When the pain caused by a sociopath doesn’t stop
Almost three years ago, Lovefraud published the story of a man from the UK whom I called Tom. Tom’s wife left him for another man, took their children, had him arrested on false charges nine times and wiped him out financially. Here is the original story:
UK man says sociopath stole his life
Now, three years later, Tom still hasn’t seen his children. His ex-wife and her new husband, who also sounds like a sociopath, have removed the children from the UK. They live in France, at a small town near the Swiss border. “My heart bleeds every minute for the loss,” he writes. “It is a living bereavement and a nightmare from which I may never awake.”
I asked Tom if he was taking care of himself. Here’s his reply:
I have taken care of myself and for the most part I am okay. Some days are worse than others. I do have my very depressed and painful days … but I close my eyes, dream of days and memories of long ago, sleep and they pass.
I have to deal with my health and look after my parents. My mother phones me and cries about her grandson all the time. She has post-traumatic difficulties and says she cannot connect with her other grandchildren because of what she feels for my son. She feels a deep loss and is constantly worried about the kids. Every open discussion starts with them [opening the scar] and ends with them.
I am holding my own and my health has deteriorated but I am stable. I hold my family in the balance on many fronts. I am keeping it together but the pain is immense at times.
I am working and seem to have bounced back somewhat to where I used to be… the years have been tearful, painful and costly. I don’t think that I will every really recover.
Releasing the pain
How do you cope when there is no resolution in sight?
I asked Tom about how he is taking care of himself because that may be, for the time being, all he can do. Emotional pain weakens us and makes it difficult to continue the battle. So somehow, Tom needs to alleviate the pain, even though his circumstances have not changed.
This seems counterintuitive—how can he feel better when his children are still kept away from him? The solution is to deal with the pain directly. Pain can be processed and released, even when the source of the pain has not changed.
Pain comes from wanting things to be different. The solution is to accept what is, for the time being, reality. This does not mean giving up hope. It does not mean quitting the legal battle. But it does mean letting go of the internal upset that keeps us trapped, and makes us ill.
How do we do that? We allow ourselves to feel the pain and grief at our loss. This is best done privately, or perhaps with a skilled counselor. We allow ourselves to cry, moan with the anguish, perhaps pound pillows in our anger. We continue until we feel a release, and then we stop.
Tom will probably have to do this many times—the well of his pain and grief is deep. But each time grief is released, it makes room for healing. And from a place of healing, it is possible to find the internal resources to continue the battle.
written by Donna Andersen • Permalink •
Elizabeth Conley says:
I think Tom’s situation is every parent’s worst nightmare. Living a nightmare could probably kill a person.
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Monday, 13 July 2009 @ 10:04am
breckgirl says:
I cannot imagine the pain Tom is suffering. My two children are the PRIMARY REASON I pull through and keep me working to find my way out. Maybe for him the hope is when they are grown he can re-establish a relationship with them.
My children and I are under duress from the threat of the N/S/P that lives 4 blocks away and is currently in jail for stalking me and threatening me and my children. He has been bailed out over 15 times in the last 18 months for various violations of the TPO and spent 3 two week visits in the psych hospital.
For various reasons I am not able to move away or I would have so I face the “fear” daily. I am regularly blindsided by events that bring back up all the trauma and horror and I have to maintain my composure as so many people I work with, and the parents at our school have no idea – I do not want a stigma attached to my kids.
What has helped me is coming to terms with reality – what is versus what I wish it was. Taking rational steps to protect ourselves has also given me peace. Alarms installed – check; Guns purchased – check; Training at the gun range – check; Neighbors and police department alerted and updated as needed – check…
He is the last in a long line of narcissists and maybe sociopaths to be allowed to affect my life. I am so done with other people’s selfish bs – I have through this process come to realize how much of my life since childhood I have spent trying to please impossible to please people – people who rarely if ever expressed any concerns about what would please me or my children.
The healing from this monster has affected how I view my parents – and allowed me to finally and fully emotionally detach from them and others. I am in the latter half of my middle years and my most fervent hope is I teach my children well so they make healthy choices for themselves and their lives.
Inventories, learning what my part is in the messes I have been a part of, grieving the losses I have had – even those from childhood -( both my parents are N’s … ) have been part of the process and I am finally beginning to wake up happy to be alive again. It is truly wonderful.
Part of the healing has been all the wisdom I have found here and various places online. Knowledge is such a powerful tool as is acceptance.
The Co-dependency labels that get tossed around I rejected out of hand and I think the blame the victim psychobabble really delayed my being able to get to the emotional resolution I needed and grow strong enough to go to No Contact as he was willing to exploit me as long as I was willing to be exploited.
For a long time – years – I did not know what was happening – but once I learned what the dynamics were and that it is what is good about me that had me enmeshed with him (and harmed by others close to me) – instead of some fatal flaw in me that caused me to – well I could never figure it out really – was there something wrong with me and I was never going to be treated with love and kindness or was I being treated properly and I my expectations were just too high for how others were supposed to behave – (even though I certainly had to meet high standards….)
When I read Dr. Carvers article on Love and Stockholm Syndrome – http://counsellingresource.com.....index.html
that really accelerated my recovery.
Anyway – I pray Tom finds some emotional healing. I still have a hard time with short term memory and the physical toll the stress has placed on me is just now becoming apparent and so I am trying to focus on my own physical health as another source of healing my emotional and mental health.
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Monday, 13 July 2009 @ 11:50am
breckgirl says:
By the way – pretrial court date is the 22nd of this month and then there is another date not yet set – if I am “lucky” he will get a year – one year for everything he has done
- and he is still trying to call me from jail so doubtful a year is enough … This is the second trial
- he plead out to the first sets of charges so a trial was avoided. He was given 3 yrs probation and anger management and in the first month was kicked out of anger management, pee tested dirty repeatedly and eventually stopped showing up for his probation officer – he is so so special he should not have to do these things see… And he will maybe serve 6 months of anything he gets if I am lucky – but any respite is better than none.
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Monday, 13 July 2009 @ 11:54am
ANewLily says:
Elizabeth wrote, “I think Tom’s situation is every parent’s worst nightmare.”
I agree because it is mine, too. I’ve lived mine for 7 1/2 years and JUST yesterday one of my four adult children called me and I am overcome with JOY. One daughter, the youngest, has been calling me every week (and every day of the month of March I was hospitalized) for 14 months. I have suspicions that she is the “family” sleuth as she is a surgical nurse and she knows I have been in ill health since I left so suddenly to save my own life from their father’s attempt to kill me. (Actually I had been ill for the 10 months before I left, also, which my GP told me was due to my toxic (his word) “marriage.”
Because as Elizabeth also wrote: “Living a nightmare could probably kill a person.” I have experienced the pain of losing a child to death but as severe as that was NOTHING compares to the pain of “losing” my adult children due to a terrific and completly unexpected smear campaign. Our children were ages 46, 44, 38, and 35 when I packed a suitcase, took my laptop and took a plane to a city 1800 miles away. Each of the children were married with children of their own and all lived within 5 miles of us, now their father.
But I won’t dwell on my continually failing health. I found Lovefraud AFTER all the vindictive divorce and settlement was over, not even knowing such online support was available when I really needed it. I did get support from a local chapter of National Domestic Violence for 14 weeks. PTL
I have been on this board to try to help others, since I understand the ramifications of living with a disordered person. BUT, the major reason, perhaps selfish, is that I didn’t know anyone who had experienced parental alienation,
(Tom, that is what it is called) and although I didn’t want to hear of another’s similar nightmare and its pain, I had an inner hope that someone could “identify” with me.
My story is so long but I’ll tell Tom what my emotional experience of pain has been like. First, there was no let up or lessening of the pain for 5 long years. A couple of times I tried to have a doctor prescribe anti-depressants but neither doctor would give them to me. They said I wasn’t depressed but grieving (as was normal for my situation.)
My solution was (and is) to try very hard to put them all (and the 11 precious grandchildren — the youngest was 12 when I left — into God’s Hands and leave them there. My faith is strong but I couldn’t do it more than a day or two at a time. I always “took” them back from Him!
At one time, a few years ago, I did try to set up a mediation between the children and me, but the lawyer, very knowledgable about DV, told me he wouldn’t take the case. He said, “You have to accept that you won’t get your children back until your EX either dies or moves away.”
He, a doctor, is in good health and will never move away from his practice, so I had no choice but to ACCEPT the unacceptable. I finally accomplished this about a year ago when I learned that my weekly emails and cards to each of them was causing them grief from their father — and me as he continually found ways to try to destroy me emotionally and financially for DARING to leave him!
The No Contact has been helpful to my healing. Therefore, the JOY of one daughter contacting me a little over a year ago and then YESTERDAY, another of our 3 daughters called me! I truly had given up, remembering the lawyer’s harsh prediction.
So, Tom, I don’t have any real advice for you. BUT, I can offer you my truly heart-felt empathy and caring.
No, I guess I can echo Donna’s advice: Take care of yourself, especially your health. This experience is really a killer! I don’t know the age of your children but I feel sure that their attachment to you is permanent — even though they are in France.
Perhaps try to accept that you won’t see them again until they are of age — but don’t give up your back of your mind hope that you will see them again sooner than that.
With all the hospital bills, doctor’s appointments, and medications I am almost financially destitute. I do wish I had the money back from my lawyer, a friend, who did try to help me solve this problem earlier on. NOTHING she did, with supreme effort, was stronger than my Ex’s desire to destroy me.
I have no idea whether or not anything I have said is helpful to you — our domestic situations are obviously different. But, you are still young. You can recover. At 72, I’m not currently sure that I can.
May God’s strength and comfort surround you every day. He IS real.
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Monday, 13 July 2009 @ 12:51pm
OxDrover says:
Dear Donna,
QUOTE: “Pain comes from wanting things to be different. The solution is to accept what is, for the time being, reality. This does not mean giving up hope. It does not mean quitting the legal battle. But it does mean letting go of the internal upset that keeps us trapped, and makes us ill.
How do we do that? We allow ourselves to feel the pain and grief at our loss. This is best done privately, or perhaps with a skilled counselor. We allow ourselves to cry, moan with the anguish, perhaps pound pillows in our anger. We continue until we feel a release, and then we stop. ”
The above statements are so right on and so IMPORTANT I thinik we should each have them tattoo’d on our palms where we can read and re-read them every hour if necessary!
For so long I was caught in a vortex of MALIGNANT HOPE that kept pulling me downward into the abyss of pain, darkness and defeat. Losing a child (children) I think is the worst nightmare that any parent can face, and many times I felt like my P-son’s face as a small child should have been on a milk carton that said “If you have seen this missing child, please call 1-800-missing” There is more than o ne way to lose a child.
Unfortunately, even after I saw my child was “gone” I held on to a milligant hope of denial that he was REALLY GONE TODAY…it was only accepting that (1) what IS is REALITY and (2) accepting that reality as something I can NOT CHANGE was I able to put my pain aside and to accept that what I wanted was not possible. In Tom’s case, his desires are not possible TODAY but maybe in the future his children will be returned to him. I don’t have that option to even continue to hold out “hope” as mine is just as “dead” to me as if he physically died.
The stresses we dfeel with the continual grief over our losses does have a big negative impact on our health, and my health deteriorated markedly. Now that I am taking care of myself, my health, both physically and mentally is better, but it takes some time for our bodies as well as our minds to recover and heal.
God bless each of you here on this journey to accept WHAT IS REALITY, rather than continuing to abuse ourselves FOREVER with THE PAIN OF LOSSES WE CAN’T CHANGE.
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Monday, 13 July 2009 @ 1:04pm
Tilly says:
I always believed that losing a child through their death is something I could not imagine, as it would be so painful, and something one would NEVER recover from… even in a lifetime.
Now that my three children are grown, (my daughter is a psychopath aged 30, my middle son is damaged from being brought up by his psychopath murderous father and is aged 27 and my youngest son has just turned 20 and has a different father.) I have only just realized (since i came onto the LF site a few months ago, (after years of torturing myself in the F.O.G.), that I actually only have one child, ( my 20 year old). The other two have been dead to me since they were about 12 years old and I was in denial. I have given up hope of ever having my daughter “back”. I have accepted it with her and I am grieving it badly. I have some days where I can accept it with the 27 year old son but then the FOG still engulfs me.
But God has given me my youngest son, whose love is greater than anything I have ever experienced in my life. And for that my life is worth living. His father was a narcissist addict. Thank God we got rid of him when my youngest was very young or my youngest wouldn’t have stood a chance.
I tell this because it is my story. We are all so different, but this is my truth. At this moment my youngest son is driving around my 30 year old psychopath daughter and his cluster B girlfriend. Serving them with his generosity and kind heart. Unaware that they don’t have the capacity to care about anyone but themselves.
I keep my mouth shut now, because Oxy taught me that that is what I have to do at this point in time. And I believe her – only because she has been through it and I can tell its the truth.
Who knows what will happen with Toms psychopath wife and her psychopath boyfriend ? Anything could happen!
Why, if Tom told her he wanted nothing to do with the kids ever again because he was happier than ever before, he could be “stuck” with them all by tomorrow !!
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Tuesday, 14 July 2009 @ 2:42am
kate09 says:
I feel for Tom. To not see your children grow would be heart ache. I pray that his children r able 2 come 2 him and fight for a relationship.
I know first hand what stress can do to ur health. Some days I know it’s the Grace of God that keeps me going. I feel anger, loss & heart ache. I’m working everyday to try to brake away from the toxic person in my life but everytime I feel that I am close to walking away.. I get sucked back in by fear of rejection.. I am reading Betrayal Bond and I know 100% that this is the kind of relationship I have. I know I am a strong person. I take care if three small children by myself daily. With one of them having special needs and another one an infant. I just wish I could be stronger and completly let go of the junk the S brings in my life.
I hope Tom finds peace soon..
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Tuesday, 14 July 2009 @ 6:37am
Rosa says:
Tilly:
“I keep my mouth shut now, because Oxy taught me that that is what I have to do at this point in time.”
I am also doing that in my own situation , and it is the hardest thing to do on an ongoing basis.
Sitting idle while the psychopaths run the show SUCKS!
It’s like letting a monkey loose in your house and just sitting there while it trashes everything in sight.
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Tuesday, 14 July 2009 @ 7:44am
ninalinda says:
All I can do is cry…. I read these stories and totally can relate. I’ve lost my 3 children and hurt so badly. It is so painful. There is no way to explain or compare. It is total despair. Hope is my enemy. I’ve hoped and hoped only to be let down time after time. There are times where I truly think I’m going to go crazy! Like I’m just on the verge b/c I can’t handle the pain and injustice. I’ve learned that you can’t beat them. YOU WILL NOT WIN!! THEY ALWAYS WIN!! So therefore, even though I am away and have no communication with my ex, he still controls my life!
It’s been 4 years almost 5 my kids were 11, 14 & 17. they are now 16, 19, & 22. He created little mini me’s. They are just as bad as their father if not worse. Yesterday, I decided that they are dead. I had kids at one time but they died in a plain crash w/ their father. I have mourned for almost 5 years and I KNOW THE PAIN WILL NEVER GO AWAY, but I have to move on. It is so debilitating and hopeless. It is crushing and devastating. It is truly unbearable. But there is nothing that can be done. NO HOPE. NO SOLUTION. I just have to accept it.
To me this is like being raped repeated over and over again. Day after day. knowing that its gonna happen again. It’s gonna continue forever and nothing can be done to stop it. You just have to lay down and take it. over and over again. But what is even more horrifying is that people all around know that this is happening and continue to allow it. It’s like they are sitting an watching the rape going one. Every day they see it and do nothing about it. Everyday they know that it is happening and in their minds it’s ok. That is the way it should be. There’s nothing wrong with that. HOW DOES THIS HAPPEN???? Somebody please tell me!!! HOW DOES THIS HAPPEN?
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Tuesday, 14 July 2009 @ 7:55am
ThornBud says:
Dear Ninalinda, i feel ur pain and ur post made me cry, i feel like holding ur hand now and lay ur head on my lap
Do not give up, there is always some hope for (maybe) lost children. Maybe not all of them are the same, and let us keep a faith and hope that at least one of them will wake up one day, but NOT NOW at the moment. He has done his job, and all u can do now is to WAIT untill they grow up and have own children.
I personally experienced similar situation, together with my recent husband. He devorced from his N/P wife, boys were 11 and 15. He could not do anything to win dirty battles with her, but he kept trying, year after year, day after day, crying, hoping, trying…
It took us 20 years…baby steps, one step forward, 10 steps backward, but we kept trying.
In the mean time we got a daughter, and i taught her to love her brothers UNTIL they prove that love is not deserved.
Today, after 20 years, boys are having own families, they ran away from evil mother, and today they are having own children, they love each other and every day situation becomes better and we are happy that we did not give up.
I wish ur story ends the same way. Just wanted to tell u that IT IS POSIBLE, not all hope has gone!
Blessings!
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Tuesday, 14 July 2009 @ 8:59am
ninalinda says:
THANK YOU
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Tuesday, 14 July 2009 @ 9:17am
blueskies says:
Breckgirl, that link is really helpful reading.:)x I found this subsequent one really usful too:)x
http://counsellingresource.com.....art-2.html
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Tuesday, 14 July 2009 @ 9:35am
runningaway says:
I am also holding your hand and walkingwith you. I understand the horrible pain you’re feeling. I think it’s the powerlessness that makes things so hard.
My mother is a S. I’m her life-long target. She’s so good that she’s been able to get my sister (who is one of my closest friends) to believe that I’m abusing my mom. At least she knows Mom is crazy, but she thinks I am to blame for the horrible things she does because I “egg her on.”
I’m in my own crisis and am confronted with ditching Mom entirely (the healthiest thing) or staying involved so my 2 siblings aren’t stuck w an aging, going blind nut job. I’d feel so guilty leaving them to shoulder everything. And I don’t think leaving would reallyhelp me anybecause, like the evil husband who’s stolen the kids, I’d still be in her radar via my siblings – sympathetic sister especially.
Just try to hang in there and take it one day at a time. Your kids will eventually come back. I believe this because there’s nothing like having your own children to help you see the screwed up logic of a SP parent.
My brother told me that Mom once tried to strangle him, but he was being a jerk so he deserved it. I asked him why he didn’t stranglehis own teenagers and the lights came on.
So there is hope.
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Tuesday, 14 July 2009 @ 9:43am
ninalinda says:
I’M AFRAID OF HOPE BUT THANK YOU
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Tuesday, 14 July 2009 @ 9:49am
shabbychic says:
ninalinda… Your post resonates with me, my daughter lives 3000 miles away, and although she moved willingly (to get married) and we still talk, I miss her so much… I am in intense pain… but I still get to see her maybe once a year or every other year, and I talk to her on the phone a lot, so I can’t imagine the pain you and others feel at this loss, or what others go through when their child passes away. Your post saying you have to go through the pain everyday, over and over, it is so sad. I am holding you in my heart, you are in my prayers, I wish I could offer some kind of relief.
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Tuesday, 14 July 2009 @ 10:22am
Tood says:
ninalinda,
Your pain is heartwrenching, and we feel for you. Many of us have been exactly where you are. It’s perfectly OK to express your pain, let the tears flow, and scream it out to the heavens. All I ever wanted in life was a “normal” happy family, and the P experience took it all away. For quite some time, I lost everything that meant anything to me. All I had was a job and a roof over my head. I learned to be grateful for that. Some P victims aren’t even left with that much.
And believe me, I did quite a bit of crying, screaming, fist-shaking toward the sky, and wondering why. When the P takes your children, it is like rape–many here have likened it to soul rape. And the system, the authorities, often make it worse by blaming the victim and coddling the perpetrator. It is cruel. It is unfair. It is wrong.
No matter how bad it gets, hold onto the sure knowledge that you can survive it. Although right now it might not seem possible, know that even if you are totally alone in your struggle, this horrible experience can be turned into a gift. Your emotions and your heart are your strengths. You have a soul. You have the capacity to love.
Use this time without your children in your life to work on yourself. Read, think, study. Write. Get a counselor. Get stronger. Accept the reality in which you are living, and use whatever mental tricks you must (the plane crash scenario, etc.) to survive in the short term.
If you find that you are able to keep a small, secret nugget of hope in your heart, I would urge you to do so. I totally understand what you mean when you say “hope is my enemy.” I’ve been there. I could see nothing good on the horizon, no reason at all to keep going, but I kept going nonetheless, and today I can’t tell you how glad I am that I kept putting one foot in front of the other.
(If you are a religious or spiritual person, this can be your saving strength. A prayer in your heart–that no one on earth but you knows about–can sustain you through anything. I know this for a fact.)
Heal yourself. Tell yourself “I am going to make myself strong and capable, so that I will be able to help my children when the time comes.”
It may be that you will be able to reunite with your children someday, even if it doesn’t seem so now. As ThornBud says, baby steps. You have friends and helpers here who understand.
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Tuesday, 14 July 2009 @ 10:31am
ninalinda says:
Thank you. I’ve been to couselors in the beginning but haven’t gone in a while. I have an appt tomorrow for one. I need help.
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Tuesday, 14 July 2009 @ 10:32am
gogettergirl says:
What do you do when the pain you feel just doesn’t stop? I fell in love with the coldest, meanest man that ever lived. He raped me, he lied to me, he lied to his friends about me, and then disposed of me like I was a piece of trash.
He wouldn’t, no matter how hard I tried, recognize me as a human being with feelings and needs. He absolutely wouldn’t acknowledge me as a person and therefore neither would his friends. He hurt me so bad. I can’t get over it. I never know anybody so cold.
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Tuesday, 14 July 2009 @ 11:34am
OxDrover says:
Dear ninalinda,
I can so relate to your pain, and also to your solution. My P-son (my youngest of two) was lost to me by the time he started his acting out about age 15—he has been in prison most of the time since then, his last crime was murder.
Many years I held out hope (almost 20 years) that he would get out of prison and reform. But it was TOXIC HOPE, MALIGNANT HOPE that was like a cancer inside me.
I finally came to the conclusion that the child I loved was DEAD and the MAN who had his “organs” was NOT HIM. That man was a stranger, not my son. I even held a private memorial service for my dead son, and “buried” him. I got rid of all the photographs of him past the age of about 10 or 11, and as far as I am concerned that is when he “died” to me.
The pain was tremendous, and I grieved just as if I had physically buried my 11 year old son, but now, two years out, I am free of the pain of the loss.
Topday is the 5th anniversary of when my husband burned to death in a small plane crash here at our airport/farm, and I spent 4 of those years in the throes of PTSD because I was here at the time, and saw and witnessed the entire thing, but I am NOT having a melt down today, I am NOT still grieving, but am ACCEPTING of the loss of my beloved husband, and also the loss of my beloved CHILD. they are gone, but i can remember the good times with them, smile about the funny things we did together and have happy memories and not bad memories.
It has been a long difficult and painful journey to get to this place but I have done my best–sometimes that was one step forweard and two steps back, but over all it has been in a forward progression out of teh abyss of pain and fire.
No matter how bad it gets, or how hopeless we feel it is, we need to continue on the journey, THERE IS LIGHT AT THE END OF THE TUNNEL.
My faith in my view of God has actually been strengthened and it has helped me to realize that “God’s time” and “our time” are not the same, and that positive things can come out of anything, and there are lessons to be learned in even these painful experiences.
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Tuesday, 14 July 2009 @ 12:12pm
housie says:
OXDROVER:
Job’s experience and your’s seem parallel in many ways. There are not words to convey to you any comfort, but we know One who has ALL Comfort -The God Of All Comfort. In the midst of your life of sorrow and pain, joy and light, you are able to comfort others. I can’t wait to meet you in heaven. When we know we are not alone in a pain that many others may not understand nor have felt to the degree that we have been allowed to, there is a sense of knowing God hasn’t somehow singled us out to suffer. I do believe the enemy of my soul has been after me since I was choked by my dad at 2 months old when he yanked me out of my bassinet and shook me for crying. My life has been seared by trauma after trauma, for as long as I can remember. I just read this morning that Bullies seek the weak ones to intimidate, and use power and control.
My faith has also been strengthened, and I know what surrender means in a way I never would have if these things had not happened. There is an inner something I cannot identify regarding life and the people in it that is as gift – a 6th sense. I don’t talk about it often, as it is holy and sacred. It is as nearness to my Creator.
OXDROVER, be encouraged that as you give to others from the bounty of your experiences, so too, will you be given the gifts that are eternal. Hugs, Housie
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Tuesday, 14 July 2009 @ 2:01pm
housie says:
Drop the “a” in “It is a nearness to my Creator.” I’m still working on perfectionism, but not today!!!
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Tuesday, 14 July 2009 @ 2:04pm
Donna Andersen says:
Gogettergirl,
We’ve all been where you are. A Lovefraud reader once offered this advice: “Don’t take it personally.”
A sociopath is not capable of feeling any emotional connection to another human being. A sociopath is not capable of thinking of anyone other than himself (herself). Nothing you could have done, nothing you could have tried, would have made a difference. They are what they are, and you were targeted – probably because of your good qualities.
Welcome to Lovefraud. There are many articles in the archives that may help you. Please feel free to vent. We all understand.
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Tuesday, 14 July 2009 @ 2:48pm
Morgan says:
Hello, Everyone!
Well the pain can end!! On Sunday, my psychopathic ex-boyfriend called me. Strangely, this was the anniversary date of meeting a psychopath who is now spending the rest of his life in prison. (Life really means life in this case.)
So, the the P left a message. He referred to me with an affectionate name reserved for only my dearest girlfriends. Then he went on to say he hadn’t seen me in such a long time…he was concerned about me. He let me know the phone call didn’t mean he was flirting with me. He was just so very worried. He wanted me to call him to let him know I was okay.
Well, several months ago when he saw me in a pink cast and on crutches, he wasn’t too concerned. A couple of days later when it snowed and there was ice on the ground he didn’t care to call to see if I needed anything. I spent 2 months on crutches and in a wheelchair. The only places I went were work and an exercise facility to continue with my upper body workout. Being diabetic I had to continue with my exercise to manage my disease and also help with the stress!!
I was devastated at this injury. Being diabetic, I was concerned I’d need an operation–which had a 6 month recovery period. I washed clothes by crawling on my hands and knees and throwing my clothes until they ended up near the washing machine. I couldn’t even give my dog water. I couldn’t go to the grocery store because I couldn’t carry anything. I did have a son a friends who helped get me through this period. (Now I am walking again and grateful for being able to move in an upright position!!!)
So, what about the phone call!? Well, when I saw the number I had to read it twice. I expected him to call me back. But was still shocked when I saw his number.
I haven’t returned his call. I don’t plan on it. I have too much respect for myself to ever be involved with him again. When I see him at our exercise facility I plan on saying, “Oh, yes. You did call, didn’t you? Well…I’ve just been so busy….” Then I’ll walk away.
He has no power over me. I’ve learned valuable lessons from my experience with him.
Now…I’m living my own life. And quite happy with me!!!
Morgan
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Tuesday, 14 July 2009 @ 3:23pm
OxDrover says:
Dear Housie,
Your post made me cry, not bad tears, though, but “sweet” ones. Thank you so much, I too look foreard to meeting many people in the afterlife, as well as being P-FREE there as well.
When I read Dr. Viktor Frankl’s book, “Man’s Search for Meaning” after his total Job-like losses of EVERYTHING except his very soul, I realized that my own losses paled in comparison too the losses experienced by others. My losses were painful, but I still retain so many blessings that I am still “among the blessed” of this world.
Each day, I try to look around me, and to thank God that He has provided so much bounty for me, and ultimately safety. I believe and am comforted by the phrase in the Bible that “all things work together for good to those that Love the Lord!”
Sometimes it was difficult for me to see the truth in that, because as I looked at the current situation, it only appeared to be a series of losses. However, many many times, if that “loss” had not occured, I can NOW see that I would still be in the clutches of the psychopaths. So, though, at the TIME it occured, that loss of my relationship with the P-son, or my psychopathic-by-proxy egg donor, I was really being freed from the EVIL emotional bonds to these EVIL people.
I read the Bible stories now with a new insight that I did not have before, and I can see that there was a lesson to be learned for many of the old prophets and people. Lot, for example, was told to leave the city in which he lived and to go out into the wilderness with essentially nothing but what he had on his back, so for him that must have felt like a “loss” to have to leave a comfortable city and go into the winderness where he had nothing but a cave to dwell in, but by going into the wilderness, he escaped the destruction of the city. His loss of his home actually preserved his life.
My own loss of my home preserved my own life when I fled my house for safety. I also realized that my “house” is just that, a THING for my comfort, but I am still ME without it, and I was kept safe by giving up what was so prescious to me. If I had stayed here as I was determined to do to “defend” it I am sure I would have been killed. So sometimes when dealing with psychopaths, it is better wisdom to get the heck out of Dodge and not depend on ourselves, but to follow the wisdom within us, the voice of God. too many times I have drowned out that small voice of wisdom and made the decision to depend on my ownself when I would have been much better off to listen to that still small voice in my soul.
I think if we are DETERMINEd to go our own way, God won’t shout over our own voices and will allow us to “make our own beds.” I have decided that “lying in” the beds I made of my own will was not very comfortable. So now I am trying to listen to the wisdom and good sense, common sense actually, that tells me I am doing something that is not for my or others best interest.
Thank you again, Housie, your words mean a great deal more to me than you can even begin to know. (((hugs)))) and God bless us all here at LF.
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Tuesday, 14 July 2009 @ 3:29pm
gogettergirl says:
ninalinda,
My father took us girls away from my mother when we were just little kids and never let us see her again too. After many years, she gave up. DON’T let that happen to you. Don’t let him define who you are. You are a kind and gentle person and your warm heart is what attracted him to you in the first place. Don’t let him destroy that. We all love you here and other people see your kindness.
Donna Anderson: Thank you for your kind words. You’ve helped me today and I’m ok now. God Speed.
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Tuesday, 14 July 2009 @ 3:54pm
Kattt says:
I have been a subscriber of Lovefraud for a couple of years now but have never posted anything until now.
The subject of sociopaths turning the children against you opened a floodgate in me.
During my divorce from my toxic, sociopathic ex, he did a terrific smear campaign on our two boys, ages 18 and 20. My two children from a previous marriage weren’t able to be manipulated. He forced our sons lie to a Judge when I pressed domestic abuse charges on him and even though there was not one shred of evidence against me and tons against him (7 witnesses, only 2 were allowed to speak), the Judge threw me out of my own home for a year without any of my belongings. Didn’t charge me with anything, just said I couldn’t go home. I appealed it and WON, but by then the damage had been done. I developed PTSD, lost 30 lbs, vomited a lot and had to deal with the humilation of people assuming I had done something wrong because the Judge made ME leave. Actually, he didn’t even listen to the case, he just made a quick decision on a day that he was in a bad mood and that’s why I won the appeal. He had no legal right to make me leave. Because he had a bad day, I now had a bad life. The appeal cost me $5,000 (the state doesn’t reimburse you even when you win). I had just given my lawyer every cent I could beg, borrow or steal to start the divorce. I was homeless in the middle of the winter in Iowa and only had a part-time job.
He wouldn’t allow the boys to talk to me. (he had ways to make their lives miserable). My mother died during this and my lawyer asked for my black dress to wear to her funeral. He wouldn’t even let me have that. He had my 2 dogs, cat and parrot also. He let the house go into foreclosure and when I said I would make the payments if he left, he did but I found the house almost uninhabitable and my animals were starving. He was charged with animal neglect and given a $50 fine. I had him posted on animal-abuse.com if anyone wants to see pictures. ( need to punish is strong I think)
He had found another unsuspecting victim (girlfriend with $) so HE had a place to go and tried to lose our home on purpose so I would truly have nothing.
After no contact with my sons for almost 3 years, they started calling me. Apparently after getting his hooks deep enough into the new girlfriend, he didn’t need them any longer and basically discarded them like used Kleenex. Now we are all trying to heal and deal with the pain. He, on the other hand, is living the good life pretending butter wouldn’t melt in his mouth. The boys are angry at his hipocrisy and need counseling, but neither has insurance. I feel like my life is over sometimes, but I refuse to let him win. All I can do is hope he is punished by God, karma or whatever.
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Tuesday, 14 July 2009 @ 4:36pm
Easy says:
Kattt
They have no goodlife! Only a phesaud(sp) on the outside! A fake appearence of a life. Inside they are hollow, seithing in worthlessness! Without the ability to Love ,feel It ,they are empty! You feel so hurt because you take it personal! He will do this to each and every one he comes close to! Women men ,Children , it doesn’t matter who !!!!! It is what they do!
The Shark is not evil, it was born to eat and make baby sharks.
The Psycopath Is Evil because They get pleasure from our pain.
Trust that this is for a purpose! That What you and your sons gain will be more than what you lost! God speed
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Tuesday, 14 July 2009 @ 4:57pm
Tilly says:
Ninalinda:
“Yesterday, I decided that they are dead. I had kids at one time but they died in a plain crash w/ their father”.
I never believe that their father is dead because I need to stay alert to the dangerous murderous person he is. And I am finally doing what I can in relation to that, for me ( and inadvertently others),to stay safe.
I tried doing what you have done with your kids re: the plane crash, but it makes it worse for me. Because my heart knows they are alive. However it is early days and i know i have a lot of anger to release towards myself and my daughter for not realising sooner. You know, for being such a mug. And with my son, I still have a lot of guilt (a totally wasted emotion because I am not guilty… but I still feel it). And it is a roller coaster ride. When I look at his photo, no matter what age all I see is my little boy.
However, taking down the photos of my daughter definitely helped (all of them). And changing my will definitely helped.
So I have a long way to go. What i am saying is: When they have physically died it is easier to grieve. You never recover, but you can fully grieve. When they are alive, there is an area of confusion for a long time. It is harder to deal with in my opinion. Just as devastating, but harder to grieve because of the conflicting paradox.
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Tuesday, 14 July 2009 @ 5:43pm
kate09 says:
OxDrover,
When I read your post is reminded me of myself so much. The S in my life I am married 2. We have been 2gether 16 years and have 3 children. We had a nice home in a nice area and I 2 had to leave because of violence. He still blamed me for leaving.. My children went from living in a big home 2 a small apartment.. I felt guilty like I was taking away a better life for them but my children did not care. I always wanted them 2 learn that none of those things matter.. It is the love inside the home that is valuable.. I know that by the grace of God I am still here 2day. The S was not able 2 end my life.
I do believe that God does allow us to sleep in the beds we make. I feel like I have lost so much in my life..that I have “lost out” on having a true love in my life.. 16 years loving an S is just so hard. I watched him go from being a teen S to a full blown adult S. I at times feel like a failure. I kept thinking that I could make him realize how he hurt us, but it always comes back 2 me being the one at fault.. For a long time I believed that. God has helped me see that I am worthy of so much more. But I have 2 want that happeness and if it means giving upva certain life style I cld have stating with the S then I can give those things up.. The S knows this and he uses it against me.. He tells me things like “do u realize I pay for EVERYTHING!” The last time he said that I said ” sadly that is all u know how 2 do or want 2 give of yourself”. I pray daily for God 2 help me be strong and realize as hard as it is that the entire 16 year relationship has been just a fantasy for me.. Just me sugar coating all the red flags that God placed in my path away from him. Hard to except but even with that God gave me grace by blessing me with 3 beautiful children. That has been the best REAL part of my life. There love is real and true. I love the movie Hope Floats..my S also cheated on me like The woman in the movie.. He comes 2 her and says he wants 2 be with this other women and she says ” you 2 deserve eachother. You were lucky 2 have me. But you know what I think I already got the best part of you and she is standing out there waiting on me (refering 2 her daughter) and what’s left over just doesn’t look so good to me anymore.” How true that is.. Even if I lost everything tmrww. I wld still have my children & their love. He will never have that love because he can’t deal with it or want it.. It’s 2 much responsibility 2 let someone in 2 ur heart complty.. I pray that guides me in how 2 raise them alone and give them a stable life..
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Tuesday, 14 July 2009 @ 6:03pm
OxDrover says:
Dear Kate,
Putting the important things first and the material things last is sometimes hard to do….as we al lneed a minimal amount at least of material things…but I clung to the material “security” of my home, not wanting to let my P-son and his henchmen drive me out….I can’t imagine how you dealt with that EVIL judge’s decision all the while so many other things were going on.
That your home was trashed deliberately and let go into foreclosure is not unexpected when dealing with a psychopath! I hope there is a “warm spot in hades” for these judges that do not get it about what psychopaths are and turn over children to them. Dr. Amy Castillo (there is a thread here on LF about her) warned her judge that her husband was going to kill her children if he was given unspervised visits and on the first visit with them, HE KILLED THEM. I think that judge should be HUNG, DRAWN and QUARTERED! (can you tell that judges doing such things makes me ANGRY!?)
I am so sorry that you went through such trauma and then more trauma on top of it. God bless and keep you! Hang around LF and heal with the rest of us, this is a wonderful community! (((hugs))))
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Tuesday, 14 July 2009 @ 6:46pm
Kattt says:
Thank you all for your kind thoughts and it does help to feel validated.
Kattt
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Tuesday, 14 July 2009 @ 7:22pm
banana says:
OxDrover…
just wanted to drop you a line. I went into my marriage to a P/S as a Christian, but I ignored the red flags. I am learning how to forgive myself for not hearing that voice.
I am lucky that I don’t believe my P/S gets joy out of what he does, but everything he does is for him, he is a shell, I watch how he changed the day he left me and now fits OW’s taste…he was the same with me, went to church and seemed to enjoy it, talked about God, even roped in christians at work. now he’s totally different.
yes it is comforting to know he doesn’t love this new girl either and he’ll do the same to her.
But now my worry is my son. P/S will fight tooth and nail as long as I want our son. I know you can bargain with a P/S, but I haven’t got him totally figured out yet. I didn’t even know he was a P/S until late May 09.
But I have figured out his bark is much worse than his bite..he has always barked and it has worked, but he’s never had to bite.
Yesterday I told him “no” for the first time and nothing happened.
But I so fear S/P will turn my year old son against me.
All I ask right now is for you faithful ones her on LF is prayer for the Lord to watch over court on thursday.
And that I grow in faith and let the Lord banish my fears.
Banana
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Tuesday, 14 July 2009 @ 8:11pm
OxDrover says:
Dear Banana,
“The prayer of the righteous availeth much” and I know that prayer helped me to accept what IS for today—and to gain in patience and to accept the promise in the Bible that “all tings work together for good to those that love the Lord.” We don’t always see how this is so, but keep your faith, and pray and take care of yourself and your son. Hopefully, your X will get bored with your child before the boy gets big enough to remember him.
Liane Leedom M. D. has a blog and site for “co parenting” with the toxic ones, you might join her there and get information that will help and comfort you.
Play your cards close to your chest and don’t ‘react” to whatever your X pulls. Don’t antagonize him, but at the same time, don’t give in either is my advice. At some point if he doesn’t pay child support it might be possible to get him to sign over your child in exchange for you not pressing for child support.
Toxic ones (ps or not) can pretend to be religious and holy and good, but they are wearing masks—from the letter yours wrote, he sounds like that type of person. Always trying to find someone else to blame for his own failures and bad behavior.
Keep your faith and be glad that you are away from him, it can only be BETTER away from a man like him. (((hugs))) and God bless.
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Tuesday, 14 July 2009 @ 9:44pm
shabbychic says:
Hi Kattt, well, I guess life isn’t over til it’s over, and you’re still here and you’ve got your boys! I am so glad you wrote that you refuse to let him win, so don’t let him win what’s inside of YOU!!!! I don’t know too much of your personal story but it sounds like you have already been through a lot and you are still standing. I’m glad you are hanging in there with the rest of us. I hope you keep writing. I will be thinking of you.
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Wednesday, 15 July 2009 @ 12:36am
Tilly says:
In Melbourne in Victoria, they have a judge whose nickname is “santa clause.” He is a psychopath who can be bought with money or “favours” to give you whatever sentence you want. I can’t be specific here and tell you what some of them were, or it will identify me. Such is the nature of staying safe.
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Wednesday, 15 July 2009 @ 12:51am
Escapee says:
Some days I wonder if it will EVER go away.
I still live with the financial consequences as a reminder. I have been so weakened by the whole sorry saga I have little enthusiam for anything. I try to engage in activities – social etc. but some days, it just doesn’t happen. I never had health problems before the S and they started about a year down the line with him.
I didn’t know it was possible to HATE a person this much.
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Wednesday, 15 July 2009 @ 10:18am
learnthelesson says:
Dear Morgan,
You must be so very proud of yourself! Way to go for not calling him back and being committed to NO CONTACT. In fact, if you see him at the gym you do have the option of totally ignoring him or just brushing him off not even mentioning the call.. “oh, hey, gotta run… etc..
I cant imagine what you endured physically. You are one strong woman ! Take care of yourself and your health. The less stress the better!!! You DO NOT NEED HIM causing continued chaos and pain in your life… you are perfectly fine without him and can handle anything that comes your way!
Towanda!!! STAY STRONG! YOU DID IT!!!!
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Wednesday, 15 July 2009 @ 12:36pm
OxDrover says:
Dear Escapee,
You are right, I did not believe it was possible to HATE SOMEONE so much, and when I realized that I hated my egg donor with a white-hot rage it hit me in the face like a bucket of coals—I am past that now, and I finally realized that hating them takes ENERGY as well, and I don’t want to give them that much of my energy and thinking. THEY DON’T EVEN DESERVE MY HATE! I am, as one poster here recently said, entering the NIRVANA OF INDIFFERENCE. (CRS can’t remember who said it) I think that 3-word phrase is the way to go, it takes time and it takes work, but it is sure worth it. When we can actually be indifferent to the point we wouldn’t cross the street to pith on them if they were on fire. That we just don’t CARE.
We accept them for the EVIL BEING that they are, acknowledge what they did to us IN THE PAST, and don’t let that PAST BE OUR PRESENT. We can’t change the past, our decisions or their actions in the past, but we can sure take CONTROL OF TODAY and our decisions and our lives TODAY.
Just liike if I had been bitten by a cobra in the past, and maybe even lost a foot because of that toxic bite, I still have a missing foot, but I don’t have to spend every minute of every day HATING COBRAS, or thinking about them when I pick up my crutches or put on my special appliance so I can walk.
I had plenty of REASON to hate my egg donor, and I really DID HATE HER, she even looked at me and said “You really hate me don’tyou?” I realized at that moment, yes, I hated her enough to kill her without any regret at that moment. But—I am not a psychopath, and I will not let her “provoke” me inito doing something I will regret later, no matter how “justified” I feel I would be by doing it. And, hey, I still feel there are some folks so “evil” that they “juist deserve to be put out of the human race”—but that is for God to handle not me. My Bible tells me that “Vengence is mine, sayeth the Lord” and I figure I would rather have them face the personality that can meet them out what they TRULY deserve.
I will leave that vengence to God, and get the hate out of my heart, not for their benefit, but for MY BENEFIT.
Just stay on the road t6o healing, Escapee, it will get smoother and will have less pot holes and rocks the further along you go!!! (((HUGS)))) and my prayers for your healing and strength! Oxy
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Wednesday, 15 July 2009 @ 1:23pm
2MUCH2TAKE says:
Wow~ I feel for each and everyone of u. I have my daughter who is a successful, contributing member of society that lives only 20 minutes away! We have a healthy relationship. She is a nurse. She has however, endured sadness seeing how I have allowed people to treat me. I cannot imagine (truly) the pain you all must feel for the losses of your children.
To Kate09, What is a home if you are not happy in it? I have done that, only to move on to another S. So, you are evolving in that you are in a happy home.
My father is a drug addict P. Went to a state hosp. when I was 10. Turned some of my sibs against my mother. (Victim). I never turned cuz he scared the hell out of me with a gun once. They divorced and remarried. My sister is a P. She is a big bully. Way bigger than I am. She beat me from head to toe on Apr. 18. this year after her ex-husbands funeral, where they read 2 poems I wrote. I do not ever want to see her again, unfortunately my parents are flying here tonight to stay at her house. I am uncertain what to do. I know I don’t want to see her ever again. My Aunt just died and memorial is Friday. I feel like I need to be there to support my mother. She is truly a victim of a P all her life. I feel like I need to have a “guard”, with me but I am alone. I believe she would have beat me to death if my P partner would have not been there. In this instance he saved me from her. He was actually traumatized by what happened and he is from South Boston and has seen much ugliness. She gave no warning, we were not arguing, she just came over to where I was sitting and yanked my hair out, was just an animal. Slammed my legs in the door when I tried to leave. Huge bruises, all down to my feet. Couldn’t walk for weeks. Bumps on my head, etc. Punched her best friend in the face. Next day, I talked to her friend. She asked me “what the hell set her off?” There were only the 4 of us there and noone knows what did it. Coulda been that she was going to appear in court the following Thurs. for domestic violence charges against her boyfriend. She is nuts. I am 51 years old. I do not engage in physical violence. She never even called to apologize. I seriously feel as though I need to get “bear spray” or something in case she tries to do it again. ??????? She is dead to me in my heart but I feel like I still have to see her. How can she be dead if she is in front of me?
I have read for days on these blogs, what I have learned that has helped me is: Quiet the redundant bad thoughts and step into the pain. FEEL the pain. It helps to feel.
Last night I read on another blog and actually laughed!! The frying pan stuff. It felt soooo good to laugh. I so need that in my life again.
You people are so helpful. I feel as though I can see. Truthfully. I can see through the confusion. My head is not so clouded. Being calm, walking THROUGH the pain. It is a release. I pray to God that we ALL find open doors that lead us to evolution within ourselves and freedom. Peace be with all.
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Wednesday, 15 July 2009 @ 1:45pm
blueskies says:
2much2take.(big hug) That sounds horrific. My mother and sister are both violent bullies, but the physical attacks on me stopped when I left home at 16… they just continued knocking the crap out of each other for a bit.(of course not of that really happend if you asked them!)
When you say ’she just came over to where I was sitting and yanked my hair out, was just an animal.’ it sends shivers down my spine, both m+S display kind of rabid beast behaviour when they come up against anything. Even when we’ve been ‘getting on’ it has always been like walking on egg shells, you can FEEL the aggression/jealousy/anger prickling below the surface.
Then my sister left the country and things settled down ( well no stir ups and cresendos, just low-fi manipulation and daily crushing and undermining from my mother) when my sister snorted her business up her nose and returned it was right back to 24/ 7 hysterics, threats of suicide bitching triangles…drama, drama, drama. I have decided, on the back of what happend to me with the P/S, and the strength(Ha! I feel as weak as a kitten today) I have subsequently gained here to step out of it again, and for good.
I can also relate to your saying you can know see through all the confusion, I feel I can see clearer now. But it is hard, I feel like I have been dismantled and am in the process of rebuilding myself from scratch. I think someone made a butterfly transforming analogy and i keep that in mind.
In my very heart and soul I KNOW that this is one of the most important processes in my life i will go through and its long over due.
But phew, today I am exhausted.
I come here every day and I find the discussions, information and thank heavens sometimes, giggles, soul food:)xxx
I like your idea about bear spray! Hopefully I wont need it!x
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Wednesday, 15 July 2009 @ 2:15pm
OxDrover says:
Dear 2much,
I am not sure what the legalities of carrying pepper spray are in your state, but you actually might consider carrying it (in your hand) IF IT IS LEGAL. I would not go if I could not be protected. Your sister is an obvious overly dangerous person.
Next time she might actually do you some serious and irreversable injury, like a broken neck or a head injury.
I know that you may feel you need to support your mother, but at the same time, the things I have learned frm my own violent family is that I HAVE TO TAKE CAARE OF MY OWN SAFETY FIRST. If I am not safe, then I cannot help others.
This was a hard thing to do, I left my home and fled, knowing that my own mother was a target for the ps as well as me, however, she was also their DUPE, and still is, refuses to believe the truth, even though it has been well proven and documented that my P son had tried to have me killed (first) and I have no doubt she would have been next for him to inherit our property. She still sends him money. I have gone NO CONTACT with her as long as she insists on disbelieving the evidence and in enabling him.
I feel for you so much empathy, I know it is like being between a “rock and a hard place” or the “devil and the deep blue sea” My only advice is PROTECT YOURSELF FIRST. (((HUGS)))) and my prayers.
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Wednesday, 15 July 2009 @ 3:27pm
DJhere2 says:
Hello All ~ I haven’t written in a while, but I have been keeping up on the articles. Two months after my home had been burglarized by the S, the police decided to get a search warrant…the S had some firearms of mine that he wouldn’t give back, so the police took in the SWAT team, raided his home (he lived with his mommy) and found some of my stuff, the LCD TV that he was using, my laptop he was using, my digital camera he was using, the police didn’t find the firearms. The police arrested him only he got out 2 days later…the DA rejected the case. I was horrified! So, the police put extra patrol around my house…they were always around me…I work for a school, too. In the meantime, I had started dating someone, casually, because I was VERY cautious. He SEEMED nice at first…almost TOO nice…I KNEW something was up, but I just figured maybe I was just paranoid? WRONG! 4 weeks into dating, HE began to display RAGE one day…Boy Howdy, did I run like HELL! Then, he wouldn’t leave me alone, so now I had TWO of them to worry about! I FINALLY shook off the second one and THEN found out later that he’s a REGISTERED SEX OFFENDER – very violent offenses, too!!! Ok, REALLY! Thank GOD I got away! Well, the first S has been arrested AGAIN, you guessed it! Felon with a loaded, stolen firearms…MINE! He’s been in jail for over a month…his sentencing date is Aug. 4th. And, yeah, you guessed correctly again! He’s been calling me from jail, violating the restraining order. I now keep my land line unplugged and tell everyone else to call me on my cell. I don’t want to change my number yet, in case any authorities need to get in touch with me…plus, I’m filing reports every time he violates the restraining order. And, yes, he’s even WRITTEN me a letter from jail! I don’t respond…I’ve learned from all of you NO CONTACT!
I think the reason we feel this pain so deeply is because we also feel THEIR pain as well or the pain they SHOULD be feeling, like normal people, since they can’t feel it themselves, so our pain is doubled…we’re in pain over what they did to us, and in pain because THEY aren’t feeling it, too! Does that make sense? The only resolution I have is how very sad for them to not feel ANYTHING…not even happiness…to just be cold and empty for the rest of their lives. Imagine going through life like that!
Lessons learned…background checks a MUST, but for now, I’m just being by myself, thank you very much!
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Thursday, 16 July 2009 @ 1:18am
Tilly says:
Dear2much,
I hope you read this in time.
Definitely DON”T go to the memorial for your Aunt, to support your mother. You will be attacked again for sure. Tell your mother you are too sick to go…which is the truth, because she is enough to make anyone sick. If your mother has been with ps all her life. She will accept it. Everything you say to your sisters “friend” will get back to her. You can count on it. Say nothing about her your sister to her. Ever.
Start NC with this dangerous psychopath who has it in for you. She was probably jealous of the 2 poems, or that you stole her thunder somehow, whatever it was, all you need to know is that she has it in for you and to stay alive you must stay away…no matter what.
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Thursday, 16 July 2009 @ 1:24am
endthepain says:
Found this quote…..
wanted to share it…..
Forgiveness does not always lead to a healed relationship. Some people are not capable of love, and it might be wise to let them go along with your anger. Wish them well, and let them go their way.
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Thursday, 16 July 2009 @ 11:51pm
twicebaked2009 says:
How did I make the same mistake twice? How did I marry another one when no one would want to endure the pain of a S/N/P again? I thought the pain was over. I thought I had the family and father for my kids that I always wanted. He was the love of my life. He as my soulmate. I was a fool and I have been TWICE BAKED. That’s right. Twice. And you know what goes into twice baked potatoes? Potatoes that are….mashed up, stirred up….heavy…altered from their original state. They’ve been cooked, chopped up, mashed, drowned, stirred, prodded, and eventually….they are eaten. I have been eaten alive, really.
I feel so stupid. I am hurt. I am grieving. I am 51 yrs old. I still have an elementary aged kid. I wanted this man’s baby so badly…I loved him so much and thought God and my dead father had dropped him from the clouds. Then the lies started….lie upon lie upon lie. First about bills. Then about other things. The man could not tell the truth. I kept saying, “What’s the point in lying? I’m not your mother. I’m not going to send you to your room. Just tell the truth so we can be on the same page and deal with this.” Yeah, right.
I feel guilty about the harm I have caused my amazing family…my loved ones that have been there for me not once…but twice….remember, I was twice baked…and so was my elderly mother, my sister and brother and their families. It’s like I went out and bought a blow torch and ignited everything all of us had worked so hard for, and the pain and anguish that I feel are enormous. Sometimes I just want to give up. I wish I could time travel and undo all the harm that has been done. Wishing does not make it so.
To make matters worse, the pain doesn’t stop b/c he tells me that he will make things right…that taking care of me and our son is his only goal in life….he has NOT worked in almost 2 yrs now….that he will repay everyone….that all the rumors that he had drug problems, embezzled money from his last employer…that he had an affair with a girl in his office…that he loved me and meant no harm…..they were all lies. Listen to me, girls….guys…whoever is reading this….whoever is reading this and your head is swimming with confusion, dispair, disappointment…if it looks like a duck…acts like a duck…quacks like a duck….you know the rest of the story. Do yourself a favor and run away NOW. If it is someone you were madly in love with, and you have been devastated (it’s been over two years for me and I am still reeling) and shocked by the lie that they are….seem to be….are…..seem to be….are seem to be…..(do you get my drift)…..this broken record will not change. It will continue to play the same thing over and over and over again. Get away now. I hardly have the strength to put one leg in front of the other…and I was a very, very, very strong woman before reality set in….and I have lost everything except my kids….and I just want to live a long life and have some good years with them and their kids…and be a grandmother….and be me again…and well….it’s almost two am…and I made it through another day….so I may make it afterall.
I’m tired. I’m going to bed….and I hope BOTH of my S go to @##$% and are triple baked. Good night. Know you are loved…forgiven…and it is imperative to keep moving forward…even if you are only taking baby steps. I love you all.
I recently had a wonderful friend come into life. She is a writer, like myself. She has had the same sick relationships that I have had. She has done many things that have healed the healing process. I still grieve. She reminds me that grieving is vital. Say goodbye to all that junk…because you are about to give birth to a new you. It’s true. If I set boundaries, I will not have to listen to his fairytales…and I will stay on this road to recovery…and through this pain, I will eventually give birth to a new me. This is a great site. Thank you for helpiing us.
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Saturday, 18 July 2009 @ 12:43am
Escapee says:
Twicebaked
So sorry to hear your regrets and the trail of misery these relationships have left in their wake. As you know, you are not alone – many of us (myself included) are trying to put ourselves back together again in the aftermath of these toxic sub-humans.
I am trying to move on from my horrible experience of one of these ‘aliens’ that blight our world. The damage has been horrendous – I too look back and see a strong lady who was in control of her life and now wonder where she went.
You didn’t buy the ‘blow-torch’ – you trusted and loved and it was YOU and your family that got ‘torched’ by this evil man. I am sick to death of beating myself up about being ‘naive’ and loyal to the point of stupidity. I gave over everything to the toxic S that I was involved with – he DEMANDED it – and made sure he bled me dry of everything – everyone around me was affected. But, over time, (and it has taken TIME), I am coming to realise he couldn’t take away the ‘essence’ of me – despite his best efforts. He wanted to destroy everything good and loving in my life – not enhance and share in it. Well he hasn’t. They love winning and I won’t let him win this one – he doesn’t have the ‘tools’ to win this one because I am coming from a place of love in kindness in the way I relate to those around me – the people who make up my life – my two wonderful children, good family and friends – he wouldn’t know where to begin. I hold on to this thought to keep me strong – his way of living is all about greed, gain, self-gratification, putting himself first – even or especially when it means belittling and conning others – this is what makes him feel empowered – what a very sad and toxic way to live.
We’re better than that. We have a knowledge that they will never have – they will live with the consequences of their behaviour – I have to believe in ‘what goes around comes around’ – that keeps me strong too. The only thing I pray for is INDIFFERENCE – that’s when I’ll know I’m healed.
All love to you and keep posting for strength.
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Saturday, 18 July 2009 @ 7:07am
Escapee says:
Blueskies
Have just been catching up with LF this morning (I’m on UK time). Each of your posts sounds stronger. The first post I ever read of yours sounded so pained and desparate (if you don’t mind my saying – we’ve all been there, so I know you won’t). I am so pleased to hear the hope that is conveyed in your writing and messages of support to others. You also sound as if you are ’supporting’ yourself now – the most important part on the road to ‘healing’ and the cessation of the pain suffered in the aftermath of any realtionship with an S/P/N (I love the ‘Narciopath’ tag that I think Steve coined in one of his threads – it definitely works for me!).
Keep going girl – you give me hope and strength – thanks.
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Saturday, 18 July 2009 @ 7:14am
blueskies says:
Awww Thanks luv:)x I do feel stronger every day and calmer and more accepting of myself:) I feel like every day I am making (painful) positive adjustments in my thinking.
I think I said before – when I first came here, I had been completely dismantled (I was a pile of mess on the floor) but I dont think I was put together right in the first place! (imagine a beautiful shiny car that is completely held together on the inside with bubble gum and sticky tape that has by some miracle managed to keep running for all these years!) so its gonna be a good thing in the end. I really believe that.
THANKS:)X what a lovely boost:)x
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Saturday, 18 July 2009 @ 7:46am
Escapee says:
It sounds to me like the ‘refurb’ of you is going well and I am very heartened.
You use the word ‘dismantled’ – well, they kind of describes how I have felt – also ‘crucified’ – by the ‘crucifying’ criticism that erodes your sense of self-worth and ability to have integrity in your own judgement.
Well, no more bubblegum and sticky tape for us! I am putting together a ‘toolkit’ – a bag of proper equipment to make the structure sound and solid. I think that that’s what we’re doing here – borrowing tools from each other to finally be able to do the job properly. Once completely, I intend to put a nice big solid suit of armour around my completed structure that only lets in light, pure oxygen and good people!
Maybe you can remind me of this when I have a ’step backwards’ day.
All love.
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Saturday, 18 July 2009 @ 7:58am
Escapee says:
sorry – typo – ‘THAT kind of describes….’
‘once complete’
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Saturday, 18 July 2009 @ 8:00am
blueskies says:
I will remind you , and you can remind me when we have the inevitable step backward days:)x
I love the borrowing tools analogy it fits perfectly with how I feel about what goes on here and LF.x
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Saturday, 18 July 2009 @ 8:10am
Tilly says:
blueskies:
I too noticed how fast your recovery is, its amazing. You have helped me a lot on your way. “Blueskies…nothing but blueskies”, I love that song.
I still have shocking nightmares of being murdered by the worst of my psychopaths EVERY night and I wake up yelling out. I think it is because of what i am going through aty present that it is all triggered again. I feel so isolated on my own in this.
There is nothing actually wrong with the word narcissiopath, but I think that there are already far too many words decscribing psychopaths. But then i also think there are far too many doors in the world don’t you? lol! they are all the same type of doors its just that some don’t open.
There is so much ignorance aound about the whole subject. It really is at kindergarten level, don’t you think?
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Saturday, 18 July 2009 @ 6:16pm
2MUCH2TAKE says:
Hi Peeps~ Welllll… Tilly, I didn’t get your bolg in time. My mother called and thankfully my animal sister did not attend my Aunts funeral. My mother understands that I can have NC with my sister. She said “she is just like her father “& really does validate me. I’m glad I was able to attend. ~ And, did you ever hit the nail on the head. The day after the assault when I talked to her friend, she went and told her EVERYTHING I said. I have had no more contact with her.
On another note, I DID get out and do something social. I floated the river with a girlfriend. We had a very peaceful, fun float although it didn’t last long enough for me!! That was Thurs. Fri I went to the memorial. So today I am resting and getting my house in order.
The analogy of being dismantled, you are now putting yourself back together! I had a friend whose car was held together with putty. She called her care he “putty buddy”. Maybe thats what you are to yourself now!! LOL
We are using tools from one another. What a gift from God this site is. I know without a doubt that I feel so much more confidence in myself because I realize that I am not the only person that has suffered from this abuse. I love the way Ox Drover gives us words of wisdom about vengence. I is SO true. And it helps me not to have rage and hate inside of me. And I truly FEEL more energy in other areas-like putting the energy towards getting my closet cleaned out instead of hating and raging. I am redirecting my energy in a positive way. And it feels so much better. I love you guys. And your wisdom, although I feel regret that any human has had to suffer this incredibly painful existence at all. It is discombobulation at its best. Spiritually, mentally, emotionally and physically. Towanda Peeps!! 22 (for short)
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Saturday, 18 July 2009 @ 7:26pm
2MUCH2TAKE says:
Whoops~ She called her car her “putty buddy”!
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Saturday, 18 July 2009 @ 7:27pm
OxDrover says:
Dear 2 much,
We have all had TOOOOO much! But at the same time I think that things do happen for a “reason” and that if we USE the challenges we have faced “what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger”—we have a finite amount of energy and we can use it for raging or we can use it for building ourselves and the positive use is better for us! I don’t always “practice what I preach” and I “preach a better sermon” than I live, but I am like everyone else on here, I AM WORKING ON IT!!!
I’m so glad that your “X-sister” didn’t show up (“X-brother” is what my other sons call my P-son as they “divorced” him) It makes it difficult to go to family functions when you may run into those people, and I have just decided that if my egg donor is going, or likely, I will just NOT go. But I make tht decision for ME, and for funerals or birthday parties etc. I just call them the day before or day after and say how much I would have liked to have been there, but….”just couldn’t make it” and it is better for me.
I even go to another town to shop or another day than I know my egg donor goes, and it makes sure I do not accidently run into her. (again)
My life now is essentially “stress” free since there is no one in my life to tell me how horrible I am. Being around people who love me rather than people who don’t is an amazing “upper.”
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Saturday, 18 July 2009 @ 8:13pm
learnthelesson says:
Endthepain -
“Forgiveness does not always lead to a healed relationship. Some people are not capable of love, and it might be wise to let them go along with your anger. Wish them well, and let them go their way”
What a beautiful quote you shared on Thursday….Its so true and when it is grasped with honesty and true understanding it is done with a much needed release and breath of fresh air… to begin living again and healing the relationship we have with ourselves…
Thank you!
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Saturday, 18 July 2009 @ 8:47pm
2MUCH2TAKE says:
Hi~ Good Lord, I just read “denial”. It actually made me want to rage at myself again. The behavoir is so predictable. This one is going to take some time to digest. I am so there.
OxDrover~I don’t expect that you are perfect at what you preach!! I know that knowledge and action can be multi-faceted. Hearing the wisdom that you have accumulated gives me food for thought. As I believe that we will all be “evolving” in all of this new knowledge until we die. It is like the “refiners fire”. Hopefully our fires will never go out!! They may get dim, flicker or even smolder at times, during this process, but my hope and prayer is that the fire for health and solitute never gets stomped out again by a person that is incapable of love. I really do want to learn how to love myself and protect my integrity and dignity. Peace to you!!
P.S. Screw the “family functions!” LOL My psychiatrist told me at one time that I needed a “family transplant”.
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Saturday, 18 July 2009 @ 9:27pm
OxDrover says:
De4ar 2much,
Oh my gosh, “family TRANSPLANT” !!!!! ROTFLMAO Oh, yes, that’s what I wish I had, an ANCESTOR TRANSPLANT! but I guess we get the cards we are dealt!
I have always said that the “finest china has been through the hottest fire” and as far as I am concerned, every blogger here is FINE China!!! I learn from each one here. That’s one of the best thing here is that we support and encourage each other in our individual walks.
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Saturday, 18 July 2009 @ 9:47pm
justabouthealed says:
reading all this after the fact, but Escapee, I loved your “his way of living is all about greed, gain, self-gratification, putting himself first – even or especially when it means belittling and conning others – this is what makes him feel empowered – what a very sad and toxic way to live.” I needed that reminder today. I’ve been in a lot of physical pain and when I get down like that, and a love song comes on, it can be a trigger and I cried for the first time in 6 months I think, but all better mentally and back in reality, though physically…ugh!
and love the family transplant too!
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Saturday, 18 July 2009 @ 10:06pm
Tilly says:
2MUCH2TAKE :
So glad she didn’t turn up! So glad your mum is on YOUR side! Psychopaths and narcissists and their friends are pretty predictable after awhile, (except in relation to when they are going to strike/ be violent).
But you can always count on their “best friend” giving you up to them! Same as you know, if given the chance, your sister will clock you again.
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Sunday, 19 July 2009 @ 3:16am
blueskies says:
Hey ‘22′!! I like it , short and catchy!xxx
I am so glad that you had a float down the river with your friend! Its sounds glorious!! The perfect thing to do! x and now you are resting and getting your house in order – this is all GOOD stuff. BIG BIG Hugs!
I love the water, my favorite place in the whole world is a little place of no significance on the south coast of england where the river runs into the sea. Just being there puts me at peace.:)
I am also glad that the memorial went well and you got some validation from your mother.x
LOL! Yes I have been my own putty buddy for too long!!
Tilly:)
thanks.I have had TRUCK loads of strength from you ever since I first came here! I think you are an amazingly strong person, an amazon warrior! And I am definately going to borrow some of YOUR tools, to tweak my tendancy towards wishy-washyness;)x
I am sorry to hear about your nightmares:( I know how awful that can be, I grew up not dreaming unless it was a nightmare (funny that), and while in the relationship with the S/P I used to have terrible anxiety dreams that would have me waking up crying out (funny that!) but they seem to have subsided now (funny that!) I still dont sleep well or for long but its getting pretty peaceful when I do. Have you sought any help to sleep? I know it wont help with the underlying issues, but I wonder if you can get some help in getting a decent rest. You NEED it to carry on being super Tilly!
End the pain.
I loved that quote! Thank you for sharing that with us all.x
Oxy,
‘I just call them the day before or day after and say how much I would have liked to have been there, but….”just couldn’t make it” and it is better for me.’
‘there is no one in my life to tell me how horrible I am. Being around people who love me rather than people who don’t is an amazing “upper.”’
I love this.x if people on here have noticed I seem a little ’stronger’ lately, I think I can trace it back to going NC with mother and sister.(funny that!)x
I feel like giving everyone a big TOWANDA!!!! xxxxx
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Sunday, 19 July 2009 @ 6:14am
OxDrover says:
Dear Blueskies,
Yep, NC is the KEY, the first key to open the doors out of the abyss that we find ourselves in. It gets you away from the monster, and is a barrier between you and them so that you can stand still and catch your breath.
If you were running away from a bear that was chasing you, there’s not much way you could get your head together to figure out a PLAN WHILE YOU ARE STILL RUNNING for all your life. You have to find SOME place to catch your breath and think for at least a minute. That’s what the first part of NC does for us. Gets us away from the freaking “bear” so we can calm down, catch our breath and THINK straighter.
Having communication with them which of course is a dead end street only keeps us so wound up, out of breath and confused that we aren’t able to make realistic and logical plans to extracate outselves from the whole deal.
It wasn’t until I went NC finally with my egg donor that I started to get enough clarity to see that there were OTHERS in my circle that were also toxic ON A SMALLER LEVEL but still keeping me unbalanced on my emotional feet.
About a year and a half ago I started to set some boundaries, and by this time last year, I had enforced those boundaries. These people in my life were not in a position to hurt me a great deal, but at one time4 I had cared for them a great deal and they were using me, guilting me, stepping on me, in just little ways but CONTINUALLY devaluing me….getting them out of my life when they refused to acknowledge or respect my boundaries helped another measure. And so on.
Each step, small or large, in getting myself physically AWAY from the dysfunctional or disordered people gave me another minute or day of “calm” and time to “catch my breath” and to start to sort through my thinking and my feelings.
By the time we are in desperate NEED of NC with people, most of the time I think we are pretty “scattered’ both emotionally and logically and filled with stress hormones, so it is difficult for us to make good decisions. Kind of like the old “it’s hard to drain the swamp when you are up to your arse in alligators”—but I will add one more thhing to that analogy, “Someone comes along and SETS your PANTS ON FIRE! AS WELL!”
Some people here are like I am, retired, or kids out of the house, kids grown, but others have young children, severe financial problems and/or have to work, go to school, and/or look for work as well as try to heal lin the meantime AND nurture your children who are also hurting cause daddy is feeding them poison. By going NC, crawling back into my “cave” and licking my wounds (here on LF) I was able to provide myself with PEACE, CALM AND QUIET at least externally, in which to heal.
Those of you with young children and other problems weighing down on your back, having to do a job, and “keep up a front” to appear like you are normal when your whole life is falling apart takes a LOT OF ENERGY AND STRENGTH. Even with the FEW responsibilities I had and also the support of my son D (so I wasn’t alone, I had someone to talk about this with and validate me) it was still more than I could do at times to sweep the floor, or feed the dog.
Though I have always kept house pretty well, I got to the point that it was NOT important to me any more if my floor was swept or the windows clean, or even sometimes the dishes done. I put ALL my energy that didn’t require me to take care of it (like feeding the dogs) in to ME, MYSELF. I cut drastically down on the things I did just to use that energy for myself. I got a new idea of what was REALLY important and what wasn’t! I realized I DESERVED to be FIRST on my list of important things!
Put yourself first, your kids next, and everything else on “have to” status…you may find that yhou are expending energy on things that you could better spend on yourself and your healing!!! TOWANDA!!! (((hugs)))) and always my prayers.
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Sunday, 19 July 2009 @ 9:45am
blueskies says:
That made me cry oxy:) I think i needed it though:STa me darlin’.
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Sunday, 19 July 2009 @ 10:17am
banana says:
Here is an example of how my P works. We have been to court and i have temporary orders for custody and here is why I wanted an order of protection.
Today I received several text messages from STBXP. I am not sure what he is trying to say.
I am guessing he just wants to get his way and not have to pay so much CS.
I had decided, after being able to pick DS up from STBXP every am. for the last few weeks and being able to drop STBXP off even in the presence of STBXP’s girlfriend last weekend, that I would hand DS off to STBXP myself today, instead of having my girlfriend do it.
However, after receiving the following text messages I asked my girlfriend to take DS out for me.
10:04 am “Sofresh, I can’t tell you how sorry i am for what i have done to u, but please understand i do love you and care for you. Even though you have hurt me threw our son. You have accused me of abusing DS and i still care for you. i love DS with every beat of my heart just as you do. Why cant we work something out instead of being nasty like this. Is this gonna be good for DS when he gets older. I know your mad at me but please dont take my son from me. I only see him 2 and a half days a week. What do i need to do Sofresh for this to stop. Please take some time to think about this without your anger being in the way. If i could start over i would change what i did i would. But whats done is done. Im hurting too. I just hope you can open up your heart forgive me for what i have done. Im not a bad person i just made a wrong decision or decisions that now i am paying dearly for. What do u want me to do. How can i make your pain stop.”
10:06 am “You know im not a bad person..”
10:30 am “I would like to just talk with you without fighting. Without judging one another. Without all these walls that have been put up. it kills me to see what we have both done to one another. I take my blame in full. Please dont laugh and think here we go again. Time is a nasty thing. It has worked against me in every way. Just please talk to me. Please allow yourself to just listen and not act. Please just think what jobe went through. that makes me think if he can go threw that and still come out with his head held high than this is a walk in the park. I was told by a good friend to never say never until your dead because than unfotunatly you have no choice. But we both have the opportunity now to make some good choices to make a better life or ourselves. There is a lot i want to say to you so please let me talk to you and you take it as you please. Well hope you have a great day.”
12:03 pm “Sofresh did you know about ___… Omg what is going on. I have been trying to get ahold of him and now i just found out he tried to kill himself. Im so blown away…Please talk to me.”
When she did this my girlfriend informed him that I had filled out the journal for this week.
As she walked away, she stated that she was looking for a new car (which she is) and that she liked his girlfriend’s car.
This was not encouraged by me, she told me afterward. However, I do not see the harm in what she said.
3:25 pm His response was, “I will not go there again u will have to pick him up half way or at my parents house. I do not enjoy being bashed by your friends. I will contact my attorney and advise him of this. I don’t instagate anything with your friends i don’t believe i need to hear things like that.”
My girlfriend did not mean any harm, I think she was just upset that STBXP was trying to get to me.
It is my understanding that the temporary order states that he must pick up and drop off at my residence. I will meet him out front if this is an issue, but I reiterate that the text messages gave me reason not to be alone in his presence for fear of manipulation as it is much harder to detect and ignore when it is done in person.
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Sunday, 19 July 2009 @ 4:06pm
Tilly says:
Go to the police immediately. Do not have any communication with your x psychopath unless it is by a legal court order. This has gone way beyond allowing “text messages” etc. You are a sitting duck, do it for your child if not for yourself. It took me seven years, (12 years if you count the overall experience)to get the ex psychopath father out of my sons life. It was the best thing i ever did for him and myself, in my entire life. It saved him and me, literally.
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Sunday, 19 July 2009 @ 5:07pm
banana says:
I send the information to my attorney.
It’s sunday of course. But I think she just doesn’t get it.
That is so frustrating. I think all attorneys and judges should have psychopath training.
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Sunday, 19 July 2009 @ 8:22pm
OxDrover says:
Banana,
BE CAREFUL, do not be ALONE with him. go to that link on classical sociopath manipulation—look at all the women and men who have been killed by their domestic partners. BE CAREFUL. (((Hugs))) and my prayers!
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Sunday, 19 July 2009 @ 8:58pm
lostingrief says:
okay,
it is NOT a good idea to listen to an old love song that you thought was just for the two of you, even if you think you can listen to it without any emotion.
not yet. not even after a year.
i’m a mess. tears, heartbreak.
god, forgive me, but i HATE him!!!
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Sunday, 19 July 2009 @ 10:09pm
henry says:
Lost Was thinking today about my ole X pain in the neck. About all the heartache, chaos, confusion, sleepless nites, lies, deciet, all the crazy ass stuff he did to control me. I remember all that bad chit, so was wondering why I still seem to miss the MF….I am really so relieved he is gone, yet still dissapointed in him and me.. Find myself wonderin if he ever really cared a teeny tiny bit, if maybe he ever has a moment when he misses me? I played a song to him one nite (I am that Man) by brookes and dunn and said “listen to this song it is how I feel about you. he listened maybe ten seconds went out side and made a call on his cell phone – there I was listening to this song and feeling like a butt….Lost – I dont know for sure why you and I are still fighting the same feelings, I really think it has do with me.. I had been single 20 + years before he came along. Even tho there were red flags sticking out of him like a porcipine, I kept sinking further and further into my illusion of love. In so many ways things were good, I had a companion that wanted what I wanted. He loved my dog’s. We slept so well together (unusual for me) I had someone to cook for, clean up after, take care of, rescue, fix, and when he got bored with it all, poof he was gone, I remember the pain of that, and I remember the pain of living with him, missing him hurts, but nothing compared to living in hell …so I have my moments and carry on…sorry you are crying tonite, I have not done that in well over a year.
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Sunday, 19 July 2009 @ 10:50pm
henry says:
I went to a very good physciatrist back when I was newly discarded, year and a half ago. I really liked this man but he left, nobody would tell me where or why. He listened to my life story and said ” You have two son’s that you raised and have a very good relationship with’ you miss them, and 20 years later here comes EX, and he tapped into that need I have, that feeling of being a Dad that I miss and EX was like a drop of water in a dry desert to me..then he said your X is a cluster B sociopath and will prolly get killed or die in the streets…I asked “can he be helped? the doc says yes but he doesnt want help and it would be like pissin on a forest fire, he also said I need to not want to live like this, dang I miss that shrink…..
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Monday, 20 July 2009 @ 12:27am
lostingrief says:
henry,
the plot thickens. it was interesting to hear of your children and that the missing of them may have been replaced with your ex-s/p.
i had a baby boy when i was 16, and my family forced me to give him up for adoption. i had a large, extended family who lived close by and i just wanted to raise that baby. but no, i was an embarrassment and that was that. it wasn’t an ‘unselfish act’ or ‘the best thing for the child,’ it was just hell — then and now. (i found my son when he was 22 and his a-family forbade him from having a relationship with me — they are wealthy and threatened to take him out of the will or something. he doesn’t want to speak to me. i now have a granddaughter whom i will mostly likely never see, but that’s a whole other story.)
my point is that there i was, a childless mother, and … enter spath-hole. he was 12 years younger than i, very childish and adorable and charming (and all those spath-hole things) and i was hooked from the second i met him. there was, amidst the passion and sex and intensity of feelings, a subtle mother/son thing going on. i did everything for him, forgave every transgression (agregious or not), and really thought that we were ‘forever.’ that our relationship lasted more than 20 years speaks to that.
and i find it interesting that he began the big discard just months after his own mother (who was my best friend) died.
you also wrote: ”I had someone to cook for, clean up after, take care of, rescue, fix, and when he got bored with it all, poof he was gone, I remember the pain of that, and I remember the pain of living with him, missing him hurts…”
exactly. i put all my energy into making (keeping) him happy and well-taken care of. meantime, i was slowly dying inside from not being well-taken care of.
listening to that song last night was excruciating. it said it all. that there was nothing inside him for me, really. he just, as he would always say, ‘do what i wanna do…period.’
so he got female #3 pregnant with baby #4. but this was the first time he did this while we were actually together. i never thought he’d hurt me this way. i was his soft place to land, and now that’s gone for him (although i’m sure he’s found it with someone else. i don’t believe now that he ever loved me.)
i never had other children. so here i am again, a childless mother x 2. i know that i have to be very careful not to fall in the trap of taking care of some man to fill up the hole left by my son being taken from me 35 years ago. amazing how trauma lingers in the heart.
thanks for that insight. it hurts, but is important for me to remember.
i’m actually doing pretty good overall. it’s exactly 1 year of NC. i don’t want him back, i still hate him. i realize how sick he is and that he’s just a two-bit player with a gorgeous exterior and a master’s ability to be flirtatious, manipulative and charming.
i do believe that his new gf and baby are being given his royal treatment. and i also believe that i just got too old and fat for him. hopefully, the pain this causes will also fade away some day.
henry, thanks for reminding me. you are blessed to have raised your children. you have something to show for your years of love and caring and generosity. let that be great consolation when you are saddened by the loss of the spath.
i also hope that mine sometimes things of me, misses me, realizes he made a great mistake. but i know in my heart that he doesn’t … even after 20 years.
moving forward is hard. but what else is there.
i send you — and all my LF friends — blessings.
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Monday, 20 July 2009 @ 7:45am
blueskies says:
Lostingrief . Your exchange with Henry here is exquisitely beautiful and exquisitely painful and incredibly humbling to read.
The need for me to have something to take care of, I think started early and I believe that it was a coping mechanism I developed at a very young age. It has not left me. I got pregnant at 16 too, but I left home and lived in the back end of crapsville to start the family I intended on building by myself to make up for the one I didn’t have. Making up what you need by creating it yourself for others…
It is amazing how trauma lingers in the heart, how we are shaped by it.
(I hope that made some kind of sense because I am not sure)
Lots of love.
xxx
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Monday, 20 July 2009 @ 8:50am
OxDrover says:
Dear LIG,
I am so sorry that you are hurting, but I do know that the pain will eventually end where the X is concerned. I thought I would DIE of grief for my X-P-BF, I felt like NO ONE would ever love me again….and at that time no one did…not even ME, now I am loving myself and have never been happier.
Hang on ((((hugs))))
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Monday, 20 July 2009 @ 10:02am
lostingrief says:
blueskies,
you were incredibly courageous, even at 16.
hold on to that knowledge as you clear the path to your divinity. most women forget that within, we are warriors and beings of light. we let it be challenged and superceded by all this nonsense about physical beauty and desirability and weight. we all buy it to it on some level.
it’s time to clear our hearts of the judgment of others and remember our truth, and trust our inner wisdom.
i was SO strong when i got back together with my ex-s/p/n six years ago. it only took him four to obliterate that strength and turn it into abject misery and self-loathing. but, i must take responsibility for letting him do it. even though it was subtle and nuanced, i felt it. i knew my heart was dying, and i felt the crushing of my spirit.
so we turn within and back to remembering who we are at our core. daughters of earth. women of substance.
TOWANDA!!!
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Monday, 20 July 2009 @ 12:06pm
lostingrief says:
ox:
i’m getting there in the ‘loving myself’ department, but know that until i stop hating him, i won’t be okay. i haven’t figured out how to do that yet; i’m still sort of praying and fantasizing that he crashes and burns in 1000 ways.
the thought of a man in my life right now is sickening.
i guess i’m no where near ready, huh?
thanks for the love …
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 20 July 2009 @ 12:08pm
henry says:
Lost – Hate takes alot of effort and energy away from us. I find it hard to believe that anyone could take advantage of good people like us. Especially with all the childhood trauma that some of us cope with on a daily basis. But my X proved to me that there are people that do that as a way of survival. And he made me see the truth about myself and the people I loved…it’s a scarey world out there and we best look after ourselves…
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Monday, 20 July 2009 @ 2:47pm
lostingrief says:
henry:
i don’t believe the world is a scary place … and even if it is, i refuse to walk in it that way. that, too, takes energy away from us; being wary at every turn.
these days, i purposely put my head up high and — fat as i am — walk like i’m a freakin’ queen. it works well for me. it’s admittedly sort of a fake-it-til-you-make-it move. but if i walk the way i sometimes still feel; weak, vulnerable, hurt … then it’s a lose-lose proposition.
yes, of course i know that hate is a terrible emotion to put out there, but i’m no where near forgiveness with that beastly eff. there are many days where he is just a fleeting thought now, and it makes me smile to know that in just a year i’ve been able to do that much after having him by my side for so long. yes, i hate him, and i just have to move through that now. no fate is terrible enough for him. it wasn’t just me he devastated. he has a wide and long path of destruction behind him. and when i think of how i saw that and took his side so many times, it makes me furious.
i often wonder: doesn’t ANYONE else see him for what he truly is??
guess what’s important is that i do. and maybe that’s all that matters right now. i’m tired of trying to fix the world.
i’m just focusing on fixing me. you’re right about that; we must look after ourselves. far as i can see, i’m the one that’s truly worth fixing.
TOWANDA!!!!
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 20 July 2009 @ 3:07pm
libelle says:
Dear LIG, dear Henry, thank you for sharing these very important thoughts with us all, I was moved very much by them.
One thought came into my mind: as the X tend to hold a mirror in our faces (as for instance we see OUR wonderful love in them), you LIG hate him so much because he holds the mirror of your child you gave away? My thought now is that you maybe never truly mourned your own child as everybody told you then that he/she “has it better than you ever could have raised him” and so rationalized your deepest feelings away.
Your child later also made choices not alleviating your unbearable pain by contacting you despite the danger of being poor.
You hate the X for the exact reason I hated “my” X, as he did not allow me to “heal” the “relationship” with my father but devalued me as my father did. He hold teh mirror of my father and myself, and I had to resolve this problem first to get ANY peace of mind. I later talked with my father on this subject and was able to “make peace” i.e. acknowledge that my father does what he does and that I could not alter ANY of his actions. So you can’t change any of your X’es actions, and also the decisions of your child are beyond your responsibilities, will or no will. It is as simple as that, but the simple things are always the most difficult in life, aren’t they?
You are completely intertwined in a gruesome pasticcio of feelings. You can see these feelings but they do not belong to you but to the X, but I think it really is pure self-loathing that has not yet turned into tears for the lost child and the terrible choice you were forced to make by pressure of ALL the others. It is no excuse at all to your subconscious as you still feel having abandoned a child but were not allowed to mourn but to “be greatful that it has it so much better”, and rationalize it away. I am sure when the healthy tears of mourning this terrible event come and clense your soul then you make not a baby step but a step as big as Armstrong did 40 years ago on the moon.
I have a patient who also gave away her baby as a teenager, and when she got cancer she sent a sign to her daughter, and the daughter allowed to reconnect, and now they made their peace. They have no strong relationship, but peace. It though takes always two to tango, and if the other part does not want it is very difficult. Then we have to make peace on our own, mourn and let go/let God.
I hope when the time has come, when the will has been effective in the favor of the child you might meet; (such a gruesome decision by the “new” parents! Jerks in my eyes). Can you give him/her a sign that you are there if he/she wants make contact? Or send some gift to the grandchildren by some friend?
I wish you a peaceful evening, and send all my hugs and love
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Monday, 20 July 2009 @ 3:21pm
henry says:
Lost – I live in Oklahoma and I hate tornadoes, they kinda sneak up up on ya and if you are in their path you can be destroyed. I have seen homes completley wiped away and right next door a house remains standing, not a scratch on it. Why and how can that happen? Force of nature? God’s sense of humor? Some thing’s just happen..If we are lucky we can rebuild a stronger house or dig a hole in the ground and jump in it when another tornado comes our way…tornadoes are what they are and they do what they do, kinda like a spath, I just got in the spath’s path and was almost destroyed, so even at my age (youth and good looks behind me) I keep building a stronger house..sounds like you are doing the same thing – Towanda
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Monday, 20 July 2009 @ 3:26pm
henry says:
guess I am rambling again..but too sum it up – shit happens – I am to a point where my past does not predict my future – what happened happened – wish I could go back and change things or go back and kick some ass but I cant – how I feel today is up too me – lemonade anyone?
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Monday, 20 July 2009 @ 3:45pm
Rosa says:
put some rum in mine, please.
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Monday, 20 July 2009 @ 3:46pm
OxDrover says:
Hey guys! What wonderful kind people you are! Libelle, what wonderful comforting words, not only for LIG but for the rest of us too. It is so true that we MUST grieve for the “losses” we have, and though in some cases it might be “for the better” for the baby or for the person living/dying with painful cancer, the LOSS IS STILL REAL and still must be mourned.
Henry, dear sweet, Henry, you have overcome so very much and you are some how a rose who grew out of a pile of chit for a family. That happens some times! You were so fortunate not to be like your parents or your brother–for all his money and “status”–I would much rather have you for a friend than him!
I wish I could take all of you in my arms and have a big (((GROUP HUG)))))))
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Monday, 20 July 2009 @ 4:02pm
lostingrief says:
libelle:
i have made peace with my son. we met, we talked, he was happy, i was happy, we were so much alike, but then his adoptive parents put the brakes on it. doesn’t mean i’m happy about it, though. i mourned for 22 years, until i met him. i don’t cry for him or over him (well, a little bit on his birthday or mothers day), but i appreciate your thoughts on this.
however, when you are a childless mother, no matter how much you grieve or how much you let the past be the past, or how much you move forward, there is always that huge piece missing. he’s my son. i carried him. i wanted him. i never got to mother him. that is a cross.
henry, yes, i am building a big-ass brick house! lol …
and i know i’ll be much smarter when i decide who is allowed in … and who ain’t!
thanks again for reminding me of that important connection to the spath. this earth mother has raised her standards considerably …!
much love.
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 20 July 2009 @ 4:28pm
Matt says:
henry:
I never had kids. But, the feelings you describe for your ex — the wanting to take care of him, protect him from the world, etc (my bad paraphrasing) rang so true with me.
Looking back, I’ve come to see that my desperate need to take care of S stemmed from the fact that I was not taken care of by my N mother and S father. But, it goes beyond that.
It has been said that Ss mirror our best qualities back at us. I think in the case of a victim’s needs, the S inverts those needs so that your needs become his needs. And so there I was, already starving for care by the time I met S, and he proceeded to put me on a starvation diet with respect to care for me, and bleed me dry while I cared for him.
It’s funny — I’ve been seeing a new guy for a little while. Last night I went over to his place after a weekend out of town visiting an old friend. The new guy had made me dinner (I didn’t even expect this). And because I’ve just started on Nexium for treatment of my whopping case of GERD which I developed courtesy of S, he made sure the dinner didn’t have anything acidic, etc, unlike S, who, not that he ever would make me dinner, but if he did, you can be damned sure it would have been 5 alarm chili with a ground glass garnish. Anyhow, I was reminded once again, what a caring man the new guy is. And I thought how nice it is to have someone who cares about me.
When I saw my therapist last week he said “the opposite of love isn’t hate — it’s indifference.” And I’m coming to see the truth of that statement. The emotions I felt for S in the aftermath seem to have waned to that point — indifference. Any actions I take toward getting the S sent back to prison I view with complete detachment — nothing personal, just taking care of business.
Ditto my S father, N mother and conman brother. In the aftermath of my mother’s illness, I started to see things returning to the norm — my parents enabling my brother in order to try to shore up his extremely poor parenting of his children. I have adopted a policy that I will no longer enable their enabling and have disengaged from the madness.
That is not to say that my parents haven’t taken a run at me trying to get me to take up some of the conman’s slack. I feel sorry for my neice and nephew. But, I have realized that through disengagement has come indifference. Like the situation with S, I cannot afford to get drawn in again. I have my own life to worry about — finding a new job, paying the bills and focusing on my own new relationship. I have MYSELF to CARE about.
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Monday, 20 July 2009 @ 4:58pm
henry says:
Oxy – You are the Rose my friend – group hug at Oxy’s house!!!! I agree with Libelle about the adoptive parents, they are jerks and prolly insecure and have jaded the young mans thinking. But I am glad you are at peace with this Lost – no greater gift could anyone give. Sorry you were forced to do this back then…That’s one lemonade with rum….next?
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Monday, 20 July 2009 @ 4:59pm
henry says:
Hey Matt – I can blame all my issues on my N mother. Seriously. Indifference = no contact. Glad you have met a decent man. And I am glad you found lovefraud. I think it has helped you as much as it has helped me.
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 20 July 2009 @ 5:07pm
Rosa says:
Matt:
If I may be so bold, I would like to cut through the chit-chat, and get right down to the nitty gritty, regarding this “Bachelor #1″.
How do you see the situation at the present time?
Is this man “Mr. Right? OR Mr. Right Now? OR Mr. Right Now (with Potential)?
P.S. You do NOT have to answer, especially if he knows about this site.
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 20 July 2009 @ 5:27pm
henry says:
Hell Rosa the man COOKS their is potential with that~~~!!!
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 20 July 2009 @ 5:39pm
Rosa says:
touche’
nothing sexier than a man who knows his way around the kitchen (and other rooms).
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 20 July 2009 @ 5:48pm
henry says:
I could run with that comment but I wont…
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Monday, 20 July 2009 @ 5:54pm
Matt says:
Rosa:
It’s a little early in the game, but I’m beginning to think I’ve found Mr Right. Maybe I had to learn the lesson of S (and all the oxygen thieves who came before him), but I finally had to take a good hard look at what I was getting involved with and what I wanted for myself before I could find somebody like him.
And he is soooooo different than anybody I’ve dated before — I mean a complete 180. I keep saying about him “If I had known what it was like to date somebody who was good-looking, smart, solvent, fiscally responsible, thoughtful, respectful, caring and doesn’t have to report into a parole officer — I would have done this years ago.” It’s true.
But, the thing is he respects me and I respect him. Things are starting off on a really nice foot. We enjoy the time we spend together. We are perfectly happy sitting at home and spending time as we are going out and doing something.
The other night I stopped at a bodega on the way to his place and picked up a bouquet of roses. Basic bodega roses. 10 bucks. He was so appreciative. When I think of the hundreds I spent of florist roses that I sent to the S and barely got a thank you, I get sick to my stomach — especially now that I”m out of work and could really use the money.
And unlike Henry, I am willing to run with your comment. Yes, Rosa, he knows his way around the kitchen…but he really cooks in other rooms.
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Monday, 20 July 2009 @ 7:19pm
lostingrief says:
matt,
so happy for you!
i hear ya’ about the ”five alarm chili with ground glass.”
once, near the ‘end’ i asked my ex-s/p/n what he had ever done for me. his answer: ‘i give you my time.’
amazingly, yesterday i was watching judge judy (i think), and there was a young woman suing some jerk who got her to buy $2500 rims for his car. he insisted ‘they were a gift.’
after he was put in his place and lost the case, he was interviewed and said, ‘i never should have given her my time.’
WTF!? it gave me chills.
is this another spath-hole catch phrase? anyone else heard this little gem from their spaths?
anywho … you will be given an awesome job, just like you happened upon this awesome guy. many blessings.
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Monday, 20 July 2009 @ 7:59pm
henry says:
my X could f–k up hamburger helper – at first I would fix these fabulous meals for us and he would take his plate to the computer desk – candle lite and wine? why bother – he was happier with a peanut butter sandwich than anything.. if we went out to dinner he ordered chicken fried steak – everywhere we went~~!!! sheesh somebody kick me in the head – why did I put up with that???
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Monday, 20 July 2009 @ 8:31pm
Rosa says:
He sounds pretty wonderful, Matt.
Happy 4U!
I ((Heart)) new romance!!!
Henry, mine clubbed me over the head, and dragged me off to the kitchen by my hair saying, “Me Tarzan! You Jane, you cook 4 me NOW!” (I am totally exaggerating. It wasn’t that bad. He never called me Jane.)
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Monday, 20 July 2009 @ 8:55pm
Matt says:
henry:
“my x could f-k up hamburger helper.” I love it.
Wish mine had ordered chicken fried steak — no matter where we went I could guaranty that he would order the most expensive things on the menu. And why not? After all yours truly, Matt, was willingly paying for the so-called pleasure of his company.
As most relationships evolve, the two people in it want to spend more time together. Not us. I only got his attention if I waved my platinum Amex. The quality of the time “he gave me” was so poor and in such a limited quantity. Thinking about back on it, I should have ditched S and hired a pro. A hustler charges by the hour. And he knows he had better treat you really well during that hour. S never got that part of the equation down.
So, henry I guess I have to ask the same question you did — why did I put up with that?
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 20 July 2009 @ 8:57pm
Matt says:
Rosa:
“He never called me Jane.”
I have no doubt about that. They never KNOW our names and always call us something generic like “hey, there” when they want something out of us and so many more insulting things when they don’t.
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 20 July 2009 @ 8:58pm
Rosa says:
Matt & Henry,
We have a TRI-fecta!!! “Why the hell did I put up with that?”
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Monday, 20 July 2009 @ 9:08pm
OxDrover says:
You guys crack me up! The ONLY thing I miss about my P-X-BF was his cooking, he was GREAT in the kitchen! I am a good cook, but don’t really enjoy cooking like some folks do, and I’m not all that creative, just basic ‘country cooking”—grease and grits, meat and potatoes and corn bread. My dream was to find a man who liked to cook! Oh, well, at least he got that right, but the dream became a night mare!!!!
Son D. just came home from Boy Scout Camp (been working there all summer) brought his bio-sister home and three or four of the other staff will be here tomorrow for a couple of days, so get out the BIG pot and make some 3-alarm chili, might try that ground glass garnish—these are young tough stomachs they should be able to handle it. LOL
Matt, if you and your friend break up, ask him if he is interested in moving to Arkansas—tell him I’ll keep him in the style he is accustomed to—and ALL he has to do is to COOK for me!!!!
I’ve been reading some interesting books lately, various kinds from “chewing gum for the eyes” (novels) to poetry, and some philosophy as well. (Meaning of life stuff) It is amazing to me how looking through all the things I am reading I am seeing it through the “glasses” of the “knowledge of good and evil” that learning about psychopaths has given me, about what is REALLY important in this life and what isn’t.
Maybe it is just my age as I am “winding down” in my life time, and there is less time before me than there is behind me, but I look at all the people I have loved, given so much of my time, so much of my life—and folks “spending time with something/one” is WHAT LIFE IS ALL ABOUT. TIME IS ALL WE HAVE. It is THE most important thing in the world. Our time. Think about that word for a minute.
TIME–and I think of the TIME I spent, wasted, being with people who didn’t even like me, thought I was nothing important….my time and my life given as a GIFT to them….but FINALLY I learned that my TIME spent with someone is the BEST gift I can give them, or they can give me. Not expensive roses, or jewelry, or anything else, just TIME.
I’m rambling here, but to me the gift of yourself to someone, and the time spent with them “that loves us” and NO TIME spent with or about the people “who don’t give a big rat’s behind” is the proof of the pudding. NC is taking back that GIFT, because they do not deserve it.
TOWANDA!!!!
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Monday, 20 July 2009 @ 10:32pm
PInow says:
Oxy, you can ramble all you want. It’s always a pleasure to read your posts. I think the P (mine at least) never thought the end would come or it’s time to wind down. It’s very curious how they are truly fearless in the sense of entitlement and feeling that they will always come out smelling like a rose, even in death. what do you call it when a being lacks a sense of responsibility? loyalty? honesty? a gift of ability of being by oneself and a gift for ability of staying on one task? what do you call a being that can cook great meal once and believe that they do it daily? and clean the garage once and believe that all saints must be summoned up to praise the Lord for such a giver? I am feeling very empty today, tired of the fighting, tired of not being able to “get over it” and betrayed, betrayed, betrayed. I realized what is the most worrisome feeling to me: he’ll betray his child just like he betrayed me. Does this make any sense?
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Monday, 20 July 2009 @ 10:51pm
newlife08 says:
Hey MAtt,
Just checking in-catching up.
So very glad to hear the glee in your posts and the sense of relaxation you are enjoying in your new r/s.
My status has not changed much – but it is encouraging to see others finding their way into a truly NEWLIFE.
Keep me posted – blessings to you on the job search too!!!!
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 20 July 2009 @ 11:31pm
endthepain says:
PInow..
I got the package thank you sooooooooo much!!! I am sorry that you are feeling so tired today…please listen to yourself and take care of your body!!! You will get over it….takes time and sometims it helps me to just “give it up” and I mean give it up in the sense of out of your hands..you canyt control..you cant change…it hurts I know..but you will get over it in your own time..when you care more about yourself and who you are WITHOUT him and his BS…as far as betraying his child…yes..he will…you cant stop it..all you can do is prepare for it and be the best that you can be for your child…much love!! xoxoxo
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Tuesday, 21 July 2009 @ 1:08am
Tilly says:
My ex p used to cook quite often. He would be drinking great quantities of alcohol in the kitchen saying, ” I’m such a good cook, arn’t i honey (he called every woman he was in relationship with “honey” I think he called me by my name once).
Matt, I know that I am the most paranoid one on here, but is the new love of your life, well, is he “too good to be true” ?
And if you find out that he is a cluster B then use him up and dump him… for me.
Henry:
“EX was like a drop of water in a dry desert to me..then he said your X is a cluster B sociopath and will prolly get killed or die in the streets…” I so loved this whole post and so identify with you. Your shrink sounded awesome. I pray he is right about the die in the streets part.
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 21 July 2009 @ 4:28am
Matt says:
Tilly:
No signs that he is too good to be true. He’s very grounded, very careful with his money. How careful? Yesterday he told me how many years he can carry himself if he loses his job — it is a substantial number, unlike me, who in less than 2 years will be saying “would you like fries with that, sir?”
My therapist made a similar comment about my S meeting an early and untimely demise. I have to admit I’ve stepped over some mighty unpleasant things in the street in my time. But, I would cheerfully tiptoe through the sociopaths — hell I wade through them up to my armpits if they were all dead and gone.
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 21 July 2009 @ 8:22am
PInow says:
Dear End,
I was beginning to get worried and thank you for your post. You are right, I am very tired. I see my motherly duties as a protector. I so don’t want to see my baby hurt by him again. Some tell me that I must teach the kids to be independent, prepared for life, take on challenges… Yakes, I put them through years of emotional abuse already. How are you?
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 21 July 2009 @ 8:47am
Rosa says:
Matt:
I refuse to say, “Would you like fries with that?”
Instead, I will be “Chuck” at Chuck E. Cheese’s. (I prefer to remain anonymous).
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 21 July 2009 @ 9:47am
OxDrover says:
Dear PI,
I think sometimes we all have that “empty” feeling–like where do I go from here? And nothing we can imagine in the future seems very alluring or inviting. sometimes even now I will feel bored and since I watch very very little TV, I look around fo rsomething to read or watch (my house is like a library so there are tons of books available and movies and DVDs) and I pick up a book, read a few pages, and throw it down, just not interested in it. sopmetimes I do find a book that is interesting…sometimes something distracting like a novel or a good history book…or I will read some of the “zillion” books on psychopathy or related subjects I now own, but put them down again because I am not wanting to read more about that subject right then.
Sometimes I think about what I want to “be” when I grow up, what projects I want to work on sort of the way I look at the finding something to interest me to read or watch. There is such a wide variety of things to give a person a “reason to get up” in the mornings, something to look forward to. Many of the things that motivated me to get up in the mornings are gone–gone forever—and right now the things that are available are still many, but I don’t have the enthusiasim I had for some of the ones that are gone. The P-X-BF motivated me for a while, boy, did he ever! LOL But now that he is gone I realize that our “motivation” to ge tup in the morning can’t be pinned to another human exclusively. It can be part of it, but must not be the WHOLE of it.
Now as I am getting older, winding down, adjusting my life for what is NOW possible (nope, I am never going to be an astronaut! Or Miss America!) and since I can’t do ALL of the things that ARE POSSIBLE still, I am picking and choosing….trying out some and deciding they are not as appealing as they were when I picked them up, sort of like the book I read a few pages of and decide it isn’t really as interesting as I thought.
During the times of my life when I had “built in” interests, like my kids to raise, a husband to love and plan with, a farm to restore, an air port to build, a clinic to build and run, etc etc. there was ALWAYS some big long term “project” to get me going, to take my interest and time….now life is slower, and I in some ways dont’ quite yet know how to handle it with the pace less adventurous and less stressful, with less riding on the outcome of my day.
Learning about psychopaths and getting through the grief and restructuring of my family took up five years, but now that I am pretty well recovered from the worst of the stress, my sons are also pretty well recovered from the worst of their stresses, and my P-son and my egg donor are out of my life and not occupying a big space in my head/heart or daily thoughts, the acceptence of their toxicity is acheived, NOW WHAT?
One thing is that I am working on giving back to God some of the blessings that He has given to me, by passing them on to others….Love Fraud support is one way, but there are others and I am working on them….more slowly than I would like to, but in a much better, saner and more realistic manner than I might have rushed into prior to all this mess….but satisfying.
Louise Gallager’s article about how she started to recover by giving to others is a very good model for me to aspire to, though I am past the point of making it a career as she has, I CAN give back to others what God has so graciously blessed me with in the way of “talents.”
When we look at what we HAVE (i.e. Count our blessings) rather than what we DON’T have, and realize that God has given us everything we REALLY need, then we can begin to feel just how “rich” we are in what REALLY matters. My past security hinged pretty heavily on my home here on the farm, but by leaving it (giving it up as it were since Idid not know if I could come back) I realized that I didn’t NEED the farm as a security blanket, etc now I realize that material resources are not sacred in themselves, but are to be USED for our good and shared with others who have less.
I also realize that a lot of things I used to think were soooo important don’t matter a “hill of beans” in the great schemes of our lives. Being honest, good, kind, compassionate, loving, patient, etc. those are the things that matter when you reach the point where you are toward the end of your life. None of us know how long we will live, today may be the last day of our mortal journeys, or many years down the road, but I do know that I am in the “last quarter” at least, that many more days have gone before me than are to come, but whatever time I have left, I want it to be filled with PEACE, JOY, CONTENTMENT, GRATITUDE, AND LOVE, not hate, anger, rancor, vengence, greed, and bitterness.
Avoiding toxic people is one way to assure that the last list is decreased and the first list can flower and bloom. When we are forced by life to deal with these satanic beasts, at least we don’t have to let them destroy us. TOWANDA!!!
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 21 July 2009 @ 11:32am
sabrina says:
Matt, Rosa, Henry and all, You guys are cracking me up here!
They called us all “honey”- mine was “sweetheart” so they dont mess up and use the wrong name. (so many victims, so little time ….) I just call mine Lollipop – Reminds me that I am no longer his sucker!
Matt, Best wishes with the new man- you may think that you found a gem- NEVER forget how much you bring to the table! To the table, and to all the other “rooms” of da house! YOU ARE that a bottle of Dom periogon!
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Tuesday, 21 July 2009 @ 12:16pm
sabrina says:
umm- dom perignon I mean
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Tuesday, 21 July 2009 @ 12:19pm
sabrina says:
meant to say- YOu are THAT AND a bottle of DOm Perignon- I am senile today
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Tuesday, 21 July 2009 @ 12:21pm
banana says:
I had to post this. I don’t know where. I am half-way through the divorce process and my P is wrenching to get his hooks into me again…..
I woke up this morning and picked up my phone. I began reading text messages from STBXP. the the phone rang. It was restricted. I was barely awake and figured I’d answer it…I never do this, what was i thinking!!!
It was him. Can you believe I didn’t even recognize his voice at first…It’s been months since he’s said more than “here” or “thanks”.
Anyway, begging me to reconcile. The whole time I am thinking… “he’s a sociopath, this is all part of the game.” But, I gave him an ear damn it!! for $ hours of bullshit.
Yeah. I through a lot of mud in his face, asked him a lot of questions.
Even told him I knew about him sleeping with his ex during our engagement, which he denied of course.
I can’t believe how much he was crying. And how hard he was crying. He carried on about how much he missed me, how much he wanted the family back.
I said things like, “Yeah, so you can have your family back and continue to cheat on me.”
or “Are you sure you aren’t doing this to butter me up and get a better settlement.”
or “You wouldn’t do this if we didn’t have the baby”
or “Why don’t you stay with OW and have your happy family with her.”
He kept saying how much he missed me.
He said he was willing to ask for a reconciliation through the courts. That way the court would see what he was doing and if he want back on it they would see he was lying. He said I could write up all my expectations legally.
(he called his attorney and was informed to no-longer contact me after yesterdays messages. So now he’s confused and I am not responding)
ARGH. I need someone to shake me. I am really trying to “wake up”.
Here are the new text messages.
“please call me its important. Its about baby and i. Thankyou.
If you call my phone is broken just say anything and i will call u back. So that way i will know it’s you. i dont want to go between lawyers to talk.
please call me. Just for once please put your anger aside and please answer. I dont want to argue with you. I want to see what we can do. I want to restore our marriage and be a family. i will do whatever it takes. I will do it threw the courts. Whatever i need to do i will do it. it just hurts to much to see what our son and us have to go threw. i am responsable for this. but please i swear anything.
i called my attorney and he stated that he just got a fax from your attorney stating that i have no contact with you unless its about baby. what do u want me to do. we just talked and i want to move forward but how can i when my attorney has that paperwork. Can you please call me and let me know. I didnt want to get in trouble.
Please dont hurt me by trying to save our marriage. Please call me and let me know if you want me to stop trying to save our marriage. Please i want this to work i want to stop fighting, baby is down for his nap.
we just had a great conversation i thought please just tell me if you dont want me talking with u. i don’t want you to get me in trouble for talking to u. please tell me what u want me to do. i afraid of getting in trouble please call or text me.
please just let me know what you want me to do. I’m trying to do my part to show u i want this and know i feel like im getting trapped. Please just let me know if you want me not to move forward with saving our marriage. Just let me know that your not telling your attorney something different. please let me know. I will leave you alone just let me know that i’m not gonna get in trouble for talking to you. please answer me.
my attorney said that there is nothing on his end that he can do if we want to get together and make the marriage work. Please let me know what you want me to do.”
Help me be strong.
He is telling me he is praying and God is helping him.
He has said although he doesn’t think he’s a sex addict he has an intimacy problem where he needs to show love through sex and when it get “old” or “comfortable” he feels unloved.
I know his disoder is more than this…he is a P….help me keep away.
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Tuesday, 21 July 2009 @ 12:39pm
henry says:
Banana – As much as I am convinced that my X is a P and uncapable of comittment, I would hate to be in your shoes right now. However your X did say he has a sex addiction and intimacy problems and having sex is the only way he feels love and when sex gets boring or old or (mundane) as my X described it, they are off to find that excitment of new love and new sex with someone new that does not know about all their flaws… (fresh humanity) is what I call it. So if he comes back you will be wondering when sex is gettin old again will ne be poking somebody new for the thrill of it? Sure he wants (the family back) they like security and hate being alone..Sounds to me like he is gettin bored with the other women already…This is no way to live – it would drive you BANANAS hope more come to offer advise soon…..
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Tuesday, 21 July 2009 @ 1:19pm
OxDrover says:
Banana,
Sweetie, the prime thing about a psychopath is that THEY LIE. THEY ARE THE LIE.
None of what he says is any TRUTH, this is just a hook that he is trying to get into you by playing th epity ploy.
If you fall for this, and go back to him, or BREAK NO CONTACT again, you will continue to be upset, mined phucked and in the FOG (Fear, Obligation, and Guilt)
GET REAL GIRL—BOINK! THAT IS ME HITTING YOU ON THE HEAD WITH AN IRON SKILLET TO GET YOUR ATTENTION.
It is your decision what you want in life, but if you go back tothis freak of nature who is a pathhlogical liar, sex addict, who has cheated on you, lied to you, then you KNOW WHAT YOUR LIFE WILL BE LIKE—just like it was before. YOU get to make a choice. Which do you want? (((hugs)))) STAY FOCUSED and STAY STRONG!
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Tuesday, 21 July 2009 @ 2:13pm
Kathleen Hawk says:
Banana,
This is what you wrote:
“He has said although he doesn’t think he’s a sex addict he has an intimacy problem where he needs to show love through sex and when it get “old” or “comfortable” he feels unloved.”
Don’t let this float by without you paying really close attention to what he’s saying. Sociopaths and narcissists can be really insightful about themselves. And sometimes they give you really good information.
If he has this problem, what is he doing about it? This is virtually a textbook definition of some kind of addiction. Whether it’s sex or relationships. It’s a serious problem, and it’s his problem, not yours. But it will become your problem if you let him into your life again.
If he’s serious about the relationship with you, he’s also serious about making himself capable of a having a relationship that includes personal responsibility, loyalty and trustworthiness. None of that is possible with this kind of problem.
If he wants back in, he needs to go to work FIRST on that problem, and not come back until he has it licked. That’s what he would do if he really cared about you. Otherwise, he’s not relationship material. Unless he can find someone who will accept and enable this behavior. Because it’s not going to change until he goes to work in a 12-step program and/or with a therapist to find the roots of it and change himself.
And again, none of this is your problem. His needy little baby routine is just the addict talking. He’s trying to get you to take responsibility for him by making you feel sorry for him. Or he’s trying to trigger your insecurities so that you and he can be needy together.
Don’t bite. You’ve come this far. You’ve found the strength in yourself to take your life back. If you’re ever going to find another partner, you want to keep on getting stronger so that you attract someone like yourself. Someone competent, responsible, trustworthy and who knows how to love without deliberately doing things that hurt you. Those people exist, but he’s not one of them.
Life sends us temptations to see if we’re really serious about not doing the same stupid thing over again. Sometimes we create our own temptations to test ourselves. This is just one of those times. You’re better than this. You deserve more.
Just brush it off. Say “no thanks” to whatever sent this to you. It’s a distraction, not important. You’ve got better, happier things to look forward to.
Namate.
Kathy
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Tuesday, 21 July 2009 @ 2:22pm
Escapee says:
Banana
Here, here Kathleen and Oxy, I’ll second that!
Re: the crying – why is he crying when he is the one who has betrayed you? He wants the ‘instant fix’ and he will go to any lengths to get it.
Stay strong and stay away. As Kathleen so rightly said – he needs to fix himself – you can’t fix him. He will NEVER fix himself, he will NEVER be truthful and loyal – he just wants the security of the stable relationship – as soon as this is re-established, he will just get cleverer at blindsiding you – this is HOW THEY OPERATE – you will just be enabling him.
God bless and keep you and keep posting for strength.
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Tuesday, 21 July 2009 @ 2:50pm
Matt says:
banana:
Three things jumped out at me from his texts.
First, count the number of “I”s as in “I want”, “I need”, etc. The number is staggering.
Second, count the number of “we”s. Pretty damned small except with respect to the “we”s illuminating what he/I want.
Third, look at the “you” statements in his texts. If I am not mistaken, every “you” statement involves something that “you” can do to give him what he/I wants.
Fourth, the manipulation in those statements is staggering. Especially when it comes to the baby. “Please call me about the baby. It’s important.” Extremely manipulative. If there is something important than he should be communicating it directly. I hate to sound heartless, but since he is the parent responsible for your child’s well-being during what I am concluding is his visitation, he should have the numbers for doctors, emergency rooms, etc and act accordingly.
Fifth, the manipulation by using your child is also very illuminating. Classic sociopath — use others to do your dirty work — even if they are infants.
Sixth. Your lawyer is right — he can’t save you from yourself if you are determined to go back to this lunacy. If you are thinking of doing this for the “sake of your child” — I can speak as the victim of two lunatics who stayed together for my siblings and my sake. We would all have cheerfully sold body parts to finance our parents divorce. Don’t do this for your kid’s sake. He will thank you later.
Seventh. If you go back, by the time you decide to refile for divorce, I suspect you will have given up so much leverage, and be so much more beaten down that you will not be able to wage half the battle you are now waging.
Save yourself. Save your sanity. Save your kid. Don’t get drawn in.
Speaking as a lawyer, I would go into court and get a restraining order prohibitting him from contacting you except with respec to CLEAR AND EXPLICIT EMAILS REGARDING YOUR CHILD.
On those emails, I would make him use what in law school we called the “IRAQ” method which stands for Issue, Reason, Answer, Question. (Obviously you rearrange them into the proper order). See? Clear and Explicit. None of the manipulation I saw in his texts.
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Tuesday, 21 July 2009 @ 3:03pm
Matt says:
banana:
Now that I see the posting, a hell of a lot more things than three jumped out at me. Sorry.
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Tuesday, 21 July 2009 @ 3:03pm
ANewLily says:
Banana, Yes, his disorder is “more than this.”
I thought his repeating, “alone just let me know that i’m not gonna get in trouble for talking to you. please answer me.”
Clear sign that he is only thinking of himself, not you.
I thought it was interesting that he thought it was a “great” conversation when you basically called him on everything.
Please don’t let the “God is helpint me” persuade you from your decision to divorce him. Mine pulled that on me and I let it get to me but only “bought” me 10 months of more inrwnaw pain. I did feel good about giving him a chance — but was it worth it? NO!!
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Tuesday, 21 July 2009 @ 3:24pm
ANewLily says:
Golly, “inrwnaw” should be INTENSE pain. (Where did I put my reading glasses?!)
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Tuesday, 21 July 2009 @ 3:33pm
justabouthealed says:
Banana,
All good advise above. For me, and I think many women, we pay attention to WORDS instead of actions. TURN OFF THE SOUND. Look at what he is doing….and NOT DOING. As Kathy points out, he has DONE nothing to deal with his problem. As Matt points out, his focus on himself has not changed.
When my husband (who is NOT a n/p/s) confessed that he had hid a drinking problem from me for 38 years, he said “I know words won’t make this right, only actions. Here are the actions I’m going to take. Let me know if there are more actions you want me to take. And I know none of this counts until I start doing them.” His actions included joining support groups, signing a promise to me that I could have all the assets if he ever lied about drinking to me again, books he purchased and read, going to a marriage counselor with me, not drinking, answering all my questions honestly, and most importantly, he started being RESPONSIBLE about our finances, the work at home, helping me with my at home job, applying for jobs, doing income producing activities, working his butt off. And he has kept it up for 6 months
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Tuesday, 21 July 2009 @ 4:00pm
justabouthealed says:
Matt…
You are doing GREAT at deciphering these people! All that you said did not occur to me.
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Tuesday, 21 July 2009 @ 4:02pm
Escapee says:
Matt
Thanks for the reminder about the ‘I’s, ‘We’s and ‘You’s and the context in S/N/P speak.
It’s the most obvious ‘red flag’ and one that’s sooo easy to overlook when emotionally charged.
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Tuesday, 21 July 2009 @ 4:45pm
endthepain says:
okay..LF famiy..I need some support today..Ive ben ding VERY well..feeling very strong..stayed with NC..actually changd my cell # so he doesnt have it…he has caled the home # to leave a ridiculous message for our 3 yr old stating he wants to see him…but never any other details…I didnt respond as I gues he thought I was going to be jumping up and down wth joy…lol.anyway…w go to court regarding his lowering his child support AGAIN..on Thursday..Im feeling a bit anxious..as i will have to see him…and I would like some strong words to help me here…..
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Tuesday, 21 July 2009 @ 5:28pm
Matt says:
endthepain:
I was thinking about you and your situation the other day. To argue against the lowering of the support I would argue: (1) your expenses haven’t dropped and raise examples of costs that have risen; (2) if he is returning to CA and moving in with his mother I would argue that he will have no living expenses and can afford to maintain his current support level and (3) he is still married and his wife’s income can count toward your child support.
To keep your sanity regarding the drop in support, remind yourself that this is not permanent — the minute his circumstances improve, you haul him back into court for more money.
My perception has also been that while you’ve made great progress in dealing with your S, I think you are still a little mushy on the boundary setting. That’s why I urge you to get really firm agreements into place on custody, support and visitation. Your boundaries regarding S will get far stronger since even if you find yourself wavering, all you have to do is point to the agreement and hold it (and yourself) to its literal terms.
Also, regarding the call to your 3 year old — take a look at the posting I did today (just above) to bannana on interpreting socio-speak. His statement was manipulative to both your kid and you. If he wants to visit he should be giving hard facts.
Good luck and keep the faith. It really does get better.
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Tuesday, 21 July 2009 @ 5:39pm
justabouthealed says:
Endthepain, I’m sure others will have strong words, but just picture yourself walking into court with all of us with dark glasses on, bulked up, ready to protect you, your very own secret service. Whatever he tries to stir up in you, we will decimate. We are emotional insulation around you. Nothing will get to you. We will protect you. Stay calm, do whatever mind games help you. If it makes you feel stronger, pretend you just won a million dollar lottery and he doesn’t know it. (thank goodness, because he SHOULD pay his fair share) Conjure up inner strength. Don’t let emotions flood you. Stay in the moment, strong, rationale , calm. If the judge screws you, just let it bounce of you, knowing that better days are ahead. Be strong no matter what.
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Tuesday, 21 July 2009 @ 5:41pm
witsend says:
endthe pain,
Naturally if I were you go with Matts advice as he is the lawyer and he gives great advice as far as sticking to the FACTS. The facts is what the courts want not emotion.
From the womans emotional outlook I know exactly what you are talking about feeling anxious with your upcoming court date.
The thing about court dates is you wait for weeks for them to happen and by the time they come around you almost feel emotionally charged. It seems like you get 5 minutes of the courts time to plead your case and then whatever decision is made you have to live with it. Good, bad or indifferent.
THAT is I believe exactly why you want to present to the courts only the facts. The judges/mediators/friend of courts ect I think get tired of the “drama” that surrounds most cases.
So use that and run with it. Groom yourself to play the “role of a lifetime” for your 5-10 minutes in court. Get it all out of your system (the emotion and fear) in the next couple of days by talking to your friends, coming here, and whatever else you have to do.
Go into court prepared and cool, calm and collected. Documents in hand.
Think Erin B. Good Luck…..
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Tuesday, 21 July 2009 @ 5:57pm
banana says:
Thank you all for you encouragement, advice and S/P to human translations.
I think I am okay.
I told him I was moving forward with the D, and that although I advised him to get help from a certified sex addition therapist, I didn’t care if he went back to his GF and stayed with her(where he has been), married her and started a family.
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Tuesday, 21 July 2009 @ 10:04pm
Kathleen Hawk says:
banana, congratulations. It must have been a stressful day. Sometimes it takes a little time to feel solid, even after we did something good for ourselves.
What you said sounds good.
Kathy
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Tuesday, 21 July 2009 @ 10:31pm
Tilly says:
Sabrina:
” I just call mine Lollipop – Reminds me that I am no longer his sucker!”
I love this! I am definitely stealing this one! I wonder how long my next partner stays around when i keep calling him “lollipop” lol! xo
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Wednesday, 22 July 2009 @ 3:06am
Jen2008 says:
““He never called me Jane.”
Re: the not calling you by your name: “I have no doubt about that. They never KNOW our names and always call us something generic like “hey, there” when they want something out of us and so many more insulting things when they don’t.” ————————————
Well, mine almost always called me by my actual name, although occasionally he would call me honey or baby. So I saw no difference whatsoever between my ex P and a regular person when it came to how he routinely addressed me. However, if for some reason he did not call me by my name, it was because he was substituting my actual name with a vulgar term when he was mad at me or irritated with me or in one of his threatening moods and I have NEVER once had a man in a normal relationship call me a whore (or accuse me of being a whore) or call me a c*nt and the P did that.
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Wednesday, 22 July 2009 @ 8:04am
banana says:
I was never called names, not until I told him I was divorcing him and going for full custody. And that was an argument. In the beginning I was always baby, then babe less an less, by the time we were married it was my name, shortened, what everyone calls me, and he still does.
He has also never raised a hand to me.
He was usually passive aggressive, so he was usually the one telling me to calm down, lower my voice.
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Wednesday, 22 July 2009 @ 9:11am
Rosa says:
Banana:
Mine never raised a hand to me, either.
However, early in the relationship, I confided private, personal details of my life in him. These are things that I did not want anyone else to know. I thought he was my ‘best friend’, and I could confide in him. Hell, he even told me I could trust him. He took that information that I told to him in strictest confidence, and spread it all over town.
And then, a few years later, when he ran a Smear Campaign on me, everyone believed it. Why wouldn’t they? All of the information he spread about me the first time was true, so everyone naturally fell for the Smear Campaign, as well.
It was very hurtful, and something I will NEVER forget.
There were rumours going around about me that were the POLAR OPPOSITE of who I was and what I stood for, and people were actually believing these lies.
I felt like someone had ripped my skin completely off of me.
I have never been physically abused by a man, but I almost wish he would have broken my arm or something, instead of what he did.
That’s why I tell people on this site that a Smear Campaign can be just as devastating as any physical abuse they can do to you.
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Wednesday, 22 July 2009 @ 12:41pm
Rosa says:
And when I confronted him about breaking my trust the first time, he told me things like, “It’s not that big of a deal. You need to loosen up. You are too uptight.”
The lack of concern was staggering.
And, of course, I accepted that bull-shiite back then.
Another Hindenberg-size red flag that I overlooked.
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Wednesday, 22 July 2009 @ 12:54pm
ANewLily says:
Skipping over the others’ painful stories but NOT minimizing them, I need to get back to the topic of this thread to recover the bit of sanity I had from hearing finally from 3 of my adult children after years and years of silence.
Not one has called back! Now, not even the third daughter who had been calling me every week for the last year (but with the “elephant” still in the “living room.”)
I so identify with the Tom of this thread’s topic for his pain in his wife taking their son to another country and he hasn’t seen him since.
My situation is different in that mine were all adults and married and on their own – -and on GOOD terms with me when I left their father suddently.
At the beginning of the parental alienation (that I didn’t know bout) different coundelors told me 1) they probably “chose” to stay close to the father because they still wanted to get his approval (which I know they will never get), 2) they stayed with him to assure themselves of a hefty inheritance (which is repugnant to me but possibly true), 3) they might be afraid of him (and I think this is the truest reason.)
They all still live within 5 miles of him and his new live-in girlfriend (but disapprove of this arrangement) and I am 1800 miles away.
About a week ago, strange noises were happening around my house (like he USED to do to frighten me in our home) and hang-up calls for two days. (I think I mentioned this on another thread) and then found out that he and girlfriend had been in my city for two days (three?) The “noises” had to have come from him. He knows where I live (and that is another story)
Now, NONE of our children are communicating with me!!!!!
My thoughts are going rampant. Has the new GF now become my enemy (and theirs)?? It didn’t help to read on Relationship Remedy blog about “evil stepmothers” and how they can SOMETIMES make matters much worse.
I know nothing about this woman. I have allowed myself to think she is nice and was just trapped by him and now tied to him via “captured” assets. What if this isn’t true? What if she haa even a worse personality disorder than the EX?
I have tried so hard to accept the present long-standing NC by them and in turn by me as Oxy and many others have advised.
I live alone and after two years of bad health and recovery from injuries, I have NO ONE to talk to about this, not even my two older sisters who got trapped into his lies a year ago. I have no more money for therapists.
What do I do? What can I do? I have thought about moving back to that community and renting an apartment before my money here, an expensive state, runs out But what about my own personal safety? How important is that in view of LOSING my beloved children?!!
I have thought about so many other alternatives and rejected them all. I feel very stuck. Never in a million years would I have ever thoguht I would be in this position at age 72.
Maybe I made a mistake (although I don’t think so) by leaving 7 years ago in the first place? I’ve never questioned that until now. Now I’m rethinking it.
I pray and pray and pray and don’t get an answer!! Why not?
–
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Wednesday, 22 July 2009 @ 1:03pm
ANewLily says:
Rosa and others, Strangely my EX didn’t call me names, didn’t yell at me but he sure knew how to HIT at “appropriate” times to keep his control over me.
And the past 7 years of his smear campaign (all lies, not a hint of truth) have been the WORST of all — and the most damaging to my soul!!
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Wednesday, 22 July 2009 @ 1:09pm
witsend says:
ANewLily,
This is a tough one as you are between a rock and a hard place. With your children.
If you go back to the communuty that you left though, you would have to deal with SO MUCH. The smear campaign, but most importantly you wouldn’t be safe. You would totally loose your peace of mind. (even if you have just a little “bit” right now)
And not really knowing WHY your children are not calling you, what kind of “control” or manipulation he has used to put them in a position to not contact you?
But here is something to give some thought to. Your going back there might not change the fact that they aren’t having much contact with you. He might put the pressure on them even more?
If the new girlfriend is a “bad person” they will see that. Usually adult children have trouble accepting new girlfriends taking their mothers place. And if she is a bad person, that will be all the more reason not to accept her.
I am so sorry you are going through all of this. Please leep talking about it here on LF and maybe you will get some good advice from others.
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Wednesday, 22 July 2009 @ 2:31pm
ANewLily says:
Witsend, thank you for your comments, especially your thought that if I went back, the pressure on them might be greater. I hadn’t thought of that.
See, my mind is having great trouble sorting out “truth” of the thoughts to the “fiction” of them!! I think I am trying to make decions without enough information. But how do I get the info I need!?? I don’t know!
One suspicion I had about DD#2 calling me for the first time in years is that I did know that she and hubby had invited her father and GF to go with them on their annual vacation to Mexico in late February. I was thinking maybe she finally saw her father “as he was.” but maybe she also saw that GF wasn’t what she had portrayed herself to be (nice.) All suppositions! Ugh!
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Wednesday, 22 July 2009 @ 2:59pm
ANewLily says:
What “muddies” the waters is the fact that the ONLY long-time “friend” (from the same community) who BETRAYED me and caused such harm to me during the initial part of the divorce proceedings contacted me last week to join her Facebook as a “friend.” It was easy to institute NC with her and I didn’t even yet know about No Contact!
Three years ago she contacted me about “burying the hatchet” and I politely refused. (I did forgive her — from a distance — though)
So, WHY did she “out of the blue” contact me, now?! What percipated it? I KNOW she and her hubby remained social friends with “empty suit” and his GF, just going out to dinner and concerts with them as they had with “us.” EVEN THOUGH she was the ONLY one I had confided in about the physical abuse!!
It’s all crazy-making all over again!
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 22 July 2009 @ 3:07pm
witsend says:
ANewLily,
It would be hard to know why she contacted you now….But it really isn’t important why she did. (maybe guilt?)
If she still has contact with your Ex in any way shape or form though it is likely better to have N/C with her. Just her contacting you has already created some fear in you.
If she remained friends with him knowing about the abuse then she isn’t YOUR friend. And she has already managed to “stir up” the situation, just by contact. Anything you might have to say to her might get back to him. Just remember that and it will be easier to let her go out of your thoughts.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 22 July 2009 @ 3:17pm
Leah says:
** NEED INPUT/HELP**
I went to see a new doctor today because mine retired. My contention that my problem with vomiting was caused by intense stress was met with what I consider a surprising amount of insensitivity. She said plenty of her patients had been through far worse than me and didn’t vomit and that she has a background in psychology and knows the effects of stress.
I completely get it about not telling the average person because they will not understand but I am at a loss as to what to tell those who are supposed to be providing my medical care. In the interest of standing up for myself I will leave a message with her office that I feel the treatment was unprofessional. But I’m fairly sure I’ll just be dismissed as a crackpot. Perhaps I should do what Oxy does and show up with court documents. To be honest I still have a great deal of trouble even looking at those documents.
I have (had) two friends who have dealt with psychopaths and both had gastrointestinal problems as a result of the stress. Neither were throwing up, but one had chronic heartburn during the time of her ordeal and the other was acutely nauseas for two years. He had an upper GI, which found nothing physically wrong. Eventually he commited suicide.
I could go back to my ex’s GP, whom I’ve seen in the past. However, I saw her once post-extortion, etc. She was cooly professional but evinced some skepticism towards me. God knows what he told her. I actually did bring court docs then but did not show her as I started crying (just like today’s visit).
Anyway, any thoughts on how to find a decent doctor and what to tell and how to phrase it would be more than welcome.
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Wednesday, 22 July 2009 @ 3:37pm
justabouthealed says:
That’s awful. I’ve been lucky, but I didn’t attribute it to stress…THEY did. Mine told me I needed two months off work to just relax, and wanted to write a note to my boss, but I’m in a situation where that wouldn’t have worked, so I’ve tried my best to “relax” while working. I stopped being able to eat solid foods 6 weeks after the P first contacted me through email. My body was screaming at me, but wasn’t listening. Still can’t eat solids.Literally. All liquid diet.
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Wednesday, 22 July 2009 @ 4:14pm
justabouthealed says:
After three years, from the first time he contacted me.
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Wednesday, 22 July 2009 @ 4:15pm
Leah says:
Thanks JAH. You lucked out if your provider was that accomodating. I can relate to the contact out blue from the ex-psychopath. Mine changes his email address and writes to my work email every six months. It just sends me over the edge. It seems so intrusive and such a shock – though of course it should not be as that scenario seems to be rather common.
Sorry to hear about the food issue on your end and hope it improves.
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Wednesday, 22 July 2009 @ 4:24pm
Matt says:
Leah:
Ditch the doctor. And for God’s sake don’t go near the ex’s doctor – that’s contaminated territory. No matter how far you have to drive, crawl or hitch-hike, it is worth it to see a docor who believes you and treats you with the respect you are entitled to.
You should probably be seeing a gastroenterologist, anyhow. I was having heartburn so bad that I swore a hole was going to burn through my chest. I finally went to a gastroenterologist. Let alone performing an upper GI, he heard what had been going on in my life and said “well, you’re a prime candidate for GERD.” So, I’ve been on Nexium the last month — definitely helping altho insurance will not pay the 2Xs a day he wants and dietary changes. It seems to be helping.
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Wednesday, 22 July 2009 @ 4:29pm
ANewLily says:
Leah, I feel so sorry that the doctor dismissed your symptoms. I have been lucky, too, in that both GPs I saw diagnosed my ill health properly. All I said was that I had escaped from a long-time physically abusive “marriage.” The first one was really on the ball and started asking me questions, “Did he…?” and “Did he ever ….?? Turns out that she had left an abusive marriage, too. She KNEW! (I learned a lot of the initial info about narcissism from her. I didn’t yet know about the sociopathic part. Maybe she didn’t either?)
I am under the care of an internist as my primary care physican and she “gets it” too and is an excellent diagnostion (sp) and sent me to a gastroenterologist. I haven’t said much to him but am in the middle of some testing for my stomach problems. I am hoping for some relief.
How about just forgetting this doctor and her insensitiviey and trying another one?
Of course, your problems are due to the stress of dealing with a disordered person. Don’t let anyone tell you differently!
But, we do need to do as much as we can to cope with the stress. As the title of this thread mentions, “When the pain caused by a sociopath doesn’t stop.” I’m 7 years out and the “out of the blue” JUNK still catches me off guard.
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Wednesday, 22 July 2009 @ 4:45pm
ANewLily says:
Leah, I just read Matt’s reply and I second the motion not to go near the Ex’s doctor. I don’t know where you live but surely there are other doctors nearby or in a nearby town?
Look until you find a good one. I, like Matt, do recommend a gastroenterologist. I’d even skip the GP — unless you need a referral to see the speicalist?
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Wednesday, 22 July 2009 @ 4:50pm
ANewLily says:
Witsend, you have such great advice — and the compassion shows through. Thank you!
I am going to have to leave here. If I can’t go back, WHERE do I go?
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Wednesday, 22 July 2009 @ 4:53pm
ANewLily says:
Justabouthealed, I am so sorry that you STILL can’t eat solid food. Liquid diets are BORING! That happened to me DURING the godawful “marriage” a couple of times. I never confessed to the abuse, though, to ANYONE. My gastro symptoms are different now but so far haven’t found a “cure.”
Maybe I should voluntarily go on a liquid diet and think of you. Oh, dear, I can’t. I developed Type 2 diabetes two years ago and my diet is very constrained.
Oh, well, please know that I know from experience what you are going through and I CARE
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Wednesday, 22 July 2009 @ 5:00pm
justabouthealed says:
Thanks ANewLily. I have not known of anyone else facing this, your words were very validating. Funny, just last night I thought “what if I get diabetes” because then I couldn’t drink the ensure. Ensure has kept me very healthy now for three years, my blood tests come back fabulous. It sounds like you can eat now. That gives me hope that eventually I will be able to also.
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Wednesday, 22 July 2009 @ 5:11pm
witsend says:
ANewLily,
Gosh where you should go is something you need to give alot of consideration. You don’t want to move again and have it be an expensive mistake. And I use that term to have triple meaning. Not at your emotional “expense” or dollars and cents expense or health expense.
It would be wonderful if you could move to a place where you already have some one….I think you mentioned earlier your sisters are trapped within his lies….
Maybe an old dear friend that lives somewhere not within your “old” community where you moved away from but somewhere else?
If not, then maybe you might really want to investigate some small town living somewhere. Really investigate the area though and see if you might not find a nice FRIENDLY small town. I mention small town because sometimes it is easier to make friends and make contact with others, than big impersonal city living. Also often small towns often have houses that are more affordable than the big cities. Where I live they are practically giving houses away in this economy because people can’t sell for market value.
It seems to me if your Ex would mess with your house 1800 miles away from where he lives just to upset you, because he is in your area……Then He is a dangerous man. So if you lived closer to him he wouldn’t leave you alone. Living alone is hard enough without having to have to deal with the fear of someone messing with your senses by making noises and scaring you.
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Wednesday, 22 July 2009 @ 5:12pm
OxDrover says:
Dear Lily,
I’m not sure why your daughters called and then sto0pped? Have you called them lately or has the calling only been from them to you? Maybe if they have don3e all the calling they think you dont’ want to hear from them? Just a question more than a statement.
Where to go? Why did you pick where you are now? Did you have friends there? I don’t think I would go back where the X is unless you move into an assisted living facility where you would NOT be alone. him messing with your safety and peace of mind at your house lately where yo ulive, I doubt he jwould leave you alone anywhere near him if you lived in a detatched house. Sometimes you might be able to find a very small convenient apartment that would be unlikely to be “messed with” but there is always the chance he would mess with or vandalize your car unless you had a way to lock it up.
Finding a place that would be secure and safe (especially with your health fragile) is going to be a difficult thing. Also, living clsoe to people who can be of assistanc3e in emergencies too. It has been a long time since I moved away to a large city where I knew almost no one…I would hate to do that at my age and I am 62…so I can only imagine doing it at 70+ and in fragile health.
As for why your daughters call and don’t call etc. or invite dad and his GF—I wish Iknew what their real feelings were. You might actually call them and ask them say “hey, let’s have a heart to heart here and get our feelings on the table” rather than just “act like nothing happened.”
As for your X-friend wanting to bury the hatchet, I think she had buried it DEEP ENOUGH IN YOUR BACK that we can figure out her INTENTIONS.
I know sometimes that friends and family can feel caught in the “middle” and love two people and don’t want to make a “choice”—but I cannot imagine being “friends” with someone who treated my mother like your X treated you. Either YOU are lying or HE is and I think your kids need to get off the FENCE and decide who is the liar….my egg donor chose my P-son over my son C, my adopted son D and me, so she can have HIM, but she cannot have all of us. Anyone who would be “friends” with someone who tried to kill me is NOT my “friend.” There are just some issues that are too important and can’t be glossed over as a “miisunderstanding”
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Wednesday, 22 July 2009 @ 5:16pm
ANewLily says:
Oh, Oxy, I laughed about the hatchet! No, there is no way I would ever trust her again, even a little bit. I do count myself lucky that she is the only one who betrayed me. I still communicate with others from “home” regularly but it doesn’t help my aloneness since it is all by phone or email — and no one near enough to help me when I need it.
I also had to “laugh” when you mentioned about not daring to make a move to an unknown city “at age 62.” I was 65 when I “escaped” here where I knew no one. I know, without doubt, you could do it, too, if your life was in danger as mine was.
Regarding the calls — DD#3, the nurse, mostly has called me because her schedule always changes. I have called the other two — and my son — recently after they called me first and they talk “nice” but then recently, no pickups or replies to my voice mails. STRANGE. Something has happened on their end! And no calls at all from them — even DD#3!
I have no doubt that they now believe I told them the truth about their father trying to kill me. And I know beyond a doubt that we all got along splendidly (REALLY!) before the smear campaign at my sudden departure — and maybe their being threatened?
I truly don’t think it is a matter of “who is lying” at this point. And for the “fence,” realistically, I don’t think they have real choice in the matter, never have actually. I do imagine they are VERY conflicted and don’t know what to do about it.
I just don’t know — and they will NOT experss their feelings! I’ve already tried that and angered them by asking. That alone is STRANGE. They each were very open before I left, especially son. I do understand he is the most trapped by his father, in spite of what his feelings are. He did move to another city fairly recently and did inform me of his move — but no feelings about it.
Golly, I am rambling — because my thoughts are rambling, including that DD#2 and hubby may have been MANIPULATED into “allowing” father and GF to go to Mexico with them. That’s highly possible but I don’t know!
I guess I should stick to what I know — the need to find a place that would be sfe and secure, especially with my fragile health. BUT, I have investigated many possibilities these past two years and none seem satisfactory — YET
My sisters are out due more to the fact that they are 8 and 11 years OLDER than I am and in worse health than I am.They have their families to help them so I am not “needed” there.
Tami’s mention of her new fabulous husband was a childhood friend. Going back to my hometown might be a very good plan — except … I’ll leave that story to another time. But, I’ll wager that may be where I’ll end up. Many classmates, known since kindergarten, still live there.
Oxy, you asked how I “picked” this place. I didn’t. I think God did! Two days after the last violent act, there was the unused ticket from the previous March to this place in the mail. I immediately packed my suitcase, reactivated the ticket and left!!
As far as my own children not being “friends,” I think you are right. Even the doctor told me that in one of my hospitalizations when the two oldest came, found out I wasn’t on my deathbed, and left abuptly even before I was discharged. He said, “These daughers are not your friends.” I wish he could have explained more.
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Wednesday, 22 July 2009 @ 6:13pm
OxDrover says:
Dear Lily,
I know from my own experience that those “family{” members that you loved and thought loved you, who turn out to really not have your best interest at heart, or who will side with your abuser, or try to “stay neutral” remind me of th epoem “Hangman” where the executioner comes to the town and builds his scaffold, and they are curious who he came to hang, first he hangs this guy, then that, and each time the people think he will then leave town, but his scaffold only grows, finally he has come to hang everyone intown but one man and then he comes for that one man….each of us wait for someone else to be “hung” and never stand up, just glad that someone ELSE is being attacked not us, so maybe that is what your kids are doing. I know it hurts that you gave birth to them and nurtured them and then they have no loyalty or apparent concern for you….maybe your doctor heard something they said or something they said to him. I think he was going out on a limb to tell you this, but I think he DID THE RIGHT THING and you know, I think i would keep that in mind rather than just ahve a “superfiscial” relationship with them. If someone isn’t willing to have a heart to heart or open discussion with you, what have you got anyway? Not much i would think. Just an Acquaintence, not a friend or “family.”
When my egg donor was D & D’d by her Ps, and wanted me back (after D&D-ing me,) I wanted to discuss it with her and she kept saying “NO, I just want to pretend none of this happened and start over”—NO WAY!!!! Let’s be HONEST WITH EACH OTHER OR I DON’T WANT THE SUPERFISCIAL RELATIONSHIP OF “LET’S PRETEND” WE ARE A NICE NORMAL FAMILY.
Whatever you do, dear Lily, be SAFE!!!! (((hugs))) and always my prayers for you dear friend.
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Wednesday, 22 July 2009 @ 6:50pm
Tilly says:
Since I have gone no contact with my parents and my p daughter they have started targeting my youngest kind gentlehearted son. I have thought about stepping back in to the den to deflect their pestering him. Don’t forget he has a p girlfriend too. Although, I wont do anything there, as it will backfire.
Naturally, he is run down and in bad health from the stress of it all. But he is wiser than I was at his age (20). They tell him they have been calling me non stop and that I hang up. They have never called me or emailed me once. But theyre right, i probably would hang up at this stage. He believes them and not me about the phonecalls.
Nothing I can do about it.
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Wednesday, 22 July 2009 @ 6:54pm
Tilly says:
Oxy:
“Kind of like the old “it’s hard to drain the swamp when you are up to your arse in alligators”—” HA HA! LOL!!!!
Matt:
I too would “have sold body parts for my parents to have divorced!”
So good to come here and identify with my own. xoxox
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Wednesday, 22 July 2009 @ 7:08pm
banana says:
He took that information that I told to him in strictest confidence, and spread it all over town.
STBXP said some awful things in his cross motion…lies about my dad and my sexual endeavors (non-existent) as well as private info even my parents don’t know.
I hate that he got back in; that NC was broken. I am feeling sorry ofr him. My heart has opened up. I know it;s not right, but are there any excercises I can use to protect my self again.
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Wednesday, 22 July 2009 @ 7:47pm
Rosa says:
Banana:
I just kept going No Contact until it finally stuck. That is about all I can tell you.
At first, I could not keep the No Contact rule, either.
But, I just kept re-establishing No Contact.
And each time I did it, I was able to make it last a little longer.
Finally, I was free of him. And I was not missing him, and I did not care if I ever heard from him again. And it was great, once I got there.
This is NOT the ideal way to do it. But, even though it wasn’t pretty, that is how I got there.
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Wednesday, 22 July 2009 @ 7:56pm
OxDrover says:
Tilly, I don’t know how you can convince your son that they are lying, but I would just tell him if he brings it up again that they ahve NOT called you but if they did, you WOULD hang up and WHY. Just tell him that you are NC and intend to stay tyhat way because…..”
I know that some people try to think that “blood is thicker than water” but you know, ABUSE is thicker than blood.
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Wednesday, 22 July 2009 @ 8:13pm
henry says:
Expose the lie and the power is gone.
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Wednesday, 22 July 2009 @ 9:14pm
ANewLily says:
Banana, I am so sorry that your private information got spread all over town. I can just mention that other people, once they get the “kick” from gossip, don’t even remember what they heard or at least about whom it was said. Most normal people are more concerned about their own lives — generally anyway.
I feel for you because mine (closer to the end) would blurt out something I had told him in private so all the shoppers could hear. Once I had a crying melt down and embarrassed myself!
The worst one was when he loudly pointed out that my pubic hair was showing IN FRONT OF FIVE OF THE SIX GRANDSONS. They were more embarrassed than me and I was MAD and retreated into the house. (This happened during a family gathering around our backyard pool.)
I have completely gotten over my EX. He doesn’t occupy my thoughts anymore except with the “out of the blue” shenanagans that catch me off guard.
No Contact is the way to go!!!
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Wednesday, 22 July 2009 @ 9:19pm
Tilly says:
pianoman:
HA HA! Thats funny! “prudish women”! Prudish means excessively prim and proper manner! Nup! Aint NEVER met a psychopath thats like one of those! lol! Good one pianoman.
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Wednesday, 22 July 2009 @ 10:13pm
Rosa says:
I think he might be the “lutz” that was on here yesterday.
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Wednesday, 22 July 2009 @ 10:18pm
Tilly says:
Rosa:
We are on the same page sista! xoxoxoxoxoxox
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Wednesday, 22 July 2009 @ 10:28pm
Leah says:
Thanks Matt and Lily,
Not going back to today’s dr. is a given. The only reason I thought about following up with her to clarify the matter was for closure. I’m trying to get better at addressing negative issues at the time they occur rather than being the more passive self that proved to be such a magnet for the vampire. However, I guess it doesn’t make too much sense given that I’ll never see her again.
In any case, I appreciate the feedback and support from both of you and from JAH earlier.
The dr. today did prescribe the anti-emitic I requested. If I continue to have problems, I will of course consult a gastroenterologist.
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Wednesday, 22 July 2009 @ 10:59pm
Leah says:
On a happier note, I recently read a book that I found extraordinarily insightful that be of use to others, Emotional Resiliance by David Viscott. He classifies people into three primary types: dependent, conrolling and competitive. Anyone who has dealt with a Cluster B disorders individual will recognize him or her as an extreme combination of Viscott’s controlling and competitive personality types. So the “what” part of their behavior may be familiar. He goes beyond description to addressing at least some of the “why.”
However, the most valuable aspect of the book to me is the description of the dependent personality. Some of what he writes has been captured eloquently in different form by Kathleen Hawk. Facing the dependent aspects of myself that made me such a walking target has been extremely beneficial.
Dr. Viscott contends that all three types revert to their characteristic defenses when their “toxic nostalgia” for unresolved emotional pain, which refers to as “emotional debt” is triggered. He contends that we build up emotional debt by failing to address and voice negative emotions surrouding painful events when they occur. Anyway, it is worth a read.
It the only book I can think of that I found to be such a revelation.
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Wednesday, 22 July 2009 @ 11:10pm
ANewLily says:
Good going, Leah!
Is it Endthepain who has a court appearance tomorrow? (If I got the person wrong, at least God knows who you are.)
It is almost Thurday. I’ll just remind you what Justafte healed wrote on Tuesday, (at least I think it was her) This wasn’t all of it, but she said, “
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Wednesday, 22 July 2009 @ 11:17pm
ANewLily says:
Unplanned continuation! She said, “just picture yourself walking into court with all of us with dark glasses on, bulked up, ready to protect you, your very own secret service.”
Sorry, I just still more upset about my adult kyds than I thought and this time it isn’t because I can’t find my glasses.
It seems I can’t even type!!
Doesn’t affect my “spirit” that will be with you tomorrow, Endthe pain!! I will be part of your secret servie with the others and will be eager to find out how it turns out.
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Wednesday, 22 July 2009 @ 11:21pm
Leah says:
Yes, good luck to those with upcoming court dates. I remember how harrowing that was. I hope it helps to know you have a number of folks in your virtual corner.
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Wednesday, 22 July 2009 @ 11:25pm
Tilly says:
Leah:
Your ex p would definitely have poisoned the mind of his doctor against you, (as he might need him in court),don’t go there.
Most general practitioner doctors don’t understand what we are going through.
I can’t look at my court documents either. I havn’t been able to look at any kind of court documents since 2002/3. I usually have to get my son to tell me in a sentence where I have to sign after he has ok’d it. Reading any kind of court documents for me is like going on a tour of Hitlers Gas/torture chambers after having been tortured/gassed and barely survived it.I get panic attacks and the works.
I have a lot of physical health problems too, especially digestion.
But I havn’t attended to them yet. I just take over-the-counter pain killers. But i think it makes it worse.
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Thursday, 23 July 2009 @ 2:01am
Tilly says:
Oxy:
” rather than just have a “superficial” relationship with them. If someone isn’t willing to have a heart to heart or open discussion with you, what have you got anyway? Not much i would think. Just an Acquaintence, not a friend or “family.””
OUCH!! This is SO true of me and my middle son. I am still not up to “going there” yet. But its really very obvious whether I like it or not. I have one recent picture of him. When i look at it I see my 12 year old son. Thats sick isn’t it?
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Thursday, 23 July 2009 @ 2:08am
Tilly says:
Oxy:
My son didn’t believe me, so i told him to tell them to ring me as i was worried it was getting to him pretty bad. The P paraplegic rang twice. I couldn’t bring myself to answer or listen to the message either time. My son rang me back later and i said “Yes they did ring but I couldn’t answer it”. He was really disappointed and he thought that they had been calling the whole time and i just hadn’t answered. But he said “don’t worry, it doesn’t matter”. But i could tell it does matter.
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Thursday, 23 July 2009 @ 2:13am
PInow says:
Pianoman, “In a way, sociopaths are like prudish women. If you let them know right away what you want, they’ll leave because they don’t want sex, they want marriage.”
That is IF they want marriage. Mine latched on wanting to feel loved. And delivered. Immediately. And I fell.
Marriage was never in the picture for me, but at one point he thought I fell deeply enough that I would consider. God was with me that day.
(Report abusive comment)
Thursday, 23 July 2009 @ 4:52am
OxDrover says:
Dear Tilly, my first cousin (Uncle Monster’s son) thinks if we would just “talk” we could “work it all out”—of course there is no working it out with a dupe or a P. He just does not get it because he is brought up to “pretend it never happened” and that is the way he has lived his life.
I would just tell him that you cannot answer, if they did ring, and that you have to keep NC that there is no working it out. My cousin doesn’t understand, he probably will never understand, but I cannot let HIS FEELINGS determine my life. repeat: MY LIFE. I spent my entire life doing things for OTHERS and never myself. Your son is an adult now, so though I know you love him, you must do what is BEST FOR YOU and I would be honest with him and tell him that.
He is, if I remember rightly, involved himself with a disordered woman, so he is in the FOG, but him being in teh FOG doesn’t mean you must try to placate him about your own situation.
To me that is the thing, we can’t be living our lives OR FEELING GUILTY that we can’t live them FOR SOMEONE ELSE. Your son is not living his for you, he is with the woman I will be willing to say that he knows you don’t approve of, but yet he wants you to associate with people you can’t trust….see what I mean? We have lived our lives walking on egg shells to place others, and your son picked that up from you, just like my son C did that and married the P woman and walked on egg shells around her for the next nearly 8 years because he thought that is how you lived your life.
My cousin lives that way, but he has NO LIFE. Uncle Monster’s abuse of him and his sibs and mom has “tainted” his view of how a person should behave. He has so much anger inside of him, but it is all so “controlled” and “pushed down.” the only time I have ever seen it explode was one time (not violently) when he realized that HE had my egg donor’s power of attorney (and therefore in his mind was responsible for her) and since I wouldn’t talk to her and “work it out” he was (he felt) stuck with her.
She had given the POA to him when she “didn’t trust me” and I agreed that I would drop the competency hearing if she would let cousin have it, (instead of the P-DIL) which he willingly took—-at that time. But I also realized that I don’t have to VOLUNTEER to take it back, and I won’t. If cousin doesn’t want it, he should tell her and she can get some lawyer to take it as there is no other family close enough or willing to take it. He has the FOG though–but not my problem.
See that is the thing, the FEAR, OBLIGATION and GUILT we assume we MUST have ties us into things we don’t want to do.
My cousin doesn’t want to be POA for my mother, but he has the FOG to hold him in, and he feels it is MY responsibility, but it isn’t. I am NOT obligated to take care of her or see her or anythintg else. She discarded me, devalued me, and now that she has done that, my responsibility is over, there is NONE. It is like a divorce, after the divorce you are NOT responsible for your X’s welfare, or supporting them, or taking care of them, it is a SEPARATION OF RESPONSIBILITIES AND OBLIGATIONS. I am “divorced” from my egg donor, legally and MORALLY.
Frankly, too, it is a RELIEF to look at it that way for me. A parent has NO more legal or MORAL responsibility to care for a kid once they are adults. Sometimes out of love we do so, or help them out etc. Just like my adult sons live here (it is cheaper for them) but it is not my RESPONSIBILITY to let them live here (BTW they pay their fair share of the household expenses too) but it is something that is a benefit to all of us, they save money and I am not living alone with quite so many responsibilities for household care and upkeep as we SHARE those things. It is like I have roommates that I particularly like. BUT, it is MY HOUSE, MY RULES so if they get to where they don’t like my rules, they can pack their kits and move out any day they are not happy here.
YOU HAVE A RIGHT NOT TO BE AROUND ANYONE—REPEAT: ANYONE—THAT YOU DON’T WANT TO BE AROUND FOR ANY REASON. Also, that is a RIGHT. I have a right not to asosciate with my egg donor. and my cousin has NO RIGHT to try to force me. YHour son has NO RIGHT to try to force you either.
This is your test, Tilly, to live your life for YOURSELF, your son is living his life FOR HIMSELF, and it is only right and fair that you do as well. TOWANDA! and don’t feel guilty about it!!!!!! (or I will BOINK you!) ((((hugs)))))
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Thursday, 23 July 2009 @ 6:49am
OxDrover says:
Pianoman,
While tilly was tickled with your “prudish woman” post, I found it a bit offensive, I would call it ia WISE woman who would not put herself at risk for STDS from a promiscious and shallow man who was just looking for a “lay” without any attachments. To me, (in your terms) a Prudish woman, and in my terms a WISE woman, sex is a bonding ritual between two people who love each other and are in a committed relationship (marriage or not) and not sleeping around with others.
However, as far as letting a psychopath know what you want and then them moving on down the line, I am afraid I don’t agree with that either. It isn’t JUST in romantic or sexual relationships that we encounter these BEINGS. they are at our jobs, they are our neighbors, business partners, co-workers, lawyers, physicians and the cop who stops you for speeding. Sometimes the psychopath is your mother, father, brother, sister or best friend. Many times, all they “want” is control of the situation and to see you squirm on that “control” like a bug on a pin.
Plus, many times, and especially in a romantic situation, they PRETEND and FAKE that they want the same thing we do—a committed relationshiip. Then when we are hooked, they set the BARB! and we are on the line like a fish with a trebble hook sunk down his gullet. It is possible to get off, but it is oh, so painful, and sometimes rips our guts out!
I wish it WAS as “simple” as letting them know what you want and if they dont’ want that they move on, or if they think they can’t get that, they move on….but it isn’t all that simple, unfortunately.
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Thursday, 23 July 2009 @ 7:18am
Leah says:
Thanks for the post Tilly. Yes, the OTC pain meds might be upsetting your stomache further. That has been my experience. It may worth adding “doctor” as a category to the referal guide.
I really am a loss as to how much to explain. I guess I’ll just assume the “professional” will not understand no matter what I say and focus on the outcome – ie. getting what I think is a reasonable Rx or other treatment.
Oxdrover, I thought you had said not to feed the animals.
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Thursday, 23 July 2009 @ 10:13am
2MUCH2TAKE says:
Hello Everyone~ I’ve just been catching up on all the blogs. It sure helps to read it all. It seems as though we all have “health issues”. Unbelievable. We have to love ourselves and take care of US first.
Some of the reading is funny. Loved the spath-a hole comment!
Matt, you seem to be able to cut through the mindf—, and see it for what it is. I wish I were that adept. Hopefully, we all will evolve to that point.
I am still riding the fence with the NC. My S sent me an e-mail today~ he said I would welcome death to get out of this rotton place. That is all it said. Made me feel guilty. I am sick and on antibiotics and cough medicine and weak. Probably from all the stress lately. My bully sister sent me an e-mail that I didn’t open. My friend got the same one and told me about it. You know, the “I’m so glad you are in my life and you are so important to me b.s. I wonder if she felt that way the day she beat the tar out of me!! Still, no apology, no call, BUT her birthday is tomorrow!! Timely e-mail huh? I have not talked to her at all Oxy. And I will not call her tomorrow or send a card or anything. She is dead to me!
We are warriors!! Fighting for our own cause!! Towanda peeps, thanks for all the words of wisdom. God Bless, 22.
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Friday, 24 July 2009 @ 11:10pm
Tilly says:
OXY:
I only just read this page now…NO WAY WAS I “TICKLED PINK”! with this comment!!! ” good one” in oz means, “yeah good on yu yu bloody idiot!!”
I am a feminist through and through (but that had nothing to do with it), I immediately spotted the p and I couldn’t believe others were actually believing “it”. So I thought i would “bring “it” out into the light. Rosa saw it too ( “we are on the same page sista”) remeber?
Thankyou for your advice in regard to my son. You are completely right and i have taken it onboard and doing precisely what you said. The only pain I feel to do it is in relation to my son. It is a pleasure to do it otherwise.
Leah:
I have added “doctor” to my referral guide!! lol! thankyou! But again, I have a lot of trouble confessing to general practitioner doctors how physically ill I am. My mother was the only one allowed to be sick for so long!
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Saturday, 25 July 2009 @ 2:46am
OxDrover says:
Dear Tilly,
Thanks for explaining that, that’s the problem with different versions of “english” and slang–I didn’t get the sarcasam there. Because sarcasm is many times very hard to detect in the written word, I try to be very very CLEAR on it and make sure it is something everyone will get, so I put a “NOT!!” after it or (joke) after the sarcasam so no one wisll mistake it for the way I really think or feel.
Also, LEAH NAILED ME “She said (obviously getting what he was as I did) “Oxy I thought you said “don’t feed the animals”) THANKS LEAH!!! BOINK ME WITH THE CYBER SKILLET!!!!! You are aso right!!!!
On the “being sick”—the stress does take a number on our bodies as well as our minds, and the stress hormones long term do our bodies in for sure, so be extra kind to yourself if possible, sleep well, eat well, and rest up. I know you will have a stressful semester but try to just keep it together where she is concerned and that will help to keep the stress down. I tisn’t something you can “control” so just keep chanting that “I can’t control the b1atch, but I can control my reactions” Maybe that will help ((((hug)))))
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Saturday, 25 July 2009 @ 9:11am
OxDrover says:
DEAR LEAH:
YOU NAILED ME!!! “BOINK” on OXY’s well deserved head!!!! Thank you, sweetie, I absolutely deserved that BOINK!!! for engabing in FEEDING THE ANIMALS.
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Saturday, 25 July 2009 @ 9:14am
ANewLily says:
Tilly, I really really identified with your statement Thursday “Reading any kind of court documents for me is like going on a tour of Hitlers Gas/torture chambers after having been tortured/gassed and barely survived it.I get panic attacks and the works.”
I’ve encountered lots of physical health problems, too, even before I escaped, but when you mentioned, “especially digestion,” I may have a suggestion. At my first visit to an enterologist yesterday, he gave me “Align” for my digestion problems. I think it is available OTC.
After just two days of use, I can’t vouch for its efficacy but on the Internet there were many positive comments. He gave me free samples to last two weeks so I have no idea how much they cost.
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Saturday, 25 July 2009 @ 1:08pm
ANewLily says:
Tilly, just another thought. I’ll bet if you can conquer your digestion problems at least, you may be able to handle the next semester better with your teacher (is that what she is?)
For myself I know how very very difficult it is to control negative emotions or be cheerful when my stomach hurts!!
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Saturday, 25 July 2009 @ 1:32pm
Tilly says:
ANewLily:
It really is best to keep all court documents and related reading well away from your area of living space…I am serious. Outtasight outtamind. When you HAVE to look at them, then try and have someone you trust emotionally with you. They don’t have to know you are even looking at them, but it helps somehow.I still can’t hold the folio of documents, without having a panic attack ! (i.e.for all my court proceedings). Even the ones from years ago. I experience panic first, then immense grief and finally, later on in the day, anger, before it will subside. Of course the underlying emotion through out all of that is FEAR. I could never have been a solicitor hey!
Kathy is probably the one to talk to about strategies to deal with that. My basic solution is just not to “go there ” unless I am absolutely FORCED to and then, never alone. ( I only have my son to help me with this one). But all the papers are well out of reach, so that i don’t “come across” them in my daily routine.
At least you are ATTENDING to the business of your HEALTH! I congratulate you on that! Next time i am at my doctor ( hmmm I know…and WHEN will that be?? (never)) I will ask about “Align”.
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Saturday, 25 July 2009 @ 1:32pm
Tilly says:
Oxy:
I was using sarcasm with Elton, and others, because i didn’t want him to see I was supplying Narcissistic supply on purpose.
But you are right it is hard to use irony on sms and blog. It does cause miscommunication – often.
2MUCH2TAKE:
I am so PROUD of you for not opening bully sisters EMAIL! I hope you deleted it. If you did delete it, then you are WAY stronger than me and YOU ARE MY HERO!! xoxox
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Saturday, 25 July 2009 @ 1:37pm
Tilly says:
2much2take:
One day in the future, you and i wont open the S’s email either!
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Saturday, 25 July 2009 @ 1:40pm
ANewLily says:
Oh, Tilly, I already have all the documents “hidden” in a large plastic tub at the bottom of a closet that I rarely use. I agree, good plan! At first, about 2005, I almost just dumped them all in the trash. Luckily, I have only “had” to consult any of the papers in it about 3 times a year. But each time it took about 3 days to recover from the trauma of it.
I live alone and I have no one to help me. I’m so glad you have your son!!
I don’t think you need a doctor’s recommendation for Align. I’ll sign off and call my local pharmacist and ask her and get back to you, ok?
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Saturday, 25 July 2009 @ 1:44pm
ANewLily says:
Tilly, for sure you don’t need a doctor’s recommendation, my pharmacist said. It is in every pharmacy on the shelf with the Tums, etc. She said it is a fairly new product but she’s noticed many doctors have been recommending it lately.
Problem — it is rather expensive, about $30 for 28 tablets.
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Saturday, 25 July 2009 @ 1:58pm
Tilly says:
ANewLily:
Thankyou!! I will look for it today in our local Aussie Chemist. xo
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Saturday, 25 July 2009 @ 3:00pm
2MUCH2TAKE says:
Thanks Tilly! And yes I did delete it!! Wooo-hoooo!! And I also deleted her from my cell phone!! It is going to be harder to not open the S’s e-mails. He has never hit me. Not once in 20 yrs. Just lied like a rug, threw me under the bus for his drug habit, humiliated me with other women. THAT’S ALL!! LOL. When am I gonna get it? Maybe I need the skillet!! LOL.
He built a new house. He started getting Parents magazine! You know the subscription. I was like: Why are you getting this? He said, Oh they probably send it to all new home builders. That was about a year ago. THEN, last month when I was there, I looked at his mailbox and he had an e-mail that said~ How is your 14 month old doing? In the subject box. I about had a twinkie. He denies knowing anything about it. Says, his enemy sister in law probably did it to cause trouble between him and I. Who the heck knows. There are to many things that “just happen” to give the benefit of the doubt. But with my bargaining and denial skills I still have that thread that it might not be true. Skillet Please?
I hope everyones GI gets better. I hate it when my guts hurt. Well, I guess it’s like getting your guts ripped out dealing with all this mindf——. Someday we will look back and say” Wow, look how far I’ve come”.
I don’t know who said it but the part about showing up in court for moral support with dark sunglasses and big dudes was a wonderful focal idea to not get to nervous. I loved it.
Bye peeps, have a good Sat. I’ll be on later I’m sure. I don’t have a life!!
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Saturday, 25 July 2009 @ 6:19pm
Tilly says:
2MUCH2TAKE:
Wooo-Hooo!! TOWANDA!! YOUARE MY HERO FOR DELETING HER OUT OF YOUR LIFE!! YOU GO GIRL!!
And BTW 22, I DO have a life but I prefer to come here (I’m in class right now!)lol!
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Saturday, 25 July 2009 @ 6:30pm
TNewman says:
I just started writing tonight about how I feel. I thought it might help to just beat it out on my keyboard. Please don’t interpret this as my intention to harm anyone…I could never do that and have no desire to spend the rest of my life in prison but I thought I’d share my story and ask if any of you can relate to the way I feel. Or, am I’m truly losing my mind?
Identity Theft
Every morning, I wake up thinking that today will be different. I’ll spend my day doing something that I enjoy, something that makes me happy, something that makes me feel good. And, it’s always the same. Maybe I’ll work on the house…no…no sense in doing that yet…can’t afford the materials to finish it. I’ve always hated half-ass work. Maybe I’ll start the book I’ve always wanted to write…the one about my crazy life filled with various abusers and suicides…but does anyone really care? Who would it benefit? Do I really want to tell it all? How would people interpret it? They’ll feel I want pity and God knows that’s the last thing I want.
Then, I wonder what happened to me? What happened to that confident woman that was once the life of the party with the outgoing personality that everyone loved? The one who was always ready for adventure and welcomed new challenges? Why do I have no desire to interact with people anymore? What happened to my drive, my energy, my will? People close to me who knew some of the adversities I had dealt with in my lifetime once openly admired my guts, my lack of bitterness despite many unjust circumstances, and my upbeat positive attitude. Where did I go?
I always arrive at the same conclusion. I allowed one person to reduce me to the point of existing rather than actually living…a person that no longer matters to me and never will. Frankly, I wouldn’t care if he was dead. I’ve never felt that way about anyone. Somehow, I feel that if he was dead, I could be a whole person again. Is it because he killed me? But how did he do it? I’m still alive but did he take part of my soul in an attempt to gain one for himself…the one that he never had? I could never harm anyone…not even him…but if I learned he’d passed on…I’d feel that God had forced the devil to release the part of me he stole. After all, I was only a possession and everyone knows the old saying about not being able to take what one has with them when they die. He is holding my dignity, my integrity, my self-esteem, my wit, my will to exist, and far too much of my knowledge…a true case of identity theft. There’s not even a law to punish him.
He left me with the one thing that he never wanted…my heart…and I use it to love the kindest and most gentle man I’ve ever known…a man that deserves ALL of me including the parts that were stolen from me. How do I get those parts back? Can they be regained? How do I replenish the pieces of my character that it took years to develop? This thief that stole these things from me doesn’t even need. He’s stolen these same things from many others before and continues to do so today. But, I need to be a whole person again and wake up every morning feeling that I still have something to left to give. Is my heart REALLY enough?
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Tuesday, 28 July 2009 @ 9:57pm
OxDrover says:
Dear Tami,
That is BEAUTIFULLY PUT!!!! Yes, my dear I can relate, and my guess is (no crystal ball but I ibet I’m right!) that almost everyone here can relate.
The only thing you are describing though, is that I think you are still showing signs of either depression or PTSD (the lack of interest ini projects, things, goals, etc.) and I do suggest that if that is the case, that you get checked out for possible antidepression medication and/or some therapy.
Believe me, Tami, being a “professional” I sure as heck felt HORRIBLE on the WRONG SIDE OF THE CLIP BOARD. I was supposed to GIVE support, not for goodness sakes NEED IT.
WHAT WAS I THINKING? If anyone in the world NEEDED THERAPY and support it was me, while I was taking care of everyone else’s needs, no one, not even me, even noticed that I “vanished” before their eyes, that the REAL ME was an illusion. How could I take care of others when I couldn’t take care of me?
The encounter(s) with the psychopath(s) wounds us in many ways, not just financial, not just emotional, or mentally or physically, I even lost the ONE THING COULD ALWAYS COUNT ON, MY MIND!! My total recall, my instant wit, my ability to read fast with great comprehensiion, my ability to make judgments, solve problems…ME—GONE!
Between LF and therapy and pharmasutials, support and love, and ONE TIRED FOOT BEFORE THE OTHER when I didn’t want to get out of bed, I am not only ME now, but a better, truer, stronger, and WISER woman now. I still CRS (can’t remember stuff) but I can LAUGH about that now, and my friends and sons tell me “oh, that was soooo funny, the first five times you told it!” AND WE LAUGH NOT CRY.
I’m not “hibernating” and I’m not “isolating”–I am picking and choosing who I spend my prescious TIME with—I spend time with ME, I spend time with God, I spend time with those I love and that love me. I blog, I e mail, I spend time with my animals, I cuss the weather, I cook, I leave the dishes, I garden, but don’t always bother pulling the weeds if I don’t feel like it. I mow the yard, when I want to and don’t worry if I don’t want to. I walk, I run, I laugh, and sometimes I even cry—but each day I try to take time to see one spot of beauty, one funny thing, get a HUG from everyone I see and thank God for my blessings! Your post above is one of those blessings, Tami—thank you.
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Tuesday, 28 July 2009 @ 11:07pm
PInow says:
thank you for sharing this, TNewman. Your post really touched me. you are a beautiful spirit and there is more, abundantly more energy for us to tap into to rebuilt ourselves. the vampires have no access to this (Godly) energy, so they prey on others. I think the real, beating heart is enough to give you the strength to go on and rebuild yourself as so many have done before us and sadly – more will do after us.
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Tuesday, 28 July 2009 @ 11:09pm
henry says:
TNewman You are a gifted writer. You expressed yourself with such clarity. You have enough heart for anybody. I am right there with you as how you feel so empty and depleted. How can one individual take so much of us with them when they leave? I try to reconcile it to my dysfunctional childhood. I tell myself it was because I had no boundaries or selfworth and I invited bad people into my life, and knowing all these things now will prevent me from inviting another soul sucking vampire into my life. But what do I do about this last vampire, the one that has thankfully moved on but taken more part’s of me than I realized. Today I have been deep down and was avoiding posting, but thought I would come in and read a bit, that usually helps , and here is your post, expressing my mood. I am tired of feeling this way…
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Tuesday, 28 July 2009 @ 11:36pm
henry says:
ps. TNewman – of all the ways two people can part ways, sometime death is the kindest…Write that book TNewman I will read it…
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Tuesday, 28 July 2009 @ 11:42pm
ANewLily says:
Ditto to EVERYTHNG Oxy and Henry said. I, too, can relate!
I, too, will read your book — and maybe someday you can read mine? It’s true, you are a very gifted writer as Henry stated.
Sorry, Henry, you are feeling so down. I just tapped you with my magic wand — POOF, bad feelings gone?
I am having very few down days now. I think God gave me these past 5 months of total inactivity — and PHYSICAL, not emotionL pain — to recover my lost self. Sure had lots of time for introspection – and intercessory prayer!
I just got home from the pharmacy and grocery store and I truly felt I was my “old” cheerful, outgoing self! It felt so GOOD. The clerks have become “friends” and even remember my name! I told the pharmacist that I have been feeling so invisible that her calling me by my name – and recognizing me — felt so rejuvenating. I think (know) she understood. That felt good, too.
Remember, that I have already been “out” for more than 7 years and it’s been about 4 years since the “end” of the unexpected nasty divorce JUNK. I’ve had more time to recover than you guys have. You’ll get there!
And realistically, I know I’ll have some slipbacks. We can guard each other’s backs, okay?
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Wednesday, 29 July 2009 @ 12:17am
Jeff says:
I know something of what he’s feeling. I have nightmares nearly every night and have been sleep-deprived long term. My health has been going downhill since June of 2008, when she decided she wanted out.
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Wednesday, 29 July 2009 @ 12:43am
ANewLily says:
Sorry, I meant to add PInow on my DITTO comment to TNewman. I’m too tired to add more — way past my bedtime!
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Wednesday, 29 July 2009 @ 1:32am
TNewman says:
Thanks for everyone’s feedback and support. I reread the piece this morning and had an “Urkel” moment: “Did I write THAT?!” I’m actually feeling better this morning but yes, I have setbacks from time to time. I enjoy writing and appreciate those of you who feel that I have some talent in the area. Writing serves as a great release for me. Your compliments were very kind.
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Wednesday, 29 July 2009 @ 7:36am
OxDrover says:
Dear Jeff,
Sleep deprivation and the night mares that cause them are a part of PTSD many times, and also depression. I’m not sure what your “story” is/was so only what you said about her leaving a year ago. When someone we care about leaves or dies, we have a normal grief process (at the very least) and if the loss was traumatic we may experience severe depression and/or PTSD. I suggest that if you are having a severe problem with these night mares and sleep deprivation, that you seek medical and psychological evaluation and treatment for this as soon as possible.
Stress caused by grief, PTSD, or other severe trauma cause many physical and psychological changes that are in the main not healthy. Take care of yourself first. God bless.
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Wednesday, 29 July 2009 @ 9:42am
JaneSmith says:
Hey there, you wonderful people!
Just wanted to add a little help to the gastro problems some of you are suffering from. The best remedy for heartburn, nausea, lack of hunger is that most wondrous of wonder drugs–Prilosec.
Trust me, believe me I would never push any type of drugs on anyone but my older sister is the one who recommended it to me when I suffered acute acid indigestion, vomiting and I was only able to stuff a few pieces of bread down my throat.
I was so sick and with my full blown high anxiety, it just made it worse. This all happened about 4 years ago and after taking the Prilosec for about 3 months, all the gastro problems vanished. Gone and I was able to eat solids, normal food.
And, Matt, Prilosec does the same thing as Nexium maybe even better and it’s also a heck of a lot cheaper.
I also had irritable bowel syndrome and Prilosec cured me of that also. I love those meds and there aren’t any side effects to worry about.
Now, I eat rather well. No probs and if I start to have heartburn or gas I go buy Prilosec. It IS a wonder drug.
Hope this helps!!
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Wednesday, 29 July 2009 @ 11:06am
cutandrun says:
Hi all,
I am new here. Not sure what to say by means of an introduction. I have been reading here for a few weeks, I wasn’t sure what to say about my situation, and not sure where on the forum to jump in – but really want to give it a try so here goes.
I am 42, married with 2 teens, daughter and son. They are not S/P. But I have been on the Crazy Train twice now with two S’s, one about 7 years ago, for a little over a year, and one that was for just 12 weeks or so, and have been NC since May 12. I will try to keep the details brief (I tend to get wordy) because I know all of you know this story already.
My hesitation has to do also with that I know my story (or stories) really pales in comparison to what most of you have gone through in your lives. I was never sexually abused in any way, but my dad was very emotionally abusive (though not an S) I’m sure he has some kind of PD. Haven’t figured that one out yet. And my mom was the enabler in that, and while I was in high school she became an alcoholic. And by emotionally abusive, he had a horrible raging temper and would scream at us for something just about every day. And he would physically strike out, this more directed at my brother, who didn’t learn like I did to stay out of the way. Though I never did know when I might get smacked in the head or slapped or kicked in the butt, which to him passed as discipline. I think now that most of his emotions all convert to anger and rage, which I’ve heard can be physically addicting when that anger is vented.
My parents are still very much in my life, in fact they gave us a piece of land and we live next door to them. Dad’s anger is no longer directed at us as much now that we are adults (yes my brother lives just up the road also), and also there are now a son in law and daughter in law and grandchildren in the mix so he has learned to behave better. But it still breaks out now and then.
It’s only been through this second experience with a sociopathetic that my veneer’s have been stripped off (thanks to whoever wrote that article/post) and I am taking full inventory of myself to sort through why this happens to me and how to keep it from happening again.
I should say from the start that I have probably the most loving, caring, and supportive husband anyone has ever had. We have been married for 23 years. But, it hasn’t always been this good. This is a new thing due to S #2, who caused both of us to dig down to the bottom of our own barrels and figure out what’s been hanging out in there, getting putrid and rancid, and how to clean it out.
See, I chose my husband based on what my parents wanted. We were raised in a particular religious background/community – and only the right person would do for them. I had been disciplined (read smacked) on other occasions for dating the wrong people, but I desperately wanted to get out of the house – though I was afraid to at the same time. Does that make any sense? I didn’t go to college, cause I was so afraid to (though I was valedictorian)(I got good grades to avoid wrath). So all the kids my age went off to school, and there were 3 single guys left in my church, and I pursued the one I wanted. There are more details to this, but I’ll cut to the chase and say that because I have always been such a needy, dependant person, my GH (good husband) always had kind of a “pull back” reaction, and would spend a lot of time away from me doing other things – fishing, working side jobs, going to the gym, etc…which in themselves are good things to do, but he did them to the exclusion of me. So I learned to become independant myself, and took up my own activities – my horse, gardening, sewing, baking – and then the kids came along, and all this just got ratcheted up a notch.
To anyone else, nothing would seem amiss here. My mom would say, it’s so nice that GH has fishing as a hobby – so he can relieve his stress. In reality, GH was possibly THE most passive person in the world, and hardly had any personal stress – very laid back, very kind to others, if you hit him with your truck he would get up (or say from his position on the ground) are YOU OK? And, given the beliefs of the Christian community we were in – such a huge value is placed on contentment, I stuffed whatever complaints I had and made myself thankful that he wasn’t like my father.
Bring on S#1. I was doing home daycare at the time. This guy was a single dad, new to our church, and needed daycare for his 3 yr old boy. Again, I will try to be brief cause you all know how this goes. Initially, I was his God-send. Lively conversations every day at drop off and pick up. I have an interest in Theology and he wanted to become a pastor. I was brilliant, I answered all his questions. Then, conversations everyday were not enough, he was emailing me every night. What do you know, I developed feelings for this guy – and decided to tell him in a note. He was happy! Not the reaction I expected. And it wasn’t happy because he loved me too. Well, he did, the word flew around like confetti, but no parade – always qualifying it to be only in the “Christian” sense, but just thinly veiled enough to give me hope. I now see that my feelings gave him ammunition. He could play me like a fish. I suddenly became not so brilliant. He could use my shame to verbally slap me. I would withdraw, not speak. He would woo me back. I’d express feelings. He’d slap me down. Rinse, repeat.
I became depressed. I already had some depression, that was under control, but now it got worse, and I had my first and only manic period. I started composing poetry. Compulsively. I could bang out a 10 stanza poem with perfect rhyme and meter in about 10 minutes. I couldn’t sleep – I would sneak out of bed around 12, get on the computer, answer emails, write poems stay up until 2 or 3 in the morning, go back to bed, wake up at 6, and still feel like I had 12 cups of coffee. I went back to my psychiatrist. Of course, I told her nothing of this guy. She prescribed an anti-psychotic.
Then a younger, single girl in the church dropped her finance. I was chopped liver. Dropped like a rock. I suddenly also realized this pattern of behavior with me. So I told my husband. He had words with S#1. But being very passive, it was all, thank you for not taking advantage of my wife, we can still be friends, blah blah. And the next day, S#1 calls me up and says “nothing has changed, my feelings are the same” WHAM! Baseball bat to my head. I sent him an angry letter. S#1 printed out every email we had ever written and gave to my GH as proof of his innocence and my guilt (supposedly). We got church involved. He left the church. But then, for almost another year, would drive by our house almost daily – when there was no need for him to do that.
I was suddenly relieved of most of my depression and manic behavior. I went back to Psychiatrist, who told me if I hadn’t made any improvement by this appointment, she was going to admit me to the Phych ward. Gulp. Oh yeah, his pity play was that he was bravely fighting for custody of his son from his drug addicted mother, who refused to pay him child support. In this way he won over the whole church. From us he got at least a couple free meals a week, eventually free day care, and a loan. And the freedom to play with my mind. He even suggested that we turn our basement into an apartment for him. He did eventually pay back the loan, but told us to sue the mother for day care expenses.
Obviously, I did not do the work and learn the lesson from this. Fast forward to the present. I was contacted on FB by a guy I had met over 25 years ago when I was 15. Friend of a friend, we exchanged phone #’s, but I was not allowed to date him as my dad pitched a hissy fit because he was Catholic. So he finds me on FB and we enjoy exchanging notes on the past. He was also married, for the same amount of time, with two kids, same as us. We became FB friends and started IMing in the evenings and mornings. You know this story. Only this time, when I expressed feelings, those feelings were returned. Right. He lived(s) in the same town. So we met once in a parking lot. We made out like we were teens again. But eventually, my body/mind told me it could not cope with this level of adulterous deception, and one day at work I passed out. I told S#2 about it, and we met again the next day. It had been 4 weeks since our first meeting. (He had not suggested any more meetings, but his IM’s and emails were getting more and more intense.) I was giving him one last chance to try and make this something I could “live” with, something to help me carry on. Epic fail!! We made out again. Tell me what you think was really behind the following things he said: “Do you know what I would do to you?” “I will always be RIGHT HERE” (both whispered in my ear) “I am making a list of my favorite things about you — one of them is, you do tend to get quite sassy with me” And the piece de resistance “will you be there for me when I get home from work tonight (meaning on computer).
Of course I said I would. And I was. But he was nowhere to be found. I checked compulsively all night.
I decided then that you do not get a second chance to play with my mind. I broke it off with him, though at this point I still knew nothing about Sociopaths, and it was more of a process since I didn’t know the value of NC. And I confessed to my GH, who so wonderfully sat by me for a whole weekend while I cried. And for quite a few more days after that. I missed him so much. While we were “together” everything else in my life had faded to black and white. I fell for all the flattery and attention. He even seemed interested in Theology and horses. Well, I could have told him I was interested in the migratory patterns of earthworms, and he would have thought it was fascinating.
It wasn’t until a few weeks later that I happened to see the TV show with Danielle Steele where she talked about her new book about a sociopath. WHAM! Another baseball bat to the head. I did some computer research – found this forum, and everything makes sense now. Both guys fit all the criteria to a T. It was liberating, fascinating, and frightening all at once.
And now that I realize that in both instances I was a victim, I have been able to pry the lid off of all the stuff inside of me that has kept me vulnerable. When I confessed S#2 to my GH, I was SO ANGRY. I was still ready to run away with S#2, if he would have come to get me. (I invited him to do so at least 3 times – he would not). I was angry with GH, angry w/ my parents, angry at the church (we had just been through a bad situation at church because I believe (now) that the pastor is a Narcissist) angry with my whole life that I felt had kept me under it’s thumb and like a 12 year old. But, surprisingly, not yet angry with S#2.
I have come so far, we have come so far, GH & I, but I still struggle. Struggle with missing S#2, which then makes me upset with myself. Struggling that something that only lasted a few months could still keep me struggling. Struggling with feeling like life is boring and empty without the drama. That I don’t love GH enough, for as much as he has endured with me, supported me, has changed for me. He now admits that he put everything and everyone else in his life ahead of me. And now I am number 1. And now he is not afraid of me, like he was before. We both thought that whatever we had was as good as it was gonna get. I still struggle with, will I be strong enough if S#2 makes another attempt to contact me. He still lives nearby. We could run into each other at Stuffmart.
So there’s my story. Sorry it is so long. But I am sure whatever anyone might have to say about it will be extremely helpful. And maybe I will be able to help someone else.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 29 July 2009 @ 11:15am
OxDrover says:
Dear cutandrun,
I’m glad you are here at LF, this is a healing place. It starts out I think about THEM but ends up being about US—why we were vulnerable. Thank you for having the courage to be so honest. I know that self revelation of things we are not proud of is difficult for me to do, and I can only assume it was for you as well.
I live in a farming community (though I was gone for years but returend a little over 20 years ago) My egg donor (mother) lives on the same farm. she is supportive of my son, a psychopath, incarcerated now for murder, and last year he tried to have me killed.
I have been in and out of relationships with psychopaths many times, inside and outside the family, however, I realize NOW something I never realized before is that the same “religious conformity” to my egg donor’s belief system (actually her deity is a psychopathic controlling angry deity who is just waiting for you to sin so he can punish you). I too wanted away from home after high school at any cost, and I too tried to have the kind of life my egg donor thought was “right” and to “keep the family secrets” about the abusive members of the family. “What the neighbors thought” was THE most important thing in the world to our family and anyone who exposed the dark underbelly of the family would be severely punished.
Only NOW that I see the “reasons” I was tolerant of abusive relationships and behavior have I been able to “fix” myself.
I have depression, for which i am being treated (I am a retired mental health and medical professional myself) and PTSD as well. I hope you will continue to receive appropriate treatment for your condition (I am assuming since you mentioned mania episode that it is bi-polar).
There is a great deal of information here on the medical and scientific research that has been done on both psychopathy and how it sometimes goes along with bi-polar and/or ADHD. Not that I am saying you are paychopathic, not at all, but it would account for your father’s abusive behavior, and is possible that he ALSO has bi-polar and/or psychopathic genetics. I have a son who is a psychopath (my sperm donor iwas a huge psychopathic beast, though he did not raise me) and my egg donor a big time enabler from a LONG LINE OF ENABLING WOMEN, and her brother was a psychopath that I also believe was bi-polar. I have a son who is very ADHD, but is a good man and not psychopathic at all, though I have worked with kids who were very ADHD AND exhibited psychopathic type behavior of gleeflully destroying and or abusing people or things.
I suggerst that you read and read and read here, all the old articles that are archived, they are a wonderful education in both psychopathy, science, and healing. We cannot change the psychopaths, but we can change our reaction to them. We can shore ujp our own strengths and KNOWLEDGE=POWER. We can take back our power for our lives, for our destenies.
While your husband’s behavior doesn’t sound abusvie in the commonly held manner, none the less, it does not sound very supportive and fulfilling to your either. I hope that he is as good a man as you state he is and that maybe with some counseling you two can craft a much better marriage for you as a couple, rather than just “room mates.
We all learn ways to cope with painful situations, like you learned to cope by ’staying out of the way” of your raging abusive father, and by marrying someone that they “approved of” from your church, then settling into the “family compound” and keeping up the pretense that your was a “nice normal family” in spite of the major abuse adn alcoholism, using, of course, the “church” for a mask to cover up what was really going on. I can SO RELATE to this.
Sitting in a church doesn’t make someone a Christian any more than sitting in a chicken house makes you a chicken, or allows you to lay eggs. I have been raised with this FALSE religiosity of people going to church 3 X a week, but living like SATAN behind closed doors—as long as the neighbors don’t know the truth, everything is “lovely.” NOT!!! It is only now that I have confronted the problem within myself, my tendency to KEEP the peace, (by HHIDING THE TRUTH) rather than MAKE peace by TELLING THE TRUTH, that I am now able to not only heal, but to have a TRUE SPIRITUALITY and relationship with a loving God vs the “religiosity” I had previously with the psychopathic “deity” who was sitting up there in the skies ready to zap me with a lightening bolt and send me to hell if I didn’t continue to keep my mouth shut about the abuse within our family. To send me to hell if I didn’t “pretend the abuse didn’t happen.”
It turned my whole world upside down, and I am now no contact with my egg donor though we live on the same farm, I no longer attend that “church” and I no longer pretend all is well, and I AM working on my own healing. I did what the Bible commands us about “if thou have ault against a brother” and confronted the psychopaths and their enablers, then I went back with witnesses, and then I went to the “church”—or tried to at least, but no one would listen….I am in the process of going to the church again in one more attempt, because if my egg donor keeps sending my P-off spring money, it is endangering my life. He has tried to kill me once, and will try again if he has the resources (money).
I’m glad you are here, this is a healing site with tons of great information for educating you about them and about ourselves. good luck and GOD BLESS YOU in your healing walk. He has blessed me by a wonderful and loving care and I am so grateful! (Hugs))))
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 29 July 2009 @ 12:17pm
cutandrun says:
Thanks OxDrover, My psych has suspected bi-polar in me, but I haven’t had any further manic episodes. In fact, now I haven’t seen my psych in about 5 years, I have been quite stable on my regular meds.
Yes, it is more about US than them. I appreciated someone’s comment or article about how we cannot blame the S’s for existing any more than we can blame the sun for giving us a sunburn. I like that analogy. That’s why I want to sort this all out to make sure I can spot them in the future.
I had to get over bucket loads of personal guilt over both these situations being adulterous on my end, giving myself the big fat Scarlett Letter. but even GH says it was NOT my fault. There was no other reaction I could have had in the state I was in as so extremely vulnerable.
Yes with my folks it has always been about image. Nobody could find out about my mother drinking as my dad was an elder in the church (cough) and they’d make him step down.
And yes I am very skeptical of church people now. We are in a “new”church, but still with my folks and brother’s family. I do not hate my folks, I know they were only doing the best they could with what they had, emotionally, emotional constipation, handed down by their folks etc.. Most of the time we get along quite well.
Before this I always felt solely responsible for holding down the fort. I handled everything – housework, cooking, shopping, family finances, kid’s schedules, family relationships i.e. dealing with parents and inlaws, and my own job outside the home. Hubby was only responsible for working, eating, sleeping, and whatever else he had time for (which wasn’t much) so then he would fit in fishing and firewood. So it was me against the world. S#2 finally broke this camel’s back.
Now I have GH on my team, and it is such a relief. I have told him all my childhood memories, and am amazed that he has never heard them from me before. (what I can remember, some stuff is fuzzy and I deliberately forget I think) And now he sees how I was what I was and can stand by me and help me to become who I really am.
I am not angry with God. So much of everything that happened was a God thing that helped me to get out of both messes. If we don’t listen when we read the Bible, He is going to find a way to tell you outright. We are finally taking the old giant band-aid off and cleaning out the whole infection. Whatever part of this can be attributed to my sin, or the sin of others, He is using as a tool for redemption.
So I should be really happy right? Sigh— I wish it were that easy…….but I am getting stronger day by day.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 29 July 2009 @ 12:42pm
OxDrover says:
Dear Cutandrun,
It sounds to me like you are starting to clean out this festering sore, but I found that the infection and corruption was so DEEPLY in my egg donor and her FAKE religiosity and in the fact that so many people believed her, invalidated me, had NO “Christian” empathy for me, didn’t believe a word I said, and believed every lie out of her mouth….it made it hard. But I DID FIND GOOD OUT OF IT, I quit being “religious” and became SPIRITUAL and not FAKE, I no longer HID THE “SHAME” of my Psychopathic son’s evil, or of my egg donor’s EVIL enabling eit6her. I found that unless you towed the family line of “we are all wonderful people” that you would be severely punished. I have a feeling if you told the good people of your church that your father was/is an abuser and your mother a drunk that you would be SEVERELY PUNISHED by your family for “airing the dirty linen” in public and causing the family “shame.” The SHAME is and should not be OURS, but the evil-doers’ shame. Yet, we, the victims are the ones “shamed” with TOXIC SHAME (google that one) and we are REQUIRED to cover up the evil deeds of our abusers. the fact that your dad has “toned it down” now is beside the point. Has he ever repented, TRULY repented by ACKNOWLEDGING his prior bad behavior, saying and ACTING repentent for it, trying to make up for it—my guess is NOT.
Has he ever stood up and acknowledged his sins to others in the church, or has he continued to hide them under his cloak as an “elder”? If you read the Biblical “requirements” of an “elder” you will see I think that your father does NOT fit that portrait painted of a caring and wise man, who has compassion and love in his heart. So, he was FAKING his “position”—wearing the MASK of a good man, while doing evil. HIPOCRIT just like the pharisees that Jesus dealt with who ultimately had Him crucified for telling the TRUTH about their evil actions which they hid under a cloak of OUTWARD “holyness.” He described them as “whited tombs, beautiful on the outside and inside filled with rotten corpses” (paraphrased)
Your father and my egg donor sound like siblings—so I can relate to your situation, living in a “family compound” and the church and the MASKS of goodness while actually being evil.
I too hated to “confront” this, and turned down my egg donor’s last plea of “let’s just pretend none of this ever happened” after he devaluation and discarding of me for my psychopathic son and my psychopathic DIL and my egg donor’s psychopathic caregive almost cost me AND my other sons their lives when the caregiver, who was having an affair with the DIL who was stealing money from the egg donor got caught by her husband and then she switched to try to kill him so she could get away with the money. You know, there is NO WAY I am going to “let by gones be by gones,” without TRUE ACKNOWLEDGMENT of the lies told, the malicious smear campaign my egg donor launched in the community and the larger family, and the nearly FATAL results. I can’t let her stand there and tell me “it was all a mistake, I was fooled by these people” she was fooled all right, but she gladly went along with their persecution of me, spread lies about me being after her money (I’[ve never taken money from her or tried to, I am and have been self sufficient since I left home)
All adults are responsible for their own behavior, and I too was fooled by some of the Ps for some time, but when I found out how I had contributed to their success by enabling them, I CONFESSED MY BAD DECISIONS, and CHANGED my behavior. My egg donor has NOT even acknowledged her lies except by a viscious look and saying “well, don’t tell me you never told me a lie!” My answer was “Sure, when I was 15, 48 years ago!”
What I realize now, too, is that you cannot appease these emotional DEMANDS that they make on you and still RETAIN your own soul. In another blog here there was a saying “The truth will set you free, but first it will pith you off!”
I have paid a large and heavy price for freedom from the FOG (FEAR, OBLIGATION & GUILT) that was thrust on me from the cradle. I no longer fear her, I no longer feel obligated to her and I no longer have guilt or shame for HER BEHAVIOR or for my refusal to keep the family secrets hidden. We are NOT and never have been a “nice normal family” unless you take into consideration as “compared to the Manson “family.”
It is painful, cut and run, and I am so glad that your dear husband is in your corner. God bless you both.
PS you might want to go back to your psych doc and be reevaluated. sometimes there are long lulls between manic episodes and a manic episode (or hypo-manaic) can lead you into a bad spot with bad decisions based on taht mania. I have a close friend who is a VERY bi-polar woman who before her successful diagnosis and treatment just about messed up her life completely, now for years she has been very stable on medication and when she starts toward a manic episode or deep depression she recognizes the signs before it gets out of control and goes fo rmedication readjustment. Her life is calm now even with fairly wide springs in her moods from time to time.
c
“
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Wednesday, 29 July 2009 @ 1:36pm
sabrina says:
Oxy says -sitting in a church dosent no more make you a christian than sitting in a chicken house makes you a chicken…. ROTFLMAO!!!
Oxy sweetie- You never fail to “bring it” when it comes to good sense and hilarious analogies!!! This should be in the “farmers almanac” of LF!!
I am trying to work thru my upset from the thread last nite as MAJOR triggers were happening for me as I JUST HAD LEFT the courtroom with my x N/P for Domestic abuse case- 4th one, with 3 past convictions.
AND excuse me for saying- but on the new DViolence thread- a “Professed chicken” sitting in a chicken house amongst us was squawking and MORE than ruffled my feathers with all the chicken $hit he was talking!
I admit, I bounced- bounced off the wall, onto the ceiling and then back down again. I think my head spun around a few times too.. lol
All from what I expected and am used to coming “home” here with beautiful people and I felt I needed the comfort of you guys., then this random blogger- never heard from him before said very untrue things about DV- anyways- I AM talking myself off the ledge as I speak now- Mind you- I was on the ledge to knock down a few P’s! Nevertheless, I will be reading thru out the day and probally posting more later. For now, to self- medicate , my little girl and I are baking a red velvet cake and listening to Elton John (I so love that man!)
Any advice from anyone here? During court, ridiculous , offensive stabs were made toward me by the opposing female atty. AND the DA -it was- WHY I WAS PUNISHING THIS MAN FURTHER by coming back to court due to his breaking protection order over and over again. REGARDLESS that- the x n/p has MULTIPLE abuse CONVICTIONS with irrefutable evidence against him- hence the CONVICTIONS/GUILTY CHARGES.
DA asks me “so what do you want me to do about it???? (hell- let me get my LAW books from MY PURSE here and SEE what the law allows YOU TO DO MR. full of animosity DA! It was much more than these comments -
for example DA was pissed as he pulled me outside of the courtroom before trial to NOT even ask what my situation WAS or had been- BUT WHY is this charge so OLD? THis happened several months ago he practically glared at me. I explained CALMLY, respectfully- as good Southern girls should-( GRR!!!) that THE OPPOSING ATTY- (I didnt have one THIS TIME) had cancelled court dates SEVERAL times and that was not in my control.
He says (DA) WELL (yawn, yawn, look away in obvious dont give a **** attitude)- the MOST he will get is a small fine of $200 or less.
(oh, is that all it costs to beat the hell out of someone and keep coming back for more? Thats cheap, I would gladly pay $200 to beat some ^ss right now!)
The female atty on the P’s side admitted she knew NOTHING about this case- was only chosen as a stand in for the original atty for him, and berated me on the stand about WHY, WHY, WHY DID I FEEL THREATENED BY HIS (P;s) WELL MEANING LETTERS TO ME- AS she had the letters in hand, – mind you he PLED NOT GUILTY TO WRITING THESE LETTERS UNDER OATH!!!! WHy did I feel threatened she screamed 3 TIMES SAME QUESTION!
he ONLy said he was demon possesed, had a split personality, made references to the damage on my car he had gotten away with, and that HE WAS KILLINg himself.
Lets see Ms. ATTY- lets have someone with a 2 by 4 board HIT you in the head as you walk around a building- Ok. Now, NEXT day- You walk around a building and see SAME man with board again, raised at YOUR head- WOULD YOU FEEL THREATENED?? WHY?? HE WAS PUNISHED YESTERDAY FOR Hitting YOU WITH A BOARD- he paid his $200., !
My family- thank God were there for me and were APPALLED at what I endured for this shut and dried case. The DA was as bad as the atty. EVEN trying to say I was lying about some things that had little to do with the case, and I was 150% honest and backed up everything with hard core evidence. It was argued that these letters (forget previous stalking, threatening calls, strangling, etc etcetc. ) were not really harassment to me so the “trial” was NOT decided on- I am suppose to receive the “verdict” today! After hearing the P and his female atty talking in hallway- evident she was “hot” after the “OVER THE HILL” Chippendale dancer she was defending! Explains alot on her inhumane treatment of the victim here- BUt the DA only defense was their whines of having been stuck in court from 9 am to 7 pm at nite. SO My case was just an aggravation for them and their dinner time schedule!!
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Wednesday, 29 July 2009 @ 1:56pm
cutandrun says:
I hear what you’re saying, OxDrover!
Yes there would definitely be consequences if I ever confronted my parents. But I see it as something that is over and done and don’t need to go back there, at least with THEM. I go back to fix myself. Then I know how to deal if any future “incidents” happen. I was never beaten, at least now how I would define that. Just the occasional smack. The yelling was the worst part, things that were said. Certainly nothing like you have gone through, which is – WOW, a lot. And I hope you will stay safe!
Yes I have often wondered about the state of my dad’s heart. But I think it’s something that just is between him and the Lord now. All he could say if he repented now would be, I’m sorry I have an awful temper and blamed everyone else for my problems and anger. And controlled my kids lives so that we’d look good as a family. He’s not an elder any more, and my mom hasn’t had a drinking problem for over 25 years. As they age they are becoming more and more irrelevant.
Yes I’m sure I have to get over the FOG. I’m reading some good books right now and learning.
Unless a long lull between manic episodes can be as much as 8 years, I think I’ll be OK. I do know the first signs of going into a deep depression and believe me, I go running to the Dr. quick like a bunny. Before I learned what a Sociopath was, I saw my regular Dr. for a change in meds. But after I learned, I didn’t need them anymore.
I don’t really see my dad as being evil and hiding behind a mask. He has lots of good in him, but just that side of him that will sometimes come out under the right pressure. He works driving for my brother and I just don’t understand how they work that out. I couldn’t do it. But now, I think if he ever did have a temper tantrum around me, I think I would just walk away and say you can talk to me when you can be reasonable. There may be consequences for that reaction, but I can deal with that. Cause I’m a different person now.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 29 July 2009 @ 2:16pm
sabrina says:
Thanks for allowing me to vent here guys on my prev posts here and EVERYWHERE! As I said on another blog here, regardless of my venting so hard today- I AM seeing this entire courtdate as a WIN for all of us in speaking out against domestic violence. I am totally humbled and more than willing to do my part-whatever that is ,to speak out for the silenced victims of this herific epedimic. Now the X perp should have 4 guilty charges of abuse, along with ones from his previous marriage. Court is nerve racking, discouraging, and defeating at times due to the ignorance of those dealing with victims and lack of understanding them. BUt I would do IT ALL AGAIN to let our voices be heard. ok ok, cume ba yah.. BUT I sincerely mean that!.
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Wednesday, 29 July 2009 @ 3:21pm
OxDrover says:
Dear Cut and run,
I was seldom “beaten” in the terms of a brutal beating, only once, when I was 15 and totally enraged my egg donor, usually I was spanked, but much more of the GUILT trips, the SHAME and the OBLIGATION and continual disapproval. The spectre of the deity sitting there reading my mind and condemning me for even my thoughts, much less my actions.
The posting the egg donor as “all righteous” and her rages as “justified” because i was not “perfect” and of course, she was JUSTIFIED in anything she said or did. HOLY even. She still is generous with her financial giving, etc. but she is MALICIOUS more toward me, some toward my son C whose life she almost cost, but her main vengence and rages are reserved for me, the daughter who refused to assume the role of “family enabler” as she sees the end of her life approaching (she’s 80). I am determined that I will stop the DYSFUNCTION in our family with my generation.
I have a minister who she has been friends with 36+ yrs who is in the “loop” now and I am going to try one more time to get her to quit financially enabling my P-offspring, but I leave it in God’s hands what the outcome is. I try to work like it all depended on me, and pray like it all depends on God and TRUST in the outcome to be the best result. “All things work together fo rGOOD to those that love the Lord.” I have too many times trusted in my own ability to fix things, when i should have been trusting in my God and prayer.
If you can “live with” the past problems with your parents and not be repeatedly traumatized today, I am glad fo ryou. I was unable to do so, without continuing to lie to myself and open myself up for VERBAL and EMOTIONAL ABUSE. Emotional abuse is far worse than bone breaking physical abuse in my opinion, because it RAPES THE SOUL, not just the body alone. Believe me if my home and most of my assets were not tied up in a family land trust, I would have moved to Hong Kong and left no forwarding address.
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Wednesday, 29 July 2009 @ 3:42pm
cutandrun says:
I appreciate what you have been through and are going through now. And I’ll keep you in my prayers!
Perhaps I am just in a place in my journey where I am not ready to face the prospect of certain things. I am sure there is more I need to learn yet. Or more ways I need to grow to be strong enough.
Still in process of getting my feet back under me after Mr. Sociopathetic #2.
Still curious – re: his comments at our last meeting – would you see “you can be kind of sassy with me” as a veiled threat? I know the implications of “I will always be RIGHT HERE”, he meant, in my mind….
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Wednesday, 29 July 2009 @ 3:49pm
henry says:
Dear New Lily – Thanks for the tap on the head with your magic wand, it worked, today has been a good day. My pity partys are fewer and further between. Thanks…….
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Wednesday, 29 July 2009 @ 9:51pm
ANewLily says:
Great, Henry. Between Oxy’s skillet (laden with love and caring) and my magic wand (laden with love and encouragement) you are a lucky man. LOL
I’m SO glad you are feeling better today. Feeling bad is so TERRIBLE!
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Wednesday, 29 July 2009 @ 10:15pm
OxDrover says:
Dear Cutandrun,
Learning is a life long process I think if we continue to grow and gain wisdom.
What your S#2 said doesn’t make any sense to me, sometimes they, I think, don’t even know what they mean. The thing I keep in mind is “how do you tell if an S is lying? THEIR LIPS ARE MOVING. Everything they do, everything they say is part of a con to get whtever it is that they want.
They want (I think) for us to “pine” for them after they have discarded us, they are the center of their wold and they want to be the center of our world too, even if they dont’ want us, they want us to want them. DUH! LOL Many times they come back and try to re-hook us years later even.
Making changes in our lives and situations is an individual thing. What is right, and at the RIGHT time for ME, may not be for others. The ONE thing that is common is that we must do what is right for US. We have to learn to decide what kind of treatment from others we will tolerate, set boundaries and enforce them.
I have become aware that I was also enabling of the psychopaths and others, and I have worked on stopping that behavior, adjusting MYSELF…and not focused on changing (or trying to) others, yet at the same time, holding them accountable for their own responsibilities.
It has all been a SLOW (and painful) process as more and more of my own issues have risen. It started out learning about the psychopaths, but has become learning about ME. Improving me, nurturing my spirituality, making better judgments, better decisions, etc. In some cases I realize now “why” I made the decisions I did, because “normal” for me was allowing FOG to be my moral compass. Now, I am working on getting out of the FOG and seeing mroe clearly.
None is so blind as he who WILL NOT see.
None of us have 20:20 fioresight and all have 20:20 HIND sight, but learning from your mistakes is a start on wisdom.
My prayers and good wishes for you as you journey this difficult road toward healing. God bless you.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 29 July 2009 @ 10:22pm
Brilhancy says:
OxDrover and ALL
This is something I posted in one of our other blogs….my views.
The caotic world that sociopaths created for themselves ended up in a caotic world for those who have crossed their path or being close to them . They instigate rage, hatrated and an umballanced view of life on those who have been in contacted with them. People feel angry, extremely hurt, very vulnerable, with very low self-steem, frustated, extremely vulnerable and with this huge need of airing their pain and grief. Blames roll freely, misinterpretation abounds and if we are not carefull to preserve ourselves we will end up all mad.
This is the world that a sociopath wishes to impose on us, the victms. If we allow this to happen the sociopaths will succeed.
I have been a victm of a S, as well as my 2 children. We lived through it for over 22 years. Finally in despair I managed to break free. Broke free from his physical presence but the hurt continued. Not understanding what I lived through and cultivating all those feelings above described I started my road to recovery. Investigating, reading, researching and thinking a lot and reading all your posts. Through this process I am coming to the conclusion that sociopaths are a result of an unhealth upbringing. To survive they learn how to lie, how to manipulate to overcome the adversities that life brough upon them. They are also the fruits of environments (family) that display traits of sociopaths.
I believe they do not realise what they are doing and do not understand the reasons of their doings, why they are what they are, although they have conciense of what they are doing is not socially acceptable. That is why they have to hide their actions and deceive many people. Somehow deep down they feel ashame of themselfes but they do not have regrets or remorse because they have not learnt what are those feelings. They grow up develeping those skills manipulating, lying, deceiving, robing , using others for their own advantage and survival because they did not learn how to be dignified human beings, and at an adult stage they are very good at what they do.
If happens that the person with all those traits are also a handsome person they also learn how to use their charm and physicall appeal. And that is a lethal combination for someone who falls for them. The S will have a ball…until the day you decide to declare war and jump out from the plane.
Then the S will feel violated and will dishe out his final blow to the victm. And then we all become what we are today. People trying to survive the atrocities of a sociopath. And the sociopath will find greener pastures to start all over again.
Once we develop this awareness I believe we find our cure. The greater our awareness the lesser a chance a sociopath will demage us again, and the S themselves will stay away from us.
And in their pursuit of fame and grandour, once they can not fool us anymore, they start saying bad things about us to make them look good and us the bad ones. But I can assure you they know our values but do not have enough courage to admit to us. (in my case I have proof that the S was the first one to admit and stood up for me saying “she is very intligent, has a lot of power and is uncapable of hurting a fly). This was said by him when he felt ttheathened by a situation far away from me and which I was not supposed to know. (that was also an indication that he was and still have ILLUSION of one day coming back to us).
My point is, I am feeling really strong and at 95% at peace knowing what I know today and I have no bad feelings towards the S which one day tried to destroy me, my life and the life of his own 2 children. I feel nothing, not even sorry for him..and this is a good place to be in.. So the more awareness we develop, the stronger we become.
(Report abusive comment)
Thursday, 30 July 2009 @ 12:26am
sabrina says:
Brilhancy, Thank you for sharing that with us. I really appreciate your time and wisdom in giving this post. If you can tell me, or can expand on how you have come to the place where you said you feel nothing? You said you have no bad feelings for him any longer. You “are” in a wonderful and peaceful place! I am grateful that you have come so far in your healing journey. It gives us all much hope.
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Thursday, 30 July 2009 @ 12:36am
Brilhancy says:
Sabrina,
For a very long time I was feeling absolutely lost and taking one hour after the next. This one hour kept getting longer 2 hours, two days, two years and as the time was passing by I was concentrating in preserving what was left and raising the children in a foreign country without family or friends to support me. I had my career but with the S screwing up my mind, soul, finances and relationship with the children, I had to resign and give part of my money to him. He left with my acceptance and no separation.Later on I found out he was with another woman. I sad nothing to the children or did not react. This while I was without a job, a huge mortgae, debts to pay (made by him) and 2 children finishing College and starting Uni. I cried a lot but I knew I had sthength to lift my self again. I knew he was eventually coming back but he was waiting for me to fall apart so he could validate himself and believing that I would never found out about the othr women. Never said one word to the children what I was going through and just ask them to concentrate on their part (studying) and I was concentrating in my part..house, food and a new job. After two years doing consultancy work I managed to have a permanet Position again in my field ( I am an economist). Through this time I was very confused and I could not make sense of anything. As I was working and the children studying our attention started being diverted to other things..buying a new car, kids graduating and having their successful careers and my assests growing. I also made a few investments which gave me good profits. In this way we start seeing our lifes improving ten times from what it was before.. We became happy people and no more fights in the house and no more lack of money. This made us very proud of ourselves. But I was also missing the company from the man I learned to loved.
And I never bad mouthed the father with no one not even the children.. With time and the S vanished he became a loughing stock. He just proof to everybody that knew him (and who though he was a great guy) who he really was. I WAS THE GREAT GIRL. Not even the children want to talk to him after all those years (7 years now). My point is if we concentrate in our lives and built our lives we succeed and the S will scrumble. They (the Ss) stay from a distance waiting for us to fall in pieces. then they will validate themselves. If we do not give our energy to them but to ourselves (with a lot of pain) we will get the results that we want and that the S hate eg; we become successfull people.When you get in this position you feel good really good and you do not care what happens to him and you do not even think about him. Time heels all wonds but we have to help ourselves..
And then you realised what you had was just an illusion…and you feel glad he is gone. You become aware the if you stayed with them for certainly you will die young.
And what a felling knowing that he destroyed his life and is a clown in everybody’s eyes that knew him. To survive he had to disapear from everyones site. And ofcourse to a new place where no one, but no one knows anything about him. It will be just a matter of time before the mascarade come to light again and he is getting old, ugly and poor. After the mess they live behind there is only one place for them..to hide and hide and keep running. and you become stronger and stronger .
Mind you, after 5 years he contacted me trying to find out what happened with my finances (not what happen or how were the children) .. I showed no emotions and said ..very well.. nothing else. Then he said: the children never call me. I said: there are no children here anymore..they are adults and already finished their UNI and have their own careers…he asked me: is there anything else you want to say?… I replied no…I wish you well . . and he rang up..
With all the knowlwdge you have now you are in the position to make this happen..it is just a meter of time..
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Thursday, 30 July 2009 @ 1:32am
ThornBud says:
To JaneSmith:
Thanks for shering info about medication. I am suffering huge pains caused from Stress ulcerations in stomac and i was taking Ranitidine, but it doesnt stop.
Could Prilosec/Nexium be taken with antidepresant?
Thanks in advance!
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Thursday, 30 July 2009 @ 6:30am
learnthelesson says:
Brilhancy,
Your story represents sadness strength and success…the aftermath of a relationshp with a Sociopath. Thank you for sharing.
You said
“With all the knowledge you have now you are in the position to make this happen…it is just a matter of time” — we have to put our words into action…all that we share and all that we advise we have to take that step when we are ready to cut the connection completely.
If we have the knowledge that secretly they are waiting for us to falter, to fail — then all we really have to do is forward strong and create our own happiness again. JUST GO FORWARD, after we have done all the work and acceptance and continued healing….Go forward from the illusion into reality – our lives will and can always be fulfilling and rewarding — their lives will always be lived by draining other peoples resources , souls, and lives.
Its our choice..letting go completely and relying on ourselves completely….We just have to make it! Thanks again for sharing your journey. Its very inspirational and uplifting!
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Thursday, 30 July 2009 @ 8:16am
blueskies says:
“With all the knowledge you have now you are in the position to make this happen…it is just a matter of time” — we have to put our words into action…all that we share and all that we advise we have to take that step when we are ready to cut the connection completely.
LTL and Brilliancy you are on a springboard! I hope I get there soon.xxx
I am in the picking apart and putting in place stage STILL! and its tiring. I cant wait for the feeling I get from you, LTL, where it’s time to stop and get on with me.xxx
Big loves.
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Thursday, 30 July 2009 @ 9:15am
JaneSmith says:
Thornbud,
Yes, you can take Prilosec with anti-depressants. I was on them for a while after overcoming generalized anxiety because I was still suffering residual depression. No matter how hard I tried to get better naturally, it didn’t work and I chose to take a low dosage of Paxil for about a year.
I’ve been taking the 14 day Prilosec regime for over 4 years now, on and off. It works big time. It is the bomb for many types of gastro intestinal problems. I was skeptical when my sister recommended it to me as I was so sick but within a month or two of taking it everyday (it’s ok to take longer than the 14 day in the beginning. Helps keep the acid production way down), I felt fine.
Believe me, I can drink coffee, wine, even eat pizza ocassionally and my belly is serene. But I must admit that I no longer worry about the small things in life. Heck, I don’t worry about anything any more. To me, worrying does not solve problems only creates more.
So, stress free life plus Prilosec ocassionally= Tranquility!!…haha.
Hope this helps you, sweetie. You can also ask the pharmacist or a physician and they should give you further information regarding Prilosec and how beneficial it may be for you.
(Report abusive comment)
Thursday, 30 July 2009 @ 10:04am
OxDrover says:
Prilosec is a safe medication, THAT SAID, (putting on my MEDICAL HAT HERE GUYS) sometimes the pain we feel in our stomachs is an indication of SOMETHING WORSE and the prilosec can MASK that pain while the “somethign worse” gets WORSE.
If gastro pain continues for an “extended” period of time (say a month or more) even if prilosec helps, I would get evaluated by a GI Doc to be sure that there is nothing worse lurking there. sometimes people “self diagnose” (my step father was THE worst!!!) but a medical professional can get to the bottom of the problem before it becomes lethal.
We all know, too, that stress can make problems worse, and that stress can dampen down our immune system. Stomach (gastric) ulcers are caused by a bacteria BUT stress makes our immune system crap out, so stress IS connected with ulcers, though not just a single cause. However, gastric pain CAN be a symptom of gastric or esophageal ulcers and while the prilosec dampens down the pain, the CONDITION GETS WORSE and could even lead to having a BLEEDING ULCER. If you do have ulcers, there is a simple oral treatment for them (which includes an antibiiotic) and presto, they are quickly gone. So get a MEDICAL CHECK UP if you are hving continuaol, severe or prolonged pain that doesn’t “self cure” without medications that are OTC (over the counter).
Nursie hat off. ((((hugs)))) Love Oxy
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Thursday, 30 July 2009 @ 10:26am
JaneSmith says:
Yes, Oxy, absolutely.
I was told I might have an ulcer so I had the endoscopic procedure done on me. I was terrified while laying there waiting for my turn, but once I was in the surgerical room and those fancy, smancy “you will feel no pain and remember nothing” drugs were put in my arm…poof, not even a bit scary.
Turns out, no ulcer just extreme gastritis. Hence, the taking of Prilosec. It worked for me.
So, yeah, if any of you are having righteous bouts of pain, vomiting, even bleeding (eek!) visit a physician first before self-medicating.
Thanks, Nurse Oxy or should I say…thanks, Nurse Ratched (one flew over the cuckoos’ nest)…haha, jk sweetie pateety.
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Thursday, 30 July 2009 @ 10:53am
OxDrover says:
Janie, sweetie, I have been called “Nurse Rachet” by more than one patient! LOL I even threatened (Jokingly) to move in with a patient who would not keep on his diabetic diet! LOL So actually I take that as a COMPLIMENT, and especially from you!!!! LOL
My step father (bless his heart!) self diagnosed the eye pain of ACUTE GLAUCOMA as “sinus pain” and was taking benadryl (OTC) which made the eye worse and almost cost him is SIGHT in that eye. THANK GOD he called me before he let it go on too long and we saved his sight and his eye.
PAIN is a great indicator and symptom that SOMETHING IS WRONG, and should not be taken lightly. Not that I am saying go to the MD with every ache and pain all the time, but if something is severe or goes on very long, SEE A DOCTOR.
My egg donor had numbness and weakness in her left side of the body for 12 hours “thinking it would go away” CLASSIC STROKE SYMPTOMS that anyone should know, and she went into DENIAL, fortunately not a lot of damage was done, but could have been for sure.
Stroke used to be a thing we could do nothing about so it was not an “emergency” but now that there is a treatment for CERTAIN kinds of stroke, it is an emergency and the patient must be seen and diagnosed and treated within the first 3 hours of signs developing.
So, anyway, just need to be cautious if you have continuing pain or signs of things that might be worse. CAUTION!!! (((hugs))))
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Thursday, 30 July 2009 @ 11:31am
ErinBrockovich says:
AnewLily:
I can’t find your post where you asked me about ‘who’ I am.
I want to clarify to you that NO, I am not ‘HER’…..Erin Brockovich.
I have been struck by her tenacity and I can connect with her drive. My friends refer to me as EB, so I thought it would be the perfect blog name.
It has become an ‘inside reference’ around my neck of the woods.
Oh, no…..she’s going EB on them! Don’t mess with EB…..and such!
So, no I am not her, the ‘real’ EB……I am me. Me only, me someone who will fight for my rights, stand up for justice and see things through to the end, no matter the uphill climb. I will not ever give up my definition of ‘right is right and wrong is wrong’.
Just to clarify.
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Thursday, 30 July 2009 @ 12:56pm
ANewLily says:
EB, beautiful “clarification.” Thanks. I love how your friends
I’m “with” you being struck by her tenacity and drive. I only saw the one TV hour-long interview but I was totally impressed with her.
Once upon a time, I also had “tenacity” and “drive.” Will I get it back after I totally recover from this past two years of ill health and injury? That’s the question!
I agree. It is a perfce blog name for you.
Actually, so is mine for me I used to be “Lily but after leaving EX, I bloomed! (My real name is not Lily.)
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Thursday, 30 July 2009 @ 1:31pm
ANewLily says:
Oops. lost part of a sentence
I love how your friends addres you!
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Thursday, 30 July 2009 @ 1:32pm
ErinBrockovich says:
ANL:
YEs, you never lost it……
If I can conquor what I have…..anyone can…..what makes me so special……
We are all special, we all can be whatever we want…….We need to gather up our balls and use them!!!!
NO, am I the same person prior to my strokes and cancer……Not a bit…..I have way less energy, more heath fears, I get my but kicked every day!!!!! By my own body….
BUT…..darn it……NO ONE, not even me……is gonna keep me down. Being ‘fetal in the corner’ is not any way to live…..
So the only option is to come out with both guns drawn…..we can always place them in he holster if we need to!!!!!
Get your tenacity and drive back NOW…..this will help you recover……Allow it to come back, call on it……if you ask, it will come!!!!!
Take care of your precious LILY and let it divide and cover the gardens…..
You can do it! It takes the right mindset and kicking your own butt!!!
XXOO
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Thursday, 30 July 2009 @ 1:50pm
ANewLily says:
Brilhancy, thank you for your two posts that describe your journey and eventual success. Indeed, very inspirational to the rest of us.
Jane Smith, I thank you, too, for describing your experience with the endoscopy!!! I have to have one on July 11 — along with another colonoscopy and have been trying not to worry about it. I had developed a severe case of iron deficiency anemia and they said tests indicated something about bleeding inside causing it.
I am very independent, like to do thngs myself, so was unhappy when told I had to have somone take me to and from the procedure! I suggested a taxi and the doctor and assistant almost jumped up and down saying “No. No” The GI said I’d be so out of it that a taxi driver could overtake me, rob me and toss my body on the side of the road.
Well, I didn’t even have to ask for help. Yesterday, a neighbor called to check on me and before the conversation ended, she had volunteered to take me, stay for the procedures, and then bring me home.
A reminder that really we don’t need to “worry” about anything!
The GI (last Friday) did give me two week samples of Align for my stomach pain. With the first pill (one a day) I felt relief. Now after 6 days of taking it, I had a maravelous surprise. I can fasten the top button of my shorts! The doctor said that my “inflated” abdomen (and waist) was due to bloated gas!
Align is over the counter and about $30 for a month supply. (Also available online, even Amazon.com) How does that cost compare with Prilosec?
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Thursday, 30 July 2009 @ 2:30pm
ANewLily says:
After reading EB’s response to me, I reread my post. I hadn’t just missed part of one sentence, but two. (I don’t know what happened because I know I typed the full sentences!)
I used to be “Lilybud” (my daddy’s favorite name for me — because in his eyes I was a tender flower ready to bloom into adulthood). No one knew this so I felt it was an appropriate screenname. Then it bacame “LilyBlossom” and then “A New Lily” as I progressed in healing.
Names are interesting — because they are so personal, I guess. At one college in which I taught, my co-workers called me “Mother Teresa” because I befriended the downtrodden students. I was terribly embarrassed to be called that. The real Mother Teresa was way beyond me!
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Thursday, 30 July 2009 @ 3:06pm
henry says:
Lily is a beautiful name. I named my two doxy’s Lily and Posey. I have acres of Lily’s, always looking for ANEWLILY to plant. Lilly’s of the Feild is one of my favorite movies. My father’s mother (my grandmother that I never met) was named Lilly, she died of TB back in the ’30s..the X and I would dig up lilly’s at old abandoned homesteads and go to farmers market etc. That first spring after he left I mowed em down and dug some up..But now they bloom to remind me life goes on…
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Thursday, 30 July 2009 @ 8:44pm
Brilhancy says:
ANewLily, learnthelesson, blueskies and Sabrina
I also learnt that the only thing a S lives for is to torment others. They are very weak people with big egos. Our caracter, honesty, love and caring nature boders them very much. They are extremely envious of our qualities because they do not posses them and they do not know what is to feel them (can you imagine a life without those feelings?) and in silence they want us to be as bad as them. So they keep tormenting us but also they do not want let us go. That is when they manipulate our emotions. The elastic …I will hurt you but I will not loose you… We are the sponge that they drain their nectar to survive.
And they know when we are weak and vulnerable and in need. than they will deny any thing to us…to hurt us. but as soon as they feel theathened, probably thinking that we will leave them they start becoming nice to us again until they have us back in their trust ..then they start again and again ..this cycle goes on for the entire time you live with them. and it gets more violent with time. everytime is a bit worse then the one before..and they have a lot of pleasure seeing us suffering and confused. Life with them is not worth one minute of our existence….they are a waste of space and do not worth the air that they breath.
They have no ideals in life, no goals, no intention of doing any good deeds in life. They are snakes, cameleons hiden behind their camuflages waiting for the next bite..they serve no purpose in life. When you realise all this you will feel so relieved that you scape from this alien creature. They are not humans…only in apearance. They have a corrupted soul, and they are capable of the worse things we can ever imagine.
But we only see this after we free ourselves from them. If they were bad when leaving with us they will get even worse once they leave us ..they will try to hurt us even more .
They love the power game… the love to see us in pain… The best lesson I learnt is to dismiss them completelly.
Don’t try to argue, to reason to be civilised. They do not know what those things are. The more you try to negotiate with them you are feeding their seek ego. DISMISS THEM completely. THEY HATE THAT. If there are children involved forget about pension or child maitenance They have a great pleasure in denying that to you. Give bread and water to the kids ..they will be better off. If you have to, give everything and run..
Forget about courts ..the legal system will drain the little bit you have left and also your energy. GIVE and run and DISMISS. That approac worked very well for me and my children .. we never ask for 1 cent and I even never mentioned child support. HERE IS THE MONEY you want and do whatever you want but never come back crying because once you are gone from this door your name will never be mentioned again..
Until our Judges, our Courts and our systems understand what is a Sociopath and what they do. we will be wasting our time precious time in life. The S have no life and no goals, so time spent in Court and fighting gives them a lot of pleasure because they know you have your mind still hoocked on them. They stil have control over you , your souls and your mind. DO NOT GIVE THEM this pleasure.
Now I believe we should all really work hard for the education of professionals on what is a Sociopath and the devastation they cause on other peoples lives.
Wwhen we start seeing a bit more of justice we can go and seek justice but right now it is not worth. unles someone dies.
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Thursday, 30 July 2009 @ 10:07pm
ANewLily says:
Henry, I think you just saved my life with, “But now they bloom to remind me life goes on.”
This afternoon, for the very first time in my life, I didn’t want to live anymore!! I even sat in the car in my garage with the door closed — but didn’t turn on the car!! I couldn’t do it!
I don’t even have the energy to explain what happened this afternoon — just after I last posted. In a way, Brilhancy described it anyway — and as this article title says, “When the pain caused by a sociopath doesn’t stop…” Actually, her first sentence, ” ……the only thing a S lives for is to torment others” says it ALL.
WHY can’t he leave me alone????????? His torment is always “out of the blue’ and this is no exception.
Granted I am very ill and haven’t had much strength for months but today WAS TOO MUCH.
My heart is broken! My adult children are NOT safe from him when they contact me — and me contact them!! I’ve known this for seven years but nothing I have done has been able to undo the parental alienation, that supposedly is a bogus theory! It sure isn’t “bogus” to me. I’m the victim of it and remain one as this afternoon showed!!!!!
I don’t want to be a victim. I’ve worked hard to avoid that label.
Thanks for listening and maybe saying a few prayers for me but please don’t worry about me!! I have a scheduled doctor’s appointment tomorrow afternoon and I’ll discuss this with her.
I think for my children’s safety I am going to HAVE to go NC with them again — for their sake. I couldn’t stand to lose them to death!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Thursday, 30 July 2009 @ 10:35pm
Brilhancy says:
ANewLily, learnthelesson, blueskies and Sabrina
In some of my previous post I said that for us to survive a life with a S we have to become a S worse then them. This is how I could free myself. When I said Give everything..we are acting as a S. My ex S invented (for the third time) that he need to go to an overseas trip for some strange adventure (never mentioned that was a woman) .He had done this before and there were othe women involved. I pretend to be inocent and naive and gave support to him (but with those ideas described above in my mind). I gave whatever he wanted Money and a house . He sold the house then I asked to prepare a separation of assets because his adventure was very dandgerous and if anything happened to him I did not have to worry about selling the other house. (he knew all the money was with him and the other house had a huge mortgage and I was unemployed by then) I also asked him to give me a Power of Attorney if anything happened to him I could sell the house without chasing him . He signed the power of Attorney but he was so stupid that he gave me unconditional power. In his mind he was going to have another affair and then coming back. I pretended I did not know that and was very supportive. There he went and stayed and stayed and stayed.. hoping that I would contact him and then he would have a reason to leave the other women and come back to me when his money finished. Actually he did that but when he did that I had transferred the title to my name and withdraw all his retirement fund with the Power of Attorney he gave to me. WOW what a sueprise he had. and that is why he can not even complain that I got his money. He gave me the power for that. But he never though that I was going to be so cold. I knew by then who I was dealing with but I did not know as half of who he really was.
So be cold and intligent to survive them with minumun losses
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Thursday, 30 July 2009 @ 10:39pm
henry says:
Anewlily – I have no idea what to say at this moment to you…please go to that Dr. appt. My mother is a grand deva narcissist, I dont mention her much, I tend to talk about my X BF the most on here. But my mother kept everyone at odds, she played us all to her benifit. She ruined lives. I told this before but you may not of read it. I put mom in a nursing home a few years back and her room mate was the nicest sweetest blind lady , name Bonnie, bonnie was super inteligent and ready to talk about any current avent and would always say hello to me and talk. One time I said ‘Mom dont you just really like Bonnie and arent you glad she is your roomate always so pleasant. Mom said ‘I hate that Bitch. I said Why? mom said because she cant see how beautiful I am…anyway my mother would beat my sister when my dad molested her, my mother drove my sister to suicide, now mom sets all alone in a nursing home with her twenty thousand dollar face and silicone tits – we have all seen how she played us – kept us at odds – your children will see this about their DAD…you may needto go no contact with them – or just tell them when they call no mention of his name or what he is up to – does your x husband give your children money? is that the power he has? if so go no contact – save your life lily – i struggle everyday with depression or thought of my past – somedays I am on the verge of tears for no reason – I put my happy face on and go about making weveryone happy … but for the first time I understand what power my mom had on so many people and how she truly kept us all in chaos and turmoil — now that I know and understand that she is evil like a demon, i can not undo the damage but i can undo her power over me and live each day too the best of my ability – days are precious – make the most of them and if your kids are in harms way – they need to save themselves they are not little anymore – i dont make alot of sense but please find some help you are my NEWLILY
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Thursday, 30 July 2009 @ 10:59pm
Brilhancy says:
ANewLily,
The only thing I can say to you. Your children will find out and they will break fre from the S and then they will see what you went through. The children will have the power to know. You have your peace of mind and your love for them. These are enough to give you sthrength. When the pain gets so unbearble try to occupy your mind. Do the little things you like to do…. breath deeply and say to yourself I love myself and I love my life. I know how to love I love my children they don’t have to be close to you for you to love them.
If you love yourself you will find the forces to go on. fight but fight for your life not for the bad things the S is doing with you. Once you find the inner strength. you will feel better. You always have us here to talk to and to help you to next hour or the next day.. and like this you will get far….keep getting strong… remember do not give the pleasure for him to get you weak…and think about good thoughts
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Thursday, 30 July 2009 @ 11:18pm
ANewLily says:
Brilhancy and Henry,
Just to pop in and tell you both thank you. I couldn’t comprehend all you said (but will be able to tomorrow, I think)
But something each of you said has penetrated: 1) my children aren’t “little” any more. I need to let them save themselves (they do have good spouses — two with guns).
2) I do love myself and that love (directly from God) will keep me strong. I WILL overcome this because I AM strong.
Thanks
I don’t think I’ll be sleeping tonight but it will be opportunity to recover my peace of mind. I don’t usually lose it!
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Friday, 31 July 2009 @ 12:06am
henry says:
lily i was trying to coney that I understand the power of a narcisisst and how they can control family. my mom always wanted to help her kids finacially – get her name on a deed or a mortage or a loan but not ever be out a penny – then she had control and power to manipulate and threaten..if your X husband has done that with his children then they must save themselves and learn fromit…We lived in mortal fear of my moms tirades – threats of doing us harm etc. and when she was unable to walk, drive and carry her gun we all sighed with relief – the monster is finally incapable of doing us harm..I was 50 before I realized my mon is demonic – go ahead and laugh but it true – evil seeps out of her poursand her eyes look like a lizard – I escaped her grasp only to fall victim to another – I will learn to trust my gut and save my self – i did it on my own with the mother and with the help of lovefraud with the BF – hang in there newlily
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Friday, 31 July 2009 @ 12:22am
henry says:
coney = convey
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Friday, 31 July 2009 @ 12:23am
ThornBud says:
OXY and Jane,
thank u for valuable informations. In fact, i did go to GI and made some tests, though not gastroscopy, he said there is no need. I got typical stress ulceration in addition to interaction with damages caused from nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAID) used to relieve pain in my spine. To cover all my EX’s needs i kept working overtime despite my injured spine, and to be able to work 20 hrs/day, i had to take pain relese medications. Now, i am hardly walking and most probably will have to go to surgery (triple discus hernia diagnosed)
GI prescribed Ranitidine, it help sometimes, but i would like to try something else. Of course, smoking and drinking (i am taking beer, not strong drinks) are forbiden, but i am still too weak to quit it.
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Friday, 31 July 2009 @ 4:29am
Easy says:
Henry
I found this Quote on a profile
Never make someone a Priority, when to them you are an Option!
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Friday, 31 July 2009 @ 9:18am
justabouthealed says:
Henry,
What your mom said about the roommate just sums up a narcissiopath, doesn’t it!!! I’m so sorry you had to suffer a mom like that and congratulations to you for waking up from the FOG. I truly didn’t understand who or what my mom was until I was past my mid 50’s, though I got glimpses of the truth before that. It is just a lot to take in, isn’t it?!!!!
Anyway, I think you will never fall victim again. Keep that radar working! Hugs to you.
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Friday, 31 July 2009 @ 9:51am
Tilly says:
Henry:
To them we are not even options as “people”, we are options like ” which golf club will I use today to hit this ball ?.”
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Friday, 31 July 2009 @ 10:28am
ANewLily says:
Brilhancy and Henry, Just to let you know that I am still alive this morning and as suspected I could understand what both of you wrote to me last night. I can see more clearly this morning.
It is true that FEAR distorts our ability to comprehend. And that is what it was yesterday afternoon for me — FEAR, pure unadulterated FEAR.
It’s gone today. I know what I have to do.
As a sideline, I am grateful to know that so many of you were in your 50’s before you saw the dystunction in your parent. I truly think that my adult children started to contact me last month was their enlightenment about their father — and the other daughter a year ago.
I take yesterday’s threats against them for contacting me as EX’s last attempt to frighten ME into “submission”. AHA! Won’t work this time!! I’m stronger!!
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Friday, 31 July 2009 @ 12:13pm
ANewLily says:
And I trust God to protect my children. None of them are “dumbies” and all are capable of taking care of themselves. I did give them all a firm foundation (or the best I could do anyway.)
I think my mother instincts were overworked yesterday — and although I am TIRED of all this, I do accept that “pain caused by a sociopath (narcissiopath) isn’t going to stop.”
Well, the pain can be conquered, even if it happens over and over again. Each triumph over the fear will make me stronger still.
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Friday, 31 July 2009 @ 12:18pm
JaneSmith says:
Thornbud & ANewLily,
I also had a bad time with NSAIDs. I was prescribed them for muscle aches. Stupid move on my part as I was in the throes of high anxiety, panic attacks, excessive acid production in my gi, so I should have known not to take those meds.
Sure enough, those drugs are what set off the suffering that caused me to visit a GI and she told me I needed the endoscopic procedure to see if I have an ulcer. Like I said up there, no ulcer but extreme gastritis that is not in any way a fun time.
She gave me a prescription of Nexxium but each pill was 2-3 dollars and I couldn’t afford them. My older sister is an RN and she’s the one to recommend OTC prilosec for my tummy problems.
Within a couple of months of taking it, my stomach acid dropped way low and I was able to eat without any heartburn, vomiting, or gas.
I’m not a doctor. All I can tell you is what works for me. And prilosec is a wonder drug for me.
And ANewLily, sweetie I don’t know anything about Align but Prilosec is fairly cheap compared to other acid reducers. For a 14 day regime it costs me 10 to 15 dollars (depends on the store I’m buying it). Pretty darn inexpensive for all the help it provides me.
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Friday, 31 July 2009 @ 12:56pm
JaneSmith says:
ANewLily,
I think many if not all of us on LF can totally relate to your current feelings of despair, sorrow and grief. I know, doll. For many years the anxiety and depression was a daily struggle for me. I was too stubborn, or ignorant to seek outside intervention from a lisenced therapist. And when in times of crisis, where the pain I felt was overwhelming and I reached out to my love ones, it terrified them. It alienated them because they had no idea what was wrong with me.
I admit when I was burdened with such emotional/psychological turmoil that I started to resent them for not offering me the help I needed. Now I realize that they did the best they could and they are not professionals. That even though I felt they abandoned me they continued to fiercely love and care for me.
I needed to fix my own broken self. I think I just got so sick and tired of being sick and tired. So afraid of every little thing even my own shadow. So terrified of the cruel words people said to me as my skin was as transparent as gossamer. It felt like sharp knives cutting into my heart everytime I was let down or betrayed by a friend, family member or a lover. Of course, when you’re despondent even the tiniest ant hill can seem as insurmountable is Mt. Everest.
I’ve spoken on here regarding my spiritual surrender to The Lord and how liberated, free, peaceful I began to feel after I willingly submitted myself to His will. He is a loving, caring, merciful God and if I shared the miracles I have witnessed that have been directed to me, you folks might consider me a loony bird. I wouldn’t blame you. I am still in awe over these miracle that have transpired over a couple of decades.
What I’m saying to you, ANewLily, that by surrendering to a Higher Power, choosing to not go it alone any longer, I AM free. I experienced joy for the first time 4 years ago and you talk about an addictive feeling, wow! Aint’ nothing like it in this world expect for the combination of love. Real, deep, fortified, soul enriching love.
Love for life, love for people, love for critters, love for me and love for The Triune God.
Just please don’t give up on yourself. Don’t submit, don’t give in to those horrible feelings created, caused by the evil humanoid. He’s not worth the salt in your tears. Be contemptuous, be loathing towards him. THAT’s what he deserves from you right now. Because he never, ever deserved such an awesome, beautiful, brilliant woman like you.
With my sincerest love and concern for you,
JS
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Friday, 31 July 2009 @ 1:25pm
ANewLily says:
JaneSmith, I have a huge smile on my face to read your words, “and if I shared the miracles I have witnessed that have been directed to me, you folks might consider me a loony bird.” Me, too! But you and I know we are not “loony birds.” I believe others, if not all, know it, too, because they, too, have experienced the miracles.
I just want to reassure you that my love for the Triune God and His love for me helped me (again) through the terrible fear I felt yesterday afternoon. He is surely the One who wouldn’t let me start the car. PTL.
I don’t think I have ever felt that intense a fear as I did yesterday afternoon. My instinct was to flee from it, instead of facing it. Bad instinct!!!!
Today, in the light of day, God has directed me to a plan of what I need to do about the threat to kill my children for them contacting me. That was a LIE from the DEVIL himself, an idle threat of a coward!!
So, THANK YOU for your “sincerest love and concern” foe me and may us “Loony birds” flourish and spread the Light through the Darkness!!
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Friday, 31 July 2009 @ 2:00pm
JaneSmith says:
Awww…my heart is overflowing with deep affection and care for you, ANewLily.
See? You are so very strong, capable, awesome in heart, mind and spirit. You GO, lovely lady!!
**a big squeezing hug for you!!**
xxooxxoo!!
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Friday, 31 July 2009 @ 2:43pm
ANewLily says:
Wow, JaneSmith, what validating words — and the hug, too.
I love to give and receive hugs. I even have a t-shirt a friend made for me that says, “Hug Therapist.”
HUGS BACK TO YOU!!!
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Friday, 31 July 2009 @ 3:23pm
ANewLily says:
Jane and others,
My days of daily struggle against the fear, pain, despair, and grief are in the past. I pray that everyone else’s fear, pain, despair, and grief will soon be in their past, too!!!!!!!!!
Now they (mostly fear for my children) only come periodically and “out of the blue” as the long years of physical abuse did.
There is healing in God’s “wings.”
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Friday, 31 July 2009 @ 3:29pm
OxDrover says:
Dear Lily,
I’ve been having some internet access, getting kicked off, my priavte e mail not working (at all) and other things so hadn’t been on much (kept losing posts I had written)–anyway, i am so sorry, dear, that you have been experiencing such fear, sadness and despair. I know the stories that have been your LIFE for several years now, the difficult health issues, broken bones, lack of support, feelings of grief and loss, confusion about what all was going on, fear of your safety etc. If you reacted to any of this, much less ALL of this, “normally” you would NOT BE NORMAL. LOL Your reactions are what is TO BE EXPECTED….in this kind of horrible crisis and chaotic situation. You are in COMBAT. Your X is the “evil war lord” who would hurt you if and all he could. BUT, I know that you have the ARMOR OF GOD and that you wear this proudly. Lily, you must TRUST as gideon did, that even with so few troops that he would overcome the HUGE ARMIES against him. If Gideon hadn’t TRUSTED then he would have lost. “ALL things work together for GOOD to those that Love the Lord”—-we must TRUST that promise from our God, Lily.
Lily, your children are ADULTS with wills and choices of their own. If they really wanted contact with you, they woujld have conctacted you no matter WHAT their father said. If they DID believe that you were the crazy one and he was “mr. nice guy” (which, frankly, knowing you as well as I do and what yo uhave said about them in the past, I don’t for one minute believe) Your X “threatening” to kill him if they ever had contact with you again, I think, too is an IDLE NARCISSISTIC RAGE-THREAT for him. I don’t think he has the COURAGE to attack someone who is ABLE and/or willing to Fight back, much less defend themselves. I think he is jusT POSTURING and STRUTTING and trying to REGAIN CONTROL, which them contacting you shows he has LOST. Actually, I think his RAGING AND THREATENING is going to BACK FIRE ON HIM and show any of your kids that ARE TRULY DUPED the TRUTH and they will see what he is vs. what you are. Those of your kids that are LIKE HIM to one degree or another, are “gone” and “lost” to you just like my P-son is “gone” and “lost” to me.
I no longer have TOXIC and FUTILE HOPE that eh will “see the light” because I know that in his mind, heart, and soul there IS NO LIGHT. It is only since I have accepted this TRUTH and quit HOPING for a “miracle” (that never comes) that i can be at PEACE with the situation. The PAIN HAS ENDED, because I no longer expect anything except WHAT IS.
Pain comes when there is a difference between EXPECTATION AND HOPE versus REALITY.
Your REALITY vs your EXPECTATIONS is out of sync where your kids are concerned. I ACCEPTED THE REALITY that my son is forever lost to me, if per chance, lightening struck him and his prison doors opened like St. Paul’s did (or was it St. Peter?–doesn’t matter which or both) and my P-son stepped out of that prison a SAINT complete with white robe and a halo and a voice coming from the sky saying “he has repented” then, and only then, might I believe it. HOPING FOR THAT MIRACLE which I did for so many years, kept me in despair and pain. ACCEPTING the REALITY OF WHAT IS was what freed me from pain. You know I love you, Lily, sister of my heart ((((hugs))) and God watch over you.
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Friday, 31 July 2009 @ 3:37pm
ANewLily says:
Oh, Oxy, I don’t think you are “getting it” fully but I have to leave for a doctor’s appointment, actually now LOL, so don’t have time to “explain” yesterday’s fear.
Let me just say that all of the news articles of men actually killing their children doesn’t help me “cope” with a possible idle threat!!!!
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Friday, 31 July 2009 @ 4:36pm
Tilly says:
Brilhancy:
“If they were bad when leaving with us they will get even worse once they leave us ..they will try to hurt us even more . They love the power game… the love to see us in pain… The best lesson I learnt is to dismiss them completely.
Don’t try to argue, to reason to be civilised. They do not know what those things are. The more you try to negotiate with them.. you are feeding their sick ego. DISMISS THEM completely. THEY HATE THAT. If there are children involved forget about… child maitenance They have a great pleasure in denying that to you. Give bread and water to the kids ..they will be better off. If you have to, give up everything and run.. ..Forget about courts ..the legal system will drain the little bit you have left and also your energy. GIVE and run and DISMISS. That approach worked very well for me and my children .. we never asked for 1 cent and I even never mentioned child support. …The S has no life and no goals, so time spent in Court and fighting gives them a lot of pleasure because they know you have your mind still hooked on them. They still have control over you , your souls and your mind. DO NOT GIVE THEM this pleasure”.
Brilhancy you have said this BRILLIANTLY!! This is what i did and it is the best thing i ever did in my life. It saved ONE of my childrens life! If I hadn’t done this he would have ended up like my older two. I am so proud that i did exactly as you have written here. Because it was one of the HARDEST things I did in my life time! IT TOOK MY WHOLE LIFETIME! And to do this is such a sacrifice and for me it WORKED 100%. i have a beautifyl loving caring young 20 year old son, and he is only like this because WE GOT AWAY IN THE MANNER YOU SUGGEST! I left NO STONE UNTURNED TO GET HIM OUT OF OUR LIFE.
I didn’t do it with the older two kids and i am paying for the consequences of that now. I have just come to terms that my oldest daughter is a p. She has the face of an angel and can cry at a seconds notice.
I once spoke to her father (when she was a teenager) about helping me to boost her self esteem as she was portraying the ” I’m so ugly no one wants me” to get money out of me”. At the time i believed her act. (She knows her greatest asset is her innocent angelic face).
Her father snarled at me cruelly and said, “I know what to tell her”.
I only see all this in retrospect. I had no idea they would both go off together and have a “mums insane” party yet again, while i handed over the dollars.
I have pinned OXYS statement:
“Lily, your children are ADULTS with wills and choices of their own. If they really wanted contact with you, they would have contacted you no matter WHAT their father said.” up because this is what i need to come to terms with with my middle son.
I am no closer to believing this than i was 6 months ago.However i have done a huge amount of work on myself in regard to my sick p daughter and “LETTING HER GO INTO THE ETHERS BACK TO GOD” because all i feel at the moment to her is grief and anger.
But to my middle son, who NEVER contacts me except mothers day, my birthday and Christmas day, for one awkward ten minute conversation, I still am paddling up the river NILE as fast as I can go. Zi am just not ready to deal with ANYTHING in regard to loss of “my 12 year old boy” who is now 27 and I havn’t been bonded with him since he was 12. When i look at a photo of him at 27 he looks like that same 12 year old boy.
There is SOOOO much work to do there (here comes the tears that come three times a year) and i am NOT UP TO IT BELIEVE ME!!
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Friday, 31 July 2009 @ 7:12pm
Tilly says:
Should read ” to get the P out of our life”
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Friday, 31 July 2009 @ 7:19pm
ThornBud says:
LILI:
Dunno how to name my mother,most probably as Toxic Enabler. She was more successful with my brother than with me (i was stronger) and kept that attitude of hers, blackmaling and thretening him for everything, after she saw it has an influence and desired feedback. She even did not allow him to put his own son in kindergarten, threatening she is gonna commit suicide if he does.Once, visiting them, i saw she started again (it ALWAYS worked with my brother) , and told her: OKay. do ittttttt, AND LET US GRIEVE IN PEACE. I opened the window and pointed on it, telling her: JUMP ! (i knew she won’t do it, even if she wanted, she would not be able). She just said i am crazy and asked me not to interfere in THEIR thing
I understand ur fear for ur children, especially NOW when hope got back they will return to u, it must be felt like u are affraid that u MIGHT loose them again, but i am begging u not to allow him to see u are affraid (thats food for his evil thing which ppl are calling HEART). He is gonna use everything what he can see it works!
Only strong u can help ur children, SHOW THAT STRENGTH!
I am (and all of us here) holding u and hugging u my dear
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Saturday, 1 August 2009 @ 2:46am
sabrina says:
Lily,
I thank God that He armed you with strength to overcome the fear from the other day. I love the scripture that says if God be for you, then who can be against you? Who is more powerful than our awesome God? Not Satan or any of his army of followers. I think everyone here has said it all perfectly. I cant add to it, and I am so proud of everyone’s precious comments to you as they are everlasting TRUTH. I know that you have been advised to “put on the entire armour of God” so that you can be ready to fight the wickedness of the P.
Remember that with God, no weapon formed against you can prosper. The other day I was driving, obsessing with fear of what the P “could” do to me and my family- almost panicing actually. Then my heart felt the tug of this scripture (above)and the fear washed away just by meditating on it. I realized my problem was not in my circumstances – none of the situation had “changed”- just my “thoughts” had focused on what he (the P) said- NOT what GOD says!
By not controlling my thoughts or “meditating” On Gods PROMISES, made by faith weak and therefore my mind, body, and power was weak. During that week- I got sick, had to go to dr., was told I was suffering (amongst other things from exhaustion, I also wrestled defeating thoughts, etc… , I have been a WRECK!
But God knew what He was getting when he made me, and chose me to be his child!!!! He forgives when no one else does.
I believe that we are products of what we put in our bodies- I tell my children- Garbage IN- Garbage out. We must renew our spirits to be as God promises with him-MORE THAN a conqueror. I wish you joy, and peace…. xoxo
Jane, I would love to hear your stories that you mentioned! I promise , we will NOT think YOU are pyscho!LOL If you are ever up to blogging about them, I support you in it!!
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Saturday, 1 August 2009 @ 8:08am
TNewman says:
I was just wondering…is it “classic” of a sociopath not to provide closure? My ex had a “motto” of saying when he was “done he was done” which I KNOW is a classic trait of sociopaths. I have to wonder…if it is THEY who leave us…do they just disappear to the hills and you never hear from them again as mine did and left me in total bewilderment…we had no children. It was the most abrupt ending I’ve ever experienced! Or, if it is WE who leave them…do they continue to harass us because they can’t take the rejection? Just curious if anyone knows the answer to the closure question?
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Saturday, 1 August 2009 @ 8:29am
Brilhancy says:
TNewman,
Curious question. In my case I colaborated for him to go to his adventure as he was saying, but I asked for an asset separation done by the Family Court with our agreement. As he was away and my son asked what happened to the father, I mentioned that to the father via email. The father replied ‘tell the kids I love them very much but what they are feeling is the pain of abandonment’ (his admission that he was abandoning the children ). Then he asked about a divorce and I also said ‘you never spoke about a divorce before’. He was trying to hurt me as much as possible because he knew I was very vulnerable. When I was organising the papers to give him a divorce (he was overseas) I found out he was previously married and never divorced from that marriage. So he was bigamous. When I contacted him to organise my divorce I asked him ‘which divorce he was talking about,’ because I was organising my divorce and not the divorce from his previous marriage. He denied that he was ever married to me (we were married for 22 years). Mind you, he asked for the divorce in the first place , then when I found out he was bigamous and asked for the divorce, he denied that he was ever married to me…I told him that I had all the papers and if he ever changed his mind to ask for them, because for me it would not matter one way or another. Never heard from him until 5 years later he contacted me to ask how was my finances (not how were the children) . I replied: very good. Then he asked me if I had anything else to say, I replied: no I just wish you well. He rang up.
I would say there is no closure. In his mind he is keeping this safe heaven for future eventualities….Never heard from him again and he refused to give me the divorce.
With this information I asked his own mother and sisters to help him give me the divorce or canel our marriage. He has also disapeared from their lives. Thank you God…..!
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Saturday, 1 August 2009 @ 9:47am
Jen2008 says:
TNewman said: “I have to wonder…if it is THEY who leave us…do they just disappear to the hills and you never hear from them again as mine did and left me in total bewilderment…we had no children. It was the most abrupt ending I’ve ever experienced! Or, if it is WE who leave them…do they continue to harass us because they can’t take the rejection? Just curious if anyone knows the answer to the closure question?
It seems when they have used a person up and see no further use from them because they have a new and better target, yeah, they abruptly leave and never look back (unless they occasionally want to amuse themselves by tormenting you if you have children together etc.).
But it seems if WE leave THEM, they take great offense to that and see it as us winning or getting over on them. Maybe it is a combo of rejection to their ego, and need to “win” or get revenge, or simply that they still view us as having something they can “use” and for that reason they keep recycling around and messing with us. Probably depends on the particular s or p and what he or she is after.
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Saturday, 1 August 2009 @ 2:16pm
2MUCH2TAKE says:
Brilhancy~ I absolutely agree that SP’s are raised in environments that teach them how to become sociopaths. My SP’s parents were animals. His parents would abuse him all year and then at Christmas they would really “put out”. He was raised in South Boston, very poor, but his Mom would get a job and spoil the bejesus out of the kids at Christmas. That’s why he thinks if he gives you something of value, everything should be okay????? And everything was pushed under the rug. EVERYTHING.
We were both raised Irish Catholic.
OMG Brilhancy, I think you are right about becoming like them to cover your own ass…ets! And I swear, we do become like them in many ways. We just have to deal with the guilt.
I am at the point of him waiting for me to break down and fall apart. I know he has sent people down to my house to “check” on me. My brother for one, and a childhood friend of mine. (that just happened to work for him recently). He has duped my whole family. Charming, generous to the point of overkill, and they all think that it’s ME that is being “difficult”. Even though I told them I saw on his “history” on his computer that he was getting mail from e-harmony, married by lonely, match.com. Then he went on Craigs list and there were websites that said, suck and _uck, casual sex a couple nights a week, etc. He told me that he looked them up cuz he saw them on the news and they were shutting them down. And his friends father found a girl from there. (turned out she was crazy and had to move out after about a month!) Funny thing was, right before he looked up those websites, I could see he had looked up Cialis about 5 times PRIOR to looking up the cyber whores. WHO IS THIS PERSON? Shock city for me folks.
The less I speak to him the more clear my brain becomes. I still want to lie to myself. I left the house and havent been back since that day. I asked him “who am I in your life?” Actually screamed it at him in desparation and he started to cry! I said to him this is just to much to take, I can’t deal with this anymore. I am going to stay away.
Anyhew~ If your spouse was committing bigamy why can’t you just have your marriage nullified? He really tried to mindf___ you when you asked about the other marriage. You are “Wise as a serpent, and gentle as a dove” my friend. You are beating him at his own game. He will always be back because you are not conquered. And you are right, I don’t think there is ever closure.
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Saturday, 1 August 2009 @ 2:24pm
OxDrover says:
Dear 2much,
It is comfusing and hurts when those that we think should be behind our backs (friends and family) are also duped by the Ps, and either don’t believe us or think we are the “crazy” ones. Being VALIDATED (and also getting “closure” of a sort) is many times what we have to get strong enough to DO FOR OURSELVES. ‘Taint easy! You ARE VALIDATED here, though.
You are also right, ,the “less I speak to him, the more clear my brain becomes.” that is WHY NC WORKS! (((hugs))))
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Saturday, 1 August 2009 @ 4:30pm
hummingbird says:
To all those on LF…I’m a newcomer on this site, in search of whatever support, help, or answers that I can get from fellow “victims” of the non-criminal (so to speak) sociopath. I met him 3 yrs ago on a dating site…sweet, handsome, kind, supportive, hysterically funny…my best friend and confidant…a liar, cheater that drove me to an overdose 2 yrs ago. It is only by the grace of God that I am here today to struggle with the haunting memories of not only a suicide attempt, but the pain of a failed relationship that I’m sure all of you have felt at one time.
The ONLY way I have even been able to accept this break up, is by KNOWING that he is indeed a S/P. For a long time I tried to “just be friends” knowing that he had issues preventing us from ever becoming a committed couple…but I fell once more into his cunning arms…and realized after much research on the subject…he would never change…was actually an enemy not a friend.
How do I ever trust again…How do I get past the “what did this happen to me for?” NC for 2 mths now…
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Saturday, 1 August 2009 @ 5:35pm
hummingbird says:
He pretty much fits all the criteria on Robert Hare’s PChecklist. But other things I have read about and wonder if anyone else has noticed…filthy language…collects guns and knives for show(not a hunter)…not just problems with language as far as mixing up words, and making inconsistent statements which is typical, but a TERRIBLE speller…I’m curious if anyone else has seen this since the “language center” of the brain in a S is likely affected
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Saturday, 1 August 2009 @ 5:47pm
ANewLily says:
Oxy, I almost hate to mention this because Tilly was comforted by this, “If they really wanted contact with you, they woujld have conctacted you no matter WHAT their father said/” But, the REALITY is they haven’t been able to without consequences for themselves — and for me. That’s why I got so excited when the older ones did contact me “out of the blue.” SOMETHING had to have happened to enable them to do that — just like SOMETHING had to have happened for them to stop so abruptly. (Except DD#3, she broke contact with her father over a year ago and lives her own life, so to speak.)
My former narcissiopath is similar to the others like him but different, also!!!!! A deep ability to enforce Stockholm syndrome is a major trait of his. My children have been trapped just as I was.
The one thing I know is that he could never harm them fatally if he hadn’t figured out a plan to get away with it. He IS clever and intelligent enough to figure something out — probaly not unlike what your P-son tried to do to you.
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Saturday, 1 August 2009 @ 6:04pm
ANewLily says:
Sabrina, thank you for your words of assurance and comfort!
Your mention (and Oxy’s too) of “…put on the entire armour of God” so that you can be ready to fight the wickedness…” reminded me that I created a collage of symbols of all the “armor” for above the fireplace in our first home after medical school. Not that I believe in talismans, I don’t, but it did remind me every day that I and my children were in the hands of God and the satan in my spouse had no power over us.
Your mention of “garbage in…garbage out” also was a great reminder for me. Day before yesterday I allowed “garbage in” (the intense fear) into my thoughts and “garbage out” manifested in my momentary desire to end it all for the first time in my life.
I had forgotten to allow Christ to influence my thoughts!!!! Well, I count the experience as one of those “all things work together for good…” because without the presence of that FEAR I would never have been able to “hear” God’s plan of action. (which I will be into action tomorrow when I know all the kyds will be at their homes.)
I also have to remember that my FEAR of the threat was due to the 1800 miles that separate us. I felt so POWERLESS — because I AM — but God isn’t!!
I’m doing fine today — except for the fatigue of the anemia — which is improving with treatment.
Blessings to you!!
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Saturday, 1 August 2009 @ 6:25pm
ANewLily says:
TNewman, I’d give anything if my EX had left me and disappeared forever! Count yourself lucky that you were “just” left with confusion and bewilderment! I understand that’s the way it goes when *they* leave.
I even suspect that if they have been kicked out, they fight so hard to get back in just so they can do the leaving the next time. I’ve seen that happen over and over again.
Because, yes, I think if we are the one to leave they continue to harass us (as in my case) Is it because they can’t take the rejection? I really don’t know. As far as I do know, no one really knows the “because” part.
To date, I’ve not heard of anyone who has experienced “closure” with one, except the acceptance we find from within ourselves.
This is my 2cents to your question.
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Saturday, 1 August 2009 @ 6:39pm
ANewLily says:
2much2take,
Hmmm. You left the house and didn’t go back. No wonder you are “…at the point of him waiting for me to break down and fall apart.” I’d bet my homestead that he is waiting for that to happen — and will probably do all he can to hasten it.
He sounds like a very bad egg, no matter his “label.” You deserve much better than him. You sound like a good, strong woman. Most important, he doesn’t deserve YOU!
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Saturday, 1 August 2009 @ 6:47pm
ANewLily says:
Hummingbird, how glad I am that you are a true survivor and have found this board. It is true that sociopaths can lead one to try a “fast” escape! That’s the way they are, crazy-making.
One thing I hope you already know is that YOU did not cause the failure of the relationship. HE did. He chose you in the first place because you had something good that he wanted — and would never be able to find within himself.
Congratulations for being “out” for 2 months. That’s a great start for self-discovery — like “why” did this happen to you.
I found the answer in Chapter 5 of Leedom and Brown’s “Women Who Love Psychopaths.” It is available from this website.
Blessings!
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Saturday, 1 August 2009 @ 6:55pm
ANewLily says:
Oxy, I don’t believe that I ever told you that at least my children don’t believe the Ex’s projection that I am the crazy one part of the smear campaign since November or December of 2002.
Also, I’m wondering if any others who have been the victims of a smear campaign if you have noticed that there seem to be two parts to it — just like there are two parts, it seems, to their personality (Dr. Jekyl/Mr. Hyde.)
It took me quite a long time to discover that what my EX told our adult children and what he told the general public were different things.
Actually, I’m hoping (yes, hoping) that dictomy will be the exact thing that will expose him — IF children and people compare notes, that is.
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Saturday, 1 August 2009 @ 7:04pm
Brilhancy says:
2MUCH2TAKE
‘Anyhew~ If your spouse was committing bigamy why can’t you just have your marriage nullified? He really tried to mindf___ you when you asked about the other marriage. You are “Wise as a serpent, and gentle as a dove” my friend. You are beating him at his own game. He will always be back because you are not conquered. And you are right, I don’t think there is ever closure”.
As I told him, it does not make any difference for me one way or another. I have the family Court papers where he signed saying that none of us would ever claim anything from the other, I have all the assets transferred into my name only I have a Power of Attorney from him giving me all powers (the only thing I can not do is to turn off a life saving machine if that ever happens – what a pitty). Being still marriage to him will make it even worse for him to get married again. If he does that he will put himself in even more hot waters.
See, the thing here is to have the power and not allowed him the power. If I do anything else he still thinking that my mind is still hooked in his mind. DISMISSING everything is the best approach..and he knows now that I have the power. he f..cked himself up badly…..and I do not care..I now have my full life to live and I am doing exactly that. He is the one now wondering what to do….
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Saturday, 1 August 2009 @ 7:12pm
OxDrover says:
Brthancy,
It sounds like you got a RARE “one up” on the jerk who outsmarted himself, it seems.
I am so glad for you that you got at least that satisfaction and that much justice. so few of us do.
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Saturday, 1 August 2009 @ 7:39pm
Jen2008 says:
2Muchtotake said: “He will always be back because you are not conquered.”
My ex told me he would not rest until he destroyed me and broke me emotionally and fiancially. Then later he reeled me back in for a short time with the nice act (and pretense he did not mean the above but was speaking in anger due to a broken heart (puke) etc. Short time later he resumed his manipulations and schemes to do me in, then I ditched him for the last time. It has been 18 months and he still tries to reach me and leaves messages (mostly nice and manipulative or tries to induce guilt etc., but the last one was more revealing of his true colors).
Anyway I rarely mention him period in real life, but did mention recently to a casual friend that he still tries to call. She immediately made comments about how he must still care or miss me and I breifly tried to explain NO –without going into much detail–but I also couldn’t really put it together in my mind exactly why he won’t just go away after all this time either, but still periodically pops up in spite of him never getting to actually talk with me. I usually attribute it to he is just bored or I am just on his list of people to call for the day if he is drinking and I happen to pop in his mind (he loves the phone), or maybe he is between women and just wanting to “check”……etc.
But when I read your statement: “He will always be back because you are not conquered,” I thought BINGO that is it, that is the reason as he had also made the comment to me that he ALWAYS WINS over his Whores, that he ALWAYS gets the upper hand (and would over me). So, he is still trying to conquer–that explains it–he is still trying to manipulate a “win” because I am the one who got away without him completely destroying me as he intended and in order to do that and manipulate he needs access to me so he keeps trying to establish contact–trying different manipulations that he hopes will work to get me to answer the phone or return a call .
Thanks for that statement!!!!
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Saturday, 1 August 2009 @ 9:34pm
shabbychic says:
hummingbird… I am glad that by “the Grace of God” you are still here and also that you found this site! The N/S I was with for a long time… he couldn’t spell either, and he said words wrong (wrong here on the west coast, last time I brought up this subject it caused an interesting debate on different accents!) So, I don’t really know myself if this is something that is typical with an S, I’m not a professional, just throwing my 2 cents out there.
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Saturday, 1 August 2009 @ 9:56pm
hummingbird says:
ANewLily, Thank-you for the encouragement…for some reason I have felt compelled lately to read everything I can get my hands on RE S/P…of course I want to try to understand it, accept, recognize it…but I wonder if perhaps the reason I am still here…the reason I have gone through this whole horrific heart wrenching experience, is simply to help someone else by the mere fact that I am an “educated” survivor…if there is such a thing. Maybe this very site that I am turning to for comfort will connect me somehow to someone much like myself a couple of years ago…someone who is feeling that moment of desperation and worthlessness that they think can only end with death. Had I perhaps realized that I was taken in by an entity one could easily label as evil…I am sure the events of that lonely Saturday evening would have been different.
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Saturday, 1 August 2009 @ 10:23pm
hummingbird says:
shabbychic, yes we have a gracious God…when I finally told my S(not til a yr later) of my suicide attempt…I was emphasizing the fact that it was indeed amazing I came out of it unscathed (physically) as the acetaminophen ingredient alone in the drugs I had taken was well over 8000 mg. not to mention the pain killers themselves, yet no liver damage. He chuckled and said “oh that’s kids stuff, you should have tried such and such”. By the end of the evening he had convinced me he wanted to take our relationship to the next level…EVEN after that comment!
Interesting about the spelling…and when he wrote IE emails…it was sooo confusing as he would leave out words etc. I used to think they were typos, but now I know that’s just the scrambled way their mind works..
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Saturday, 1 August 2009 @ 10:38pm
shabbychic says:
hummingbird… I am sure you will be able to help people on this site, including me! Thank goodness you had no liver damage. I can’t believe what he said to you, well, I guess I can! Yes, they are quite convincing, I understand that, or maybe we convince ourselves because we want to believe, because the hurt just hurts so damn bad. I’m still trying to figure out why I lived in Fantasyland my entire life. DenialWorld.
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Saturday, 1 August 2009 @ 10:47pm
Tilly says:
Brilhancy:
You truly are brilliant! I love to hear these stories like yours and Matts of coming out on top of these creeps, it is so rare! TOWANDA! to you. I hope you get everything in life you desire, because that will make him suffer more and more!! lol! xo
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Sunday, 2 August 2009 @ 12:05am
Brilhancy says:
Tilly,
As I mentioned earlier , I lived many years of a tormented life by the creep like everyone else in LF. Because I was so fragile and so vulnerable I did not care at the time what happened to me I was fragile but had my wisdom intacted. I had to act really cold to survive. I had no idea I was dealing with a S but I knew it was something really bad and I had to survie and assure the survival of the children I did not acted as a mean person. I was colaborating with him because I knew by then how his mind worked (but he did not know I knew that by then) and he continued playing up as he always did, taking advantage of my fragility and vulnerability at that time. It was tough very painful and I lost 15kg at that time and many sleeplessness night, and taking one day at a time. I was so determinied to outsmart him that I had the strenght to carry my sociopatic actions to my benefit (to deal with a S we have to be a worse S then the S himself). Only lately I started understand what I was dealing with. Oh! boy I am so glad I ended up a winner and him the BIG LOOSER..
Now that is what each one of you have to do. Understand how a S mind works and play the game for your advantage. DISMISS EVERYTHING THEY SAY.. DISMISS THEIR EXISTENCE and their importance in your lifes. Slowly you will feel an increase in your sthrenght.
We have to be very smart to outsmat them.. and cold as ice in our actions. After living with them for so many years we know how to do that. Just copy their behaviour and you will be a winner. Give them the minimum importance in your lives.
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Sunday, 2 August 2009 @ 6:13am
Brilhancy says:
Tilly,
But there is more…..after he left and when I managed to get my career back on track I got a High Security Government position which I needed Security clearance at Top Secret Level. For this the Intelligence service had to investigate my life and the lives of everyone associated with me. I had to show all the documents I had as proof of the creep that left abandoning his children and all those proofs ended up at the Immigration Department and there is a Note on his file that he can never enter this contry again. I also showed all the proofs of Bigamy and false qualifications he said he had and all the lies he is living in the country where he is now living (mind you it is a Third world country and he hates that). We all know about him.. The bloody creeps are not very smart if you really think hard. They leave a lot of trails that condem them. You just have to be smart to use those against them.
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Sunday, 2 August 2009 @ 6:38am
2MUCH2TAKE says:
Jen2008, OxDrover, ANewLily & Brilhancy~ Thak you so much for your comments and support. There are truly very few people who understand the pain these relationships can cause. Jen, you keep that chin up and sleep with one eye open!! They truly can’t stand “losing”. I believe they would even hurt themselves just to get to us if they could.
I have had the “oh he must really love you” comments, etc. It is very frustrating. I thank you all for validating me. And I know that “if it’s to be, it’s up to me”. Lord willing and the creek don’t rise.
And yes, he is waiting for me to “crack”. And, still has contact with my family. They don’t want to, or simply cannot see what a smooth con he is. Plus it doesn’t help that he does all sorts of things for them, no matter the cost. So I told my psychiatrist that I was the family prostitute. I keep my distance from my family. Then he doesn’t know what is going on in my life. I don’t tell them anything. That is why I feel so alone. And truthfully, I am alone. An island. But I am going to make an effort to become more social. I know that it takes time. Again, thank you all. I FEEL validated!!
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Monday, 3 August 2009 @ 6:09pm
2MUCH2TAKE says:
Oh, and about the spelling and accents. My S doesn’t spell well either. He has a South Boston accent that is quite charming, was starting to lose it and I mentioned that I noticed it on his answering machine in the way he said “number”. He used to say “numba”. Yup you guessed it, he changed that message pronto!! Doesn’t matter that he’s lived on the West Coast for 20 years. His family that lives back east still don’t even have the accent anymore like he does. He know that women find it charming. He is truly an attention whore!!
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Monday, 3 August 2009 @ 6:21pm
lisa_888 says:
Very happy to find this site….have been in bed depressed since I kicked him out 3 wks ago….very very depressed….can’t even work…it was 4 yrs, he never worked (always had an excuse) hated his mother, ex’s etc etc charmer to the extreme…I bet he w/ some other woman now….why am I soooooooo drained???? Why do I miss him???? I am just about 50 and feel I will never learn…need help…but don’t know what to do…people tell me I am attractive, used to get hit on all the time when we were out…now I feel so old and used up….assault charge – he is furious I finally went thru with one, when I should of from all the other beatings….and I never did….any suggestions would help ps my family said I made my bed, so lie in it….nice
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Monday, 10 August 2009 @ 12:48am
ErinBrockovich says:
Lisa888:
and then take a good long look at LISA in the mirror and make a decision based on what you see looking back at you…..Really look at yourself……you may not recognize who you see……but speak to her…..hold a conversation…….and allow her to speak back to you……AND LISTEN!
Oh dear…..your in the right place! READ, READ, READ all the past articles and all the comments you can……
Unfortunaltey, you will find, your not alone in this horrid situation.
You need to take baby steps to remove yourself from the bed…..force yourself back up and to shower, brush teeth….(we’ve all not done it)
Get dressed, get out……REGAIN CONTROL!
You will find your strength here……allow the process of grieving and healing yourself…..try to eliminate him and your current legal issues…..it will overwhelm you……
DO NOT DROP CHARGES….DO NOT DO NOT DO NOT!!!!!!!!!
Of course he is furious…….hes a fuck up and now he is exposed……duhhhhhhhhh. These are consequences for abuse…..EXPOSURE!
You do not miss HIM……you miss your fantasy of what you made him to be in your head…..
You will process these thoughts and realize this……
KEY HERE……NO CONTACT!!!
I hope you have a restraining order……IF NOT…….GO GET ONE IMMEDIATELY!!!!!!
This freaked me out…..I thought, can’t he just go away…..oh no they do not! It’s required, please hear this…….It also helps with the NO CONTACT.
It makes it easier…….he can’t contact you and ‘velcro’ you back in with the ‘i love you’s’., your the only owman for me’s…..the blah, blah blah’s that hooked you for 4 years to endure teh abuse, to believe him to keep you hooked……
No contact is vital.
I have had a one year extension on a tpo, additionally a one year harassment and stalking order. I am goiong back to court in a few weeks to seek another extension of the TPO…..A lifetime wouldn’t be long enough for me! (after 28 years).
Seriously, do not beat yourself up…..it’s tough, rough and an emotional rollercoaster……..
Read, read read……
It DOES get better, but we have to allow time and the process.
I bid you strength!!!!
XXOO
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