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This whole idea of moving to a new state to be with her boyfriend was purely selfish. He wasn’t going to leave his children behind and move for her. The ex wanted me in close proximaty because she knows I would do anything for our children, allowing her to abuse my kindness and dedication to the children.

She met my wife to be before I was was completely committed to her, and the ex tried to charm her. My new wife is smarter than that though. Then the ex told me behind closed doors that she wasn’t good enough for me (classic). The ex did not want to see me happily involved with anyone. She wanted me to be attached to her. She prefaced everything she wanted me to do for her as “in the best interests of the kids”, knowing that if I felt it truly was that I would give in. I did for a long time. My new wife really opened my eyes to everything my ex tried.

One day I was at the ex’s home using her computer and accidentally left her home with my email still signed into. The ex began to read my emails to my girlfriend. I wrote to her that “I hate just about everything about her. But I will continue to help her out until our divorce is finalized”. The ex went nuts, and had her classic emotional breakdown seeking pity. It’s all too clear now how she operated.

My children see therapists now. It is really more for my new wife and me to discuss the issues we have with my ex who moved away than for the benefit of the boys. The funny thing is, as much as these therapists can identify those who we talk about in sessions are sociopaths, many will not come out and actually say that.

My ex now refuses to communicate with me on most issues, but always through email and text (I keep it that way). She communicates through our oldest child as well, which I don’t appreciate since she is alienating him against me. I use our divorce decree, court custody order and a parenting consultant to keep her in line. You cannot give an inch, she will take a mile. she is never reasonable, everything becomes a negotiation, but I stand me ground. She is now attempting to convince me to switch consultants, claiming biasness on her part. I have exposed her lies to the consultant, so sure, their may be some biasness. But this is how they work. Once someone is on to their games, lies and methods of manipulation, they attempt to extricate them from her life any way they possibly can. They just move on to the next victims. This is what happened with my family, the consultant, my kids’ therapist, our joint friends – once she knew they were onto her, she cut off contact completely. Fortunately, she cannot cut off the consultant or therapist without a court order. She has requested to mediate this with me, but I gave conditions of her paying for the mediation and that my wife be present, as mediation is futile with this people. It is a zero-sum game dealing with these unreasonable people. It has to be win-win for them.

This is a great website. I can imagine its so eye opening for so many. Thanks Donna

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Yep, I can relate. With teenagers in general, I think they try to make you “give up.” But with P-teenagers, it truly becomes a NIGHTMARE.

I laugh though at a confrontation I had with a normal teen aged foster son I had for about 6 months. He had NO idea how to wash a load of clothes or wash a dish. My kids were taught from an early age how to do house work, wash clothes, etc. I felt it was my duty to teach them. Anyway, the first Saturday morning when I got up and was going to show this young man how to clean a bathroom, he looked at me with widened eyes and literally said “BUT THAT’S WOMAN’S WORK!” It never occurred to him that a male could clean a house! For six consecutive Saturdays I spent ALL DAY with this young man to clean ONE bathroom. By the end of the day I was WORN out. Of course it would have been EASIER to do it myself rather than continue to work “with him” when he did not want to learn. I was SO FRUSTRATED with this kid, but after 6 Saturdays of this, he gave up and did it right, and from then on, I never had a problem with him.

After his death a couple of years ago I learned that in his married life, HE was the housekeeper at home, as well as working a regular job! So I did make an impression. But he was simply a normal kid who was troubled and didn’t want to do things that were “woman’s work.” He had to be taught, and he got it.

With the P son it was all about REBELLION against rules. Funny thing, though, my P-son never focused his rebellion on cleaning! LOL It was just about following ANY rules. Make a rule and you gave him a challenge, catch him violating the rule, give him a consequences, a bigger challenge….

I’m like SOS, where does the line between the balky egocentric teenager stop and it become a psychopathic resistance to control?

All teenagers to one extent or another think the world revolves around them. But so do psychopaths and narcissists! I think most if not all teenagers push the boundaries their parents give them, and some cross those boundaries pretty far. since the teenager’s frontal lobe is not fully developed they don’t have the awareness of the possibly terrible consequences of their thrill seeking behavior and too many literally ruin their lives because of the risky behavior with driving vehicles, drugs, drinking, sex etc. I used to work in head and spinal cord injury and almost 90% of our patients in rehab were 16-20 years old and their injuries related to vehicle accidents from risky driving, either on their parts or they were in the the car or on the motorcycle with a friend driving. They were in wheel chairs for the rest of their lives, or walking on prosthetic legs, or had head injuries that would make them unable to hold employment, or in some cases even be aware of where they were or who they were.

I was more concerned with my son physically wrecking his life by his risky behavior, then later I was concerned with him wrecking his life by petty criminal behavior that he saw as “no big deal” but I saw as a FELONY CONVICTION that wouldn’t do him any good in life.

Then after the first felony conviction, I still hoped that in spite of that he could be salvaged and have some sort of life in spite of it. When he was arrested for murder 5 months after being released on the first adult felony charge of robbery, I went into a tail spin because I knew there was no going back from that. At best, he would spend the bulk of his life in prison.

Even then, I would still periodically cling to the malignant hope that he could reform even after decades in prison. That at least he could have some sort of life on the outside that would be productive, etc. I held on to this DELUSION until a couple of years ago. In retrospect, I should have given up when he was 17….but hind-sight is always 20/20. Just like my paternal grandfather, I kept hoping….

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http://mentalhealth.samhsa.gov.....013ch8.asp

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Found this link for you… not your EXACT situation at all…but maybe something in it will be of help for the phone call.

http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2.....hological/

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Because these lies were so constant/consistent I was usually tried to pick my battles as you do with any teenager and yet the DEGREE of the lying was very troubling to me. More troubling was the way he delivered them. As if they were the truth ABSOLUTELY and how dare you not believe HIM.

If he lied and there was a consequence extended the punishment would not only make him angry but he actually would appear to be almost blind sided by it. As if the punishment was REALITY but the lie never happened. So no “lesson learned” was ever accomplished in a punishment. Just anger.

Another troubling thing I have seen if my son is caught red handed in a lie is just NO RESPONSE at all. As if it NEVER HAPPENED….The false reality….

There is no way to confront him about a lie or troubling behaviour as he doesn’t own it…..And I’m not talking about admittance here….Lots of teenagers won’t admit they did something wrong……
This is where words don’t do justice on trying to describe…..
It is hard to confront because in HIS reality it never happened….So I am confronting him on something that NEVER happened.
I know that manipulation is also involved in here. Often it is hard to tell where the lies ends and the manipulation begins.

These things are just some of the things that don’t just “fit” right with what else I see…..

I don’t have to be a doctor to know that my son is depressed. That is pretty obvious.
The lies and manipulation and lack of reality and all of the rest, I’m not sure what all that means.
And how a parent sets boundaries when every confrontation of boundaries crossed/house rules broken turns into a nightmare and goes nowhere? Its kind of an impossible situation…..

Still waiting for the call…..

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My P-sperm donor I think “told the same lies over and over” that he “almost believed them”—he was frequently interviewed in the newspapers an dfor magazines, and since his lies were a) proveable as lies and b) VERY inconsistent over the years, when he got to the point he wanted to appear “respectable but eccentric” he had some real problems with the past interviews etc. Which I think were very embarassing to him because he did not want to be exposed for a liar. Soometimes if he were “caught” or confronted about one, he would, like your x just “don’t go there” with the implied “threat” along with it.

I don’t think there is any “deep thinking or planning” I think they do it “on the fly” more or less. Some of it I honestly think is a kind of confabulation….like a 5 year old may tell you a story as “truth” about how he went to the moon in a rocket ship and all the things he did while he was there. It is just making interesting conversation to get your attention and maybe make you think they are an “important” person (or whatever thing they are trying to promote in your esteem) It is quite normal for a five year old to do this on the fly, but for an “adult” to do it is pathological. Even the five year old doesn’t believe it himself, but still gets some enjoyment out of telling it, imagining it, I imagine the psychopaths get some enjoyment out of making you think they are so “wonderful” and sort of believe it about themselves.

I also think that the need to feel superior is OK with them as long as it is “believed” even if it is not “technically true”—the fake “navy seals” are examples of this to me. As long as YOU believe they were “navy seals” they tell themselves they could have been navy seals if they had the opportunity….of course because they (they tell themselves) didn’t have the opportunity, it isn’t their fault. LOL

I may be wrong, and it may only be some of them, but it seems to me that many of them while feeling “low self esteem” build this personna, and yet, at the same time, they feel special and entitled at the SAME TIME…sort of conflicting emotions about what they are. Kind of a “catch 22.”

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So, the lies they cook up, ongoing, cannot be mirrored back to them.

I know when confronted with blatant evidence of his double life my P insisted, very very chillingly that I “don’t go there”.

That was it. Shut the whole thing down like it didn’t exsist. And then expected me to continue to live the lie with him.

What I wonder is, does all this come with deep thinking and planning, or is projecting the false reality such a habit that it is like putting on your “other hat”? Maybe that is why they have the audacity to feel superior. They are more than us. They are many fake people all rolled up into one. (ha….ha…)

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