After the sociopath: How do we heal? Part 13 – Happy Emotional Independence Day
PDF Happy Independence Day weekend. It is a lucky coincidence that this is our topic, because emotional freedom is truly about personal revolution. It is an end to collaboration with and submission to abuse. It is an end to the emotional slavery of feeling responsible for other people’s feelings and other things that are beyond our control.
Emotional freedom is something that might be difficult to imagine when we are in the first stages of healing – especially if it’s the first time we’ve ever processed an abuse-related trauma all the way through to the end. At least once, we need to go through all the stages to take a good look at patterns of denial or bargaining that made us vulnerable to abusers or tolerant of their behavior. We need to develop internal strengths – like easy access to anger and confidence in our rights to defend ourselves – that might have been suppressed before. We need to learn for ourselves that we can live through loss and letting go, and actually learn something from it.
But if we get to this point – thinking about the idea of emotional freedom and working on developing it in ourselves – we are close to the end of fully integrating this experience. Turning it into a gift rather than a disaster, and coming out of this long tunnel with our new selves in a new world.
What does respect have to do with it?
In the last article on self-love, the concept of respect was introduced. It is connected to self-love, because as we come to love, trust and believe we are entitled to care for ourselves, we develop a sense of separateness. Of boundaries. We come to realize that we have private interests, concerns and needs. They belong to us. They are our responsibility. They are also the sources of good in our lives. And we are entitled to explore them, define them for ourselves, pursue them, and plan our lives around them.
If anyone reading this finds the last paragraph triggering an emotional reaction, a feeling like you really need to get away from this article, go find something else to read here on LoveFraud, you have clear evidence of something important in yourself. Because that paragraph contradicts all the emotional training of abusive, enmeshed, victim-rescuer environments that demand loyalty, silence and compromises of identity and self-respect in order to be loved or simply survive.
The first time I ever encountered information like that, I read it over and over. The words made sense. But they didn’t compute. I had phrases popping up in my head like “easy for you to say” and “you don’t live with the demands and pressures that I do” and “I would be rejected by everyone I need to support me, if I thought like that.”
If you are having a reaction like that, I understand and respect the reality behind it. This push-back is coming from a normal strategy for survival that works. If we are willing to give up pieces of ourselves – our independence, our individuality, our ethics, our expressiveness – we can get paid for it. One of the real challenges that every person faces in life is to walk a fine line of balancing what we can do, need to do and are willing to do to fulfill our survival needs and our discretionary (but important) wants.
Where this becomes dysfunctional and self-destructive is when our sense of what we can give away – and still survive as whole people – is broken. When we have been “trained” in some excruciating and threatening situation to deny important aspects of our identity or fundamental human needs in order to get through it. When that situation is finally over, we are often left with warped ideas of relationships. But more important, our relationships with ourselves are damaged . Because it felt like a choice, even we perceived it as life or death. Some part of us holds us responsible and simply does not trust us anymore. We may live around it. We may develop all kind of strengths to compensate. But it feels as though some wires have been pulled inside of us. As though the lights have gone out in certain rooms of our mind.
This is why, for so many people, it is necessary to find a good therapist, experienced in trauma or childhood abuse, to help us untangle these situations. The “cure” is to go back and reject the deal we made. Not reject ourselves, but to reject the unfairness and inhumanity of the circumstances that forced us to do this damage to ourselves. Do it in memory, but also in our emotional systems. To identify the causes as abusive and wrong and not respectful of our normal human needs to maintain our own integrity. And to say to ourselves, and possibly the people involved, I no longer agree to this deal. I am taking myself back.
Integrity, like respect, is one of those words that many of us barely understand. We talk about integrity in terms of ethical issues, and that’s part of it. But integrity is much more than that. The world means wholeness, like “integer” means a whole number, rather than a fraction of a number. For our purposes here, we can imagine it as having all the internal “electrical” parts that we are supposed to have – all the natural emotions, open connections among the various parts of our brain, a balanced and high-functioning nervous system, vivid sensory awareness – adding up to keen animal survival instincts and the full range of sentient consciousness we have as human beings.
If something disrupts or corrupts our integrity in any way, we feel it deeply. We live with the pain of knowing something inside of us is not right. For many of us, that pain is the way we know ourselves best. But as we start to resolve these issues, to go back and reject those deals and repair ourselves, we become more conscious of something we have mutely longed for – the simple but powerful feeling of wholeness. Our integrity.
Even if we get there by incremental resolutions of the sources of pain – which is how most of us do get there – every step forward delivers a breathtaking new awareness of who we really are. It’s not that we are special exactly, although we are. Or good, although we are. But that we are. The word “I” becomes different. It’s no longer associated with any sort of battle for recognition or acceptance or love. It is awareness of some central identity that is the backbone or hub or inner seed of everything about us.
And when we grasp this, this permanent center in us, it is easier to understand the concept of respect. Because as we look around us, we realize that every living thing is also organized around something like this. We could talk about this from all sorts of angles – genes, souls, whatever – but when we find it in ourselves, we recognize it in other lives. In this we are alike, but also separate. We can relate, and we also may find that we have a great deal in common. But our identity, our integrity is our own. As theirs are theirs. Knowing this is the cornerstone of respect. The knowledge that we have boundaries, that something inside of us belongs to only us.
Having grown-up relationships with ourselves
It’s logical that we can’t have adult relationships with anyone else, if we don’t have adult relationships with ourselves. That doesn’t mean that we lose touch with our inner child. Or that we don’t experience the less “practical” states of emotion or awareness that enrich our lives.
What it does mean that is that we take our own needs seriously. That we recognize our needs as needs. Necessary. Not optional.
A whole, healthy human identity has different layers of needs. Some relate to physical survival. Others are about emotional health, intellectual development, social connection, and more. The study of human needs has interested many brilliant people. But for me, the most helpful of them has been Marshall Rosenberg, creator of non-violent communication (NVC) and the man who introduced me to the concept of emotional freedom.
NVC is based on the premise that all people have needs, and ultimately the most effective type of communication is about sharing information about our needs. Rather than going more deeply into that concept, I recommend two brief videos on You Tube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dpk5Z7GIFs and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbgxFgAN7_w&NR=1. If you find this article challenging, I guarantee these videos will help you make more sense of it.
Rosenberg points out that a lot of our language is basically about power and control. That is, keeping power and control in the hands of people who have it already. There is a lot of judgment in our language, ways to make people – including ourselves – wrong. And this language serves to separate us from our needs, or minimize the idea that everyone has normal human needs. As a result, compassion becomes subjugated to “rules.” Even though we are aware of our own suffering or the difficulties faced by other people, our responses are not compassionate or questioning of their (or our) circumstances. Instead, we are trained to assume there is something wrong with them, they are bad in some way, or they have some contagious problem we should avoid.
A few examples of this are racism, elitism and ageism – ways that we “name” other people that makes it easy to blames them or judge them, without having to consider their realities and how lack of resources may be contributing to their “lower than” status or behavior. Another example of this is the Magna Carta, the foundation of English law (and U.S law by extension), which is not about human rights at all, but only a concession by the Norman king of England to honor the property rights of Norman nobles who had come from France to claim and rule English land and the “serfs” attached to it. One of the difficulties we face as victims of sociopaths is that common law incorporates very little recognition of human needs, beyond our property rights to our own bodies, and even that is limited in many ways. The rights of “life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness” mentioned in the Declaration of Independence and free speech and religious choice in the U.S. Constitution were huge advances that shook the world of absolute monarchies.
To get back to needs, here is a partial list of needs from NVC website (www.cnvc.org), which has been developed over the years by people working with this type of communication:
Connection – acceptance, affection, appreciation, consideration, mutuality, support, to understand and be understood, trust
Physical well-being – air, food, movement/exercise, rest/sleep, sexual expression, safety, shelter
Honesty – authenticity, integrity
Play – joy, humor
Peace – harmony, order
Meaning – clarity, competence, contribution, effectiveness, growth, hope, mourning, purpose, self-expression, to matter
Autonomy – choice, independence
The first time I saw this list, I was mind-blown. It never occurred to me that I was entitled to even want most of these things. At the time, I was still struggling with whether I was allowed to feel angry, because the sociopath made me feel bad. The idea that I could unapologetically pursue any of these things in my life was staggering. All of a sudden all those internalized voices with comments like “You’re getting too big for your britches” and “No one likes a crybaby” and “You have to suffer to go to heaven” and (the monster of them all) “You owe us” became more clearly what they were. Coercive “rules” to convince me to forget about my needs.
But the needs didn’t go away, because I agreed to give them up in order to stay in that family. Unmet needs continue to generate demands and feelings. All of us are familiar with the how it feels to be treated with disrespect. You can find another list of it feels when our need are met or unmet here at the NVC website. If you want good reason to start thinking about getting your needs met, you’ll find it here. In a nutshell, would you rather feel happy, confident and fulfilled, or angry, helpless and despairing? Not a hard choice.
Empathy and self-interest
Structuring our lives to meet our own needs means several things. First it makes us responsible for our own feelings, because we realize that they are generated by our needs. If our needs are not being met, it is our responsibility to take care of ourselves. This is part of survival and also integrity. It is the essence of compassion for ourselves. Thinking about our needs also helps us interpret our experiences in ways that don’t make us wrong, but simply people who trying to get their needs met, often in situations that are not particularly supportive and that force us to look elsewhere in creative ways to keep ourselves healthy and whole.
It also makes us less inclined to take responsibility for other people’s feelings. We may empathize with them. We may see that our mothers are dissatisfied with how their lives turned out or our fathers are suffering because they feel like failures. We can see they are expressing negative emotions at us, because they have unmet needs. Or trying to manipulate us, because they are trying to get their needs met. But we also see that this is their stuff. The language they use of disappointment, anger, regrets and demands is about them – their inner landscape, how they view themselves and the world – and not about us. Even when they are trying to recruit us to their reality by making it about us.
One of the ways we can define sociopathic interactions or N/S/P relationships is that someone wants us to take responsibility for fulfilling his or her needs, in ways that cause us to abandon our needs. All the love-bombing, gaslighting, guilt-tripping and various types of abuse are just strategies to obtain this result.
A reasonable question would be: if we become emotionally independent, does that mean we become just like sociopaths? If we don’t feel responsible for other people’s feelings, does that make us unfeeling monsters?
I think you already know the answer to that. Not feeling responsible is not the same as not caring. (Just as caring doesn’t mean that we are responsible.) If we choose, we can offer support in ways that don’t compromise our integrity or well-being. We may feel sorry for our sociopath’s hard luck story and sympathize, but not agree to help him murder his ex-wife. In less extreme situations, we may give our friend or family member the gift of sympathetic attention. The key is to decide what we can afford to do without compromising our primary responsibility to take care of ourselves.
For practice in emotional independence, here are possible responses to use with people who are pressuring us, complaining about our behavior, judging or naming us (“you’re always so selfish”) or using any confusing or indirect means to get their needs met through us.
“I empathize with you, but I’m not certain what you’re telling me you want from me”
“What do you need to make you feel better?”
“Is there something you want from this relationship that you’re not getting?”
You are looking for more concrete requests, so you can decide whether you can meet their needs without damage to yourself. Often, with non-sociopathic people, these discussions are very fruitful. Both sides come to understand each other better, and often find simple things they can do for each other that un-trigger the feelings of unmet needs. (“I don’t feel like you really respect me” often turns out to be nothing more serious than a request to share the dog-walking responsibilities.)
However when we’re talking to people who are cannot be honest about their feelings, needs or wants, or actually have a control-related reason for hiding these things from us, our questions may be treated like an invasion of privacy or cause an attack of criticism, more emotional acting out, or obvious dissembling.
If we choose, we can do some empathetic probing (“I hear that you’re angry, but I’m not sure what you’re asking for.”) or suggestions about what’s going on with them (“Is this about you feeling lonely?”). But if they still refuse to say anything that sounds like they are talking about their own needs (rather than talking about us) or making specific requests, so that we can make choices about what we want to do for them, we also have the choice to stop participating in their game.
We can choose that because we meeting our own need to participate in things that are meaningful, respectful and effective. (Or whatever needs are “alive” in us at that moment.)
This is just a brief introduction to emotional independence. It’s not all about self-defense. A lot of it is about being honest with ourselves about our needs, and specific with other people about what we are requesting from them. They are free to turn us down, just as we are free to do the same. But clarity is a wonderful thing.
Imagine how much different our lives would be today if we had said to our ex-S, “You’re a charming person, and I’ve enjoyed our time together. But before we go further, you should know a few things about me. I need fidelity in my sexual relationships, respect for my decisions about myself, appreciation for what I do for you and reciprocity in all financial arrangements. And I need to be able to trust you to be honest. Anything less does not meet my needs.”
Can you imagine saying this? If so, hooray for you. If not, practice in the mirror, with a warm smile on your face as you assume the other person will say, “Wow, excellent list. I’m very comfortable with all of that, and feel the same way myself. Except that I also need fun in my life. Are you down with that?” When you can do this without worrying about what other people think of you or how this makes them feel, you’ll be a lot closer to being able to manage healthy friendships and intimate relationships. The next article is will be about love.
Namaste. The happy independent spirit in me salutes the happy independent spirit in you.
Kathy
written by Kathleen Hawk • Permalink •
Kathleen Hawk says:
confused2, good for you.
Evicting these squatters from our mental real estate is a good thing. We need that space for building our own lives.
Kathy
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slimone says:
Spirit40,
Welcome to LF. Matt and Kathy can really break it down, huh? Your extox. email acutally made me a little nauseous! Such a stupid email, but so riddled with manipulation. Amazing (in a stupid pet tricks kinda way).
I had the good fortune of no entanglements with the bad man. So I was able to change all #’s and got nothing he may have ever tried to send me. I threw everything away he had ever brought into my space. I paid the 6,700.00 loan off that I had co-signed. I paid off the car I gave him (which he promptly ‘totalled’). Even destroyed some ‘lovely’ things given to me. For me this was very freeing and helped me bring up some anger and righteousness. And made me feel a bit safer.
I am not one to give much advice, and I know you said you didn’t want to fork out any cash…..but if you could find the money to get his things AWAY from you, I would so recommend it. Every last scrap. From where I am sitting (2-years out), I can tell you that doing this early on could contribute a lot to your peace of mind: limiting stress, anticipation, and chaos. On another level it is about you protecting yourself from his further intrusion.
Good for you for getting his pathetic butt out of your house….
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Betty says:
confused2,
Reading your post took me straight back to my childhood, and the many times my recovering alcoholic Mom was trying to find strength to leave my alcoholic Dad.
She would work so hard to build up her courage, but bless her heart, she was so beaten down. She’d gone from growing up in an alcoholic home herself, becoming a drinker and quitting while married to my father, who considered her stopping drinking a hostile act towards him. She wasn’t able to leave him. They stayed married for 37 years until her death. He was dating and remarried within a couple of years.
When I was 8 years old, I finally asked her, why? Why were we spending our lives in hell, when we could make the break? She got very quiet, and she said, “I don’t trust myself. I can’t do it.” She had no friends, and Dad had a lot of dupes. She had few financial resources, and there wasn’t Al-Anon for family support and learning about alcoholic family dynamics, and certainly no Love Fraud, with its wealth of wisdom and support.
Reading your posts, I literally stood up and cheered! What you’re doing for you and your child is amazing, and has made me cry with joy. I know, because I also got out of an abusive marriage, that you have to take things one moment at a time — but you have already taken so many positive steps that you are well on your way.
Use this source, and there are many more as well, like Al-Anon. The articles, posts, and books on this site help me tremendously — my Dad wasn’t a sociopath when he was sober, but when he drank he decidedly was one — so a tremendous amount of what is said here hits it dead on.
I wish you all the best, and I’m so happy for you that you’ve found your voice and your strength. Good luck with your exams and your new life!
Betty
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Betty says:
Spirit40
Please excuse my error; I meant to address my post to you.
I’d just been jumped on by the cat and spilled coffee everywhere — another great computer moment!
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Spirit40 says:
Slimone, Betty and everyone! Thank you all for your support…. Thank you ! Thank you!
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Spirit40 says:
Betty your email helped me think of:
Reminded me of that Tracy Chapman song… I think its called fast car…. Mama wanted more from life than he could give her……. I feel guilty unlike he does about what my son had to go through has to go through now… aftermath…BS
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Done says:
Spirit40,
I hope that you are able to stay strong and rid your life of this slimeball for good. I don’t think mine ever came right out and said I was too fat or ugly to find anyone else, but he’d say subtle (and not so subtle) mean things to make sure I had no self confidence left. If I said I need to lose 5 pounds, he’d say ‘try 35.” Point is they are all the same.
I love Matt’s post to you (the response to the letter). It is so true, and exactly what I was thinking. Sure he’ll get a job, until you let him move back in. YUK!
On a side note, I’m happy to report that after wasting 10 years –that I want back– that I didn’t end up calling last night. Thank you LoveFraud for saving me from myself and from a possible 10 more years of manipulation, resentment and regrets.
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Spirit40 says:
The latest email hard to be strong …..
i am so glad we had that talk this morning, and so glad i took the
time to write that email to you. i can tell by your msg that i made
alot of headway. you could have given me the f—king check instead of
leaveing me broke then telling me to “rent a storage place” are you
ffpr real?? how the fuck would i do that? why dont you give me a
couple hundred freom the sale of my jeep so that i might have a chanc
to do the things you ask. no one in the f—ing world seems to care
abougt my shit but me. i have ashit in there that i have had almost
before you, you throw that shit out and you better already be on the
road with your names changed cause i’ll be pissed beond belief.WHAT
THE F–K IS WRONG WITH YOU THAT YOU CANT GIVE ME ONE MORE CHANCE, YOUR
TELLING MEI CANT SEEE MY F–ING SON…. THAT WILL NEVER BE FORGOTTEN
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Rosa says:
Done:
Proud of you!
I know that urge to call is hard to resist.
Over time, it will get easier for you, though.
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OxDrover says:
Dear Spirit,
Oh, boy! His e mail made me feel soooooo “sorry” for how “mean” you are being to him! NOT!!!!!!!!!!
Why don’t you go down and get a nice fat bank loan and lend it to him and HOLD YOUR BREATH TIL HE PAYS YOU BACK! ROTFLMAO
Put his crap out on the curb! NO CONTACT!!! NO CONTACT!!! NO CONTACT!!!! ((((HUGS)))) STAY STRONG!!! Remember, there is an old biddy in Arkansas praying for your strength! Oxy
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Spirit40 says:
LOL what would I do without you old biddy!!!!!! OMG Thank you! loads of hugs from this almost 40 overweight 135 is that so bad … italian single mother… who no one wants… oh just him and just for the enabling ….. I am actually scared not sure if the threats are real or not??? I am always intimidated so that leaves me in this limbo what to do …
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OxDrover says:
Dear Spirit,
First off, keep up your spirits and realize that you are NOT THE PROBLEM, HE IS!!!!!
Secondly, you take care of #1–yourself #2–your baby.
Why do I put YOU first and your baby second? Because if you don’t take care of YOURSELF, you will have nothing for your baby! So it is important for your baby that you take care of YOU.
The chit that the Ps tell us–we are ugly, stupid, it is all our fault and all of that crap—is just that, crap, to make themselves appear larger and better—WHICH THEY ARE NOT.
I’m not sure of all the details—if you were/are married to him, or what—but, the main thing is to have as LITTLE CONTACT WITH HIM as the LAW ALLOWS—ditto for your child!
That means: NO, e mails, texts, letters, phone calls, messages, etc. AND do not listen to or talk to others ABOUT him. If someone comes to you and tries to talk to you for or about him, tell them in FIRM ways that “I do not want to discuss “john”" if that does not stop them, turn and walk away or hang up, or slam the door in their face.
Change your phone numbers, block his e mails, texts, change the locks on the doors.
Keep records of all iincoming e mails, texts, etc ESPECIALLY THREATS—print them out and mail them to someone who lives out of town or a CLOSE FRIEND who hates him. your mother, or anyone you can trust completely. Keep in mind that he may snooker and convince others he “really loves you” so BE CAREFUL WHO YOU TRUST. My own “egg donor” (mother) has betrayed me and I cut her out of my life. NO CONTACT.
he may try to smear your name. IGNORE it–repeat “I do not care to discuss John or what he says” and stick to it.
DO NOT GIVE INFORMATION about your plans or anything else to ANYONE you cannot absolutely trust or they might relay it to him.
If you need comfort, support etc COME HERE—you can trust us. Do not tell anyone else about Love Fraud unless they are going through the same thing with a companion, and even then be careful. You don’t want him to find you here.
Read READ READ READ and READ some MORE here!
If the LAW or a COURT ORDER makes you let him see your baby, then follow it to the letter, no slack for him. Unless the law or court makes you, don’t let him see your child.
GIVE UP NOW on ever getting any child support that you don’t have to extract like impacted wisdom teeth—every lousy blasted dollar. He does NOT care about your child, or you except as POSSESSIONS for his benefit, and he enjoys making you miserable and knows he can use your child to that end, so don’t EVER FEEL SORRY FOR HIS SORRY ARSE!
Keep in mind you cannot CANNOT REASON WITH HIM…if his lips are moving he is lying.
If you are able at all, move to Timbucktu to get away from him and leave no forwarding address….if that is not possible, consider moving in with relatives or close friend to help you, if that isn’t possible, get a friend to come stay with your for a while. Contact a domestic abuse shelter for counseling and support. If he keeps harassing you, file for an order of protection. It won’t stop him, but at least it will let him know you are serious.
No matter what he ever says, do not ever consider going back to him.
I am so glad you are here, you do sound like you have great strength, and I can imagine that like many of us there wil lbe times when you think you don’t have the strength to swat a fly but you have more strength than you know, so muster that strength to get your prescious baby away from this monster if at all possible. If you don’t respond (NC) he will yup the ante for a whhile trying to get you hooked back, but eventually he will giv eup and find another victim. while I feel for her, and I am sure you will feel lbad for her, but SHE is your release ticket, and after her there will be another one, and another. But don’t worry, he will only be sweet to them for a little while then he will start treating them like chit too! They cannot love anyone else….and really, not even themselves.
And whatever your faith! Put it into action!!! PRay! (((hugs))) Oxy
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Kathleen Hawk says:
Hooray, Oxy. That post should be printed somewhere in a welcoming packet for newcomers to LoveFraud.
Spirit, you couldn’t get better advice.
And just to emphasize one point. Cut off every means that he can get information about you. You can assume he will probably use it against you at some point.
That means you do not look for understanding or support except from your close circle. Gossip can backfire. So can appearing out of control. So can you attempting to convince anyone else about what a bad guy he is. Stick your friends, your lawyer, and the police (if you have specific complaints that you want them to pursue or if, as I mentioned earler, you simply want to alert them that you expect a possible problem with him).
Make your private plans, and take your life back. We’ll support you and encourage you. If you want to rant, or you need understanding or concrete advice, come here. Or to those people you know you can trust. (The ones who already hate him and what he’s done to you.)
As Oxy said, you’re a strong woman. Don’t underestimate him, but don’t underestimate yourself either. You can handle this.
Kathy
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Spirit40 says:
An email from his sister…. in my response to his email to me
I don’t know why you think us as his family don’t understand that A— has
some major issues. We have all backed away from him years ago and know that A—- has to help himself and we have on many occasions told you you should do the same. I don’t know what you want me to do at this point. You have certainly contibuted to this whole situation by continuing to have him in your life, so please don’t look to blame us now. I love and will always love A—-as he is my brother but he needs to get help. It breaks my heart every day to think of what little A—- has made out of his life. All I do know is that he loves D—- very much and I hope you all are able to find some common ground that keeps D—-s best interest in mind.
I’m sorry this is difficult for you. I do wish you all the best but there is
little I can do to help. Take care. J
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Kathleen Hawk says:
Spirit,
It’s a reasonable response, though probably not as much support as you’d like. I got this kind of thing from my ex’s friends when I sought help from them. They cared about him, but they did it from behind careful boundaries. Because they’d all been burned at one time or another.
As far as her comments about common ground go, don’t worry about that right now. You can deal with that later, when you’re cooled down. And after you get your presentations done.
You’re life is very full right now. Good luck with all of it.
Kathy
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Spirit40 says:
Kathleen,
Thank you! I never really looked at it that way , my life is full now and I am not going to try and change anyones mind but my own! I never did get much support , its I knew the risks involved… I will stick with the support I get from people that accept it and have lived it. Thank you. How would she know if he loves his child? Words are easy to say ! I appreciate your encouragement.
Spirit40
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Kathleen Hawk says:
You’re welcome, Spirit. I think about you a lot. My work is very project-based, with big rushes of activity and deadlines. And I know what it’s like to have to wrench my mind away from what’s going on emotionally and focus on what I have to do.
It’s hard. But in my case, the mortgage of this house keeps talking to me. I don’t want to lose it, and so I put on my smart, rational head and get the work done.
I hoping you can do the same. And not allow more drama with this jerk to cost you something important to your life. It’s an important time for you. If you’re like me, just the stress of the work can add to the drama, which makes me even more inclined to get distracted with personal stuff.
But you know that most of the details of getting rid of him can be done in a couple of weeks, as well as now. When the presentations are done, and you’ve got your degree.
Right now, the only thing you really have to do regarding him drop the iron curtain. No communication in or out, no additional drama. If you absolutely need to do something like deal with him or one of his friends getting his stuff from the house, just make an appointment and put it out in the yard before they get there.
Be a fortress, Spirit. You can do this.
Kathy
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Advocate55 says:
The freedom process started the day at finally divorced the sociopath..for that time on..it’s been a healing journey, now 11 years later. More recently the healings seem to be coming faster because I have now enter a new level of understanding what happened to me and that I could have the support and love of others such as finding this site, knowing that I am not alone. Freedom is so important to me now, knowing who I really am and that I am OK..Thank God, I am free at last!
Being free from all the abuse and drama that happens..even when I have to go back to court because he continues to do things to me and our children..freedom to know that I can control myself and the situation because today I am empowered and can overcome situations with this ex, one day at a time. Today, I am taking better care of Me! Love Me!
Thanks for this beautiful acticle on Freedom!
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Spirit40 says:
Kathy ! Im soooo confused.. Well I just had a session with someone who obviously knows nothing about sociopaths so do I switch counselors or what?? Meet him in a public place he tells me. Why should I ? because we have a child together I owe him something while he gives us grief and manipulates my child , no way …… I have a headache now ….
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Donna Andersen says:
Spirit 40,
I don’t know who you met with, but that is terrible advice. The best thing to do with a sociopath is to cut him out of your life. No Contact is the answer. These people will never “play nice.”
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OxDrover says:
Dear Spirit40,
DONNA IS SO RIGHT!!! Your “counselor” does NOT GET IT—s/he is presuming that you are dealing with a “normal jerk” and THAT IS NOT THE CASE.
First off, YOU DO NOT OWE HIM DIDDLY-SQUAT!!! He owes your son SUPPORT and reasonable parenting, and he is NOT GOING TO PROVIDE EITHER…so your best bet is to keep your child as far away from him as the LAW WILL ALLOW!
Your sister-in-law’s reply was about as good as you can expect, but I would NOT COMMUNICATE WITH ANYONE ELSE EVER who will relay any information to him. PUT NOTHING IN WRITING EITHER THAT HE CAN GE THIS HANDS ON, it will BITE YOU LATER. Trust me on that one!!!! BEEN BITTEN by that!
CHANGE THERAPISTS!
If the next one doesn’t get it, change AGAIN AND AGAIN until you get the one who does! In fact, i would “interview” them on the phone first about psychopaths before I even made an appointment. Most of them think a psychopath is a serial killer, and only a FEW of them are, but those make the media, the low-level ones (but just as dangerous in other ways) like yours don’t make the head lines.
Kathy’s iron curtain of information is GREAT ADVICE!
“
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OxDrover says:
Dear Adviocate,
WELCOME! Glad you found your way here and glad that you are doing well in your healing! it is a LONG journey for most of us, but in the end it is worth it! again, welcome!!!
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Escapee says:
Spirit 40
Sounds like the sister has him nailed down. She’s detached – she’s found a coping mechanism and although, in some ways, her words sound cold, she’s doing what we all need to learn to do – put it in the box. While you’re caught up in the dramas of counsellors etc (sorry English Spelling – hard habit to break – it’s such a give-away!), you’re not getting on with the ‘breaking free’.
Think of you, your child AND in THAT order. If you’re not taking care of YOU, you can’t take care of anyone else.
All love to you and keep posting for strength.
E
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Kathleen Hawk says:
Oxy, can you help on this one?
Spirit. was that an attorney or a therapist? And what was the purpose of the meeting?
The reason to meet someone in a public place is that it’s safer. I’m assuming you told the counselor that you would eventually have to talk with him. Or that you were concerned about him coming to your house. And that’s why you got that advice.
These conversations may be a little confusing at first, until you get very good at saying what you want. If what you want is to have no further personal contact with him, you need to say so. If you’re asking for advice on how to deal with him in some other way, you need to be really clear about the scenario you are imagining. Would it be to discuss business? Would it be to hand over his possessions?
If the person didn’t give you an answer that matches your question, then you need to go back and do the question again with more details. Like “No, I don’t want to see him at all, because he’s already tried to kill me twice, and I don’t trust him. What I’m asking you is what are might rights as far as avoiding him altogether?”
They don’t need to understand sociopaths if they understand domestic abuse. If they don’t understand that, then you need to find someone else.
I hope that helps. And I hope Oxy can give you something more concrete.
Kathy
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Kathleen Hawk says:
Sorry, I got sidetracked before I posted that. I wrote it long ago after Spirit first asked the question. And now just accidently just posted it, long after you guys answered the question.
Have I totally confused you?
Spirit, just listen to Oxy and Donna. They give the best advice in these matters.
Kathy
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Spirit40 says:
Thanks guys & gals ! it was a therapist, I know he dosent get it. He’s about keeping families together?? not labeling?? He meant meeting in a public place for my child’s sake to see his father….and as far as the sister’s email they have always been cold like somehow this is my fault and I knew the risks involved…they think he LOVES his CHILD, he told me he got me pregnant to keep me in his life…. he knew he could sucker me in whenever he wanted if he had a tie to me….sick F–k and I look like the nut f–n job…. UGGGHHHHHH
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Spirit40 says:
Hello All and by the way… when he got me pregnant in 96, it was after he already hooked his next victim…then came back briefly after I came home from work one day I found all HIS stuff and HIS puppy gone. NO note no words just gone , as I said then he came back to seal our fate… getting me pregnant and its been this on and off ever since and he married someother victim also in between she figured something out quicker I guess hope I helped her with that…. anyway… I have a feeling he bats for his team too… Ugggggghhh sometimes I really want to hate him… he was trying to convince me for the longest time we need protection, we need a gun…. Thank god I didnt listen to him… sick sick little boy…
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Spirit40 says:
Why did I not follow my gut instincts to do this when I had my child 12 years ago??? Why am I just now finding out the real truth? I see it so clearly lived it and no body will hear the truth.
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Spirit40 says:
When I asked how come you never tell me I’m beautiful or anything like that?
He said well your with ME… we all know what this means. If Im with HIM then I must be decent huh…
Well I did something for me today cut my hair it was sooo hot and I feel good, free from hair and like I had a choice how I wanted it!!! Yippie!!!!
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OxDrover says:
Dear spirit,
Every emotion you expressed, and the “why didn’t I sees” are all NORMAL QUESTIONS, ,normal emotions, etc.
I think 99.9% of every question you can ask is already answered here on LF–I don’t mean for you to not ask questions, I just mean that the MORE YOU LEARN, THE MORE CLEAR THINGS WILL BE—-READ READ READ!!!!! I don’t think there is an emotion or a question you could have that hasn’t already been experienced/talked about/answered here on the wonderful articles at LF.
Order the books recommended here too, and read them…over and over….because sometimes there will be a “truth” you are not yet ready to hear. Also, since you ahve a child with this monster, go to Dr. Leedom’s co-parenting articles and her blog/website, gather information, gather knowledge and gather STRENGTH! It won’t happen over night, but the time will come when you are emotionally and physically FREE OF THIS CREEP and you truly just do not give a big rat’s behind about whether he lives or dies. You will be your OWN woman and realize that you do not NEED someone to validate taht you are wonderful, cause you will know it! (((hugs)))) There are some awesome people here who have experienced some terrible trials with these monsters and come out BETTER THAN BEFORE, stronger than before! Keep your chin up and keep the faith!
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FRANCIS says:
Hi,
I’m new to this site I need some help I’m pretty sure a woman that is in my life is a sociopath. Its a long story. I’ve known this woman for 5 years in total now. I started going out with her two years ago. I bought my first house three years ago at the age of 25. It was a good time in my life. I’ve alwys been a firm believer in that if you work hard for what you want in life you will achieve it. So many of my friends and family were happy for me because they knew this was one of the things I had always wanted to achieve in life. Anyway in 2007 we started going out together what happened was she was having some difficulty in here life and lost her home. She asked if she could stay for a while and I agreed as I have a four bedroom house. Anyway at first things were ok no major problems but eventually I noticed that she began to throw little tantrums which I tended to just ignore but then her behaviour began to get more extreme. I helped her out a little in trying to sort her life out but she just seemed to keep wanting more and more from me. She wanted me to get her a contract phone I disagreed as she wasn’t working and she couldn’t afford the bill but that didn’t deter her she kept going on and on promising that she would pay the bill. I let her have the phone against my own better judgement. Anyway by now she was treating me like absolute crap constantly shouting at me that I’m useless and whenever I disagreed with her on something it was because I’m a bad person and I don’t want to seeher get anywhere in life. Also whenever she wanted something clothes, money or whatever her shallow personality desired she would pull out all the stops to try and charm me. Eventually I ended up kicking her out of my house after she woke up me one morning after I’d been on a 12 hour shift at work just to cream and shout at me I was absolutely furious and gave her a pice of my mind . I was happy because I no longer felt like I was under anyone’s control. Needless to say not once did she pay the phone bill she had promised to pay. Anyway over the next few months she’d phone me asking why I hadn’t been in touch and how was I was etc, etc just slowly trying to worm her way back into my life. She came back in 2008 and I told her I didn’t want her as she was a right bitch to me before and all I’d try to do was help her a little bit. She convinced me that she had changed as she now had a job and she hd been staying with friends and relatives all this time. SO our relationship rescued we spoke about a lot of things including marriage and kids. She told me how she couldn’t have kids naturally and she would have to go for ivf. Before long we were engaged but by now she was beginning to play up again always critizing me and always trying to manipulate me she even once tried to use me so she could get her mom hire out a rental car for her because I had refused to help and yes she tried to make me fell guilty for not helping her it was as if I was not entitled to an opinion of my own and I was not allowed to say no. Anyway we decided to go for ivf treatment she told me how she’d been through so much in life and she was trying her hardest to make a go of her life. Anyway at our first appointment at the fertility clinic I had to return for some test of my own. When I went back for my tests I found out that I maynot be able to have kids myself. Back at home she threw into a rage saying that it was all my fault and said its because I don’t look after myself and that I must have known this all along I couldn’t believe what I was hearing. Anyway I spoke with the consultant and he said that in ayears time I may not be able to have kids and recommended that I start freezing my sperm. So I began this process. Now during this time my fiancee managed to obtain a flat and she asked if I could help her move some stuff to her flat. I asked why she needed a flat when we were both living together and she said that because I had my own place and she also wanted things of her own as she didn’t always want to have to rely on me. Anyway on the day I hired a van and went to meet her when we met up an argument developed. I drove off and left her but she followed me in her car and swerved her car in front of me I slammed on the breaks and swerved out the way just before she hit me.
Then drove of and left her there. I drove the van to my moms and told her waht had just happened and my mom was shocked to hear what had she had done. Anyway I switched of my phone and visited a few more friends by the time I got home she had moved most of her stuff out to her place now. I told her I didn’t think a relationship netween me and her would work because of her anger as he was lways angry about something and had the impression that everybody owed her something beacuse she’s had such a bad life (which I seriuosly doubt after speaking to her parents they both told me that she is a spolit brat). Anyway earlier on while we were arguing she decided to throw her away the engagement ring but managed to find it again. A few days earlier she threw her engagement ring down on the floor while we were in the house because she was so upset that she had no weed when she had woken up that morning and launched into a verbal attack on me. ( I don’t condone drugs and she was mean’t to be giving up before her treatment started). Now we were meant to go for the ivf treatment in September however I suddenly noticed no money in my bank account when I checked to see what was going on I found out that I was spending money at an alarming rate mostly beacuse of my fiancee who was conatsantly breaking things in anger and causing loads of problems. I chose to persever with her sat her down and told her that we had to slow down on things if we were to go for a baby. In August I found out that I may not have a job in 6 months tome due to the credit crunch. I told her that we would have to put the ivf teratment back a month or two while I tied to figure out the best way forward she was not happy. She went berserk and started calling me all sort of names and told me that she would have a baby with her ex instead. For a whole week I got nothing but abusive texts I chose to ignore her phone calls it was simply too much. She started phoning me telling me how The doctor, her friends, her mom and her family couldn’t believe what I had done. I wasn’t certain so I asked ny family for some advice on this matter and they agreed with what I had done as I wasn’t certain what my situation would be. My cousin was with me the whole week that she sent me the abusive text messages and he ws shocked at her behaviour. I honestly believe her true intenetions were jsust to try to get to pay for her ivf. Anyway once again she threw her enegagement ring away. About a week later she turns up on my doorstep wanting to work things out and acted like absolutely nothing had happended and all the things she had said and done were absolutely nothing she didn’t fell guilty or anything. of course by now I just wasn’t interested I’d had enough of her and wanted her gone from my life. The next few months she was in and out of my life as we constantly broke up and then she would leave me alone but then come back when she wanted sonmething. She constantly tried to say that I have denied her the opportunity to be a mom. Which is a bit harsh as she had quit her job and was never going to contribute towards the treatment. By January 2009 she was back this time trying to convince me that I should marry her I said I still cared about her but neither of us were ready for marriage yet she kept chasing me. At the end of January we had an argument over her enagagement ring she wanted me to claim on my house insurance so could have it back. I of course refused maybe I am selfish but she disrespected me in a big way and if I did put a ring back on her hand guess what she would throw it away again ( she’s already done it three times). Anyway she came back in May telling me that she would be going away on holiday. She asked me for a favor which was to book a hotel for her and she would give me back the money. I booked the hotel for her and never received the money despite me telling her that I would need the money as it was for a bill that I neede to pay. She flew out on my birthday and didn’y even phone to say happy birthday or goodbye. She phoned a few days later to say that she had no money because her benefits hadn’t cleared in her account. I told her I couldn’t help her and asked how could she go on holiday without any spending money? Anyway a week into her holiday she phones me saying she has no money and wants to come home and asks me to book her a flight home. I sent her £100. She swore that I would get it back plus the money fromm the hotel i still haven’t received a penny because as soon as she came back she said that she was going to lose her flat beacuse she owed them money from before. Once again I stepped in to help. She’s now on at me to get her rings back. She keeps insisting that I treat her bad and that I am quiet and don’t speak much. I agreed that I am quiet because of her anger and that maybe now I have got a bit of an attitude towards her bacause form my eyes she always wants things and is not prepared to work anything and I’m always feeling the full brunt of her anger anyway when I do feel her anger I ignore her for days on end which makes her even angrier then ther real her comes out and I see her true personailty. Its now July , In June she tried to pressurise me into marrying her again I didn’t agree but told her I’ve made so many efforts to try and make things work that if she really wants to marry me then she would have to find a job and contribute in some way to the wedding. She agreed and in the first week of july she found herself a job but as ever her true intentions have become clear. She has a car and has taken out a loan against her car the loan car company are now trying to take her car back from her as she hasn’t paid them any money, now she needs her car for work so she asked me to swap my car with her car for a week I refused to do it. So she text me saying that she couldn’t marry me right now and wanted to put it back a bit then phoned me later I told her it was petty for her to break up with me because I wouldn’t swap my car with her. She chose to take that loan out against her car I never had a car for two years because she wrecked my car and she never once offered me a lift while she was driving. Anyway she kept trying to confuse my head and forcing me to stay on the phone but I refused to say anything because If I did she would just twist my words and use it against me and sh doesn’t understand thats why I’m quiet around her because of all the abuse I suffer I had sent a text earlier quoting 1 Corinthians 13:4. Anyway she got fed up of my silence and decided to hang up the phone. I was so happy but I knew she would be back. She phoned me back that night and her true intentions were revealed. She turned around and said you have ruined my life so you should pay for my IVF. I was furious at first then I said you know what forget my mortgage, forget all my bills, forget the debts you’ve ran up in my name when I get paid I will give you every last penny I ‘ve got. She said that she wanted for me to be a part of the childs life she’ll be using a donor not my own a s I am unsure if I can still have kids and never really got the chance to sort out my financial prroblems and freeze my own spem. She said that she would drop the baby of to me on a Saturday. I said no cause that is not what been family is about. She’s finally cracked me. I went out bought myself a bottle of whisky drank the whole bottle this woman is trying to destroy my life. When I got paid I gave it all to her and just left her there in disgust. Last Friday she was at Her friends and beat one of them up because she didn’t like the way she spoke to her. The woman then went downstairs and kicked her car causing damge to the car door. So she tried to run her over. The woman has reported her to the police for attempted murder. She has to got tthe police station tomorrow. Am I a horrible person for wanting the police to lock her up. This week I’ve been drinking heavily and I sent her a few text messages tellling her exactly what I think of her. Why I am sinking to her level? Or am I the sociopath? please help me need answers. She’s now fuming from all the texts I sent her I told her she’s a leech shge doesn’t know how to speak to people which is why she gets treated the way she does by people and she feels like she’s always entitled to something they were just a few of the thing I sent to her. I know she won’t last long in her job and as soon as she wants something I think she’ll be back. The good thing for me is that I am renting out my house some of my family are already aware of the situation between me and her. I know I shouldn’t have given her the money but it was the fear of what would happen if I didn’t to my house she ‘s taken things from my house before she took a brand new laptop from y house before. When I changed the locks she kicked off the door needless to say I don’t keep anything of significant worth in my house but now its been renetd out. I hjave a few options my mate has a room for me and my mother has said to come and saty with her for a few months so I’m not short of options. I’m not sure how things are going to turn out. What should I do ?
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geminigirl says:
Dear francis. think you already know the answer, you have to FINISH with this sick.anipulative Narc /Sociopath right away!
Like you I was suckered in to giving and giving to someone like this. You have to get her out of your life, permanently! you have been suckered long enough! You owe her nothing! Im surprised yu ahve got this far with her, but then, I know how devious, manipulative and heartless they are, they have no conscience, no empathy, are never sorry for what they have done. You have been a classic “enabler’, and allowed her to wipe her feet all over you.This has gone on long enough, WAY too long! You need her out of your life PRONTO!
Change the locks, change your phone no., change your email,
get legal advice,STOP ending her any more money! Stop giving in re the in vitro. Why would you want a child from an evil socio/psychopath? Imagine if it took after her? Write off any money you have given her, you will never see it again, but give her NO MORE! for your sanitys sake, you must go NC {no contact.}She is a cruel, vindictive, horrible person, you need her in your life like a hole in the head.Please be strong, and get her OUT of your life, for good. You deserve so much better than her. Her evil actions will catch up with her very soon.She feels NOTHING for you, she only uses you. These people have no deep emotions, and are incapable of remorse.
get out while you still have some sanity left. You owe her nothing.Remember, she will discard you like a used piece of toilet tissue when she is sick of you.FINISH IT NOW
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FRANCIS says:
geminigirl
Thanks for the response I figured as much but they really get into your head and then you get confused to the point where you think is it you or them.
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Done says:
Francis,
I think that you have suffered enough. What better opportunity to cut off contact than her being arrested for attempted murder? This site is big on NO CONTACT because it allows you to take the control away from the sociopath/narcissist. If you don’t speak/text/phone etc her, she will not be able to manipulate you into paying her bills and whatever else it is she is after. I’m so sorry for what you are going through, everyone here has gone through something similar. Just be glad that you didn’t have a kid with this woman, then she would NEVER be out of your life.
You sound like a very decent guy. Don’t let this monster ruin your life. I really relate to the question you asked, “Am I the sociopath?” It sure doesn’t sound like it. You are perfectly normal and just reacting to her insanity. They have this crazy ability to twist things around, blame and make us question whether or not we are the crazy ones.
Welcome, and sorry you have to be here!
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henry says:
Francis – You must read everything you can about personality disorders. Sociopaths/Physcopaths/Narcissist..I recomend a book called Meaning from Madness by Richard Skerritt.. read about the way they turn your reality into insanity….like you I kept taking my X back time after time….I thought I was the crazy one…..you need to run like your ass is on fire and go no contact with this person…you are not thinking right – just as she has planned – to make you crazy, because when you are confused and in that fog you are easier to manipulate…..no contact –ever again — I have been no contact one and half year now and still feel this big sense of loss – but it was the loss of my identity that I felt – you/we all want to be in love – but this is not love – you are under the spell of the most evil vampire alive – run – run – run and work hard, very hard on yourself, to understand why you are a target for these kind of parasites, that is what I had to do was work on me and I am OK – this is a life Lesson dont fail it – The Truth Will Set you Free but First it will Piss you off – read read read – knowledge equals power – hang in there and post when ever you need to – someone will be here to listen -
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FRANCIS says:
I don’t know what lead me to this site but I honestly believe its God looking out for me I saw a description of what a sociopath is yesterday and instantly I thought of her ever since I’ve been reading up on sociopaths. I intened to start educating myself on thes kind of people. They aren’t human
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FRANCIS says:
Done,
Thanks I don’t mind been here because now I am in no doubt as to what I am dealing with. I need to tie up the tenants for my house then I will be running as fast as I can.
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Rosa says:
Hi Francis:
First of all, welcome to LoveFraud. You have come to a great place.
Now, I would like to get right to the point.
Get this crazy bitch out of your life as soon as possible!!!
Thank God, you did not marry this psychopath (in my opinion).
Look, Francis. My brother is MARRIED to a psychopath. He and the psycho. wife have a beautiful daughter together. The child has been abused since birth by my psychopath sister-in-law, which is what brought me to this site in the first place. I am very concerned about what this child will turn out to be when she gets into her teenage years. I am always watching for a genetic component in her behavior. I don’t know if you were aware of this, but there is a genetic component to psychopathy.
And, of course, one child was not enough for my sister-in-law. She wanted more, and like your girlfriend, had to go through IVF.
My brother and the psycho went through 5 failed IVF attempts, and they would STILL be trying for a 2nd child if it was up to her. IVF costs approximately $10,000 per attempt in the U.S. Five failed attempts @ $10,000, you can do the math. And she wanted to keep going!!!
Anyway, the staggering sense of entitlement, the way she blows through YOUR money, the reckless behavior, the rages, it is all classic psychopath, as far as I am concerned.
Get rid of her ASAP! Cut your losses and get out!
Consider yourself lucky that the wedding/baby plan did not work out.
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FRANCIS says:
Its hard to take that people can be this twisted I’ve learned a very valuable lesson in life
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FRANCIS says:
Rosa,
I wasn’t aware that there was a genetic component to psychopathy. Do psycho/sociopaths know exactly what they are doing and deep down enjot it?
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henry says:
your question was to Rosa but I will tell you any and all efforts to understand a sociopath is futile. Sociopaths have what can be described as a brain function deficit. They lack all sense of value and concern for other people. Where normal people have a natural fear of causing harm to other people, a sociopath has no such fear or concern. It simply does not matter to a S what happens to other people, including family and intimate partners. In the general sense, as long as they can get away with it, sociopaths will do anything that serves their desires. Do they know what they are doing? I think so but it is about the power they have over someone – if they can twist us around like puppets by saying they love us – the power they feel is what gives them the rush – they dont / cant feel love – just power, and you can take that away from her by going no contact – you may never see it but that is your only weapon and your ultimate salvation….
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Rosa says:
Francis:
There is definitely a genetic component to psychopathy, which is why you DO NOT want to have a child with one.
You do not want a disordered child. And you do NOT want to deal with a psychopath mother when it comes to child custody issues, if you can help it.
All I know for sure is that psychopaths are very sadistic individuals. And, for some reason, they love to reproduce. They don’t want to be bothered with raising the children once they are born, and they are unable to provide a stable environment for a child because they are easily bored and cannot function in a normal, healthy environment. They are terrible parents because they are incapable of love and unable bond on an emotional level with their child, or anyone for that matter.
Did you feel like your girlfriend was bonded with you on an emotional level? Did she have your best interests at heart?
Did she put you first or herself first?
I do think psychopaths know exactly what they are doing, and they choose to do it anyway. My sister-in-law is smart enough to abuse my niece in private, and not in front of me or my family. She knows there will be consequences if anyone actually sees her abusing her own child.
That is why I see these disordered individuals as pure evil.
Books that I would recommend to you would be “Without Conscience” by Robert Hare and “The Sociopath Next Door” by Martha Stout.
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henry says:
Dear Kathleen Hawk – I read your above article when you first posted it. I read it several times and wanted to respond to you but have not. You have summed it up for me, my life, my dysfunctions that have led me to even more dysfunctional relationships. My childhood neglect and abuse. I understand so much about me now. In so many ways I have answers now. I have been reading Francis’s post and offering some insight to him. What I really want to tell him is the way out of his nitemare is to look inward and learn about himself and then he will understand some of the why’s. I by no means am letting the evil predators off the hook for what they do to us . SO many good people here at love fraud have helped me turn the page on my life. At first it was all about the injustice done to me by people I loved. It has evolved into looking at me and what I can do to live a more balanced life. I cant do anything to change the past or the cruel things done to me. But I have a lighter heart and a more optomistic future now. Thanks to you and so many angels that found me when I needed them the most, i know all your names my angels in cyber space…thank you….
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Jim in Indiana USA says:
FRANCIS….Welcome to Lovefraud. Glad you found it. Compared to your experiences, mine were easy, but still created “twisted” patterns in my own mind. That’s where, like henry, I have to do my work, too…for the life I want and deserve.
NO CONTACT is the only way to keep from repeating the same harmful situation or situations over and over. When your “gut feelings” tell you it’s bad for YOU, you can’t afford to hang around trying to figure them out, just GET AWAY from the person if you find yourself in this crazy state of mind…save yourself.
It’ll take time to find youself again, and may help keep you from ending up doing it again later.
Be good to yourself….NO CONTACT…and welcome.
Jim
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Kathleen Hawk says:
Henry, thank you for your comments. You’re one of my angels, too.
I think this article is, above all, about choice. Power over our own lives.
Francis, welcome to LoveFraud. You’re just beginning to deal with your situation, to recognize that this woman isn’t normal.
As everyone else has said, the first way to get normality back into your life is to get her out of it. Completely. Forever.
Part of it is that you just want her out of your life. The other part is that these people can turn aggressively vicious. So many of us find that we also have to go NC with anyone who is still talking them. It’s wiser to not give them any information at all about us.
I’m glad you’re hear. Please keep writing. It sounds like you’ve been through a lot, and this is a great place to find support.
Kathy
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Matt says:
Francis:
Welcome to LoveFraud. When I looked at your timeline, I was struck by how similar it was to the timeline with my S. I wrote about it in a December 2008 article “Criminal Defense Attorney falls for Sociopath.”
This woman is exhibitting every classing sign of her being a sociopath. The sense of entitlement, the volatility, the exploitation, the maniplation, the lying, the pity play, the poor responsibility…the list is endless.
Mine cost me a bundle. As much as it cost me, I am still soooo glad I didn’t marry him. They get the hook in good and deep. Then they begin the devalue and discard. But, they never discard as long as they still think there is an ounce of blood, money, compassion, whatever to bleed out of you.
NC (no contact) is the only way to go. That means no calls. No texts. NO emails. No smokesignals. No talking to their other dupes/emissaries. Nothing. Change all contact information. Change your routine. If you can sell you house and move, do it. This woman has colonized your brain. YOu have got to get her out of it.
I’d suggest you read Robert Hare’s “Without Conscience”, Martha Stout’s “The Sociopath Next Door”, and Patrick Carnes’ “The BEtrayal Bond”. As you begin to understand how these non-human vehicles of discord operate, you can begin to recover.
By the time I drove my S off last November, I was ready to kill myself. I’ve taken a couple of more big body blows since then — my health gave out from all the stress, losing my job and a seriously ill parent. However, life is much better nowthat the S is gone. I no longer wake up walking on eggshells wondering what S-created disaster is going to befall me today. I’ve met a nice guy who is good-looking, intelligent, kind, thoughtful, financially responsible, pays his share of a dinner check and doesn’t have to report in to his probation officer. If I had known people like him existed I would have gotten rid of the S way before I did.
Anyhow, you’re in the right place to recover from this nightmare. Be grateful you didn’t have a child/marry this creataure. YOu can recover from the financial carnage.
Again, welcome.
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decieved1 says:
Rosa
Children are a tool! The Psycopath breeds to gain Power! What is more Powerful than the maternal instinct? The Bond between mother and child? How many women feel they are obligated to stay in an abusive relationship Because of the children?
Sexuality is another! Once Hooked and Brainwashed by the P , the victim is made to feel fortunate to have Their attention! Devalued as an individual, Isolated from family and friends ! The P brainwashes the victim into thinking they are unworthy of Love.
Imagin If the energy that they use against us was redirected towards a Positive purpose ? How much better would they feel about themselves!
I know we talk about how they are selfish But I don’t think they really even like themselves!
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Rosa says:
Deceived1:
“Children are at tool!”
I know. Tilly told me the same thing once.
But, I am not a mother. So, I cannot get my head around the fact that women actually have children to use as pawns in their sick agendas to gain power/control over everyone.
I know it is done, though. I have one in my own family.
She uses that child just like a chess piece.
It’s a pathetic way to live.
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Spirit40 says:
My P, said I was using my child as a chess piece that is how he kept me coming back to him its a double edged sword……when it did not work out with his next victim/s he would call me to save and rescue him of course I did . He is the father of my child after all ….. Put yourselves in others shoes. they cant wont … we are not possessions, we are free human beings!!!
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Escapee says:
FRANCIS
RUN! RUN! RUN!
Do whatever it takes but get out! If I had got out at the stage you are at, I would still have my healh, I wouldn’t have over £100,000 worth of debt and I woud still have my confidence and integrity.
All the temper tantrums are to get her own way. This woman does not give a ‘jot’ about you. She doesn’t want a relationship, based on mutual trust and working together, she wants someone to bully and manipulate. How DARE she! Put your own needs first and REMEMBER – where were you at before you met her? Solvent, relaxed, happy, centred – by the sound of it – you may have already kissed goodbye to some of this but it’s now a damage limitation exercise – do it buddy. She’s a half-human and will always be one step ahead of you.
Good luck and keep posting here for strength.
E.
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