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After the sociopath: How do we heal? Part 7-Letting Go

Sunday, 29 March 2009 @ 5:26pm • My Weblog

Letting go is the point at which our recovery turns around from darkness to light. In previous articles, we have discussed all the stages of magical thinking, how we progressively become more and more willing to accept reality.

In a trauma or extended trauma, like a relationship with a sociopath, there is a lot of difficult reality to accept. Here is a recap of our healing stages or strategies:

• Denial – the most “unreal” stage, where we say it is not important, where we are at war with our own feelings
• Bargaining – we admit it hurts, but we still think it is in our power to change it
• Anger – we blame the external cause, we recover our feelings of personal power over our lives, but we continue to maintain the idea that there is something we or anyone else can do about it.

This article is about letting go, the stage where we face our losses and come to terms with our powerlessness to change them.

The light in the darkness

If the last paragraph sounded like a line from an Alcoholics Anonymous book, there is a reason. This transition from anger to acceptance is the key to the AA approach. Facing up to reality that is both the hardest thing we ever do, but also the only possible path to real healing and recovery of ourselves and our lives.

Anger – whether old embedded anger or a fresh reaction –is an expression of the “me” side of the brain. It spurs us to take action for ourselves. Embedded anger is the underlying cause of addictions – because we are “taking care of ourselves” against the forces that threaten our survival at some level. That level may be, and often is, our right to be whole human beings entitled to all our feelings and potential.

Embedded anger is usually about situations in which we feel we cannot act. If we act, we lose something even bigger. A good example of this is childhood abuse, where we “agree” to act, think or feel in certain ways in order to survive. Adult situations may include work or personal relationships where we have something at risk – like our jobs, our children’s welfare, our lifestyle.

Compromising our integrity, a word that means “wholeness,” never comes cheap. Each compromise warps us and evolves into greater complexity over time. These compromises have the full range of negative emotions attached to them – fear, anger and grief. Every one of them sets up a pattern of feelings, a “state,” that recurs in circumstances that remind us of the original situation or just exist perpetually.

These states are linked to our addictive behaviors. What we do to make ourselves feel better. We find our “drug of choice,” whether it is a chemical solution or something more socially acceptable like work or shopping to anesthetize or distract us. Beyond that, we imagine bigger solutions. The love affair that will heal us. The financial score that will relieve our stresses. The answers we might find through some self-development or spiritual pursuit. The “perfect” anything that will magically change our world.

However, unless the solution resolves that loss, eliminating it as a source of recurring states, nothing is really a permanent fix. The states keep returning. We keep searching and buying into “apparent fixes” with hungers that in retrospective seem overly risky or out of control.

The solution here, the solution to all of this complex structure of pain and faulty solutions, is in the cause. The loss. It is through the loss that we emerge on the other side of it as renewed and somehow more than we were before. The loss, in a way that we never anticipate while we are avoiding the pain, turns out to be a gift.

Resisting loss

Sociopaths offer us perfect solutions. In their cleverness at reflecting back our most powerful dreams, they “make real” our best ideas about what will fix us. For the magical moments of their efforts to recruit us, they give us a taste of what we imagine perfection to be. And so, we are relieved of the anxiety, loneliness, resentments and fears that come from our earlier compromises with our personal monsters.

It all feels so natural, so right, because none of us want to feel like we’ve lost anything. In fact, the sociopathic seduction actually reverses our progress in handling earlier traumas. Most of us are at least up to bargaining as a life strategy, and some of us have access to anger in certain circumstances. At minimum, we feel it in relationship to other people’s traumas, especially the ones that remind us of our own.

But in these relationships, we return to denying any of it was important. We lose every reason to remember, to hold onto the lessons we learned. We are free, beautiful, trusting, fully connected, with nothing standing between us and this dream. (And whatever hints or warnings that this is not what it seems get pushed away, because this is our own best idea and it seems worth anything.)

When they start depriving us of this perfect fix, we are in agony. We think it is about them, but it tends to be more than that. All the old states, every reason we wanted that fix is back and it is louder. We start going through all the stages again on all kinds of levels of our lives – denial, bargaining anger — everything that was ever related to these losses. And worse, we are in battle with the addiction, which has experienced relief and wants more.

All of this is about not wanting to feel our losses. Not wanting to lose. Wanting to be whole. We are back in the grief cycle with a vengeance. And all of it is about “no.” No this is not happening to me. No I don’t deserve this. No these are not the rules I agreed to. This is bad. I hate it. It is not part of who I am or my world. I refuse.

Graduating from anger

Anger is that roar. That animal cry that really combines the resistance and grief below it. At some point, we recognize the grief below the anger. It comes when we see that no matter how ready we are to act, no matter how well and appropriately we have responded to the alert messages of our survival system, the deed is done. It is over. There is nothing we can do about it.

In anger, we link the pain to the external cause. The sociopath did this to me. In grief, we link the pain to our own loss. It does not matter what caused it. We can blame forever, make ourselves the victims in ways that relieve us from fault, but we ultimately cannot get away from the fact that a change has occurred. And the change is in us.

Even talking about loss is hard. Ironically, we talk about it more easily when we are in denial or bargaining. I don’t want to feel like I’ve lost my ability to trust. I don’t want to feel like the world isn’t safe. I don’t want to loss the idea that I can manage my own life. I don’t want to feel like no one will ever love me again, or that I will never love anyone else. I don’t want to admit that that the money I lost represents months or years of my life. I don’t want to know that my children or my friends or family have faced losses because of my behavior.

In anger we reject all of it. We use our recovered sense of personal power to try to penetrate these losses, to turn them around. In this, we gain important insight about what happened. But that eventually puts us in touch with the great roaring grief. Our real feelings. The renewed sense of personal power is important. We need to recover our sense that we can do something about our lives. It makes us ready to learn.

The great pivot of healing

Everything that leads up to grief is getting us ready for it. To be real about our losses and how we feel about them. To face the fact that something has changed. To allow ourselves to be human again, not the childish superheroes of our attempts to magically make the changes go away.

Finally this is us being vulnerable with ourselves. Being honest. Giving up our internal defenses and our attempts to medicate our pain. This is a war that we have lost. And also won, because in grief, we are real.

For all the work we put into avoiding our grief, it is a great irony to discover that it is about being kind to ourselves. What keep us from grief are the internalized voices of harsh parents or other authorities that denied us the right to our own feelings, dreams, ideas. We accommodated their demands up to this point, but now we are taking our power back. We are in our own reality. We are finally ready to respond to our losses and to support ourselves through it. We become our own “good parents.”

How do we feel and act in grief? Everyone has their own processes, but here are some of mine:

• Tears over how the reality is different from what I wanted it to be
• Loving feelings toward what I lost or what I really wanted
• Tenderness or understanding toward myself for feeling this way
• Allowing myself to feel the loss until I am truly finished with grieving it

I am comforting myself in a way that a “perfect” parent would have treated me when I was hurt and in pain. I am reinforcing the integrity of my psyche by not denying how I really feel, and giving myself the entitlement to go through whatever I have to go through to finish the loss and move on.

How we let go

Grief is about letting go. We don’t learn that until we surrender to the reality and to our grief. At the beginning, we are afraid of the feelings, afraid of how they will feel. This surrender is always an act of courage, though it becomes easier after we have done this a few times. We do it because is the only course left to us, but many of us avoid it, staying in anger or earlier stages, because we are so afraid of these feelings.

But allowing ourselves to feel them serves many purposes. The most important purpose grief serves is to separate us from the cause of our grief. The loss.

The more we grieve, the more we realize that what we are grieving is not us. What grieves is us. The feelings are us. But the loss is not. It is something we wanted or loved. Something that we may have imagined was part of us, and the loss made us feel like less than we were. But as we grieve, it becomes more and more clear that a difference exists.

The length of time we grieve is exactly equivalent to how long it takes us to realize this. Our grief may be multi-layered in that sense. One of my greatest anguishes after my relationship with the sociopath was the knowledge that he did not love me, combined with all the reasons he gave for not loving me. Most of them were about my age and how I looked.

Grief at his not loving me was mixed up with grief about the years I lost. I met him in blooming middle age when my hormones were wild, I was vibrantly attractive, and I was at the peak of my career. My grief over him not loving me evolved to grief over the losses of age. My appearance was changing. Without being able to provide a child, my relationship with a man was never going to include the protective elements that I valued so much. My likelihood of having the type of relationship that had made me happiest –trophy wife of an older man – was vanishing. That part of my life was over.

This is personal to me, my reality. Whether it is the truth about me in anyone else’s view is not the point. It was a massive piece of how I navigated the world. It incorporated a great internal complex of “rules,” of expectations about how the world would treat me, and of accommodations I’d made to early compromises of my life. Letting it go was terrifying to me, because I had nothing to replace it.

But in grieving his not loving me, and then all the linked losses associated with it, I found them firming up in my mind. From murky anxieties and resistances and resentments, the real nature of my fear and losses coalesced. I could “look at them” and see them as something I wanted and treasured perhaps, but there was another me that was looking at them. A more central me that was measuring if I was going to die of it or if I had other resources, and that eventually decided that was then and this is now. So now what?

It didn’t happen overnight. But it got a lot healthier and a lot more direct, as a process, once I let myself cry over the loss of his love. Or the loss of belief in the honesty of his love. Or the loss of belief in him as someone I could trust or even understand. Every time I started somewhere, grieving something, letting myself feel the loss, I got to a letting go.

It didn’t matter who caused it, because it didn’t change what I was dealing with. This was between me and me, and my need to be whole, to be real with myself.

Getting stuck in grief

Sometimes we feel like we have more losses than we can deal with, and we become muddled in despair. This is obviously a time when an anti-depressant may help us manage an overload of sadness, so that we can process our way through it. But here are some other suggestions for dealing with grief that we feel is not progressing.

The single best technique I found to process grief is to follow my feelings. Often when we focus on an event that gives us strong feelings, we are not really clear about what aspect is triggering them. If we turn our attention to our feelings, essentially asking them what they are about, we can often get a clearer idea. Like I thought I was grieving him not loving me, when I really was grieving a loss of what made me lovable to men. Paying attention to my feelings helped surface those insights. (I should probably add here that in rebuilding, I found a lot of less transient things that make me lovable.)

Another technique is to listen to our own resistance to the loss. Grief that goes on and on is usually about a battle within ourselves. We refuse to let the loss go, because we have some internal rule about its necessity. Again in my own case, I was afraid of becoming hard or bitter. To be attractive or lovable, I had a rule to be cheerful, no matter what. I looked at that loss, and saw it was something I learned, not something I really believed. Letting go of that rule was one of the best things I ever did for myself.

A third technique that I used with particularly sticky losses was arguing with God. It took me a while to see that I was doing this. I kept getting stuck in anger and feeling like a victim, because I felt that I’d done my part. Even if I couldn’t trust the sociopath, my parents, or anyone else, surely there had to be some rules I could depend on. Surely God had not put me here to just be a straight man for other people’s pathologies. For me, conversations with God set me back on the right path, because God’s response was always, “What are you going to do with this? That is what interests me.”

What we learn

Grief teaches us something that literally changes our world. That is the difference between what is transient and what is not. What is us and what are simply changing circumstances.

Something inside of us endures no matter what we lose. This central self is whole and invulnerable, no matter what happens to us. A great deal of what we imagine to be our true identities are things that we learned, often through threat to our survival or rules about what it takes to be accepted or loved. We identify ourselves in triumphs or failures, appearances or things that reflect these learned rules of existence.

Grieving clarifies that we belong to ourselves. All those other learned rules may have some reason for being, some use to us. But in grief, we gain new perspectives, seeing them as more or less functional guidelines and not who we are. We are what is grieving, surviving, identifying our feelings and what triggers them. By coming home to our own reality, we become comfortable and confident in a world of many realities.

We become more authentic. We are more in our skin, seeing through our own eyes. We are also freer to build lives that reflect who we are, rather than what we are afraid of.

In the next article, we will discuss rebuilding. In the meantime, for those who are making this transition from anger into grief, I reassure you that you truly deserve kindness. You have been kind to so many other people. It is time to give it to you.

Namaste. The brave and tender spirit in me salutes the brave and tender spirit in you.

Kathy

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written by Kathleen Hawk • Permalink •

learnthelesson says:

Dear Kathy… I was actually expressing to you how I didnt think ahead or beyond letting go…yes, infact I thought that was the goal line! But IMHO, after reading this article, it IS SO IMPORTANT for us not to stop our healing journey when we get beyond the grief and thru letting go (although it is a rejeuvanating place to get to)….but after letting go is where we find renewed strength and renewed spirit and where find that we ourselves are finally turning our own darkness into light as we enter the home stretch which is the final and/or continued path toward real healing and recovery of ourselves and our lives. The most profound 11 words in this post for me, after the words “letting go”. ♡

(Report abusive comment)

Sunday, 29 March 2009 @ 6:30pm

Kathleen Hawk says:

Dear LTL, thank you for reading it. Despite my best efforts, they keep getting a little longer, and I sympathize with people who like their information in small bites. I do do. I just don’t seem to be able to write that way.

I wonder if you finished your post above. I’d love to know what those 11 words were.

Sunday, 29 March 2009 @ 6:50pm

Kathleen Hawk said

“This was between me and me, and my need to be whole, to be real with myself. By coming home to our own reality we become comfortable and confident in a world of many realities.We become more authentic. We are more in our skin, seeing through our own eyes. We are also freer to build lives that reflect who we are”

I look forward to finally becoming whole, and independent and secure in my own being – through the kindness and love and power and strength of the most beautiful gift god me – myself and people in the world who love and share and grow and learn together.

ps. Kathleen, could it be that God put you here to be who you are – and that perhaps this time of your personal life might even be another one of your most beautiful times in your life (inside and out – like your book) … and that the most wonderful relationship that will make you and each one of us the happiest in our own lives – ultimately is the relationship we find and build with our whole selves – our real selves… allowing god, our family, friends, and significant other to continually add to it!

You have a gift . And I salute the brave and tender spirit in YOU.

Sunday, 29 March 2009 @ 7:14pm

Kathy – See, if only I could edit my last sentence as you did your first! Guess I need to become an official LF author…. oh my, my run-on sentences and typs and CAPS would surely drive them away!! Ill stick to blogging …

The most profound 11 words were the last 11 words. (your own words)

“path toward real healing and recovery of ourselves and our lives”

Thats the path Ive been taking baby steps toward and finally now know where Im headed after letting go. Thank you.
.

Sunday, 29 March 2009 @ 7:19pm

So profound to me, because I thought the path I had been taking baby steps toward was letting go, that in and of itself was going to be the grand finale. While it is a GRAND pivotal moment…its also the beginning of rebuilding… so its not just about letting go – its about continuing on in reality and everything that comes with it – as we are rebuilding reconnecting with our real selves….. THE PATH TOWARD REAL HEALING AND RECOVERY OF OURSELVES AND OUR LIVES CONTINUES AFTER WE LET GO.

LETTING GO IS LIKE BEING AT 50 YARD LINE..(i.e. half way there HEADING TOWARD TOWARD THE GOAL LINE!!!

Sunday, 29 March 2009 @ 7:37pm

Stargazer says:

Kathleen Hawk,
IMO this is the best article I have ever read on this site. I feel as if you were writing my life story. First, the reason I stayed with disordered men long past when it was time to leave (to avoid feeling my inner emptiness). Second, what happened after releasing the sociopath from my life–the unending grief I’ve been going through–grief about the loss of my youth (as you mentioned), abandonment by my parents, and ultimately abandonment by myself. Grief over what my life would have been, could have been. You so hit the nail on the head. I really feel that the sociopath was the trigger to all of this but not the cause. He triggered it not because he left me, but because I loved him and so hoped that he would love me. That hope opened up all kinds of feelings. I believe I would have gone through this, even if he had turned out to be the real thing. The fact that he wasn’t seemed to pile one more seemingly insurmountable hurt to the layers of hurt I already had inside. I didn’t think I could ever get through it. When I started releasing it, I was crying it out almost every night for a month. I am still going through waves of grief. Sometimes I don’t even know why.

I use the technique you use a lot to process it. I go into an emotional experience where I don’t really understand the emotion. A good example is a dream I may have recently had. Or I also notice that I get very emotional about animal abuse and neglect. I know there is something deeper for me to look at besides my love of animals.

Just last night I had a strange dream where the main character was a younger woman who had been madly in love with a man. But he had hurt her by pulling away. The woman had just shut down her feelings. Then a very wise older man told her not to give up, that she will get her love back. The reason was (which she did not know) that the man still loved her all along but was battling with his own demons. He was planning to come back to her, and their love was destined to be stronger than ever. Considering these are all parts of me, lots of information there to work with.

Anyway, I rambled. Nice article.

Sunday, 29 March 2009 @ 8:10pm

God did send me here. I am the channel for a much greater wisdom than my own. My job is to open my heart to it and get my ego out of the way, so it comes through as “clean” as I can make it.

Caroline Myss does some wonderful writing about being a healer and about our relationship with the source. These ideas are what she taught me.

That said, learnthelesson, your comments just kind of shred my heart and put it back together again. Thank your for hearing me and for sharing your forward-moving energy. You inspire me.

Stargazer, thank you for your response and your ideas about your healing. You and I are using the our feelings in the same way, and it makes me feel so at home to listen to you.

I’ve had that dream too, or something similar. When I needed him to love me, it gave me comfort. Now, when I had one a couple of weeks ago, it made me feel like the sides of me that were still developing are getting stronger.

I think all we love each other all along. This life just makes it hard to stay conscious of it.

Sunday, 29 March 2009 @ 9:43pm

In the dream the woman felt whole and alive when she and the man were in love. But when he pulled away, she shut her heart down. (This is the story of my life, starting with my father). The man in the dream just seems like he doesn’t love the woman. But deep down he really does. He just pulled away out of fear. The woman doesn’t understand that and believes that he doesn’t love her. She sought help from a wise old man, who told her that she is about to get a surprise because the man really does love her after all. Fascinating dream. Any insights appreciated.

Sunday, 29 March 2009 @ 9:57pm

Kathy – Just keep doing what you are doing… dont doubt yourself, dont fear, and look at it this way…theres no way you will ever let it all go to your head… Oxy will flatten it so fast you wont know what hit you!!! You inspire so many who want to be and frankly needed to be, including me!

Star – One day I hope to be able to partake in conversations about dreams and thier meanings. I dont seem to have any. Or rather I may, but have no recollection. It is something I will finally get to the bottom of after Ive reached this goal line! Hope others have helpful insights for you!

Sunday, 29 March 2009 @ 10:27pm

OxDrover says:

Dear Kathy,

Excellent article, as always!!!

This articulates my own “ah ha” moment a while back when I realized that “healing is a journey, not a destination” and that so many times I have shouted “I”m healed” and in reality, I had finished the grief of ONE acute phase, but NOT “rebuilt”–I still had the same vulnerablity to the NEXT P tht came along.

Now, having realized that overcoming the grief is not the END of the “healing road” but the beginning of the REBUILDING phase, the BEST phase—I never want to go back to thinking “I am healed” or that I am “there.”

Your wonderful article (above) and all the ones before have articulated so clearly, the stages we all have or will go through in our effort to heal, to make ourselves WHOLE.

While I have “come a long way, Baby” in the last two years, in lowering my stress, accepting the losses of my “dreams” and finding new goals, new ways of looking at things in life, I do realize I still have some growth to work on.

I got an e mail today from a friend who is coming to see me on Wednesday, one of the most outstanding guys I know (not a romantic interest) who has offered me a consulting job for some of his farming projects—he is a professional “grant writer” (PhD) who works with grass roots “natural” and “green” farming proects and wants me to do some consulting work for him on some “grass fed beef projects” and I think I will! It will be a good challenge, and interesting, help people do some of the things that have been closest to my heart–preserving the land and producing sustainable food sources with low impact on the planet, as well as humane animal production.

Sunday, 29 March 2009 @ 10:37pm

Kathy, I have to agree with LTL. I feel that many of your posts (if not all) are channeled. And you are not the only one doing that here. I always enjoy coming here and getting uplifted by all the wisdom.

LTL,
I have been told that everyone dreams, but not everyone remembers their dreams. If you are on medications, (I don’t know if you are or not), that may interfere with the process. If you really want to remember your dreams, you can always put out that intention before you go to sleep. Keep a notepad and pen by your bed in case you wake up right after a dream and want to write it down. I don’t think dreamwork is a necessary way to process emotions. But for those of us with a vivid dream life, it’s a good way. Sometimes I think my dream life if much more exciting than my real life. (Wait, what do I mean SOMETIMES?). That’s probably why I have one. lol

Sunday, 29 March 2009 @ 10:41pm

Oxy, that opportunity sounds so cool, so “you.” I’m so glad that you have a good place to put your forbidable energy, and I know you’ll do good.

Thanks for the kind words. You and I agree that there is always somewhere to go. We’re never finished.

I used to wonder how I would feel about it on my deathbed, when I faced hard decisions. And I think it was an Ann Landers column that I read as a child that said no one ever regretted an adventurous life. It was not living, taking the safe choices, they regretted.

Now when I think about how I’d like to end up, it’s with all my hate finished, all my fear and anger gone. Grief is okay, it’s part of living to let go of things in order to make room for the new, and to hold some regrets perhaps close to our heart because of love lost. But then, I’m a sentimental type who never stops loving anyone.

Sunday, 29 March 2009 @ 11:02pm

Thanks Star.

Multivitamin. Thats my medication list! I know that wont go on forever..but boy oh boy do I appreciate it if ever joining a new Dr.s office. Speeds up the application process .. LOL..

I REALLY WANT TO REMEMBER A DREAM. ANY DREAM. A SINGLE DREAM. But its not something Ive ever focused on or obsessed about the fact that I dont. Rarely am I in a position where I feel uncomfortable about it and for the longest times Im unaware of it. But various times, like for example at LF alot of people share their dreams and Im reminded I dont have that special gift yet…

I will try what you suggested! Maybe it will bring a little more awareness to my dreams. If you were to ask me tho, I would say if there are a rare percentage of people who dont dream I would be the first to stand up and say YES THATS ME. But Im hopeful once Ive reached my goal, my mind body and soul will be naturally rebuilt in such a way that dreams will just be a natural part of my life down the road. Fingers crossed

Sunday, 29 March 2009 @ 11:05pm

LTL, if you are really keen on remembering your dreams, taking up a meditation practice will help immensely. If you meditate before you go to bed, you may start having lucid dreams (where you know you’re dreaming). I remember once falling asleep while meditating. One moment I was sitting on my meditation cushion in bed, and the next moment walking through a crystal garden. But just having the intention to remember your dreams could work also.

Sunday, 29 March 2009 @ 11:18pm

Star — I cant wait… it seems to magical and fun and uplifting and amazing to be alive inside while you sleep at night. Not that Im not alive, but Ive never had sleep issues in regard to hitting the pillow and not being able to fall asleep. Except with xtox – i had my fair share of staying up and crying or tossing and turning over bad memories. And within last year my deep sleep pattern has been interrupted by necessary alarm clocks (internal and external) for my sons medical reasons… but i do get 2 or 3 hours at a time. But still no memory. I really am hopeful once Im further along in my healing process and my sons blood sugars are more regulated I will be joining the ranks of dreamers world wide! Ive taken yoga, and I do pilates, but not meditation other than what I learned in yoga class. I can honestly say Im looking forward to it though. Def something to look forward to! Thanks Star.

Sunday, 29 March 2009 @ 11:25pm

Funny, in spite of my lifelong depression, I’ve alway had a very rich dream life. When I was very young I had an amazing dream that I actually wrote a story about. Then when I got into my 20’s I started having precognitive dreams. I hope you don’t think it sounds too strange, but I occasionally dream of things that are going to happen in the future. It was pretty creepy when it first started happening, and it doesn’t happen too often.

I also dream a lot of travel to far away places. Though I have never seen or read about these places, when I check out the details in historical journals, it’s pretty accurate. So I think I may either be astral traveling or dreaming about past lives.

One recurring dream I have is that I have a soul mate but I lose him through his death, and I am in intense grief over it. This dream spans several continents (once took place in India among wild ginger gardens growing in river beds) and once in the old west where he was killed by a bow and arrow. I’m not sure what all this is about but I’ve dreamt my soul mate over and over and over again, including just last night.

I’ve dreamt so extremely interesting short stories with amusing endings, and some that Stephen King could make movies about. I used to write them all down.

Like I said, my dream life is so much richer than my waking life. I don’t know whether to smile or cry about that.

Sunday, 29 March 2009 @ 11:35pm

Wow Star — you really could make a movie or tv show from your dreams…

And the nurse at school had a precognitive dream about me and my daughter. Last week. I didnt know to call it that until just now. But she said she had a dream about my middle daughter getting on a plane and traveling to California (she said San Fran to be exact).. and that I was having all kinds of silly things happening leading up to her flight like losing the ticket, or traffic or luggage fell open…just funny stuff… and she almost missed her plane. So random, esp since its the elementary school nurse where only my son attends..

I laughed and said, well your eerily close , but its my older daughter who is traveling for 3 weeks in June doing community service in San Fran. We laughed about it and I said Ill make a mental note of that one.

When I got home that day, the package had been delivered filled with details, instructions, paperwork, luggage forms, everything…and there it was strewn across the hall floor torn and shredded in a million little pieces – nothing salvageable – compliments of our new puppy! A first.

Our first glitch in the process and hopefully the only one relating to her “dream”

And about your dream vs. real life all that matters is that in both you never lose your sense of wonder… so I say smile dont cry, you have it in both!!

Monday, 30 March 2009 @ 12:01am

I really wish I could blend the wonder and passion in my dreams with my real life. I am thinking about traveling to some of the places I’ve been dreaming about, like Africa.

That certainly was a precognitive dream the school nurse had. The last one I had was a year and a half ago. I was going to San Francisco to meet up with some of my reptile friends. One guy was someone I’d met before who was much younger than me, so I never had any romantic thoughts about him. But I dreamt a month before the trip that I was in his apartment in SF making out with him on a white leather sofa. I was very confused about the dream because I didn’t think he even thought of me like that.

Guess what? When I got to SF I went to his apartment to visit with him and his snakes. And there was the white leather sofa just like I dreamt it. And the rest happened just like the dream. He told me he’d been attracted to me since the last time he met me, etc…… It was pretty surreal.

Tying this in with my other post on visualization on the other thread, I think you can “daydream” about things you want to happen and that will help make those things come true, too! Daydreams are just as powerful as night dreams!

Monday, 30 March 2009 @ 12:13am

Wow Star – That really is so cool. I enjoy reading it and hearing stories like that. Even the nurses dream caught me off guard when I got home. It was surreal for me. But to be the one who has the dream and have it come true… can I be honest….

That would freak me out ! Maybe thats why I dont remember dreams, Id have to be heavily medicated during the day if I ever had a bad vision or anything too wild! LOL

But yes I do really agree with you about power of positive visualization about things you want to happen and draw them closer and closer to you making them come true!

Ok guys, speaking of dreaming, Ive gotta at least try or have fun sleeping while Im trying. Star stay positive. Stay strong. Stay yourself on your snake website. Henry – stay HENRY — think positive — find positive – there isnt one inch of positive in your ex – so need to replace him altogether after you bury him. Dig if you have to, I did. I buried a box. It helps. Whatever helps. Who cares. …hint hint !!!

Monday, 30 March 2009 @ 12:26am

shabbychic2 says:

kathleen: Wonderful article! I have to agree with Stargazer who said “I stayed with disordered men long past when it was time to leave (to avoid feeling my inner emptiness)” so I have my hands full on this road to healing since I have used men as a way of never having to look at myself, but your article gives me some great ideas on where to start! Thank you very much!!

Monday, 30 March 2009 @ 12:41am

Chic, that comment just distills it right down. There was the hell of these relationships, and then there was the alternative, which was worse.

I’ve written before that I’m grateful it happened, because it forced me to do some long-needed work on myself. But until I wrote that yesterday — isn’t it funny how often writing brings up insight? — I didn’t really equate that terrible pain with something that was totally mine to begin with. It’s like that relationship tore off whatever I was using to avoid dealing with a lot of old stuff.

What I had figured out was that it was about the way I lived my life. That he couldn’t have gotten in, if my way of taking care of myself wasn’t so indirect. Getting someone else to take care of me. That life strategy created the mess I was in when I met him, and that mess just got worse when I got involved with him. Because other people hadn’t been all that good at taking care of me, but at least they tried. But he was exactly the opposite — he was using me for whatever he could get, and he didn’t care what happened to me. My worst nightmare.

But he was so good at pushing the buttons, when I was ready to bolt. I’ll never know how calculating it really was. It’s one of the things that other people here say about their experiences. But I have a hard time accepting that he knew precisely where my vulnerabilities were and how to play them. He was smart, but not emotionally smart. I think that he just learned me over time. Tried various things, and just kept going back to what worked. What made me change my mind about throwing him out of my life. Of course, it didn’t help that I was a total junkie in my head. Nothing, absolutely nothing in the world, was more important that getting him to behave like he cared about me.

And I was pretty simple. I wanted a few basic things. Give me positive feedback, because I needed to be told that I was worth something. Offer to take care of a few problems that I couldn’t take care of myself. And the real zinger, make sounds like he was going to stick around, to “keep me” and not abandon me. The last time he weaseled his way back into my life, he came in talking about both of us going to live in the south of France where people wouldn’t think twice about our age difference. Or selling the house and turning the money into a boat and moving to the Caribbean.

I think I still need to process that part of it. How scary he is if he really did plan it all. How unlikely it would have been that I survived at all if we were together alone on a boat. On that last chapter, he was really eager to take sailing lessons together. And he was so fragmented, it would have been entirely possible that he didn’t know what he was planning until he got all the pieces together.

In one of the next articles, I’m going to talk about processing fear related to PSTD. I’ve got that down, flashback-type fear responses. But I think I’m going to have to start another search and self-experimentation process on dealing with fear for good reason. Solid as I may sound in these articles, there are pieces I haven’t done yet, and I think this is one of them.

Whew. Here we go again.

Monday, 30 March 2009 @ 9:02am

I think your above post shows that the further along the Road to Healing we get, the more we know that we NEED TO CONTINUE ON THAT ROAD AND NOT PRONOUNCE OURSELVES “HEALED” or feel that we don’t still have “work to do” to improve ourselves, to build or rebuild.

Looking back and seeing how I have repeated a pattern, just different “faces” to the Ps, and different “roles” to the Ps, none-the-less, I didn’t GET IT that I was the one ALLOWING all this drama, and actually facillitating it by my behavior and my thoughts. My cognisent disodence, as it were. If you don’t know where the problem lies, there is no way to “fix” it. I have been spending all my life’s energy for most of my life, trying to fix the unfixable, without seeing the SOLUTION which lay so close all along, so visible, yet unseen. The problem wasn’t THEM, it was ME. Sure, they were BAAAAAD, but I refused to recognize that there was NO FIX FOR THEM, that I was the “irresistable force coming up against the immovable object.” LOL

I remember when I was a teenager and in all my “wisdom” thought I knew the answer to everything—-LOL, oh, my gosh, did I think I knew all the black and white answers to every question in the world. (hanging head in embarassment at that know-it-all teenager I was then) Now, I realize, of course that I KNEW NOTHING AT ALL, but in my own arrogance I THOUGHT I did. I remember one particular night when I was about 19 and was having dinner with my later-to-be husband, several of our friends, etc. and I was expounding on the Viet Nam war and my later-to-be-husband had such a grin on his face, that looking back I recognized was a tolerance and amusement at my diatribe, and years and years later after we were married I asked him why he had been so tolerant of such an “obnoxious, know-it-all teenager” and he said, “Yes, you were an obnoxious, know-it-all teenager, but you were so CUTE AT IT.” LOL

Now that I have learned a FEW things, the answers to a few of the questions, and even more questions, I realize just how LITTLE I really do know, and I know that I must keep on learning, I must keep on questioning. MOVE ON, from the Ps, but never “move on” blindly without knowing where I am putting my feet, I must stay on the ROAD TO HEALING, the ROAD TO RE-BUILDING, or building the person I want to be, the wise crone that all older women should be….the juicy woman, the joyful woman, who like my late husband is tolerant of the youthful arrogance in the young, without being critical, who has wisdom to share, but knows when to keep her freaking MOUTH SHUT, who knows the differences between enabling and helping, and PRACTICES THEM, who knows when a cause is lost and quits “jousting at windmills.”

A woman who can face the truth and NOT be “pithed off,” but accept the truth with internal grace.

Monday, 30 March 2009 @ 12:14pm

lostingrief says:

“One of my greatest anguishes after my relationship with the sociopath was the knowledge that he did not love me, combined with all the reasons he gave for not loving me. Most of them were about my age and how I looked.”

this certainly is particularly devastating. still having a hard time with it. couldn’t keep the young, beautiful boyfriend satisfied. don’t have ‘it’ anymore. getting old, and lumpy and gray.

but at least i have integrity. and i don’t lie. i’m not deceitful. nor a coward. not a taker. not a user. i’m not superficial. i have never been promiscuous.

i haven’t quite internalized it yet, but i think i win.

Monday, 30 March 2009 @ 5:40pm

henry says:

Hey Lost – My x was much younger – not better than me – but I relate to the feeling older cause I was….but think of it this way – their time is coming and they will never be at peace with gettin older – their youth and energy and evil ways is all they got going for them – when the sex drive wanes and they dont look good in that mirror they will prolly shoot themselve cause what else do they live for?

Monday, 30 March 2009 @ 5:59pm

point taken. but my ex is only 38 … and he looks 28. he’s got a long way to go before that happens to him. he just had a new baby with his new gf!
BUT … it is true enough that their time is coming. karma is no joke.
good to see you here. i’ve been away for a few months. i’m at 8 months NC. he still tries to call once in a while (or have an old friend call me). i never answer. never respond.
like i said, i think i win. i’m doing pretty well.
towanda !!

Monday, 30 March 2009 @ 6:15pm

sabrina says:

Kathleen Hawk, and Oxydrover, Both of your posts and contributions are so beautifully well spoken, spot on, and sooo full of wisdom.

In reading the above posts, I felt tension in my body release and I feel as tho I can breathe again- full, deep breathes of peace filled with hope. May God continue to bless you all.

Monday, 30 March 2009 @ 6:34pm

good to hear that you are doing well – so lets look at this way Lost – if you and I had never met these younger spathholes – don’t you think we would still be concerened about getting older and missing our youth? I am 54 – think I look good or OK for my age considering. But I never liked being 12 years older than him – I know people say age is just a number – but if I had had a wonderful relationship with the X I would still die sooner than him and he would then gone on to someone else also…I am trying to soothe you here and dont think I am doing a good job – hey we are alive and starting to feel alive again – yeah for that – and Lost we did win – no contact is when we took back our POWER – and that just really fucks with a sociopaths mind – so we win – and stop beating yourself up or I will get my skillit…..

Monday, 30 March 2009 @ 6:38pm

Henry,

My husband was 15 years older than me, and you know what, I figured I would be a widow for some 20-odd years, and if I don’t croke too soon, it looks like that is the case. Yea, and it “sucked canal water” but at the same time, if I never find another “love” I’m okay with that…If I had died first, I would have wanted my husband to find someone else, and knowing him, he would have had’em knocking down the door, just because he was so charming.

Around here if some woman with a nice husband is dx with cancer, they don’t wait til she’s dead before they start coming over with the casserole dishes to “comfort” him—yea, really! I am not joking! But frankly, if I had my pick of all the guys I know, could have any of them, I don’t know but one I would have and he is only 40 so a BIT too young for me…even if he was interested. (My oldest son is 39) I’m getting so “picky” now, because I am no longer “needy.” ALONE IS OKAY and better by far than a “relationship” that is not good. I just can’t imagine NOW being this picky, but back after my husband died, I sure was NEEDY and not at all picky….

Thank you Sabrina, for that kudo! ((((hugs to all my LF buddies))))

Monday, 30 March 2009 @ 6:54pm

Yes a 30 year old stud fireman with eyes of steele would be nice – but that aint gonna happen – and if I look for a man my age then being single is lookin better all the time……

Monday, 30 March 2009 @ 7:04pm

Oh Henry, Lost, -like you, my x was younger, extremely handsome, built awesome -SO UNFAIR. It was like in high school dating the captain of the football team.
He loved to “joke” saying to me “Come on Grandma” I’m 4 yrs older.
But in all his beauty- not enuf for the “pretty, pretty princess” to save his own rear end from convictions, losing his job, his home, and his church-complete with his very own adoring fan club.
All that beauty, and not a brain cell to save his own very soul- how sad.

Henry, if you are looking for the 30 year old “stud fireman with eyes of steel,” you and I may have to fight over him!!!!

I want mine to also be a pilot though, and to like outside activities, and he also has to be rich too—-LOL Yea, I think we will wait a long time to find “him.” LOL

I like you lilne “if I look for a man my age, then being single is looking better all the time.” ROTFLMAO

Monday, 30 March 2009 @ 7:10pm

my x had me beat in being younger in age but that was all ..I was the best thing that ever happened to him – does he know that? nope – but he is a loser I am a winner..Towanda~~~!~!!

Monday, 30 March 2009 @ 7:18pm

Ox you crack me up…

Monday, 30 March 2009 @ 7:19pm

very sad, indeed. they all are.

henry: not beating myself up at all. i’m pretty happy and successfully pulling out of a deep depression. he was nothing but drama. i don’t miss him very often anymore. i’ve forgiven myself for getting sooooo played. i understand that he’s one sick mofo. i’m fine alone. don’t really feel as though i need a man, but if one happens by and can pass the sociopath-sniff-test, well, who’s to say?

my sanctuary is my knowledge that i did nothing wrong. period.
when it comes down to it, my ex-spathhole-from-hell was right about one thing. and it’s true for all of us.

we hold the trump card. we ultimately say when we’ve had enough and can no longer allow the truth to be a badly-hidden secret. when we play it, the world stops. and then slowly, it starts spinning again. and we recover ourselves.

it’s as though he knew that ultimately i would never take him back again. 25 years of intimacy stopped dead in its tracks. when we throw in our hand, we win.

Monday, 30 March 2009 @ 7:20pm

ox: hellllo there. long time, eh?
glad to see your as feisty as ever!

Monday, 30 March 2009 @ 7:28pm

lost that was a beautiful post – I am so proud for you and me – I suffered nothing compared to 25 year’s but look where we are now….we did not do anything wrong – only disrespected ourselve’s by letting them use us – single is way better than what they had to offer – at least we have hope again and joy….I was just thinking today how I think I really have made it – i still have lot’s of henry issues but I did win the battle with the predator, I escaped his clutch and he had to go look for fresh humanity , someone that has no clue they are being preyed upon

Monday, 30 March 2009 @ 7:41pm

Lostingrief,
Good to see you and glad to hear how great you are doing. Towanda!

Also, people, I think you can be attractive and even sexy at ANY age. It’s about your energy and the way people feel when they are around you. I felt miserable about myself after the breakup. Now I’m starting to like myself again. I’m 48 and getting hit on by guys half my age. (One looks like Johnny Depp, and boy am I in trouble!). You will too, LIG. And I can’t wait for you to come back and post about it.

Monday, 30 March 2009 @ 7:47pm

johnny depp, eh? (on my way to the gym)

good to see you too, star!

henry: i was thinking that just the other day. he had to go to someone who knows nothing about him, his history, his b.s.
poor thing. she has no clue … and now she has a baby with him.

oy. freedom is such a blessing.

Monday, 30 March 2009 @ 7:57pm

Jen2008 says:

Oxy said: “ALONE IS OKAY and better by far than a “relationship” that is not good.”

Yeppers. After two walks on the bad side, (with the 2nd one even worse than the first), I figure I need to take Sandra Brown’s advice and wait the full two years from date of last contact before even beginning to think about dating. Before I always felt like I HAD to have a man in my life. But now I’m finding that I actually like being alone and learning what I REALLY like and dislike etc. and I’m really learning alot about myself in this “down time”. I really want to go about dating and choosing different from before and I figure to do that I have to really focus on ME and my decision making skills and boundaries and what qualities would really be important to me in a man and which ones would be deal breakers etc. .

Star said: “I’m 48 and getting hit on by guys half my age. (One looks like Johnny Depp, and boy am I in trouble!).

Oh gosh darn it, Star, this is SO UNFAIR! I’m not ready to date yet, but I sure wouldn’t mind a few young good looking dudes giving me an ego boost by flirting with me. Ok, I’ll just say it: I’m JEALOUS. (you go, girl!)

Monday, 30 March 2009 @ 8:39pm

Well, the young guys are fun for friends and flirting, but that’s about it. I had my heart broken by a few, so I learned my lesson. I’m not ready to date anyway, so flirting (mostly even online flirting) is about my speed right now. Believe me, there are lots of young guys who like older women, even in their late 40’s, though it seems hard to believe. The one who looks like Johnny Depp is in Holland and totally adorable. Thank God he’s so far away, or I’d be in deep deep trouble. He just turned 21. Waaaay too young! lol It’s fun though, and it keeps me young. ha ha ha. I am an incorrigible (sp) femme fatale.

Monday, 30 March 2009 @ 8:59pm

akitameg says:

Kathleen–
thank you so much for the article.
I have realized that one reason (there are a couple) that it is so hard for me to let go– is that I do not have a life now! I had to give up everything including my job and my DIVINE, WHITE AKITA to get away from him, blah, blah. I have lost so much– that to let go– wow–
i am in a world where I have absolutely nothing but broken dreams, bills and anger at myself and PTSD. AT 39 years old.
You just wrote a post above– were we with the same guy? No joke– the things he said and did to you. The dropping lines about being together forever– i got them every single day. Even an hour before his discard b/c of something I said.
I very much look forward to your PTSD article for that is where I am at.
Thanks again. Thanks to everyone here at LF. You are wonderful.

Monday, 30 March 2009 @ 10:10pm

Dear Meg,

BOINK!!!! YOU HAVE NOT LOST EVERYTHING, YOU STILL HAVE YOURSELF!!!! I knowit feels like you have lost everything, but whatever you lost, ALL you lost is nothing compared to YOU!!!! YOU are your most prescious thing, you are what is important. THINGS, jobs, even beloved pets, are not YOU, YOU are THE MOST IMPORTANT thing.

I know sweetie that it feels like you have no life, but BREATHE IN and BREATHE OUT—you are alive! As long as you have life in you, you have A LIFE. It may not be what you want right now, you may be hurting terribly right now, but you are GRIEVING right now, and the pain is NOT forever. I promise you, Meg, this will get better, you will start feeling like you are living again! ((((hugs))))) and always my prayers for you!!!

Monday, 30 March 2009 @ 10:23pm

Hi and thanks for all these wonderful posts. This thread is amazing.

Mine was 20 years younger than me and looked younger, though he had a powerful masculine presence (when he wasn’t playing “aren’t I you little boy toy?”, usually when I was about to toss him out. I couldn’t even imagine being with someone that young. But he was determined and I was flattered, and simultaneously completely ungrounded by the loss of my business and love partner (that he had a large part in engineering), and I fell into it.

The thing is, they all sound alike. It’s interesting how many of them were significantly younger. He was always talking about what an embarrassment it was for him to be seen with someone my age, but I was totally embarrassed by the appearance and the apparent truth that I was making the classic mistake of falling into love with a much younger man. (I’d been in relationships with much older men most of my life, but no one even blinked at that.)

If it had worked, it would have been bad in many ways, no matter how good it was. There was an inevitable infantilization involved with me being the one with the money, the power, the professional prestige, etc. He never would have grown up, because I would have been the mommy forever. (And one way that was guaranteed to pop the top of his head off was to suggest there was a mother-son element in the relationship. He couldn’t even think about it, and stalked around our place for days after a waitress told him what a nice boy he was to take his mother out for dinner. Ouch.)

But ultimately, what I see in him in a kind of fundamental incompetence at life. He was a parasite because he actually needed a parent. One that he abused for whatever previous reasons he had to be mad at the world, one that he was entitled to live off, one that he actually wanted to be loved by (even though he claimed to despise it), and one that he used to repeat over and over some drama about his own unlovability. As strange as this sounds, I used to feel like he was trying to prove he wasn’t worth loving. When I finally agreed with him, he left with a babyish complaint: “But you said you loved me.”

I don’t know if my experience is anything like anyone else’s. So I don’t know if my conclusions be relevent for anyone else. I really don’t stop loving people, and I found a lot in this man to love. But when you love someone who is so determined to prove he’s not worth it, at some point you have to surrender and let him have his own reality. And leave. Stop fooling with him. It’s not a game I want to play.

I never had a very sturdy sense of myself, or self-esteem. But he really made me think about that. How I sabotage myself by expecting the worst, and living defensively. Because that was really what he did, although the way he did it was to burn relationships with his selfishness and greed. Around him, I started realizing that I deserved better, and I needed to start living my life that way.

Love affairs aren’t the only kind of relationship. And all my relationships were lopsided. I’m still cleaning house in that sense. Restructuring the ones I have to be more equitable, or to fit into a life where my work or my interests come first for me. I think if I ever have another love affair or marriage — and I would like that, though I’m not counting on it — it will emerge from me getting really good at having a new kind of relationship that I’m just learning how to do. One in which everyone is responsible for their own feelings, but is also compassionate and genuinely interested in the other person, and pleased to know them.

I look back of my relationship with my sociopath and see how close it was to a good relationship, as well as how far. If he hadn’t been such a phony, if he hadn’t been so afraid of what other people thought, if he had been comfortable with who he was, I think we would have had a good and memorable time. He was funny and smart, and we were both adventurous people. Maybe not a marriage, maybe not forever. but something we could have enjoyed and ended as friends.

But he was impossible. And although my complaints don’t add up to the textbook description of an N/S/P, I think if these things had been different, he would not have been the self-obsessed, exploitative, uncaring person he was. But as it was, he was both dangerous and boringly predictable in his pathology. He was no one to play with.

I think I can feel this way, because I finally did make peace with who he was. He is what he is. It was never about me. I just fit into his drama. I was a target for money and sex, but I was also a stand-in for the mother than abandoned him. It made for a lot of emotional drama on both sides. And it fit into my parental drama very neatly.

Unfortunately he just got money and sex, because it was the best he could imagine. I got a lot more out of it.

Tuesday, 31 March 2009 @ 1:49am

LOSTinAZ says:

Hello, this is my first post. I’ve been reading, reading here, for a couple of weeks. All I can say is WOW and WHY? I’m not sure what stage I’m in right now. I do know that for the past 3.5 years I was made (chose) to beleive that it was all my fault. That I was the paranoid stupid bitch, and I BELEIVED it!
It turns out that everything I felt, thought and smelt was true.

I wish I could step out of my body and kick myself in the A$$.
All my friends and family repeatedly told me to get out of the relationship, and I didn’t listen. P kept telling me, “our relationship is none of their business”.

I was in “love”. I don’t know why I didn’t see this coming. I consider myself a smart person and I lost myself. I actually DID see this coming, I just didn’t beleive in myself. I didn’t listen to myself. Grrr.

My heart is broke. I’m broke. I know I need to move on. I was at a restaurant the other day, and a man came up to me and said, “you look like you need a hug, can I give you one?”. I realized what a sad sack I must look like.

I thank God for this website. It has already helped me tremendously. And Thank-you Kathy for this beautiful article.
BTW what does ‘namaste’ mean?

Tuesday, 31 March 2009 @ 8:34am

angelajohnson says:

Kathy, you are the bomb!

Your writing has helped me so much.

Thanks

Tuesday, 31 March 2009 @ 9:11am

swallow says:

Kathy,
Thank you, I have found all your articles so wise and helpful. They strike a chord with anyone who has been involved with a P.
Swallow

Tuesday, 31 March 2009 @ 9:15am

Rune says:

LOSTinAZ: The God-spirit in me greets the God-spirit in you. Namaste. We recognize each other in our shared good-heartedness and in our pain.

How could you have known that this person was that strange, that “different,” that dysfunctional? You were doing what you thought you should to build a relationship.

First, forgive yourself, and while you’re at it, give yourself a hug. And feel free to ask for hugs from here, as well. This is a loving place with many people who are committed to healing themselves and each other.

Tuesday, 31 March 2009 @ 9:16am

Hi LOSTinAZ, and welcome. It sounds like you’re in the right place. I’m sorry about what brought you to LoveFraud. But we’re all healing here, and it does get better.

Namaste is a spiritual greeting, used by people of many Eastern religions. Roughly, it means the great spirit in me salutes the great spirit in you. But you can Google it for other folks’ interpretation of the word.

I like to use it here, not only because we’re all here because we are survivors who are getting better, but because this kind of deep seeing and sharing the good in ourselves is one of the things that makes us different from our sociopathic ex’s. Did you ever look in your ex’s eyes and feel like there was nothing there, or like you were hitting a wall, or that was there was really not nice at all? That’s something most of us talk about sooner or later. “The look.”

Anyway, congratulations on getting free, whether or not you chose it. The beginning of recovery is the hardest part, but it will get better.

Everything you wrote is what I would have written five years ago. Three and a half years is a long time to be absorbing what these people put out, and it’s going to take you a little time to detox and put yourself back to together. Whatever you do now, take it easy on yourself.

They are seductive. It’s easy to get pulled in. And once they start breaking you down, it’s hard to get out. My articles are, at least partly, about the process of extrication.

It sounds like you’ve been looking around LoveFraud a bit. If you haven’t already done so, check out the articles in the archive. You don’t have to read all the responses, though there’s good stuff in there. Just reading the articles may help you feel less disoriented, and give you more knowledge of what you were dealing with.

We’re all healing, and we’re at all the stages. You’ll find lots of support here. Welcome.

Tuesday, 31 March 2009 @ 9:18am

The ‘Look”. When I read about the look, the glare, the stare, on this site it gave me chills up my spine. Creepy. And I fell for it! Any time I would say anything derogatory in our relationship, I would get the Look.

I ask myself, why didn’t I run sooner? Like the time he told me he was a Navy Seal, and I found out he couldn’t swim. And that he was on his way to the Pentagon on 9/11. I’m in a fog. I know from this site that none of what he told me was true. I’m having difficulty with that though. I guess I don’t want to believe it.

I know deep down in my heart that this is a Godsend. But now when I do talk to people, I dont know what to beleive! I can’t beleive these people can be so cold. Have any of them ever tried to get help? Can they be helped? I almost have pity on him.

Tuesday, 31 March 2009 @ 10:01am

almost_free says:

Kathy,

Thank you for such a great article. What struck me the most was this line: “Grief that goes on and on is usually about a battle within ourselves.” I really am battling with myself. When I met the S, I was at a vulnerable point in my life, and looking back I realize I wanted to escape myself. I didn’t like myself and he came along and made everything appear perfect. I no longer had to deal with myself – it was all about him. I lost myself completely. And now, he’s gone and I’m on my own with his children. I’m having to face myself again for the first time in 14 years and it’s a difficult process.

And what makes the process all the more difficult is the fact that an S/P can just carry on without skipping a beat. He barely remembers life with me; he’s on to bigger and better things. I was completely disposable. I know this and I understand who he is, but I really can’t allow myself to think about it anymore.

I have to think about myself, which I don’t really like doing. I have to struggle with who I am and what is it that I should be doing. I’m even questioning some of my friendships that were formed when with him. I don’t even think these friends are people who I would choose to be friends with before he came along.

For 14 years I was made to believe I was this different person. And now, I’m back to reality. Trying to figure out who that person is I left behind so many years ago is a difficult process. I know why I let it happen. I understand it now. It’s still just such a struggle.

Tuesday, 31 March 2009 @ 10:17am

newstart12 says:

Kathy, this is the first time I have commented after following the site since last year. I had to say what you wrote was so spot on, so good at trying to make clear what is such a confusing situation.

After trying to get the crazy man in my life to leave for the last three years, then being charmed again only to be hurt and then back to square one, I recently started to grieve, waking in the night and crying and realising that it is really not about him, he will never change. I was an easy target because of rejection by my family and an overly romantic nature that craved affection.

I have to heal myself, take care of myself, and I think this has finally started. I have my own business and although this man has tried to control me and wipe me out emotionally, using a see-saw of charm then abuse, I was lucky not to be taken in enough to let him in to my business or bank account.

My savings are gone because he has lived off me for the last four years, but I am lucky that I still have something to build on. The grief has now started to harden my resolve in a really strange way. I have said he is to leave and this time I feel strong about not falling for the ‘charm’ and the tears.

Your writing dropped in to my email this morning as if it was fate. It is such a help to know these things are being dealt with by others and I am not crazy or alone. Many thanks.

One last thing; this is not the same man is it? Lol. I was asked to sell my house and buy a boat to sail off in, but I knew even then that one day i would either come back to port and find it gone, or maybe end up over the side.

One question; why is it that we know even from the start that these are not good people, that we walk right in to it?

I will never understand that.

Thanks again.

Tuesday, 31 March 2009 @ 10:27am

Dear Newstart,

Thanks for posting and sharing, and welcome here! This is a healing place as I am sure you know if you have been around lurking and reading for a while! Glad you are here and glad you are making strides in getting this parasite out of your life! Welcome!

Tuesday, 31 March 2009 @ 11:01am

Morgan says:

Once again, Lovefraud has given me information that is helping with my struggle to be free of the sociopath’s web of deceit. Interestingly, he recently met a friend of mine through an internet dating service. She didn’t know he was my ex-boyfriend but gave me a call. Her initial thinking was…”I hope he’s not stalking you.” He asked lots of questions about how she and I met, when we see each other, when did we last see each other, etc etc. I explained those questions were only to find out how close we were to determine if he should pursue her. When their date was over he responded, “well, I guess you’re going to hear all about me.”

And he lied (shocking!!!). But the lies he told her just made it clearer to me that he was lying to me and using me. He lived in another town when we dated; so, it was easier to lie and not be caught. Now, this is my town that he’s moved to (to be near me was his reason) and it wouldn’t be difficult for people to find me (yikes) or know who I am because of my profession (yikes).

I find I’m at the stage of letting go and then pulling it all back in again…it’s like I’m playing “tug of heart” and I’m on both ends of the rope!

Thanks for this article. I’m going reread it several times. It is helpful. I’m having a difficult time accepting that someone could be so cruel to me and watch him pursuing other women. I find myself jealous while at the same time wanting to protect others from harm.

I do think, however, his life of lies and deceit may be finaling catching up with him. But that is just a thought I have because I want justice. I have to remember that justice occurs but in ways that are often unseen.

Namaste.

Morgan

Tuesday, 31 March 2009 @ 11:06am

Flagstaff says:

Thank you Kathy. Yesterday, after weeks of feeling so much pain, I asked God if he would help me. I said “I can’t do this one alone, I’m just not getting it.” And this morning, your post was in my inbox. I guess I was ready to hear what he and you had to say.

My grief is tied to abandonment. I was abandonned by my mother as a child–both in the emotional sense, and in the conventional sense. So I spent much of my life seeking confirmation that I was a good person. My own relationship–with a loving but oftentimes shut-down man–reflected my own inability to acknowledge my own feelings of fear and dispair, and so we functioned (functioned, not enjoyed life–just functioned) for a long time together.

The sociopath I dealt with was not my partner but someone else. He told me what I wanted to hear, and prayed on my need for love/fear of abandonment. When he finished using me, he cast me aside. What I was avoiding was being good to myself, and admitting that these terrible things that had happened in my past actually happened. When I read your post this morning, I knew what I needed to do.

It’s not about forgiving him, it’s about forgiving that part of myself that shut down in response to being hurt so many times. I’ll never have the love I thought I needed from my mother, and my dad, and instead now realize that I have to turn the love that I do have towards me. Towards my own heart, and in doing so, embrace the wonderful person I am. I have given love–lots of love–to many people and I’m lucky that it didn’t backfire as much as it could have. But now I recognize my “need” to rescue others, and as soon as I see someone who fits that “rescue-me” profile I walk a little faster in the other direction. I know now that I am under no obligation to rescue anyone. Rather, I would prefer to be kinder to myself, and be compassionate to the feelings of loss and grief that I am feeling. You’re right–I’m not grieving for someone else, I’m grieving the way I’ve been treating myself all these years. I have been detached from my feelings so I wouldn’t get hurt. Now I’m starting to re-engage my feelings and have an honest dialog with myself. So far, so good.

Thank you Kathy.

Tuesday, 31 March 2009 @ 11:36am

Newstart (great name!), your story is inspiring.

Isn’t it interesting how grief pulls us back into ourselves? We cry over what isn’t, and we discover what is. Us. Our reality. Our needs.

And yes, isn’t it weird how they’re all so similar? Did you ever see “Buckaroo Banzai,” a very funny movie about an alien invasion that was made in the 60s or early 70s. There were all these aliens named John trying to “pass” for humans in order to pursue their nefarious plans for the Earth, and they were all so hopelessly dopey and clumsy, because they just didn’t get it.

So both your sociopath and mine had a woman with her own business. I actually tried to make him co-owner of mine, because I needed to replace my partner. But he just wanted the money, not the responsibility. Thank heavens. But he was always trying to figure ways for me to cash out, so we could spend the money. Fortunately I never got my inheritance from my parents before he left. So I had a little money to live on while I had my sabbatical/breakdown after he left.

But my ownership of something he didn’t have, the accomplishments, relationship, ongoing education that came out of it, drove him crazy. He criticized me and it as stupid. He whined about how “disempowered” or “belittled” he felt when there was any evidence of my competence. And he got really nasty when, fresh from some healthy and reasonable business transaction that give two-way value, I suggested that he step up to being a full participant in this relationship.

I wish you well in getting rid of him, and hope it goes relatively easily. If he’s like mine, you can expect a song and dance routine with lots of different songs. You’re so cruel. I have no money and I’ll have to live on the street. No one will ever love you but me. I knew I couldn’t trust you. Maybe you’ll even get the grand finale that I got as he walked out the door, with imaginary violins playing in the background as he choked back his tears, and said, “But you said you loved me.”

I promise you’ll see the humor in time. Meanwhile, take care of yourself. They can get nasty when someone tries to take away their feed bowl.

Tuesday, 31 March 2009 @ 11:47am

Hi, Morgan.

It sounds like you have some grieving to do. Though you may have to get really angry first, because you may be still bargaining with him, yourself or the universe about whether its really true that he’s a world-class user and an unpleasant one at that.

We grieve when there’s no way around it. When we stop having difficulty accepting it, and face the inescapable truth. Then we’re sad. For what we lost. For the dream of something better that didn’t work out. Maybe even for him for being such a loser, when he could have been so much more.

I’m glad he contacted your girlfriend, and you had the opportunity to gain more insight. Thankfully you were both just able to observe and not get hurt. Maybe the truth hurts you now, but nothing like it hurts to be actively involved, still trying to make the relationship work.

I wish you Godspeed in moving from this disgusted to getting well and truly pissed about the way he wasted your time. You didn’t deserve any of this.

Tuesday, 31 March 2009 @ 11:56am

So far, very good, Flagstaff. As my therapist used to say to me (and I’m passing it on to you, because I was so thrilled when she said it), you’re on the path and moving in the right direction. Gold star for you.

I hope you’re liking the you you’re discovering. We children of abandonment tend to carry around a lot of internal criticism. We became vulnerable to other people’s rules, when we felt as children that we failed in some way to hold onto our parents’ love. I found that I could at least turn down the volume on that noise, if I decided I didn’t want to listen to it. It’s a good thing to find out who we are underneath all the rules and the internal critics. Then, we find out a reason to love ourselves, because at center, we are wonderful — aware, ready for joy, feeling the newness of every moment of our lives. It’s impossible not to love ourselves.

I hope you keep posting on how it goes for you.

Tuesday, 31 March 2009 @ 12:10pm

Thank you for your comments. I have always had difficulty getting angry because it wasn’t a safe emotion to express. But I’m starting to feel movement toward anger and sadness. I know what I must do…my intuition told me that from the beginning of the end…but the rest of my heart and mind have some distance to go to catch up with the wise part of me that says: you deserve respect, you did nothing to deserve such utter contempt, you are bette without him, etc etc etc.

I also think he represents a major “catalyst” for growth within me. It seems like all my previous losses and disappiointments were presented to me in an explosion of agony during the discard period of the relationship. Now, instead of calling him by name, I am going to refer to that experience as the “catalyst” because the change must come from within me. Catalyst, to me, implies a great sudden movement that “I” and only “I” can adjust to. I’m doing the work.

I will trust my intuition in the future so that I won’t end up in this state of agony again. This suffering is unendurable at times. But the good news is I’m coping in healthy ways and not returning to harmful strategies of the past that only makes the situation worse!

Thank you, Kathy. Your words are a tremendous help in getting through another day!

Pam

Tuesday, 31 March 2009 @ 1:04pm

kindheart48 says:

hey im so fed up im angry and im not comfortable with it but i also know it’s the only thing that motivates me into reality and helps me to not accept the shitty treatment. I want the anger to stay this time and i hope it stay s for quite some time. I will not let him know how angry if the s decides to call, he would love that , im going to not give a rats ass so to speak. My son is downstairs sick with fear as he has been waiting to get into the military and has been getting set back and with the economy he’s just so stressed and this poor kid has a degree , wouldn’t lie if you held a gun to his head and has more integrity than anyone i know an d this should not be happening to him. The s daughter called yest for ride for groceries and stupid me takes her and you know i was shaking when i dropped her off. she’s a meth addict and there was an elderly 80sjomething year old man killed a few weeks ago and she let it out that the guy who killed him gave her his atm, card, cheques pin number and some cash. She also mentioned him giving her la senza lengerie and i was sick and said why did they hav to kill that poor man and she could have cared less. She couldn’t understand why they didn’t hit the guy who had the money(one in jail now whom she says is nice and would like to visit). No concience, i was sick and i calle d her grandmother as she lives alone and said that’s it , she’s rotten to the core like her father. I look at my son and these hardships and that piece of garbage daughter and i think how could i ever have been involved with such trash. I hope they both rot in hell as they deserve it.

Tuesday, 31 March 2009 @ 4:11pm

KH, you have to stay away from these people. This isn’t just about exposing yourself to sociopathic behavior. You’re putting your life at risk. There is a difference between being kindhearted and being irresponsible with yourself. Shut this door now.

As far as the anger goes, it should be about what happened to you. The more you focus on what they’re doing, the less you’re focusing on what you’re doing with your own life. A lot of us going through a period of trying to figure out if these are “bad people,” and whether we’re allowed to think badly of them.

I’m going to try to shortcut this for you. The answer to that question is they are bad for you. Whether they are bad otherwise is their business. Your business is what’s bad for you.

Do you like being around these people? Do you like what you get back for whatever you give? Do you like the way reacting to it is eating up your life? Do you like the repercussions you are living with now?

That’s what you want to be thinking about. Go ahead and get mad at them, but get mad about what they did to you.

And I’m not sure what anyone else thinks about this, but I’d think seriously about going to the police with what you know, and asking for some protection. If that murderer knows that you have that much information about killing that man, you may have bigger problems than not liking to be around the meth-head girl.

Take care of yourself.

Tuesday, 31 March 2009 @ 4:45pm

Kindheart,

You arent making healthy or good choices. You made the choice to talk to the S daughter on the phone. You made the choice to give the meth addit a ride to the store….she even has other options for rides up to and including from a murderer who gave her the dead mans personal items…did you drive her to use the mac machine or do you also have no idea what she did when you dropped her off and waited for her???

Kindheart WHAT are you doing??? What do you want to happen or hope to come out of giving someone like her a ride –who you swore you were going NC with. What do you think will come of it? do thoughts cross your mind when you say “sure Ill pick you up”….. what are those thoughts?

Im thinking you need more intervention along with LF but I dont know what that is. It seems to be unless you can express why you are making the choices you are making – why you are voluntarily putting yourself in the middle of it – it seems to me you are going backwards and I dont want that for you… You go backward so you can say Im angry, Im mad, this that happened..and then you go right back…. when you need to be going forward and away from these people. But you clearly are having setbacks. Need a new plan… need a new plan. xoxo

Tuesday, 31 March 2009 @ 5:03pm

Flagstaff–
i can so relate to your last entry it is unreal.

I was adopted and the mother that adopted me became mentally and physically ill when I was 3!!!! I was told at five years old that my “real mommie loved me so much, that she gave me away.” My response was, “Why didn’t she love me?”
I feel and I am learning that so very much of my horrible decisions to be with an N–a P– an S– is b/c of that betrayal– those betrayals I experienced early, early on and by the women who were supposed to love and protect me most.
I learned at a young age to bury my hatred and anger at being abused. Why? Well– where was I going to go? I had to bury my alarms to survive. And– I wanted my mother’s love.
i too am working on forgiving mYSELF for shutting down my warning systems. Why did I not protect myself?
I am feeling very lonely and scared tonight. I lost everything in the physical sense to a damned liar. I am job searching. Soul searching.
And in my case– I do not know about yours- my S– blamed ME for the discard. So I constantly go back and forth about what is true– would I really still be with hi if i had not said a certain something the night his mother was suddenly dying?
You are in a good place at lovefraud. Good people. Welcome

Tuesday, 31 March 2009 @ 7:27pm

Kindheart said: “The s daughter called yest for ride for groceries….. she’s a meth addict…… i calle d her grandmother as she lives alone and said that’s it , she’s rotten to the core like her father…. i think how could i ever have been involved with such trash.”

Kindheart,
Obviously you need to go complete NC with ALL these people. I think one of the problems in my own situation was that I was ADDICTED to the DRAMA and what was happening in the P’s life. Only you can answer what may be motivating you, but it could be you are drawn to the drama and what they are all up to.

You do not owe this girl a ride and it sounds very dangerous for you to be around her at all. Also, WHY would you call the Grandmother to tell her how bad her granddaughter is and get even further all up in their business. What occurs to me (and I’m just tossing this out as a possibility for you to explore), but do you have a NEED to let the s’s family (Grandmother) know how BAD they are in order to show how GOOD you are? If that may be the case, you really are gonna have to learn to let that go to and stay out of their business PERIOD. Work on you and making your own life more interesting. I understand how hard it is to do though. Good luck.–Jen

Tuesday, 31 March 2009 @ 7:56pm

Akitameg: What if he was a crazy man pretending to be sane? And he was so good at it that NOBODY — not even highly skilled professionals — could have detected it without watching for awhile.

You said, “I too am working on forgiving MYSELF for shutting down my warning systems. Why did I not protect myself? I am feeling very lonely and scared tonight.”

How about right now you start by protecting yourself from your own self-blame. How could you have known? What if you just COULDN’T have known? You can stop one part of the abuse right now by ceasing to hit yourself over the head. (Oxy is standing by with a hug, not a skillet!)

I think sometimes that we WANT to believe that we can learn about “the red flags” and we will be immunized against ever again being fooled. The truth is that these people lie so very well that we can definitely be fooled, but we can also learn to get away faster, and place the blame on THEM instead of on US so that we can recover more quickly.

It didn’t matter what you did or didn’t say to him on that fateful night. HE IS CRAZY, and in a very, very bad way. You are so lucky you are not with him, no matter how much money he has, or how charming he can be when he’s hiding his craziness.

Hugs to you. You can do this.

Tuesday, 31 March 2009 @ 8:26pm

Dear KH,

I totally agree with Jen on this one, I just posted another answer to you on another thread, but the DRAMA you are involved in seems to be “exciting” to you, but you are the one interjecting yourself into these situations…and ONLY when you take charge of YOUR life and quit interacting with these other people will you be able to start healing.

Your choices are NOT healthy, they are not wise, and they ARE creating “drama.” As long as you are involved in the drama, you cannot heal, you cannot make “progress” even. It just goes on and on, like a hamster running on a wheel, and it gets YOU NO WHERE.

I personally realize, and I think most if not all the other people here too, realize just how painful it is to disengage from all this drama and to get back to reality….and sometimes that reality “sucks canal water” but ONLY YOU can take charge of yourself and choose your own behavior. I will keep you in my prayers. ((((hugs))))

Tuesday, 31 March 2009 @ 8:44pm

Kindheart,
I am concerned for your safety. Can you try to figure out what the allure is of these dangerous people? What was your thought process when that girl asked you for a ride?

Tuesday, 31 March 2009 @ 9:59pm

Rune–
GOD BLESS YOU!
THANK YOU for that post. I am so grateful.

maybe you do remember– my ex pulled the wool over the eyes of a psychologist (who his parents were paying for him to see).
I hate living with all of it. Wish I could call people and tell them the truths, etc. But we can’t. We would be stooping to their levels and our exes are such calculating liars– that the smear campaigns on we victims were in place before we could come up for fresh air.
thank you for the support.
I like to hear that it did not matter what I said or did that ONE NIGHT. That he is nuts and DANGEROUS actually.
thank you.

Tuesday, 31 March 2009 @ 10:27pm

Ok.I am questioning myself. AGAIN. So S has got friends of ours(his) asking me, people I havn’t spoken to for some time what I’m doing. I don’t know who to trust anymore. He Text me today, NC back.

I hate to self doubt. I am a real person with real feelings. I know that..this is so hard to do…I know that I will overcome this. This is in Gods hands. I’m not preaching, I’m just trying to figure out what truth really is.

If he really loved me he would have a conscience and know what he has done. Here I go again questioning my motives.

Wednesday, 1 April 2009 @ 12:01am

LostinAz,
I posted over on the sex difference thread about following some of the socio blogs for awhile. But I can tell you from what I learned there that NO CONTACT is the way to go, or as close to it as you can get. But you also need to try to move out of their orbit without ANGERING them if your objective is for them to finally leave you alone.

Do NOT get them any emotional payoff whatsoever. You should try to have a “whatever” attitude with them regardless of what they do (unless it is something that is physically dangerous to you, in which case immediately call 911 but do not try to “fight it out” with them. Let the authorities handle it). If it is not something dangerous, never let them see you sweat or let them even get a sniff that you even give a rat’s ass regardless of how vile they are acting or what they are saying. Act BORED as the goal is to BORE them to death so they don’t get any payoff in messing with you.

For example with your mutual friends he is getting to chat you up, don’t mention HIM at all and just act like life is lovely and talk about mundane activities you are doing so they have nothing of consequence to report back when he picks them for info. And if they ask you something about him or mention him, just act bored, maybe shrug and say something like Oh I rarely even think of him anymoe and change the subect. Let THAT get reported back to him.

Wednesday, 1 April 2009 @ 12:41am

I like that idea. The good thing in my sitch, is he is in CA for the momement.(meeting new target) But he is coming baaacckk, (supposedly) around the end of April. I am fortunate enough not to have to deal with him on a day to day basis. We worked & lived together. Not anymore.

Thats how I had the time to get to this site. Like I said in my earlier post, I just dont know who to trust anymore..How do you move on from that??

Wednesday, 1 April 2009 @ 6:14am

justabouthealed says:

In some ways you don’t, I think. I learned I needed to evaluate who I’m getting involved with at any level. One very good tool is look at how they treat others. Also, read Steve Becker’s blog…wait I’ll go look it up

Wednesday, 1 April 2009 @ 1:23pm

It’s the one on radar .
http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/.....ng-people/

Wednesday, 1 April 2009 @ 1:25pm

LOSTinAZ,

There was some good discussion on truth in the thread of my Part 6 article.

As a rule of life, it’s probably a good idea to withhold trust or stay “trust neutral” until it’s earned.

And to entitle yourself to withdraw trust anytime you feel like the person is giving evidence of not being trustworthy.

Wednesday, 1 April 2009 @ 2:02pm

Thank-you Justabout & Kathy, I will visit those sites. This is a wonderful website and has helped so greatly.

So today I was having another one of my pity parties. Sitting here saying to myself, You took my heart and soul. Then it dawned on me P was STILL CONTROLING me. It is MY choice whether to give him that. And guess what, I’m not going to let him have them. I’m going to be a stuborn Ass.

Boy, I thought I had been on a roller coaster in the Relationship, But coming out of this is the true roller coaster.

Wednesday, 1 April 2009 @ 3:11pm

What a bunch of stubborn asses we have on this site. Good thing, too!

Wednesday, 1 April 2009 @ 8:38pm

Glinda says:

I wonder if this woman will be able to heal- after shock and dismay subside. The guilt over allowing an S to hurt you is one thing; the guilt that someone else was hurt around you or in your stead is another. I don’t mean that she should feel guilty- just that it is par for the course with an S.

The line in the article that really got to me was that she was calling the victim’s families to apologize and some wouldn’t speak to her. I don’t know if that is grief or blame… She also says she wishes he had killed her instead.

(I’m assuming he’s a sociopath- a couple of traits are mentioned in the articles I’ve read following this story- and normal people don’t cowardly shoot the elderly in wheelchairs in their nursing home.)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200.....4ycEwDW7oF

Wednesday, 1 April 2009 @ 9:06pm

Dear LostinAZ,

Sometimes mutual “friends” will contact you in order to carry tales to the S/P—one of the things I have done is to be very neutral in anything I say to anyone and realize it may get “back to” the Ps that I am NC with.

Sometimes these people really do care about you. It is just one of those things that you sort of have to decide on an individual basis.

My mother is a “psychopath-by-proxy” and enables my P son (who tried to have me killed) and I a NC with her because she still facilitates him and supports him. We live actually on the same farm and when people in the community ask how I am doing, the answer is always “fine” unless it is someone I know really wants to know. Sometimes I tell them the truth that I am NC with her because she continues to lie to me and to support my P son (he is in prison).

It really just depends on the individual. I do my best though to keep information that might be used AGAINST me away from them.

As far as trusting people and figuring out who to trust, after being BETRAYEd it is difficult to learn to TRUST YOURSELF again to know who to trust, so take it slow, and you will grow with confidence as you start to reorient to reality and heal.

I am learning who to trust, and how to mainly TRUST MYSELF AGAIN….I obviously made a big mistake when I trusted them in the past, so getting over MY OWN lack of wisdom in who to trust makes me VERY cautious now. I have also set down some “hard and fast” rules.

1) no person who ever lies to me or others that I know about will ever be allowed inside my circle of trust (adults)
2) no person I see mistreating anyone or any thing will be allowed inside my circle of trust.
3) no dishonest person will be allowed inside my circle of trust
4) no person who is “UN-reliable” will be allowed into my circle of trust
5) no “drama queens” will be allowed in my circle of trust

If you eliminate any of those five types of people as worthy of trust, you will quickly be fairly free of people within the intimate circle of your trust and care, so just keep your eyes open for any of the “red flags” of 1-5 and when you see them, you don’t necessarily even have to confront them, just be like santa Claus and “make a list and check it twice” about who is “naughty and who is nice.”

Wednesday, 1 April 2009 @ 11:07pm

Amen. Oxy.

Can I add? #6)no more “rollercoaster” relationships for me. If it smells like a duck..

Whats so embarassing to me is that I’m not coming out of 1 relationship with a P, but 2 back to back. 8 yrs total. My first P was a bigamist. Thats how I found this site, 4 yrs ago on fightbigamy.com.

But 2nd P had me targeted before I could learn about these creepy people, I was vulnerable. 2 P was going to take me away from all the hurts, it felt so right, at first.

And then the “red flags” started flying.(Why didn’t I run??) I had a dear friend of mine pass away, and when his widow asked us for help moving her back from Montana, he (P#2) was more than happy to. He was more than happy to clean house. He was taking things, he didn’t need. I detest greedy people.

I could go on and on, but I don’t want to dwell on the past. I’m very fortunate compared to some of the posts I’ve read here on LF.

Btw..Beware, theres going to be a very loud POP soon. That would be the sound of my head coming out of my ASS.

Thursday, 2 April 2009 @ 7:27am

I’m still drinking my first cup of coffee, and I’ve read that last line three times. That is the most vivid take on “too stupid to live” that I’ve ever read. I’m speechless.

By the way, one of us, someday, ought to write a piece on the other things that were going on in our lives that made us vulnerable to these creeps. When I went back to look at my circumstances when this guy arrived, I had a laundry list of stressors that eventually made me forgive myself for being such a dope. (And go to work on what the heck was wrong me me to be thinking that I could or should be carrying that kind of burden.)

Your story is why I got serious about getting well. I knew that after this guy was finished with me, things were just going to go downhill from there.

He at least was good-looking, presentable and a decent conversationalist when he wasn’t working me up or down. But after I get rid of him, I found myself surrounded with a lot of guys volunteering to listen to my stories and comfort me. And gee, they were all broke, whatever-aholics, dragging around two or three hundred extra pounds, surrounded by parasitic family members… you name it. It’s amazing what you can attract when you’re that messed up.

And it’s a godawful mirror to look into. It made the choices really simple. Kill myself or figure out what was wrong with me and fix it. Because I was NOT going to engage with someone who was even more of a loser than the last one.

And if it makes you feel better, AZ, shortly after I threw him out, I woke to the fact that I was working for another one in a situation that was probably even more toxic and expensive than the personal relationship. And my “best friend” was a histrionic-dependent who was using me for free therapy for ten to twenty hours a week.

I started cleaning house, and you know, it never ended. Like Oxy says, we just keep waking up, keep drawing lines, keep working on making our lives about us.

We’re not stupid people. We just had some bad training, and now we’re redoing that. It takes a while to reorder ourselves, but you sound you’re way down the path. I think that pop happened a while.

As least I hope so. Because I’m not sure I can stand the suspense.

Thursday, 2 April 2009 @ 8:28am

I am BIG TIME on RED ALERT right now. Because here in AZ, as soon as they find out your single, the BUZZARDS start circling in. It will be an interesting journey, on what kind of people I attract now & why.

A couple of my friends keep telling me, I will go back to P. I swear I wont. I can’t handle anymore pain or suffering. I can’t handle questioning myself anymore. I can’t handle anymore lies and deceit. P said I was nuts. He might have been right on that. What I didn’t realize is, He was the Chauffer!

I think the hardest part of all of this is the NC. I would love to tie him down in a chair, put duct tape over his mouth, and tell him exactly what I think of him. But the bottom line is it wont matter to him. Thats very hard to accept.

I like the obituary post I read in a different thread.

Thursday, 2 April 2009 @ 10:34am

You talking about the “loud pop” made me laugh, we call it CRANIO-RECTAL INVERSION (head up your arse!) ROTFLMAO And I think MOST IF NOT ALL of us here have had the same condition!

The Serial-ness about how we go from one P relationship to the next is the saddest part….and though not everyone has done so, it seems to me from my OBSERVATIONS that it more the rule than the exception to go from P to P to P to P and never get the WTF is happening part.

My theory, for what it is worth is that we are do vulnerable because we are so hurt, we stay on the “road to healing” just long enough to get over the accute phase of the grief, and along comes our SAVIOR (and it ain’t Jesus!) to whisk us to happiness and BAM! We are hooked again by another P.

Since I have had Ps and enablers for Ps in my life from the get go, and in all kinds of “relationships” from my P-sperm donor and my enabling-egg-donor to at least one serious relationship with a P man (and looking back I think there have been others when I was younger before I married the first time) to a P-FIL, P-bosses, P-business partners, etc etc and my P-son….this is the first time in my entire 62 years that I have been totally free from TOXIC enablers and Psychopaths. I am working on making myself free of my own tendency to ENABLE others, workiing on setting boundaries and TAKING CARE OF ME.

Yes, AZ, it is really hard to accept that they ARE WHAT THEY ARE, but to me it is also hard to accept that I WAS WHAT I WAS as well….the difference is though, I AM CHANGING, GROWING, and they never will. I’d rather be me, than one of them.

Thursday, 2 April 2009 @ 10:55am

Joy says:

Kathleen, I’ve been away from the site busy with work and chatting with my friends on facebook. I’ve missed you all and when I saw a new article posted in my e-mail, I had to come read it. WOW! So dead on. And the tread is amazing, too. Welcome to the new posters. It has been said before but is worth repeating. This is a caring place that is filled with kind, supportive, articulate, and all around wonderful people.

Thursday, 2 April 2009 @ 3:33pm

yes i have made some big mistakes with the s and his daughter etc. and i know why. I was trying desperately to get someone to appreciate me for what i’ve done for 6 years and i made the wrong decisions, i admit it. Yesterday i was ready to give up, sick with being emotionally drained. I went to detox with a friend from program today to pick up a girl i’ve known who got inot a controlling relationship yada yada, but heres the thing. Im not a bad person, im trying to help people for f### sakes but yes i’m helping some of the wrong peopel and who is paying the price, me. Im so pissed and angry today but i got up and out of bed, didnt’ want to , but i did to help this girl but im not going to carry her. I don’t like feeling anger, it’s not a n emotion i obv deal with well, but it’s the only thing that motivates me to take care of myself so today im pissed and you know what i think i need to stay pissed. Im done giving to all these leaches and im going to take care of myself. I didn’t think yest that i would feel the way i do today but im back and if it means being pissed at the world so be it. I have a gf who just got home from 3 months away, toxic into narcotics (yes i let it go because she’s crazy and fun) she wants her vacum back etc. and i can hear the whining voice and i know who she operates and you know what. Im taking her vacum back and doing something i should have done a long time ago. I ddidn’t associate with these people when i was married 6 years ago and i shouldn’t now. I feel a little guilty for even typing this and the anger but i know it’s where i need to be to protect myself once and for all. kinkheart

Friday, 3 April 2009 @ 3:25pm

Kindheart..I liked how you signed your post! It gave me a laugh, just what I needed today.

Friday, 3 April 2009 @ 3:47pm

Matt says:

Kathy:

I read your article while I was down in Puerto Vallarta this past week. I wanted to respond before this, but trying to do so on a 3 inch touch screen is nigh on impossible.

There are moments when I flirt with grief. Then I cycle back to anger, etc. I know you have commented that cycling back and forth is part of the recovery process. I’m also starting to realize that it you’re not pulled together physically, the emotional recovery is going to be impaired.

Still, those “flirtations” are eye openers. I found myself sitting on the beach, looking at the ocean, and all of a sudden I’d have tears running down my face. I realized that I was actually starting to feel loss. And it was beyond the S and what he did to me. I found I was grieving how my parents abused me, the subsequent losses in my life because of that abuse — everything.

And as abruptly as the grief would hit, it would vanish. I kept thinking that if it would only stay and I could have a really good crying jag, I’d feel so much better. But, it wasn’t to be. I think the key thing I”m finally starting to home in on is that I don’t want to feel angry all the time and I don’t want to feel like a victim. I’ve got to reread your post because I know there is some good advice in there.

Now, if I could just feel better physically. Any suggestions would be welcome.

Hi, All.

Missed everybody. To make a long story short, last week I completely slammed into the wall physically and mentally. You know it is a really, really bad day when both your internist and your therapist tell you that if you don’t take a time out, you will be taking a permanent time out in the form of a coronary.

So, I came home, went on line, and 24 hours later found myself in Puerto Vallarta. My week consisted of lying in the sun, having a daily massage and sleeping.

I came back, feeling a bit better — problem is, I realize that I have a long way to go in healing. I’m starting to see if you don’t take care of yourself physically, you can’t even begin to take care of yourself mentally.

So, I guess I’ll be continuing the vacation schedule for a bit — trying to get a lot of sleep, trying to eliminate some of the small stressors in life (manila folders and redwelds, anyone?)

And no, Stargazer, I didn’t see any snakes this trip. Did think I saw a scorpion on my ceiling and freaked. Then I realized it was just a hook in the ceiling. I am entirely too stressed.

Friday, 3 April 2009 @ 8:48pm

Dear Matt,

We missed you and worried a bit about you! BOINK!!!! That is for not telling us you were going out of town!!!!

Glad that you are starting to process some of this stuff, though, and I can look back and remember when I started to turn that “corner”—-and there will be lots of ups and downs and curves in the “Road to Healing” now for a while, but you are on the RIGHT PATH and making progress, Matt.

The stress does do a severe number on your health mentally and physically. I can’t even imagine how I would have managed if I hadn’t been able to retire. It may be that you getting sacked at work is the BEST blessing you could have had! Time to take care of YOU!!!!

Time to get away from the spathholes (as henry says) and the jerks too!

Yes, I remember it seemed that all the griefs of my enitre life came back like “flash backs” even ones that I had suppressed the memories of, or if I had remembered them I had “sanatized” the memory some how so it wasn’t so horrible. But to me it means that you are getting over the acute grief of your X and starting to FIX YOU and find out why you were vulnerable in the first place….(((((hugs))))) Matt!!!

Hey, go look at the “amy’s law” thread, I think you need to chime in on this one, buddy! Love, Oxy

Friday, 3 April 2009 @ 9:06pm

OxDrover:

Thanks. Never have done anything so impulsive as booking a pleasure trip and leaving in 24 hours flat. Found myself wishing today that I had stayed another week. Then I realized what I’d be shelling out and realized I could spend the money and go to Greece for a whole summer for the same amount. So, here I sit in NYC.

I have never, ever felt so wretched physically. While my back isn’t nearly as bad, my joints are killing me. I suspect living the better part of my life in “flight or fight” has finally caught up with me. The daily massages were the best money I ever spent on myself. I would have married the masseur, except he was straight. Wonder if I offered to leave him everything in my will if I could get him to come up to the States? I’d give anything for a daily massage like he gave!!

Will take a gander at “Amy’s Law” article tomorrow. Didn’t get in until almost 2AM — some big storm system had everything between Dallas and Chicago running hours late.

Good to be back.

Friday, 3 April 2009 @ 9:34pm

The massages are wonderful therapy and after my husband died my son and I had several massages, wish I could have “married” the woman who game me mine too…she could have kept a BF or a husband–I would have supported her and worshiped at her feet! Ah, yes, how wonderful.

A thing you can do that will make you feel ALMOSt as good as a massage is to take a HOT soaking bath as hot as you can stand it for about 20 minutes, then lie on a bed and put ice water soaked wash cloths on your face. It works like the hot tub dip and then the roll in the snow, but not quite so “shocking,” but it does make you feel like you are “high” and is very relaxing.

Meditation, or relaxation therapy, eating right, cut down on alcohol consumption to no more than 1 drink per day or one glass of wine, decrease cigarette smoking (now is not the time to try to quit) but you might substitute nicotine gum for cigarettes at least for part of your smoking, EXERCISE moderately, but regularly…sleep or relax at least 8 hours per day but NOT more than that on a regular basis, though once in a while is fine.

Take care of YOU….it has taken me since May of 07 (with time off for Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever) to start to really get back to physical stamina and over all “feeling good” physically (excpet for the usual aches and pains of my age) and to De-stress, but when you consider that I have lived in CRAZY-ville siince July of 04 when my husband was killed, I think I am doing pretty good all together…it does get better.

My son C came back home the first week of November, and he had left here August 07 when h is wife and the Trojan Horse had tried to kill him, and since he has been home he hasn’t even looked for a job (he worked 12 to 18 hrs a day 6 days a week while he lived in Texas after the divorce) and he has worked hard around here but I can SEE the healing that is taking place. Just good exercise, eating like a horse (and lost over 20 pounds as well) doing low stress activities, and not having to meet a schedule—plenty of time to think, “contemplate the lint in his navel,” etc. It is just so good to see him relaxing and the hypervigilence going away. He doesn’t jump out of his skin any more when a truck backfires a half mile away on the highway any more.

Friday, 3 April 2009 @ 10:12pm

phoenix01 says:

This is the first time that I post on this blog. Although I can only say that you guys have contributed greatly to my still being here to talk to you.
I wanted to write earlier, but my PTSD symptoms were so debilitating that it was just too difficult to have sufficient finger control to do the typing. This was distressing for I earn my living by writing research articles and by teaching. You can imagine how I had to scramble around in order to still lecture on mathematics with my limited ability to write on a blackboard.
I am better and sometimes think I am moving closer to the letting go stage – though the anger is still there.
I am a gay man and was in a relationship with, what turned out to be, a very, very dangerous psychopathic monster. I will spare you most of the sordid details, for it may be upsetting to some. The relationship ended with his spiking my whiskey which rendered me paralysed, yet conscious ,while I was being brutally assaulted by him. Enough of that, sorry. Just writing this down makes me shudder and nauseous. The abuse was severe – mostly emotional but that evening I was asking him to leave.
Getting legal assistance was a big problem. I live in a country with arguably the highest rape incidence rate in the world. I am a tall guy and look physically strong … and this was a gay relationship. I couldn´t even get a protection order because the magistrate deemed it not to be a domestic violence incident. I could have tried the Higher Court, but that would have ruined me financially (about the equivalent of $30000). Eventually I did manage to get him to be found guilty in terms of the Intimidation Act with a SUSPENDED sentence of five years. So, needless to say, he is still stalking me. I am still dishing out sums of money to ensure that I am sort of … safe.
I life in a very safe area with 24hour security surveillance. If he is noticed within a 100 metres of my residence, he will be arrested and go to prison. I feel more safe and the PTSD-symptoms are subsiding. What an incredible relief.
I have one problem though … I wake up in the mornings with bruises on my body, sometimes painful ones. I can only surmise that I must walk in my sleep or something. This really upsets me.
Even though you do not know me, I look forward to chatting to you … the fellowship, care and loving empathy which one finds at LF is a lifesaver to me. Hugs. Phoenix01

Saturday, 4 April 2009 @ 4:52am

Dear Phoenix,

I am so sorry that you have had to endure so much abuse and the resulting PTSD. I can relate to the not being able to write, for months after my PTSD started I couldn’t read, not even one sentence. I still have short term memory problems 4 1/2 yars later, but am much improved.

Welcome, here and I am glad you have improved enough to post and to read. KNowledge of what you encountered will help you to heal. I hope that you are getting some therapy for your PTSD too.

I do not know if it is available where you live, but “Rapid Eye momement therapy” helped me tremendously. More than talk therapy or anything else did. That and Love Fraud I think saved my sanity and my life.

I really am glad that you are here, this is a healing place with lots of good support. There are other gay men here who have encountered horrible partners as well. This is an accepting and diverse group of people. Welcome!

Saturday, 4 April 2009 @ 8:57am

Jim in Indiana USA says:

Phoenix01….welcome!…and what Oxy said!

Saturday, 4 April 2009 @ 10:52am

Welcome Phoenix, I have a cat with that name. He was so abused and timid when I rescued him from the pound that I could only hope that he would rise from the ashes of his pain into a healthier happier creature. He lived for months in my gigantic bathtub only coming out for food and litter box. He is still very timid and will never be a friendly lap cat but he loves his kitty cat family and he will let me pet him if I’m really quiet and slowly approach. I hope you also rising from from your pain reborn into a happier healthier you. So sorry for what you have been through and can’t imagine. This is a very good loving place to begin learning how to heal and how to open up and express what you are feeling and what you are dealing with. The support and advice and the cheering you on as you move forward are like loving hugs from those who understand and don’t judge. But you might get boinked by a frying pan or two but done with love. I promise.

Jim, how was the trip? I have been away so long myself with work and the demands of life. I’m still up in the apple tree waiting for the brave fruit picker to climb up and share my branch. LOL! Are you still napping below it? That visual image gets me through some hard days. Helps when I’m feeling lonely.

Matt, Lucky Duck. I want a vacation. Just got off my heart monitor today. Feeling naked without it. But in a good way. I bet my doctor says mine is mostly stress with some toxic mold just to ice the cake. But I do know how the physical can delay the emotional and it is such a vicious circle. But I told a friend that I’m going to enjoy the Carolina Blue sky and live in the moment believing that it is the key to true happiness. Off to another crazy fun filled day at the job.

Sunday, 5 April 2009 @ 8:52am

Joy-the trip was good…very good! I’m recovering, napping under the apple tree again. Hope your heart grows stronger, you grow stronger, and the toxic mold of the P dries up and falls off in the sunshine!

Oh, my cat survived the boarding experience, and grows fatter and more demanding of “make-up” lap time…the last “user” in my circle…but cats do what they do…I knew what she was when I accepted “custody” in the divorce. LOL.

Joy…find joy…you deserve it.

Jim

Sunday, 5 April 2009 @ 9:10am

Ntmare says:

Seems like it will be a forever process of no contact , forgetting, missing them. Wondering to self, When we do meet someone new and I know we all will. Will we try and compare the new with what we thought was the greatest ever , will the new stand a chance against make believe? Guess as long as we man or woman keep a soft heart anyone can get in. Ever wish we could keep some of the cold and the rotten from an S? In a way maybe we should to keep a little balance.

Sunday, 5 April 2009 @ 3:51pm

Hey Jim, Glad it was fun and that you are safely back and still napping down there. LOL! Never thought of the SP as Toxic mold though he was just as bad for me. I was referring to real toxic black mold from a home that I purchased and abandoned last year. I think you missed all that while on your trip. As for our cats, I had to get the kitty spit out of my ear before work because my Alpha male cat is the closest thing to a make out session that I have had in a very LOOONG time. LOL! He just loves to lick me a little too much. But all cats are a little sociopathic in nature at least mine are. As to finding joy, Joy is my real name and I’m finding both it and myself along the way.

Ntmare, Yes it is a forever process. It has easy days but mostly hard days at first. Staying busy helps me a lot. Trying to focus on me and my wants, needs, pleasures. Hard after so many years of the focus being about him. But every day is mostly a step forward. I won’t lie and say that there aren’t quite a few steps back, too. It is a journey, a life long journey. I don’t know if I will ever reach a point where I’m beyond temptation without a doubt. Daily I have to remind myself that I never knew him that he was a fantasy that I created and he played the role to perfection at first. Then he revealed himself. An ugly beast that I did not know. It is so hard to reconcile the two hims. As to comparing the old with future new. He was my first love at 14. I idolized him. Never knew what he was back then. Reunited 20 years later he was even better. Until the mask fell off and I saw the monster he truly was. Now I confess that I like a guy. He has been showing attention. I totally love the flirtation and the attention is helping my self esteem but I’m not looking to date to hang out nothing like that. But I do know that I will never compare anyone to him ever again. I did that for a life time before the reuniting. Now he is a non entity. That is the blessing he is gone from my history. I do look to see the red flags. I listen to the voice that I once ignored. I don’t tell myself that I’m just afraid to trust. Trust needs to be earned not freely given. I will never tell myself that I’m being ridiculous or paranoid ever again. If something smells fishy, It’s because It’s fish! I will trust my instincts. I didn’t last time. I told myself to shut up because I really wanted my fairy tale but instead I got a really long bad dream with no Prince and no happily ever after. Well actually, I believe there will be a happily ever after just not with him. Now I make my own happy ending and my own dreams come true. Towanda.

Monday, 6 April 2009 @ 12:21am

Joy…I read about the house. I just think the P mold is more deadly and harder to escape…but truth and sunshine can kill it over time…((Hugs)).

Ntmare-yes, the NO CONTACT should be forever. Forgetting?…not me! Forgiving ourselves…yes. Missing “them”…not me, never again (it took a year or two, or three, but I’m there). As for the balance we need, meeting someone new…I think “gentle as doves, wise as serpents” is good advice…and go slowly. Life will be good again.

Monday, 6 April 2009 @ 4:54am

Jim, So true! And my beautiful new home is free from both toxic life forms and needs to forever stay a contaminate free zone. Only things welcome here are friends, love, and laughter! Where is everyone? Kinda quiet on this thread. Must be some really good new articles where everyone is posting. Hope to have time to check out the new articles later today. Again Jim, Welcome back. You were missed, but I tried to pick up the humor void while you were gone. Smiles.

Monday, 6 April 2009 @ 12:32pm

Dear Joy,

Yea, it has been a bit quiet lately. I’ve been working outside doing things. Today is COLD and windy, we call it “blackberry winter” because there is always a cold snap when the blackberries bloom, but this is a FREEZE which is unusual, I think will set some records here.

Glad you are doing well!

Jim, “Dogs have masters, CATS HAVE STAFF”

Monday, 6 April 2009 @ 2:01pm

Midnight_Reflection says:

Hey all – I haven’t been posting much recently, I’ve actually been getting work done while I’m in the office and I don’t get on my computer much at home anymore. With the nice weather we had this past weekend I took the munchkin out for a photo shoot in the garden of this artist’s estate that’s local to us. She was adorable in her little white cotton dress.

Oxy, your quote about dogs and cats reminded me of a plaque I saw in the gift shop at the estate, it said, “In ancient times cats were worshipped as gods… they haven’t forgotten that.”

Monday, 6 April 2009 @ 3:12pm

Dear Midnight,

Glad you are getting out and doing some things with the munchkin, and the weather is wonderful. I am “solar powered” and do love to be outside in good weather. Spring always lifts my spirits! I’ve been outside doing things too, and anxious for this freezing snap to get over with so I can get back out and enjoy it again—and this “Kansas” wind will quit blowing this far south! (I’ll pray for it again this summer I am sure!) LOL

I agree that cat’s think they are gods! Mine sure do! We are awaiting the birth of a new litter of new little “gods” even as we speak! I think that is why female cats are referred to as QUEENS. LOL

Monday, 6 April 2009 @ 3:33pm

Hi Oxy and Midnight, Thanks for the cat quotes. My cats have their own room here at the new house. I’m always looking for cat stuff to decorate it with. Those quotes will get stenciled on the wall for sure. Also Oxy, my daughter just mentioned today that she would like to plant blackberries this year. Is this the time of year to plant them? Any helpful advice as to how to tend them would be appreciated. My Dad called today from a hilltop over looking Eminence, MO. It’s the only place with he gets cell service since the house house is 4 miles from the nearest paved road but in walking distance to the Current River so well worth it. Anyway, he said there was snow. Tonight we are expecting a freeze so global warming? not feeling it! LOL!

Midnight, So glad that you are staying busy, getting that healthy sunshine which Jim claims kills our toxic SP mold. HA HA. And enjoying your beautiful child! Sounds like healing is in the air as well as spring. ((HUGS)) to all on our journey.

Monday, 6 April 2009 @ 5:36pm

Hi everybody! Hi Meg! I never made it to Sedona this weekend, I got ’spooked.’ I was accused of being paranoid for so many years that, I probably really am now.

But Meg, my thoughts and prayers (((hugs))) were/are with you.

So I’m not sure if I need a BOINK. I stepped out of the rules of NC. I actually owe S/P money. (4 days before Xmas my transmissision went out on my car, and S/P gave me the money, $2000.00. So now he is in CA. (with a new target, I hope she hasn’t gotten any black eyes yet, I mean that seriously) he text me last night demanding I pay him the money I owe him. I’m not working! He knows that! I lost my job. I’m not quite sure if I lost it because…He was driving me NUTS or everybody else NUTS. I’m was a bartender for a Fraternal organization. He was very controlling and constantly jealous.
Anyway, I did text him back last night and I said “MERRY CHRISTMAS” in caps.
I’m wondering if I’m becoming or am a S/P? He’s supposed to be back here at the end of the month and I am scared. Some of my friends keep telling me ‘you’ll be back with him’. I wish I could go run & hide. The song by the Dixie Chicks, ‘Ready to Run’ keeps going through my head.

Does anybody know if there phsyical ramifications to all of this? For the last couple of months I have been breaking out in hives.

The good thing is..I start a new job today!!!

Tuesday, 7 April 2009 @ 8:15am

Dear Lost,

In all honesty I probably would have done what you did…but that doesnt mean it would be the right thing to do. Especially when we break contact and say something cocky or entertaining….At most … perhaps the truth would be the only appropriate response…”Im recently employed. A payment will be forthcoming within two weeks. I will mail it to such and such address. Please do not contact me again” END OF CONTACT. NO MORE CONTACT. How does he know you lost your job?? Are you scared of him coming back home or scared you will weaken and see him/be with him when he comes back home..

Stress does cause our bodies to react in many different ways. Its quite possible you are having stress reactions with the hives…but you should see your doctor to make sure you arent allergic to anything else other than a Sociopath!!

You make reference to him being physically abusive as well as being in another relationship now — its time for you to make some tough decisions.. you have to address the money you owe him — and you have to remain NO CONTACT and get on with your life. He is not good for you.

If he contacts you again about the money – you may want to address it honestly and openly. And then allow no room for his response. No matter what. NO CONTACT. NOTHING. YOU CAN DO IT!! DONT GET SUCKED BACKED IN TO THE GAME — ITS SHEER HELL. Good luck with your new job today!!!!

Tuesday, 7 April 2009 @ 9:11am

Thanks Ltl. The money for my car was supposed to be my Christmas present. He gave me nothing else except a card that said “I will love you forever”!

Yes, I’m scared. I’m scared he will suck me back in. Yes he did physically abuse me. It was all my fault. I made him do it.

I have alot of his belongings in my storage. I’d like to just throw them in the garbage, because he is garbage. I’m trying to manage my anger right now!

I “sensed” he had something/somebody else going on, and confronted him. He denied, denied. And everything I “sensed” was true. He has truly turned a wonderful thing of Love into Hate. But as I keep reading on this site, I was in Love with my imagination. POP POP POP…(my head slowly coming out of my ass)

Tuesday, 7 April 2009 @ 9:40am

YOU have TOTAL CONTROL over whether or not he sucks you back in or not. He only has the control over you that YOU GIVE HIM. If you will exercise YOUR control, he CANNOT suck you back in. That’s the bottom line.

As far as his “stuff” I would separate it from my stuff if there is a mixture of the stuff in storage, get my stuff out of there, leaving only HIS stuff in there, and e mail or text him that you are no longer going to pay storage on it and that he can pick up the key from X and get his stuff, and send the address and amount for the storage fees that HE IS TO PAY if he wants his stuff. That way, you don’t have to mess with seeing him.

As for the $2000 for the car—was it a loan or a gift? HONESTLY? If it was a gift, then do not pay it back. If it was a loan, I would pay it back, even if it was $5 a week. Just send money orders (rather than a check which gives him information about your bank) but NO FURTHER CONTACT after informing him where HIS STUFF IS and that he is responsible for paying the storage or moving his stuff.

Congratulations on your new job and good luck!

Tuesday, 7 April 2009 @ 10:26am

Thanks Ox, As for the Money, HONESTLY, It was to be a loan at first +10% interest. Then on Christmas Day He told me it was my present, and I didn’t need to worry about it. Now he is asking for it. Now he is renigging telling me he never said that. I swear this man is driving me nuts!

Tuesday, 7 April 2009 @ 10:59am

Chelle says:

I just wanted to say I am glad this site exists- I was inviolved with a sociopath for 3 years and I am healing finally- he still calls but I ignore- he mentally sucked the life from me- I finally one day had a panic attack- he moved from CA after meeting me online (Christian dating site to top it off) and nothing ever made sense as to why he invited himself across the US to my state- although he found work 2 hours away– that made no sense either..and after doing online investigating — and making a couple phone calls from his home state..i was told by 2 different people that knew him that he and his longtime girlfriend moved here together!!!!! Found out the date was the same time HE moved here! SHE IS STILL HERE with her!! His name tattooed on his chest (finally removed it) he said all along it was a memorial to his sister who died at birth!! IN searching death records- it was not his dead sister at all- it was the girlfriend’s NAME!!!! HE was living 2 lives lying to us the WHOLE TIME(me and my child!!) He pretty much stalked me– called me constantly- threw fits and stormed out of my home qwith my child watching– he forged my name on guitar equipment that he does make payments on…he knows I would take him to court otherwise…I could write a novel about this one. MY ADVICE if you think even for a second you are dating someone with anti social disroder like this- GET OUT FAST. I had a panic attack one day and that is not me. I couldn’t sleep at night- you are first very confused because nothing makes sense- then you want and get some answers then you want revenge….nothing matters- their brain is not like a normal person. The book “The Sociopath Next Door” describes him perfectly. Handsome, charming and FULL OF CRAP. It helped me heal….. Good luck to you all- this is a horrible thing to fall into. LOOKS mean nothing to me if it’s the devil in disguise.

Tuesday, 7 April 2009 @ 11:16am

Hi Kathleen.

Thanks so much for your comments and to everyone else on here, you don’t know how much help it has been.

Are you sure this isn’t the same man? lol. Probably not because he really wanted to be a part of my business and has tried very hard to take over. He tells me all I want is control, derides my Degree, tells people I hate men and that I am a militant femimist. This is to someone who was with their last partner for 27 years and parted on good terms and still speaks to him most weeks. My ex re-married and I went to the wedding and I have a lot of male friends, how can he say I hate men?

I have had the weeping and bleating, ‘I have nothing, I have no where to go’ but he is already lining up an ex girlfriend and told her I am tiresome while telling me how much he still ‘adores me.’

I have bought him a van, he has packed his things, and he is meant to be going back to his mothers for a while, but guess what, he has suddenly hurt his back and is crawling around the floor crying. The first time he did this, 3 years ago, I nursed him and forgave him, and felt sorry until his ex in Holland emailed and said he did the same to her just before he talked her in to lending him £12,000 which he never paid back.

So I am torn, I feel mean, but I also feel this is my chance to get free, I feel mad!

The one thing I have done that is good is confided in my sister and my best friend. I never usually share, I deal with it, always have. I never usually cry, I’m ’strong, independent’ etc etc, all the qualities I tried to impress my father with, another abusive man.

I suddenly realised when I read an extract from ‘Tears and Healing’ that this is why I fell for him; I was trying to get my father back, trying to get him to love me. This is why it is so upsetting because I feel like I am failing again, loosing his love.

I’d better go, I’m rambling lol.

As you said, they are dangerous, I think esp now he knows he is nearly out.
My sister and her husband are very scared for me, think I should see a solicitor and log things.
Do you think this is a good idea?

Newstart12

Does this make sense? I question myself all the time now.

Tuesday, 7 April 2009 @ 11:25am

Newstart,
It makes sense to me. Also when you said you felt mean….he’s counting on that. That was a problem I had too, feeling mean or guilty simply for even trying to walk away and break it off. They play on those emotions and know how to push all your buttons. Your best bet is if you feel mean, just deal with feeling mean and STILL get rid of him. Eventually you’ll likely realize you were not nearly “mean” enough! –Jenn

Tuesday, 7 April 2009 @ 1:21pm

If he honestly said to you that the money was a “christmas present” then, I would NOT pay it back. He knows the TRUTH even if he will not admit it. If you signed a paper and he has that though, then he can take you to small claims court and get a judgment…

As for his stuff, I would do like I said, move my stuff out into another unit, and inform him (via e mail) where his stuff is, send it certified, return receipt requested, so you have proof where and when you sent it. As far as the “loan/gift” I wouldn’t even mention it in any written documents.

If there is a paper you signed and he has a copy of it, I would mail him a $1 payment monthly. See what a tacky person I am?!!!! LOL

Tuesday, 7 April 2009 @ 1:54pm

LostinAz:

Did he lend you the money in the form of a check with words to the effect of “Loan for New Transmission” or something indicating it was a loan on the Memo line of the check? Probably not.

Legally speaking, an oral promise to pay isn’t worth the paper it’s printed on. In other words, you owe him nothing. Let him sue you in small claims court.

Besides, enjoy the fact that you actually got something out of one of these creatures. Most of us have all been bled dry financially by them.

As for the junk in storage, mine did exactly the same thing with his prior ex. a year and a half later and the poor sap was still paying the storage and vowing “to win S back.” Used to drive me crazy. Now, I only feel sorry for the ex.

If the storage facility is in your name, I would tell your ex he has 30 days to get his junk out since you are surrendering the storage facility. If he doesn’t it is his problem. You may want to check with your State Attorney General’s Office to see if you have any liability or notice requirements under your state’s bailor-baille law. I would bet they probably have an on-line opinion on this issue.

If the storage facility is in his name, move your stuff out. The problem is then between him and the owner of the facility.

In either case, move your stuff out — preferably to a different storage facility so S can’t retaliate and destroy your things.

Tuesday, 7 April 2009 @ 2:16pm

I second Matt/Oxy…. if it was a Christmas present… Case closed… Cut him off at the ankles….NO CONTACT.

Get your stuff out of storage..

You have expressed some apprehension and vulnerability with him in regard to his “returning” to the area soon… we all can relate to this… and here is the hard part…making the decision and commitment to yourself to cut off contact.

That means…no updates on your new job…no entertaining any form of communication with him about anything…from the money he is texting about to the stuff in storage to the knowledge of his whereabouts. Dont get sucked back in. Stand up for youself…set boundaries and limits…batten down the hatches…GET STRONG. Be proactive, sounds like you have a month before he returns…get going with resolving the storage unit…how you want to handle the money issue…and how you are going to fade away from having and personal connection to him on any level.

Its easy for them to slither back in when we leave snake loopholes for them. No Contact is two simple words and yet two very complicated words when dealing with removing an S from your life. He is not going to disappear – you have to literally remove yourself from his life and from letting him back into your life. You have a month to prepare!

Dont let yourself be his entertainment again – before you know it he will be physically abusing you again…. STAY STRONG.. YOU CAN DO THIS. HE IS BAD FOR YOU, YOUR HEALTH AND YOUR WELL BEING. KICK HIM TO THE CURB!!!

Tuesday, 7 April 2009 @ 2:27pm

Oxy – I just read you’re about to have kittens at your farm. Yay! I love kittens. It feels like yesterday that I held my kittens in the palm of my hand, they’ll be 7 years old next Saturday. I was so sad last night, I just heard from one of my best friends that one of my sister’s cats was just diagnosed with terminal cancer. Cat-cat (yes, that’s really her name) is a sweet butterball of a calico cat, I’ll miss her. I cried myself to sleep last night. I haven’t even talked to my sister or brother-in-law about all of it, they haven’t said anything to my parents or us so I’m guessing it’s just too hard to talk about right now.

Tuesday, 7 April 2009 @ 3:50pm

Yea, we do get attached to our critters! Summer before last I lost my old horse that we had to put down, my 14 yr old Shitzu got run over (she was deaf and didn’t hear me call her to get out of the way) and then someone murdered my Great White Pyrenees guardian dog….it was a BAD year around here that summer. I’ve cried more for my pets than I did my P-son in the last few years, none of them ever tried to hurt me.

As Mark Twain said, (I believe it was him or Will Rogers) “the difference between a man and a dog is that if you take in a starving dog and feed it, it will NOT bite you.” Whoever said it, it is very true. I’m sorry about your Cat-cat, I hope her passing is not too traumatic for your sister.

Tuesday, 7 April 2009 @ 4:46pm

Thank all of you, (Esp. “My Angels.”) I really enjoyed working today. It gave me a sense of hope, it gave me a sense of betterment, plus I made some money. A good thing, makes me think, LIFE WILL GO ON.

No ‘paper’ at ALL on the Loan/Present situation. I talked to a friend of ‘ours’ tonite, and he said “How Did he leave you?”

He Left me empty inside. I dont care about “stuff” anymore.

Hey Ox, why do horses Raspberry their lips? Just wondering?

Wednesday, 8 April 2009 @ 3:04am

Sorry, HIS STUFF is in MY storage. I pay.

Wednesday, 8 April 2009 @ 3:28am

Elizabeth Conley says:

Dear LOSTinAZ,

Check your storage rental agreement. If you do not have to clean your storage unit when you leave, then simply remove your possessions and let the lease expire.

Inform the S/P/N that the lease will expire and the storage CO will have right of disposal after a certain period of time.

Let the S/P/N figure out what to do with his things, without you having to deal with him. The storage company will be firm and impersonal. You won’t be involved.

Trust me, they’ll understand. If you plead your case well enough, they may even let you rent another unit to put your things in when you leave his behind. Your situation is not unusual.

Storage units are expensive over the long haul. Think about what you’re storing, and don’t keep anything that doesn’t have sentimental value or high replacement cost. Don’t let your material possessions suck your wallet dry. You may be able to get a smaller storage unit or even pare things down to the point where you don’t need it any more.

Wednesday, 8 April 2009 @ 6:08am

Elizabeth’s advice is very good.

There is an old saying that “storage is a place you put stuff for years before you throw it away.” another one is “Stuff increases in direct proportion, plus 20%, to the amount of space you have.”

Elizabeth’s advice to go through your storage and find what you have, and see if you really even want to keep it. The reality is that a good deal of the stuff we hang on to is not of any use to us and we do, like the saying says, eventually just toss it. In the meantime, we have paid storage fees on things we never use and those fees continue to rise and rise.

Since I have a farm and we have all kinds of things for equipment, animal care, etc as well as tools for working on things, I have spent a great deal of time since I returned home in organizing and tossing, getting things where I can find them and use them if I need them. Having things you need and NOT KNOWING WHERE THEY ARE is the biggest waste of time and energy there is, and I think we Americans are the worst at that!

When I took off from the farm in my RV, I realized JUST HOW LITTLE WE REALLY NEED when push comes to shove, and just how FEW “sentimental” things I have—-growing up with my grandparents’ DEPRESSION ERA philosophy of we “might need that some day” has been both bad and good for me. I AM using many of the things I saved as times have become more economically difficult and as my 401K has vanished into the Bernie Madoff and other BLACK HOLES. But the things that have NO value or NO use are going to the dump, the garage sale, the auction, and OUT OF MY STORAGE (which fortunately is not a paid place)

This whole psychopathic experience has made me take a look at ALL aspects of my life, and “stuff” and “how much stuff” and “which stuff” is one of those things. Good luck.

Wednesday, 8 April 2009 @ 8:55am

Tood says:

Oxy,

Once again I am amazed at the similarities some of us share! I too have been getting rid of excess “stuff” all through the healing process. My grandmother was quite the Depression-era pack rat, and I learned early to “waste not, want not.” Plus, life with a P was so chaotic and filled with deprivation, I learned to amplify my already frugal tendencies just to survive. So, once I had kicked him out, I found myself near-destitute, but surrounded by things that “might be useful someday.” Lots and lots of stuff.

It’s been helpful to get rid of the excess–physically and psychologically. The physical work involved in cleaning out my house has made me healthier and the “wash that man right outta my hair” feeling was very helpful in the early stages.

When “The Thing” first began, it was early spring, and I remember looking at the blooming jonquils and thinking that I’d never feel happy again. This year when they bloomed I knew I was ALREADY happy once more, and beginning to look forward rather than backward. Even though my family was decimated, even though he will get away with his crimes. The family that remains nearby are fighting hard to stay a family, and repair the damage as best we can. And as for the perpetrator, we leave him to whatever demons inhabit him.

This year I reclaim the outdoors…my flowers, my garden, my yard, my paths in the woods. I’ve been hauling and stacking dead wood, having trash hauled away, getting mowers and machinery repaired, etc. Things I thought I’d never enjoy again I now find myself enjoying once more. Life on the other side is different. Mostly good, sometimes still painful, but at all times AUTHENTIC.

Wednesday, 8 April 2009 @ 10:06am

Dear Tood,

Yes, I totally understand. My husband was a typical “man” in that tools were his passion, and he was DELUSIONAL that he was “organized”—-NOT!!!!!!! When I first started out organizing stuff, I realized we had 16 (SIXTEEN) clawhammers. If he couldn’t find one he would go buy another! LOL Anyway, it has been a long hard process as we had several large buildings stuffed to the rafters, and much of it WAS stuff we are using now, because we got rid of the JUNK that would never be used and organized the rest, so I am able to do lots of things with building materials and so on that I couldn’t have afforded to do if I had to buy those things now….So, I am putting a lot of it to GOOD use. The stuff we don’t need I am selling what I can, dumping the rest.

I’ve got it organized into different sales venues, from garage sale, junk auction, to high end collectable auctions, e bay and so on. The guys went through the tools and organized everything, then put “duplicate” sets in different vehicles so if we break down on the road we have the tools we would probably need, then we have a “duplicate” box so if you break a tool, you go look in the duplicate box for it before you buy another.

I have my wood working tools all in a real “wood shop” and my veterinary supplies in my tack room, etc. so I too am enjoying the stuff I really can use. I also had a depression era raising as well.

I am gardening now for the first time in years, but because of my elbows (both of which have been broken) I can’t hoe, so am using raised beds, made out of scrap ground timbers and enjoying planning all these things, as well as becoming more food self sufficient. Within a few days we should be self sufficient in milk, meat, eggs, most spices and herbs that I use, and some other things as well. Plus I find things on sale and STOCK UP a year’s worth of it. I also grind my own corn meal for corn bread which we like and cookk frequently, so it will be as close to “free” as you can get if you don’t grow the corn yourself. I can get bread at the day old store for 10 cents a loaf and I freeze it. It is the LAST DAY of the date on it, but is still good if you freeze it. With the kind of bread we like nearly $3 a loaf and my guys will eat a loaf a day, that is a CONSIDERABLE savings. I feed (now) 3 people WELL for $100 a month in cash outlay, and that should go down with some garden stuff and when the poultry start to lay even more. All “garbage” goes to the poultry or the dogs, so everything is recycled. My pasture renters furnish hay to me as part of their rent for my livestock so even my meat and milk is almost free (pennies a pound).

I always enjoyed gardening and raising and preparing my own food, and for the past few years it just didn’t seem “worth it” or the energy it takes, but now I am ENJOYING IT AGAIN. I love digging in the dirt, flowers and veggies, nurturing things. I think I am a “peasant” who was born in the wrong time sometimes. I love the land and keeping it healthy and productive, I love the animals and keeping them healthy as well. It is just a good life again, and I think in many ways, happier than I have EVER been. There isn’t some “nagging fear” of “something” out there….just peace.

Wednesday, 8 April 2009 @ 12:32pm

ps. Yesterday my son D discovered a red-tailed hawk nest almost in my yard (which is mostly forest) which is very unusual for them to nest so close to people. He picked up a hand full of juviinle feathers underneath it, so they have apparently raised at least one clutch successfully there.

My parrot, Oliver, “does” the hawk’s cry so I know it has been around quite close for some time. Neat-o!

Wednesday, 8 April 2009 @ 12:35pm

Your story about the red-tailed hawk just made me think about my walk through Central Park this morning. As I was walking through Strawberry Fields (John Lennon Memorial) I was a cardinal in the middle of a patch of jonquils, snowdrops, violets, crocuses and daffodils. The red, yellow, white and purple combo was absolutely gorgeous. A harbinger of Spring. Then, it STARTED SNOWING!!!

Anyhow, I continued through the park. As I hit Fifth Avenue, I glanced up at one of the buildings, and saw the hawks which have taken up residence, swoop down into their nest. One of them was carrying a dead pigeon. Of course, while I applaud their efforts in pigeon eradication, it is a losing battle against those rats with wings. Still, it was a really amazing sight.

Regarding getting rid of clutter — living in NYC where storage bins are expensive forces me to keep it to a minimum. My rules are simple:

(1) for every new thing that comes through the door, one old thing must go out;
(2) unless it’s a signed first edition, I will never read a book again, so once it’s read, it goes off to the “lending library” next to the laundry room;
(3) you wear 20 percent of your clothes, 80 percent of the time, so if you haven’t worn it in a year, you will probably never wear it again;
(4) go through your closet and batch our clothes by color and with the hangar hook facing toward you. Each time you wear the piece of clothing, rehang it the normal way. End of 1 year, any hangars still facing you are proof you haven’t worn it;
(5) if it is in storage and doesn’t have sentimental value, ask yourself if spending 1200 bucks a year to store a table worth 200 bucks is a wise way to manage your money;
(6) get rid of all articles torn out of papers and magazines. You can find it online;and
(6) if you can’t identify what’s on the plate, it has no business going past your lips. This is very effective for (a) cleaning out your refrigerator and (b) a good rule to live by in the case of airline food.

Wednesday, 8 April 2009 @ 1:49pm

Sounds like you are a sensible man! Good rules! I got rid of all the clothes that don’t fit (a bunch of them) then cut down to what I will reasonably wear–a church dress, a funeral dress, a go-to-the-doctor dress—the rest is “around the farm” wear. The “good things” that I have (especially winter clothing) I pack into two cartons (I have plenty of storage room now) and get out carton A one year, and carton B the next year. These wonderful wool sweaters etc. should last me the rest of my life.

I do read books again, but am becoming more selective about what I keep. I have many reference books that I use occasionally, mostly medical, that I keep, but have donanted a great many of my history books that I used for research purposes for my living history group, or for the three local history books I wrote and published, to our local library.

I am OCD about keeping old business records, but they are in plastic tubs, labeled and sealed (and BTW they have come in very handy in the past with the IRS etc.) The kids can chunk them when I am gone and save the tubbies.

I very much agree with your #5 rule!!!!

Someone once told me that “hoarding” is a sign of greed, and in some ways I think they are right. I know lots of people that are “hoarders” of the most outlandish things in the world that they NEVER use, and live in DELUSIONAL STATES about it all.

I’m not a “neat freak” by any means, but I want to know where my stuff is so I can find it when I need it, otherwise no reason to have it. With my short term memory problems now, it just about HAS to be that way or I am continually looking for things.

Even “sentimental” things are not so much sentimental any more. I gave away all the gifts that my “egg donor” had given me through the years—just didn’t want them any more. Why should I look at something every day that just reminds me of her? I asked my sons if they wanted them and when they declined I gave them to people hwo would enjoy them as objects not just as “sentimental” things.

Most of the stuff we save as “sentimental” things we don’t look at once in 10 years and when we die our kids don’t know who all those people in the pictures and old high school annuals are anyway…so I’ve even been chunking a lot of that kind of stuff. I get a box full of it and let the guys go through it and take anything that they want, then toss the rest.

Decluttering my life is a good feeling, and all the neatly labeled boxes in the closet so I can find things is reassuring that my life is assuming some order now. I didn’t realize how many of some things I had and I donated a lot of them to the tornando victims last year as well. I had bunches of almost or new sheets, towels, etc. and enough cook ware to start a college kitchen, so out it went to a good use for people hwo lost everything. I only need two sets of sheets per bed, and a few towels, it isn’t like I don’t have a washing machine and they last almost forever anyway.

Now I have room enough in my kitchen and bathroom cabinets to store what I really use and need.

I think the chaos that we have lived in for so long has effected us in more ways than one. I never had the energy before to even CARE about all this crap and stuff, now I have energy to tackle it and I CARE about how things are rather than just saying “Oh, I’ll take care of that later.” LATER IS NOW!

When we are so physically and emotionally TIRED from the chaos and pain of our lives with the Ps, just sapped out of all kinds of strengths nothing is important to us, even order in our lives. Having energy and the ability to FOCUS it is a new thing for me right now, it has been years since I have felt so energetic and it is getting better and better over the last year. If I get any better I won’t be able to stand myself! LOL

Wednesday, 8 April 2009 @ 2:38pm

One of the few decisions I came to when I was in PV was that I would have less stress in my life if I bought redwelds and manila file folders to sort out the stuff related to the job search and the IRS audit I’m going through. Hmmm. IRS audit, job loss and relationship with a sociopath. All I need is the bluebird of happiness to swoop in and make this picture complete.

It’s funny, I’m finding the more stuff I get rid off and the less I have to maintain, the happier I am. I have a beautiful watch collection. Not the time to sell, but when the economy picks back up, I’m sending them to auction. They are beautiful pieces, but everytime I have to take them in for repairs, I break out into a cold sweat out of fear for what it may cost me.

I agree with your chaos theory. I always say that my mother’s kitchen cabinets are a metaphor of her. The kitchen is completely orderly on the surface, but you open a cabinet drawer and the junk cascades out on you. Actually, now that I think about it, S’s apartment was cramed to the rafters with junk, and he kept acquiring things, even though he didn’t have two nickels to rub together. Since my drawers and cabinets are organized, I’ll assume that I’m more ordered than I give myself credit for.

Wednesday, 8 April 2009 @ 3:15pm

Matt, my house usually looks “lived in” but not dirty or too cluttered, and I clean and de-clutter at least a couple of times a week most of the time. When I am really depressed though, Ii don’t do anything, don’t care about anything. It gets pretty “bad” by my standards.

When I am feeling well, and energetic, unless I am in a big declutter mode (which I am right now with bankers boxes stacked by the front door which are labeled to go to the auction) it is usually ready for company at any time. Different people have different standards of what is “clean” and what is not. I’m not obscessive about it but do want it “sanitary” at the very least, and not a lot of “stuff” out of place. I know people though whose house and environment is so cluttered that it is impossible to “clean” around it, and they actually just have little “pathways” between rooms. I can’t understand how they can live like that, and it makes me wonder WHY?

I saw a show on PBS once about people who are compulsive hoarders, and there are actually support groups for these people, and apparently it is an anxiety disorder, and if they get rid of their stuff they go into an anxiety attack. I’m not talking about those people who have a “real problem” with their anxiety, but it does make me wonder about others who have so much stuff. My old college buddy that I recently told to kiss my grits because he broke his word to me, lives like that. Stays broke all the darned time because he is continually buying stuff at auctions or projects (BIG projects) that he will never complete. He bought an entire metal house and it is delivered, but he never has enough money to build the foundation much less get it assembled. He “thinks” he can put it up himself (he is 65 years old and has no equipment or knowledge to do this job, much less the money to do it with) so it makes me wonder sometimes why he runs his life “emotionally” rather than logically. Emotionally he apparently wants to do this, but logically, the “ain’t no way” it is gonna happen.

I actually DO complete projects, though not always as fast as I would like, but don’t hang on to things there is no way I COULD complete with either the funds, knowledge or strength I have.

Yet, in other ways, I was as (or more) “delusional” than my buddy, because I kept my P-son “project” and there was no way that was going to be “fixed” LOL I guess we all have our foibles and our emotional blind spots. ROTFLMAO

I “need” (logically) Fat and Hairy like I “need” another hole in my head, but they give me pleasure and hearing them bray in the mornings is better than a rooster crowing!

Wednesday, 8 April 2009 @ 4:59pm

I’m thinking right now, (” I needed”.) I hate that fact.

What I KNOW, now is. I’m going to be okay. I have a wealth of so called friends. I think, I may, end up believing in them.

Today driving home from my NEW job, I sensed a despair and Acted on it. I cried all the way home. I can’t believe that I, at 47 yrs old has fallen for this crap.

A Friend of mine’s/ours son was seriously injured in an accident( no acc inssurance) on Sunday. He will make it! I hope, I pray. One of my ‘real’ friends found him basically, dead , after his Quadding accident. She is blaming herself.

N/C w P. So, I want to donate P’s things from MY storage
for the Benefit on our friends behalf. I will put his name on all and give him the noriority that he always wanted. Do you think this is a bad thing to do? I feel it is the right thing to do.

Thursday, 9 April 2009 @ 2:03am

LOST: That sounds a bit like “selling the Porsche at the garage sale for $15,” but it sounds like a good cause!

At 47 y/o if you got fooled by a mental disorder that has been fooling researchers and mental health professionals for at least several hundred years, then you should pat yourself on the back! Good job! You figured it out EARLY!!!

This wasn’t even about you “needing.” This was some person with a twisted brain who looked real, but really isn’t in the same reality as the rest of us. Cry, rage, congratulate yourself for figuring this out . . .

And if you’re going to donate those things for charity — that might be a good out! Just make sure it doesn’t come back to bite you.

Thursday, 9 April 2009 @ 2:37am

Dear LostinAZ -

I often wondered what in the world the people on the highway thought was wrong with me whenever I would “lose it” in the car. There was a good stretch of time, I would be driving and a song would send me over the edge or just a thought of all Ive been through — and I would let it out. Think it was some of the best therapy I ever gave myself! Sunglasses help alot too !

Im so sorry to hear about your friends son. My prayers go out to him and hope you are doing ok.

As far as donating the P’s stuff – I dont think its wise to do. I think it will lend toward greater trouble for you.. perhaps even unnecessary legal trouble if he gets angry enough. Not to say he will win, but he just might get angry enough to do something drastic. You may want to consider giving him notice in writing to have his items removed by the end of the month, and if they are not removed that you will donate the things for charity. Thereby giving you legal coverage…. again the point is to avoid him having a reason to come back and haunt you — by you “donating” HIS things without him knowing sets up a whole new can of worms.

Sometimes the NC rule can be broken by means of legal notices or intent to collect, etc. And the reason to inform him now that he has 30 days to remove his stuff or donating it….. means you are getting a head start on the inevitable contact. Because once you donate his stuff without telling him, he inevitably will contact you for his stuff and you will have to tell him you donated it — and then the drama will begin.

So, yes there is a way to accomplish donating his stuff…once you’ve given him notice and he does not adhere to the deadline.

Thursday, 9 April 2009 @ 6:58am

I agree with learned. While your friend’s son is a “good cause” the thing is that by letting him have his stuff in your storage and by you agreeing therefore to “care for” it, he might even have a legal case. If you NOTIFY HIM that he has 30 days (get a return-receipt letter) and THEN he does not get his stuff, THEN you can donate it to anything safely.

My suggestion is to get another unit and move your stuff out if you decide you need to get a place to keep your stuff in, because if you let him get into a “mixed” storage he will either purposely hurt/destroy or steal your stuff just for spite (I don’t need a crystal ball to predict that one! LOL) so I would move anything I wanted to keep OUT so there was nothing but HIS stuff in there, and give him the 30 days, and then have informed the management that it would not be paid any more. That way I think you would be “off the hook” legally AND “morally.”

I have some stuff in a storage facility that is my facility, and I had been letting the store the stuff there for free and I intend to tear down the facility starting June 1 (part of the roof blew off) and I gave them notice that they needed to have their stuff out by that date. They acknowledged that they would (that was 60 days ago now) they have made no effort to do so, and actually I don’t expect them to do much. But at that point, it is off my back. They are “hoarders” and most of the stuff they are hoarding is JUNK, though some of it is not. But there really is nothing there of any real value. But the point is that though I tried to “help out” these people, they expected me to take responsibility for their storage of their junk, and ENABLE them. I set limits and boundaries, however.

Many times people whe are Ps will NOT respect your boundaries, and these people though NOT Ps still did not expect my boundaries, so I have had to ENFORCE the boundaries and I will continue to do so. No extensions on time. I will simply remove the doors on the facility on June 2 and the stuff will be “open” to whoever wants to come in there and steal it. So if that doesn’t prompt them to get it and it disappears, too bad.

Thursday, 9 April 2009 @ 9:19am

Thanks guys, for the inspiration. I’m leaving today for Sedona just for Overnite but getting out of here even for one day will do me some good. I have to work Sat, otherwise I’d like to get out of here for GOOD, forever. Hopefully I will find the so called vortex thats supposed to be there!

Hey Meg..are you out there? I will say prayers for you..I pray to hear you sing.

Namaste

Thursday, 9 April 2009 @ 10:40am

In a severe depression. the therapist I have only seen twice– is on vacation in England.
I want to call my ex. NC since Oct., but what does it matter? I miss him and I truly loved him and I have not been happy since.
I hate to say this to you all– but life has lost all of it’s luster.
I do not want to be here anymore.
the pain is relentless. even went to apriest yesterday. force myslef to do things. move forward. pray.
I only feel pain. No joke.
I miss him every single minute. it makes no sense. was it real or not? was he real? was it really my fault it ended and that I now live in another state with no job– no anything and no “love’ feelings towards my exhusband.
but i have no money. No job. no hope. No “family” and nowhere to go.
I truly want to die.
so why would it matter if I called him or not?
why do I feel if I called there would be some type of closure or talk or something? Does he miss me?
Hell– the closre should have come when he discaraded me- but of course I still think it was my fault cuz e did not do it til I pissed him off.
The pain never, ever, ever goes away. I do not want this anymore.
i am not trying to scare any of you.

Thursday, 9 April 2009 @ 11:40am

pathwhisperer says:

akitameg: The only thing I know of you or your situation is this one post. If he is a socipath, there is utterly no hope of a closure through communication. Our instincts can’t handle what a sociopath or a narcissist can dish out. It’s like they’re reading from some alien playbook, while we try to fit their actions into our understandable world. Which is infinitely frustrating. So I guess the question is, is this wish to communicate with him a wish to try one more time to fit him and his behavior into the normal emotional universe, or is it in fact a part of the normal emotional universe? If he is a sociopath, the closure, if it happens, will have to be onesided, yours, as you realize the person was actually never there. Whether this is the situation, I hope you can determine.

A relationship with a narcissist can actually be more tragic than one with a sociopath. Narcissists actually have souls, and could, theoretically, make the human choice — furthermore the bereft lover will realize this instinctively. But narcissists have made the choice a long time ago and at a very deep psychological level. I’ve never seen one change.

This economy is hurting people on so many levels and I blame sociopathic greed. I’m sorry about your situation.

Thursday, 9 April 2009 @ 12:56pm

akitameg:

I can relate to having your life completely upended. In the last 6 months I have lost my job and lost the man who I loved and mistakenly thought I loved me. While I haven’t had to relocate yet, I have done enough reading to know that these are all major stressors in life.

I think you are taking the right steps — seeing the therapist, looking for a job, forcing youself to move forward. Does your therapist have someone covering for him while he is out of town? If so, you may want to give him a call. Also, has your therapist put you on meds? If so, it does take several weeks for them to kick in, so that may account for your down mood.

Also, I can understand the wanting to call. I had to fight down the urge to text mine a few weeks ago while I was waiting for my flight to Mexico. I was going to “misdirect the message” by preteninding I was texting somebody else.

I stopped because I asked myself the question “what is this going to accomplish?” You need o ask yourself the same question. Because, I suspect, in your gut, you know that if you call him, not only is he going to go for the jugular and make you feel even worse, you are going to hate yourself even more if you make that call.

You are never going to get closure. Personally, I believe the concept of closure is a load of crap. It boils down to this: I dump all my emotional stuff all over you. And then, you retaliate and dump your emotional stuff all over me. And on. And on. And on.

I was talking to my therapist yesterday. And one of the hardest things for me to wrap my mind around is the fact that S does not miss me. Hell, I don’t even think I ever registered as a blip on his radar. The minute we weren’t together it was out of sight, out of mind.

Does that hurt? Absolutely. To know that I was nothing to S but a source of supply kills me.

The only closure you can get is the closure you give yourself. And that is what NC is all about. YOU are taking control. YOU are setting the parameters on what is acceptable and not acceptable.

Hang in there, sugar.

Thursday, 9 April 2009 @ 12:58pm

gogettergirl says:

It sounds like you’re having a hard time of it today and it’s important for you to know that you’re not alone. We all have felt your pain and know deep down how hurtful it is so I’m going to give you some advice a therapist gave me once when I was really low.

There’s 2 things you need to do when the pain gets really bad. First, immediately plant both feet on the floor and pay very close attention to the things around you. Look at a painting, or the phone or the car in front of you. Notice the color, size and shape and try to pick out some defining detail about it. Doing this will ground you and stray your mind away from your memories. It’s very important that you keep doing this until the pain subsides.

Once you get past the ruminations, keep telling yourself what a wonderful kind and loving person you are. Just remember that there’s nothing wrong with you….it’s just the murderous instinct of a sociopath to inflict pain. It had nothing to do with you. We’re all rootin for you and will keep you in our prayers.

Thursday, 9 April 2009 @ 1:06pm

pathwhisperer-
thank you– you’ve got me thinking. I do thik mine was more of an N.

i feel like I could call and hear him say he misses me too and that the ending never should have happened. But my friends and therapist said– he wouldhave ended it sooner or later- as oxy says–
if i said the sky was green and it was blue.
this is a ightmare.

Thursday, 9 April 2009 @ 1:47pm

matt–
thank you. but what if he did NOT go for the jugular?
what if the nice guy was back?
not the one that discarded me the nite his mom died– and then– after being with me for two years– not even wanting or needing me at funeral or ANYTHING. Just his henchmen family. I did not exist.
But- he says it was my fault for calling him so much when his mom was dying– but I had just overheard his wicked bro saying lies about me to him- as to come between us. and influence his bro to dump me b/c i did not own a home (All of them are trust fund adult children! They have never even had to work!) Of course I was upset.
So he dumped me b/c of my reaction on phone.
never needed me or wanted me around. this is hell.
So I am taking control in NC? why does it not fee that way?

forcing myself now to drive an hour and stay with a girlfriend our of town.

Thursday, 9 April 2009 @ 1:54pm

gogettergirl__
thank you for telling me I a not alone even though i feel I am.
if it had nothing to do with me– why did he discard me after I made him angry? and after mommie died and he was up for millions in inheritance and she hated me– as did the rest of his drunk/children of alcoholic/borderline/narcissistic family?

Thursday, 9 April 2009 @ 1:57pm

I know where you are right now because I’ve been there myself. Please don’t blame yourself for his horrible behavior. He’s a pig. I think it’s great that you’re no long with someone who obviously gets a kick out of making you feel bad about yourself.

DON’T GIVE HIM THAT POWER AND DON’T GIVE HIM CONTROL. Walk away. go out and see the sunshine. You’re a beautiful person inside, you’ve just lost that part of yourself. Don’t let him define who you are.

Thursday, 9 April 2009 @ 2:11pm

“What if he did NOT go for the jugular?”

If he doesn’t and “plays” the nice guy, it will only be a strategy because he thinks by playing that way he can still get something out of you. Steve’s post today regarding “sociopathy and perversion” lays it out perfectly. They are incapable of not exploiting people.

The thing that you are doing — that we all do with these creatures — is try to believe that there is some good in them.

There isn’t. The most they are capable of is “ACTING GOOD.” It’s an acting job, plain and simple. And since you are a professional actor, you know exactly what I am talking about. I used to write for TV, and I know all about how breaking a script down works — partnering with emotions, the intention behind a line.

And it took me a long time to realize that is exactly how sociopaths work us. They mimic human emotions. Our mistake is buying into it. I still remember toward the end when mine let loose with a great show of emotion in a public place. Tears, sobbing, the whole bit. Thing was, as I watched him I was a bit disengaged, and I realized “this is an act, and not a particularly good one, since there is no real emotion partnered with the words.”

You saw the “REAL” him when he was kneeling on your neck forcing you to take the blame. That is the man you need to focus on.

Regarding the brother — you clearly stumbled into a true case of “folie en famille” or family madness. If his brother isn’t a sociopath, he’s completely warped by his contact with your S/N. I used to see the same thing with S’s family. He pulled their strings like a puppet master. Why would you want to subject yourself to that?

Thursday, 9 April 2009 @ 2:13pm

One other thing to remember is that there are a lot of other people out there who are kind and gentle and who would love to get to know you. You just have to find them. Your ex is a terrible man who manipulates and exploits people because that’s who he is and you just happened to be in his path. He’s gonna do it again to another person. I’m glad you got away. Sounds like his whole family is psycho.

Thursday, 9 April 2009 @ 2:52pm

I used to tell my kids, “A STUPID question is one that you ALREADY KNOW THE ANSWER TO”

“What if he did NOT go for the jugular?” Meg, you KNOW THE ANSWER TO THAT.

You are sitting there with my skillet BOINKING YOURSELF over and over. You know he is a piece of chit! WHY are you doing this to yourself? NOW QUIT THIS AND GIVE ME BACK MY SKILLET! You KNOW he didn’t discard you because of anything you said. You KNOW he discarded you because you were never anything to him. NO ONE is “anything” to HIM.

Now you stop this crap right now! We’ve all been there, but you do NOT deserve this. So he quits boinking you, so you boink yourself? NOT ON MY WATCH!!! Now you be good to yourself!!!! Or else!!!! ((((Hugs)))))) and much love and all my prayers!!!!

Thursday, 9 April 2009 @ 3:03pm

Meg,
Y ou are not alone- you have the greatest support system here but more importantly Jesus is here for us with open arms.

He cries for us during our grief and tribulations and is here when no one else is. KNOW that everything that happens to you as a child of God is filtered thru his loving hands. YOU ARE IN A MIDST OF A TRIAL.
Take comfort IN THE FACT that our Soverign Lord already sees the final results of your suffering.

Be assured every trial has a beginning and an end.
As you draw near to God He promises to walk with you THROUGH the trial…. to the very end.

We are reminded of His promise in II Chron. 16 9, “For the eyes of the Lord run to and fro throughout the whole earth, to show Himself strong on behalf of those whose heart is Loyal to Him.”

Does God care?
He says in Luke 12 “the very hairs of your head are numbered. He also says that not one sparrow is forgotten before Him and You are of more value than many sparrows.Believe with your whole heart. Ask Him to help your Unbelief if you are struggling to believe in Him.

He says”ASK and it will be given to you, seek and you will find, knock, and it will be opened to you. Luke 11 9.

When God is silent, He is not still. His involvement and interest in our lives CANNOT BE JUDGED BY OUR CIRCUMSTANCES.

We measure His involvement by 2 things:
The development of our character and
The fulfillment of HIS PLAN- GOD WILL US ADVERSITY to Accomplish His Will in our Lives.
Hang in threre, Wait on Him, He may be quiet but he has NOT Quit on YOU!

Thursday, 9 April 2009 @ 7:34pm

jelltogether says:

I am reading the comments by akitameg and can relate. Every time I think will it be different this time if I talked to him. It is so easy for me, when I get really down, to want so badly to hear his voice but that is just fooling myself because he Never has the reaction that I need. He just wants to get off the phone those times because I NEED something from him and he can’t handle it. It just makes you feel worse. I am still struggling with the depression of realizing that he does NOT miss me at all because his life goes on without a beat. That is the nature of the beast. It still hurts me so bad.

Thursday, 9 April 2009 @ 8:23pm

jelltogether:

I agree. There is no hell like knowing that you gave and gave of your heart and everything else, and it means NOTHING to these creatures. Didn’t mean anything then, and doesn’t mean anything now. I’m getting better each day. But, it still hurts.

The thing that is best for us, NC, is a 180 from what we think we want/need — contact with these subhumans.

I was talking to a friend of mine who has a friend who was involved with a sociopath for 4 months, and two years later she is still wrapped up with trying to figure him out, dancing to his ridiculous demands, taking every one of his ridiculous pronouncements to heart. I told my friend that the best thing her friend can do is go NC. She agrees — she logged onto this site. But, she’s realized that until her friend finally sees how much destruction her S is doing, she will continue to sit by the phone, waiting for her “S fix”.

Thursday, 9 April 2009 @ 8:35pm

Meg I know you are probably sick of self help books but please read The Betrayal Bond by Patrick Barnes – { Betrayal. You cant explain it away anymore. A pattern exists. You know that now. You can no longer return to the way it was (which was never really as it seemed). That would be unbearable. But to move forward means certain pain. No escape. No in-between. Choices have to be made today, not tomorrow. The usual ways you numb yourself will not work. The reality is to great, too relentless…}

Friday, 10 April 2009 @ 12:27am

Spanky says:

Akitameg:

Do not give up. Do not give in to these feelings. Don’t let what he did you you determine who you are. I know this is so hard. Been through it too.. You have to realize that this is not about you. This is his shit and you have to develope a shit-proof teflon-like exterior. You are the captain of your ship NOT HIM. As long as you keep thinking this way, you are allowing him to continue to control you. Why give him that gift? What I realized with my S is that once he snapped and moved on, he was completely done with me. Nothing I felt made a difference to him. He didn’t care that I hurt like hell inside.

Think about what he has done to you. All the pain. Is this jerk worth your life? Of course not. Do not give him that. In time the pain will ease if you are working toward that end. THer is life after the sociopath. Work your way through this and strive for happiness. RELY ON GOD.

Friday, 10 April 2009 @ 8:07am

Akitameg,
I have been where you are. I couldn’t take his abuse anymore. I felt that I had lost everything. But then I realized that it didn’t matter to him whether I was alive or not because he would just go on doing what he does. But it did matter to me. You can get back from this. It will hurt so bad for a while and you want to die but the little part of you that wants to hurt him by your passing–remember this–it will NOT hurt him. He may have a little moment but ultimately, he will say “well she was just crazy anyway” and go on with his ways. Their filter doesn’t allow them to FEEL what they have done.
I lost my kids, my home, my money, everything to this guy. And you know what, I have survived. I have had good people come into my life. Do I still struggle–yes a lot. I still miss his voice, I miss the company. I miss the fantasy most of all.
So don’t think that your precious life is worth less because he is gone. You are worth it, you will recover, there are no real fairy tales. You are a good person and good things will come when you get over him. Just breathe.

Friday, 10 April 2009 @ 8:35am

Skippy says:

Hey, everyone–I’m a new member and just wanted to introduce myself on this thread. Some of you I’ve already met. Just wanted to say, this is an awesome post. The wisdom and insight contained are so very welcome. I’m really appreciative of all the discussion about what I can do as a former target to heal and move on and not stay wrapped up in obsessive thoughts about what the SP in my life did and why. I do think that perhaps some traits we targets share are that we want to understand why things happen and that we are all committed to fairness and justice. The fact that these betrayals don’t make any logical sense given how well we’ve treated our ex-friends, lovers, partners, etc., that the SPs have evidently have an emotional and neurological makeup that none of us have had so we can’t even imagine how they see the world around them, and that often, their targets are the ones who are left broken and seemingly punished while they go on their merry way, is just very very hard to reconcile in both our minds and our hearts.

One of the things that I find helpful on this site is the encouragement and tools to let go and move on. It was really weird the other day when someone on the highway almost sideswiped me trying to pass a car on the right in between two lanes (where there was no place for me to go to get out of his way) is that even if that driver could have known how furious I was at him, he either wouldn’t care, or he would get off on it. That realization somehow just made it easier to let go of my anger, because I DO NOT WANT such people to feed off of that and have my distress make them feel better.

I was seeing a good therapist for EMDR for a while (very helpful; I do recommend it–though, the FIRST therapist I went to see was a good friend of the SP in my life, aaargh!!!!) and I asked her if it was possible to control our emotions. She said no (which is what I was feeling), but that our emotions derived from our thoughts and beliefs, and we did have control over those.

So I have been working very very hard to erase and replace the old mental tapes that you all refer to, especially in this wonderful post–thank you, Kathleen! –instilled by my narcissistic parents, that I’m worthless and a burden and don’t deserve kindness or consideration, etc., etc. I’m making a conscious effort to put something else kind and compassionate toward myself in their place. I didn’t believe these thoughts at first but I’m finding that repetition and perseverance are starting to pay off. I’m not a Christian per se (way too eclectic of an upbringing) but I do believe that our lives are a gift from God or the Cosmos or whomever. And that this entity does love us and wants us to be our best selves. And that we honor this being by thriving and being happy. And He/She will help us if we ask. I think for a long time, I was so tense and barriered in trying to protect myself that I wasn’t allowing in the help I asked for.

But now things are a lot better. I hope this might be of any help to any of the people in the early stages of their healing process. I feel like I’m in the middle, maybe. It’s a lot better here.

Hang in there, Akitameg.

Friday, 10 April 2009 @ 11:12am

One more comment for you, Meg – when I was suffering deeply from PTSD (there were a lot of traumatic events that happened all at once, the betrayal from the SP the icing on the cake, but deliberate! The other things were more like things that just happen. The deliberate part of his cruelty made that so much harder to take than some of the other things that would seem like a much bigger deal on the surface), I was very numb. Numb for months. Nothing gave me pleasure. This is actually part of the healing process (I really recommend EMDR) after a terrible trauma and that is what this is. Going back to someone who does not have your emotional health at heart will just keep old wounds fresh and set you back. You are worth taking care of! Keep telling yourself that until you believe it! And be patient with yourself, no matter how hard it is; it really will pay off eventually.

Friday, 10 April 2009 @ 11:37am

Akitameg, i have been right where you are many times and the reason i was right there is because i had again tricked myself into thinking that the pain would go away if i contactedhim and the truth is it did for a brief period, one or two days but then i was worse than ever. Each time i made contact it set me back more , drained me more and irronically set me up to miss him more the next time. I know the pain of wanting to make it go away and the thinking that if i just call hiim it will but heres the key it only works temporarily for about as long as when i was drinking alcohol. While i was under the influence the pain was numbed but when i sobered ( just like when the devaluation, lies etc. came again) i was back to remorse, low self worth. I like you think of him and saw him twice yestereday (Murphys Law i swear) and i havn’et been in no contact long (only 2 weeks) and it pissed me right off as i am still thinking he is pretend guy (even though every logical other piece of my mind knows exactly what he is) but i want so bad to beleive in the illusion still but i know i have to give it time. This last time with the contact nearly did me in physically and mentally. I can hear you are in a lot of despair and i know how that feels and then we get the thnking that they care for us and will take away the hurt when in reality it is the opposite. Im reading the book “the Betrayal Bond” and they describe the Stockholm Syndrome so well in that we confuse thinking tha t our Saviour is really our Captor and that is right on the money with my s. I was so ticked ans still am that i’ve wasted all these years and energy and now im the damaged one who can’t even imagine having a man right now but i have to take some responsibility for going back each time. You have done amazingly well with the no contact and you like me can see that it will be of no benefit to contact him, but you are looking for the anesthesia to numb the pain like anyone else would be doing. Im so proud of how long you hav e been in no contact and it shows me that we are never really out of the woods but like the compulsion for alcohol it comes back at times but they have a saying that has gotten me through alot in AA ” This too shall pass” and it will Meg , you are going througha rough time and in the valley so to speak but a peak will come but not from the bad guy. Don’t give up before the miracle. You will come out of this stronger . You know what you really need deep down so go to that place and see exactly what it is you think will help you whether it be meds , therapy, maybe even find someone else who could use some help to maybe get you out of yourself. If you have the energy that is. Big hug from me and will be checking to see how you are doing. love kindheart

Friday, 10 April 2009 @ 11:42am

sorry reading above post we think Captor is Saviour. don’t want to cause any of us any more confusion . hah kindheart

Friday, 10 April 2009 @ 11:44am

Welcome, Skippy, after your “formal” introduction. We’re all on the same road here…

Friday, 10 April 2009 @ 12:29pm

Dear Skippy,

I second Jim’s welcome, glad you are here, and I too benefitted from the rapid eye movement therapy after I suffered PTSD after the accidental and sudden death of my husband 4 1/2 years ago, then the later “attacks of the Ps” solidified it (READ: kicked me while I was down and out). I too highly recommend the therapy for PTSD as I think it did more for me than any of the other therapy I received.

Glad you are here and hope that you stay around and continue to profit from this wonderful place.

Friday, 10 April 2009 @ 12:51pm

Thank you, Jim and OxDrover.

Yes, I, too got kicked while I was at the lowest ebb possible. With all the healing I’ve done and the more I hope to do, I don’t know that I will ever get over the amazement that someone (especially someone who pretended to be a friend) was actually capable of doing that. I’m sorry that happened to you, OxDrover. But like many here, I do think that this horrible experience gave me the kick in the pants I needed to start healing on a very deep level; something I’d only approached with half measures before.

Friday, 10 April 2009 @ 3:00pm

Yep, Skippy, that seems to be the way it goes with many of us, we have needed healing from a deeper level all our lives (or we wouldn’t have put up with this chit in the first place) and hopefully now that we are getting over the worst of the acute grief of the P-attack, we can get on down to that OTHER LEVEL where we needed to be healed in the first place or we wouldn’t have been such “suckers” for the Ps in the first place.

Even with “serial” Ps in my life, I never got past the stage of healing the acute grief before “moving on” and not digging deeper for what MY problem was, now I think I am getting there, but it is a long and difficult road, but fortunately I think I’ve reached a place that the worst of the pot holes and ruts are a bit smoother now than when I first got on this road. That first “step” is a doozie, so you gotta get through that part before you can do the REAL deep fixing that I know I need.

Glad you are here. Each of us adds a new take on things and it helps to have different opinions, ideas and each other to validate our journey! Welcome!!!

Friday, 10 April 2009 @ 3:23pm

swehrli says:

Meg: I too wanted to die. The betrayal, the nasty things that were said to me once he was found out (living with another woman in another state, while “waiting for me”). NC is the way to go. I thought that I just wanted to hear his voice, see if things would be “different” somehow, but in the end I always wound up hurt.
Everyone on this thread has had some great things to say. It all has helped me tremendously. I hope you find comfort in these words as well.
Take care of yourself.

Friday, 10 April 2009 @ 3:27pm

Oxy,
I just dropped in to thank you for recommending the Victor Frankl book “Man’s Search for Meaning”. I just checked it out from the library and cannot put it down. I also just got “Betrayal Bonds” from the library and look forward to reading it. The Frankl book is affecting me on a very deep level and I’ve been feeling the urge to “tell my story” lately, not so much as a collection of events but what I learned from those events and how they made me the person I am today. But maybe another time in another post. His message is very clear that it’s not what you have been through or the outward circumstances of your life that give you meaning. It’s how you interpret those circumstances and what you choose to make of them. He survived several years in a concentration camp, so it’s hard to take his words lightly.

I’m sitting here with my beautiful male 5′ Guyanan redtail boa constrictor draped around my shoulders dropping in to say hello. This boa is very nervous when first taken from his tank. He has bitten me a few times in the past out of nervousness. But after I hold him for about 10 minutes, he calms right down and loves to cuddle. We even cuddle up and watch movies together with his little head resting on my chest peeking out underneath the blanket. It’s now been about a years since I’ve been bitten. Yes it’s true–snakes can be cuddly. He is one of the “littlest loves of my life”, as I call my animals. Cuddling them and spending time with them makes me so happy.

My mortgage company gave me a 6-month forbearance period on my mortgage starting in May. During that time I will decide if I want to do a short sale or ask them again to restructure the loan. It’s been stressful. I’ve never NOT paid my bills on time in my life, so it’s not easy to do this especially when I still barely have the ability to pay. I will be banking the money and maybe trying to move in October to a place that is actually worth what I am paying for it.

No new sociopaths in my life, thankfully. My horoscope says this weekend is good for love and romance. So far there are no love interests on the horizon. I did have a long conversation with the guy from Citimortgage yesterday. He was flirting with me and even talking about coming out to Denver from Maryland for a visit. I’m trying to stay open and not close any doors. But I just don’t feel like I’m 100% ready for dating. I still have a lot of issues to sort out. It’s coming up on the year anniversary since I met my S’Path. I saw his user name on another reptile site in the member list today and froze. Then I realized it was someone else using that name. Totally different profile. Unless he’s pretending to be a totally different person. Who knows?

Love to all, and a special thanks to Oxy,
StarG

Friday, 10 April 2009 @ 5:00pm

Akitameg,
What you are experiencing (as I’m sure you know) is a trauma bond. It is a form of an addiction where you feel you will die without this relationship. Like everyone here is saying, he is very bad for you, no matter how he is acting. A genuinely loving person would be torn up by what you are going through and would never put you through it. I have been where you are at and I don’t know what words could have comforted me at the time. Your life has value, even if you don’t feel it. It just does. Many others (and many on this site) have been where you are at and have broken the addiction. You can, too. If you know in your mind that he is bad for you, you have to use the power of your mind not to give in the the compulsion. The emotions will eventually catch up with your mind. It takes time. You are breaking an addiction and this is a form of withdrawal. You know that phrase, “what doesn’t kill me makes me stronger?” Meg, don’t let this kill you. Cry, hit pillows, scream, write about your feelings on here. Do what you need to do but PLEASE don’t go back to the bad man. You deserve so much better than that! Please don’t give up on yourself.

You were in my thoughts last night when I was reading the Victor Frankl book, “Man’s Search for Meaning”. There were a few key phrases I wanted to post just for you. I may have to go back and find them.

Friday, 10 April 2009 @ 5:43pm

Dear Star,

That book was such a powerful one for me! He was so right on, and such a caring man inspite of how he suffered. Finding meaning in such suffering is difficult. His outlook made me realize that each of us has had ULTIMATE PAIN, just as he had ultimate pain, and that pain acts like a “gas” in that when it is put into a “container” it expands to fill the container entirely. What a wonderful analogy. Even a little bit of “gas” expands and fills the entire container, just as even a “little” paiin fills our beings ENTIRELY. He was such a wise and understanding man. After he got outl, he devoted his life to understanding and helping others who were also suffering.

When I think of him, I think like the old saying “I cried because I had no shoes, until I saw a man who had NO FEET.” Sure, my suffering and torture didn’t approach the level of his, but MY PAIN ABOUT IT DID. I don’t have to feel ASHAMED because I FELT that my pain was “as bad”–BECAUSE IT WAS AS BAD. Before his book, I actually felt ashamed to hurt so bad, “how could I hurt so badly when others have lost and suffered more?” Well, he VALIDATED for me that our pain is unique to ourselves, and we have a RIGHT to feel that pain. To feel our suffering and NOT be ashamed for it.

How profound is that? PROFOUND!!!!

Friday, 10 April 2009 @ 6:17pm

Dearest Akitameg,

I feel I must speak to you from my heart, as my best friend did to me. Words that came from her heart and ones that reached mine and enabled me to make my own decision.

Each and every one of us has to do what is right for us with regard to our relationships in the moments of our lives. We may turn to others for advice, but at the end of the day we must do what is right for us. There was I time when I was as close to where you are as I had ever been. My girlfriend allowed me to listen to myself, and at the time I was in an unhealthy way, I was lost, I was low. She told me to follow my heart but to do so with the AWARENESS that I was potentially going to hurt more afterward. I didnt want him back, but I wanted to talk to him.

I AGREE WITH EVERYONE HERE…WITH WHAT THEY ARE SAYING…AND WHAT THE RIGHT THING, HEALTHIEST THING IS TO DO…BUT MEG, IF YOU NEED MORE TIME TO GET THERE….IF YOU JUST NEED TO DO SOME FORM OF CONTACT FOR YOUR SOUL, FOR YOUR PROGRESS, FOR YOUR BEING, AND YOU CAN DO SO KNOWING THAT IT IS PART OF YOUR HEALING JOURNEY, THAT HE IS BAD FOR YOU, THAT HE IS NOT THE ONE FOR YOU AND THAT HE IS NOT SOMEONE TO MEASURE YOUR LIFE OVER. PLEASE DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO GET YOU PAST THIS WHATEVER IS RIGHT FOR YOU.

If there are words in your heart, in your soul you wish to say to him or express to him with regard to the relationship…not questions that require answers…but words of acknowledgement that its over and you are trying to get strong each and every day and are experiencing set backs… or whatever it is…please know we have all been there AND DONE IT…we have made contact, had setbacks, reached the lowest of lows until it was right for us to realize and accept and see and admit we were on the wrong path with the wrong partner.

I guess all I am trying to say is we all get there at our pace. Some of us made contact over and over until the realization and pain was more than the actual effort of contemplating the contact… It became secondary to our desire to move on.

Akitameg, I dont think I will find much support with the advice I just gave…but I believe it helped me create a path that was unique for me. We are all different beings, different souls, different journies – same common link of assoicating with someone who wasnt healthy for us in our lives, someone who brought us down IN THE RELATIONSHIP, someone we couldnt grow with no matter what. I chose to write him. And I did so with the absolute awareness that I was writing for myself and my healing I was not writing for reconciliation or any hope of getting back together. I just needed to say things and feel I was heard. But for all I know he never opened the letter.

I did what was right for me. Not living was not an option for me. I just wanted to live knowing i respected myself enough to listen to my limitations. I needed to write him in order to leave him. I didnt ask why questions > or what happened questions- I just spoke my peace, to help me find my peace.

Not wanting to live or go on is something more than him bigger than your relationship with him Akitameg – it is a depression – it is something that affects us in ways that get ahead of us. He cannot make it better. But if it will make you feel better to get through something you otherwise feel you have lost control of – being grounded again – then do whatever it takes to get you through this. If it ultimately is a minor setback, we all are here for you, we will always be here for you. You are never going to go through this alone. Please dont give up on the journey we are all taking together…in different places… in different ways…but with the same goal…to find ourselves again and be the ones who make the choice to have self-respect, self-trust, self-value, self-worth.

WE ARE HERE FOR YOU- UNCONDITIONALLY – THERE IS NOTHING YOU COULD EVER DO WRONG – EXCEPT TO NOT TAKE CARE OF AKITAMEG. XOXO

Friday, 10 April 2009 @ 6:56pm

Stargazer,
Can you expound on the trauma addiction? That point really hit me. I have always felt that this thing with my S’path became an addiction of my own. It is hard to describe to other people because they don’t understand how you can be really addicted to a person.

Jelltogether,
I found this term in the book Betrayal Bonds, which I am just starting to read along with the Frankl book. Basically, we can become addicted to people who have traumatized us, who are bad for us, try to please people who have betrayed us. There are so many examples in the book. We can even get to the point where we feel we cannot live without that person even though he/she hurts and abuses us. When I read more, I will share, especially the way out, which is discussed at the end. I would refer you to the book to learn more. I guess I was hoping to put some “parentheses” around meg’s experience to let her know that what she is going through is a documented phenomenon and that it does have a way out.

LTL, I loved your post. I gave a LF member the very same advice a few months ago. I actually felt she really did need to contact her S in order to have closure and told her that. She ended up writing him a letter and having a phone conversation with him. Naturally, he played his ridiculous games with her on the phone, but at that moment she realized what he was and was able to let go. I don’t think your advice was bad at all. It’s hard to know how to advise people in these situations.

I also had a massage client who was attracted to unavailable men. She had become hung up on this one guy who was ignoring her, playing games with her, and possibly was married. She knew she needed to stay away from him. But for a YEAR she obsessed over him. No guy she dated matched up to her fantasy of him. I actually advised her to contact him again and bring him back into her life, but cautiously. She did. When he started playing his games again, she finally “got it” and was able to let go.

You are right. Sometimes, we need that one last time. I’m so afraid that Meg, in her despairing state, will let him back into her life to hurt her again. I hope that does not ever happen.

Oxy, that book is having a similarly profound effect on me. I will write more about it when I am done reading it. I’m about half way through. I really do believe that it is up to us to define what gives our lives meaning. If not for defining this and redefining this for myself all the time, I would have committed suicide a long time ago. After all, I’m middle-aged, unlikely to ever marry, poor as a church mouse, with no family, and near foreclosure, underemployed, and just a little to weird to have many close friends. But I keep finding things that my life is about, even if it is just about inspiring others to overcome adversity. I have made something from nothing again and again. I am very proud of my resourcefulness. And I often question my thoughts and attitudes. If I see an attitude I like better than my current one, I will adopt it. I’m proud of myself, my life, and my suffering. And I intend to help others with their suffering, too.

Friday, 10 April 2009 @ 7:39pm

Stargazer said

“I really do believe that it is up to us to define what gives our lives meaning. If not for defining this and redefining this for myself all the time, I would have committed suicide a long time ago. After all, I’m middle-aged, unlikely to ever marry, poor as a church mouse, with no family, and near foreclosure, underemployed, and just a little to weird to have many close friends. But I keep finding things that my life is about, even if it is just about inspiring others to overcome adversity. I have made something from nothing again and again. I am very proud of my resourcefulness. And I often question my thoughts and attitudes. If I see an attitude I like better than my current one, I will adopt it. I’m proud of myself, my life, and my suffering. And I intend to help others with their suffering, too.”

You are going and growing leaps and bounds… I want to keep up with your pace…its contagious!!

Thanks. I really enjoy your posts Stargazer…one thing…you arent weird… you are UNIQUE! As you wrote about your snake around your neck, and cuddling with your lil baby…I thought wow! if I ever do get to Colorado for a cup of tea with Stargazer I just might actually let her put her snake next to me if the tea is spiked!!!!! ) A fear Id love to overcome!!!

As for where I am in life in general….the greatest lesson thus far for me….if I am unable to be strong and confident and weird (oops Unique) and self- everything from a to z ON MY OWN/BY MYSELF- then I will never be able to be any of the above with any partner. It is up to me to create the life I want for myself and trust the rest WILL fall into place because Im finally doing what I should be doing – focusing on myself my well being my happiness and helping others too.

Thanks for sharing your journey Stargazer.

Friday, 10 April 2009 @ 8:08pm

LTL,
I really do hope you will come visit one day. One thing you won’t find in my house is spiders. I’m terrified of those. ha ha.
Yes, I am definitely unique. Just like everybody else. LOL But don’t sanctify me just yet. I’m still struggling with some very deep wounds that haunt me and come out in my daily life struggles, like with the situation of the loan to my friend that has not been repaid. But I have gotten so much good advice here and different ways of looking at these situations. I hope everyone here knows how much they have helped me.

I really like the idea of telling our story–who we are, what we have been through, but more important, what we have LEARNED from what we went through. I am formulating my story in my head as I lay down to sleep on nights after I’ve been reading Victor Frankl. How many of us have been knocked down over and over, maybe even since the day we were born. And yet, we’re still standing. To me, that has meaning.

LTL: you sound to be on such a good and healthy path. I’m glad to hear you are focusing on your own happiness and well being. I couldn’t agree more about standing on your own two feet. I learned to be self-sufficient from a very early age, but never let go of that secret desire for someone to take care of me and reparent me. I’m finally doing that myself, too. So I hear you loud and clear.

Oh, and trust me, I’m about as weird as they get. I say “Wakey wakey, little snakey” to greet my snakes every day. What’s so weird about that? They don’t even have ears!

Friday, 10 April 2009 @ 8:24pm

Stargazer,
Thanks so much for sharing that term and the meaning. I think that exactly describes how I have been. I was in the midst of trauma when I met my S and was a victim of child molestation. What a perfect storm for him to come into my life. The part about “wanting to please the person who has betrayed us” is so dead on. I will pick up the book and thanks again for clarifying!!

Friday, 10 April 2009 @ 9:09pm

You’re welcome. I’ll have more well-formed thoughts after I actually read the whole book. I know I have some of that as well with some of my former abusive family members.

Friday, 10 April 2009 @ 10:52pm

Star: I have to get that book. That’s me when you say: we can become addicted to people who have traumatized us, who are bad for us, try to please people who have betrayed us…I haven’t had contact since February and it truly was an awful thing. Since then he has harrassed and threatened me by phone until I put a block on my number. I have written a letter much like what LTL speaks about. Just stating what I need to and not re-hashing stuff. I cannot mail it until the investigation at my job is completed though. I really want to mail it right now, but I have learned patience throughout this ordeal. I also think that what you said to Meg was right on. We each have to do it our own way.

Saturday, 11 April 2009 @ 10:54am

Akitameg… Did you feel all of us praying for you? Truly this IS a GOOD world, your just not seeing & feeling it yet. PS. I don’t think there is “Vortex” in Sedona, I think its BS. (It could be at the Casino, I didn’t go there though) Happy Easter to ALL. Got to go to my new workplace now.

Saturday, 11 April 2009 @ 11:03am

I ordered Betrayal Bonds this morning. First for me, then to pass on to a friend.

Saturday, 11 April 2009 @ 11:04am

At Last says:

LOSTinAZ
Every morning I read all the posts since my last visit and say a prayer. I thank God for the posters, the messages they have shared and for me.
Through all of you, I am learning about me. I am so blessed to have found this sight 1 1/2 years ago. NC for that whole time has allowed me to start the healing.
My greatest fear was in posting. I feared once I opened up there would be no end and that I would not be able to stop. Looking forward to telling my story, so that it may help others.

Saturday, 11 April 2009 @ 11:46am

hey guys, got the book and have been reading it but to be honest i know it’s going to come from time and no contact. It’s easter weekend here in Canada and always reminded of how i don’t really have much of a family. I have my one son with me but my Dad and my brother probably wouldn’t want to come even if i offered to make a nice dinner. I’v e got so much going for me but wasted so much on the s and his daughter over the last 6 years i sit here alone again, my own doing as i never stayed away long enough. Im damaged but nothing i can do but wait it out until im ready to find someone that interests me, as nobody seems to do the trick. The illusion is so wonderful that nothing compares and now im aware of why all the men who have been interested in me do nothing for me. How can they compare with my fantasy. Then to boot my ex was in town briefly and took my son (25 out for coffee yesterday and driving a nice Lexus and my son said he was surprised his dad’s been hitting the gy m and looks fantastic , 10 years younger my son said. Oh well, im happy for him, he’s a good decent guy remarried with a little girl and he treated me great while we were married so i have no ill will towards him. I don’t know if it’s my ego (must be) but i know im much too good for the s but to him i was just another object and i have to let go of the rejection that he inflicted, as i know some day it will all not matter. Im concentrating on myself at the moment and going shopping next week out of town and shopping makes me feel good. Just wish i had places to wear the nice things out to but only bars here in this small city and i’ve been there and done that. Im going to try when the weather gets warmer to take day trips out of town, meet new people and try new things. Im kind of tired of the self help, programs, therapy etc. even though i know it has its place, i really think the true secret is just time and no contact. They have a saying in AA almost exactly the same, don’t drink and go to meetings which most people think is too simple to be the key but it really is. Same with the obsession with the s. no contact and time. I’ve tried it all and it was too simple for me to accept for a long time. Thought i could be friends, (just like some think they can moderate drinking) but not in this case. Hope everyone has a great weekend . love kindheart

Saturday, 11 April 2009 @ 5:54pm

Dear Kindheart: I, too, had longed for friendship with my ex S; but now realize that in itself is another fantasy. I don’t think these people know how to be a friend. It saddens me so much to think of the time and money I spent on this ass. Time and NC; a new mantra!

Saturday, 11 April 2009 @ 11:45pm

Kindheart it is very good to read your post, you are doing better I can tell. You are right – time and no contact – is the key. My constant obsessing about him and what he did is like my addiction to cigs, I know I need to stop because it is killing me. There are no feelings of lost love and I dont miss him at all. My health has improved over the past year along with no contact, I no longer have anxiety attacks or constant depression. I dont stay tied up in knots like I did the 3 years he was here. I have came so far in my healing and dealing with my Henry issues…..but I miss that fantasy, the illusion he gave me, the mirror, and at times I am just fricking lonely. And I dont think I have anything to offer anyone. Seems money and class are what count’s. And I dont have much of either. But I remember easter two years ago..I went to church with my son and his family and I prayed to God to help me make some sense of this and help me. This is easter number two with out him – all I can say is I am better and feel human again. I just pray that with more time and no contact I wont think of him at all..I am still learning and thankfull to be here…

Saturday, 11 April 2009 @ 11:46pm

PS: That posted before I was done….

Henry, you prayed to God you said at Easter for Him to help you and to make sense of this….Henry, HE ANSWERED YOUR PRAYERS!!! Just as he answered mine! He sent us to LoveFraud to find compassionate people who do “get it” and understand how we were injured and hurt, and we are comforted and learning and growing! We are physically better and emotionally better too!

Now you get back on the “wagon” and write me a 500 word essay about what wonderful things Henry has to offer the RIGHT GOOD PERSON! Turn it in by Monday! ((((hugs)))))

Sunday, 12 April 2009 @ 12:11am

Now my first post (before the PS disappeared after it was posted) Grimlins tonight! so will try to redo it.

Dear Henry: QUOTE: “I don’t think I have anything to offer anyone” BOINK!BOINK! BOINK! and just for good measure another BIG BOINK!

What do you mean you have NOTHING TO OFFER? Do you mean “nothing” like a kind heart? or are you referring to “nothing” like as in a good, kind friend that you are? Or is it a “nothing” like fidelity and true love and compassion?

HENRY HENRY HENRY!!! (You know you are in trouble when I put your names in all caps!) You have so much to give the RIGHT person, but you just cast your PEARLS BEFORE A SWINE! The thing is, Henry, God DID answer your prayers! Just as he sent us both to LF and we are both so much better than we were a year ago when you came here. Remember what a “basket case” you were then? It is so hard now to remember how we felt in those days, but we were both basket cases, but we held each other’s hands and we got through that time!

Henry, my dear dear friend, you have so much to offer the RIGHT person, we both do….and I know I sure as heck don’t want another WRONG person! ((((hugs)))))) and I know you don’t either.

Sunday, 12 April 2009 @ 12:16am

I love you too Ox —-

Sunday, 12 April 2009 @ 1:20am

At Last-glad you’ve been here reading. I read for a long time, posted once, and then months later started to post again. Welcome, and tell us your story when you’re ready.

Sunday, 12 April 2009 @ 5:38am

Happy Easter everyone. I hate the holidays as I am always alone on them. I keep thinking that I will always be alone on them. Trying to shake off the depression….

Sunday, 12 April 2009 @ 11:59am

sabine says:

Akitameg (et al. – ha ha!)

Reading everyone’s posts and am amazed at the flurry of support given to Meg. I am wondering what happened Meg – did you contact him again? If not, then take it day by day.

Tell yourself that if you really really want to contact him, you’ll allow yourself to call, email or whatever. THEN, try to wait until tomorrow. Then, when tomorrow comes, tell yourself that you can contact him today if you really really need to (again) , and then try to hold off one more day….and so on.

If you don’t have that ‘brick wall’ in front of you saying that you’ll NEVER be in contact with him again – then it may be easier on you, ya know?

That’s what I do – honestly. now it seems like more of a pain in the ass or obligation to drive down to his effing clinic and tell him off! Although…maybe I will tomorrow…..

Tuesday, 14 April 2009 @ 9:13am

sabine:

“Although…maybe I will tomorrow…..”

Thank you, Scarlett O’Hara

Seriously, I think you’re on to something — an alternative route to taking back your own power. I don’t know why, as I close in on 6 months of NC, but suddenly I have had overwhelming urges to contact S and give it to him both barrels. I haven’t acted on the impulse — I know that it is all the suppressed anger welling up — and that is healthy. I also know that the worst thing I could do is to have any encounters with that creature. And I’m also coming to realize that I’ve got far better things to do with my time than waste any more time, energy or money (the cost of a subway fare) going to see him and tell him off.

You’re right. It is a pain in the ass.

Tuesday, 14 April 2009 @ 9:36am

I talked to a good friend of ours last night, & he told me I need to get a restaining order on S, before he comes back here at the end of the month.

Im proud of NC for 10 days now! Each new day, I tell myself I can do it again today! I can’t beleive how miserable I truly was with him. I don’t have him convincing me on how “I don’t feel”, anymore. I’m starting to actually beleive myself again.

I don’t know why I’m scared though. I’m not sure if I’m scared of the new choices I may make or just S coming back. I’m scared that S might try to BS his way back into my life. I truly did love him. I would have done anything for him, and he knew that. But he took advantage of that. I know now that I trust too much. My bad.

Tuesday, 14 April 2009 @ 10:26am

LOSTinAZ:

You did not love HIM; you loved what you thought he was. I recall too, saying “My bad” too in the final blog post that I wrote in which I confronted who he truly was. He actually read it, blew up at me, threatened to ‘wreck me’ etc. etc. Until that moment he was a sweet as pie. BUT, knowing how easy it was for him to come out and be so aggressive shows me that it was all just beneath the surface; the WHOLE time.

My girlfriend pointed out to me that if these threats (“I’m going to wreck your life” etc..) were the first things to come out of his mouth when he was confronted, shows that he had already made his ‘backup’ plan if he was ever confronted or ‘found out’ by me.

He may try to BS his way back into your life, but it won’t be long before his true side ’surfaces’ again, and you’ll be quicker to spot the red flags.

But why bother doing it the hard way, when you can just keep doing the NC thing day by day?

Day 10 – congrats!

Tuesday, 14 April 2009 @ 11:10am

Matt,

I can completely understand why you’d want to contact him and “give it to him both barrels”. Maybe if you ran into him coincidentally, you could tell him to go to hell. But if you go out of your way (like me, wanting to drive down to his clinic 45min away….), then it gives him the satisfaction of knowing that you still think about him. No matter what you say.

Sad but true.

I still tell myself almost daily though that “well maybe I’ll go down tomorrow”. But then tomorrow comes and there is always something more important to do.

Tuesday, 14 April 2009 @ 11:14am

a_real_wife says:

Dear AkitaMeg,
Have you tried envisioning the S as DEAD? Grieve for him as if he WERE dead/ I had to do that to get over an X-bf-S – he simply ceased to exist. I grieved for the “lost hopes, lost love, lost dream of what could have been…”

Please if you’re still hurting this badly, go to an emergency room, if your therapist is not back from vacation yet. It’s apalling that your therapist would leave patients without a back-up person to go to. That just isn’t done…EVER!

Make yourself realize the the XS is DEAD – at least, he is DEAD to YOU. I’ve been where you are, thinking that I couldn’t, wouldn’t, shouldn’t even GO ON with my life.

BUT, as you can see, I made it through – the worst part of my situation was, I kept thinking my XS was going to marry me. When he told me on the phone that he NEVER would have married me…that clinched it…he is dead to me – I grieved, I mourned, I wanted to call him, stop by his place, keep SOME kind of contact with him, because I truly loved him, too.

Alas, some people are put on this earth, merely to test our personal resolve and, yes, even our sanity.

Go to an emergency room, if your therapist isn’t around – GO, don’t not stop anywhere else – TAKE care of YOU – you are all you’ve got!

Tuesday, 14 April 2009 @ 12:03pm

Oh My Gosh–
everybody–
I am still here and never contacted psyco.
I have been so depressed that I have not even been to computer/LF since I last wrote– on Thursday!!!!!!
I just came to computer and I am overwhelmed by all of your love and support–
I am still in NC.
My insurance begins tomorrow. I need major appointments, but do know how I can make them– It is hard for me to do anything!!!
In NC– and mostly b/c of you beautiful people.
going back to reread al of your loving posts.
I am not well though. REally clenching my teeth at night even with a 1,000 dollar night guard and valium.
I need prayer. I love you all.
Matt– let’s start a tv series. I used to write as well as act.
I am sorry I have not been online. Getting out of bed is a chore.
A realwife–
yeah– my therpiast is fired. Never even heard back from her. shrink fired too– I can’t believe the unprofessionalism. and how much to they get paid????

Tuesday, 14 April 2009 @ 12:53pm

Good to hear from you.

I can relate to the barely getting out of bed. I’ve finally started to force myself to get out of bed by making early appointments and forcing myself forward by making myself apply for one new job a day online forcing myself to take care of one personal matter a day and forcing myself to get to the gym each day.

One thing I’ve learned about therapists is if it’s not working for you up front, find another. I refuse to ever spend another nickel with a therapist discussing why the therepeutic relationship isn’t working.

Tuesday, 14 April 2009 @ 1:01pm

That total lethargy is depression, sweetie, and believe me even WITH mega psych drugs after my encounters, I can definitely RELATE! It takes work and time. I agree that your Therapist should have left a back up plan for emergencies. NOT GOOD plan for her….ditch her and get someone else.

I know you have no energy, you are TIRED and worn out physically and mentally. Do ONE thing each day…even if that is get up and wash your face and eat. That is a start! Hang in there sweetie, we are HERE FOR YOU. lOVE AND PRAYERS AND BIG HUGS, OXY

Tuesday, 14 April 2009 @ 2:10pm

Dear Meg, i can relate so much as i am worn right down myself. I though the two months in the trauma program would get me refreshed but i came out and had contact and now i’m back to anger , depression, weight loss, on alot of seroquel at night (more than i think i should be but going to discuss with shrink) and i have a lady coming to fill out forms etc. for insurance from my job and they want me to have therapy and it just never seems to end. Wish to God i hadn’t met this phanta morgana (fantasy) as it has just about done me in. I don’t know if it’s age, or what but i’ve never felt so worn down in my life. I am trying to get back to work and doing things but my mind is still obsessing alot about the s. Yes he is technically dead , as it’s only pretend guy that is prancing around. Keep thinking i need t o move but i’m not in a position right now to do such as im still on long term. The fall out from this type of encounter is really hard to accept. Don’t know what part was his and what part was mine or if all this stress was due to him or other things even though i know deep down he was the cause it’s just so hard to accept that someone can be that toxic to me. Acceptance is not an easy pill to swallow. Had to do it with the alcohol and that took years too. I went to my cousins funeral today (brain anyerusm at age 55) and they palyed the most beautiful song by Evans called “Sentimental Lady” and i cried for the loss of her family etc. and i kept thinking about the s and it’s so hard to beleive that they have no feelings and that they can’t grieve for others like i was doing today. They only grieve for themselves and even then i don’t think they really do, they just move on to make themselves feel better instantly instead of mourning losses. What a waste he was or is . Emotional day for me and makes me realize i want someone who can truly feel and have empathy for others. love kindheart

Tuesday, 14 April 2009 @ 2:51pm

Well, a friend from Australia sent me a you tube video of a lady named Susan Boyle, 47 years old, who sang on Britain’s Got Talent….I can’t stop watching it. I think I’ll watch it every day! It will bring a smile and tears of joy….for those who haven’t seen her:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....k&NR=1

Tuesday, 14 April 2009 @ 3:47pm

kindheart48:

“They only grieve for themselves and even then i don’t think they really do, they just move on to make themselves feel better instantly instead of mourning losses.”

I don’t think they grieve for themselves. I think they FEEL SORRY for themselves when they aren’t what they want. It’s all about supply and demand.

How did I come to that conclusion? The first time the S ran a pity play he sobbed broken heartedly about his brain dead mother who had been on life-support the last 3 years and how much he missed her. I’m a compassionate man and I not only hurt for him, I fell in love with him on the spot.

Almost a year to the day later, he ran another pity play. Once again he started sobbing about his brain dead mother on life support. This time he told me his father had told him the night before, at his brother’s wedding, that he was disconnecting life support the next week. Oh, how he cried that his father was murdering his mother.

Just one problem. This time I was onto the pity play and I realized he was trying every trick in the book to strong-arm 10 grand out of me. And as quick as he turned on the tearshe turned them off and went back to business as usual.

So, no. I don’t think they grieve about anything. If they are talking about some event that would devastate the rest of us, the only reason they are doing so is that they are working some scam or playing some angle. They just feel sorry for themselves. At best.

Tuesday, 14 April 2009 @ 4:06pm

Sorry. Meant to say “I think they FEEL SORRY for themselves when they aren’t GETTING what they want.”

Tuesday, 14 April 2009 @ 4:07pm

REgarding the way you’re feeling, could be the seroquel. I tried it briefly. The side effects were horrendous. I know every doctor out there is touting the uses of seroquel besides the treatment of schizophrenia. My problem is, I don’t think they are being honest about the side effects. YOu may want to discuss this with your doctor.

Tuesday, 14 April 2009 @ 4:10pm

yes Matt, they are very liberal at prescribing seroquel for almost anything anymore. I noticed that at the facility for Trauma/addiction . They were prescribing it during the day for people going to sessions to vent and i was thinking how are we suppose to deal with our issues if we keep medicating but they seem to look at seroquel as being very safe. Im on it not for anything other than maybe mood disorder and sleep but she has me on 200 which my physicatrist says is an average dose but i’m awfully tiny at prob about 110lbs and easy for her to say as one friends said. They aren’t the ones taking it. It does def help with sleep but like anything you become dependent on it and i do think i t helps somewhat with mood. She initially hoped it would help with the obsession with the s but no drug can touch that one i’m afraid. Time an d no contact. He’s been in my head for so long i can’t imagine him being a distant memory. That would be a dream come true to never ever have to have him enter my mind again. I feel like i’ve been robbed of years of my life with this loser and want to be happy again . love kh

Tuesday, 14 April 2009 @ 4:30pm

slimone says:

Hi Everyone ((Meg))((kindheart)),

Oh this part of the journey is tough. Doing just one small thing a day is hard, but it is really good advice. Brush your teeth, eat anything you find remotely palatable, etc…I am 19 months out and IT GETS SOOOOO MUCH BETTER. You will feel real goodness again. Gotta make the journey through the dark to find those feelings, but they do come back. I am a real believer in no contact. I did it, despite several protestations from friends (I dumped them) and some online advice. I just don’t see how to find and maintain any modicum of self-respect if we allow ourselves to be abused. And the idea that we can ‘reparent’ our abusers, and help them trust enough to create a healthy attachment in relationship to us, well……maybe with a plain ole’ ass****, but not someone character disordered, and antisocial as well.

I don’t know if this is helpful but…..

Here’s how it went for me:

….you do begin to move, bit by bit, forward: through the dark part of the forest, crawling on hands and knees, kinda starving and exhausted. You eat food like it were worms and grubs, just choking it down. You don’t know when to sleep or wake cause you’re scared senseless of the dark, and don’t know if ‘it’ is still coming after you. But you KEEP CRAWLING ALONG, GRUBBING YOUR WAY FORWARD. Maybe you visit a doctor for something to calm your nerves and help you sleep. I found a wise woman to talk to, who understood N/P/Sism, and understood the Post Traumatic experience.

When you find a stream, take a bath. When the sky is blue, just look up, notice how you feel, don’t try and change it…..just be with your experience. For me there was no point in trying to force myself to ‘feel good’ or ‘do fun stuff’, cause it just wasn’t going to happen. Could be that it can happen for others that way. But for me the way was THROUGH the darkness, and I just don’t like the dark that much to make a party of it.

Then it begins to lighten up and you get a few little open meadows, that you may or may not be interested in enjoying. For me this meant I found more moments, strung together, that felt at least neutral, if not sometimes enjoyable. Like sitting in the middle of a nice warm meadow, with nothing much to do but just sit there. Then I would have to leave the meadow and trudge back into the forest.

For me this was what therapy helped with: continuing to re-enter the forest, to see what was there that was so scarey/familiar/beckoning/destructive/and full of threat. This was also when I was able to begin grieving whatever it was the loss of his ‘promise’ brought up for me. ALL my childhood misery came to visit. I let myself feel as much of the loss and sorrow and humiliation and loneliness I could bear.

After that you might make some steep uphill climbs, where the vistas are breathtaking and scarey. Here is a good place to stop and get some perspective, if you can. What this meant for me was seeing the P from very far off, as if he were in a movie, or dead, or just so far away he couldn’t hurt me. Then I watched what he did, as an observer, not a participant. I got perspective. I didn’t have any contact, I just replayed ‘what he did’, and read lots of stuff, and learned what he was.

I am not out of the woods. I still visit. Maybe that is part of my ‘real life’ that I have wanted to avoid and am now learning to accept. That I have my dark wooded place that beckons me to explore. I will say the exploration still makes me cry, and I still feel ripped off sometimes. But I don’t feel as scared of my own journey, or of the creatures that inhabit the woods (since I am learning what to listen and look for, so as not to get eaten!).

Much healing and love to you all,
Slim one

Tuesday, 14 April 2009 @ 4:33pm

Welcome Slimone – I like your story (Heres how it went for me). You described so many feelings and emotions we all have in common and at least here we know we are not alone in this nitemare. I am just over a year no contact. I dont know anything about his where abouts other than his place of work. I drove to that city several months ago and found his pick up in the parking lot. I just wanted to know if he is still around, I fight myself alot here lately to do this again – I want him to leave the state or the planet. I want to tell him how cruel he was and how I know what he is and how he exploits people and has no feeling etc. but that would only make me the crazy one. So I plod along hoping soon I will not feel this way. It is up too me to find peace with this and myself. Like you I have healed from the worst of the crap this has brought to surface. again welcome and thanks for sharing how it went for you..

Tuesday, 14 April 2009 @ 8:56pm

Slimone: Your post was very interesting and I can really relate to it. I think I am always running away from my dark places so I don’t have to look inside myself, but since I am alone now there is nobody else to think about except me, which has been one of my issues… I guess. Thank you for being here!

Tuesday, 14 April 2009 @ 9:39pm

Hey Akita & all! I’m listening to “New Begining’s” by Tracy Chapman. And her lastest CD is called, what else but…”Tracy Chapman” It’s been very inspirational for me.

Has anyone ‘ahead’ of me had a sensation of floating? Where you don’t beleive anything? I mean anything? Where you get the feeling that everything is transparent? I am doubting everything & anybody now. I’ve had eight years of abuse, but I really feel for the people that have been sucked into much longer.

Hey Doc’s, Can we get a Vaccine/Annidote for this Disease?

Wednesday, 15 April 2009 @ 2:42am

henry, i can sure relate to you driving to where he works, My s has two rental units around the corner from me and i’ve had to drive by them at least 4 times a day this past week. But i have to keep the no contact or im literally screwed for better words. When i think back to last summer and when he saw me leaving the bar and had to make contact, i WISH SO badly i had cut it off then. but can change it so have to move forward and yes it is like crawling and it feels like it will never be any better but i’ve never given myself a fair shake with the no contact never more than maybe just over a month in 6 years so how would i know how lieberating i t can feel as each time i was feeling stronger , i’d go back for more and back to square one. This time i have to give myself the opportunity to feel better and get stronger. These people are too toxic for words. love kh

Wednesday, 15 April 2009 @ 9:30am

henry, SC2 and all,

I understand the ‘drive by’s’. For me it is unavoidable. This man teaches at a gym I live next to, and he is a sort of ‘cult leader P’, as someone else said on another post. It is a kind of dancing that has a real ‘woo-woo’ philosophy that he can use to create ‘groupies’ who feel that dancing/exercising with him takes them out of their ordinary lives and promises them, well that perfection that was mentioned in the original text of this post (which is SO helpful). Henry, the guy I knew passed just one car length ahead of me the other day, to cross the street and I had a mini fantasy that if he had been RIGHT in front of me I could have gunned it and turned him into an inkspot.

I SO WISH HE WOULD MOVE. And this guy’s Modus Operandi is that he generally doesn’t stay anywhere for too long. Sounds terrible but I hope he finds some woman in another state who LOVES him SO much that she begs him, and pays for him, to come stay with her. Poor woman, lucky me!

Because as Shabbychic said avoiding the dark places is what many of us do, and I think that is why we ‘fall for’ the promise of perfection, of being saved from our fears, our losses, our resentments, our ‘ordinary’ lives. These P’s, in the early phase, hold SUCH promise to save us from the REALNESS of living. Because I don’t know about the rest of you but REAL life is still not what I have always wanted/dreamed it would be. This is such a deep and esoteric struggle, that I must continually confront, accept, and find a kind heart to help me with (my own kind heart).

Lost inAZ: I have that feeling. If I understand you. I don’t believe in much of anything. Don’t get me started on the silly things like ‘Law of Attraction’, where we tell the universe what we want, in a SUPER positive way, and it gives us everything. JUST LIKE THE PERFECT PARENT I HAVE LONGED FOR. Just like with a P. If we just act right, ask right, and be right (which of course changes at THEIR whim) we can be admitted into the heaven of abundance that is at their disposal/command. What a bunch of horse shit.

I told someone just the other day that I mostly don’t trust a single person I meet these days. But I am SO amazed at how many people keep proving me wrong, and are kind and helpful and want to do goodness in the world. I think it just takes time to come out of the woods before we can start seeing the goodness in others, in ourselves.

SOne

Thursday, 16 April 2009 @ 9:14am

I didn’t know where to post this, but I think it is part of “letting go”….it is another article on letting go of intrusive thoughts.

http://ezinearticles.com/?How-.....;id=231502

Saturday, 4 July 2009 @ 3:50pm

PInow says:

Thank you for sharing this. I will give this a try.

Saturday, 4 July 2009 @ 10:38pm

witsend says:

A great article.
And doing my part on the smiley brigade

Tuesday, 30 March 2010 @ 6:00pm

hens says:

Witty – You pulled up part of my past when you posted on this thread – boink boink – How are you doing? Whats the situation with your son? On another thread you were telling about the 14 year old that killed his grandad. i remember when m was here there were nites i would sleep with a gun under my pillow while i let him sleep on the couch cause he had no other place to go, I would hide wallet , important papers etc. Even when he would manipulate me into another try I was always on alert. there was something dark and sinister about him, angelic and satanic at the same time. cant believe i lived like that. I hope your situation is good…

Tuesday, 30 March 2010 @ 8:36pm

hens,
Is this a bad thread for you? So sorry. I pulled it up cause I thought it was a good one, and trying to help Erin B get rid of the 600 count thread that keeps popping up.

I suppose what you are describing with your ex is similar to my fear if my son would move back home again. I don’t own a gun and so therefore never slept with one.
However I would be in that hypervigilant mode 24/7 AGAIN.
And the insanity that he created on a daily basis, here at home, once removed from this, even for this short period…..I just don’t think I could live like that again.

I saw him today and it was one of those sad days. He needed a haircut and the lady in town, is no longer in business. So I drove him to a new place.
After he got his haircut he looked so young and he smiled(cause the gal that cut his hair was adorable) and he looked so handsome.
It just was such a “normal” thing….Taking him for a haircut. It saddens me when we do experience these “normal” moments, because they are so few and far inbetween. And it makes me ache for a normal relationship with him. Like any other mom and their teenager….

Tuesday, 30 March 2010 @ 9:09pm

ErinBrock says:

Witty:
Any talk of ‘coming home’……

You cracked me up with that 600 post comment…..It DRIVES ME NUTS……when I go to respond to peeps…..it takes FOREVER….delayed typing and posting….YIKES>…
And they keep being brought back up!!!

Tuesday, 30 March 2010 @ 9:15pm

Hens…..I was going back reading old posts….I came across a slew of mine….in the ‘heat’ of things in divorce..
I am so proud of how strong I sounded…..I was sure on a ‘killem’ high!!!

I believe we need to be strong….to my core I beleieve this, I’ve seen the benefit and I felt it too.
Rooaaarrr.

I’m gonna go up thread and read your past again!!!

Tuesday, 30 March 2010 @ 9:18pm

one_step_at_a_time says:

that’s what we love about you EB – your compassion.

Tuesday, 30 March 2010 @ 9:25pm

hens…..I see you and Ox were once fighting over a young stud fireman with eyes of steele????

Got that visual!!!

I laughed SO HARD when I read those posts!!!

(Sorry)

erinb i was reading my old post and i sounded like a stalker..oh my Witty – when it comes to your son my heart wants to tell you to bring him home, you are doing the best you can, i am happy you took him for a haircut..i still want a good out come for you and him – i am so torn with your situation…i do understand your delima and i am hopeing for nothing but the best for you and him – even with my spathx i hope hes ok but unlike you i never have to worry about him coming back

Tuesday, 30 March 2010 @ 9:26pm

Tuesday, 30 March 2010 @ 9:27pm

speaking of compassion…..I’ve learned to turn it off in regards to the S’s in my life…..

Tuesday, 30 March 2010 @ 9:32pm

hens how are you doing now love?

(i understand the horror of driving past the land.)

Tuesday, 30 March 2010 @ 9:45pm

one i am on edge – it is on all the local news channels the DA is defending it search for the car – apparantly many people had called the law and told them to search in this area by helicopter and they didnt – he had lived in this area for 15 years, but not in the past 10 or so but still had connections here- they say he and the girl have been dead a month – not that they could of saved her but it would of brought closure for the family and comunity – they think somebody was hiding him out and they want to find out who that is were the investigations is now – the helicopters and news media , highway patrol local police sherriff are all right down the road from me right now its a mess

Tuesday, 30 March 2010 @ 9:59pm

hens i am so sorry; it’s a physic hit.

there was a girl here a year ago who went missing in a nearby town – they didn’t put the ‘amber’ alert’ out for her until days after her disappearance. i cannot BELIEVE that this is EVEN a consideration these days, it should happen automatically. i thought of this when you said the police didn’t search the area…we all have to fight, to educate, to mourn and grieve and help others to heal.

can you do a ceremony for her?

Tuesday, 30 March 2010 @ 10:12pm

hens,
Sorry that you are so close to this and having to go through this.

Tuesday, 30 March 2010 @ 10:18pm

Hens:
I’m sorry this has happened in your neighborhood.
It’s very frustrating to know you are powerless against these things…..
All you can do now is try to do some good for that innocent baby girl.
I wish you peace darlen.
XXOO
EB

Tuesday, 30 March 2010 @ 10:22pm

one the osbi says they cant search areas on a hunch or a feeling they need positive leads – well his parent are buried nearby etc etcc i called and told them my feelings also it just a tragedy – the little 7 year old girl name was AJA Johnson so cute – i just did my ceremony right here onestep thanx – and this is also the 15 year anniversary of the federal building bombing in OKc guess i better stop hoggin the thread with my drama

Tuesday, 30 March 2010 @ 10:23pm

ErinB,
to answer your question up above. No talk today (haircut day) of coming back home.

Tuesday, 30 March 2010 @ 10:25pm

you’re kidding me, right? where’s oxy, you need a boink.

NOT *YOUR* DRAMA (YOU GOT WISE!), BUT YOU’RE HEART, YOUR HEART….

Tuesday, 30 March 2010 @ 10:26pm

i will do something for her Hens, thank you for her name. And for you, too.

Tuesday, 30 March 2010 @ 10:27pm

hugs to you all..

Tuesday, 30 March 2010 @ 10:29pm

hens,
this kind of stuff that happens is tragedy, not drama. And it affects us all because it is real and tragic. But I think the closer it is to “home” the more real it becomes.

That story of the 14 year old in my area….It really isn’t getting very much TV coverage and yet this is a small town tragedy.

Tuesday, 30 March 2010 @ 10:31pm

wit this kind of stuff goes on every where every day – but i knew the guy and yes it is close to home did you read my post to you above at 9;26pm?

Tuesday, 30 March 2010 @ 10:34pm

hens,
Yes I did and replied right below it. did you see the reply?

Tuesday, 30 March 2010 @ 10:37pm

wit it doesnt show up but thats ok no response needed If anyone wants to see what i have been talking about google AJA JOHNSON MISSING

Tuesday, 30 March 2010 @ 10:45pm

I’ll tell you…..the more I deal with the criminal S’s….the more disenchanted I get with the authorities….FBI, local, police/sheriff/DEA…..
Not being a ‘professional’…..and not being educated (disclaimer)….I DO have common sense….

And common sense does not negate the fact that when someone calls with information…..it should be followed up. Hello….it’s a gift! Something you may not have gotten if this person didn’t come forward…..

I found out the feds were/are looking for the business S. I contacted the investigator, letting him know I may have things they might want to look at. All he asked was….do you know where he is? I don’t currently….and that’s all he was interested in…..the easy lead! Lead me right to him…..do my work for me….
Well BOZO….I would if I could….and I might just find him prior to YOU! I knew he was in jail in HIS city…….WHEN he was looking for him…..WHY DIDN”T HE KNOW THIS…..I got info off the web. I found it……

From what I have, he could find him…..because he has more leeway than i do as a private citizen……
It just doesn’t make sense!

I led the authorities right to a drug dealing spath……provided EVERYTHING….the whole crew…the farm also…..all the players etc……
Are they interested…..don’t think so…….

I don’t believe these responses are only the budget cuts…..

This is why I firmly beleive…..If you need or want something…..GO GET IT YOURSELF!!!!!

Maybe this is the reason peeps offer rewards…..money talks to the public….and the feds don’t want to do their jobs….
How about a tenacious young detective…..NOT these days….
It’s just pathetic.
I’m disgusted…..and it just shows……we walk this earth with only our shadow.
WE NEED TO TAKE CARE OF BUSINESS OURSELVES…..whatever it is.

Tuesday, 30 March 2010 @ 10:49pm

hens
I see it now. You also posted to me at exactly 8:26 and that is the post I responded to. I am an hour later that this blog so I looked at the 8;26 instead of the later one.

Yes days like today, make me want to forget the reality of the situation and believe that everything will be “alright”…But I know that isn’t what my experience has taught me so far.
There is the intellectual side of this and there is my heart getting in the way during a 15 minute haircut.

Tuesday, 30 March 2010 @ 10:54pm

hens – i just went to listen to her dad’s appeal .

Tuesday, 30 March 2010 @ 10:55pm

EB – wow. i hear you.

‘we walk this earth with only our shadows.’

and haunted by ghosts, i sometimes see only shadows and wraiths

Tuesday, 30 March 2010 @ 11:01pm

I called the court today to check on the bail status of the business Spaths.
I spoke with the constable….who are ‘really’ in charge….
They hadn’t seen anything and were going to talk to the judge when he passed through.
suggested I call the court clerk….
So I did.
She says, nothings been done….and they are not familier with what to do when a case is taken this far…..WHAT???????
Uh, it’s NOT my job to educate you to do your friggen job……if you don’t know….call into the city courts and figure it out…..WTF.
GET IT DONE!!!

Point is….IF I hadn’t of called…..IT wouldn’t have gotten done!!!
I have rights….I am exherting my rights to a legal PROCESS…..NOW PROCESS IT…..
I’m paying for it…..
DO IT!!!

This confirms ONCE AGAIN….that when we are taking the legal process route……WE and only WE are in charge…..whether we are using an attorney OR NOT….Ulitmately….OUR CASE IS UP TO US……FOLLOW THROUGH PEEPS….FOLLOW THROUGH!!!!

Push it, push it, push, push push it!!!!!!!

She says, nothings been done….and they are not familier with what to do when a case is taken this far…..WHAT???????

there is so much wrong with this.

Tuesday, 30 March 2010 @ 11:04pm

onestep try and find a photo of the little girl she is so precious

i am going to pack it in before i use one more !@^!@!@# frowny face.

love to you all – you ARE care in action.

one step

Tuesday, 30 March 2010 @ 11:05pm

hens – i did. she native?

said my prayers for her.

Tuesday, 30 March 2010 @ 11:06pm

She’s beautiful!!!!! Her spirit will live on…….

Tuesday, 30 March 2010 @ 11:08pm

ONE….
If we can’t find our shadows……we must walk into the sunshine!!!!

Tuesday, 30 March 2010 @ 11:09pm

like this EB!

off to a good soak and to bed before 3 am.

good night all!

Tuesday, 30 March 2010 @ 11:13pm

good nite onesteppers -

Tuesday, 30 March 2010 @ 11:31pm

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After the sociopath: How do we heal? Part 7-Letting Go

239 Comments to “After the sociopath: How do we heal? Part 7-Letting Go”

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