Nancy Garrido: alleged kidnapper and rapist
PDF Last week I discussed Philip Garrido, a psychotic and psychopathic individual who allegedly with the help of his wife kidnapped Jaycee Dugard at age 11 and held her 18 years. This week I would like to discuss the some of the details of Nancy Garrido’s life that have been reported by reliable news sources.
The Details
Nancy Garrido is 54, her maiden name is Bocanegra. She was born born in Texas, the second child of a family of five or six children. She has been married to Phillip 28 years. According to the New York Times, “Gail Powell, a spokeswoman for the Nevada Department of Public Safety, said Nancy Bocanegra was visiting an incarcerated uncle when she met Mr. Garrido, a tall, lanky and deep-eyed sex offender who was serving a 50-year sentence for the 1976 rape and kidnapping of a casino worker from South Lake Tahoe, Calif.”
The couple married in the prison and did not live together until Phillip’s release 7 years later. Nancy never had children, but is reported to have been a caregiver. She cared for Phillip’s elderly mother and worked as a nurse’s aide.
Several people who knew Nancy described her as submissive, depressive and quiet. Others said she appeared kind and caring.
Nancy’s employer reportedly said this about her work with developmentally disabled adults, “The people she worked with really liked her.”
Questions
The same employer also questioned “How could it be that this other situation was happening at the same time? It’s impossible to understand.”
People are also asking why Nancy participated in this crime. They are questioning whether she was under “the spell” of her husband, and whether she was “brainwashed.”
My questions
I wonder why we allow sex offenders to marry in prison. He had a history at least one other arrest, “It seems likely that Ms. Garrido knew all too well of her new husband’s sexual history and proclivities. In addition to his rape and kidnapping conviction, Mr. Garrido had also been arrested in a 1972 rape of a 14-year-old girl in Antioch, Calif., the Bay Area suburb near where he had grown up and where he and Ms. Garrido would settle with his mother after his release from prison in 1988,” said the New York Times.
Is there any legal reason why sex offenders or other psychopathic felons should be allowed to marry while they are in custody? They can’t vote, why should they marry? I think we allow these offenders to marry because some still believe that “love” can rehabilitate them; that marriage makes it less likely they will reoffend. (Lawyers reading this please comment!)
I contend that this marriage facilitated his re-offense and that sociopaths often could not do what they do without the help of witting and unwitting accomplices. The best thing for society is to isolate these people. We are more likely to be suspicious of an offender who lives by himself. Marriage and family just give them the false facade of normalcy.
There is data showing that generally speaking marriage prevents re-arrest of felons. We don’t know if that applies to psychopathic sex offenders. We also don’t know if marriage protects against re-offense versus just re-arrest. My suspicion is that married psychopaths just get away with more.
Why would a woman marry such a man? Many serial killers have a following of women and other women have married offenders serving life sentences. It is noted that Nancy had an uncle in the same prison, and that is how she met Phillip. Perhaps the presence of other antisocial individuals in her life desensitized her to their dangerousness.
Many have questioned why Phillip was released after serving only one fifth of his sentence. I wonder if it had anything to do with this marriage and the fact that Phillip’s mother allowed the couple to live with her after his release.
All family members who render aid to psychopathic offenders have moral culpability to any subsequent crimes they commit. When you do something nice for a psychopath, a perverse reverse Karma is created. The psychopath will use the “nice” to perpetrate evil on someone else or even you. In this case, a kindness bestowed upon a psychopath will result in bad Karma for you.
The fact that sociopathy/psychopathy is a spectrum as opposed to an absolute category is confusing for people. In the same way, the spectrum that defines the spouses, family members, and associates of sociopaths/psychopaths is also confusing. Let’s be open to the real likelihood that Nancy is also psychopathic and selected Phillip for that reason.
What about the caretaking behavior? What about Nancy’s assertions that she loves and misses the victims? This week I came across another important statement regarding psychopathic individuals and love. It came from a book chapter written by three psychopathy experts:
“they (psychopaths) may also be prone to express intense affiliative impulses directly. Because such attractions are not based on empathy (for) or a mature appreciation of another person, these positive affectional links are often likely to be fleeting, tenuous, and based on illusory perceptions of others” (emphasis added).
To translate the difficult vocabulary, psychopaths do experience affection and intense impulses that feel like “love” to them. It is not all just a sham or a lie. That is why psychopaths are able to fool people. It is not that victims and family members are always so gullible that they fall for the lies. Sometimes the people in a psychopath’s life correctly read the “positive affectional links” and “intense affiliative impulses”.
What we all need to understand is that the presence of these impulses and feelings doesn’t tell us anything about a person since even psychopaths have these. What tells us most about Nancy’s inner world is the crimes she is alleged to have perpetrated.
Please if you are in the life of a psychopathic person, particularly an offender or sex offender consider carefully what I have said here.
Sources for this blog
LA Times
NY Times
The Clinical and Forensic Assessment of Psychopathy: A Practitioner’s Guide (Personality and Clinical Psychology Series) by Carl B. Gacono (Editor) Chapter 8
written by Liane Leedom, M.D. • Permalink •
justabouthealed says:
My post was written before I read your last one. good for you. You have a handle on all this!
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shabbychic says:
Sky, I agree with the comments, he goes on and on and on about what YOU did to HIM, what a joke, the campfire of love, what a dick, he just wants you to pity him and feel bad, and then he launches into what he really wants: CONTROL over what happens to the property, let the cats live where they grew up, what a scream. OMG, he might have to put up a deck and repair the kitchen! Then he tries to act like he is concerned about your retirement and income strategies and is being “selfless” !! You do what’s best for YOU!!!
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skylar says:
Shabby,
I wish he’d put in the deck and repair the kitchen and the roof! Then I could rent it or sell it for more.
But I think that’s just a lure. I’ve seen him lure other landlords – including me – with the promise of repairs and upgrades.
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witsend says:
skylar,
With his manipulating “play” on words, such as his email suggest I don’t think you can AFFORD to have him fix anything that belongs to you.
I think the price you would pay would be very high. (and nothing to do with $$$) Plus I would bet the “project” would never be finished (if it even ever got started) because there is not enough in it for HIM.
He would rather just be “paid off” as he “graciously” (NOT) suggested in his email.
He is a con and wants his share even if it isn’t his share at all. He believes he is entitled.
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ANewLily says:
Skylar, I think I remember that he was much older than you when you met him at age 17, is that correct? Do you know anything about his life before you?
As you mention his “underground” life with you, I’m very suspicious that he is hiding from something in his past. Have you checked into his background? It might be helpful.
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shabbychic says:
Yeah, if he builds a deck and repairs the kitchen you’ll be the one paying for it. Maybe it should be sold “as is” (I’m not a realtor, don’t want to “give” incorrect advice!)
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skylar says:
SC & Witsend,
you’re right, any repair would have a hidden horror or a trap door.
Lily,
he was 28 and he sold drugs but I have investigated him and he has always been too slippery so there is no police record. His credit record is a joke, though.
I just talked to the girlfriend of his “supply”, a millionaire that he keeps close to. I just told her everything I know about him. I’m worried that the millionaire is also a P, because his xwife “killed herself” with a shotgun. The gf is a doctor and I’m worried about her safety. He fixes the millionaire’s aircraft but has the licensed mechanics sign off on it, so the millionaire is also in danger, but that doesn’t mean that he isn’t a P. Anyone can end up a P when you get close to a P, look at Nancy Garrido. If you don’t know what you are dealing with they can talk you into doing anything.
There is one thing that I did because of the P that I’m ashamed of. I will tell you all here because it pertains to this topic:
My wonderful dog, a black german shepard had been ill for many years and was dying. We had kept him alive long past when he should have been euthanized. One night he whined and whined and wouldn’t let us sleep. He was outside but we could hear him. Then the P got up, raging. I followed him and he went out and hit my dog. Then I, in a delirium of sleep deprivation, also hit my dog. I felt sick the moment I did it, but I couldn’t even condemn myself because then I would have had to condemn the P for his behavior – something that I would never do. Because the P was never judged as bad (because I loved him so much), I could do whatever the P did and still be good. It is a sick way of understanding, but it is true. That is why children end up doing what they see their parents do.
Obviously, that was one of the first things that woke me up to the P being less than perfect because after a few moments of thought, my conscience let me have it. After several years, it has really let me have it. This post is the first time I’ve ever mentioned this incident to anyone. It’s time for it to come out.
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shabbychic says:
Sky, we’ve all done things we’re ashamed of, I’ve done plenty of things on my own, with no P around, that I regret. I understand where you are coming from… at the time you were not able to condemn the behavior, but you felt sick the moment you did it, you still feel bad about it, I had a dog I still feel bad about leaving her outside all the time, I guess we learn about ourselves and what we will never do again. I wish I had a chance to do so many things over again, and I’m not talking about relationshits. You are a wonderful person who made a mistake, you have courage to write about it.
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OxDrover says:
Dear Skylar,
His e mail should be used as an EXAMPLE of BULLCHIT FOG (fear, obligation and guilt)—he is trying to get you to accept BLAME for “putting out the fire of his love” ROTFLMAO You can’t “put out” a fire that never burned.
He is telling you (threats really) that if you don’t do as he says there may be some “negative stuff” come out about YOU (and possibly him) so he is trying to get you to HUSH up and not make a “fuss.”
He is absolutely trying to TRICK you in to not fighting him, and yes, you will lose more money than if he was rEASONABLE but we KNOW HE IS NOT reasonable, so you might as well count on a fight.
I would not let him work on the house as he will DESTROY it if he gets a chance so it will never sell.
There are appraisers who make a living doing apprasials, and when went to sell mine I paid an appriaser (licensed) not a Real estate agent to set the price (ther eis a formula they use plus their experience etc) it is WORTH it to get a reasonable and REAL estimate of what the house(s) are/is worth. Usually a court will accept a licensed appriaser’s work as IMPARTIAL.
He talks about the pet cemetary needing to be moved, another guilt trip and the cats living out their lives where they were raised—guilt trip too.
Oh, my goodness, (tongue in cheek) I can’t understand with such a wonderful guy as him and what a witch you are why you aren’t begging on your knees to take this PSYCHOPATHIC JERK BACK! THAT’S A JOKE!!!!!
A lawyer may be “expensive” but I guarentee that without one it will cost you more!!!!!
The way to tell if he is lying is—ARE HIS LIPS MOVING? Is he writing you an e mail, leaving you a text message, or is he breathing? If any question is “yes”—he is LYING. ((hugs)))
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skylar says:
LOL Oxy,
you’re right, I must be DELUSIONAL not to want that sweet campfire love back.
I doubt he will hire lawyers, he has too much to hide to go to court.
I’ve already spoken with 3 women friends of his (wives and gf of 3 friends. I will speak with another soon. I may just arrange an INTERVENTION. Wouldn’t that be fun?
The response I’m getting from these women is not entirely disbelieving. They are shocked and reserved in judgement, naturally, it is impossible to believe that they have been welcoming a sociopath into their homes for 2 decades, but they also know how strange he has always been and are finally beginning to understand why. I’ve recommended the books to them and soon they will all know…
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witsend says:
skylar,
I would be somewhat leary of sharing to much information with the wives & gfs.
As much as the actions/behaviours of an S/P/N are obvious once you “get it”….There are still way more people out there who don’t get it than those that do.
Although they have known him for 20 years as you say and know that he is “strange” it still might be hard for them to grasp onto the S/P/N info. They might know him but they don’t “know him” like you do. They didn’t live with him.
The problems of sharing with them as I see it is they may go back and tell their husbands and then it gets back to your X.
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kim frederick says:
Skylar, it’s really ironic that you told your dog story and I woke up to find it this AM. I have a dog story, too, from 29 years ago that still haunts me. It’s funny that last night I woke up and couldn’t go back to sleep because I kept thinking about it. It makes me feel so bad, and I know I will always feel the guilt and regret of it.
My first P husband and I saw an add in the paper for a 3 mo. old dobie pup. We went to get it, and a young girl, about 13 was heart broken because her parents were making her give it up. I promised her that I would take good care of her puppy. Everything went well for about the next 2 years, but when the xP and I split up, I left the dog. I was 21 with 2 small children, had to go home to my parents house. They owned cats they had babied for years, had no fenced yard etc.
At one point my xP told me he would no longer feed the dog. Unfortunately I didn’t take him seriously, so I didn’t really make it a priority to find the dog a home. Well, eventually I did find him a home with a young kid I had just met.(about 16.) When we went to pickup my dog he was skin and bones. He was starving. I called a week or so later to ask if they had the dog, and the kids father said no. He asked if I knew the dog was starving. I never asked what happened to the dog, and I still don’t know. I feel soooo awful about that. Still.
I guess it’s true confessions day. I want to get it off my chest. Thanks,LF for being here.
Skylar, as much as it hurts, I guess we should be grateful we feel remorse. It means we’re human.
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applehillbilly says:
Skylar, I have to agree with Oxy and shabbychic. I gotta say his letter was very entertaining and revealing. Forgive yourself and keep the lawyer. The difference between you and him is that you have remorse for your actions and he probably never will. That said, I am concerned for your safety.
Only you can make the decision on how and when to move on but my gut tells me from what you’ve written is that any interaction with your ex and his circle of friends is very risky either physically, emotionally or both. The sooner you distance yourself from his world the better.
Staying engaged with this type of personality directly or indirectly through common acquaintances can only fan the flames (of that ridiculous campfire). Metaphorically speaking, it’s still burning, certainly not of love but more the loss of his losing control. He obviously he still has an agenda that’s not in your best interest.
Mixing threats with concern for your well-being…and the cats??? Can this narcissist really care about where the cats live or a pet is buried?
This guy is so transparent, he doesn’t want lawyers involve because knows he can’t manipulate them they he thinks he can manipulate you. You say he keeps his identity hidden and his name doesn’t appear on the deed – it sounds like there is a lot more to his story that could cause some real problems for him in a courthouse.
A good lawyer has experienced in dealing with these people/situations and can offer objective advice and help protect you (i.e. restraining order) and make sure that you don’t get taken advantage of when dividing the assets. Controlling to the end…he gives you a 10 day deadline to respond or he’ll instruct the attorney.
I’m curious, is this the attorney you hired? Or his attorney?
Having his only contact to you done directly through a lawyer could be just as entertaining since he’ll probably continue with his amateur tactics.
That said I hope you spend your time and energy getting your life back and moving on and thank goodness there aren’t any children involved.
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OxDrover says:
I agree—KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT TO EVERYONE ABOUT YOUR PLANS—-because is is LIKELY any information you share with ANYONE (especially pe9ople who don’t GET IT 110%) will gossip abou tit and the information will get back to him. YOU NEED TO KEEP YOUR CARDS CLOSE TO YOUR CHEST so he won’t be able t ofind out your tactics until you spring them on him. DON’T give him anyway to plan ahead of your “suprises” in court.
I know it is tempting to share this and validate all this with “friends” but I can tell you FROM EXPERIENCE, you need to keep this kind of information to yourself.
KIM: two words: FORGIVE YOURSELF!
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skylar says:
Kim,
I’m pretty sure the dog was reincarnated as my cat, Jasper.
Long story, but there are so many coincidences between the two: his carriage, his mannerisms, likes and dislikes, even the injuries to his ears occuring at the same stage of life. The 100lb dog always wanted to be a little cat because my sick little orange cat got all the cuddling and attention. So he came back as an orange cat, Jasper. Jasper loves me and feared my xP.
Applehillbill,
I do hate lawyers and would rather just leave them out. I haven’t hired any attorneys. My xP is desperate for money. He doesn’t have a leg to stand on. I will tell him to stop spending money on lawyers and that I will not be selling the house until i have the money to fix it and get top dollar for it.
My xP is really deranged and living in a world of delusion. I hadn’t realized that until now. Like a child, I think he miscalculated what “freedom” would be like. He isn’t just wanting money, I think he wants attention and since I don’t respond to the other stuff, now he is using threats.
I’m going to have to face him eventually and bring out my “inner-P” to do it.
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skylar says:
Oxy,
Oh, I don’t tell anyone except LF my plans. I just tell them the truth about him. I tell them what is happening and then I tell them to read the books. By the time I’m done talking to them they are so afraid and they don’t know what to think, because they know how dangerous he is but it’s hard to accept. So I think they go NC.
I told the doctor gf to keep everything to herself until she can ascertain if SHE is safe. Her millionaire bf lives on the side of cliff! literally, the back yard ends in a cliff that looks over the columbia river. I also advised her not to fly in any of the aircraft. She admitted that she was always very skeptical of my xP when he would find all these potentially fatal flaws in the aircraft that no one else could see. Now, I’ve pointed out that this is a typical con-game. and that my xP is a con man. She will go NC too. Even if her millionaire bf is a P, he will soon see that he is a mark too, then he will go NC.
In all of my conversations with them I am completely honest about my opinion and my feelings: I tell them that I’m afraid of him and also I feel sorry for him.
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OxDrover says:
Dear Skylar,
I just wanted you to be careful becuse I HAVE HAD IT HAPPEN and I know others who have as well, ANY information you pass out on them comes back to BITE you in the end.
Others are not so apt to believe the truth as you might think, just CAUTION, even with other victims.
Even with PROOF they don’t always believe it. (head shaking here) I hope you can get it all settled easily and be out and away from him ASAP!!! (((hugs)))))
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skylar says:
Yes, I remember about the minister not being much help to you, but I never actually understood what you were asking him to do.
I also remember about your egg donor. She sounds like she loves chaos so her intent is just to keep the chaos going.
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OxDrover says:
Dear Skylar,
EXPOSURE of her lies is about the ONLY thing my egg donor is afraid of. I know this particular minister was a “close friend” of hers, and if there was ANYONE she would NOT want to know about her lies, he is ONE of those, so I was hoping he would have back bone enough to confront her about her lies, but obviously (even with documented proof and witnesses he knew would not lie) he was obviously not willing to help.
I was hoping he would help me STOP her from sending money (and therefore resources) to my P son—who needs resources and money to mount another murder attempt on me.
I don’t think he ever thought I was “holy” enough to be of much value…LOL…oh, well..it was WORTH a shot, but was stressful on me…but you know, I wasn’t disappointed when I got no help, because I didn’t let myself expect too much!
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skylar says:
Ah yes, the exposure thing. I know that one well from my P-parents. They ARE hardworking people, not like most P’s but they have created all the P children by their abuse and they are very aware of it. They have a perfect home, perfect reputations, everyone loves them but each of their children is a disaster. Now 2 of us are living in their basement. LOL.
The church thing is really starting to disgust me. I think if you want something from a minister, you have to have deep pockets or the appearance of it. Your mom, as a P, is probably very aware of it. She probably hinted at the possibility of a donation to his church in her will.
There’s a reason why they call their congregations a flock and themselves a shepard. They see us as sheep to be fleeced.
I watched “Doubt” last night with Meryl Streep. Very good movie.
(spoiler alert)
In the movie, she lies ONE time, to get the truth from the P and it works. That is what I’m realizing now: nothing works with P’s except lies. When dealing with them, you need to find YOUR inner-P, come up with a good lie and manipulate away!
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OxDrover says:
Dear Skylar,
I realize now that there are PLENTY of “false prophets” and FAKE christians in churches, but there are also some good people.
I read a sermon the other day about Jesus’ parable of the farmer who planted wheat and his hired hands realized taht “tares” (which is a plant that LOOKS like wheat but is a weed) was in the fields, and they asked him if he wanted them to try to pull up the weeds, and he said “No, leave them for now and when the wheat is ready to harvest we will pull them out.”
It is only before the harvest that you can tell the wheat from the tares (weeds) and if you try to tear out the weeds that LOOK like wheat you will do more damage than if you just leave them for a while….very interesting parable and I didn’t really understand it until I was shown that “tares” APPEAR just like wheat (in other words, the field is the church, and the wheat the good people and the tares the false christians) so there will always be false christians in every church and always be people who APPEAR on the outside to be “good people” but aren’t.
What do we talk about here so much THE MASK OF THE PSYCHOPATH—-they appear to be good people (some of them) when they are WEEDS.
Sometimes we are unable to “weed” our garden due to circumstances, but eventually, we can for sure see what we need to do and WEED it.
My son and I were talking last night about how there is so much similarity between the way they mask themselves, and waht their real intentions are. How they attract our PITY and in reality they are WOLVES out for our flesh (I know, real wolves don’t eat people!) but anyway, you get the idea of what I mean, they are out for themselves and hide under the “sheep’s clothing”—and believe me a sheep is pitiful, it is defenseless and stupid and seems born trying to die or kill itself and NEEDS someone to look after it. But these WOLVES covered with a sheep skin are anything BUT helpless.
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OxDrover says:
ps skylar:
I have NO problem manipulating a psychopath at all. It does not seer my conscience to mislead them….being “honest” with them would be like a general telling the enemy where he plans to attack next!
We know they play the game with lies, and I do nto feel we are obligated to tell THEM the truth about our plans or what we are thinking. Too many times we have told them the TRUTH and had it BITE us in the butt. NO MORE! That tactic doesn’t work—-so manipulate away!
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panther says:
Skylar, I finally had time to take a look at this letter.
I don’t even know where to begin. This guy is NUTS! I can also clearly see how he makes his moves. SICK SICK SICK. But I wonder….does he actually KNOW what he’s doing, because he actually seems to think that his behavior and twisted rationality is logical somehow. I mean, he told you that he sat in front of your parents’ house and then approached your mom when she basically came out of the safety of her home.
This letter is sooo helpful, because I see my ex ALL OVER THE PLACE in here, and seeing another person with that same, twisted, SICK logic–someone I have no emotions for and cannot sway me–makes it crystal clear how truly deranged it is.
I am so sorry you had to put up with that. What a nightmare!
I hope he’s stopped hanging around you and people you care about. Yuck!
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panther says:
Oh, and by the way, his “campfire” analogy is just HILARIOUS when you look at it from a different view, because it’s so ridiculous, yet he manages to use it in this very orchestrated way, like he really worked to make a masterpiece out of this little piece of garbage he sent you. Oh, you attack the flame! Oh, no! Don’t attack the poor poor flame of love!
Oh, no. You did. You did attack the poor, little flame of innocent love.
<—-That's my sarcasm again. How come no one ever gets my sarcasm? 
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the phoenix says:
Skylar- I have to agree with panther’s post about seeing my spath in yours… I haven’t read the letter of which everyone speaks, but my spath otherwise known as the vortex, duped his parents into paying him to make repairs on our/their house (long story) as well as paying for the materials too. Any question or wonder that he overinflated his time and everything involved, or that he has yet to complete all of the work? Way to go there sport! Sticking it to your enablers huh?
He also had a ‘friend’ help him out, padded the time/ hence money for him too, then kept part of what they paid for the friend’s time as well. Besides all of that, he kept some of the ‘friend’s’ tools to boot. Talk about kicking someone while they are down…
Aaaaaack!
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Ox Drover says:
Dear Phoenix,
Yep, SOP (standard operating procedure) for a s-path!
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the phoenix says:
Oxy- no kidding huh? BTW- you’ve got mail…
Skylar- I just scanned back through and read the letter. I would keep a copy handy by the lou. Makes for good bathroom reading material if nothing else. Bwahahahahahaha! Cry me a freakin river with those crocodile tears baby!
SOP? How well does all of this fit the bill?
Mine is much the same, when pinned down on something he has done, fall on your back, play submissive and throw the ‘Victim’ card. If that doesn’t work, accuse your accuser of the same actions, but he can’t ever seem to remember an instance of it happening the other way around to support his claims. Of course not!
Then there’s the game of “ask me a question”. You already reached a predetermined ‘answer’ in your mind, but want me to try to explain my life away, hoping somehow you will see the truth and understand me…. Yeah, sorry but no. I have already played this pointless game. There is no winning with you, no changing your mind, I can just rattle on and talk ’til I runout of breath, logic and reason. You are still stuck on your pressumed answer and there is no changing that.
Sorry but I will need to think of a few more to post. Unless of course anyone else can add to the mix.
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the phoenix says:
Just thought of a another one as soon as I hit “Post’. *sigh*
When you point something out, they ask for an explanation. Then they want an explanation with examples. You provide them with several. To which they ask- what do you mean by that? Asking you to explain it all again. I don’t understand- explain it again. This can go on until you have explained the same thing, the same examples 4 or 5 times or more. When they will ask you to explain it all yet again. Because they are not listening, because they don’t care.
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skylar says:
Phoenix,
It’s frustrating trying to talk to them as if they were normal.
I told spath, “talking to you is like talking to a brick wall. nothing I say matters. Can’t you hear me?”
He would just continue with the same old BS – just as if I hadn’t said a thing.
If you like campfire of my love, you would LOVE the recording I made of him crying. It’s so pathetic and so obviously faked.
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Ana says:
Hi Phoenix & Skylar,
Geez, reading your post’s…I must of drove her crazy! I’d say back to her “waddya mean, waddya I mean?” LOL
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skylar says:
Ana,
someone here posted that you could actually short circuit spath speak, by asking, “what do you mean by that?”
I can’t remember who posted that.
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Ana says:
Skylar,
Thanks! Good to know. She thought she was so smart and of course everyone else was a moron. I made her explain herself to the minute degree, cause ya know she was a “genuis” and I was just a stupid “c” word. LOLOOLLLL
I didn’t even realize I drove her nuts…how comforting! I also used to stare at her face, like I was trying to memorize it…gee, I guess I was “star struck” Lawdy.
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one/joy_step_at_a_time says:
i was very laid back from years of meditation – i would just be with people. didn’t ask tons of questions, just let people be as they were. i had interacted with hundreds of people with that approach and was only truly sorry for it twice – spath and n ex gf.
IF i had asked or pushed (but, oh the spath was so sick and on the verge of dying all the time) the response would have caused so much cog. dis. in me, i think would have gotten out a lot sooner.
the times i did push, i got an array of responses from the various ‘characters’: evasiveness, feigned memory loss, more lies (direct ones, as to be distinguished from evasiveness and feigned memory loss), sullenness, silence, and at the end, pure curdling rage and threats.
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one/joy_step_at_a_time says:
it used to drive the n ex mad that i wasn’t a big story teller – didn’t talk a lot about my far past, and only a bit about my recent past. i was busy with today. i was very clear within myself that i didn’t want to bond about the trauma in our lives. many of the lesbians i have known are huge on this (thank ye lord that the 80′s are looong gone – it was the decade of trauma bonding)
I believe she didn’t trust me because of this. I also believe she was fishing for shit she could use on me. I am so thankful that my natural state protected me.
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panther says:
Hi Skylar,
Oh, yours is a professional crying machine too?
Mine didn’t get into crying until he started researching spaths. Yes, when I accused him of being an spath, he went on a buncha site, including this one, and read up on what we normal people consider crazy.
OUT OF NOWHERE he became super emotional. The timing was so obvious and uncanny. Suddenly he felt sooo bad for the way his actions had hurt me that he was bawling all the time. He even said words primer plucked from an spath related blog, but the hilarious thing was that he didn’t know HOW to use them. He said to me once, “Look back at those previous emails! Look at all of the empathy I have displayed!” Okay, my quote is a little off, but it was very close to this. He was commanding that I acknowledge his empathy, or else! It came off like, “Dammit, I gave you that emotional crap that you wanted, now give me all my toys back!”
Skylar, the way you make humor out of all this is really like a breath of fresh air. It’s nice to know others have been through this with these whackos and come out the other side with something to laugh about at least.
I am so glad I found Love Fraud. Sheesh. I really really cannot say that enough. There should be more places like this. We need an AA for victims of psychopaths.
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justus5 says:
Panther-that is why I haven’t called my P/N a spath to his face yet. Something told me that would be a bad idea, then he would have one more card to play to “act normal”.
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panther says:
Here I found some great DIRECT quotes straight from the lion’s mouth. By the way, I was actually thinking it might be a good idea if we all got together and opened a website called “Letters from Real Sociopaths” or something like that, or “Straight from the Lion’s Mouth.” Rather than just articles about them (which are great and have their place), it would be all direct spath talk. This could help other people identify their current suppressor by looking at tactics that other sociopaths have used. Just a thought.
So, here are some lines in what he thought was a romantic message. Can you pick up why this creeped me out a little?
….
I am madly drawn to you. I want to f**k you every second of every day. It never ends. A year and a half and it never diminished but became more. It’s passion at its prime.
I only want you to be safe, happy, and at peace. It’s care at its top.
I am, I was , and I’ll always be loyal to you. It’s respect on a top level.
I want you to find your own path, follow your own success, and attain your own dreams. I want to see you success. It’s selfless love without a doubt.
I am afraid of you. I am afraid you’ll never understand what I gave you, give you, what I’ll give you. I am afraid you will always think of me as a psychopath. I am afraid you’ll never understand why I did what I did_fear. I am afraid you’ll never comprehend why I went insane, sociopathic, and compuslive lying. I am afraid I can never redeem myself for all the dishonesty, manipulation, tactics to keep me safe. I am afraid I’ll never have you fully.
I am in love, I am loving, caring and understanding. I am in love and I have embraced it without my ego in the equation. You make me cry, you call me a whino, you slash me, I accept. I deserve it and I have embraced you as you are. Your hurt me, I keep trying. I cannot respond, it’s not around here anymore. I am Jesus. Oh yeah.. To you alone though. You can hit me and I will keep turning my other cheek…
He goes on an on, but the line, “I am Jesus,” really creeped me out.
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panther says:
justus5
YES and that is EXACTLY the new edge he is walking away with. Now he can actually study himself and get better at what he does. He really changed after I told him I suspected he was an spath. He started a new approach, which was basically what kinda confirmed that I was probably right. He studied up and then altered his game to accommodate the new intel. And it was so obvious, like he had just gone back stage and put on a new suit for the occasion he realized normal people are all attending.
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justus5 says:
Skyler-you wrote, “My mother would never abandoned you she would always be attentive and genuinely concerned,…” Also, you wrote “My brothers would have never treated you
this way.” Holy… do they have a play book they use. Mine uses that tactic ALL THE TIME. ROTFLMAO Oh and the use of the word geniunely…they seem to like that word.
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justus5 says:
Panther-Thank God it took me a long time reading here to call him a spath (somewhere on the spectrum anyway) because by then I learned that they DO NOT change, won’t go for help and can’t be helped. So I reasoned that if I called him on it I would only serve to give him more ammo. He would just learn to wear better wool to hide the wolf beneath. I figured if he cared about his family his heart would open up, telling him he was a spath would serve no good purpose because there is no cure.
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Ox Drover says:
Justus5,
We used to talk and joke about the “psychopathic play book” and would say, Something (jokingly) like “Yea, that is in the Play book, page 141, paragraph 4″….actually there is a book that I read and did a book review here on LF about that is ALMOST THE PLAY BOOK…it is called “The 48 Laws of Power” and gives play by play rules to live by that would make you a psychopath…this guy also wrote a book called the Art of Seduction….on telling how to seduce someone sexually. If there IS a P’s PLAYBOOK, I think this book is IT.
And oh, yes, they can adapt their behavior to new intell….but they do not get the meaning of words that are emotional. They may know the meaning of the word CHAIR but they do not know the meaning of “love” or “empathy” so they can only try to fake it.
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justus5 says:
Oxy- They don’t know the meaning of genuinely either, they just use it because it adds more “color” to their words. They don’t need to read either of those books though, they were programmed from the beginning. We need to read those books so we know the rules to the game we are playing with them.
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justus5 says:
Skyler-I am trying to keep your name up because I really want you to see what I posted above.
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superkid10 says:
Panther
Oh my goodness. What a great post. The wacky wacky wacky things he said! They make no sense!
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Ox Drover says:
Justus5,Actually, that was why I read the book, so I could see how the various levels of POWER (read control) could be used. The author was supposedly educating people on how to AVOID this, but believe me a sharp psychopath would have used it as a text book in a PhD course on psychopathy and how to do it. And let’s face it, some are better at it than others. Some just are low end liquor store robbers, but others are Bernie Maddoff and destroy thousands of people at once.
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superkid10 says:
Skylar, Oxy
I have a question. I know you’ve been targets – death threats from your spaths. Or worse.
My spath has a gun and a gun permit. But he’s now undergoing mental health counseling – thank god – he told me a few weeks ago now”sombody’s got to die” but refused to answer what that meant. Is he going to kill me?
Anyway, I’m wondering, since he’s under the care of a mental health professional, and he’s told his therapist about this “sombody’s gotta die” idea – is that therapist bound to report him to authorities or to a database? Might the authorities pull his gun permit?
What should I do with this?
He’s not inpatient, he’s out patient, but he’s threatening and unstable.
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Ox Drover says:
Superkid,
I would call the following
1) sheriff/police chief and talk to them about what you just said
2) the therapist (the therapist can’t talk to you, but they can LISTEN to what you have to say)
3) The therapist’s supervisor and tell them what you have done about reporting to the police
A therapist is a MANDATED REPORTER and if a person is a danger or says he is a danger to himself or others the therapist must DO something about it.
A person who has a gun permit and threatens someone
The TELLING YOU “someone’s got to die” is in my view a TERRORISTIC THREAT and can be prosecuted by the DA….but the DA is the one who will have to make that determination.
You might be able to get his permit pulled at least…..BUT at the same time….if you get his permit to carry concealed pulled he can STILL have a GUN and even a restraining order or order of protection (BTW if found out yesterday that “restraining order” and “order of protection” and “no contact” order are NOT the same in Arkansas, actually the OP violation is a crime in itself and the violation of the other two are NOTHING. Doesn’t make sense to me but that’s the way it is. Anyway, hope that answer your question, but I WOULD TAKE IT AS A THREAT AND I WOULD TAKE IT SERIOUSLY. VERY SERIOUSLY.
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skylar says:
Superkid,
The only problem I have with Oxy’s advice is that spaths all lie.
If it was my spath saying that, then I know his real intent is to scare me into doing something to make me look crazy and then denying it. That’s why you NEED TO HAVE A RECORDER. Whether or not it is legal in your state, I don’t know, but you should at least have evidence of what he said, because when it comes to spaths, the biggest problem is that nobody believes us. Don’t talk to him on the phone so that he is forced to use email, which you can save.
My advice is never respond predictably – change the typwriter keys, never do anything that makes you look crazy, never do anything that he will know you did, never show fear or do anything that a fearful person would do.
It might be a good idea to talk to your local police chief though, because you need to get a feel for what kind of response you can expect from the police. For all you know, he has cops in his backpocket just like mine did.
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skylar says:
Justus,
Hi, are you referring to the post you made about the word “genuinely”? Yeah he did use that word ALOT, now that you mention it.
The truth about his mother is that SHE WAS calling me all the time, asking me: “what’s wrong with Spath?” “Why did he call me up and call me a c**t?” That’s what happened when he lost it and was breaking up with me. He went bazerk on his mom as well.
You see, his hatred toward me and all women, was completely centered on his hatred for his mom, which he had hidden very well for the 25 years I knew him. He did try to triangulate us, but it never worked – at least not on my end and she never seemed to hate me, either. I didn’t LIKE her a lot, but I had compassion and empathy for the struggles she had endured.
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the phoenix says:
Sorry- catching up but had to post this-
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justus5 says:
Panther-that is why I haven’t called my P/N a spath to his face yet. Something told me that would be a bad idea, then he would have one more card to play to “act normal”.<<<
BINGO! Exactly why I won't let on to anything containing the word spath around the house. Just another way to manipulate and undermine and discredit everything and anything they can.
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