Comments on: The Narcissist’s Commandments http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/07/02/the-narcissist%e2%80%99s-commandments/ Wake up to the danger of sociopaths Wed, 08 Feb 2012 07:17:13 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Donna Andersen http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/07/02/the-narcissist%e2%80%99s-commandments/comment-page-8/#comment-42330 Donna Andersen Thu, 23 Jul 2009 22:49:04 +0000 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/07/02/the-narcissist%e2%80%99s-commandments/#comment-42330 Lovefraud bloggers, Again, please do not jump to conclusions about the motivations of other contributors. Overt abuse is not tolerated on this site. If the tone of someone's comments bothers you, please simply ignore them. Lovefraud bloggers,

Again, please do not jump to conclusions about the motivations of other contributors. Overt abuse is not tolerated on this site. If the tone of someone’s comments bothers you, please simply ignore them.

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]]> By: MariaLisa http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/07/02/the-narcissist%e2%80%99s-commandments/comment-page-8/#comment-42303 MariaLisa Thu, 23 Jul 2009 21:02:56 +0000 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/07/02/the-narcissist%e2%80%99s-commandments/#comment-42303 Escapee: Good analogy! Very true. Thats real character building. Escapee:
Good analogy! Very true. Thats real character building.

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]]> By: Escapee http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/07/02/the-narcissist%e2%80%99s-commandments/comment-page-8/#comment-42301 Escapee Thu, 23 Jul 2009 20:59:57 +0000 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/07/02/the-narcissist%e2%80%99s-commandments/#comment-42301 Re "Everybody has a master" - Here's a story that defined this for me:- (you may have heard it before). The 'master' is standing over you, holding a big stick, he says "if you drink that cup of coffee on the table, I will beat you with this stick. If you don't drink that cup of coffee, I will beat you with this stick". What do you do? a) Drink the coffee - may as well get something out of it, as you'll be beaten anyway b) Don't drink the coffee and take the beating Answer: Neither. Take away the stick. It's only HIM saying he's the master - it doesn't make it true. This is what we do when we go NC or leave - we take away the stick (the power). We are masters/mistresses of our own destiny as far as I can see. You have to take back your own power It took me a long time to get to this and this little story helped me see that, for such a long time, I would have plumped for a or b - it just didn't occur to me that there was another option that I was strong enough to choose. Once I went NC, there have been many other issues to deal with in the healing process but at least I have my 'power' back. We are masters/mistresses of our own destiny as far as I can see. Free will and all that ................. Re “Everybody has a master” –

Here’s a story that defined this for me:- (you may have heard it before).

The ‘master’ is standing over you, holding a big stick, he says “if you drink that cup of coffee on the table, I will beat you with this stick. If you don’t drink that cup of coffee, I will beat you with this stick”.

What do you do?

a) Drink the coffee – may as well get something out of it, as you’ll be beaten anyway

b) Don’t drink the coffee and take the beating

Answer: Neither. Take away the stick. It’s only HIM saying he’s the master – it doesn’t make it true.

This is what we do when we go NC or leave – we take away the stick (the power).

We are masters/mistresses of our own destiny as far as I can see. You have to take back your own power

It took me a long time to get to this and this little story helped me see that, for such a long time, I would have plumped for a or b – it just didn’t occur to me that there was another option that I was strong enough to choose.

Once I went NC, there have been many other issues to deal with in the healing process but at least I have my ‘power’ back.

We are masters/mistresses of our own destiny as far as I can see.

Free will and all that ……………..

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]]> By: Leah http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/07/02/the-narcissist%e2%80%99s-commandments/comment-page-8/#comment-42285 Leah Thu, 23 Jul 2009 19:26:19 +0000 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/07/02/the-narcissist%e2%80%99s-commandments/#comment-42285 Wow, I just made that statement a week ago - about dying on my feet rather than living on my knees - to my now-former therapist, who was very nice and a good listener but more afraid of the ex-vampire than I was and probably inadvertently reinforced my problematic passive tendencies. I'm glad for you, Matt, that you got to that point so much sooner than I did. Wow, I just made that statement a week ago – about dying on my feet rather than living on my knees – to my now-former therapist, who was very nice and a good listener but more afraid of the ex-vampire than I was and probably inadvertently reinforced my problematic passive tendencies.

I’m glad for you, Matt, that you got to that point so much sooner than I did.

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]]> By: Matt http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/07/02/the-narcissist%e2%80%99s-commandments/comment-page-8/#comment-42265 Matt Thu, 23 Jul 2009 17:40:03 +0000 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/07/02/the-narcissist%e2%80%99s-commandments/#comment-42265 Newman: "I also believe that children of sociopaths or people who have been previously involved with a sociopath tend to recognize their behavior as normal." Well, praise the Lord and pass the ammunition, sister! I grew up with an N mother and an S father. I still remember telling my mother when I was in my teens that she was suffocating me with her control. Her response? "Everybody has somebody controlling them." The will to fight back was knocked out of me in that instance. Then throw in the manipulation, deceitfulness, untrustworthiness, exploitation, etc. That early conditioning set me up perfectly for a long, long line of N/S/ BPDs who wreaaked havoc in my life. Why? Because their behavior struck me as perfectly normal. After all, everybody has somebody controlling them, right? Not anymore. I have adopted FDR's statement (at least I think it was FDR) "Better to die on your feet than survive on your kneees." Newman:

“I also believe that children of sociopaths or people who have been previously involved with a sociopath tend to recognize their behavior as normal.”

Well, praise the Lord and pass the ammunition, sister!

I grew up with an N mother and an S father. I still remember telling my mother when I was in my teens that she was suffocating me with her control. Her response? “Everybody has somebody controlling them.”

The will to fight back was knocked out of me in that instance. Then throw in the manipulation, deceitfulness, untrustworthiness, exploitation, etc. That early conditioning set me up perfectly for a long, long line of N/S/ BPDs who wreaaked havoc in my life. Why? Because their behavior struck me as perfectly normal. After all, everybody has somebody controlling them, right?

Not anymore. I have adopted FDR’s statement (at least I think it was FDR) “Better to die on your feet than survive on your kneees.”

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]]> By: henry http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/07/02/the-narcissist%e2%80%99s-commandments/comment-page-8/#comment-42261 henry Thu, 23 Jul 2009 17:17:09 +0000 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/07/02/the-narcissist%e2%80%99s-commandments/#comment-42261 The ultimate final discard belongs to us and it is our salvation. The ultimate final discard belongs to us and it is our salvation.

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]]> By: TNewman http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/07/02/the-narcissist%e2%80%99s-commandments/comment-page-8/#comment-42251 TNewman Thu, 23 Jul 2009 13:57:24 +0000 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/07/02/the-narcissist%e2%80%99s-commandments/#comment-42251 <p>You're right again and we must NEVER forget that it is our caring nature that helped to get us romantically involved with sociopaths in the first place! I also believe that children of sociopaths or people who have been previously involved with a sociopath tend to recognize their behavior as normal. I don't think we are ever able to clearly see them for what they really are until we remove ourselves from their presence or come out of the fog...like you said. It's amazing how much differently these people look once that has happened. There's a sense of relief that comes with the removal of them from our lives that we don't readily understand even if we are the ones to be discarded by them. You’re right again and we must NEVER forget that it is our caring nature that helped to get us romantically involved with sociopaths in the first place! I also believe that children of sociopaths or people who have been previously involved with a sociopath tend to recognize their behavior as normal. I don’t think we are ever able to clearly see them for what they really are until we remove ourselves from their presence or come out of the fog…like you said. It’s amazing how much differently these people look once that has happened. There’s a sense of relief that comes with the removal of them from our lives that we don’t readily understand even if we are the ones to be discarded by them.

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]]> By: OxDrover http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/07/02/the-narcissist%e2%80%99s-commandments/comment-page-8/#comment-42249 OxDrover Thu, 23 Jul 2009 13:25:56 +0000 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/07/02/the-narcissist%e2%80%99s-commandments/#comment-42249 Tami, I got to thinnking about what I posted to you above and I realized that I think we have spent so much of our time being "disappointed"--"guilty"--"sad" etc over not beintg able to fix people, and now though I DO try to help people, I do NOT grieve over my inability to fix them. Helping I think is being "available" but if they are not willing to take that help, we cannot blame ourselves and say "oh, if I could just find the perfect way to get through to them" and then blame ourselves for not being able to get through to them. We can only do waht we can do, the rest is up to them. Tami, I got to thinnking about what I posted to you above and I realized that I think we have spent so much of our time being “disappointed”–”guilty”–”sad” etc over not beintg able to fix people, and now though I DO try to help people, I do NOT grieve over my inability to fix them. Helping I think is being “available” but if they are not willing to take that help, we cannot blame ourselves and say “oh, if I could just find the perfect way to get through to them” and then blame ourselves for not being able to get through to them. We can only do waht we can do, the rest is up to them.

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]]> By: TNewman http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/07/02/the-narcissist%e2%80%99s-commandments/comment-page-7/#comment-42248 TNewman Thu, 23 Jul 2009 13:08:18 +0000 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/07/02/the-narcissist%e2%80%99s-commandments/#comment-42248 Yes, I have reached that conclusion. I guess I have so many regrets of not heeding good advice that I so badly wanted to "save" someone else from the horrific life that I lived for so many years. But, I have a wonderful life now free of all the inappropriate behavior displayed by sociopaths. I have PEACE. I wrote her back this morning and pretty much told her that. It dawned on me that I had spent over 20 years of my life dealing with sociopaths...possibly more...because my mother's personality is a very close fit, too. I can't do this anymore. I have everything I've ever dreamed of and I don't want to mess it up by allowing these people to be a part of my daily thoughts. Yes, I have reached that conclusion. I guess I have so many regrets of not heeding good advice that I so badly wanted to “save” someone else from the horrific life that I lived for so many years. But, I have a wonderful life now free of all the inappropriate behavior displayed by sociopaths. I have PEACE. I wrote her back this morning and pretty much told her that. It dawned on me that I had spent over 20 years of my life dealing with sociopaths…possibly more…because my mother’s personality is a very close fit, too. I can’t do this anymore. I have everything I’ve ever dreamed of and I don’t want to mess it up by allowing these people to be a part of my daily thoughts.

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]]> By: OxDrover http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/07/02/the-narcissist%e2%80%99s-commandments/comment-page-7/#comment-42244 OxDrover Thu, 23 Jul 2009 12:05:34 +0000 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/07/02/the-narcissist%e2%80%99s-commandments/#comment-42244 Dear Tami, Sweetie, you have a caring and loving heart, but while I think you have a good awareness logically that you can't help Biddy, there is that part of you that wants to "help" her---and she is NOT going to be helped because she is in the FOG and TOXIC HOPE, just like you were. I do hope she will come out of it, but it will only be in HER OWN TIME, just like you did. Until SHE finally decides to come out of the FOG of her own, I think your being involved with her is just a "game" for her (though she doesn't even realize it) and she gets a "pay off" when she gets "sympathy" and "notice" from you. Dr. Eric Berne would call it a "game" of "Oh, ain't it awful?" where she tells you how awful her husband is being, then you agree wit hher and tell her to leave, whereupon she changes the game to, "Yes, but...." I have to stay, or I love him, or I can't help who I love, etc.\ You are right, we CAN make choices and we can refuse to put up with abuse, we can refuse to play games and live an honest life of love and intimacy, but it is up to US to do that for ourselves. While still having compassion for her or anyone who chooses to remain in an abusive relationship, I suggest that you be honest with her and say "Biddy, I am sorry you are choosing to stay with him and let him abuse and use you, but it is up to you" and then back off, and if she tries to hook you back into rescuing you, only to fling herself back into the river, let her float on down stream. Trying to drag her out of the flood against her will, will only get you pulled back into the emotional turmoil. I think you have done all you can for her at this point. If she actually leaves him, maybe you can be there to support her decision. You're an awesome and compassionate person, Tami, but she has to rescue herself! ((((hugs)))) and prayers for you and her. " Dear Tami,

Sweetie, you have a caring and loving heart, but while I think you have a good awareness logically that you can’t help Biddy, there is that part of you that wants to “help” her—and she is NOT going to be helped because she is in the FOG and TOXIC HOPE, just like you were. I do hope she will come out of it, but it will only be in HER OWN TIME, just like you did.

Until SHE finally decides to come out of the FOG of her own, I think your being involved with her is just a “game” for her (though she doesn’t even realize it) and she gets a “pay off” when she gets “sympathy” and “notice” from you. Dr. Eric Berne would call it a “game” of “Oh, ain’t it awful?” where she tells you how awful her husband is being, then you agree wit hher and tell her to leave, whereupon she changes the game to, “Yes, but….” I have to stay, or I love him, or I can’t help who I love, etc.\

You are right, we CAN make choices and we can refuse to put up with abuse, we can refuse to play games and live an honest life of love and intimacy, but it is up to US to do that for ourselves.

While still having compassion for her or anyone who chooses to remain in an abusive relationship, I suggest that you be honest with her and say “Biddy, I am sorry you are choosing to stay with him and let him abuse and use you, but it is up to you” and then back off, and if she tries to hook you back into rescuing you, only to fling herself back into the river, let her float on down stream. Trying to drag her out of the flood against her will, will only get you pulled back into the emotional turmoil. I think you have done all you can for her at this point. If she actually leaves him, maybe you can be there to support her decision.

You’re an awesome and compassionate person, Tami, but she has to rescue herself! ((((hugs)))) and prayers for you and her.
“

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