Me Me Me Me Me Me Me Me
PDF Hello my friends…
It’s so nice to be here, to discuss the subjects of narcissism and sociopathy.
I’d like to begin by asking each of you, one at a time, to tell us a little about me and what you hope to give me in our short time together?
Uh huh…hmmm…very interesting….
As we continue circling the room, if it’s alright with you, I’d like to hear a little less about you, and more about me?
Okay, now that we’re done with the introductions….
Let me formally begin by stating something fairly obvious: Narcissists and sociopaths are people you’ll want to avoid. Does this make sense? Are we in unanimity about this?
By the way, I want you to feel free during this presentation, at any point, to stretch my legs and get me a cup of coffee, to ensure my good circulation and alertness? (Incidentally, I like my coffee light with six sugars.)
My friends (and no, I’m not John McCain), I wonder whether any of you, right now, can look yourselves in the mirror and honestly say that you are completely attuned to me and, more important, humbled by the vast expertise I bring to this subject matter?
But I digress….we are here, after all, to discuss me, not narcissists and sociopaths. (Excuse, I meant that the other way around!)
The gentleman over there, yawning, who is texting as I speak? You must be a sociopath, sir; or, at a minimum, a deranged narcissist, to have the gall to enter my audience and so blatantly disrespect me!
I’d suggest, sir, that you think less about that text message and more about the insulting message you send me with your contemptuous behavior?
By the way, my friends, I point that man out over there not to single him out and shame him gratuitously, but rather to identify live, spontaneous examples of narcissism and sociopathy right before your eyes.
Remember, my friends, by some estimates upwards of 4% of the general population are sociopaths! I believe that estimate comes from Martha Stout who, for purposes of her book sales (The Sociopath Next Door) lobbied for 26% as the figure, but after a noisy fight deferred to her publisher’s attorneys.
By my math, this means that, conservatively, at least four of you in the audience are clinical sociopaths. Well, I believe I’ve exposed the first!
Sir, sit down…where are you going? You can’t leave!! Sit back down, sir!!
Excuse me? You’re outraged? Did you say you were “outraged?”
Did you hear that, folks?
Listen to me, you arrogant jerk! Sit back down!!
You’re lucky I didn’t call security on you already for disrupting my presentation with your text messaging!! Now you compound your rudeness by deigning to escape with the blithe impudence of a sociopath?
My friends…this is the narcissist’s (or in his case, more likely the sociopath’s) contempt on full, alarming display!
Let me tell you something, sir, if I wasn’t so consumed with who I am, I’d be more interested to know who you are, if only to use my clout to ensure that you are permanently banned from all continuing education seminars—not just mine—in perpetuity!
You scoff, sir?
There it is…right there, my friends. Again…notice the contempt! See it for yourselves.
Fine…let him leave. We’re better off without him.
Now where were we?
Oh yes…just a reminder…we will break for lunch at 12 and I’d like you back no later than by 12:10.
That should give you enough time to scarf something down, and prepare for the brilliant material to come this afternoon.
And by the way, in order to avoid the congestion of those of you trying to crash my dining-room table to lunch with me, I will draw, in advance of our lunch-break, five names from a hat to establish who my dining table-mates will be.
This will be a random drawing, and I must warn you that I am not open to bribes, although I will note that those of you who buy my books—especially many of them—in the next hour or so, in the hall right outside this conference room, can expect special consideration.
Excellent…excellent.
The narcissist and sociopath…
Who are these individuals, my friends?
The scary thing is that they are our friends, our family, our colleagues, our doctors, our lawyers, our stockbrokers, our mates, and most chilling, our mail-carriers.
What else do we know about them?
We know that individuals with these warped personalities tend to regard others as “objects.”
As a matter of fact, if you leave here with nothing else, with, let us say, just a single, critical concept, let it be this: I know what I’m talking about.
As I was saying, these deviant individuals treat others not like individuals, but like objects. Remember this, because the implication is paramount: when you view others as a something, instead of a someone, it becomes easier to treat that person as a thing, not a person.
Hey you! Over there! Yeah, you! What are you, deaf? Do me a favor and turn the thermostat down, over there by the door. Yeah, right over there, by the door. Knock it down at least several degrees. I’m hot. Extremely hot.
Jesus Christ, yeah, you! That’s right…get up…out of your seat…then walk over to the wall, and jack the thermostat down. Get it, Einstein?
We know, by the way, that the narcissist will have little genuine interest in your experience while being pretty much entirely consumed in his…and his comfort.
What, people? You’re cold? That’s ridiculous. How can you be cold? You must be hallucinating! Because it’s hot in here! Nobody in their right minds could be cold when it’s so obviously, intolerably hot and stuffy in here.
Excuse me?
I’m invalidating your experience?
Sweetheart, what hypersensitivity drugs are you on? I’m merely stating an undeniable fact.
What? Don’t call you sweetheart?
Jesus, is this a feminist convention, or a continuing education seminar?
By the way, nobody touch the thermostat now that that cretin over there finally figured out how to adjust it.
I’m just kidding, calling you a cretin. God, you’re a hypersensitive crowd.
But seriously, if anyone so much as dares mess with the thermostat, you’re asking to see a side of me I’d prefer not to reveal.
My friends, sociopaths are fascinating creatures.
My god, have you ever had someone lie to your face, someone who makes an art form of lying convincingly, regardless of his patent guilt, for whom the very act of lying audaciously is a form of entertainment, satisfaction?
What I’m saying, my friends, is that, for the sociopath, the payoff is often the getting away with something; it is often the thrill of the game; the thrill of perpetrating fraud against others!
Come again? My doctorate? Are you questioning my credentials?
Read my lips and look into my eyes, and tell me if I’m lying: My doctorate is legitimate.
How dare you insinuate otherwise!
As the blurb on the seminar brochure says, I graduated at the top of my class from the College of America in 1985, with a Ph.D., MD., and JD. That makes me a psychologist, medical doctor, and lawyer—in other words, someone you don’t wanna mess with.
Now let me go a step further, as I look every single one of you in the eye from my podium: Not only are my doctorates legitimate, but so is everything in my biography.
That’s right, I dare any one of you to disprove a single assertion in my biography, including my claims to have studied closely with Carl Rogers, Gordon Allport, and Louis Pasteur.
Sure, I’m smiling. I’m smiling from the enviable position of a man who knows that he’s betrayed (excuse me, I meant conveyed) his integrity.
That was a Fraudian slip, people. Excuse me, I meant Freudian…that was a wholly innocent mistake. Don’t even go there.
Grandiosity…grandiosity. Let me look at my notes on grandiosity.
The narcissist and sociopath often have serious grandiosity issues….hmmm.
Speaking of grandiosity, I routinely like to humble the clinicians I supervise by sharing the story of how Rogers—that’s right, Carl Rogers—once told me, “Len, you’re my favorite. You’re my favorite student. My most brilliant student. You will carry my work forward.”
Yes, this story tends to curb my students’ grandiosity.
You’re all shaking your heads…in appropriate awe, no doubt?
My friends, for the narcissist, even more than the sociopath, his grandiosity is a defense. The narcissist requires, like an addict, the experience and perception of himself as special, as above others.
Unless the narcissist is catered to, and treated as a sort of celebrity, he feels depressed, worthless, which typically takes the form of his anger and rage.
You two!! Knock it off!! How dare you whisper to each other while I’m speaking!!
Do I need to remind you people that I don’t have to be here. Don’t you get that? I don’t have to be here, people. You do; I don’t.
Last warning; this is my last warning. You people really are testing my patience.
Where was I, before your latest rude disturbance?
Anyway, I’ll tell you an interesting, and perhaps even edifying, story.
Once upon a time there was a married couple. And the wife periodically confronted the husband, “You know what? You’re a goddamned psychopath. That’s what you are. You put on a good front for the public. But make no mistake, you’re a masquerader. I know your deal. You’re a psychopath. And I’m gonna let people know. I’m no longer going to suffer your abuse in silence.”
And the husband laughed with great contempt, because he had great contempt for his wife. And he appreciated neither her scathing tone, boldness, nor, of course, her threat.
And the very next day the wife went missing. And was never to be found.
And the husband told each of his subsequent wives, of whom there were successively three, that they could never measure up to the first, his missing wife.
He’d probably never get over her loss, he’d tell them, with watering eyes.
His undiminished love for her, his first wife, probably was, he’d admit tearfully, holding him back. But he couldn’t help that, of course. His missing wife, after all, was the love of his life, and so maybe he was, he’d suggest, simply too scarred to ever get over it.
And his seeming vulnerability and seeming raw, emotional honesty made it much harder for his later wives to hold him accountable.
Why do I tell you this story, my friends?
Is it my story?
Not really. I know where my wife went…I’m convinced she returned to her family somewhere in eastern Mississippi where, I believe, she assumed a new identity and hence as if just dropped off the face of the earth.
Oh no, my wife is alive and well somewhere…she just doesn’t want anyone from her past to know about it.
I know exactly what you’re thinking, my friends: She, not I, is the psychopath?
You are a good crowd, very shrewd…yes you are.
And her successful disappearance proves just that, does it not? That she, not I, is the psychopath!
After all, only a psychopath, my friends, can just up one day, abandon her family, disappear permanently, and unconscionably leave a cloud of suspicion hanging over her betrayed husband!
Forgive me my tears….I’m a very emotional man who, as you can see, has very deep feelings about this, still.
God, I miss her…that woman.
And every day I tell my kids, who are still young, “Don’t worry…she won’t be coming home…” Excuse me, that was another Fraudian slip…I meant to say I tell them, “Don’t worry, children…someday, when mama’s ready, she’ll reach out…and announce herself again…meanwhile, you must ignore those scurrilous, persistent rumors that have hounded me all your lives, rumors of my…uh…‘involvement’ in your mother’s disappearance?”
I don’t mean to spin off on this, my friends, but you understand, don’t you, that that student intern with whom I took up just prior to my wife’s disappearance…you do realize that the timing of that was, of course, entirely coincidental?
It’s a funny thing, my friends, how in this cynical age we live in, nobody believes in coincidence anymore. How sad…how jaded…how tragic.
Where was I?
Sociopaths…yes, sociopaths are eternally intriguing personalities, my friends.
My friends, we are nearing time for a bathroom break. That is because, naturally, I have to go to the bathroom.
Before we break, and please be ready to resume promptly in no later than 40 seconds, I want to say something about the legendary psychopathy clinician Hervey Cleckley. Cleckley, you know, wrote the classic on psychopaths called “The Mask Of Sanity.”
If you haven’t yet read it, although it now costs about $850 for a used copy, you’re an idiot.
Anyway, I should tell you I was supervised by Dr. Cleckley himself as part of my externship right out of the University of Alabama. I sought Dr. Cleckley out myself, on my own initiative, and let me just say that after we spoke privately in his home office for exactly half an hour, he said, and I quote, “Young man, you are clearly a gifted young clinician. I was unprepared to take on another disciple, but I must say, now that I’ve met you, I wouldn’t think of missing the opportunity. By the way, have you read all six editions of my book?”
I answered, “No, Dr. Cleckley, just the five,” impressing him that I wouldn’t fall for his trick question (the sixth edition wouldn’t appear for some years later, until after his death).
As an aside, you might be interested to know that Dr. Cleckley referenced me frequently in his lectures to other psychiatrists and psychologists, referring to me as “my protégé Len.”
Who’s laughing?
You! Over there! Stand up!
My friends, here you have Exhibit A, standing naked before you, of insecurity, compensation, and envy!!
Your laughter, young man, is obviously a compensation…a compensation for the shame you undoubtedly feel at lacking the ability to grasp—to even begin to grasp—the profundity of my clinical wisdom and the intimidating gravity of my experience. This is all transparently obvious, young man. You are a fool.
I’ll tell you what, my friends. Let’s end this lecture, for the present, right here. It seems as good a moment as any. Besides the call of my bladder, I’m feeling some hunger pangs of surprising intensity and tenacity.
It is now 10:55; let’s reconvene no later than 11:05.
Remember, my books are displayed in the hall outside the room. My assistant Connie will be happy to assist your purchases.
Finally, it’s possible that, if we manage to cover the afternoon material efficiently enough and….if you should happen to clear the table of my books for sale, I may consider ending the seminar a little early?
Enjoy your lunch.
(This article is copyrighted (c) 2009 by Steve Becker, LCSW.)
written by Steve Becker, LCSW • Permalink •
keeping_faith says:
Matt,
That’s a great point……When I think of all the times he was “set off” by something, it usually had to do with ME. I remember him telling me that I was selfish because I could not go to NY to his daughter’s jr college graduation because I did not want to leave my kids at home during the week because of school and they don’t like staying with their father. He texted me and left nasty messages the whole way there and back. I think I was supposed to be there to piss off the x wife. Apparently she told him he was not allowed to bring me.
When you can’t be used for something you are truly USELESS and they have no problem letting us know that.
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Elizabeth Conley says:
“When they realize it’s no longer about “Me” (themselves) but about “you” all hell breaks lose because you’ve changed the dynamic and they realize that you’re cutting the supply off.”
Oh yeah! My son had just been diagnosed with a rare, serious medical condition, and I was working my tail off to learn his treatment options and find the right specialists. All the S could think about was that “service” was seriously declining! All he would talk about was what he wanted me to do for him next.
When I proved preoccupied, he really blew sky high. the weeks that followed unveiled an unbelievably over the top emotional abuse and smear campaign.
When I broke contact I was cold as ice, because I had no emotion to spare for the S. All I cared about was my husband and my kids. He and our “church” were the last thing I cared about. They were dysfunctional, or they’d have shown some shred of compassion for us or concern for our son’s well being. None of that was forthcoming, so it was pretty easy to cut them off. 1 Sychopath and a dozon or so dupes gone from my life. That really lightened my load!
Sociopaths: they just don’t get the whole “humanity thing”.
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Jim in Indiana USA says:
OK…the first time the mask really slipped…I had read Dr. Laura Schlessinger’s “The Proper Care & Feeding of Husbands”, unbeknownst to the ex-tox, and I still didn’t have a clue about personality disorders. In hindsight, the devaluing had begun.
We were alone in the car, with three daughters traveling separately in their car, on a six hour trip. She had begun to use those opportunities to fill me in on my shortcomings.
It was a pretty day…out of the blue I heard: “You know, Jim, you’ve got a lot of problems.” I chuckled and said: “I know.”
The “demon” appeared and nearly came across the car at me…”WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT?” Well, I said, I’m a man….we’re pretty simple. I’m driving, looking at the birds and sky, and that’s about all my male brain circuitry can handle. I can’t do that AND figure out what everybody else is thinking, what’s wrong with them, and how I can manipulate them into doing what I want….and I recently read a book about that…and I have a lot of company in that situation.”
Her: “WHAT BOOK?” I told her the title and author, and she was quiet for a while….and acted pretty strangely for the duration. When we got home…she said: “WHERE’S THAT BOOK?” I gave it to her, she read about 10 oages, threw it down, and never asked for it again.
Took a few more years, but it was all downhill from there….and eventually the mask was gone completely when she dealt with me….in front of others, it was in place….wierd.
Yeah, I know, feminists don’t like the book title, or the author, but in a way it was the beginning of the journey to understanding for me….Oh, well….
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OxDrover says:
MATT:
“donor fatigue” RIGHT ON!!!
Boy was I ever there! When I realized I could no longer give and give and give and do nothing to take care of myself, I was “donor fatigued” to the max, I started to quit “doing for” my egg donor (who could have done for herself or hired someone to do for her easily enough) she got her panties in her crack, and ditto the P-son—-and that was when the smear campaign started and the overt attacks! LOL
I even BEGGED them both to let me take care of ME! On my knees literally begging the egg donor to let me take care of my own business (I had already lost to the tune of about $50K because of taking care of her and not myself) but she was having none of it. I send pleading letters to P-son asking for him to quit making this demand and that demand for my time and LIMITED ENERGY, but nope—no compassion for me at all.
DONOR FATIGUE! Yep, I suspect we have ALL had that! I like that term and I will keep it in the forefront of my brain. No more DONOR FATIGUE for me! Me FIRST, then if I have energy left, I’ll donate to you, but it will never be a one-sided donation again!
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Midnight_Reflection says:
My ex-S, in his laundry list of martyrdom letter, actually had the nerve to list the time he spent in the emergency room with me after I was in a car accident. I was strapped to a back board for three hours, couldn’t move, was cold, hungry, and miserable, but he suffered because he gave up three hours of his evening to sit around in the ER with me.
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OxDrover says:
What a martyr he was Midnight—you really lost a great one there! NOT!
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Midnight_Reflection says:
I know, what was I thinking, lol.
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Matt says:
Midnight_Reflection:
Went through the same drill myself. I stepped off a curb and ruptured my achilles’ tendon. Because I couldn’t reach him on his mobile I got myself to the restaurant where we were supposed to meet — before I asked him to take me to the hospital.
So, there I am, a plaster cast up to my thigh, it’s 3AM and I’m waiting for someone to bring me crutches. He couldn’t be bothered getting off his ass to go to the nursing desk to see about those crutches. No, I”m the one who hopped on one foot across the emergency room.
Two nights later I had surgery to repair the tendon. The doctor told me I needed somebody there that first night. To say I was making the imposition of the century is an understatement.
Oh, yeah, you can be sure I was reminded about every moment Florence Nightingale came to my rescue. And I also paid dearly for every one of those moments, too.
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penelope says:
Matt,
That reminds me (a little) of my mom. She hated doing the dishes, and demanded that we all stick to a rigid schedule of each person doing the dishes on his own night. When my sister was seven she broke her toe, but Mom made her stand there by the sink with her crutches and wash dishes anyway.
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Matt says:
penelope:
Parents should be nice to their kids. After all, we’re the ones who get to choose the nursing home in the end. As well as the end.
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hopeful says:
Hummingbird 1418: Hi. Your comment peaked my interest because my guy read news articles and loved watching the news but he never read any books at all. Sometimes I’ve wondered about that. He told me that he had never read a book in his entire life. Funny. What makes you ask this?
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alohatraveler says:
Great illustration of the disordered mind. Loved it!
Is it me or does anyone else think that “Coach” on Survivor this season is an Narcissist?
Just wondering.
I thought that older guy (wedding photographer) was a little off too.
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shabbychic2 says:
HB 1418: The N that I was with for 14 years never read a book. I thought it was because he was stupid. Ha
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SocioFree says:
Hummingbird1418,
I so relate to the sociopath NOT reading books – he would be so into the news, he would however not be able to sit still for a long time and read, or even express an interest in it.
Midnight_Reflection,
To your comment about “My ex had the nerve to list the time he spent with me in ER – saying he suffered because he gave up 3 hours of his time to sit in ER with me”. That is so RIDICULOUS, and representative of him. He hated giving up time to be interested in ME – it was a BIG source of frustration.
Other comments fropm other bloggers today and yesterday that have struck HOME:
- they have a dysfunctional survival system
- vulnerability and dependency make for good prey
- they stir up pity and empathy in us for their own amusement
- they are deviant indivuduals who treat others as objects
- they make an artform of lying convinglyly and lying audaciously
- they have eternally INTRIGUING personalities
- they have srious grandiosity issues, are masqueraders
- there is no rhyme or reason for what they do
- there is no hope they can bwe domesticated and rendered non toxic
- No Contact = No Chaos
- all they can feel is rage,anger and frustration they cannot have you
- they pretend to have empathy – they have none
- common links of personality traits are overwhelming
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Wini says:
Hummingbird1418: My EX told me that he had dyslexia. I wonder if this condition is within the majority of them?
My cousin’s son has dyslexia too and has never had a “normal life” … meaning quiet and stable, it’s always been clouded with drinking and drugs and acting out in the work environment. Now they (his sister and his mom) found out a few years back that he is supposedly bi-polar? My uncle who passed away a few months back … was his grandfather. Both my uncle and my aunt spoiled this kid rotten (he was the first grandchild) when he was young. I never saw anyone get whatever they wanted, whenever they wanted, any time they wanted it… and doted on. The sun rose and set on this kid … every breath he took. Then as he aged and started getting into trouble … everyone started giving this kid … tough love lessons. Daaaaaaaaaa?
Anyway, I remember my sister asking me a few years back to take him into my home as a roommate. I said, what are you crazy … if you are so concerned about his well being, let him sleep in your spare room. I will not put up with drugs and drink. Period.
My Uncle and Aunt made this kid into a monster at an early age and everyone is wondering what is wrong with him today?
Hey, maybe I should tell my cousin (who’s a shrink by the way) to blog on here? Maybe she’ll learn something.
Peace. I’m shaking my head now because this kid was conditioned to become a monster.
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alohatraveler says:
Shabby & Hummingbird…
Ahhh … books. Bad Man wanted to have “book club” between the two of us. All the books he wanted to read were about sex of course.. and how I could meet his needs better… naturally.
And whenever I loaned him a book, he always said he read it and had mastered it… whatever “it” was. Somehow, I just knew he hadn’t cracked it.
Once,. he loaned me a book that another woman had loaned him. It was obvious this book was special to her by the ntoes in it… the lack of boundaries.. so FREEING!
Heck, you can do ANYTHING without them!
(and believe me… loaning books was no biggie compared to the other fun things you can do when you don’t give a crap about boundaries.!
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Wini says:
Is anyone noticing the similarity between Bernard Madoff and Ken Lay? Yes, Ken Lay the CEO and chairman of Enron. Guilty, guilty, guilty and both men hid their assets in their wives names. What did Ken Lay do when they found him guilty … he committed suicide so his wife could keep all the money. Now Madoff’s lawers are appealing a judge’s decision to revoke his $10 million dollar bail … to allow him to go home until his sentencing June 16, 2009.
Didn’t we see this movie already … Madoff will take the same way out … commit suicide so his wife and family get to keep the money.
I’m shaking my head now.
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shabbychic2 says:
Wow, I didn’t even think about Ken Lay with everything that’s been going on, but you are so right on!
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Wini says:
Shabbychic2: Look what he did. He pleads guilty so there is no trial … so the attorney’s can’t cross examine everyone involved in this … this protects all the banks big shots, all the high roller investment folks … now his attorneys want to get him out on bail … so he can commit suicide and save his family from poverty row … along with all the cronies that played along with this scam.
It’s incredibly EVIL … and all that goes along with this.
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shabbychic2 says:
Wini: I heard that Madoff’s wife was his bookkeeper, so she had to know what was going on, I wonder how she will get out of this, and they have personal assets worth $823 million!!! The whole thing is so unbelievable, going on right under the nose of the SEC. What a joke. I can’t even believe they would consider letting him out on bail!! Yes, all the bank big shots, etc are protected. My head is spinning.
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Wini says:
Shabbychic2: The SEC officers are green as Kermit the frog. There are no old timers (seasoned professionals) in that agency … all long ago retired.
Hey, maybe we all went into the wrong profession … we should have become bookkeepers (LOL).
Peace.
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Betty says:
Steve! Brilliant! Monty Python would be proud. I’ve laughed so hard I had to break from reading so I didn’t do myself an injury! And, of course, learned so much. Well worth sore ribs.
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Eye_Of_The_Storm says:
The link below provides additional discussion by an expert on narcissism, Linda Martinez-Lewi, PH.D. It supplements Steve’s fine article and will help increase our awareness of the differences between narcissism and sociopathy.
Dr. Martinez-Lewi’s web site has many other helpful articles. I highly recommend her book as well. It’s loaded with insights and great info.
http://thenarcissistinyourlife.....tions.html
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jofary says:
I loved this article so much I printed it up and put it up on my fridge! I lived these kinds of conversations daily with both my ex-N/P’s so it’s wonderful to be able to poke fun at the insanity. Nobody who hasn’t been there can understand.
As for the books: neither of mine read books, either – just the news. In fact, my first N/P loudly asserted that fiction was ridiculous and a waste of time. He liked to watch ER when it first came out but always, always wished the writers would keep the “emotional” stuff out of it because “it ruined the show.” Stupid me – I was young and didn’t understand just what that meant.
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melanie says:
a sociopath/sex predator addict who refuses to give sex to his own ‘girlfriend’ so to say…or victim….but will hit on any creature that breathes and is possibly molesting the gf’s cats…or has shown lots of sexual interest in the pets and makes the girl suffer for any form of ‘sex’…has anyone heard of a sociopath doing this….ok i need help because im dealing with a sociopath who refuses any form of sex/intimacy sleeping together any element of a relationship is gone….and in order to get those things I have to comply with the sociopaths requests and still don’t get them…he lives with me and it’s literally no contact…no touching no kissing nothing…no sleeping together…days with no contact and in order for me to have ‘contact’ with him I have to play this sick horrific game of asking, begging, asking getting rejected, asking…getting yelled at degraded called names…all for asking for a hug..or some physical contact….then it goes on and on…and then he asks me to wear certain thigns or dress a certain way, showr, shave, do this or that…just to get a hug or any form of affection…has anyone heard of this knid of horror before…being the victim of it it is beyond torture….the person is also physically abusive, just abusive in general…cheating having sex with everyone except his ‘gf’ into men def bisexual hits on anything aruond…will do anything….but makes his ‘gf’ jump thru hoops and suffer for any form of anything… if we ever go out anywhere..he is staring men up and down left and right, breathes heavy, makes moves on waiters…ive never witnessed anything like it in my life…or on women, men anyone anything….pets animals,
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Matt says:
melanie:
I can’t speak to the sexual interest in pets, although my skin used to crawl when he was around young kids
However, gay or straight, the sexual starvation, abuse, etc is par for the course. I wrote a post, December 2008 entitled “Criminal Defense Attorney Falls For Sociopath” which describes a lot of what you’re going through. The sex started off gangbusters. Around New Year’s going into 2008 he started starving me sexually.
I now see, in retrospect that this was his means of control to get me to open my wallet up all the way so he could bleed me financially. Kissing him was like kissing a cold flounder. In bed he was so uninvolved I may as well been screwing a knothole in a fence.
But, stupid me kept hoping to win back that fabulous man and great lover. However, the only time he put out was when he wanted something from me. By the end, it was so transparent that when I did get him in the sack, it was basically a revenge fuck on my part.
My therapist says, and I agree that the lack of sex was indicative of him cheating on me. That I have no doubts of. Hell, friends of mine saw him out on the town hustling tricks.
Based on my take of your situation, you are in the same situtation I was — and most of us on this site were. It’s all about control with these creatures. He knows you are sexually starved and that is his way of controlling you. The fact that he can drive you to the point that you’re willing to debase yourself only reinforces his control. As for him checking out everybody he crosses paths with — that’s just par for the course. He knows it drives you crazy, so he now has even more control over you. And I can guaranty that no matter what you do, he ups the ante every time.
The sad realization is, only you can decide when you’re done being the victim. I know how hard that is. By the time I drove him out of my life, last November, I was ready to kill myself. That said, you’re in the right place for healing and help.
You may want to get your hands on three books which helped me immeasurably — “Without Conscience” by Robert Hare, “The Sociopath Next Door” by Martha Stout and “The Betrayal Bond” by Patrick Carnes. All 3 will help you to start understanding what you are dealing with and that you are not crazy. Also, I have never read it, but a lot of people on this site swear by “Women Who Love Sociopaths.” Knowledge is power when it comes to finally deciding you’ve had enough and need to get this subhuman creature out of your life.
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LouiseRosen says:
Steve,
Wow! The red flags and up and flying! I laughed and then realized I used to tippy-toe around that kind of behavior, and I know folks who still do. Problem is my generation was inundated with books and articles about how to handle ‘difficult people.’ Since then I’ve learned, you don’t handle them, you walk.
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AmazingGrace says:
Melanie,
Your post made my skin crawl. I am so sorry you have to live like this. I never lived with my N. The writing is on the wall. He treats you like a puppet and N. supply. Is he freeloading or paying for living expenses? My guess is, freeloading. I would say you are a victim not a girlfriend. No one deserves to be abused. This is not Love or healthy. Aren’t people afraid of disease? In my case I got pregnant.
I remember reading about somatic sociopaths/narcissist. Try google.
I think that’s, “Women Who Love Psychopaths” .com -also a great website by the same name. And, saferelationships.com they also have a magazine. Another one is, abusenoexcuse.com
I read, they don’t read books because they have no empathy. So they only read words and don’t understand the feeling in the context or between the lines.
Me, me, me, me, me the next broadway play. Brilliant
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shabbychic2 says:
Melanie: I urge you to go get help immediately. If I remember correctly you posted something similar to this about a month ago and I am distressed that you are still in the situation. Do you have anyone else you can move in with? Or go to a woman’s shelter? I am very concerned for you.
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Stargazer says:
Melanie,
It is upsetting to hear how this guy treats you, and being an animal person, unbearable to hear that he is abusing innoncent cats who have no choice where to live. Please get yourself and your animals away from him. You will not be able to start healing until you get him out of your life. Sounds like he is controlling you. Only you can decide not to live like that or subject your cats to abuse. Cats are very sensitive to people’s energy. Even if he doesn’t touch them, they will react to the stress in the house.
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learnthelesson says:
Dear Melanie,
You dont seem to pose any questions except if any of us have ever experienced someone like your “partner”or know of any Sociopaths who behave the way your “partner” does.
From reading your post, you seem to still be “involved” with this ill person, and you seem to be confused as to why he is not having sex with you, but with bascially anything and everything around him.
You said “ok i need help because im dealing with a sociopath who refuses any form of sex/intimacy sleeping together any element of a relationship is gone….and in order to get those things I have to comply with the sociopaths requests and still don’t get them…he lives with me and it’s literally no contact…
You didnt say “I need help because theres a Sociopath in my life” you said “I need help because the Sociopath in my life wont have sex with me”.
Melanie, since you know what a Sociopath is, and you know that they cant love, or be caring, or show emotion or compassion, you must start to realize that WHILE THE REASONS HE IS NOT INTIMATE WITH YOU HAS NOTHING…NOTHING…NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU – HE IS NOT WELL, HE IS NOT HEALTHY….BUT THE REASON HE IS CONTINUING TO DO THIS TO YOU – IS BECAUSE YOU ARE LETTING HIM.
Please think about what you really want for yourself, in your life. What you deserve and the way you would like to and deserve to be treated. Then think about the person you are with, what his choices are where you are concerned (and by the way, they will be his choices with any person in your place – he will do the SAME thing with and to someone else).. but for now… youre staying, youre there, youre convenient for him… I encourage you to think about what you want in your life.
Nobody deserves what you are being subjected to. There is opportunity for a better life and relationship for you, if you want it. In the meantime please protect yourself. Please know you dont have to chase after the affection and attention of a really sick person who CHOOSES not to care about you or love you – because he will NEVER BE ABLE TO.
My prayers are with you, that you begin to sort out whats important to you, Melanie, your life, your happiness and your love for yourself. Please protect yourself… youre the only one who can. God Bless
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kindheart48 says:
hey guys, trying to keep up with the different forums. When i first met my s i rem calling his ex who was 20 years younger and her telling me that i might as well wear a chastity belt and that went right over my head, i was trying at that time to fig out if i was crazy or if it was him. Fast forward 6 years and 5 years of pretend sex, no penetration and im such a loyal fool that i accepted things for what they were. He on the other hand has picked up bottom of the barrel women and im left thinking what is wrong with me. When my ex husband left i remember him saying you are beautiful, sexy, guys will knock the door down , be choosy. And this is what i went and found and still tonight im left hurt over how cheap he was with me and being dumped for every trashy woman he can get his mitts on. I don’t want to sound like a braggart but im a very attractive woman , but this experience with this type has left me feeling …………sorry im trying to find the right words guys…………in adequate is all i can come up with . If you saw me and then you put him next to me you wouldn’t beleive it. Hes pasty white , scrawny , tatooed (ball point pen old swasticas) and grey hair, it doesn’t even make sense but they can do such a number on your self esteem i don’t think Brad Pitt could make me beleive i m attractive. He is the only man who has ever tried to make me feel unatttractive and not measure up. The animal thing is sickening but nothing is unfathonable when it comes to them. love kindheart
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OxDrover says:
DEar Melanie,
Yes, I have heard of psychopaths/sociopaths doing this. THEY ENJOY torturing and humiliating you…every time you beg and he refuses or humiliates you HE “GETS OFF” by seeing you degraded.
Staying with this person will be a continual trail of tears and degredation. You cannot “make” him do anything, he is ALREADY getting what he wants, and that is your pain and humiliation. The only way ONLY WAY you can stop this treadmill of pain is to GET AWAY FROM HIM AND STAY AWAY FROM HIM. Then you have CONTROL over yourself. You can stop him doing this to you. By staying, you are ALLOWING him HIS PLEASURE, which is to debase you.
I am glad you came here to lovefraud. KNOWLEDGE=POWER and you can learn here and take back your power, the power for him to hurt and humiliate you. (((hugs))))
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Is opn says:
melanie: Re: a sociopath/sex predator addict,
he lives with me
Melanie, First, get yourself out of the house safely, away from this thing that lives with you. Pack an emergency bag with things you will need, take the cats and any other animals with you, stay with friends, family, or a shelter. Let them know what is going on!
Once you are out and safely away from him, get a restraining order on him to keep him away from you, and have him removed from your home with the local police there for your protection.
Get this creature out of your home and out of your life. There is no need to say anything to him before you leave or ever again!!! Leave and get a restraining order.
This creature is so very sick and is very twisted and dangerous!
There is alot of support here to help you get through this.
Praying for you, leave this situation, for you!!!!
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Is opn says:
Melanie: Just a deep concern for you,
Is this one a possible registered sex offender???
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kindheart48 says:
melanie, i hope you get get yourself out of that situation and it’s a wakeup call for me as i know it is hard to accept what is right before your eyes as it goes against anyones beleif of normal decency. There is not limit to how twisted these types are and it is so very disturbing and hard to comprehend. Denial is the only option when you don’t want to see the reality and honey trust me i know as i’ve been in denial myself. I can tell you to leave but you have to see for yourself but you can’t while you are still in it so all the advise to get out is warranted . You need to be out of the situation to see it for what it is and then our minds still don’t want to admit it so it’s a battle but you can do it. Im not far ahead of you and i want you to tag along with me as i know all about the degradation. Come along with the rest of us and we will help you all along the way. If you are like me , you confuse pity and love and Lord knows they are pitiful but that isn’t going to help us. my s hates animals but i wouldn’t put anything past him as i’ve seen how he finds things fascinating that decent people would find appalling. But when you are with them you fall back into the magical thinking and you can’t see the forest for the trees. I never lived with mine and know that is the only reason i have my sanity intact(debatable at times) but i’ve done the dance so many times that i know if i don’t stay the hell away from him i will be in denial again and i want to live in reality. I’ve wasted 6 years of my life denying what he is and what i want and who i am and life is too precious. I hope you can muster up the courage and just do it. Easy i know to say get out and don’t look back , wishful thinking but you can do it in baby steps. First you have to remove yourself from the situation. Get people involved so you have lots of support and please keep posting as i’ve said im just a baby step ahead of you and i already am feeling better. love kindheart
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April says:
Steve, I enjoyed reading your article. I have been researching information regarding sociopaths and narcissists since I exited a relationship that was with a probable n/s to help me through the trauma. In your article you mentioned ‘regardless of his patent guilt’. I was of the belief that sociopaths do not feel guilt, could this please be clarified as it is important for me to know what I was dealing with. Perhaps I have misinterpreted what you intended????
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Steve Becker, LCSW says:
April, sorry for the confusion. Feeling genuine, mature guilt for their interpersonal transgressions isn’t the sociopath’s style, to say the least. Lack of guilt over their exploitive behaviors, on the other hand, is highly characteristic of the sociopath.
I hope this clarifies? If not, I’ll try again! Thanks!
Steve
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Kathleen Hawk says:
Steve, I hope you’re planning to do this on our “open mike” stage at Oxy’s Towanda Cafe at the first annual convention. This is better than “Waiting for Godot.”
I can see you laughing your head off while you were writing it. It made me want to be a narcissist, because I’ve always wanted to be that funny.
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Steve Becker, LCSW says:
Kathleen, thanks for the incredibly kind feedback. I’m not sure what convention you’re referring to, but i can assure you i’d have to get pretty drunk to pull that off. i’m really flattered you enjoyed it…
and, trust me when i say this, your own posts are tremendous….one after another!
Steve
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Kathleen Hawk says:
Beyond enjoyed it. Was totally in awe of the your stamina in pulling off one perfect line after another. I’ve tried to write sociopaths into stories and plays, and it exhausts me to be them. That level of self-absorption actually takes a lot of effort. It’s no wonder they don’t have any energy left to imagine how we feel.
You know, I have really sharp memories of mine virtually collapsing with exhaustion after he’d pulled off a virtuoso effort in convincing me that he really cared about me, that we were really a fabulous couple, that he could really be everything I ever wanted, all in order to get me to sign up to another self-serving deal that I’d never have considered if I wasn’t dazzled and in a post-orgasmic daze.
And that was it. I couldn’t expect anything further out of him, except reasons why he couldn’t possibly be involved with me, until he was priming me for the next one.
I’m laughing as I write this. It wasn’t funny at the time, but now… well, he was so transparent. And I actually knew the pattern, could see through him, but I was so thrilled by the romantic performance and all the “promisory” behavior, that all I wanted to remember was how marvelous he could be and all I wanted to do was figure out how to get that guy back.
Someday, perhaps, you’ll get in another one of these moods (I actually imagine you giggling over your keyboard; do men giggle? as you’re writing this stuff), and do a piece about the inner arguments that go on in the mind’s of the co-sociopath.
“Are you out of your frakking mind?”
“No, no, you can stop worrying. It’s going to come out okay. I got more concessions this time, I did. He’s really a good guy. Wasn’t he cool last week? Didn’t he make perfect sense?”
“Are you out of your frakking mind?”
You could do this. We could do it together on the open mike stage. I could play Little Mary Sunshine, all fluttery eyelashes and lacy white socks and willful naivete. You could wear a top hot and a Groucho Marx mustache and stalk around making sarcastic comments about what an idiot I am.
Oh stop it, Kathy. Yes, Steve, I love your piece and was inspired by it. And I hope if that convention ever occurs, I can ply you with enough liquor to get you up on that stage.
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Jen2008 says:
“And I hope if that convention ever occurs, I can ply you with enough liquor to get you up on that stage.”
Kathleen, I would like to offer up my assistance to help you in plying Steve with liquor.
That is one performance I definitely would not want to miss.
I saw your post a little earlier where you told someone to write you and referred them to the authors page. I had never looked at LoveFraud’s authors page until today. I already knew what Donna and Dr. Leedom looked like, but when I visited the authors page none of you other guys and women looked at all like the image I had of you in my mind. It would be interesting to have a LoveFraud convention and put a name with all the bloggers’ faces, and to see how closely the “real” person matches the image in our mind of the “internet” person.
And I had no idea that Steve is actually a writer, too, who has had short stories published. And I agree, Kathleen, he is quite good. I especially like his gift for authentic sounding dialogue.
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Steve Becker, LCSW says:
Kathleen and Jen…
Just the idea of getting plied with liquor sounds more appealing to me than I know it should. Again, mucho thanks for your amazingly generous feedback….Kathleen, on the looks of it, you might want to write that piece you suggested i write? sounds like you’ve got some good ideas and material already! i think i’ll leave the performing part to someone else…but i still like the sound of getting plied with liquor.
And Jen, I’m almost afraid to ask what images you had in mind of us (prior to checking the photos?). Maybe that’s a question better left unanswered?
Steve!
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learnthelesson says:
Thats it! As soon as Oxy returns…the date time and place will be determined!
Not going to miss Kathy dressed as little mary sunshine w/Steve in his top hot as Groucho Marks stumbling all over the stage!!
And then Kathy has a duet with oxy in a tutu and waders…
And Henrys Jokes (clean before 9pm) dirty after (9pm)
And the Girls and all our sociopath songs…
And the guys in kilts ….
OXY, IM SENDING YOU MY LAPTOP SO YOU CAN FIND OUT WHAT STEVE’S FAVORITE DRINK IS!!!!
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Matt says:
learnedthelesson:
You can count on Rune and I to bring a good single malt scotch (any of my favorite boys, the “Glens”) or a good Irish whisky (Llagavulin or Llaphroig).
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Stargazer says:
I’m just popping in here to say that I’m sick and tired of this thread being about somebody else! I think it should be about me!!!!! Is that so selfish???? lol
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Jen2008 says:
Star, Ask and ye shall receive:
Steve, My image of you was with dark hair, beard, wire rimmed glasses, very intellectual looking – sort of a much better looking image of Abe Lincoln.
Matt – Because I like the show “Will and Grace” and I know Matt is both gay and a lawyer, my image of him is always the image of Will on Will and Grace.
Oxy – I always picture her as dressed in jeans, flannel shirt, long gray braid hanging down her back, cowboy boots, and sometimes with a shotgun slung over her shoulder.
STAR, STAR, STAR – My image of Star is with long flowing hair, long flowing skirt, an exotic shirt that has slipped off one of her shoulders, dangling earrings, a lovely display of crystals laying about her place, AND an exotic snake sometimes drapped around her neck while she sits typing away.
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Kathleen Hawk says:
Jen,
I want to be Star. I don’t know how to you pictured me, but could please trade?
Kathy
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lostinfear says:
Hello. This website seems to be full of wonderful insite and I have really read into everything that I can so far.
I need help though. I am involved with someone I need to leave and although he lives in another state I fear him as if he lives next door. I have tried to leave him plenty of times and I always get the threats and the emotional abuse, not to mention the guilt he plays. He tells me wants to just take some pills and go to sleep and not wake up, his health isnt good, his blood pressure is bad bc of our distance (emotional distance) and so on. The threats are usually he is going to kill me or just recently it was me and all those I love need to beware becuase I just made an enemy. He is very emotionally abusive with making fun of anything and everything I have ever told him. He plays me and other women along. I have found out about a few of them and have had a constant going back n forth with one (he plays her and I back n forth against each other badly) I am beginning to think he really likes that drama, but he acts as if he wants only me. I am afraid of the no contact bc I feel as though I need a reason like a new fight to just walk away and leave. I feel like then there is an excuse and I can be released w/o him causing drama. (i know that must sound far fetched and probably is.) He is very controlling with his anger, but at the same time when he is visiting things seem great. He does so much for me…….then he leaves and the drama again begins.
Help….
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Jen2008 says:
Kathleen, No you may not trade with Star!!! My image of you is of a redhead with hair swept back from the foreward (that really pretty and sexy deep shade of red) that stops just below the shoulders , and you are in an elegant business suit. But not a stuffy business suit, but more of a sexy one with a bit of camosole showing at the top of your blouse and a skirt that hits a few inches above the knee, and paired with great looking heels. I also think of you as really sophisticated, but also with a spitfire personality.
It occurs to me that based on my images of Star and Kathleen, that perhaps I should try my hand at writing soft erotica–well, once I master the English language a bit better. lol lol lol lol
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