Comments on: Spotting the Covert Psychopath “In the Wild” http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/07/12/spotting-the-covert-psychopath-%e2%80%9cin-the-wild%e2%80%9d/ Wake up to the danger of sociopaths Wed, 08 Feb 2012 21:33:17 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: OxDrover http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/07/12/spotting-the-covert-psychopath-%e2%80%9cin-the-wild%e2%80%9d/comment-page-3/#comment-81354 OxDrover Thu, 08 Jul 2010 06:42:18 +0000 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/07/12/spotting-the-covert-psychopath-%e2%80%9cin-the-wild%e2%80%9d/#comment-81354 Thank you Pure4Water3. Brandywine, Yea I guess you are stuck with her and him until at least any mutual childrfen are out6 of the nest. I would though if at all possible MOVE and/or get another job if possibnle so you dont' have to live right on TOP of them. I know there are kids to consider and schools and all that, but do your berst to acquire a new circle4 of friends and clubs you attend, don't run in the same area or at the same time. Don't communicate with them through your children and if others in the familyh or5 your children try to give you messages about them or pass on information, just FIRMLY and politely say "John and I don't wish to speak about Frank and Joan.: Then change the subject and if they say "Well, I was just trying t6o tell you...." REPEAT it again@!!! If that doesn't work, then WALK OFF. If the kids come home with "dad or mom lsaid to tell you" xyz, " E mail Dad or Mom nicely and ASK them in the future to please communicate by e4 mail NOT THROUGH THE KIDS. tHAT YOU ARE NO LONGER GOING T6O BE "ANSWERING" THE KIDS BECAUSE MESSAGES GET TOO MIXED UP THANKS. Telol yourf kids that you want written messages about whatever he wants to tell you or arrange with oyu so tghere is no mistake and they don't miss a ball game or something. After a few times of you refusing to "answer" them they will get him to e mail you. Without access to give you trouble, or float tales around it may lower some of your stress levels. Keep ytour chins up. I amm glad you and the other husband found happiness, and each shed 150-200 pounds of ugly rancid FAT! Thank you Pure4Water3.
Brandywine, Yea I guess you are stuck with her and him until at least any mutual childrfen are out6 of the nest. I would though if at all possible MOVE and/or get another job if possibnle so you dont’ have to live right on TOP of them. I know there are kids to consider and schools and all that, but do your berst to acquire a new circle4 of friends and clubs you attend, don’t run in the same area or at the same time.

Don’t communicate with them through your children and if others in the familyh or5 your children try to give you messages about them or pass on information, just FIRMLY and politely say “John and I don’t wish to speak about Frank and Joan.: Then change the subject and if they say “Well, I was just trying t6o tell you….” REPEAT it again@!!! If that doesn’t work, then WALK OFF.

If the kids come home with “dad or mom lsaid to tell you” xyz, ” E mail Dad or Mom nicely and ASK them in the future to please communicate by e4 mail NOT THROUGH THE KIDS. tHAT YOU ARE NO LONGER GOING T6O BE “ANSWERING” THE KIDS BECAUSE MESSAGES GET TOO MIXED UP THANKS.

Telol yourf kids that you want written messages about whatever he wants to tell you or arrange with oyu so tghere is no mistake and they don’t miss a ball game or something.

After a few times of you refusing to “answer” them they will get him to e mail you. Without access to give you trouble, or float tales around it may lower some of your stress levels.

Keep ytour chins up. I amm glad you and the other husband found happiness, and each shed 150-200 pounds of ugly rancid FAT!

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]]> By: purewaters3 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/07/12/spotting-the-covert-psychopath-%e2%80%9cin-the-wild%e2%80%9d/comment-page-3/#comment-81330 purewaters3 Thu, 08 Jul 2010 01:32:57 +0000 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/07/12/spotting-the-covert-psychopath-%e2%80%9cin-the-wild%e2%80%9d/#comment-81330 Great job on the article, Oxdrover. I think your overall point is great - about just distancing yourself from ANYONE who demonstrates abusive behavior towards anyone/anything. If they will do it to someone else, they WILL do it to you. Great job on the article, Oxdrover.

I think your overall point is great – about just distancing yourself from ANYONE who demonstrates abusive behavior towards anyone/anything.

If they will do it to someone else, they WILL do it to you.

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]]> By: brandywine http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/07/12/spotting-the-covert-psychopath-%e2%80%9cin-the-wild%e2%80%9d/comment-page-3/#comment-81286 brandywine Wed, 07 Jul 2010 14:45:28 +0000 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/07/12/spotting-the-covert-psychopath-%e2%80%9cin-the-wild%e2%80%9d/#comment-81286 I have been a victim of a sociopath, and am only just now realizing a year and a month later, just what she is. Two years ago, a female co-worker began showing an interest in my husband's running. He also works with me. Eventually, her and her husband began doing races with mine, and they would work out together in the mornings. This woman started befriending me too, and we got really close. I noticed that she and my husband were spending a lot of time together, but nothing seemed fishy. They were very public with their friendship, and since her husband was involved, I felt no need to worry. Almost a year into their "friendship", I started getting weird feelings. My husband hid $3000 from me from income tax return, and when I discovered it, he said he used it to try and pay his car off, but only made the payment AFTER our conversation. Her husband stopped coming to races. Family lunch after the races with her and my husbands' family (who also ran) started to feel like I was the outsider and she was his wife. I noticed her watching him closely when he interacted with her 13 year old daughter. Ultimately, I started to feel like she was interested in him, and I had heard through the grapevine that she had cheated a few years back. Again, I hadn't worried though, because she was a strong Christian woman-who spoke out vehemently against her supervisor recently busted for cheating. And, I didn't sense that the feeling was reciprocal from him. When he left me, I told him that people would think he was leaving me for her-not realizing he was. She left her husband that same night. They moved in together a week and a half later. I met with her husband to compare stories, and found out that she admitted a 6 month affair, after she thought I had found out. Her husband and I really bonded through this experience, and fell completely in love-and are now married. I am happier than I've ever been, but because I'm with him-I can't get rid of her or my ex, as if working with them isn't bad enough. Looking back now, and stumbling across descriptions of sociopaths, I clearly see that she is, and so was my ex, to an extent. Neither of them felt true remorse for their behavior. Of course they cried and said they were sorry, but both felt justified in their behavior. Even though she hurt me and her ex, she convinced herself and my ex and his whole family that somehow she is the victim in all this. In fact, she has his family so wrapped and duped that even though they were MY family for 14 years, they completely cut me off and fully embraced her IMMEDIATELY, as though I never existed. And because sociopaths work in stealth mode, I can never see her operating, and therefore defend myself. As a classic sociopath trait, she has numerous times tried to convince me that she was justified in her behavior by citing neglect on the part of her husband. I of course let her know that I didn't accept that as an excuse since my husband had been spending four hours with her exercising every day, and I wasn't cheating. Of course-that was four hours away from her husband too-who had to stop running because of knee injuries. She won't rest until I tell her that was she did was okay. Sociopaths need willing victims. I can't believe that I was friends with her nearly a year, and never saw this other side of her. When she is called out-she turns into a wild animal. She lies so easily. As long as you believe her lies, she will continue to flatter you and make you feel comfortable, but the moment you don't, she turns on you. Other sociopath traits she appears to have: Numerous affairs over the years on her first and second husbands. It's amazing what people tell you after the relationship is over. Seemingly hating her ex more than she loves her children...putting them in positions of "choosing" often An extreme sense of entitlement, and belief that she is better than everybody else. She is ALWAYS smiling/laughing AND complimenting. Her relationship with her own family is extremely strained and distant Unfortunately because of the circumstances, especially with a child involved, I feel so stuck. I can't do anything to defend or retaliate. Anything that me or my husband say gets twisted and told to the child-because the sociopath thrives off sympathy-guilt-and manipulation. And since the woman seems like Mother Theresa to everybody else, if I try and tell what she is really like-people think I'm crazy/petty or still angry that she stole my husband-which, actually, I'm not. He was a loser, and I'm way better off now. Anyway, I'm struggling to maintain my sanity while dealing with her and would love any suggestions. Brandy I have been a victim of a sociopath, and am only just now realizing a year and a month later, just what she is.
Two years ago, a female co-worker began showing an interest in my husband’s running. He also works with me. Eventually, her and her husband began doing races with mine, and they would work out together in the mornings. This woman started befriending me too, and we got really close.
I noticed that she and my husband were spending a lot of time together, but nothing seemed fishy. They were very public with their friendship, and since her husband was involved, I felt no need to worry.
Almost a year into their “friendship”, I started getting weird feelings. My husband hid $3000 from me from income tax return, and when I discovered it, he said he used it to try and pay his car off, but only made the payment AFTER our conversation. Her husband stopped coming to races. Family lunch after the races with her and my husbands’ family (who also ran) started to feel like I was the outsider and she was his wife. I noticed her watching him closely when he interacted with her 13 year old daughter. Ultimately, I started to feel like she was interested in him, and I had heard through the grapevine that she had cheated a few years back. Again, I hadn’t worried though, because she was a strong Christian woman-who spoke out vehemently against her supervisor recently busted for cheating. And, I didn’t sense that the feeling was reciprocal from him.
When he left me, I told him that people would think he was leaving me for her-not realizing he was. She left her husband that same night. They moved in together a week and a half later.
I met with her husband to compare stories, and found out that she admitted a 6 month affair, after she thought I had found out. Her husband and I really bonded through this experience, and fell completely in love-and are now married. I am happier than I’ve ever been, but because I’m with him-I can’t get rid of her or my ex, as if working with them isn’t bad enough.
Looking back now, and stumbling across descriptions of sociopaths, I clearly see that she is, and so was my ex, to an extent. Neither of them felt true remorse for their behavior. Of course they cried and said they were sorry, but both felt justified in their behavior.
Even though she hurt me and her ex, she convinced herself and my ex and his whole family that somehow she is the victim in all this. In fact, she has his family so wrapped and duped that even though they were MY family for 14 years, they completely cut me off and fully embraced her IMMEDIATELY, as though I never existed. And because sociopaths work in stealth mode, I can never see her operating, and therefore defend myself. As a classic sociopath trait, she has numerous times tried to convince me that she was justified in her behavior by citing neglect on the part of her husband. I of course let her know that I didn’t accept that as an excuse since my husband had been spending four hours with her exercising every day, and I wasn’t cheating. Of course-that was four hours away from her husband too-who had to stop running because of knee injuries. She won’t rest until I tell her that was she did was okay. Sociopaths need willing victims.
I can’t believe that I was friends with her nearly a year, and never saw this other side of her. When she is called out-she turns into a wild animal. She lies so easily. As long as you believe her lies, she will continue to flatter you and make you feel comfortable, but the moment you don’t, she turns on you.
Other sociopath traits she appears to have:

Numerous affairs over the years on her first and second husbands. It’s amazing what people tell you after the relationship is over.

Seemingly hating her ex more than she loves her children…putting them in positions of “choosing” often

An extreme sense of entitlement, and belief that she is better than everybody else.

She is ALWAYS smiling/laughing AND complimenting.

Her relationship with her own family is extremely strained and distant

Unfortunately because of the circumstances, especially with a child involved, I feel so stuck. I can’t do anything to defend or retaliate. Anything that me or my husband say gets twisted and told to the child-because the sociopath thrives off sympathy-guilt-and manipulation. And since the woman seems like Mother Theresa to everybody else, if I try and tell what she is really like-people think I’m crazy/petty or still angry that she stole my husband-which, actually, I’m not. He was a loser, and I’m way better off now.
Anyway, I’m struggling to maintain my sanity while dealing with her and would love any suggestions.

Brandy

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]]> By: OxDrover http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/07/12/spotting-the-covert-psychopath-%e2%80%9cin-the-wild%e2%80%9d/comment-page-3/#comment-54404 OxDrover Mon, 09 Nov 2009 20:36:32 +0000 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/07/12/spotting-the-covert-psychopath-%e2%80%9cin-the-wild%e2%80%9d/#comment-54404 Dear EC, GREAT LINK! I hadn't heard about this guy but to score 37 out of 40 must be the PCL-R. The scan they did on his brain is also interesting. To say that he cannot control himself though is absolutely in my mind ridiculous! Someone posting under the handle "lovefraud" (Donna?) made the first post and that was a good one on the comments, couple of guys got into an argument about the death penalty, but obviously the guy doesn't want to die, as he is fighting the death penalty. I bet you can figure out my idea on pro or con dealth penalty, but at the same time, I know that innocent people have been sent to death row and then years even decades later exonerated by DNA evidence. I'm not sure what the evidence against this guy was/is as I am not familiar with the case except this one link, but to use psychopathy as a excuse for any crime is as bad I think as the "twinkie" defense, where the guy said eating too many chemicals in too many twinkies was responsible for his criminal behavior. In certain cases I would be in favor of public hanging, drawinig and quartering. Most of the people for which I would "vote" for that death penalty there is NO doubt that they are guilty. John Wayne Gacy for example. Dear EC,

GREAT LINK! I hadn’t heard about this guy but to score 37 out of 40 must be the PCL-R. The scan they did on his brain is also interesting. To say that he cannot control himself though is absolutely in my mind ridiculous!

Someone posting under the handle “lovefraud” (Donna?) made the first post and that was a good one on the comments, couple of guys got into an argument about the death penalty, but obviously the guy doesn’t want to die, as he is fighting the death penalty. I bet you can figure out my idea on pro or con dealth penalty, but at the same time, I know that innocent people have been sent to death row and then years even decades later exonerated by DNA evidence.

I’m not sure what the evidence against this guy was/is as I am not familiar with the case except this one link, but to use psychopathy as a excuse for any crime is as bad I think as the “twinkie” defense, where the guy said eating too many chemicals in too many twinkies was responsible for his criminal behavior.

In certain cases I would be in favor of public hanging, drawinig and quartering. Most of the people for which I would “vote” for that death penalty there is NO doubt that they are guilty. John Wayne Gacy for example.

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]]> By: Elizabeth Conley http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/07/12/spotting-the-covert-psychopath-%e2%80%9cin-the-wild%e2%80%9d/comment-page-3/#comment-54386 Elizabeth Conley Mon, 09 Nov 2009 18:30:08 +0000 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/07/12/spotting-the-covert-psychopath-%e2%80%9cin-the-wild%e2%80%9d/#comment-54386 http://www.suntimes.com/news/24-7/1868574,CST-NWS-dugan06.article Experts know 1 in 200 people are as pschopathic as a crazed murderer? Maybe it's sane to be a bit wary folks! http://www.suntimes.com/news/2.....06.article

Experts know 1 in 200 people are as pschopathic as a crazed murderer?

Maybe it’s sane to be a bit wary folks!

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]]> By: OxDrover http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/07/12/spotting-the-covert-psychopath-%e2%80%9cin-the-wild%e2%80%9d/comment-page-3/#comment-47914 OxDrover Tue, 22 Sep 2009 17:47:59 +0000 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/07/12/spotting-the-covert-psychopath-%e2%80%9cin-the-wild%e2%80%9d/#comment-47914 I'm with Twice and mark Twain, I don't want to let my education get in the way of my learning either! Good points Audrey, but it isn't about "labels" as much as behavior, when we speak of someone as a "psychopath" (ASPD or Sociopath) we are saying, in effect, "S/he displayed these traits." We are NOT making a legal "diagnosis" of this person, but an OBSERVATION of behavior. None of us can read minds, but we do OBSERVE BEHAVIOR. and, like others have said, "if it looks like a duck....etc" but the BOTTOM LINE is that we recognize ANY manipulative or TOXIC person so we will not be caught in their webs. Welcome, glad you are here! glad also that you did not get badly hurt over your encounter! I’m with Twice and mark Twain, I don’t want to let my education get in the way of my learning either!

Good points Audrey, but it isn’t about “labels” as much as behavior, when we speak of someone as a “psychopath” (ASPD or Sociopath) we are saying, in effect, “S/he displayed these traits.” We are NOT making a legal “diagnosis” of this person, but an OBSERVATION of behavior.

None of us can read minds, but we do OBSERVE BEHAVIOR. and, like others have said, “if it looks like a duck….etc” but the BOTTOM LINE is that we recognize ANY manipulative or TOXIC person so we will not be caught in their webs.

Welcome, glad you are here! glad also that you did not get badly hurt over your encounter!

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]]> By: skylar http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/07/12/spotting-the-covert-psychopath-%e2%80%9cin-the-wild%e2%80%9d/comment-page-3/#comment-47912 skylar Tue, 22 Sep 2009 17:28:34 +0000 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/07/12/spotting-the-covert-psychopath-%e2%80%9cin-the-wild%e2%80%9d/#comment-47912 I've posted twice that I just saw the movie "Doubt" with Meryl Streep but I just can't stop thinking about it. And that movie really answers Audrey's questions in so many ways. Watching the older nun deal with the priest was amazing. She never had any DOUBT, and she expressed that it was because of EXPERIENCE. But the whole movie wasn't about her relationship with the priest, it was also about how she treated all the children in the school. She was very strict. She allowed no nonsense because her experience had taught her that each time a child gets away with a little mischief, he becomes more mischievious. Making them think that they can NEVER get away with crap when they are very young, keeps them from going down the wrong road later in life. She was not a psychotherapist or a behavior therapist or even an animal trainer, but EXPERIENCE had taught her all she needed to know about the minds of children. And she COULD see a narcissist coming a mile away. It is such an interesting movie, I hope you all get a chance to rent it and watch it. I’ve posted twice that I just saw the movie “Doubt” with Meryl Streep but I just can’t stop thinking about it. And that movie really answers Audrey’s questions in so many ways.

Watching the older nun deal with the priest was amazing. She never had any DOUBT, and she expressed that it was because of EXPERIENCE. But the whole movie wasn’t about her relationship with the priest, it was also about how she treated all the children in the school. She was very strict. She allowed no nonsense because her experience had taught her that each time a child gets away with a little mischief, he becomes more mischievious. Making them think that they can NEVER get away with crap when they are very young, keeps them from going down the wrong road later in life. She was not a psychotherapist or a behavior therapist or even an animal trainer, but EXPERIENCE had taught her all she needed to know about the minds of children.

And she COULD see a narcissist coming a mile away.

It is such an interesting movie, I hope you all get a chance to rent it and watch it.

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]]> By: kim frederick http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/07/12/spotting-the-covert-psychopath-%e2%80%9cin-the-wild%e2%80%9d/comment-page-3/#comment-47911 kim frederick Tue, 22 Sep 2009 17:16:05 +0000 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/07/12/spotting-the-covert-psychopath-%e2%80%9cin-the-wild%e2%80%9d/#comment-47911 Audrey, I can appreciate your point of view. I think sometimes we are a bit hasty in labeling others as PSN's, it's the," see one behind every bush" syndrome...but under the circumstances, it's understandable. I believe that recovery is a process, and for those of us that are just beginning our journey, it can be quite exhillarating to finally have a way of comprehending what has happened to us. It is a way to take back power and control in our lives, and just being able to NAME it feels wonderful! I'm glad you're here, and I'm glad you shared your concerns. I hope we'll hear from you again. Audrey, I can appreciate your point of view. I think sometimes we are a bit hasty in labeling others as PSN’s, it’s the,” see one behind every bush” syndrome…but under the circumstances, it’s understandable. I believe that recovery is a process, and for those of us that are just beginning our journey, it can be quite exhillarating to finally have a way of comprehending what has happened to us. It is a way to take back power and control in our lives, and just being able to NAME it feels wonderful!

I’m glad you’re here, and I’m glad you shared your concerns. I hope we’ll hear from you again.

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]]> By: Twice Betrayed http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/07/12/spotting-the-covert-psychopath-%e2%80%9cin-the-wild%e2%80%9d/comment-page-3/#comment-47910 Twice Betrayed Tue, 22 Sep 2009 17:10:21 +0000 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/07/12/spotting-the-covert-psychopath-%e2%80%9cin-the-wild%e2%80%9d/#comment-47910 easy, skylar, EB--very good posts. easy, skylar, EB–very good posts.

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]]> By: Twice Betrayed http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/07/12/spotting-the-covert-psychopath-%e2%80%9cin-the-wild%e2%80%9d/comment-page-3/#comment-47908 Twice Betrayed Tue, 22 Sep 2009 16:40:40 +0000 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/07/12/spotting-the-covert-psychopath-%e2%80%9cin-the-wild%e2%80%9d/#comment-47908 Well, I am a bottom line person....I can't see getting into some long winded philosophical debate on whether a person is a psychopath or not. [I agree with easy: if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck.....] I've lived long enough and experienced enough in life to realize it's not worth our time and it really does not achieve much in the way of knowledge or agreement. To quote Mark Twain: "I never let my schooling get in the way of my education." Well, I am a bottom line person….I can’t see getting into some long winded philosophical debate on whether a person is a psychopath or not. [I agree with easy: if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck.....] I’ve lived long enough and experienced enough in life to realize it’s not worth our time and it really does not achieve much in the way of knowledge or agreement. To quote Mark Twain: “I never let my schooling get in the way of my education.”

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