Comments on: The nature of the “abusive personality” http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/07/31/the-nature-of-the-abusive-personality/ Wake up to the danger of sociopaths Wed, 08 Feb 2012 07:17:13 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Genevieve79 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/07/31/the-nature-of-the-abusive-personality/comment-page-5/#comment-59090 Genevieve79 Sun, 03 Jan 2010 17:04:59 +0000 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/07/31/the-nature-of-the-abusive-personality/#comment-59090 Yes Pinow I think the difference between one end of the personality disorder spectrum and the worst end is the level of callousness they're capable of. It goes up the closer to APD you go in my view =) xx Yes Pinow I think the difference between one end of the personality disorder spectrum and the worst end is the level of callousness they’re capable of. It goes up the closer to APD you go in my view =) xx

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]]> By: Genevieve79 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/07/31/the-nature-of-the-abusive-personality/comment-page-5/#comment-59089 Genevieve79 Sun, 03 Jan 2010 17:00:00 +0000 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/07/31/the-nature-of-the-abusive-personality/#comment-59089 Lets not get the genuine mental illnesses (based on an imblance in brain chemistry) confused with personality disorders, based on behaviour. Biploar is classed as a brain chemistry imbalance, a 'true' mental illness, as is schizophrenia, depression, anxiety etc. The person with it has little control over it until a successful medication treatment is found. Behavioural change comes into play certainly (from habits developed druing non treatment) but the most initial improvement comes from medication. Most people with genuine 'classic' mental illnesses turn on themselves before on others and have an overdelveloped sense of guilt. The personality disorders on the other hand - antisocial, borderline, histrionic etc - are all behaviourally based and can be very much in the control of the person experiencing it. The most successful treatment is focused more on behaviour than medication, though some medication can play a part. Those with personality disordered tend to lash out and blame everybody else. This is the difference and i feel we have to be careful not to unwittingly insult those suffering against their will with brains that do not work properly to put them in the same category as those who are so self centred they have chose to opt out of society and flout every decency rule there is. I just feel we need to be really clear on this. Nine times out of ten the personality disordered individual knows exactly what they are doing and has chosen this way of life very early on in their development in response to their early environment. I'd even go so far as to say that some are that way before they are born lol, if you believe in that sort of thing! The genuinely mentally ill individual can't help their behaviour and deep down (some hide it very well though pride) feels genuine distress, embarrassment and empathy for those around them upon whom they are a burden. Conversely the personality disordered individual, right from the tiniest hint of borderline up to the most callous psychopath couldn't give a crap. I know because I have worked in mental health before and also I have suffered with chronic depresson for many years. Believe me it is like looking at myself from the outside when I have a bad day because it isn't 'me' it's my crazy brain chemistry! It's a physical problem treated well with medication, I'm probably producng too much or too little of a neurochemical or two, and I feel deep distress for the burden I am on my loved ones and friends when I have a bad day and can't take part in normal life with them. Personality disorders? The problem is not their brain, it is 'them'!! It is who they are, who they have allowed themselves to become and only they can change it. It's amazing how many personality disordered individuals fool doctors and society into putting them into the same category as those of us with genuine mental illnesses. I have a family member like that - bltatantly personality disordered, every antiscoical trait in the DSM IV and yet her psychiatrist suspects she is schizophrenic! Nooooooo!!! I feel like yelling, She's a Sociopath!! It's obvious!! They are not the stuff of Hollywood!! Wakey wakey!!! My reality check for sociopaths is this - my IQ has been tested as being in the top 2%/2.5% of population. Sociopaths are thought to make up as much as 4% of the population right? So get this - you have double the chance of meeting one of them as you have of meeting me, for every one of me there is roughly two of them. And I'm sitting here typing to you right now...you've 'met' me right? Go figure hehe!!!! Sobering thought huh! =D Genevieve xxx Lets not get the genuine mental illnesses (based on an imblance in brain chemistry) confused with personality disorders, based on behaviour.
Biploar is classed as a brain chemistry imbalance, a ‘true’ mental illness, as is schizophrenia, depression, anxiety etc. The person with it has little control over it until a successful medication treatment is found. Behavioural change comes into play certainly (from habits developed druing non treatment) but the most initial improvement comes from medication. Most people with genuine ‘classic’ mental illnesses turn on themselves before on others and have an overdelveloped sense of guilt.
The personality disorders on the other hand – antisocial, borderline, histrionic etc – are all behaviourally based and can be very much in the control of the person experiencing it. The most successful treatment is focused more on behaviour than medication, though some medication can play a part. Those with personality disordered tend to lash out and blame everybody else.
This is the difference and i feel we have to be careful not to unwittingly insult those suffering against their will with brains that do not work properly to put them in the same category as those who are so self centred they have chose to opt out of society and flout every decency rule there is.
I just feel we need to be really clear on this. Nine times out of ten the personality disordered individual knows exactly what they are doing and has chosen this way of life very early on in their development in response to their early environment. I’d even go so far as to say that some are that way before they are born lol, if you believe in that sort of thing!
The genuinely mentally ill individual can’t help their behaviour and deep down (some hide it very well though pride) feels genuine distress, embarrassment and empathy for those around them upon whom they are a burden.
Conversely the personality disordered individual, right from the tiniest hint of borderline up to the most callous psychopath couldn’t give a crap.
I know because I have worked in mental health before and also I have suffered with chronic depresson for many years. Believe me it is like looking at myself from the outside when I have a bad day because it isn’t ‘me’ it’s my crazy brain chemistry! It’s a physical problem treated well with medication, I’m probably producng too much or too little of a neurochemical or two, and I feel deep distress for the burden I am on my loved ones and friends when I have a bad day and can’t take part in normal life with them.
Personality disorders? The problem is not their brain, it is ‘them’!! It is who they are, who they have allowed themselves to become and only they can change it.
It’s amazing how many personality disordered individuals fool doctors and society into putting them into the same category as those of us with genuine mental illnesses. I have a family member like that – bltatantly personality disordered, every antiscoical trait in the DSM IV and yet her psychiatrist suspects she is schizophrenic! Nooooooo!!! I feel like yelling, She’s a Sociopath!! It’s obvious!! They are not the stuff of Hollywood!! Wakey wakey!!!
My reality check for sociopaths is this – my IQ has been tested as being in the top 2%/2.5% of population. Sociopaths are thought to make up as much as 4% of the population right? So get this – you have double the chance of meeting one of them as you have of meeting me, for every one of me there is roughly two of them. And I’m sitting here typing to you right now…you’ve ‘met’ me right?
Go figure hehe!!!! Sobering thought huh! =D
Genevieve xxx

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]]> By: OxDrover http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/07/31/the-nature-of-the-abusive-personality/comment-page-5/#comment-59063 OxDrover Sun, 03 Jan 2010 04:12:04 +0000 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/07/31/the-nature-of-the-abusive-personality/#comment-59063 Dear DW, That's the thing, they create their own "reality" which is NOT real at all, but their excuses, their lies to make you crazy, this is called "gaslighting" and that's what it means, it is from and old movie where a guy tried to convince his wife she was crazy. This gaslighting thing is just that, it is their twisting of reality. Saying you said or did something that is not true, acting like they believe it. Read steve's lastest article about a "defense mechanisim"--the thing is that the PAST IS BEING REPEATED NOW, so the past IS IMPORTANT because he wants to focus on ONE item and not on the WHOLE PICTURE. That's what I was doing with my son C, who is NOT a psychopath like my other son, but unfortunately, was not acting responsibly and I kept focusing on the "now" and ignoring the REPEATED PATTERN. I asked him to leave my house and he can fend for himself. I am only responsible for raising him once, but for continuing to do it. He is 40 years old, time to grow up, guy. It breaks my heart, he has many good qualities, and not everyone who acts irresponsibaly is psychopathic but if it is a question of LIES OR TRUTH, vote for believing the trust, believing what you SEE not what excuses they give! It is difficult because we WANT to believe the best about those we love. But the thing is if someone keeps on repeating the same behavior over and over and doesn't take responsibility for his/her actions they are not going to. ' They are toxic and don't do you any good at all. You can't fix him, and he won't fix himself. Good luck, sweetie, be strong. You are. I just fell apart for 48 hours this week, but I am working on getting back to where I was, peaceful, chaos-free life and my home is a LIE-FREE ZONE. No liars allowed. You are my son/friend/mother/lover etc. and you LIE, well now you are a GONE SOB! BYE! Dear DW,

That’s the thing, they create their own “reality” which is NOT real at all, but their excuses, their lies to make you crazy, this is called “gaslighting” and that’s what it means, it is from and old movie where a guy tried to convince his wife she was crazy.

This gaslighting thing is just that, it is their twisting of reality. Saying you said or did something that is not true, acting like they believe it.

Read steve’s lastest article about a “defense mechanisim”–the thing is that the PAST IS BEING REPEATED NOW, so the past IS IMPORTANT because he wants to focus on ONE item and not on the WHOLE PICTURE.

That’s what I was doing with my son C, who is NOT a psychopath like my other son, but unfortunately, was not acting responsibly and I kept focusing on the “now” and ignoring the REPEATED PATTERN. I asked him to leave my house and he can fend for himself. I am only responsible for raising him once, but for continuing to do it. He is 40 years old, time to grow up, guy. It breaks my heart, he has many good qualities, and not everyone who acts irresponsibaly is psychopathic but if it is a question of LIES OR TRUTH, vote for believing the trust, believing what you SEE not what excuses they give! It is difficult because we WANT to believe the best about those we love. But the thing is if someone keeps on repeating the same behavior over and over and doesn’t take responsibility for his/her actions they are not going to.
‘
They are toxic and don’t do you any good at all. You can’t fix him, and he won’t fix himself.

Good luck, sweetie, be strong. You are. I just fell apart for 48 hours this week, but I am working on getting back to where I was, peaceful, chaos-free life and my home is a LIE-FREE ZONE. No liars allowed. You are my son/friend/mother/lover etc. and you LIE, well now you are a GONE SOB! BYE!

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]]> By: DancingWarrior http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/07/31/the-nature-of-the-abusive-personality/comment-page-5/#comment-59047 DancingWarrior Sat, 02 Jan 2010 20:17:03 +0000 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/07/31/the-nature-of-the-abusive-personality/#comment-59047 OxDrover, Haven't seen your reply here until now. Thank you for telling me about your son. My husband says he KNOWS that his actions have hurt me, says he is SORRY that he's hurt be, he admits that I couldn't have helped fix marriage because he wouldn't HEAR me years ago and wouldn't LET me. Sounds good. But when I tell him that the old behaviors may have different packaging today, but the core issue is still here, and I list the past behaviors "punching holes in walls, kicking file cabinets, breaking down door jambs" he gets angry and says it's in the past, or justifies himself that he did this BECAUSE he was afraid I'd blind the baby by exposing the crib to sunlight, or BECAUSE I said I'd jump off the bridge with the baby (which I never said and it's totally out of character for me to say). So then, the above apologies seem totally phoney because since I separated from him and brought up these violent behaviors, he has looked for a rationalization. I have such a hard time getting over "magical thinking" about his good side, being smart, loyal, funny, devoted, reliable. I FORGET the inexcusable behaviors that have made me alone, hurt, unhappy. I am having a real hard time letting go of him, and taking care of myself. DW OxDrover,
Haven’t seen your reply here until now. Thank you for telling me about your son.

My husband says he KNOWS that his actions have hurt me, says he is SORRY that he’s hurt be, he admits that I couldn’t have helped fix marriage because he wouldn’t HEAR me years ago and wouldn’t LET me. Sounds good.

But when I tell him that the old behaviors may have different packaging today, but the core issue is still here, and I list the past behaviors “punching holes in walls, kicking file cabinets, breaking down door jambs” he gets angry and says it’s in the past, or justifies himself that he did this BECAUSE he was afraid I’d blind the baby by exposing the crib to sunlight, or BECAUSE I said I’d jump off the bridge with the baby (which I never said and it’s totally out of character for me to say). So then, the above apologies seem totally phoney because since I separated from him and brought up these violent behaviors, he has looked for a rationalization.

I have such a hard time getting over “magical thinking” about his good side, being smart, loyal, funny, devoted, reliable. I FORGET the inexcusable behaviors that have made me alone, hurt, unhappy.

I am having a real hard time letting go of him, and taking care of myself.

DW

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]]> By: sotired http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/07/31/the-nature-of-the-abusive-personality/comment-page-5/#comment-57101 sotired Tue, 08 Dec 2009 17:38:53 +0000 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/07/31/the-nature-of-the-abusive-personality/#comment-57101 ErinBrock, Sorry to hear your battle but if we're here at LB we've had one. It's so difficult tio believe like you said "it was all about HIM." Glad to hear you are cancer free too. NC is good and finally I do feel the empowerment. Hoping the empowerment will stay around, I'm NEVER going back to a relationship with these traits in it. I know I could relapse because I do believe I had/have an addiction to these personalities so by working on me maybe I will stay healthier. henry, I pulled it up and ummm...... hope you are doing good today and have found many of your posts helpful. gotta run, never have enough time to stay here very long and then I lose my spot :( ErinBrock,
Sorry to hear your battle but if we’re here at LB we’ve had one. It’s so difficult tio believe like you said “it was all about HIM.” Glad to hear you are cancer free too. NC is good and finally I do feel the empowerment. Hoping the empowerment will stay around, I’m NEVER going back to a relationship with these traits in it. I know I could relapse because I do believe I had/have an addiction to these personalities so by working on me maybe I will stay healthier.

henry,
I pulled it up and ummm…… hope you are doing good today and have found many of your posts helpful.

gotta run, never have enough time to stay here very long and then I lose my spot :(

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]]> By: henry http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/07/31/the-nature-of-the-abusive-personality/comment-page-5/#comment-57096 henry Tue, 08 Dec 2009 16:26:37 +0000 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/07/31/the-nature-of-the-abusive-personality/#comment-57096 who pulled up this old thread? I can't believe I told that joke here.. who pulled up this old thread? I can’t believe I told that joke here..

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]]> By: ErinBrock http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/07/31/the-nature-of-the-abusive-personality/comment-page-5/#comment-57083 ErinBrock Tue, 08 Dec 2009 05:19:06 +0000 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/07/31/the-nature-of-the-abusive-personality/#comment-57083 Sotired: So glad your NOT in the C club! It's a sucky club to belong to and one none of us join willingly! BUT......S's sure don't give a shit about Cancer or anything else...... The S was a horrid mess to me during my battle......also to his father......who wasn;t as lucky as me.... He took all his fights to the family during his fathers battle....it was all about HIM.....always is! the last time he saw his father....he went to the hospital sat with him, and then called me....to schmooze me......up......I nailed him, because at this point.....WTF was I to do.....He wanted ME to find a specialist for his father.....he sat next to his dad and unloaded what a bitch i was etc...blah, blah.....THIS MAN WAS DYING.....and all he could do was talk about himself or HIS marital problems.....from there he went to his mothers home, who was devastated with her husbands illness and the S started total shit with her and his aunt......she asked him to leave her home.......... This was about 1.5 years ago.......father passed, S refused to show up at funeral.....so he could draw attention to himself AGAIN......They just hate anyone else getting attention......dead or alive!!!! He exploited me during my illness.......same sort of shit.....but did it under my nose in my community.....when one sort of attention bored him, he turned up the heat....turned it into I was dying.....then I faked it.....WTF???? NO NORMAL PERSON would EVER exploit concern for a 'loved one'. Cancer was the best gift I ever 'didnt' want'...... I'm cancer free.....walking, talking, fighting, and raising awareness.....and I am FREE...... It's mind boggeling how they are so callouse. Don't expect anything less from them!!!! Congrats on your 5 weeks.....by now you should be feeling the empowerment of "I can do this'.....and also noticing the power you have over him by going NC! NC is a wonderful choice!!!!! Congrats again!!!! Sotired:
So glad your NOT in the C club! It’s a sucky club to belong to and one none of us join willingly!
BUT……S’s sure don’t give a shit about Cancer or anything else……
The S was a horrid mess to me during my battle……also to his father……who wasn;t as lucky as me….
He took all his fights to the family during his fathers battle….it was all about HIM…..always is! the last time he saw his father….he went to the hospital sat with him, and then called me….to schmooze me……up……I nailed him, because at this point…..WTF was I to do…..He wanted ME to find a specialist for his father…..he sat next to his dad and unloaded what a bitch i was etc…blah, blah…..THIS MAN WAS DYING…..and all he could do was talk about himself or HIS marital problems…..from there he went to his mothers home, who was devastated with her husbands illness and the S started total shit with her and his aunt……she asked him to leave her home……….
This was about 1.5 years ago…….father passed, S refused to show up at funeral…..so he could draw attention to himself AGAIN……They just hate anyone else getting attention……dead or alive!!!!

He exploited me during my illness…….same sort of shit…..but did it under my nose in my community…..when one sort of attention bored him, he turned up the heat….turned it into I was dying…..then I faked it…..WTF????
NO NORMAL PERSON would EVER exploit concern for a ‘loved one’.

Cancer was the best gift I ever ‘didnt’ want’……
I’m cancer free…..walking, talking, fighting, and raising awareness…..and I am FREE……

It’s mind boggeling how they are so callouse. Don’t expect anything less from them!!!!

Congrats on your 5 weeks…..by now you should be feeling the empowerment of “I can do this’…..and also noticing the power you have over him by going NC!

NC is a wonderful choice!!!!!
Congrats again!!!!

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]]> By: sotired http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/07/31/the-nature-of-the-abusive-personality/comment-page-5/#comment-57082 sotired Tue, 08 Dec 2009 05:03:59 +0000 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/07/31/the-nature-of-the-abusive-personality/#comment-57082 sotired says: Just to make myself clear I don not have cancer. Sorry I didn’t make that clear but didn’t want any one to think otherwise. Thanks and goodnight. (Report abusive comment) Tuesday, 8 December 2009 @ 12:00am Post a Comment Logged in as sotired. Logout » Okay , this should have been on another post. Obviously I am sotired. :( Should have been on THIS post. Sorry. sotired says:
Just to make myself clear I don not have cancer. Sorry I didn’t make that clear but didn’t want any one to think otherwise.

Thanks and goodnight.

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Tuesday, 8 December 2009 @ 12:00am

Post a Comment
Logged in as sotired. Logout »

Okay , this should have been on another post. Obviously I am sotired. :(

Should have been on THIS post. Sorry.

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]]> By: sotired http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/07/31/the-nature-of-the-abusive-personality/comment-page-5/#comment-57079 sotired Tue, 08 Dec 2009 04:51:32 +0000 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/07/31/the-nature-of-the-abusive-personality/#comment-57079 HeCates Path Said: And to say he ultimately brought me to my knees when he unexpectedly broke off our relationship with no warning was an understatement… and little did I know that he would continue playing cat and mouse with me for the next several months in various capacities and stringing me along with his flirtations, with me waiting to see when he would cross the line to sleep with me again… now I know the answer to that Q: *never* if *I* kept waiting and watching for him to make a move, and within 5 minutes, LOL, if I would’ve sent the message that he was invisible to me, cuz we all know that when I ultimately did cut him off from my life in any capacity and ignored him publicly, it resulted in all hell breaking loose with his false police charges against me… MYSELF, Sotired --------- At no contact for 5 weeks, the longest we haven't talked or seen each other in 8 years I am feeling creepy like any time the next shoe will drop. Last we spoke he wasn't playing cat/mouse with me so much, but, he is still what he is. He didn't call back when he said he would and that to me says if he cared he would have. I was undergoing medical testing for cancer and he didn't follow up. Now, I feel sad pity and getting to a peaceful place in my journey of healing and I'm scared of *what?* Peace!?! Fear is ruling again and I have to deal with it again I guess and nothing else has happened. (PTSD? yes I guess so.) One of, just one of his questions I now see in hindsight was, "do you like rollercoasters?" and I honestly answered yes. HOW revealing is THaT????? Again today I'm so glad to have this place to go when I need to and not dialing any more unbelieving friends or friends that want to scream how stupid could I be. HeCates Path Said:
And to say he ultimately brought me to my knees when he unexpectedly broke off our relationship with no warning was an understatement… and little did I know that he would continue playing cat and mouse with me for the next several months in various capacities and stringing me along with his flirtations, with me waiting to see when he would cross the line to sleep with me again… now I know the answer to that Q: *never* if *I* kept waiting and watching for him to make a move, and within 5 minutes, LOL, if I would’ve sent the message that he was invisible to me, cuz we all know that when I ultimately did cut him off from my life in any capacity and ignored him publicly, it resulted in all hell breaking loose with his false police charges against me…

MYSELF, Sotired ———
At no contact for 5 weeks, the longest we haven’t talked or seen each other in 8 years I am feeling creepy like any time the next shoe will drop.

Last we spoke he wasn’t playing cat/mouse with me so much, but, he is still what he is. He didn’t call back when he said he would and that to me says if he cared he would have. I was undergoing medical testing for cancer and he didn’t follow up.

Now, I feel sad pity and getting to a peaceful place in my journey of healing and I’m scared of *what?* Peace!?! Fear is ruling again and I have to deal with it again I guess and nothing else has happened. (PTSD? yes I guess so.)

One of, just one of his questions I now see in hindsight was, “do you like rollercoasters?” and I honestly answered yes. HOW revealing is THaT?????

Again today I’m so glad to have this place to go when I need to and not dialing any more unbelieving friends or friends that want to scream how stupid could I be.

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]]> By: OxDrover http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/07/31/the-nature-of-the-abusive-personality/comment-page-5/#comment-57077 OxDrover Tue, 08 Dec 2009 04:14:09 +0000 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/07/31/the-nature-of-the-abusive-personality/#comment-57077 Dancing Warrior, Let me tell you about my son, he really is a great guy, he is very bright and charming, and he used to help me treat sick animals and would bring home stray dogs and take care of them, and you know he is SUCH a good guy, when he is not killing people (He is in prison for murder) Warrior, even psychopaths are not "mean" all the time 24/7 sometimes they pretend to be nice guys, just like my son does, but while he was being "nice to me" the last time I saw him, he was at that very moment, plotting to KILL ME. I realize this is a pretty out there thing, but NO ONE is "nice" all the time and no one is "mean" all the time, but what a person;'s character is determined by whether or not they realize or care how badly they hurt others. Or if they can truly repent and CHANGE THEIR BEHAVIOR. If your husband is abusive to you, it does not matter if he qualifies for psychopath or any other word passed "jerk"---does that mean you should stay with anyone who will not accept responsibility fo rhis bad behavior or even realisticly try to change? Dancing Warrior,

Let me tell you about my son, he really is a great guy, he is very bright and charming, and he used to help me treat sick animals and would bring home stray dogs and take care of them, and you know he is SUCH a good guy, when he is not killing people (He is in prison for murder)

Warrior, even psychopaths are not “mean” all the time 24/7 sometimes they pretend to be nice guys, just like my son does, but while he was being “nice to me” the last time I saw him, he was at that very moment, plotting to KILL ME.

I realize this is a pretty out there thing, but NO ONE is “nice” all the time and no one is “mean” all the time, but what a person;’s character is determined by whether or not they realize or care how badly they hurt others. Or if they can truly repent and CHANGE THEIR BEHAVIOR.

If your husband is abusive to you, it does not matter if he qualifies for psychopath or any other word passed “jerk”—does that mean you should stay with anyone who will not accept responsibility fo rhis bad behavior or even realisticly try to change?

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