When the pain caused by a sociopath doesn’t stop
PDF Almost three years ago, Lovefraud published the story of a man from the UK whom I called Tom. Tom’s wife left him for another man, took their children, had him arrested on false charges nine times and wiped him out financially. Here is the original story:
UK man says sociopath stole his life
Now, three years later, Tom still hasn’t seen his children. His ex-wife and her new husband, who also sounds like a sociopath, have removed the children from the UK. They live in France, at a small town near the Swiss border. “My heart bleeds every minute for the loss,” he writes. “It is a living bereavement and a nightmare from which I may never awake.”
I asked Tom if he was taking care of himself. Here’s his reply:
I have taken care of myself and for the most part I am okay. Some days are worse than others. I do have my very depressed and painful days … but I close my eyes, dream of days and memories of long ago, sleep and they pass.
I have to deal with my health and look after my parents. My mother phones me and cries about her grandson all the time. She has post-traumatic difficulties and says she cannot connect with her other grandchildren because of what she feels for my son. She feels a deep loss and is constantly worried about the kids. Every open discussion starts with them [opening the scar] and ends with them.
I am holding my own and my health has deteriorated but I am stable. I hold my family in the balance on many fronts. I am keeping it together but the pain is immense at times.
I am working and seem to have bounced back somewhat to where I used to be… the years have been tearful, painful and costly. I don’t think that I will every really recover.
Releasing the pain
How do you cope when there is no resolution in sight?
I asked Tom about how he is taking care of himself because that may be, for the time being, all he can do. Emotional pain weakens us and makes it difficult to continue the battle. So somehow, Tom needs to alleviate the pain, even though his circumstances have not changed.
This seems counterintuitive—how can he feel better when his children are still kept away from him? The solution is to deal with the pain directly. Pain can be processed and released, even when the source of the pain has not changed.
Pain comes from wanting things to be different. The solution is to accept what is, for the time being, reality. This does not mean giving up hope. It does not mean quitting the legal battle. But it does mean letting go of the internal upset that keeps us trapped, and makes us ill.
How do we do that? We allow ourselves to feel the pain and grief at our loss. This is best done privately, or perhaps with a skilled counselor. We allow ourselves to cry, moan with the anguish, perhaps pound pillows in our anger. We continue until we feel a release, and then we stop.
Tom will probably have to do this many times—the well of his pain and grief is deep. But each time grief is released, it makes room for healing. And from a place of healing, it is possible to find the internal resources to continue the battle.
written by Donna Andersen • Permalink •
candyharlau says:
i have discovered that my X-P has three children (that people know of), and minimum of 5 others that are illegitimate due to “making certain their seed goes on even if they do abandon their wives/girlfriends.” Making another being shows dominance, control and power. In my Xs case he doesnt even recognize the child in any way (paying support, etc). Just plant the seed and run. he would probably deny the DNA test anyhow. Sick, sick, sick. my X-P continues to screw one of the girls (a regular), but doesn’t even acknowledge the kid. the chick(s) he’s screwing must really be a piece of work, too!
i wonder what he’s plotting next. no wonder he can’t sleep. he’s either skeeming (sp?), screwing anything he can get his hands on, or working his co-workers/boss. gotta be f’ng exhausting.
i shutter when i think of him. (the girl i last saw him with was a beast…at least that made me feel better?!?)
I DESERVE SOOOOOO MUCH BETTER! You all do too! Remember that! Keep saying it…over and over.
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Twice Betrayed says:
Dear OxDrover,
Your post is just excellent! Thank your for writing it….I hope you do not mind…..I added it to my favorites to read again and again.
I have Dr. Hare’s books and Women Who Love Psychopaths. I read and reread them. But, somehow I cannot seem to make this type of behavior a reality. I know it’s true, I can accept it in rationality but not emotionally. I know their games, recognize them, can understand how they go down , what the next move is……and still get caught because I love them. I must do what you said: give up hope. This is very hard to do with my kids…….oh boy. Is it ever. I have done it with my x’s but my kids loved me and were such sweet and loving little kids. I raised them with great love and empathy. My younger one was always with me….hardly with her dad and my two older ones were not even in contact with their father. My son did not even meet his father until two years ago. I am here to testify….genetics wins. [I taught my kids empathy....they were right by my side] From my personal experience genetics wins. But, here again……my mom/brother were P’s and I chose at an early age to never be like them. However, they did set me up to be a victim to P’s. Your statement that they are evil…..choose to do evil…..sums it up totally. This is the bottom line.
Thank you again!
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Twice Betrayed says:
candyharlau:
Ho boy, can I relate. Mine liked to ‘keep it in the family’ and apparently my family liked to ‘keep it in the family.’ Bwwaaahhaaaaaaaaaa! [Hey, I can laugh at this now; PROGRESS] The last few years I kept waiting for some kids and/or wives show up that he had on the side. So far: none. Nobody ever stays with him long enough to get pregnant. He goes for the really young ones and they won’t take the crap women from my generation would. Plus: he is having ED problems now after being a handsome ‘stud’ all his life. Karma can be soooooooo good! :p
PS. My p’s last gf that I know of: looked like a female impersonator [bad one, I might add!] Another hahahahaha!
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OxDrover says:
Dear Twice betrayed,
I can relate, I am a retired medical and mental health professional and I KNEW THIS STUFF, and yet could not apply it to my own life. A friend who had a P son gave me a copy of Without Conscience, and I could SEE my P-sperm donor (out of 4 kids he had that we know of, only 1 was a P) but even after my P son started his criminal enterprises I could not RELATE him as a P until a couple of years ago. Even after he went to prison for murder, I still wanted to hang on to that malignant HOPE.
Oh, it was hard to let go of it and to FEEL THE PAIN—denial is not a river in Egypt, but I swam in it for SO LONG to keep the pain at bay. In reality though, it only keeps part of the pain at bay and PROLONGS IT FOREVER—like cutting a puppy’s tail off one INCH AT A TIME IS NO KINDNESS, neither is staying in denial…we still feel some of the pain through it, and it prolongs it until we give up the denial and then the FESTERED and INTENSE PAIN hits us—besides feeling so USED and in my case, feeling STUPID. I beat myself up for “letting him abuse me” for “hoping” and 100 other things that I blamed myself for. I never blamed myself FOR him, I realize genetics had the winning hand, but I did blame myself for not doing something about it sooner, and wasting my life.
Well, I eventually quit beating myself up, and quit crying and feeling so bad, and I decided to have a “memorial service” for my son. I got rid of every photo of him after he was 12 or so, and literally erases him out of the family tree/photoalbum. I don’t even think of him as the MAN who is so evil. The wonderful little boy I loved is GONE (as far as that is concerned my other sons are not the little boys they were) but the MAN just “inherited his organs” The hear still beats but it is not in my lilttle boy, the lungs still breathe but they are breathing air for a monster, not my little boy.
I actually felt afterwards that I had at last quit grieving for the little lost boy. My baby. Just as if he had a tombstone in the family plot. Who knows, maybe I will put him up a stone in the family plot after the egg donor is gone, with his birth and “death” dates. My other sons and I have decided though that if the state of Texas calls us to claim the MAN’s body, we will not, we will let them bury it in the prison yard, where it belongs.
Hang in there twice betrayed, it takes a while to get your emotions a4round what your mind knows. ((hugs))))
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Twice Betrayed says:
Oh, Ok, I feel much better now knowing this will come around! Thank you for sharing this with me. You have no idea how much this helps heal……just being understood and validated. I’ve never found this with any counselor. You know, it’s scary how most counselors do not understand this p behavior and scream that word CODEPENDENT! Ironically my older daughter that had [may still be going on in some form for all I know]the long affair with my X…..always cruelly passed it back onto me…..and was the first one to scream I was just a codependent. Well…..now that the cat is outta the bag I just cannot help but wonder what label she has for herself? [and him?] I have heard thru my younger daughter that now that my x is ‘free’ she no longer wants him………..why am I not surprised? Par for the course.
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jordeez says:
Breckgirl……I too am in my mid forties and have lost ,y relationship with my child and parents…….I had to do the work to realize my mother is a P and absolutely found joy in interfering with my son……that was the last straw….i have emotiontionally and physically detached and have nothing to do with her and never will again…..i still struggle with guilt about why i didn’t take action sooner….like before she had a relationship with my son….however i must go on and hope for the best….there are many signs however that my son is showing like his father and grandmother….all i can do is pray he somehow changes his perspective one day….take care
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OxDrover says:
Dear twicebetrayed,
“Co-dependent” is a word that has been defined in several ways, as has “enabler”—but they are NOT the same. We must accept responsibility for our own staying AFTER WE SAW THE ABUSE, and that we did not set boundaries and enforce them, BUT THAT SAID–that does NOT put the BLAME on us for the ABUSIVE behavior of the Ps.
There are many reasons and excuses of why we stayed, until we couldn’t do it any more. The book THE BETRAYAL BOND is a great one to explain the way we are BONDED emotionally and literally our BRAIN is changed so that it is DIFFICULT for us to get out.
NO CONTACT —getting away from them and NOT having any contact with them is 99.9999% of the time the BEST way to start healing. Don’t talk to them, don’t talk about them to others, don’t anwser their phone calls, or e mails, or texts, and dont’ try to get information from another friend/family member etc. PRETEND THEY DO NOT EXIST. That doesn’t mean we won’t try to process it all, but just get away from their INFLUENCE ON US AND OUR EMOTIONS. You cannot heal when you are getting NEW WOUNDS DAILY!
Jordeeze, my egg donor (mother is a title to be earned and my egg donor didn’t earn that title) may or may not be a “clinically diagnosable” P but she is definitely a psychopath by proxy with my own P son, doing his bidding, pretending to be a caring Christian woman, etc. and she is NONE OF THOSE THINGS.
Guilt about “taking action sooner” is not a positive thing I don’t think, because we did the best we could each day, and pounding on ourselves about not doing it better, sooner, etc. is not productive. You have DONE IT NOW–that is all that counts. Heck I was 60 before I “got it” and “did it”—the majority of my life wasted in unnecessary pain. Can’t go back and do “overs” so will go on from here. ELIMINATING all of the toxic people in my “space”—get them out of my life and any new ones as they pop up.
I realize I have “enabled” my P son, by being his dupe, just as my egg donor taught me—-keep my mouth shut, keep the peace–yea, what peace-?– and keep the family’s name “respectable” by pretending “none of this ever happened” TALK ABOUT DENIAL! NOPE, NO MORE. It DID happen, our family is NOT “respectable”–it is filled with monsters, from egg donor’s brother, Uncle Monster, to my own P offspring. I won’t hide any more or pretend none of it happened.
I am going to stand up on my hind legs like a human being and TELL THE TRUTH and not lie and cover up. It is NOT MY SHAME—it is theirs. I will not enable them to live lives of viscious abuse of others and pretend that they are “nice guys”—they just abuse people once in a while, but we won’t talk about that unpleasant thing. We will just pretend it didn’t happen.
I know how to “act like a lady” and that a “lady” would never admit to knowing that Uncle Monster abused his wife and kids, held his mother at gunpoint for 3 days and wouldn’t let the 80 year old woman eat, threatened to pour boiling pots of water over her—a “lady” wouldn’t do that it would ruin the family’s reputation. Well, I’m tired of being a “lady” if that’s what a “lady” is, and I will get on my big jackass Fat Ass, and get my skillet and hit the SOB over the head! (well, I would if he wasn’t dead! LOL) Maybe instead I will go to where he is buried and take along the Boss Dog to pee on his tombstone! But A “lady” would NEVER DO THAT!
Or maybe the egg donor’s definition of what a “lady” is is not what it should be, maybe the definition of a “lady” is not someone who keeps her mouth shut when there is injustice in front of her eyes, maybe a “lady” is not a person who knows someone in her family is abusing others and STANDS SILENTLY BY and then covers up for the abuser, telling the victim that she “must forgive” (meaning pretend it didn’t happen)
Heck, maybe a “lady” is one who stands up for what she knows is right, takes action to defend and protect herself or others who are being unjustly victimized, and lets the chips fall where they may, and if the abuser goes to jail, she thanks the jury as they walk out the door for doing “the right thing.”
Heck, maybe I AM A LADY after all—-even if it took me a life time to learn what a “lady” really is. Maybe I’ll start wearing white gloves when I ride Fat Ass. LOL
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PInow says:
Friends,
I need help once again. Here it goes: My P is playing the game of being good and a contributing member of society. It is totally a show. I welcome the change and hope it is for good, though a little voice inside is telling me that he’s only doing it out of hate for me and anger. Since you may recall my specific situation and I don’t want to dwell on it due to not knowing who is reading the blogs, I wanted to get some feedback: how long do you think the pretender is good for?
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hummingbird06 says:
My S/P was fun, funny, and described as likable by everyone he met. He never killed anyone, left anyone in financial ruin, or physically abused the many woman in his life. He drove me to suicide…but God had other plans. It was so hard for me to apply the sociopathic label to this sweet charmer especially when so many others have had such horrific and brutal experiences with their “evil” ones…yet his brutality was that of emotional seduction. I want possible newcomers to LF to know that these “mild” type of S/P’s are just as dangerous, cunning, and addicting.
I struggled for so long asking myself the “why’s” often discussed on this forum. I think if you have a relationship with someone and you look back at all the hurtful times and ask yourself “why did he” or “how could he”…and NO answers ever make sense…not “that he just didn’t love me enough”, whatever…but if you look at their personality traits (S/P checklist) and think of all those times from the point of view that he/she is indeed a S/P…it all makes sense. Every piece of the puzzle suddenly fits…it wasn’t that he couldn’t love ME..he CAN’T love period…he could be with me one day and another woman the next, because he has NO CONSCIENCE…he never missed me when we broke up, because he can’t experience EMOTIONAL ATTATCHMENTS… I could go on and on describing the symptoms of this diseased relationship right up until it’s death, and as mentioned elsewhere on LF…the only answers are”because THAT is what they do”
I KNOW this is what he is…I have been NC for almost 3 mths…yet I can’t bring myself to erase his emails…and I miss him. Tonight I cry as I miss that fantasy man…
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justabouthealed says:
Hummingbird06….just wait. After more time, more and more things still will hit you. I’ve had no contact since a phone call in Feb. 2008, and not seen him since June 07. Yet, now when I read his emails, I see lies and manipulation that even 3 months ago I could not see. You think you see it all…but no, more keeps hitting you. It is nice to have the email trail, because it keeps us from rewriting history. So I have not deleted mine, but I rarely read any of them anymore. Just if I need a reality check.
I’m finally at the point that EVERY memory I have on him now smacks of P behavior….so it is more difficult to even miss the fantasy man, because a man now acting like that wouldn’t appeal to me!
At some point….you simply lose your appetite for that kind of man. Even the romance novels that I loved by Georgette Heyer no longer appeal to me! I know find the heroes unattractive.
Same thing with the P I was involved with …charming, intelligent, also rich, successful, etc. But dig deeper and I found a lot of highly unethical things he did and then once you are intimate, you REALLY see the weird stuff!
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geminigirl says:
I really believe that to be cheated, conned, lied to, over and over,and ultimately REJECTED by your own adult child is the worst pain in Gods Earth. I cant imagine a worse pain. I used to believe in justice, but what is the justice in being totally rejected for 17 years by my younger daughter, now 43, and NEVER once being allowed to see any of her 3 kids, not even as newborn babies? Is there a worse cruelty, because if there is, id like to know what it is.After that lovely smoked salmon lunch, all these years ago,in 1993, and all the lovely gifts, pefume and flowers I showered on her, two weeks later I got a letter fromher to say I was an unfit Mother and she didnt want anything more to do with me. I adored my Mum, even tho she was emotionally manipulative. Id never have put her thru such anguish. The other D has used and abused me for 30 years. I kept hoping, against hope shed change, NOPE!!
didnt happen. I used to think, if I loved her enough, gave to her enough, forgave her enough, but she just ripped me off, time after time, no conscience,no remorse,no kindness! her poor ex husband had 15 years of her, and now he has the 3 kids full time. I now know that love doesnt work with some people, they are just plain BAD, and no, I dont feel guilty that I caused it! Must have come down the genetic line from my ex alcoholic husband. he used people too, it was embarrasing. I hope and pray Illgo to heaven when I die, because Ive lived in hell for too long! gem.XX
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justabouthealed says:
PInow, I will confess that at my age, I start getting everyone’s stories mixed up in my head. But I don’t have to be sure I have the specifics right to answer your question.
The answer to how long do you think the pretender is good for IS: just as long as that behavior gets him exactly what he wants and not a minute more.
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PInow says:
Justabouthealed,
Thank you for giving me reality check. I would have answered the same way if asked by another. Well, let’s hope society will benefit for a bit… And not a minute more, when he gets exactly what he wants. What a tiresome game to play… Gives me a sense of power and pleasure, believe it or not, to know that inadvertently I had contributed to this man’s positive behaviors (even though in a sick kind of way).
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PInow says:
he does not know yet that he was already diagnosed as an Aggressive Narcissist by someone whose testimony is admissible in court. Keep on holding on to those e-mails. Multiply them, store them, hide them – you never know when you might need to show proof of his sickness.
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hummingbird06 says:
Thanks Justabout…I suppose if I just remember that EVERY “kindness” had an ulterior motive, and every kiss was a lie…eventually I won’t even be able to picture him in my mind with anything but a totally negative connotation. I have dug deeper and yes there were unethical and illegal things going on…he just hasn’t gotten caught…yet.
I think what I miss most is the physical affection…the company…the best friend that I talked to every day about everything. It’s hard to be divorced and in your mid 50′s…kids grown and away…you think you have finally met someone and they practically destroy you. I don’t know if I could ever trust another man again, but it might be nice if Donna would expand LF into a dating site haha….Lovefraud and Beyond…after all we already know we’re all the same type of personalities! OK now I’m not going to cry myself to sleep…I’ve had a bit of a laugh…
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Obenauer says:
I come from a devastated family — devastated by a member of the family that is a sociopath. She divorced her first husband and abandoned her children. She managed to commit felonies and went through two more marriages, and managed to always convincingly play the victim, although she was the victimizer. Lastly she fought my brother and I when we were trying to protect our demented Mother, and now she has managed to become the victim again and has turned large sectors of my extended family and my brother and I. The pain doesn’t end, even though I have excommunicated my sister. I sometimes feel great sadness that my immediate family didn’t recognize my sisters sociopathic deceptions earlier.
Maybe we wouldn’t have be in such a mess if we had recognized her sociopathic manipulations. I am sorry for writing about myself. Sorry about Tom and his story. He lost his family. I almost lost my demented Mother in addition to family members that have been estranged because of my sister.
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ErinBrockovich says:
Obenauer:
It’s cathartic to write and read what you have written about your own life…..it offers you insight on your own situation.
We invite you to share as much or as little as you feel comfortable……IT”S A GOOD THING!
Reading your post, It sounded like my ex’s family……He could be your ‘sister’……
They wreak havoc throughout…….
I stepped out of his families lives…..they go back and forth, because they are of the mindset……’we are brothers, we are blood’……Fine….he’s screwed them all, they are aware and have been for all of his life…..SO if they think it won’t happen again…….HA! Oh yeah……. it will…..
Always the victim…..poor poor sociopath!
Stand tall and educate……
You can only control yourself.
Best.
XXOO
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justabouthealed says:
Hummingbird…I can relate. Everything that happened, it was like it didn’t have meaning until I told him about it.
That is what losing ourselves is about. a little any love is like that, but I was well beyond that!
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OxDrover says:
Obenauer,
Welcome, you have come to the right place. Many of us have had psychopaths in our families, and/or psychopaths in our beds, but all have had psychopaths in our hearts and then had those hearts torn assunder.
I too come from a psychopathic family, with at least a few Ps in each generation for many generations backwards, on both sides of my family. Currently only one psychopath is in our gene pool and he is in prison but that doesn’t stop him duping my egg donor into being his proxy persecutor and trying to kill all of us by sending his convict friends to us.
I share with you the pain of fighting family, and of being smeared to the community and other family members. Your sister is what she is and I am glad you have “excommunicated”—we call that No Contact or NC here—but I like your word better! Thanks, May I adopt it? LOL
Glad you are here, this site has been so comforting to me, validated my assessments and pain, and been uplifting when I was down. Again, WELCOME and God bless.
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hummingbird06 says:
Justabout, I hope to someday see your name changed to HEALED! But, we all know that can take a long long time, and I thank God that I have found people like you and OXY(love her posts) and all the others on LF to help me get through this.
On a couple of occasions my S wrote me checks to repay me for picking up some items for his new house. Of course I never told him how much it really cost and always took less than what I had spent, but when he wrote out the checks I thought it odd that he made them out to “cash” instead of my name until it occurred to me…after dating for almost 2 years (with a break of a few months) he DIDN’T KNOW MY LAST NAME! That was one of those puzzle pieces that I posted about earlier that fit afterwards. When we met on a dating site, I clearly told him my FULL name etc. not realizing, he of course, could hardly keep track with all the women he was contacting and dating at the time. I remember him perking up when his sister asked me in his presence once (after the ck incident) “what IS your last name —–?” He had this dumbfounded look on his face and I wish now that I had let HIM answer that question! But I kept right on loving him til spiritual and emotional death did us part..
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cutandrun says:
Hummingbird -
I can echo your experience – both of my “S”‘s were not the type to do any physical violence or financial harm, at least not huge financial ruin.
The first one posed himself as an exemplary Christian – one peg down from the Apostle Paul himself (gag) – everything he said/did had a “Christian” backing, so it would be impossible to charge him with anything. But the mind-play almost sent me to the psych ward. I noticed a clear pattern to his behavior with me and realized it was a game he was playing. Motive? I was giving him free daycare for his son (he couldn’t afford it due to lengthy court battle for custody), we had him and son over for meals at least twice a week, and we gave him a small loan. Which, amazingly, he paid back — but of course, if he didn’t, he wouldn’t be living up to his reputation. Except for the free daycare. He suggested we sue the boy’s mother for that. ha ha. The only other motive I can think of was just the joy of mind control. He told me how I should decorate my house (scripture verses on the walls), what I should be reading, what I should be listening to, how long I should be reading the Bible for each day…. gosh, since I have started with this wonderful group it is amazing the stuff I am remembering – this was at least 8 years ago….
The second S, which was spring of this year – I think he was mainly after sexual “entertainment”. Of course he spoke of love, but did not want to leave his wife (yep, I was the OW), I was going to be the “fries on the side”, or whatever he could take from me. And he could not give ME anything. Except anxiety attacks. Which did not seem to bother him, of course.
So glad I “cut and ran”, and my marriage is strong now and my hubby is protective, cause I am still in a weak place while healing.
And, like JAH said above, more and more stuff is hitting me. I did delete all his emails, all evidence, cause I didn’t think at the time that it was helpful for me to re-read. I think I’d like to see them again now, though, think I might be strong enough and would like to see what evidence shows up now that I can really see it. Oh well, I just have to remember what I can – it was all bad.
Could I ask for some feedback here? I have a situation. Growing up I had a best friend (second cousin) who lived on our street – so we grew up in each other ‘s homes. Her younger brother is my brother’s age and also HIS best friend. My friend, knowing what I now know – had some kind of personality problem. I endured a lot of crap from her growing up – very controlling. If we fought, I always had to apologize. then, we could act like nothing happened again. Well, one time at age 19, we fought, I didn’t want to take her shopping like she wanted me to, she stopped talking to me, and I never apologized. She hasn’t talked to me for 25 years now. We are civil when we HAVE to see each other. Family deaths, etc. But that is it.
Her family (who still lives on my street) is giving a huge party tonight to celebrate my brother and her brother’s 40th birthday. I have acknowledged my brother’s birthday on two occaisions already. But I am expected to be at this party. I have always been told that I must be “bigger than the situation”. I am tired of swallowing this. My children – two teens – want to go, and are free to, that is fine – but they don’t see why I have a problem with it, and think I should be obligated to go. My husband, amazingly, stands with me, and says we don’t have to go. His family would expect us to go (we are all either related or friends).
How do I get over this guilt and/or fear of what others will think if we don’t have a good enough excuse for not going. Or would it be better for me to just suck it up and go. what do you all think – I know it is a really minor issue but it’s really upsetting me.
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ErinBrockovich says:
PINow:
When they go on ‘good behavior’…..I would pay attention…..this is ‘what we want’….BUT…..It’s not the reality….I look at it as, I won’t get caught up and off balance by the good behavior……I PAY ATTENTION MORE……It will give you clues as to what he is up to.
It’s a breadcrumb…….follow the trail……as I recall, you are not done with your divorce/custody…..if I am correct…..definately follow the trail…..IT WILL LEAD YOU TO MORE RECON info.
The last time mine was nice…….I didn’t get sucked in…..I KNEW the reality……so I pulled on my ‘inner sociopath’ and played him and exploited his niceties…..he had no clue…..because, generally, I was nice most of the times……this time was no different…..I played nice……but I was gathering info and playing on his ‘nice act’…….pretented he was ‘drawing me in’…….and worked him for info and gave me access to his house he lived in……alone……HA!
This was when I found the drugs and took photos of all bills, cc’s, invoices, receipts, and JOURNALS……OMG….what a freak to write what he did in those journals……His writing, black and white…..twisted, but valuable to me in court.
It also kept me grounded as to WHAT he is……even know if I look back at some of this stuff…..It is so very clear he is sick and twisted, and there is no doubt!
So……to answer your question……..KEEP YOUR EYES PEELED…..he may think he sucked you in with his niceties…….but you will be in CONTROL this time!!!!
IT’s fake and he wants something.
PERIOD!
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hummingbird06 says:
Cutandrun, This is just a guess, but I’m thinkin that if this woman has had her personality flaw for all these years, you won’t be the only one trying to figure out how to decline the invitation simply to avoid HER! Send your kids, stay home with your hubby and hold your head up high. If they ask your teens where you are, they don’t have to say anything but my Mom and Dad are sorry but they couldn’t make it PERIOD. You don’t owe ANYONE any explanation other than that…I’ve learned that I really have only my conscience and God to answer to… it doesn’t matter what anyone else thinks and they’ll get over it! You’re simply sparing yourself being in the presence of someone who is nasty and unforgiving and who will probably make you so uncomfortable that you won’t even enjoy the whole PURPOSE of the party which is a birthday celebration! No guilt involved in that…good luck with your decision
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cutandrun says:
Thank you! Feeling much better about it now!
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PInow says:
You are right, Erin. He does want something, not from me per se, but from the courts. He’s “nice” to pull one over the court system, to show me in a bad light, to destroy my evidence. He’s now a changed man, hallelujah. We’ve all heard that one, haven’t we? I am not the most patient being myself, but willing to wait it out.
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hummingbird06 says:
I don’t know why my nights are becoming so difficult…I’m so afraid of going back to that deep dark place that made me feel that there was only one escape from the never ending pain. I hurt physically…emotionally…loneliness is setting in and I miss him, at least I miss what I thought he was… I hate that place and I hate him for making me want to go there…
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skylar says:
Oxdrover, do you live in Washington. Perhaps my P killed your husband. that’s what he does, slander, poison and sabotage: cars and airplanes and helicopters for anyone he doesn’t like or owes money to. No, of course I can’t prove it, but I know it’s true. He even said once to me: “so and so (can’t remember the name) noticed that everyone who ever fucks me over ends up dying in a plane crash.”
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PInow says:
Hey, sleepless ones. I just came from a movie, where I saw a preview of Stepfather. It was an interesting scenario: me on a date falling into rapid anxious breathing over a clip: a wanted murderer got into a woman’s heart and family, pretending to be the best thing they all could ever wish for. Had to explain to my date why I was breaking into tears and having a panic attack. Not a good date scenario.
Hummingbird, I share your experiences. yet, more than anything I want him to never return into my life. I found that there is a world inside that I have totally ignored while being with the P: my thoughts, feelings, my hobbies, desires, interests. Suddenly, when I looked inside, I realized that there is a girl that needs my adult protection, there are aspects of me that must still mature and I cannot afford to waste my tears over an illusionary person. When we are alone, we may learn to not feel lonely. It’s sometimes more lonely when we are with those who don’t share our views and don’t understand our heart.
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PInow says:
It’d be neat to see all Ps shipped to some deserted island. Wonder how long life will last there.
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ErinBrockovich says:
KIEVE:
Are you still here? I am sorry, I missed your post to me! Yikes….
From what you describe, he seems to have the lies down, betrayal, lack of empathy, compassion, chamelion type, great actor……and a stealth style……
He’s like a silent but deadly type. You can smell him, but not hear or see him.
I had a girlfriend who had a husband such as ‘yours’…..I said to her….(OH, I criinge), at an early part of my discovery, and trying to figure out ‘who’ ‘type’ of man I should date…… I said, I need a guy like her husband…….OMG…..was I wrong…
A month after making this statement….I found out he was sleeping with ’4th street’ downtown crack whores…..UNPROTECTED!
Now, this guy is a ‘nerd’ type….unassuming, as far as she has said, never violent or verbally ourtrageious. He’s a ‘sleeper’….one you would never expect, but he has done this the whole 18 year marriage. He has lied, cheated, manipulated…….but all silently.
So we can call/lable them whatever….BUT the reality is they are TOXIC! Toxic is good enough to be away from them.
I know it’s mind boggeling to try and figure them out…..and I just couldn’t give up that thought when I was in the ‘questioning’ period…..
It seemed easy to me when I started with the narcissism, then realized malignant narcisism…..then go to MN along with sociopathy. I too questioned Sociopath in regards to my ex…..but as time evolved and I educated myself more and more, and he exposed more and more behaviors, while I read others stories…….Oh, it became so clear……I think it was my way (and I know others here do the same), of ‘giving him the benefit of the doubt’….maybe my way of remaining in denial that I had married a man of such ‘caliber’.
As sick as the stories are……and they are…..You can only protect you and help your grandkids evolve emotionally with the stepdaddy-grandad situation.
My kids have seen my journey and investigated on their own. They hear the word sociopath and it’s up to them to find out what it means….and make the identification with their father.
Oh, they see it.
Part of the gift is the education and knowing we are away from the monsters. Toxic, sociopathic, abusive, silent but deadly type…..
I don’t think all sociopaths fit into one ‘bag’…..and they certainly do not have to have all the characteristics of one to be one.
I’m sorry it took so long to see your post, I hope this helps a bit….
Take your time, explore, read, post some more and most of all….and as hard as it is, MOVE ON with your life despite HIM and your ex DIL….we gotta lota life to live girl!
XXOO
eb
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geminigirl says:
Kieve, reading your post, and erins response to your story about the quiet, unassuming but still toxic and deadly sociopath, made me think of all the varius poisonos plants and animals in nature. Think of the Belladonna, or deadly Nightshade plant, its name means “beautiful lady”, it has lovely flowers and is actually related to the capsicum and potato plants, but it can kill. Or laburnum, what lovely yellow tassels of flowers, but its black seeds are deadly poison, or
Acacia, lovely pink flowers, but poison, a workman here stirred his tea with a twig of it, and was very sick.Or look at the box jelly fish, the blue ringed octopus, the funnel web spider,alldifferent, and all deadly.!!
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teacher123 says:
Cutandrun,
I don’t know if I can give you as good as advice as Oxdrover or some of the other truly wise people here, but I can identify with some of your trials. I ran into a female one at work who really played with my mind and made me feel worthless, and almost destroyed my career to boot. Anyway I would not have become involved either without all of the advances on her part. It was like they forget that part. But after all I guess it was a blessing in disguise because I too have someone that loves me at home. My family is great and I almost lost them over what? Someone who probably has genital herpes or some other STD’s because she comes onto everyone. Yes she was pretty, but I was playing a game that could not have turned out any better. The chances are things would have probably been much worse if things continued. Now I pity her husband or anyone who comes near her because I know how she is. She made everything about her to be so wonderful, but the reality is it is probably full of crap with flies.
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cutandrun says:
PInow – can totally identify with your second paragraph in your last post. Yep that is me too. Though I still deal a little bit with missing him, specially if my “real world” seems scary or boring or stressful.
And I’ve often been wondering WHY it seems to be taking SO LONG to get over a 15 week potentially bad/scary relationship that I had to sneak around for with a guy who probably already had two or three “replacements” lined up and never gave a crap about it.
But you hit the nail on the head – it took this time (versus the first time) to open up the “vault” and give the scared, wounded, unconfident girl on the inside recognition and a chance at healing. It’s not so much about the “S” experience, but about solving 42 years of hurt and fear. Mostly fear.
Teach – yes I can only wonder what all I’d be getting myself into if I kept up with that guy. He played Mr. Family Man to me, even tried to play the religious card – both ways, but I’m sure he is anything but.
By the religious card I mean that I was explaining my beliefs to him and he said that “he had no teaching in that regard”. But then when we were “breaking up”, he said that 18 mos. ago they were attending such and such a church – one I am familiar with in our area. How convenient for him, like that would have played on my heart strings – I called him on it and he said he was afraid to tell me cause I knew so much more about theology than he did. Bravo! Another pity play to boot! Almost worked, too.
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shabbychic says:
hummingbird06… I understand exactly what you’re writing about. I’m kind of stuck in that place myself.
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hummingbird06 says:
shabbychic, Why do you think we can’t get over them?? I KNOW he isn’t the man I perceived him to be, yet I miss him…especially the past few days.I don’t know about you, but I personally am the kind of woman, that when I fall in love with someone…I never really get over them until I fall in love with someone else. It can take years but the feeling and the longing just doesn’t go away for me. I guess that scares and depresses me…the thought that I could be broken-hearted for a long long time over someone who wasn’t even worth my love in the first place. I don’t think I will feel suicidal again, but I just don’t know and it worries me sometimes.
I bought “Snakes In Suits” today…at least the more I read and study the more negative my memories of him will become…
How long have you been NC?
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ANewLily says:
Hummingbird06 (and Shabbychic also)
I just want both of you (and anyone else) to remember that “This, too, shall pass.” Someone wisely mentioned that life is made up both magic and tragic events.
My own analogy that I adopted years ago was that there can not be a mountain without a valley. (I grew up on the flat and uninteresting prairie of SD with the majestic and beautiful Black Hills a half a state away.)
Soon after this, I heard an Army General remind the audience that a valley is where the battles are fought and won. The mountain top is for rest and further battle planning.
Hang on. Bad times don’t last just as good times don’t last. They just alternate through our lives. Be of good cheer either way!
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ANewLily says:
Dear Hummingbird,
This is just my thought after reading, “…when I fall in love with someone…I never really get over them until I fall in love with someone else.”
Is it possible this phenomenon is the result of past history and may not even be your truth anymore, but a bad habit of thinking that you can change?
Like I said, just my thoughts.
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hummingbird06 says:
Lily, Yes it certainly has always been the case in my past, and I don’t know why…it’s like I have a hole in my heart that needs to be filled. Probably akin to the empty nest syndrome Mom who goes out and gets a new pet when her last child goes off to college. I even tried to replace him with a kitten which I promptly named “Rebound”…as he’s my rebound boyfriend and I love him to death. But anyhoo…I hope you’re right and that time will bring me out of this valley…and kitty will be enough unless and until God sees fit someday to bring someone true and honest into my life. One thing I am really learning about this site is how much we learn about OURSELVES as a result of our experiences with the S/P/N’s. It may someday lead to the question I often ask God as to why he would allow this to happen to me….thank-you for your post Lily…thank-you
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hummingbird06 says:
sleep well my new friends…one day at a time right? hopefully not too many tears will hit my pillowcase tonight…and the fantasyman won’t invade my dreams as he does on occasion…I’ll pray for me, and you, and you, and you…and him…
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learnthelesson says:
Dear Hummingbird06 -
Fall in healthy love with yourself… love yourself, treat yourself to kindness, goodness, positive reinforcement…you’ll find the greatest love of all inside of yourself – that will fill the void you speak of in your heart. And at the same time it will enable you the opportunity to share the love of yourself with others and someone special if that person earns your trust and love the healthy – real – honest way.
My prayers are with you tonight..Many if not all of us have been where you are, some of us are still there .. and many of us are still learning and growing. Just this past year I started to learn to “love” myself in ways I thought would/could/should only come from others. It has been my greatest lesson from the most awful experience… I too often asked God why he would allow this to happen to me… when I was honest with myself I realized I had a part in allowing certain things to happen to me, and I also realized I could make a difference in what I did with what I learned about what had happened… I learned to love myself – in a healthy way – not selfishly or arrogantly – it sounds so simple – but its been the most difficult lesson of my life thus far. God bless you!
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MariaLisa says:
Hi everybody,
…..I havent been on here for a little while, I suppose I have been doing ok. I have a question to everyone/anybody that can relate.
What do you do when out of the blue the anger builds up again. Memories of my sociopathic ex come to mind every single day for a large proportion of the day. I ahve been capable of dealing with it at least to the degree of functioning ok and not crying that much anymore. But now at this moment I feel enraged again. Not just sad, not hurt, but plain angry. The crazy things he said and did, how he manipulated me etc etc and I bought it all, I kept on believing in him, being such a good partner to him, I was so loving and understanding of him, and I think back of specific things and I just wanna ……do something. Dont know what. Manifest this rage, this anger, this feeling SO played, PLAYED! And its a useless circle that I have gone through before, I keep looking and thinking about actions, ofcourse constantly concluding that any action undertaken with this anger is bad for myself, destructive, not healing etc. But it makes me feel so powerless and again played. Used up….
Anyone ideas?
Thanks!!!!!!
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ANewLily says:
MariaLisa, Welcome back. I’m sorry you are still dealing with some of the aftermath! I understand it is pretty predictable and normal, though.
You asked for ideas about handling the rage. I wonder if the technique I was given to handle painful PTSD symptoms would work with rage, too. It certainly is an emotion.
I was advised when a trigger prompted the physical sensations of sheer agony, I should just let the emotions flow over me, really allow myself to FEEL them and for as long as it took for the sensations to recede. At first, this was often a day long length of time but by the second year, it was like I was purged of most those emotions (mainly terror) I had obviously felt but had obviouly supressed at the time of the immediate danger and only came periodically. I was advised not to think, remember the events, nor analyze, just FEEL what ever emotion came out. I rarely have a PTSD symptom any more, even with triggers.
Others have expressed the difficulty of knowing what to do with the rage when it finally comes. Some say that experiencing this rage is one of the levels of healing. (I’m still waiting for mine to surface.) I had to get rid of the other “junk” first, I guess.
But, your post made me think that the rage is very similar to fear and terror, that is, during the bad (and confusing) times during the relationship, in order to “survive” what was coming next, that the anger at that time was suppressed. Now it is necessary for healing to really occur by allowing ourselves to FEEL the rage.
Just remember, though. This, too, will pass. Neither good time or bad ones last forever, just alternate in our lifetimes.
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MariaLisa says:
Hi ANewLily,
Thanks for your response. Does that technique have a name? Do I do that just by myself? And are you saying this has helped you A LOT? Like taken away a lot of the anger?
I feel the anger and I cant say Im ignoring it ( at all actually), I am torn between people telling me to just not think about it again, that me thinking back just feeds into it, and thinking like you said I need to deal with it. but how many times does one deal with it….when does it stop.
The anger Im feeling now is close to when I just found out the monster he is. Not the same cause when I was in that process I felt I lost myself for a while. I never experienced something like that before and my childhood wasnt happy g lucky either, but this whole ordeal made me almost lose my mind. im not at that stage anymore, but I still have fantasies all the time about conversations I would have with him, scenario’s of how I make sure everyone around him knows about him, or just plain aggression on him. I know I wont do this, but the rage has to go somewhere in my mind I suppose…I think If I tell people what goes on in my mind, people will think Im completely and utterly obsessed with what he’s done to me and with sociopathy too…
About your technique. If I would just feel it, I think it would drive me mad and have me hitting my walls and crying like crazy until my body wouldnt take it anymore….And that would be pathetic. So now that I think of it, yes I do push it away after the wave comes over me for more than 10 minutes….
How do you start it…?
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geminigirl says:
Maria Lisa,I totally understand you. I was exactly the same and still am, some days. We have to remember, you have to get the anger out! Its healthy and normal to feel anger, its like a boil bursting, you have to get rid of the poison before it poisons your whole body, mind, and emotions. Pound a pillow,find somewhere remote with no people if possible, and scream and cry, it helps!Remember, we have held in and denied this anger, wrath, and rage for so long, just to survive day to day. It has built up like the pressure in a pressure cooker.One day it has to explode!Dont ty to push away the wave of pain and anger,imagine you are a surfer, with a huge wave coming at you. Instead of the wave swallowing you up and drowning you, just try to ride the wave,it will carry you, and eventually it will cast you up on a peaceful, sandy quiet beach,where you can “come to” and start to heal.Imagine you ar a seagull, riding the thermals, be carried up nd away, let yourself go. The more you fear and block this rage and fear, the worse it will be for you.Let it wash over you. I promise you wont be killed by it!I read this,”I sometimes have bad days. Then I remember, I used to have bad years!”Be kind to yourself.Love and {{HUGS}} geminigirlXXX
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kim frederick says:
Marialisa, OMG do I identify with your anger. I have been NC for two years , and still think about my S/P everyday. Not in a sad yearning way, but in a what a peice of @#&% way. After my last break up I have been accepting of the whole situation, but the time before, for an entire year, I woke up angry, went to bed angry and spent the whole day in between angry. I was angry about being angry, because I felt it meant I was still somehow owned by him. Still there was nothing I could do. I have come to believe that this is just a part of the process and can not be denied or passed over. After all, it is kind of like someone has died. Take a look at the five stages of grief of Elizabeth KUblar-Ross. 1-denial 2- anger 3-bargaining 4-depression 5-acceptance. Kublar-Ross says we can go through these in no particular order and circle back through them until the work is done. Don’t beat yourself up, you are right where you’re supposed tp be. Do the work and God bless. One day You’ll wake up and realize he was totally benieth you. You’ll ask yourself what the hell you ever saw in him. As for myself, still thinking about him, well I don’t know, but I think it has a lot to do with reminding myself about this thing called sociopathy, and learning all I can so I don’t fall prey, again. Good Luck, KF
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skylar says:
Marialisa, I’m still in the same spot you are. But I hate crying my eyes out because it makes them puffy for two days. I only left my P in May. For the next 4 weeks my heart raced at 120 beats per minute night and day. I lost 30 pounds.
I’m not sure what the emotions I felt were.
When I first left him I was terrified of him. At some point, a day or two later (I think) it turned to euphoria because I felt finally free of that life. For the past 5 years I would wake up every morning and curse that I was still alive. I prayed God would just take me in my sleep. Being away from him felt libertating. Knowing that the anchor I had felt for so long was caused by him: gas-lighting, sabotaging, slandering and poisoning me. Add to that, I was his slave and his savior (or make that his mommy). I had been confused by my life for 25 years because I had believed that he loved me. When I finally figured it out…I thought “God I’m free!”
Then, when I found out about malignant narcissism, I was floored. Finding out that there is a sea of these creatures out there was terrifying. Why hadn’t I known? Why didn’t anyone tell me? Why isn’t this taught in schools? How the heck are we just supposed to know? I lost 25 years because nobody told me when to run.
Now, I guess I’m cycling between anger and depression and acceptance. Sometimes I want to go back to him and tell him that I will be with him again, just so I can destroy him the way he tried to destroy me. Then, I just want to move on with my life. He got so many other people to gang up on me. My neighbors, the police, his friends and my sister. How he did this is still beyond me. Closure will forever be elusive for me without the answer to that. How could he get people who DON’T EVEN KNOW ME AND HAVE NEVER MET ME, TO HATE ME?
I don’t know how to get past it. I mean I think I know it has to do with letting go of ego and control, but how?
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Matt says:
MariaLisa:
If you haven’t done so, read Kathys articles on the stages we go through in recovery — especially the article on anger.
When the anger hit me, it was absolutely volcanic. I felt the anger literally pouring out of the ends of my hair. What helped me was that I could take strike back at him, to a certain extent, without having to engage with him directly. I went after him for the money he owed me via the IRS. I then set all those creditors holding unsatisfied judgments against him after his sorry ass by letting them know where he worked so they could garnish his wages. Satisfying? You betcha.
However, this is also one of those things, I’ve learned, that time actually helps. I picked up the pieces of my life. I met new friends. I started seeing a really nice new guy. And gradually, as my life started becoming about me again, rather than my life being all about the S and serving his needs, my focus on S lessened, and my focus on me increased and I realized that the anger was just too exhausting and not healthy. But, you can’t skip the nager phase. It is part of the healing process. The longer you try to sove the anger down, or put it aside – because you are listening to people who tell you to “get over it already”, the longer you are going to remain mired in it. Let the anger fly. You are in the right place (LF) that people are not going to tell you not to feel angry. And ultimately you will get to the place that you just decide to let it go.
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ANewLily says:
MariaLisa, you wrote, “1) Does that technique have a name? 2) Do I do that just by myself? 3) And are you saying this has helped you A LOT? 4) Like taken away a lot of the anger?”
1) If the technique has a name, I don’t know it. A professional counselor told me about it. The trick, though, is to just FEEl the rage, not think any thoughts about it or connected with it.
2) Yes, it’s scary but best done when alone. You won’t die.
If it gets “too heavy”, just stop and take a few deep breaths and then continue.
3) Yes, I think this technique helped MORE than a lot.
4) It was fear and terror that I was trying to get rid of rather than anger. But, I really do think the technique “worked” even without thinking last Oct 1st & 2nd (2008) when the rage finally did arise after an illegal move EX made with my maintenance check — and got away with it.
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hummingbird06 says:
Learnthelesson,
I seem to have trouble treating myself to a pedicure let alone much else…yep…giver not a taker, never ask for help, I can do it myself, it’s OK that you stood me up, I’m gonna buy this for him..he’ll love it…..I’m too nice…just like the rest of us. Always thinking of those I love more than myself….THAT is why the S/P’s want us! They know we will give and give until there’s nothing left. I’m sure a therapist would say something to the effect that I have a deep seeded self loathing due to a lifelong feeling of inadequacy that has made me willing to self sacrifice to the point of identity loss while all the while just wanting to be loved. I don’t consciously know this or think about it, except for the part about feeling inadequate for men. I have a loving family, had a nice childhood…not a lot of physical affection or verbal expressions of love though, which was typical of my parents generation…but an intact loving Christian home with many blessings to be thankful for. Why I let men and ESPECIALLY this S/P treat me like crap is part of the mystery I need to figure out. I would like to think that we all can strike a balance between maintaining our sweet, altruistic, and nurturing personalities, and becoming women that stand up for themselves and their rights…pamper, love, and take care of themselves. And that through this quiet confidence, our inner peace will shine to light the way…
Thank-you for reminding me of this…I’m trying so hard to hold it together, to move on and learn from this experience …
good night all…time to find my kitty
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shabbychic says:
hummingbird06… sorry, I was not home all day… maybe you’ll see this in the morning! That was always my pattern too, to forget someone I would “fall in love” with someone else. Always had to have somebody. This is the first time I’ve ever really been alone… and I’ve posted ad nauseam about it on LF!! My daughter lives 3000 miles away. I have been NC for about a year and a half with the one assclown I was with for 14 years, and now about 4 months with the next one I became involved with because I was so needy and lonely. I hooked up with the 2nd one even after reading and reading here on LF for months, just didn’t get it, but I do now!
I was wondering if anyone else has experienced what I’m going through with anger… I am directing the anger at me, my choices, where the choices have left me. I care about myself more right now than I ever have before in my life, but the anger is making me hate that part of me that made all these bad choices… it’s really bad.
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