Thursday, 17 September 2009 @ 11:57pm
geminigirl says:
I think there was an old movie called “the invisible man. he was covered from head to foot with bandages, like an Egyptian Mummy. When he was captured, and they unwound all the bandages, there was no one in there,nothing but empty space, or an “empty suit.”All narcopaths a re “empty suits or “empty dresses”. They only mirror emotions, they have no real emotions of their own, except perhaps anger and envy.So, Skylar, maybe this one interpretation. Gem. XX
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Friday, 18 September 2009 @ 12:30am
skylar says:
I’m pretty sure there was more to the dream but that is all I could remember.
my interpretation is that I have much to learn so I’m in school, but the man taking me out on a field trip to learn about evolution is my XP. He wears bandages on part of his face because he is masking part of his true identity with the bandages (the pity ploy). The reference to evolution is because I believe that narcissism is a survival mechanism that has evolved in humanity, unfortunately it is the root of evil too. He buys me a burger but keeps taking bites for himself because that is what he always did, pretend to give me something but it was usually with ulterior motives where HE was going to benefit. The abrupt kiss is just him not wanting me to experience any joy and going back to school is telling me that I have much more to learn.
The 2nd part of the dream is telling me that I want to go back to the xP and live together but first I want him to pay consequences for the past. The long hall with locked doors represents the future and all the mysteries and lies that still exist, needing to be unlocked.
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Friday, 18 September 2009 @ 12:37am
geminigirl says:
Maybe better to keep them locked! Gem.XX
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Friday, 18 September 2009 @ 1:07am
kim frederick says:
Skylar, In the first partof your dream you’re in school.(learning life lessons) You are then taken on a feild trip, (you are out of the classroom taking a more”hands on approach” learning these lessons. Your teacher is wearing bandages. I liked Gem’s interpretation, of the mummy. You must remember Mummys are ancient relics, from the past. Also his bandages could be the sociopathic mask. He buys you a burger, but then takes a bite out of it. Nothing he givesyou is really yours. Also you are studying Evolution. You are studying yourself evolving.
Houses ussually represent the self. But this is his house. (trailor) It could mean that you are dragging him along behind you like a trailor. The locked doors reminded me of Bluebeard. As Gem said Better to keep them locked. Oh and you rearranging the furniture…trying to rearrange his psychological furniture so you can move in. NO NO NO.
This part scares me. ((((HUGS)))
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Friday, 18 September 2009 @ 7:35am
kim frederick says:
Stargazer, I don’t know your particulars, so I may be off the mark here, but co-dependants anonomous may help you. It is not alanon which is specifically related to alcohol co-dependance, but is more generic. If you are one who makes excuses for your PSN or enables, or care-takes, or people-pleases, if you are frustrated, angry and hurt…If you want to fix him/her, if you prefer denial to the truth, because,of course the truth hurts…You might findit very helpful. However you don’t need to go to meetings to work the program. If you still have a “Big Book” the twelve steps are out-lined in it. I might be able to help, if you have questions.
Also, I’m very glad you’ve met someone nice, and happy for him that He’s doing well. But pleasedon’t make the mistake of letting him be the 5th steps’ “other human being!” You need a dear and trusted person,friend, priest for this. He hasn’t earned that trust. I know it’s tempting, because he is in the program, and working it, but he’snot the one to help with this step. Also, I think there may be twelve step programs for partners of personality disordered people. You might go on line to check that out. I think the twelve steps are helpful in any situation, and I try to live by them daily. Good luck.
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Friday, 18 September 2009 @ 7:51am
kim frederick says:
Hi Skylar, me again. Do you remember the old black and white horror flick, “The Invisable Man”? He used to put bandages on in order to become visible. Just thought of that. Your “teachers’ influence in your life may no longer be visible or obvious to you, consciously, but your unconscious sees it clearly. Also, bandages signify damages or wounds being covered. This could mean that you recognize that this person is not emotionally healthy. Just my 2 cents.
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Friday, 18 September 2009 @ 8:05am
skylar says:
good one Kim,
the bandages were to hide the wounds or damage, so I will never completely know what he looks like. Interesting that he is my teacher. Knowing him has taught me stuff I would never have uncovered in any other way.
Gem,
yeah, those locked doors seem to hold more narcissists. I got the feeling the whole trailer was filled with narcissists.
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Friday, 18 September 2009 @ 9:38am
kim frederick says:
Hey Stargazer, I just typed in Love addicts anonomous on the web search and came upon a 40 question quiz, to help in deciding if it applys to me. Very interesting. There is also a discussion of the twelve steps and how to apply them to this addiction. I would post the link but I don’t know how. I don’t know if this is helpful to you, but it looks like a place wheronecan find guidance and support. I believe I might visit it on occasion.
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Friday, 18 September 2009 @ 10:19am
heartmoonstar says:
skylar said:
“I posted an interesting video about focus a while back, but can’t find the link now. Does anyone remember the link to the basketball players in white teeshirts?”
…here is the link:
http://www.personalgrowthcours.....experiment
I had sent it out in my email and was able to retrieve it. Yes, it was very interesting to me and anyone I showed it too….gads, the obvious is never obvious, is it?
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Friday, 18 September 2009 @ 5:29pm
kim frederick says:
Skylar, I think you posted that in the sheep in wolves clothing thread. Very shocking to say the least!
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Friday, 18 September 2009 @ 5:39pm
skylar says:
thanks hms.
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Friday, 18 September 2009 @ 5:41pm
Stargazer says:
Thank you for the info, Kim. I don’t really have any of the addictions that send people to the 12 steps, so I don’t know if it would be helpful or not. I don’t have problems care-taking. I’m definitely not an enabler. I’m thinking I may just need a social outlet and some medications for depression or just some weekly acupuncture. I would never use the 27-year-old boy as a support for the 5th step. In fact, we have not even spoken since his visit, and I don’t know if/when we will again. I’m doing my best to detach myself from him right now, and I don’t really want to talk to him while this is happening. I really do feel I need more of an outlet than what I have. I tend to be very private. It’s rare that my feelings are just flowing so when they do, I don’t have many people I can talk to about them. I cannot afford a therapist and didn’t get much help from the last one anyway. I will keep looking.
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Friday, 18 September 2009 @ 7:26pm
shabbychic says:
Stargazer, well I guess you are out on one of the dates you had lined up for this weekend, while I sit here watching Tombstone for the 100th time! LOL
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Friday, 18 September 2009 @ 10:05pm
Stargazer says:
No dates tonight, SC. I have one tomorrow and one Sunday. I am grieving over the boy though and not too excited about meeting anyone. I have put Tombstone on my list. Too bad we all didn’t live closer; we could have a movie night.
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Friday, 18 September 2009 @ 10:17pm
kim frederick says:
Stargazer, I didn’t mean to presume. I have a tendancy to “read in.” I’m sorry. I would just like to help, if I can.
I can’t afford therapy either. Please don’t think I was passing judgement, I was only trying pass on what has been helpful to me. God bless.
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Friday, 18 September 2009 @ 10:22pm
shabbychic says:
A movie night would be a blast! I just want to be around fun people, it doesn’t have to be a guy, I think everyone has read enough of my pathetic posts about being alone, I can’t think of one gf that would want to watch a movie, I must know the wrong people, they are all in relationships, so when I was in a relationshit I wouldn’t go anywhere either, this has all turned into crap! 2 fun friends live about 3000 miles away from me.
Maybe one of your dates will help you forget about the boy! HA HA
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Friday, 18 September 2009 @ 10:48pm
Tilly says:
I sent an email to my psychopath daughter that if she or HER FATHER contact me again I will get an AVO (apprehended violence order) against them. My ex p husband used to say “charging me is like charging a wounded bull”. and its true. But this wounded bull forces his women victims to write a letter (” sorry but i am going away because of the pressure bla bla” his words) then strangles or drowns them. But i don’t know how he gets rid of their body and all the evidence so well that you never hear from them again. Any rate then they are not listed as missing. i have told the police 6 times over the years, to no avail.
He tried to do it to me twice before i left (after 14 years of bashings) but without the letter.
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Friday, 18 September 2009 @ 10:55pm
Tilly says:
According to this blog, my insides were so negative i attracted this experience. HUH! Just to add to all the other crap I’ve been blamed for i now have negative insides! lol!
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Friday, 18 September 2009 @ 10:58pm
skylar says:
Tilly, You don’t have negative insides.
I think that this blog is just trying to explain, that shit happens and we have to find a way to benefit from each and every horrible encounter somewhere down the line.
I still don’t get how a baby born to P-parents can do that. But maybe with God’s help…
I saw a guy on tv with one leg, dancing. He was good.
A girl with no arms and no legs was dancing her own choreographed dance as a special exhibit for a ballet company. My P-mother is always pointing out these people to me. It’s her way of making me feel bad because I’m not crippled physically but yet have not managed to get on tv with my own accomplishments.
Next time she does that, I will say, “yes, that cripple must have had parents who loved and encouraged him/her every day.
(when are we going to get an emoicon for dry wit or sarcasm? – I’m feeling like no one cares about my inability to emoticate)
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Friday, 18 September 2009 @ 11:34pm
blueskies says:
Tilly you dont have intrinsically ‘negative insides’, why would any of our LF authors want to blame us for what happened
I think if we are all honest though, unless we deal and heal from our experiences we are affected by them.
As a child you are not able to do that so often your pain is carried into adulthood and affects you negatively. It is not you fault for goodness sakes! Its human naturexxx
The point in my opionon is that we as survivours NEED to look at what it is that makes US vulnerable, hell what it is that prevents us from feeling happy and content, and HEAL before tying to embark on another relationship.
For instance: I believe the perpetual pain and hurt I felt through years of nacissistic injury and neglect by my parents, left me wandering around this planet looking for ’someone to love me’(one amongst lots of other little negative things I’ve developed, low self esteem, negative self talk, feelings of hopelessness, need for validation from others), someone to think I WAS okay, someone to fill the emptiness of my un-loved child self. I was so desperate to be loved, I was as pliable as putty. the s/p could take as much as he liked and I’d still cling on because ‘FINALLY I found SOMEONE!’
Being that vulnerable attracts the sharks, there is no doubt about it…
IT IS NOT MY FAULT that me in my ‘negative state’ (because that’s what it IS) attracts sharks, but I need to recognise what I am doing, work through it and HEAL.
No way am I heading into a relationship in that state again, in that fog of pain and need, no wonder I got ‘blindsided’, I couldnt see the wood for the trees. (that is not a self blame statement btw, I may have been blind but I didnt ask to be torn to peices by an evil thing!;)xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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Saturday, 19 September 2009 @ 4:02am
blueskies says:
Tilly you dont have intrinsically ‘negative insides’, why would any of our LF authors want to blame us for what happened
I think if we are all honest though, unless we deal and heal from our experiences we are affected by them.
As a child you are not able to do that so often your pain is carried into adulthood and affects you negatively. It is not you fault for goodness sakes! Its human naturexxx
The point in my opionon is that we as survivours NEED to look at what it is that makes US vulnerable, hell what it is that prevents us from feeling happy and content, and HEAL before tying to embark on another relationship.
For instance: I believe the perpetual pain and hurt I felt through years of nacissistic injury and neglect by my parents, left me wandering around this planet looking for ’someone to love me’(one amongst lots of other little negative things I’ve developed, low self esteem, negative self talk, feelings of hopelessness, need for validation from others), someone to think I WAS okay, someone to fill the emptiness of my un-loved child self. I was so desperate to be loved, I was as pliable as putty. the s/p could take as much as he liked and I’d still cling on because ‘FINALLY I found SOMEONE!’
Being that vulnerable attracts the sharks, there is no doubt about it…
IT IS NOT MY FAULT that me in my ‘negative state’ (because that’s what it IS) attracts sharks, but I need to recognise what I am doing, work through it and HEAL.
No way am I heading into a relationship in that state again, in that fog of pain and need, no wonder I got ‘blindsided’, I couldnt see the wood for the trees. (that is not a self blame statement btw, I may have been blind but I didnt ask to be torn to peices by an evil thing!;)xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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Saturday, 19 September 2009 @ 4:02am
blueskies says:
Skylar – lol!
I CARE about your inability to emoticate sister!
Donna we need to set up a separate inability to properly emoticate anonymous (IPEA) support group.;)
(oh poo – I just saw that I posted twice above, apologies everyone.x)
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Saturday, 19 September 2009 @ 4:07am
kim frederick says:
Am I to assume that an emoticon is that funny little yellow face that pops up every now and again? How do you type it? See, Skylar, at least you know about emoticating. I’m just learning these things.LOL.
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Saturday, 19 September 2009 @ 9:02am
skylar says:
Kim,
it turns into a little yellow face. same goes with “:P”, “:(”
when you type a “:” and a “)” together, that indicates a smiley face,”:)” but if I type it without the quotes
and maybe others. Try it, and see.
Also to link to a page, I just copy the url at the top of the page then paste it here. This box turns it into a link.
This was evidence to me that the box I’m typing in, is turning the text into HTML code when necessary.
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Saturday, 19 September 2009 @ 10:57am
Stayingsane says:
Ah I keep messing up on the not confronting my ex P!!! I succumbed to sending him an e-mail with all his lies listed, his crimes committed etc. I call him everything under the sun. Tell him I am taking him to court etc…..I regret it now as I handed him all my pain and anxiety on a plate and I he just ignored it all anyway….I have actually decided the pain ends here. No more court, no more contact AT ALL…I am desperately lonely..too distressed to date anyone….chasing after a moron psychopath who wouldn’t even register being caught as even remotely shaming or embarrassing…I have to let go of getting justice…he will be happy about that, it means one more obstacle obliterated….to go after him keeps me chained to him…It’s like I cant get him off me….I keep trying to get him off my life….he wont go!!! he has me either way..I get my money he gets my energy and time, I let him go? he still has my money and thats like having a part of me….how can I get him off me? how can I get clear of him?
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Saturday, 19 September 2009 @ 11:16am
justabouthealed says:
You said “no more court” so I think you have made your decision. It sounds like a good one to me. Money is only money. You can replace it or do without it.
But time and energy….you can’t replace that. Enough. You are saying enough.
I said enough too.
Maybe that email was what you needed to send for YOURSELF, not him. I sent one like that too, and frankly I don’t care what his reaction was….all I know is it is probably something I didn’t expect, because that is how he is. BUT it made me feel good to write it, and I hope it made you feel good to write yours at the time.
Now I have decided never will he ever hear from me again. I will hang up, I will delete, whatever. AGain, I’m doing this for ME. Who cares what he thinks of it. Finally it is about ME, not him.
That is how you get him off, how you get clear. STart focusing on yourself. And start holding up those “no trespassing signs like that other blog suggests (going NC in your mind).
If this is a repeated pattern, then read, read, read, like The Betrayal Bond. But read with the focus on YOU not him.
I think it is GREAT when we reach the stage of telling them off. GAME IS OVER.
If you need to tell him off more, do so, but don’t send the emails. Block his email. Block him on face book. Or even consider a new email address and drop the old account. Let everyone else know, but not him.
It is hard…our focus was on them for so long, even when apart. It is hard to change ANY habit, let alone our feelings for someone. So it will take some time. Maybe lots of time. But you sound determine.
I had fun putting little stop signs up around my desk, etc…to remind myself to stop …go NC.
Good luck.
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Saturday, 19 September 2009 @ 12:56pm
skylar says:
Yes, in living reality means not confronting those who are delusional as if they were rational human beings. That is where the CRAZY-MAKING occurs. We keep thinking something we say or do will make a difference, but that is because we are trying things that would work on a rational person.
The people of the lie have been living in a world of their own making for so long that they are beginning to lose touch with reality. Just like the Phillip Garrido guy, who now believes he had a relationship with Jaycee. My xP has also gone off the deep end. His fantasies about being persecuted by cops and homeland security have finally left him permanently paranoid. Karma gets you even if you never leave your house!! Just the lies you tell yourself will haunt you. Reality is the only way to go.
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Saturday, 19 September 2009 @ 1:08pm
Stargazer says:
Kim, I never thought you were presuming, nor did that thought even cross my mind, so please don’t worry you have offended me! I am hard to offend.
I do get confused about whether the 12-steps are right for me. Everyone in a 12-step program says they are. But I cannot identify an addiction for the 1st step. I feel like I’m a lot healthier than a lot of the people in the programs that I’ve met (although I think the young boy from last weekend is in a much better place than I am). At the same time, I have a lot of grief buried and don’t have much of an outlet for talking about it or bringing it out. I know I have a lot of things to work on. I just need to find the right outlet. I don’t want to come off as pious or holy or anything. I just can’t seem to relate to a lot of the groups I check out. The best thing that’s worked for me so far is acupuncture. After the session, I could really feel energy shifting around, and unresolved emotions bubbling to the surface. Maybe I just need to continue with this and other forms of energy work. I believe these unresolved emotions are at the bottom of all my issues with men, and why I keep getting attracted to men I can’t have. This is as true of the boy from last weekend as it is of the sociopath. I wish I could do a 2-week silent meditation retreat like the ones I used to do. But with a job and animals (especially snakes), I just can’t seem to find time to get off the treadmill. But even this is a thought that I am creating, that I need a certain structure in order to get well. Maybe I don’t need it at all.
The original article talks about how until we purge all of the negativity inside us, we will continue to attract unhealthy relationships. I don’t see this as a life sentence or description of us as people. I see it as really good news because it is something we have absolute power over. We can release the old pain. I have released enough of it to see lots of changes in my life, but I still have more work to do. I am so grateful to have all of you here to witness the process I’m going through. I hope some day I can write in and say I feel completely clear of all the negativity. And maybe some day I will report that I met a guy I really like who is actually available to me.
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Saturday, 19 September 2009 @ 2:44pm
Stargazer says:
Well, speaking of purging negativity, I’m really going through it now over the young guy from last weekend. I am in the midst of acute grief, and boy does it hurt. I’ve been just hugging myself and crying. I hope it ends at some point. I knew what I was getting into with him, playing with fire, but I didn’t know how much it would hurt. I have tried to move on, going out on two dates with guys my age this weekend. While it was a pleasant distraction, I still have the boy on my mind. I think it needs to run its course. I’ve been here before with guys, and it really sucks. At least he’s not a sociopath, so I don’t have that added betrayal to deal with. I’m just so tired of going through this with guys. I have gotten so much attention from men lately, but the ones who get my attention the most continue to be the young ones (late 20’s/early 30’s). I really don’t know what to do about it. I guess it will all work itself out in the end, when I go into the monastery. *sad smirk*
Thanks for letting me vent.
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Sunday, 20 September 2009 @ 10:46pm
skylar says:
Stargazer,
It’s part of the process, I think. We are lonely and we want to have that special someone. But you weren’t ready. It wasn’t him or you, it was the timing. You did the right thing going out with him because you moved the process along, that painful process that needs to continue until you come out the other side. You will date more people you will get more perspective, never forget to focus on that. Never forget to focus on reality. And you will come out the other side, we all will.
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Sunday, 20 September 2009 @ 10:51pm
skylar says:
I rented the video DOUBT with meryl streep. she’s such a great actress, possibly the very greatest.
I highly recommend the movie because you will see the narcissist right away!!
This is one movie where the LF gang will have NO DOUBT about what’s going on. watch for all the red flags we are constantly talking about.
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Monday, 21 September 2009 @ 12:23am
Stargazer says:
Thanks for putting this in perspective for me, Skylar. (Curious where your username comes from, BTW). I feel like I have lost some self-respect by sleeping with the boy, though the kissing and hugging was fine. The sex is the part, though it seemed like a good idea at the time, is what made him distance himself afterward. Live and learn. If I could do it over again, I wouldn’t have done that part of it. Seemed like a good idea at the time.
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Monday, 21 September 2009 @ 10:10am
skylar says:
From a website:
Skyler (Danish), and the meaning of Skylar is “scholar, protection; fugitive; giving shelter”.
Stargazer,
I chose the name because it means “protection through knowledge” or something like that.
It was knowledge that finally gave me an edge on the xP.
Your assessment that you were equally vulnerable made you sleep with him, but afterward you realized that you were not equal, you were more vulnerable than he was. You feel like you lost and he gained. That’s not necessarily the case.
But it was a good idea, because if you don’t mind the pain too much, you realize that it gave you knowledge, about you and about him. Next time you will have better insight – but you wouldn’t have had that insight without this experience.
Same as the hell of living with a P, but not quite as horrific and at least it didn’t last 25 years!
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Monday, 21 September 2009 @ 10:53am
justabouthealed says:
Stargazer…after being hurt so many times, and with your history, I would swear off sex for awhile. I know if I were dating again, I would have a ridiculous rule like no sex for at least the first 6 months of dating someone. I am SO committed to being friends with a guy first. And going slowly. And I would tell any man, sorry, that’s just how it is with me. I know my husband would have waited. Although we got married soon after our first date, we actually had been in a math educ class together for 4 months and had to play math games (with two other people) for 3 hours a week. Which was sort of like dating without sex. We talked and joked lots.
Anyway, I would try to get some rules really clear in my head now, while you are hurting, so that you can make those rules with the reminder of the pain you want to avoid in the future. Then, in the heat of the moment, you just have to remember your rules AND STICK TO THEM. For the sake of avoiding the pain you are in now. You don’t need that.
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Monday, 21 September 2009 @ 10:54am
justabouthealed says:
Stargazer….you say that mostly the young ones are getting your attention. That sounds like wanting validation. We all do. But we need to give it to ourselves.
I would also try making a list of what you REALLY want in man. Dr. Phil’s site has a checklist about that, it can help you think through what is REALLY important to you. Then don’t settle for less, even in a date. Why waste the time? The young guys are a waste of time if you are looking for a long term relationship with a real future, as you have said previously.
Attraction is just attraction. You can mentally note it and then not act on it. Protect yourself like you would a little sister who you love. “Yeah, honey, he’s cute…but not what we are looking for.”
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Monday, 21 September 2009 @ 11:03am
Stargazer says:
Great username, Skylar. I like what it means. We certainly do protect ourselves through knowledge.
Thanks to both of you for giving me so much to think about. You guys are the greatest. :hugs:
JAH, I feel I walk a fine line with self-protection. At nearly 49 (and celibate often for years at a time), it is unlikely for me that I will ever settle down with anyone, so I feel my free-spirit status should come with some perks. The affair with the boy was one of those perks. I thought about protecting my heart. I could have told him not to fly out here. Then I thought, why? What am I waiting for, you know?
After reading both your responses and giving this some thought, I feel a little better about the whole thing. I could have protected my heart by avoiding sex with him. But I think the outcome would have been the same anyway. I don’t know that I would have done it any differently. That’s what makes it so bittersweet. HOWEVER, if I ever meet someone I feel relationship potential with, I will definitely make him wait!
Attraction is a funny thing, and it’s not just about age for me. I have dated and been attracted to men of all ages. It just seems that lately, the ones I have the most in common with are younger. It may have something to do with my snake obsession. (I think most of you know I keep boa constrictors and belong to a reptile community). Most people in my community are younger. The boy and I had been friends for 8 months before we ever became romantic. Our friendship has spanned 2-1/2 years now. We also have a ton of things in common that I don’t have in common with anyone else. We get along well, and I think there is more of a connection besides just lust. I doubt he would have spent a fortune and flown out from SF just to get laid. So I don’t think he was using me.
It’s just one of those things……we have a 22 year age difference. It just could never be.
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Monday, 21 September 2009 @ 12:15pm
Stayingsane says:
justabouthealed
I cried at the response you gave to me, and thank you so much. I have no one to talk this through with..no one can understand but you have said words that prove you really do understand…its such a relief i am crying!
thank you thank you thank you…I have not had a human repsonse till now and I am just melting with what you said….enough is enough…money is only money…..thank you you are the only person who validated the crazy email…it has to be no contact now…I feel a tremendous “pull” from his end…I do not respond…he can take himself to court..hah!
I couldnt be bothered wasting another minute of my precious life on him…he needs me to catch him out and take him down but I have too much self respect to waste my time on him.
I feel a huge love for him…its forgiving and releasing….its on a soul level….but on a personality level I cannot and will not have anything more to do with him….GAME OVER! pain is huge right now…but I am determined to get CLEAR OF HIM NOW…no contact…no contact…no contact
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Monday, 21 September 2009 @ 1:38pm
Beverly says:
Hi Oxy et al. Its quite a while since I posted here. Things are really good with me. Since the two years have passed since the ex disappeared on the horizon, I am no longer plagued by obsessive thoughts or indeed any thoughts of him at all. I might think of him if I hear a particular tune, but thats it. I even have a new male friend. I say friend because I have decided to keep him as a companion and he is very safe, he is kind and very reliable and transparent about himself and his business. This is the best quality man I have known and we go out and enjoy days out, and I rarely have to protect my boundaries, because he doesnt demand anything and he is very respectful. So really I feel quite healed now. I hope you are all well and you Oxy how are you?
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Tuesday, 22 September 2009 @ 3:39am
OxDrover says:
B*E*V*E*R*L*Y!!!!!!!!!!!
OOOOOOOH am I glad to SEE YOU! I’ve missed your wisdom and sweet spirit on LF sooooooo MUCH!!!!
When you were describing your new “friend” I thought you had bought a DOG!!!!! and were making aJOKE!! ROTFLMAO
I am so glad you are doing well. I am glad that things are wonderful for you and that life is GOOD!
I am so glad you popped in and I think it is wonderful for the newer posters here to KNOW THAT THERE IS LIGHT AND JOY AT THE END OF THIS LONG TUNNEL!!!
There are LF SUCCESS stories!!!!!
I’m still around here because I get so much energy to STAY on that healing road so I do not ever again FALL OFF into the the darkness!
I’m branching out now, though, and am working with our local DV shelter, doing education for the Court Advocates for foster kids, and am going to a meeting next thursday with some others who want to put in a homeless shelter in our area.
I used to wish there were more hours in the day to do things, but now I just wish I had enough energy to fill up all the hours that there are in a day, so blogging on LF at least gives me a REST between more physically taxing things. LOL
Please do stay around Bevie and share some of your newfound happiness and your wonderful wisdom!!!! I sure miss you! Janie has been back some and I’m sure glad to see her. Aloha is in a masters program to become a therapist! She’s busy but checks back in from time to time.
You are always in my prayers and my thoughts!!!!! Love and big hugs, Oxy
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Tuesday, 22 September 2009 @ 8:19am
Beverly says:
Hi Oxy, I am so so pleased to be able to talk with you again. Of course I will stay around. I never forget the support I received from the LF site, from you all and from Donna and Steve to enable me to heal, get better. I am really good, well healed and testimony that things CAN AND DO GET BETTER, even the obsessive thinking thins out after a while. Ha. I had to laugh about your comments about the dog, but even some dogs can be nasty Oxy. This man has so many good qualities, but although I dont feel that chemistry, I am so pleased to have someone in my life (albeit at a safe distance) that I can genuinely communicate with, who is kind and genuine, is giving and honest – even in a dog those would be good qualities Oxy. I am so pleased to see Oxy that you are the matriach of the site, and giving that solid strength that I know you have. Yes Oxy, there IS light at the end of the tunnel and I will check in with you again soon. Love and light to you Oxy. Love from Bev. xxxxxoxxxxxx
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Tuesday, 22 September 2009 @ 9:29am
Beverly says:
Dearest Oxy, when I think about the nightmare I shared with you all, well he nearly killed me, the ruination of my health was a big blow, but then whatever way they take you for a ride is a big blow. But I have real faith in healing and I have witnessed it in myself and others and I will never allow myself to go down that path again. I have spoken to many people about my story and at first they look at me abit perplexed and then when I really go deaper into it, they realise the seriousness of it all and they usually say – well, I know several people like that. Anyway, his demon energy is no longer in mine and although I have some other issues to attend to, all in all things are good. I have also spoken to men who have been ripped off, but all we can do is to educate ourselves and others. Love to you all. Bev. xxxxxx
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Tuesday, 22 September 2009 @ 9:43am
Beverly says:
Dear Oxy, One of the reasons I have not posted, was my laptop was playing up since last December and then broke down in March. But I have been able to fix it, because I had to, there wasnt anyone who was going to fix it for me. And Yeay I got it going this week. Just shows what you can do when you have to – they call me Mrs. Fixit!! Bev. xxxxxx
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Tuesday, 22 September 2009 @ 9:52am
OxDrover says:
Dear Bev,
I hope your health continues to do well, please update me on that if you don’t mind.
Seeing your post today was like a ray of sunshine, and sunshine has been very rare around here, we have had rain almost every day in september (VERY unusual) and I MISS the sun and crisp days of September instead of this soggy humidity! LOL
Seeing your post today and knowing you are doing well and that there is joy in your life gives me a big lift! I know that it must do so for others too, because as you and I well know and shared so long ago, there are days we feel like we will never be out of pain, much less HAPPY again!
Looking back to when we first “met” here on LF and all that has gone on since then in our lives and in the lives of our companions from then, some gone on to great and joyful lives, and others who just “disappeared” is bittersweet. I am so happy for those of us who have stayed SQUARELY on that road to healing, even when the road was covered with emotional broken glass and we were crawling on our bellies. But, I am also so PROUD OF AND FOR US that we did stay on the road, even when it was rough, because it DOES get smoother and better as you and I both can testify! (without the psychopaths in our lives!!!) NC FOREVER!!!!
Your wisdom and support was a big part of keeping me on that road when I felt I couldn’t even crawl! Thanks Bev!!!
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Tuesday, 22 September 2009 @ 10:01am
justabouthealed says:
Stayingsane….I just got back on and saw your response. GREAT. Others have done the same for me. Now besides staying sane, you can stay strong! You can do it!
Keep posting! I know many are thinking of you, hoping you continue to make progress, we are all on that journey.
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Tuesday, 22 September 2009 @ 10:39am
justabouthealed says:
Stargazer…well, from my 59, your 49 seems awfully young to be deciding that you won’t be settling down. Life is such an adventure! there are about 40 different paths I’d like to be on! The great thing about being single is you can go on any path you want.
I realize I don’t know everything about your situation, and I’m glad if I brought clarity, even if I brought it by being all wrong! When I was 56, I spent a week undercover in another state with a 27 year old hunk, staying in a different motel each night. Had I been younger…..But I wasn’t, and so despite the incredible connection between us…and I look much younger than I am…. we just never went “there” or even within 50 miles of there. But we laughed, we had danger, we documented bad stuff, and we cracked each other up to relieve the pressure. If I said the wrong thing and revealed his identity, he would have been beaten to a pulp if not worse. We remain really close friends now, I think of him as the son I never had and enjoy and love him that way, as does my husband. I’m so glad I did the right thing, because this way, he continues to enrich my life, and the other path is a distant, distant memory, if that.
Just one last observation, from the book Emotional Rape. ANYTIME there is some kind of inequality in a relationship….age, looks, money, class, etc…..the chances for exploitation rise dramatically. After what I’ve been through, there is NO WAY I would get involved with a man much richer or much younger or older. The likely hood of exploitation is just too much for me to risk, ever again.
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Tuesday, 22 September 2009 @ 10:52am
justabouthealed says:
Actually, no one could beat him to a pulp. Scratch that. LOL!
Hectates, all my single friends even the married, all the married envy the single!
There are certain personality types that crave a stable and mature relationship with someone more than others. I am one. But I’ve tried very hard to prepare myself for the sudden loss of my husband, because one rarely knows.
I have a couple of girlfriends that I talk to almost every night. They are usually brief calls….but a connection like that will be an anchor if anything happens.
The older we get, I think the more we women realize what we can do for each other. We can send each other flowers, buy each other jewelry, send sentimental cards….we can really fill for each other that need for a strong emotional connection and someone who cares about what is happening daily.
It is not the same as an intimate relationship with a man, but it is also something worth pursuing. Maybe you already have that. I didn’t before the P. Now I do. Ironically, partly because of him. I was such a wreck I had to reach out!
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Tuesday, 22 September 2009 @ 10:59am
N_Transformation says:
This is the first time I haven’t felt a lone in my experience with a sociopath. For so long I thought that it was such a unique situation that no one could offer me advice or comfort, but now I realize that there is are a lot of people who understand. I think this realization will greatly help out on the path to being truly healed.
I keep stumbling upon thoughts and descriptions that ring so true to my own that it gives me chills. I have pushed the scars I carry from him so far to the back of my consciousness, but they manifest in my life in various ways.
Since the end of that relationship I have been on a quest to reinvent myself and embrace my true identity. I have healed a lot, and am grateful for the experience because it has shown me so much. But I’m still struggling.
I haven’t been able to have an intimate relationship since leaving him. Recently I’ve realized that I have simply replaced romance with brief sexual encounters. Now I realize that instead of filling the empty space with sex I need to heal myself. I want to fall in love again but I still don’t quite feel that I’m worthy.
I realize that what attracted the sociopath into my world was this feeling of unworthiness. I still have moments of self-doubt and a lack of self-confidence. Does anyone have any advice or relate to these emotions?
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Tuesday, 22 September 2009 @ 9:01pm
Stargazer says:
JAH,
As the days wear on, I am starting to feel more hurt and confused by this affair with the boy. I don’t necessarily feel raped as much as used and discarded. I once felt this way with an older man I had an affair with who was a former teacher/mentor of mine. This is not necessarily a pattern, but it’s happened to me a few times, so obviously I haven’t gotten the lesson.
The thing that unstuck me a month ago was to finally talk to the boy about our affair 2 years ago and tell him I was hurt. He apologized. I could have left it at that. But he insisted on seeing me again and “making amends” to me in person. We both knew what that meant. I don’t think the recent rekindling of the affair itself was hurtful–it was great. It’s just the way he pulled away afterward that makes me feel like it was meaningless. Same thing that happened 2 years ago that hurt so much. He apologized for his behaviors 2 years ago. But I don’t think he realizes he hurt me again. He is so young and isn’t this what 27 year olds do? Should I hold him accountable? After all, he never lied to me or made any promises to me.
So here I am in the same situation I was in 2 years ago with him. Do I say something to him? What good would that do? It may give me closure. Or he may say something to hurt me even more. Or it may rekindle something that is dangerous for me. I’m not sure where to go from here. I really feel stupid and embarrassed. I could really use advice on this one. I really feel way too vulnerable continuing to go to him with my feelings while he has not so much as sent me an email since his return. But if it helps me to heal, I’ll bite the bullet and do it. Opinions?
He is actively working the 12 steps and told me he is very concerned with people he hurts. I wonder if he would want to know how I feel right now. It was such a relief to talk to him last time. It may be a relief to talk to him again. But…..
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Tuesday, 22 September 2009 @ 9:29pm
Stargazer says:
Okay, I guess I need to vent here….you know there are SO many people in my life I just never really had closure with, including my parents, who could never really hear me or how much they hurt me. This is one of the reasons I keep things to myself so much. I have had so many experiences with people judging my feelings or not caring. I get so tired of always keeping things to myself. I now have this opportunity to work through some of my abandonment feelings. But once again, I’ve picked a guy who is not really available to me. Although if I called him, he may listen and be sympathetic. I wish there were any other way to get through these issues than having to constantly be vulnerable with men who are not available. It is the hardest thing to do. I feel like somehow, this hard path–walking through a ring of rejection–is the path I’m supposed to walk. Why can’t it be easier? (I’m crying right now). Thanks for letting me vent.
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Tuesday, 22 September 2009 @ 9:34pm
N_Transformation says:
Sometimes you never really get closure.. I think sometimes you just have to heal yourself and move on because it is rare that a person is really going to give you the closure that you need, especially not a person who is messed up themselves. Maybe try to speak with a counselor or someone with an outside perspective that can be an impartial voice. It sounds like you just need someone to talk to. Counselors can help so much.
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Tuesday, 22 September 2009 @ 9:40pm
OxDrover says:
Dear Star,
I wanted “closure” too, but I have found that NO ONE except OURSELVES can really give us CLOSURE. I think depending on someone else validating us or giving us closure is the wrong choice to make, I think we can NEVER let our peace, our joy, ourselves depend 100% on anyone else, but we must validate ourselves. It is difficult, it is a rocky road, but when I started validating myself, loving myself, trusting myself, ,what others felt didn’t matter so much to me any more.
We here at LF can give you some “closure” by saying that we understand some of what you are going through, but the ULTIMATE closure and happiness, depends on YOU—not some man, not us, not your mom, not you neighbor, but YOU!
You can do it Star! I know you can!!! (hugs)))
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Tuesday, 22 September 2009 @ 10:14pm
shabbychic says:
N_Transformation, I thing the feelings of unworthiness is what made me not have any boundaries, wave a red flag in front of my face… no problem! That, and the fact that I am so compassionate, want to fix everyone, etc… well, I may as well have been walking around with a bullseye on my forehead. I fall into every category… I began to see everything as a challenge I could handle,
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Tuesday, 22 September 2009 @ 10:36pm
shabbychic says:
oops, the laptop is sliding off my lap! So, anyway, most of the healing process has been learning about myself, not just them. I don’t feel unworthy anymore, I’m not going to accept crumbs/crap anymore. Hope you keep posting!!
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Tuesday, 22 September 2009 @ 10:39pm
skylar says:
Stargazer,
I’m trying not to see him as a psychopath who took advantage of your vulnerability because i don’t know how you portrayed yourself to him. Maybe you came across so casual that he felt you didn’t have boundaries.
It sounds like you take sex very seriously in your mind, but not in your behavior. You make a connection with the person you are intimate with, and then you expect them to be the same. I don’t want to paint all men with the same brush (or all women either) but many men are not that way. It sounds like you wanted some “psychic cuddling” from this guy. you know, some phone calls or emails while you both reveled in the beauty of what you experienced together. But he is not wired that way. His romance with you was not recorded in the same part of the brain where you recorded yours. it was filed under “fun”.
Try not to let this bother you. He is only being himself. Accept him as he is. But expect that he will try to contact you every once in a while for a repeat – maybe once or twice a year. Be ready to know what you want.
I’m probably very much like you. I could have casual sex way back when I was young, but I’m not sure if I can now. My friend kissed my cheek yesterday and I found my mouth smiling at the thought today – before I even realized it. It freaked me out because I don’t think I’ve smiled unconsciously for over 10 years. In fact one of my biggest worries is that my face will get a permanent frown and then no one will love me – I’m not kidding.
Anyway, I digress. I mean to say that I’m worried that if I have sex with someone who makes me smile and then I don’t make them smile (reflexively) at the thought of me, it will break my heart. That’s why I was thinking it might be better to have sex with someone I barely like… I don’t know, just a way to not get hurt I guess.
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Tuesday, 22 September 2009 @ 10:52pm
skylar says:
shabbychic,
you described me when you describe yourself.
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Tuesday, 22 September 2009 @ 10:54pm
shabbychic says:
Stargazer, it seems like you are second guessing yourself because you are missing him. I thought at first you sounded very happy you spent the weekend with him and he acknowledged hurting you in the past, and that he apologized. I don’t know if you should call him, is he capable of giving you closure or will you just stay stuck in the situation? I am reallly suprised to read that he has not emailed you or called you since you were together. Don’t feel used and discarded! Don’t fall down the rabbit hole! Maybe the whole thing has just triggered some memories / emotions of past events. You certainly shouldn’t feel stupid and embarrassed!!! With the advice you have shared with us here at LF… you are obviously a very smart, sensitive woman. Don’t tell youself it was meaningless to him, you are telling yourself you are unworthy… and aren’t we learning to love ourselves here???
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Tuesday, 22 September 2009 @ 11:01pm
kim frederick says:
Stargazer, One of the reasons I haven’t dated in two years is because I don’t want to experience what you are going through. I become attached in relationships very quickly, and the men I’m involved with sence this and generally run the other way. I tend to pusue them, or I have to fight myself really hard not to. I start to feel a little crazy, and it hurts.
I would advise against contacting him, but that’s just my 2 cents. You have to make your own decisions.
We aren’t always aware of what motivates us. Sometimes our unconscience is at the wheel. I would ask myself why I was always attracted to the unavailable, and work on the issues behind that.
I’m sorry you feel so sad. You have a lot of wise and caring people here at LF to talk to. Be gentle with yourself.
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Tuesday, 22 September 2009 @ 11:23pm
shabbychic says:
skylar, i believe i learned all that about myself here on LF! Maybe i could get a teenie bullseye tattooed on my forehead, small… like how they can print the entire Lord’s Prayer on a pinhead… just to remind myself never to go to that place again! Sometimes I feel like a little mouse… that a mountain lion is waiting to pounce on, oh, i was feeling like that last week when i talked to the assclown, he hasn’t called back like he said he would, i tried the boring and bland, so far, so good! I’m not answering any more blocked numbers!!!!!!
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Tuesday, 22 September 2009 @ 11:26pm
shabbychic says:
kim, you just described me!!
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Tuesday, 22 September 2009 @ 11:30pm
skylar says:
shabbychic,
I am amazed at how well the boring/bland works! I’ve heard good feedback on it.
The amazing part is the way I found out about it. I was completely dazed and confused after running from my P because I didn’t know what a P WAS. I went to a sushi bar and a complete stranger started to talk to me. So, I just opened up and told him my situation. He said, “oh, that’s a malignant narcissist.” From there he started to tell me about a woman who had stalked him. They were both lawyers and she was well respected in her field but she went nuts after a few months and he had to get rid of her. He realized that any emotional reaction just triggered more stalking. So he went into boring mode and she evaporated. I will have to call him one day and ask him if he thought of this himself or if he learned it somewhere. All I can say is if he thought of it himself, he is a genious. I was kind of interested in him, but I think he is afraid of contacting me after how I described my P.
He also told me that his dad is a N and his mom N-lite. his siblings are all N but he does see them. He says he makes an effort to be as boring in life as possible. I told him I found boring, VERY EXCITING. LOL.
I don’t blame him.
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Tuesday, 22 September 2009 @ 11:41pm
persephone7 says:
Dear Stargazer:
I feel like we are very much alike, though you’re a bit younger – my feelings about sex and relationships have been similar to yours and I’ve struggled so much with those hurt
feelings that you’ve expressed, especially after being intimate with someone. But we’re both old enough to know that men are different in their approach to sex, and also the
men you’ve (I’ve) chosen recently have been unavailable really, even to themselves. Your friend, whatever age – and he is young – is doing the 12-steps so he’s on the right
track it seems, but he’s definitely searching for answers for himself. And any man, if he senses you are needy or a sensitive person, definitely seems to take that ‘down time’ after being with you intimately, it almost seems a given if they are trying to figure out their own true feelings , or if they’re a total jerk, they just aren’t that concerned – which doesn’t sound like the young guy here from what you’ve said.
I still don’t really know the right approach – we women have certain expectations of what a ‘normal’, caring guy would do. But then because we’re not totally confident, fulfilled
women in our own right – we end up with men who are confused about who they are (and then who we are) as well! It makes for colliding bodies and hearts and even if we’re
intelligent, we have to admit we need a manual to figure out our next emotion and our next move with each other.
I’ve had someone younger interested in me at work. Nice guy but he just broke up with girlfriend of two years ago and has a drinking problem. The attraction is there and I’ve
had some nice conversations with him but I told him I had to resolve this present relationship that is very important to me. And on my recent trip away and even while I’ve been
sick, I realize more and more – there are definitely red flags where he’s concerned for number of reasons. And bottom line, once I resolve this heavy duty relationship I’ve been
in, it would be way better for me to just sit relationships out for awhile – sit on the love sidelines and nurse my wounds and have fun with my girlfriends, even non-sexual boyfriends.
Because I’ve had casual sex, it can be nice to have a fling but I think you’re like me (and alot of other women…) You want a real spiritual, intellectual connection as well, you
BOND with that person you give yourself to sexually and of course, you feel major disappointment when it isn’t surrounding you afterward in an ongoing, considerate , let’s be
in this together kind of relationship. But I think one reason we’re all here is because we are the walking (and writing) wounded- right now anyway. And it would be good to give
ourselves a break – read some classics, go bowling, volunteer to pick up trash for the Forest Service (my friend just called, said she did that today). We’ll have our day again
in the sun again with a guy, I just know right now I need to get real about myself and why I’ve been this vulnerable and build up some emotional muscle before I go out on the
playing field again.
Personally I think, don’t call him – I think he’ll eventually call you. If not, you sound like such a great person, just know you enjoyed his company and it’s not about you – you’ll
be fine in the long run if you hold your head high and know how wonderful you are! You’ve already touched many of us with your comments here, it’s good to know you!
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Tuesday, 22 September 2009 @ 11:42pm
Stargazer says:
I cannot thank you all enough for your comments. They have helped me so much and brought tears to my eyes. Forgive me for not mentioning everyone’s name. After taking a nice long bath and thinking and then coming back and reading your comments, I have decided to do absolutely nothing about this guy. I will just continue to improve myself and my life so that I may some day attract a more available man. And if not, at least I will just be happier. I do think my emotionality scared him. Oh well. I am who I am. It’s not like I am constantly going from one guy to the next. I am celibate for long periods of time. It is rare that I even get attracted to anyone. I will not dole myself out a life sentence of celibacy because of my unresolved issues. I hate it when I start to get close to someone and then see my own neediness reflected back to me. But it is what it is. Somehow those needs just do not come out until I am close to someone. It becomes a catch 22. I still think there are men out there who can be patient and compassionate with someone going through that. But probably not the type I am attracted to.
After my last fling with him, I didn’t say anything to him for 2 years. He emailed me a few times (mostly in between relationships, but not always) and I was polite, though distant, from him. Two years seemed to be the magic amount of time before I felt he would be receptive to my feelings. And now it is time to pull away again. Perhaps if he ever comes around, we will both benefit by my telling him how he was a different person after sex, and how much I was affected by that. Or maybe I won’t feel the need. Whoever said I should just let him be who he is is completely right. This is what I set out to do, and my feelings got in the way. So I will get back on that course.
Thanks so much for helping and not judging me. I really need the support right now.
Hugs
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Tuesday, 22 September 2009 @ 11:59pm
Stargazer says:
I did force myself to go out on 2 dates last weekend with men my age. They were okay, but I was not really very interested in them. I went on a hike with one of them, and it was fun though. We may go hiking again this weekend. I keep hoping these guys I date can just become friends. Most guys seem to want to get physical so quickly, and it takes me such a long time to develop those kinds of feelings for someone. So we’re never on the same page. I keep trying and moving forward with men. I have no idea what I’m doing, but I am forcing myself to, if for no other reason than to fine tune my communication skills with them.
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Wednesday, 23 September 2009 @ 12:03am
Stargazer says:
And yeah, he’s not a psychopath, so there’s a step in the right direction. lol
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Wednesday, 23 September 2009 @ 12:06am
shabbychic says:
Star, well that’s an interesting comment… “But probably not the type I am attracted to.” I ‘ve been wondering why why why nobody has ever loved me unconditionally, just loved me for me, and maybe thats why.
skylar, yes, your boring and bland theory is interesting. I personally believe that since I was so dumb and needy before… and he doesn’t know I’ve changed because I never said anything… well. he doesn’t understand why I’m not calling HIM, does that make sense? I am rejecting him by not calling him, and I don’t think he knows what to make out of it, I was so polite (and boring) when he called, didn’t let on that I wanted to scream at him and ask him to pay me back the money he owes me, if I gave an inch, he’d try to take a mile. In fact when I heard his voice… I said “who is this?” HA HA!!!!!
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Wednesday, 23 September 2009 @ 12:27am
kim frederick says:
Shabbychic, Yes it makes sense. Finally after years of fighting with him, years of frustration, tears imploring him, I finally gave up and went NC. It was the only thing I did in seven years that empowered me. It was the only thing I ever “said” that he really GOT. It’s sooo f–ked up, but it’s the only solution.
Sky, I love your new attitude. I am always attracted to the same type. Ussually they seem very independant, strong emotionally and a little macho.
At any rate they either turn out to be P’s preying on my vulnerability, or commitment phobes who run like hell.
I think its great that you’re just having fun with some of the older guys. Try to enjoy yourself and keep it light.
As Oxy would say, (((HUGS)))
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Wednesday, 23 September 2009 @ 6:45am
N_Transformation says:
All of you have described me in some way or another. The whole reason I went on my voyage of emotionless sex was because I was afraid of emotion-filled sex. I don’t have sex with men I like generally. In fact, I’m petrified of anyone who seems remotely interested in me. At the heart of the issue I’m not confident enough with myself so it’s hard for me to believe they could be interested, and if they really are then they just don’t know me well enough yet. Another theme is that I search every possible reason why they would like me; what they are trying to GAIN from me. I don’t believe that I will ever end up with a sociopath again, but subconsciously I’m still wary of people, particularly men.
Kim, you said something that I related to my life immensely: “I tend to pursue them, or I have to fight myself really hard not to. I start to feel a little crazy, and it hurts.” That is exactly what I do sometimes. Usually it happens when I’m at a party or have been drinking. I become pretty aggressive and almost throw myself at them, and then of course they back away from me because that’s just scary. Most men are terrified of clingy women. And just like how none of us want to end up with another guy who has such unresolved issues, they don’t want to date someone with problems themselves. My best advice (to myself and to all of us) is to wait for the person that feels right. I’m restraining myself now and trying to be patient, trying to take things slow and see where they go. I believe that when we’re healed ourselves and when we are living life the way our souls yearn to, that’s when love comes a long. When a guy wants to be with you, you know it; you don’t have to question it. We all deserve happy and healthy relationships, but must be happy and healthy ourselves first in order to attract them. I feel like many of us are trying to be so proactive and take our lives into control because we’ve been manipulated and controlled before. That’s great, but when it comes to love there are two people involved, and it isn’t up to us to find Mr. Right and if we do it isn’t up to just us to get into a relationship with him, make the relationship work, and so forth. There is a balance between controlling your life and realizing that you can have a partner. We need someone who is strong and gentle, someone that is willing to take things slow and not run away, and that person seems like they would be more of the type that would approach us not the reverse way around.
The universe balances everything, and I firmly believe that when you invest your heart and soul into someone and end up getting destroyed because they are so internally malignant, the universe will bring you peace and love in later years to balance out this pain. But, once again, only if you find that loving light within yourself first.
My motto these days has been to take things easy, to just chill out a bit. I get crushes still sometimes, but I don’t do much about them anymore. I’d rather be as healed as possible before I meet someone worthy of me instead of carrying over all of these scars into a relationship with someone who really doesn’t deserve it.
That ran long, but I think I was speaking to myself mostly. I can’t express enough how much it helps me to hear your words. I never thought there would be a support group out there for me that matched so completely. We’re all beautiful people that were targeted for our large hearts, and we may have been broken but we’re also strong. I hope you all manifest love and peace into your lives and try to be patient.
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Wednesday, 23 September 2009 @ 8:38am
witsend says:
Stargazer,
I haven’t dated in a VERY long time. After my husband died I was so “wounded” for so long. My first romantic involvement a few years after his death, was so painful, I backed off from dating. So I am certainly not an expert…. I am ALONE, if that gives you any clue!
However so many things you have said remind me of myself when it comes to how I thought about men and how I related to them….
But it was during my long “phase” of having no desire to put myself out there again, and not dating that I really did figure out what my “issues” with men really were/are.
First of all my “heart” and my “head” were in direct conflict with each other.
Like you I was attracted to younger men. At the time I looked younger than my years and for whatever reason younger men were also attracted to me.
But what I was “attracted” to didn’t always go hand in hand with what I really wanted in a relationship.
What I “wanted” (in my head) was a stable, loyal, kind, funny, confident, trustworthy & sensitive kind of guy who was comfortable in his own skin……
Yet what I was “attracted” to was rugged good looks, a little bit of a bad boy, SLIGHTLY cocky, charming, younger guy.
So I was really setting myself up. The men I was attracted to couldn’t give me what I really wanted.
I was never a “party girl” and can be quite reserved around men until I get to know them. But I also have a nurturing nature and maybe that is what attracted younger men? I’m not sure.
Also for me, I kept repeating a “pattern”…Though unaware of this at the time. I grew up with an alcoholic father and although I don’t drink hardly at all, I tended to attract what I didn’t want. Men that had “issues” with alcohol. Even if it wasn’t apparent to begin with early in the relationship, (maybe they were in recovery) it would become a problem later on.
Dating is HARD, especially when we have not dated for a while.
As we get a little older and wiser it doesn’t mean that it gets any easier. The only advantage to having more “life experience” behind us is to be able to reflect back on those experiences.
Take an “honest” look. If this young man has given you reason to think he is “casual sex” kind of guy, then that is probably exactly what kind of guy he is. This does NOT REFLECT in any way on you……It’s NOT you. Its him.
Trust your instincts. If it feels hurtful to you, then it isn’t something good for you. Chemestry or not, it isn’t worth it.
Chances are that you very well might develop a good friendship with one of the men you are dating casually right now. And possibly that friendship might turn into something more down the road?
Even if it doesn’t, a good “man friend” is a wonderful thing to have….
Always trust your instinct. Maybe that is the best “tool” a woman has when dating….I think we listen to our hearts instead.
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Wednesday, 23 September 2009 @ 8:40am
OxDrover says:
Guys,
For me, the dating thing after my husband was killed, was “what can I do to make this man like me?” NOW on the one guy I dated (3 times before he left the area) was “WILL I LIKE HIM?” The whole idea was turned 180 degrees around from ‘what can I do to make him want/like me?” to assessing if I LIKED him!
For me, I think that tells me that I am probably ’safe” to date because I am no longer NEEDY, I am WHOLE and INDEPENDENT, and watching out for myself.
I am no longer feeling a NEED for some other person to make me WHOLE and “complete” me—I am whole just like I am, and the guy who deserves me is a very special guy, and I am not looking for “Mr. Perfect” but he sure needs to be “Mr. Nice Guy”
This guy seemed genuinely nice..but he has homes in 3 places so is back in his primary residence for now. Will he call me when he gets back up here? Maybe, maybe not, but either way is fine with me. I’m not sitting here wishing he would call, or needing him to call.
For the first time in my life I am totally at PEACE with being “alone” and not having a relationship in my life with a man. I do have male friends, and that is great too, but the main point to me is that I no longer feel I NEED anyone, but if someone came along that I liked and became good friends with, it might develop into something else and I thinnk I could be realistic about the character of the man rather than trying to “see him” as something he isn’t.
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Wednesday, 23 September 2009 @ 9:03am
OxDrover says:
ps: “Chemistry” is waaaaaay over rated as a way to pick a mate. If the person is good to you, you’d be suprised how much chemistry can then develop SLOWLY, but “chemistry at first sight,” in my opinion, is a RED FLAG!
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Wednesday, 23 September 2009 @ 9:05am
skylar says:
Oxy,
the only chemistry I had with my P when i first met him was fear! My body reacted with horror, but when he was able to fix my car, I over rode that fear and felt gratitude. I offered to make him dinner, because he seemed poor and I didn’t want him spending more money on me. Then, he was so respectful, that I offered him a kiss as he was leaving.
On the next night, it was late so I said he could spend the night. I went into my room and put on what I always slept in: a red, neck to toe, zip up pyjamas with feet, just like children wear. Meanwhile he was standing there naked. I told him to crawl in bed but he offered to leave. I asked “why?” so he said, “ok, I’ll stay til you fall asleep.” the next morning he was gone
the next date, he said he wouldn’t spend the night unless I took off the red suit. I acquiesed. Of course now, without my zipup full body pyjamas, I had no defenses and we had sex. It’s not that I never had sex with anyone, I dated several guys and had sex with most of them. I just had no chemistry with him, I felt sorry for him. It was after sex that I fell in love. He was very eager to please and made sure that I was satisfied way beyond any man ever had. Doesn’t he seem like the perfect man?
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Wednesday, 23 September 2009 @ 9:34am
Rosa says:
Physical chemistry…..cannot live without it.
That’s why I stayed for almost 10 years.
He was able to smooth over A LOT of bad behavior with “chemistry”.
And because the physical chemistry was so great, I guess I assumed we were on the same page emotionally/morally, as well.
DAMN IT!!
On a sidebar note, ladies: It is a jungle out there in the dating arena.
Remember the old saying, “Boys will be boys.” And they definitely will.
Men will say and do ANYTHING for sex. Even the nice ones.
There are good men out there, but they are very hard to find.
Another quote that I learned very young, and turned out to be true is, “If he does it WITH you, he will do it TO you.”
Now, get out there, and get your man!! (Remember to wear your LoveFraud Shield)
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Wednesday, 23 September 2009 @ 10:38am
Rosa says:
The above post is for those who are feeling ready to date again, of course.
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Wednesday, 23 September 2009 @ 10:55am
OxDrover says:
Skylar,
‘
There was more RED FLAGS that night than your RED JAMMIES!!!
Statistics show that “arranged marriages” are more ultimately satisfying than the way we do it in our culture. There is a 50% first marriage divorce rate here, plus how many of the 50% tht actually stay together are actually HAPPY? There is a 75% divorce rate in 2nd marriages. How many people do you know who have been married 3-4-5 times?
It seems that whatever it is that is making Americans get married isn’t something that is working even 50% of the time.
Also the statistics show that people who live together before marriage are more likely to get divorced after marriage than those that did not live together.
Also, ladies, humans are PROGRAMMED CHEMICALLY to BOND to those they are having sex with and I think that is more so in women than in men. We bond to who we are sleeping with. Men are somewhat bonded to who they sleep with but NOT SO MUCH AS WOMEN. I think that is just the NATURE OF THE MAN, however…that said, I think the statistics are something like 60% (don’t hold me to that exact number) of men who cheat on their spouses at least once, and about 40% for women. Tht doesn’t speak very highly of our morals or our committements to “wedding vows” does it.
In the diary of a midwife circia 1745-1819, she kept statistics on the babies born that she delivered and something like 40% of the first babies at that time were conceived BEFORE marriage, so this is NOT something new—we can’t even think that people in the “olden days” were any more moral or upright than we are even though there were less divorces. PEOPLE ARE PEOPLE and always have been! LOL
And at that time they also had “fatal” STDs because there was no cure for them and those STDs were awful. However, due to the times, there actually may have been MANY LESS DIFFERENT PARTNERS just because of the culture and the BAD conosequences (especially for a woman) to get caught cheating.
I don’t guess there is anyone in the world who likes sex any better than I do, however, due to a lot of considerations, I am a “retro-fitted” virgin at this time in my life and will remain so unless I believe STRONGLY that my partner is CLEAN of STDS and that he is absolutely NOT engaging in sex with any other partner.
That means that there is an STD check FIRST—a complete one that I SEE the results of, —that is number ONE and there must be a COMMITTED relationship that I am pretty doggoone sure is just HIM AND ME, and not others.
Condoms may HELP cut down the spread of STDS of several kinds, but there are MANY KINDS OF STD that a condom does not even SLOW DOWN. Keep in mind that in spite of what our visiting TRAWLER stated, the statistics of preventing pregnancy with condoms is only about 90% and a woman is only fertile 2-3 days a month, so there is definitely a frequent EXCHANGE OF BODY FLUIDS even WITH a condom.
My HEALTH and wellbeing is FIRST AND FOREMOST my concern. Sex is fun, it is supposed to be! But the consequences of NOT being careful are just too GRIM to take chances in my book! I know not everyone agrees with me on this score, and I am NOT judging anyone else’s choice, but just pointing out the LOGIC behind my own choices.
The rate of HIV transmission in the “baby boomer” generation is growing as more and more of us have sex with multiple partners and we are not generally as well educated about the risks as the younger generation and the Good Lord knows they are NOT all practicing “safer sex”—-just because we older folks are not “high risk” doesn’t mean we can’t get it.
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Wednesday, 23 September 2009 @ 12:03pm
skylar says:
Well, he was just on the phone with me but he doesn’t want to meet with me just yet. At first he said that he wanted to meet me at his lawyers office to sign papers. Then when I said that I would but wanted to talk first, he said he just isn’t ready to see me.
so full of sh*t.
I have heard from the grapevine that he was panning for gold in the mountains with some other people. He says he is ready to go live in the mountains and not have any more contact with people. He said he was in another state, but I heard that he was up in Oroville, WA.
He is going into the mountain man mode of the Unibomber, I can tell.
It’s always been a part of him, but the narcissistic injury of it all has hit the fan.
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Wednesday, 23 September 2009 @ 1:35pm
N_Transformation says:
I have definitely listened to the advice about avoiding anyone you have chemistry with, or at least that passionate “love at first sight” kind of chemistry. I have been sexually active with a guy on and off since around May, and I know that he’s had somewhat of a crush on me for sometime. My problem is that I sleep with people too quickly, though sometimes I don’t have sex with him I just lay with him. I have made it point, however, when I’m around people I tend to start a self-defensive rant about how I love being single and having casual sex and that I’m not looking for anything serious at all. I guess it’s because I’m scared or feel incapable of sustaining any sort of “involvement” to one single person on an intimate level so I make sure there’s no chance of that occurring. I’ve talked repeatedly this way around him at first to let him know to not expect anything serious. But then we ended up having sex, and it took me a while but now I like him. He is a wonderful person and very genuine, and also not very “exciting” in a good way. He’s basic, but compassionate and accepting. All of these characteristics have become so appealing to me that now I do want something a bit more, not necessarily serious because it will take me a really long time to get to that point with someone again, but just not simply casual sex. I’m scared though that he doesn’t want that, and the reason we keep hooking up is because he feels that I’m safe, since I’m totally emotionally attached from sex (every guy’s fantasy!). How do I find out? I’m not so sure I’m ready, or should, have a conversation with him about it yet because he could just be the physical manifestation of my yearning for a more stable situation and to be in love, since it has been so long. Any advice?
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Wednesday, 23 September 2009 @ 2:00pm
skylar says:
NT,
whoops, you bonded!
just like superglue on your finger. yes, we can rationalize it all day long, but the oxytocin did the trick and now you are starting to feel for him. You need to find out how he feels about you. No conversation because, he may lie, or he may not know how he feels about you. Or else, he may not WANT to know how he feels about you.
Before you use your “inner P” to trick him into taking you seriously, you need to really know if you want his guy for keeps. You need to step away from the cookie jar and be objective. this may be the most difficult thing you will do. Perhaps distance yourself for several weeks. with NC?
Or start dating someone else. That’s why it’s important to date several people at once, that way you can know when you’re being clingy or when you really like/admire someone.
I was dating several people when I met the P. I had so many boyfriends that there was no way I was gonna bond with him by accident. But he told me that he wanted to be a one woman man and expected the same from me. BS!
If you conclude that he is a keeper, based on what happened during your self test, then you have to test him. This is when the innerP is needed. Stop hooking up with him and see if he still wants to see you. I don’t want you to lie about your relationship with other guys, thats kinda sick. But maybe you could tell him that you are taking Paxil and it has ruined your sex drive. Then you will know if he likes you for you or for sex.
Wow, I just realized that Paxil is a great excuse for soooo many things! Just blame Paxil when you start acting bland and boring, when you don’t want sex, or when you are testing your lover’s committment to you! Can anyone think of anymore Paxil uses?
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Wednesday, 23 September 2009 @ 2:28pm
kim frederick says:
Skylar, Excellant birth control. Just stay on your back and hold it between your knees. Ha.
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Wednesday, 23 September 2009 @ 3:04pm
N_Transformation says:
Thanks for the advice. It would be the best idea to not see him for a while and check myself out first. Fortunately, he is a kind person and not pressuring at all. We’ve also been friends for a bit so I at least know his friend circle and have seen him in a different light before liking him. Not that I know I can trust him, just that he’s at least not able to hide everything. The hardest part is controlling my own sexual appetite haha. And now that I’ve decided to put the breaks on random casual sexcapades it is going to be even more of a struggle not to have sex with someone who I actually do like. I might not use the Paxill excuse, however, I’d rather tell him the truth. I’d like to see how he’d react to that. He isn’t in the dark on the fact that I have emotional issues. He has seen my ex’s “magic” first hand and as a friend we’ve talked about the ordeal. So… it wouldn’t be a surprise to him I’m sure.
Being in college world makes everything even more bizarre because it’s so easy for relationships to be fake anyway. You’re together during the semester, and then it all gets pushed to the back of your mind during breaks. Plus, it’s the sort of environment where sex is definitely not equated with emotion. People my age are still having fun with their sex drives and developing. I feel like ancient amongst my peers a lot of the time, particularly guys.
I almost feel guilty for admitting this, but it just feels great to have a crush again. I haven’t really had one in a long, long time. I’ve had butterflies lately when I think about him and get nervous before I see him.. I didn’t even recognize the feelings at first. I thought something was wrong with me, and then I described them to a friend and they were like “uh… you have a crush..” haha. I was like OOOH.. I do.
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Wednesday, 23 September 2009 @ 5:25pm
kim frederick says:
Skylar, I just re-read my last post and realized how it might have sounded to you. I didn’t mean you personally, I meant anybody, myself included, except I’m so old I don’t need it, and I’m not getting laid anyway.
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Wednesday, 23 September 2009 @ 5:41pm
Rosa says:
NTransformation:
Be honest with this guy, and tell him how you feel. From what I am reading, there’s a good chance he may feel the same way.
Guys will respect honesty, and a girl who is being real with them. What they do NOT appreciate is being lied to, and the head games that go along with it.
Just tell him what you posted above about how you have developed feelings for him. It sounds like he is a genuine guy who really likes you.
You will never know unless you talk to him.
Good Luck!
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Wednesday, 23 September 2009 @ 6:16pm
kim frederick says:
I agree with Rosa.
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Wednesday, 23 September 2009 @ 6:27pm
skylar says:
kim,
I got the joke. I love your sense of humor. Your wit is the best.
NT and Rosa,
wow! honesty. scary. You guys are way ahead of me with your healing.
You are probably right and when I’m thinking realistically, I have to admit that I would probably be honest too. just because I’m too lazy to lie. But when I’m sitting here at my computer, thinking about P’s, I go into self-protect mode and start fantasizing about all kinds of ways to protect myself from P’s. I start thinking about everything from ‘Paxil excuses’ to ‘revenge for hire, inc.’
I guess I’m still in the “deer in the headlights” mode. It’s only been since May, and today the P called me on the phone. Threatening to hire lawyers.
He is sooooooo sick. I mean like mentally ill, delusional type sick. I can’t believe I never saw it before.
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Wednesday, 23 September 2009 @ 8:24pm
ErinBrockovich says:
Hi guys….
Another date….and no more bouncy hair!
Wow….I can’t believe this one…..
I have spoken with this gentleman several times…..wonderful voice, calm, giving, caring and interested in what I have to say.
Today he called me and asked if I wanted to have lunch….He said whatever time I had, he would make it work.
I have felt very comfortable with my conversations so I obliged and met him at a local restaurant for an hour.
I swear…..each step I take….throughout my day…..I learn more and more about myself! I love that!
He was so kind and gentle, so calm…..all new to me! I loved how he made me feel in our conversation. No games……no one upping, no bragging…..just getting to know one another.
I realised when he kept pressing the point on what I do for fun…..that i do nothing for fun! How sad is that…..that needs to change!
I feel like 3 parts…..the prior EB, the transitional EB and the current EB. Now, how can I explain that to him?!
Don’t want to delve into the mess of my transitional life….but realizing that is WHO I was, and what got me to today……
We know a lot of the same ‘names’ and have done business with a lot of the same persons……far and wide.
Our lives are on different spectrums but the mutual respect was apparant.
It would be the equivilant of me being his secretary and him the CEO……
Kinda trippy to me that I can keep up with the conversation and he kept saying how impressive I was……
We spoke about my ‘former’ life….(not the ex s) but what I did for a living and the experiences I had…..He paid attention to every word I said and brought it back up during different conversations…..obviously he was listening.
WOW…..new for me to have a man to converse with that actually listens to me and is interested.
At one point he said…..you seem to have some spunk in you…..I laughed inside and thought of all of you. I answered….”Oh, you have no idea”……he said…..I think I have a glimpse, but I am sure I have no idea.
He said that I was different…..by the statements I made…..I gave him things to think about.
He said he appreciated how honest and upfront I was in our conversations.
Funny…..this has been what i wrested with in my other dates…..just being me……I can be overpowering and ecentric…and my experiences freak men out……
They just can’t handle a strong woman……..
I think he might just be able to …….and like it!
He had said he treats the woman he is with like a princess…..I asked him what he meant by that….he said….I place them on a pedestal…….
I responded……doesn’t someone have to earn that pedestal….or you just put them right up there…..how does that work for you?
He is a man of wealth…..and it blows me away that someone would just throw someone up on a pedestal……
He said no woman has ever given him that to think about……
It was obvious I was not after his money….just company….good conversation…..and companionship.
Thanks, but I can make my own! He was intriqued by me…..It felt natural….
I respected him for what I knew about him at the time…..(ofcourse I did a recon search on him prior to meeting him and every inch of him checked out)
I loved not being nervous, studdering, fumbling bimbolistic like.
I felt like I was with an ‘equal’……how cool is that?
So date one…..lunch….fun, enjoyable, lot’s of chatter and I look forward to date 2……
Unlike the other ‘dancers’ I have been out with…..I feel confident he will call me as soon as he get’s home tonight….which is another plus…..I HATE THE DANCE….the rules…..
I may be wrong……but so far, I don’t think this man is interested in the dance…..he enjoyed me, and vs versa and I believe he will proceed without the rules, dance or games.
This should be a fun experience for us both!
XXOO
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 23 September 2009 @ 8:27pm
Stargazer says:
See, I hear this advice to NTransformation to tell the guy how she feels, and I ask myself, “Then why can’t I be honest with the boy, too?” I feel like I’m keeping everything inside, and it’s making me depressed. I hate that I set myself up like this. I’m pretty sure I will never do this again, but I don’t know how to recover from this one. It hurts so much that on the Friday I saw him, we could talk about anything. We talked about so many personal things. And now….nothing. Not so much as an email. It really hurts.
I know intellectually that guys are like this. But it’s still hard for me to understand how someone can be so close to someone and then just pull away like it never happened. I didn’t think about what would happen after the weekend. But I never imagined it like this.
As far as these older guys I go out with, they all want to know right away if I feel any chemistry for them. Translation: I’d like to have sex with you very soon. None of them are looking for a woman to be a friend. So I am really on a different page as them. Our agendas just don’t match up. I don’t even feel much friendship potential because I just don’t feel like I can really open up on the first few dates anyway. You see what happens when I open up–I scare them away. It’s a catch 22. So then I keep hearing that I need yet MORE time alone to heal. But really, these issues only come up in the context of getting close to someone.
I feel pretty discouraged. I am a Libra. For those into astrology, I was born to be in a relationship. And yet, I have spent a good part of the last 8 years alone, and it looks like it will be another 8 years.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 23 September 2009 @ 8:52pm
Stargazer says:
EB, this sounds so great. Keep us posted, so I can live vicariously!
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 23 September 2009 @ 8:56pm
skylar says:
Erin,
Please don’t hate me, but I have to tell you about a tiny little red flag -or two. Princess? Pedestal?
He may be a great person… I am very paranoid you know. I think there are P’s everywhere.
I’m so glad you are happy and that you posted about your date. I feel like the whole LF gang is dating with you, but I feel like we’re getting too giddy too fast!
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 23 September 2009 @ 9:04pm
ErinBrockovich says:
Stargazer…..
I felt like that too….and I may fell like that again…..
THE REALITY:
We were not meeting the right persons for us…..
We can only protect ourselves by not giving out so much to ‘earn’ the ‘love’……
Don’t have sex… this is a gift you can give yourself.
I am a born again virgin….it’s been 2 years….YIKES…..
Oh, at times it sucks…..but I have learned self control….sexually……
It also allows me to have higher self esteem and value myself more.
Sex is not part of ‘dating’…….if we don’t allow it….if we remain in control of the ’sex’ part…..don’t give it up……then you won’t feel bad….
If you have a casual date and it doesn’t click….no harm no foul……
We don’t connect through casual sex…..we just have casual sex.
Women have the expectation that a man will not be able to resist us if we give it up……no….they take what we give, and have no respect for us!
WE ARE IN CONTROL OF OUR OWN BODIES!
Let a ‘relationship’ blossom…..grow, nurture….
take the sex out of the blossoming, growing and nurturing….
Bottom line…..you are ‘fantasizing’ about the connection…..because the reality is…..if it was there….you would hear from him again. PERIOD!
Each date…..pledge to learn something valuable about yourself, your behaviors…..pledge to take something out of each experience….good, bad, ugly.
Take each of these lessons into the next date, relationship and allow yourself to grow……
Don’t get discouraged…….as easy as it is to do……
IT ONLY TAKES ONE GOOD (for you) MAN TO COME ALONG!!!
And he hasn’t come along yet…….
Just last week I was telling a GF…..am I that hideious I can’t get a return phone call? A second date?
Take this time to learn about you….I am fully convinced and my past has proven……IT ALL WORKS OUT THE WAY IT SHOULD…..don’t fret!
Concentrate on YOU!
XXOO
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 23 September 2009 @ 9:07pm
ErinBrockovich says:
SKYLAR:
Hate you?????? Not a chance…..this is why I am here….
Keep us grounded!
Thanks…..My radar is on back up battery powered generator….In case I have an internal power outage….
I am trying to balance the paranoia with the desire to trust again…..and have a HEALTHY relationship.
Hopefully, I won’t allow the scales to tip in the wrong direction without notice!
Love you girl…..thanks for the reality check!
XXOO
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 23 September 2009 @ 9:11pm
ErinBrockovich says:
SHIT…..does this mean I should cancel the bachelerette party?
JK
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 23 September 2009 @ 9:13pm
Stargazer says:
So now the guy doesn’t respect me and I am depressed and feel like crap. So how do I climb out of this one?
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 23 September 2009 @ 9:17pm
skylar says:
Stargazer,
I didn’t advise NT to be honest – everyone else did. I’m way too paranoid to think that way. In the end, I usually throw caution to the wind, just like you did last weekend, but all the way there I’m freakin out and paranoid. In the end honesty is easier than lying but you don’t have to lie, you can just not talk to him.
I wish you and I could go out and party and find us some guys to just hang out with and flirt. I wish I could be there for you in person, not just on LF.
Maybe it’s time to indulge yourself in a brand new hobby, something you haven’t done but always wanted to. There could be a new friend waiting to meet you. Oh, how about salsa dancing? I don’t do it, but this summer I practiced using my video equipment on the dancers.
go to salsa.meetup.com or google salsa rueda.
I did some videos of them, and they seem to really have a blast. I can’t afford the lessons right now so I didn’t join.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 23 September 2009 @ 9:19pm
ErinBrockovich says:
Stargazer:
Shake it up girl……I didn’t mean to put you further into depression……
I believe we need to be honest with ourselves, feel the pain so we can connect with ourselves….
Hey, you got laid, you had fun……
Please don’t live with ANY regrets……just lessons about yourself!
There are lessons here…….
Skylar is right…..do something different……this is what I mean by SHAKE IT UP!
Allow yourself tonight…..and commit to tomorrow being a new day and a new you……take care of YOU!
You can’t change your past, only your future!
So get on it girl!
Don’t beat yourself up!!!!
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 23 September 2009 @ 9:28pm
ErinBrockovich says:
And get yourself a ‘power tool’……one with no brain and not human!
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 23 September 2009 @ 9:29pm
Stargazer says:
You know, I am on the verge of doing some new things. I’m waiting for my mortgage company to (hopefully) offer me a loan modification so I can do more than buy groceries and stay home on the internet to save money.
But that doesn’t solve the problem of the depression. I feel depressed because I feel like all these feelings that I can’t express are crushing down on me. It makes me feel like I don’t really want to do anything. It zaps my energy. Maybe I just need to keep having imaginary conversations with the boy in my head just to get the feelings out. Or write him one of those letter that I don’t send. I’m so used to writing those, because so many people who have been in my life have ignored those letters and never cared how I feel. Is it any wonder I feel so worthless?
I’m even now worrying about STD’s. We practiced (mostly) safe sex, and had the safe sex talk. But it’s never really totally safe. Can you imagine having to call him to tell him he gave me an STD? Had I known he would just pull away like this, I would have canceled his trip out here. I almost did, but I changed my mind. I should have listened to my first intuition.
Wow, my mind is going from bad to worse. I’m just hurting so much.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 23 September 2009 @ 9:32pm
justabouthealed says:
stargazer….Sounds like you think you don’t feel you don’t open up enough about your feelings, but you also tell guys after the fact, even two years after the fact, what they did wrong and expect them to “get it”. It is just not THAT difficult to know how to treat people right. Clearly the boy did NOT. And telling him that ain’t going to change things. Ever. Here is a great article that may not apply to you, but I love this blog. http://www.baggagereclaim.co.u.....to-listen/
You might want to explore her other articles on emotionally unavailable men. I apologize if I already recommended the site to you. I forget!
Also, if the men you are attracting aren’t working out, take a look at several things.
1)Where you are fishing. Some places attract more jerks than others.
2) What you are fishing with. One of my friends dresses VERY provocatively, and then complains that her dates just want one thing. I am NOT saying anything is a woman’s fault, but I am saying, try to make sure your dress and where you hang out, etc. reflects who you really are, so that you attract men that like the real you as projected outwardly. I have another friend who never bothers with makeup, doesn’t fuss with her hair or clothes, but she is very much into issues, and she meets guys on the picket lines who admire her passion for the cause and also how real she is.
3) What you are tossing back into the water. The book “women who love too much”…which is NOT one of my favorites, too much blame on women, does say that an emotionally healthy relationship will never feel as compelling as the unhealthy one for us. I know that men draw me in who are a bit exotic, who are passionate, who are successful, who are handsome but don’t seem to know it…..but who I get the instant hots for, and who I would seriously date are two different things. I don’t want a husband who is smooth with women, flirts easily, etc. Nice for the hots, but not husband material. You know what I mean? I would never date for the “hots” ever again, nor would I ever date anyone that didn’t seem fairly “equal” to me. Just not worth the risk of the kind of hurt you are feeling.
Lastly, I have to say ladies that I’m not overly attractive. I’m 59. But I get hit on LOTS. I have learned not to smile so much. LOL! But my husband tells me it is because I’m so passionate about my work, and so clearly into my work, that men don’t pick up any “neediness” about me, and I smile lots and laugh lots, but hardly give a man the time of day….so then they try to get my attention.
Nonprofit conferences attract both passionate men and women and while there are some narcs, it is not the best place for making money, so by in large, most of the men are decent men.
Stargazer, you love snakes, but maybe try the animal rights conferences like “taking action for animals” . The men there are really good guys most of them. Or volunteer at your local humane society if they get in reptiles. Go to their fundraising events, volunteer at their booths…you would probably have fun and meet a different kind of person????? I’m shooting in the dark, don’t know much about you!!
But I do know I’m so frustrated to see you hurting!
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 23 September 2009 @ 9:33pm
ErinBrockovich says:
JAH:
I was contimplating this thought….
Your comment about the hot guys…..etc….
Today, I dated out of my ‘usual’……I forced myslef to not cut him off from the get go…..because he isn’t ‘hot’.
He is someone I would never approach first. EVER!
Lesson today……(WHETHER IT GOES FURTHER OR NOT)….
Shake it up….experience all types/sorts…
I know hot didn’t work for me……maritally/sexually/parentally/parnerally……all the ally’s……I”M DIVORCED from a S!
What is hot……
I am learning hot may not be physical…..hot is intellectual, personality, WHO the person is, not what they have or how they look on the outside….
TOday was a big lesson……I enjoyed this guy……and he is not ‘hot’ physically.
I have given this much thought…….
Thanks for your post…..food for thought indeed.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 23 September 2009 @ 9:42pm
Stargazer says:
Sorry, guys, I’m just feeling so tired and depressed right now. The last thing on my mind is volunteer work or any kind of fun. I volunteered for a cat shelter for a few years and headed up a committee there. I was able to make some big changes. All I met there were women. And it didn’t fix my depression. I need to fix this depression. I don’t know how. I just don’t have it in me to go out and have fun right now, except to fake it for work. I don’t even have much desire to go out and have fun.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 23 September 2009 @ 9:42pm
justabouthealed says:
Okay, for everyone waiting for “the one” here is a great blog post and Stargazer, maybe this is a better one for you too.
http://www.baggagereclaim.co.u.....your-life/
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 23 September 2009 @ 9:43pm
ErinBrockovich says:
Stargazer…..
Happy BIRTHDAY FELLOW LIBRA GIRL!
I’m OCT 1………
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 23 September 2009 @ 9:43pm
justabouthealed says:
Stargazer, I’m sorry. Boink me for being overly helpful. I’m working on that!
I hope you get some relief from your depression soon. You know there is help out there, it is one of the easier fixes in the mental health field. It is a temporary feeling, it WILL pass. But some help might be needed.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 23 September 2009 @ 9:45pm
kim frederick says:
I think that when we have sex tto soon, we can become overly attached, the guy “smells it in the air” and gets totally freaked out. We haven’t even given him a chance to know if he likes us yet. I would go so far to say that sex de-rails the process by which men decide, because it distracts their attention away from who you are as a person. I think it puts a lot of unwanted pressure on men, especially good men, as they have a conscience and are afraid they might not be able to match your feelings, so they get out fast before anyone ever even knows for sure.
Course, I’m not a man, and this is all speculation. And I can know this but totally disregard it when I am in the situation, myself.
I am hoping that each and everyone of us finds the love we deserve. But at least for me, I’m not in any hurry.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 23 September 2009 @ 9:51pm
justabouthealed says:
One last comment. What is wrong with wonderful women friends for emotional needs and a vibrator for the rest? (to be blunt). What is so fricking special about men? I have one…and he is wonderful…but every where you go, there you are!
Having a man, I could STILL find lots to be unhappy about in my life. How about the fact that I’ve never had children? And I’m old? And that I’m tied down by my man, can’t go off to some exotic jobs I’ve had to turn down? that I have to deal with his relatives? That I can’t go try other men? On and on I could go. I could find so much to cry about, if I wanted to, I really could. How about that I have a disease that could kill me easily at any time? That I have a bladder bag on my belly?
I’ve gone through times when my marriage was in the pits, but I was still happy. I’ve gone through times when my marriage was wonderful, but I was still unhappy.
Until we learn to focus on ourselves, and get clear about what brings us joy in life, we are going to only be so happy, no matter what changes in our life. I had a co-worker win the lottery. There was a high, sure. But then life got back to normal. You can still only wear one outfit at a time, as my mom (narc though she was) used to say.
Think of how you would feel and act if you had everything you wanted in life and start acting that way now. Because in many ways, as a person who is on the Internet, who knows how to read and write, you are already RICH AND BLESSED beyond the dreams of a huge percentage of people in the world. You have clean water to drink! That in itself is a blessing that so many would love to have.
Oh well, enough. I’ve got to get to work!
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 23 September 2009 @ 9:55pm
Stargazer says:
It’s funny how you guys are blaming yourselves for my depression. It is not your fault. You are not doing anything wrong. There is probably nothing anyone can do right now. I just feel like crap. It’s a different kind of feeling like crap than what I went through with the sociopath. He was an aberration in my life. Now I’m back to my old patterns with men. I just kind of picked up where I left off. I made the mistake of telling one of my co-workers yesterday that I feel sad. Of course immediately she started the “cheer up” stuff that always makes me shut down and feel like I have to put a fake smile on my face. Maybe if I feel like bad enough crap, I will NEVER put myself through this with a man again, even if it means going into a monastery. This has hit me right in the self-esteem. It really kills me that this guy that I’ve managed to consider as some sort of friend now lost respect for me. It makes me feel like crap. Never mind that he behaved very badly. There is such a double standard for men.
I have a lot of jobs and interests but truthfully, there is nothing in my life that I am passionate about at the moment. I can’t even remember a time I felt passionate about anything. This is part of the problem.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 23 September 2009 @ 9:56pm
Stargazer says:
Happy Birthday to you too, EB. Mine is Oct 12. Kim, you are right about sex derailing a relationship. But in this case, I knew from the start we couldn’t have a relationship, and he was upfront about not wanting one right now. I really just thought we could have a great affair and stay close friends. I don’t know what I was thinking. I just didn’t expect him to behave badly. The reason he came out to see me was to make amends for the last time he behaved badly.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 23 September 2009 @ 10:00pm
kim frederick says:
Stargazer, have you considered anti-depressants? I have been on them on two separate occasions, and they really helped!
I know I suggested LAA once before, but I really think you could find a lot of relief there. There is an on-line blog there, like here, there are people there that will sponcer you through the steps. They share their experience, strength, and hope, and help you recognize the patterns in your behavior that are counter-productive. I hope you’ll consider taking a look at it, but I won’t bring it up again. God bless. You deserve better than this!
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 23 September 2009 @ 10:03pm
Stargazer says:
What is LAA? I think I could probably benefit from some medications but I cannot currently afford them, nor can I afford an office visit to my doctor to prescribe them or ongoing visits to monitor them. I have very high deductibles on my insurance plan. Stuff like acupuncture and herbal anti-depressants are also helpful and also too expensive at the moment. I have also been on many anti-depressants before. They seem to have an immediate mood-enhancing effect that diminishes after a few days. I’m very sensitive and can feel them working within hours, rather than weeks.
I actually opened up to him as he did with me. As usual, opening up with someone has scared them away rather than bringing them closer. Story of my life. I am not extremely happy in my life right now, but I don’t know really how to change it, because I don’t know what would make me happier.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 23 September 2009 @ 10:13pm
shabbychic says:
Havy any of you ever read any of those “e” books you can download on the internet… about men and relationships? I have, can’t remember too much except the “don’t have the serious talk too soon”… “don’t call them”… “men love the chase”… not that anybody’s asking me out anyway… but a lot of it sounds like crap, like we have to be what they want, when they want, like walking on eggshells again, why can’t I just be myself, why would they run away if I said “where’s this whole thing going?”
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 23 September 2009 @ 10:13pm
shabbychic says:
Star, I can really relate to what you are saying “I don’t know what would make me happier”… ditto. “there is nothing in my life that I am passionate about at the moment”… ditto. “As usual, opening up with someone has scared them away rather than bringing them closer”… ditto. Jeez, I just feel like pulling my hair out and turning myself inside out. I also am not happy at the job I have at the moment… to top everything off.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 23 September 2009 @ 10:18pm
shabbychic says:
I was LOOKING at men on an internet dating site (I don’t participate) and this one guy had such a bullshit description, it just went on and on and on… I wanted to post it here for your “enjoyment” but it was too long, what a P/S, it was SO OBVIOUS to me (now).
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 23 September 2009 @ 10:22pm
skylar says:
Stargazer,
You are chemically depressed. That means that for whatever reason your chemicals are out of whack. your thoughts are being driven by the chemicals at this point. which came first, the chicken or the egg? who knows, who cares. what to do is what matters.
First, is the realization about the chemicals. Know it, and believe it. Now your thoughts: that’s harder, because you are only going to look on the dark side of things while your chemicals are off.
So try to be objective. He didn’t disrespect you because you had sex. He doesn’t have any more or less respect for you than he ever had. He is immature and what he gave you is all he is capable of giving. period. Yeah, you are realizing that he faked much of his compassion because he wanted to get more emotion out of you. Isn’t that what a P does? You know what? don’t even worry about it. You got to have sex with a young stud. Freakin Cool. Give him MY address!
He may have even thought you were faking your emotions to get into his hot little pants. Who knows. Your feelings are always going to follow the perspective you give them.
When I first met he P was the happiest time in my life. Because of my perspective! and we were living in a one room converted storage room in a basement, with peeling plaster. It was disgusting. But it was by choice and I was in heaven. I didn’t know I was living with a predator. It’s funny when you think about it a certain way.
I’m depressed too because of the P and because I have no income and lots of debt. But I’m not going to worry about it because everything always works out. Besides, I’ve never had so many wonderful and wise friends in my entire life as I do now on LF!
Also, focusing on the things you have to be grateful for is really very helpful.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 23 September 2009 @ 10:27pm
shabbychic says:
Oh, one man, he had long gray hair, was in his early 60’s, posted a picture of himself standing next to his jeep, no shirt on, sucking in his gut, and pulling down on his belt so it went below his stomach, IT WAS HILARIOUS. What an idiot. Plus, only his forearms were tan!! ROTFLMAO!!!!!
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 23 September 2009 @ 10:27pm
shabbychic says:
Star, why would he fly all the way out there if it was “just” sex, it doesn’t make any sense, and I don’t understand why he hasn’t called or emailed since, of course, I’ve never understood men. Anyhoo, a fling is sounding pretty good to me right now.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 23 September 2009 @ 10:31pm
Stargazer says:
Skylar,
You’re probably right about the depression being keyed into my chemistry at this point. I think rejection tends to trigger it.
One thing, though, I don’t think either me or the boy was really faking anything. I think there was a genuine connection, as much as there could be with our age difference, but events of the weekend–maybe even the argument we had–just caused him to distance, for whatever reason. I cannot worry about it now, but it still hurts. I need to figure out a way to process this hurt and release it so it doesn’t drag me down. I just took a break and gave my snakeys fresh water and danced to a song on the radio. Dance used to be one of my passions way back when, and I still like to dance in my living room. I really feel like so much of my life has passed me by while I’ve been trying to survive for so long. I don’t know how I will recover passion in life at my age, but that’s a whole other topic.
I’m holding on here like a lifeline to all the kind and wise friends I have here. I hope I can get through this and maybe be a better person because of it.
Shabbychic, if you’re talking about guys on dating sites, yes some of them are pretty freakin hilarious. Gotta love the shirtless car pics. Do they really think that’s what women want? LOL
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 23 September 2009 @ 10:39pm
Stargazer says:
Shabbychic, I managed to miss reading about 3 of your posts. It would really be so great if we could all hang out together. It really does lift my spirits to be here. He didn’t come all the way out here just for a booty call. He is really trying to work on himself. He told me he genuinely felt hurt when I told him he’d hurt me before. He wanted to give me a really great weekend and “make it up to me” for how weird things were before. I never even thought he was a jerk before. I thought it was just the situation and also his age. So something obviously happened that made him be more aloof at the end. We were kissing and cuddling before and he was very communicative. Things just changed after the sex. I know he was really aggravated with my Siamese cat. The cat was very jealous and cried and walked on the guy’s head all night (lol) trying to get between us. He doesn’t like cats anyway. He just seemed ready to go when the weekend was over. He wasn’t rude. Just more distant. Maybe I’m just reading too much into it. Who knows what goes through a man’s mind. After all these years, I still don’t know.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 23 September 2009 @ 10:49pm
Stargazer says:
All the guys I meet now are on a dating site. There are just so few I have any interest in, but if we have anything in common and they seem nice, I try to give them a chance. The one I went hiking with on Sunday just emailed me. He is coming down to visit the snakes this weekend and maybe go on another hike with me. At least it’s good to get out of the house and exercise.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 23 September 2009 @ 10:51pm
Stargazer says:
P.S. If any of you guys ever come out to Colorado, you are always welcome to drop by.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 23 September 2009 @ 10:53pm
skylar says:
Stargazer, my sister lives near Denver. where do you live?
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 23 September 2009 @ 10:56pm
shabbychic says:
Yeah, that’s what I mean, he didn’t fly out there for a booty call. Love the cat walking on his head, LOL! I don’t understand men, I probably don’t understand most women! I admire you for giving the dating sites a try, I’m too insecure to post my picture, even with not posting my photo some of the guys still email me, my description is a RANT about how they see me at the store… bank… etc., but won’t approach me because their too chickenshit, really a bitchy description, not meant to entice anyone, and they still write. Go figure.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 23 September 2009 @ 11:12pm
skylar says:
I’m reading “the art of selfishness” by David Seabury. it’s a very old book, but has some wisdom. It reminds me that when you give everything you’ve got, you’ll end up in a homeless shelter begging for everything you need. That would be me.
another good advice from the book, I can’t find the exact page right now, but it was like,”don’t ever let anyone give you something that they aren’t absolutely desperate to give.”
Reason for this is that you will both feel that you owe the giver. Then you get obligation and guilt.
I thought that these were two really good ideas for maintaining boundaries. That is basically what the book is about. I have no boundaries, so I need to read stuff like this.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 23 September 2009 @ 11:40pm
shabbychic says:
skylar, thank you for sharing that, I just loaned a gf some money the other day (that I will never see again) then AFTERWARDS I thought “what am I doing? I haven’t changed a bit.” I SWORE to myself that I was NEVER going to loan/give ANYBODY any money ever again, then I turn right around and do it again. I will end up in a homeless shelter if I keep doing this. The only person I should be helping out is my daughter. So, that would be me too.
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Wednesday, 23 September 2009 @ 11:52pm
shabbychic says:
jah… cockroach assclown… ha ha ha. I like that website too, I forget about it, so thanks for reminding me!
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Wednesday, 23 September 2009 @ 11:55pm
kim frederick says:
Justabouthealed, do you know my XP was so controlling, and so afraid that I might have allies, that any time a woman was around he would imply that she was lesbian, and if we got along really well, then I was probably doing her. I wanted so much for him to see what a trustworthy and virtuious woman I was that I caved to this BS and just wouldn’t have friends. This, while most of the time I didn’t know where he was or what he was doing. My world got really small, and even now after 2 years NC, I still don’t have any real woman friends. I’ve said before I’m pretty isolated, but I miss my women friends. Did you all like Sex and the City? New movie coming out soon. Wish we could all dress in our NY best and go together. Love.
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Wednesday, 23 September 2009 @ 11:57pm
shabbychic says:
Love, love, love Sex and the City!!! I have women friends who never want to go anywhere or do anything. I feel very isolated too. I am sick of being the one that calls them to say hi.
(Report abusive comment)
Thursday, 24 September 2009 @ 12:02am
kim frederick says:
skylar, Wow. love that quote. If you give everything you have….I did end up in a shelter, begging. Still not back on my feet. Still feel crippled, still trying to find hope and inspiration enough to get me up off my ass and cause me to expend the energy to get my life back! There’s so much I haven’t told you all. It’s scarey!
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Thursday, 24 September 2009 @ 12:13am
skylar says:
Kim,
I get the feeling that you are intellectually the most brilliant woman. How did you end up in the shelter?
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Thursday, 24 September 2009 @ 12:17am
ErinBrockovich says:
Kim:
It WILL come….good things await all of us!!!!
We realize we are walking with only our shadows in this world…..we must rely only on oursleves…..
Once we master this concept…..LOOK OUT WORLD…..
Keep putting one foot in front of the other girl…..your doing great!
You are a beautiful lady!!!
XXOO
EB
(Report abusive comment)
Thursday, 24 September 2009 @ 12:30am
OxDrover says:
Star,
“the only guys I meet ar eon this dating site”—-THAT, I THINK IS YOUR PROBLEM.
Meeting someone on the internet is a total CRAP SHOOT and you are FISHING IN A POND THAT IS PROBABLY 30-50% PSYCHOPATHS AND CON MEN.
The latest statistic I read is that 30% of the men on dating sites are MARRIED.
If you “fish” in a cess-pool you are not going to catch anything worth keeping. that’s my take.
The other thing, Star, is you DO have signs of CLINICAL depression and that is a chemical imbalance and medication is a help for this. Just as if you had DIABETEs which is also a hormonal imbalance, you wouldn’t say “Oh, I’ll just work it out in my head”—YOU WOULD GET MEDICATION to get better, same with clniical depression. Get evaluated by a mental health professional (not your family doc) and see if you meed antidepressant medication. “Toughing it out” emotionally isn’t any smarter than “toughing out” diabetes without medication.
The other suggestion is GET OFF THE DATING SITES completely, lgetting on them when you are doing fine is “bad” but gettin gon them when you are DEPRESSED is emotional suicide! (((hugs))))
(Report abusive comment)
Thursday, 24 September 2009 @ 7:22am
skylar says:
off topic:
I’m trying to buy a fluid video head for my camcorder off craigslist because I don’t have much money.
Here is one seller, but his email seems fishy…
I hate to pass up the opportunity since they are few and far between. What do you guys think? Is he a P?
Hi, I’m interested in looking at the fluid head. Do you still have it? Are you available tomorrow? Or tonight?
Skylar
(current time 9:05PM)
Tonight’s good, tomorrow early AM, sfter that I’m tied up in meetings from 9-9
Randy
Randy,
too late tonight, How early in the AM? and where can we meet? I’m in seattle.
Skylar
I’m up early- could meet at 7 or later, need to head for my mtng by 8:30. I’m at the 1st Totem Lake Exit (116th St.) off the 405. There is a Shari’s restaurant just to the right of the offramp. Let me know if you’d like to meet there and what time.
Unfortunately, I misplaced my cell phone today so we cannot connect by phone.
Randy
(Report abusive comment)
Thursday, 24 September 2009 @ 8:52am
justabouthealed says:
shabbychic…my husband says only 99 out of 100 men would fly from CA to CO to get laid. Esp. younger ones.
Also he says…yup…then after sex, he’s done. Everything changes.
Sorry ladies. That’s how many are, esp. young ones. They will say all the right words, do whatever they have, to get you to take your clothes off. As desperate as we are for loving words and romance….we’ll do almost anything for that, forgive almost anything, give a second, third and fourth chance….that’s how they are about getting sex. We sometimes don’t “mean” the sex…in that we really aren’t in it for the sex. And they sometimes don’t “mean’ the emotional stuff…in that they really aren’t in it for the emotional connection.
But the longer they keep up the pretense, the more it IS a total pretense, the more they KNOW that your heart is in it, the crueler the sudden reversal…then the further along they are on the psychopathic continuum. And the really bad ones LIKE it MORE if they know they are hurting you and they PLAN to hurt you.
Stargazer, he may not be a “10″ on that scale, but he also didn’t treat you right TWICE…and I repeat, it is just NOT THAT HARD to treat people decently. He doesn’t need to have it explained to him that he was a jerk. HE KNOWS DAMN WELL HE WAS, and all your talking would do is convince him that “well, baby, I must not be THAT bad, because here you are phoning me and if I say the right words, you know you’ll have me in your bed again because DAMN I must be good!” No matter how SWEET he was, how CARING he was, how CONNECTED you were, HE IS A JERK. You don’t just spend a weekend with someone and then TOTALLY disappear. Dailing a cell phone is just NOT THAT HARD either. Who doesn’t get that not contacting you to at least say thanks for the wonderful memories, but now I need some space, we agreed this wasn’t going anywhere, and I don’t think it would be good to repeat,l blah blah, blah ….that not at least doing that is being a jerk . HE gets that! He just doesn’t like unpleasant conversations that reinforce he used you.
And if you have told him that you used to be a stripper….some men get off on that, and the bragging rights. They do!!!!! You sound beautiful and exotic and sexually uninhibited and they just can’t resist bragging (if you told him.) Just like I got off on saying I was involved with a megamillionaire. I hate that about myself, but at the time it was true. But any man who is attracted to you because of that is in it for the WRONG reasons, just like any woman attracted to a man for his money is in it for the WRONG reasons.
I agree with Oxy, please get help for the depression.
Stargazer, you are a wonderful person with much to offer WOMEN and men. I wish we lived closer!
And forgive all my “helping”…I’ve got to stop HELPING!!! Oxy, boink me!
(Report abusive comment)
Thursday, 24 September 2009 @ 10:16am
justabouthealed says:
Forgive me, I know some of you have been cut off from women and all support. I was just reacting to someone saying they ONLY met women during their volunteer work. (which is discouraging when you are hoping to at least meet a few men, which is what we were talking about.) But it just reminded me that women are great too.
I’m just saying, don’t give up on women as a source of emotional warmth. My girlfriends always remember my birthday, they say I love you, they care when I’m crying instead of getting freaked by it, etc etc. Women can really be there for each other.
So if you meant to meet men, but you end up meeting women, make the most of it. A best friend forever…that can be pretty wonderful too.
BOINK ME OXY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Thursday, 24 September 2009 @ 10:25am
OxDrover says:
Dear JAH,
Nah, you “boinked” yourself! LOL
I agree with that FRIENDS are IMPOPRTANT, and those who have had bad romantic relationships might want to start out with SAME SEX FRIENDS for support rather than a romantic relationship.
You can also practice “spotting red flags” with new friends too, of either sex.
A while back I spotted the RED FLAGS in someone new (female) in my life and I am so proud of myself—it restored my confidence in MYSELF.
(Report abusive comment)
Thursday, 24 September 2009 @ 10:38am
witsend says:
Oxy,
Did Donna foreward my email information to you? Maybe you have to let her know its ok?
(Report abusive comment)
Thursday, 24 September 2009 @ 10:42am
OxDrover says:
Not yet, but I will notify her. Hope you are doing well today, be GOOD to yourself! (((hugs))))
(Report abusive comment)
Thursday, 24 September 2009 @ 12:41pm
justabouthealed says:
skylar…didn’t mean to ignore your question. If your gut is saying forget it, do! But at least he is saying meet in a public spot.
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Thursday, 24 September 2009 @ 12:50pm
Matt says:
Hi all:
Well, I’m back from Greece. And I have to say I had a fabulous time with my new guy. A complete 180 from last year’s trip to the bowels of hell with my ex-S. So, when I saw this article on finding a new relationship after the S, I had to let you know about my trip.
It was so nice just spending time with somebody who you want to be with and who wants to be with you. He genuinely appreciated everything I did for him — from showing him around the island, to meeting friends of mine, to just spending time with me.
And we did have to spend some quality time. It never rains in the Cyclade Islands until November. Until this year. Three solid days of rain. I have to say I learned some interesting things. Like after 5 months with no rain, that cacti send out new shoots and flowers. And how white everything in the islands is without a coating of dust. And that my car is blue.
But, I also learned how nice it is to be with somebody you trust and like as a person Instead of worrying about the S ripping off my neighbor’s villa (like last year), I just relaxed. We read. We enjoyed the view. We enjoyed each others company. And we had lots and lots of sex. In the most amazing places. Thank God most of my neighbors had left for the season.
So, for everybody out there who is wondering if they will ever meet somebody after the S, I can tell you from personal experience that the answer is a resounding YES! I can tell you that you have to get really clear, first, on what qualities you are looking for in a person. Kindness topped my list. And I got a very kind man.
I can also tell you that yes, the hold the S has on your brain does finally wane. I was amazed how little the S entered my thoughts when I was on holiday. Considering that just a year earlier he had absolutely wrecked the trip and practically destroyed my feelings toward a place that was very special to me.
Somebody on another thread made a comment about having to hold up a mental stop sign when the S enters their thoughts. I think that’s good advice — after you have gone through the stages Kathy Hawke has written about. No shortcuts on that one. But, once you go through the stages, and get clear about what you’re looking for, I really do believe that you will meet somebody worthwhile whom you will want to spend time — and who will want to spend time with you and not to meet some hidden agenda on his part.
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Thursday, 24 September 2009 @ 8:19pm
ErinBrockovich says:
Matt:
Welcome home! Missed you and your wonderful postings.
I am so very pleased you had the vacation you deserved! I hope all your dreams come true in your future.
As much time as you had together, it’s wonderful you enjoyed his company and character.
May all good things come your way….
A job is next on the horizon….remember, it all works out the way it should!
Really it does!
Welcome home my dear~
XXOO
EB
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Thursday, 24 September 2009 @ 8:59pm
Stargazer says:
I have a headache today and starting to feel mad, which is the first step toward getting over this. I have no need to talk to him. JAH, your husband is exactly right. I couldn’t have said it better myself. Funny, he said he was coming out here to “make amends” for the last visit. I guess now we know what “make amends” is a code for. lol He did email me after he got back to let me know he got back and to thank me for “an awesome weekend” before he became scarce. I guess this is more than what I got last time. Wow, it never occurred to me to think of him as psychopathic, but I think that fits in the context it was mentioned. I really thought my days of psychopaths were over. At least I knew what “making amends” was a code for, too. I walked right in with my eyes open.
Whatever I do to deal with this depression, it will have to be without doctors and meds because unfortunately I cannot afford any of it right now. My deductibles are way too high, and I have to pay full price for everything. Even the meds alone are out of my budget. I do believe there are alternative methods for dealing with depression and I will find them. I have been on meds for long periods of time in the past with no benefit except toxic build-up in my system. As I mentioned before, some of them tend to have an initial effect. Then they don’t work any more. I have tried about 6 different kinds. I also feel they work better with therapy, which I also cannot afford at the moment. I’m not whining. It is what it is, and hopefully that will change at some point.
Matt, last I heard you were just starting to hang out with someone. How great that it’s going so well! The memories from your latest trip can now override the memories of your last trip with the S. This is great news and very encouraging. Some people here are obviously healthier than others in the dating realm. I’m not one of them apparently.
I do not throw out the baby with the bathwater with dating sites. I have had a few serious relationships from dating sites in the past and know people who have married from them. I don’t think it’s a terrible way to meet people but you do have to be careful. I also have made a few friends from dating sites. I have to disagree with how horrible they all are and that all the people are scumbags. But this is just my opinion, based on my experience. Many of the guys seem like they want to get involved very quickly. I am usually put off by that so there is often not more than one meeting. It’s something to do and it gets me out of the house. I don’t think it’s terrible. I do have SOME boundaries and feel I CAN trust myself to have some discernment. I just need to stay away from the youngers ones.
Skylar, I live in SE Denver. Let me know if you ever come to town. I’m not so depressed that I can’t enjoy meeting someone and having a good time!
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Thursday, 24 September 2009 @ 9:30pm
Matt says:
Stargazer:
I met my guy on a dating site. So, like you, I can’t condemn them. You do have to go in with your eyes open, your b.s. meter working at full tilt, and some really hard rules regarding the people you interact with. My basic rules are you are allowed 2 emails, then we had better speak on the phone, and after that meet for coffee. Too many flakes are really good on the email/invisible stuff. And if you don’t require the phone and coffee to see what they really are, it is too easy to construct a fantasy man from whatever words they are putting out there on the internet.
REgarding your depression, I am anti-depressant resistant. My therapist is also an psychopharmacologist and has me on some vitamins, etc, all which you can buy at any drugstore or GNC, which has helped my mood and sleep. At night I take 3000 mgs of flax seed oil, 3000 mgs of omega 3 oils, 1000 mgs of B-12 and 3 mgs of melatonin. In the AM I take a megavitamin. It seems to be working for me.
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Thursday, 24 September 2009 @ 10:02pm
Matt says:
Stargazer:
I met my guy on a dating site. So, like you, I can’t condemn them. You do have to go in with your eyes open, your b.s. meter working at full tilt, and some really hard rules regarding the people you interact with. My basic rules are you are allowed 2 emails, then we had better speak on the phone, and after that meet for coffee. Too many flakes are really good on the email/invisible stuff. And if you don’t require the phone and coffee to see what they really are, it is too easy to construct a fantasy man from whatever words they are putting out there on the internet.
REgarding your depression, I am anti-depressant resistant. My therapist is also an psychopharmacologist and has me on some vitamins, etc, all which you can buy at any drugstore or GNC, which has helped my mood and sleep. At night I take 3000 mgs of flax seed oil, 3000 mgs of omega 3 oils, 1000 mgs of B-12 and 3 mgs of melatonin. In the AM I take a megavitamin. It seems to be working for me.
(Report abusive comment)
Thursday, 24 September 2009 @ 10:02pm
Matt says:
Stargazer:
I met my guy on a dating site. So, like you, I can’t condemn them. You do have to go in with your eyes open, your b.s. meter working at full tilt, and some really hard rules regarding the people you interact with. My basic rules are you are allowed 2 emails, then we had better speak on the phone, and after that meet for coffee. Too many flakes are really good on the email/invisible stuff. And if you don’t require the phone and coffee to see what they really are, it is too easy to construct a fantasy man from whatever words they are putting out there on the internet.
REgarding your depression, I am anti-depressant resistant. My therapist is also an psychopharmacologist and has me on some vitamins, etc, all which you can buy at any drugstore or GNC, which has helped my mood and sleep. At night I take 3000 mgs of flax seed oil, 3000 mgs of omega 3 oils, 1000 mgs of B-12 and 3 mgs of melatonin. In the AM I take a megavitamin. It seems to be working for me.
(Report abusive comment)
Thursday, 24 September 2009 @ 10:02pm
Matt says:
I have no idea why that comment just showed up 3 times. It certainly didn’t bear repeating 3 times…
(Report abusive comment)
Thursday, 24 September 2009 @ 10:03pm
Stargazer says:
Thanks, Matt,
I was taking a supplement that really helps with depression but I can’t find the bottle. I didn’t always need it so I was just taking it at times when I felt overwhelmed (like now) and felt myself slipping into depression. One of the things about anti-depressants is that you have to take them every day. You can’t just take yourself off of them. So I have usually gotten toxic levels of them in my system for long periods of time with no benefit. That’s a lot of havoc to wreak on the liver. But I’ll tell you, if they worked for me, and I could afford them, I wouldn’t hesitate to take them.
For better or for worse, the internet plays such a significant role in our lives in this day and age. I have read somewhere that 1 in 8 couples met on the internet. For me, I don’t fear meeting internet people. I see it as a tool for expanding your social circle and making introductions. But I do think you have to be very careful, meeting in public places, letting someone know where you’re going, etc. After all, this is an internet site, and some of us consider each other as friends. I have made very good friends on my reptile site. Though the young boy and the sociopath were both from that site, it is not enough to put me off permanently from meeting people online. My biggest problem with internet dating is that (just like with real life guys) I’m generally not interested in any of the ones I meet.
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Thursday, 24 September 2009 @ 10:18pm
skylar says:
Stargazer, my sis lives in Aurora,
If I ever have money, I’ll visit her for xmas or tgiving and drop by to see you too. It would be awesome.
(Report abusive comment)
Thursday, 24 September 2009 @ 10:18pm
Stargazer says:
Skylar, I live about 5 minutes from Aurora. I am usually home on Thanksgiving and often cook for my friends. This would be a delightful time for a visit.
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Thursday, 24 September 2009 @ 10:25pm
Stargazer says:
It just occurred to me that you would have no way to contact me.
I will send you my email address via Donna.
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Thursday, 24 September 2009 @ 10:27pm
shabbychic says:
Matt… so glad you had a wonderful time! Loved the description of the island after the rain…
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Thursday, 24 September 2009 @ 10:36pm
Stargazer says:
Yeah, this may be a little like closing the gate after the calf has gone, but I’m thinking about JAH’s comments about guys can become sociopathic after sex. Most of the guys I’ve dated have not been like this. But a few of them have (aside from THE designated sociopath). This definitely warrants a look at what I’m doing going for these guys. The pattern is that the more bonded I feel, the more the guy pulls away, acting cold and callous. I went through it with a 3-year relationship that ended with the ultimate act of cruelty–him cheating on me. I remember when I fell for him in the beginning, he was kind of a bad boy with questionable character. But he’s also had a long marriage in which he was faithful, was very successful and ambitious, and did things like buy me flowers and take me to dinner all the time. I think I really need to take another break from dating while I regroup my thoughts as far as A) whether I really want a partner in my life, and B) what I would look for in a life partner. But first I need to heal this stuff I’m going through now.
Funny, I was supposed to have a second date with a guy from the internet. I was not sure how I felt about him after our first date. So I emailed him and told him that I was pretty adamant about being friends first. So he declined the visit, stating that he wanted a girlfriend. To me, it’s like putting the cart before the horse. But I totally respect that. We are still sending friendly emails, and it would be ironic if we became friends after all.
(Report abusive comment)
Thursday, 24 September 2009 @ 10:49pm
persephone7 says:
Just coming back in to say hi and have tried to catch up on alot of your posts. Congratulations Erin, am really happy for you! Like Skylar, I was struck only by the ‘princess’ and ‘pedestal’
words which have become red flag words for me personally, won’t bore you with details…hope all goes well for you.
Haven’t heard from my friend and it’s given me a chance to just get literally healthy again after this bad cold. Still anticipate hearing and have fleeting feelings about how I could be so
‘cold’ myself not to call him and just see what was up, if HE was ok which he would probably mention. Anyway, have done pretty well with just staying focused on other things. If I allow
myself, I could get pretty confused about it again but I’m trying just not to think about it – If it’s my fault I killed off something that really had lasting merit after all these years, then I
guess I’ll have to deal with that – it isn’t like I haven’t tried to make it bloom and flourish for both of us in the past.
I had to post though mainly for Stargazer – isn’t it weird how we can feel fine about an experience one day or even for days and then those sad, hurt feelings kick in and then we’re totally
off on a tangent of what you’re expressing now – really being hard on yourself about this, and believe me I’ve been there. But I too, am older than you and gone through it enough times
now that to quote some book I read (was it Co-Dependent No More? – God, so many years ago…) ‘It doesn’t matter, it doesn’t matter, it doesn’t matter. ‘ And please know I say that with
total respect and understanding of your feelings – it’s more directed to get you to see that yes, go ahead and have your honest feelings about ‘grieving’ this relationship or this ‘outcome’
you’re believing right now – You’re entitled to feel about it however seems right to you. But don’t go there forever, please for your own sake – there will probably be some clarity coming
sometime soon, either from him or just from your own, more balanced perspective if you just give it some time. And also, respectfully – just try to think about ‘lightening up’ in how heavy
you are about things, it makes taking the day-to-day ups and downs so much easier – I’ve been WAAAY too heavy over the years and someone who a guy called a ‘mind-eater’ one time
when I was very young. We don’t have to become shallow, but why not, even as you’re having some days of feeling like crap – just allowing some good, I-love-Stargazer and I’m-ok-and
gonna-love-life-ALOT again start to surface here and there. Life really is too short – try to be a little more like a man in terms of enjoying moments, or good sex or whatever just for the
great experience it was – a decision you made to take part in and now fading off into the sunset…Just want you to be ultimately happy – I thought it might be sappy, but I did buy Louise
Hay’s CD, Learning to Love Yourself last year and would just play it in my car or studio, and she does tell you to “just STOP being so hard on yourself, just STOP it!” (And apparently she
had been down that road herself so she knows what she’s talking about.
(Report abusive comment)
Thursday, 24 September 2009 @ 10:50pm
persephone7 says:
…and what am I doing wrong that my posts look so strange- when I type them out and see them in preview they look fine and now it looks like I tried to write it as a poem?
Good grief, and I’m a total novice about using those little emoticons or whatever they are…I use my Mac for art, email and other Internet use and still have to learn what some of all your abbreviations stand for…maybe I should be brontosaurus7…
(Report abusive comment)
Thursday, 24 September 2009 @ 10:57pm
Stargazer says:
Thanks, Persephone, I will try and lighten up a little, though usually when people tell me that, it tends to pee me off. I do agree that how we think about things is very important, so I will make a concerted effort even as I’m writing this to choose happier thoughts and not beat up on myself so much. Ultimately, happiness really is a choice.
So I don’t know the whole story about your “friend” but if he really is a sociopath, there is no merit to your relationship, and you would be doing yourself a disservice to keep him in your life. From what I recall, he was behaving abusively toward you. I don’t think there is any excuse for that, and taking an abusive person back doesn’t improve their behaviors.
Either way–whether he is a sociopath or not–I have never found anything harmful about No Contact. There are no bad side effects, and it never killed even a good relationship to take a little space.
(Report abusive comment)
Thursday, 24 September 2009 @ 11:06pm
ErinBrockovich says:
Persephone……it’s the princess here…..
From high above her pedestal!
KKKEEERRRRPPPLLLLUUUUNNNNNKKKKK…….
Ouch….I just fell off! Sorry!
Yes, I realize I have so much to learn…..I have absorbed so much, and this sponge just doesn’t seem to fill up…..I love that about life!
I really am a 23 year old virgin…..like my GF’s say…
being with one ‘man’ for 28 years from such a young age….I never had the chance to learn the lessons on dating and behaviors and expectations of others etc….
All the lessons were from one unhealthy relationshit….(NOT a typo)…..
I must deprogram.
So, at 41…..(next week 42) I am back in ’school’ of life!
Oh, so much to learn!
I have a GF that I learn from too…..through her life, dating her marriage to a sex addict.
I have always been good at picking up on others lessons….BUT still….some I seem to have to live to learn!
Anyhow….I’m glad your recovering from the ’swine flu’ thing…..We all had it too last week…..it wipes you out! I have to say, since my BIG C…I haven’t been sick with anything else…..so I can’t complain……
It got me too last week, really sucks!
Take good care and thanks for keeping me grounded…..it was painful getting pushed off that pedestal!
I PERSONALLY THOUGHT I HAD EARNED THAT SPOT!!!
XXOO
PS….yes, I did notice your ‘poetry’….don’t know what the deal is with that?
I guess …..your a poet and didn’t know it!
Oh stop!
(Report abusive comment)
Thursday, 24 September 2009 @ 11:26pm
skylar says:
What is amazing to me:
I’ve never had too many friends, especially women friends, most of my few friends have been guys, gay or straight . I’m picky about who I relate to. Furthermore the last 25 years, my P isolated me from most people, but there haven’t been too many people that i have been impressed with enough to really care or try to be friends with.
But ALL OF YOU PEOPLE ARE AMAZING. WONDERFUL, AMAZING KIND SINCERE PEOPLE!
I think maybe N-supplies are the best people on earth. the problem is that we’ve been busy taking care of N’s instead of each other.
Having been isolated for so long, it’s hard to judge, but it really seems like all the best people on earth are right here, on LF.
I’m reading “The Art of Selfishness”.
I really like it and recommend it. This is the first book, that I’ve read that focuses on N-supplies rather than the N’s. I think I “get” the N and his problems. Now I need to “get” me, what makes me tick and how to make me a better person.
(Report abusive comment)
Thursday, 24 September 2009 @ 11:41pm
justabouthealed says:
Skylar…I read that book about 40 years ago. It helped me a lot, but apparently not enough! LOL! Lots of great advice in there, I still have my copy and still reread it.
Stargazer…anger can be good!
Stargazer, Oct . 15, 16, 17 I will be staying N and a little west of Denver. On the 18th I go east. I could maybe meet you that evening before I fly out the next morning. I will have a rental car. I will tell Donna she can send my email address to you. Write to me if you want, we can see what we can work out! I’m there for work.
Hey…I said to make some girlfriends! Maybe it will be me!
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Friday, 25 September 2009 @ 12:46am
skylar says:
JAH,
maybe it did help you and that’s why you are further along the road than many of us.
the book is great but my copy is a library copy. It really does seem to be a book that should be kept around and re-read every once in a while.
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Friday, 25 September 2009 @ 5:58am
persephone7 says:
Erin, you’re too good… hope new guy and dating ok and you were just kidding about the pedestal, sometimes you never know what you do to be knocked off of it, having
been that wonderful (supposedly) myself. Stargazer, peed off or not, hope you’re feeling better.
Gotta go to work, still NC and feeling bit lighter though I haven’t heard that ring tone yet…See you!
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Friday, 25 September 2009 @ 9:59am
Stargazer says:
JAH, looks like Donna made an “introduction” but I don’t know if you actually got my email address. I didn’t get yours yet. I gave her permission. I will be around and probably working those three days but will have some time in the evenings. Would be great to meet you!
Skylar, I have put “The Art of Selfishness” on my list of books to request from the library. I have a few Stephen King novels to read first that are due next month. Also, someone recommended a short story about a woman going through a horrible break up. By chance she meets a herpetologist (they study reptiles) and they become friends. He teaches her the way reptiles think and act, and she is able to use those teachings about the reptile motivation for survival to learn how to survive, herself. I can’t wait to read that one, being the snake lover I am.
I am trying to get 6 free counseling sessions through the employee assistance program at my job. I hope it helps.
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Friday, 25 September 2009 @ 11:49am
candyharlau says:
i made ‘friends’ with a guy that works at a dog grooming salon. he befriended me, and my dog that i adopted, just after i split with my X-P.
this man is now trying to control me and my dog. very manipulative. anything from telling me when to pack for vacation, to shut up and stop talking about the X-P, telling me he knows how to take care of the dog and i need to listen to him…how to train the dog. he has had every job, knows everything about everything, had all this money, now has none, but wants to buy a house in my neighborhood. every week he has a different story about a new job, a new career, etc.
he really ticked me off/tried to control me just before i left on vacation, telling me what to do, when to do it, putting words in my mouth, or stating things that he made up (like i was going to give my neighbors the key to the house…which i never said anything about)…then he had the audacity to hang-up when i spoke up to him.
most of the time he calls after 10 pm. gets me so stressed out i can barely sleep.
i’m learning much quicker now….HE DOESN’T HAVE TO BE A ‘LOVE INTEREST’ TO ACT THIS WAY, YOU CAN HAVE A GUY FRIEND THAT CAN ACT JUST LIKE A PSYCHOPATH.
last nite was the final straw…he said he was going to visit friends on the other coast his birthday, earlier this week. then last nite he said that he was going to go to a restaurant in town for a big steak. i could hear him hinting at ‘aren’t you taking me out for my birthday.’
Everything he says and does is either manipulative or lies.
I don’t want him near me, my home, or my dog now.
I have determined him to be a P or a S!
I’ve gone NC effective today.
Wolf in sheep’s clothing.
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Friday, 25 September 2009 @ 4:04pm
skylar says:
Candy, get rid of him. You know how right? BE BORING.
BLAND. Channel the personality of a rock. teach your dog boring tricks. LOL.
BTW, how long did it take before he began to act this way? Just wondering, so I can keep my P-radar up and not be surprised if a guy friend begins to act this way.
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Friday, 25 September 2009 @ 4:11pm
kim frederick says:
Candy, He wants to buy a house in your neighborhood? Extra red flag! Some of these creeps are truley dangerous! Be careful!
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Friday, 25 September 2009 @ 5:21pm
justabouthealed says:
Stargazer, I think you have my email, it just looks weird. Starts with auto.
I just sent you an email. Look for it, it might go to your spam or something. The subject says from Justaboutehealed, I think!
Skylar…I’m not further along…just further along on NC. I was in the fetal position back when all this hit me. I’m really starting to feel totally like my old self. It is wonderful!
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Friday, 25 September 2009 @ 7:43pm
Stargazer says:
Justabouthealed, I think you need to change your user name to Alreadyhealed.
Yes, as you can see, I did get your email. I was confused about the “introduction”. Poor Donna, putting up with my “specialness”. lol
Okay, opinions needed please!
I pet sat last night for some bunnies and kittehs. It was so peaceful over there that I just stayed the night and meditated. It sounds weird, but they are a happily married couple, and I think their peaceful and mature vibes fill the house. My head really cleared out of all the negativity and self put-downs, and I got clear that I just need to have closure with the boy.
I composed a closure letter in my head, which I wrote out when I got home today. I don’t know if I’ll send it to him or not–that’s what I need your opinions on. It basically tells him that I ended up having the same hurt reaction to his behaviors this time around as I did two years ago, and that I just need to have closure this time because I don’t want to ever put myself in that situation again. I did not blame him or spew any anger. I just don’t want to let 2 more years go by before I get closure, like I did before. He would be writing me in a few months, and I’d be distant, etc……I just want to be clear and get it over with. I don’t want to play any games or have any loose ends. Even though he is young and immature, I know he is trying to improve his behaviors and work on being less selfish (from what he told m. (Though it’s hard to imagine he could be so oblivious). So I think he would appreciate the feedback. What do you all think? Should I send the email letter?
Hugs,
Star
P.S. I am hesitant to send the letter because A) What if he really could care less? I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt that he’s just oblivious but would want to know. And B) This will put a permanent nail in the coffin of our affair. Part of me (I’m ashamed to say) doesn’t want it to end.
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Saturday, 26 September 2009 @ 11:12am
justabouthealed says:
Stargazer……pick the answer you like best, I’m not sure what is best!
1) Dr. Phil says figure out the MINIMAL thing you need to do to get closure, do it, and then …it is done.
2) If part of you doesn’t want it to end, then what are you going to do if he writes back and says the “right” things. I don’t think it would be good to get in the position to be hurt by him again. You deserve someone who will treat you RIGHT. Without a letter.
3) Put the letter aside. Not for 2 years, but for 30 days. See if you still want or need to send it then.
4) put it aside and if he contacts you, don’t respond, or send it then…depending.
5) Hopefully the letter will give you closure without sending it. That seems the more powerful thing to do.
Hugs!!!
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Saturday, 26 September 2009 @ 1:01pm
skylar says:
Stargazer,
you are looking for closure because you still aren’t sure what happened. like you said, you aren’t clear.
Will the letter, after you send it, give you that? How will you know that he is being honest with you in a letter, when you couldn’t get that in person?
I’m not saying that he is a P, but remember that narcissism is a spectrum, he could be n-lite. To feel confused about your relationship–when the words don’t match the actions–is a red-flag.
Like I’ve said before, when it came to sex and romance, my P liked to take me to the peak of a the metaphorical mountain JUST SO HE COULD PUSH ME OFF. That push took the form of either picking a fight or better yet, disappearing the next day or for several days. In your case, you are remembering romantic actions and now getting the disappearing act. Intentional or not, it’s still psychological warfare. Someone like that, I could not trust the response to your letter.
When you first told us about your planned date with him, I really thought you were going to be casual with it. That may have been your intent, but in the back of your mind you were hoping for more. Maybe not marriage, but comfort and validation. I’m so sorry that you are so hurt. It sucks. But I would not send the letter unless you are REALLY sure that no matter what the outcome, you will be happy with it.
When I was 20 years old and had broken up with the P for the 2nd or 3rd time, I wrote him a letter. very heartfelt. I was going to give it to him so I could MAKE HIM UNDERSTAND HOW HE HURT ME. It seemed important for closure. Suddenly I panicked and burned it. My gut told me it was dangerous to give him the letter, it knew better than I did. My gut had earlier warned me to burn my diary, I don’t know why. My gut also told me to read the book, “People of the Lie” but in secret and not let him know. When I say, “my gut”, I mean a feeling of panic, anxiety and fear come over me. I never feared him or believed anything bad about him. I loved him. But these panics came over me and I had to obey. Thank God that I did. Now I realize that his goal was to know every little intimate thing about my psyche so that he could destroy it. I protected that, when I had panic and fear. A letter is almost more intimate than sex. It is hard copy of your most intimate thoughts. Those thoughts are YOU. and you should not throw pearls to swine.
I really like JAH’s advice.
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Saturday, 26 September 2009 @ 1:30pm
Stargazer says:
JAH and Skylar,
Wow, we are all in agreement here! I decided just now while I was in the bathtub that I would not send it. But thanks for the validation–looks like we are all on the same page. I’m glad I wrote it though. If he ever contacts me down the line, and I am in a vulnerable or depressed place, I will reread the letter before responding. Otherwise I will not contact him. I do feel as if I’m moving past this and can look back and enjoy the memory. But I will NOT do it again!!!!!
I cannot thank all of you enough for your thoughtful and sage advice and for letting me work through this in a public forum. We ALL deserve the best in life, you know?
I’m going to visit the cat shelter where I used to volunteer and maybe start volunteering there again. I’m putting on make-up and also taking myself out to dinner.
YOU GUYS ROCK!!
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Saturday, 26 September 2009 @ 2:05pm
Stargazer says:
I also wanted to share a dream I had last night at the petsitting home I stayed at. I dreamt that a man came back into my life that I dated for 3 months in 2002 or 2003 (don’t remember which). He was marriage-minded (in real life), but we weren’t a good match and split up before we got too serious. In the dream our paths crossed and we started hanging out again, and I could tell he was possibly thinking of me for a longterm relationship. He wasn’t gorgeous and exciting (like the young boy) but I had a good feeling being around him. In the dream, he had an 11-y.o. daughter (he has no kids in real life). The daughter was confiding in me about her insecurities about her body and being flat-chested, etc. I told her that I went through the same thing at her age, and just reassured her. This was a bonding experience, and it made me feel closer to both of them.
The gist I get from that dream is that that is what it feels like to have a more mature relationship with a man and to possibly be part of a family. It was a good feeling, and I will start looking for that kind of relationship instead of these young, exciting studs. LOL
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Saturday, 26 September 2009 @ 2:10pm
kim frederick says:
Star, You rock, too. I’m glad you’re feeling better! I think you should put the letter away, too.
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Saturday, 26 September 2009 @ 2:12pm
Stargazer says:
Thank you, kim. After the last date with “the boy” my gut told me not to talk to him. This went on for 2 years. There was a reason for this, and that same reason still applies. I will NOT send! There would be no point in it.
Hugs,
Star
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Saturday, 26 September 2009 @ 2:22pm
skylar says:
Wow Stargazer, that’s a break through in your consciousness! You have felt something new and now you want it.
Possibly it could not have happened without the crisis brought on by the young stud. Amazing how God moves us along to a new place when we are ready. The crisis was “growing pains”, letting go of your old ideals so you could have new ones.
In the book, “The Art of Selfishness” it says that you have to create a crisis sometimes so you can move forward. That crisis is equal to facing reality and allowing reality to rule. Reality always wins in the end, the longer we put it off, the more painful our metamorphis will be and the bigger the price we pay in terms of time and losses.
It’s possible that we sometimes create a crisis subconciously. Maybe you knew that this boy was a danger to your psyche and that’s why you invited him over. LF was here for you, so it was sort of safe, you knew we would catch you if you tripped.
Reality and truth is what the narcissist hates the most. They are all lies and veneer.
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Saturday, 26 September 2009 @ 2:33pm
Stargazer says:
Skylar, I so agree with everything you just said. Also, this site has been better (and more cost effective) for me than any therapist.
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Saturday, 26 September 2009 @ 2:41pm
Stargazer says:
You know, I realized last night that I was also taking on some of the boy’s judgments about how I need a 12 step program (just because he’s in one). I was seeing myself through his eyes, and it wasn’t pretty, because he does not see me for who I am. I think he only saw me as someone needy and someone to run from. Truly his loss!
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Saturday, 26 September 2009 @ 2:45pm
skylar says:
Stargazer,
that is the most true thing of all. HIS LOSS. He can’t see the awesomeness of you, that just shows how dumb he is. And we don’t need stupid in our lives, that’s for sure.
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Saturday, 26 September 2009 @ 2:53pm
candyharlau says:
Skylar & Kim -
Thanks for your response to my comment from yesterday, and for your support.
I don’t think it took this joker very long to start clinging to me. I believe it’s always been there, but I didn’t notice it the first few weeks due to the fact that i was in pain from the X-P…he appeared to be helpful! what he has turned out to be is just another S or P. Reeling me in. He disgusts me even more than the P, because this one knew exactly what i was dealing with and really took advantage. EeeehhWWWWW.
I’m thankful that I woke up a whole lot sooner. Just gives me the creeps thinking he was in my house. What else don’t i know?
Tonite, this joker left a very bizarre message. Mumbled some words. I called him back. He said oh it was nothing, he didn’t want to talk, and he would call me tomorrow. Why the hxll did he call? Attention.?!?
THAT IS IT. The game is over. NC. Sick MF.
I need to stay home..or stay away from men. I don’t have any interest at all. My girlfriends are trying to screw anything they can, and I’m running away from any man that looks my way.
Does this shit ever end??? Do i have a bullseye on my chest/back?????????? The only saving grace is i’m seeing it a whole lot sooner AND saying no more. This is not acceptable.
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Saturday, 26 September 2009 @ 7:39pm
kim frederick says:
Candy, ther is absolutely nothing wrong with taking some time off. Get to know yourself, what makes you tick. Learn to identify these creeps,(it looks like you’re doing a pretty good job, already.) All this will assure you of having a happier, healthier, relationship in the future.
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Saturday, 26 September 2009 @ 7:49pm
Stargazer says:
Candy, this guy sounds creepy. I hope he doesn’t stalk you after you go NC. You may want to phase him out by just having some excuses or telling him you need some time alone before going complete NC.
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Saturday, 26 September 2009 @ 8:45pm
skylar says:
Hi Candy, I agree w/Stargazer about him getting worse w/NC, that’s why I said to bore him away. Get HIM to lose interest in YOU. They really can’t stand boring.
My problem with my xP is that he has my house in his targets, and money is never boring. Also, he has invested 25 years into fantasizing about how he would destroy me, so it will be difficult to get him to go away without actually dying. Even if I died he’d probably dig up my body and desecrate my grave. YES, he IS that sick.
So the sooner you bore him away the better.
I’ve been wondering why we attract them too. I think that they can spot a good and nieve person. I think its because our facial expressions are obviously unguarded. In other words, we don’t put on phony smiles or pouts or frowns.
I got this idea because I’ve been shooting videos recently and I did a video of a wedding. The bride is a young woman, the daughter of an old friend. I was watching her face on the video and had to watch some parts over and over as I did the editing. The bride gives off an overwhelming feeling of goodness and sweetness but her groom seemed like a P. So I watched and studied WHY they seemed this way, running the video over again and I determined that it’s because she is as unguarded in her facial expressions as a child.
Every expression was absolutely genuine, there was nothing false at any moment in the video. Because of my P radar, I realized that this woman is a sitting duck for a P and she doesn’t even know it. I can only wish her luck, but I think it’s too late…
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Saturday, 26 September 2009 @ 10:12pm
Stargazer says:
Skylar,
Your xP sounds like a real winner from the planet ToHellAndBack. My xP was not nasty like this. He just lied and played a bunch of games until I dumped his a$$. When he was gone, he was pretty much gone. There was a little stalking at a reptile show , and a nightmare here and there, but for the most part, he was pretty much gone. Hallelujah! The discard was really complete. It was as if I didn’t exist any more, once I figured out his game. I never thought I’d say this, but it’s a good thing I don’t have any money. Therefore, no P’s are hovering around trying to take it.
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Saturday, 26 September 2009 @ 10:46pm
Stargazer says:
Yes, Candy, especially if there’s a chance he will move into your neighborhood and become one of your neighbors (which you have no control over) better phase him out slowly with some excuse. “I’ve had a lot on my mind and need some time alone.” “I’ve been tired lately and don’t feel very social.” Sorry, I can’t hang out with you tonight….I have a pounding migraine.” You get the idea.
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Saturday, 26 September 2009 @ 10:48pm
skylar says:
Stargazer,
It’s not just the money. The money is the reason why he hung out so long -25 years. Now it’s the principal of the thing. He is pissed because I’m still alive AND I caused him many narcissist injuries. His ego can’t take the failure of his omnipotent self having failed to drive me to suicide. Now he must prove himself.
Before I left I kept noticing that my sleeping pills were disappearing – just a few at a time. He was telling everyone he knew that I was a pill popping, alcoholic and that I was going to overdose. Now I know that he was going to spike my wine with the stolen pills once he had stashed enough of them. Then he could be the grieving bf.
I know the stuff I’m telling you makes him seem like he is really crafty, but he isn’t. If you also keep in mind that these plans are the result of 25 YEARS of plotting, non-stop (since he never works, there’s nothing else for him to think about), that puts him in the “special needs” IQ range. It didn’t take me 25 years to figure out what he was thinking, it only took one book. The book that explained that evil existed on earth. It’s the piece of the puzzle that I was missing.
When I look back on his obsession with satanic possession, exorcism, UFO’s, neanderthal DNA, nostradomaus, crop circles, edgar cayce etc… and then the bizarre looks and reactions when I suggested that his snoring sounded like possession and when I joked about him being a pedophile AND HE FREAKED OUT. When he said he was a vampire, when he told me that my trojan P’s BIL’s problem was ENVY and that I lacked EMPATHY. I’m getting a picture of a person who understands that he is DIFFERENT, but doesn’t really know how. I’m pretty sure he has embraced the idea that Satan is his mentor.
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Saturday, 26 September 2009 @ 11:25pm
candyharlau says:
Stargazer, Skylar and Kim
i don’t think the P will move into the neighborhood, for he doesn’t have any money, and he’s expecting me to do the research on the foreclosed house because he doesn’t have a computer!
do i need to tell him there is a library in town? yes, i’m a bitch! it’s about time!!!
i’m so tired of playing mamma to any man.
for some reason, my X-P is on my mind a bit. he seems to have resurfaced in my thoughts. all the deviant things he said and did. i’m not sure why…….this too scares me as i’m sending this out to the universe. yes, i’m trying to stop the thoughts.
i realize i have a lot of healing to do. it’s only been three months with NC.
what’s really tough is that my friends/acquiantances no longer serve me. actually, i realize that most of them are not friends, they were just there when i was partying. Not that i was a big partier, but now that i have only a glass or two of wine AND i’ve stepped back and am viewing everything differently. i don’t like what i see. i’m also LISTENING a lot more, not just plowing ahead hoping for the best.
this whole process is like a spiritual cleansing of sorts…as here i am at 50 yo and i’m starting all over. it’s exciting but also very scarey. i was brought-up to trust and believe people are good. now i’ve learned boundaries and…..
i’m also coming to terms with why i have never married. most of the men in my life have been narcisstic or S or Ps! Sad, but true. I ended each of the relationships, most of them after i had been in them far too long. Fortunately, i have always maintained my own home, am handy around the house, and have been financial secure. thank God. These guys have come and gone, but the devastation is far reaching.
this last P was a professional in his field. he did me in. Just how bad does it have to get? I think I get it now! (i was a victim of child abuse – my mother started it all…and i continued)
i’m sad and grieve for what never was.
(((hugs))) to everyone
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Sunday, 27 September 2009 @ 8:39am
kim frederick says:
Morning, Candy, I’m fifty, too. All my relationships have been with this kind, too. I’ve been giving myself a time out for the last two years. I’t’s been a very peacefull time and very good for me. Yes, I feel the sadness, too. So much wasted time and energy! Shudder. At least I’m not mired in
all that unhappiness, today. You do have a lot to be grateful, for. Try not to be too sad. Do something nice for yourself, today.
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Sunday, 27 September 2009 @ 9:36am
Stargazer says:
Candy,
Your post made me think of of my snakes and how they shed their old skin every so often to reveal the beautiful new skin underneath. Sounds like you are shedding your old skin and about to reveal a beautiful new skin underneath. This is actually a good thing! You don’t need to worry because once you’ve gotten the needy, using people out of your life and realized why you invited them in in the first place, you can make room for some genuine friends.
I just said no to a needy friend this week, too. I’ve already done a lot to help her out, but I had to guard my own energy. I started seeing a pattern that she takes more than she gives. While I don’t keep score per se, once I see the pattern, I’m done. Though there are times when people need to lean on you and vice versa, friendships, IMO, should be reciprocal.
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Sunday, 27 September 2009 @ 10:02am
Stargazer says:
Skylar,
Your ex is the stuff that Stephen King novels are made of! The one that comes to mind is “Rose Madder” which I mention in another thread. I’m so glad you have survived and didn’t give him what he wants. Do you feel afraid of him?
Though I have never had this experience with a man I’ve dated, my parents were so narcissistic and life-denying that I believe they didn’t want my sister or me to be happy or prosper. In spite of the constant feelings of enslavement and abuse by them, I managed to do some very cool things in my early adult life that they had never done. For instance, I spent a year studying and traveling in Europe. Their response was jealousy, guilt, and focusing attention back on themselves. Trying to live a happier life than my parents has been like breaking out of a mold they set for me, and it’s not easy. One of the reasons I have managed to avoid suicide over the years is that I know that’s what my parents would have wanted.
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Sunday, 27 September 2009 @ 10:16am
skylar says:
Candy,
yes this crisis of finding out that P’s exist does precipitate something that feels very cleansing and very spiritual. It is the most profound thing I have ever experienced. It’s like having been looking at everything in 2D all my life and now it is 3D. I now “get” so many things that perplexed me, about my xP, my parents, my family and the people you read about in the paper everyday.
Stargazer,
the snake analogy is a good one. The snake sheds the old skin so that it can grow and it always looks better once it does. It’s not that the old skin wasn’t just as nice, when it was new, it’s just that now it’s the wrong size, a bit rigid and sort of dull from wear and tear. In order to grow it gets rid of that skin to find that it already had a nice new one to take its place. The P’s never get rid of the old skin. They wear it to death. The skin of infantile manipulation and envy as a survival mechanism looks good on an infant. But these P’s can’t get past it. That skin, which no longer fits, is crippling them as they try to fit into it. They contort and twist themselves. they must ache all the time trying to squeeze into that horrible little diaper and tee-shirt outfit, which is now so ragged and dull that it makes them look ridiculous. Yet, they are afraid to take it off and let the new skin shine through. How glad I am that I’m not a P.
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Sunday, 27 September 2009 @ 10:36am
skylar says:
Stargazer,
Hmm. I didn’t see your post regarding Steven King, until just now.
anyway, yes, I’m afraid of him. I’ve never known anyone so set on being evil.
He used to play in rock and roll bands and they were always trying to get signed with a label. One day, right about the time I met him, his band was approached to sign. The day of the meeting, he didn’t show up. The other two guys never understood how he could have ruined the opportunity of a lifetime to be rich and famous.
I know why. It’s the famous part he didn’t want. He wants to lurk in the shadows and not be recognized. He wants to torture women and then slither back into anonymity. He has often told me he doesn’t want to accidentally get on the news or in any media where some of his “drug customers” will recognize him. But the truth is much darker than that.
The only way I can think of to solve this problem is to use his own illusions of grandeur against him. It will be tricky, but his brain got him into this, his brain will have to walk him out of it – if at all possible.
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Sunday, 27 September 2009 @ 11:39am
justabouthealed says:
Stargazer….Same with my mom. She actually tried to ruin every special moment of my life, like my wedding. When I succeeded, she was never proud. If my sister and I became too close, she got jealous. One of the last things she said to me before she died was “brave girl” which was one of the few times she ever gave me any sort of praise.
But somewhere along the half decade+ of our time together, I stopped telling her about my life, and things went much better then. You just can’t be real with some people, even if they are your parents.
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Sunday, 27 September 2009 @ 11:57am
justabouthealed says:
Candy….but you are amazing. Look how many times you’ve been targeted, and while I know the pain has been overwhelming, you did manage to protect yourself and not get sucked into marriage, or losing your house, etc. You are stronger than you know. Keep it up!
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Sunday, 27 September 2009 @ 12:00pm
Stargazer says:
This will probably be the most useless and indulgent post on the thread. I went hiking today and couldn’t help thinking about the boy still. Then I heard the Cheryl Crow song “Favorite Mistake” on the radio on the way home. It captures the mood exactly!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....ature=fvst
So of course I had to come home and learn the song on my guitar. It’s not a total waste though, because I’m thinking about getting back into singing and playing guitar now. I think if you can turn your love mistakes into music, it’s a good thing. Alanis Morrissette won a grammy on her sour love affair.
Also, since the affair, I think about sex all the time. When I passed by guys on the hike, I looked into their eyes and assessed how sexual I thought they might be. Is this normal? I hope I’m not turning into a P.
Hope everyone had a good day.
Hugs,
Star
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Sunday, 27 September 2009 @ 8:28pm
skylar says:
Star,
that song also strikes a chord with me: my favorite mistake, says it all.
And I love alanis morrisette, especially her song “thank you” It is the most healing song for people like us. It offers thanks for all the bad things that happen because the crisis begins the turning point in our lives.
Thank you India
Thank you terror
Thank you disillusionment
Thank you frailty
Thank you consequence
Thank you thank you silence
The moment I let go of it was
The moment I got more than I could handle
The moment I jumped off of it was
The moment I touched down
http://video.canadiancontent.n.....k-you.html
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Monday, 28 September 2009 @ 12:24am
skylar says:
NewLily, I don’t know if you are reading this thread, but I wanted to say that maybe you could imagine the removal of the tumor as being the removal of the final remnants of the empty suit. Your terror, disillusionment, frailty, consequence and the silence from your p-family, caused the moment when you let go of them and touched down, determined to live in a more authentic life that takes care of you first. So this surgery will be a rebirth for you. It will be like an initiation rite, where you begin to live a malignancy-free existance. I don’t know what your real name is but maybe you should change it to New Lily in real life. I’m thinking that maybe one day I’ll change my name to Skylar, it means protection through knowledge.
I trust in God that you will gain new health and optimism.
xxoo
skylar
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Monday, 28 September 2009 @ 12:46am
Stargazer says:
I also love Alanis Morrissette. I auditioned for a band on “You Oughtta Know”, even though I’d never actually practiced it before–so much did I feel that song after a really bad break-up. She rocks!
Candy, you may notice you are angry about all these needy people in your life. The anger is good. It’s showing you how you were taken advantage of in the past, and it’s helping you to set boundaries with people. However, with narcissists, it’s usually not a good idea to try and confront them (not that you were planning on it). I have tried this and they cannot hear it. It’s best to deal with the anger and need for validation privately and just distance yourself from them. That’s what makes them N’s–they don’t care about your feelings.
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Monday, 28 September 2009 @ 9:48am
justabouthealed says:
stargazer…I was just looking at this site last night. http://www.homestar.org/bryannan/checklst.html The sexual thoughts …I had thoughts like that but only when I was around the P. I swear we DO get “emotional contagion” from them. It is so easy to start picking up their traits. I think the boy was more of a P than you realize. Maybe.
Stargazer and Skylar…Ugh! Those lyrics still have some caring and longing in them. I hope that goes away for you both soon. I remember that, but it DOES go away, the more you accept that these guys are FREAKS of nature, that they totally do NOT get emotions, or caring or love no matter what words they say.
I used to look at the friends the P had both in high school and what I know of in his present world and think “What is he doing hanging around with such weirdos and sickos?” Of course he has his professional facade, but in his “close” associates…UCK! Now I know, it is because he is just like them, they just don’t bother to wear a mask. In that way, perhaps they are less yucky than him!
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Monday, 28 September 2009 @ 11:36am
Stargazer says:
Everyone,
I had a session with a good counselor today. She helped me put the visit with the boy into perspective and to start owning my own feelings. The truth is even more painful than blaming him. It’s about how I myself shut down and went into abandonment during the visit. Though it’s hard to look at my own stuff, it feels more genuine and helpful. I am seeing the whole thing in a different way, and I’ve stopped making him be the bad guy here. The counselor reminded me that the relationship with him is not just about me and my feelings. He is also going through his own process and probably got a little freaked out, which is usually why guys pull away, especially young ones. All of this venom I was seething about him not keepng in touch with me, she pointed out that I also haven’t reached out to him either. This is true. He would probably be glad to be my friend if I reached out a little. He may possibly be feeling guilty or overwhelmed and just not know how to express it. I am assuming all kinds of things about his motives. I really don’t know what is going on with him. In any event, I regard it as a learning experience and a jumping off point to start to do some more of my own healing. I think my unresolved issues have driven a number of healthy men away, and I can’t deny any responsibility in this one too. It hurts and it sucks, but it’s the truth about me.
I’m hoping to continue on in counseling so I can actually do that moral inventory that is the 4th step and have someone to share it with. It’s really important to me because I want to really change myself. I cannot keep blaming guys for hurting me, when I have a big part in this.
JAH, Do you really feel it’s evil or a psychopathic trait to be in touch with my sexuality? It actually feels pretty good, though I don’t especially feel the need to act it out. I pretty much shut it down for a year after the emotional rape by the P. It’s nice to have it back and to have my sexual confidence back. I honestly don’t think the boy is psychopathic; I just think he is a young boy.
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Tuesday, 29 September 2009 @ 12:19am
blueskies says:
Hi guys:) this is also a little off topic, but I need a bit of a pep talk today.
I think this might get waffly and fragmented too so be warned….
I have been feeling like I have been really making progress over the last couple of months although its been tough going, but last night and this morning… I feel absolutely rotten. I feel a total fraud.
Now, I have not slept well over the last few days, had some bad dreams, and so I am very tired and I guess that could be ultimately where all this is coming from…BUT
there is an issue coming up, and that is the person who I would describe as my best friend has met someone else.
It is very complicated for me because I love him very much (which sounds like then it shouldnt be – I should be happy right?)
We were together from the time my son was around 8 months old until just before I met the S/P. The relationship I had with him was wonderful, we had magical times, sweet calm days and years, but in the end me wanting to take it further and his inability to commit ( in that he was a real companion, husband, confidant, in practice…but not in theory if that makes sense, he DOES it, but cant sign for it.*sigh of exasperation!*where as most people are full of promises but dont follow through – he is the opposite..) put so much pressure on us and unable to reconcile our opposite ‘needs’ we became ‘friends’.
‘Friends’ where one person is still in love with the other but has resolved she would be happy ‘just to sit next’(metaphorical) to this man for the rest of her life, because having him in her life was the most nourishing thing she had experienced, and besides, it wasnt her, he didnt want anyone else, he was just an eternal bachelor. And ‘friends’ where the ‘eternal batchelor’ had no other option because simply ’sitting next to this woman’ for the rest of his life was not enough for the her during the relationship. (you still following this;)
Now since the three years we’ve been ‘freinds’, he has been the BEST at every turn,consistant with me consistant with my son.
But my ‘lonliness’ (so not so happy just to hold hands forever blue -huh?)and ‘need’ for ‘more’ lead me to want to date and I ended up with the S/P.
Throughout the whole time with the s/p he didnt waiver in his affection and support and still hasnt, and there was me off having a fling with a sociopath and leaning on him for support! Which is where my ultimate point to this gets REALLY crappy… he has now met someone else.(after three years mind, I cant really blame the man, and its early days..oops I think I am going to vomit just typing it…)
And I am DEVESTATED. you know why?
because it makes it ME.
Its not that he doesnt want a relationship, or that he cant commit to an intimate relationship its because he cant commit to one with me.(this is the point where I snot uncontrollably all over the keyboard.)
and I dont blame him. My shit STINKS. My drama filled selfish shit STINKS!
I feel like a wretched, selfish, damaged person, who is just about to loose something PROFOUNDLY and DEEPLY important to her (that she actually may have lost a long time ago) and I have NO idea how to handle it.
This sounds like it should be directed to a teenage magazine agony aunt not LF-ers, but help please. advice or a smack around the head, either would be good.
P.S Blueskies quote from previous posts: “oooooh look at me, I’m so marvellous, I dont need a relationship right now, I am happy with the close friendship I have,untill I’m aaaaaaall better and can find a healthy one, la-de-dah” hey blue, what a crock.
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Tuesday, 29 September 2009 @ 4:08am
geminigirl says:
I was thinking about my 45 year old daughter today, wondering if I missed her or not.{Ive been NC with her now for 3 months
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Tuesday, 29 September 2009 @ 6:47am
geminigirl says:
Sorry, my blog just disappeared into cyberspace! Dont know why! Thats the beginning of it, above. What I was trying to say was, I was feeling a bit low this evening, wondering if I really missed my daughter whom Ive been NC with for 3 months now. {One of my 2 boundaries was JUST ONE apology, for all the mean rotten and cruel things she has done to me over the last 30 or so years, but I guess its not going to happen.} Therefore, I have to come to terms with perhaps never seeing her again. She is 45 now,and Karma is catching up with her, fast. She left her long suffering husband 3 years a go. before, they had the 3 kids week about, which was very unsettling for the poor kids. She lost yet another good job, {she is in Publishing,} which meant, after I stopped baling her out financially, she lost her $500 a week rented flat.
Her husband now has full custody of the kids,”till she sorts herself out, whenever that may be”, he tells me.He is MUCH the better parent, so Im so relieved about that. She has no car, around $30,000 in credit card and other debt,no saving, no assetts of any kind. She is temporarily sharing a flat with a friend, and working at whatever publishing jobs she can get, writing articles, etc. She has thrown away a loving husband, a loving Mum, {me},good friends who have been use d by her once too often. Shes till looks good, but in 5 years, will she still look as good and be able to “pull’ suckers in as easily? She discards “friends” like used lolly wrappers, and moves on, her new friends seem to get younger and younger.
I have to remind myself I now owe her nothing more. A loving daughter would not have wrecked my old home, wrecked my studio, beaten me up, conned me out of thousands of dollars, lied , conned and cheated me for years.
A loving daughter would have said sorry, for banning me from her wedding, but inviting my ex husband and my present husband{naturaly he didnt go!} a loving daughter would have visited me in hospital when I had to have several eye operations, and ended up losing most of the sight in one eye. A loving daughter would have expressed some sympathy re an op. I had to have for a condition called a rectocele,{ballooned rectum} last year, instead of saying “Yuck!! do you mind! I dont want to hear about it, its disgusting! A loving daughter could have turned up to help when both my husband and I were hospitalised with severe flu, an dcouldnt even summon up energy to fill a kettle! She didnt come.I could go on and on. I have to sadly accept I have been nothing more than a cash cow to her for years, and that she doesnt really care for me a jot. I am so blessed and lucky to have my darling new “adult Kids” from Iran, who shower us with love, hugs, kisses, and affection. I still have a vestige of love for my girls, but its a sad love, not a glad love.
GemXX
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Tuesday, 29 September 2009 @ 7:13am
skylar says:
blueskies,
this seems complicated to me. It’s very hard to see it clearly from this far away.
I don’t understand how you could both be available and be such close friends but not committed lovers when you actually DID love him.
I suspect that you were acting as a veneer for him. He wanted to experience fatherhood and a wife without actually making the commitment. He knew you could be talked into that relationship and you were. Now he’s met someone that is going to provide him with something else to experience and he will do what he needs to (the minimal) to experience that.
So, step back from the emotional cookie jar, keep your composure, be graceful and generous. Then meet this woman and find out what she has to offer him. I get the feeling that this will not lead to marriage. But you should be keeping notes and watching his behavior just as you would if you were dating him. Because he will come back to you as a friend and this is an opportunity to see how he behaves in a “love” relationship.
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Tuesday, 29 September 2009 @ 7:14am
kim frederick says:
Oh Blueskies. I’m so, so sorry. He sounds like a pretty good guy, but did he know you were still in love with him? Was this a friends with benefits relationship?
I wish I could take your pain away. But STOP blaming youself!! I know that Oxy would “boink” you for that, and probably still will.
Have you told him how you feel, now? I know you did in the past, but have you told him recently?
Nothin about you, stinks. You are all those good thing you believed about yourself, youv’e just been hit with set-back.
Now you need to decide what you’re going to do about it.
I,m sending you white light.
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Tuesday, 29 September 2009 @ 7:15am
ErinBrockovich says:
Blue:
Oh girl…..i’m sorry your feeling bad!
You know we have good days and bad days……we have been through so much and we are absorbing a lifetime in several moments.
It’s overwhelming, and we need to understand …….that life continues to move along….that darn clock doesn’t stop ticking for any of us…..
As we heal from our wounds, from a S……other parts of our lives are still happening……for some reason we believe we can only handle one ‘facet’ at a time……
Your friend is here to remind you……..life continues……
Do not feel as if you have lost your friend……..
And always remember that people enter into our lives for a
REASON AND A SEASON!
His new ‘love interest’ is bringing up feelings in you you thought you could control…….
One of your feelings is LOSS of control……loss of the safety net…….
AND THAT IS OKAY!
It’s natural……
But realize……..he is on a journey too……we all must find happiness in our lives……..and accept the relationships we have, or have had.
You and he didn’t sync in the ‘love’ arena……and you have a magnificant friendship…….
BE HAPPY…..
Allow your friend to be happy.
Since his love is NOT dependant on YOU!
What your feeling is another example of why I know…..
WE walk this earth alone, only with our shadows.
Our happiness depends on US only! Most of the time….our shadows are worthless……..
Now you must move into another gear………and accept his new interest…..get to know her, allow her to feel safe around you……this would be prudent if you want this friendship to continue……..
If you ostracise her by showing control over him or allow her to be threatened by your very friendship with her beau……you will be outed!
So pick your wounded soul up……and know…..his reason and his season……..
You will be okay….process your pain, get to know how blue reacts to every situation, emotionally, physically etc……
Realize…..it;s all part of lifes journey!
OR- You could pay her hairdresser to give her a really bad haircut, (shave her head) and wax off her eyebrows by ‘accident’.
(I am SOOOOO KIDDING, just wanted to make you laugh!)
Have a better day today…..be kind to yourself!
XXOO
EB
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Tuesday, 29 September 2009 @ 7:22am
blueskies says:
oh guys, thanks for your replies, I guess I just got to another layer of my onion. Where I realise that the Blueskies from before, the one that got involved with a sociopath, was looking for more ‘excitement’, a fantasy version of romance, marriage NOW!, MORE!MORE!MORE! … and threw away something pretty damn good…
Love to you all, I guess I just need to calm down, and re-group.
xxxx
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Tuesday, 29 September 2009 @ 7:23am
witsend says:
geminigirl,
I am sorry that you are feeling the “blues” , thinking about your daughter.
Going N/C with your children is probably the hardest thing you have ever done in your lifetime though….So cut yourself some slack. You are doing the right thing and it is only natural that you will have some days that are harder than others.
You ARE blessed to have the adult kids from Iran. I am SURE that God sent these “kids” to you to help with the healing of your heart.
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Tuesday, 29 September 2009 @ 7:30am
ErinBrockovich says:
And you know what……..
Going back to the REASON /SEASON comment…..
Let whatever happens happen…….seriously…..
It has been proven to me over and over and over again…..
The need to look at the BIGGER picture…….
She may have come into his life this season…..only to teach him things that may just benefit YOU some day…..
SHE has already taught YOU things about yourself……..
Your just not seeing it through your hurt.
It WILL ALL WORK OUT THE WAY IT SHOULD………
Believe in that…..have faith in that….
And remember….it may not be the way you THINK it should…….ONLY THE WAY IT WAS MEANT TO!!!!
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Tuesday, 29 September 2009 @ 7:32am
blueskies says:
Erin, you’r a star(you all are) I love what you are saying and I do believe you are right:)xx I am reacting.
Part of the self examination and re- wiring I am doing is getting me to better places within me, so this is part of alll that I guess.
On a positive note, I just made myself laugh, by thinking about Anne of ‘Green Gables’, where she says to Gibert Blyth “I dont want Sunburts or Marble halls, I just want you”. I”M HAVING AN ANNE OF GREEN GABLES MOMENT! …. at this point I’m cutting myself off.
LOVE to you all and thanks. I ‘ll work it out.xxx
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Tuesday, 29 September 2009 @ 7:39am
geminigirl says:
Thank you so much, Witsend! That was so kind of you. I know logically that everyone on LF is right, that NC is the only way forward, and I know it protects me from harm too. Im still not sure that if she rang me in tears again whether id give in again!And I know I MUST NOT give in, for my own mental, emotional and financial health! But its still hard not to feel guilty. I have to keep reminding myself that neither of my “girls’ really gives a rats behind about me or my husband. I know logically that I owe them NOTHING MORE. Im lucky that I can still,{hopefully } get to see my Grandkids, as Ds ex is very loving and friendly to us, and I know he’ll bring them over when he can. I do talk to them on the phone, which is lovely. Im worried about poor New Lily this evening, I know Oxy will keep us posted on her op. Thanks again!{{{HUGS!!}}} Gem.XX
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Tuesday, 29 September 2009 @ 7:41am
kim frederick says:
Blue, I hope you don’t mean cutting yourself off from us. Don’t isolate. That never helps. I agree with EB’s last post. He may be learning something that will benefit YOU!!
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Tuesday, 29 September 2009 @ 7:45am
blueskies says:
No! not from you – from referencing my situation to romatic literature! I am prone to a touch of the ‘lizzie Bennet’s’ sometimes;)xGuh!
dont worry.(..or do,dependant on your point of view ,chuckle) i am going nowhere!
seriously, just getting this out and having a little exchange has made me laugh at myself and get a bit of perspective…I was in a state.
The power of just talking about it? no, not giving that up any time soon:)x
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Tuesday, 29 September 2009 @ 7:50am
ErinBrockovich says:
Gemini:
What your feeling is very normal for a caring/empathetic/compassionate human such as yourself!
It is part of the grieving……
And I would imagine, being a parent in your shoes…..it would be harder than a love relationship.
Because you bore this child.
We always think…..oh, what if I was wrong, what if they have really changed, what if, what if, what if……..it’s the guilt….
STOP!
You stated you know the reality……and it is very clear……
Don’t allow your head to go in this direction…..it is all part of the crazy making…..from afar…..
We want so badly to have ‘normal’ relationships with these S’s……BUT IT IS IMPOSSIBLE…..
This is where the grief comes in…….
IT IS HARD to wrap your thoughts and reality around…..it is!
Redirect your thoughts into a more productive place for YOU…..when you start feeling like this….and questioning your self.
Gemini……again…..it’s all part of the journey of healing……it’s just never easy!!!
That is the beauty of grief…..if it was easy…..we would never learn about ourselves!!!
Make it a nice evening with David……
XXOO
EB
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Tuesday, 29 September 2009 @ 7:58am
ErinBrockovich says:
Blue….
I think you need a little Kate Hepburn or Julie Andrews in you about now…..
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Tuesday, 29 September 2009 @ 8:01am
kim frederick says:
Meg Ryan, and Julia Roberts.
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Tuesday, 29 September 2009 @ 8:15am
Stargazer says:
Blueskies, have you ever seen the movie “My Best Friend’s Wedding” with Julia Roberts? Same theme. I think you might enjoy watching that movie right about now. I mean, he was rejecting JULIA ROBERTS for a new love. That’s gotta put some perspective on it.
I think it’s perfectly normal to grieve over the possibilities with your best male friend. I have gone through this with every one of my exes that I stayed friends with when they found a new flame, even if I was the one who broke up with them! I think you’ll find that if you let yourself grieve and maybe share some of your sadness with him, it will pass and you will be able to be happy for him. Part of the grieving is that he may not be as available to you as a friend as he once was. But that’s not the end of the world. You now get to spend some time alone or make a space for some other new exciting person to come into your life.
As far as you having all this stuff wrong with you, that is EXACTLY what I just went through after a weekend fling with a much younger man. The reality is that you can’t really know the reason why he didn’t want to commit to you. Maybe he was hurt by your relationship with the P. Maybe he just put you in the “just friends” category a long time ago. Maybe he thought you were out of his league. Do you really know? Obviously, if you were as messed up as you think you are, why would he be such a good friend?
I have a new motto: We are not as screwed up as we think we are. (That’s my story, and I’m sticking to it!)
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Tuesday, 29 September 2009 @ 7:39pm
Stargazer says:
Gemini,
Your post made me so sad. Your daughter has obviously gone down a path of destruction, and probably won’t come back without some miracle. This made me think of my opposite situation, how I’ve been estranged from my mother for years. She wants to be kind toward me, but she has never made amends for all the abusive and neglectful things she did to me while I was growing up. She does not want to hear how these things have affected me as an adult. She thinks she can just start acting like a normal mom now that I’m 49 and don’t need that any more, buying me underwear, and just normal chit chat like mothers/daughters do. I cannot live a lie and bury things under the rug without talking about them.
Like you with your daughter, I still love the “good mother” that I never had–the mother that I wish she was. The real person is very narcissistic and doesn’t care about my feelings. It’s very sad, and I feel it will take me some time in therapy to sort out my feelings about her, because she is at least trying to be nice, which is UNLIKE your daughter. The situation with your daughter sounds very clear cut. I relate to the pain of having to cut off a close family member. I don’t know if you ever get past it. I dream about my mom all the time. I wish life were more fair sometimes.
Hugs to you.
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Tuesday, 29 September 2009 @ 7:48pm
kim frederick says:
Love that, Stargazer, I think I’m stickin’ to it too. LOL. I saw your post first thing this AM and wanted to respond, but after coffee, lost track of it. I’m glad you’ve found someone to help you work through the relationship with the boy.
I just know one day we’re all gonna have what we deserve, if we just keep on keepin on!
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Tuesday, 29 September 2009 @ 7:49pm
Stargazer says:
Thanks, Kim. I feel the boy was actually a mirror for me to look at some areas in my life that need attention–where I am repressed, where I am unhappy, and all the things I need to change and let go of. It really has nothing to do with him; but he was the catalyst. In fact, if our paths ever cross again, I will thank him for playing that role. I’m sure he learned some things from me too, even if he is not forthcoming about what those things are. He may not even have a conscious understanding of it.
He was right when he said I need to do the 4th and 5th steps: taking a moral inventory and sharing it with someone else. This is the goal of therapy. I wish I had someone to talk to on a more ongoing basis right now, because I feel overwhelmed with all of this emotional material. I just shut down until my next session and I can chip away at it. In a way, I feel like I am almost autistic in how I shut down and keep feelings inside, projecting all kinds of unconstructive ideas into the world. One example is how I blame the guys when I feel bad about something in the relationship. That is very hard for me to admit, but when I feel jealous, threatened, or my rejection issue gets triggered, I just shut down and then make him bad or wrong. This is a form of control, and I am guilty of it.
I don’t like all the things I’m seeing about myself. But I feel it’s time to get very honest about who I am and how I operate. That’s the only way I can change. It may take a while at the rate I’m going, but I want to live my life and a genuine and honest person.
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Tuesday, 29 September 2009 @ 8:03pm
ErinBrockovich says:
Stargazer:
What a healing perspective you have on yourself and your environment.
You are in a good and healthy place today!
I commend your growth.
We have good days and we have set backs……but we must keep putting one foot in front of the other and seek growth and self awareness.
Congratulations….I am very proud of you!!
XXOO
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Tuesday, 29 September 2009 @ 8:25pm
skylar says:
Stargazer,
You really have an amazing ability to see yourself. That is one of the hardest things to do. Your honesty with yourself is going to move you forward. I don’t think your average person can put their ego aside like you did. That’s an amazing strength, I hope to be able to do that as well as you do, some day.
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Tuesday, 29 September 2009 @ 8:27pm
Stargazer says:
Thank you so much for the validation, EB and skylar. I have a very good therapist, who is free for 6 sessions through my Employee Assistance Program. I actually feel different inside since the session, like I’m not projecting so much, and I’m not hiding from myself. It doesn’t feel great, I have to admit. But one difference I noticed is that I had the confidence lately to go out and apply for a better paying job. And I will apply for others in the next few weeks. I’ve been stuck in the same p/t office job for 7 years. I have decided it’s time for a change.
I remember talking with the boy about our healing process when he was here. He was telling me that he is really more concerned with his own part in what happened with me and him last time. He wants know what he did wrong so he can change those things (he’s probably going through it again after our last visit, too). So now I feel the same way. I am really only interested in my part, not in his, because I have no control over his issues. For my part, I SHUT DOWN and went into fear halfway through the visit when he started pulling away. His behaviors triggered MY rejection/abandonment issues. And when this happened, I’m sure I did some things to push him away even farther. This is MY responsibility, NOT HIS. Obviously, I can’t go back and change it, but I can work on those issues so I don’t act them out again. These are the things I do that have sabotaged many of my relationships. I’m seeing it very clearly for the first time. I can’t believe what a different perspective I have on him and our visit now. I had actually convinced myself that he was an evil sociopath who set out to destroy me. I think nothing could be farther from the truth!
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Tuesday, 29 September 2009 @ 8:39pm
kim frederick says:
Stargazer, I hope you understand what I’m about to say. Just because you see that He’s not evil, and he wasn’t out to get you doesn’t mean he’s not toxic to you, right now.
You can still become intoxicated by someone who is sincere, means well, is only trying to work on his own issues. You can be sabatoged by your own brain chemistry, and have to suffer though the pain of withdrawl all over again.
Take care of yourself and focus on you, for now.
You sound like you’re in a really good place. I’m happy for you!
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Tuesday, 29 September 2009 @ 8:56pm
Stargazer says:
Yeah, I don’t think he and I would have any business hanging out together. Good thing he lives in SF. I think what happened with us was almost destined, and we learned what we were supposed to learn. I have no bad feelings toward him, and wouldn’t rule out a friendly conversation in the distant future, if it should ever happen.
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Tuesday, 29 September 2009 @ 9:25pm
blueskies says:
Stargazer, thankyou so much for your post:)xxx Really well said:)
I think this is a bit more tricky than other ex’s I have remained friends with becau