Co-parenting with a sociopath
PDF Lovefraud recently received the following e-mail from a reader who we’ll call Carla:
Can you help me with co-parenting with a sociopath? Divorced three months ago, after a two-year fight for my rights. He is not complying as you know.
I am going crazy with the way he only shows his wonderful, smooth qualities to the children. I have three boys. I can’t stand sending them on weekends to a man who never calls them for two weeks and then lavishes them with charm and gifts. It makes me sick that I am struggling because he has not released even one of 26 accounts to me as decreed in the divorce settlement. He pays my bills and deducts them from the alimony. He follows the agreement under his own conditions and it confuses the attorneys. He won’t discuss the children with me or offer any assistance to them as a father. He is 100 percent focused on his new victim, his girlfriend, a new young, widow. Spending all the money he hid on her. But the kids have “buddy” to whisk them from one expensive activity to another while I am struggling to pay the bills.
I have greater anxiety now than when we were married. He openly emotionally abuses me. Before it was more covert and I got immune to the invalidation and blame. NOW I am discarded since I chose not to play by his rules of cheating, drugs, gambling, lying, withholding sex. He isn’t nice to me at all. Cruel. It was easier being married. He did all these things and he kept me blinded by being secretive and giving me a high-income surgeon’s wife lifestyle. I know the secrets now along with my attorney but he looks perfect in the community.
I miss the financial security and vacations. Now someone else shares those things with him and all I did was give him three beautiful children to brag about and add to his narcissism.
I say terrible things about him to the two older children, ages 6 and 13. I tell them how he is not following the agreement, lying and spending money on drugs and women.
Is so frustrating. I see what is real but no one else does. I am afraid my children are going to prefer him (and his girlfriend) because he is so charming and generous and I know he is pathological and I can’t give them the expensive gifts and ultra stimulating activities.
How do you deal with the frustration that you are the only person who knows someone is a sociopath? I had to live 15 years with him to figure it out and go through four therapists until the last one nailed him as anti-social/schizoid personality disordered. Then I validated her “diagnosis” with Lovefraud. He has all the signs with a very high IQ and status of a medical professional to hide behind. Will anyone else ever figure it out? I don’t believe that what comes around goes around when it comes to a sociopath as intellectually clever as my ex-husband. I do have a few very perspective people who picked up on it. I don’t think my kids will ever see it and I think he will destroy me even post-divorce. Why is he so relentless? He has his freedom and his money. Why not leave me alone? Is it because I get one-third of his income in alimony?
After the divorce
Probably the most shocking thing about divorcing a sociopath is that even when it’s over, it’s not over. The attorneys have argued, the court has ruled, this is how it’s going to be—and it’s not. The sociopath doesn’t comply, twists things the way he or she wants them, uses children against the other parent, and no one seems to care.
This leaves the non-sociopathic partner—like Carla—angry with the sociopath, frustrated that he’s getting away with his lies and manipulation, and upset that he won’t do what he’s supposed to do, baffled that no one else sees the truth—all while still mourning the life she thought she had. Carla wants her ex to pay her what he’s supposed to and be a dad to their children. He’s not doing either, so she wants other people to know that behind his charming, successful veneer, he’s vile.
It’s a toxic brew of emotions. But the emotions will never affect the sociopath. They will only affect Carla, and possibly her children.
It seems to me that Carla needs to be able to separate what’s going on into four categories: financial considerations, the children, dealing with the ex and her emotional recovery.
Financial considerations
First of all, Carla needs to get her financial situation straightened out. If her ex is supposed to give her 26 accounts, she needs to get that enforced—soon, before the accounts are empty. I hope her attorneys put a time limit on when these accounts are supposed to be turned over, and specified exactly how much money she is supposed to receive. If not, she is in trouble.
Carla cannot allow her ex-husband to pay her bills. By letting him do this, she is allowing him to control her. He is deducting the money from her alimony? He is probably exaggerating the amount of the bills just to pay her less. Plus, he may decide to stop paying the bills, and she would never know it—until the cable service or electric is turned off. Carla must demand that she receive the full alimony, then get her bills in her own name.
Carla did not mention a house and mortgage. If the sociopath’s name is on the house or mortgage, that is a disaster waiting to happen. He may stop paying the mortgage and allow the house to slip into foreclosure. He wouldn’t care, but Carla would have no place to live.
The children
Carla complained that her ex won’t discuss the children with her and won’t offer any assistance as a father. He doesn’t call them during the week and only wants to play with them on his weekends. I’d recommend that Carla use this to her advantage.
Here is the bottom line: Sociopaths are terrible parents. At best, they view children as prized possession. At worst, they actively try to corrupt the children. Therefore, the less interaction a sociopath has with his or her children, the better.
Carla should actually be grateful that her ex is staying out of their children’s lives as much as he is. She should use her time with the children to shower them with love, nurture them and provide them with healthy guidance. None of that will happen when the boys are with their father. The kids will eventually sense that there is no real bond with the father. As time goes on, they may also witness him moving from girlfriend to girlfriend, and eventually start rolling their eyes at yet another one.
Carla needs to be their rock of stability. She also needs to stop badmouthing the father—even if he deserves it. This is important for two reasons. First is the emotional health of the children—they should not feel in the middle of her issues with the ex. Second, she does not want to give her ex the ammunition to come after her with a parental alienation lawsuit, in which she could lose custody of the boys.
Her best plan of action is the stay neutral about the father. One mother’s standard response whenever her children brought home news of the ex was a noncommittal, “That’s nice.”
Kids are smart. Sooner or later, they will realize that the sociopath cares only about himself.
Dealing with the ex
Carla asks, “Why is he so relentless? Why not leave me alone?”
Divorcing a sociopath is not like divorcing a relatively healthy person that you’ve just grown away from. In a normal divorce, mommy and daddy don’t want to be together anymore, but they can cooperate for the sake of the kids. This is not going to happen with a sociopath.
Sociopaths only want three things: Power, control and sex. Carla and the surgeon have divorced, but that doesn’t mean he has given up his desire for power and control.
Carla says her ex-husband is openly abusing her. She must eliminate his opportunities to do this and go No Contact with this man as much as possible. I don’t know if she is allowing him into her home, but she shouldn’t. The child exchange should be arranged to minimize interaction. Any communications regarding the children should be conducted via e-mail. Phone conversations give him opportunities to abuse her.
The key is for Carla to be strictly business. She must recognize that the sociopath will not play nice. He will do everything possible to avoid paying her. He will continue to manipulate her through the children. She must learn not to react when he baits her. She must learn to be calm and collected, yet make him toe the line on his court-ordered obligations.
Emotional recovery
All of this is pretty raw for Carla right now—the divorce was only three months ago. She is outraged. She is frustrated. Carla misses the status, money, vacations and cozy lifestyle of a surgeon’s wife. She is justifiably angry that he cheated and hid money, and probably still reeling from being devalued and discarded.
Realizing that she’s been in a relationship with a sociopath has probably rocked Carla to the core. Nothing was real. Everything was a lie. And plenty of people in the community still believe the lie. This is a massive shock, and it takes time to come to terms with the magnitude of the deception.
Recovery is a process, and there is a lot of information here on the Lovefraud blog that may help Carla:
- She must realize that the ex is a sociopath, and this is the way he lives his life. Nothing she did or didn’t do would make any difference.
- She must realize that she was targeted, probably because of her good qualities.
- She must allow herself to feel her anger, disappointment, grief and even hatred—and then let it all go.
This will take time, and will probably come in waves—a wave of emotion, followed by a wave of calm. Eventually the emotional periods will be shorter, the calm periods will be longer.
Carla is in for many years of aggravation with this man. She needs to get to a point of equanimity, where his antics no longer affect her. When she gets there, no matter what the guy does, Carla wins.
written by Donna Andersen • Permalink •
banana says:
My family also whole heartedly believes he is a predator.
I am disappointed in MIL cuz she told me for years how manipulative my STBXP/S is, she said he’s a liar a user. Our stories of what happened when I wasn’t around never lined up.
She’d say how he “yelled” at her and I would defend him…He never raised his voice around me.
She, up until he was served was on my side. Was always there throughout the A while he was living with OW.
In the day he was served she told me he said she’d never see her grandson again. Funny because he has always told me she was not a fit parent. Blamed her for how awful his life was and did not want her negativity in our son’s life.
He promised me only months ago that she would not be our son’s childcare provider any longer.
It’s sad because when the dust settles she may only see our son when STBXP/S need her. he hates her.
Where as if she were filing affidavits for ME I would ensure she would see her grandson.
(Report abusive comment)
PInow says:
Endthepain,
I hope you are doing well. You have not posted for awhile and some of us (myself included) worry about you and how things turned out for you in the courts. I hope you are OK and reading these comments. A lot of things have happened since you’ve last posted. We are hoping to hear from you.
Good luck!
(Report abusive comment)
ANewLily says:
Spirit40 says: “…Got an A- and a B+ on my last two papers.”
You wrote this on Saturday, 11 July 2009 @ 1:10pm and I just now saw it. Congratulations! This is superb news.
How are things going now? I hope even better than you could have expected.
What an accomplishment this was considering the stress you were under. Wow. You are awesome!
(Report abusive comment)
ANewLily says:
Endthepain, where are you? Like PInow, I am very eager to know how court turned out last Thursday. And how we can support you if it did not.
I hope you are just taking a temporary breather and that you will come back to post with renewed vigor.
Prayers and blessings to you!
(Report abusive comment)
ANewLily says:
Or was the court date last Tuesday? Gee, after yesterday, I am all confused. I don’t even know what day it is today.
Oh, yes, it is Friday, I had a doctor appointment this morning. Duh!
(Report abusive comment)
Kimmy says:
Can somebody help me…I am having trouble setting boundaries with my ex. No, I am not back together with him. We have been through court battles in regards to custody of our four year old son, who is medically fragile, and he had visitation suspended for a few months last year. Back to court and he started having visits, supervised by me, once a month. After showing up to several visits and doctor appointments I offered him over night, I was doing this because of my son’s connection with him, not the other way around. Then he started his old patterns, not showing, having numerous excuses, I let him get away with it once and again allowed overnights, but then he missed a special medical appointment for my son. I told him no more overnights, that we were going back to the court ordered visits, day visits Saturdays 10-3 and that he has to let me know two weeks in advance (per court order and my request) that he will be here. He did not call on Sat. or Sun, but Monday night for a visit two weeks from last Saturday. I know he is pushing the envelope, because his ex gfriend told me he used to wait until the last minute to call me.
Well, I emailed him and told him no visit, that he needs, as stated before let me know two weeks in advance.
Now I am scared, scared of his response. I just need to be strong, I know he is a drunk a gambler and continues to be abusive to other woman…… I am scared of what he will tell my son. I am scared he will show up, but have nothing (evidence wise) to present to the court to get another Restraining Order.
I hope I have done the right thing, sticking to making him call two weeks and not allowing him to waver.
I just need to know I am doing the right thing.
(Report abusive comment)
OxDrover says:
Dear Kimmy,
Every person on here that I know of advocates STICKING TO THE ABSOLUTE LETTER OF THE WRITTEN COURT ORDERS, never once vary from that. So sticking to the 10-3 supervised visits and two weeks notice in advance is the way to go if that is what is in the court orders.
IF YOU GIVE THEM AN INCH THEY WILL TAKE TEN MILES! They will inconvenience you as much as possible etc.
I think you realize by now that your X does not give a rat’s behind for your son, and as far as your son at this age needing him, your child will be better off I think without that evil influence in his life. Don’t believe a whining word your X says first off, about how he “loves” his son….it is a LIE. Psychopaths are not capable of love.
Don’t let him plug into your “guilt” or uncertainty, hang tough for your son’s sake. Raising any child by yourself is difficult, raising one that is medically unstable is another weight on top of raising any baby, so hang in there.
I think your e mail to him is the best way to communicate as you can SAVE the e mails (which are date stamped) to show that YOU are living up to the letter of the law. I advise to keep them SHORT, to the point, and don’t ever show anger etc. in the e mails. Just short and sweet, an dpiont out that the agreement is xyz. YOU CAN DO IT!!! (((hugs))))
ps–don’t worry about what might happen in the future, don’t brinig worry for tomorrow into today. Whatever he tells your son, you can counter. If he visits seldom especially, and for limited times, etc.
Would it be possible when he is there for you to be in the other room and still monitor the visit, so you don’t have to spend time with your X, OR better yet, is there someone else who could supervise the visit, so that you don’t have to have contact with him at all? A lot of times they use visitation as an excuse to get to you. If your son must have you there, maybe you could get someone to stay in the ROOM with your X and the baby, but you be in another room close by to be called if necessary.
If you can LIMIT THE AMOUNT OF TIME YOU have to spend with the jerk, I think that would be a good start. He doesn’t care about coming to spend time with a baby, it is spending time with YOU that I think he wants. Either to try to hook you back, or just to be nasty to you. ((((hugs)))) cut that “reward” off if you can.
(Report abusive comment)
Kimmy says:
Thank you so much OxDrover. I left my x almost four years ago, with each step, with each boundary I put up, I get stronger. I am taking your advice and at a safe pace am going to return to the court ordered visitation, I am never offering him anything again as I did when I offered him to spend more time with our son.
It is everything at his convenience, sadly.
Again, thank you.
(Report abusive comment)
OxDrover says:
Dear Kimmy, glad you are learning to set boundaries, and with the Ps they will NOT respect them ever, though they may pretend to, they are always trying to push them, put a foot over. If you stick to the LETTER of the “law” they will still push, but if you hold firm they may or may not even keep on visiting. As LITTLE contact as you can manage I would think the best, and as he will use the excuse of seeing your son to give you grief, if you can arrange to have him NOT see you (if this is possible) at all, he will get bored quickly with visiting his son and maybe you will be done with him for long stretches at least. Good luck.
Just keep in mind anyhting you try to do for him to be “nice” will back fire on you! LOL
(Report abusive comment)
Kimmy says:
Is it odd to feel guilt when the x calls? He will call maybe twice a week (he is supposed to call mon. and weds., but he is not consistent with this). When I listen to his messages to our son saying “this is dad, just calling to say I love you.” It is almost painful, for two reasons: 1. I wish my son had a father to love the way a sane persons does & 2. I wish my x was able to truely love our son I do. When he does talk with our son, they are on speaker phone and the conversations are usually short and appropriate. I have offered him to call whenever to talk with our son, even to call everynight to say good night and I love you. This to did not take place.
I am sure he will respond harshly, to say the least, to my email telling him no to the visit. And if he calls, and is not wanting to speak with Blair, I am going to ask him to correspond with me via email unless it is an emergency about our son.
And, it does not matter if I am nice, he views me as the fu@$*&% Bi%&# no matter what. He is from a very small town and I am amazed at what I hear he says about me, especially when I thought things were going to well.
thank you so much for your time and help
(Report abusive comment)
OxDrover says:
Dear Kimmy,
Of course you wish your son had a real father, and it hurts that your child doesn’t have what you know would mean the world to him and to you, but unfortunately, he doesn’t.
HOWEVER–it is not your fault he does not have a father who loves him. That is his father’s responsibility and he is not fulfilling it and won’t. Again, not your responsibility or your “fault.”
I think it is common for parents who love their children and want the best for them to feel “guilty” when say we would like to send them to college, or aprivate school, or whatever that would be nice for them, but we can’t afford it. Or for some reason the thing we desire for our child is out of reach. BUT it is not something that you can control.
Many children do well with one parent, or NO parents, we just do the BEST we can and love them, and let God take care of the rest.
Your X, ikn my opinion, doesn’t call regularly or on the schedule because he knows it upsets YOU (he could care less about your/his son).
Setting boundaries about when he can and should call, then keeping records (you may need them in court some day) keeping ALL copies of e mails or other conversations, and LIMITing any conversation that is not strictly about your son, or to your son to just the LEAST AMOUNT YOU CAN.
Don’t discuss his “bad or inconsistent” behavior with him or “call him” on it, but flatly and unemotionally set the boundaries. “John, you may call Timmy between 5 and 7 p.m. any day you wish (or wednesdays and Fridays etc) and talk to him on speaker phone. If he ever says anything inappropriate, record all conversations after thatwould be my advice.
“Please EMAIL ME two weeks in advance for visitation which will be on Sundays from 3 to 6″ etc.
If he doesn’t follow these directions, I wouldn’t nag him about NOT following them, but just say in response, (in an e mail)
Please email me two weeks in advance for visitation which will be on sundays from 3 to 6. (i.e. just REPEAT the boundary but not make any reference to him not following it.)
He will probably rage about this, but let him rage is my suggestion, just respond FLAT LINE and no emotion. No matter how upset you are or what you woujld like to tell him! LOL
As f ar as your son is concerned if he expresses “I wish my daddy would call/come see me etc” I would just validate his feelings, “Yes, Timmy, I know you wish your daddy would call/come.” Neutral response, not criticizing your X at all, just validating your son’s feelings. He can then draw his own conclusions from the BEHAVIOR of your X—not calling etc. and you don’t get the slap for saying “mean” things about his father which he might try to defend.
It is so difficult raising a child alone, and especially if your X is a PPD, but you seem to have a great head on your shoulders. Hang in there, and keep moving one step at a time. Just love your son and give him the best you can do, and don’t absorb the guilt for your X;’s lack. that’s his cross to bear, not yours. (((hugs))) and my prayers for you.
(Report abusive comment)
3yrsurvivor says:
This is soooo scary reading these stories…..I thought I was crazy!!! I was swept off my feet by a lying, cheating, manipulative…and did I mention charming and successful sociopath? He systematically infiltrated my life, destroyed my family, ruined me financially, raped me, physically attacked me (sprayed me with pepper spray and fought my 13 year old son and sprayed him with pepper spray, so he could kidnapped the baby), and has kept me in court for three years, and still no outcome! He used to emotionally beat me down, and when he was angry with me he would physically abuse my children. After 2 years and a baby under 1 I left him. To date he is still thinking of ways to make my life miserable. I have protective orders to keep him away, then the courts turned around and gave him visitation…unsupervised! When he attacked me I hadn’t heard from him for a few months, and then one morning the children and I were leaving for school and he came out of nowhere and snatched the baby and fought my son. He fought me too. The scariest part was that throughout the entire struggle he did not say a word. He was there for one reason.
He took hundreds of thousands of dollars from elderly women, lied about his name…I found out he had several aliases, couldn’t keep a position but was so brilliant and charming found a job making 6 figures within a few months.
He has now begun harassing me again because he is getting ready to go to court in November for the assault earlier this year. I have resorted to No contact, and after realizing who and what he truly is……I am concerned for the safety of myself and my family. Any suggestions on strategies to protect us?
(Report abusive comment)
skylar says:
3yr, Sorry to welcome you here tonight. You are in good hands and you aren’t crazy, he is.
first thing to do is work on becoming emotionless. of course you feel emotion but you must come across as being very boring and uninteresting. NO EMOTIONAL reactions. This is the only thing that works for getting them to lose interest. It will be hard because of your children. Teach your boy this trick. Try to get evidence whenever there are documents.
He attacks you for your emotions, that is what he feeds on. we call them vampires. Read the book “why is it always about you” and “the sociopath next door” They will explain what you need to understand, and they are easy reads, actually enteraining. But you will find that when you go to the library, they will ALL BE CHECKED OUT! There seems to be an upsurge in interest on narcissism lately. Put your name on the waiting list and then search for other books on narcissism that are in stock. They will help you gain perspective.
(Report abusive comment)
shabbychic says:
3yrsurvivor, jeez, I can’t believe they gave him unsupervised visitation!!!!! If the NC doesn’t help, speak to your attorney and your local police department. Document everything!!! Read as much as you can here, there are a lot of people on this site that have been through what you are going through. Skyler’s boring stragegy is very good!!
(Report abusive comment)
ErinBrockovich says:
3Yrs:
You must be vigilant, tenacious and persevere!
Do NOT GIVE UP!
I just found out today there are Domestic violence advocates in each ‘entity’…..of the local govmnt. offices
We as DV victims must ask….make this a first question in contcating the agencies……DO YOU HAVE AN ADVOACATE?
I am sure they may be different in all county’s and states….but I was unaware of all of them…..
THEY ARE NOT THE SAME ADVOCATES!!!! BUT THEY WILL ALL FIGHT FOR YOU!
Okay, the rundown….
The local police have a DV ADVOCATE
The District Attorneys Office has their own DV ADV.
The Sheriffs Dept. has a DV ADVOCATE
The family courts has their own DV ADVOCATE
The Dept. of PUBLIC SAFETY has a DV Adv.
The Sheltors have their own DV ADV
Womans services has thier own DV ADV.
CONTACT THEM ALL…..and be persistant…..I have been told by all of them….the squeaky wheel scenario…..
DO NOT GREASE THE SQUEAK!!!! LET YOURSELF BE HEARD!!!
I am sorry for your battle, your pain and I want you to know…..your welcome here!
Keep strength, keep YOU!
XXOO
EB
(Report abusive comment)
3yrsurvivor says:
I appreciate everyone’s comments and support. Currently my attorney is through a Domestic Violence Organization so I am sure they have some resources. It just seems like the people I talk to don’t really understand the weight of the situation. I do have the local PD keeping an eye out…a cop lives down the street. But the calls are getting weirder and weirder. I am concerned that he is going to do something….I am contacting my attorney and parent Coordinator who just gushes about how much he loves his son. I know the baby is a pawn to get to me. I have also passed a few articles on to an elderly woman whom he has exploited for years. She is very kind and well educated (a school principal)! I hope that she will have the strength to break the ties like I did. I just packed my bags and disappeared one day because I knew that was the only way I was going to be able to break the ties. i had no idea at that time about sociopathology, I just knew that he was a cruel and heartless person who used to force me to execute his dirty work and treated my children like trash and said it was because he loved us. I am staying strong especially for my children. They have been affected the most. We are all in therapy and hopefully they will have the opportunity to heal so that they will live productive lives. Thank you all and god bless.
(Report abusive comment)
banana says:
So, I seem to be in position to get much of what I hoped for in our divorce/custody settlement, but I still have %50 legal custody which means we have to make descisions together.
I have agreed to some things I was not going to agree to…things he did just because he could ie: refusing to drop off my son at my apt. as usual. Turns out picking him up on my way towork, as long as he is dressed and his lunch is packed, is easier for me.
My worry is that when he sees that he’s not getting to me, he will find another way to upset me.
MY QUESTION IS: Should I continue to act like this bothers me, so he doesn’t find a new way to bother me?
Thanks
(Report abusive comment)
OxDrover says:
Dear Banana,
That is a good question! Yea, it might work. YOU are starting to THINK now and ACT, rather than RE-act, which is GOOD!!!
The thing is that you MUST NOT let him “push your buttons” and when he tries, think of it as he is a “fisherman” and he is throwing “lures” in front of you to get you to snap them up, but keep in mind THERE IS ALWAYS A HOOK IN THERE. ALWAYS!
So when you feel yourself getting angry, frustrated, etc.REMIND YOURSELF (instead of RE-acting) HE IS TRYING TO UPSET ME WITH HIS “LURE” and I WILL *NOT* LET IT WORK. I will NOT grab that HOOK!!!
It won’t change him TRYING, he will always try, but unless it is something LILFE THREATENING, do NOT re-act but ACT instead. Sometimes ACTING may be pretending to be angry, or pretending to be cooperative with him, but whatever your ACTION is, it isn’t hooked into your anger, rage, etc. but is a DELIBERATE ACTION, not a RE-action.
RE-actions are LETTING HIM HAVE CONTROL. ACTIONS are YOU are in control of YOU. (you will never be in control of him, unless you can get him to RE-act) If any of that makes any sense.
Sometimes ACTION may actually mean you LET HIM THINK he “won” (and sometimes it is hard for us to “let them win”) but when you do that, YOU are actually the one in CONTROL.
The further you can keep your emotions away from your ACTIONS the better off you will be, because he has LOTS OF PRACTICE in pushing your buttons and will keep on trying to do so, because THAT IS WHERE HE GETS HIS ‘REWARDS.”
Hang in there Banana, if he thinks he is “winning” he may be satisfied. Hopefully, he will get bored and go away to another victim and leave you alone. Good luck ((((hugs))) and God bless you and your baby!
(Report abusive comment)
skylar says:
My first impulse was to say “yes”. banana, pretend it bothers you. But then I thought about it and they thrive on emotion. it might encourage more crap.
So I’ve changed my opinion, I say don’t show any emotion. Be a boring gray rock. If he notices, tell him you are on prozac and can’t feel any emotion anymore. Then there will be no point in further harrassment.
(Report abusive comment)
banana says:
PS: He brought his mistress and my son to the settlement. I decided not to meet him face-to-face.
So the three of them were in a room with a window and I was in the waiting room.
So I called my dad. S hasn’t seen my dad since the day he left me for OW.
(Report abusive comment)
PrincessKK says:
If someone could please adviced me at this time, I am dealing with a sociopath, we have a child together, but he has never been diagnosed as a sociopath, after reading up on things and he fits the criteria. I had wonder why he was talking and doing the things he does to be his age, he lies about every single thing and I remember this particular time he said he wish the baby would have died, he do not care about the baby anyways, but he had filed for joint custody and he has never been apart of the child life, he do not provide any financial support, he do not even ask how the child is doing, it is all about him and everyone else, we have been to court severals times but he do not follow nor care, he comes up to me one time about seeing the child, he needed my help, thought I would save him, he speaks of me so badly as if he has forgotten I am the child mother, the one doing it all and he does nothing but he just runs from one person to another and I do not want my baby explode to this type of lifestyle. He steals, sell drugs etc. How is this good to be apart of a child life. Well, the paper he had filed was the wrong paper and he had certain amount of time to filed it and he did not, he was only trying to scare me, he do not want to be in the child life but tell everyone its impossible due to me, which is a lie, told the Judge I will not let him see the child, he has never asked nor knock on the door. No one do not see through is lies and he is very manipulator, he is evil, nasty individual. I do not know what else to do at this time, he wants to come seek and destroy my baby life right now, the child is very happy. Its like you are on a roller coaster with this sociopath. He is not stable in his ways, he states on thing and than we are on something else. Its like what can you do to show the Judge this person is not stable, not in his right mind, he write letters that is crazy but very socialable, convincing, he said in one letter I just want him in jail, he wants self in jail, he continued to do things that is unlawful. Any advice.
(Report abusive comment)
PrincessKK says:
I had noticed when you react to the things the sociopath states they will get a joyment out of it, it happen in the courtroom, i had a outburst to the lies he had stated but we were never on the topic of the minor child, it was always once again about him and i am learning to keep the focus on what i am there and tell the Judge i am here about the well being of my child not about him or anything he has stated, we need to keep the focus on about the child well being. I noticed they can be very convincing and give you this smirk smile after I had been told that I was the reason he was no longer working which he had stated in the letter which I am like I should prove this wrong for my case, because the Judge stated if you gotten him fired you cannot get any money. which I knew this boy was lying, he gives me this smile but i know it is a man higher than that, God!
(Report abusive comment)
OxDrover says:
Dear PrincessKK,
Welcome to LoveFraud, you are in the right place. Most of them do NOT have the official “diagnosis” but do fit the criteria, so we just a hve to assume, if it “walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it is probably q DUCK.”
Go to Dr. Leedom’s site, “raising an at-risk child” she has some good information there for people who must share parenting with these people. Stay around here and read too and learn, there are some tremendously wonderful and compassionate people who share your frustrations with your X because of your child. God bless you and your child. (((hugs))))
(Report abusive comment)
PrincessKK says:
Dear OxDrover
Thank you for the welcome. I had tried to explain to people the things I have been dealing with since 2005 when I had met him and it has been crazy ever since, it seems like a bad nightmare that I cannot wake up from but he states different to others, he changes the story around. I am so forever thankful I have someone to talk to about this, to help me, I want to make sure he is completely at standpoint. People believe his evil lies after lies.
Do you think it is best to subpoena the job to get the information why he is no longer employed there because he has stated to the Judge I gotten him fired which is a lie. I felt the Judge believed him, he had repeated it to me.
Thank You my child need all the blessing. I am afraid for his life. He is not going to want to be there by himself. I had asked for supervised visitation, the child do not know him, he will be scared too death. I will not be able to rest if he is with him alone.
(Report abusive comment)
shabbychic says:
PrincessKK, welcome to LF, I’m glad you found this site! What does your attorney say about requesting his job info? Keep reading, as Oxy suggested, and document eveything, keep a journal and record each day that you don’t hear from him, days that he does not try to find out about the welfare of his child or even try to talk to him. Write down your conversations with him… and I think your’re right, don’t react emotionally to him, be boring… as skylar would say!
(Report abusive comment)
skylar says:
PrincessKK,
Welcome,
although we naturally want to be truthful at all times, with a sociopath, you cannot ever disclose the truth or show emotions. Everything they know about you, they will use against you.
so, yes, get the records from his work about why he was fired, if you can, but don’t let him know what you are doing because he will get there first.
also, don’t show any emotion, don’t have outbursts. He is only interested in the child for the sake of getting an emotional reaction from you. Behave as if you don’t have emotions.
Play your cards close to your chest, don’t disclose anything unless you need to.
(Report abusive comment)
PrincessKK says:
Hi Skylar
The attorney states will ge the record from the job and then all of sudden she is like no need to get it, it will cost and I am like if you can show the court that he is lying under oath that is perjury. I had learned to document everything, keep records of everything even the emails from 2007 to present. I had tried to communicate with him recent about him contacting me about seeing the child since he claim he is interested, he had came back as if he did not even know my contact information which he has it, he even told me the number to call me, he only going to speak to me on his time, he has a violation of probation out on him as we speak, its like why the court cannot see he is a jailbird, this is not in the best interest of the child, this is frustration, he like to stir things up when it was calm. I am afraid if the child is with him alone he will pick up his bad habits or he will harm him for he no longer can pay support as if he does it anyways, he just want him to be gone for he can be on his merry way, he is a very deceitful person. He knows in his heart he had never contact about seeing the child. He has been in and out of jail. When he had gotten out when the baby was born he stated he had other things he had to do and he will see about coming why the court do not take this inconsideration. I am not going to let him upset me anymore, but he had brought up something in the past that bothers me, someone lied, he is evil, you are so right whatever they know about you they will try to used it against you, he think he knows this guy that likes me, he is married, a friend, of the wife and the man, he going to mention it in there which he was only trying to find out information to help my case and to see how he feel about things, he spoken of me so badly, it was ashame and the next day he comes back to him oh i hope she find someone good, she deserves it and this and that he wanted to be friends with me but i did not understand that and i am like oh my goodness, he was the one gotte on his knees to ask me to be his girlfriend. The guy felt like he was jealousy. I told him he is a con artist. You have said it loud and clear he is only interested in the child for the sake to get a emotional out of me, to threaten me about child support, he feel since nothing else did not work, I will used this. I remember when he was locked up for illegal drugs, stolen gun, he asked the Judge, all I want to know do the child support end, he did not care, he will go to prison as long as he do not have to provide, he said it has been the worst 4 yrs of his life, he turn things around on you as if he is the victim. You think I do need to get the documentation, the job told me how to go by getting it, to subpeona them for the information. I think I need to get this for myself. The attorney feel I am being too consumed with his life which he is the one started all of this and all I want to make sure my baby is safe from this individual. I asked for supervised visitation, the baby do not know him, he will be afraid of him. I remember bringing him twice to the court, he walk right on by him as if he wasn’t there but he wants to be in his life, come on. Yeah, he think he has something to gain. He is ready to seek and destroy. He do not mention this incident to the court, but I held it all back for he do not know how I am coming at all. I am not going to disclose anything, he tried to get pictures through people I know for he can have them, for his benefit, he tryin to pay nasty right about now. He always trying to plot a scheme. Does they every stop? The time my baby went to the court, was screaming so badly, let’s let’s go as if knew danger was around the corner and there he goes, the baby had sense and put head on my chest, I am the protector for the child……why the court do not listen, they should know if a man want to be in their child life they will be without all of this frustration!
(Report abusive comment)
FLORDUH says:
Carla could be me.
Only mine sociopath is a NASA Gov’t employee, and he only wants my/our 7 year old daughter, as he says he will never pay me a dime. After 14 months, and he stole, 50k of marital assets, and the courts let this abusive guy who has given her a perm scar and DCF, the local keystone cops, etc, no one does their job.
He has 4 grown sons, no contact thru their lives, so why me and her? He let 1 be adopted by a guy, 2,3,4 are grown and TX wants 30k still from him.
And my princess that I spent 3 1/2 yrs fertility wise, in jax and then down here, around KSC, and then 10 months pregnant protecting her, and 6 years as a full time mother. Now Im in a divorce, and he acts like he is god too. He changes the rules/has not paid a court order signed by the judge Dec 05th 2008 that he pay the mortgage to the home. He still has not, and has moved into a resort then a 2/2 to a 3/2 with a garage, pool, spa, fitness ctr, and I cannot do yard work, as he abused me, and bulged discs in my lumbar and neck. Plus he stole all the tools and anything worth a dime.
He makes 78k a yr, and I make 300, 2 days a month, military reserves. As that will kill me for a week, but it gives me life insurance, etc.
So where do they teach these sociopaths version to divorce tactics? Clear out accounts, pull up a uhaul and take everything valuable… Then lie, lie and lie. I cannot co-parent with this jerk. He abused me, my 21 year old at 16, verbally to my mom on her trips to help me when I could not walk, and has now abused my 7 yr old, and the police and DCF with photo’s DO NOTHING!! They even lied in court and said, well I dont remember her looking like that… REALLY, you pulled her out of school and took her to the DCF doctor, then DID nothing. She fell out of bed, he said. I laceration 2 inches across her cheek from the bed on the ROOF?? Ughh
I also want him out of my life. There is no way to co-parent with a sociopath!!!
(Report abusive comment)
OxDrover says:
Dear florduh,
Welcome to love fraud.
Go to Dr. Liane Leedom’s blog which is linked here. .She has a son by a P and is a professional. There are many resources there.
I’m sorry you are having so manyu problems with your X. keep hope and don’t let him get you down.
READ READ READ and LERARN LEARN LEARN, it is the only way to survive. Knowledge=power, take back your power and your strength. God bless you and your chhild. I am glad you are here, this is a good place. good people and WE believe you.
(Report abusive comment)
heavenbound says:
Question
My child asks if he is going with the p since he didn’t get to go last time due to being sick. I said no. He wants to know why. (because he wants to go to the drag strip). What would you say to your child? (I think I blew this one too)
(Report abusive comment)
freemama says:
Anyone know if I have to give my babysitter’s name to my ex spath? I have a restraining order and chose to maintain a confidential address, which was supported by the court. My babysitter lives directly behind me. I am sending him the check receipts with her name crossed out, and he is supposed to pay 70% of childcare expenses, but he is saying he is supposed to pay her directly (and unfortunately that is the wording on the DCS order). He claims he needs it for tax purposes, but it is my year to claim him and he won’t even be able to deduct childcare expenses this year (or any other if I get my way in court this December). You and I know he just wants to know where I live, but how can I prove this and make him pay anyway??? It’s the weekend so I can’t call DCS, but this is really bothering me. I just went back to work, and really need this money from him NOW.
(Report abusive comment)
ErinBrock says:
The holes in the system!
Get simple SMALL receipt book . Have provider write on the receipt – Paid Cash. (Checks ARE considered cash). All you need to provide him is the receipt of cash paid for childcare for reimbursement.
Plan on paying her cash. Go back to her and request she fill in prior receipts for care as documetation.
I would be surprised if a court balked at him not paying her directly, as usually childcare is payed on a weekly or as needed basis…..WHEN YOU PICK THE CHILD UP.
So, no babysitter can be forced to be paid by 70% him and 30% you…..WHEN he gets around to paying her.
It’s YOUR divorce/custody issue NOT the CC providers.
If he took you back to court on this….it would only serve to expose his unwillingness to cooperate and punish you by being a pain in the ass.
(Report abusive comment)
freemama says:
Thanks EB – that’s my thinking, too. Should I draft up some kind of letter explaining that I am not going to breach my confidentiality and just keep sending him receipts? Or just keep sending him receipts? I already addressed the fact that I did not feel comfortable giving her this information, which is why he responded with “Well the DCS papers say you have to!” I pay my 30% to the daycare he uses on his one weekday custody day (which he kept him in even though he didn’t have a job for 3 months), but that’s a daycare with a billing cycle and tax id #. This is just my neighbor helping me out. I’m doing this under the table at the moment until I can move to day shift at work and use a licensed provider, who also lives next to me (I work evenings at the moment).
Man I wish I had a lawyer about now. I hate dealing with that man!!!!
(Report abusive comment)
ErinBrock says:
I have found that ……don’t address things with the spath….JUST DO IT.
If he addresses things with you……turn it back on him.
Keep sending ‘what you have’. Just a cash receipt. You paid cash…..this is all which is legally required.
If he doesn’t like it…..HE can take you back to court.
HE will be the one who looks bad by bickering about this.
Just pay the friggen bill spath……everything doesn’t need to be hammered out to the nth degree.
Don’t engage him.
Remove yourself from this engagement.
Just mail him the cash receipts and expect payment. Leave it at that.
You don’t need an attorney…..trust me…..the more you ‘do’ with a spath….the more you learn how to back spath them…..and put it right back on HIS plate.
(Report abusive comment)
freemama says:
Well I can tell you now he’s just not going to pay. He did this with the child support. Didn’t pay me for 5 months when he knew I didn’t have a job and had huge vet bills. My attorney at the time requested that he pay me *something* before the hearing (which his attorney postponed 3 times, then backed out of the case) and he just ignored it, and nothing whatsoever happened to him. He’ll just make me eat it, then give some lame excuse at our court date in December, pointing to the stupid clause in the DCS papers which say payment needs to be made directly. Even if the judge forces him to pay (“Oh gosh, your honor – I guess I made a mistake! Please forgive me – I meant no harm to anybody!”), he’ll pay it off slowly… just enough to keep him in compliance, which is what he’s doing with the child support back pay. It’s maddening! How can no one in the legal system see that they do this on purpose to make your life miserable?!
(Report abusive comment)
freemama says:
I do have some positive news to report on the spath-back front. When I told the ex I was taking our ds in for therapy because he is having such a hard time with the seperation and spath’s new girlfriend, he broke the restraining order (again) with this manipulative e-mail basically telling me that my decision to go no-contact was the reason ds is having such a hard time. This was a good one – “We are both good and strong people – I believe we can both overcome our fears and anger to come together and communicate positively fro ds’ sake”. Being familiar with the guilt-trip technique for many years now, I refused to take the bait. I simply wrote back, “If you are willing to complete Batterer’s Intervention as I requested in my parenting plan proposal, I will certainly entertain the idea of communicating with you. Otherwise, please respect the restraining order and limit your e-mails to ds’ health and schedule.” NO response. I also gave him one more chance to comply with my 2 phone calls per week, which is pretty generous considering I have more than enough evidence to file a motion of non-compliance. One more chance, I think, will look positive, since I’m actually not interested in expending the time or energy to file yet another motion, but I will if he screws up again (which he will). I know I need to start submitting declarations of non-compliance soon. Need to get all the phone records, I think, and submit it all together.
(Report abusive comment)
OxDrover says:
Dear Mama, You are not yet “free” of him, but sounds like you are handling things pretty well is it possible for her (CC lady) to meet him somewhere to give her the money directly? Or at least TELL him that is how it will be handled if he doesn’t want to accept a receipt from her. Or you can get a PO box in HER NAME at one of those Mail box things places and he can mail it to her there.
I think I would find some way to screw around the “directly” thing and find a “direct” way he can’t refuse to pay and come out looking like a “mistake.”.
(Report abusive comment)
freemama says:
So now I had to call in sick to work because the spath refused to allow my babysitter to pick up my ds from his mom’s unless I made her show her id to the mother. He has already refused to pay childcare unless I gave him her info. UGH!!!!
I think it’s time to go back to court to get a change in the temporary plan. He was granted every weekend Thurs-Sunday because (according to my lawyer at the time) I was not working do to an injury. Now that I’m back to work, and it’s clear he’s not willing to be at all flexible with the schedule, I have a shot at more custody, right? My job works variable shifts according to what my seniority date can hold. The best shift for me is evenings, but once school starts, he will basically be in school all day and I won’t see him, nor will I get reimbursed for the childcare he is refusing to pay for unless I allow him to violate my restraining order and confidential address and possibly subject my childcare provider to his harassment.
Any advice??? I’m going to a legal clinic Wednesday to help with the paperwork. But what kind of schedule should I ask for based on my working schedule???
(Report abusive comment)
Buttons says:
Freemama {{{STRONG HUGS}}} He’s playing games to the best of his ability. Are you in the US? In every State, Legal Aid is available specifically to address CUSTODY and VISITATION. Legal Aid (at least, in VA) does not assist in separation or divorce issues. You’re going to need a balls-to-the-wall attorney on this. An attorney who will hear you and work to protect you and your child.
Under no circumstances would I recommend that you allow violation of a restraining order. Figure SOMEthing out – a friend, a relative who can help you out until this is sorted out in Court. You may guarantee that the childcare provider will not only be subject to harassment, but possible physical harm if this nutbag slips a cog and tries to kidnap the child.
I would ask for a night schedule so that my child can sleep with a babysitter and, once school begins, I can sleep while he’s at school. It’s hard and challenging, but you will make the right choices for you. Just try to keep in mind that the expath is out to “get” you for having the nerve to leave! Be vigilant, toughen your heart, and take NO prisoners!!!!
Brightest blessings!!!!
(Report abusive comment)
freemama says:
Thanks, Buttons. I do have his cousin available at times, but after today she was so furious at him she’s now threatening to cut us both off. I validated to her that it’s not fair that she and his mother get caught up in it, but he makes sure it happens to keep me as isolated as possible. He just blames it on me, the “crazy ex”. I have no family here. They all know “how he can be”, but the advice to me is always “Get over it. You guys need to work it out for the sake of the kid.” Yeah – it’s okay to get abused, as long as you “get over it”, I guess. Having a baby with a spath obviously means you signed up for it, right?? What a world. I’ve let go of the need to change anybody’s mind in his family. They’re utterly useless to me.
Night schedules are brutal, but they will work for school. I can get one with weekends off, and hopefully ask for every other weekend like I did in my proposal. They don’t work so much now. I’d have to pay for a nightsitter, plus daycare while I sleep. Ugh. I just walk around so stressed out all the time over this. All I want to be is a mom. I’m an AWESOME mom. He can’t even deny that or allege different (though he tried to by calling CPS… they dropped the charge, and said he doesn’t get any more chances to make malicious allegations against me with them.)
I don’t deserve this. I just read the happy endings on here and hope there will be one out there for me one day.
(Report abusive comment)
Buttons says:
Freemama, nobody deserves this – it’s just something that we’ve all had to learn to cope with.
The “happy ending” is being FREE of the spath. Take that to the bank, ladybug!
HUGS!!!!
(Report abusive comment)
ErinBrock says:
Go back and request ALIMONY also……due tot he fact he’s making it impossible to keep a job with these games.
You need to find some way to back spath him…..to make him think twice about messing with you.
Money always seems to work!
How well do you know this babysitter….is she a good friend of yours……?
I agree…a po box you pay for in her name is a good option.
I do know…..since the tpo is for you and not the child…..the tpo court won’t get involved….but you need to raise this issue in family court.
(Report abusive comment)
Buttons says:
EB is SPOT-ON!!!! Hit them in the wallets – it’s their only vulnerable spot!
(Report abusive comment)
freemama says:
Can you get alimony when you weren’t married? I’m thinking not. Oh, man – he would do the work thing a lot when we were doing exchanges at my work place. He just wouldn’t show up, wouldn’t answer the phone. It’s not pleasant to be in a railroad yard with a 3 year-old… I’d have to go home sick and get in trouble for “laying off on call”. I’m just envisioning that as my future now…
(Report abusive comment)
Buttons says:
Freemama, it’s called PALIMONY…..and, depending upon your State, common-law-marriage may apply. A good attorney can get this done for you.
(Report abusive comment)
ErinBrock says:
Sorry…I was thinking you were married. My bad!
But buttons is right…..check into Palimony if you were together long enough…..and fit the criteria in your state.
(Report abusive comment)
freemama says:
Just checking in. The last paper was signed today – the second time my ex spath didn’t contact either me or my lawyer until the day before trial, ensuring that I spent lots of money in preparation. You can’t imagine how infuriating that was! Well… you probably can. The last order of business was our restraining order. He wanted to add language that I can’t “harass” his significant others or go to their houses. Ridiculous… I’ve known about his new girlfriend for months thanks to discovery, and I have NO desire to contact her. Just a way to “put me in my place”, I guess. Then he wanted to add language that our communication be “respectful” and “business-like”. I saw the writing on the wall for that one… he does his spathy passive aggressive/gaslighting/abusive stuff, and I have to take it “respectfully”. I saw that as a pretty clear indication that he was hoping to drag me to court over and over for contempt. No thanks. So today he offered to simply not have restraining orders. I went for it. If he’s gonna harass me, I know very well now how to get a restraining order. I don’t trust him for a second, but I’d rather take my chances than risk going to court again and again. So at the last possible second (AGAIN), he signed. It’s all over. He got everything he wanted (50/50, joint decision making), and I’m out $15,000. I had my first Christmas without my son, and am looking forward to New Year’s alone as well, thanks to this wonderful parenting plan. And the man who SWORE in document after document that he wanted to be actively involved in his son’s care and I was a total liar by telling the court he didn’t do anything, now he’s refusing to answer any questions about taking him to upcoming appointments or getting him on his insurance. He just ignores the requests completely. The “joint decision making” deal is that one parent makes a request, and if the other parent doesn’t respond in 5 days, that parent has the tacit approval to make the decision. To him, it says, “If I just ignore her, she’ll do all the work because she’s obviously the only one who cares about this”. My son is special needs. He has a LOT of appointments. Secretly I kidded myself into thinking he was sincere about wanting to do these things… he told the court I “wouldn’t let him”. What a joke. I should know by now. And of course, in the two short weeks since we signed the parenting plan he has given me no less than 5 extra days, which of course I am happy to take, but what the heck happened to the man who would do ANYTHING to spend even “one precious minute” with his son as he wrote to the court??? Jeez. At least I got child support.
I wrote before how the parenting class facilitator (the class he was forced to take for being abusive to our son) wrote glowingly about how far he had come. She even wrote that she was so impressed, she asked him to come back and mentor the class. She offered to testify on his behalf at his trial. Well, now that the paperwork’s signed, I called her up and asked if maybe there was a class that could help me deal with co-parenting with a sociopath. She recommended an “anger management” class, since I was clearly off my rocker with unresolved rage for no reason. I calmly explained that anger management was not appropriate for victims of domestic violence. She basically sat there on the phone and told me it never happened! She had never once spoken to me… that was how passionately she believed his lies. I wrote a brief e-mail explaining how sociopaths operate, especially in the court system, and recommended she read “The Sociopath Next Door”, and perhaps someone like me might benefit in the future by her knowledge that there REALLY ARE sociopaths out there, and they’re not too easy to miss when you know what to look for. I doubt she took it seriously… she sounded like a total bee-atch… probably a spath herself!!
Anyhoo, I’m doing okay despite it all. He’s tried to bait me so many times since the papers were signed, but thanks to the wisdom of all of you here, I recognize it for what it is and refuse to give him the energy he so desperately wants. I finally feel like I can deal with him. I’m just really mourning for my son. He’s only 5, and tells me constantly that he doesn’t want to go to his dad’s, and there’s nothing I can do. Maybe dad is giving him to me more because he simply can’t deal with the anger from the boy like I can. That’s fine. I just hate every second that he’s not here. That spath is not a father. Not anymore than swimming in a lake makes me a fish! He’s a monster who’s been given permission by the state and its endless parade of bureaucrats to kidnap my kid once a week. That’s what it feels like. Please please please someone tell me it’s going to get better!
(Report abusive comment)
ErinBrock says:
Free:
It does get better……
and the more ‘time’ he has with Jr, the more bored he will become……
The more you ‘need’ him to coparent……the less he will.
So…….let him be the parent……’allow’ him more time, more access and more authority……like apts etc…..
DO NOT show anger……you know this….
Just let him think he’s winning…..
He’ll move along when he feels jr is no longer a prize to get to you.
It does get better…….just bite your tongue until then.
I’m glad you got the divorce final. That’s a HUGE step!!!!
(Report abusive comment)
one_step_at_a_time says:
freemama, think you might ask him to put a condom on before you ‘respectfully take it’, again.
you’ve got his number, and that poor sap of a facilitator is duped. she’s in for a rude awakening. it’s good that you tried – you had to. And you have given her info for when, not if, it all goes to hell.
‘He’s a monster who’s been given permission by the state and its endless parade of bureaucrats to kidnap my kid once a week.’ he WILL fuck up sooner or later and in such a way that it affects his rights. document and keep protecting yourself. the power you do have is to wait and seize the moment when it comes; you have that, and a big love for your son, and a damn clear mind, given the circumstances!
(Report abusive comment)
skylar says:
freemama,
(hugs)
make him think that you are using the time he has with your son to go to a spa and get your hair done. Don’t tell him, but drop clues – reciepts or face book posts or other ways. Soon he will be so envious that he won’t want the child. At that point sound angry and disappointed, tell him it’s unfair to the child that he can’t see his dad. It’s easy to dupe the spaths because they have no idea what normal is and they can’t tell when we are acting. They are stupid beyond belief, the only thing they have going for them is that we can’t imagine being that way. But once we do… game over.
(Report abusive comment)