BOOK REVIEW: The Gift of Betrayal
PDF Dr. Eve Wood is a practicing psychiatrist and an author of motivational books such as There’s Always Help; There’s Always Hope and 10 Steps to Take Charge of Your Emotional Life. Her motto is, “Where there’s a will, there’s a way.” Now she’s written a new book that she wished was available when her own life fell apart: The Gift of Betrayal—How to Heal Your Life When Your World Explodes, available in the Lovefraud Store.
Dr. Wood’s husband of 27 years betrayed her. For legal reasons, she doesn’t tell exactly what he did, except to say the magnitude of the betrayal was truly shocking and she could have died. Reading through the lines, it sounds like she was involved with a sociopath, and we all know what that’s like.
So what was she to do? Dr. Wood believes what she wrote in her other books, and decided that she wanted to heal, move forward and build a new life. She writes:
“You have a choice. You can see this betrayal as a curse or a blessing. You can make it about him, or you can make it about you. You can be the victim, or you can take charge. You can grow or shrink. You can heal your life or shrivel up and die. You can choose light, joy and love … or remain bitter and alone.”
The process was painful, and it took time. She didn’t start out trying to forgive her husband. Dr. Wood writes:
“Most books about betrayal focus on forgiveness, on forgiving the offender and yourself. But I think the attention of forgiving is misguided. When you’ve been burned, you need to treat your wound. You must figure out how you got scorched in the first place and learn to heal.”
The book is divided into 14 chapters, which Dr. Wood calls “lessons.” They are:
- What is betrayal, how does it feel, and where can it take you?
- You have a choice: Do you seize your power or become a victim?
- Could you have been married to (or involved with) a sociopath?
- How did you get here, and what are you meant to learn from this?
- What is the role of forgiveness in healing?
- Trust in your ability to create your heart’s desire
- Take action to create the life you really want
- Slow down: Examine and honor all your involvements
- Take risks, try new things … and pay attention to how you feel
- Let your female friends help you
- Learn what men have to offer and what they cannot do for you
- Invite joy, pleasure and passion into your life
- Stay present to the gift of the moment
- Celebrate you newfound freedom, fulfillment and fabulous good fortune
This book is written for women who have been betrayed by men. Dr. Wood specifically emphasizes that if the man was a sociopath, the only way to heal is to leave the relationship. She states that sociopaths destroy people. However, she doesn’t talk about how to recover from severe psychological issues that may result from these relationships, such as post-traumatic stress disorder.
This book is for the woman who has processed the shock of the betrayal by the sociopath and is ready, however shakily, to rebuild her life. The Gift of Betrayal provides a roadmap for doing it.
The Gift of Betrayal—How to Heal Your Life When Your World Explodes
written by Donna Andersen • Permalink •
olderbutwiser says:
Betty quoted “in the end, we will find that our heart holds the simple wisdom and unshakable compassion we have sought all along.”
Thank you for sharing that and reminding us all that the power to heal is within ourselves. I too am finding it hard to let go of my resentment at being so ruthlessly used and betrayed by someone I loved. I feel like 10 years of my life have been wasted on someone who SO didn’t deserve me. But as long as I am kind to myself, and give myself the time I need to heal, I know the pure heart inside of me will beat on, stronger and just as loving as always. I just have to keep reminding myself of that.
And your statement about actually benefitting from being betrayed by someone we loved and trusted brings up a very important point; something we should all remember as we struggle to regain our sense of self:
No matter what our respective n/p/s’ have “taken” from us, they can’t destroy our spirits unless we let them. And I for one simply WILL NOT allow that to happen. Because if I do, then I know I have ultimately betrayed myself. The strength and goodness and belief in myself, things that had been sorely tested but which are the very things that have helped me survive and persevere through all the pain, are still there and will not be destroyed!
So here’s to all of us…and to redesigning our lives, one brick at a time!
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James says:
The one thing about betrayal is that it is a door that is allowed to open both ways. Yes, our abuser betrayed us in many ways but we also betrayed ourselves. Whenever we allowed abuse to go unchallenged and knew it was wrong we betrayed our beliefs. Whenever we allow our trust to be tested and then also challenged by the abuser we betray our own trust in ourselves. Whenever we allow the abuser to take our own personal space away from us we betrayed ourselves by not fighting for our personal boundaries we did in fact betrayed ourselves.
In a way when we first got that feeling about this person that something wasn’t right about them and this relationship we started to betray our inner voice and instincts. The core feeling of being us, we then choose to ignore and therefore betrayed our own inner wisdom of our personal power. Yes, our abuser did many times betray us but we also allowed it and then explained it away and by doing so betrayed ourselves. Yes, betrayal should be a blessing for whenever one betrays us we learn more about who that person is. But whenever we betray ourselves we should also learn more about oneself.
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Betty says:
olderbutwiser – thank you, too! These lessons are SO tough and necessary! But when we can allow ourselves to travel from focusing on all the skunky things that occurred at the hands of the n/p, to focusing on what we are learning and how we each of us can be our best selves — that’s pretty great!
James – no kidding! That’s a hard one for me, “How could I let the n/p do this to me?” On some level, I KNEW…but I still accepted the behavior. It still shocks me that in choosing not to see what was happening, I betrayed myself. I pretended not to see what was before me because I wanted acceptance and respect from the n/p. I had needs for friendship and I was idealistic and very naive, and so I didn’t listen to my heart’s wisdom.
It’s important to understand what you’ve described so well — and I think hold it with a lot of compassion — along with making the decision to heal and become stronger, AND not allow the behavior into one’s life again. That’s honoring your own value: respecting and caring for yourself.
Why is it so hard to take care of one’s self when it’s so easy to take care of others? What makes sense is to care for one’s self AND others — but I do know for sure that recognizing that it’s frequently a challenge to pay loving attention and nurture the self IS a good clue to what helped set me up for the n/p. I’m beginning to really get it that we actually teach others how to treat us by how we treat ourselves.
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OxDrover says:
Taking money or “favors” from these people (psychopaths) is not a “GIFT” it is a DOWNPAYMENT ON CONTROL….
The truth is that they do NOT do anything “for you” that is not a way to GET CONTROL OF YOU. Period.
They use primiarily three things FEAR, OBLIGATION, and GUILT which spell FOG, and they keep us in the FOG to keep control.
They “give” us something or “Help” us in some way, there fore we are under OBLIGATION to stay with them and return the “favors” —-WITH INTEREST.
If we don’t return the “favors” then WE FEEL GUILTY.
THEY do NOT feel guilty for using us or lying to us, because they have ALREADY in their minds, PAID FOR OUR COMPLIANCE.
To me, that is why it is so important to be INDEPENDENT. I do not want to SELL CONTROL OVER MYSELF TO ANYONE for any “Currency”—money, “love,” or anything else.
As long as we allow them to “buy” us with money or favors, we are in the same position as a whore! I have finished with my share of “whoring” and they can keep their “gifts:” and “favors”—-!!!!! TOWANDA
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olderbutwiser says:
Betty:
Perhaps it’s easier for us to take care of others because so many of us who have fallen victim to these kinds of abusers somehow have the misguided logic that others are more important or “worthier” than we are. NOT!! That’s just the insecurity coming out. The need to be needed and validated by someone else is one of the traits our n/p/s honed in on right away and used to their advantage.
Even though a part of us KNOWS we are just as worthy, the inherent nurturer inside of us finds it natural to put others’ needs first and our own last. But perhaps I should only speak for myself here.
I do know that it brings me great joy to do things that make another person happy, more comfortable or less stressed. Whether it be my children, my friends and family, my significant other, even a stranger whom I encounter on a bus or in the grocery store. It just plain feels good to know the little ripples of kindness that I project into the world have a positive effect on our global energy level.
And most of the time, when I do something nice for someone else, that other person is appreciative. Not that we should ever expect anything in return for our kindness or thoughtfulness. But it’s just human nature to assume that people will respond that way.
So when our n/p/s doesn’t seem appreciative of our efforts, or their reaction comes across as insincere or perfunctory at best, why don’t we see that for what it is? Why don’t we see how selfish that person is being?
I know in my case, it was a slow but steady process of lowering my expectations. And I would ask myself “what are you expecting here? A medal or something? So he doesn’t seem to be thankful for the things you do for him. Don’t take it so personally. Just because he doesn’t throw his arms around you every time you do something nice for him, or seem very effusive in his appreciation, doesn’t mean he isn’t grateful. So shut up already.”
And then I’d end up questioning my motivation (when I’d never questioned it with other, “normal” people). Was I looking for accolades? I didn’t think so, but so many little things like that would creep into my brain and make me feel “guilty” that I seriously began to doubt myself in a way I never had before.
It’s a terrible pattern that starts small and only seems to reinforce our guilt-based need to redouble our efforts to garner the love and respect we are so desperately seeking from this person. So we end up putting ourselves even further down the chain of priorities. And so it goes……..
Learning to honor ourselves, love ourselves, put ourselves first and not feel selfish about it is a hard concept for many of us to grasp (and I put myself at the TOP of that list!) But it is imperative, to not only prevent another unhealthy relationship from engulfing us, but also to see ourselves for the truly beautiful people WE are. Cuz hey…….we ARE beautiful! And strong and loving and WORTHY.
We do teach others how to treat us, so I’m concentrating on immersing myself in a daily ritual of self-affirmation. Taking care of myself and nurturing ME. And that feels good.
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britneyhammer says:
Reading all of your posts are so strengthening to me. I have committed to my therapist to get on this site once a day because of the help and support I have gotten from all of you. I am a nurse and work night shift, private duty, for a beautiful 9 year old girl who is paralyzed(except for her right arm) and on a ventilator. She is so positive and cheerful-God has definitely put her in my life to remind me of all the reasons I have to be grateful.
But at the same time, I have FINALLY gotten my s out of my life (11 year relationship, then 1 year “so-called” best friends
(after he completely betrayed me and ran off with a waitress he met in a truckstop with 5 kids (4 of whom were taken away from her,etc)-knew her for a month or two-got married and meanwhile manipulating $$ and whatever he could from me.
This man can SELL ICE TO ESKIMOS,and after reading alot of your posts-he also uses PITY to get what he wants. I read somewhere that PITY is the most prevalent trait with sociopaths…I thought it would be manipultion…but after thinking about it I remember how many times he got me to feel sorry for him so 1) I’d take him back 2) Give him money 3) Give him medication to get high with that I needed for my self etc. etc
Anyway, my dilemna now is-I have him out of my life. I got to the point when I was READY and willing to do what I had to do to get him out and make it stick (I won’t go into details now) and I pray that all of you out there reach that point and SOON-because the s’s don’t make it easy!
SO now he’s out and all the kaos that goes along with it, but I’m very lonely-working night shift in a private home is a little isolating..and I signed up for a few classes that interest me at the comm. college that I sometimes miss due to my crazy hours and needing rest. I’m so happy that after 12 years the s. and his energy draining kaos is gone..I have a couple friends but I feel isolated and alone. I would love to have a partner to share my life with (when I’m ready) but it just seems so far from reality for me. Thank God for my 4 little dogs, they comfort me on a daily if not hourly basis!
I loved the man I always DREAMED he could be (which never existed,at least not for very long.) I feel used by him and I gave him the best years of my life. I will be 53 in a month or so and I’m not trying to play the victim-I’m just feeling very lost and lonely. Using as many resources as possible, trying not to get too down on myself,…any help you can give from people out there who have been through this would be greatly appreciated.
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Victor says:
Britney
Welcome to the Club! We are sorry you are a Qualified Member!
I don’t Know your Faith but I read it in your words! The Person you need is YOU! Give your best to yourself! It takes time to grasp the reality of these people. Give yourself plenty of time.
1. Read as much as you want here! One of the places to start is in the archives. Look for Forgiving your self for being HUMAN by Oxy.
2. Nothing YOU did was your Fault! We are Different from them in that we care! They Don’t! I know you feel that it was personal ! It’s NOT! They do this to whom ever they can Con! And once we get HOOKED it’s Hard to get FREE!
Your on your way to a NEW and Wiser and Better Person!
God Bless You! Peace
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Matt says:
britneyhammer:
Welcome.
I have been six months NC (no contact) with my S. I was with him 15 months. It feels like 15 years. I feel I am still crawling out of the hole emotionally and physically. He went through a lot of money, too, but at least I got rid of him before he ran me completely into the ground.
At this point I am still trying to recharge myself physically and mentally. I can relate to the loneliness part. Last year, this holiday weekend, I was taking S on yet another holiday away, which I paid for. As usual, he did something to ruin it and make me miserable. While I would love somebody to go away with, nothing is worth the misery he put me through. I’ve finally decided the loneliness will be addressed in time.
Besides “Without Conscience” by Robert Hare, you should read “The Betrayal Bond”. The book was a lifesaver for me, and a lot of people on this site, since it explains how the hell these creatures work, and how come we got involved with them.
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britneyhammer says:
Victor, Thank you so much for posting. I poured my heart out then drove to the store and started to cry- hoping that someone would write me back. So you are the angel God sent and I will hold fast to your words.
I don’t feel so much that it was my fault that this whole thing started-just maybe that it took so long to get FREE.
But as I was tearfully driving to the store, I hated to admit to myself that I missed him. WHOA!!THAT”S SICK! At times I felt so close and in his own limited(and self-serving) way I know he loved me-I just feel a big void. I didn’t expect to be this depressed and working night shift and not getting the proper rest makes me more emotional.
I thank God I did something very MAJOR that is keeping him from calling or coming over to my house or seriously, I may weaken due to the way I have been feeling the past week.
I really need all of you right now, you are my lifeline! I’m lonely and scared. I am accomplishing very little-I am not getting the simplest errands,etc. done.
I went through very intense pain a year ago when I found out about his new wife- I wish I had never let him back into my life-but I can’t change that-just learn from it and grow.
I’m sorry to admit that I miss him (or the man I wish he was)but I do. I appreciate ant and all posts!!!Thank you all!!!!
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Jim in Indiana USA says:
britneyhammer…glad you found this site. I worked the night shift for a few years, and was working it when the devalue and discard, betrayal, and divorce happened. Married almost 25 years to my ex-tox, divorced three years ago. “Crazy” for about 18 months.
Go easy on yourself. Take care of YOU. Time helps. Alone doesn’t have to be lonely forever…and, I’m going to be 59 this fall.
I feel better now than I have in years. It takes time…and help from those here…read and post when you’re feeling the need. Prayers and best wishes.
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witsend says:
Britneyhammer,
I think you came to the right place. The best thing about LF is that it is “open” 24 hours a day and usually you can find someone on line if you need to talk.
The personality disorder in my life isn’t a significant other.
I have had my share of toxic relationships though and I am about your age so I understand the feelings you have right now of feeling lonely & scared.
Just remember that the man you loved & miss isn’t the same man. You love and miss the “illusion” of who you were lead to believe he was, NOT who he really is.
Sounds like you have had all your “energy” drained by this toxic person. Best advice you will get from everyone here is no contact….
I have been alone for a long time and you can (if you allow yourself) get to the point where you do realize that being alone IS better than being in a toxic relationship. It took a long time to get here.
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Victor says:
I was not married to my P allthough it seemed I was chained to him. 7 years is just a short time at LF.
You know what Britney I am not ashamed to say I miss him! I Don’t Miss 99.9% of him just that.01 that I had in the begining Before I knew he was deranged and before I knew anything about PSYCOPATHS/N/S/ASPDs Cluster Bs! Now I took psychaitry in High School in the 70s and I know we did not have these discussions we have here today on LF. I listen to Z88.3 radio, I’ll see if I can find a link for you . point ,one of the songs says; Why are you still looking for love as if I am not enough? You Know who this song is refering to! Peace
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Victor says:
http://zradio.org/
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Rosa says:
BritneyHammer:
“I read somewhere that PITY is the most prevalent trait with sociopaths…I thought it would be manipulation.”
Britney: PITY IS MANIPULATION (Don’t ever forget that)
Anyway, Welcome to LoveFraud!
There are usually lots of us online at any given time. But, it is a little quiet here today, because of the holiday weekend, I am assuming.
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Victor says:
It was expressed Here that a person cannot have pity on someone and suspect deciet at the same time! I don’t know that that is true. Because I can have pity on a person begging me for change and still realize it is most probably going for another bottle or crack!
I am not about to change the Good person I am ! But the BOUNDRIES are not going to be pushed asside like before. I know better now! I friggin Hope!
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Tilly says:
Victor:
“I know better now! I friggin Hope!” Me too !! That is the reason I am on here…to get my masters in psychopathy so it never ever HAPPENS AGAIN!!
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Tilly says:
ROSA:
” PITY IS MANIPULATION (Don’t ever forget that)”.
Please REMIND me of this FACT every day of my life! My paraplegic psychopath mother groomed me from five years old to respond to this manipulation. (Coupled with a good dash of guilt!)
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Tilly says:
BritneyHammer:
Welcome! I missed being tortured for the last six months too! But it wasn’t until the last week I realized it was his empty fakeness that I missed…i.e. me projecting on to him my little Cinderella dream. The white picket fence had termites in it from the get go! I knew it all along, but I went straight into denial. Because I did not want to admit that there are millions of wolves (psychopaths) out there in this big wide world.
It wasn’t until I got HERE, I realised that there is an answer, a way out. LF is a life line and if you don’t grab it, you will end up back in the sink.
I have had lots of wake up moments, the last week. Even though I knew this stuff on an academic level, I couldn’t get it in my heart. But guess what?
NOW I CAN!!! AND I DON’T MISS MY COLD BLOODED REPTILIAN CROCODILE ANYMORE…NOT EVEN HIS FAKENESS!!
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Tilly says:
p.s. THE SOONER YOU REALISE THAT PSYCHOPATHS CAN’T LOVE,( EVEN IN A ” LIMITED AND SELF SERVING WAY”), THE SOONER YOU WILL BE ABLE TO ACCEPT IT AND YOU WILL STOP TAKING IT PERSONALLY).. go to the archives and start reading..this is urgent! This will help you get through this time better than anything else. I have tried EVERYTHING and LF is the answer.
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James says:
britneyhammer
So glad you can join us. I know that I too use this site as a “quick” reality check and a kind of “home therapy” program. Guess in many ways LoveFraud is set up for it. The information and support here can be enormous and does help each one heal in their own way. Really this site I personally promote more so then any other site. I for one love this site for it’s versatility open mindedness and hearts ready to share to all of those able to comprehend understand and relate…
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justabouthealed says:
I really liked Donna’s comment on May 18th where she said “What you are experiencing is normal with people who have been involved with sociopaths. That’s because you are normal.
In a normal relationship, a bond forms between the two people. The bonding process involves both psychology and the chemicals in our brains. Nature made it so that this bond is difficult to break — essentially to keep parents around to raise children. So even when you know that you should dump the guy, the bond –chemical and psychological — still exists.”
I know I begin to sound like a broken record, but I really do feel that a lot of people on this site (probably including me at one point) beat themselves up for being normal. In any long term marriage, there are daily reasons for getting a divorce. The trick is finding the reasons to stay married. That works just fine, if one of the partners isn’t a psychopath/sociopath/narcissist/whatever personality disorder! The ability to forgive, even forgive often. can be good….when you are with a GOOD person who is just going through a rough patch. So it seems that a lot of the traits we beat ourselves up for, are actually GOOD traits! As long as you are with other GOOD people. They will not exploit your generosity, your forgiveness, your tendency to put others first, etc.
I think THAT is JUST AS IMPORTANT to remember as to recognize what red flags you ignored and why, as Steve said in one of his blogs. We’ve been hurt and pain can teach us something. But one thing it should NOT teach us is that something is wrong with us. We ALL have weak spots. We all have times that our defenses are down. Now that a BAD person has used that against us, we can protect those weak spots, heal them, compensate for them, whatever works for you.
But there is not a person that does not have weaknesses. Our particular weaknesses made us more vulnerable, in SOME cases perhaps, to exploitation by a BAD person, but again, EVERYONE has weak spots. In fact, I think for every strength there is a weakness, and for every weakness a strength. I know I suck at directions (maps, etc). I’ve tried HARD to get better, no use, I still suck. Luckily GPS and cell phones were invented, and now I feel like the Straw Man in the Wizard of Oz, who finally got a brain.
And I got hurt BAD by a P/S/N. I’m not sure I’ll ever fully get rid of the vulnerabilities I had/have, but I’m very aware of them and I’m now very well protected in those areas!
I was just with a group of the most courageous, self-sacrificing people I have ever met. But all of them also have backbones of steel, have carried out their work in the midst of civil wars, risked their lives for others, will defend their point of view with gusto, but they are also so very, very kind to anyone who joined the group, battered and bruised, beaten down and who then lashed out in anger over “nothing”. I think perhaps the best healing of all is to be with a group of people like that for every waking hour for several days….I began to feel myself reaffirming my core values. I feel strong, energized, confident in my values, having been with people who so affirm everything I believe in. “Self-sacrifice” for those in need becomes a source of joy. If you ever get to view the documentary (just shown for the first time in the US last night) called Bama’s Journey, do watch it. It is uplifting. Affirms that relationships matter, not wealth. Dedication matters. It brings joy and fulfillment. It is about a man in Cameroon.
The more we affirm what we believe, who we really are, our core values, what REALLY matters in life, the less vulnerable we are to a P/S/N. Mine, at least, hit me when I was down, though not nearly as far down as he would push me…he dug quite a hole for me….and there were certain lines he couldn’t get me to cross, though I crossed MANY. One thing I’ve done, NOT BECAUSE I AM FLAWED, BUT BECAUSE THERE ARE BAD PEOPLE OUT THERE, is strengthen and get clearer about what I believe in so that NOTHING, NO ONE, can get me to violate those values, even if they offered me a billion dollars to do it. Doesn’t matter if there are good things I could for others with that money. All we have is our integrity, and if we give that up, it is a slipperly slope to being pushed down further than we ever thought we could go. The ends do NOT justify the means. For me that is one of the ultimate conclusions I had to face.
But never forget, no bad guy, no problem. He (or she) is the problem, not you. Next time you’ll know better how to respond, just being normal is not good enough to protect ourselves from these aliens!
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nic says:
Good evening everyone. I have not been on here in awhile. I needed to come back on to remind myself that I am married to a S and that he will never change. I read someone’s post about missing the S and I can’t seem to figure out anything I miss about him. I was miserable back then but I didn’t realize it.
I thank God that I didn’t have a son and that my husband left me. I don’t think I would have had the courage to put him out. See my husband wanted a son but we had a daughter. So his mistress ended up having his son nine months after our child and now I believe they are together with her 3 other children. I just feel like God has been watching over me. If I would have had a son my h would probably still try to stick around. He was financially and emotionally abusive and I just never saw it.
Today he came over to put up my air conditioners and look at my printer. He brought me a pack of printer paper (which I think he took from work). He made a comment that wow someone must like me to bring me a pack of paper…wtf????
I just had to realize again that he is a S. He lied, cheated, had a child, left me, etc., etc. and he thinks bringing me a pack of “stolen” printer paper makes up for it. I honestly thank his mistress because it is better her than me.
We finally came to an agreement for our divorce. I signed the documents today. I thought I would be sad but I am not. I told him to have his lawyer put a rush on getting the documents filed in court so it can be finalized. This is sort of a vent and all over the place. But I thank you for reading it.
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Tilly says:
Nic:
Son or daughter…doesn’t make any difference to a P. You should know that by now! What the hell you letting him in your home for ???????? What the hell you letting him “give” you things for????
You lost your memory!!
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olderbutwiser says:
Britney Hammer: You said it girl…….!!
“I loved the man I always DREAMED he could be (which never existed,at least not for very long.) I feel used by him and I gave him the best years of my life. I will be 53 in a month or so and I’m not trying to play the victim-I’m just feeling very lost and lonely.”
A warm welcome to you Britney….wish you didn’t have to go through what you did to be here, but you found the right place to begin healing and I’m glad your therapist had the wisdom to direct you to this wonderful resource.
I am a new member of “the club” as well and, also being 53, after an emotionally tortuous 10 year relationship with my own s/n/p, your words hit the nail squarely on the head for me. The anger, resentment and sense of being cheated out of the best years of my life is something that is really hard for me to deal with. I often say to myself “if only I could go back in time and change things so that I NEVER met him!!” But of course that’s not possible. Instead, all of us survivors have found the next best thing…..Love Fraud.
LF is a live saver!! So check in every day, as I am doing, read the posts, read the archives as Victor and Tilly suggest. And little by little you will start to feel there is indeed life after betrayal….because instead of falling back into the “toxic”, we all must work our way through the heavy stuff until we finally see our way clear to the “mystic” (thanks to Van the Man for that little bit of inspiration)
Get the books and read, read, read….Without Conscience, Women Who Love Psychopaths, The Sociopath Next Door, The Betrayal Bond. Spend some time with the words and then spend ALOT of time validating yourself, every day, and remind yourself how wonderful who you, are as a human being and as a woman.
But most of all, LOVE YOURSELF!!
xoxo from one beautiful spirit to another
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libelle says:
Dear Tilly, I am sorry to contradict you, but a SON means A LOT to P/S/N!! Nic is getting it right! The P/S/N-men just make all the same mistake for blaming the WOMAN for not having a boy! (they all need some basic biology refresher courses about Y- and X-chromosomes and WHO is giving them to whom…)
Nic, I am glad your daughter has a mother who sees the problem and who is validating the human being irrespectively of the chromosomes. You can be proud of managing the situation as it is alone; I would though recommend to limit the contact to the absolutely necessary, and absolutely no gifts! (in German “Gift” means “Poison”!!!!) He will use it against you!
I was also the first daughter of a N/S-couple, and got it when mom and dad were SO happy with my 5 year younger BROTHER, THE ONE AND ONLY MALE, BEARER OF THE NAME, A NEW BUD IN THE PEDIGREE! The males (father, grandfather, oncles, cousins) were all very happy to go shopping for the BOY (trains, electronics, mechanics), not so BORING dolls, clothing, color pens and so on. They discussed it openly in front of us girls 5 and 6 years old! I for SURE realised by then the appreciation of the RIGHT set of chromosomes! And it was normal for me to be put second to HIM, whenever he had a wish. Although my parents always said that they love all the same way.
My brother by the way has three daughters (from two wifes), and my father has already said to him: it would be SO nice to have a grandSON. I got very angry as I heard this.
My mom also constantly mentioned that it would be SO nice for me to have an OLDER brother; me as the oldest always thought that there must be something fundamentally wrong with me, being XX and not XY (it came never to my mind that the Y-sperms of my father were outsmarted by the X-ones, and that it was not MY fault).
Now my brother is the one with problems and he is as usual relying on the family, whereas we two girls do just fine. And after a long struggle with myself I can be proud being me, most of the time. I just have to remind me that these old hurting judgements were in the past, and that the NOW is the thing that counts. Namaste!
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BloggerT7165 says:
I would say that it is worth remembering that each situation is unique unto itself. So in some cases the gender of the child may not matter in the least but in other cases it very well may matter a lot.
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OxDrover says:
Dear Nic,
Congratulations on the divorce! I must say, though, I agree with Tilly, don’t let the SOB in your house and unless it is about court ordered visitation, and pick up or drop off of your child, I wouldn’t even speak to him.
Whatever “good” or “nice” thing he does for you, it is to make you obligated to him, before long he will be wanting to sleep with you again, too….and, “Oh, BTW, after all I have done for you”—-I just LOVED the STOLEN ‘Gift” ROTFLMAO!
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James says:
Nic,
Interesting but I been told that the male’s genes decide the sex of the child. After having my boys I told the nurse how we hope it was a little girl but she replied “I guess you can only make boys”. I also read someplace that this is a fact that the male genes decide the sex of the newborn. If I am wrong “sorry” but anyway if it’s true then you ex s/p/d/ex h is blaming the wrong person. He should be pointing his bony finger at his self and not you. But I sure he blamed you before about what is “wrong” with his life and of course you are to blame for it. How do I know? Well my ex s/p did this to me and once yell at me saying “everything that’s is wrong with my life is because of you!” Quote unquote.
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libelle says:
It is quite simple: Half of the genes are from mum, half from dad. As dad has XY-genes and mom has XX-genes, half of it would be X or Y from dad and X or X from mom. XX is female, XY is boy. So the chances are 50% for a man to have a girl or a boy. It is in fact slightly more boys, but they tend to die slightly more often as infants than girls and are more fragile than girls. The Y is just to determine “Boy” and has few other functions, so genetic abnormalities that are X-linked manifest in boys as the second X to temper the effect lacks. To get a boy FOR SURE one has to do preimplantation diagnostics. (this is done in India and China, where they have now HUGE problems because of TOO MANY males).
But the male N/S/P even get to blame the wives for THEIR OWN biology!!! If it was not so tragic, especially in macho countries where men blame women for being “defective” for “producing” the “wrong” offspring, it would be ridiculous.
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nic says:
Tilly, ox, James and Libelle thanks for the response. I haven’t been around him in awhile but it is hard because I have no one else to do those things for me. I could have paid a handyman $40.00 an hour to put in my air conditioners but I don’t have the money now so I had to let him do it. But I was strong and I didn’t hang around him while he was doing the work.
I know it is the male chromosome that determines if it is a boy or girl. I remember my husband’s face when the ultrasound tech. told us it was a girl. He wanted a son so bad and he wanted us to try until he got one. When I told him I didn’t want anymore kids he was upset. It so happens I told him this when he already had this woman pregnant. But son or not he has been trying to have sex and come back about 4 times in the 2 years we have been separated. I told him that he finally got his wish for a son and he replied “be careful what you wish for.”
He is coming to get our daughter today and I finally get a break on a weekend. No kids!!! It is funny that when he takes her they will have 5 kids to care for between the two of them and then when his oldest daughter visits from out of town that is 6 kids to care for. His mistress is 31 and he is 35. Wow to have that many kids to care for. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!
And he still wants more kids.
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OxDrover says:
Dear nic, I’m not sure why Ps want so many kids, and it seems like they seem to be that way. A friend’s daughter is a P, and her 4th one was born and they tried to get her to tie her tubes, she was NOT RAISING ANY OF HER CHILDREN, HER MOTHER WAS, and she said “No, I might want more kids some day”—her 5th was born in prison! She finally got her tubes tied. I think her kids are by 4 different men. The father of her oldest two had 4 kids by age 21 by THREE women. He was a P for sure, and his father as well—his father had 11 kids!
She is STILL not raising any of her kids, but she is SO proud of having 5 kids! GO FIGURE! heck, after labor and delivery on 2 I was ready to hang it up, I did NOT have fun with labor and delivery! LOL
But they don’t care for the kids emotionally or many times not any way.
I know another P male who has 6 kids (he’s about 30) and two women preg at the same time, now, one with TWINS! So when they are born it will make 9 kids, by who knows how many different women. WTF?
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Ntmare says:
I think the Ps and S s See on tv and movies and in the world what normal looks like. Maybe they marry and have kids to use as stage props to appear like a regular person.
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Ntmare says:
Also the more kids the more public assistance
they recieve. Could be the $$$$ . who knows
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Tilly says:
Nic:
Sorry but the reason they want more kids is for control of everyone and for narcissistic supply. I am sorry to say this but there is no way I would hand my child over to a crocodile and his nest of crocodiles in a billion years. And I would rather sweat it out with no airconditioner than go through the fires of hell that you DEFINITELY will as this saga unfolds. You have run from the monster right back into his arms. And handed him your child over to boot. I’m sorry to have to say it, but ARE YOU INSANE????????
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Tilly says:
P.S. There is not one darned thing “funny” about him taking your daughter. You are selfish to give her to him. Mark my words.
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Tilly says:
Libelle:
I too was bought up by two psychopaths. My older brother was groomed to abuse me, which he did with relish. I was the girl, I was the scapegoat. To this day they continue to give him EVERTHING ( ten acres of prime land, three houses (one burnt down by his girlfriend druggo so they built a better one for him), a huge recording studio (he is a druggie, alcoholic psychopath), pay all his bills, and I could go on ad nauseum. The story is disgusting…they gave me ZILCH and the worst part is they rub my nose in it EVERYTIME I see them. I could tell you stories of the three of them and their abuse that would make your ears curl.
But I believe a pschopath is a psychopath is a psychopath.
What I mean is they don’t see their children as PEOPLE!! i.e.as caring, loving, vulnerable souls that need to be taught how to love and have compassion and boundaries etc.
They see them as OBJECTS for their narcissitic supply. So they will bring this BOY” up as another psychopath.
Which my brother DEFINITELY IS!!! He is vile. Empty. The biggest user I have ever met. He told my parents ten years ago that he has 3 years to live! They gave him money to fly around the world…it goes on and on….
His toxicity seeps through to everyone around him. It is loathsome.
He has his PHD in music and has NEVER WORKED except to sing in the occasional “band”.
He has two children to two different addicts. One is dead the is nearly dead.
His present girlfriend is a retarded 18 year old. He is 61.
I rest my case.
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Rune says:
Tilly: Are you channeling me? I said the same thing to Nic months ago. I am so sorry to see that the child is continuing to spend time in the presence of the monster father, learning from the role models in the mistress’s family.
I sincerely wish and hope that whatever visitation got mentioned in the divorce papers is soon forgotten, and the man disappears from Nic’s life. But it can’t happen unless she lets it happen.
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Rosa says:
Tilly:
“Sorry but the reason they want more kids is for control of everyone and narcissistic supply.”
That is so true.
And they pick the one thing, motherhood, that exposes them for what they really are, because they are unable to bond with their own children!
The irony of it all.
If my brother’s wife would have never had a baby, I don’t think she would have ever been exposed.
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Tilly says:
Rune and Rosa:
“You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink”. Fair enough if Nic wants to be a victim of the psychopath and take his “gifts” , that’s her business. But with all the knowledge she has, it is just outright abusive to hand your child to a psychopath because you want to go out for the weekend.
I won’t read Nic’s posts anymore because I will be too distressed for her child.
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OxDrover says:
ONE OF THE ADVANTAGES OF CRS IS LACK OF MEMORY! ROTFLMAO!!!
Seriously Nic, I am going to have to go with Tilly on this one, I had forgotten that this was the guy who didn’t want to use a car seat when he picked up your daughter and that he wanted to give “driving lessons” to your 15 year old daughter.
BUT, that said I am going to have to BOINK YOU for letting him fix your AC and also for letting her go visit (if you had a choice) BOINK!
Also, I am going to have to BOINK Tilly for calling you “INSANE!” –Tilly, no name calling! She isn’t insane, she is CRAZY! BOINK!
Rune
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OxDrover says:
SORRY: It poisted before I was done!
Rune, if you are going to “talk about” Nic, and say “I told her so” do it to her face and say “I told YOU so” BOINK!
Really, though, Nic, any “favors” or “gifts” they do for us are always a down payument on control. they will extract a PRICE, maybe not in money though.
I HAVE A WORKING AC, but I will NOT be turning it on this summer because i am too broke to pay the increased bill. I know I could call my egg donor and she would GLADLY give the money to me, but at WHAT PRICE? I would actually rather live in a tent and eat out of a McDonald’s dumpster before asking her for a CENT even though she has plenty, after the horrible things she has done to me and the way she devalued me and discarded me when she thought she had others who would dance to her tune.
Maybe I am being “foolishly prideful” as she says, but no way I would take a “favor” from a person who has abused me.
I know it is tough being a single parent (been there) and it is miserable around toddlers and teenagers sometimes and you have one of each. (((Hug Nic))))
Anyway, you guys say “Ten Hail LoveFraud’s” and “sin no more” (((((hugs))))) and always my prayers!
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Rune says:
Nic: You may think I’m being mean, but I have been in your shoes, except I didn’t have a whole Lovefraud crowd helping me figure things out. I didn’t know what a psychopath was, even though I was married to one long ago, and dated one recently.
I have also been in the place of being “the girlfriend” of the father who is like your P. I was in the car when the P was driving 100 mph down the freeway, laughing as his daughters jumped up and down over the seats in the car. It didn’t matter what I said — in fact the more I demanded that he tell the girls to sit down, the more he laughed and the faster he drove.
We become CRAZY as we start to think that they are, after all, “normal” and can be trusted to do responsible things. They are not trustworthy. The fact that this guy has a child with his mistress should be enough of a sign!
I know you get tired and you want some “time off” from the parenting, but, Nic, the price tag is way, way too high. If you could see what I’ve seen, you would know. I tell you this from my heart.
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Rune says:
Ox-Drover: Watch it with that skillet! I was hoping that if Nic couldn’t hear it from me, maybe she would hear the truth from someone else.
It’s hard work, caring for others, even in our positions of posting here on Lovefraud.
I am so afraid that the next stories Nic will tell will be about hurt and pain and loss that could have been prevented, if she had believed us. Yes, we have to make our own mistakes and learn from them, but our stories here on Lovefraud are ALL about dangerous crazy people. When we think we can trust them, even for a weekend, with our precious children — if we have a choice NOT to . . . — we’re just fooling ourselves.
I understand Tilly wanting to step away, but I also know that it’s because she cares.
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OxDrover says:
It took me a long time to realize that those people who wanted to “give me things” sometimes had MOTIVES other than LOVE for me.
Then I began to realize that they would go back and demand that I do X, Y or Z, and when I didn’t want to it was “And AFTER ALL I have DONE for you!” Of course they never remember what YOU did for THEM, or anything else, just that they thought they “bought” CONTROL over you with their “gifts.”
My egg donor was actually “offended” the last time she offered me money and I refused. She looked at me “oddly” and said “You wouldn’t take it if you needed it, would you?” I repliled, “Nope, I wouldn’t.” Then, later, of course, she ACCUSED me of trying to TAKE her money. ROTFLMAO
She was shocked too when she had given money to the Ps and they didn’t DO WHAT SHE WANTED THEM TOO—-and I had to laugh when she was so amazed that they did such bad things (steal $24,000 and try to kill her grandson) because (as she said) “THEY WERE ALWAYS SO RESPECTFUL TO ME.”
Yea, right, did she think they were going to get control of her money by calling her an “old bat” to her face? You get more bees with honey than vinegar! Of course they were “respectful” so they could get access to her checking account! I’m the one that got frustrated and called her an “old bat” when she was pouring money to them! LOL
I’ve always supported myself, and will live within my means, not taking “gifts” of support from anyone. Not taking ANY favors from anyone who has ever abused me….those people cannot be trusted, Rune, you are right on that score.
I’ve made lots of bad judgments, and done stupid things because i TRUSTEd the people who abused me, wanted to trust them, but “once burned, twice shy!” I’ll paddle my own canoe from now on. I was a grown woman before I ever had air conditioning, and I think I can survive another summer without turning mine on rather than take anything from people who don’t love and respect me. I’m not selling my self determination to ANYONE for any amount of money.
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nic says:
Rune and Ox: You both are so right as usual. But I will never start to think he is “normal”. He is emotionless whenever I talk to him about the baby, etc. But I can’t do anything about him seeing her because it is a court order.
Rune: Did we date the same person??? When I first started dating him (before we had kids) he would drive crazy and laugh. My daughter would call and tell my mother but I would defend him. My daughter knew everything that was going on with him but I was the blind one. I would always defend his crazy actions. BUT NO MORE. I AM SO DONE WITH HIM. I can’t wait until the divorce is final. We can throw a cyber party.
The one thing I don’t agree with is that it gets extremely hot in our rooms and a fan won’t just do. The baby has asthma and I can’t risk her getting sick or us either for that matter so I had to have him put them in and I don’t have any regrets about it.
I hope you guys can continue to help me because that is what I thought lovefraud was all about. I don’t need anyone to pass judgement on me because I am much further emotionally then I was 2 years ago. I am proud of where I am at now but I know I have a long way to go but I will get there.
Have a good holiday everyone.
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OxDrover says:
Dear Nic,
Sweetie, I may bash and BOINK you with the skillet, but I will never JUDGE YOU! I do understand about the asthma for the baby, and I will give you a pass on the AC for that one for SURE! And, she IS his kid too so he is responsible for her health as well…
Yes, we will THROW A PARTY when the divorce is final!!!! TOWANDA!!!!
And yes, Nic, you are SOOOO BETTER!!!!! And I am sooooo GLAD!!!! Love Oxy
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Rune says:
Nic: Big hugs to you. I’m glad you stepped up to say hello, and — I don’t think we dated the same guy, but I’m starting to suspect that there’s more CLONING out there than anyone thought! (LOL!)
I know the challenge of trying to juggle all the issues and make the best decisions, especially with limited money. I understand the air conditioner thing — and you can choose to not buy into any manipulations that he might try to play around that.
But I still worry about your little one traveling with him or spending time with him. If he “forgets” or gets bored with picking her up, I strongly encourage you to just let it go, and let him fade away. If you aren’t getting in the way of his visitation, at least you don’t have to encourage it!
And, if you have a little time to yourself, I encourage you to use it to rest, relax alone, and meditate — inviting in the highest and best solutions to this situation for you and your daughters — the little and the big. Hugs.
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sotired says:
no contact is the only way to move forward with my life. it is difficult and he owes me money i will never see. in the last year i have had contact with him maybe 7 or 8 times. everything he talks about is a lie. i quit answering the phone.
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OxDrover says:
Dear Sotired,
You are SO RIGHT as well! NC is the only way that we can “win” against them. It is an ACTIVE thing though it seems passive, but we must stand like defenders of our castle, and keep the walls high, and keep them from breaking in, keep their sieige towers from over powering us.
It drives them bonkers too, to not be able to get a response. to knock on our “doors” and no answer.
The money you lost is “tuition” in the School of Hard Lessons but you got the lessons so whatever it cost in terms of money, in the end, I think you will find it was “cheap” at twice the price! Glad you are here, this is a good place to be to heal.
God bless.
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geminigirl says:
I know Ill never see the $10,000 I gave or lent to my P daughter,but as you say, its cheap at half the price to be rid of her! I see now that all I was doing was preventing her from hitting her rock bottom sooner. Now that Ive stopped baling her out, and falling for her tears, crocodile or otherwise, on the phone, she has lost her flat{condo] for which she was paying A$540 a weekrent,, as she lost her full time job, one of many as she either falls out with her boss, flounces out, or gets fired. her ex hubby now has FT custody of the 3 lovely kids, and he is MUCH the better parent so Im so relieved they dont have to jump between Dads and Mums place each week.
She has thrown away her home, her nice husband, her kids, her Mum, countless good jobs, good friends, her car, her credit rating, she is now 45, what is to become of her? she has done ALL THIS TO HERSELF!! And she still thinks she is superior,, entitled,being!{NOT!!}} Love,Gem.XX
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