Identifying sociopathic behavior is easy; giving advice is hard
PDF Just about every day, Lovefraud receives e-mail from readers who are looking for answers about confusing, contradictory and abusive behavior exhibited by people in their lives. The new readers don’t understand what they are dealing with; they just tell, either in a few paragraphs or lengthy compositions, their stories. The e-mails describe some or many of the following behaviors:
- Pathological lying
- Pity plays
- Shallow emotions
- Devalue and discard
- Cheating or promiscuity
- Addiction to drugs or alcohol
- Controlling demands
- Financial irresponsibility
- Manipulation of children
- Broken promises
- Claims of “you made me do it”
- Pleas of “I’ll never do it again”
The readers ask, “Am I involved with a sociopath?”
For those of us who now know what sociopathic behavior looks like, it is apparent that the answer is yes—or that at least the readers are describing sociopathic traits.
More than 1,300 people have contacted Lovefraud with their stories—and others have told their stories in comments posted on this blog. In all of them, the same behavior patterns are described over and over again. In fact, many of you have wondered (facetiously) if you were all involved with the same person.
Asking for advice
When newbies, who have been confused by lies and broken promises, learn that there is a personality disorder that describes what they’ve been dealing with, they have a few reactions. One is relief that they are not crazy—they really are experiencing irrational demands and covert manipulation.
Another is horror at the magnitude of the problems they face—especially upon learning that there really isn’t any treatment for a sociopath. With that, the new reader starts asking for advice, and this is where things get tricky.
Here are questions that I’ve been asked:
- He’s threatened to kill me—will he do it?
- How do I get the judge to see the truth?
- How can I get the authorities to arrest her?
- How can I protect my children?
- How can I get my money back?
- What should I do?
As much as I wish that any of us who are further along the road of understanding could answer these questions, the reality is, we can’t.
Each situation is unique
Although we often see the same patterns of behavior, each sociopath is unique. Each victim is unique. Each situation is unique. As victims try to extricate themselves from entanglements with sociopaths, any and all of these issues may be pivotal:
- How much clout does the sociopath have in the community?
- How well can the sociopath manipulate the legal system?
- How much money does the sociopath have to throw into the conflict?
- Who believes the sociopath?
- Who can the sociopath make into allies?
- Are there any witnesses? Will they speak up?
- How old are the children?
- What office politics are involved?
- Do legal authorities take the case seriously?
- Are there any ties that can’t be broken?
- How much money does the victim have (remaining)?
- How much strength does the victim have to continue the battle?
Sometimes I feel so helpless. I can offer some generalizations about what sociopaths tend to do—based on the 1,300 cases I’ve learned about—but I cannot predict what any particular sociopath will do, how authorities may react, or if anyone will see through the deceptions. All of this makes it very difficult to give advice.
Solitary journey
In reality, extricating ourselves, recovering from, and coming to terms with the sociopath(s) in our life is a solitary journey. Other people may make suggestions, but we must ultimately make the decisions on how to cope.
And sometimes the range of the choices we have the ability to make is very narrow. A judge may decide on joint custody of children, or even award custody to the sociopath. Law enforcement may decline to investigate or prosecute. If we win our case in civil court, we may never collect a judgment.
In situations like these, decisions are taken away from us.
When that happens, our only choices have to do with our own attitude. Are we going to let the sociopath sink us? Or are we going to somehow find a way to heal?
Real response is internal
There is great wisdom in the adage, “This, too, shall pass.”
It’s been 10 years since I left my sociopathic ex-husband. I’ve processed most of the emotional trauma associated with the experience, so it doesn’t have the grip on me that it once did. In fact, if it weren’t for the fact that I’m running Lovefraud, it would have no grip on me at all.
Ten years ago, I was on the phone with another woman scammed by my husband multiple times a day. Although we are still friends, now we only speak two or three times a year. She’s moved on in her life—the experience is a distant memory.
The same thing happens here at Lovefraud. In the midst of their trauma, readers post frequently. But eventually we stop seeing their names and comments. I hope that means they’ve left the experience behind.
In the end, the real response to the experience with the sociopath is internal. We have to come to terms with the betrayal, the injury, the exploitation. So although it’s hard to give foolproof advice for dealing with the circumstances that the predator creates in our lives, the truly important advice is this: Find a way to heal yourself.
written by Donna Andersen • Permalink •
Kathleen Hawk says:
No, LTL, but I wish I were.
It’s amazing that you were like that too. He made me laugh, and I thought I won my share of our debates. But as you say, it didn’t last. Once he started the give-and-take, I started to fall apart fast. And then I was just trying to be who I used to be, which got harder and harder and harder.
But here’s another thing. When I was with him, and it was “neutral,” not the good times or the bad time, I felt like my brain was different. And I mean that it wasn’t the big addictive rush of when he was liking me. This is just when we were doing things together, or sharing information. It was like I had access to different parts of my brain.
It was one of the things that fueled my recovery, or helped me imagine how it was going to be. I always knew that I was using relationships to compensate for my weaknesses. And I always wished I could be more like these people I loved. Because I admired their strengths so much.
After I got him out of my life, I thought, well, if I can imagine their strengths, if I love them so much, and know exactly what I want, they must be in me too. I mean, you can’t imagine or want what’s not in your head already, no?
Some things about this recovery are just so darned fun. It’s like having a party with yourself. When I think it’s over, and stop working on it for a while, I miss it. Because there’s nothing quite like changing into who want to be.
n’est-ce pas, LTH?
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usedabused says:
This is a wonderful thread, everyone, been reading for hours, really need to lay it down (oops, got that phrase from him, sorry Sisters).
But just a few thoughts:
So “being a sociopath to deal with a sociopath” is a palliative effort. It’s something we do when necessary.
I did it, Kathleen, I played him for 2 weeks to get some property back that he had. Never thought I could. Had a great coach, the OW in our situation, just told me to take it one day at a time and if I broke down and told him it was OK, and OK if I took him back, she would understand.
The first day was the hardest, once I pulled that off, it was just a game. I could not believe I was doing it but I did. I was so sure he saw through it that I was not even sure he would bring my stuff until I saw it. He thought I loved him enough to take a bullet for him, this caught him . . . shocked? Not hurt, has no hurt. Just amazed that I finally “played him” like he has been playing me for years.
It was a rush when I was getting ready, but as soon as accomplished I started feeling sad. Fighting it. It was the only way, any other way would have risked getting sucked back in.
Princesspants, you need to get an order to do the exchanges at the police station. Should go through easy, just a few declarations from your employees and there’s not a family law judge in the country who won’t sign it. Elizabeth is right. There are also some civil causes for interference with contractual relationships, or with contract (depending on the state), your customers. And slander, other people heard it. But is it worth the hassle and does he have anything to get? Decisions. I would go for the PO station, no need to have your employees talking about it. Employees can go adverse at any time, and any thing they can dish you on can hurt you. Been there, done that.
This is “stranger in a train,” phenomenon, and a good one. Easier to talk anonymously than to people who know me, it’s all so embarrassing.
My employee is cool, and one other person. She does not even know I even gave him a second (fifth maybe?) chance, we had screaming fights about him.
There is a post about making up to those you have hurt over the S, I need to read that. I have people who have waited weeks for their checks because I gave him money. It hurts like hell. People who love me and want me to succeed, waiting to get paid for legitimate work because I fell for some pity story and bailed him out of this or paid his rent or whatever.
It all sounds the same. Like, in Donna’s post, we were all with the same guy. Though at the time, he was so unique and fascinating.
God Bless.
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jelltogether says:
Just found this website and it feels so good. Right about now, I think that I AM Crazy. I have been in a relationship with a man for ten years. Everything started out great. Just like the stories on here. He passionately pursued me as I was getting out of a bad marriage. I thought he was everything I was looking for until little red flags popped up. He was not in recovery for alcoholism as I was told. He wanted to move in with me immediately, he was getting phone calls from his “crazy” ex-wife(who had treated him so badly), he just needed a chance to prove to me how much he loved me, he wanted to marry me, etc. We did end up getting married! I had started to realize that he wasn’t all he was cracked up to be but he was sooo convincing all the time. There was always a good reason, according to him, for what he did. He left me numerous occasions for his ex-wife–for the children’s sake he told me–they needed him. Of course I had gotten him caught up on his child support first. He would leave her and call me crying to come back. He just made a terrible mistake he said. All the time I thought I must have done something wrong. Needless to say I had abuse in my background–molested up until age 15. I wanted someone to be in my corner. Oh he was good at convincing me of how much he loved me. I ended up in bankruptcy trying to “fix” everything for him and he walked. Still he would call me and convince me that we were so much in love and I believed that he must love me since he couldn’t stay away from me. The sex was fantastic and used that to keep me hooked on “how special” it was with me. There were tearful phone calls all the time, more when he was drinking. I started to get severe anxiety attacks when I didn’t hear from him. He would be unreachable as, god forbid, he would pay to have a phone. He would manipulate me like a puppet but always subtle in approach so I would think that I was really messed up. He even told me in one call that I was a very “troubled” person. He was drunk in that phone call but I was the one who ended up crying hysterically, thinking that no one could love me I was so messed up. Last time he left, I had just found out that I had lost my job and he couldn’t hit the door fast enough!! I looked up sociopath today and found this blog because I started driving to pick him up to come back, which is unbelievable in itself–it’s an 8 hour drive from my house- and 2 hours into the drive, he calls to see where I am then tells me that he got a “job” that he can’t give up and not to come after all. I know that he keeps me hanging on as his back up but I am scared that I am getting these anxiety attacks that make me want to call HIM, to save the relationship!! I feel so messed up because he has gotten me to the point that I think I will never have another relationship unless it’s with him. It’s incredible. In all other areas of my life, I have it so together except this one. I have started to go to Al-Anon but am so new to the process. Didn’t know where to go but here.
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OxDrover says:
DEar Jelltogether,
GLAD you are here and found this website. It is THE BEST healing place on the net! Read all the old archived articles and most of your questions will be answered. KNOWLEDGE=POWER and you can take back your power. Many of us say that this place has saved our sanity and even our lives!
WELCOME, and glad you are here! It does get better! Don’t let anything make you even listen to him again. NO CONTACT is the way to get out of this rut you have been in. He can’t love you….he is a psychopath!
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shabbychic2 says:
Jelltogether: Welcome, glad you found this site, I too suffer from severe anxiety, but have discovered that calling him only makes it worse, the anxiety is like every scary emotion I have is all balled up into a lump inside me! I have learned a lot at this site, it has been a tremendous help to me, I’ve learned I have to take care of me and to love myself. Oxy’s advice is perfect, read the archived articles!!
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jelltogether says:
OxDrover,
I took your advice and read this whole thread. OMG do I see the same types of behavior in my guy. I remember when he first approached me I was going through a bad divorce and he sent me cards, letters and gifts. I was embarassed but flattered. Then the first time I told him that I wanted him to back off, he acted like I was trying to rip his heart out which made me feel guilty. If another guy tried to get close to me when we were out, he would make me feel guilty even though we weren’t together. Anything I did to put the brakes on he made ME feel like I was being so cruel. So when I finally did give in to the relationship and moved in with him, he would give me the cold shoulder when things didn’t go his way. He ended up moving out one weekend when I went out of town and right back into his ex wife’s house thus starting the journey. After that it was like living on a ship in very high seas. Always off balance, questioning my judgement, thinking “am I crazy” wondering what love really was, trying to be “loyal”– he would always tell me “I’m just me” which I think really interprets into “don’t expect anything from me.” The sad part is I am having a hard time letting go of relationships with his family. He has two kids who like me and a few grandchildren, one of whom I am close with–how do you deal with that loss?
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jelltogether says:
The weird thing to me is that I recognized bad people in every other area except with this guy!
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OxDrover says:
Dear Jell,
I understand your loss of other relationships tied to your relationship with him. It is colateral damage, and as difficult as it seems you will be better off if you disengage from anyone and everyone that is connected to him. If nothing else it will bring up memories of him. Few (if any) of those people lwill recognize him for what he is —-a monster—-and you end up staying upset yourself over it.
I suggest that you go back in the archives here and read ALL the old articles, from start to finish, just read the articles first and then later you can go back and read the comments under them. You will gain so much from just reading all the older articles and most if not all of your questions will be answered.
Learning about them is the first step, but before long your healing will not be about THEM but about fixing yourself, healing your own self, and finding out why you took all this abuse for so long. It doesn’t excuse what they did to us, but we did allow it. That is hard to reconcile, because it is NOT your fault (not our fault) but somehow we were vulnerable to the “fantasy” of “love” that they presented, and that is all it was is a twisted fantasy because someone who really loves you would NEVER TREAT YOU THE WAY THEY DID US.
No, you are NOT crazy, but they twist reality until we think we are. They convince us that black is white and white is black, but the pain eventually shows us that we can’t keep up the denial of the truth.
You are right,, you cannot EVER EXPECT ANYTING FROM THEM BUT PAIN and being devalued and discarded. ((((hugs)))))
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kindheart48 says:
Jelltogether, welcome aboard and read all you can but i have to tell you i read for years and the only way out of this and trust me i’ve done it all and then some is NO CONTACT and that is the hardest thing to do. Like you i ended up involved with the lunatic’s family and it all leads back tohim and im in the process of getting rid of them all. I nearly did myself in this last time, calling the newer woman and telling her about me. She had no idea, anyway there have been lots of them and it doen’st matter, they cannot love like we do and i see you’ve wasted alot of years. i shouldn’t say wasted, but i too have for 6. I want that time back. H e has taken up all my headspace and i have others who deserve it more. This last time, i almost ended up going to the hospital, due to stress but i’ll be dammed if this ass*** is going to get the best of me. Im a fighter, i just have to remember that ther is no point in fighting someone who doesn’t play fair. He can play with someone else . I sit here wondering what my life could be like if i hadn’t met him but there is nothing i can do about the past. I tried and he failed , not me , so time to throw the towel in. I hope you learn lots and get the NO CONtact down alot sooner than i did as it’s just a waste of time with them. love Kindheart
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Matt says:
keeping_faith:
Just saw your post from Monday, 3/30. Wish you much luck with relocating and moving forward with your life. If you ever get up here to NYC, give me a call.
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Elizabeth Conley says:
Princesspants,
I’m sorry it has taken so long to get back with you. With respect to your daughter’s SSN, I think you need to ask Matt about that one.
Your kids being so young may work in your favor. Once you get the excitement and conflict out of child custody exchanges, he may lose interest. Sociopaths have short attention spans after things get dull.
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Elizabeth Conley says:
Usedabused,
“There is a post about making up to those you have hurt over the S, I need to read that. I have people who have waited weeks for their checks because I gave him money. It hurts like hell. People who love me and want me to succeed, waiting to get paid for legitimate work because I fell for some pity story and bailed him out of this or paid his rent or whatever.”
I’ve got a lot of people I love and a lot of people who love me. I’ve got a web of relationships and obligations, and I regret every minute I ever wasted helping the S, because those minutes belonged to me and the good people in my life.
Whenever I’m tempted to spend a penny or a minute taking care of some issue the S has, I remember the people in my life who appreciate it when time, money and energy is expended on their behalf. The S thinks being catered to is his due. He can “talk to the hand”.
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lostingrief says:
elizabeth,
i’m so sorry. i know i have also hurt people by helping the s/p/n. there was so much good i could have done with the tens of thousands i forked over to that ungrateful bastard. how do we make up for those things? now that there is NO money left, and i’m broke and alone, i believe we must be a phoenix — rise back up and reclaim our power and worth.
the regrets are hard. 22 years of my life focused on his well-being, no appreciation, and with barely a thank you.
we really need to focus on those who can appreciate our gifts … whatever those gifts may be.
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OxDrover says:
Dear LIG,
Yes, I can relate to the “wasteage” of resorces and time on the Ps. When you have a P in your family, they EAT UP all the family resources in time, money, etc. and deprive the others of their “fair share.”
There’s no way to put those resources or those minutes back in the pot and reallocate them the way they should have been done. “The saddest words of tongue or pen, it might have been” (maybe not an exact quote, but you get the idea) All we can do is to sincerely apologize to those we “neglected” if they are still in our lives, and pray for forgiveness from them and from God for not using our “talents” more wisely.
In the end, the Ps are like two-headed dogs demanding meat, and when we run out of meat to throw them, they devour even our own flesh.
Forgiving MYSELF for this was difficult. (((hugs))))
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kimberley says:
I see so many responses concerning husbands/wives/partners; I’m dealing instead with my son who I feel sure is an APD. He’s living with us (his father and me) in our home while on parole from prison. And, for the first time, I’m thinking of life after telling him we’re done. How do I pursue doing what’s best for me and my husband, when it means turning my child “out”?
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Ntmare says:
Hi All, My first trip here on the keyboard.
One thing I have to say is its so easy to get involved with an S. Almost no effort required to have or hold on to one for awhile. Didn’t even have to buy her dinner lol.
Short and sweet she’s a beautiful 27 yr old me 46 years young. Shes married which goes against everything i believe in, had a cheating wife myself. Became what I hated , the other man grrrr I have to live with that. No Contact?
Man its not easy. Incredible how we take them back over and over again. Even more amazing how they come back after all the cursing and nasty talking like you just met them again , like it never happened. cookoo cookoo. Sometimes wish her husband would hear of me and come whip my arse, no contact would be eaiser with a broken leg. Well anyway its a battle with ourselves I know. Real or not to them It feels so good to us. Good Luck All.
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Elizabeth Conley says:
Dear Kimberly,
I recommend “Setting Limits With Your Adult Children”
http://www.amazon.com/Setting-.....736921354#
Maybe there’s something there you’ll find helpful. It’s a very good book that directly addresses the issues you are wrestling with.
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Matt says:
kimberly:
I’m not a parent, although I have read the book Elizabeth Conley recommended. However, I can speak a bit to cutting off a sociopathic ex-con, since that’s what my ex-partner is. And to really ice the cake, I was a criminal defense attorney so I really should have known that many of cons/ex-cons are sociopaths. I should have, and I still got sucked in.
When he ran his first pity play on me, several months after we met, he came clean about having just been released from prison. And I love this man so much that I was determined to do everything I could to see that he succeeded.
Then, gradually, I realized he was back on drugs. That he was bleeding me dry financially. That he was cheating on me. That he was abusing me emotionally. That he was playing me the same way he played the probation system.
When I finally had to admt that he didn’t love me, never had, all his protestations to the contrary, I thought I was going to die. But, I realized if I didn’t save myself, I was going to kill myself. More to the point, I realized that these creatures are survivors — all their tears to the contrary, they will find somebody new to play, somebody new to bleed.
When I finally realized I had to save myself, he came to my apartment with one mission — to get 10 grand out of me because his locks had been changed by his landlord. I have subsequently learned that he was a busy boy that weekend — he got the 10 grand out of his boss. And his father. And a friend who lives around the corner from me.
One of the hardest things I had to do, when I finally figured out what I had on my hands was turning off everything that made me human. I had to shut off the love. I had to shut off the compassion. I had to shut off my understanding. Or, to put it another way, to get rid of a sociopath, become a sociopath.
I don’t envy your situation. But, you have to save yourself and your husband. Otherwise you will be bled dry pouring every emotional and financial resource into the bottomless pit these people are.
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jelltogether says:
Ntmare, I agree it is amazing that despite all their threats they come back. They come back they know that you are vulnerable to their game. It’s because, in the moment, they are able to be so convincing. They can flip a switch within themselves to morph their personalities to the situation. What interests me is that so many of us are intelligent, compassionate. giving people. Apparently those good qualities are the very thing that makes us targets for these individuals. Don’t beat yourself up over it. Admitting that someone is using you in love is the most difficult thing ever. At least it is for me.
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notagain says:
I’m here again, because my guy, whom has every behavior listed in this article, is to top it off, extremely manipulative and can tell the truth better than a person who is actually telling the truth.
In the past couple of weeks, the truth about this situation, me and him, is becoming frighteningly more clear…especially after reading up on Sociopaths.
I thought it was emotional abuse, or things we could work on, or that I was co-dependent….and he was simply an alcoholic suffering. But I think I am wrong. I am starting to see it much differently now. I know many alcoholics who are not manipulative, or emotionally abusive, or controlling. I
I have checked myself pretty well for co-dependent behaviors…I have very little co-dependent behvaiors. Ive checked myself for being verbally abusive…which to him, means confronting with facts, or problems that I need to be resolved in the relationship. To him, it is all an attack…on his very personality.
He has every behavior trait listed above. Broken promises, the rules change every week. What he says, changes from day to day, and when I confront him with what someone else has said, he can deny it while looking me straight in the eyes…and if that doesn’t work, he resorts to crying or accusing me of attacking him verbally.
He frauded my taxes a couple years ago, and now I have to pay the state back. I was dumb enough to let him do my taxes. I usually let my sister do them for me…because I am horrible with this stuff. Well, I asked him how he was going to help me straighten out this situation and pay the state back. He said “You had the ultimate choice about doing the taxes.” Well, I did let him do my taxes, but I later found out how that he manipulated my figures to get more money back. HE threw a hissy fit, said I was attacking him, when I was merely upset, because of the situation it put me into, and the next day, wrote me a letter of how terrible I am. How I take advantage of the state, how terrible I am being a horrible mother to my kids, and how I try to put responsibility on to him and point the finger at him. He then started drinking from 9:30 in the morning,m while I was at college. At night, about 8:30, he called me from the bar and told me to go and pick him up. I refused, and said he could spend the night at his Uncles house. He continued to call and demand that I go pick him up, and said he had a LETTER for me. He couldnt wait to get this letter to me. He then follishly drove to his friends house, where he continued to drink, and call me. HE couldn’t wait til I heard what was in his letter, so he read it to me, screaming at the top of his lungs…I heard his freind tell him to settle down, he wasa being too loud. He then started screaming F- you! over and over…(I got a picture in my head of him strangling his friend, because it got quiet on the phone…and then the phone hung up.)
About an hour later, he called for me to bail him out of jail, but I wouldn’t answer the phone. I did talk to his friend though who said he had attacked him and his 17 year old son, which he admitted to later that night, after he talked the police into letting him take a cab home to my house. He had gotten arrested for O.U.I….and drugs, vicodin. he had an excuse for the pills, and told me he was only reparking the car acrossed the lot, because his friend wouldn’t let him keep it in the driveway. BUT, his friend had told me on the phone, that he himself had made this lie up to tell the police to try and get him out of the O.U.I. But my boyfriend told me this lie too, to justify him getting arrested.
He came home at 3 in the morning, tearing and crying and saying sorry. The police were called, because of how loud he had been screaming at me on the phone, and screaming in general. He said it was because I had stressed him out so bad the day before, accussing him of being responsible for my taxes (which he prepared, typed and submitted) and that I treated our relationship like we were SEPERATE. Everytime I read the letter, I get sick to my stomach….and know how he must of planned his revenge on me for wanting to solve the problem he created.
I feel like I have to prove my sanity here, and hope that I am not insane or misreading his behavior. It is like, everyone else is lying, and he is telling the truth, and he can put this spell on me, long enough for me to forgive him, and then I feel like I have to follow through on my words of not leaving him.
Today, his NEW job called here, and asked for the insurance he had said was underneath me. There is no insurance underneath me. He started his job with out insurance and lied about it, and used me, to make it look like he had to get the paper work from me for the car insurance. The woman who called for this insurance policy said “well, have him call me, he will know exactly what I am talking about.” Then my boyfriend called from lunch, I told him about the car insurance policy this woman was looking for underneath me, and he said he never said such a thing or ever talked to that woman about any such thing. HE LIED, and he lied so well again, that I find myself believing it. He said she must have him confused with someone else.
Well, now that he got an O.U.I and was busted without insurance for his satelite job, I am sure he will lose his job. he is lieing to me about all kinds of things, even trivial things….that we could resolve with out a problem. He won’t tell the whole truth, or he will completely deny the truth.
In my gut, i know, that if he had made it home the other night, and had not gotten busted for O.U.I he would have torn right into my soul that night, and it may have been my teenage son that he attacked. He admitted to strangling both his friend and his friends son, and justified it, like there was nothing at all wrong with this picture…this is horrifying to me. He got home at about 3 in the morning, and was SORROWFUL
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OxDrover says:
Dear NOTagain,
Yep, you are right on, he sounds like a LOST CAUSE PSYCHOPATH TO ME, the only option you have for gettin gout of this is to throw him out if he lives with you, and go NO CONTACT. Even if he has no other place to go, put his things outside on the porch or street, get him out of your life. NO CONTACT.
I know it will not be easy, but you seem to have come to the final realization that this man will not and cannot be honest, or tell the truth. It is always going to be someone else’s fault that he gets into trouble, that he has no car insurance, etc.
What do you need this man in your life for? Name ONE good reason and I will tell you to work on the relationship. I will tell you to supply all his needs and believe all his lies and pretend that he is Prince Charming. If you can’t do that, then NO CONTACT immediately is the only answer. ((((hugs)))) Glad you are here and glad you are “getting it”—it is the only way to heal from these people. God bless you.
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jelltogether says:
I think that the no contact is easier said than done when you are just starting to realize that your partner is socipathic. I agree that that must be the final result but it is very hard, after years of being indoctrinated that you are the cause of the problems, to just say OK No Contact at all. You need to develop the strength to counter years of emotional abuse. I am not saying that that will take more years. Hopefully not!! But when the light is just dawning that the person you are dealing with is sociopathic, it is obviously going to take more than a day or two. Now if they are physically abusing you, then you must stop seeing or talking to them immediately! Once you realize that your partner fits the profile, then start adding up all the times you were lied to, manipulated and used. It doesn’t take long to realize that they know every button to push to get you to do what they want so you CANNOT listen to them anymore and cut off contact.
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OxDrover says:
You are right, Jell, it does take time, but the more time you stay in contact with them after you realize what they are, the longer and harder it is. ANY contact with them gives them more room to manuver and to SUCK YOU BACK INTO THE DRAMA. Many times they will do or say ANYTHING to keep you hooked in, you have ALWAYS eventually been hooked back in in the past, so they see no reason that you won’t be again if they just try a little harder. Or change tactics a bit….the NO contact is only the START of the healing process, not the end of it.
Until I finally bit the bullet and realized that ANY contact was keeping me hooked, and went NC did I realize I would never have made another step forward without NC. It is a leap of faith, but one that has been made over and over by others before us. Since my “egg donor” is not herself a psychopath, but the ENABLER of one, I didn’t see that I had to go NC with her as well, but I did, and didn’t start to heal until I had them AND her out of my life. And that was just the start of the healing process.
Some people, unfortunately, never make that leap of faith and stick to it. They are perpetually drawn back in when they break NC—sort of like an alcoholic trying to have “just one drink” or a crack addict, just one pipe full—just doesn’t make the cut! Many times as well we have to stay away from their friends, family, as well, because again, it is like the alcoholic who has stopped drinking, hanging out with his drinking buddies at the bar, it isn’t gonna work.
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notagain says:
A really good book to read is called , “The Gift of Fear.”
I had read it a few years back, but now I need to be applying that knowledge.
No contact doesn’t work with him, because he will keep calling and calling, until finally, when i do not answer, he will show up at my door. For me, it is my empathy that gets played, and I know that now. All he has to do, is pretend that his life is just a mess, and that he is not going to make it without me, and he has these puppy eyes that get me everytime….I’m pathetic. i have to remember though, that everytime he gets what he wants (a relationship back with me) that fake sorrow goes away, and he starts making rules around my house, and walking around like the king.
I need to go back and read the book, The Gift of Fear, again, because your fear is your gift….It is there to protect you. I recently realized after talking with his mother, that even she is afraid of him…..she is not allowed to even talk about him to others no matter what, or she will get screamed at. Something is very very wrong with that picture. She said she would call me today, because she wanted to know about the incident the other night with him getting arrested, and that she would talk to me more about what she knows, but she didn’t call…I feel it is because she is afraid.
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notagain says:
Hi Oxxdrover…:)
I think you are right too, about the one more drink, deal? For me, in this relationship, it is about him manipulating my emotions…until they feel good. That feeling good, for a while, is what they get to give you, and then take away…until they have complete control.
I realize now, that I have let him control my emotions…I find myself taking my anger and feelings of being betrayed, and letting them be manipulated into forgiveness by him…So awareness is key for me at this point.
It does hurt to think of letting him go, because I just simply love him…but then again.,…I get and feel a million times better for everyday that he is not with me. I feel relieved when he is gone…I feel free in my own home. When he walks in the house, the atmosphere changes.
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OxDrover says:
Dear Not again,
THAT IS THE THING—YOU LET HIM MANIPULATE YOU=—-and you can NOT let him manipulate you. It is your choice, my dear, whether you want to be manipulated with the “drug” that is killing you or whether you want to get off the “addiction.” You have the same choice to make that the alcoholic makes or the drug addict. As long as you hang around the “pusher” you are going to STAY ADDICTED.
ONLY YOU can take back the control over your emotions that YOU HAVE GIVEN HIM. When you really decide you have had enough, you will do what you know is the ONLY way you can get free of him. NO CONTACT. ZIP, ZERO, NADA, NONE, ZILCH, ABSOLUTELY NONE and even when he shows up at your door, you DO NOT OPEN THE DOOR.
You get a restraining order if you have to. Sure he will keep trying until he sees you are really serious. In the past you have always given in eventually, so only when you really make up your mind and stick to it are you actually going to break free. You have the choice to do it or not as you so choose.
Yes, it hurts for a while to get out of the addiction “cold turkey” but it is the ONLY way to do so. I wish there was another way. Believe me, I tried, and tried and tried, but as others told me (as I am telling you) you are FOOLING YOURSELF and that is the only one you are fooling.
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jelltogether says:
Dear Ox:
You are right–no contact is the way out. Like you said, contact is like the drug that draws you back in. You might want to take a taste but then you are quickly hooked. I totally relate to what NotAgain is saying about feeling better every day when he is not around. There was a real sense of relief when he was gone. It was like laying down a heavy load. I think what I was trying to say before was that when you first have the realization that they are the sick ones, you want to deny it to yourself because then you have to admit that you let this bad person into your life and KEPT them there by buying into their game. I know that I let NC slip because having to face that they were really not good people was SO Painful because I then had to look at what I had let them DO to my life and after all, wasn’t I smarter than that. I refused to admit for the longest time that he had spent all my money, didn’t help with the bills, cheated on me. I rationalized the cheating by saying to myself that he loved his kids so much–haha–that he had to put up with the ex-wife. Man that was sick. If I really look at what he did then I had to really look at the fact that I felt weak, small, out of control and unlovable. That is the hard part even though the rational part of me knew it wasn’t true. Everyone else in my life thinks so highly of me but he could say one word or two and I was there. There was an element too that I wanted to win something-his love, his respect, his faithfulness and to admit that he was never going give me any of that because he is NOT capable of feeling them is a very painful fact to face but face it you must. Every time you listen to them, call them, miss them or love them you will NOT get what you seek and cold turkey is what must happen. You are right Ox, you are only fooling yourself if you think that you can remain in some kind of contact with them. I know that contact makes the temptation to know what he is doing too overwhelming and painful. Sometimes I think that, like drug addicts or cults, we need to have a “detox” from these people.
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Matt says:
notagain:
“I have to remember though, that everytime he gets what he wants (a relationship back with me)…”
Having walked a mile in your shoes, I can tell you a good starting point is admitting you DO NOT have a relationship with this creature. A relationship implies mutuality of caring. Sociopaths are incapable of caring about others.
It was so hard for me to admit that I didn’t have a relationship with the S. All I was for him was a source of supply — money, social standing, legal advice, the works. Getting honest about what exactly you are to him helps to break free.
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OxDrover says:
Dear Jell,
That is what NC IS—DETOX! It takes a while away from them for the POISON OF THEIR VOICES to get out of our heads, just like if you are “high” on a drug, it takes a while to gt it out of your system to be “clean and sober”—sometimes it is months before the TOXINS of the psychopaths get out of our system so that we are “Sober” enough to think straight.
Believe me, I was a long while before I got completely “sober” and as I discarded each of the Ps out of my life, I got a little better. Unfortunately, I had SEVERAL addictions, in a series and multiple “addictions” at the same time, so for me it was a WHOLE RESTRUCTURING OF MY THOUGHTS and my life. It stripped me down to the BARE BONES of existence—and almost took that as well.
I realize now that I can’t “do it alone” that I must turn to my “higher power” to support me, my faith in my God, because what has happened to me, and to many others here is more than a simple human animal can handle…it is a spiritual fight as well as an emotional one. The good in us vs. the evil in them, the evil forces that they loose on us.
Recognizing that, and distancing ourselves from the evil of their voices, the temptations for the “easy fix” of what they offer—it is difficult, but I think it is the ONLY way we can survive and grow.
Whatever your spiritual belief is, I think you must rely on that as well to over come the addictions that we have let ourselves get hooked on. The fantasy that they can provide us “love”—-
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Elizabeth Conley says:
Matt,
“a good starting point is admitting you DO NOT have a relationship with this creature. A relationship implies mutuality of caring. Sociopaths are incapable of caring about others. ”
Brilliantly simple and absolutely true.
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changedforever says:
Regarding the need for excitment in sociopaths…
I read that sociopaths have a strong need for excitement and they can’t stand boredom that’s why they engage themselves in dangerous things like breaking the law, do drugs, engaging in violent activities or take serious risks to fulfill that need, but the person to whom I was with and I still think he is a sociopath doesn’t do none of those things but likes to party so much, he gets so excited to go to a party or events and enternainments and have fun soooooooo much. He lives to have fun. At beginning of our relationship that’s one of the things that attracted me to him, but than I noticed that it was to much. It just drains your energy dry. It is like he have extra energy. If I was not in a mood to go out for same reason he use to get so bored, in a point that I use to feel guilty to make in feel so bored. Another thing is he likes to see violent sports like boxing. He can stay for hours watching boxing and boxing and boxing. Is this another type of excitment that they can have??
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Matt says:
changedforever:
I think they are desperate for a new and fresh buzz because the lack the normal emotional responses the rest of us have which give us satisfaction. Robert Hare in “Without Conscience” discusses the various kinds of buzz sociopaths seek out.
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