The pathological self-confidence of the sociopath
PDF Pathologically self-centered individuals, such as sociopaths or narcissists, often project a level of self-confidence that is pathlogically tremendous. This can be a problem for others who, unlike the sociopath, will be prone to empathy and self-reflection, along with which come self-doubt and hence fluctuating, less dependable levels of confidence.
But the pathologically self-centered individual is often seemingly immune to self-doubt and can thus seem implacably, impressively confident. Why?
The answer is suprisingly simple: When your interest in others is principally, if not entirely, about what you can get, or take, from them; when you lack the capacity for, and/or inclination to, genuine, thoughtful self-reflection; and when the meaning, or purpose, of life is fundamentally reduced to the expectation, and pursuit, of continual gratification, you have a prescription not only for pathological self-centeredness, but its frequent concomitant—pathological self-confidence.
Think about it: for such an individual, it is mostly, and sometimes only, about what he wants. And if he knows what he wants, such an individual will feel entitled to it. And his sense of entitlement becomes self-validating—self-validating, that is, of whatever argument, rationalization, or manipulation brings him closer to his demand.
In other words, the pathologically self-centered individual has something very powerful in his favor—conviction. His is the conviction of his entitlement, of his right to have what he wants—whether it’s agreement, an apology, special attention, cooperation, sex, a favor, forgiveness, you name it.
And he wields his sense of conviction powerfully and persuasively—all the moreso if he’s also articulate and glib.
This explains how a sociopath can look you in the eye and blame you for something—even his victimization of you—and yet you struggle to fully disbelieve him. As I just noted, if he is intelligent and glib, he is in an even better position to erode your sense of reality. He can construct positions, however absurd and even confirming of his sociopathic orientation, that nevertheless have just enough superficial plausability to arrest your attention.
Once you’ve been disarmed, even slightly, his impregnably confident assertions, stemming from his pathological self-centeredness, can have a brainwashing influence.
You wonder if you’re not crazy? The “gaslighting effect” is in full throttle. It is disorienting, literally, to have someone present even a ridiculous proposition, demand, or accusation with unwavering confidence and certitude. And the disorienting effect is magnified exponentially when the assertion is simultaneously packaged in superficially intelligent, coherent, “rational”-sounding language. Confidence in one’s sense of reality can wane, and fail, under this combination assault.
This can explain why sometimes extremely intelligent, thoughtful and self-respecting individuals can actually be at greater risk of accepting and tolerating abuse. It can be a case of the exploiter’s pathologically inflated confidence overwhelming the more self-questioning, self-doubting individual’s reality.
(My use of “he” in this article was for convenience’s sake, and not to suggest that females are not capable of the behaviors described. This article is copyrighted (c) 2009 by Steve Becker, LCSW.)
written by Steve Becker, LCSW • Permalink •
Matt says:
learnedthelesson:
Just returned. It was very nice — he paid. Seriously, the nicest part was that the conversation flowed for over two hours — and know what? S WASN’T MENTIONED ONCE. It was just easy, free-flowing conversation. I’m still amazed that S didn’t find his way into the converstion after all the time and resources that S took from both this guy and me.
Personally, this guy is nobody’s fool and I suspect that he has figured out what S and S’s ex (before me) are all about. He had told me about 8 months ago that he had finally cut off the ex when the ex came looking for cash. I suspect he has figured out what S is all about.
I think this was an interesting life-lesson for me. That victims of a sociopath can actually spend time with each other and NOT waste time talking about a sociopath.
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ErinBrockovich says:
Endthepain:
1. Change your number again…..
2. buy a disposable cell phone and put it on a family plan….cost is about 10.00 a month. Give S the Number of THAT phone. Set up voice mail on the cell phone and stick it in a drawer and check it weekly or whenever for messages. You are not hiding your son from him, you are available by phone, you just do not have to be available via your Main phone number, freaking out whenever the phone rings thinking it may be him.
This gave me piece of mind.
Try to do some heavy breathing……With all your mite…try to keep yourself even!
Your a strong woman!
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learnthelesson says:
Matt –
Would you ever have thought in your wildest dreams that you would be having lunch today with this person!!!!! See how life is so unpredictable. Im glad it went well and flowed and you enjoyed yourself.
Tread lightly with this situation…but enjoy the newfound friendship and keep your RFS (red flag system) in check. There may never be any mention of him or there may be..but as long as you remain in control of exactly what you planned on saying and dont EVER veer from that you will always be able to put the S behind you in forging ahead with new situations and friendships.
Really glad it turned out so well today!
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Rosa says:
Matt:
Are you ABSOLUTELY SURE this guy you had lunch with was not sent by S to see if you would talk about him?
I find it incredible that neither of you spoke of S. It is like the elephant in the room that you both ignored.
Did you make plans to see him again?
Be very careful. You know these are the kinds of webs S’s like to spin.
I am very skeptical of these types of situations, because I’ve been in so many. It is usually a fact-finding mission for at least one of the parties involved.
If you both want to put S behind you, then you should establish that through dialogue. Don’t just assume it!
Be very careful.
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Matt says:
Rosa:
This guy is much older than I. He falls into the category of what I call “friend-lite.” More than an acquaintance, but not somebody I would pour my heart out to. Interesting to meet for an occasional lunch or a drink. But, that’s about it. No plans to see him anytime in the near future.
As a matter of fact, I told him if he wanted to venture over to my family’s house in Greece, he was more than welcome. I was curious to see if he’d rise to the bait and ask me if I’d been back since I took S there (and which S made a hell-on-earth for me). Nope.
If I had to lay bets on it, I suspect his usefulness to S has been exhausted since he made it clear to me that this economic collapse has affected him substantially (translationL the “borrowing” window is closed to S).
But, I intend to steer a very wide berth around the topic of S.
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Rosa says:
Matt:
O.K. I feel better now.
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usedabused says:
Matt -
This is ringing a bell. I did not mention my S’s name when I met his friend who had also helped him, after we split. But he was there for the S. And when I dumped him, he soldiered up, took care of things. Beware. I’ve scrolled up to find the embryo of this and cannot.
Endthepain -
Document, document, document. Getting a cold phone is not a bad idea, but make sure your son calls back. The goal here is not just a custody arrangement but a TERMINATION OF PARENTAL RIGHTS. You need to show he does not care. A call returned, and not returned back for a week or more, over and over, not doctors visits attended, no meetings at the school, you can do it. Get rid of him.
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endthepain says:
okay…I did the phone thing. I actually spoke with my ex S lastnight. Stayed strong and he was very quiet..just listened…after I finished he said he would think about it and get back to me.
Basically what I did was put it back in his lap as far as our son goes reinforced that my son needs consistency and that I am not trying to keep him from seeing him just that he needs to get his act together before he does…get a job a place to live..figure out ehat state he is going to live in for gods sakes and that this is on him and he needs to deal with this not his wife as I will not be pit against her again and not his mother as she will not be our go between. I didnt bring up thre child support. I told him he could call his son whenever he would like to andgave him the number.
I plan on using this as more leverage to document hios lack of caring…at the same time remaining distant enought to not get pulled under by him. My son wanted to call him today..so i let him..he told him he loved him and missed him..it was nice to see my son so happy to hear from him. (altho I know it wont last long) any advice on going forward….I know Im treading thin here with any contact…so help me..I already looked into the court to open custody up as well.
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usedabused says:
Endthepain,
You did good, just stuck to your son and no other issues. I’m not sure you can deny visits because of no job or place to live, is there anyone who could take him to a suitable location, bowling alley maybe, and let them spend time together? You’re right not to bring up support, they can have a $50k judgment and still the right to visit.
I’m worried too about contact. Need to write to set up a paper trail for a deduction, Matt’s method.
Just keep your phone records, if it’s a cell it’s all on-line, the calls will drop in frequency, hopefully.
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endthepain says:
usedandabused…thank you! the support is much needed : ) Yes I have actually put in motion for any visits to be at his mothers house…I am very close with her and she loves my son dearly..so that will be the only place it will happen UNTIL he can get himself situated wherever that will be and yes I kept it strictly about my son! baby starps..I know..but I feel good…as far as bringing up the job and place to live I did that more so he knows Im not messing around regarding support..he has to support himself and stop relying on other people as I will not lower the child support amount…I was subtle and got my point across
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usedabused says:
Endthepain,
You are welcome, glad to help. Mother is good, I was close to mine’s mother too but have not talked with her since I dumped him. Even though we had promised each other to stay friends no matter what, I really want no ties to him, no information going back.
It’s not your obligation to change the amount. If he can’t pay it, he needs to do a change of circumstances motion.
Good going!
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Stargazer says:
Talking about the self-confidence of the sociopath, I just watched a documentary last night called The Thin Blue Line about a sociopathic cop killer who manages to convince the authorities that his travel companion (who had no prior record) was the killer. In the interviews with David Harris, the sociopath, he was calm, confident, and cool, and very matter-of-fact. He could easily be the cool guy next door that you want to hang out with. My exS also had that exact same quality. What a magnet it is! With the looks, charm, and confidence, they will never be at a loss for new victims. Ugh.
It was my S’s birthday the other day. I deliberately stayed off the reptile site for the entire week, just in case someone started a birthday thread for him and brought him back. I realized that my #1 priority is to get him out of my life and keep him out. Exposing him takes back seat, because it could always bring him back in, even just by association.
Matt, who was this person you had lunch with? I miss so much when I’m off the computer.
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Matt says:
Hey, Stargazer:
This guy was a guy who lives around the corner, whom I became friendly with through S. He posted S’s bail when S was arrested and allowed S to move in with him when S was released from prison. He’s a retired attorney, a genuinely interesting and nice guy. He always liked me for being me, independent of S.
Anyhow, I bumped into him on the street a couple of weeks back and he invited me out to lunch the other day. Strictly friends. No romance. I suspect he’s figured out what S is all about. I also suspect that he is of no further use to S since he made it clear to me that he’s been hit hard by the economic collapse — translation — his borrowing window is closed to S.
Nice thing about the lunch — S’s name didn’t come up once.
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Stargazer says:
Matt,
Wouldn’t it be totally ironic if you ended up meeting the love of your life through S? LOL
Seriously, though, sounds like you really have some good boundaries about meeting new friends and keeping them at a friendship level. I suspect if he was still being plagued by S, he would definitely want to talk about it. Obviously, you are both moving on. Towanda!
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christie lee says:
Hello all…I am still dumbfounded by the fact that in each and everyone’s story and in every article I read, there he is. I have to wonder if they too have a site like this where they can swap stories, learn new methods and so on…now wouldn’t that be an interesting read!…”you should have seen the look on her face, and you know she actually believed me.” he said chuckling. Of course the secretive nature of their existance would in all likelihood stop them from sharing about anything. I know that if I keep things bottled up, I am a wreck..Does the sociopath ever keep anyone abreast of the actual truth? Not nesessarily a co-conspiritor, but someone who may have the real story, and not even realize it. Picture this…the sociopath goes “home” and starts telling his tales of how he stole money from a crippled man and so on. Those listening would most surely be in a state of disbelief, wondering why on earth their friend would make stuff up. They may call him a liar, tell him he needs to get help, but what they will tell each other once he has left again is , Hooray!! In his truth they see only lies. If a sociopath were to actually be truthful, even if he knows no one believes him, does it revive/relieve him in any way? Just another manipulation, perhaps. If telling the truth causes people to call him a liar, he now can assume that he truly is a master.
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Matt says:
christie lee:
They know just enough to sprinkle a touch or two of truth in their lies. Silly us glommed onto that touch or two of truth and bought the rest of the lies.
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slimone says:
I have watched a sociopath tell the truth and have watched the other persons’ jaw drop. I think they may do this quite a bit. I think they enjoy the ensuing confusion they see on other folks faces when they, with pathological confidence, tell about one of their escapades. Whether the listener assumes it is a lie or not, the teller is reveling in his own sick behavior, because NO ONE ELSE’S OPINION matters to him a single iota.
It could be a kind of unconscious confessional, that is contorted by their disease. A need to purge. I frequently felt that the s I knew needed for whatever reasons to tell me the truth. As a weapon, a bludeoning device? I think in the ‘intimate’ relationship this kind of brutal honesty is used to undermine the confidence and balance of the partner.
In a more social setting, it seems like just another ploy for attention, and to reinforce their self-image as a self-made man or woman. Someone who is above the rules, playing god and making his/her own rules. Powerful beyond comprehension.
I once had a N give me the phone to listen to an irate and incredibly persistent customer of his. The man on the voicemail was telling the N how he ‘just couldn’t DO what he did…it was morally wrong…..bad business……inconsiderate…’ it went on for a good 10 minutes. This guy had called a dozen times, and was at the end of his rope.
And the N was grinning ear to ear while I listened, and I looked at him wondering why the hell he would ‘share’ it with me; as I would have been embarrassed like hell to share that kind of personal failure with anyone.
He is still married to an ex-girlfriend of mine. So we were not that close.
But he didn’t see it that way. He was ‘confident’ in his twisted world of winning and losing. And he had won. He had gotten the best of this other man. And cost that man hundreds of thousands. Felt like he just needed an audience.
Maybe that does provide relief. But from what?
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Stargazer says:
Christi,
Some sociopaths have the fatal flaw that they like to brag about their crimes. I recently watched a documentary about a sociopath who killed a cop and then immediately bragged about it to his friends. When he realized he was about to get turned in for murder, he immediately changed his story and pointed the finger at the driver of the vehicle, a drifter he’d picked up who had no criminal record (the sociopath had a long rap sheet). Don’t you know everyone believed the sociopath and the other guy got a life sentence? To watch the interviews with the real-life sociopath is to watch a master. He is just so smooth and convincing. He doesn’t act crazy or neurotic. He seems very self-assured and totally down-to-earth. You would never doubt for a second whether he is sincere. He sounds very believable. I think to them telling the truth is just incidental. Occasionally, grains of truth get woven into their stories, but it’s all the same to them. It’s just part of the story they use to exploit people. It’s pretty diabolical.
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newlife08 says:
Matt,
I am just catching up and reading about your lunch !!!
Goodness – you had the interest of everyone at peak levels!!!
Glad to hear you had a pleasant time – with no complications.
All these folks looking out for you – it’s sweet to see all the good stuff here among everyone – makes me feel hopeful ….
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apex_70 says:
hello,
this is happening to me right now, at this exact moment, as i sit here and type this. for the last 3 or 4 days i have felt about an inch away from having a nervous breakdown. i have never had one before but i know that this is what is happening to me. i also know it would be my body and minds way of shutting down to protect me.
i am so so very scared. i need help and i don’t know where to turn. i know i am a very sensitive person and i have neurotic tendencies but this is different. i feel disorientated, confused, my sense of reality is clouded, i can’t think straight. now i feel vulnerable when i go out and am among people in grocery stores and on the street.
i am in a strange city on the other side of the country and i feel cut off from everything i know. this guy is making me question my own sanity. he tells me i need counseling and that i am fat, then the next day he will say i am not fat, he has threatened me, basically everything he says is contradictory so i can’t tell what is real and what is not real.
everyone can be mean sometimes, i have experienced it, we all have, but this is different. it is so subtle and so elusive – it is like a mirage of reality and suddenly you are walking around disconnected from all you know and believe. i feel brainwashed. i am scared of his mind. i had a nightmare about him and i woke up with my chest literally bursting out of me like i was going to lose my breath. i have never woke up out of a nightmare like that.
the reason i am so scared is that i have known this guy for over 15 years, he is my cousins ex-boyfriend, and i never stopped to think about any of his behavior and now on and off for the past year i have slowly, very slowly pieced it together and i suddenly now know the truth. i think he knows i am on to him and that is why i am scared. i don’t think he would hurt me physically, but i am terrified of how he tries to manipulate me.
i always made excuses for him and bailed him out of so many rough spots and now he has other friends that are doing that too. but, although they admittedly know something is wrong they have not had the light bulb go off in their head like i have. i guess one day they will or maybe they won’t. i don’t know. but, i guess all that is important is that i know. and now that i know i can’t fake it anymore and pretend that he is just a funny, goofy guy that is always getting himself in trouble and frustrating other people to the point that they pull their hair out. he is a sociopath.
and when you are alone with him, one on one, slowly over time you can see the evilness in him. he has built a character and a persona for himself and i can see right through it. now he suspects that i am on to him and he is getting nervous. i would never tell anyone. all i can try to do at this point is protect myself and keep what i know to myself.
i have many questions, but my main one at this point is: how do you know if you are being gaslighted? i mean how do you really know? i am in the middle of it right now. it has reached a peak, it can’t get any worse then it is right now. please give me some comments or feedback.
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skylar says:
If you think you are being gaslighted, you are. There is no other feeling in the world like it.
Your realization is exactly what happened to me. When I saw what he was, I tried to stay, to gather evidence, but he became so evil that I could no longer stay and I ran.
It’s best if you leave as soon as you can. They are dangerous because they have no morals to prevent them from doing whatever they want. Only the fear of being caught.
Right now you need an exit strategy – fast.
Meanwhile stay very calm. Can you get someone from your far away friends or family to collaborate a story with you?
Tell them to say that they are in the midst of an emotional crisis or very sick and they need you to fly out there to see them right away. You just need a reason to get away so you can gather your wits. Realize that when you come back you must do it with a friend to gather your possessions and tie up loose ends.
Also, don’t do any planning from your phone or computer. Go to the library or a phone booth. Most Domestic Violence websites will stress this. Sociopaths are very controlling, so they often use surveillance or monitoring software.
Erase your history on your computer, don’t keep links, but make some fake history too, so he won’t know that you are erasing.
They like servitude so when you need to go out, tell him you are going out to get HIM something for dinner or a present for being so nice or something he needs or wants.
As to what is real and what is not: All the good stuff is not, all the bad stuff is real.
He sounds exactly like my Ex.
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kim frederick says:
Your physical symptoms upon waking up from your night mare, tells me what is going on is very very real. Your unconscious mind is smarter in some ways than your conscious. Listen to it! ALL of Skylars suggestions, above, are very good, and wise. Please get out of this relationship.
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alohatraveler says:
Dear Greenfern,
I know this is an older thread but I saw you comment about when you wonder “was it real?” Did it all really happen at all?
I can totally relate. I struggled with that question a lot post Bad Man. I wondered if ti really was me after all…. My nightmare went down in Maui and as I look around my room, there are a few momentos that tell me, yes, I was there but it does seem sureal at this point… but I am over 4 years out.
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OxDrover says:
Dear Greenfern,
There is a link on the left side of the page about how to leave a psychopath/sociopath. Read that and learn from it. One thing is do NOT give him notice that you plan to go. Just DO IT! and Be careful. As he sees you slip out of his control, he will intensify things to try to hook you back in. Be careful, be safe, and BE STRONG for yourself! ((((hugs)))) and God bless.
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kim frederick says:
Just going back and reading the archives. I wasn’t here for this one. Very timely, indeed. I think what amazes me most is the P/S/N’s inability to SEE themselves. They have no self reflection. This is very interesting when you think of the vampire myth, as the vampire has no reflection in the mirror.
We all know these monsters suck us dry!!!
It would just be sooooo much more convenient to swat em, like a mosqueto then to have to go through the whole silver stake through the heart thing, and then to have to remove their heads….Sigh. It’s so exhausting!
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skylar says:
Oh Kim,
you have the wrong attitude about it.
Ask yourself, “what would Pinky-Doodle do?”
The answer: Remove their heads.
because it’s more fun.
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kim frederick says:
Pinky-Doodle would play with them til they were dead, get bored and leave their lifeless little bodies to rot. He would then cuss them because they lacked endurance (still can’t spell, shit.) But that’s just Pinky-Doodle. He’s funny like that.
Actually he’s really very charming….
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skylar says:
I think Pinky Doodle has the right idea…
amazing how our pets can inspire us!
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Wini says:
kim frederick, remember that vampires hate crosses too. The light of God, as well as daylight kills their evil. I always felt that I should carry a bucket of water as I entered work to drip on them (maybe it’s easier to carry a loaded squirt gun today) to kill their beautiful wickedness … “I’m melting … aaaahhhhhhhhh, she melted my beautiful w-i-c-k-e-d-n-e-s-s …..shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh”.
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jillsmith says:
This article was perfect for me to read tonight. I have been mystified at my lack of confidence lately. The S is a very arrogant individual. It seems like he fed off of my confidence. I used to be one of those girls who seemed like she had everything going for herself. I made good, solid, sensible choices in life. I was a student body officer, a girl’s nation delegate, college grad at recognizably difficult university. I don’t want to sound like I’m bragging, because I’m not. I have horrible self-esteem now and think I’m not worth anything. When I describe the person I used to be, it’s almost as if I’m describing someone else, someone who died. I don’t know that person anymore, that’s for sure. He even talked about how I had all of these qualities and recently, he said they were “all gone”. The ******** had the nerve to say this to me, when he’s the one who reduced me down to this size!!!! Anyway, I used to think I was intelligent, but sometimes I wonder how intelligent I was if I was so easily duped by him. This article makes me see more clearly how I was so duped by him. He’s very intelligent and the fact that he had just received his PhD made me even more convinced of his intelligence. I think I just took everything he said as the absolute truth. When he said horrible things to me, I believed them. Even if he made up the most upsurd thing I have ever heard, I found myself wondering. . .there was and is no end to the madness.
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jillsmith says:
Edit: ABSURD, not upsurd. Oh goodness, now I can’t even seem to spell. How embarrassing. I seriously have been noticing lately how my spelling is going downhill very quickly. I used to be a great speller. See? I am becoming an idiot!
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jillsmith says:
Greenfern and Aloha Traveller,
I can totally relate. I often find myself wondering if it was real. I swear that if I didn’t have our son as proof that this happened, I would swear it was a dream, or a nightmare. It just seems too impossible, horrific and crazy to be real.
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jillsmith says:
Apex,
I think it sounds like you’re being gaslighted. How you describe your feelings is how I felt while I was with the P. I was also far from family and friends when I was with him and had just moved across the country for him. I felt as you describe how you feel, exactly. This is how I felt before the S in my life started abusing me. It all happened so fast, as I was only with him for 8 weeks. It was a very short marriage. I of course had to drag it on for years by going back to him somewhat recently. Anyway, the way you are feeling is just how I felt before he became physically abusive. I think these feelings were my gut’s way of saying, “RUN!!!”. Do you think your gut is telling you to run? If so, please run fast and hard.
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skylar says:
I was reading some posts from May on this thread. People asked if the P’s ever brag about the evil they do.
Yes, mine did. But first he will explain how he was wronged or how evil his victim is and how they deserve what he did to them. THEN he will go into detail about his ingenious plan to serve up justice. Guess, what? I RECORDED IT. He was telling me how he was going to punish the cops for “spiking him” when my neighbor (his girlfriend) called me in as a missing person. So she calls the cops and tells them that he admitted to killing me and having my body in garbage bags. They all show up, they call my phone, leave various messages, the shit hits the fan, Seattle police goes to my parents house they make a big deal about it and then, abruptly, the cops decide that it was a joke, so they leave. I gave the recording to the sherrif 2 months ago and he has not bothered to call me back. The cops were in on the whole “joke”.
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OxDrover says:
Jillsmith,
PTSD causes “injuries” (for lack of a better word) in the language parts of the brain…I got where I could not READ (no joke) not even a sentence, short term memory problems, etc. so a great deal of what you may be experiencing in feeling “dull” or “dumb” (for lack of better words) may be simply the symptoms of PTSD.
Rapid eye movement therapy is the BEST therapy I have found for PTSD symptoms—not a total fix, but a BIG help and fairly rapidly compared to just talk therapy (which can I think make PTSD worse at times.) I am also reading a book on relaxation and imaging by a Phd who seems like she knows what she is talkign about both scientifically and emotionally so don’t feel so “dumb” (or whatever the feeling is) I know it made me feel ‘better” to realize that people as bright and smart and educated as Dr. Liane Leedom and donna and others here were also “duped” by these creatures and “fooled” as badly as I was—so we are in good company. I bet you have noticed how “smarter than the average bear” the bloggers are here on LF.
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Twice Betrayed says:
Oxy: I did NOT know PTSD causes ‘injuries’ to the language part of the brain!!! Thanks for posting this!!!..as I am a writer. On an assignment for a national magazine once -I was talking with the editor…I looked at the word extrapolate and did not even recognize it for a second or so!!! Later I sat and thought- what is happening to me. I had other times I did this with other words. I no longer have this problem since I am out of the hell and pretty far along in healing, thank God!
As far as us feeling dumb because we got conned or duped>I read in Dr. Robert Hare’s book: Without Conscience that even he got fooled and he wrote the psychopathy checklist widely used to diagnose psychopathy! And…some of his staff got fooled too and they were interviewing the p’s to begin with. One female got conned by one of the male p’s she was interviewing…and started flirting back with him! So…hey, if they can get conned what chance do the rest of us stand? No need for us to feel ‘stupid’. I did…but not anymore. I feel RELIEF to be out of it!
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ErinBrockovich says:
I don’t know if it was on this thread or not….
But lot’s of us have been in the position of worrying about ‘her’….the new supply.
Thinking the S’s are now in a wonderfully fullfiling relationship…Think again….
This article is a good one…..
You think YOU are so special!
http://www.heartless-bitches.c.....cial.shtml
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blueskies says:
Erin that’s a great link, I have read it before and it REALLY helped, I dont know whether I found it through here… but oh, its good to go back and read it again, just to ‘top up’:)
People on the whole dont change their basic behaviour a whole bunch and S+Ps definately do not, its worth reminding ourselves.x
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OxDrover says:
Erin,
Thankis for posting that link again. It IS a great one.
One of the things that GRIEF DOES is to MAKE US VULNERABLE. It does this in several ways.
Even if you are not in PTSD, just “ordinary grief” puts you in a vulnerable spot, plus the STRESS of grief does a number on you too, so many of us, and THAT INCLUDES ME, look for a “painless” way out—-and another relationship will APPEAR to be one. Sometimes a person will “luck out” and find another good relationship, BUT it is a “well known FACT” (notice I put that in quotes) that a “widow” (and that also incluses anyone who has lost a relationship) is VULNERABLE for quite some time.
Boy O Boy! Was I EVER vulnerable! Grabbed up by ther first passing Psychopath! He was (I thought) going to rescue me from my loneliness, my sadness and make me feel like a princess the rest of my life!
Twice, in my case and in my son Ds (he was IN the crashh and was burned) the language problem and short term memory problems were SO PROFOUND and so IMMEDIATE that it didn’t take us long to realize WHAT the problem was. Literally couldn’t read even a sentence, and we are both big readers.This inability to read was almost total for several months, then slowly got better. We both read and read a lot now, but I do find that there are parts I have trouble remembering but can remember the over all concepts (I think) on most of what I read.
My word finding ability has not totally come back however, my spelling is still not back, and I find myself using “smaller words” when I write. I still have a LOT of trouble with remembering names and frequently can’t remember them at all for actors etc.
I am no longer any “good” at all in playing word games like “Wheel of fortune” and I was very good at that, and I watched Jeapordy last night for the first time in years and I would not have answered 1 out of 10 questions, where I used to be able to answer 99% of them. I still can’t do my “series of 100 numbers” repetition, and that was never a problem at all. so there are definitely some difficulties that were SUDDEN and very PROFOUND and noticeable in my use of language and retrieval of language.
There has been great improvement in the five years since my husband’s sudden, traumatic, and accidental death, but I realize there are still remnents of these injuries/changes in my way of processing language.
The major chaos and stress I was under during the year preceeding my husband’s death (my father was very ill) and after my husband’s death with the chaos of the P-attacks etc. I realize that truly I have only been working hard to recover for a couple of years and that’s a lot of trauma and stress and fear to over come in only a couple of years, so (pat-pat—–that’s the sound of me patting myself on the back! LOL) over all I ithink I have done well.
The NC is so important to our recovery I think because it keeps us from having NEW INJURIES.
If you will read back through a lot of the posts here EVERYTIME someone breaks NC they come back here in PAIN because of breaking NC and getting a NEW EMOTIONAL INJURY. It is like tearing the scab off the wound. It can’t heal like that!
Understanding “what is happening” emotionally, with the grief, the new injuries, etc. does help me some in putting it together and knowing what happened about my lost language skills and memory also reassures me somewhat, just that I’m not becoming brain dead.
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blueskies says:
Oxy, Its really interesting what you say about PTSD effecting the brain like that.
Since the D&D and within the devastation that resulted,I have found it really difficult to concentrate generally, but I noticed that I had began to stutter when speaking to others,quite makedly, and my concentration was shot. I am still finding reading slow and difficult still,I find myself re-reading the same sentence over and over again, but I put it down to depression and just keep ‘practising’.
But I guess the depression is part of the PTSD.
The stuttering was really weird though, never happend to me before, felt like ‘nerves’, but happend with my children even, so looking back it was very strange.
I had an interesting conversation with my Niece that ties in with this maybe?(bit of background) To cut a long story short, she is the daughter of my ‘imaginary sister’( I was told my memories of her living with us were false she was taken into care when I was young) and has been in and out of care her whole life, Her mother (my sister) displays all the signs of being a sociopath and I also believe some munchausen(sp?) symptoms.
Niece is an incredibly well adjusted woman now, I think being taken into care and having the support of counsellor and social services saved her life and sanity.
Anyway, waffle waffle, my point is: she was telling me that when she was a child she felt like she was living in a fog, that she didnt know who she was, which is very familiar to me, but at one point she LOST the ability to speak. Completely, for about 6 months, when she was able to speak again she only spoke in ‘spoonerisms’ – probably about 7 or 8 years old.
So does the brain shut down systems when under extreme stress (PTS), in order to conserve itself, and speech/language / reading is one of them… but it can be remedied right, she’s totally fine with regard to that now, and I am getting better every day… just partially brain dead;)xx
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Twice Betrayed says:
Oxy: you are so correct in this post. I am very sorry for your losses and pain. And for everyone’s pain here. I do believe tho, it’s possible we would never have learned what we have w/o what we have been thru. I think one of the keys to actually living is being able to take our mistakes and sorrows-and allow them to make us become better people instead of bitter and vengeful. And…that is what I see on LF….people becoming better, well and overcoming evil by good. Very encouraging and uplifting. For what are we w/o character?….well, we would be p’s….that’s what.
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skylar says:
TB,
you said it all. There is no way, no how, that I could have EVER understood what I understand today, without experiencing it first hand. There is no movie or book, no class or religion that encompasses the totality of this experience.
In it’s most basic form, the lesson I have learned it what it REALLY means to be human. So many questions I’ve had my whole life are now being answered: what is free will? do we really have a choice when every part of us is being influenced by genes and environment? What make people good or evil? What is sacrifice? How does stockholm syndrome happen?
If I had realized what I was experiencing during that time, I would not have been able to really experience it. (You may have heard of the effect of the observer.) The most profound part of it – the part that still boggles the mind – is the LIES. So much lying, for no reason, so irrational, so sick.
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Twice Betrayed says:
blueskies: “The stuttering was really weird though, never happend to me before”
I had that about ten years ago. Never happened to me before either. FREAKED me out. And then….it just went away. I am seeing now thru Oxy’s post that this is all caused by stress-PTSD. wow………I am so glad to finally understand this. Oxy…bless you for this info. LF is such a lifeboat.
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Twice Betrayed says:
sky: so painfully true.
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OxDrover says:
Dear Blue, Sky and Twice,
I just lost a long post to you guys, but anyway, will try to remember what I said! LOL ROTFLMAO!!!
We are DIFFERENT, we get more of some things (alertness becomes HYPER) and less of other things (language skills) from the effects of the SUPER-stress. Because mine was so SUDDEN after the aircraft crash, it was more noticable to me. I know that LONG stress of high levels (but NOT sudden) can also have a profound effect as well, so I think I have had BOTH kinds, but didn’t realize what was happening until the SUDDEN one happened. Just the suddeness of it madeit much more noticable.
I am sort of I think like a child that learns differently now, I hate the term “learning disabled”–I think these kids learn DIFFERENTLY—actually could they be either biologically wired differently or could they also be suffering from stress induced language difficulties? I think that might be a good question to have answered.
I wish I had known what was happening before, I knew about grief process and I think knowing about it DID help, but the arrogance on MY part of thinking that by knowing it, I didn’t have to FEEL it,was the part that delayed me. Not the nowing it delaying me, but my own arrogance that I could “over come anything” LOL
Learning about WHAT caused my word finding difficulty reassures me that it is “normal” and while I WILL BE DIFFERENT than I was, it is OK. I can’t do my parlor trick of recalling 100 numbers in a row any more, and I can’t remember every conversation I ever had word for word, (this allowed the gaslighting to work) but at the same time, they gaslighted me before the “injury” because I just could not emotionally accept that my egg donor would LIE. I thought she was just making a “mistake” so I woujld “forgive” the “mistake” without realizing she was LYING.
I hav emade adjustments to my lack of short term memory, writing lists, etc. but am no longer TERRORIZED that I am “losing it” mentally. I am just DIFFERENT than I was. Not so “bad” as before, but definitely DIFFERENT. I also stutter sometimes when I am having trouble finding a word.
I am no longer able to work in my profession because of the word finding difficulties so I retired back when it was at its worst. And, I can accept that my professional capability is no longer adequate for such a high stress job, and one in which memory is paramount in importance….people’s lives would be on the line.
But my over all IQ is the same in spite of that, which is strange to me, but has been tested so I know I am right on that. My judgment is also returning and in some ways I am much more “clear sighted” in emotional areas than before.
My hyper-alertness and FEAR has calmed, and I am more accepting of my changes and less anxious about them. So I am DIFFERENT, but that’s OK.
It takes TIME and WORK to understand these changes, and knowing that they are “caused” by something and fit a “pattern” for PTSD helps me too.
I am “obscessed” about learning about this in a scientific way, and knowing what is going on helps me a bunch I think. My curosity about causes and effects has always been high and still is.
NC though has been the salvation of my sanity, that and the validation I have gotten here at LF in a low stress environment of like-minded people who “get it”—-I am glad that by sharing what I am finding out is also helping others as well.
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Twice Betrayed says:
Oxy: “NC though has been the salvation of my sanity, that and the validation I have gotten here at LF in a low stress environment of like-minded people who “get it”—-I am glad that by sharing what I am finding out is also helping others as well.”
That is the truth, Oxy!
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