Dr. Donald G. Dutton explains that personality disorder is the cause of domestic violence
PDF For the past several years Donna and I have attended the Battered Mothers Custody Conference and so we have been able to interact with domestic violence experts. Both of us were surprised to discover that although most of the worst spousal assault perpetrators have personality profiles indicative of sociopathy/psychopathy this fact is not recognized by many experts.
I have worked to become well acquainted with the scientific literature regarding intimate partner violence because I teach psychology of gender and because I very much want to understand why people who should know better often fail to diagnose sociopathy in perpetrators. This failure to diagnose has lead to intimate partner violence being erroneously interpreted as a gender issue related to male domination of females. This flies in the face of the real statistics which show that there are equal numbers of female perpetrators. The failure to recognize personality disturbance in female perpetrators has lead to male victims being further traumatized.
I am happy to report that the leading expert on intimate partner violence, Professor Donald Dutton of the University of British Columbia is fighting to correct the above misconceptions and to help people understand that domestic violence is perpetrated by disordered men and women.
In 1979, he cofounded the Assaultive Husbands Project, a court-mandated treatment program for men convicted of spousal assault. He has frequently served as an expert witness in civil trials involving intimate abuse and in criminal trials involving family violence. Dr. Dutton has published over 100 papers and four books, including Domestic Assault of Women, The Batterer: A Psychological Profile, Rethinking Domestic Violence and The Abusive Personality Violence and Control in Intimate Relationships.
I just finished reading The Abusive Personality and recommend it highly. In this book Dr. Dutton details the profile and personality structure of both male and female batterers. He makes a compelling case for his contention that personality disturbance is behind domestic violence in Western society. Next week I will summarize the personality profile of “Abusers” and explain how abuse relates to sociopathy/psychopathy.
written by Liane Leedom, M.D. • Permalink •
ANewLily says:
Blueskies and Sabrina, I did read this last night but didn’t post at all because I was too tired.
However, I have read many diatribes like this on from Advoc8 in my 7 years of research into personality disorders. My conclusion is that these attitudes (usually from men) stem from their experiences of being the victim of their female spouse’s FALSE accusations Maybe I shouldn’t call them “diatribes” because I perceive they are trying to understand their experiences as we are try with ours.
I think it is much more complex than I am describing but it is true that women’s battle against DV, especially in the courts and in child custody cases, are harmed terribly by the FALSE accusations against the male spouses.
With no intention to counter any other’s contentions, I have had a great deal of trouble through these 7 years sorting out the misinformation from valid research. And see much disagreement (possibly subjective) on the part of “experts.”
Thus, I think (for me) I will stick to real-life stories of LFers and acquaintances. But, to support experts like our Dr. Leedom in her quest for the truth.
Lies are the opposite of truth. Lies distort our perception of reality. Lies cause confusion and chaos. Lies hurt people. One lie can expand as the ripples caused by a stone thrown in water. One of the 10 commandments is not to bear false witness against our neighbors. so, falsehood has been “around” for a long time.
I think our real enemy is falsehood of every kind and in any arena. Misinformation develops from falsehood of perception, belief, subjective analysis.
Sorry, I’m getting in too deep LOL.
All I have is my own subjective experience. I have had only one encounter with one physically abusive narcissiopath with no conscience whose lies were almost invisible because he was so expertly covert. I never once in the nearly 50 years with him struck back after his “out of the blue” and nonsensical attacks on me. My conscience is clear that nothing I did or didn’t do caused the abusive effect. Instead, rather than flighting or fleeing, I froze. Instinctively I knew my very survival depended upon “freezing.”
I can’t but believe there are many other experiences like mine — and none of them ever get anywhere near becoming part of a research study. That fact alone would sway the statistics, I should think.
I, too, disagreed with most of Advoc8′s presentation of “statistics” but I think my perception that he has been “burned” by a female N/S/P might be a correct explanation
He hasn’t returned after his post. A supposition might be made that his intent was to disrupt our site. But, if he was previously “burned” as all of us have been, he probably needs for his own healing to be a member of our group.
Note that I am only thinking and philosophying “outloud.” I hope I have not offended anyone!!
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ANewLily says:
Dr. Leedom, I have no problem with Dr. Dutton’s assessment that personality disorders are the cause of DV. It is the ONLY explanation for my own experience. A “normal” man would never have mistreated me in this way, I don’t believe.
But, I thought (was taught) that a personality disorder was “just” an invasive and persistent disorder of a person’s personality, not counted as “mental illness.” Was I taught wrong?
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sabrina says:
Anewlily,I have just blogged details of my DV courtdate (one of them anyways) on “when the pain caused by a S dosent stop- If you saw it, I found prejudice type comments” toward the abused”to be from a female atty as well as a male DA. I blogged what happened, what was said. No gender bashing bias. This Tom whatever made zero reference to any “pain” he had personally experienced and presented himself as an advocate for WOMEN, MEN, and chiLDREN. A HORRIFYING thought. If personal bias is this evident by a simple post from him, he definately should remove himself out of ANY advocate group and definately OUT OF THIS GROUP if he CHOOSES to offend, and gender bash as he makes many, many references to that. Another thing, If I blog something MISLEADING or wrong info OR PAINFUL to others – I hope someone will let me know immediately. “BEING BURNED” by male or female perpetrators IS NO REASON to lash out at the whole population with LIES AND DECEIT. I dont believe in reincarnation, but this guy coulda been out of Salem’s witch hunts! I disagree wholeheartedly that INTOLERANCE to this slander is NECESSARY in protecting the integrity of this site!!! My opinion- some of us have been “way too kind” and tolerable of his LIES. Notice- He vanished like alot of dark entities do as they have “tried” to infiltrate into the light.
I know we have been warned to IGNORE these type people BUT NOT WHEN their lies could mislead someone into false security! I am willing to research ANYthing that this person claims- but just as he seems to have “VANISHED”, his so called statistics seem to have as well. Truth is Truth.
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sabrina says:
I meant 2 say- I “agree” wholeheartedly that intolerance to this slander is necessary to protecting the integrity to this site!!
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ANewLily says:
Sabrina, I am eager to read about your court case. Will do right after I eat lunch
For right now, I want to reassure you that I am not tolerating Advo’s points at all. Just that I have seen this attitude before and usually these points he brings out (and tries to justify with research) is based on the posters’ bad experience.
I hope I made sense. I’m hungry!!
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sabrina says:
Anewlily, and ALL-
I understand, and believe me I am trying hard to move past this as I have been triggered.
I dont mean any offense to others here that are trying to help each other and I see that. I must warn, my post re :court date involved a lot of venting from me. I just had to tell you guys my feelings- attitude and all because so many dont understand the frustration in all of this and at LF people get it. I have tried to look at the court situation objectively, but having been there in the thick of it, the demeanor of the court was uncounciable. am ok- I have not lost anything- in fact I am happy to have put myself out there to create HUGE papertrails of the violence this man will continue in his trail of tears.
I feel obligated to stand up for abuse and the intolerance of it.
My anger stems mainly from knowing how the abused who are much, much worse off than myself (in the chains of abuse) must feel so condemned and alone. Im angry that I dont feel I can make much difference in the world of ignorance and negligence regarding the victims rights.
HOWEVER- THis DV court was a WIN for all of us regardless! One person at a time speaking out DOES get awareness out there. We must speak up for those who are silenced by the hand of their abuser.
In that, I am humbled and thankful for my part (sometimes seeming very futile) for awareness and hopefuly justice.
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OxDrover says:
Dear Sabrina,
I think it was Mother theresa who said “we can’t do great things, but we can do small things with GREAT LOVE” It is wonderful when someone like MaryJo buttafuco (how ever you spell it) gets a book out there that highlights the “ordinary” psychopath and hopefully will reach a larger audience than we can (GMA etc) but each of us can reach out to others, here on LF, and in our personal lives when we see someone who is in danger, or in pain from past abuse.
The great religions of the world have been spread one person to one person, great movements in the world have been spread by one person reacihing out. If each of us helps one other person, and they help one other (at least) the chain of love and support continues to spread—and through the generations as well, when we teach our children.
Sabrina, don’t down grade the power that you have. Reaching out to ONE other person who is in pain, relieving that person’s pain and holding their hand, validating them, that is AN AWESOME AWESOME DEED. ((((HUGS)))))
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Tilly says:
Oxy:
I too was of the generation who used to smother myself in the baby oil and lie on the beach in a bikini (no hat or sunglasses), for the whole day (ESPECIALLY MIDDAY) on the Auzzie beach with a group of girls for the whole summer year in and year out! Our intention was to be as dark as possible. (Our aboriginal girlfriends sat happily in the shade all day laughing their heads off at us).
Then we found out that there was no ozone layer left above/around us. So for the next twenty years we lathered sun protection cream 30+ all over us and our kids.
Now all the young ones are blaming us for the skin cancer CAUSED by the SP30+!They are telling us it is WORSE than the sun and you must buy this REALLY expensive cream in the health food shop or cover yourself with ZINC cream. (Because you CAN”T keep out of the sun if you go outside in OZ in summer.) And I can’t afford an airconditioner anymore.
So I wonder what will happen next, since we have such a high rate of skin cancer over here. My cousin died from it – from skin cancer from sun exposure when he was 30. Its not a nice way to go.
EC: “One of the worst things about an encounter is that my visceral reaction to them is an overwhelming urge to kick their arses up between their ears. This is similar to the urge to stomp a cockroach, and this instinct is probably impossible to entirely overcome.”
I have that same reaction EC and also the whole “skin crawl thing”. It took me all my life to stomp on a cock roach, ( although i could spray them). Now i can’t do it fast enough, in QLD they are everwhere…especially in “good” restaurants!
OXY!!
I LOVED YOUR LAST POST TO ME>>>THANKYOU OXY!!! I have to admit I learned that one about looking at them naked (nekid) when I was about 8! I used to do it then…imagine them naked on the toilet to take the fear of them away. Some of the things that happened to them in my mind when they were naked on the toilet were pretty funny! One of them was Dr Kildare coming in and flushing them down along with their CH#T!! lol!!
But I will add to it you boinking her and I will comment on her lovely new threads and I will NEVER forget my NETWORK and my 12 steps. xoxoxxoxoxoxo
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Tilly says:
P.S.:
Its only now I get the subconscious slip with Dr Kildare, i.e. DARE TO KILL! lol!
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Tilly says:
Thankyou ErinB for your heartfelt words…they mean a lot to me. xo
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OxDrover says:
Tilly, in the days before sun screen, my grandmother worked in the cotton fields with the family, and my egg donor as a young child. My GM covered them with long sleeves and huge bonnets. They were (as I am) all very fair skinned. Even though they were outside all day in the hot sun working, they were all very pale when they took off their “burkas” but I would not listen to her and went bare headed, and short sleeved and when Iwas in Africa I BAKED brown as saddle leather and burned and peeled many many times. Then moved to California and did the same thing at the beach again. Today my skin is apple doll wrinkled and with brown “sun spots” and small cancers (which I keep a close check on with a skin specialist doc)
Son D is very blonde (women would die for his ashe blonde hair) and also because of the burns he received in the aircraft crash 5 yrs ago, he must be protected from the sun. He is very good about wearing long sleeves and hats, though I can’t get him to put on sun screen. Son C is as hard headed as I was, so gets more tanned, but he does have the ability to tan without being basicly dark to start with (those two things are inherited separately) but I guess we all do things we know we shouldn’t like eat too much, exercise too little, smoke, etc. it’s a shame that everyone in the world isn’t as PERFECT as you and me Tilly! LOL ROTFLMAO At least we can “preach” a good “sermon” even if we don’t always live it ourselves. ha ha (((hugs)))) I hope your VISIONS keep you sane while you are around that woman!!!! I will be thinking of you and I’m behind you 100%.
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ANewLily says:
Oxy, did your grandmother ever tell you that women of her day covered their skin from the sun because MEN preferred women with pale skin — as if they were pampered “city girls”? They didn’t do it for fear of skin cancer, believe it or not. Surely there were evidences of skin cancer back then but I don’t think medicine was advanced enough yet to have made the connection.
I think I was in my 30′s before I heard the connection of sun exposure and cancer!
Interesing, that my mother, too, (and her seven sisters) covered theiLir arms with their brothers’ stockings and wore wide brimmed hats as they worked in the fields. The four brothers were fighting in WWI. The girls did the field work. (My mom was 2nd youngest of 11.)
Like other teen girls of my generation, I spent my summers happily at the beach (of a lake). I never even wore baby oil because if I did, I couldn’t get a tan (or even a sunburn) at all. Frustrating! LOL! A few of our group were African-Americans and Native Americans (neither group had a “name” back then) and they had a great time teasing us “palefaces.”!! (It was interesting to me that one of the black girls had to slather herself with oil to keep from getting sunburned.)
Surprisingly, I never have had an occasion of skin cancer but neither do I have wrinkled skin at my age. (I think they WILL come some day!) I learned that the reason I didn’t “need” baby oil was because my skin was naturally oily already. Just this year, at age 72.5, have I had to apply lotion to my face (when I remember.) The oil must be drying up!
My conclusion is that there are a myriad of things that are GENETIC. Neither of my parents had wrinkled skin at their passing, at ages 67 and 76. I don’t know about my aunts because they have all passed and I hadn’t seen them at older ages.
Point of my post, really, is that I am truly beginnng to put more emphasis on the possibility of personality disorders being more genetic than nurture.
None of my mother’s 10 siblings were “disordered”. They didn’t marry men who were “disordered” and they didn’t raise “disordered” children. (Can’t comment on their further descendents because I have no opportunity to know them.)
I can’t comment on my father’s family, either, because both of his parents were passed before I was even born.
But, even though I didn’t know my EX as he was growing up, I did learn that there were A LOT of disordered persons; his parents and in his extended family back several generations.
I am most regretful that my children were fathered by such a man. And, yet, I’m glad, too, for the opportunity to learn more about how “the sins of the fathers” which are passed on to future generations, as noted in the Bible.
I’m also glad to know that genetic predispositions do NOT have to be permanent. They can be “conquered” by choice, by free will.
Look at how many wonderful people on this site have turned their “generational” curses around! Praise the Lord!
Sorry, folks. My weekend break has been productive with much introspection. I’ve become quite philosophical, I think. So, I hope you can follow my thinking in the words I find hard to express — and how I perceive them to be linked to the topic of this thread.
Maybe no one cares. That’s okay. There is value to me in typing out my thoughts when they are inspired by something someone else has written.
My brother used to say that I think too much. I was never offended because I knew it was true!
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Tilly says:
ANewLily:
I love your last post! Many years ago, when I lived with my ex P husband I used to be so worried about that paragraph in the Bible that said that the “sins of the fathers” would be passed onto the children. I used to ask ministers and preachers about it, but none of them had an answer that satisfied me. Yet it made me shudder.
It is only this year that I realised that psychopathic behaviour can be genetic too. When I finally realized, I immediately remembered that passage in the Bible ! UH HUH!
The “baby oil” we have here is an oil with NO PROTECTION that literally makes you FRY IN THE SUN! The oil was made to MAKE you burn FASTER! (and it sure did!)
(Just now, I am on a break from the P teacher)…..
Oxy:
Thankyou again for your support. I so agree with you about the domestic violence issues. I have been in many shelters with my kids over the years. These shelters are for the REALLY desperate as the conditions there are pretty bad. I’ve seen that the majority of the ones that do go back to their P iether die or might as well be dead.
The last girl I saw I will never forget. Words could never describe what was left of her, I would rather be dead. She broke my heart. It took me days to recover from just seeing her. I tried to help her. I told her I understood why she went back in the past, but not anymore, not seeing her like that.
I have just realised that you Yanks are much more LITERAL than us down under . Our language is FULL of irony, so I will have to be more careful from now on. I hope I havn’t offended too many in the past with it.
Back to my PHD in psychopaths, with my p teacher… a wonderful, walking example.
Thankyou for being there!
xo
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ANewLily says:
Thanks, Tilly, for your interest in my post. I read it back to myself and was “horrified” (not really) that I said my mother had seven sisters. She only had six sisters, she was the seventh one.
Oh, well, I’m an English teacher interested in language and quite a bit mathematically challenged!
Just for the record, Tilly, I am a “Yank” raised in the north but there are a lot of people who still consider them confederates (the south). In medical school, we lived on campus in 2 story “quonset hut” type housing. One couple divided the floors by a “Mason/Dixon line” because the “Yankees” lived upstairs and the other couple were born and raised in Texas, the south. It was all in fun, though.
As a language specialist, it would be interesting to examine the Australia language as you mention — with lots of irony in it. New info for me. Thanks!
I hope you are coping with the P teacher as well as you seem to be! I’m proud of you!
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BloggerT7165 says:
Sabrina,
You asked a question (I am paraphrasing it) to Dr. Leedom about where some of the stats about the DV and numbers are coming from. I wanted to try and answer that in a hopefully respectful way.
DV places are slowly changing to make this a gender neutral issue with the understanding that it is a human rights issue and not a gender issue. Numbers depend on how you ask the questions, what you measure (i.e. reported to police versus self report, etc) and various other issues. There are numerous articles out over the past decade talking about male victims of DV, female victims of DV by other females, etc.
My personal stance is that even one person being abused is one to many and polarizing the issue into a gender argument hurts everyone. Anyone who has been hurt deserves our compassion and help.
Now for the stats question. Here is one example from the Dunedin study – About 27 percent of women and 34 percent of men among the Dunedin study members reported they had been physically abused by their partner. About 37 percent of women and 22 percent of men said they had perpetrated the violence. – http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/170018.pdf
There is also a place at California State University that states this:
This bibliography examines 254 scholarly investigations: 199 empirical studies and 55 reviews and/or analyses, which demonstrate that women are as physically aggressive, or more aggressive, than men in their relationships with their spouses or male partners. The aggregate sample size in the reviewed studies exceeds 252,800.
And again I personally think it is one of the major issues of the DV field in trying to polarize the issue into genders instead of making it a human rights issue.
I have over the years dealt with both offenders and victims and have found that assumptions I may make about things like this can be harmful. For example the number of female sexual offenders is much higher than almost anyone can believe. For example In 2004 the US Dept of Education did a study titled “Educator Sexual Misconduct: A Synthesis of Existing Literature” and found that In studies that ask students about offenders, sex differences are less than in adult reports. The 2000 AAUW data indicate that 57.2 percent of all students report a male offender and 42.4 percent a female offender with the Cameron et al. study reporting nearly identical proportions as the 2000 AAUW data (57 percent male offenders vs. 43 percent female offenders) http://www.ed.gov/rschstat/res.....report.pdf.
And even Harvard Medical has this on their patient education website (I only posted a tiny fraction of it here):
Almost 25% of the people surveyed — 28% of women and 19% of men — said there was some violence in their relationship. Women admitted perpetrating more violence (25% versus 11%) as well as being victimized more by violence (19% versus 16%) than men did. According to both men and women, 50% of this violence was reciprocal, that is, involved both parties, and in those cases the woman was more likely to have been the first to strike. – http://www.patienteducationcen.....cid=M0907d
The Domestic Abuse Helpline has services for underserved persons (i.e. male victims, female victims of female abusers, etc) This is one piece from their site “in a recent research report published by the U.S. Department of Justice it is estimated that 4.5 million physical assaults against women and 2.9 million physical assaults against men occur annually. The 2.9 million assaults against men represent 39% of all such assaults. We estimate that males make up between 15-35% of all victims annually.” http://dahmw.org/
Relationships are a complex thing and for all the men, women, and children who have been abused I would hope that the entire system look past gender and take each case as the unique situation that it is. It does not really matter who does what more what matters is that it is wrong, it needs to stop, and the people who have been hurt need compassion, understanding and help.
So I hope this is helpful in understanding where some of the stats may have come from and how the understanding of DV is changing over time. I also hope this comes across as I intended and that is to be respectful and not trigger or upset anyone.
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ErinBrockovich says:
Okay…..call for help here
DOES anyone have any contacts in London, like a PI or Police contacts? I need some local London info…..?
If anyone has any contacts….(I know it’s a reach), but contact Donna and be intouch privately.
THANKS!
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BloggerT7165 says:
Blueskies,
I think the child abuse stats (and I also very much disliked the post by the so called advocate) may have come from the CDC in which they report that:
More women (58%) than men (42%) are perpetrators ofall forms of child maltreatment.1 – http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/dvp/CM_Data_Sheet.pdf
and that came from U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Administration on Children, Youth and Families. Child Maltreatment 2006 [Washington, DC: U.S. Government PrintingOffice, 2008] available at: http://www.childwelfare.gov.
And from the same HHS agency they said this:
In 2007, one or both parents were responsible for 69.9 percent of child abuse or neglect fatalities. More than one-quarter (27.1 percent) of these fatalities were perpetrated by the mother acting alone. – http://www.childwelfare.gov/pu......cfm#perps
For FFY 2007, 56.5 percent of the perpetrators were women, 42.4 percent were men and 1.1 percent were of unknown sex.2 Women typically were younger than men. The median age was 30 years for women and 33 years for men. Of the women who were perpetrators, more than 40 percent (45.0%) were younger than 30 years of age, compared with one-third of the men (34.5%) (figure 5–1). These proportions have remained consistent for the past few years. – http://www.acf.hhs.gov/program.....apter5.htm
But then they also said this – Most fatalities from physical abuse are caused by fathers and other male caregivers. Mothers are most often held responsible for deaths resulting from child neglect (U.S. Advisory Board on Child Abuse and Neglect, 1995).
Though I would think it would be expected for it to be higher because women are, in a majority of cases, the primary care giver for children.
This again shows how tricky numbers can be based on how you ask the questions, definitions, etc.
The one thing that is clear is that it happens way to often regardless of the gender of the person doing it.
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ErinBrockovich says:
Mr. Miller:
Thank you for participating in Lf.
I respectfully ask you, as an advocate for abused ‘families’, men, women and children, that you please do not rely on your ‘statistics’ for advocacy.
You should be concentrating more on advocating than placing blame on female vs male or male vs female. This approach would serve your ‘clients’ better.
If you had a 1 in a million chance of developing cancer…..do you give a crap when you are that one???
Abuse is abuse and no matter who it is perpetriting it, we as parents must protect our children along with ourselves.
It doesn’t matter if you are or are not a feminist……what on earth took you down that road.
My ex S’s own behaviors were seen by the courts, ruled on by the courts and HE didn’t like it!
No perp. male or female, when they feel wronged or ‘lose’ is ever satisfied. Perps must ‘win’, one up, come out on top! At any cost! When they don’t…..it’s punishment time
I do not agree with your passive aggressive statements, villifying women. That is extremely ignorant! How dare you walk down that road, as an advocate? Do you talk this way to your clients? How can you advocate for anyone with such a strong bias?
I will totally agree, both men and women are in the perpetrators role as dv agressors. I will also agree that children are always the victims, no matter who is at fault.
Fault really isn’t the issue…..it’s the ‘change’ that occurs as a result of the violence. As an advocate you should be better prepared to look at the ‘why’ is this behavior occuring, no matter who is the perp, and advocating a safe environment for either man or woman.
Yes, the divorce industry is ugly. But, I do not agree that it villifies men alone. The system is not perfect, far from it……
‘Feminist’ is NOT, in any way, an issue that should be addressed in regards to DV. It is not about feministic issue, has nothing to do with ‘equal rights’, ‘equal pay’. This isn’t about ‘bra burning’?
I invite you to re read your post from anothers viewpoint, I think you may be surprised at yourself.
Have a nice night.
EB
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ErinBrockovich says:
TILLY:
I love your self prepared 12 step program!
Work the program girl…..tailor what you need to get and go after it. DO not let anyone stand in your way of your (PHD!)
We only have us and our shadow……
Take care of YOU!
Keep your strength girl….there are alot of cockroaches to smash……
XXOO
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blueskies says:
Thanks BloggerT165 for that:)That is very interesting. I guess we are pretty much taking the same tack though, and that is that this being a gender issue muddies the waters either way:) This issue of violence is about perpetrators and victims not men and women.
Erin:here is the main contact page for the MET, is this any use? You can call direct or e-mail and they might be able to point you in the direction you are looking for? http://www.met.police.uk/contacts/
blue
xxx
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Tilly says:
THANK YOU ERINBROCKOVICH!
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Tilly says:
Oxy:
I did maintained my 12 steps in the class consistently with my P teacher and it was a huge success. It is working brilliantly so far.
However, there was one thing that concerned me. We had a new girl from South Africa start last semester. She is white and very wealthy. She has lived in Oz for 6 years but in a different state.
She “chose” me as her friend when she came to the class and i have helped her enormously. She got a High Distinction along with me, last semester, for every subject. (Thats the highest you can get).
THE THING IS WHEN I DID MY 12 STEPS TODAY SHE WENT ALL WEIRD.
SHE WAS SILENT MOST OF THE FIVE HOUR CLASS. SHE PRETENDED TO GET A PHONE CALL (she was sitting next to me) AND SAID SHE HAD TO LEAVE EARLY. EVERY TIME I WAS TALKING TO THE TEACHER SHE CAME OVER AND SAID TO ME,”IM GOING NOW” , SHE WOULD WAIT FOR ME TO REACT, I SAID “BYE’, BUT THEN SHE DIDN’T LEAVE. SHE ASKED ME QUESTIONS NON-STOP TRYING TO GET INFO OUT OF ME.
I didn’t notice before, because i was too preoccupied. She was extremely uncomfortable with my new strategy.
I hope I am just over reacting to her like i did when trhe P was on here. But I just realized that she has been my “perfect fake friend”. I pray I am just paranoid and i am wrong.
Or if she is another P, I pray I know for sure when I wake up in the morning and i don’t have to “wonder” whether she is or not for too long.
She was like an “empty dress”, with not one original thought of her own.
Please God let me be wrong.
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learnthelesson says:
Tilly,st
Just remember it is a classroom environment and you can limit your connection to any and all to JUST THAT! You dont even need to wonder if she is a P or not…you can have casusal conversations, you can share your expertise and wisdom about art as much or as little as YOU choose!
Take a step back and a deep breath and tell yourself it really doesnt matter whats going on with her. You are there for your studies you will be kind and courteous to her and you wont let your mind “wander” about her…
Assume she is innocent enough to get through the class with her as an acquaintance. Be yourself…you know how to protect yourself and let people get caught up in their own CHIT… maybe she had an off day or maybe she was feeling left out with all your attention on the teacher… WHO KNOWS? NOT YOUR PROBLEM, RIGHT!
Bring an ipod or ask if music can be played in the class…get back to the main focus and dont be distracted by al the outside noise around you…
Great news about your progress with your teacher. Now nip this in the bud with your classmate too! You know how to keep it at a minimum if youre uncomfortable!!! Be creative and enjoy the moment of the gift of the art class and all you are learning!!!!
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OxDrover says:
STATISTICS can be twisted either accidently or on purpose and are not always a GOOD INDICATOR of what is “truth”–for example: a man with one foot on a red hot stove and the other on a block of ice, is ON THE AVERAGE COMFORTABLE.
While I agree that there are confilcting sets of “statistics” out there about gender participation in violence in the family, it doesn’t mean that ANY of them are VALID. Accepting statistics at “face value” means that you are accepting that the persons who gathered them did so in a scientific and valid manner from valid sources and with a valid method and that they came to the correct conclusion. NOT ALL STATISTICS ARE VALID BECAUSE NOT ALL WERE GATHERED IN A COMPETENT OR COMPLETE MANNER. (for whatever reason)
If REPORTED rape “statistics” were a valid indicator of how many rapes ACTUALLY occur, then the “number of rapes” would be FAR BELOW what we know to be the TRUTH from examining other sources, and realizing that most rape victims do NOT REPORT.
Domestic violence is I think, like “rape” there is a lot more of it goes on than is ever reported or comes to life.
Plus, what is the “level” of “violence,” the severity of “violence”? A woman is driven to distraction and “initiates the violence” by slapping her husband, and he beats her to death? (that is a question)
While I am in agreement that “violence” is NOT gender specific and that women as well as men kill (my own DIL tried to kill my son) I do hold the opinion that the severity of violence within families tends to be worse where men are concerned, than with women, simply because of teh (generally) varying levels of size and strength. Also, any valid “statistics” (if such there were) would vary greatly among different cultures and sub-cultures.
Right now there are more P diagnoses given for men than women, and I think most of us know that this “statistic” is not valid as far as the occurance of “psychopathic traits” among males and females. We also know that more men than women are arrested and incarcerated for violent crimes (of all kinds) and even crimes of all kinds, but that percentage of male vs female inmates IS CHANGING RAPIDLY as law enforcement becomes more gender blind about incarceration for crimes.
Bottom line, our society is violent (by ANY definition of “violence”)…both males and females commit this violence, and both genders perpetuate the violence. Our “justice system” and our “social system” are quite flawed for many reasons as well and do not address any of the problems in a “reasonable” way as far as my opinion is concerned.
While probably not every person who is “guilty” of a “violent act” is a person who would score 30 on the PCL-R, there are too many people in our society who would score 25 or above, and as long as these people are not dealt with in a manner that is SANE and SENSIBLE and REALISTIC, they will continue to perpetuate violence.
The above only applies to PHYSICAL violence, and we all here, I think, agree that the EMOTIONAL, FINANCIAL, and MENTAL VIOLENCE commited by both genders of personality disordered people far surpasses the physical violence, and is just as damaging many times as physical violence.
Psychopathic behavior (by whatever name, sociopath etc) is the ROOT cause, I think of the majority of the ills and pains of our society. If all of that were somehow magically swept away, the things that were left, cancer, poverty, etc. would lDISAPPEAR over night–well, maybe not cancer, but you get the idea.
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OxDrover says:
Tilly,
About your “friend”—LISTEN TO YOUR GUT—doesn’t mean she is a P necessarily but it might mean only that she is shy and picked you as a “friend” because she was needy, BUT at the same time, I suggest that you DO NOT TALK TO ANYONE ABOUT THE TEACHER or what you are doing, because sure if you do someone will RAT YOU OUT to her and then the game is over. You lose. Keeping your mouth shut is a trial fo ryou I know, and you know it is for ME TOO. BOINK us BOTH!!! LOL But I have come a great way along the lines of LEARNING to keep my big yap closed….it is NOT EASY for me.
Just work your 12 step to get througth the term (that was great by the way!!) and keep your cards close to your chest and do not let ANYONE know what is going on.
Unless we move to a “desert island by ourselves” we are going to have to work with, live next door to, etc. Ps for as long as we draw breath, or at least people high in the traits, so we might as well learn how to keep them at “arm’s length” and function in live with them in our spheres.
I realize how fortunate I am to live on the farm where I can be pretty far away from these creeps, but those of you who have to work, go to school, co-parent with, etc. have to “deal with” them in a way that doesn’t let them “get to” you. Hang in Tilly, you’re on your way!!! YOU CAN DO IT!!!! ((((HUGS)))) Oxy
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Tilly says:
Thankyou Oxy:
My “12 STEPS” is just an abbreviation of what Kathy said to me in a post. And yes it worked! Brilliantly!
I told my “fake friend” ( The reason it is important to me to know if she is is because I am trying to get the sign off my forehead that says “psychopaths apply here”. If she is one then I have found out in 6 months later, which is better I guess. But you would not believe the anger i have at myself when i fall for a Ps tricks now. Its like the end of the world to me. Its the same old story, I have helped her for 6 months only to find out she is another vampire..I HATE MYSELF! WHEN WILL I GET IT???????!!!!!!)Yes, at least it was only six months and it wasn’t an intimate relationship with a man who took my home, my dog all my assets and my dignity. It is just a stupid woman using me to get good grades and get in good with the teachers and everyone . Well that nothing. BUT WHY DIDN’T I SEE IT STRAIGHT AWAY????
Now i am going to have to slither away from her like a snake. I told her my “strategy” was to draw pictures up the back like a nerd and talk about psychopaths”. Which is what they all think I do anyway.
By the end of the class my fake friend was going home to look up criminal OZ psychopaths on the net to try to copy me! NOW THATS FUNNY! Lets see what she comes up with!!!lol!~
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Tilly says:
Oxy!
You should hear my p teachers definition of a psychopath! She says, “we are ALL INSANE PSYCHOPATHS UNDERNEATH! She assumed I wanted her to help me to express THAT in my work!! ROTFLTIWM!!!!!(roll on the floor laughing till i wet myself!) lol! xo
I am definitely going to change my degree Oxy, as I need some “fresh air”. However i won’t be able to do that financially until the end of this semester.
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Tilly says:
Changing my degree means moving home and going to a different uni a few hours away from here. Let Go Let GOD. I wish God would just tell me stuff so i didn’t always have to go the long way round.
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Tilly says:
ltl:
Yes I will PRUNE THE WHOLE DARN THORNY BUSH!!! and nip this creepy little bud right in her “no social skills a#se”.
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Tilly says:
All I have to do is paint something (anything) good, let my P teacher take all the credit and I’m home and hosed.
Then slither silently away from my fake friend and she will soon latch onto a new victim.
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sabrina says:
Dear Tilly,
You said “I hate myself! When will I get it??? I very well know the feeling of building trust with someone, then discover the P traits and red flags. It is so frustrating!! BUt when I was discussing this with a friend, she pointed out something that helped me , to “have an AHA moment” She said sabrina, one of the things I have always thought was amazing about you is that you are “merciful – Jesus says to be merciful to others and He will be merciful to you.
Such as situations off the cuff where someone needing a kind word, a time where someone needs you to go a bit “beyond” what is expected to help them in life, or accepting others as fallible human beings,with love being our motivation in it. Jesus has Certainly been more than merciful to me my entire life. I am thankful I never got what I deserved from many of my actions in life.
Initially, I was still grumbling about feeling duped. But am learning to have compassion for “myself” and “mercy” that apparantly is an inborn trait (god given) that I seem compelled to extend to others.
Tilly, this is what makes us gloriously different from the P’s. On their sites, they are working, scheming, ploting, in extremes just to lead their void,niave parasitic lifestyle- most (if not all) do not believe in any afterlife or no higher power. “They” are their own higher power. How fragile of a belief system!!! Because they have no concept of humanity so our beautiful traits that “normals” treasure and bond together with are alien and incomprehensible to them.
They see our God given traits as weakness in us. Its ONLY seen that way to those compelled to exploit with no moral compass.
Funny- being caring, whole,growing, progressing beings with ” joy and peace” is considered weak to them- but they have this senseless “superhero” inflated view of themselves- and what reason on earth would they feel superior? What are they basing superiority on? Getting away with scams, and manipulations. How sad. “We” all know there is no real soulful satisfaction in that. They simply have nothing to compare, no measure of what real connections with loving people can do or inner peace. I want to leave people with having being “better” off from having met me- NOT worse off with disdain for me , what I stand for, and the legacy I intend to leave. I enjoy your posts and wish all the best! Hang in there girl!
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sabrina says:
BloggerT,
Thank you for the respectful delivery of your posts and statistics. I know you werent trying to trigger anyone or cause discord (as Tom the woman hater was) , just merely presenting your information.
I have plainly stated my experience, research, and knowlege I have on the statistics that differ from yours. I stand by my observations and believe the over abundance of information that indicates and proves that women are much more at risk of domestic violence, and murders from intimate partners.
Some references of another poster mentioned Womens shelters as well, in which had not been mentioned afore which is another provable evidence of the predominance of male perps. More than anything, the common sense, real life knowledge of victims stands for more than any statistic for me. Best wishes.
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blueskies says:
Hi Sabrina, I hope all is well with you. I always find it amazing when I come on here and see a poster who is personally ‘going through tons of it’ having the fight of their life with some slime ball or system and STILL has STRENGTH, LOVE and HOPE to give to another, it happens all the time here. I think you are amazing. I think everyone here is amazing. I guess its all relative, but my recent tussles with mother and daughter have reduced me to a lump of jelly on the floor, and it seems quite small compared to whats been going on with you, and what others are dealing with. Much love.
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BloggerT7165 says:
You are welcome sabrina. I was not trying tio make a case for who is more at risk or who causes more. I was trying to make the case that all people who have been hurt deserve to be treated with compassion and that by turning these kind of things into gender wars or arguments about numbers just hurts all victims even more. I had a lady not that recently that talked about how for over 30 years was unable to get help from being sexually abused by her mother because “mothers don’t do that” and she felt outcast and freakish because there was no services for her and was told how “rare” it is. One of her comments was that hearing and reading how “rare” it is actually made it hurt more.
I agree with what Dr. Leedom has stated in that there are large numbers of both male and female abusers out there. As for who does it more it does not really matter to me because stats really don’t matter to the individual that has been hurt.
I will post a stat about juvenile domestic violence from the FBI reports:
Females were 67% of the victims of juvenile domestic assault offenders.
Half (51%) of juvenile domestic assault offenders victimized a parent and one-quarter (24%) victimized a sibling.
The weapon most commonly used in domestic assaults by juveniles was a knife.
About two-thirds (69%) of all juvenile domestic assault offenders victimized persons older than 18; however, the great majority (98%) of juvenile domestic sexual assault offenders victimized other juveniles.
One-third (35%) of juvenile domestic assault offenders were female.
Most (84%) juvenile domestic assault offenders acted alone.
Most (88%) juvenile domestic assault offenders committed their crime in a residence.
Juvenile offenders were less likely to be arrested in sexual assaults than in aggravated assaults and simple assaults reported to law enforcement. The same was true for adults.
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sabrina says:
Blueskies, as I am trying to get ready for work, I almost didnt blog back on this a.m. I felt like I was getting too emotionally tied to this- and as well with the other struggles- but THANK YOU, so much! I can’t tell you what that means to me for such an uplifting, positive post from you! I am so sorry for what you are dealing with- I’ve always loved your posts and know that your are super strong person with much wisdom. I know the “lump of jelly on the floor” feeling. I bounce back and forth with that myself.
On a positive note for me, my gf went with me to my dr. yesterday (she was afraid I’d go back to being that lump of Jelly (lol) If she didnt make sure I got to see the doc. I needed a steroid shot to get over a sore throat/sinus issue. But the dr. said I was also suffering from exhaustion and said for 2 weeks minimum I was to take ambien (rx sleep aid) at night along with a double dose of melatonin -a natural sleep aid thats over the counter-even in chewable form.
Both, together to help alleviate the fatigue. For anxiety, & situational depression , she says you cant get relief from if exhaustion (very common) is a big part of the equation.
She (dr.) says its a vicious cycle- cant get rid of the anxiety, or depress., truly until the exhaustion is addressed and vice versa. Must deal with all three issues. This may be helpful to you or others to put that into perspective.
On the court date from the DViolence case, you may have read my disheartening case- and unbelieveably courts found him not quilty.
Altho I have atty. friends, I did not want to burden them (or get any more compassionate freebies) in coming with me to this “shut and closed ” case that was an obvious conviction- SO I THOUGHT . Wrong choice- I think I probally lost b/c no attorney backed me up and quite frankly the DA was very ignorate, un interested in protection from DV issues in this small country’bumkin town. HOWEVER, had I paid any attorney to go with me, it would have cost MORE than this P’s conviction fines would have been- according to DA $200 or less was the max fine (even with 7 priors or more on the record- all misdemeanors)
So What are these people (self included)to do in the battle of convicting these maniacs without disposable money?
THE Good thing, the first 3 convictions (months ago) never cost me a cent , the courts were way sympathetic to my case, DA on my side, opposing atty. very respectful- ALL the things that this case in another county was OPPOSITE of. THat said, its a crap shoot at best, but it still worth going thru it to make a stand against DV.- one “statistic” at a time huh? lol
Take care and best of everything for you, know that you are cared about! xoxox
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sabrina says:
BloggerT,
hi there again, it is a sad situation in deed. I guess I have a real distaste, and bias against FEMALES who ABUSE their own children. I know for males to do it, is just as heinous, but anyone who births that child- 10 months of growing as part of your body and can do that is beyond any comprehension. Personally, right or wrong to do so, I hold mothers at an even higher standard in protecting their babies- I probally wouldnt be an “Objective” judge in a case such as this.
Truly no sin is a greater one than another- but human bias and personal disdain exists if we are completely honest.
I do realise the numbers are growing in violent aggression across the board- gender not withstanding. We do need to be aware of the dangers that are out there for sure. take care…
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Tilly says:
I can’t seem to settle down, i can’t sleep, I keep waking wide awake every few hours. Its very exhausting.
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Tilly says:
Sabrina:
You are a light in my life, thankyou for being there. Your last post to me was truly beautiful and I have put it on my wall.
I am on the lollipop team forever….no suckers here anymore! xo
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BloggerT7165 says:
Sabrina,
Thank you for your responses. I want to also say how sorry I am that this happened to you. I am also sorry that sometimes the bad guys win and those who have been hurt are hurt even more by it when the system does not work.
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sabrina says:
BloggerT,
I appreciate you so much. We are all survivors here and will always be victors, no matter what.
I realize that I must get thru some of my PTSD triggers to be of the most help to others. Another reason to keep on keeping on! Nevertheless, its refreshing to think of giving back from ashes to beauty- as everyone here has selflessly done to help me and untold amounts of awesome souls ! Have a great day..
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sabrina says:
Dear TIlly,
Hi darlin! (-common southerners term of endearment-since you are an aussie! lol) I missed your post earlier- Dont know how. I just read it and tears welled up in my eyes! -Bitter sweet – that you printed and kept my post to you, and said what you did, but sad of what you have gone thru.
I loved what you said -I think on another post- you wish God would just tell you what to do instead of going all around trying to figure it out! not exact words, but something like that. OMG I can identify with that!!!!!! Thats one of the truest, most real statements I can think of hearing.
I feel somewhat multiple personality myself- (what the x n/p said he was, and with demon inside him) I feel like these last weeks have been a “test” of something for me and I have probally failed miserably at least where God is concerned! Ive been mean, bitter, and vengeful one minute- then snap out of it to my lesser- mean self the next lol.
Dont kn ow if you remember the old movie the exorcist, where Linda Blairs head spins around and spits venom. After trial, that pretty much described me. Then I started the rant on here over “Tom the instigator”, immediately after getting home from court, I mean within a few hours! lol Just didnt need it! ha. Anyways, keep your head up, and thank you for your support.
If you remember reading or saw any on this – I just realized, came to terms with my 20 yr old son being a P. Since I now am in acceptance (pretty much) instead of going crazy trying to help him (enable him), I am so much better. Its weird, but after a while, I feel the grieving is better and the crazy making has ceased (only thanks to 99% N/C !) A five year marathon of jumping thru hoops to help him, but finally now I can slow down and get a grip on reality. At first, when it really hit that he is a P-I felt like a death sentence was put on him. Its never easy, but I have came to some sort of shaky acceptance .
You mentioned something about the lack of visits from yours- I grieved over this same thing 4 ever- no visits from him on mothers day, or when I was in the hospital, etc etc.
THe ONLY time I gotta call was like when he was in Jail and needed bond $$$- I said NO.
Then the NEXT time he was in Jail and needed bond $$$- I said Hell NO! … you know the drill. The real pain was that I couldnt understand how I could love him with my whole heart and he seemed to feel nothing,,, nada… For some mysterious reason- and alotta prayer I feel releaved that I can let him go to some extent with no more guilt.
I pray that God send him people in his life to help him, since I no longer can thru the fact that “he” cant go by any rules or upbringing and I pray that he will fight this thing over Good and evil. I wish you peace with this battle.
I heard the song “The Climb,” Miley Sirus- today- dont know all the words, but talks about our battles and sometimes we have to lose.
To me, Somehow accepting that we “lose” one thing, in order to “win” another is comforting enough for now. xoxo
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sabrina says:
PS TIlly – lollipop team rocks!
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Tilly says:
Thankyou again Sabrina..your insight is invaluable! thankyou!
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advoc8 says:
Yes, it very true that especially three of the Axis II (personality dissorders) Mental Illnesses account for most perpetrators of DV (domestic violence): 1- Borderline Personality Disorder 2- Narcissistic Personality Disorder 3- Antisocial Personality Disorder (Sociopaths – the criminally insane). Ironically though, this does not quite match up to actual surveys and extensive number of studies documenting the solid fact that women commit most dating violence and DV (not men, as is often stated in error).
Yes, it is indeed well known that women have more mental illness overall than men (which is sometimes even ignorantly blamed on men). BUT, of those 3 primary Axis II personality dissorders, only the first is well recognised as being dominated by women. So, it doesn’t match up? Maybe just mental illness analysis is off a bit. Many psychologist argue that though not diagnosed, women VERY often have traits of the latter two Axis II Disorders, maybe even more often than men, which is OK, accepted or often ignored by societal standards of normalcy.
The fact is that you don’t have to be diagnosed or even have all the symptoms necessary to be diagnosed with any of these ailments. You only have to have just enough of the characteristics to fuel the domestic violence. What these psychologists have to say makes sense because it matches up with the fact that women likewise commit more domestic violence and are likewise more often and likewise excused and overlooked for it just the same. In any case, it all fits together, unless,… you ban the facts to fit an endeared agenda.
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advoc8 says:
Sabrina,
Thanks for your valid DV concerns.
You assert that violent women are not given a free pass but that violent men are given that free pass instead. Not so. Look at arrest and conviction stats of DV. They are almost all of men, though men are perpetrators less often than women. That’s as silly as saying Jews are the worst citizens because Nazis arrested and convicted them most. Both cases are vivid examples of targeting and profiling.
Profiling, lies and resultant hysteria and can only serve to make overall matters worse, for everyone, not better. Those arrest and conviction stats actually stand as testament against our own “justice” system since they do not remotely match actual commission of those crimes.
Here is another article with DV references to check out:
http://lifestyle.msn.com/your-.....d=20968901
Now, who ussually gets less than a slap on the wrist for committing DV?
The whole DV mess is not a problem of men or women, the real problem is the DV establishment which causes more problems and abuse than all bad men and women put together. Until we unite and address the facts, things will continue very poorly.
I have daughters to guide and protect from both sides of DV (being perpetrators or victims), and their worst enemy IS the DV Establishment on either side of the issue. The popular DV Establishment puts them in more danger by lying to all of us and to them and misleading them, and not into less danger. If our daughters listen to them, they ARE in higher danger.
thanks-
Tom Miller
Advocate for victims of mental illness, and their families. Advocate for victims of abuse (men, women and children), especially the most plentiful victims of all, victims of the DV/Divorce Industry.
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advoc8 says:
As supported by the link in my last posting, others and I have observed the DV (domestic violence) establishment (in sheep’s clothing) exploiting and abusing far more men, women and children than they claim and pretend to help (verify this at the archived articles, written by women, at http://www.true-equality.org ).
As I said, I have daughters to defend from domestic violence (defend your sons just the same) and find that the misinformation passed out by the DV Establishment is actually harmful and puts our daughters at higher risk, no lower. Equality and truth are the ONLY things to teach our daughters (and sons) to protect them from DV. The self-serving DV establishment refuses to teach real protection from DV. They NEED victims, not to eliminate them. They refuse to teach us how to really protect our daughters with the following Equality, Truth and Justice:
1- NO DOUBLE STANDARDS, period. Really and fully know what an abuser is, male AND female (the worst mistake is to ignore or excuse female abuse – embracing double standards…). First, do not be an abuser yourself. Second, do not stay around an abuser (yes, you guys too).
2- Never EVER hit a guy. It’s not any more OK for a girl or woman to hit a guy than for a guy to hit a girl or woman. Teaching otherwise WILL put girls and women at highest risk. Teaching only boys to respect girls can be very dangerous and deadly for girls and women. Mutual respect only. Reciprocal actions only. Most women injured in dating or DV are initiators of abuse or start out as the repetitive sole abusers, until he finally hits back. Its too easy to remove this dominant motive and cause behind injuries to women. We have to reject the DV Industry’s lies and abuse to do this.
3- Never EVER make false or exaggerated abuse allegations, especially not to get a protective or restraining order, not even to cover up or “excuse” an affair. I realise this sick and abusive practice is routine, very popular and very accepted today. That doesn’t make it OK to do. It’s abuse, serious abuse, another abusive double standard begetting serious retaliation at times. It’s just sick, wrong, abusive and not worth the risk. Yet, these agencies promote, reward and defend false abuse allegations – this plague of lies is mostly what fuels them. Studies show this to put women at a much higher risk of retaliation and even death in some cases: abuse begets abuse. Tragic examples of this are in the news constantly.
Teach your sons and esp daughters (female voices are better heard on this) to speak out in school when taught harmful indoctrination and double standards, even in an assembly. Truth and reason will resonate when spoken by your child at school and can be backed up by fact sources. Best of all, speaking out like this in school WILL save many other children.
Our abusive, parasitic DV Industry never teaches these most critical DV defense techniques. Truth and help like this is not profitable, but undermines the DV Industry’s agenda, profits and power. It’s frighteningly OK to sacrifice women to fuel the DV Industry: search: true-equality dot org – very useful documentation and full facts on DV (read the mission statement and archived articles, esp articles by women who are onto DV Industry scams.
thanks-
Tom Miller
Advocate for victims of mental illness, and their families. Advocate for victims of abuse (men, women and children), especially the most plentiful victims of all, victims of the DV/Divorce Industry.
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Anon Ymous says:
I echo advoc8.
Erin Pizzey, founder of the first women’s shelter in the UK,
has been saying for 35+ years that of the first 100 women in her shelter 56 were as violent or more violent than the men they were with. The feminists kicked her out because she was talking about violent women. (http://www.sossandra.org/2007/.....evolution/ )
http://www.csulb.edu/~mfiebert/assault.htm
http://www.mediaradar.org/docs.....DV-Pt1.pdf
http://www.mediaradar.org/docs.....-Myths.pdf
http://www.radarsvcs.org/docs/.....tailed.pdf
- Anon
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OxDrover says:
Dear Advoc8 & Anon,
Thank you for your opinions, right now though, there are MANY angles that need to be addressed in “family court” matters and that includes divorce courts and child custody cases, etc. and while I agree that there are prejudical PROFESSIONAL people there out to make a buck—divorce lawyers for one group, the whole system is skewed, and justice SELDOM prevails for either party in a divorce when even ONE of the couple is personality disordered. How to tell by “looking” which one of the two is the “crazy” one or if they are BOTH “crazy” is difficult.
It is true that in many situations of domestic violence that BOTH parties are personality disordered and they take turns playing “musical chairs” of VICTIM & ABUSER each taking their turn in both chairs until one or the other of them decides to end that relationship. or someone gets seriously physically hurt.
False accusations of “child sexual abuse” against the father is fairly common for a personality disordered female to make against her innocent spouse….along with other false accusations. That’s the thing, it is DIFFICULT to prove a “negative.” Proving that you were NOT at the theater the night Abraham Lincoln was killed is not always that easy! LOL
The chaos and strife and stress effected on the victimized spouse by th epersonality disordered one can make the REAL victim come across “as crtazy as a bessie-bug” to Judges and other professionals, while the perpetrator sits calm as a cucumber appearing normal and rational. Appearances ARE deceiving.
The above post about seeing how each of these people are 5 + years down the road may be the answer, but sometimes even 5 years isn’t enough for a victim to get their head bck together if they have been traumatized enough.
Even a psych eval may not show up the truth of who is the P and who is the victim, or are they both personality disordered? Too many mental health professionals don’t know a P 1 out of 5 times when they see one live, and even though who do “get it” can be fooled.
I just took 4 months of quite a bit of contact to ferret one out of my vacinity (fortunately before I got hurt emotionally or financially) this was a “friendship” not a romantic relationship. I am kind of proud of myself for figuring it out with out being struck across the head with a log, but it does take time to see the RED FLAGS and a psych eval is a matter of hours not days or months in most cases.
When are we going to have a “blood test for psychopathy?” Sure would be nice, in the meantime….back at the ranch….we need to keep working on ways to identify them without getting into hot water.
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Anon Ymous says:
Dr. Warren Farrell on:
Why Men Earn More 1 – The Startling Truth Behind the Pay Gap:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cb_6v-JQ13Q
Myth of Male Power:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFtGwBsKgKs
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Anon Ymous says:
Joke of the Day – Lawyers Are Replacing Rats
Have you heard they’re using lawyers instead of rats in laboratories these days? There are three reasons for this:
1. Lawyers reproduce faster.
2. The scientists don’t get attached to the lawyers.
3. A lawyer will do things a rat wouldn’t even consider.
[]
—
Judith Brumbaugh was a very shocking listen. She said she had to go to 7 attorneys before getting one that would be okay with an even (custody)
outcome. The rest encouraged corrupt things (they suggested false rape, dv stuff, bad parenting stuff – and said she would get custody.).
———————————————
Subject: was watching these Family Law reform videos from 2006 ACFC
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 20:02:53 -0700
https://secure2.convio.net/acfc/site/Ecommerce?VIEW_PRODUCT=true&product_id=1021&store_id=1621&JServSessionIdr011=qjpmapscu1.app13b
[]
- Anon
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