The philosophy of a sociopath
PDF Lovefraud recently received a letter from a woman who we’ll call Valerie. She met her husband, who we’ll call Dylan, at age 18, and has been with him for seven years. She thought they were happy together in their wonderful home with their family of pets.
Suddenly Dylan started acting erratically. He said he didn’t want to be with Valerie any more. He picked fights. She asked Dylan to leave, but made it clear that she was willing to do whatever was necessary to help him. So he left, and wouldn’t tell her where he was. Eventually, Valerie’s intuition told her to check her husband’s Facebook page, where she found Dylan’s love letters to another woman.
Then Valerie found how Dylan described himself on another website. Here’s what he wrote:
My name is Dylan and I believe in Chaos, destruction and murder. I will contradict myself but I don’t think that should make me a hypocrite. I hone my strengths and hide my weaknesses because only the strong will survive. I lie, cheat and steal. But only if it’s the most intelligent plan of action; & only the stupid get caught. I’m fighting a personal rebellion I can’t justify. I’m losing my mind, my friends and my morals with each passing day, but each day I pass leads me closer to finding myself. I would rather live my life in surrender to temptation than to deny my natural instincts. I never hurt those who do not hurt me first, I don’t believe in physical confrontation but as in eastern philosophy I am trained to engage in it, if for nothing more than the practice of strengthening the bond between mind and body.
I know who I am, but not where I am, or why I am here. I find Art to be the only voice of reason in a place otherwise inhabited by counter-production. I promote sex, but lack emotion, I hate addicts but I believe in drugs, I make music but I destroy everything else. I bore easily but I am doomed to repeat myself.
My name is Dylan and this is only the beginning.
Whoa! Did this guy just write the sociopath manifesto?
I don’t know if Dylan is truly describing himself—apparently he’s got some kind of hardcore band and perhaps he wrote the above statement for its shock value. Still, is it possible to even come up with these ideas if he didn’t experience the state of mind that they imply?
Fundamentally different
The truly scary thing about sociopaths is that they are fundamentally different from the rest of us. They do not want what we want. They do not value what we value.
Normal human beings want affection, cooperation and achievement. We want to care about others and contribute to life. Sociopaths want power, control and sex, and they’ll destroy anyone and anything to get what they want.
But sociopaths look like us and appear to act like us. That’s why they are so hard to identify. It’s also why people who have not experienced their manipulation up close and personal find it so difficult to believe us. The uninitiated—those lucky souls who have not been devastated by a sociopath—have yet to learn that there are people in the world for whom proclamations of love, truth and promises are nothing but tactics in a power game.
Everything changes
This is the bottom line: Dealing with a sociopath changes everything. Normal human courtesies do not apply. Social protocols do not apply. Rules do not apply. Contracts do not apply. Laws do not apply.
If we find that we are interacting with a sociopath, the best thing we can do is get the person out of our lives. When that is not possible, we need to be on mental red alert at all times and understand that anything the person says may be a lie. We need to know that for the sociopath, we are not a friend, or a lover, or a relative, or a co-worker. For a sociopath, all we are is a target.
written by Donna Andersen • Permalink •
Rosa says:
Matt:
You are AMAZING! I know it cannot be easy there for you.
You (and your mom) are in my thoughts and prayers.
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Joy says:
I have had to cut and paste and print a ton of stuff off here today. Thanks Morgan for the post as it will be printed and framed and read daily.
Henry, Jade is a very pretty stone and prized among some:). Jaded? I would think for a time a least we all are a little. Helps us protect ourselves.
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Joy says:
Matt, I think I speak for us all. We are there with you in spirit sending love and strength your way. Hope and pray it all works out for you! Mom is your focus and that is as it should be.
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learnthelesson says:
Matt,
“I can’t do anything to stop my parents’s enabling him. All I can do is focus on the one thing I can do something about — the relationship between my mother and me.”
TOWANDOOOOOO! Best wishes to you and your Mom. God Bless…
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libelle says:
Matt, kindheart, my heart goes out to you both and your mom and dad, and I hope you find the strength to just let drop off the comments of the insignificant others as rain drops fall from a duck’s well oiled feathers.
Stargazer, I could relate so much to what you said about your parents! Now my little nieces I met yesterday (10 and 8 and 2 years old) get the same treatment by my brother and his second wife as we got by our parents ourselves, it is a shame as my brother always complains about the bad treatment he got, the golden child! The nieces are so obviously not loved but a pain to their parents (the girls are just angels and wonderful, I got very angry when I realised this all). They get shoved about as we have been used to. It is a little miracle to me that my mother (N) kind of “got it” that it is just a very horrible treatment the children get and that we have to do something about it, and she will now be in charge of the two older kids. It is an inconvenience for her, of course, but finally she kind of SEES the problem (when we were kids it was no problem at all). I am also very proud of my mother that she is able to set healthy boundaries towards my brother financially who seems to develop into a P more and more, and the second wife is just a horrible horrible bad queen from the fairy tales.
Morgan, thank you for the wonderful words of the Dalai Lama. I also loved your analogy. Vintage to me means not only old wine (that often has turned into vinegar…) but also cherished memories, and of course lots of things thought to be of value at a time that did not “age well” but decayed. thanks a lot! I will open an old port in your honor!
Once a psychologist said to me as I told her some years ago that I was cleaning my garage and my cellar and the attic: you are really cleaning up with your OLD LIFE, and she explained to me that these are the places hidden from the others and only we know what it is there. It is very demanding to do such a task!
For my patients when they tell me about “they are clearing the house”, it means often for them to prepare for the last part of their lives, getting rid of burdens they refused to deal with so far (I work as a doctor with cancer patients). It is a sign for me to look for. You have to be prepared to face the cellar and the attic, often it is very hard (specially the “cherished but decayed things”, to let go).
Oxy, I also could relate on your comment on “being too hard towards oneself”. I was once attending a course on “nonviolent communication”, and a part was about “internal communication”. I did command and reprimand and rant at myself that the teacher kind of “boinked” me in a very kind way, to set boundaries to MYSELF for not being self-abused by myself. Amazing, I did not know where it came from, and it still is kind of an enigma to me, because I hardly ever raise my voice or shout on the OUTSIDE. Respect oneself!!
Trash and treasure: like my good old shit and manure, depending where it is put on (shoe or meadow). I try to look in every shit where it could be useful as manure. (the port went to my head a little bit, sorry). Have a nice evening!
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akitameg says:
Oxy–
thanks so much for your info on Wellbutrin.
Just saw my doc– he does not think it’s causing it either.
thanks.
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OxDrover says:
Dear LIbelle,
Shit on a shoe, or manure on the meadow! A GREAT ANALOGY!!! On one it is useful and on the other it is filth! Never thought about it that way!!!!!
If I ever get cancer, I want you for my physician!!!
According to Dr. Eric Berne, who wronte “Games People Play” the internal critical “voices” are the “tapes” we record from our parents criticizing us and we just play them over and over in our heads. We can’t ever totally get rid of these critical evaluations, but we CAN hit the “mute” button when we hear them play and make us feel guilty or bad about ourselves.
This “internal parent” has both good qualities and bad qualities, and we can CHOOSE which ones we listen to. We can also insert our own analysis of ourselves independently of the “implanted” ones from childhood.
Not all of us had totally nurturing and loving parents, some of us had parents who were abusive and more critical of us than others. some had 99% good parenting and others 99% critical parenting and every combination inbetween. However, we don’t have to take all of these “tapes” at face value.
Even if your parent put nothing but abuse into your “cellar” and “attic” you can clean it out. You can SELF assess what you are TODAY no matter what “mommie dearest” told you that you were when you were a kid.
I never pleased my biological parents, though I know for a fact that my step-father treasured and was proud of me, and so I focus on what HE thought about me. My last 18 months with him when I cared for him through his ordeal with cancer was some of the most prescious time we spent together and I got to see a wonderful side of him that I didn’t even know was there, his quiet nature and dry sense of humor BLOOM and expand. We laughed more those months, in the face of gloom and doom, than either of us had ever laughed. It was my pleasure to be there for him, as he had been there for me when I was a kid.
Since my husband died in July of 2004, I have been going through a great many “cherished but decayed” things (that is a great way to phrase it!) and clearing out my life’s attic and cellar! As well as the Physical attics and storage rooms. It has been a journey frought with good memories and bad ones, but healing for me.
Thank you so much for being here on LF. Your gentle wisdom and kindness is always appreciated. (((hugs))) and my prayers for you!
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Jim in Indiana USA says:
Oxy and libelle…..
“OxDrover says:
Dear LIbelle,
Shit on a shoe, or manure on the meadow!”
Reminded me of a song…got the cd…Kris Kristofferson called it an “answer” song…to The Wind Beneath My Wings…I’ve dedicated it to my ex-tox…but in the past tense. LOL
The Race
The Race is harder than arithmetic
And some’ll say it can’t be won
And it gets harder when your shoes are slick
But I had set my mind to run
And it was harder than I bargained for
With broken dreams at every turn
But I had heart enough to almost make it through
And a lesson yet to learn
I slipped and fell before the finish line
Just when it seemed I couldn’t lose
I can fall anytime you want me to
You are the shit beneath my shoes
_________________________________
Kris Kristofferson
Broken Freedom Song Album
Live From San Francisco (2003)
Jody Ray Publishing, Inc (BMI)
(couldn’t find it on YouTube)
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Tood says:
One more comment about Wellbutrin. I took it for 2-3 months during the initial “shock” stages and it helped me reach a somewhat even keel. Later, I went back to it after almost a year, when I found myself stuck in the deep depression that went along with my recovery process…when I’d find myself waking up from a sound sleep with tears already running down my cheeks, when the many psychic pains were so relentless and distinct, I could distinguish between “types” of tears–the big, rolling, fat ones for long-suppressed infant pain; the pinched feeling of the throat-clenching tears of adult betrayal; and the intermittent snot-slinging tears of anger and incoherence.
I didn’t have any physical side effects, and I did find the Wellbutrin (or whatever its generic equivalent was) useful. It helped me reconnect with a genuine feeling of happiness, a feeling with which I had entirely lost touch during my many years with the psychopath. I remember driving to work one morning, looking at the just-budded spring trees and the picturebook sky, and realizing that I was happy for the first time in recent memory. And I knew I wouldn’t have been able to get there without the help of the drug. I had been too traumatized for too long. I was out of whack. The chemical boost helped me find myself as a separate, adult person and focus on what could be done, rather than what was never to be. It helped put me squarely in the “now,” and enjoy it besides. The prescription helped me get out of that feeling of being diffuse and unconnected with reality. You guys know what I’m talking about.
However, I personally have a deep and abiding distaste for becoming dependent on prescription drugs, especially psychoactive drugs. My first husband had a history of mental illness, hospitalization, and dependence on Tofranil and Valium, and I did not want in any way to become dependent on these kinds of drugs. I saw what the mental dependence did to him. It turned him into a panicked junkie, and not even a passing sane one, at that. So I made the decision to get away from the prescriptions as quickly as I could. I’m a natural sort of gal. Organic. NNWWSNM
But, in any of our individual cases, I say stick with whatever works. This recovery business is so specific to us as singular and unique people, even though we all share so many traits and life experiences. If it works, keep it. If it doesn’t, give it the old heave-ho. Try anything in your struggle to recover. Just recover. That’s the main thing.
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Tilly says:
It never occurred to me that i didn’t have to attend my P parents funerals! ( they are not dead yet!) OMG! What a relief. I was dreading the fake speech from my P brother, not to mention the demands on me. That is a whole new idea for me to ponder. Will my FOG allow it?
I find it easy NOT to attend their “deathbeds” as I have been beside waiting on them my whole life.
Meantime I have found a whole new room to clean out…more like a gigantic warehouse to be honest.
The label on the rollerdoor of the wharehouse says, The :”I feel completely unworthy when other people, (that I respect )don’t like my work or me” room.
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Tilly says:
An old friend used to tell me if the mess looked to big, to sweep everything into the middle of the room and then chuck it out! Whatduyu reckon?
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Rune says:
Tood: You have made a very important distinction. You said,”I’d find myself waking up from a sound sleep with tears already running down my cheeks, when the many psychic pains were so relentless and distinct, I could distinguish between “types” of tears–the big, rolling, fat ones for long-suppressed infant pain; the pinched feeling of the throat-clenching tears of adult betrayal; and the intermittent snot-slinging tears of anger and incoherence.”
I knew that I was undergoing a transformation unlike anything I’d ever imagined when I experienced that first type of tears, and they would show up whether I had been asleep, or was awake and in a place where I couldn’t assign a trigger to my tears. I wasn’t dissociating, I wasn’t paranoid or dangerous, but I was experiencing a type of tears that were not at all under my control and that seemed to be coming from a place I never knew could exist within me.
In my effort to gain greater understanding, I came across this website. This information may not be to everyone’s taste, but it might be meaningful for some of us.
http://www.integral-inquiry.co.....dtears.htm
This academic paper touches on some historical, spiritual comments on people who undergo profound transformation, and who experience “sacred tears.”
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Tood says:
Rune,
Thank you so much for that link. It strikes a chord.
Strange, but just this week I have been reflecting on those “big fat rolling tears.” Yes, they were unlike anything I had ever experienced before. And yes, they went on for a very long time, unabated.
My reflections this week have been on the word “weeping.” And how “weeping” is different from “crying.” And how “weeping” is a spiritual practice. Such synchronicity here on LF.
I’ll re-read the link tomorrow. Sincere thanks.
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Rune says:
Tood: Let’s watch for each other. I’m glad I found this link and could share just now. And, in the LF synchronicity, I’m sure others will be watching as well.
I take a deep breath and breathe in grace and goodness, and let it permeate my being, and then I breathe out the old, tired illusions, so I can clear my body, heart, and mind, for the next incoming breath that brings new miracles of understanding.
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alohatraveler says:
Akitameg,
About Wellbutrin.. be careful if anyone suggests the generic for Wellbutrin to you. My sister took the generic and it made her paranoid, more depressed and kinda psycho…. a little bit.
She eventually googled it and found out there are a lot of terrible side effect to the generic one.
good luck with your healing.. dear akitameg.
Aloha
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Tilly says:
I am making this gigantic gothic window and I have had to do a lot of oil paintings in all the different panels . Making the actual window is the hardest part..I am so DUMB in carpentry. Its taken a lotta work. Last night I painted these two paintings that I really loved. It was one of those “five in your life time” paintings that you think, “God must of painted that through me cos I couldn’t paint that”. So off I went to place them in the two top panels this morning. I had decided that they were abstract pictures of “God” (as one had a kinda face in the heavens), it, came from nowhere.
When I got there they said. ” No, you can’t put those two paintings in the two outside top panels. They are the completely wrong style and they are too big.”
So they cut the paintings in half to fit them and now I have to repaint them. I was watching them, as they cut Gods head in half on the machine.
It reminded me of a time almost ten years ago.
I had taken five years to recover from the psychopath solicitor. I had been on my own and was starting to get my sense of humour back. I was going to church regularly, ( I don’t now), and I was praying more than I ever had before. One of the prayers that I was praying was, “Thankyou God for sending me my true heart partner for life, in Your time not mine and in Your way not mine”. One of the women at church helped me write a letter to God each week stating similar. It also asked that it be Gods will not my will and to protect me from evil. And guess who walked into my life?
You got it!! The psychopath dentist!! He came in to my life quoting the book,”Mans Search for Meaning” by Victor Frankl.Right on cue.
That is what the whole destruction of my God painting reminded me of today.That is what I was thinking of as I watched them slice my two favourite paintings I have ever done, in half, (so that they would fit in the churchy Gothic frame).
At first I had said to them, “no, you can’t cut it. I won’t let you cut them.” And they said “don’t be so ansy !”. Whats ansy?? Anyone know? (We had a deadline).
And then the three of us, (two men and me) had a quiet argument about it. Then I said, “well, bugger the Gothic window, we will just make it a flat top window because I am not cutting up this painting”. Then they said I was being unreasonable because it didn’t match the rest of the painting style in all the other panels. But I thought it did.
The worst part of it was, because I respect these people’s work (they are good artists), I wanted them to like me more than I could stick up for myself.
The grief I felt when they destroyed my paintings was terrible.
But they didn’t know, because I wanted them to like me, so I was saying, “Oh, I will just paint over it. Don’t worry.”
And now both paintings are gone.
And I am not going to paint over them. I am going to leave God with half a head in both sides
Because half a Gods head in two places is better than no Godhead in one…or something..
After all, we gotta compromise in this world aye Rosa??
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Rosa says:
Tilly:
I am sorry that they made you destroy your 2 favorite paintings.
You say they are good artists, and you respect them. They should be more respectful of YOU!
I am glad you are not going to paint over them, spoken just like a true artist.
And I have no idea what “ansy” is.
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OxDrover says:
Dear Tilly,
Whose WINDOW is this? Yours or Theirs? WHAT HORRIBLE PEOPLE THEY ARE!!!! Art is about YOU not their idea of what YOU should paint!
STAND UP to these creeps! I am so sorry that they did this to you! My “favorite” painting is one that NO ONE but ME likes! My teacher, a renound portrait painter hated it, but it is MINE and I LIKE IT.
Good for you, for leaving “half” in there as is…but next time, you will tell these arseholes to LEAVE YOUR PAINTINGS ALONE! TOWANDA!!!!
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libelle says:
Dear Tilly!
“The worst part of it was, because I respect these people’s work (they are good artists), I wanted them to like me more than I could stick up for myself.
The grief I felt when they destroyed my paintings was terrible.”
Your story reminds me of the today’s newspaper where I read that they cut off a man’s legs because he was too tall for the coffin. The widow, it was stated , was “not happy”.
I would leave this course ASAP. Creeps!!! Paintings are like one’s babies, and NOT TO BE CUT OR DEVALUED (“wrong style”!) Heck, van Gogh was also WRONG STYLE and sold but one painting in his lifetime!
It was a barbarian act and I strongly suspect pure and evil jealousy by those “artists”!
I think you found some other insignificant to practice NC. Towanda!
And before exiting the scene I would cut some of THEIR works
There is a famous Italian painter who cuts his canvases… I forgot his name, but every museum I visit has at LEAST one of the “slit paintings”. I will seach for the name tomorrow; you can state that you will make THEM famous NOW!
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Tilly says:
Thankyou my beautiful, loving, kind, amazing friends!! How lucky/blessed I am to have all of YOU!! You make me feel so good to be alive! There is nowhere else I could go and speak the truth and be understood…THANKYOU SO SO MUCH!!
The huge Gothic window (which is full of paintings in all the panels), is mine. it is to go in an exhibition with some other artists and their are already two prospective buyers.
But guess what?? God had a greater plan. i.e.
God looks ten times better with half a head in each panel and some white graffitti spray!!!! Who wouldathunkit? So all the psychopaths will be green with envy when it goes under the hammer! HA HA!!
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ErinBrockovich says:
Tilly:
This is a lesson on patience, control and not reacting immediately…..
All good things come in time……we just need to let what ‘will be…. be’.
I have learned over the past 3 years of hell that I can’t get upset at anything, because of what I THINK IT SHOULD BE. I have found that it all turns out for the better in the end, regardless of what it seems at the time……
I always thought of myself as a girl in control…..until I realized I was married to an S and It was all a facade…….
We have no choice than to let it all go! Do your best, put your heart into your life and what is supposed to come of it will!
Just keep the faith girl!
Who wouldathunkit??????
GO TILLY, GO TILLY!!!!!!
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wownowfree says:
Good article. Valerie ASSUMED her husband changed suddenly. What if she never found his comment on facebook? Would she ever discover the real Dylan? Is it possible that Dylan was ALWAYS this person and he is just truly expressing who he really is? Look at the BTK, he lived a “normal” life for years but taunted the police with his letters because he wanted people to know the “real” BTK.
It’s very rare for a person to “suddenly” change, unless they suffered an accident or were hit on the head. It’s scary to beleive that a person we lived with and cared for and loved for years was ALWAYs this evil. Sometimes it is easier to believe that they “suddenly changed”.
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OxDrover says:
Dear wownowfree,
A very good point! An OBVIOUS point, really, and many times we are “unable to see the trees because the forest gets in the way.”
Good going, Tilly! Hope you sell it for a big price and they don’t sell anything! TOWANDA!!!
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Tilly says:
Thankyou guys!
Your support means the WORLD to me, I am getting my faith back and I am starting to believe what I used to believe,you know, I mean I am being positive and optimistic again. That is HUGE for this little LF survivor!
I love what you said ErinB about:
“We have no choice than to let it all go! Do your best, put your heart into your life and what is supposed to come of it will!”
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Joy says:
Tilly, Towanda! For you.
Erin, Thank you for those words. I always like to say that where ever I am is exactly where I’m supposed to be and that God is in control, but in the midst of chaos I forget the grander plan and simply want my way.
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ErinBrockovich says:
Joy:
Take that thought into court with you on Tues……and make sure you leave the courtroom with those thoughts too!!!
Keep the balance in your life and you will do fine……whatever the outcome.
I’m with ya girl!!!
XXOO
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Joy says:
Thank you! Appreciate that more than you may know. Like LTL says I have the invisible lovefraud squad standing behind me. Will imagine you all there with me. And will come home to share either the victory or the defeat as I know you all will be here for me either way
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ErinBrockovich says:
Someone also mentioned the secret……so rid that ‘defeat’ phrase from your head!!
Keep the balance…..picture it, feel it, see it…..
Your prepared, your armed up.
You have the goods…..go getum!!!
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Joy says:
I will try to be positive, but I need to lack emotion and passion and that is so hard for me to imagine as I am a very feelings oriented person. I will have to call back all that old drama class training and play a role. Thinking female version of Dr. House minus the sarcastic attitude. And to shake me up today, I got a call from one of his stores where he would have been at that time of day. A one ring hang up call, but it is on caller ID. Lawyer says no way to prove it was him, but really what are the odds of a random wrong number? It was his way to mess with me and say haha you can’t prove I’m bugging you, but I am! Typical Sp behavior. Nobody at the store would have my number and the employees are not supposed to make outgoing calls to anywhere not work related so really…I’m going to win. I have his criminal certified record being sent over night express. It will be admitted as evidence. And his true nature will be revealed. I have to cling to that hope and that reality.
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KATYA says:
Good Luck, Joy. Let us know how it goes. I will pray that courts see these monsters for what they are. I am starting to believe the “Evil among us” thing. It is not at all untrue, if you get downright philosophical.
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Joy says:
I won! Praise God. Towanda! Will post the whole story back here ina bit, but want to hit all the threads with the news.
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Rosa says:
Joy:
Congratulations!
I had a good feeling about it, but I did not want to jinx it.
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ErinBrockovich says:
POWER TO THE SURVIVORS!!!!!!!
WE CAN DO IT LFers……WE CAN!
BUT WE MUST be in CONTROL and regain our inner strength and POWER!!!!!
WORK off of others here to gain your strength…..BUT NEVER DOUBT it CAN BE DONE!!!!
We may have to lose some ‘battles’ (expect it)……but let that catapult you into winning the ‘wars’!!!!
GET MAD, use those emotions and let them take you to a place necessary to GET IT DONE.
Get away from the defensive mode and get proactive and take the offensive stance!
We have been there….we know how THAT feels……SHAKE IT UP AND KICK SOME PREVERBIAL BUTT!!!!!
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Joy says:
Now have that I have shared the news of the victory and where I planned to post the story I am ready to share the details of the win. I read Erin’s comment to me just prior to leaving for court, and it moved me to tears which was good a needed release but a good kind of tears as I was moved by kindness and support not fear, and I took that with me. He was not represented by the free lawyer, his arrogance perhaps or she felt there was no merit to his case, either way he was alone. No voice mail, no witnesses, no paper work. Just his liar’s mouth as that is all he spewed. He could not from the moment he took the stand get his act together. He stated his name. Next question. When were you divorced? Perplexed look. Umm Umm not sure but over a year ago. For his info and yours it was six months ago today. Next question how long were you married? Again lost look. Um Um Um. The courtroom bursts into laughter and the County cops admonish the court room that they need to be quiet as court is still in session. The judge looks at him and Says, “Sorry not trying to put you on the spot here but most people don’t find these questions so difficult to answer” The sp looks stupidly at judge and says,” I really don’t know but it was a while, a while.” Yes, most marriages have some meaning to those involved but an sp asked about a deleted life Really? that is just beyond them. It was a marriage entered into on Jan 2, 2001 and ended on Dec 9, 2008. With a three month period of dating prior to a year long engagement. So basically close to 10 years but “a while” sums it up so sufficiently don’t ya all think?! LOL! Basically he then went on to say that the child barely had a relationship with any of us and that there had been no contact for well over 2 yrs. Really?? So I imagined all the weekends at the movies, all the dinners every week, all the birthday and Christmas times spent together. I didn’t take her to see Twilight in November, I don’t carry her even now on my health insurance, She didn’t just a month ago ask me if I was still her Mom since obviously I have never been a Mom. I don’t have a stack of kid made jewelry and home made crayola cards stating her love for me? I am nobody to her? Really? are you F-ing kidding me you worthless sack of poo! God smack him really hard right now! Please! In the end I was professional, articulate, able to elaborate with dates and facts and records and what ever was needed to prove he was a liar. The judge stated at his ruling that he wanted me to know that he was removing the order of protection not to save my license for if he thought for one minute that I were a threat he would not hesitate to make me seek other means of employment. But he felt that this was a very sad situation. Where much hurt had occurred and that he was saddened by it all. That he felt the dad acted to protect his child and that I had acted to protect a child who I felt was mine and to whom I felt a Mother’s duty. He then said, “but she is not your daughter and any contact in the future with her father feeling as he does would be inappropriate.That any concerns should only go to the proper authorities. That I should refrain from trying to contact her and that we should both walk away from each other and this court fully separate and apart. And I agree. NC has been good for me. It has forced me to emotionally disconnect from what I was struggling to leave behind. This experience helped me see his true colors with no rose colored glasses or illusions intact. As we were driving through town about an hour later, we saw him getting out of his car now in his work clothes, pacing frantically in the parking lot and screaming into his phone. Probably whining to MOMMY that he didn’t get his way. Poor baby! Go cry those alligator tears to someone else and snap your jaws of evil destruction upon them in time as you always bite. And I’m done being chewed upon. Towanda! Much love to all who supported me. I FELT you there with me and that is sincere and no joke. Lovefraud warriors! Showing up for battle and taking back our lives, one victory at a time!
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Joy says:
Erin, “I GOT THE POWER!” LOL!
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ErinBrockovich says:
JOY:
I am listening to my theme song in YOUR HONOR….. CAN YOU HEAR ME SINGING ???!!!!
Perfect ‘after court’ empowerment song!
( I think)
I LOVE YOUR POWER!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....re=related
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ErinBrockovich says:
JOY:
OMG….
“we saw him getting out of his car now in his work clothes, pacing frantically in the parking lot and screaming into his phone. ”
I had the same visual of my ex s, after our court appearance, in the parking lot….arms flailing, pacing and on the phone screaming with such drama…….I am sure describing how badly he was victimized and poor me, how can SHE do this to ME!!!!
Oh, that was a gift……as my attorney, I and the sheriff (for protection) walked back to the attorneys office from court.
HA,HA,HA,HA,HA,HA,HA,HA!!!!!!!!
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Jim in Indiana USA says:
Joy…congratulations on your victory…on the order and the license! The girl…bittersweet for her situation. Time will pass. I guess you will both remember each other with affection. Savor your strength and the victory. You did what you had to do, and did it well…that’s power.
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Joy says:
Yes, in all the celebration I do not wish to lose sight of that fact that the child is still stuck with him, possibly still abused by him. Funny thing was I never accused him of it. He all on his own brought up his bathing her and sleeping with her making it all sound like it occurred only for a little while not that it still occurs so yep a single dad might welcome a daughter fresh from her bad dream into bed but night after night year after year she should not start off there and sleep the entire night every night with daddy. People in the elevator after court approached me commenting how they bet he molests that child. I just shrugged my shoulders let others reach their own conclusions and pray that if she is molested someone will discover the truth or hear her when she speaks out. All I can do is pray for her and if the time ever comes that she is old enough to reach out on her own welcome her with open arms.
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Joy says:
Erin, Just linked to that song. Had never heard it. Laughed my self sick. Totally cracked me up. Official lovefraud song? I say yes. Also good. Violent Femmes, Titled Kiss Off.
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Joy says:
And Jim, nice to hear from you again. Pictured you today beneath the apple tree in case I fell:)! Happy to say I’m still perch upon my branch and singing my new fave song courtesy of Erin!
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a_real_wife says:
YAY! Joy, you rocked! i was posting on the Becker thread “aging out of soc’s” and saw your post from last wkend earlier today – about 9 a.m. – and as I went about my day, off and on here as usual for my Tuesday (!) – I was holding good thoughts for you and your hearing today.
Hoping that you’d find, and pull up on that old INSPIRATION, from somewhere, and hold yourself together throughout your ordeal.
I am so glad to hear THAT you did it and HOW you did it. Congratulations.
One hopeful word from a former step-child to a step-mom I loved very much, and was saddened when she “had to” divorce my sperm-donor father; I looked her up, and invited HER to my wedding, not HIM. We all had a great time, she and my mom got along great – and we have the polaroid of all three of us – sending him a bird! lol
If the little girl you “lost” over this has any fondness for you in the future, and isn’t embittered by your Ex-P’s boolshwah – she will look you up, I am almost certain of it.
Again, Congratulations on your win today!
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OxDrover says:
Dear Joy, if he said in court that he sleeps with her, then you might call CPS and *(not give your name) juist say that you were in court and heard him say XYZ. They can get the records and at least INVESTIGATE. he may have convicted himself of bad stuff out of his own mouth!
CONGRATULATIONS!!! TOWANDA!!!! A WIN for the GOOD GUYS!!!!
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shabbychic2 says:
Joy: Congratulations! “In the end I was professional, articulate, able to elaborate with dates and facts and records and what ever was needed to prove he was a liar.” FABULOUS!!
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usedabused says:
Rune -
So sorry, off for about a week, had not seen your 6/02 post to me. Irony is, I bought it! Snakes in Suits, the issue came regarding a case and it’s on the way.
Thanks for the confirmation, the reviews were mixed so I was not sure it was worth it but now look forward to getting it.
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Joy says:
Realwife, Thank you for that hope. I promised her that we would take a trip when she turned 18. That I would get her a passport and we would celebrate. She was overjoyed to hear that. And I told her every year on your birthday and Christmas know that money is going in an account for that trip since you won’t hear from me. To watch travel shows and dream of where she would like to go. And that I would never swim with dolphins until we did it together as that is a big dream of hers. So Yes, I hope one day to have her back. And she knows how to find me as I will keep her dad’s last name, and it is very uncommon. But I doubt that it will happen. In a matter of days, her dad trained her to stop calling me Mom. But your story gave me hope. I was in her life from ages 8-10 daily and occasionally over this past year. I hope I made an impact.
Oxy, He lied and said he only bathed her when she first came as her Mom had not taught her hygiene. He refused to let me teach her. 2 years after she came he was still teaching her to bathe. But he didn’t admit it, and my lawyer didn’t want to go there. He also stated “What single dad turns a daugther away when she has a bad dream and wants to crawl in bed? Well she never comes from her room as she never sleeps it in it. My whole family knows for a fact that she starts in Daddys bed and ends in Daddy’s bed night after night. The only time she was turned out of it was when I slept there and then she was put in the second bed in the same room not her room across the hall.
CPS didn’t want to investigate. States that even if he is sleeping with and bathing her at 11 that is not proof of abuse. And they won’t question the child or investigate until she says that dad is touching her.
Shabbychic. Thanks for your support.
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geminigirl says:
Dearest Rune, kathy, and especially Oxdrover! Thank you all so MUCH! I think, after some 27 years, I am finally ‘getting it” This evening, Oxy, I happened on your post no.81, to Kindheart, “These people are not going to change. PERIOD.’ Your so right about constantly hitting your thumb with a hammer, and then complaining about the pain! For so long, I have asked “Why? Why has daughter no. 2 not seen me for 17 years, and never ever, allowed me to meet her 3 kids? Today I discovered a letter I wrote to her in 1995, pleading with her to let us bury the hatchet, and kiss and make up. I last saw her on her Birthday in feb,1993. I took her to lunch at an exclusive club I belonged to then, w had smoked salmon, salad, champagne. I gave her A$1,000 from my late mothers estate, plus mums gold bracelet, some matching gold earrings, a sheaf of spring flowers,and some Yves St. laurent perfume. After lunch, she hada swim in the club pool, kissed me on the cheek, thanked me, and I havent seen her since!. Three weeks after that lunch, I got an abusive letter from her saying I was an unfit Mother, and she didnt wish to se me again. I still to this day dont know what Im supposed to have done, but I do know she was having Hypnotherapy, and all I can think of is “False memory syndrome”She was also anorexic then. . I found a second letter which I wrote to her after the birth of her baby son,pleading with her to let me see him. That son is now 13, and I have NEVER seen him. She now has two other children. I have never seen them,either.
she lives with a very rich Jewish boy, whose mum gives her everything material, a 3 million home, cars, pays school fees, etc. david and I have been wiped off the map. My other daughter is really no better, she only uses me. she only ever rings me up when she is in trouble financially and needs cash, otherwise I never hear from her. I wrote to her over 2 weks ago to say the Mum bank is now closed, she reacted by removing me from facebook, and i havent heard from her since. she is bad news, her ex husband is suffering from depression, and 2 of her ex boyfriends had nervous breakdowns after they parted. She is BAD NEWS! this time, having the back up of you wonderful people, Im determined to stick it out, _NO CONTACT! I feel Deb is deeply toxic to me, I suppose I still love her, but I dislike my 2 girls intensely. {Not girls now, they are 43 and 45! Oxy, you are like a refreshing bucket of COLD WATER! and that water is the water of life, truth, and new hope! Thank you, I can do this! Maia. {geminigirl.}
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OxDrover says:
Dear Geminigirl,
Sweetie, it takes some ofus old bats a long time to get it about what we are dealing with because we DO love our children…we want the best for them and hope that they feel that way about us. But the good thing is that when we FINALLY get it, we don’t go back on it, and the peace seems to finally come upon us to STAY. The affectionat “love” that we feel for the “children” (to me) is gone, and I don’t miss it like I did the “fantasy” love I imagined they had for me.
I am done hitting myself with a hammer and gosh, how wonderful life is. You have been blessed to have your wonderful David and I am so happy for you. when God closes one door, Her opens the window to a new opportunity and blessing! (((hugs))))
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geminigirl says:
Oxy, Thank you once again.You are one hell of a woman! You are such an inspiration to me, -I guess if you can lick this and have a happy, serene and productive life, I can do it too! tell me, does it get easier? And is NC the secret? I find that now Im trying to come to terms with all the hurt,& craziness, that frozen memories are resurfacing quite quickly, so in a way its more painful, but in a good way, if that makes sense! Its as if Ive been suffering from PTSD for years and years.I had to leave my ex as I was severely bashedin the face, and hospitalised. A wonderful male friend, whom I hadnt slept with but who was in love with me, took me to live with him, and lovingly nursed me back to health. This was in1981. he was very rich, but I didnt love him, but Im very grateful to him. Whilest I was convalescing at his mansion, I was getting phone calls from Claire, saying,”Dads crying, Bentleythe dachshund is crying and getting thin, Pansy,{the siamese} is on hunger strike,y ouve got to come home!”{Emotional blackmail, big time!} Well, against my better judgement I DID go home, still bruised and shaken. The next day, Peter said to the girls, then aged 17 and 19, “Well have to knock Mum back into line, wont we, girls?” When I heard that, I knew there was no hope for me in that house of hell.
The girls jeered at me, refused to let me choose TV programmes,and when I begged deb to let me have her bed so that I wouldnt have to share a bed with peter, she said, “No way,bitch!” Two years later, in dec. 1982, i did leave him and set up in a tiny furnished flat. It was Heaven! Quiet, peaceful, no dramas, no trauma,{altho it nearly killed me to leave the girls, but they obvioulsy didnt miss me at all.} Six months later, I met my darling Davidthrough my landladys sister, Trisha. She had a match making dinner party for me, to meet her divorced neighbor, David, who was then 50. I though the was so gorgeous! he was a real gentleman, quiet, kind, with a sense of humour. he had the unit next door to trisha, and he had me over once a week for dinner. I noticed how homey and tidy his flat was. he cooked me shepherds pie every week,{it was all he could cook then!} Six months later, he said,”Now, Maia, Im worried about you ,I dont think your eating properly, and Id like you to move in with me, so that I can look after you”. I was against it, as I didnt want to be “rescued”, but he persisted. A year later, we were married, 21st july, 1984.he is the kindest, sweetest man, quiet,a gentleman. I didnt think men like this still existed! he is from new Zealand.Poor trisha died of liver cancer 6 months after she introduced me to David, Im forever grateful to her, I think it was fate.The girls were bridesmaids at my wedding and all seemed OK for a while.I still dont know why claire has rejected me.Love and {{HUgs!}} Maia. {geminigirl}
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Tilly says:
I’m jealous of you finding “David”. He is the only one on the planet earth and you got him!
Your Claire is probably a psychopath too. I just found out my daughter is one and I have gone no contact. ( yes NC is “the secret”). I know! Its DIFFERENT when its your kids….but you know something geminigirl?
Its NOT!!
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