BOOK REVIEW: The Socially Skilled Child Molester
PDF By Ox Drover
I recently read The Socially Skilled Child Molester: Differentiating the Guilty from the Falsely Accused, by Carla van Dam, Ph.D.
Carla van Dam, Ph.D., is a clinical and forensic psychologist who has practiced in the U.S. and Canada, and taught in several universities. She is well known in the community of those who focus on primary prevention strategies to help end child sexual abuse. One of her previous books was Identifying Child Molesters: Preventing Child Sexual Abuse by Recognizing the Patterns of Offenders.
Several of the reviews of this book pretty well sum up my opinion of this well-written book.
“The Socially Skilled Child Molester provides a thorough description of common types of child molesters, most importantly, distinguishing between ‘grabbers’ and ‘groomers.’” Kelly Simonson, Ph.D.
“A provocative analysis of four types of smarter, richer, socially skilled and often litigious offenders as opposed to the cruder, more frequently captured types. Such offenders, whom the author calls ‘groomers,’ usually spend more time cultivating the good graces of family members, neighborhoods, and whole communities rather than selecting and seducing their victims. These offenders are usually regarded as upstanding pillars of the community, and include businessmen, priests, judges, coaches, teachers and volunteers…” Thomas R. O’Connor, Ph.D.
“Carla van Dam carefully describes the various child molesters who sit next to us in our churches and synagogues, go to the theater, and eat in the same restaurants with us. They continue to harm children because they fool us into thinking that such nice guys couldn’t do such a terrible thing.” Lenore E. Walker, Ed.D. (Dr. Walker was a pioneer in the defense of women who faced criminal charges for attacking their long-time abusers. Her books include The Battered Woman, The Battered Woman Syndrome, Handbook of Child Sexual Abuse, and Abused Women and Survivor Therapy.)
Having personally been well acquainted for a number of years with one of the most prolific child abusers, totaling over 1500 victims, Charles “Jackie” Walls, III, who is currently serving life without parole in Arkansas Department of Corrections, I know how easy it is for these “socially skilled” child molesters to pass for “upstanding citizens” in the community for decades, all the while doing damage to so many. Though I never liked Jackie because he was an obvious narcissistic creep, it never dawned on me, I never had the faintest inkling, that he was living this dual life of upstanding family man and Boy Scout volunteer of the year during the daytime, and monster at night.
Dr. van Dam’s book gives a clear and precise directions for spotting the warning signs in a predator who is socially skilled and highly thought of in the community, who presents himself as the “too good to be true” businessman, priest, rabbi, physician, nurse, volunteer, etc., who is too helpful, too private, too attentive to children, too touchy with children, too involved with image management, too one-sided in relationships, always giving, never taking, too opportunistic, too superficial, too prone to violate boundaries of personal space and privacy, too aggressive when confronted, too quick to drop friendships when children grow older, too likely to disappear when contact with children is denied, altogether too charming . . . and, too good to be true.
Dr. van Dam divides her book into 10 chapters, as follows:
Chapter 1. “Understanding the Problem” focuses on the fact that the “groomers,” as she calls them, are well-socialized child molesters and behave as if they were addicted to sexual contact with children.
Chapter 2. “Child Molesters in Their Natural Habitat” familiarizes readers with the operating styles of the groomers and allows them to notice the often-predictable practices so that readers can more effectively prevent child sexual abuse.
Chapter 3. “Current Practices” provides the reader with information on the inadequacies of the way child sexual abuse is addressed by communities.
Chapter 4. “Not All Child Molesters Are Alike.” This chapter gives a closer focus on the vocabulary used to describe sexual misconduct. Child molesters do much damage to children by first carefully grooming adults in order to gain access to children.
Chapter 5. “Common Misperceptions.” This chapter focuses on groomers’ excuses and explanations when their conduct is challenged. These are hackneyed clichés that are often misconstrued as sincere. Everyone needs to know these well enough to recognize them when they occur.
Chapter 6. “Accurately Differentiating Danger.” This provides the framework to understand how the behaviors of groomers often vary from those whose conduct should not be worrisome. It points out that behavioral patterns of successful groomers vary significantly from those who are not child molesters.
Chapter 7. “A Framework for Understanding Child Sexual Abuse.” Using an iceberg as an analogy of the groomer’s behavior, this chapter gives information to the reader about how to expose the groomer’s operating strategies to protect children.
Chapter 8. “Interviewing Child Molesters.” This shows the reader that though groomers are incredibly successful liars, the lies they tell can be identified, and are often predictable. This allows the reader to be less gullible and better protect their children.
Chapter 9. “Predicting Risk.” This chapter deals with differentiating convicted offenders from the less to the more dangerous.
Chapter 10. “Incorporating Corroborating Evidence.” This chapter brings all the information together for both professionals and for families in ways to network in the community to protect our children from predators.
This book, in my opinion, is a must-have for anyone who wants to protect children, in their own home and in the community. While Dr. van Dam does not think that all pedophiles qualify as psychopaths, she does say that they “lack empathy, and experience no real remorse as shown by their actual behaviors.”
Although this book focuses on child molesters, many of the practices that the groomers use are familiar to some of us who have met sociopaths who looked like such “good people” and turned out to be such bad nightmares. The book may also be interesting to people who want to understand more about how a bad person can hide in plain sight.
To purchase the book, go to Amazon.com:
The Socially Skilled Child Molester: Differentiating the Guilty from the Falsely Accused.
written by Joyce Alexander • Permalink •
brian92680 says:
If this is the case, then psychopaths in sexual “relationships” with adults should more accurately be called adult molesters or adult groomers. It also means that tactics like parental involvement when their grown child is exposed to a potential P/S may work, because it shows the predator that a parent will look out for their child even if grown.
I’ve always believed that the difference between a psychopath in an adult sexual relationship and a child molester is simply that psychopaths target adults.
Your comments about sociopaths not being straight or gay also apply to pedophiles, who are not considered to be gay if they go after kids of the same sex, or straight if they go after kids of the opposite sex. Kids are what the pedophile is attracted to. Likewise, the psychopath uses sexual relationships to gain power over adults.
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OxDrover says:
Dear Brian,
RIGHT YOU ARE!!! Part of the differences though is that our ADULT children don’t always listen to us and as ADULTS can make their OWN decisions about having sex with a Psychopath.
My son C was targeted by a P, and he married her….later, she tried to kill him, but in the meantime during the marriage she distanced him from his family so that she could keep control over him.
I never liked this woman from the get-go, she was deceptive, that was all I could make out, just DECEPTIVE…I cautioned my son to WAIT about marrying her, but in fact this ended up getting her to push for immediate marriage “before your mother breaks us up” She “won” and I “lost” that round. It took almost 8 years before he was released from his marriage vows (he took them SERIOUSLY and though he was not happy wit hher after the first few months, he doggedly stuck to them) when she tried to kill him. Her going to jail was the best thing that ever happened to him. Now I have my son back, and a wiser son he is. He now knows about psychopaths!
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KATYA says:
OMG, Brian, thank you for saying this:
If this is the case, then psychopaths in sexual “relationships” with adults should more accurately be called adult molesters or adult groomers. It also means that tactics like parental involvement when their grown child is exposed to a potential P/S may work, because it shows the predator that a parent will look out for their child even if grown.
In my case, it’s absolutely what happened, I can see it clearly now. he’s my parents’ age and he did treat me with utmost “grooming and respect”. He “was like a father figure to me, and a friend and a lover”. My parents tried to warn me but I shut them right out. How precisely you put this: adult molesters. Thank you.
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OxDrover says:
Katya,
In the past I have been warned by others to NOT TRUST psychopaths, and they had already GROOMED me to where I would NOT listen to my friends and family’s warning. The “love bombing” and “grooming” that the Ps do early on make us “deaf” to the WARNINGS.
There are several threads here about “should I warn the next victim?” He/She will probably NOT listen to you because of teh “groomer’s” pulling the wool over their eyes AT FIRST and hooking them in. One of the Ps I was warned about i went to work for her, another one I was warned about was a business partner….IN THE FUTURE, I WILL LISTEN TO WARNINGS, but at the time, I didn’t listen because I thought the person warning me had an agenda or was just “wrong”—-my son C did not listen to me either when I tried to warn him about his GF, later wife, and now, thank you God! X-wife!!!!
Over and over I have seen posts here about people being warned and not listening, or warning and not being heard! The Ps are CRAFTY and many times make us feel “special” and maybe they cheated on their X-wife, but she was a biatch and they would never cheat on US, because we are “special”—NOT!!! If they will do bad things to others they will do them to us in time.
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KATYA says:
OxDrover,
I think we cannot give up, should not give up with the Warnings. Going back to the beginning of time, it’s the fight of good vs evil. If we stop warning or trying to warn, if we stop educating, and stand by licking our wounds, what does this make us? I am looking for ways to warn his other victims. I want to protect my son, self and family first and foremost, but I will not be at peace until he shows his true face to them (the one that is behind the mask). Maybe, it’s wrong and maybe, I will lose, but I will “die standing”.
His daughter who had suffered with him plenty said that my son’s spirit “chose us as parents” for higher learning. Is this a victim mentality or what? Lucky for me, enough people believe me and believe in me that I won’t need her testimony and if I do, I will compel her through court. You are right – they will do it again and again. But, I want to prevent the hurt he’s bound to cause and I do want to punish him. What does this make me?
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OxDrover says:
Dear Katya,
One of the things about a psychopath is that “punishment” doesn’t faze them….even PRISON. My P-son is in prison, has spent 100% of his adult life there (except for 4 months) he is 38, and he still considers himself A SUCCESS. DUH?!?
If you wil lread Dr. Robert Hare’s book, “Without Conscience” (Dr. Hare is THE premiere P researcher) he will tell you that punishment has NO effect on them.
Also, as we get further along the road toward Healing our desires to punish them seem in most cases to get less and less until we are at a point we neither hate them or love them, we reach INDIFFERENCE.
We would have to make a career out of “warning” their next victims, because when they get done with one they pick another. I have come to the conclusion as have many others that trying to keep a jump ahead of them to warn their next victims (who 99.9% of the time–I made up that statistic!) won’t listen anyway. It ends up EATING at our souls, renting them rooms in our minds, heads and hearts, and keeps the scabs torn off our wounds so they will never heal.
Your feeling this way though, is very normal and natural and is a ‘stage” on the “road to healing”–I doubt that it will last as you get further alone, though, but don’t worry—you will move to and through the stages of healing as you are ready.
As for your son, I know that you want to protect him from your X, that will in itself be a BIG JOB! ((((hugs)))) and my prayers.
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KATYA says:
Thank you for your wisdom, OxDrover. I hope I will soon be at that other stage you speak of. This is something that I have as a part of my personality: righteousness. I often stood on the side of the oppressed and that is how I gained respect, but most importantly – others’ notice of those who are victimized (be it by the system or their circumstance). I know prison does nothing for the psychopath, because punishment has to be of different nature: their failure at manipulative success would be their natural punishment. PAIN of HAVING to work HARD labor 10 hours a day would be a punishment. Our prisons are not made this way but for once, I am for GULAGs. Self – pity, – why they can have it till they drown in it. I know I am rambling I am sorry. Thank you for reading this…
Btw, I may have said it elsewhere: he has NO idea how much he’s helping me recover with his clown court case. He has no idea how much better off I am after he’s shown who he is to me. If he had just moved on with no consequence to either one of us, I think I’d be more depressed, more in pain and would have never found this site, sought support for my Mental Health and been so in – tune with my family members. Meanwhile, I had to apologize to my parents who heard “Stay out of it” way too often from me and who heard “he’s better than any of you” once too much. I had to apologize to my kids and I had to accept my faults and guilt and stupidity. “Duty to warn” is something I was taught. I hope this boundary will be ever more clear to me. Thank you!
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KATYA says:
I am sorry about your son. There seems to be a definite commonality: despite it all, they feel entitled and they feel well achieved. Mine said a lot: I am a good guy. I now know what he meant. (it’s who you compare him to).
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Tood says:
Hey Katya,
Believe me, even if your “personal” P gets away, you will find that the more you learn about these disordered, evil creeps, the easier they will be to spot. And you’ll find yourself warning others in ways you never dreamed.
My youngest daughter calls these abilities “our new superpowers.” You’ll have plenty of opportunity to warn others about S/N/Ps in general. So even if you lose the game with “your” P, you might win in your attempts to warn others. Heck, by posting here, you’re doing it right now!
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KATYA says:
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OxDrover says:
Katya,
I’ve dealt with these monsters from my conception, and their dupes who enable them, and only in the last couple of years have I gone NC with them ALL…only now am I icoming to peace with MY life, and not living their drama-rama.
I am not so arrogant any more that I think I can spot them 100% but they always leave a hint, I believe, and I am looking and SEEING, not excusing people’ who use and abuse others. I am “weeding my garden of life” of all the toxic weeds that have been growing there far too long. And better yet, my two wonderful sons are also learning to take a hoe and “chop the roe” free of weeds in their lives as well.
I realize that my own allowing of weeds to grow in my life has been an example for them. Not setting appropriate boundaries on my part has inhibited their learning as well. Now they too are learning to set appropriate boundaries.
I also realize my life’s mission is not to clean up the messes made by others, and not to keep the “secrets” of bad behavior on the part of others. I am a peace maker, NOT A “PEACE KEEPER.” The primary person I made peace for is ME.
I am learning to put myself first! It is only when we do that, I think, that we can truly give to others.
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Betty says:
“I am a peace maker, NOT A “PEACE KEEPER.” The primary person I made peace for is ME.” Oxy, thank you for writing that!
The thing I’m struggling with the most is learning to take care of myself, so the things that I need to do to be independent — and not measure my self-worth by the approval I get from others when I meet their needs.
I don’t mean to be selfish, but I want to continue to develop healthy boundaries so that it’s me AND others that are my focus, and not just others with me left out. My assigned role in my family of origin was peacekeeper. Not good: my focus was always supposed to be on everyone else. It just doesn’t work! But peacemaker — that means I start with me, creating my own peace first.
I think the reason it’s so challenging is that it feels very strange and new, and stepping outside the old role of a lifetime is hard. But I’ve started to think of those old dysfunctional coping mechanisms as the target sign on my back for n/ps to aim at, and that, plus the sincere aspiration to create my own happiness, is pushing me forward.
Thanks to everybody for what you’re posting here! My family doesn’t get it, and you guys are helping me keep on course for healing!
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James says:
Oxy,
(I am learning to put myself first! It is only when we do that, I think, that we can truly give to others)
I believe this is so true on so many other levels. Like to love another person one need to learn to love oneself.
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Escapee says:
Blueskies
Read your last post with sadness. My experience of an S was with an adult partner so the context was different to yours – that kind of betrayal (yours), I think, is somehow even worse (though I think the emotional pain we suffer is often very similar).
I think it’s human nature that we respond to those whose experiences are of a similar ilk because we can have genuine empathy for those experiences. When someone else’s experience are as yours, I always feel it would be a little condescending for me to profer advice or say ‘I know how you feel’ – I can only imagine that – so please don’t think you are being ignored or overlooked.
The devastation and exhaustion in the aftermath of a P/S/N in one’s life can be paralysing at times and here on LF, everyone seems to understand this – that’s why i hope you keep contributing and sharing with us – sometimes, someone whose experience has been wholly different to mine will say something and the ‘lightbulb’ goes on – it’s another little nuggat that helps me climb the ladder to healing my head, heart and soul.
For some people here, the healing will be a lifetime’s work, for others, they/we may move beyond the pain more quickly – we all need the understanding and empathy of each other to help in this process.
All love and good wishes to you.
Keep posting for strength.
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OxDrover says:
Escapee, your post to Blueskies, was so right on! so compassionate and empathetic. I am so glad you are here with us on LF!
Betty and James, it took me a long time to realize that “peace KEEPING” was not the same as “peace MAKING” Im not even sure where the concept came from when it finally hit me, something someone here said, or a book, (CRS) I read, but the idea that I had to keep the family SECRETS so that the bad-guy wouldn’t suffer from HIS bad behavior, i.e. KEEP THE PEACE at ANY PRICE—-to myself of course, I was the one who paid the price. This is not a new concept that I developed in any way, it is the old enabler thing, I was required to enable the other person to keep on using me and others for a door mat and I didn’t want to confront their behavior and “upset” THEM! We had to PRETEND TO BE A NICE NORMAL FAMILY no matter what it took to cover up the family monster’s abusive/bad behavior.
In my generation and memory, it started with my egg donor’s brother, Uncle Monster, and went on until my P-son replaced Uncle Monster as the family bad boy. In fact, though, it has gone on through the generations that when I was doing genealogy I found out went in a straight line back to a man born in 1800 and even this man’s brother’s family. It has been passed on like a “family curse” both in genetics and in the “raising.”
The peace KEEPERS were expected to sacrifice themselves and their happiness and dignity on the alter of the Psychopath’s abuse and, above all else, KEEP THEIR MOUTHS SHUT.
I learned the concept of taking care of yourself first a long time ago, but didn’t put it into PRACTICE until recently when I realized I did not have to “walk on egg shells” to keep from “upsetting” those people who were using and abusing me. I FOUND I HAD OTHER OPTIONS—like kicking them out of my life altogether. Like standing up and saying, “this isn’t working for me.” Or, “I won’t sit still for that kind of behavior.”
Learning to set boundaries is a good thing. Of course, no matter HOW MANY boundaries you set for a P they will not respect ANY of them. Anyone who DOES CARE FOR YOU will respect your boundaries, but people who don’t respect your boundaries are NOT people you want in your life.
I realize that some people we work with, or do business with will not respect our boundaries and we don’t have th power to get them entirely out of our lives, “there is always one” no matter what group you are in, but in our personal life we don’t have to associate with these people. NC FOREVER!
I remember crying for three days last summer when I started to set some boundaries with some “long time friends” (a couple) who were abusing my hospitality and literally stealing from me. I went through the whole thing with my son D and asked him if my boundary was reasonable? Now, when I feel the need to set a boundary, I SET IT and move on. It is like the “training wheels” are off now and I am learning to set the boundaries…..seeing the NEED for a boundary is now when I feel an irritation or guilt or some little feeling, I don’t wait.
It may be as little as on eof my sons leaving something he has used out and not putting it back, so that it irritates me. I go to him and say “Son, I get irritated when you use my things and don’t put them back, would you please put away the things you use?” I don’t wait until the irritation has built lup and I “explode.” I keep it current.
Any time you set a boundary though, you must be willing to FOLLOW through with it and realize that the relationship may not survive if the other person is not willing to respect your boundaries. But at the same time, why would you want a relationship with someone who won’t respect your boundaries?
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Escapee says:
Oxy
Really need to get off this site and do my garden! But your posts have been fantastically helpful to me.
Quite apart from anything else, you make me laugh so much. I love ‘egg-donor- and Uncle Monster. Humour definitely helps me, at times, to get life in context. I think this is also a very healthy way of ‘diminishing’ their importance in our psyche.
Your ‘walking on eggshells’ comment really hit home with me. It turned me into a nervous wreck – all that second guessing about what would make him ‘kick off’ – and, as you’ll know, it changed from moment to moment.
Thanks.
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OxDrover says:
Dear Escapee,
After going NC with my egg donor, I decided she had not been a “mother” to me, because that requires nurturing, not absolute control, and so yes, I came up with that term, as well as “Uncle Monster”—and he WAS THAT for sure! I think the term “mother” and “father” are titles that are EARNED not by donating an egg or sperm to a conception. My wonderful step-father was my “daddy” and he EARNED THAT TITLE completely with the love and approval and encouragement he gave to me, and he kept my egg donor off my back as much as he could, I realize in retrospect. So I did have ONE oarent though he was not biologically related to me. I will be forever grateful for his input into my life and in the woman I am today. He had a P-dar, and could pick out “toxic” people, and he was seldom wrong when he told me “honey, So-and-so ‘ just won’t do’ ” He might not be able to verbalize what it was about that person that made him “know” about that person as being toxic, but he sure had some kind of 6th sense. I really can’t remember a time he was wrong. If he decided someone was toxic he never trusted them again. I know he did not trust my P son, and yet, I kept up the malignant home, and once you had refused my dad’s “advice” about that person, he didn’t keep on “harping” about it—I wish he had done so mroe often and not quit harping, maybe I would have listened more. (and maybe not LOL!!!)
I;m glad my posts are helpfull to you, maybe it is an “ill wind that blows no one good” and by my experiences you can learn about protecting yourself more in the future. God alone knows how utterly UNAWARE I was of what was causing me so much pain, how I DENIED and EXCUSED those that would abuse me, how I “walked on egg shells” (don’t know where I got that phrase, but it was not original with me and is frequently quoted by former victims) to keep from “hurting their feelings” or exposing them for the MONSTERS they were/are.
Now, when I get the irritation of someone doing something that irritates me, I look to see first off if what they are doing is legitimately crossing a reasonable boundary, if it is, then I CONFRONT it head on….and I still have a way to go before I am “perfect” (like I would ever be!!!) with this, but I AM learning more and more….to confront things that people do to me, or around me, or messes that they leave for me to clean up. If upon examination, I find that I am picking up someone else’s “dirty laundry” (literally or figuratively) then I STOP, confront them, suggest that they clean up after themselves, and if they don’t, there will be consequences for THEM, not another job for ME. Even if that means that the relationship ENDS, I really haven’t lost anything if it does.
This is a totally NEW life style for me and looking at things differently than the way i was raised, so it is taking practice, and sometimes I fail at it, but i AM getting better at it. Requiring that others be responsible for themselves, and not making ME responsible for their problems. It doesn’t mean I can’t share or help, it just means that I am NOT RESPONSIBLE for others, and that there is reciprocity between friends, not “caretaking.”
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Escapee says:
Oxy
Can’t imagine what it must have been like to have your N/P/S be your own mother. I was blessed with mine and she was my rock (sadly lost her 7 years ago but she and her wisdom is alway in my heart) – makes me realise that, though, she left us relatively early, her strength and love are still my points of reference to this day. Always kind – always understanding. She, like you, had an alcoholic S as a husband and all his rotten family to contend with too – 9 of them and 8 out of 9 crazy alchies. They were a pretty cruel lot and nothing in her upbrining had prepared her for this (she called it the ‘Adam’s streak’ – his – and my surname – though no longer) – in the days before the terms sociopath I guess.
She once told me it took her till she was 52 till the ‘lightbulb’ finally went on and she left him. She had only 15 years of peace and 9 of them untangling the ‘mess’ via al-anon.
She always told me: ‘don’t waste it dolly – it’s precious and you need to be good to yourself’ – good advice I think. shame I lost my way a bit then……… all love to you for your posts – they reinforce all my lovely mammy taught me.
Thanks.
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alohatraveler says:
Great article Oxy. I will have to add this to my must read stack.. that is turning into a tower. I am a slow reader.
(
Aloha
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blueskies says:
Hi everyone.
I want to start by thanking you ALL for your kind comments, and by apologising for disappearing like I have:(
Hyper-sensitive and overwhelmed are the perfect descriptions of my emotional state during the period leading up to and when I wrote that last post:(
I also think joy nailed it with this comment ‘feeling insecure and expecting criticism because we have been subjected to it for so long by our involvement with our abusers.’ Its not a good place to be.
I think I should also add isolated to the list. I am so sorry guys:(
Reading Shabby’s and kathy’s and Oxys and LTL’s and Rosa’s and Jane’s and EVERYONE’s responses made me break down in tears …and feel thoroughly pathetic for throwing my toys out of the push-chair like that:(xxx thank you all so much.
I felt/feel like I have fallen down another great big hole with my thinking:( There is so much coming up for me out of this, I am emotionally and physically exhausted. In realising that I have spent my whole life surrounded by abusers, who HAVE to go because they’re STILL at it… I have become terrified, terrified at the idea that I cant find ANYWHERE safe to ‘run to’ including psychologically, I just cant get my head around everything. I feel like a complete crazy and a completely pathetic victim.I’m having trouble separating all this stuff out.
Anyway, I am here and reading again and once again finding help and wisdom from you wonderful folk. I may not post, or if I do, may not get responses, but I am going to be here, not ‘flouncing’ off, but trying to help myself:)xxxxxxxxxx
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OxDrover says:
Dear Blueskies,
Hon, even though each of us experience this life we have lead differently, there are enough commonalities in how we have all experienced some of this “crazy” making with the psychopaths that believe it or not, I understand where you are….been there myself. In fact, I wrote an article about this sort of thing a while back that is here somewhere in the archives.
In our own pain, we strike out at the hand that is extended to us in comforting and caring assistance….when you are in SUCH pain, it consumes one. Once I fell and hurt my leg badly and my loving husband extended his hand to help me us and I SCREAMED at him “don’t touch me!!!!” Other times I have struck out at those that were trying to comfort me because I was in such pain!
Pain, your pain, my pain, other’s pains, according to dr. Viktor Frankl in his book “Man’s search for meaning” which he wrote after being in a Nazi concentration camp, “fills us entirely” whether it is a “small pain” or a “large one.”
A toddler who drops his toy cries TOTALLY IN PAIN of his loss, though WE as adults don’t see his loss as the “end of the world” HE DOES! So while others may not see your pain as the TOTALITY that it is, here on LF the other posters have experienced their own total loss and so WE grasp what you are going through much more easily.
I’m so glad you are here, this is a healing and caring place and you have fellow travelers here on our own journeys toward the ‘city limits of Healing”—- ((((hugs)))) and my prayers for you my dear!
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ANewLily says:
Dear Blueeyes, I don’t think you need to apologize for “disappearing.” You were taking care of yourself — as you SHOULD. I don’t think there is a one of us that doesn’t understand that — because we have “been there,” too.
Peraonally, I’m very glad you are back. Even though, I still am a “newbie” here sort of, I missed you!!
My prayers and thoughts are with you as you continue your goal of getting rid of the abusers in your life. You’ll make it. I know you will.
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blueskies says:
Thank you both:) ANewLily and Oxy.
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ANewLily says:
Blueskies, you are welcome. I am not going to apologize for mistakenly calling you “blueeyes” instead of “blueskies,” though.
When I realized my mistake, I had pleasant memories of my mother’s and father’s sky blue eyes. (Mine are greenish blue)
They are long gone to their heavenly mansions but I still miss them and remember them fondly.
I have so often wished that other posters here had had parents like mine, instead of their disordered ones. My heart breaks just thinking about their loss — and additional wounds.
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OxDrover says:
Dear Escapee,
My whole family is full of them, waaaaay back past my gg grandfather on one side and my g-grandfather on the other, and who knows how many more. Plus my sperm donor was a raving dangerous P, and my youngest biological son is one, and the x-wife of my other son is a P, both of my sons’ grandfathers are Ps, plus, I have worked for them, had them work for me, been busienss partners with them, dated them, had them as teachers in college, etc. i counted up the other day “just for fun:” and named off THE Ps I HAVE KNOWN and just off the top of my head came up with a list of 45 that had significantly impacted my life…not counting the ones that I knew that impacted others but not me directly.
Then if you count the ones that are not flaming Ps, but just jerks, that’s a lot of crap to deal with in even my entire 62 and a half years! I’m just tired of them, tired of the drama-rama and ready for some PEACE on EARTH! LOL
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shabbychic says:
Hi Blueskies! Yes, I am still here reading, I feel crazy too, you guys are helping me figure things out!
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JaneSmith says:
Blueskies,
Welcome back, sweetheart!
We most certainly missed you although the lovely ShabbyChic seems to have missed you oodles and oodles! Such a loyal and sweet gal she is! And her rockin humor gives me plenty of happy giggles!
I can remember the emotional turmoil I dealt with in the aftermath of loving predators (yeah, ain’t that swell? more than one in my life, but they is in the past…gone, baby gone!)
What you have felt and are still feeling is quite natural. Some of it not so good but expected. I didn’t see you as throwing a tantrum and I bet noone else on LF thinks that either.
I saw/see you as a loving woman who is trying to heal herself from heartbreak, betrayal, deception and misery. That’s some big scary stuff to work through. The pain can be immense, unbearable at times. I get that, doll. We get that. We can understand and genuinely empathize with your situation, your experiences.
I think it’s great, super even that you’re back among your friends, your kindred spirits because guess what? You can “run to” us any time and we will be there with our arms wide open and ready to give you a good squeeze and hug!
**Good vibrations and positive healing energy for the lovely Blueskies**
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learnthelesson says:
Dear Blueskies,
Welcome back to your LF “home”….its safe here…to vent, to share, to express, to give and to receive…and most importantly to say whatever is on your mind…
I actually thought about my journey that initially landed me here.. and all of the two steps forward Ive accomplished as well as setbacks Ive experienced since the day I arrived here asking if I was crazy or the problem in my relationship with my xtox…. wow, was I in such a BAD PLACE, CONFUSED, HEART BROKEN, FEELING USED and ABUSED, etc. etc…
When I say its been a journey, it REALLY has been… stay committed to yourself, be true to your inner voice, embrace the lows and celebrate the highs…breathe, look up to the blueskies knowing THERE WILL BE BETTER DAYS….the safest place I run to now is to myself, my inner strength and reserve, in the past I ran from ME to others, now I turn to myself first before anyone else and let myself know there is someone who loves me and cares about me and will always be here for me…MYSELF! And when my foundation is challenged I have this safe healing place to turn to …to read inspirational words and seek support and advice. So glad you are here…dont be too hard on yourself… take one day at a time and know you are cared about and will be ok…its a journey…for us all… xoxo
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Rosa says:
I just finished reading this book last week.
There’s a lot of good information in it for parents, the general public, or anyone who wants to protect their children from predators.
It’s NOT going to make you feel better about the system, though. The system is screwed up.
I am also not sure I agree with how they integrated psychopathic tendancies into child molestation.
Page 129, “As a result, the successful child molesters described in this book would obtain lower scores on the Psychopathy Checklist-Revised (Hare, 1991), with any assigned score only reflecting the narcissistic tendancies commonly noted among this population.”
They came to this conclusion, because all but one of the offenders in the book had any other criminal history.
Although the author correctly makes the point that there are many “successful” child molesters in society that have never been caught or convicted, she fails to operate on that same premise when it comes to personality disorders, like psychopathy.
There are plenty of psychopaths out there who are committing crimes. They just have never been caught or convicted of their crimes. Just like there are child molesters out there who have never been caught or convicted.
So, to say that child molesters who do NOT have a criminal record or multiple marraiges would score low on Hare’s checklist could possibly be inaccurate or misleading, in my opinion.
It’s still a very good book with good information.
Definitely worth reading.
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Rosa says:
Correction:
NONE of the offenders described in the book (EXCEPT one), had any other criminal history.
Therefore, they concluded that these offenders would not score high on Hare’s checklist, because they did not have a criminal record.
Therefore, they seem to be linking psychopathy with being caught & convicted of a crime.
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one_step_at_a_time says:
Right Rosa – no with HAVING COMMITTED CRIMES! It’s a flaw in the checklist, and could be at least partially addressed by talking to people who knew the person over their lifetimes. Usually someone knows SOMETHING.
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Rosa says:
Yes, that is also addressed in this book.
It is crucial to conduct a FULL INVESTIGATION of child molesters, to get the full scope of what they are doing, and how they are doing it.
This is done by interviewing family members, friends, co-workers, etc.
“Groomers” go to great lengths for “image management”, to make themselves look like good, upstanding citizens. That means manipulating those who are in contact with the children, in order to GAIN ACCESS to the children.
Unfortunately, there are not enough resources in law enforcement and social services to conduct such thorough investigations for every case that is brought forward. A lot of valuable information either gets lost or falls through the cracks. Not to mention the false allegations.
The system is broken.
That’s why we all need to do our own investigations and documentation, because no one else is going to do it for us, unfortunately.
After reading this book, I am seriously considering hiring a private investigator for a limited period of time, to find some information that I cannot do myself.
I believe in building my own case without the police or child protective services (at least for now), until I can come up with hard evidence and a solid case for what I want to accomplish….or until someone makes a really big mistake.
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one_step_at_a_time says:
Rosa – more and more PATIENCE makes sense in this mess. I was so reactive, living with all the drama and trauma of someone constantly ‘dyyyying’ and surgeries, and the blah blah of the story.
I was on chemical and hormonal overload ALL the time. And it felt somewhat ‘normal’ – oh THAT’S a sign of unfinished business if there ever was one for me.
so, now I see I have a number of challenges and ALL of the require great patience. I am by nature or nurture, an anxious person. And I opften ‘go with my gut’ on whatever is bothering me, ’cause i just have to limit the amount of things causing my anxiety to peak. But i have to unlearn this. i have to practice patience and non reactivity. and waiting. for the mistakes and the right resources. timing.
May 2010 be the year of the gift – of big mistakes!
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Stargazer says:
I probably have never mentioned it here, but the information might be useful so I’ll jump in. Of the many wonderful and not-so-wonderful men I’ve dated in my life, one of them was a child molester. I didn’t know at the time we were living together. I found out by accident. I found a psychiatrist note stashed away in his closet stating that at the age of 19 he had turned himself in for fondling two young children in the home of his friends. He received 4 years of psychiatric treatment for it. He was 31 when I met him.
During the year we were together, I knew there was something “not quite right” about him. He was on the narcissistic side and got his tempered flared easily but didn’t seem to know how to stand up for himself in obvious situations. He had a steady job as a bill collector and moonlighted as a very talented musician at night. He was very spontaneous and childlike in his demeanor and I probably had more fun with him than most guys I’d dated. But I knew I would never marry him because something was amiss. He seemed very self-centered, especially if he’d had a few drinks, but could alway apologize afterward. In some ways he was like a typical guy, so I thought.
His behaviors toward children: We didn’t have kids around much in our lives, so I only got to witness his behaviors around them twice. One time I was mentoring a 10-y.o. girl from the neighborhood who’d had a hard life. I invited her over with her mom’s permission to make cookies and hang out. He and I had just had an argument, but I set it aside to hang out with the girl. To my amazement, he was telling the girl our problems as if she were a trusted adult! It was really inappropriate, and I asked him to stop. I never invited the girl over again.
After I’d left and moved into my own condo, there was a young girl who hung out with her grandparents next door. He father had been shot to death, and her grandparents were ill and couldn’t spend much time with her. She loved to come over to visit. I would take her out for ice cream or to the park and we’d roll down the hill together. Or we’d dress up in some of my costume jewelry and vintage clothes and dance in the living room. One morning she dropped by in her nightgown, and my ex came over for some reason. He stared really closely at her nightgown and mentioned he liked the cartoon character on the front of it. It seemed odd and made me uncomfortable, though he himself dressed flamboyantly with cartoon characters on his tie-dyed outfits.
Boundaries with others: Several times we hung out with groups of other people. He seemed to hug people he didn’t know inappropriately or just act a little too familiar. He loved being the center of attention. I remember once we were sitting at the Botanic Gardens having lunch with a couple of women. He was stroking my arm in a very sensual way (as we often did when we were alone together). But he was doing that and looking this other woman in the eye. It was very strange and made me uncomfortable. It made me feel as though I couldn’t trust him around other women. We’d met at an open mike session in a bar and performed together with some of his band members. We were inseperable from that point on. The attraction was instantaneous. But even though I was instantly attracted, I remember in the weeks that followed, I was very put off by his loud, opinionated and boorish personality. I almost broke it off in the first few weeks. But after we passed that point, I tolerated his quirks for a year afterward. We mostly had a lot of fun together, and that’s what I remember the most. He actually supported me by allowing me to live in his house that he owned and trade painting/remodeling for rent. It was a good trade because I’d lived in a tiny ghetto apartment before.
Our sex life was completely normal (barring that he was a little on the selfish side, but I’d had selfish lovers before). We were very attracted to each other, and I was 3 years older than he was. We were both very sensual people, and this was a healthy part of our relationship.
When I found out about the girls he’d fondled when he was 19, we were still living together. I was a mess and had nowhere to go. I saw a counselor and asked if she thought he may have “outgrown” his problem. She said it was possible, that perhaps when he was 19, he had the emotional age of an 8 year old. But I just couldn’t trust him. I knew then I could never marry him.
He talked very loudly and had a voice that carried. It could be annoying, and my cats hid from him. Because of this, he wanted his own cat. So we adopted a tiny tabby just for him, but she was afraid of him too. One day he got angry with her and picked her up and threw her across the room onto my bed. That was the last straw for me. I had no money and nowhere to go. So I became a stripper for a short time, just until I could save up enough money to get out, which I did. The job bought me my freedom and was the first stepping stone to my financial stability.
We stayed in touch, and he visited occasionally but I never trusted or respected him after the revelation of his past foibles. He eventually asked me to marry him. I declined, and he moved up to Seattle where he was from. One day he called me and told me he’d been “accused” of fondling a 10 y.o. girl while her parents were in the other room. My heart sank. He wouldn’t even admit to me that he’d done it without a lot of cajoling. I lost contact with him after that. In spite of his obviously dark side, I still cared about him in a sisterly way. I didn’t understand. I was confused about how/why he could do this. And both times he did it in such a way that he’d get caught.
Many years later (about 12), I decided to google my exes just for the fun of it. When I googled his name, guess what came up? His official sex offender record. It said that under a lie detector test, he admitted to molesting 25 kids between certain years. One of those years was the year we’d lived together!!! I couldn’t believe it. I was so shocked. My first thought was, “when did he find the time?” He worked two jobs and was with me the rest of the time.
It took a little detective work but I tracked him down in Seattle. I wanted to ask him if he molested 25 kids while we were dating, and who they were, and when he found the time!!! He told me his attorney had instructed him not to talk about it. He told me he’d been in prison for a few years and then had to wear one of those electronic ankle bracelets and wasn’t allowed near children. He had gone through some treatment program for sex offenders and told me he had turned his life around. He admitted he’d also been abusing prescription meds and alcohol while we were together (I am so naive, I didn’t know). He told me he was “seeing someone” and had gone back to school for computers and was doing well. I hoped in my heart that this was true and that someone like this could be rehabilitated. The next day I received a very angry phone call from his WIFE asking me who I was and telling me never to contact her husband again. I couldn’t believe he didn’t even tell me he’d married! (it wasn’t as if I’d ever date him again anyway!). The whole thing was so bizarre, and I never spoke to him again, thankfully. I began to see the character of someone who was deceitful and self-serving, in spite of his sweetness.
My rose-colored glasses are so rosy that I still to this day cannot reconcile the quirky but lovable man I dated for a year with the child molesting monster he turned out to be. I still scratch my head when I think about it. He was not an unlovable person, just a little unbalanced perhaps. I did care for him very much at the time, but knew he was unsafe for me.
I’m writing this to tell you that all child molesters don’t seem like monsters. They seem like normal, quirky, multi-faceted people with their weaknesses and vulnerabilities. In my case, I knew something was wrong but couldn’t put my finger on it. Listen to your gut feeling. My gut feeling turned my relationship with him into something that served me more than damaged me. Can you imagine if I’d married him and had kids?
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OxDrover says:
I’m glad this thread was brought up again. I went through it and reread each and every post in it. Also, Rosa, glad you read the book, and your point is well taken about the PCL-R developed by Hare has (as I see it) a flaw in that it gives such a rating to convicted criminals, and you are right that probably 3 out of 4 psychopaths are actually free of criminal convictions, at least serious ones.
The different comments, and the memories they brought back of a few bloggers who are no longer here (or rarely so anyway) and looking at “where I was” last summer in terms of how I was doing in my own healing process and here I am tonight, mourning the “loss” of my trust in my son C (and having told him to leave my house because he lied to me). I picked a quote out about boundaries from one of my previous posts.
QUOTE OXDROVER:
Learning to set boundaries is a good thing. … anyone who DOES CARE FOR YOU will respect your boundaries, but people who don’t respect your boundaries are NOT people you want in your life.
QUOTE OXDROVER:
Any time you set a boundary though, you must be willing to FOLLOW through with it and realize that the relationship may not survive if the other person is not willing to respect your boundaries. But at the same time, why would you want a relationship with someone who won’t respect your boundaries?
I looked at these quotes from myself and looked at applying them to the sitaution last night and today with my son C. He is in most respects a good man, but I set the boundary about the lies, and he knew this and chose to viiolate that boundary, knowing full well, that it would destroy my trust in him. Without trust, there can’t be a relationship until and IF that trust is ever reestablished and in my opinion, it is not for the one whose trust has been betrayed to “beg” the other person to let them trust them, it is up to the offender to make the move and the ACTION to re-establish trust. I wish it were so, but I don’t expect it.
Star, LISTENING TO OUR GUTS is the BEST defenses we have, and setting boundaries is also the next thing, but we must DEFEND reasonable boundaries and enforce them, and if that makes the relationship falter or die, that is the chance we take. Too often we “give in” and allow people to violate our boundaries and do not defend them, and they keep on pushing until they over run us.
Listen to your gut, Chickie! It will protect you but you must listen and respect it. We are smarter and more intuitive than we give ourselves credit for sometimes (most times?) and if something doesn’t “seem right” I am not going to quit looking for what is going on (if the relationship is important enough to waste the time on) In my son’s case, it was, and I’m sorry that I found he had lied, actualy I’m sorry that he lied, but glad I found out he lied, as much as it hurt, I’d rather know the truth.
The truth will set you free, but first it will pith you off.
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one_step_at_a_time says:
Star – i have been thinking about the dominatrix thing – LOL! The spath could get free service. But someone would have to pull me off, cause I’d probably beat her to a pulp.
When I was 19 I moved thousands of miles from home. And within the first few months I answered an add for a photographer. He was young – don’t remember how old now.
He took some very nice draped and semi draped photos of me, which i got copies of. did two sessions with him. never saw him again. Fast forward 7 years and I see a report on the news about him. Child Molester. and photog. not a good combo. ugh!
(god, just had a flashback – TOTTALY forgot about the 2nd session – his brothers fiance was there and he was tkaing some photos of her for him and i seem to remember him trying to get us to do something….eek!)
Sometime within the year after I saw the newscast (and had unsuccessfully tried, though a friend to get the negatives of my photos) I saw him in a mall where i worked – walking with a pregnant woman and carrying a little girl on his shoulders. UGH!
I don;t think he recognized, I don’t know – I had gained a lot of weight – but i walked up to her and said, ‘ do you know who and what he is? AND SHE F*CKING SAID, ‘YES’!
OY VEY!
Lots of what you said about this guy reminds me of the ‘sweet boy’ character i loved – and the spath that pulled the strings of htat puppet is OBSESSED with child molestaion – she brought into her scam of me in a REALLY big way and in the scam of one of her other dupes.
there is something there…..
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ErinBrock says:
Oh my….
The S was a ‘grooomer’. He groomed everyone, but especially young kids…..
His ego depends on everyone liking him…..if a kid liked him, a parent loved him.
I watched most all parents ‘fall in love’ with the S. If we were at a dinner party, he would move to the kids…..get on the floor, roll around….pay all attention to the kids….
Of course, because the parents could give a rats ass about the kids at that point, and they were in a ‘home’ environment, it gave them a licence to trust the S…..Oh, he’s okay, he must be to be welcome in this home. So and so knows him….yada yada….
he was a built in ‘babysitter’, person to keep the kids occupied so they don’t bug the parents…..he would sit with kids on his lap during dinner, feeding them…..
I was watching something on TV the other day, about a mother feeding her baby in a high chair……and it jolted a memory…..our first born in a high chair…..and him CHEWING THE FOOD and balling it up in his fingers and finger feeding the baby…..
He would CHEW the food for our child…..WTF????
The last few years with us…..I referred to him as the ‘food cop’ . He watched everyone eat their dinner….and all the kids have different styles, but they are all good eaters….
One child eats everything separately…..like….all the vegies at once, then the meat, then the starch…..he doesn’t mix them up.
So inevitable the last ‘portion’ whatever that may be….the food cop would say…..DON”T YA LIKE THE xxxx ……. or ….Arn’t ya gonna eat the xxxx. The kid would look up ans say, i’m not done…..
He ‘grew’ into doing this to everyone…..dinner guests and all.
How embarrasing……
I still am haunted by the letters I found in his desk, after he moved out.
They were from a 11-12 year old girl, when he was coaching little league…..one boys kid sister…..about 8 years ago.
They were very graphic about calling him his ‘lover’, had ‘pet names’, referred to him as her ‘fiance’ etc…..let’s make your wife jelouse…..I just want you to hold me…..
But the weirdest thing to me was….WHY DID HE KEEP THEM?
He showed me one, after practice one day…..years ago….I said to him, you need to talk to the girl father and DO NOT encourage this sort of behavior….it’s inappropriate.
This was not the reaction he was looking for….I think he wanted me to be jelouse???? ARE YOU KIDDING? She’s a baby……
To some extent it’s natural for a young girl to have a ‘crush’ on a ‘coach’……but the way these letters read, the names she used for him…..there was way too much familiarity in them….and the fact he kept them…..
It’s not like he kept cards or letters from anyone else….he wasn’t centimental (are any of them?)…..and they were not in a place that they had ‘gotten lost’ deep in the drawer.
AND He left them when he moved out?
For me to ‘find’?????
What a freak!!!!!
Then to be told he was selling cocain to 13 year old girls from my rental cabin…..the cabin was a vacation rental, so didn’t have a full time occupant. What a perfect place to sell dope from…..and rendesvous with little girls…..and all without me knowing!!!
THEN…..to realize I WAS 13 when I met him!!!!
Okay…..picture painted…..I get it now!
He groomed me…..he even told me he was going to ‘mold’ me into what he wanted……
I was so enamored at 13 by this statement…..it was my idea of LOVE!!!!
Holy shit!
RED FLAGS….and GUT!!!
GO WITH IT!!!!
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Genevieve79 says:
I just realised a longtime male friend of mine is an N and was a predator from day one. A man in his 30s, after grooming me at 16, making me feel special to him and then testing me with bad behaviour to see if I was a little girl who would play by the rules or not. I was sensible and did so he discarded me mercilessly and then found a little girl of 16 who was more rebellious,tarty & what he was looking for leaving me devastated that this wonderful person had turned on me. I’d have expected respect from him you see…. Nothing ever actually happened – it was all emotional grooming.
Fast forward to now, I myself am in my early 30s and, still manipulated by that early grooming and persona he presented to me, I thought it was just a good friendship that had lost its way so I got back in touch, but after months of crazymaking and gaslighting, in short a friendship that caused me alot of stress and was not healthy, he has discarded me completely, believing me to be a problem in HIS life!
I’m done…..I’m upset…..but I’m done….. He actually believes I’m in love with him – pot kettle? He set up this unhealthy dynamic in the first place. It’s amazing what these crazy folk drive sane rational ones to do. The more they dangle us and pull away the more a healthy person who believes in resolving issues/communication will try to be in touch, moreso than usual, coming across intensely in their understandable distress. All the time receiving no communication or exlpanation as to where they stand but just lef tto ‘figure it out’. Then the N or S/P accuses them practically of harassment and tells them never to contact them again. They create the narcissistic supply situation (haha I’m going to keep you dangling, desperate, treat you like you’re inferior to me and make you look like a stalker) and then blame the victim ‘She just wouldn’t stop contacting me!’ Everything I did then and recently he believed was about him eg becoming friends with people he knew would be so I could get close to him and he was paranoid and envious to extremes, simultaneously elevating me and then devaluing me. It chills me to the bone to think that he was so good a manipulator when I was 16 it influenced my behaviour as a grown woman in her 30s.
I feel free and happy that he is now out of my life for good but I also keep blaming myself. The pattern was there of him being a sexual predator and his personality is highly narcissistic, with that boyish childlike aspect to it so many have mentioned. He’s also extremely accomplished, intelligent, high achieving and has that strange magnetic charismatic quality about him even though he is not exceptionally beautiful looking. He’s pretty amazing… Demonic almost….
Yet somehow there is a part of me that thinks I’m just denying my own guilt in the situation and I deserve the way he has discarded me. I feel inferior, ugly and like I have a sad worthless life compared to him and his terrific one (not true in reality, I’m quite accomplished myself!) All the evidence is pointing towards me having dealt with a sexual predator and N, even other people think the same, but I still have a tiny part of me that beats on me and says ‘Come on, you know you are a crazy woman and he was right to get rid of you’
Anyone else felt like this despite overwhelming logical evidence to the contrary?
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OxDrover says:
Dear Genevieve,
AH, YES!@!!!! But get over the kicking yourself about it….it is a blessing from God when they discard us and don’t try to come back.
You’ve had your time to feel guilty, now I am declaring it OVER! Laugh! Seriously though, it does take some time, but we need to use a combination of logic and emotion to get rid of those feelings.
RECOGNIZING them is the FIRST STEP—now you can take the rest of the steps necessary! You are on your way, he is still what he is—-NOTHING IMPORTANT! (((Hugs))))
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one_step_at_a_time says:
hi all – i think i have made some real progress reclaiming my head space in the last few weeks. i see it especially in the last few days, when i have gone hours at work with real concentration and few spath thoughts.
now the other side of this is that i am seeing the affects of the spath. sigh. i don’t trust people or myself.
and i am still not ‘all there’. what part of that is ptsd and what part is the cognitive damage i can’t tell. i feel overwhelmed 90% of the time with this new job – not ‘swamped’, but fearing that i will mess it up big time. today i realize that i have messed something up and i don’t know if i can fix it. this week there was some serious IT problems that cost me 3 days and then we had a crisis related to something beyond my control, but completely affecting my timelines. i am tired and brain weary. don’t have the extra to push. on the bright side – such an odd phrase in this situaion – i talked to one of the board members, and told her that their expectations are out of line to what the organizational capacity is. so, one step taking charge in this way is positive. i have been doing this since i started and i do see that there is some change. they have changed my reporting structure…..
thing is…i can’t get out from behind the 8 ball yet. and i don’t have the mind power to ‘spin’ it or even ‘handle’ the situation. god, i am just whipped.
i met with a business mentor who i haven’t talke dwith in awhile. i really liked this guy. only known him about 9 months. he used to be a financial planner. i asked to meet with mhim to go over my finances, etc. and two things happened that were difficult. the first is he wanted me to do some visioning about ’10 years down the road’…for a person who hasn’t been able to see the next day for over a year, it was very painful and brought up a lot of anxiety. a LOT of anxiety. good thing – seemed to work through it a bit. came out of it with some value – but am completely exhausted. have been laying here for 3 hours just stunned. the other thing that was really mind blowing was that he kept looking at my chest. oh fer f*** sake. the last time i saw him he sat kinda close to me and i remember marking his behaviour in my mind as rather odd. i had always felt comfortable with him, but the last two times he sat rather close…the first time it seemed fine…the 2nd time a bit odd, and today i was so uncomfortable, my brain was screaming. i collapsed inward into myself…man, i haven’t been that uncomfortable in…well, i don’t know…decades? My director at work stares at my legs at times. it’s really weird. i actually get the idea he doesn’t know what he is doing…i talk with my hands and he stares at them too. i had thought maybe he is just easily distracted by movement…but the next time he does it i am going to stare hard at him. i thought this other guy was a good guy. today i felt physically cornered and he didn’t read any of my body language that said i was uncomfortable. none of it. i am quite self-conscious of my curves…not used to having any. don’t think anyone has ‘stared’ at my boobs in 30 years. if i had had a business jacket with me i would have put it on immediately. predator? dunno. weirded out and boundary crossed? definitely.
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Genevieve79 says:
Thank you so much Oxy! I realised overnight that he was just as horrid to me in the beginning as he has been now. Back when I was 16, right at the point he decided to discard me, before I had done anything that could be considered making a fool of myself/shameful, I recalled how he was exhibiting the same nasty behaviours he has been doing since we got back in touch recently. If I wasn’t guilty of anything then and he still behaved like that, how could I be guilty now? And there I found my healing! xxxxxx
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kim frederick says:
Genaveive, None of it was your fault…not the initial grooming and not the initial discard, not the last disgard….I’m not sure why you cantacted him, but I’m assuming it was something that you needed to do in order to get closure. You were 16 years old, got sucked into something and dumped, cruelly, and you were probably stymied about what had happened.
Most of these creeps have a tremendous fear of grown women with a sense of self. They find them very threatening…They need the absolute adulation of a pliant, and niave young girl who looks up to them. That’s how they get their N supply.
Now, in your thirtys you are too much for him. Too wise, too competant…that will never do! Trust me, he’ll go out and find another, on and on ad infinitum. It’s just what they do.
Quit doubting yourself in this!!! Not your fault. He was inferior to you in every way, and he’s a pig to boot.
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Denise Guiney says:
Genevieve,
I have seen this done to the woman after me. Lead her on, promise her everything make her feel special, use her as a financial crutch, distract her at work then torture her by disappearing on her and finally accuse her of stalking. Mean Mean Mean. Then tried to tell her he and I were back together, in love and going to be married (he did not ask me!) Even put up photos of me on his Facebook (he never had them up there before). Total lack of conscience led him to think I would actually buy this story and not work out what he did to this woman. Nothing is more gross than seeing someones attempts to use you to flick off someone else they have abused.
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Ox Drover says:
I thought there was an article about this creep, but can’t find it if there is, so this is as good a place as any to comment about him.
This jerk is the perverts pervert! He wrote and sold this “how to” book for perverts and child molester and Florida prosecutors Bought one over the mail/internet and so they prosecuted him though he lived in another state. They caught hell for doing so though, but personally I think they did okay by prosecuting him.
(doesn’t HE LOOK LIKE THE KIND OF GUY WHO COULD ONLY GET A CHILD FOR A SEX PARTNER???) CREEPY!!!!! but anyway, I was really disappointed when I read today that he only got probation.
http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/.....index.html
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