Comments on: SSSP meeting highlights: The psychopath’s inability to love

By: pollyannanomore

pollyannanomore — Tue, 15 Dec 2009 10:14:37 +0000

Wow = this is awesome writing and testament to your extensive training and brilliant mind. So love contains many requisite parts. I had read the work of Nell Noddings who describes love as being like a DNA helix model with reciprocal actions between each partner strengthening the love FELT by each and subsequently the love GIVEN OUT by each. She describes love as being an engrossment with another person so that you want to empty out your own soul to contain that of the other and have them contain your own.

This love is formed of actions – gifts exchanged – perhaps doing a kind thing like making coffee or caring for the other when sick. The sociopath is solely engrossed with themselves. There is no opening of the soul because there is no true soul to be engrossed with so we are hooked in at first by being engrossed with a mirage that gives nothing back but our own reflections of what we want to see. It’s a terribly one sided affair. Only the healthy partner gives till they are empty – the sociopath just takes everything as his right. It’s still so hard to wrap my head around it all – that all that heartfeltness from me meant nothing at all to him – it was like ordering a takeaway while he stomped on my heart and ripped my soul to shreds because he was jealous of it. Or maybe he was just indifferent – indifference is perhaps worse.

Thanks – this is really food for thought – I am going to check out the link now

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By: Victor

Victor — Wed, 20 May 2009 12:17:34 +0000

In my reaserch , I have found Hope for the Mothers of at risk Children! But it is still in it’s infancy! For a mother to have the Time to spend with teaching the at risk child . It would need to be an Ideal situation. More a Family affair with every member helping out. We all know how difficult that is today! For a single mother trying to make a living and suport a family?
The reaserch says, that you have to teach the child to respect that others have feelings even if the child does not feel these , they can be taught what they are and to set the boundries for their own behavior in respect of others!
A Big DEAL was that punishment was worthless! That Reward for the desired behavior was the ONLY way to train/teach the Child!
And I thought having a puppy was difficult! Peace

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By: Tilly

Tilly — Wed, 20 May 2009 10:24:41 +0000

Victor:
Sorry, yes they do know right from wrong. I forgot.
And yes mine was a psychopathic drunk, addict too.
A drunk and an addict can recover if they have the desire.
A psychopath can’t.

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By: Victor

Victor — Wed, 20 May 2009 10:16:17 +0000

Tilly

I disagree, A Sociopath does!, know Right from wrong , they just don’t Care! The reason they don’t Care is because they don’t Feel for anyone except themselves and even that is limited! Proof of this is in how many Sociopaths skate under immediate detection . The MADD-OFFS and so many others Portray “Normal” human beings! While their Thinking is Parasitic! People are their Host, to suck the Life out of as long as they are willing !Peace

Mine had all those Qualities! Drunk, Addict, Violent! He had a choice ,He just could not see the Forest for the Trees! Peace

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By: Tilly

Tilly — Wed, 20 May 2009 07:54:34 +0000

Matt:
Bottom line is an alcoholic or addict can recover.
A psychopath can’t.
It wouldn’t matter if your Psychopath was an addict/alcoholic or not. He is psychopath which is a million times worse than a “dry drunk”. A dry drunk has feelings. A dry drunk knows right from wrong. A dry drunk has a conscience. A dry drunk usually has an insight into spirituality. They may choose to ignore all of these things, but all the same they have them.
A pschyopath has none of these things. You were with a psychopathic addict…i.e. a million times worse than any plain ol’ alcoholic or addict.

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By: Tilly

Tilly — Wed, 20 May 2009 07:13:56 +0000

P.S. From what I have seen of alanon it is brilliant and teaches you to weed out the real from the fantasy.

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By: Tilly

Tilly — Wed, 20 May 2009 07:12:14 +0000

Witsend:
A lot of people in prison say that ” they cannot remember killing/raping the person because they were in a blackout”. It is a common defense here in Oz. Especially among sports stars who rape women.
It is easy to pick a REAL alcoholic or addict if you are one. i.e. whether they are in recovery or practising/active or not.
It is extremely difficult to pick a psychopath. Especially, if they have been in the rooms of aa or NA long enough. They are professional at using people, talking the talk and saying all the right things and appearing humble, spiritual, charming, gentle and witty.
My ex p dentist knew he was an alcoholic but had no desire to stop drinking. Why would he?? He had enablers everywhere and his professional fraudulance and mask was/is brilliant. I have never seen anything like it! He was not in denial, but rather he didn’t see being an alcoholic as a problem. He always got his way because he lied and was a step ahead.
However the alcoholic psychopath IS vulnerable when he is in a blackout because he is not conscious of what he is doing. He is also vulnerable when he is hung over/sick because he can’t look after himself and is confined to bed.
The ordinary psychopath is never vulnerable. They are by far the most dangerous.
Of course you can’t generalise about this mental illness. Most alcoholics go through periods of being violent when they are drunk. Luckily they are not usually physically strong. But it is very ifferent with a drug addict. Violence usually can and does happen and their strength can be terrifying.

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By: witsend

witsend — Tue, 19 May 2009 14:17:44 +0000

Tilly,
I can not say that my husband was S/P. He was a highly dis- functiontional alcoholic. My father had been a functional alcoholic.
My husband was adopted (at 2 yrs old) and I wish that I knew more about his family of origin because of what I am going through with my son. I can’t determine the genetic factor if my son is predisposed genetically for personality disorder.

My husbands adopted mother though very well could be an N. If she isn’t she is what I would say is a “close call”.
She couldn’t have children and adopted late in life. She is one of those people that should have NEVER had children. She was very abusive, controlling and manipulative. She inflicted cruelty when she was raising her child on a daily basis. Consequently my husband did start drinking at a very early age. His biological parents were pretty messed up but it is uncertain (to me anyways) if he might have been better off being raised by them.

I agree with you that AA can be a dumping grounds for shady characters/con men & also court “appointed” people that the judge doesn’t know where else to “place” into the system. Living in a very small town, the local AA group, has its share.

I have to say though that our local AA meetings has alot of scheduled “open” meetings that invites family & friends of addicts to come to the meetings as well. I learned ALOT at these open meetings. And my husband has been dead for 12 years so even though I haven’t gone for a long time, much of what I learned there has “stuck”. AA basic principles can be useful for many issues other than addictions.

Alot of what I learned is still helping me to this day in dealing with my son and what is going on here even though what we are dealing with is a completely different issue.

You are also right on about addictive behavior being pretty predictable. Once you “get it”, the addict is very predictable. And so even though an addict can be violent or toxic in your own life there isn’t ALWAYS the element of surprise. Once you understand what drives them.

However I do believe that some people become very dangerous when you add alcohol. Especially as the addiction/disease progresses. And I would say that if you have a P/S that is also an alcoholic/addict that danger level would be even higher.

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By: Rosa

Rosa — Tue, 19 May 2009 13:34:04 +0000

Matt:

I have never had a dry drunk, but I did have the dry heaves.:)

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By: witsend

witsend — Tue, 19 May 2009 13:22:42 +0000

Matt,
A dry drunk is a very good indicator that the addict is going to be actively using again.

What was so hard to understand (for me) was that everything reverted back to the person being exactly as they were when they used alcohol/drugs BEFORE the usage actually began. It was so strange to see the old behavior back before the actual drug of choice enterd the body. The relapse was already in motion.

The one thing I did learn by being surrounded by recovering addicts in the program is that “humility” is the key. When you hear someone in recovery telling you that they will NEVER drink or use drugs again….That is a pretty complacent place for an addict. Not a good place to be. An addict is powerless over their addictions. And will remain so regardless of “years” spent in sobriety. Admitting being powerless is the healthy attitude for an addict.

So when you say what you witnessed with your x all the signs were there. It was just a matter of “when” it was going to happen.

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