The Narcissiopath
PDF What do you call someone you’ve been describing alternately as a narcissist and sociopath? Someone for whom neither diagnosis alone quite suffices as a complete description of the individual, but rather in whom both disorders seem as if wrapped up in one menacing individual?
Pardoning my grandiosity for daring to expand the already crowded psychiatric nomeclature, I propose to call these hybrid personalities“narcissiopaths.”
While I don’t expect the DSM folks to take me very seriously (or anyone else for that matter), I’m thinking (unfacetiously) that there’s a case to be made here.
The narcissiopath, as I envision him (using “him” for convenience’s sake) will meet many of the essential criteria for both narcissistic and sociopathic personality. The closest extant clinical description of this disordered individual that comes to mind is the confusing term “maligant narcissist.”
Now personally, I find the term “malignant narcissist” wanting: for instance, precisely at what point does a narcissist turn “malignant?” And doesn’t this imply the concept of non-malignant narcissists who, by definition, must be “benign?” (I’m not so sure their partners would attest to their harmlessness?)
My concept, the narcissiopath, suggests very directly the personality fusion of narcissism and sociopathy in this particular personality. The narcissiopath is the individual who effectively conflates narcissism and sociopathy.
Let me briefly review these separate personalities—the narcissist and sociopath—in their more classical presentations. The narcissist is fundamentally a recognition-craver, a reassurance-craver, a convenience-craver, and an inordinate craver and demander of attention, catering and special status. He is in many respects insatiably needy emotionally.
At root, the narcissist is an overly entitled personality. He feels entitled to be accomodated on a pretty much continual basis. This begs the question, on what basis does he accord himself this right—to expect, that is, the continual accomodation of his needs and desires? The answer is, on the basis of his sense of himself as “special,” and his expectation that others—indeed, the world—will also recognize him as special.
Psychologically, a compensatory process often occurs with the narcissist. His “sensed” and “imposed” specialness is often a compensation for underlying and threatening self-vulnerability; and compensation for doubts about his power, worth and attractiveness—doubts that he is too immature to face squarely and maturely.
Although exploitation is not typically the narcissist’s primary motive, we recognize his capacity to be manipulative, cruel, deceptive and abusive; yet his darker machinations are usually secondary to his demanding, and sometimes desperate, pursuit of others’ attention and cooperation.
The narcissist is imfamously inept at managing his disappointment. He feels that he should never be disappointed, that others owe him protection from disappointment. When disappointed, he will find someone to blame, and will quickly de-idealize and devalue his disappointer.
Devaluing his disappointer now enables him to abuse her or him with more righteous indignation and less guilt.
For the sociopath, this is all much easier. Unlike the narcissist, he doesn’t have to perform mental gymnastics to subdue his guilt in order to exploit others with an unburdened conscience. The sociopath has no guilt to manage.
But the sociopath’s dead conscience isn’t per se what makes him sociopathic. Many people have weak consciences who aren’t sociopaths. It is his dead conscience in conjunction with his orientation to exploit that gets to the heart (really, heartlessness) of the sociopath.
The sociopath is variously a manipulator, liar, deceiver and violator of others; and he is these things less to regulate his unstable self-esteem than, more often than not, to enjoy himself, amuse himself, entertain himself, and take what he feels like taking in a way he finds optimally satisfying.
The sociopath, as I have discussed previously, is an audacious exploiter. His lack of shame supports his imperturbability, which enhances the experience of his audacity. The sociopath leaves one shaking one’s head at his nerve, his gall. One imagines that to venture the deception and outrages the sociopath pursues with his famous, blithe composure, he must possess a chilling callousness and coldness beneath what may otherwise be his veneer of “normality.” One imagines correctly.
Now sometimes we find ourselves dealing, as I’ve suggested, with individuals who seem, at once, to be both narcissist and sociopath, as if straddling, or embodying both disorders.
These are the individuals I’m proposing to call narcissiopaths.
For a good celebrity example of this, consider O.J. Simpson. Simpson, as his story evolved, was someone you found yourself confusingly calling a narcissistic personality disorder (probably correctly) in one conversation, and in the very next, a sociopath (probably correctly).
You found yourself vacillating between the two diagnoses because he seemed to fulfill important criteria of both. There was O.J. the narcissist: publicly charming, charismatic, disarmingly engaging and seductively likeable while privately, behind closed doors, he was tyrannizing Nicole Brown whenever he felt his “omnipotent control” threatened.
Simpson came to epitomize the indulged athlete: catered to all his life for his special athletic gifts, somewhere along the line he came to believe, with ultimately violent conviction, in his right to control and be heeded, not defied.
Simpson was all about “looking good,” about public show; in Nicole Brown he’d found a woman—a “trophy wife”—who could “reflect well” on him publicly, and on his “greatness.” She was also, tragically, the “perfect” choice to engage his narcissistic compulsion to alternately idealize, and then devalue, her; that is, to idealize the perfect, and then devalue the perfectly dirty, sex object.
In other words, in choosing her, Simpson chose well for his narcissism.
In the end, Simpson was as charming, ingratiating, and as shallow and superficial as so many narcissists (and all sociopaths) are.
But he was more than that. He was also callous, and brutally violent. He descended upon Nicole Brown and Ron Goldman like the knife-wielding devil he was, nearly carving Brown’s head off and massacring Goldman.
And then…he lied.
He maintained his innocence with outrageous brazenness, determined to win the next stage of yet another game. And where was the remorse? There was none; just his arrogant, insulting contempt.
Simpson had executed a miraculous performance. He had escaped from double-murder and the incontrovertible evidence of his guilt as improbably, as impossibly, as he’d so often escaped (brilliantly) opposing defenses and game-plans geared to stop him.
Finally, although I’d say that Simpson probably tilts, on balance, more to a narcissistic personality structure than not, he also possesses many of the most dangerous and essential diagnostic features of the sociopath. He seems, in other words, to be not entirely one or the other, but both narcissist and sociopath all in one.
I intend to flesh out the concept of the narcissiopath in future posts. And I look forward, as always, to your feedback.
(This article is copyrighted © 2009 by Steve Becker, LCSW.)
written by Steve Becker, LCSW • Permalink •
Escapee says:
Erin
Well done! And good luck.
(Report abusive comment)
ANewLily says:
Erin, yes, indeed. well done!
I just think you have saved me some grief. I MUST find another source of income since I am now counted as totally disabled. I was seriously thinking of buying a foreclosed home and rentint it out.
I had already been undecided, not wanting to gain from someone else’s misfortune (foreclosure) but your experience has clinched it for me. There is no way I could face what you are facing with my ill health!
BTW, every time I see your post, I wonder if you are that gorgeous, talented blond being interviewed about a worthy cause on CNN about two weeks ago. They said her name was Erin Brockovich. Was that you? If so, I was certainly impressed with the interview and the cause!
(Report abusive comment)
banana says:
HELP
My H is working his way back in…can’t you see it in my posts where I question whether he is full P or just PD?
H picked up son today w/o incident.
Upon drop off he went back into how he wanted to save the marriage. (I watched his eyes: how can someone NOT blink!?)
Could you believe he asked if we were going to draw it out, and said that if so he had already taken 30,000 out of the bank (loan) and hired a PI. I asked, how can you say you love your wife and want to save your M and then become so threatening?
I’m like, why do you need a PI. Seems he thinks it’s odd that I should not want him showing up unexpectedly…that I have something to hide.
Geez. Everything else seems believable IE: he knows his life will be miserable with me because my PARENTS ABSOLUTELY HATE HIM now. But he would still move out by them to leave the mistress.
Told me he’s been reading Dr. Phil.
Weight in folks, Is he just a NPD?
Also..this is why NC is a rule with these freaks. I pray for the strength to walk away next time.
PS My faith not only brings me strength, but I have witnessed small miracles since the A came out, and the only explanation is GOD. I wish more of you would look into it. If you’re interested there are some books I could recommend. I’m sure Oxy would have some great info for you too : )
(Report abusive comment)
OxDrover says:
Dear Banana,
YOU KNOW THE TRUTH GIRLFRIEND, if you let him suck you back in, you know what life will be like, you have already been there….if you let that creep back into your life you are not as smart as my jack asses!
DO WHAT YOU KNOW IS RIGHT!!!!
(Report abusive comment)
ANewLily says:
I agree 100% with Oxy and I believe you do, too!
My thought: If the divorce hasn’t yet gone through are you aware that you probably might have to pay back part of that $30,000 bank loan — and probably half of the PI fee?
Oh, but I think it depends on which state you live in. You do live in the U.S., don’t you? Sorry, can’t remember.
Get thee to a lawyer and ask about that!! I got stuck with a lot of my EX’s nasty manipulations of his money (in his mind, it was never 1/2 mine!) for being totally naive about the laws.
Don’t repeat my mistake.
(Report abusive comment)
ANewLily says:
PS. It does sound like he is being paranoid — about the need for the PI. He doesn’t believe you because he know HE LIES and assumes that you do, too! Been there. Done that.
God’s blessings. He’ll see you through as He has before!!
(Report abusive comment)
Tilly says:
BANANA:
There comes a time when you have to take responsibility for the knowledge that you have and to do the hard yakka (work). Otherwise its all froth and bubble and you are wasting your time. Choose life or death?
Not to hard a choice, once you know what your dealing with….WHICH YOU DO!!!!!!!! AND WE KNOW YOU DO!!!!!!!!!!
(Report abusive comment)
geminigirl says:
Hi everyone, just something light to make you laugh,{hopefully!} Little boy is in church with his mum, and the pastor is preaching about Lot. he said,”And the LordGod said to Lot, take your wife, and flee from this immoral city! So Lot did as he was told, but his wife looked back, and was turned into a pillar of salt.”
The little boy turned to his Mother and said,
“But what happened to the flea?”{Dont you love it?!}
Its so good to be home again, getting over jet lag, seems to take longer as you get older! Im still staying stong, re no contact with my daughter. Ive laid down my boundaries,and made it clear that if she responds to them we can have a relationship, if not, we cant. I have to say Im not hopeful of hearing from her. Im feeling stronger by the day. My lovely “adopted” son and daughter from Iran are coming over for lunch this coming Sunday. They are so sweet and loving to us,lots of hugs, kisses, and pure joy! they are as needy of a loving family as we are, and are so appreciative of us. They are so young, [23 and 24, } and such FUN! They both actually cry every time they leave us. They know they can never go back to Iran, we are their family now.I have NEVER had love and caring like this EVER from my adult kids, in fact, not since they were around 10 or 12 years old. I believe as we give to the world, the world gives back to us! As Oxy says, “Cast not your pearls before swine’,–often the swine are our own families. Blood is not always thicker than water.Im looking forward to a brand new happy phase of my life, with David,he is 76 now, and not able to cope with my tears and frustration with my adult daughters any more. Its unproductive and not fair on him. I need to cherish him, and put God first, then me, then him!.Can you believe it, but the pounds are dropping off me? Without me even trying to lose weight? I am sure that fat is a protection, an armour against pain, and also your hormones go crazy when you are constantly upset and in fight or flight mode. Its good to feel calm, not to dread the phone ringing {in case its my daughter, either yelling at me, or asking for money,again.} I noticed someone mentioned what lousy gifts NSs give you. How true! All Ive ever got from D are second hand items or “freebies”. Last Xmas, d and I got a book each, one on Crocodiles, and one on Koalas.{obviously she was given them free as she works in publishing} Even the wrapping paper was always second hand! She actually rang me on my Birthday[something, I suppose,} to say the flowers cost $60- and she couldnt afford them, so she didnt send them.Im supposed to be touchingly grateful for a brief phonecall, -and I was! Ive been conditioned by her to expect so little -she is the most emotionally cold person Ive ever met, her ex says the same thing.Does anyone know or care what becomes of them as they get older and run out of people to suckerpunch? I still wory about her, unfortunately!Love and Hugs to all you great, strong, amazing people! geminigirlXXX
(Report abusive comment)
libelle says:
Today I got a postcard from X! Stating that he met a girl that went into a cloister because of two bad relationships, and that he would really find it not a good idea from me to become a nun myself. And he still has my wine bottles. Kind regards.
Such a ……. (fill in the blank). “Either me or devote thyself to God in heaven (if not the one on earth)”. Maybe the “good feelings” he had with the psychiatrist did not work out so well? Anyway I informed my sister about him bringing maybe the bottles over (they live in the same town).
It is like on the railway in the Alps where you have curving tunnels that spiral up in the mountain, and you exit the mountain on the same spot and you can see for instance a church from a low level, then a higher, then from the top of the mountain.
I see the same but I am above now, it is not affecting me anymore. I could read the subtext of the card. And then of course it went to the old stinky smoked salmon wrapping paper in the bin!
I was internally amused and very happy as I realized that I was with him in the “Need not apply” state! Towanda!!!
Thank you all so much! With you all I could relive in this particular thread just in time the same things again and recapitulate the story, and you prepared me that I was able to handle this card with its due diligence
(Report abusive comment)
sabrina says:
Banana, my thoughts him looking at you without blinking- I know that look so well! I call it dead eyes. My little girl even had a name for a suspected P that worked with me briefly- she called him “EEE-EVIL Joey! I said, very curious as why a 7 yr old would say what I was secretly thinking- why do you say that honey? She said increduously ,mom cant you see his eyes? I will always give credabilty to childrens observations and animals reactions to “dark entities.”
The part about him getting a PI? I think just keeping you off balance is his goal. hE IS more than likely to have a lot to hide. If you are concerned about getting stuck with paying half of the PI bill anyways- probally need to turn the tables- have the PI work FOR you and see what slithers out from under a rock!Sorry for all your distress. Be strong. best wishes,, xoxo
(Report abusive comment)
banana says:
Sabrina,
I paid special attention to his eyes last time I saw him after reading “how to spot a con”.
I was blinking ever 5 seconds even though I was staring at him to watch his eyes. He only blinked ever 30 seconds and this was only when he’s look away.
His eyes looked evil too. It makes me wonder how we ever saw love in those blood-sucking eyes.
Thanks Tily and “lilly” too.
(Report abusive comment)
sabrina says:
Banana, wow thats interesting about the lack of blinking, I never really noticed that much before with the P, but I dont recall seeing very much blinking when you bring it up.Could it be the lack of real emotion and empathy for others affect the depth of the eyes- what is it that is said about the eyes being windows of the soul? Or another possibility is when they become bored and its like “lights out” with no creative energy going on in there. Who knows?
The suspected P that I referred to earlier that I worked with had the worst case of “dead eyes” I have ever seen!!! Even worse than my x. His hy was that of growing up in a really bad neighborhood, mom had been a stripper and was never at home. The guy witnessed drive by shootings, and lots of crimes/violence and he had sold drugs as a teens and beyond. I suspected he was still in alot of illegal activity from some of his comments. He said he didnt like people, trusted no one and later confided that he only saw women as sex objects! He mocked my spirituality and claimed “Jesus, if there IS ONE ,has left this place a long time ago- If He cared, He wouldnt ALLOW all the bad that happens in this world. I tried for a long time to “rehabilitate” him to some degree with encouragement, and tried to explain that God is of love, and the sins on earth are from consequences of sins of people, that God gives us free will to make our own good/bad choices.
ANyway, coversations with him, hard to pinpoint but were strange to say the least. He didnt seem to realize his depressed state he was in almost all of the time gave others no incentive to hang around for long- but I think he wanted it that way. Nevertheless, I got a distinct feeling of being in danger and that “red flag” pyscho alert when around him. Another huge flag was that he was a huge thrill seeker- claimed that he wouldn’t live long in life anyways so he took lots of chances- driving extremes, trouble with law, etc.He was very agressive- easily angered.. He talked about going to bars and punching people to “get it out of his system. EVERY phone call I heard this guy on was him cursing someone, talking very harshly to them. He treated workers with cold, callous regard as tho they were his slaves. Once he damaged his hand due to getting so angry when a piece of equipment didnt work properly. He told someone he broke a windshield out in his vehicle b/c he “threw a little fit”!! Another oddity to me, was his tattoo of a granade with boRN TO kill on it. I momentarily found myself “feeling sorry” for this guy b/c of the obvious need for him to release his deep seated anger issues. THEN I snapped out of it, realized this anger could leave me a huge target like a little girl holding a lollipop. As my motto being – I’m No sucker, I had to make like hoodini and DISAPPEAR!
(Report abusive comment)
banana says:
Oh, also. as far as animal instinct. His dog had he had a great relationship. My dog did nothing but lick his hand when we first met and he would visit. She usually barks and growls at people she first meets. Sometimes she has to meet someone several times before this stops.
I always thought the dogs would know, but they always loved him more than me. Maybe it’s because he was at their level?
(Report abusive comment)
banana says:
Tattoo’s: mine had one of an alien with a really long tongue..why? Gross. It’s sexual. Can you guess?
I have always been a pretty straight an narrow girl, good values, good morals, always treated people well. Sure there was a time I liked getting drunk, but even did that less than the average college student. This was a turn off, but I just chalked it up to a bad decision especially as he never did talk about it or show it off. I mean my Tattoo is nice, but even I regret it.
Mine said he didn’t have a lot of guy friends, because he DIDN”T TRUST MEN.
that’s why he had girl friends (most were safe, I got to know them well)
I read somewhere that male psychologists are more apt to see through the BS of a S/P NPD. Can you guess that my P picked a female!!!!
(Report abusive comment)
sabrina says:
My experience of my x n/p was that guys generally stayed at a distance-he had only 1 friend from work. Most men seemed to be repelled by him but then the ones he used- pastor, lawyer friend, and a few other “supplies” for him seemed to love and be under his evil spell NO MATTER WHAT.
They ended up knowing EVERY hideous thing he had done- he admitted most all of it – really only after the evidence started pouring in, but seemed to really to enjoy letting everyone know how his obscene secrets- of his porn addictions, abuse to women and animals, stealing, having sex with underage girls, etc. EVen after that, those “supplies” are still smitten with him. They have been trauma bonded as well! Its like a hard line people draw with him- either ’til death do they part’ with him OR he is like bug repellant to a mosquito for some.
(Report abusive comment)
banana says:
Right now my P is leeching onto his Christian Co-workers. 4 of them. Using their kindness and beliefs, as he did mine, to get them to support him. He’s grasping for straws here. He just wants people to see the good in him. Not to far from now, I think he’ll use this against me, saying I tried “everything to get her back and she rejected me.” Booo hooo…etc…
(Report abusive comment)
sabrina says:
Banana, LOL. yea I learned just how much P’s love the religious cover. Mine was a con artist/evangalist. I predict the co workers your P is sucking up to are being “love bombed” right now to seal the deal for the new “supply.” Good people are prime rib on the food chain for P’s.
(Report abusive comment)
Tilly says:
Sabrina:
“little girl holding a lollipop. As my motto being – I’m No sucker, I had to make like hoodini and DISAPPEAR!
You crack me up Sabrina! lol! xo
(Report abusive comment)
JaneSmith says:
Libelle,
Good for you, sweetie! You rock! I totally remember your first post here and it was filled with so much pain, suffering, confusion. Not anymore, right?
You have come so far in your healing, education since that first post. I see it! I feel your renewed confidence in who you are as a wonderful, loving woman.
So awesome!! **hug**
(Report abusive comment)
witsend says:
My computer is down again. GRRR. I am at the library on a public computer.
I just wanted to acknoledge all of your replys the other day to my ongoing struggles.
MATT: A teenage can file in my state at 17 for emancipation and state will determine if they are financially competent, transportation to and from work, ect, to live on their own. He will be 17 in the winter. His job is seasonal and he doesn’t work in the winter. So I am not sure that emancipation would be granted to him if he did file?
KATHLEEN: Well as far as the avenues I have encountered along the way I don’t see that I have many choices because of his age.
There are different programs for troubled kids that involve kids that have BROKEN the law but none it seems that are intervention BEFORE they break the law, other than the “classes” that we have taken when I filed for incorrigible teenager with the courts.
There are programs that is the teenager is WILLING that will take him such as a teenage program by the national guard that the school counselor suggested to him. I believe that is an 8 month program where he would be gone from the house for those months, but he has to be willing to sign up for this and of course he is not. It sounds like a great program, lots of structure and alot of “male interaction”, discipline, job opportunities ect….
All things that might do him alot of good.
He also seems to be smarter and one step ahead of me about the law and how my hands are pretty tied.
He has been really staying out later and later this summer and the law in my state is really not in my favor once the kid is 16. As it reads it is for 15 years and younger. So curfew for 16 and OLDER is actually more in terms of your rules at HOME and of course he doesn’t follow those rules.
I was thinking about maybe trying to talk to the local police. See if maybe they might be willing to shake him up a bit?
Maybe be willing to pick him up when he is out late and kind of scare him….. Talk to the police ahead of time and tell them I am having problems with him and so kind of feel them out if they would be willing to step in?
I am kind of just grasping for some ideas to get me through the summer and curb some of this behavior.
We has a “contract” (from the program we were in) that has ALL kinds of POSITIVE consequences for him doing very minimal but CONSISTENT daily 10 minute obligations. He refuses to do them.
I mean I am just going in circles. Ex: He stays out after curfew AND is unavailable by phone if I try reaching him. He comes home when he is done. With of course stories why phone doesn’t work. (EVERY time his phone is messed up LOL)
Punishment is he is grounded the next day.
He sneaks out of the house when he is grounded. So we go round and round and round…..
(Report abusive comment)
libelle says:
Dear JaneSmith. Thank you so much! You rock too, and you must have an elephant’s memory!! There must be hope to overcome the CRS-state, you proved it!
LF is really the ONE place where I can go to tell these things, and not get misunderstood. My sister is also “getting it”, and she just said “what an A£$§SH$££”, but she takes advantage of me all the time and behaves like a S towards me, is sucking me dry and devaluing me and allows her 7 year old daughter to throw tantrums towards me (as she did in her own youth herself, and still is doing from time to time), and frankly I can stand this less and less.
I told a colleague whom I considered to be a friend of mine about the card today, and she said that it was cute and “witty”! Well it MIGHT be, if you do not know that with X all has a purpose, and that he is as humor-free as a cockroach (I can’t really think of anything else, as I encountered one the other day and it just sucked. Maybe there is another analogy: IRS or US-Immigration). For me the card was clearly an invitation to contact him again, and the “nunnery” in Shakespeare’s Hamlet has the second meaning of Brothel, and that is for a purpose too! I told her about my suspicion, and she said that it might be a little “overdone”, and she could not find any harm in this writing. Just a friendly Hello.
Anyway, I decided to lift up my guard with this specific person a little bit more, and not tell any more so specific details about myself, as she is completely clueless although she is stumbling from one bad relationship to the next, and I have given her some books on how to set boundaries and about healthy relationships.
JaneSmith, I hope you do fine, and I wish you a very pleasant evening! ((((Hugs))))
(Report abusive comment)
slimone says:
Banana,
Sounds personality disordered to the max. Doesn’t matter NPD ASPD….all really really really toxic and dangerous and difficulit and life destroying. Not necessary to split the personality disordered ‘hairs’ here. He is manipulating and threatening and creating questioning and confusion.
Not to be rude or insensitive but who cares what-kinda-dog-poo you have on your shoe? It stinks and needs to be gotten rid of.
(Report abusive comment)
katiebug11 says:
Wow! My first post ya’ll! Such a relief to read all of this. Everything makes sense now. I don’t know when the next edition of the DSM comes out but they need to add this diagnosis and put a picture of my husband right next to it. Sounds like they need to include some of your current or ex’s as well. It has taken me soooooo long to realize that he is a narrcissiopath. And I have felt so stupid! But like you- I’m not stupid- these guys are just experts at knowing just what to say to give them another chance! And boy have I given out the second chances- after he got fired from his job, after his affair, after so many, many things- twelve years of second chances! Who did he blame for all of these problems? Oh yea baby- you guessed it- ME! “We” were supposed to go to counseling. He didn’t have time for it. Now I am glad. It has taken me years to figure it out. First I just figured out that he is a binge alcoholic. Then I finally figured out that it was HIM- not Me who had the problem. I stopped living in denial and opened my eyes and really watched everything he did and said. It has been so hard. It is like waking up to a nightmare every day- except it’s real- and you have to live it and pretend to the rest of the world that everything is great. It’s walking around with a lump in your throat all day at work because you just want to sit in a corner and cry. You want to give up. But you can’t. They would love it- it’s so sad but true that he does things on purpose to hurt me emotionally. I read his text messages to his N/P best friend. Boy I’ve got to get out of here and it won’t be easy. He has isolated me. He has made sure I don’t have friends. Not here anyway. Lucky for me I worked out of state a few times and made some great friends. He actually said to me: “We can’t have any friends because you don’t get along with anybody.”. Well- no it’s because he gets so drunk whenever we go anywhere and embaresses me and then we leave and he tells everyone I’m such a bitch and don’t want to have any fun. He has also allowed people to spread rumors about me that were not true. He said I started an argument at a party- I did not. They were all drunk- including him. Clearly no one remembers what happened but me- I was sober. He was mad I made him leave because they were a bunch of drunk rednecks and I knew nothing good was going to happen there. But he is a coach. Everyone loves him. They just don’t know him at all. He claims to be a Christian. He is not. I know that time will show everyone who he really is. He has used me as a cover for many years. There is a Latin saying ” Res ipsa Loquitur”- the thing speaks for itself. How I wish I had figured this all out sooner and left long ago. I have wanted to leave for a long time. Now I really am going to. Pray for me ya’ll. At least we don’t have children together. It will be hard to start over. Reading your stories gives me hope!
(Report abusive comment)
OxDrover says:
Dear Katiebug,
Thank you for your post, and WELCOME to LF. It is a healing and validating place. Just knowing there is a name for it, and that you are NOT the reason that what is going on is going on is a big help.
there are helps here, about leaving a psychopath, so READ EVERYTHING on this blog, read all the articles (there are hundreds of different articles on them an don healing ourselves) KNOWLEDE=POWER.
Keep your cards close to your chest, and do not let him know what you plan to do. Get your financial ducks in a row as much as you can and when you make the break, stay NO CONTACT with him. Not even a word, text, or email. Contact him through your attorney only and vice versa.
I am so glad you do not have children with him because you can then make a CLEAN break.
I will keep you in my prayers, but keep on coming here, reading and posting! Thi9s is the best support in the world! and BTW sitting in a church doesn’t make you a “Christian” any mroe than sitting in a chicken house makes you a hen.
(((hugs)))) and God bless your journey!
(Report abusive comment)
skylar says:
katie, welcome.
I hate to tell you this but if you can’t leave him right away, you will need to get really good at being deceptive. Start stashing cash somewhere. Be boring, don’t attract his attention and whenever he starts being very nice, realize that he is setting you up for a fall, be prepared. Since he is nothing but a facade, you will need to create your own facade. Remember, be bland, boring and dull, this makes them lose interest in you and will give you more time alone.
Read “why is it always about you?”. the book saved my life.
Look on the bright side, at least you are alive and you know the truth.
(Report abusive comment)
MariaLisa says:
katiebug11
Good luck to you. I went right into posting the first time but it really helped me to read more of the articles and order some books about sociopathy. I also loved the gift of betrayal ( that one is one this site aswell). it makes you feel youre not alone when you set out to embark on a new life, detoxing from him. which will take a long time…
(Report abusive comment)
slimone says:
katiebug,
Welcome to LF, the BEST bunch of insightful, knowledgeable, funny, supportive, asskicking, questioning, searching people I have ever run into.
It is GOOD good good that you know what you are dealing with and can use this information to plan your leaving.
Do whatever you can to tune out the ‘noise’ he is making and protect your heart. You cannot empathize with a word he says. Go No Contact inside. It feels weird, but it sounds as if you have already been practicing this.
Again, welcome to LF, glad you found your way here.
(Report abusive comment)
katiebug11 says:
Thank Ya’ll SOOOO MUCH!! I have been reading the different blogs for a few weeks and that is what finally fully opened my eyes to the TRUTH about him! He really is a N/P! Now that I know and I have been watching him very close- I see how he operates even clearer. And yes- I can sense the danger. No one would believe me except for here! I am going to take your advice because I know it won’t be easy. His family is crazy and they will do whatever he says because he is the “golden child”. He does not know I am leaving. I have not told him. I have threatened so many times over the years but here I am. So he won’t believe it. I will be moved into my new place near Atlanta and he will still be wondering what’s going on. He does not think I would EVER leave him. Yes- I am going to have to pretend a little longer. I know he will make my life hell if he found out I was really leaving. In some ways it is such a relief to know that there will be an end to the madness. And then sometimes I wake up with my fists clenched-ready for battle. Dealing with the anger is hard. About the winning- that struck home! He always has to win! He won’t even give a real apology -it’s always ” I’m sorry, BUT… you made me think I could, I thought it was ok,,,” etc. I am going to get some of these books. I read “The Sociopath Next Door”. Wow- that was scary! Something else that I have noticed is the dreams people have posted. I wish I had given mine more credit- he was almost always careless and rude to me in my dreams. He even cheated on me in my dreams before he did in real life ( I think ). I remember telling him to stop being so mean to me in my dreams. He said “They’re only dreams. They don’t mean anything.”. Oh yes they did baby! Yes they did!
I appreciate your prayers and support very much.
Thank you.
(Report abusive comment)
skylar says:
Katie, I’m so glad you found this blog and are able to begin planning the great escape.
So many of us ended up running for our lives in the middle of the night in sheer terror. Just because of the confusion.
To stay sane, laugh as much as you can. But NEVER LET YOUR GUARD DOWN.
Try to have one person that calls you or you call each night and each morning at the same time so that they know you are safe. Or better yet, an email. No need to comment, just a “hi, gnite” so that if you don’t email them they know to check on you.
I just want you to be safe while you are making plans.
Plan, Plan, Plan.
(Report abusive comment)
citykitty617 says:
Thank you Steve, for the term narcissiopaths. It should be a recognized, documented cluster B disorder. Clears my head a lot. I have gone between different therapists, telling me my husband is S, P, NPD … which was confusing because I see a bit of each in him. Thanks again, makes me feel less crazy
Much love to all and please take care of YOU!!!! You ARE all special and you deserve to put yourself first and love yourselves.
(Report abusive comment)
OxDrover says:
Dear CityKitty,
Yes, that is a GREAT NAME isn’t it, I think Henry, a blogger on here was the first one to use that term, but it sure FITS. I wish the professionals would quit using 4-5 different terms for the “narcissobaths” and just settle on one set of symptoms and one name. Would make things a lot easier for us all!
Glad to see you are still alround. Drop by more often!
(Report abusive comment)
henry says:
Oxy and Fellow Bloggers ..Tomorrow evening is the blind date I have mentioned here before. Have talked on the phone with him and he sounds nice. This date is a result of a friend of a freind etc – no internet involved..I was telling a good friend about it and she said ” Whatever you do dont mention __x, you dont want anyone to know you let that happen to you.” that hurt, I am not proud of it, it did happen and I have no intentions of discussing it with this guy, but all the same it made me feel like my friend thinks it was all my fault. Am I over reacting.?
(Report abusive comment)
Matt says:
henry:
I think you’re overreacting. I don’t think she put it all that artfully, and I think we can all agree that none of us deserved what we got or could have foreseen it. That said, why bring up the dead on a date? Even mentioning him adds a toxic element to the evening. If you don’t think about him and don’t bring him up, it will give you more time to talk to this new guy and learn about him. Have fun. You deserve it. More to the point, after S, you deserve to be with someone great. I’ve been with my new guy six months now and never been happier.
(Report abusive comment)
Rosa says:
Henry:
The friend said, “Whatever you do, don’t mention X, you don’t want anyone to know you let that happen to you.”
That sounds like a really insensitive comment, Henry.
You are not over reacting, at least in my opinion.
I would have reacted the same way you did.
Your friend sounds as if she is immune to being conned by a sociopath. She’s not. In fact, a comment like that just shows how vulnerable she really is.
Anyway, have a great time on your blind date, Henry.
You know the red flags to watch for.
Keep the conversation light and airy. He sounds nice.
Let us know how it goes.
(Report abusive comment)
henry says:
Matt and Rosa Good points from both of you..thanks – I guess considering the fact that I drove my friend nutz with talk of ___X she was just worried I would blow it…thanks I wont take any toxic thots with me good advice Matt
(Report abusive comment)
witsend says:
Henry,
It is great you have a date coming up! Good for you…
You know a first date is a first date….It should be fun
In the past I think I have made the mistake in the early stages of getting to know someone, of offering to much information about my past, to soon….Not necessarily in the first date but still early on in the relationship….
I think if I had it to do again at this point in my life I would offer less information and really focus on trying to get to know the other person. With offering alot less about myself in the early stages.
I don’t know if this is helpful or not to you but sometimes when we first meet someone being an open book is not in our best self interest.
I say go out and just have fun. You have a great sense of humor. Laughing on a first date is a good way to go….
(Report abusive comment)
OxDrover says:
Henry, I
think you got several good pieces of advice on that first date! In fact, focus on HIM, let him do most of the talking and ask “open-ended” questions (ones that don’t require a yes or no answer) to encouarge him to talk about himself.
keep your end of the conversation light and airy and general, go slow and just get to know each other as friends. Any relationship (romantic or otherwise) needs to have a basis of FRIENDSHIP before anything else. Chemistray is OK, but SOON WEARS THIN, BUT FRIENDSHIP + chemistry LASTS.
Have a greeat time! (((hugs))) oxy
(Report abusive comment)
skylar says:
Hi Henry,
yeah, you are overreacting.
she wants you to have a GREAT first date and she has an OBJECTIVE perspective. WE, (you and I) have a SUBJECTIVE perspective, so it’s hard for us to not think our experience was important – because it was. I talk about it to EVERYONE. Still, I know that your friend is probably right: you can’t build a friendship on negativity – or so I’ve heard. Have fun, be the person you were BEFORE the xP. LAUGH. Laughter is the best for making friends. People remember the people who made them laugh.
(Report abusive comment)
ErinBrock says:
Henry:
I am thrilled you are going to get out!!!
If it works….great…..if not….ya got nothing to lose!
The fact your open to the invite is incredible…..
You know what to do…..keep it easy, light and JUST ENJOY YOURSELF….with your eyes open!!!!!
Don’t do anything I wouldn’t do!!!!
Have fun!!
(Report abusive comment)
citykitty617 says:
Thanks, Oxy. I always check in and try only to comment if I have positivity to share. I am thrilled to see that Henry has a date! I also very much like ErinBrock’s comment about him enjoying himself… with eyes open. Reminds me of Eyes Wide Shut, which obviously is how many of us had lived for so long. Peace
(Report abusive comment)
OxDrover says:
Eyeswideshut? Yea I think I glued my closed! LOL
(Report abusive comment)
contact @imarriedmaurice says:
The thing I have noticed that seems most upsetting to a Narcissiopath………
Bigamy Stigamy
Bigamists practice their work in the dark
Defrauding and using their prey
It all seems like fun till they’re caught in the light
And their deeds see the bright light of day.
How strange they do seem when their deeds become known
A stigma that can’t be erased
Their talents are used for the basest work known
As a thing those who see will detest.
Sherry Parker Daniel
After a long wait the first move of the legal process moves forward in the case of John Maurice Jones of Savannah GA
Thanks to Lovefraud for helping me wrap my head around the “you can never truly understand it” issue of Narcissiopathy. Reading the posts & comments helps me feel deeply for those who have also been through this mess. I continue to advocate self esteem, a healthy dose of humor and personal growth to all. Encouraging all to believe there will be greater wisdom, joy and real peace at some point in their recovery, I am an advocate for victims fighting back through the legal system and not through the venues of defense against gossip and entangling oneself with the Poisoned Ones. Embrace the future, deal with the issues from the past and build a newer, wiser you for a much happier future life. I have found you can be happier than you ever were before. I survived and am alive! Everyday is a gift!
(Report abusive comment)
Ox Drover says:
Glad you are doing well—I tried to go to your web site and for some reason it wouldn’t open, not sure why. I had seen it before, BTW and is a good site.
Glad you are doing well and passing on the information.
You are definitely right too, every day is a GIFT!!!!
(Report abusive comment)
Spirit40 says:
Another thing I think we need to teach and learn is never let anyone see you sweat! and do not show your weakness we need to be stonger if we show weakness BAM they got something to use against you!
(Report abusive comment)
Ox Drover says:
Amen sister! They also confuse empathy with weakness many times.
(Report abusive comment)