PTSD, defeat and the victim identity
PDF When I was a med student, I studied animal models for human stress and depression. The best animal model of what a psychopath does to others is that of the rodent resident-intruder paradigm. In this model, males are introduced into the home territory of other males, they experience social defeat and are removed before they are injured. Repeated exposure to this situation produces a defeated animal who is chronically submissive and gives up without a fight whenever he encounters other males. Below is the posture of a defeated mouse.
The physiology of this defeated rodent resembles human depression very closely. The defeat state can be reversed with antidepressants. Defeat is associated with elevated stress hormones, immune dysfunction and learned helplessness.
I think it is important to know that the potential to develop the defeat mentality exists within us. In humans this mentality takes on a more sophisticated form. When defeated many people become enveloped by what I call “the victim identity.”
Identity or self concept means how you think about yourself and how you think others perceive you. Identity and self concept always includes some component of how dominant or socially potent we consider ourselves to be. Social status is another related part of the self concept.
An encounter with a sociopath/psychopath often leaves a person defeated in every sphere of life. The status, reputation, career, finances that took a lifetime to build vanish. The victim is left in limbo, not knowing how to put the pieces together.
It is in this limbo that the victim identity develops. A person who used to be financially well off and productive having lost everything now adjusts to that loss by defining him/herself as “victim”. This victim identity is further supported by the constant pain and anxiety the person feels. Why do I hurt? Why have I lost? Why am I defeated? I experience all these things because I am a victim.
The minute I say, “I am a victim.” That word victim becomes part of my self definition. There is a certain comfort in the victim identity. It helps a person explain and cope with their external reality and internal symptoms.
The danger in the victim identity is that it will come to be the totality of a person’s self-definition. Once this happens, the victim stops living, and is like the defeated mouse, assuming the posture at every challenge.
I challenge you today to consider the place your identity as a victim has in terms of your total self-definition. Is the trauma the first thing you think of when you think of yourself? Are you being fair to yourself when you identify with your victim status? Perhaps you have a good deal more living to do than your victim identity will allow?
It is important to be whole. That means the part of you who is/was a victim gets integrated with the other parts. “Victim” has to become just a piece of the puzzle that is you.
I confess that I am aware of my victim identity most in the company I choose to keep. I feel most comfortable relating to other people who understand psychopaths and what they do. If that also describes you realize that is a sign of victim identity. It is important to acknowledge these tendencies and balance them by having friends who are not victims or family members of psychopaths/sociopaths.
It is especially important to spend time with functional families/couples who love and care for each other.
Try never to take pride in your status as a victim or use it as an excuse for dysfunction. If you experience symptoms of PTSD, that is a challenge to overcome not a curse you are condemned to live with.
Ask yourself today if you really want to be like that poor defeated mouse.
For another opinion and further discussion of the victim identity see The Line between Victims and Abusers (although I do not agree with all Dr. Stosny says here).
written by Liane Leedom, M.D. • Permalink •
Jim in Indiana USA says:
Hi, jackie56…welcome. Glad you’re here. Glad your therapist seemed to “get it”. Hope you can get the house sold and the settlement done…and be careful “facing” him…keep yourself safe.
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OxDrover says:
Dear Nolife,
I’m glad you are here. I think most if not all of us were “defeated mice” at one point or another, but we are working hard to overcome that mentality. It IS difficult to do, but it is WORTH IT in the end! We can regain our power, we CAN regain a life.
I strongly suggest you read “Women who love Psychopaths” as it will answer your questions about WHY YOU….and you omay be suprised to ofind out that it is because you have so many good qualities and so much stlrength! Hang on! Keep comming here and reading and learnign, and I am so glad you are here, this place is a HEALING PLACE. God bless you, and my prayers for you.
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Jim in Indiana USA says:
Nolife…welcome. Rants are ok here. Take care of yourself, rest when you can, and rant when you want. You’ll get respect here…glad you’ve been reading, and you’ll find more friends here to surround you.
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bopeep says:
Dear Nolife….You do have a life and you should get more help…I know how you feel..believe me. It is hard.I dont know what is going to happen in my future but you managed to create such a big business…you are smart. My business (what is left of it ) consisted of about 16 employees…they all knew my situation and they have no respect for me.That has created an anger in me to prevail somehow…I just dont know yet. I also ALWAYS choose the wrong men. I am hoping to get insight on this website…it seems to be a big problem and I am finding out there is alot of support here..with people that not only “get it” but lived it and somehow actually survived it. I want to learn how too…You are right….NOBODY is worth dying over…living is the best revenge. Keep on researching here and get some professional help. You must be smart to have achieved such a big company! Pull out that strength and run it by us..We’ll help.
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Nolife says:
Thanks OxDrover & Jim
There is really no understanding of sociopath in Asia. It’s hard for them to understand what is going on with me.
I am grateful to Donna for waking me up from my “dream” about my ex. If it’s not for this site, I might be still in the misery loop.
It’s up and down for me, at times, I set goals to get my MBA, volunteer at Nepal, and go contribute in woman issues etc. But there’s lapses. I feel weak at times. I am one that believes anything is possible and that there’s good in everyone. I don’t know how to change that beliefs. I used to be such risk taker. Now, I have lost that fighter’s spirit.
Thank you both for the kind words
It’s late, and I should leave my office soon. Thank you once again.
P.S. News like Air France 447 gets me down. Sometimes I fear reading news, they all seem so depressing.
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Tilly says:
Thankyou LTL and Rosa,
Its so nice to come home to warm words and kind hearts. I worked so hard today, I am exhausted but happy. Catch the hugs I am sending all my lovely survivors((((hugs)))))xoxoxox Stay strong.
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Nolife says:
Dear bopeep,
I wish to be wise than smart. I do not wish to run this business if it has not been for my dad. I was more successful when I was working in Norway. But I have see this company from 30 to 170 and put a lot of hours running it. It actually hurts a lot of my relationship because my priority is my family.
None of my employees know about what happened to me, except for my PA, which I let go. I am sorry to hear about your situation. But most important is not to show anger in front of your employees. You have to stay calm and take back your command. Lead them, show them directions and let them know you are still in charge. If you are close to them, let them know that everyone makes mistake including you and me.
I hope you pull thru this period. I know it’s tough in USA right now. But I believe you are smart and strong enough to get thru it. Thank you for your supportive post and I hope I could return the kindness in time to come
Take care. Let’s learn together.
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learnthelesson says:
Nolife says
“To be honest, I am not that strong” IN POST ONE.
Nolife says in SECOND POST…
“I wish to be wise not smart. None of my employees know about what happened to me, except for my PA, which I let go. But most important is not to show anger in front of your employees. You have to stay calm and take back your command. Lead them, show them directions and let them know you are still in charge. If you are close to them, let them know that everyone makes mistake including you and me.”
Learnthelesson says…
YOU are stronger and wiser than you are able to see right now…it will take time and an abundance of self-love (which takes the least out of you) to give yourself your all. You were giving to the wrong people – give to yourself, slowly, steadily, easily…time, attention, goodness, smiles and confidence…we all do this for so many others and NOT OURSELVES…Self-awareness is strength and wisdom combined.
Nolife said:
” I have thought of ending my life to not feel the pain anymore”
So many of us have shared these raw emotions…and so many of us come to realize while that is one way of ending the pain there is another…more wise and more strong…making the choice to “end the pain” with the unbelievable power of our minds and spirits…CHOOSE to wake up happy…just say what the heck…and try it… when those eyes open just make the conscious choice to roll out of bed happy…skip to the coffee maker if you must ( laugh at yourself or cry of ridiculousness along the way) I dont care…the point is the CHOICE is all ours…we can choose sadness and disgust and all the negativity “Mr. Not So Wonderful” left us with or we can let that all go when we are ready and choose to live in the moment (without the losers memory in it)….YES IT IS EASIER SAID THAN DONE…but once we go through the process of loss and come out of the fog we can ALL MAKE THE CHOICE TO TURN IT AROUND…the power is ours in our minds and spirits. Our entire being is drained and bruised and damaged, but not irrepairable (sp??) just takes time and a WILLINGNESS to want to pick ourselves up and carry on. Life is worth living NOT BECAUSE SOMEONE ELSE IS IN IT OR ISNT, its worth living because it is a gift to each of us, one we get to choose how our actions and reactions are going to be….lets choose (as Nolife says) “WISELY”….
Choose to make and create happiness in your life. Its in all of our hands. I am going to skip across the room to the teapot now just for a laugh!!!
Hang in there Nolife, there is newlife waiting for you around the corner!! Take care!
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Rune says:
Nolife & Bopeep: Did you think that those men picked YOU? That they deliberately “acted” their way into your trust?
You both sound like strong, intelligent, capable women who are doing work and taking responsibility that is far more than most people would handle.
Some of these predators deliberately look for the strong, capable women, and they do a good job of PRETENDING to be trustworthy and loving.
Because they can lie so very, very well, we can’t see the truth. Even professionals can’t always see the truth.
I think the first thing for each of you is to realize that it wasn’t your fault. It wasn’t because you were weak, or chose to have blind spots. The book “Women Who Love Psychopaths” helped me understand so much. I have also been in management, and I have run large projects and carried a lot of responsibility. I know now that some of the men deliberately go after women like us just because they want to tear us down. Let’s not let them win!
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bopeep says:
Dear Rune…Thank you so much for the comment…again to have people who understand this situation is amazing to me ..since I got rejected by friends and family who didnt want to deal with my bad…but was always on my side when life was going well. I am sure these men sought me out, but I do have a weakness of wanting to be loved from my mom who is and always has been self absorbed and selfish. I strive to be the opposite of that, I strive to be completely different to my children and make them my #1 priority in my life. My mom cared about other people and how she appeared to them. My need to be loved left a window open for bad to enter. I used to believe that if I am a trusting, kind , unselfish person then the karma would come back to me…thats why this situation is so hard to accept. I , deep down , don’t blame myself. My big question is…as much as I want to change the way I am …it seems hard and in a big way I like the person that I am…I always try to do good things for others…so how do I harden and not compromise that part.
I am still a hair away from losing my business, my home, my other home, my car (he had it set up in the corp. so I would lose that too!) Even though I am suppose to move my family into his home…I do have plan B in the works…but that will take time because I am going to have to hide money. Did any of you lose everything already? How do you survive that? If I was alone there would be no problem for me with that..but I do have 5 kids…so it is hard. I am also in my late 40′s so physically it is getting harder to work a million hours.I am amazed there are people out there that are survivors…God bless you..I am soooo happy for you. I will continue to read lots, and I will pick up that book. I hope to be writing here someday as a survivor. I cant believe with all the talk shows on tv…nobody does a story on victims of sociopaths!!!!! Its way more devastating than most of their “horror stories” they cover! Thanks again…each word gives me a tiny bit more strength…God Bless us all
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Rune says:
Bopeep: I lost everything.
I am still here. I am glad that I can help you see your wonderful qualities. Yes, get the book, “Women Who Love Psychopaths,” and you will see for yourself how they pick us out and use us.
I hope you are able to move Plan B ahead. I will watch for your posts. If I can encourage you through this challenging time, helping you survive this predator, then I am gaining back something I lost as well.
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Nolife says:
Thanks Learntheless & Rune,
I know I am in a way better situation than most. I count my blessing that I have only my life saving swindled and got in a huge debt, which I have cleared most of it by now. I do not have any kids, but I am still married to him and trying to get the paper done. So he will not have any entitlement. He promised to do it because he is in the states but he disappeared on me again.
Anyway I keep myself very busy so that I don’t have time to think about what happened. I also stay strong because of my family & friends. I never let anyone see me cry, not even my ex. I always am bubbly & cheerful in front of people, and I cried alone by myself. I am not being a fake, just don’t want people to worry about me. Esp. everyone has their own plate of problems. Anyway in Asia, most of us do not show much emotions. This is our upbringing.
But I find that I am able to express myself freely here, show my weakness, not be ashamed of what happened to me because you guys won’t judge me. I thank all of you for that.
Hopefully, with this outlet to express my pain, I could really heal. I wish I could heal soon so I could truly contribute and be useful again.
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Rune says:
“Nolife”: I admire your courage and your strength in all you have done to overcome, and in finding your way here.
You said you are in Asia. I respect your privacy, but I traveled in Thailand and Malaysia and have some understanding of the differences in society.
The fact that you are a woman of such strength and courage out of a society that doesn’t generally respect women says a great deal to me.
I will watch for you, and I hope to see you making great steps forward in your life, and separating yourself from this pain.
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Nolife says:
Thanks Rune, I wish the same for you and the rest of the people here
Mostly to those who only read this website and suffer alone. Hope you can find help soon.
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jackie56 says:
Hi Folks – I hear the ‘why me?’ I have learned through the therapy exactly why me – I am active, intelligent, capable, high achieving in my career and that is exactly why – someone they can feed off. Chuck in my deeply hidden insecurity and longing for a loving relationship and its easy to fool me. The answer is – don’t get into any kind of close relationship until you learn how to guard yourself. My therapist advises I don’t get involved with anyone and drop all expectations of a loving intimate relationship – for a long time possibly forever given my age. Sad but safer – while I long for it I am vulnerable to the predator type. I need to feel contented with my life as it is and on my own with a good circle of family and friends to support me – to reduce that neediness from my childhood. Facing the reality of being on my own for the last 25 years of my life is sad but not as sad as the thought I might get conned again. I’ve learned the truism – ‘if it (he)seems to good to be true then it (he)probably is…’
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OxDrover says:
Dear jackie,
Your therapist GETS IT. I’m 62 and feel the same way, but am now moving on toward being confident and completely OK by myself. I think it is human nature to want a mate, and I had a great one for 20 years until his passing 5 yrs ago, but after his death I was so needy I was hooked by a P…it only lasted 8 months but what a ride, 4 months of bliss, 4 mo of hell, then another 4 months of grief.
ONE is a WHOLE NUMBER, and not just half of two.
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sabine says:
Jen 2008
OMG – I’m so broken up about your poor little dog. What a sin! It’s a very good red flag to watch – how people treat animals – I agree.
You must have felt so bad for your little pup – thank god you chose to move on so now both you and he are at peace….
Good for you!
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KATYA says:
I found myself being successful and lonely and exactly as you did, I fell for someone who turned out to be a psychopath. I am losing my mind, trying to prove to the court system that he is a sick and manipulative man. While his ex wife and daughter told me of all the lies and all the behaviors associated with the APD, they both refused to come forth to help. I have a toddler with this man. My toddler already once exhibited oversexuality and inappropriate behaviors toward women. Now that he has not seen his dad in 6 months, he is a normal kid. His dad wanted nothing to do with our child after I kicked him out since learning that he had cheated on me with at least two other women repeatedly and never contributed to the household, but took my money instead. Still, I loved the man and tried to convince him to go for therapy and to seek Alcohol counseling. I pushed him too far with my demands and as a pay back he filed a Joint Custody petition. I am looking at thousands of dollars, knowing that this baby is not of much interest to his Dad, and also worrying that he’d do something with my son, to my son just to spite me. Any suggestions?
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heavenbound says:
I feel terribly defeated and have that anxiety spinning in my chest and stomach and head. I don’t want to feel this way. I saw an attorney today and was told basically that the agreement that the p and I signed concerning our separation and divorce aren’t worth the paper it’s written on. I don’t understand, I researched the library (i’ve only started using the internet in the last few months) and got copies of local court papers, I used a real agreement also signed by a local judge so ordering, and came up with what I believed to be a legitimate agreement format and we put in our settlements as we agreed.
Since talking to the attorney, I have been going through forms for my area on the internet and I still see a legitimate document. All the attorney would say is its just not good. It has to be … I’ll never get him to sign a fair agreement again and a contested divorce with him (oh please, God, no!)… They will order him a whole lot more visitation and I can’t prove how dangerous he is to my son… there is so much more but I fear him stumbling onto this sight and recognizing who I am.
I feel like my little bubble has been popped and strangely I feel like I’ve just spent a day with the p. One of my low days i guess. I feel like the mouse in the picture above.
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skylar says:
http://www.brothersbloom.com/
click on “video” and then on “card trick”
I just got this movie and will watch it tomorrow. I can’t wait. It’s about us, only this time WE WIN.
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heavenbound says:
I’m sorry to say I have no sound on my computer and don’t have a clue what is being said.:( But you said “only this time WE WIN.” That sounds really good to me. I’ll try to pull it up on my sons computer tomorrow. Thanks for responding to me Skylar.
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geminigirl says:
Dearest heavenbound, Im not sure that I understand your situation and probably cant be of much help in the legal sense, but I just wanted you to know something. That something is that you are not alone with your friends on LF. Weve all been there and suffered various degrees of torture from our narcs and Ps. I want you to know that Im praying hard for you, darling, and sending you the biggest HUG! Try not to spin your wheels, have a bubble bath, drink some wine, eat some chocs. ALL THIS WILL PASS. These evil beings seem to be winning, but they NEVER win in the long run, and they are NEVER happy.So, dont feel low,God loves you, and so do we!! Love,{{HUGS!!!}} gem.XX
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heavenbound says:
Geminigirl,
I wish I could print your post. I was really feeling sorry for myself and shut my computer down. I started praying “I don’t know what’s wrong with me Lord, I guess I’m being selfish” before I could finish I found myself turning the computer back on and there you were. I started crying, which is a good thing(i don’t need my bottle blowing, it was getting full!) Thank you so much, I really need your prayers! You are my angel from God. I needed that hug also thank you. I will try not to spin my wheels, which is what I was starting to do. A glass of wine and a bubble bath may be just what I need! Thank you for the reminder that this will pass and God does love me. Sometimes I forget that they won’t win in the long run.
Thank you Geminigirl, I needed every word you said. I can’t thank you enough for you kindness! Please remember my boys is prayer as well. I only share one with the P but I’m pretty sure my oldest’s father is an N, so we could all use a prayer. Thank you so very very much! I will remember you in my prayers as well!
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geminigirl says:
Your very welcome, sweetheart! Im so glad you feel a little better! I will go on praying for you, and your boys. “All things work together for good, to those who love God,{you} and who are called according to his purpose”. ALL THINGS!!
God has it all under control, so hand it all over to Him,who is able to do”more abundantly and above all we can ask or think, according to His great and precious promises!!!”Sometimes when I read posts from LF members, God will almost “dictate” what to say to someone like you, a special person who is on His heart.You are that special person so who are you to argue with God? Much Love, and another big {{{HUG!!!}} dear heavenbound!!! love, gem.XXx
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heavenbound says:
I’m handing it back to Him! Sometimes I mess up and take it back from him and like now I have to give it back again! A constant circle I guess! I feel better knowing it is in His hands. “ALL THINGS!!” Yes that is right, Amen! I will not argue with Him! You are very precious gemini, God bless you! Love and hugs and prayers, heavenbound
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Isabell says:
Tilly,
I too was charged and arrested for a crime my ex committed against me. When I tried to defend myself, I was threatened, and our children were threatened, if I didn’t do exactly as he said. The courts basically had a stance that I was guilty until proven innocent. To give you a better idea of the effect this had on me, my sister so often teases me saying, “You are so squeeky clean, you won’t even open a bag of chips at the store, until you’ve paid for them, for fear the presumption of stealing – integrity to the core.
I was threatened with the expense (tens of thousands of dollars) and subjecting my children to experienced going through a trail, as the primary witnesses against their father, which I could not justify in my mind (they were only 4, 8, and 10), so I pleaded guilty (at the suggestion of my lawyer after pleading not guilty two times.) Promises were made by him to right is wrongs. I was told the record would be whiped clean in a year after attending classes, which is not entirely true; my record is forever tainted.
My ex was then given sanction to stalk, threaten, harass, have others stalk us, destroyed our personal property, broke into my home, and when I called the police for help… he was listed as the victim. Violating my boundaries on my own property wasn’t against the law, especially since he was the victim on record. The authorities did nothing. The only witnesses I had were the kids, I was told they are NOT credible witnesses, and as such we would receive NO proteciton, as my ex only received a mild warning to leave us alone. The kids cried…”Why doesn’t anybody believe us, Mommy?” Even after my ex accausted me, and prevented me from calling the police, which is a felony, I was also warned that attempting to file a report for the purpose of getting a restraining order would make me look bad, and not him. We narrowed our circle, and lived like obediant robots.
Hind sight is an amanzing thing. I was given advice to get a survaillence system to surround my house. I was told to carry a video camera set for one switch away from record in my car. I could not afford the survaillence system (though I look back, and realise that I could not aford NOT getting it, either.) I could not focus on daily rutines, much less manage the process of thinking to always be prepared with a charged video camera set to record, as his acting out was unpredictable; usually coming after a long period of quiet, and even peaceful conversation, that lulled me into believing the nightmare was over. His attacks were always a surprise.
I struggle, even now, with this underlying fear, anxiety, or guilt when I do behave in ways that are proactive for me and the kids. (A symptom of helplessness that has it’s roots firmly planted in my earliest of years.) I had been brainwashed into beliving that self protection was a sign that I was guilty — a sick as this sounds, it is the reality I lived in. There are consequences for self protection…. like an even greater threat of some form of punishment to which I will be unable to protect myself. It’s a never ending cycle we’ve lived in for a long time.
Some say, “… then why don’t you just move to another State. If it were only that easy. I am legally bound to this cycle for another 9 years.
Though, I will say, the tide is turning. Even though I fear the reprocustions of striking the hornets next, and by that I mean, I am not only fighting my ex, but threatening his collective cult like family system and his new wife, who is no doubt an S and had been plotting with my ex to destroy my credability long before I knew that we were on a path of destrcution, of exposre. They conspire together, to poke, prod, and surround my circle of support, leaving me isolated and choked out.
I do believe they began to believe their lies against me, and fully expected that their alledged accusations against me about my behavior would find me out. Well, they were so far from reality, that it backfired.
Though I am still in our home (for how long, I don’t know), he took over control of both of our businesses (a combined value of a 3 million dollars), took our entire savings (nearly half a million), paid no support, and turned the entire (large) family system, the church, and our community against me and the kids. For a time, I did give up, and went into a deep depression.
What pulled me out, was each of my kids made me large cards that listed how they were feeling, what they admired about me, what they missed about me, and what about my depressed behavior scared them. My oldest daughter from another marraige prompted this. As painful as it was, it was an intervention of sorts; we all talked. And, I found the will to get out of my funk, see an old family doctor, got on anti-depressants, and anti-anxiety medication, and began opening up to a new circle of friends from a new church; who immediately rally’ed to support me with the kids activities, projects, homework, and even provided birthday parties for them. (They were used to huge family Birthday parties that ended abruptly, to just us six, without being able to provide a cake. These other families have been my angles. Only one of them understands what Psychopatholgy is about and she is a therapist. The other’s are healthy, loving people.
I had to allow myself to be honest about our circumstances, (I’m full of pride), to trust…and to receive the unconditional love and support these families have given us for the past 4 years. They swear our connection is an equal give and take, and that I offer them as much support, but if you put the generousity side by side, they have given us far more then I will ever be able to repay… and, for the first time in my life, I don’t feel guilty about the imbalance. They are teaching me, and my children that we are worth the effort.
Though, even now, as I prepare for the upcoming trial, I have to fight for the will to be strong, to be protective of me and the kids, to act assertively to sniff out the evidence, and to leave the fear of past threats behind us, or at the very least subdue them as a faint nagging in the back of my mind, to be ignored becuase… we are worth fighting for.
I anticipate at the age of 49, I will be recovering from this past 17 year ordeal (today is our 17 year wedding anniversary) for the rest of my life. I anticipate that I’ll never be whole, but more like swiss cheese and full of holes. And that, in itself, is also, ok — at least according to my current set of friends, who are more like family, then any family experience I’ve ever known.
Tilly…In short (sorry it took so long) I understand. I really do. My warmest hugs to you.
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Isabell says:
Rune..
“Women who love Psychopaths” Thanks for the post, the suggestion. I sorely need such information.
thank you.
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Isabell says:
Heavenbound….
::deep heavy sigh::: I hear you too. I worry about the same thing. How do they seem to know exactly what we are doing, where we are, who we talk to, what sites we visit? It’s spooky.
Even so… Take three deep breaths. And, then, breath out slowly. God is in control. Even if the ex gets more time, then you would deem appropriate, He (God) has a plan for their (your children’s) lives. He will reach them… I promise you. Even if the circumstances are not according to our plan. God knows what He is doing. (And, I say this with resistance, frustration, and years of being proved wrong for my unbelief.)
Faith is the substance of things hoped for, and the evidence of things unseen.
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one_step_at_a_time says:
I went to a service agency today to see if they can help me with some of my housing challenges. I have more work to do but I may be able to get my utility bill expunged, and possibly some help with medications that I cannot get covered.
on the way home I stopped in a 2nd hand store and looked around. I haven’t been in there since before the spath’s first fake surgery, and I found myself thinking of that – i was still loving someone then. And I got really angry. I think specifically at the spath for conning me. The anger was acute and lasted for about an hour.
I am always grateful for such clear emotions.
I like the movement from being shamed for what I have let happen, to being angry at her for her choice to abuse me.
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duped says:
I had that same posture, the one of the rat in the pic…the last time my ex S charged at me, hands out stretched at my throat. That was three years and three weeks ago. I held that posture for about 5 seconds before I snapped and started hitting back! Which I warned on multiple occasions would most likely happen if he kept physically threatening and hurting me.
I made for such a bad victim, I’m surprised he chose me in the first place. For the challenge, maybe?
While I do suffer from PTSD, I am not one to hold on to being a victim. It took me months in therapy to even admit to myself I had been a victim, always looking for the role I played in how I ended up in my situation. Even in the bail admins office, filing for the PFA (right before he came in to serve me the one he had gotten that morning while I was at work; citing that one incident I fought back as him being abused and assorted lies, to include abusing my baby, to bolster his case. When I cited the same incident in a different light, not knowing he’d been in prior, the ADA asked me to show how I hit. I started with my hands up in front just like that rat…and then smacked forward maintaining the posture. She believed me. Guess she’s seen that rat before.) I sat with the other women in there and talked about how we got to where we did. What choices WE made.
On the one hand, it’s important not to get stuck and overly identify with being a victim. On the other hand, if the shoe fits, try wearing it a bit before discarding it. I’m not suggesting wallowing in self pity. But I do think it’s important to accept that, all choices aside, no one deserves to be treated the way an S/P treats people. Some of the kindest, most giving, “good” people make the best “victims”.
Forgive yourself some mistakes and accept , in fact, that person made YOU their victim. Just don’t let them keep victimizing you once you’ve gotten rid of the grip!
Good for you one_step…sounds like you’re taking it as such!
Namaste,
Duped
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one_step_at_a_time says:
thanks duped.
i am having a hard couple of days. up and down on a roller coaster. got an xmas card from my (insert disorder here) father from him and mom. (mom obviously isn’t okay enough to do cards
boxed card. subtle. conflicted about the $100 in it. need it, will keep it. it will keep my phone and internet connection hooked up, which i need for work. but would rather not keep it. he is such a bottom feeder. throws crumbs at me, in every way imaginable. I am beginning to un hook from him. know that it is imperative. I look forward to the next exercise in the BETRAYAL BOND that looks at historical abuse.
not well today. sad and lonely and frozen. HATE my job right now and am sucking at it. which is scaring me, too. some extra guilt – like cranberry sauce to the turkey. little spiral going down.
underlying is that I have to make a few decisions about my housing situation. and i am having a really hard time with it. right now it looks like crappy option a, b or c. it is overwhelming.
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witsend says:
One step,
The holidays can really make us feel worse emotionally when we are going through an already difficult time.
Having the emotional roller coaster ride is something that is pretty common after removing the trama/drama from our lives. But it is certainly hard to even keep up with our own emotions from day to day. Sometimes it even feels like minute to minute that our emotions can change.
You have alot going on. And I think that you are overwhelmed. I can’t think straight when I am overwhelmed.
Maybe some of what I have done in the past can help you.
For me when I am overwhelmed I really have to STOP. Clear my head.
Then write down on paper a few prioritys. What I DO need to focus on. Maybe 2 or 3. No more. And I make myself only work towards what I listed on the piece of paper. In order. Number one being the first priority.
Often I feel just like you do that none of the options are good. But I pick the best of the options and work towards that.
Once you tend to accomplish one or two of your goals it is easier to move forward. Otherwise you stay stuck in that downhill spiral and feel like you are getting nowhere.
Baby steps….But steps in the right direction.
One step at a time….Just like your name.
One hour at a time….
Break it down so it feels more manageable. One minute at a time if necessary
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eileen says:
Hey Dupe,
Same feeling here – I think that a sociopath’s life is like a video game. Once they’ve won one level, they go to the next level. “Now I’ve got 3 girlfriends let’s see if I can manage 4″. “Ok, isolated, vulnerable women: done that, boring, too easy; next level: happily married woman/qualified psychiatrist/condolezza rice…”
And yeah sometimes they lose…or at least don’t win as much as they wanted. Well done for fighting back!
One Step – you should frame that gift!!
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one_step_at_a_time says:
thanks witsend. i have had to break it down to just a few things a day. woefully inadequate to deal with what must be dealt with in the timelines, but it is all i can do, so that i feel like i am succeeding.
the housing thing feels too huge. i did go to a service agency and talk through some options yesterday. the woman was wonderful, but i realized on the walk home i hadn’t really come away with some important questions answered, cause i FORGOT to ask – so, i think i have to put that on my list for today and call her back.
I lay in bed for three hours this am – unable to stop my mind from racing. i kept trying and i kept not being able to. i think i might just say to myself – this is going to be a bad day, and let it be. arthritis is flaring, so there is pain also.
I was expecting that christmas would be hard. there is no money for anything – I am not giving gifts at all. i had decided last year that I was opting out of christmas and would go back to my old celebration of the turning of the season – so i am not sure why i am so upset by my financial lack, possibly because i am so distracted that i can’t enjoy the season regrdless. i think it is that i know that things are going to get a lot worse financially before they get better, and it is frightening the hell out of me.
my grandmother sent me a little gift and i used it to go out and go square dancing as my celebration, it was really nice.
and yes, thank you re the roller coaster. I just had an email from a friend who asked me something about the spath – and I could see that answering cost me something, AND that if I got into talking about it it WOULD distract me from the ick of the roller coaster – and delay my healing.
and unfortunately this ick is part of the healing. i just have a really hard time with it as i have dealt with depression in the past and i so don’t want to go there – and this sure feels like it. but maybe this is temporary – just that when i see ANY manifestation of depression it scares me.
and i don’t need any more fear. i am frozen so much already.
okay – little next step – take work letter to the mailbox.
I have to do a lot of cold calling right now for my work – and it is is soooo hard. i don’t think it is the right approach for this part of my contract and i understand that the reason i am doing it is because the committee i work with are trying to pass the buck. and i am rebelling against taking the wrong action at the wrong time by the wrong person, as it might hurt the organization in the long term, and makes me feel like a stupid goof in the short term. it is demoralizing.
okay- walk through snow to post box.
thanks agian. i am outrageously isolated, so replies mean a lot.
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one_step_at_a_time says:
hey duped – which one? the clear anger, the money from the disordered father OR the night out sq. danicing?
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witsend says:
One Step,
Baby steps…You can do this.
Being isolated just makes your situation worse. But isolation is what many of these toxic people do to us. Weather it by actual distancing us from friends and family (miles) or by trashing our reputation (smear) so we can’t reach out to old friends.
The best thing you might do right now is vent here at LF about your x situation and try and not talk about it to your friends as much. Maybe try to talk to them about other things if you can.
I only say this because sometimes our friends get “tired” of hearing about this because they don’t really understand the situation to begin with. Lord knows it is hard to DEFINE exactly what you have gone through and put it into words that people who don’t “get it” can understand.
That is the case with my friends anyways. They care about me deeply but I know they don’t get it….So I have tried weening myself from talking to them about it.
Ick is a part of healing. But ick can be also the place we get stuck to long…. So try to do little things for yourself to de-stress. I know you don’t have extra money but do something relaxing for yourself EACH day. Read, take a bath, watch a program, take a walk….Something to stop your mind from racing. Something to distract you from thinking to much and becoming overwhelmed.
One minute at a time. Write everything important down.
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eileen says:
I think One Step has such a brilliant way of talking about sociopaths that I can’t imagine anybody being bored!
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icanseeclearlynow says:
one_step_at_a_time,
I think I’m about at the same point in my healing and recovery as you are. Hold on and remember your username..one_step_at_a_time.
I got an email from an out of town friend this morning asking me if it’s really final between the boyfriend and me. I told this friend the basics of what happened 2 months ago when I left the x N/Spath. Having my friend ask me that question NOW after coming to my senses and feeling all of the devastation, triggered the heck out of me. I choked up, started shaking and closed the email. I couldn’t even reply.
I’m also isolated. My family are all out of town. I have few friends. No one really understands. I lost my house, my car, my money, my job. What little I could do for Christmas this year, is homemade.
I’m also physically completely depleted. I have lost so much weight that I am a stick. I’m a nervous wreck. I have broken out in hives (the last time that happened was 20 years ago..the last time I had contact with my P-mom). I have anxiety attacks and can’t sleep properly, my stomach is a nervous mess and my arthritis has flaired up as well. So, I just want to say, {{hugs}} I know how you feel.
My ex N/S also has and probably still is (I have stopped my hyper-vigilant ‘patrolling’ of his online activity for my own sanity) conducting a vicious smear campaign against me – A lot of it on the web. He, like your ex, also got other’s involved by giving a twisted, projecting, character assasination of me to them (all of it a TOTAL MIRROR of WHAT HE IS) – the stereotypical PITY/VICTIM PLAY of the sociopath. This is exactly how he hooked me in the beginning as well…that and a few other tricks he had up his sleeve.
The added emotional violence of having of the Spath’s duped minions ALSO doing his dirty work is so indescribably shattering. Mine also ‘garages’ all of his exes and uses them. I have had multiple threatening emails and public message board threats to me, by one of his exes. I don’t know if you are still monitoring your exes online activity by proxy. But, when I stopped doing that, it actually lessened my fears. I thought that by checking on him and knowing what he was up to, that I would be safer because I’d know what he was up to. It was having a worse effect on me emotionally though.
It’s INCREDIBLY HARD to not check on him. I feel compelled to almost on a daily basis. He is all over the web like a shark in a swimming pool convincing women left right and center what a poor, poor, loving, hurt abused guy he is. I just thought I’d let you know that for me anyway, it DOES help me not feel violated and threatened when I stay away from anything to do with him. I try to picture him falling off the face of the earth.
As for being isolated, your mind racing and what to do about that. I have the same problem. I am currently living with relatives until I can get social housing, which I am on a waiting list for. It’s tough. When I feel like I’m going to go crazy. I do something constructive that doesn’t involve my brain going around and around.
I clean (small tasks..one at a time). I organize. I bake something. I played a video game with my nephew and I had NO idea what I was doing!! LOL The ONLY video game I’ve ever played was Pac Man. Any kind of hobby or task that involves your hands and isn’t too strenuous can get your mind off the bad feelings.
Go easy on yourself.
That’s what I keep telling myself too
Also, I have a hard time concentrating, so reading for any stretch of time is difficult. Most music is too much of an emotional trigger for me.
However, although I am more of spiritual person than highly religious, I absolutely LOVE inspirational, religious, and gospel music. My fave Christmas music are the most religious songs. They can be so healing to listen to.
I heard this song that is on Jewel’s Christmas CD (wonderful CD btw) and I wanted to share the lyrics with everyone on LF. The song is called “Hands” and I’m sure most have heard it before. I find it very healing to listen to.
Hands
by Jewel
If I could tell the world just one thing
It would be that we’re all OK
And not to worry ’cause worry is wasteful
And useless in times like these
I won’t be made useless
I won’t be idle with despair
I will gather myself around my faith
For light does the darkness most fear
My hands are small, I know
But they’re not yours, they are my own
But they’re not yours, they are my own
And I am never broken
Poverty stole your golden shoes
It didn’t steal your laughter
And heartache came to visit me
But I knew it wasn’t ever after
We’ll fight, not out of spite
For someone must stand up for what’s right
‘Cause where there’s a man who has no voice
There ours shall go singing
My hands are small I know
But they’re not yours, they are my own
But they’re not yours, they are my own
I am never broken
In the end only kindness matters
In the end only kindness matters
I will get down on my knees, and I will pray
I will get down on my knees, and I will pray
I will get down on my knees, and I will pray
My hands are small I know
But they’re not yours, they are my own
But they’re not yours, they are my own
And I am never broken
My hands are small I know
But they’re not yours, they are my own
But they’re not yours, they are my own
And I am never broken
We are never broken
We are God’s eyes
God’s hands
God’s mind
We are God’s eyes
God’s hands
God’s heart
We are God’s eyes
God’s hands
God’s eyes
We are God’s hands
We are God’s hands
Merry Christmas to everyone on LoveFraud
Peace & Joy in the New Year
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Kathleen Hawk says:
I just dropped in and read today’s posts on this thread. I know it’s hard to deal with the emotional stuff, but truly everyone here sounds so good. Being able to talk about it, put words on it, makes it seem almost like the music of this time of our lives.
I wanted to share something that helped me, when I was going through this emotional rollercoaster thing — swinging from grief to anger to anxiety to feeling tough — in the space of a few minutes, it seemed sometimes.
I’d take down a small framed mirror from the wall, get into bed, sitting up with the pillows at my back, bend up my knees to hold the mirror, and have a visit with myself. Somehow this is different than just feeling buffeted by all the feelings. I’d ask myself how things were going, and that was enough to start amazing conversations.
I think that the different feelings come from different parts of ourselves. I sometimes found myself getting into arguments, often really funny ones, with different aspects of me that were fighting with each other. (Like the part that feels like I’m stupid, and the part that feels like a victim, and the part that wants to be spiritual, and the part that wants the rest of us to get serious about the money thing, and the part that’s still romantically yearning.) Getting this stuff out into words, and taking all the bits of me seriously, letting them have their say, seemed to help. And often, they settled things between them, recognizing why each felt the way they did and finding compromises that worked.
I don’t know if this sounds crazy, but there have been periods of my life when I did a lot of this mirror-talking. And some of the things l learned about myself really turned out to be helpful to me and other people.
I’ve had periods of clinical depressions too, and for most of my life, I’ve been scared of any feeling that I fear might send me back into that. In recovering from this relationship with the sociopath, I found another technique to deal especially with feelings that I really didn’t want to have.
That was to deliberately pay attention to them, and turn up the volume. If I had anxiety, I got right inside it and jacked it up, scooting around my mind to find everything that was contributing to it, so they could all yammer at me at the same time.
There was something about this that created psychological distance. There was all the yammering noise, and there was me that was watching it. I even found that I was capable of saying, “Okay, gang, take a break. I’m going to do something else now. I’ll get back to you later.” And just mentally walking away from it.
It didn’t solve the problems. They still had to be dealt with. But it removed the emotional charge from them.
These days, when I’m more… what’s the word? … maybe less fraught all the time, I still get triggered by things. Everyone does. And when it first happens, the feelings come up big, and it’s hard to see anything except through them. But I’ve gotten pretty good now at going, “Oh, what’s this?” And it does the same thing of creating psychological distance. I still feel what I feel, but there another part of me that’s looking at it. And it gives me the opportunity to pay attention to it, and then take a breather from it. Not resolving anything, but just not getting taken over by my nervous system.
I think one of the hardest things in the world is being afraid of how we feel. Or not wanting it. Especially since, I think these feelings are important messages from some part of us asking for attention. So blocking them or denying them is, I think, a bad thing. But we also need to be able to choose when we want to deal with things, even with ourselves. And not let our emotions be tyrants over us, wearing us down and making us even more vulnerable.
I read somewhere that our minds are like our crazy uncles. We have to hang out with them, but we don’t have to believe or do everything they say. I loved it, but I’d adapt to we don’t have to jump every time they bark at us.
Happy holidays everyone.
Kathy
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eileen says:
@ Icanseeclearlynow: if you feel the urge to look up the sociopath, tell yourself that it’s ok to have that urge but that it’s not very good for you. Find something else to do and decide to do that other thing first – tell yourself, first I’ll do that other thing, and I can always check what the f***er is up to later if I still want to.
Anyway you can’t really know what they’re up to from what they say or write…they’re always lying…so shallow and manipulative…
One step, you sound like you’re doing everything that needs to be done, or at least a fair share – including the work-related phonecalls and posting the letter…it may feel like a pain in the neck at the moment but you’re doing it anyway, so that’s great, well done!
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OxDrover says:
Happy Holidays, Kathy!
glad you stopped by and hope all is well with you! This article is a good one, and one of my ‘favorite” on LF. I am so glad to see that the new people here hve started to go back through the archives and bring up some of the “good old articles” and that is the name of the game, to read them all so that the ones that will speak to you TODAY are read, and then I try to go back and re-read some of them because the ones that might not have spoken to me a month or six months ago, DO speak to me today because I have grown in the meantime.
It is I think like reading a poem, your moods or place you are puts different meanings to the same words, depending of how you are feeling that day.
Have happy holidays and CELEBRATE our FREEDOM! (((hugs)))
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one_step_at_a_time says:
WITSEND – thank you dear woman, you got me through the day. slowly but surely things unraveled a bit, and I got some of the crappy part of my work done.
I talked to a friend tonight – who is going through some heavy things this year, also. He is my closest friend in this town. He had been out with his daughter for dinner and had had some wine and their was a lightness in his voice that I hadn’t heard in a while – we played a bit. it was nice.
I did mention a couple of things about spath one and the Attorney General’s office lawyer who i spoke with – and within about 5 minutes i felt myself on planet pluto – just freaking gone…it was like i tripped off into another SH*TTY plane of existence.
not only do i not want to take my friends there – i don’t wanna go either.
call me baby steps!
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witsend says:
One Step,
Baby steps are still steps in the right direction….That is what is important. Good for you!
Just remember to try and do things broken down like this when you become overwhelmed. It really does make it do-able when you think you can’t possibly put one foot in front of the other.
I hope that you can find something to do before you go to bed at night to de-stress yourself as much as possible. It is so hard to function at all during the day when we don’t sleep at night because we can’t “turn off” all those thoughts running through our heads.
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witsend says:
Oh Henry….Are you out there? I want to know how it feels to be everyones hero? Are you blushing yet?
We love you henry.
I laughed at your dog story dragging in “his kill” on the other thread.
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henry says:
Oh Wit….Yes I am here and Yes I am blushing.
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one_step_at_a_time says:
ICANSEECLEARLYNOW …THE RAIN HAS GONE…
beautiful song, thank-you.
In my childhood home Christmas music was Mahalia Jackson:
this is an old one, she takes me with her:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....re=related
About Compulsoin: i am reading the BETRAYAL BOND, i am sure the library won’t mind all my pencil marks. It is speaking to me. I used to be a smoker. When i gave up tobacco, i took up carbs – in a very serious way. I relate to what they say about addiction in the Betrayal Bond.
It took me many years – about 6 to get through my compulsive eating. I was okay for years. Great for some. Last three have been hard , and GIRL, I CNA’T TELL YOu WHAT THE LAST FEW MONTHS HAVE BEEN LIKE! WE-HOO, I am looking 7 months pregnant. (that’s the stress fat)
anyway – that was a tangent
I see the anxiety i have had since a teen (which i squelched with drugs and tobacco) is very much in relation to the the betrayal bond (got a score of 14 out of 17 on the index). and that makes sense to how i am ‘coping’ now.
I swear, I am going to come out of this better. stronger. more grounded. and more knowing. I have tried to be a good person – beyond all belief, it seems like. And I have taken sh*t in the name of religious values. No f**king more. I need to stand for myself. I know it will take a while to learn (which means practicing) standing for myself but if I can believe in it, I can practice it.
Thank you for your care and sharing. I read your post over many times.
this really stuck me: ‘I try to picture him falling off the face of the earth.’ I immediately pictured the spath i tangled with disintegrating into dust. and it’s interesting, cause it was HER, not one of the pictures she sent me pretending to be someone she isn’t- but the picture of her. I am not a really visual person in terms of what i see in my head….but this image of her turning to smokey dust is a clear and strong image.
More about compulsion: (yah, wo has trouble staying on topic?
I have been thinking about the hormonal and chemical reality of anxiety. I know my adrenal system is messsssed up. I want to protect my body now. and stress and anxiety are killers. literally. so, when i see my anxiety go up in relation to the spath, i am watching and paying attention. i don’t want the anxiety. so i can’t do the action.
I understand the looking. I am compulsive online. period. it is about the freaking trauma and betrayal bond. I work online – just what i need, another addiction that i can’t go cold turkey (ahem) on – like eating. Ahh, moderaton has never been my strong suit. But you are right, it is not good for you. And good for you for stepping back. Keep stepping, keep practicing moving away. The more we do it, the clearer our heads get- for me, the clearer my revulsion is, and I naturally don’t want to go there.
I like eileen’s suggestion – iused to use that for food during my first years of sobriety – but I would WRITE or call someone, and if I still wanted to eat I would. But i would do the life affirming thing first.
Wishing you much healing and a growing sense of possibility and probability that you regain what you have lost and more. We have to use these journeys to grow. we must. this is it. we don’t get more years once we figure it out.
i’ll be around a lot over xmas. hanging with the LF peeps. we’ll talk again.
bestest,
one step
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witsend says:
Henry,
You deserve the title. I think you made it through alot of peoples worst nightmare of that “unexpected”, unprepared for visit.
And handled it so well….So blush away.
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one_step_at_a_time says:
Hey Witsend!
ty ty for the support. I am a baby in that way – a bit of support for my lolling head goes a loooong way.
detressing is a bit hard at my place- my apt. is toxic – literally, and i have the bedroom window open to be able to breath well at night.. it is hard to relax here.
but i think i will go for a walk around the chilly block and have a hot bath.
or a bottle of gin.
just kidding.
gin is vile icky stuff.
scotch is MUCH better.
baby step, whose, regardless of her silliness, not a drinker.
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henry says:
Ok If not opening a door to a crazy physcopath is heroic I will be hero of the day or week but let’s not get to carried away. It did end alot of emotional crapola I was hangin on to tho.
So maybe I need to trade my three weiner dogs for three pittbull dogs and next time he comes a knockin, I will open dat door~!
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witsend says:
One Step,
I am going to bed real soon. But I’m glad you mentioned compulsive behavior and how you handled this when you quit drinking.
I think almost ALL of the AA principles can help when dealing with the aftermath of an S/P/N. It is an addiction. And dealing with it as an addiction is the best way to have a sucessful recovery. It is great that you are familiar with all of these tools.
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